Oral Answers to Questions

Shabana Mahmood Excerpts

Tuesday 3rd June 2025 Commons Chamber

[Marsha De Cordova (Battersea) (Lab)]

19. What steps her Department is taking to support victims of domestic abuse.

[The Lord Chancellor and Secretary of State for Justice (Shabana Mahmood)]

The Government are taking action to support victims of domestic abuse and violence. We are ensuring stronger management of domestic abuse perpetrators through new domestic abuse protection orders and the increased multi-agency management of domestic abusers; that is being expanded to those convicted of coercive and controlling behaviour. In response to the sentencing review published last week, I committed to further protections for victims, including the roll-out of domestic abuse specialist courts and better identification of domestic abuse perpetrators.

[Sarah Green]

My constituent was subject to financial, physical and emotional abuse by her ex. She was also cyber-stalked; her social media accounts were hacked for details of her location, and for information about their children. Despite being granted a non-molestation order and a prohibited steps order, she was unable to compile sufficient evidence of the cyber-stalking to be granted a stalking protection order. Speaking to her, her fear is palpable. What steps is the Secretary of State taking to ensure that victims are supported in compiling the evidence that they need for a stalking protection order?

[Shabana Mahmood]

I am very sorry to hear of the experiences of the hon. Lady’s constituent; it is clearly a horrifying case, and my sympathies are with her. Given that stalking protection orders are relatively new, there is a case for continually examining whether their roll-out is working as intended. They are primarily a Home Office responsibility, but there are amendments to the Crime and Policing Bill, which is going through the House, that are designed to strengthen these orders. If the hon. Lady will write to me, I will ensure that she has a meeting with the relevant Minister to talk through the specifics of the case that she has raised, and the lessons that can be learned as we strengthen these orders for everyone.

[Marsha De Cordova]

In April, the Metropolitan Police Commissioner warned that without additional funding, London will see a sustained increase in violence against women and girls. My right hon. Friend the Secretary of State has been working tirelessly to fix the broken system left by the Conservatives, but if we do not get that support in London, women will go unprotected. Will she commit to working with colleagues in the Home Office and the Treasury to ensure that the Met can keep women safe in my constituency and across London?

[Shabana Mahmood]

Of course, we work closely with colleagues in the Home Office and the Treasury. The Government will shortly publish the outcome of the spending review, but I can assure my hon. Friend that all colleagues across Government are committed to our mission to halve violence against women and girls, for victims not just in London but across the country. I will ensure that we engage with Members across the House on this matter as well.

[Warinder Juss (Wolverhampton West) (Lab)]

3. What steps her Department is taking to help to reduce reoffending by people on probation.

[The Lord Chancellor and Secretary of State for Justice (Shabana Mahmood)]

We inherited a justice system in crisis, with prisons churning out better criminals, not better citizens, and we know that 80% of offenders are reoffenders. Last week, I announced measures to toughen up community punishment, which results in lower reoffending rates than short custodial sentences. We will also increase probation investment to manage offenders in the community safely.

[Warinder Juss]

Will the Lord Chancellor outline the steps being taken to recruit and retain probation officers, and to ensure that they have manageable caseloads and that their morale is improved? What programmes or partnerships are in place to help those on probation to access stable accommodation, and employment, training or education, so that they can go through the rehabilitation process and reduce their chances of reoffending?

[Shabana Mahmood]

We are investing in probation. Funding will increase by £700 million by the final year of the spending review. That is a 45% increase in annual budgets, which will fund further recruitment on top of the 1,300 officers we will recruit this year and the 1,000 officers we recruited in the previous year. That will support our investment in services that rehabilitate offenders and cut crime.

[Mr Richard Holden (Basildon and Billericay) (Con)]

The Lord Chancellor admitted in a recent interview with The Times that her sentencing reforms will create “inevitable tensions” with the Government’s efforts to halve knife crime and rates of violence against women and girls. It sounds like she does not really believe in these reforms, which have been trotted out by David Gauke, the Prisons Minister in the other place and the Prison Reform Trust. Does the Lord Chancellor realise that none of them is elected, and that if this package fails to keep our streets safe and restore the criminal justice system, the country will hold her and this Government to account?

[Shabana Mahmood]

I think the country will hold to account those responsible for the absolute mess that this Government inherited. Nowhere in the right hon. Gentleman’s question did he acknowledge that under the Government of which he was a member and for which he campaigned, prisons were brought to the brink of collapse. These reforms are necessary. This Government will not allow our prisons to run out of places—the one thing everybody agrees we cannot allow to happen. The only reason that is a possibility is because of the Tory party.

