Corporation Tax (Northern Ireland) Bill

Sammy Wilson Excerpts

Tuesday 27th January 2015 Commons Chamber

[Sammy Wilson (East Antrim) (DUP)]

I trust that I will do what the shadow Secretary of State did and give a balanced view, from a Northern Ireland perspective, of where we see the Bill taking the Northern Ireland economy and the impact that it will have on the economy.

It would be churlish if we did not acknowledge that considerable work has gone into the proposal. It has taken many years, and as the right hon. Member for North Shropshire (Mr Paterson) indicated, a large number of people have been involved in making the case for the devolution and then doing what was necessary to bring it about.

I pay tribute to the right hon. Gentleman for the role that he has played in this change, although I would point out that the cudgels were first taken up by the leader of my party, who was then Finance Minister in Northern Ireland and was convinced that the decision made after the Varney report was published was incorrect. He started the ball rolling on this issue in Northern Ireland. Many businesses also supported the campaign.

I also pay tribute to the work done by the Financial Secretary and his officials during the time that I was the Finance Minister in Northern Ireland. I know that sometimes we made progress and then were knocked back a bit, and it was frustrating at times. But many of the issues addressed during those discussions were essential if the issue was not to fall foul of European legislation or decisions by the European Court. Much of that groundwork was very necessary.

One of the things that drives this change is the desire in Northern Ireland to transform our economy. Our region has not always been in the economic doldrums. In fact, for a long time during the 20th century, Northern Ireland was a driver in the UK economy. We had world-leading, world-renowned industries that drove a healthy economy. Many of those industries declined because of changes in world demand, distribution patterns and global trends, which also coincided with the start of the troubles. As a result, major industries declined and Northern Ireland was an unattractive place for new private sector companies, resulting in an unhealthy increasing dependence on the public sector.

One of the aims of the Northern Ireland Executive is to rebalance the economy as well as to grow it. To do that we need the right economic levers, but—as the Secretary of State said and the shadow Secretary of State alluded to—there is no point having those levers in our hands if the right conditions do not exist. I agree with the Government—although some frustration is felt back home on this point—that it was right for them to insist that the Executive have a budget that showed the tax change was sustainable and that we could absorb its impact. It was right that we should not pay money annually to the Treasury because we had not concluded the welfare reforms, because that was of course a drain on the resources that were available to the Executive.

The conditions that were laid down were correct and the Executive has now proposed a budget, although it has not been supported by all the parties. Some parties, even though they are in government and their Departments would benefit from the savings in the budget, have taken an irresponsible attitude. They think they can benefit from the budget and at the same time distance themselves from the more difficult aspects of it—

[Naomi Long]

And you would never have done that.

[Sammy Wilson]

I seem to have hit a sore spot or at least the tender parts of the body politic among those parties that have engaged in such activity.

We have to get the welfare reform proposals through the Executive, but agreement has been reached and I hope that, as this Bill makes progress, we will also see the passage of the welfare reforms in Northern Ireland, albeit with changes—mostly secured by my party—to the Welfare Reform Bill that will make it less draconian. Indeed, I think that some of the changes in the Welfare Reform Bill will have to be revisited by this Parliament at some stage.

[Ms Ritchie]

Will the hon. Gentleman give way?

[Sammy Wilson]

I will, because I know that the hon. Lady is feeling sore from some of my remarks.

[Ms Ritchie]

I assure the hon. Gentleman that I am not feeling sore in any way. He is avoiding the reality to suit a certain political situation. He used to be a sceptic about corporation tax, but he has had a damascene conversion. Notwithstanding that, can he tell us what measures will be introduced to achieve the benefits of welfare reform for the people of Northern Ireland?

[Sammy Wilson]

If the hon. Lady is not feeling sore from some of my remarks, she is more brazen than I thought she was—[Laughter.] As she has not yet heard the rest of my speech, she does not know what I am going to say or the balanced arguments that I am going to make about corporation tax.

Everyone who has spoken so far has suggested that there is widespread support for the Bill in Northern Ireland. That is, of course, not true. The Green party opposes it, but then that party opposes economic growth apparently, according to its latest manifesto. I can understand, therefore, why it would not want to see any measures that would encourage economic growth in Northern Ireland. I do not know how the Green party expects us to tackle our unemployment or standard of living problems with no economic growth, but in any event it opposes the Bill.

