(1 day, 23 hours ago)
Westminster HallRead Hansard Text Read Debate Ministerial Extracts
Westminster Hall is an alternative Chamber for MPs to hold debates, named after the adjoining Westminster Hall.
Each debate is chaired by an MP from the Panel of Chairs, rather than the Speaker or Deputy Speaker. A Government Minister will give the final speech, and no votes may be called on the debate topic.
This information is provided by Parallel Parliament and does not comprise part of the offical record
Jess Brown-Fuller (Chichester) (LD)
I beg to move,
That this House has considered Government support for community policing.
It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Ms Lewell. I refer Members to my entry in the Register of Members’ Financial Interests; I am a trustee of Chichester Festival Theatre, which I will be talking about in my contribution.
Today’s debate could not be timelier for my Chichester constituents. Last week, a cast member in “A Midsummer Night’s Dream”, which was on at Chichester Festival Theatre, was followed through the city by a group in balaclavas, riding bikes, shouting abuse and harassing them. Police subsequently arrested a 16-year-old male for a homophobic hate crime. Earlier this week, the prominent comedian and actor Munya Chawawa spoke out about the experiences of the whole cast he had been performing with at CFT, including the racist, homophobic and xenophobic abuse that they had encountered during their six-week stay in my city. It was heartbreaking to hear his and others’ accounts. The hate that they experienced in no way represents the majority view, and is not the Chichester that I know and love.
The fact that that happened in a city that I am constantly told has very low levels of crime should be a cause of concern for all. I have no doubt that the pipeline of hatred fed into our algorithms and screens is feeding this beast. Antisocial behaviour more generally is a growing theme in my work as the Member of Parliament for Chichester.
Victoria Collins (Harpenden and Berkhamsted) (LD)
I thank my hon. Friend for securing the debate. My area also supposedly has a low level of crime, but residents in Tring talk about antisocial behaviour, residents in Harpenden have taken up private security, and Anna from Berkhamsted says she has not seen a police officer for years. My hon. Friend mentioned that online crime and community policing go hand in hand. Does she agree that one way of tackling this is by looking at it holistically and having a proper online crime agency, funded by big tech, so that we can then properly fund and resource community policing?
Jess Brown-Fuller
My hon. Friend pre-empts one of the things that I will call for later in my speech.
Antisocial behaviour is happening in all corners of the country. In Chichester, I am seeing it in the balaclava-clad young men riding e-bikes at terrifying speeds along pedestrian streets or pavements, the people feeling intimidated and threatened when they are out in the evening, the growing use of catapults to harm wildlife or the shoplifting epidemic that plagues our local businesses. It is seen across my constituency, whether in the city centre, the town of Selsey, Westhampnett or the Witterings. Charity venues have told me about young men forcing entry and threatening their volunteers or elderly members of the public who have gone along to watch a film. Another constituent told me that the local bowls club is struggling to retain members after some were hit with ball bearings that were being shot at pigeons.
Today’s debate is on community policing. Much of that antisocial behaviour is driven by a lack of visible policing in areas like mine.
Chris Coghlan (Dorking and Horley) (LD)
I thank my hon. Friend for calling this important debate. In my constituency, we have a serious problem with antisocial motorbike noise from modified exhausts. Does she agree that we should have more public spaces protection orders to help the police enforce against antisocial behaviour, and funding for trials of acoustic cameras to try to stop this?
Jess Brown-Fuller
I thank my hon. Friend for his important intervention. I agree that we need more access to things like PSPOs, but there is an acute challenge in actually policing the PSPOs that we manage to get in place. That was a suggestion that we had to cull the wildlife crime that we were seeing locally, but the police rightly said that a PSPO is effective only if there are police to manage it.
This is not the fault of local police officers—they are diligent, well trained and dedicated to keeping our communities safe, but they are also asked to achieve the impossible. The Government’s neighbourhood policing guarantee makes all the right noises about ensuring that policing is local, but in coastal and rural areas such as mine, it is near impossible to have a meaningful presence in the huge areas they are asked to cover. Selsey has nearly 11,000 residents, and the number nearly doubles in the summer months thanks to tourism, but the area does not magically get any additional policing during that time.
Jessica Toale (Bournemouth West) (Lab)
The hon. Member is painting a vivid picture of her constituents’ experience. I associate myself with her comments about the cast of “A Midsummer Night’s Dream”. No one should be subjected to racist or homophobic abuse anywhere in the country.
On the point about Selsey, Bournemouth West gets more than 10 million visitors in the summer, while Dorset police is one of the lowest funded forces in the area. We get no additional resources, and the funding formula does not adequately take into account the seasonal pressures or the rurality of the rest of the county. Does the hon. Member agree that that needs to change?
Jess Brown-Fuller
The hon. Member is absolutely right to highlight that the funding formula does not reflect the seasonal pressures I see in my coastal constituency.
To describe Selsey to those who have never been there—I look forward to welcoming colleagues in the summer—there is one road in and one road out. Selsey means “seal island”, and it is a very isolated community. There is one police constable and two PCSOs to cover not only Selsey but Sidlesham, Hunston, North Mundham and some harbour villages. On a summer’s day, it would take an officer at least an hour to travel from one end of the patch they are meant to cover to the other, yet they are meant to have an acute understanding of the area and its problems.
I went out last summer with a PC who had responsibility for Selsey. Local residents turned and stared at us as though they had never seen a police officer walking the streets of Selsey. When I asked the PC the last time he had done a walkabout, he had to admit that he had never done one before because of the administrative pressures in managing his workload.
