Brexit: Belfast Agreement

Viscount Younger of Leckie Excerpts

Thursday 8th September 2016 Lords Chamber

[Lord Dholakia (LD)]

My Lords, on behalf of the noble Lord, Lord Rana, and at his request, I beg leave to ask the Question standing in his name on the Order Paper.

[Viscount Younger of Leckie (Con)]

My Lords, the future of the Belfast agreement is not, and never has been, in question. The UK’s exit from the EU does not change the commitment of the UK Government and the people of Northern Ireland to the Belfast agreement, its successors and the institutions that they establish. The Government will make a success of the UK’s exit from the EU and continue to build a brighter, more secure future for Northern Ireland.

[Lord Dholakia]

My Lords, the Minister is aware that Northern Ireland has a border with another EU country. Under the Belfast agreement, most people living in Northern Ireland are entitled to dual citizenship. Many people already carry Irish passports and, since the referendum, many more—including unionists—have applied for Irish passports to protect their status as EU citizens. Can the Minister explain how the Government will work to secure the retention of EU citizens’ rights, including the free movement of goods and people across the Irish border? Does he agree with me that this is a unique situation affecting 1.8 million people and can he explain how Brexit affects them?

[Viscount Younger of Leckie]

The noble Lord quite rightly points out the important rights afforded to the people of Northern Ireland under the Belfast agreement. Let me reaffirm that there is nothing in the outcome of the referendum that undermines the Government’s rock-solid commitment to that agreement and its successors. The Government recognise the very real benefits of the common travel area; the open border for people and businesses has served us well. The Secretary of State for Northern Ireland has been very clear that it is an absolute priority for him that we,

“do not … see a return to the borders of the past”.—[Official Report, Commons, 20/7/16; col. 815.]

[Lord Reid of Cardowan (Lab)]

Will the Minister confirm that the Belfast agreement is not just an internal agreement between the parties in Northern Ireland but an international treaty between two sovereign states of the United Kingdom and the Republic of Ireland? As such, can he tell us whether it is lodged with the European Union and, if so, what implications would the withdrawal of one of the parties from the European Union have on the status of that international treaty?

[Viscount Younger of Leckie]

It is true what the noble Lord says: it is an interrelated agreement—it is power sharing for Northern Ireland and it is quite a complicated agreement, but there is no reason to suggest that the outcome of the referendum means that the agreement needs to be revisited. Perhaps I can reassure the noble Lord on that. The UK Government, Irish Government and Northern Ireland political parties are fully committed to upholding the agreement and its successors.

[Lord Howell of Guildford (Con)]

My Lords, is my noble friend aware that the Republic of Ireland has shown some interest recently in associate membership of the Commonwealth? Do Her Majesty’s Government consider that this could be useful in resolving some of the border problems which are being discussed? If so, will the Government consider pressing the Commonwealth authorities to develop the relationship with the Republic of Ireland which is already blossoming quite strongly?

[Viscount Younger of Leckie]

This is a helpful comment from my noble friend. I know that the new Secretary of State for Northern Ireland has hit the ground running, if I may put it that way. He has been meeting a variety of parties to ensure that he gets into his new role. I will pass that message on.

[Lord Rogan (UUP)]

My Lords, several Ministers have repeatedly stated that our land frontier with the European Union will not be a hard border. What discussions have the Government had with the Government of the Republic of Ireland to determine the exact nature of this, our only land border?

[Viscount Younger of Leckie]

It is clearly a priority and I can reassure the noble Lord that discussions are already taking place. There is—and always has been—a strong will to preserve the common travel area and to ensure that we do not have a hard border. This is what the Government are working towards.

[Lord Hain (Lab)]

My Lords, is not the problem that this is the first time in history that Northern Ireland and the Republic will be on opposite sides of a European border? They joined together in 1973; although the common travel area has been in existence since the early 1920s, there were tough security controls and border checks during the Troubles. Is it not unthinkable that, in an era of mass refugee migration and jihadi terrorism, the only land border between the UK and the EU would be completely open?

--- Later in debate ---

[Viscount Younger of Leckie]

The point is well made by the noble Lord, who has much experience in this particular area. I want to reassure him that this is very much at the top of the agenda. On the one hand, we want to have a soft, not a hard border. At the same time, all parties are well aware of the security issues and of people passing to and fro.

[Lord Shutt of Greetland (LD)]

My Lords, the Belfast agreement gives encouragement to the use of European Union resources in Northern Ireland—and across the island of Ireland as a whole. Presently, £3.5 billion is scheduled to be spent between 2014 and 2020 for peace, INTERREG, rural development and agricultural support. What comfort can the Minister give that these resources, planned to be available for the entire period of the 2014-2020 programmes, can be honoured?

[Viscount Younger of Leckie]

The first thing to say to reassure the noble Lord is that the UK will continue to have all the rights, obligations and benefits that membership brings—including receiving European funding—up to the point at which we leave the EU. We recognise that many organisations across the UK which are in receipt of EU funding, or expect to start receiving it, want reassurance about this. The Chancellor of the Exchequer has confirmed that structural investment funds projects, signed before the Autumn Statement, and the Horizon research funding that has been granted, will be guaranteed.

[Lord Kilclooney (CB)]

My Lords, as someone involved in the negotiations of the Belfast agreement, can I ask the Minister whether the Council of Europe Convention for the Protection of Human Rights is a requirement in the Belfast agreement? Secondly, since there are now more people from Poland than from the Republic of Ireland living in Northern Ireland, will both those with Irish passports and those with Polish passports be guaranteed their future in Northern Ireland after Brexit?

[Viscount Younger of Leckie]

I can only repeat what I said in my first Answer which is that the Belfast agreement remains intact and we do not envisage any changes.

