Live Debate: Lords Chamber

Urgent Question Repeat: Bounties placed on Hong Kong democracy activists resident in the UK by the authorities of the Peoples Republic of China and Hong Kong

My Lords, this is a gross infringement of British sovereignty. The Chinese Communist Party and expressive regime have rested over 100 people in Hong Kong and politically motivated charges. In the other place the Security Minister claimed concerns have been

11:54

Lord Davies of Gower (Conservative)

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raised at every opportunity, so can the noble Lord the Minister confirm whether this specifically has been raised with Chinese officials? And raised with Chinese officials? And will the noble Lord the Minister confirm whether the government has made formal diplomatic made formal diplomatic representations to China regarding this blatant extraterritorial this blatant extraterritorial threat? And will he commit to placing China on the enhanced of the foreign influence registration scheme?

11:54

Lord Hanson of Flint, The Minister of State, Home Department (Labour)

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scheme? In answer to the noble Lord's first two questions, the answer is yes, and yes. Representations have been made by my right honourable from the Foreign Secretary at the highest level, and ministers who have visited China have made representations also. We will continue to make representations on this matter because it is a serious issue which the government needs to ensure the Chinese know that there is widespread concern in the populous and in the government as a whole. With regard to the fares scheme, he will know that we announced yesterday that the state of Iran was being included in the scheme -- the first scheme.

It will become live during the summer and we will keep under review all nations but at the moment our announcement but at the moment our announcement has only been in relation to Iran.

11:55

Lord Purvis of Tweed (Liberal Democrat)

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I have met somebody who has a bounty on them. This is clear because national repression. It is not just seeking to terminate the person who has the bounty placed on them, which is a clear breach of our law, but it is also designed to intimidate family members and the wider community back in Hong Kong. Transnational repression needs to be rooted out, totally, from United Kingdom. And therefore there should be no encouragement to any of the state bodies which currently could have preferential access to key parts of the British economy, especially financial services.

So will the Home Office minister make sure that those ministers who will be visiting Beijing, seeking wider trade and investment with China, are fully aware that any state enterprises that have any involvement, especially in a potential new embassy in London, will be committing only domestic legislation offences but also transnational repression which is an international crime.

11:56

Lord Hanson of Flint, The Minister of State, Home Department (Labour)

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I am grateful to the noble Lord's comments. He will know that UK Government will challenge the Chinese authorities where we think that there are transgressions and on this occasion that is one of them will stop we will also cooperate with the Chinese authorities where we believe that we can work together, and we will also trade with the Chinese authorities when we believe that is an appropriate thing to do. The points he made are extremely valid. And with regard to the embassy there is a planning application that is in, and that will be determined from the planning laws, as any other planning abdication would be.

It will be with my colleagues in the Department of local government. We have also submitted from the Home Office a security note on that as part of the planning application and that will be considered in due course. It may reassure the noble Lord that we take this matter extremely seriously. And representations have been made and representations have been made and -- At the highest level.

11:58

Lord Alton of Liverpool (Crossbench)

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The inconveniences and irritations experienced by seven sanctioned parliamentarians including Baroness Kennedy and myself are like nothing in comparison with bounties based on the heads of pro-democracy advocates like the young woman Chloe Chung, and now letters delivered to the neighbours, offering £100,000 for information on them, or for delivering those pro-democracy activists to the PRC embassy. The Joint Committee on Human Rights is currently conducting an inquiry into transnational repression. Would be interested to know what laws have been broken, if a dissident or someone sanctioned by the CCP, is dragged into a PRC embassy or consulate which has really happened in Manchester, so this is not simply academic, what action if any would be taken as Mac would it be illegal? With the diplomats be immune? What powers would be used to recover

11:59

Lord Hanson of Flint, The Minister of State, Home Department (Labour)

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those who would have been seized? those who would have been seized? Let me say to that noble Lord first of all, I just reiterate what I said to the Liberal Democrat and His Majesty's Government, we condemn Majesty's Government, we condemn this action. We have seen the report of letters being delivered to of letters being delivered to neighbours. Were trying to verify the source of those reports and the the source of those reports and the source of that information but the police are certainly looking into this matter and are liaising with those who are in receipt of letters and the police will independently of government assess whether action needs to be taken under any legislation that we have got to date.

I hope, and I hope to reassure the noble Lord, and the events of this circumstances that he has described, that the police and the Home Office would make investigations as to whether illegal acts have been undertaken. And it is not for the Home Office but it would be for the police to investigate independently in the event of that. But I hope, and I say this again, the representations we have made, have been very forcefully made, and the Chinese authorities will recognise those representations and we will monitor the situation we will monitor the situation

12:00

Lord Garnier (Conservative)

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Will the noble Lord accept the difference between accepting good examples under British law and the fact it can be to uncomfortable conclusions? In the event that has been indicated that Chinese diplomats pretty well and hide behind diplomatic immunity, will this government make it abundantly clear, not only to the Chinese government, that this is unacceptable but that they will be publicly condemned by the government so that our citizens door how much we disapprove and that the diplomats expelled?

12:01

Lord Hanson of Flint, The Minister of State, Home Department (Labour)

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The noble Lord is tempting me to look at scenarios that may or may look at scenarios that may or may not take place. Any attempt by a foreign power to intimidate, harass, or harm individuals in the UK will not be tolerated and this government will reflect on any actions like that over and above the visitations we have made. we have made. we have made.

12:01

Lord Walney (Crossbench)

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There is attention between the words the Minister rightly gives us what has been delivered to the Chinese nation. For example, the decision by the government on returning from Beijing to relax planning restrictions on the new intended Chinese embassy, presumably, which houses and certainly plays a role in much of the activity that is being complained about. complained about.

12:02

Lord Hanson of Flint, The Minister of State, Home Department (Labour)

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The noble Lord will now and I know that he knows this but the final decision is yet to be made on the Chinese embassy and the Secretary of State for Transport government has an independent role in making the final decision but he will also know that the Foreign Secretary and Home Secretary sent a joint letter to the Planning Inspector on January 14 at the Home Office is considering the issues with relation to the issue.

I cannot determine the application but I assured him the points he is raising are be considered in that mechanism by government officials who have to make the decision. make the decision.

12:03

Baroness Kennedy of The Shaws (Labour)

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Is the Minister aware that the joint committee On Human Rights is receiving evidence on transnational repression but the lawyers acting on the international issues that come out of that case are receiving incredible intimidation with threats of rape, threats towards their children, and members of the council have been subjected to the most appalling forms of intimidation. I wonder if this is something that the government is aware of and what they will do about the intimidation of these representatives.

these representatives.

12:04

Lord Hanson of Flint, The Minister of State, Home Department (Labour)

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I reiterate to the House that any attempt by any foreign power to intimidate, harass, harm individuals or communities in the UK will not be tolerated and if my noble friend wishes to supply details, we will examine them.

12:04

Statement: Iranian state threats

Questions on a statement made in the House of Commons on Tuesday, in the House of Commons on Tuesday, March 4, on Iranian state threats. March 4, on Iranian state threats.

12:04

Lord Davies of Gower (Conservative)

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My Lords, I thank the Minister for reading this statement and I welcome the government's recognition of the threat posed by Iran to national security. The escalation of Iranian state-backed blocks and the targeting of Jewish civilians and journalists is deeply concerning and I joined the ministers in paying tribute to intelligence services and enforcement officers who work tirelessly to thwart these threats and while we welcome the measures, I must ask if they go far enough. The danger posed by the Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corps is clear and escalating as Iran has supported the illegal invasion of Ukraine by Putin.