At the other end of my constituency, towards the South Downs national park, farmers are creating WhatsApp chats to support each other in monitoring illegal activity on their land, whether that is equipment and tool theft or hare coursing, because of their isolation and the lack of provision in the Sussex police rural crime team. Why are we in this position? For starters, it is because police forces were recklessly hollowed out, and the number of PCSOs was decimated, by the previous Government.
Deirdre Costigan (Ealing Southall) (Lab)
The hon. Member is making some good points, but does she agree that the cut to police services’ budgets started in 2010 when her party was in government with the Conservatives? We saw a 25% cut across the country, which is what decimated neighbourhood policing in all our constituencies.
Jess Brown-Fuller
I appreciate the hon. Member’s remarks. She is right that this is not a new issue; it has been going on for many years. We are now seeing the effect in every constituency.
Dr Marie Tidball (Penistone and Stocksbridge) (Lab)
The hon. Lady is making an impassioned speech. On the point about cuts to community policing under Conservative and coalition Governments, they are having a direct effect on my constituents. Jane, who lives in Ecclesfield, recently told me of a terrifying experience when multiple electric bikes sped past her on the pavement as she was crossing the road. She told me they were going as fast as cars, with speed limiters disabled. She said that if she had set foot on the pavement a second earlier, she would have been injured or potentially lost her life. Does the hon. Lady agree it is vital to roll out the 13,000 neighbourhood officers by the end of this Parliament, which the Government are working towards, to ensure that the dangerous use of e-bikes is properly tackled, including in my constituency?
Jess Brown-Fuller
I thank the hon. Member for getting on the record how important it is to have visible community policing. That needs to happen as quickly as possible so that the example she gave of her constituent and the fear she must have felt in that moment are addressed or alleviated by knowing that there is a police officer they can contact who understands the local area.
I also recognise that crimes are becoming more complicated. Evidence can come in many forms, with the rise of things such as Ring doorbells, CCTV and the use of WhatsApp chats being part of an evidence base. Models for dealing with the administrative burden differ from police force to police force.
We also have a real challenge with reporting. My local police force makes operational day-to-day decisions entirely predicated on the reporting data, yet I have called a number of times to speak to the police about an incident that is being widely discussed online only to be told that they have no such record of any incident ever occurring. I recognise the frustration that constituents voice to me that if they report, nothing happens anyway—but police forces are now so reliant on data that I cannot impress enough on people how important it is to report crime or antisocial behaviour when they witness it so that the police have an accurate record of where the hotspots are.
Iqbal Mohamed (Dewsbury and Batley) (Ind)
The traditional bobbies on the beat were about more than just policing crime; they were about reassuring communities. The fact that the statistics show a reduction in crime does not necessarily mean that people feel safe. Does the hon. Member agree?
Jess Brown-Fuller
I do agree with the hon. Gentleman. I would also reflect that when I was growing up as a teenager, I knew the name of my local police officer. That certainly deterred me from hanging around at the duck pond late at night, because I knew that if he spotted me, my mum would probably hear about it. That kind of community policing, and the understanding of where the issues are, where people are congregating and where the problems are occurring is so important for police officers. I will come on to that later.
Those are vital points of visibility, but they also provide people with a direct route to access support and to report crimes, especially for those who do not want to navigate complex online forms. A constituent recently told me that they called to report a crime and were told that it was over an hour’s waiting time to speak to somebody and to please go online. They were then asked to provide the exact postcode of where they had seen the incident. They could not move forward because they could not provide the postcode and they just gave up reporting it.
Something else that exacerbates the situation in my constituency is poor decision making at a local level, as in the case of the closure of Chichester custody centre. That contributes to staffing pressures because it keeps police officers off the streets and away from the communities they serve. Since its closure in 2018, officers making an arrest have had to undertake a round trip to Worthing, and in some cases, when that custody centre is full, all the way to Crawley. A recent freedom of information request revealed that just last year there were 1,100 such trips. Even without the traffic on the A27, each journey would take police officers away from Chichester for hours at a time. It is a monumental waste of time and effort, particularly when there is a purpose-built, workable facility in Chichester.
I know the police and crime commissioner would like me to stop talking about that, but I will not, because to me it would be a win-win if it put more police back on the streets. It would increase the time that officers spend out on our streets and provide the credible deterrent that we need. That is why I ask the Minister to outline in her response today the Government’s view on mothballed infrastructure, such as our custody centre, which could be brought back into use to improve community policing.
Beyond that, we need a clear commitment from the Government today to a return to what community policing actually means. When the Government made their health hubs announcement, about a health hub in every community, the definition used was somewhere with a population of 50,000. If something like that were to be used in policing, it would be no comfort to communities such as those in Selsey that I spoke of earlier, or in the Witterings or Pagham, who already see resources spread too thinly. Will the Minister please define “neighbourhood” and how that is adjusted for my rural and coastal communities?
Monica Harding (Esher and Walton) (LD)
My hon. Friend is making a powerful speech. Does she agree that when fully warranted neighbourhood police officers are put into civilian jobs to relieve pressure in places such as call centres, they are doing jobs that civilians should do? I support many of the Government’s priorities on policing, but if the police—whose job is to go on the beat—are pulled into different priorities, whatever they may be, that core policing is not available.
