UK Relations with Gibraltar and Spain

Tuesday 19th November 2013 Westminster Hall

11:00

[Jim Dobbin (Heywood and Middleton) (Lab/Co-op)]

It is good to see you in the Chair, Mr Gray. It is a pleasure to have this short debate under your chairmanship. Its timing could not be more crucial. I declare an interest as the chair of the all-party group on Gibraltar. I realise that other hon. Members are interested in the debate, and I shall do my best to accommodate as many of them as possible.

The Spanish Government’s treatment of the people of Gibraltar is of very serious concern, particularly since May this year. We all know that the Spanish incursions into Gibraltar waters have been going on for a good number of years, but during 2013 the Spanish Government have deliberately been focusing world attention away from their serious economic problems at home, where there is major unemployment and, more seriously, accusations of corruption at the highest levels of government. In that context, the Government of Spain have sought to create what I would call a diversion. I have a number of examples, which will help to illustrate the experience of the Gibraltar people over the past year.

On 25 June, a Spanish Guardia Civil vessel pursued a jet-ski into British Gibraltar territorial waters, firing what could be described as non-lethal shots. The Gibraltar Chief Minister obviously protested about that incident. Then in July Gibraltar begins to lay concrete blocks in British Gibraltar territorial waters to create an artificial reef similar to the reef in Spanish waters. What followed was an increase in the Guardia Civil’s politically motivated checks on the Spain-Gibraltar border.

[Mr Nigel Dodds (Belfast North) (DUP)]

I congratulate the hon. Gentleman on securing this most timely and important debate. What assessment has he made of the EU Commission’s ruling that these politically motivated and illegal checks did not breach EU law, and has he thought about the once again insidious influence of the EU in these matters?

[Jim Dobbin]

I thank the right hon. Gentleman for his intervention. I aim to address that issue later in my contribution.

The incident that I was talking about led to crossing delays of up to seven hours. The disruption to workers’ livelihoods is evident. There are reports that it also affected Spanish people who travel to work in Gibraltar and then travel home.

[Caroline Dinenage (Gosport) (Con)]

The hon. Gentleman is right; more than 4,000 Spanish nationals cross the border every day to go to work in Gibraltar. Does he agree that, given the parlous state of the Spanish economy at the moment, what he describes is a massive own goal on the part of the Spanish Government?

[Jim Dobbin]

I could not agree more with the hon. Lady’s comments. I think that it is a tragedy that the Spanish Government are imploding on their own people as far as work is concerned.

In July, lorries from Gibraltar carrying construction materials were turned away from the border by the Guardia Civil. At that time, the all-party group met the Minister for Europe to request that he summon the Spanish ambassador to the Foreign and Commonwealth Office over the border delays. That duly happened and strong complaints were made to Spain about the closure of the border.

In August, the Spanish Government increased pressure on the UK and Gibraltar with additional border checks, a tax clampdown, action on telephone lines, an increase in naval patrols, a restriction on access to Spanish airspace and rigorous application of legislation on smuggling and the environment.

[Jack Lopresti (Filton and Bradley Stoke) (Con)]

I, too, am a member of the all-party Gibraltar group. It is worth highlighting the contrast between the intolerance of the Spanish towards Gibraltar and Gibraltar people, given that Gibraltar is such a wonderful melting pot of many different cultures, religions and ethnic groups, who work and live together and thrive and prosper together so well.

[Jim Dobbin]

I could not agree more with the hon. Gentleman’s comments. The all-party group has been to Gibraltar several times, and that is what people actually see in Gibraltar.

Also in August, the border restrictions again increased waiting times to three hours. The Prime Minister intervened and complained to Spanish Prime Minister Rajoy about the delays. The delays, however, continued to occur, for up to three hours. In August, the Spanish media said that Spanish Foreign Secretary Garcia-Margallo was considering a partnership with Argentina to take action through the United Nations against the UK and Gibraltar and possibly at the International Court of Justice. The border delays continued, for up to four hours, and the British Prime Minister suggested that the European Commission monitor the situation at the border—more of that later.