Hive the government acted enough? The Foreign Secretary has enough? The Foreign Secretary has ruled out further action. Is it now acknowledged that prescribing the IRGC is a necessary step? If not, can he describe how the measures announced today will be effective in tackling this threat? I welcome the decision to place the Iranian state in the Foreign Influence Registrations but given the well- known use of proxies by the Iranian regime, how will this be enforced effectively? Can the noble Lord provide assurances that those who have failed to register will be swiftly prosecuted? The role of Iranian-linked organised crime networks is a further issue and the government has placed further sanctions in action against these networks but we need action.

Will the Minister commit to a specific timeline for additional sanctions and crackdowns on the IRGC financial networks in the UK? And while it is right to be thrown -- we strengthen abilities, we must also do this internationally. Can the Minister outline what further steps the government will take to enhance security measures with our partners to tackle Iranian aggression? The threats we face from hostile states require more than words, they require action. The government must match the rhetoric with decisive steps to protect Britain from Iranian intimidation and ensure those responsible for such threats will face the full force of the law.

will face the full force of the law.

12:07

Lord Purvis of Tweed (Liberal Democrat)

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My Lords, just last week in the chamber we debated the unacceptable chamber we debated the unacceptable practice of the Iranian regime holding joint nationals in the tension and my noble friend the baroness spoke passionately in that baroness spoke passionately in that debate. These benches support what the government is doing and how it is doing it and we join with others to thank the work of our intelligence services and law and order community, the men and women who work every single day to keep safe.

Of course, we need constant diligence. We have seen the unacceptable practice of intimidation of BBC journalist Sandy unacceptable practice of those -- BBC journalists and we have seen the unacceptable practices of those being targeted by the regime. These measures are welcome. Can I ask a couple of questions to the Minister, because I think we are all aware that given the economic crisis in Iran and the tense political situation, it is likely the regime will be seen to export further attempts for the stabilising and disrupting neo-Nipper currencies and countries like the UK.

-- near- neighbour. The issues are frightening, especially for women and girls. Since this is a Home Office issue, can I ask not to have a closed mind in respect of routes for those persecuted in Iran who are seeking refuge in the UK. There is no safe and legal route and the question of supporting these people in that aspect. The first duty of government is to protect those within the UK. We have seen the use of proxies. We have seen the use of agencies.

We have seen the use of other countries' nationals. I want to act about the implementation of the enhanced scheme as well as the policing. How vigilant are we on doors from other countries who are paid by the Iranian regime to carry out actions on their behalf? It is not the case that it will always be Iranian nationals carrying out this work and my question with regard to the sanctions regime, we have a country-wide regime which is welcome but the question I asked when we scrutinise that regime was regarding scrutinise that regime was regarding those other bodies which the Iranians are paying for crew are nationals of other countries and that is a grey area when it comes to our legislation so I would be grateful if the Minister could reassure us that nationals of other countries acting on behalf of the Iranian regime will also be covered by this.

12:10

Lord Hanson of Flint, The Minister of State, Home Department (Labour)

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I am grateful for the question from Davies and from Lord Purvis. I will try to answer them as best I can. I think it does send a strong signal for the government, the Opposition, and the Liberal Democrats that there is broad support for the measures announced today. Iran is the first country we are placing into the scheme and I said in answer to an earlier question that this will be operational by the summer of this year and these will we have sent by announcing that Geoffrey with my right honourable friend Dan Jarvis and today is extremely important.

Those who subsequently proved not to have registered when the scheme goes live in the summer will face the potential penalty of a 5-year jail sentence for failure to register and that is a stiff sentence which, again, is outside of my agreement and it will be for the criminal justice system to pursue but it is a strong message to those who wish to do this country harm and are sponsored by the Iranian regime. I should say to the noble Lord that will be significant new training for all frontline police officers and we will explore further sanctions against criminal groups linked to Iran and this goes to the point mentioned by Lord Purvis of Tweed as one criminal gang group have already been sanctioned and that is sending a strong signal but we will look at further sanctions against criminal groups linked to Iran and that could include more potential measures including travel bans.

We want to make sure that not just Iranian interference in the UK in whatever form it takes, by state, by proxy, is examined and clamped down upon and will certainly be taking those measures and the point that the noble Lord have mentioned are ones we are cognizant of. He mentioned safe and legal writs and there are safe and legal writs which are operational but this country is looking at it in terms of asylum and it will be examined in terms of asylum policy on the whole.

We are also looking at issues with the terrorism reviewer, Jonathan Hall, and we've asked them to look at antiterrorism laws and requesting of prescription which is an issue that we never rule out but today I cannot comment on individual but it is always an option for government in these areas. I welcome, if I may, the broad support and I hope that we will monitor this and as the scheme goes live in the summer, will monitor the impact, those that register, and, in the event of anybody who does not register, those who do not, and we can monitor the effectiveness of this.

It is put in place for the simple reason that we cannot accept the level of activity by the Iranian regime in the UK against both Iranian citizens here and British interests and that is why we have introduced this measure yesterday and I'm pleased that highs yesterday and I'm pleased that highs the support of the main parties in the House. the House.

12:14

Lord Beamish (Labour)

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I welcome the statement. My noble friend, like me, was on the Internal Scrutiny Committee when we produced the Russian report in 2020 and this scheme was one of the recommendations from that. My noble friend said we can look to the police forces to rule out the information but can I ask what is

12:15

Lord Hanson of Flint, The Minister of State, Home Department (Labour)

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being done in the UK to ensure they are aware can be protected from are aware can be protected from He is right that it came out of the information from the security information from the security committee of which I was a proud member. And we are now developing member. And we are now developing the implementation of the scheme. It the implementation of the scheme. It does require significant infrastructure investment. It has been delayed under the end of the previous government and now has got added energy from my right honourable friend, Dan Jarvis, the Minister and myself to make sure it's onstream for the summer of this year.

It is therefore important that we send two strong messages that one, we are standing up to intimidation and criminal activity by the Iranians regime, but secondly, that the people and the desperate need-to-know that that desperate need-to-know that that And we need to ensure that those who qualify are aware of the scheme and that will be a major part of the communication strategy in the post Easter period.

12:16

Lord Polak (Conservative)

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I may declare my interest, to go with the noble Lord Lord Alton of Liverpool, the other two people prescribed by the radiant regime and have been for the last couple of years, and I pay tribute to the authorities who have helped us and advised us. I welcome this statement. And I think it's important. And there's a part in the statement where I don't speak on behalf of the Jewish community but I want to thank the government for the continued support for the productive that the community needs.

In the statement, it statement says since the National Crime Agency will target those who assist the IRGC and others to log their money. I just fell to understand what more the IRGC needs to do -- to launder their money. We have raised this many times. My noble friend of the frontbench raised today. I even voted with the Labour Party on the Trade Bill, when Lord Coaker had an amendment to prescribe the IRGC, which he did in opposition. And I supported him.

As did others. What is it that they have to do to be prescribed? prescribed?

12:17

Lord Hanson of Flint, The Minister of State, Home Department (Labour)

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I understand where the noble Lord Silver bullet in that sense the organisation doesn't disappear just because prescription has taken place. I hope the noble Lord will bear with us on this, we have asked the independent review of terrorism to look at the legislation generally but also the issues to do with prescription in the wider context. Can I just say I welcome his comments on the Jewish community. One of the drivers for this is to ensure that members of the Jewish community have security against states that are made to them.

And he would know that there is around £80 million as well-being provided up to 2027 currently, to give security measures, where members of the Jewish community feel they need to do that in places of worship and I think that again is a secondary but a very important measure that the government are putting in place to ensure people feel safe in their communities. communities.

12:18

My Lords, it has been reported that President Putin has been making over tones to the Iranians wishing to act as a broker in the relationship with President Trump. Would I urge him that he talks to his colleagues in the Foreign & Commonwealth Office to ensure that our parties to work together to defend democracy do not ignore thisof threat.