Jess Brown-Fuller
It is right to say that no police officer signed up to be a frontline service person and spend all their time at a desk; they signed up because they wanted to make a real, tangible difference in their communities. We do not need them to be glued to their desks doing burdensome paperwork, because that is not what they were trained for. We can free up officers’ time by, as my hon. Friend the Member for Harpenden and Berkhamsted (Victoria Collins) mentioned, establishing an online crime agency, for example. That would relieve local officers of the burden of complex and time-consuming work around highly sophisticated online crime.
Finally, I want to turn to the wider issue of resourcing, which I am sure many Members will discuss. It has been raised with me through various channels, including by the police and crime commissioner in Sussex. We know how we got here, but decisions made by this Government have contributed to the problem. The consolidation of funding pots has left my residents short-changed, for example. The funding model fails to take proper account of the genuinely rural nature of my constituency, which leaves our residents worse off in funding terms than the national average.
The Government have announced new policies aimed at addressing some of the issues we have discussed, but have not provided the resources needed to implement them. The newly introduced respect orders are an example: breaching them constitutes a criminal offence, which will once again draw on police resource. That requires additional funding to support it, but it is yet to be seen. The issues facing community policing are not primarily about a lack of powers. Any police officer will say that the most powerful tool in their armoury is not the one given to them through the law, but the ability to build relationships, understand the uniqueness of the community they serve and have a presence that serves in itself as a deterrent.
Deirdre Costigan
Many police officers I have spoken to have made exactly the point that they do not have enough powers to deal with antisocial behaviour in particular, and also shoplifting. The hon. Member was good enough earlier to take responsibility for her party’s role in cutting police numbers across the country. Will she similarly take responsibility for the Anti-social Behaviour, Crime and Policing Act 2014, which the Lib Dems brought in with the Conservatives? It got rid of antisocial behaviour orders and the power the police had to take action against antisocial behaviour, and it brought in the £200 threshold for shoplifters, which meant that people could get away with nicking stuff left, right and centre.
Jess Brown-Fuller
I am not confident that the hon. Member’s constituents would appreciate her using her time in this place to talk about things that happened 15 years ago, when Labour has the power of government and the opportunity to do all the things she rightly raises. There are things that need to change, and she now has the opportunity, the keys in her hand and the power to make those changes for her constituents. The police tell me that the issue is about a lack of resource and always being asked to do more with less. I therefore hope that the Minister will grab the bull by the horns and get on top of community policing. We want real community policing for the better.
Emma Lewell (in the Chair)
I am setting a time limit of three minutes for speeches.
Gareth Thomas (Harrow West) (Lab/Co-op)
I congratulate the hon. Member for Chichester (Jess Brown-Fuller) in the usual way on securing this debate. I hope that she will not mind if I focus on the challenges around community policing in suburban areas of the greatest city in the world: London.
I specifically ask the Minister to encourage councils in the suburbs of London to use their powers—the so-called section 92 powers—to directly fund police officers for the local community. A number of London councils are already doing so, and I struggle to understand why Harrow council, which serves my constituents some of the time well and some of the time not quite so well, is not funding police officers similarly. Barking and Dagenham funds four police officers; Greenwich two; Hammersmith and Fulham three; Havering almost three; Islington two; Southwark three; Tower Hamlets 26; Westminster nine. Why does Harrow council not also fund police officers in a very direct way?
I welcome the Government’s commitment to an extra 13,000 additional neighbourhood police. In my constituency, we are fortunate to have seen extra police in Wealdstone and effective neighbourhood police teams across the borough, who have helped to drive down shoplifting—although there is still more work to do on that—and tackle one or two of the key gang crime hotspots in my constituency. I welcome, too, the Met’s successful crackdown on mobile phone theft.
There is still, however, a lot more to do in helping our constituents to feel safe and secure in the key shopping districts serving my constituency. Many councils have their own enforcement officers, but those officers, such as the ones employed by Kingdom in Harrow, have no powers of arrest. They cannot issue criminal charges or on-the-spot fines. They do not have the same powers and are not seen to be as effective as police officers. I hope that the Minister will encourage local authorities such as Harrow to go the extra mile and use the significant uplift in funding from this Government to place some police officers directly in our communities. In the longer term, I would like to see some investment in Harrow’s police station—
Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)
It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Ms Lewell. A big thank you to the hon. Member for Chichester (Jess Brown-Fuller) for setting the scene incredibly well. There is no issue more critical to the peace, stability and everyday safety of our citizens in Northern Ireland than the strength and integrity of our community policing. I have always been a believer in community policing. I supported it when I first became a councillor in 1985 and as an MLA, and I support it now as an MP.
True policing is not done from behind the high walls of a fortified station or from the windows of armoured vehicles. It is done on the streets and on the doorsteps through the painstaking, day-by-day work of building trust with local communities. When community policing thrives, our neighbourhoods thrive. When that foundation is stripped away, the consequences for society are severe. Sometimes, political decisions are taken that affect community policing, which has been an issue in Northern Ireland. I will not go into detail, as it would not be appropriate for this debate, but it has an effect upon community policing.
I think of our superb local commander, Superintendent Johnston McDowell. For years, Superintendent McDowell and his team have been at pains to engage with the community, showing visible leadership and keeping our streets safe. They have done incredible work in managing complex local tensions and taking drugs off our streets with absolute professionalism. They are at the forefront of community policing. They are the people who work with the community. Superintendent McDowell has achieved those successes despite facing a crippling multimillion-pound black hole in the budget.