In mid-August, 35 Spanish fishing boats protested in Spanish water and entered British Gibraltar territorial water. That incident was policed by the Royal Gibraltar Police and the Guardia Civil, with, on that occasion, good co-operation between the two, and peace was maintained.

[Oliver Colvile (Plymouth, Sutton and Devonport) (Con)]

Is the hon. Gentleman aware that Gibraltar has been part of the United Kingdom—has come under the Crown—for the past 300 years, and will he join me in the campaign to see whether it might be awarded the George cross?

[Jim Dobbin]

Yes, I am well aware of that campaign, but Spain does not seem to be aware of the treaty of Utrecht. On the point about the George cross, that is a campaign that the hon. Gentleman and the other campaigners will want to pursue. I would suggest that they appreciate the sensitivity of that issue, because the George cross is associated with Malta at present. Therefore, perhaps that campaign should be at arm’s length and respectful of the difficult situation that the Government of Gibraltar are in.

Spanish Foreign Secretary Garcia-Margallo issued the Spanish legal position on Gibraltar in The Wall Street Journal, but without inclusion of the impact on the Gibraltar people or their wishes on self-determination. It was an extremely biased article.

On 27 August, the mayor of a Spanish town posted a mocked-up picture of Spain invading Gibraltar online—another very provocative act.

[Caroline Dinenage]

I very much appreciate the hon. Gentleman’s patience with my bobbing up and down. Can he settle the question in my mind about whether the Spanish are equally keen on giving back Ceuta to the Moroccans?

[Jim Dobbin]

I do intend to address that in my speech as well, but the hon. Lady is right. That will be a huge problem for Spain if it continues with its policies against Gibraltar.

Fabian Picardo, the Gibraltar Chief Minister, came to London for talks with the British Prime Minister and Foreign Secretary. At this level, Spain continues to agree with the premise that Spain, Gibraltar and the UK resume a trilateral dialogue. Meanwhile, the border delays continue. Spain was originally suggesting that there should be bilateral discussions here, but that is not on the cards.

On an extremely serious note, since that time a Spanish ship is reported to have rammed a naval police vessel escorting a Navy ship. Reports state that guns were pointed. Thankfully, no shots were fired, but we are getting into quite a dangerous situation following that.

[Robert Neill (Bromley and Chislehurst) (Con)]

I congratulate the hon. Gentleman on securing this debate. Like him, I am a member of the all-party parliamentary group on Gibraltar. Does he agree not only that Spain’s behaviour is incompatible with acting in good faith as a fellow member of the European Union, but that it is difficult to reconcile such behaviour towards Crown forces with acting in good faith as a fellow member of NATO, particularly bearing in mind the work of the Royal Gibraltar Regiment as part of NATO operations, in recognition of which its outgoing commander was awarded the military cross? It is scarcely credible that Spain should adopt so belligerent an attitude towards a fellow NATO member.

[Jim Dobbin]

I could not have put the point more clearly than the hon. Gentleman has done. The recent events highlight the serious situation that the British Government and the Government of Gibraltar are dealing with. The ongoing dispute ignores the wishes of the people of Gibraltar to remain British, as expressed in their referendum.

[Ian Paisley (North Antrim) (DUP)]

I congratulate the hon. Gentleman on securing this important debate. Given the catalogue of events that he has clearly outlined, does he agree that the European authorities have demonstrated utter cowardice in failing to recognise that Spain has breached European rules and regulations in the way in which it has approached a fellow member state? Does he look forward to the establishment of more crossing lanes between the Rock and Spain and the introduction of better risk proofing, to allow people to cross that border more quickly?

[Jim Dobbin]

As I said in response to the right hon. Member for Belfast North (Mr Dodds), I intend to address the European decision. As chairman of the all-party Gibraltar group, I want the Prime Minister, the Foreign Secretary, the Minister for Europe and the Leader of the Opposition to know that the people and the Government of Gibraltar appreciate how supportive they have been during this trying time. I also recognise the diplomacy of the present Chief Minister, Fabian Picardo, his predecessor, Peter Caruana and his predecessor, Joe Bassano. They have all led the Government of Gibraltar in a very diplomatic way.