12:19

Lord Hanson of Flint, The Minister of State, Home Department (Labour)

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I'm grateful to my noble friend, who I showed time on the intelligent security committee with. The situation with regard to the President Putin is one which the government continues to keep under review. I will draw her comments to the attention of both the Prime Minister and the Foreign Secretary. It's extremely important that we understand the Iranians threat but we also assess and understand the threat from Russia and therefore I take on board her comments and will feed those into that system.

12:19

Baroness Kennedy of The Shaws (Labour)

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I'm asking a question of the Minister, and I do so respectfully, and I commend the government for the steps it is taking just now and I think it's a move forward. I wanted to ask this question, if we were to prescribe the Revolutionary Guard, is it the position that we would not be able to maintain an embassy in Iran? Because it's not as though, I'm in Sweden, Canada, the United States, hospital countries have prescribed but is it linked to the presence of an embassy or for reasons of intelligence that maybe, that may be always things that governments have to think about? The second question I have relates to targeted sanctions.

Because if it's not possible for us, for all manner of very sensitive reasons, to actually prescribe, and we may be the conduit for conversations that are difficult, but may I just ask this, can't the leadership of the Revolutionary Guard be based on our targeted sanctions list? targeted sanctions list?

12:21

Lord Hanson of Flint, The Minister of State, Home Department (Labour)

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Again I'm grateful to my noble friend. Can I assure her that the decision to undertake any prescription at any time is a matter for the government at that time based on intelligence, security threats and on a range of other matters that we will take into account. I'm not in the decision today to confirm or deny that prescription could happen. It's a matter for us to make a judgement on an moment we keep that under review. We continually keep it under review.

But I also say to my noble friend that we have already brought charges against those conducting activity for and on behalf of foreign states acting within the UK. We continually keep this matter under review. It's not something we advertise head of prescription either and I hope that

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my noble friend can accept that point. May I, it's just that we know...

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May I, it's just that we know... And I not allowed to... To the rules prescribed me from...

12:22

Baroness Brinton (Liberal Democrat)

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prescribed me from... My noble friends raised the issue about safe in legal routes, there is about safe in legal routes, there is one particularly pernicious act of the Iranians 30s where they continue to go after families of people they have executed, and they are fleeing abroad as a result. Now finding themselves under extraterrestrials reach as well. Can the noble Lord the Minister say whether or not for those families, if they are arriving after the execution of one of their family, they will immediately be given support by the police and security services because it is clear they are still being targeted.

12:22

Lord Hanson of Flint, The Minister of State, Home Department (Labour)

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We will keep that review support under review and certainly we would ensure that those individuals who are resident in the United Kingdom, if there is evidence of threat, that would examined by police forces. Any attempt by any foreign power to intimidate, harass, harm individuals or communities in the UK will not be tolerated but we -- but will be thoroughly investigated. As you would expect, Home Office officials will work closely with other government departments to ensure that UK residents are safe and secure and also have separate taskforces currently reviewing the UK's response to the issues of transnational repression, develop our understanding of the issue and ensure strong systemwide responses are there.

It's vital people are allowed to live their lives in peace. Unsafe in legal routes and on other issues, again, that's a case- by-case basis but the sort of circumstances the noble Lady has mentioned will be ones which the government would certainly look upon in a positive light.

12:23

Lord Arbuthnot of Edrom (Conservative)

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In answer to that noble Baroness Lady Kennedy, the Minister just said that he cannot confirm or deny that prescription of the IGC could take place. He cannot confirm that they could be prescribed, what does keeping it under review mean?

12:24

Lord Hanson of Flint, The Minister of State, Home Department (Labour)

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What I'm trying to say to the noble Lady and the noble Lord is that that is continually under review. It is possible to prescribe any organisation and governments have done that, and if they do prescribe we bring orders before both Houses of Parliament to confirm that. But the matter is under continual review. What I don't want to do is to give an indication to this House at the moment whether an the government would take that step. But as in relation to this statement, the government has, for the very first time, said a very strong signal to the Iranians regime that we will not tolerate their behaviour by including them in the new scheme at the first country to be included.

And when the scheme goes operational will be severe penalties for those nations that should register and do not. That is the general thrust, but everything else is still kept under review. It sends a strong signal to the heavier of the Rainie regime in the UK and internationally. internationally.

12:25

Lord Alton of Liverpool (Crossbench)

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What noble Lord has said about the possible prescription of the IRGC, can he given idea about how long it will be before Jonathan Hall's response which is the Home Office if there's a timeline? And transnational repression, he knows the Joint Committee on Human Rights is working with the Home Office in examining examples of Iranians transnational repression and we have received evidence from the BBC journalists, from others who have been personally affected including pro-democracy advocates. Last week, the Iranian-made gene 's court rejected the appeal of two people rejected the appeal of two people who are in imminent risk of death.

Following death sentence once and death matters to the people of Iran stating this execution driven regime does nothing else, I prepared to give my humble life for the freedom of the rain people. In combating his terror state, rather noble Lord liaise with his FCDO colleagues and ensure that we coordinate our efforts to raise those cases with the UN High Commissioner for Human Rights to challenge these grossly wrong verdicts which have been delivered.

12:26

Lord Hanson of Flint, The Minister of State, Home Department (Labour)

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I'm grateful to the noble Lord. I will draw his comments to the attention of my right honourable from the Foreign Secretary. I'm not aware of whether the representations have been made in the specific case but it's a matter I can look into will allow me, I will write to him with the response from the Foreign Office on these matters which I do understand will be of an urgent nature. I will do that for him today. And transnational repression, let me be clear, I have said this already, it will not be tolerated, it will not be supported.

We will take action on these issues and if anybody is concerned for their safety in the United Kingdom, should contact the police in the first instance who have had training to ensure that they are aware of the potential threats and dangers and as I have ready sent to the House today, the police are both raising awareness and capability of frontline officers and staff across the United Kingdom to include understanding of how threats from foreign powers are presented and how to respond to reports made by members of the public into police forces about potential areas of concern locally.

The national- security which had cross-party support did strengthen UK legal powers to counter foreign interference and those actions include actions on transnational repression and I hope that I can assure the noble Lord that this is a matter of some concern for the government to ensure citizens are safe in the United Kingdom, whatever their nationality.

12:28

Lord Cryer (Labour)

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Can I press my noble friend the Minister further on the question which has been raised critically on the IRGC. The IRGC are clearly a bunch of local fascists and homicidal maniacs who are particularly specialised in the rape, torture and murder of women amongst others. And they will not stop perpetuating their poison and using proxies to do the same stop whatever we do. Further to the question asked by Lord Pollock, I realise the Minister cannot make a commitment today, but does the IRGC actually have to do to lead to them being completely prescribed, not individuals, but complete prescription?

12:29

Lord Hanson of Flint, The Minister of State, Home Department (Labour)

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I'm afraid I may sound like a broken record but the government keeps under review at all times the option of prescription and my noble friend, we're not going to speculate in the House publicly, about what the line is that is crossed for prescription, but I hope my noble friend can be reassured that that remains on option, that the government can't consider and can bring before both houses. I will say to him as well that irrespective of prescription, the national-security, that this has passed electively, in 2023, specifically bans assisting foreign intelligence services such as the IRGC, the act also screw lysis receiving material such as payment from these types of organisations, the maximum penalty for transgressing that act is 14 years in prison.