The other opponents of the Bill are the trade unions, which are organising a one-day strike against it and other measures some time in March. At the same time as they complain about youth unemployment and the low-wage economy, they oppose a measure that has the potential to address all of those issues and want to strike against it. I do not understand their logic.

The only other party that opposes the measure is the traditional Unionist voice, but I think that is because we support it. That seems to be the rationale for anything it does.

All parties in this House are agreed that tax incentives can be beneficial in stimulating business growth. Some may disagree about the actual form the tax incentive should take or the degree to which it should be used, but there is an undeniable correlation between such incentives—be they small business rates relief, corporation tax reductions or oil industry taxes—and growth. Shareholders are attracted to putting money into businesses, which in turn have more profits to plough back into investment. Tax incentives can also give businesses a competitive edge over those in other countries. That is the rationale behind the Bill and no one can deny that it will have an effect.

In Northern Ireland there is an additional reason to make the change in that we share a land boundary with a country that has had a lower corporation tax rate. Some people say that this will not have a beneficial effect, but it is significant that, even when the Government of the Irish Republic were having to slash public expenditure and incur the wrath of the population by reducing wages in the public sector, putting up taxes, introducing new charges for water and so on, the one area for which they were fiscally responsible and did not make any changes was corporation tax. They had obviously judged that when it came to fighting for business, corporation tax—albeit along with other measures—was a shock and awe tactic they could use to try to attract businesses to the Irish Republic. That is a significant argument.

I have a degree of scepticism about economic modelling. As I am sure the Financial Secretary would tell us, we can put whatever finely tuned assumptions we want into economic models, but they can be upset fairly quickly. In the next 15 years, it is estimated that output in the Northern Ireland economy will grow by 11%, creating about 37,500 jobs. Any economic model must come with a warning that the assumptions on which it is based can change fairly rapidly. However, the estimate has been made using the economic data we have at present: assumptions, past trends, information from other economies and so on. In Northern Ireland, we cannot afford to ignore that estimate, even if it is not totally correct, especially if it will grow the private sector and bring in well-paid, above-average jobs.

We had concerns about a number of issues. We did not want a Bill for people who simply moved their profits to Northern Ireland and did not create jobs. There is no benefit to us in having companies with just a brass plate outside the door, but no substance. I believe the Bill addresses that issue, as much as it can, by indicating that it will benefit trading profits only. In addition, there will be strict investigation by the Treasury of companies who try to move profits. As I understand it, there will be a charge for ensuring that compliance measures are put in place to avoid such scenarios.

If we do that, what about small businesses? Many small businesses, especially in the construction industry, have a substantial amount of work in Great Britain because of the decline in the construction industry. We did not want small businesses to have huge administrative costs imposed on them for differentiating where they made their profits. I welcome the proposal in the Bill that businesses based in Northern Ireland with 75% of their activity and employment there, will be exempt on all their profits. That should cover 99% of small businesses in Northern Ireland so there should not be administrative costs for small businesses.

Oil and gas is excluded from the legislation. I hope that very shortly, despite the endeavours of the Social and Democratic and Labour party Environment Minister, we will have a substantial oil and gas industry that can exploit the shale gas resources that we believe are buried under the ground in Northern Ireland. There may be some who play the populist line and say, “Let’s just keep those resources there. After all, they’re nasty CO₂-producing fossil fuels.” I want them to be exploited for the benefit of the people of Northern Ireland and the United Kingdom. The profits from those companies would not currently be subject to the corporation tax arrangement, but I hope that if and when we develop such an industry, Northern Ireland will benefit from the kinds of promises that have been made to the north-east of England, including a sovereign wealth fund to take in part of the profits from those businesses and plough them back into public expenditure projects. I understand, however, why that has not been included at present.

On financial sector profits, there were two issues. I was not all that supportive of the argument about why those nasty banks, who nearly destroyed our economy, should benefit from reductions in corporation tax, paid for by reductions in the block grant. I understand the emotional rhetoric in that argument, but I am more concerned that the profits of banks and other financial institutions are much more volatile and more easily moved without detection than the profits of manufacturing or other companies. One has only to look at the difference between 2007-08 and 2008-09, when banks’ profits changed from £255 million to £45 million. That kind of volatility in tax revenue was a compelling reason why we should not include the profits of financial institutions in the Bill. I am glad that the Government have responded to that.

[Mrs Villiers]

I very much welcome the hon. Gentleman’s remarks. It is important to bear in mind that certain activities relating to banks and financial services can fall within the scope of a new Northern Ireland rate, in no small part because of the election provisions in relation to back-office functions. For example, the kind of work that is currently done in Northern Ireland by Citigroup could fall within a new reduced Northern Ireland rate.