Brexit: UK Universities

Viscount Younger of Leckie Excerpts

Wednesday 20th July 2016 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Eccles of Moulton]

To ask Her Majesty’s Government how they will ensure that the interests of United Kingdom universities and their students and staff from European Union member states are protected in the current period of uncertainty following the European Union referendum.

[Viscount Younger of Leckie (Con)]

My Lords, there will be no immediate change to the rights of UK universities and their students and staff from EU countries. EU students who are currently eligible to receive funding from the Student Loans Company will continue to do so for courses that they are currently enrolled on or about to start this autumn. UK researchers can still apply for Horizon 2020 projects. There is no change to those currently participating in or about to start Erasmus+ exchanges and Marie Curie fellowships.

[Baroness Eccles of Moulton (Con)]

My Lords, I thank the noble Viscount for his reply. He will appreciate that uncertainty is immensely unhelpful and unsettling. What have the Government actually done so far to reassure those in the university and academic research sectors, who have benefited from our current relationship with Europe?

[Viscount Younger of Leckie]

I certainly recognise that a degree of anxiety is arising from the universities and research community, which is understandable. Perhaps I can give some reassurance that since the referendum result was received, the Minister for Universities and Science, Jo Johnson, issued an initial statement as early as 29 June and has talked to many academic institutions and stakeholders about their concerns. Both the Government and the Student Loans Company took immediate steps to publish information for students and the wider higher education sector on their websites, which included information on EU nationals and student finance in England, and a focus on EU student and staff status.

[Lord Anderson of Swansea (Lab)]

My Lords, at a meeting in the House yesterday, we heard from an academic from Southampton University—one of the Russell group—that a number of senior colleagues who are EU nationals had received emails inviting them to return home to their countries. Unless the uncertainty is cleared up soon, is there not a danger that we shall lose a degree of quality in our universities?

[Viscount Younger of Leckie]

That is certainly one of the concerns that has arisen, and it is why the Minister has acted quickly to attempt to reassure the sector. It is essential that we move quickly to reassure all those who are based here, because it is incredibly important for the UK economy that we have skilled staff and that we have students studying here, because they provide a lot of revenue for the UK.

[Baroness Garden of Frognal (LD)]

My Lords, the EU makes substantial financial contributions to research in UK universities, amounting to around £1 billion a year. What provision are the Government making to ensure the quality of research in our universities, should that funding be withdrawn?

[Viscount Younger of Leckie]

This is certainly one issue that will be at the top of the agenda when the discussions start on the future of our relationship with the EU. I am unable to go further on that point at the moment but I reassure the noble Baroness that this is a very important matter.

[Lord Trees (CB)]

My Lords, in my field of veterinary science, nearly 25% of the academic staff in veterinary schools in the UK are EU nationals, and I do not think that that figure is untypical of many university departments throughout the UK in many different fields. These staff make a crucial contribution to our teaching and research and are essential for the international exchange which maintains our academic excellence. Can the Minister reassure us that, leading up to Brexit and beyond, universities will still be able to enjoy the benefits of the contributions that our overseas colleagues can make?

[Viscount Younger of Leckie]

I can certainly reassure the noble Lord on that point. Indeed, yesterday the Home Secretary, Amber Rudd, said that she did not believe that EU citizens currently living in the UK will have their right to stay withdrawn. I reiterate that it is very important that we keep the best people who are working here, because that is very important for the economy.

[Lord Stevenson of Balmacara (Lab)]

My Lords, I welcome the Minister to the Front Bench again, and I look forward to dealing with him on higher education. Currently, approximately 6% of our entire student body is made up of EU nationals and they account for nearly 12% of all students at master’s level. We are talking about significant numbers and therefore also significant funds. Have the Government made any estimate of the likely reduction in the number of students from the EU coming for courses starting this September? Those courses will of course last for three or four years, when the likely horizon for Brexit is two years.

[Viscount Younger of Leckie]

We have given reassurances about this current year but we cannot give further reassurances beyond those. Again, I reiterate that this matter is at the very top of the agenda. We recognise that, for example, there are 125,000 EU students, who account for 5% of the total number—a figure that has been consistent across the last three years—and it is very important to move quickly to reassure them.

[Baroness Afshar (CB)]

My Lords, is the Minister aware of the impact that these exchanges have on the students? Are students and the younger generation in the UK right in thinking that the current Government are simply not concerned about their future development?

[Viscount Younger of Leckie]

The noble Baroness makes a good point. It is very important that we generate skills among young people in this country to encourage them to stay here and develop. This country needs to develop the skills that are required to see us through future innovation and to keep up the excellent standards that we have in our universities.

[Lord Kinnock (Lab)]

It is not strictly true for the Minister to say—and I am sure that he is not intending to mislead—that there is no immediate difficulty being felt in universities, when there are so many authentic reports of difficulties already being encountered, especially in the area of science where there is strongly developed, co-operative endeavour with other EU member states. Will the Minister accept that those in this House and elsewhere who have claimed that, in getting subsidy for universities and for science, we have been claiming—

[Lord Kinnock]

I am asking a question. Will the Minister accept that those who have claimed that we have been only getting our own money back have been misleading public opinion and this House, when there has been a large return vastly in excess of our contributions to the European Union for science research, running at about £400 million a year? Can he give us any undertaking that this level of crucial support for science in our universities will definitely be maintained? If it is not, it will be an act of national sabotage.

[Viscount Younger of Leckie]

The noble Lord has made an interesting, important and, if I may put it that way, blunt point. I agree with him that the UK gets more than 15% of EU science funding—we are the second largest beneficiary—having put 12% into the total EU budget. I can say only that it is at the top of the agenda to maintain it.