The same accident as a prescription offence. So although prescription remains an issue for the government to consider, there are specific powers now to ensure that individuals who find themselves on the wrong side of the national-security face severe the national-security face severe

12:30

Baroness O'Loan (Crossbench)

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I welcome the statement made in the House of Commons yesterday for government action against the Iranian regime. The information we have received of 20 identified potential little threats to UK residents and the targeting of distance of which we are all aware. I've listened carefully to the Minister respond repeatedly to the questions about the prescription of the IRGC. I am delighted to hear that because I had a written question last month and I'm delighted to hear that the question is being reviewed.

Given the 800 executions in Iran since last July, the action is important. Can I ask the government to work directly with the groups so as not to legitimise the regime and to support civil society and opposition movements advocating for a democratic secular

12:31

Lord Hanson of Flint, The Minister of State, Home Department (Labour)

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republic? Can I ask the government to permit the leader of the National to permit the leader of the National Council for Resistance in Iran to visit the UK? There can I say to the noble Lady I have covered the first part. I will not repeat what I set about prescription but it is important to say that Jonathan Hall important to say that Jonathan Hall has been asked to review the framework which could be applied to modern state threats like those from Iran including giving specific consideration to the prescription mechanism for state and importantly, as Lord Purvis said earlier, state- linked bodies.

It will provide further promote and strengthen existing ones. I cannot give a timeline but we are encouraging it to happen speedily and we have got bills that it could be added to if required. I have added what she said about civic society and leaders and I will take that away and reflect upon it. upon it.

12:32

Baroness Foster of Oxton (Conservative)

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Not only don't we prescribe the IRGC as a terrorist group but we IRGC as a terrorist group but we appear to allow Iran daily flights to London Bridge, in my view, is astonishing. By all accounts, the Home Office has issued around 200 visas to Islamic clerics in the last 18 months. Despite the involvement of the regime in the October 7 attacks on Israel. Can the Minister please confirm to the House whether this is accurate information? this is accurate information? this is accurate information?

12:33

Lord Hanson of Flint, The Minister of State, Home Department (Labour)

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I can say to the noble Lady that one thing that was said yesterday it will strengthen enforcement of immigration laws and examined on a case-by-case basis the issues the honourable lady as mentioned, for the very same reason we have to examine who requires transport to the UK, we also have to look at people who do not wish to enter the UK and that is why it was stated yesterday that strengthening immigration laws, irrespective of the issue today, are important measures.

measures.

12:34

Lord Walney (Crossbench)

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This is highly welcome but I noticed the reference in the statement from the Minister in relation to investigations by the Charity Commission. That's the Minister share my concern that the Charity Commission so far, despite having a staff of 500 people and the budget of £32 million had been unacceptably reactive and slow in looking at these issues. There are 130-odd live investigations into the Iranian issue and they are not moving fastly or proactively enough.

12:34

Lord Hanson of Flint, The Minister of State, Home Department (Labour)

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I share his concerns around the malign influence that might be projected in the UK and I hope I can assure the House it is on the government radar and the government are examining those and will continue to examine the threats to the UK. The Charity Commission are undertaking enquiry -- inquires into both organisations and tracking progress and we are reviewing whether any Iranian interference has been conducted in the UK accordingly. Crucially, with the specification which is in the statement today of Iran enhanced in the scheme, that will shine light on the Iranian state and the institutions involved in it and I will remind the House of my final comment, that breach of the first regulation for Iran when it is introduced in the summer will result in a potential 5-year prison sentence.

12:36

Debate: International Women’s Day and the promotion of women’s participation and leadership in science and technology in the UK and internationally

The time allowed for questions

12:36

Baroness Smith of Malvern, Minister of State (Education) (Labour)

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has elapsed. Motion for debate, International Women's Day. Baroness

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My My Lords, My Lords, can My Lords, can I My Lords, can I wheel My Lords, can I wheel so My Lords, can I wheel so pleased I am to be opening this International Women's Day debate on my first full day as Minister for Women and Equality. I would like to pay tribute to my predecessor for the enormously important work that she has done in this portfolio. Can I also begin by wishing the House are very happy almost International Women's Day.

The theme of International Women's Day this year as 'accelerate action' because right now the pace of change is not fast enough. With recent years and I am afraid with recent governments, far too many women are similar that the safety and security that they need and that is why we are determined to deliver for women through our plan for a change in government where women are central to all government missions, from reducing violence against women and girls, kickstarting economic growth, fixing the NHS, breaking down barriers to opportunity and through the plan for change, we are making the changes to make sure women's equality becomes a reality.

It will be an ambitious agenda for a decade of renewal and women will be at the heart of it. This International Women's Day we want to celebrate the achievements made towards advancing women putt equality and redoubling the commitment to delivering lasting change for. There is much I could talk about in terms of the achievements of previous Labour governments and the plan for change but today we are focusing our debate on science and technology. We may not think of this place as a bastion of gender equality.

I think that we touch on that yesterday in an oral question. Percentage -wise, there are more women in the House of Lords, once-year-old institution, Lords, once-year-old institution, Lords, once-year-old institution, than women in tech, of sector less hundred years old. If things stay as they are, but not achieve parity until 2058 and it could be worse still in science and technology. The rate of progress will not see women making up an equal share of the text workforce for another 283 years.

-- tech. That is an ocean of time. 283 years ago, women in the UK could not vote, own land or property, or enter most repression. Fortunately, we are not willing to let the current pace of change continue. This is a mission-led government focusing on creating a new time of economic growth and the quality and this is imperative to that. Today, I want to talk about how the government is accelerating action in the UK and internationally.

First, a reminder of why this is so important. We should care about more forms of equality in science and technology, for their own sake. We should also care because it drives the betterment of society and the strengthening of the economy. When women and girls are equally involved in shaping science and tech, the world gets faster breakthroughs, products that work properly, returns. Faster breakthroughs because experts have told us time and time again, diversity leads to new questions being asked in new ways, leading to better research.

Products that work because there is a history of products built without women that do not work properly for the whole population. These are set out brilliantly in the book 'Invisible Women' which I am sure many noble Lord have read. It includes crash test dummies based on real bodies and drugs tested on male animals with question marks on people work on women. And also issues with speech recognition because voice models had only been tested on the all-male developer team who built them.

That might explain why our phones and speakers do not take notice of us. Finally, better returns because businesses and economies stand to gain hugely here. Research consistently finds that general adversity and ethnic and cultural capacities are good for and cultural capacities are good for business. Companies in the top category for gender equality are 25% more likely to outperform on profit than those in the bottom quarter. Looking at the bigger picture, if were to start and scale businesses at the same rate as men, we will see a potential boost of £250 billion to the UK economy.

Without gender equality, the growth mission is stunted. Let's turn to what the government is doing to promote women's dissipation and leadership in science and technology. Participation takes in women as citizens of the digital world as well as creators of it. We must think about digital inclusion which disproportionately affects women as well as online harms that women and girls are up against. I know that my noble friend Baroness Jones in closing this debate may well go into those topics further.

I am sure that there will be plenty for her to respond to with the excellent range of speakers that we have today. For now, let me focus on three tellers of improving diversity in science and technology. How do we make sure women and girls have the know-how to participate in the sector. How do we help with entrepreneurship in science? How do we protect the rights of women employed by firms in this sector? Firstly, touring two skills. The Digital Poverty Alliance is estimated if we help everyone in work to get essential digital skills we could see a £70 billion increase in yearly earnings but to get that list, we cannot afford to have such a big percentage of the population mitigate.

Globally, women and girls are 25% less likely than men to have enough digital skills to use technology. As with everything we discussed today, we must recognise the experiences of a whole range of women in the UK. Women from more socio-economic backgrounds are more likely to lack digital skills, as our Women With Disabilities. The good news is that STEM education is growing and there were 25% more A- level entries for women and girls in 2020 compared to 2010. Breaking down opportunities is one of the core missions of the government.