[Sammy Wilson]

That was exactly the point I was going to make. Having said that there are exceptions to this, the exemptions are important because one of the fastest-growing sectors in the higher wage end of the Northern Ireland economy has been those back-office financial services jobs. We would not want to lose the ability to attract them. There is provision in the Bill to allow for that. Whether they are brought as separate or spur companies to the main company, they will nevertheless be subject to the new regime.

There are some dangers. One danger we have heard about time and again—it was alluded to by the shadow Secretary of State—is the potential loss of public sector expenditure. Under the Azores ruling, we will have to pay for whatever the forgone revenue happens to be. That will depend on the rate we eventually set. At maximum, it could be about 3% of the current revenue budget available to Northern Ireland. In the current circumstances, to try to find that immediately would be very difficult, which is one reason why the decision to introduce this will not be implemented until at least 2016-17. That will give the Executive time to plan.

We must remember, however, that the reduction in the block grant and money available for public expenditure in Northern Ireland will be offset by the expansion in other parts of the economy. Yes, that is a gamble, but can we politicians in Northern Ireland sit on our hands and do nothing, knowing that public expenditure is going to tighten, regardless of whether there is a Labour or Conservative Administration, given how heavily reliant we are on public expenditure? That would be wrong. The shadow spokesman wants to know the reason for my alleged conversion. This is one of the issues to weigh in the balance. Can we just drift along, knowing that regardless of which party is in government at Westminster the public sector is going to contract, and make no provision for expanding the private sector?

[Mr Laurence Robertson (Tewkesbury) (Con)]

I agree entirely with the hon. Gentleman. On the reduction in the block grant, however, we do not know what the block grant will be in 2017. It might be higher than expected, in which case perhaps the consequential drop would not be felt. It could also be argued that the recent agreement at Stormont House already mitigates any reduction.

[Sammy Wilson]

Given the comments from the hon. Gentleman’s party and the Labour party, I suspect the grant will not be higher. Furthermore, we still have to deal with our dependence on public sector expenditure. It is being squeezed all the time, and therefore we need to look at rebalancing the economy.

[Naomi Long]

I agree that public finances will continue to be under pressure and that therefore we need to grow the private sector to counterbalance that. Does the hon. Gentleman agree, however, that Northern Ireland’s reliance on the public sector is even worse than the Secretary of State mentioned, because many of the privately owned companies are almost entirely reliant on Government contracts? It is not just about those directly employed in the public sector; it is about the number of private businesses that rely on the public sector for their employment.

[Sammy Wilson]

That is one of the reasons, of course, that some people say the public sector accounts for as much as 62% of employment in Northern Ireland. Some of it is disguised in the way the hon. Lady suggests.

We have to consider whether we can simply sit on our hands. However, there is a second consideration for the Northern Ireland Executive. Yes, there is some risk attached to the policy; all economic policies carry some risk, but in measuring and trying to balance that risk, we have to consider the impact of the policy elsewhere, especially in areas similar to Northern Ireland. I have already mentioned the approach of the Republic of Ireland Government.

As the changes to the rules on accounting and disclosure come forward, I know that some of the financial services issues might be addressed, but we have not touched on the ongoing cost of the devolution of corporation tax, which is currently reckoned to be about £300 million. However, as the economy grows, a formula will be imposed in respect of the loss of revenue, and given that there could be a substantial reduction in corporation tax in Northern Ireland, the formula must not be draconian. For example, if it was set at an unrealistic rate, based on the performance of better performing regions or of the UK economy as a whole, the burden could become substantially higher as time goes on. We need clarity on that issue.

The right hon. Member for North Shropshire said that from this day on the Executive should be proceeding with this matter, but we cannot do so because the Bill has not yet been passed. I know he is enthusiastic, but I think his enthusiasm has run away from the reality: the Bill has to pass its stages as normal.

[Mr Paterson]

I said that the Northern Ireland parties should make an announcement now about what they intend to do with the powers once the Bill has passed. If such an announcement were made, in the two years between now and April 2017, local businesses, UK businesses and, above all, foreign business could begin to plan in the knowledge that they would benefit from a much lower rate of tax. The hon. Gentleman is right—we have to pass the Bill, and I am delighted it has the support of the Opposition—but it is vital that, from today, the local parties say what they would do with these powers, on the basis that the Bill will pass before Dissolution.