The Police Service of Northern Ireland needs funding and resources to put boots on the ground, maintain its fleet and preserve neighbourhood teams. More than a cheque book, however, the PSNI needs a Government who understand the fragility of policing by consent. I know that the Minister often goes to Northern Ireland and has direct contact with the Chief Constable and the Justice Minister. Some of the lessons we have learned in Northern Ireland would be helpful to the rest of the country, because our police manage complex issues every day.
I finish with this, because I am conscious that others wish to speak. When the rule of law is compromised by political intervention, local community police officers pay the price on the doorstep. The Government must recognise the damage that political interference causes to community relations, fully back the independence of local policing, and finally deliver the fair and sustainable funding that our police service needs to keep every single community safe. Community policing? I am behind it all the way.
Juliet Campbell (Broxtowe) (Lab)
It is a pleasure to serve under your chairship, Ms Lewell. I thank the hon. Member for Chichester (Jess Brown-Fuller) for securing this debate. I begin by acknowledging the Nottinghamshire police officer who was shot and injured on Sunday while on duty in Nottingham city centre, close to my constituency. My thoughts are with the officer and his family, friends and colleagues, and I wish him a speedy recovery. It is a sobering reminder of the courage that our police officers show every day, and the risks they face while working to keep our communities safe.
In Broxtowe, our local police service has an insufficient number of officers to tackle the crime and antisocial behaviour that is significantly impacting our communities. Even when officers are available, they do not always have the equipment, resources or operational capacity required to intervene safely and effectively. Across Broxtowe, in particular, in Eastwood, Stapleford and Beeston, residents are consistently raising concerns about antisocial behaviour, dangerous illegally modified e-bikes and drug-related crimes.
Nottinghamshire police do a fantastic job in responding to those issues, but can only operate within the staffing and resources available to them. Teams are stretched so thin that they cannot maintain a visible presence in our communities, which is what the public reasonably expect. Police visibility is a deterrent for those who carry out criminal activity, and the lack of a police presence damages public trust. Every community deserves an effective and visible police presence so that residents can feel confident that their concerns are acted on. Will the Minister give an update on the commitment to recruit 13,000 additional neighbourhood police officers and how far we have progressed? In Broxtowe, we need a sustained police force to tackle the rising crime and antisocial behaviour affecting my constituency now.
Emma Lewell (in the Chair)
There is now a reduced time limit of two minutes.
Iqbal Mohamed (Dewsbury and Batley) (Ind)
It is a pleasure to serve under your chairship, Ms Lewell. I am grateful to the hon. Member for Chichester (Jess Brown-Fuller) for securing this debate. Community policing is not simply about responding to crime after it happens; it is about prevention, reassurance and building trust. It is also about having officers and police community support officers who know their communities, understand local concerns and are recognised by residents, shopkeepers, schools and local organisations. When community policing works well, it prevents crime before it takes hold and helps people feel safe in the places where they live, work and shop.
The challenge facing communities across West Yorkshire is significant. Recent crime statistics show that Dewsbury continues to experience crime rates above both West Yorkshire and national averages. As of April this year, the crime rate in Dewsbury was 30% higher than Yorkshire and the Humber and 53% higher than England, Wales and Northern Ireland, with an overall crime rate reported at 125 crimes per 1,000 residents and with violent sexual offences, antisocial behaviour and public order offences being the top crimes. Batley faces similar issues. As of April this year, crime rates in Batley were 4.2% higher than Yorkshire and the Humber and 23% higher than England and Wales, with an overall figure of 114 crimes per 1,000 residents. That is why Government support for neighbourhood policing is so important.
Ayoub Khan (Birmingham Perry Barr) (Ind)
Nearly 70% of police forces have more police officers now than they did in 2010, whereas in my constituency of Birmingham Perry Barr, within the West Midlands area, we have 450 fewer police officers and 500 fewer PCSOs. Does the hon. Member agree that there ought to be some parity of numbers across all police forces?
Iqbal Mohamed
I completely agree that the resources for law enforcement and tackling crime should be equally distributed across our nation; no constituency should be faced with a shortfall compared with others.
Community policing is one of our most effective tools to reduce crime, improve trust and strengthen community cohesion. It is particularly important in diverse towns such as Dewsbury and Batley, where relationships between local people and the police must be built on familiarity, understanding and mutual respect.
My message today is clear: Government support for community policing must be at the level required to continue to reduce crime in every constituency across our country. By investing in visible neighbourhood policing, we can make our town centres safer, support local businesses, reduce crime, tackle antisocial behaviour and restore public confidence.
Amanda Martin (Portsmouth North) (Lab)
It is a pleasure to serve under your chairship, Ms Lewell. I want to spend my time talking about those individuals who make up our police force. Community policing is one of the foundations of effective policing in this country. It is about far more than preventing crime; it is about building trust, strengthening relationships and ensuring that every resident feels safe, supported and connected to those who serve.
Community policing works because it is rooted in local knowledge, and I should know—my dad was once a policeman. However, for too long that connection has been weakened. We need to restore the vital link between police forces and local people, ensuring that officers are visible and present in their neighbourhoods. We need to see police desks on our high streets, so that residents can report crime.
The coalition Government woefully underfunded the police, but Hampshire police has seen an extension to its funding that has meant we have increased our police tally to 114 officers from the 99 that we had. That investment has provided my constituency with named officers for all communities, and I have personally met all of our neighbourhood police. I have been on the beat, and I have worked with them in the community, hand in hand. PCs Smith, Joyce, Middleton, Wetherill, Treend and Goldfinch are the very best of what Portsmouth has, and I want to put on record my sincere thanks for the work they do every day to keep my city safe.
