Lord Harper
To ask His Majesty’s Government what steps they are taking to ensure that the Independent Commission on Adult Social Care gives due consideration to the needs of working-age adults to live as independently as possible.
Baroness in Waiting/Government Whip (Baroness Blake of Leeds) (Lab)
My Lords, we have made it clear in the independent commission’s terms of reference that its chair, the noble Baroness, Lady Casey, must consider older people’s care and support for working-age disabled adults separately, recognising that services meet different needs. It is, of course, for her and her team to independently consider how to build a social care system fit for the future. The commission will first report in 2026, with phase 2 to follow by 2028.
Lord Harper (Con)
I am grateful to the Minister for her Answer. The reason I ask the Question is because, understandably, when this debate on social care takes place it almost inevitably focuses entirely on the needs of older people, whereas almost half of public expenditure on long-term care is on those of working age. I want a system where social care works well with the employment support system and personal independence payments to make sure that people who can work are able to do so. When the Government engage with the commission, whether through Ministers or officials, can they reiterate the importance of focusing on the needs of working-age adults so that they can live independently and work where they are able to, and that we end up with a system that is fit for purpose?
Baroness Blake of Leeds (Lab)
The noble Lord raises an incredibly important point; I would expect as much from his background in this area. It is fair to say that local authorities spend more than 50% on the working-age demographic, but he is absolutely right that the main focus—the news interest—tends to be on older adults. I reassure him that our Government will look at all the issues, and enabling people to get back into the workplace and stay there is absolutely critical. The most important thing about the review of the noble Baroness, Lady Casey, is that it will be inclusive. She has already held a cross-party meeting, and there will be ample opportunity for all Members to ensure that their voice is heard.
Lord Rook (Lab)
My Lords, in asking this question, I point to my own interest as a carer. Given the long-term challenges in our adult social care system, I am sure that all of us welcome the Prime Minister’s creation of an Independent Commission on Adult Social Care, and I am sure that we all welcome the appointment of the noble Baroness, Lady Casey, as its chair. To what extent will the commission engage with local government to understand some of the challenges, particularly in the provision of domiciliary care in the sector at this point?
Baroness Blake of Leeds (Lab)
My noble friend raises an important point, and I just highlight my personal experience of working with the noble Baroness, Lady Casey, which goes back over a couple of decades to when she first started the work on introducing ASBOs—I am sure that everyone will remember that—and then went on to troubled families. She has a very strong and clear understanding of the local government sector, and it will be fundamental, I am sure, given the importance of the sector in this whole area, that this engagement is profound. Of course, it is absolutely critical that we allow her to move forward with that important piece of work, but I am very sure—as I am sure that all noble Lords are—that the LGA will make its voice very loudly heard and make sure that its view are fed in on behalf of the people it represents.
Baroness Monckton of Dallington Forest (Con)
My Lords, I declare my interest as set out in the register as chair of Team Domenica. Many people with learning disabilities can live in supported living, but the more vulnerable need intentional communities, which parents across the country tell me that the CQC is trying to close down. Does the Minister agree that choice of where to live is just as important for people with learning disabilities as it is for the rest of the population?
Baroness Blake of Leeds (Lab)
I agree, and I would broaden that out to the whole emphasis on housing generally. Housing is a critical factor in the ability to thrive, to live independently and to move forward, but it is also about place and making sure that everyone has the opportunity to live near their supporters around them. This is a huge area of work. I hope that our commitment to improving housing in this country is known and understood, and this is a very important element of that.
Lord Laming (CB)
My Lords, it is a pleasure to follow the noble Baroness, Lady Monckton. Does the Minister agree that we are still writing off too many young people as unemployable because the focus has been on what they cannot do, rather than concentrating on what they would be enabled to do with the right kind of support and help? Does the Minister agree that we really need to change our attitude to be altogether more positive, creative and supportive, especially of these young people?
Baroness Blake of Leeds (Lab)
The noble Lord, as always, raises a fundamental point. One area that I have most concern about is that of transition. Some young people could be getting very valuable and profound support while they are of school age, but the transition into adulthood is where the gaps occur. We recognise this, and are working on a whole range of issues to make sure that they have opportunities. We need to make sure that every young person has the opportunity to thrive, whatever their background, whatever their health needs, and this Government are committed to do just that.
Baroness Burt of Solihull (LD)
My Lords, we spend about the same amount of money on supporting working- age adults as we do the elderly—about £11 billion per annum. We need to ensure that, within that expenditure, we enable people to have as good—indeed as gloriously ordinary—a life as possible. We obviously need to cover disabled people doing the mundane, day-to-day things, but we also need to give them the things that give them individual pleasure. What is the Minister’s view of the balance that people need for a fulfilling life, which we are surely all entitled to?
Baroness Blake of Leeds (Lab)
In many ways, despite all the challenges, we are entering an interesting and exciting phase in terms of new technologies, digital awareness and understanding how we can better engineer communication, for example. The noble Baroness is of course absolutely right that everyone deserves to have access to those opportunities, but we need to make sure that everyone is known, their needs are known, and the support is there so that they can thrive.
Lord Kamall (Con)
My Lords, I just continue the theme that the noble Lord, Lord Laming, referred to about not writing people off. Quite often, when we try to help people into work, we talk about work, but there are many entrepreneurs who may not be able to get into work because of a mental or physical disability but are able to start businesses. Is the noble Baroness aware of an organisation called Purple Shoots? It offers loans of between £500 and £3,000 and mentoring to people to help them to start businesses. I met one person who had been helped; they were wheelchair bound, they took themselves off benefits, took eight other people off benefits and showed the positive role of entrepreneurship. The problem is that such organisations do not get any lottery funding. Can she speak to her colleagues in DWP and DCMS to make sure that organisations such as Purple Shoots and Trust Leeds, which she may know, get that sort of funding?
Baroness Blake of Leeds (Lab)
The noble Lord has made me aware of Purple Shoots on other occasions and, to broaden things out slightly, this links to the NHS 10-year plan in terms of shifting more resources into the communities so that organisations can thrive and benefit and reach people who need them. I am absolutely happy to pass on that information.
Baroness Pitkeathley (Lab)
Is my noble friend aware— I am sure that she is—that those working-age adults who are the subject of this Question may also, in spite of their disabilities, provide care for members of their family who could not get care in any other way? Therefore, when we are thinking about their working situation, we need to take into account their possible caring responsibilities as well.
Baroness Blake of Leeds (Lab)
As always, my noble friend raises a very pertinent point, which pinpoints the fact that we should never make any assumptions about people and their responsibilities, regardless of the circumstances that they are in. I am very happy to have a conversation about all the different aspects that we are working on to improve the experience of carers, particularly unpaid carers.