We are making sure this trend continues in the right direction, across the board. The curricular review is considering how to modernise education and qualifications to fit with work in the 21st century. Skills England is reviewing what courses can better fill the digital skills gap and then you levy funded offer will deliver greater responsibility for employers in England, aligned with the industrial strategy, creating routes into jobs strategy, creating routes into jobs in drawing industry. We promote the STEM ambassadors and women's participation has improved but challenges remain and women now make up 24% of the workforce, passing 1 million for the first time.

However, representation is disproportionately low in certain fields, highlighting ongoing challenges. Higher education is playing a key role in driving change. Universities are implementing mentoring schemes, outreach programs, gender-balanced research funding to support and retain female talent in STEM and government employers and education providers are working together to inspire more girls to pursue STEM careers including the ambassador program and industry outreach initiatives. A couple of programs product including the Cyber First Girls program which invites girls to crack codes and solve problems, all to encourage them to pursue a career in cyber security.

In 2024, 14,500 girls from 500 schools to part. In science, the quest towards funding for URI dear girls the chance to run their own research grams. Also, there is AI with the action plan launched by the Prime Minister in January which sets out how we will see the enormous opportunity AI presents to boost growth, raise living standards, transform public services. This opportunity must be open to all. Only 22% of those employed an AI right now are women. Women are less likely to use AI in day-to-day life.

The government will continue to back AI and data science conversion quotas, allowing graduates to gain a Masters in AI. It is wonder to the 72% of students on these quality so far had been, far higher than for comparable STEM masters and the support from the DfE, we will explore how to scale up extracurricular activities for girls in schools to cover AI, building on the National Cyber Security Centre work on cyber security skills. The UK is opening opportunities for women and girls around the world.

The Girls Education Skills Partnership is £800 million collaboration between the UK, UNICEF, and companies like Microsoft. It gives women if you have the right skills and helps to see new avenues open, from working as a code breaker, to be part of the AI revolution, funding a business of their own. That takes us to Let's share the story of a brilliant female founded signs and company. New Quantum was started as a spin out from Cambridge. Quantum computer could be our most fine powerful tool to transform industries but quantum computers need to be a thousand times more powerful than the art today.

That's the challenge the team are working on. It's a team with diversity at its heart and almost half of the employers are women. They have 20 nationalities are presented and they are an LGB trendy workplace. Companies like new Quantum are essential for new women to look up to women are still starting signs and this is less than Mandy. It is little wonder why, overall female founded businesses got us to 1.8% share of total equity investment in the first half of 2024 and that number shrinks further still when we look at the experience of women of colour.

In tech, the average deal capital raised by female founded AI companies is six times lower than that raised by all-male teams. This government is supporting female founders across our economy to get the finance that they need. The women in innovation programme run by innovate UK has awarded over £11 million to female entrepreneurs since it started, women now make up one in three successful bids to innovate UK, up from one in seven. We also back the interest in women taskforces women backing women fund connects female investors with female lead companies.

Specifically in science, the Future Fund, the invest into R&D heavy companies in life science and deep tech, many of which are headed up by female founders. As well as helping entrepreneurs find funding, we are supporting the finance sector as a whole to reckon with that role in this. Over 280 companies colluding most major retail banks have now signed up to the investing in women code committing to improve access to finance for women. It's not just the piece of paper.

Companies that have signed up are shown to outperform the rest of the market in giving equity to female founders. The proportion of female founded businesses around the world has increased steadily in recent years but we must continue to give them the environment that they need to fly, to create new role models for the next generation. Finally, industry. We will keep working with signs and tech firms to boost gender Equality Act all levels, particularly in senior roles. The employment rights Bill will be a cornerstone here.

The bill will make sure that women, no matter the workplace, are empowered, represented, protected and able to pursue meaningful careers, regardless of whether or not for example they plan to start a family. It expands gender pay gap reporting requirements, gives more rights to pregnant workers and new mothers, and puts tougher duties on firms to prevent sexual harassment. It also introduces equality action plans were large employers have to set out what they are doing to improve gender equality. By making sure signs and firms foster inclusive working environment, we can make sure these are places where all kinds of people get to succeed.

I'm delighted at how popular a debate this is to speak of today and that several members of this House are about to make their maiden speech is. I will make way now for them to share their perspectives and look forward to my noble friend closing our debate, with invaluable insight from her role is to administer for science, innovation and tech and business and. Let me wrap up by iterating that we don't just improve the participation of women and girls in science and technology because it feels like the right thing to do.

We do it because we stand to unlock new realms of scientific advancement, technological innovation and economic growth. The key to everybody being better off, when more women and girls are at the table. Thank you.

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The question is that this motion be agreed to.

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be agreed to. My Lords, it's a great privilege to speak in our International Women's Day debate and to reflect on Women's Day debate and to reflect on the steps being taken to promote women's participation and leadership, both here in the United Kingdom and internationally. I look forward to hearing the maiden forward to hearing the maiden speeches of the noble lady's Baroness Alexander of Cleveden,

12:54

Baroness Stedman-Scott (Conservative)

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party on a day like today, as a party we have had four female leaders including three female Prime Ministers, we are a party that Ministers, we are a party that recognises the immense contribution women make and I'm proud to say that women make and I'm proud to say that I have never felt or experienced being a woman has ever held me back. The acceptance I have felt throughout my career is thanks to the contribution of women throughout history who stood up for themselves and thoughtful women's rights.

It is Them -- and fought for women's right. It is thanks to them that we are quite literally had a. Women could not take their seats in your Lordship's House until 1958, some 40 years after the other place. Aren't we grateful we weren't born then. My first job for the Salvation Army, I'm proud to have worked for an organisation which has done so much for women and in 1865, when William Booth started the Salvation Army, the Salvation Army's first foundational document affirmed that women have the same rights to minister and preach as man.

Setting a trail that other Christian groups have chosen to follow. The Salvation Army of his refuge for women and children fleeing or at risk of domestic abuse from its inception to the present day, they have been fighting for women. General William Booth was ahead of his time. He was ahead of everybody. And I'm really sorry that we don't have any bishops with us today. Because I wanted, had a great one-liner for them to say, it's taken a long time to catch up.

Like so many other noble Lords becoming a member of your Lordship's House was not something I ever expected in my earliest years. Of course, women could not be members when I was born. But my earliest experience of life were not that simple. And I owe a great deal to a lady set me on a path who has led me to a successful, I hope, and fulfilled life. I have to tell you one day I was quite a handful.

I know noble Lords will Siam now, but believe me, things have only got better. And I was doing something that I should not have been doing, and she said to me, you shouldn't do that. And she took to the Salvation Army. She took it to my technical College every day and picked me up. I did my homework, I passed my exams and I owe her everything to be where I am today. Milos, when I had the Honor of opening our debate in 2022, I had just returned from the 66 session of the commission on the status of women.

That year the commission was focused on achieving gender equality and empowerment of all women in the context of climate change. Working without international partners and reflecting on our role in the international community in pressing for women's rights was one of the proudest moments as a minister working with our partners. The UK has come so far on women's rights in the last 150 years and now we have to show ourselves as a role model for women everywhere who are struggling for their rights.

We are a society, they look up to, as a model where women can do any job, whether that be serving in the Armed Forces, running a FTSE 100 company, as my noble friend has done, Baroness Morrissey, and others in this House. Being an MP, or member of your Lordship's House, or even Prime Minister. Indeed, for most of our lives, we had her late Majesty Queen Elizabeth II to look up to. She was a model to us all, both here and abroad.

Calmly and effectively steering our country through over 70 years of monstrous change and years of monstrous change and -- Tumultuous change. And I know she was an inspiration to another woman, and I would like to pay tribute to the Duchess of Edinburgh. She has been absolutely outstanding in her focus for women. Champion for women, women in the workplace, equality and action against sexual violence. I'm pleased to see so many strong women contributing to our debate today.

