(1 day, 20 hours ago)
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Baroness Hayter of Kentish Town
To ask His Majesty’s Government whether they plan to lower the drink drive limit.
The Minister of State, Department for Transport (Lord Hendy of Richmond Hill)
My Lords, this Government take road safety seriously. We are committed to reducing the numbers of those killed and injured on our roads. We are considering a range of policies under the new road safety strategy, the first for 10 years. This includes the case for changing motoring offences such as drink- driving. I assure the House that, as part of this, we are deeply considering concerns raised by campaigners and bereaved families whom my ministerial colleagues have met.
Baroness Hayter of Kentish Town (Lab)
I thank the Minister for that reply, in particular that the Government are considering changing offences such as drink-driving, reflecting concerns raised by bereaved families, such as mine. I lost two family members this way.
A fifth of road deaths—about 250 people a year—are because of drink-driving. That is equivalent to a Boeing 787 crashing every year; if one of those crashed every year, we would take it seriously. Even at 50 milligrams a person is severely impaired, which is why the police and the PCCs—everyone—have called for a reduction to 50 milligrams, which is supported by three-quarters of the public. Can the Minister urge colleagues to take seriously the possibility of saving the equivalent of a plane crash every year on our roads by reducing that level?
Lord Hendy of Richmond Hill (Lab)
My noble friend has my deep condolences for her family’s loss; I am sure that is echoed by your Lordships’ House. The Government’s view is that driving under the influence of drink is unacceptable and illegal. We are determined to combat this behaviour and to ensure that all such drivers are caught and punished. We have a combined approach of tough penalties and rigorous enforcement, alongside our highly respected and effective THINK! campaign. This reinforces the social unacceptability of drink-driving, reminding people of the serious consequences it has on themselves and others. We will have more to say.
Earl Attlee (Con)
My Lords, is it not the case that the Scottish Government did exactly what the noble Baroness proposes, then commissioned research that showed the change made absolutely no difference whatever to the accident rate in Scotland?
Lord Hendy of Richmond Hill (Lab)
The noble Earl is certainly right that the Scottish Government changed the limit. I cannot confirm his analysis of the results. Of course, in determining a new road safety strategy, the Government will not only take evidence but look at what has happened as a consequence of different levels. Whatever he thinks the effect is—and it is a consequence of both penalties and enforcement—the Government will think carefully and act decisively.
Baroness Pidgeon (LD)
My Lords, drug-driving, as well as drink-driving, is deadly. What work are the Government carrying out to look at international developments in roadside detection devices to collect evidence on wider drug misuse while driving, such as the inhalation of nitrous oxide?
Lord Hendy of Richmond Hill (Lab)
The noble Baroness makes a strong point. Drug-driving is as lethal as drink-driving. She will know that there has been some recent publicity about that particular method of drug-driving in London. I am confident that the police and enforcement authorities are working their way through that particular episode. The Government are looking carefully at all the methods of enforcement for driving under the influence of a variety of different drugs.
Baroness Finlay of Llandaff (CB)
My Lords, do the Government recognise that young drivers in particular with any alcohol in their bloodstream at all are at greater risk of other dangerous behaviours, such as not using seatbelts and speeding, and that in their accidents it is very often young people or children who are killed or receive life-changing injuries? Therefore, we should have a message that if you are drinking, you do not have the car keys.
Lord Hendy of Richmond Hill (Lab)
The noble Baroness is right. The primary audience of THINK!, the flagship road safety campaign, is young men aged 17 to 24. The campaign targets priority issues, such as drink-driving and speeding, as well as communicating key policy interventions. There is, of course, a form of restricting novice drivers through the Road Traffic (New Drivers) Act 1995. On acquiring their first full licence, a new driver is on probation for two years and subject to a limit of six penalty points.
Lord Browne of Ladyton (Lab)
My Lords, the noble Earl, Lord Attlee, is perfectly correct that the reduction of the limit in Scotland did not reduce the number of accidents. In fact, at one point the number of accidents was 7% higher after the law was changed than before. However, the same researchers who came to that conclusion suggested that the policy failed because it was not accompanied by sustained, high-visibility enforcement, such as random breath tests. They argued that the law needed that, otherwise it would not deter high-risk offenders who regularly ignore the limit.
Lord Hendy of Richmond Hill (Lab)
I thank my noble friend for that intervention. Of course, enforcement is absolutely necessary. Noble Lords will know that enforcement is a matter for chief police officers, and it is one that they consider very carefully. It is not difficult to agree with my noble friend that rigorous enforcement is entirely needed in these circumstances to effectively police any limit.
Lord Moylan (Con)
My Lords, I come back to the question of drug-driving, raised by the noble Baroness, Lady Pidgeon. Nobody expects there to be available a roadside test for drug-driving that is as effective as a breathalyser for alcohol. However, given that figures from the department show that there are now more deaths from drug-driving than from drink-driving, what in particular is the department doing in terms of training or other equipment that would assist the police in roadside enforcement, which has been shown to be the most effective way of deterring this activity?
Lord Hendy of Richmond Hill (Lab)
There are, of course, a variety of drugs, which need to be tested in different ways. The department is very concerned about drug-driving and will look at it again in the revised road safety strategy. The noble Lord is right that detection is more difficult because of the variety of drugs, but the department is looking carefully at it because the enforcement effort has to be consistent over drugs and drink.
The Lord Bishop of Norwich
My Lords, the Road Victims Trust does very important work in supporting those families that are affected by drink-drivers and drug-drivers. It is a charity that relies mostly on public donations. What could the Minister do to encourage police and crime commissioners to support the work of the Road Victims Trust through their grant-making?
Lord Hendy of Richmond Hill (Lab)
I thank the right reverend Prelate for that question. The work of that trust is very well regarded. I will consider further what we might do with police commissioners to help support its activities and write to him.
Lord Balfe (Con)
My Lords, I am told that the programme for drug testing on drivers is in serious disarray, with many people’s samples not being tested. Has the Minister considered using breath as well as blood tests, and can he look at sorting it out? I am told that there are now thousands of tests outstanding, which have not moved towards prosecution.
Lord Hendy of Richmond Hill (Lab)
I am not an expert in how you test those things, but I am disturbed to hear something that I had not heard previously: the suggestion that the programme is in disarray. I will find out whether the Government believe that it is in disarray and, if it is, what can and will be done about it, and write to the noble Lord.
Lord Brooke of Alverthorpe (Lab)
My Lords, is the Minister aware that the Labour Government were minded to make this change in 1998, in moving from 80 milligrams down to 50 milligrams? We are now the only country in Europe that is still on 80 milligrams; everyone else has gone down to 50 milligrams. The Welsh Government have sought permission to introduce the change. Even if we do not do it for England, can we at least let the Welsh do what they want to do?
Lord Hendy of Richmond Hill (Lab)
The reason why I stated in my Answer that we were deeply considering the concerns raised was because the opportunity of a new road safety strategy gives just the opportunity to consider whether reducing the limit is the right thing to do. That is what we are going to do. In that process, I have heard clearly what many have said today. We will reflect and consider, because this is a really important matter.