Yesterday, I was delighted to meet the Hampshire Police Federation in Parliament. The pressures that come with the job—the long hours, the difficult incidents and the emotional toll that policing can take—are some of the main things that we need to talk about. Suicide is a huge health issue in the police. We are rightly shocked and appalled when an officer is killed in the line of duty, but many more take their own lives and that is not treated with the same importance. We must ensure that mental health support is available, accessible and embedded throughout a police officer’s career.
Another thing I would like to draw attention to, which has seen a rise in my city, is the doxxing of police officers. It is not okay, and we need to stamp it out.
Emma Lewell (in the Chair)
I remind Members that I need to call the Front Benchers at 5.10 pm; if Members are kind to one another, they may all get in.
Alex Brewer (North East Hampshire) (LD)
It is a pleasure to serve under your chairship, Ms Lewell. I congratulate my hon. Friend the Member for Chichester (Jess Brown-Fuller) on securing this debate today. A fridge dumped in a field, a car taking a bend too fast or an unauthorised development on a local farm—all cause harm, but together they wear down residents’ sense of safety and community.
Those may seem like small countryside crimes, but they are often evidence of organised networks operating across our country. We know that organised groups dump waste where no one is watching, such as in rural Hampshire’s quiet fields, and that same isolation leaves villages vulnerable to illegal developments. In September, one was set up near South Warnborough, and although I visited the site and have been working with the council and the police ever since, it is clear that both organisations lack the enforcement powers to stop dumping, here or anywhere else.
Police are facing severe resource pressures, and that results in particular damage from hare coursing. Hare coursing means chasing and killing hares for entertainment and betting, and that betting is linked to international crime networks. Farmers are left with torn-up land and violent threats, and officers often cannot reach the fields in time. Hare coursers often use stolen vehicles and drive recklessly down country lanes. Dangerous driving is a serious problem across North East Hampshire. Tragically, eight people have died on roads in my constituency this year so far—more than double the national average.
This heartbreaking situation cannot continue. Unfortunately, Hampshire county council always responds to my letters to say, “This location is of low priority for investigation,” despite the fact that residents, councillors and I have raised the same issues again and again. The solution is clear: we need funds for road safety improvements, councils that will implement them and enough policing resource to prosecute dangerous drivers.
Gill German (Clwyd North) (Lab)
It is a pleasure to serve under your chairship, Ms Lewell. For me, community policing is about whether people feel safe in their neighbourhoods, high streets or town centres. It is about public confidence that, when concerns are raised, there will be a visible police presence that knows the community and responds effectively. That is why long-term, consistent funding matters. Trust takes years to build and minutes to lose. Officers and PCSOs need the stability to develop relationships within communities and become familiar faces.
Community policing is also vital in supporting local businesses. Of course, this debate takes place just ahead of USDAW’s Respect for Shopworkers Week, and we all know that retail workers increasingly face abuse, threats and violence simply for doing their jobs. The Crime and Policing Act 2026 is crucial to ensure that the police have the powers they need to tackle low-level offending, and now we must ensure that the powers are matched by the resources and policing presence to enforce them.
I will conclude with the story of an incredible police constable, Jake Hart, who was chasing suspects down the road in Rhyl, when a young boy offered him his bicycle to complete the pursuit. That is not quite the high-tech crime-fighting equipment usually discussed here, but it is a wonderful example of community spirit. More importantly, it showed a young person who trusted the police enough to want to help. It is so important for that trust to be kept—it is invaluable, and it is worth investing in.
Luke Myer (Middlesbrough South and East Cleveland) (Lab)
The Minister knows what I am going to say. Two years ago, I was here warning about the systematic underfunding of Cleveland police, and I have done so continually over the last couple of years. I am grateful to the Prime Minister for the time he made last week to discuss these matters, I am grateful to the Minister for taking the time on many occasions to discuss them, and I am grateful for the mutual aid that we have seen in our region since the tragic deaths of PC Tom Clough and PC Matthew Blades this summer.
The fact is that Cleveland police is one of the most overstretched forces in the country. Since 2010, it has been the hardest hit force in England in terms of cuts to police numbers, and Cleveland has one of the highest recorded crime rates in England and Wales. The chief constable, Victoria Fuller, has estimated that the force needs another 500 officers just to get to the national average. However, as Lauren Somerville, chair of the Police Federation in Cleveland, said when I met her earlier this week, Cleveland is a good force and its officers are proud of their work.
The new police performance system gave the force in Cleveland its highest rating of level 1 and the force in Cleveland has also been recognised as one of the most improved forces in England and Wales. The problem is not the hard-working, brave officers of Cleveland police; the fundamental problem is the police funding formula, which does not adequately reflect the scale of crime, deprivation and demand in Cleveland. I urge the Government to overhaul that formula at pace and to inject an emergency in-year funding increase so that we can tackle the challenges we have in our region.
Olivia Bailey (Reading West and Mid Berkshire) (Lab)
I thank the hon. Member for Chichester (Jess Brown-Fuller) for securing this debate.
I am the proud daughter of a police officer, and one of the things my dad always instilled in me was the importance of community policing: people knowing who their local neighbourhood officer is, building a relationship with them, and seeing them out and about in their local streets. My constituents also share that view.