[Sammy Wilson]

On the last point, given that the ongoing cost is not known yet, there remain some issues to resolve.

There is a challenge, not for politicians, but for the businesses that have campaigned for the devolution of corporation tax. As the shadow Secretary of State said, those businesses have a responsibility not to use their profits simply to pay higher salaries for managers, for shareholders or for vanity projects. Having campaigned for this change, and given its implications for expenditure in Northern Ireland, they have a responsibility to ensure that the additional money that results from forgoing tax revenue is invested in their companies to increase productivity, make them more competitive and create better-paid jobs. Only then will this campaign have been a success.

[Mr Laurence Robertson (Tewkesbury) (Con)]

It is a pleasure to follow the hon. Member for East Antrim (Sammy Wilson), who drew on his experience in the Northern Ireland Assembly to make a very useful speech. I also congratulate the Secretary of State on introducing the Bill, which has taken a good deal of skilful negotiation, and on doing so before the election. It would have been easy to push it back. I think the whole House is grateful to her.

I also pay tribute to my right hon. Friend the Member for North Shropshire (Mr Paterson). I had the pleasure of working with him in opposition when he thought outside the box and came up with this idea. Yes, it had been discussed to some extent, but it had not been fully discussed in this place. At the time, there was opposition, as there always is when somebody comes up with a radical new idea, but he had the foresight, determination and courage to press ahead, and when he became Secretary of State, he made it clear that it was one of the most useful things we could do for Northern Ireland. We are now seeing the benefit of his work.

A few years ago, this proposal was the first thing the Select Committee looked at when we wanted to find something that moved us away from the orange and green issues and the security situation—serious though it was—to look at different ways of helping the people of Northern Ireland. We thought that the economy was one way we could do that. We took evidence from a great many witnesses—businesses, trade unions and very many other people—and eventually came up with a report that recommended the devolution of corporation tax to the Assembly. I should point out that it was not a unanimous decision. Several Committee members had concerns or reservations, a number of which have been addressed by the hon. Member for East Antrim. However, we felt that the benefits would be overwhelming and that we could address the problems that the decision might throw up.

As has been said, Northern Ireland is the only part of the United Kingdom that shares a land border with another country, and that country happens to have corporation tax at a much lower rate. As has been pointed out, southern Ireland—the Republic of Ireland—stuck to that policy through thick and thin. I remember going to see the EU Commissioner when the Select Committee was looking at the issue. He was rather dubious about the Republic of Ireland’s low level of corporation tax and expected that it would have to roll over, give way and increase the rate. However, as I said to him, that might have been okay in the short term, but what would it have done for the Republic of Ireland’s longer term prospects? I am glad that that country won the day.

I recognise—I say this as a Unionist—that there was some concern about setting the rate of corporation tax in Northern Ireland to match that in the Republic, as though that was somehow giving up or compromising on Britishness. It is nothing of the sort. We have a single electricity market across Ireland. Ireland is promoted as one for tourism—I think we could do more on that—and there are experiments with common visa arrangements. All that is sensible. To me, that is not about green or orange; it is not about Britain or a united Ireland. These are sensible measures. Giving the Assembly the ability to cut the rate of corporation tax in Northern Ireland to compete with the south would be a simple and sensible arrangement, and there is a need to do it.

As we have seen from the economic statistics, which have been discussed in the House and repeated many times, Northern Ireland lags behind on many measures when compared with the rest of the United Kingdom. It is doing okay—it is improving and getting there—but it really needs a boost to move it along rather more rapidly. That is why, interestingly, as well as most members of the Committee and most witnesses agreeing with the proposal to devolve responsibility for corporation tax to the Assembly—along with every political party in Northern Ireland, which is rather unusual—the Irish Government agree with it too. I have heard the Taoiseach on more than one occasion say that he thinks it would be a good idea for Northern Ireland to be able to have the same level of corporation tax. He does not see it particularly as a threat; he sees it as a sensible move.

The Committee also found that corporation tax in itself is not necessarily the silver bullet. It is not going to transform the whole economy—other measures are needed, such as improvements in the planning regime and many other areas—but it is a good headline grabber. It will grab the attention of the business world, and that can only be a good thing. For example, just a few weeks ago the Committee travelled to Belfast and had a meeting with Senator Gary Hart, who was over to help with the discussions. We put the point to him, and he said the change would remove one of the reasons for not investing in Northern Ireland, because when people look from afar and see the island of Ireland, where are they going to go? Of course, other factors come into play too, but if corporation tax is 12.5% in the Republic and 20% in Northern Ireland, surely that is a draw towards the Republic of Ireland. He said he would be willing to try to set up a trade delegation from the United States to come to Northern Ireland with a view to exploring the investment opportunities. That has to be a very positive move indeed.