[Glyn Davies (Montgomeryshire) (Con)]

The hon. Gentleman is absolutely right that we must give the impression that Britain will not give an inch in the debate about the ownership of Gibraltar. Does he share my hope that the Minister, in responding, will kill off any perception that might be growing in Gibraltar or Spain that Britain will ever give ground on the issue?

[Jim Dobbin]

The hon. Gentleman is absolutely correct, and I am sure that the Minister will concur with what he has just said. As long as the people of Gibraltar wish to remain British, they should remain British.

I finish with a few questions. If Spain continues to flout international relations, what more can the British Government do to achieve a peaceful conclusion to the dispute? Is there more scope to include the Spanish embassy in the UK more intensely in any solution? How will we ensure that the direct experience of the people of Gibraltar improves? We also have to deal with the European Commission’s advice. In its statement, it recommended changes in the Spanish administration of checks at the border. How will those changes be monitored and reported on?

The Commission’s statement, in my view, was woolly and inconsistent, and it ignored the real, provocative acts and the long delays at the border crossing. Greater awareness is needed across Europe about the real difficulties that the Spanish Government’s policies are creating for the people of Gibraltar and the serious effect that they are having on its economy. Several members of the all-party parliamentary group on Gibraltar are also members of the Council of Europe. We have a role in the Council of Europe, which is, after all, a human rights platform, to raise the matter and make the 47 countries across Europe more aware of the situation between Spain and Gibraltar.

On Ceuta and Melilla, I think that it would be foolish of the Spanish Government to pursue their current tactics, because they may end up with red faces if Ceuta and Melilla challenge them over breaches. If Spain continues with its provocative policies against Gibraltar, Morocco will probably respond, and Spain would ultimately be the loser. The Gibraltar Government and the British Government must continue to take part in trilateral talks to resolve the current difficulties. The all-party parliamentary group on Gibraltar will continue to support the people of Gibraltar in their wish to remain British, and we will stand by them at this particularly difficult time.

11:15

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs (Mark Simmonds)]

I am pleased to serve with your guidance this morning, Mr Gray. I know that you have a particular personal interest in the UK’s relationship with Gibraltar. I congratulate the hon. Member for Heywood and Middleton (Jim Dobbin) on securing this important debate at such a significant time and on the articulate and passionate way in which he outlined his case. He was particularly generous in the number of times that he gave way to parliamentary colleagues to allow as many people as possible to make important points.

I want to highlight the hon. Gentleman’s excellent work as chair of the all-party Gibraltar group and the significant way in which that group supports Gibraltarians and those in the UK who are interested in the future of Gibraltar. I am aware that the hon. Gentleman was among 20 UK parliamentarians who attended national day in Gibraltar on 10 September; I have done the same in years gone by. I hope therefore that he heard the message given by the Prime Minister to mark that occasion, in which he strongly reiterated the British Government’s commitment to protecting the right of the people of Gibraltar to determine their own political future. I will meet Chief Minister Picardo next week in London at the joint ministerial council, where we will discuss further the importance of the relationship and what we can do to make progress in some of the areas that the hon. Gentleman has highlighted.

[Bob Stewart (Beckenham) (Con)]

There is clear sadness and anger about what is happening to Gibraltar, and the British Government must do more to express the feelings of Parliament. It is an all-party matter, and we are fed up with what is happening to the people in Gibraltar. The Government have to be stronger; I do not know how, but for goodness’ sake, can we get a stronger response to what is happening to our people in Gibraltar?

[Mark Simmonds]

My hon. Friend makes a good point about the cross-party agreement in Parliament on the importance of supporting Gibraltarians in their desire to remain linked to the United Kingdom. I will come on to address his point specifically. I want to make it absolutely clear, however, at the beginning of my response to the debate that the United Kingdom will never enter into arrangements under which the people of Gibraltar would pass under the sovereignty of another state against their wishes. Furthermore, the United Kingdom will not enter into any process of sovereignty negotiations with which Gibraltar is not content. We will continue to respect the wishes of the people of Gibraltar. I do not think we could be any clearer about that.