[John Milne (Horsham) (LD)]

4. When the Minister of State for Courts and Legal Services plans to meet the hon. Member for Horsham’s constituent Andrew Turner to discuss locked child trust funds.

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[Stuart Anderson (South Shropshire) (Con)]

8. If her Department will take steps to increase sentences for high street crime.

[The Lord Chancellor and Secretary of State for Justice (Shabana Mahmood)]

This Government inherited a situation in which 10% of offenders account for 50% of all offences, with a small number of repeat offenders wreaking havoc in our communities and on our high streets. Cracking down on these offenders is a central part of any successful strategy to cut crime, and we will accept David Gauke’s recommendations, particularly on the further roll-out of intensive supervision courts. However, the hon. Member must accept the reality of the inheritance left by his Government, which included an increase in sentences although they delivered only 500 prison places over their 14 years in power.

[Stuart Anderson]

South Shropshire residents would expect high street crime to be dealt with, and proportionate sentencing and appropriate deterrents. How will removing short-term prison sentences achieve any of that?

[Shabana Mahmood]

The hon. Member should know that 60% of all people who are given a short custodial sentence go on to reoffend within the year, so clearly the system that we have does not work. We cannot simply sit back and keep doing things that we know result in increased reoffending in communities that we all want to protect. We have to look at interventions that will make a difference. Tough community punishment produces better reductions in reoffending than short sentences. We will consult Members across the House as we prepare our Bill in the coming weeks to make sure that we have a strong package of unpaid work and other measures designed to toughen up community punishment.

[Shaun Davies (Telford) (Lab)]

Does the Lord Chancellor agree that when it comes to sentencing, ancillary orders, including those banning offenders from shops and high streets, are part of the answer? We need the police, together with the Crown Prosecution Service, to apply for them, and when an offender appears in court, we need the courts to issue those orders when sentencing.

[Shabana Mahmood]

My hon. Friend raises an important point. He is right that so-called ancillary orders, often referred to as travel bans, bans from seeing football and bans on the ability to go to particular areas, are an important part of the package of measures that the Gauke review has recommended. We have accepted those in principle and I look forward to working with my hon. Friend and other colleagues as we draw up our package of proposals for the upcoming sentencing Bill.

[Mr Speaker]

I call the shadow Minister.

[Dr Kieran Mullan (Bexhill and Battle) (Con)]

Whatever the sentence or offence, victims and families deserve a meaningful and fair route to appeal sentences that are unduly lenient. Twenty-eight days for people who have experienced deep trauma, when criminals get an unlimited time to appeal, is not meaningful or fair. Can the Lord Chancellor explain to campaigners such as Katie Brett and Ayse Hussein from Justice for Victims why she is not willing to give them more time?

[Shabana Mahmood]

The shadow Minister should know that the Law Commission is considering the whole area of unduly lenient sentencing. It is important that we let it do its work and that it is able to look at the measures in the round and think about the consequences across the whole criminal justice system. We will review those proposals once they are made and legislate if we need to.

[Dr Mullan]

I am afraid that that explanation will not wash. The Lord Chancellor knows that she is choosing to give the Government more time in her Bill ahead of the Law Commission’s decision. Why is she giving herself more time, but not victims?

[Shabana Mahmood]

If the shadow Minister ever did any homework, he would know that it is always the Attorney General who has to agree and sign off on unduly lenient sentencing referrals. Our proposals are there to make sure that the Attorney General always has a full 28-day period to consider and make rulings that often help victims. He will also know that the Law Commission is looking at that work. The Conservative Government had 14 years; why did they never do anything?

[Tim Roca (Macclesfield) (Lab)]

9. What steps her Department is taking to help support victims of sexual abuse.

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[David Simmonds (Ruislip, Northwood and Pinner) (Con)]

16. What discussions she has had with the Sentencing Council on sentencing guidelines for immigration offences.

[The Lord Chancellor and Secretary of State for Justice (Shabana Mahmood)]

Ministers meet regularly with the chair of the Sentencing Council. On the specific guidelines for immigration offences, the hon. Member will know that they set a minimum sentence, but no maximum. Judges can still sentence as they see fit within the limits of what the law allows, and foreign criminals can still be deported, even if they are sentenced to less than 12 months.