Women in public life bring different perspectives and speak up for the rights of us all. I'm a proud member of your Lordship's House alongside so many noble Baronesses who have committed their lives to the service of others. But that public service comes, too, at sometimes great cost. We know, women who are elected to another place and serving your Lordship's House face the most appalling abuse and threats. Abuse that is so much hateful, simply because they are women. Milos, we must all stand together in calling it out -- Milos.

We must add together against misogyny, whatever it rears its ugly head. And it's on days like this that I am reminded of Jo Cox, the former member for that be in Spain in the other place, she gave her life literally to public service and her life was tragically cut short while she was doing her duty as an elected politician. Her loss will be keenly felt by so many in this House, and those who had the privilege of working with her. We must continue to call out this The theme of our debate today is promoting women's participation in science and technology.

I'm not denigrating teachers here, so please don't start on me. I remember a young lady I spoke to who was wanting to be a print -- who wanted to be an apprentice. She spoke to the teacher who said, now, you can have this, you must go to university. We can't have this. I'm so dedicated to apprenticeships and I want to make sure that we get the right advice, the right guidance to women in particular so they can follow the right path.

So, if I may, I'd like to ask the noble Baroness the Minister. I understand there are plans to merge job centre plans and the career service, so it would be good what the plans are and whether there will be enough resource to provide educational and work advice to women. Talent is equally distributed and opportunity should be as well. It is our duty to ensure that every young girl who dreams of being a scientist, engineer or tech entrepreneur has the confidence to make that dream a reality.

The late Lady Thatcher had a successful career in chemistry before turning to public service and is our hope -- it is our hope that many women can follow in her footsteps. By continuing to promote policies that empower women in TERM, we strengthen not only our workforce but our society and global standing as a leader in science and technology -- STEM. Let us Mark International Women's Day with ensuring that innovation is diverse, inclusive and driven by talent from all backgrounds.

I think that this is something all noble Lords on all sides of the house can agree on. sides of the house can agree on.

13:02

Baroness Brinton (Liberal Democrat)

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It is a real pleasure to follow my noble friend. I'm looking forward to hearing the maiden speeches today as well. Whilst the participation of women in certain subjects is increasing steadily, physics and computer sciences remains slow compared to biology, chemistry and maths. Biology and maths are the second and third top choices for females for a levels. 25% of candidates in physics are female now, which is a considerable now, which is a considerable improvement and, unfortunately, for computer sciences, it remains low at only 15%.

The expressive arts are still the top female choices for a levels. I wonder perhaps if our education system is at fault. It is too easy when choosing a levels to abandon the sciences and to go for either arts or sciences. I want to start by celebrating three extraordinary women I've had the privilege of knowing and had the privilege of knowing in one case who made their mark over the last 100 years who have been extraordinary leaders of women in STEM in their day because we need to understand how the world has changed.

Doctor Adam -- Doctor Anna bidder graduated from Cambridge with a degree in zoology but she couldn't received that degree because she was a woman -- Anna Bidder. Only after 1948 did Cambridge allow women to receive degrees that they qualified for. degrees that they qualified for. Despite that, she had a career at colleges at -- and at a zoology course where she was teaching young men further degrees. It was not until 1998 that she and other female alum nine from before 1948 were believe it or not finally allowed to receive degrees that they had been awarded.

But by then, she had also founded and been the first president of the college for mature women students in Cambridge, Lucy Cavendish, which thrives today. Doctor Lucy Slater was a mathematician who worked on hyper geometric functions and was one of the very few women present at the birth of early computing in the UK. Her story -- her stories over cups of tea about the size of IPSAC astonished my children. She developed the precursor of the modern computer operating systems, later working on computer programs for econometrics.

Lucy, a friend and a neighbour, was an invisible giant on his shoulders many successive women have stood. But the places of excellence were sometimes not even open to women to start with. Despite exceptional female scientists applying in 1900 to join the Royal Society, it took to the extraordinarily named Sex Disqualification Removal Act and 20 -- in 1914 for it to become legal to not consider women as members of the Royal Society. It was the same act that enabled women to get women -- enabled women to get their degrees.

I really support what Cambridge University does for women these days. It was not until 1943 that the Royal Society promoted to women, Kathleen Lonsdale and Marjorie Stevenson, to be elected. Now, over 200 women have been elected as Fellows and the numbers are rising fast. Dame Athene Donald, a fellow of the Royal Society is a brilliant physicist and a champion of future of girls and women in STEM. She said that as a young researcher, she was that as a young researcher, she was judged but when she became a player in the industry, that was when she really noticed it.

That is how hard it was for women to succeed and be a couple of decades ago. What has she done to change it? I really recommend her latest book. Not Just for the Boys : Why We Need More Women in Science. It does what it says on the book. It really explains the problem. She tells of her granddaughter's description of construction corner at primary school. We have a construction corner but the boys play their. Well, Athena has determined to change that.

She roots this in our cultural assumptions from birth. The toys we give to our babies and small children and what happens to them at nursery and even at primary school. And even worse, I'm afraid, my Lords, there is still a perception that some parts of STEM are too hard for girls. A teacher at a community college said just two years ago, just from my knowledge of these things, physics is not something that girls 20 fancy. There is a lot of hard maths in there that I think they would rather not do.

She was criticised for saying that at the time but actually, I think she may have spoken the truth. The evidence shows that it is wrong. The Institute for Physics said that the overall proportion of women studying physics at university has increased from 21% to 25% over a decade to 2021. And over the same period, the number of women professors in physics has more than doubled from 55 to 140. And to show that this is not just chance, women academic staff members in physics have increased by 52% and now makes up 25% of academic contract.

Changes on the move. And the Institute of Physics project Juno works to improve the representation of women in physics. We need to reach girls in primary school as well. I was lucky. My children went to primary school in Cambridge and when my daughter was in primary school in the junior age group, every single class had a female maths undergraduates help with maths lessons. As a result, my daughter, a natural historian, went on to take chemistry and maths as part of her IB and she uses both of them every day in her job.

I want to end on a really practical, positive and brave really practical, positive and brave note. The advisory group Minds says that women avoid conflict. They have trained women in Ukraine. As the miners they are trained in technology and one of the most dangerous roles on earth. Their skills also build the relationships skills also build the relationships Means that farmers can sell their crops once more. This means so much in Ukraine Russia has mind -- mined.

This is what we should be doing. Encouraging girls to learn STEM early. The girls of today and tomorrow, the young women of tomorrow are moving at a pace. May Athene Donald's vision become a reality.

13:11

Baroness Lane-Fox of Soho (Crossbench)

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I also thank Baroness Smith for her introduction to this debate. I have to say that I am angry. I'm not a person prone to arrange an -- rage and fury but I am angry because this is an important question we are ignoring at our peril. I have now worked in the technology sector or around it for over 30 years and I have seen no change in the relationship between the sector and women and the numbers of women. In fact, I have seen a degradation, not just in culture but in numbers.

It's very clear. Many people have already very clear. Many people have already spoken and. Only 26% of global tech force workforce are women. In leadership roles, it falls to around 15%. In the UK, it is just 6%. Just 6% of leadership roles in the UK tech sector are women. Why does this matter? It matters because as we know, software is eating the world. We know that it is not an option to digitise, it is happening. These are the jobs of the future, they are the jobs which create the services of the future and they are the jobs which will be paid the most amount of money.

It is about power and about justice and it is about fairness. I'm so dismayed when I see the numbers and I keep going back to this disconnect between what I see happening and then I see the benefits and the bonus of employing diversity in teams and putting it at the heart of a company strategy, and I just cannot understand this disconnect. This is why I am angry. We know that consumers, 85% of consumers care that the product come from diverse teams.