Again looking from afar, it is not just that Northern Ireland shares a land border with the Republic of Ireland that is a compelling reason for making this move. Northern Ireland is also part of an island off an island. If it is exactly the same as the rest of the United Kingdom, what is the benefit of investing in Northern Ireland? We have to ask ourselves that question. What will draw companies to Northern Ireland rather than investing on the mainland? If everything is the same, perhaps they will not do that, but if things are more attractive in Northern Ireland, surely companies and investors will consider their options in the Province. To an extent, it is the same with the United Kingdom, which is one of the very many reasons why I am not for making ourselves exactly the same as the European Union. If we are exactly the same as mainland European countries such as Germany or France, what is the attraction of coming to the United Kingdom and investing here? There has to be a reason for people to come here, and it is up to us to give them that reason.

I want to touch on another point, which is slightly off the issue, but which is important when we consider the extent of the benefit that reducing corporation tax might bring. When we were in the United States on a Select Committee visit about 18 months ago, we discussed this issue—very positively—and a number of others, but one thing that came up time and again was the violent scenes that we see on our television screens and which are flashed across the world. No matter what this place or the Assembly does on tax or any other incentives, it is destroyed in a single night, with a single vision of any violent scenes or paramilitary activity that is flashed across the world. Nothing could drive people away from Northern Ireland in a worse way or more quickly than that. Anybody in a republican organisation or a so-called loyalist organisation who engages in such activity is betraying the people they purport to represent. They really ought to bear that in mind.

There are a number of issues that perhaps need to be looked at in greater detail. I am not making a criticism, but I would ask the Secretary of State whether she has given any thought to how the Bill might be considered during its Committee stage. As I understand it, it will be considered in Committee upstairs. However, there are a number of issues that still need discussion, so it might be an idea to consider holding the Committee stage on the Floor of the House. As we move towards the election, sometimes the Chamber is not as heavily used as it might be at other times. Maybe we could consider discussing these issues in a way that allowed all Members to take part, rather than just a few Members upstairs.

I understand why this change cannot be introduced absolutely straight away, but I am a little concerned that it is being pushed back two years. A lot can happen in two years. However, while we have the full agreement of people in all the political parties in Northern Ireland—on this issue at least, if not on any other—let us take advantage of that. Let us drive this forward as quickly as we can.

[Sammy Wilson]

Does the hon. Gentleman not accept that, first, budgetary planning must be put in place to deal with the payment that will come off the block grant? Secondly, as many firms make investment decisions over a long period, it makes sense to announce the change soon, but for payment to be in two years’ time, because that will reduce the cost to the Northern Ireland Executive, while at the same time attract firms that are thinking about investment now, but which will perhaps not implement it for a couple of years.

[Mr Robertson]

The hon. Gentleman makes a very reasonable point, which I suppose goes back to the point made by my right hon. Friend the Member for North Shropshire, who said we should get on at least with saying what we are likely to do, as that will start the ball rolling.

We also have to be careful not to expect too much of the Assembly when it comes to looking like an efficient decision making machine and getting this matter devolved. As everyone in this House knows, it was not designed for the purpose of being an efficient decision making machine; it was designed to bring people together to bring about peace, and there can be no greater cause than that. That issue has already started to be addressed through the Stormont House agreement; nevertheless, the Assembly is not the most effective machine. It has its problems—there is of course the need for votes on both sides to be in a majority. All that is not how this place works; nor would we get very much passed if we worked in that way. The Assembly was set up in that way for a different purpose, so I do not think too much store should be set by that. We should get on with this proposal in any case.

There are other important matters, including planning. Skills and education are important, too. We must ensure that we have a skilful and well educated work force in Northern Ireland, and then it becomes important for Northern Ireland to retain the people it educates. So many times we see a number of countries training and educating their people well, only to see them attracted to work abroad rather than bring the benefits of their skills and education to their own country. We need a peaceful society in Northern Ireland for that to happen—otherwise we will continue to lose people—and we need to create the sort of prosperity that people want to enjoy. If we can do all that, I think we will ensure that future generations are able to enjoy greater prosperity and greater peace than was available to past generations.