[David Simmonds]

As the shadow Justice Secretary heard when he visited on Friday, criminal gangs are imposing a significant cost on Hillingdon, which has the highest level of asylum seekers per capita of any local authority, because the council has to support asylum seekers who have been smuggled into the UK. What plans does the Justice Secretary have to ensure that we have tougher sentences that are fit for purpose, so that our communities do not face this burden in the future?

[Shabana Mahmood]

I can assure the hon. Gentleman that I and colleagues in the Justice Department are working closely with our colleagues in the Home Department to make sure that we have a joined-up approach to tackling the issues he has raised. He knows that asylum is primarily a policy issue for the Home Secretary, and I will make sure that she and her team are made aware of the specific problems in Hillingdon that he has raised today.

[Mr Speaker]

I call the shadow Justice Secretary.

[Robert Jenrick (Newark) (Con)]

For the first time, the Sentencing Council has published immigration sentencing guidelines. They water down sentences passed by Parliament, which means that hundreds of illegal migrants every year will avoid the threshold for automatic deportation. Once again, the Justice Secretary’s officials were in the meeting and waved the guidelines through, and I have the minutes to prove it. Has the Justice Secretary lost control of her Department once again, or is it the case that, as the Defence Secretary said on Sunday, this Government have simply “lost control” of our borders?

[Shabana Mahmood]

No; what this Government are doing is cleaning up the almighty mess left to us by the previous Government, of which the right hon. Gentleman was a member. He knows full well that I have already signalled an intention to review the powers of the Sentencing Council. We have an upcoming sentencing Bill, and I will take the action that he and his Government never did in 14 long years. [Interruption.] He has suddenly found his voice—he did not have it for a decade or more.

[Tessa Munt (Wells and Mendip Hills) (LD)]

17. What assessment she has made of the potential implications for her policies of the third report of the Justice Committee of Session 2022-23 on IPP sentences, HC 266, published on 22 September 2022.

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[Susan Murray (Mid Dunbartonshire) (LD)]

T1. If she will make a statement on her departmental responsibilities.

[The Lord Chancellor and Secretary of State for Justice (Shabana Mahmood)]

I know the House shares my anger at recent attacks against prison officers. After the awful events at HMP Frankland, I commissioned a review into the use of protective body armour, and today I can announce that I will mandate its use in close supervision centres, separation centres, and segregation units in the high security estate. That is my initial response to the review, but I will set out further action on body armour in due course. When Jonathan Hall’s independent review into the Frankland attacks reports, I will take any further steps necessary to protect our brave staff.

Crime must be punished, but on the rare occasions that a miscarriage of justice has taken place, the Criminal Cases Review Commission exists to uncover and rectify that injustice. In recent years the commission has lost the trust of the public. It must now win it back, so today I have appointed Dame Vera Baird, a former Victims’ Commissioner, to be its interim chair. She will review the commission, its governance and leadership, and ensure that it delivers once more for those who have been victims of injustice.

[Susan Murray]

What discussions have the Government had regarding the International Court of Justice’s 2024 judgment on Israel and Palestine?

[Shabana Mahmood]

The hon. Lady will know that that is a matter primarily for the Foreign Secretary. We keep under review all judgments of all courts, domestic and international, and adopt our policy position accordingly. I will ensure that her concerns, if there are any, are raised directly with the Foreign Secretary.

[Shaun Davies (Telford) (Lab)]

T4.   The 14,500 volunteer magistrates who deal with 95% of criminal cases are the backbone of our justice system. Will the Lord Chancellor meet me, the Magistrates’ Association, and a group of cross-party MPs who recently wrote to her, calling for a long-service medal to be established for justices, as well as discussing the Magistrates’ Association’s forthcoming report on how to recruit and retain magistrates, as she increases their powers and responsibilities?

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[Robert Jenrick (Newark) (Con)]

Brave prison officers are under attack, and I am warning again that, if the Government do not act now, an officer will be killed on the Justice Secretary’s watch. After the Southport killer, Axel Rudakubana, allegedly attacked an office with boiling water, he is now bingeing on treats such as Maltesers and Pringles. When will the Justice Secretary strip Rudakubana and monsters like him of those privileges and put them in solitary confinement? When will she finally have the backs of all our brave prison officers, by giving each and every one the protection that they need in the form of high-collar, stab-proof vests, and not just a privileged few in the most limited circumstances?