We know that employees care about diverse teams. We have seen upwards of 80% of potential employees care. And yet we see the numbers stalling and worse than that, if he believed, as I do, that the sector is going to be eaten again by AI, by quantum, by deep tech, the numbers fall off even more considerably. So we are in a very perilous position. And it is extremely disappointing to see the enormous influence of the US technology sector being integrated into the culture of our own companies here.

I cannot believe that there is a single person who looks like me who has worked on the edges of the digital sector for so long who did not feel like crying as they watch the inauguration and the six men who have completely and totally committed to a president who at the same time has degraded the role of women so substantially. It matters. Culture matters, character matters, value of company leaders matter. And yet, I do not see this being laid out in an industry which is also so full of innovation and so full of the wonderful history that Baroness Brinton so brilliantly described to us just now.

So we have to take this issue very seriously and make substantial change. I'd like to suggest two important areas to focus on. The first is around innovation and entrepreneurship and as it was already said, but I'm going to 'just one .8% of venture capital funding goes to women. 1.8%. Marginally better if you look at That is partly explained because just 9% of venture capital partners are women, so if you have teams of people do not look like as of course it is going to be more risky to give it to people to our talking about products help about that menopause, about babies, about.

Spot who knows if it is going to be successful and I cannot imagine that product myself, so the funnel is clear. We have to shift it across-the-board. Not just an onus on the entrepreneurs but also the finance strategies around it. There are changes, there are brilliant things happening, my friend Debbie who is looking at raising the funds for women supporting women that these funds are at around 200 million, they need to be closer to 2 billion. To really shift the dial.

We must give up the focus on finance. It is fundamental. And within the entrepreneurship. But secondarily we have to keep a focus on culture. It is more difficult, it is more existential. I have never used the words D EEI in my life until the last two months, and yet I find last two months, and yet I find myself defending the very notion of equality to journalists, to people I work with, to companions in the sector and outside of it. Again, I cannot understand this disconnect between what seems like good business practice and as the Harvard business review said in 2015 will lead to a 20% increase in your profit line if you have mixed and diverse teams.

And what we are now facing which is a fundamental drawback in the belief and the priorities of this, the substantial programs. Just yesterday I heard of Google's edict from on high grown back a huge number of different projects that it works with your in the UK and charities in the civic sector that look at diversity equality, inclusion, AI for good. This is a very sick account issuer. I would just end by imploring you to feel the peril of this moment and the urgency of this moment.

I want to submit the amazing way that we in this chamber and are looking forward to the Maiden speech is but I am angry and I am nervous and we have to fighting.

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Excellent.

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Excellent. I rise to make my Maiden speech.

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I rise to make my Maiden speech. And the third noble Lords to my register of interest. It is an honour to participate in this debate, to Baroness Lane-Fox and I debate, to Baroness Lane-Fox and I look forward to my Noble Friends maiden speeches today. I think the noble Lords in all parts of the House, for their warm welcome. I pay tribute to my sponsors, Baroness tribute to my sponsors, Baroness Kennedy, Baroness Liddell Carrier Strike, and I also thank the officers of the House and all of the

13:18

Baroness Alexander of Cleveden (Labour)

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Palace of Westminster staff or their airing kindness. Now, a Maiden airing kindness. Now, a Maiden speech, traditionally, offer some personal insight. My early life personal insight. My early life moved between inner-city Glasgow and moved between inner-city Glasgow and the Isle of Iona. And to please the ecclesiastical team from earlier on, my father was a Church of Scotland my father was a Church of Scotland minister who works for the community and the organisation dedicated to social justice. My Argyll connection did cultivate one useful -- useful skill.

The physics of coastal splash letting. I became an accomplished salmon poacher. At school I then studied STEM subjects. I was planning to follow my maternal grandparents into the medical mission field. It was an ambition that did not survive contact with the reality of rural clinics in Malawi. By the mid-1990s I was working in international consultancy but in May 1997 I joined the Blair Government to support the late Donald Dewar to support this. And the Parliament, as we have heard, is an outstanding example of visionary leadership overcoming entrenched occupational segregation.

My Noble occupational segregation. My Noble Friends Baroness Harman, Liddell, Armstrong, and current, all with many others delivered a Parliamentary Labour group equally balanced between men and women. And once the dam was broken, Hollywood could never be able club and the benches opposite are raised by the noble Baronesses Goudie and Davidson, both who led their parties with distinction. In 2008, after briefly leading Scottish Labour, I departed to spend more time with my children. And beyond that familiar cliche, like so many women, I had totally underestimated the impact of toddlers and other responsibilities on my career.

Today women still disproportionately exit STEM careers to manage family life. I had spent the last 15 years in international education, including a Scottish trade envoy and working alongside the U.K.'s international education capital. Whenever we visited Pakistan, Nigeria, India, Indonesia, Vietnam, Brazil, what most animated the education Ministers were not lessons from the UK education system but how they might build effective skills systems and how they are delighted to see Skills England taking shape. It is customary for a new member to signal their areas of interest without exciting -- insight and controversy.

I confess to some discomfort because all of those sermons I imbibed as a child demanded the listener engage with the dominating issue of the day. And so I sought out the wisdom of the House in recent maiden speeches. All delivered BC, before Christmas. And how seismic the changes are since then. Former Lord Chief Justice in his Maiden speech eloquently eulogised the rule of law. A principle now seemingly questioned by leading voices in our closest allies. Lord Peach, the former chief of defence staff, issued a rallying cry for the Western alliance.

Arguably now in intensive-care, and Baroness Smith grappled with things so many have lost hope and that was before the transatlantic leaders had embraced the far right. Now all sides of the House I the Prime Minister's masterful diplomatic stewardship, but these developments weigh heavily on my conscience as they must for many noble Lords as we look ahead. Populism thrives when citizens lose faith the politicians can bring about positive change in their lives, and yet this debate challenges that counsel of despair, all parents still aspire for their children to prosper.

I have the privilege to Chair the body that certifies every electrician in the country. It is a vital STEM skill, there are a few to women, and yet a high quality friendship is the route out of low wages, insecurity, and unstable work. It is the source of pride, of hope, and opportunity. So, my first passion in this place would be ensuring that the power and prosperity that comes from secure skills are available to all. And my second passion would be tackling the regional inequalities that scar our country.

Earlier this week as a house we wrestled with our insights and shape and I hope that we find equal passion from passing power and from here back to the beating heart of Britain. My final passion is international. As vice Chair of the British Council I issuer the Noble Lord that we are engaging with the challenges of populism, strongman politics, and the conflicts. We are rethinking our place in the world, our support for democracy, for equality. These are precious principles.

My Lords, we live in extraordinary times. But as a child, listening to those sermons, I learned that life's purpose is not simply a critique of the darkness, but to do justice, to love mercy, and to walk calmly, and so is one of the newbies I will endeavour to accompany and in my case to walk more slowly along these corridors, but I want to close by recalling here on the threshold of International Women's Day each one of us stands on our mothers shoulders, if we dwell on that we will be headed in the right

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direction. My Lords and ladies, come on, it is International Women's Day, right? It is my great pleasure to follow my honourable friend Baroness Alexander

13:24

Baroness Hazarika (Labour)

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honourable friend Baroness Alexander and welcome her to this House, along with so many other great women, including Baronesses Boustead, Hunter, and Rafferty, who are also making their maiden speeches today and also I do not want to forget Lord Jones, even though he is a man and he is taking part in the International Women's Day debate, you are now an honorary member of the sisterhood. Now, in a rather alarming era of the strongman it is heartening to see the arrival of so many strong women to this chamber and I look forward to you all standing up, questing for change.