I am really pleased that as a result of the actions that this Labour Government have taken, there are now more neighbourhood police officers in my community and they are making a big difference. I say a big thank you in particular to Inspector Betsy Palmer, PC Joe Meritt, Sergeant Andy Murray and PCSO Fraser Sinclair, who I met recently and who do a brilliant job, day in, day out, to keep our communities safe. However, they told me that one thing they spend far too much of their time on is tackling the scourge of illegal bikes.
I am fed up, and my constituents are fed up with having to pull children out of the way in a park when a bike or a Sur-Ron zooms past them at 30mph, or having to slam on the brakes while driving down the street because someone in a balaclava is doing a wheelie in front of them It is simply not good enough. I was very grateful to the Minister for her recent correspondence with me on this issue and I am grateful to the Government for giving the police additional powers to seize and destroy those bikes, but we need to do more.
I ask the Minister—if she would not mind—to think again and to tell me today both how we can do more to regulate the sale of those bikes and close the loopholes that mean those Sur-Rons can be ridden by people gleefully around the streets of my constituency, and how we can support our local police to tackle this problem.
Connor Naismith (Crewe and Nantwich) (Lab)
Community policing is fundamental to public confidence in our police service. When people know their local officers and PCSOs, see them on their streets and can raise concerns directly with them, communities feel safer and more confident that crime and antisocial behaviour will be tackled.
First, I thank the officers—and, importantly, the staff, who do not often enough get the recognition they deserve—in the Crewe local policing unit. I thank all the warranted officers, PCSOs and staff in the LPU for the work they do to keep our communities safe.
We have seen a welcome increase of four additional neighbourhood officers in the Crewe LPU, working across my constituency, which will go a long way to tackling some of the problems that we have. However, significant challenges remain; many of them have already been covered in this debate, including endemic antisocial behaviour, which too often is treated as low-level offending, but needs to be taken on and taken out at the roots.
In the brief time that I have left to speak, I also acknowledge the important work being undertaken by Cheshire police in relation to the investigation concerning allegations against members of the Ahmadi Religion of Peace and Light, and I just ask that consideration be given to urgent, unexpected and complex investigations that police sometimes have to respond to, and to the extra burden that those place on police forces. I welcome the fact that I have a meeting with the Minister next week to discuss that issue, but, if she could say something about it when she responds to the debate, that would also be really welcome.
Ben Maguire (North Cornwall) (LD)
It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Ms Lewell. I congratulate my hon. Friend the Member for Chichester (Jess Brown- Fuller) on securing this important debate. I pay tribute to my excellent policemen and women, who do a fantastic job in keeping us safe.
We Liberal Democrats have long called for a return to proper community policing, and the visible, trusted police presence that it provides for our constituents. During the previous Conservative Government’s programme of cuts, local community policing across our country was torn apart. We have heard from some Government Members who may need educating on the concept of a coalition in which the junior partner makes up 15% of the MPs, and so does not have total control over every Government policy. Since Labour came into government, more than 1,000 officers have been cut from our streets. I am sure that the hike in national insurance contributions has not helped that at all. My force, Devon and Cornwall, has faced a 50% cut to its recruitment budget.
The politicisation of the police service through the introduction of police and crime commissioners has done untold further damage to that trust. I was glad when, in November last year, the Government embraced a long-running Lib Dem campaign by announcing the scrapping of PCCs entirely. That will save the British taxpayer an estimated £100 million a year, £20 million of which can be funnelled into neighbourhood policing.
For rural areas such as my North Cornwall constituency, neighbourhood and community policing focus heavily on tackling the scourge of rural crime. I have prioritised the fight against rural crime on behalf of my constituents by introducing the Rural Crime (Strategy) Bill and consistently pushing the Government to develop a full strategy to address it countrywide. For many countryside communities up and down the country, thefts of farm machinery, tools and livestock can be devastating. At a time when family farms are being hammered by rising costs, a botched sustainable farming incentive payment system, a rise in inheritance tax, bluetongue outbreaks and a severe drought, the loss of just one all-terrain vehicle or expensive piece of farm machinery can set them back tens of thousands of pounds. Sadly, many of my farming constituents have told me that they have altogether lost confidence that such crimes will be dealt with seriously, so they no longer report them.
It is clear that many forces still lack specialists to deal specifically with these types of rural crimes. The Home Office is planning £365,000 of funding for the entire country’s rural crime units, which works out at around £8,500 pounds on average per police force. From my own work on the Home Affairs Committee, I have had the opportunity to quiz officials on police visibility in communities, and specifically on the effectiveness of reopening front desks. I was told by one police official from Buckinghamshire that the reopening of a police station in a town there saw a 19% overall reduction in crime, not just because people reported crimes more, but because it gave the local community a more visible police presence. I have been requesting that Launceston, in my constituency, has its police station’s front desk reopened, but Devon and Cornwall’s police and crime commissioner has refused time and again to do so. That refusal is especially disappointing when the cost is around £100,000 and the cost of suspended Devon and Cornwall police officers is currently around £1.3 million a year.
We have clear opportunity to bring back this policing visibility and confidence, yet the requests of the community are being ignored. One way to ensure that frontline officers are left to focus on the communities they serve is to prevent them from being pulled away for other types of crime that fester online. Our Liberal Democrat proposal is to establish an online crime agency, funded by £250 million per year—a levy on the big tech and AI firms that too often enable this online crime to take place. Our local officers would be freed up and sent back out to our towns and high streets, where they belong, combating thefts, shoplifting and the other types of local crime that hon. Members have mentioned.