[Shabana Mahmood]

Let me give the shadow Secretary of State a much-needed education, because he appears not to know that under the Tory Government violence on staff in our prisons soared and experienced officers left in droves because of it. That is the inheritance I received, and that is the mess that this Government are clearing up. He will know that I have already acted on suspending the use of self-cook facilities, and Jonathan Hall is looking into the HMP Frankland attack. I have made the announcement on body armour, and I will not hesitate to take any further action, but unlike him I will not take “headline-grabbing” measures, just for the sake of a headline.

[Mr Speaker]

Order. Can I just say to both Front Benchers that Back Benchers also have to get in? Topical questions have to be short and punchy. Please, let us stick to the script. If the right hon. Member wants to ask longer questions, he should come in earlier—I could have picked the questions where he could have been brought in.

[Robert Jenrick]

Last month, nine countries wrote to the Council of Europe calling for urgent reform of the European convention on human rights to tackle the migration crisis. The UK was conspicuously absent, and instead the Attorney General has likened critics of the ECHR to the Nazis. The Justice Secretary is reported in the press to find Lord Hermer “very frustrating”, and “personally unbearable”. Well, Mr Speaker, we might have found an area of cross-party consensus, but why did the Justice Secretary not sign the letter? Are the Government irrelevant, or are she and the Prime Minister defending a broken system?

[Shabana Mahmood]

Again, if the shadow Secretary of State ever paid any attention to detail, he would know that that letter was sent by EU member states and we are no longer a member of the European Union. Let me assure him that I am absolutely committed to considering the wider picture of our human rights law and I will not hesitate to take action where I need to.

[Alex Baker (Aldershot) (Lab)]

T7.   The backlog of Crown court cases in Hampshire and the Isle of Wight reached an eight-year high last year, which has had a huge impact on victims and defendants in Aldershot and Farnborough who are struggling to get on with their lives. What steps is the Minister taking to reduce delays in local justice for my constituents?

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[Josh Babarinde (Eastbourne) (LD)]

Does the Secretary of State agree with the chair of the Prison Governors’ Association that the Conservative proposal to arm prison officers with lethal weapons is just “headline-grabbing nonsense”? Does she agree that, on top of providing body armour, the serious means to protect prison officers is by ensuring that they get the years’ long training they deserve, not the weeks’ long crash course that the last Government left them with?

[Shabana Mahmood]

I agree with the hon. Gentleman. Again, people who pay attention to the detail will know that there are already mutual aid agreements in place between prisons and local police forces to ensure that if an armed response is required, it is available.

[Mark Ferguson (Gateshead Central and Whickham) (Lab)]

T8. I am sure that hon. Members from all parties will be looking forward to Olivia’s law, in memory of Olivia Pratt-Korbel, coming into force, thanks to a huge amount of support from my hon. Friend the Member for Knowsley (Anneliese Midgley), Olivia’s family and other families. What else can be done to ensure that murderers, rapists and other violent criminals are forced to answer in court for their crimes?

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[Mr Andrew Snowden (Fylde) (Con)]

T3. The Secretary of State recently announced that paedophiles will be castrated ahead of early release from prison, which turns out to be nothing more than taking some pills that may—I repeat “may”—reduce their libido. Will the Secretary of State confirm here and now that no paedophile prisoner will be released from prison early until it has been proven that the medication has effectively castrated them?

[Shabana Mahmood]

Chemical suppression is a mechanism used by other jurisdictions around the world, and it has been shown to work. The previous Government sat on a pilot for years on end and did nothing. I have said that I will pull every lever at our disposal to deal with sex offending once and for all.

[Jess Asato (Lowestoft) (Lab)]

A family court judge who would have made decisions in relation to many abused children was recently found guilty by the High Court of abusing their own adopted children. Does the Minister agree that protecting the anonymity of members of the judiciary who have abused their children, particularly when it relates so intimately to their own work in court, risks undermining public trust in our legal system?

[Sir Desmond Swayne (New Forest West) (Con)]

T5. Lord Hermer says that we are not even trying to reform the convention. Why not?

[Shabana Mahmood]

I do not know what the right hon. Member is referring to, because the Government have already announced that we are considering the way in which our human rights laws are applied in immigration cases. I am the policy owner for the European convention on human rights, and I am considering its application within our domestic laws as well. I do not know what other reassurance he needs.

[Anneliese Midgley (Knowsley) (Lab)]

I welcome the Lord Chancellor’s commitment to tightening up exclusion zones. Knowsley has some of the highest rates of domestic abuse in the country, so that kind of action will be important for victims. Does she agree that an offender’s freedom should never come before a victim’s right to feel and be safe?