The debate is about the United Kingdom’s relations with Gibraltar and with Spain, however, and we wish to maintain a strong bilateral relationship with Spain that stretches across a whole range of areas and delivers support for the interests of the UK and Gibraltar. We have a strong economic relationship with Spain that is worth £36 billion to the UK. Spain put £57 billion in inward investment into the UK in 2010, and the UK is the largest single investor in Spain. Spain is a member of the G20 and NATO, as my hon. Friend the Member for Bromley and Chislehurst (Robert Neill) has highlighted, and it is an important EU state. We have close ties through consular relationships. Spain is home to 1 million UK citizens, and 14 million of them visit annually. There is significant co-operation on crime, immigration and counter-terrorism. Last year, the National Crime Agency—formerly the Serious Organised Crime Agency —agreed the first UK-Spain joint investigation team in many years. We work with Spain across a range of areas, including our strong operational defence relationship.

[Caroline Dinenage]

I understand fully what the Minister says about the need to maintain a good working relationship with the Spanish, but the number of incursions into Gibraltar’s territorial water is unacceptable. Only yesterday, the Gibraltar Chronicle highlighted the fact that there was another Guardia Civil boat in Gibraltar’s waters. He will agree that we have to put out a strong message that that level of intrusion is not acceptable.

[Mark Simmonds]

My hon. Friend is absolutely right, and she makes a powerful point. Hopefully, the House recognises that the UK Government have made the strongest protestations to the Spanish Government, both about the issues on the border highlighted by the hon. Member for Heywood and Middleton and about the incursions into Gibraltar’s territorial waters, which are completely unacceptable. We have made official complaints. We are maintaining significant pressure on the Spanish Government and, as the hon. Gentleman highlighted, we have called in the Spanish ambassador.

[Martin Horwood (Cheltenham) (LD)]

Will the Minister give way?

[Mark Simmonds]

I will give way in a moment; I want to complete my response to the intervention from my hon. Friend the Member for Gosport (Caroline Dinenage). We need to find a mechanism to de-escalate, not escalate, the situation. We are working on that, while making it clear in the strongest possible terms that the current situation continuing is not acceptable.

[Martin Horwood]

I accept what the Minister says about de-escalation. Will he welcome the support given to the people of Gibraltar by their MEP, Sir Graham Watson, and urge the European Commission to step up or repeat its border monitoring exercise to see what is happening on the border, perhaps without giving the Spanish advance notice this time?

[Mark Simmonds]

The hon. Gentleman makes a good point. It is certainly unsurprising that the Commission has been unable to conclude that EU law has been infringed; the border operated much more smoothly than normal during the Commission’s visit. That is not the same as confirmation that Spain has acted lawfully. We continue to provide information and evidence to the Commission. We do not believe that it backs Spain’s claims that the checks are not politically motivated. Actions for Spain were up front in the Commission’s statement and we hope that the Spanish will make public the letter that they received from the Commission. We fully expect Spain to act on the Commission’s recommendations.

The Commission is clearly concerned about the situation. It is committed to remain engaged and to follow up in six months’ time. It has reserved the right to reconsider its position and has explicitly offered what the hon. Gentleman suggests: a further visit to the border. He makes a good point about Spain not being notified so the Commission can see what is going on. The Commission has made it clear that it is concerned and will revisit if required.

The Chief Minister of Gibraltar has welcomed the recommendations made to Spain on areas that could make a difference at the border and stressed that the Government of Gibraltar will work closely with the Commission to deliver against the recommendations made to Gibraltar. It is true that the Commission has at this stage been unable to conclude that EU law has been infringed, but that is quite different from confirmation that Spain acted lawfully.

[Ian Paisley]

I welcome the Minister’s interpretation, but may I ask him to go a little further? The European authorities said that Spain must share intelligence with Gibraltar. That would be a recognition of Gibraltar’s self-determination to be a separate place from Spain, because they would share intelligence as equals. Can he ensure that intelligence will be shared between Gibraltar and Spain to prevent some of the troubles that have occurred?