Will the Minister commit to ensuring that every community across Britain has a police counter by using spaces such as libraries, shopping centres and town halls and reopening front desks where feasible, and to establishing an online crime agency so that deepfakes, revenge porn and other online crimes are tackled by specialists? Will she also ensure that the proposed police reorganisation does not further reduce community policing, and build on the NPCC rural and wildlife crime strategy, to tackle the scourge of rural crime?
Matt Vickers (Stockton West) (Con)
It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Ms Lewell. I congratulate the hon. Member for Chichester (Jess Brown-Fuller) on securing this important debate, and I thank all Members who have contributed. I pay tribute to the officers, PCSOs, special constables and police staff who serve our communities, including the teams at Cleveland police and Durham constabulary who serve the people of Stockton West.
Cleveland has the highest crime rate of any police force area in England and Wales and the highest homicide rate in the country, yet in the year to March, Cleveland police lost 17 officers. Our police and crime commissioner called out a £2.4 million shortfall and rightly pointed out that funding is based on population, not crime. If the Government’s commitment to community policing is to mean anything, it must mean having more officers, not fewer, in areas where crime is highest. The Minister will point to the neighbourhood policing guarantee, but moving police officers between roles is not the same as having more of them.
In March 2024, the previous Conservative Government left police numbers at the highest level on record.
Connor Naismith
I anticipated that the shadow Minister might want to have a knockabout on numbers. Does he not acknowledge that the previous Conservative Government were replacing the 20,000 police officers that they had cut, and that the police uplift programme created perverse incentives that meant that many of those replacement officers ended up behind desks? That is not where we want them to be, is it?
Matt Vickers
We could have a very long debate on that: we could talk about the economic damage done by and the public finance carnage under the previous Labour Government; we could talk about the tough choices that had to be made in 2010; and eventually, we would arrive at 2024, when there were 147,746 full-time equivalent police officers on the streets. His constituents and mine would have liked to see that number continue to go upwards, but it did not, did it? Today, there are nearly 1,900 fewer officers.
This year, the Government scrapped overall headcount targets, making funding conditional on neighbourhood numbers alone. If neighbourhood teams grow while the workforce shrinks, those officers have to come from somewhere, and too often, that is from response teams. Those are the officers who come when a resident—the woman whose ex-partner is hammering on the door or the family woken by someone breaking in—rings 999. Neighbourhood policing matters, but it cannot come at the expense of the officers who turn up in someone’s hour of need. That is why the Conservative party would recruit 10,000 extra officers, deploy hotspot patrolling in the 2,000 highest-crime neighbourhoods and roll out immediate justice, so that those who wreck a public space are seen to put it right.
The problem is getting worse. The crime survey for England and Wales shows that last year, 40.9% of people experienced or witnessed antisocial behaviour, which represents a statistically significant increase. Tackling antisocial behaviour is a pillar of the Government’s guarantee, but, by their own measure, things are moving in the wrong direction. I have three questions for the Minister. First, will the Government publish force-by-force figures for how many new neighbourhood police officers were moved from response roles? Secondly, will the changes mean that residents will wait longer for help when they ring 999?
Thirdly, on Cleveland, I welcome the Minister’s engagement with the leadership of our force, but warm words in meetings will not reassure my constituents, so will she explain why the force tackling the highest crime rate in the country has 17 fewer officers than it did a year ago? Will she commit to ensuring that by the end of this Parliament, Cleveland police will have more police officers than it does today? My constituents are not asking about 2024 or 2010. They are asking about the year ahead, and they deserve a straight answer. Our constituents judge policing by whether they see an officer on their street, whether their call is answered and whether the person who wrecked their neighbourhood faces consequences. By that test, there is much more to do. I look forward to hearing the Minister’s response.
The Minister for Policing and Crime (Sarah Jones)
It is a pleasure to serve under your chairship, Ms Lewell. I congratulate the hon. Member for Chichester (Jess Brown-Fuller) on securing what is a very important debate on a very important topic.
As my hon. Friend the Member for Clwyd North (Gill German) said, community policing is about whether people feel safe. It is our first duty as parliamentarians to make sure that our constituents feel, and are, safe. Community policing is the frontline of that work, so I appreciate the opportunity to debate this topic.
I, too, express my sorrow at the homophobic, racist and xenophobic abuse described by the hon. Member for Chichester. Obviously, we are all very sorry for that and hope that justice will be done in those cases. I also join many Members who have thanked the police and police staff, who are often forgotten. We should talk about them more often. I want to add my thanks to all the police officers and staff who I have met and worked with.
We had some really good contributions. My hon. Friend the Member for Harrow West (Gareth Thomas) asked whether the local council should pay for policing. The council in Harrow should do exactly what my hon. Friend tells them to do. That would be a very good starting point, and I definitely always recommend that.
The hon. Member for Strangford (Jim Shannon) spoke about Northern Ireland, and as he knows I met the Chief Constable a couple of weeks ago. I was pleased to talk to him and he is obviously doing a very good job in very difficult circumstances.
To my hon. Friend the Member for Broxtowe (Juliet Campbell), I say that I spoke to the deputy chief constable following the incident in Nottingham and the awful shooting of a police officer. I will keep in touch with them about what has happened and how that officer, as well how his team, are doing. They were all very affected by what has happened and I know that has been deeply worrying for people.
My hon. Friend the Member for Portsmouth North (Amanda Martin) talked about doxxing of police, which we talked about earlier in the week and which is very worrying. We are very keen to hear from the Fed, or others, about what more we can do as the Government to help in that space.