[Shabana Mahmood]

My hon. Friend raises such an important point. I have been struck by so many meetings with victims in which they feel that the exclusion zones, as currently constructed, effectively make them constrained, rather than the offenders. That is why I want to move to restriction zones for offenders, and we will bring forward our proposals in the upcoming sentencing Bill.

[Charlotte Cane (Ely and East Cambridgeshire) (LD)]

T6. Rural communities often find it even more difficult to access legal aid providers than in urban areas. What steps is the Minister taking to help to provide access to legal aid to people in rural areas?

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[Andrew Cooper (Mid Cheshire) (Lab)]

At just 12 years old, my constituent was subjected to horrific abuse by a family member who was ultimately convicted of nine offences, including four counts of rape. The offender was sentenced in youth court to just a three-year referral order and a two-year restraining order. My constituent cannot appeal this sentence under the unduly lenient sentence scheme simply because of the court in which the case was heard. Will the Minister review this deeply troubling case and consider extending the unduly lenient sentence scheme to include youth court rape convictions?

[Shabana Mahmood]

I hope that my hon. Friend heard the earlier answer on the unduly lenient sentence scheme and the review by the Law Commission, but if he writes to me with the specifics of that case, I will make sure that we look into it.

[Rebecca Paul (Reigate) (Con)]

As of 1 May this year, there were seven biological males in HMP Downview, a women’s prison in my constituency. Can the Secretary of State confirm when they will be moved out?

[Shabana Mahmood]

The hon. Lady will be aware that those seven biological males are on E wing, which is a transgender-only facility. We will review the recent Supreme Court ruling and make sure that we are compliant in everything we do going forward. We have inherited a policy that we supported in opposition. It was a strong act by the last Government, but we will build on that following the Supreme Court’s recent ruling.

[Kim Johnson (Liverpool Riverside) (Lab)]

A recent freedom of information request showed that between January 2022 and March 2024, 52 prison staff were recommended for dismissal due to breaches of security. However, ten times that number resigned over similar breaches. What action has the Minister taken to strengthen training, oversight and accountability across the Prison Service to address this worrying trend and prevent further security failures?

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[Sarah Pochin (Runcorn and Helsby) (Reform)]

Is the Justice Secretary content that her Department spends more than half a billion pounds every year locking up criminals who belong in other countries?

[Shabana Mahmood]

I am content that this Government have deported more foreign national offenders than the previous Government. I am content that we have accepted the findings of the Gauke review, and we will be bringing the early removal scheme threshold from 50% down to 30% to make that sure more foreign offenders are eligible for removal from our country.

[Harpreet Uppal (Huddersfield) (Lab)]

Sadly, some of my constituents have experienced a double blow, not only from having defective cavity wall insulation installed, but from being pursued for adverse legal costs by firms such as SSB Law. Ministers have previously confirmed that the Solicitors Regulation Authority has opened an investigation. Will the Minister provide an update on that investigation and meet me to discuss how those affected can get redress?

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[Carla Lockhart (Upper Bann) (DUP)]

Recently, I attended a service marking 40 years since William Heenan was murdered by the IRA for being a Protestant. While we honoured his memory, the self-proclaimed “First Minister for all” in Northern Ireland was visiting the newly erected statue of IRA terrorist Bobby Sands, glorifying the movement responsible for the cold-blooded murder of men such as William. Will the Minister agree to meet me and innocent victims from Northern Ireland regarding the review and improvement of the glorification of terrorism legislation that applies to Northern Ireland?

[Shabana Mahmood]

As I think the hon. Lady will be aware, that is primarily a policy area for our colleagues in the Northern Ireland Office, but I will make sure that we raise those issues with them.

[Nick Timothy (West Suffolk) (Con)]

Yesterday, a man was convicted of a public order offence after burning a Koran outside the Turkish embassy. The judge said that the fact that the man was attacked was proof that he was guilty of disorderly behaviour. This is grotesque, and means that in effect, we have a blasphemy law. Does the Justice Secretary believe that this should hold, or will the Government back my Bill to put an end to all of this madness next week?

[Shabana Mahmood]

We do not have a blasphemy law, and we are not going to have a blasphemy law in this country. As the hon. Gentleman will be aware, I believe that that specific case is going to be subject to an appeal, so it would be inappropriate for me or any other Minister to comment on the details of the matter. However, I am sure that once all other channels are exhausted and we have a final resolution, we will be debating these matters in detail in this House.