[Mark Simmonds]

The hon. Gentleman will not be surprised to hear that I will not comment on intelligence in this forum. There is a keen urgency about the necessity for ad hoc talks between Spain, the UK and Gibraltar. Officials are working to ensure that those discussions take place again.

My hon. Friend the Member for Gosport raised Spanish incursions into Gibraltarian territorial waters. The Government take seriously their responsibility to ensure Gibraltar’s security. We do not rule out any measures that are necessary to defend Gibraltar and ensure its security against a genuine threat. We believe that the unlawful incursions by Guardia Civil vessels and other vessels of the Spanish state are merely a futile attempt to assert Spain’s legal position in respect of the waters. They are not acts of war and they do not weaken or undermine the legal basis for British sovereignty over Gibraltar and British Gibraltar territorial waters. The British Government are committed to upholding British sovereignty. The Royal Navy challenges all unlawful incursions by Spanish state vessels though radio warnings and close monitoring of Spanish state vessels until they leave Gibraltarian waters. We also make formal protests to the Spanish Government about all such incursions on diplomatic channels, ensuring that the Spanish understand that those incursions are unacceptable violations of British sovereignty.

[Bob Stewart]

If the British Government are determined to defend Gibraltar, why do they not make more use of the defence facilities in Gibraltar? For example, we could send down more often a roulement infantry company, to be based in Gibraltar for perhaps six weeks at a time and exercise there, rather than somewhere like Kenya.

[Mark Simmonds]

Regiments play a significant role in Kenya. My response to my hon. Friend is the point I made earlier: we must strike a balance between being forceful, strong and determined—to ensure that the Spanish Government understand the UK Government’s position and that the Commission undertakes its role responsibly and consistently to ensure that the issues on the border and in Gibraltarian territorial water cease—and finding mechanisms to de-escalate, rather than escalate the situation. That is why we must get back to discussing solutions as soon as possible, without negotiating the Gibraltarian sovereignty position at all.

[Simon Hughes (Bermondsey and Old Southwark) (LD)]

The Government are being very robust about the principles, but will the Minister ensure that when we speak to the ambassador here and Ministers in Madrid, we make it clear that it is in Spain’s interest for the good relationship that exists between Gibraltar and La Linea locally to be expanded to the region? They need jobs, they need investment and they need tourists. They need people coming to Gibraltar airport. Making the region look like a place of huge confrontation and frightening investors away is not in Spain’s interest.

[Mark Simmonds]

I agree with the right hon. Gentleman. I assure him that the Prime Minister, the Deputy Prime Minister, the Foreign Secretary and the Minister for Europe have made exactly that point, and the other points I made, over the past couple of months, to try to ensure that Spain takes a constructive and positive stance in its relationship with Gibraltar, rather than a negative one.

[Robert Neill]

I welcome the tone of the Minister’s remarks and warmly welcome the Prime Minister’s comments at national day in Gibraltar. Many people hoped that he might have been able to deliver them in person. Does the Minister accept that credibility for Spain will be achieved by prompt and full adoption of the recommendations within the six-month period; prompt and full publication of the letter received from the EU; and full recognition that Commissioner Barnier has noted that Gibraltar’s regulation of financial services and anti-money laundering meet the highest European standards, and could frankly teach Spain a lesson?

[Mark Simmonds]

I am grateful for my hon. Friend’s intervention. The three points he makes are correct.

I am running out of time so I shall briefly say a couple of things. I reiterate the point that there have been constructive discussions with the Spanish about the proposals to move to ad hoc talks, and those discussions are ongoing. It also needs to be said that the long-term aim of the UK Government and the Government of Gibraltar is to return to the trilateral forum for dialogue, from which the Spanish Government withdrew on taking office in December 2011. In the short term, we need to find a way to manage our differences with Spain through talks, instead of border delays, incursions and other unacceptable and unlawful actions. While we seek diplomatic solutions to those challenges we will continue to take firm action whenever necessary to safeguard Gibraltar, its people and their economy.

11:30

Sitting suspended.