My hon. Friend the Member for Middlesbrough South and East Cleveland (Luke Myer) was right to talk about the things that he did. The Fed rep that he spoke to has done some really good work to make that case. He is right that, on lots of measures, the force is judged as being really good. I know the frustration and we have talked about it before. We are working on the funding imbalance that follows from that.
My hon. Friend the Member for Reading West and Mid Berkshire (Olivia Bailey) talked about e-bikes. They are a scourge. As she says, we have passed a law that means that the police have more powers to seize, which is good, but I am having conversations with hon. Members about what more we can do in that space. It is becoming very problematic. I was talking to my hon. Friend the Member for Loughborough (Dr Sandher) today, who has been campaigning on that issue quite a lot, and we were talking about some of the struggles and some of the potential solutions.
Amanda Martin
There was a Westminster Hall debate this morning on e-scooters and e-bikes, and there were over 20 contributions from constituency MPs. The Minister is right to say that it is everywhere across the country.
Sarah Jones
Yes, it is a problem everywhere.
This week I have been to Hemel Hempstead, Southall and Newcastle-under-Lyme in a bit of an antisocial behaviour tour in advance of our respect orders coming into force on Monday. Everybody in those three areas, and everybody I speak to, is concerned. There are things that the Department for Transport needs to do and there are things that the Home Office needs to do. I am in the space of looking at what we can do from a policing point of view. I was interested to hear from my hon. Friend the Member for Loughborough that their public spaces protection order has rules about the wearing of balaclavas as well. That is another debate that crosses into the e-bike one, as well as into other areas. That is an interesting innovation that they have introduced.
Jess Brown-Fuller
In my community in Selsey, which I spoke of earlier, Amazon was recommending cut-price balaclavas recently, which I think speaks to the problem. The Minister mentioned the seizing of e-bikes. It is brilliant that the police now have the power to seize; what they do not have is the power to catch the people on the e-bikes, especially the souped-up ones. A spray is being trialled that the police could use from a far distance, and it creates almost a fingerprint on an e-bike that is being used for antisocial behaviour. It is not being used in Sussex, but I know it is being used in police forces around Sussex. Would the Minister look at whether that is working well for those police forces and then encourage its roll-out in other areas?
Sarah Jones
We talked about this briefly in a meeting I was in earlier. We discussed what more we can do and the new technologies that can help us to follow some of these bikes and some of the individuals who are stealing them or using them in an illegal way. I am very interested in that. As the hon. Member said, there are already things being done in some parts of the country.
One big reason for our reform programme is that we have this frustration: if something is being done in some parts of the country, why is it not being done in others? We need more consistency, so that we have good practice everywhere. I want to point out the reforms we have introduced already as a Government. Some £2 billion extra has gone into policing, including to cover the cost of the national insurance rise, which was raised.
Ayoub Khan
Our police and crime commissioner, Simon Foster, does tremendous community engagement work. However, he cannot do much reassurance because we have a £41 million funding gap and 1,000 fewer officers than in 2010. Can the Minister tell us what extra police will be given to West Midlands, and can the Government bridge that gap?
Sarah Jones
I reassure the hon. Member that, over the last two years, West Midlands police has had millions more in funding than it had the year before. This Government have given West Midlands police more money year on year since we came to power.
As every Member will know, I hope, we are prioritising a number of areas. The first is serious crime and knife crime. We have seen massive improvements in the area of knife crime, particularly knife murders, since we came to power. We are prioritising neighbourhood policing, and we have 4,000-odd extra neighbourhood police in our communities, which is beginning to make a difference. We have passed the Crime and Policing Act 2026, which among other things will introduce respect orders on Monday. That is a new power for police to use to go after persistent offenders in antisocial behaviour.
We are calling time on those people. In some circumstances, we know who they are, and we all know from our constituents the trouble that we have with them. When I was in Hemel Hempstead today, the police force had a list of 30 people who they are going to put in to the courts to get a respect order on, and they are hoping to go to court on Monday—on the first day that these orders are introduced. It is a powerful tool for the police to use, which I want to see used widely.
Deirdre Costigan
I thank the Minister for coming to Ealing Southall yesterday as part of the roll-out of respect orders. Does she agree that they will mean the police will be able to actually arrest people, rather than just move them on from one end of the town to the other?
Sarah Jones
I do. I very much enjoyed visiting my hon. Friend’s constituency.
I am aware of the short time I have left. I wanted to touch on all kinds of things—seasonality and rurality are two things that we are looking at in the review of the funding formula. In the reform of policing, we will set up a national police service for things such as organised and online crime, so that we will have a place where these things are done and the local police can focus on what they need to do.
New tech will mean less bureaucracy and more time out on our streets. We are working at pace to make sure we deliver the reforms that people want and expect, but I will come back to the starting point, which is that there is nothing more important than good community policing. It makes people feel safe, it makes people safe and it prevents crime, and this Government are committed to increasing, not diminishing, that resource.
Jess Brown-Fuller
I thank Members for contributing to this really important debate. I want to put on the record that we have a local community warden who is employed by Chichester district council. His name is Jimmy Upton. He used to be a police officer; he spent many years being a community police officer. When he retired, he decided that he could still make a fundamental difference to his community, and now he is a community warden doing exactly the thing that he actually went into policing to do: supporting communities. They really are the best of us, and I am very grateful to all of those who work in our police forces to keep us safe.
Question put and agreed to.
Resolved,
That this House has considered Government support for community policing.