Causing a wee bit of trouble and to speaking much sense. Now, as a fellow Scot I am a long-time admirer of Baroness Alexander. She played a key role in the Scottish parliament from its creation in 1999 until 2011. And she is a woman that gets things done. Her achievements include the first social Justice report, tackling homelessness, fighting the pernicious section 28, and announcing the first Scottish white fund to tackle violence against women. She also helped shape a more modern and equal Scottish Labour Party when she was an adviser to Donald Dewar in.

And she was instrumental in making it more inclusive of women and less of a boys club. It is fitting that she went on to become the party's first female leader in Scotland and paved the way for so many others. And I look forward to the rich contributions she will make to this House and wish her well.

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I would also like to warmly congratulate my honourable friend congratulate my honourable friend Baroness Smith on her new role as Minister for Women and equalities. Podcasting and Iain Dale's loss, Podcasting and Iain Dale's loss, yes, he is still bereft, is very much our gain. I know that she cares very deeply about the subject and she will do an excellent job for the she will do an excellent job for the many. Now, this is such an important debate and technology has shipped so debate and technology has shipped so many aspects of our lives for the better, but as Baroness Lane Fox said we do have to be honest.

There are winners and there are losers. No, the winners seem to be very rich, powerful tech pros who are now some of the most important people on the planet. And the women seem to often be losers. Women and girls are often at the mercy of a savage, rapacious need for online pornography which is getting ever more violent, more dark, and more dangerous. The online world is becoming a harder place. And making our tech friends in a lot of money.

But I think that we are all losing out. Young women are being told that it is cool, just be cool with a bit of sexual violence, next regulation or choking during sex. Young men are being taught that what they see on their phones is normal and necessary to be a man. It is not. And it is to be a man. It is not. And it is harming them. We are numbing generation and I would like to thank Baroness Burt for her view and online pornography and her work on deep fakes and I hope that the Government can work with them to make the online space is just a little bit safer for women and girls.

And what happens online is not abstract. It ships what happens in real life. Violence against women and girls is at a terrifying level. It is just four years since that merger sever -- Sarah Everard, and we honestly think that things that have changed that much? The report delves into the epidemic of violence against women, in their latest report just out they have found that it is not just young women who are the victims of male violence, one in eight women killed by men in the last 15 years was over the age of 70.

So, can the Minister of data as on what is being done to better protect older women often ignored in the media and wider society. I used to feel very optimistic about International Women's Day. I look I used to look forward to all of the celebrations, the parties, gatherings stop at like many women right now I feel pretty depressed about how things are going. Because things are going backwards, whether it is the rise of misogyny, here and all around the world we look at the anti-abortion laws in America, women being erased in Afghanistan.

And when we look at the effects of women and girls all over the world. And it feels like there is very little female representation in the room with these new global powers meeting. We have to be honest, the power structures in the world right now are, once again, very male. And technology is playing a huge role. So, I make this lead to the Minister. We understand that technology and AI is here to stay and we understand that they are important to growth and the evolution of society.

As we heard so eloquently from Baroness Lane-Fox, this is a sector dominated by men. With the new global overlords who can make or break presidents and leaders right down to the engineers and coders, so yes, let us harness the power of this exciting technical revolution but please let us not worship at the altar of the tech worship at the altar of the tech We must not be the sacrificial lambs at this pivotal moment. Thank you.

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My Lords, it's a pleasure to follow the noble Baroness lady Hazarika and I pay tribute to all of those doing their maiden speeches today. The first time I spoke was 14 today. The first time I spoke was 14 years ago and I caused a frisson around the chamber because I announced to the house that I had never heard of International Women's never heard of International Women's Day until I came to the House of Lords. I'm com -- I'm conscious that for a lot of women, International for a lot of women, International Women's Day still doesn't feel that relevant.

I'm going to try to draw that theme together with the theme of the debate as I speak today. And when I saw that today's debate was about technology, I felt compelled about technology, I felt compelled to speak, having just worked for a relevant Select Committee. When I looked at the list of speakers today, I thought and felt confident that other noble friends who have distinguished careers in the tech and science sectors would be much better placed to talk about women better placed to talk about women leaders and innovators, and stress the importance of women having equal opportunities to succeed and to have their talents properly rewarded and achievements recognised.

I want to pay tribute to the Noble Baronesses in this house who have had distinguished careers in the tech sector and I pay tribute to the Noble Baronesses lady Lane Fox. I listened carefully to what she had to say. I was pleased the other week to be outed in art with other female tech people and I was very inspired by listening to them around the room. But what I want to do today today -- what I want to do today and the time I have available is pay tribute to women who worked at the technology factory at the end of the

13:33

Baroness Stowell of Beeston (Conservative)

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street where I grew up. It stood there throughout the 20th century there throughout the 20th century and what it did, it designed and built the communications and electronics. As far back as World electronics. As far back as World War I, the factory manufactured wireless technologies and even in the 30s, there are reports of robots the 30s, there are reports of robots making -- being made on site. My mum started working for Eriksson in the 1950s and worked there until she was made redundant in the mid-90s.

At its height, the factory employs about 8000 people on site. I don't know how many were women but most of my mum's friends today, all in their 80s now, worked at the factory. Just to name a few alongside my mum, Margaret, I would highlight riders Herbert, Shelley white commentaries award -- Iris Herbert, Shirley award -- Iris Herbert, Shirley white, chorizo -- Theresa Ward. Most of these women did the same jobs as the men or had the same opportunity the men or had the same opportunity to do over time as the men which was vital for my mum during the years she was alone.

During the 80s, the factory was developing digital technologies but competition from the Far East triggered its decline. Bits of it existed under different firms but it eventually closed completely in 2008. The demise of this factory was a big load for all of us, whether we work there or not because it was the heart of our community. That sense of loss is felt by many other towns which suffered from deindustrialisation. But I feel now it is such a big loss that we lost a massive tech firm from a small town.

What is vital is that the AI industry and revolution and other tech innovations create new opportunities for new businesses in all parts of the country. Clearly, there will be disruption and sadly not all former industry or and sadly not all former industry or sites will be reversioned. I should add that the factory site is now a housing estate. The government can create the right conditions for investment and scaling of UK tech firms, including those firms led by women entrepreneurs that the Noble Baronesses lady Lane Fox spoke of.

I pay tribute today to my mum and her female colleagues and I salute today's young entrepreneurs who are vital to our nation successful

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future. My Lords, let me begin by

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My Lords, let me begin by questioning the chamber that I may questioning the chamber that I may sound slightly naive in the remarks I would like to offer today. It

13:36

Baroness Moyo (Non-affiliated)

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I would like to offer today. It strikes me as curious that each year across the world and here in your Lordships chamber, we meet to

13:36

Baroness Stowell of Beeston (Conservative)

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celebrate women, get almost invariably, we hear an extensive list of how women and girls continue list of how women and girls continue to struggle, face harm, endure

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Baroness Moyo (Non-affiliated)

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to struggle, face harm, endure worsening inequity and economic worsening inequity and economic worsening inequity and economic inequality. Of course, as policymakers, we do not want to see this further entrenched and we should be seeking and listening to lasting solutions. In this sense, a clear and articulate articulation and problem identification has its part to play in achieving the best and highest policy outcomes. But we must also celebrate success and thus highlight some sectors were women continue to progress.

In politics, globally, the share of women in Parliament has increased from 24.3% in 2019 to 27.2% in 2025. In the United Kingdom, both in the other place and here in Your Lordships' House, we now have the highest proportion of female representation ever recorded at 40% and almost 30% respectively. Dare I say it, we are in the room where it's happening. We need to do more. Around the world, several countries have achieved even higher levels of female representation in Parliament. And what is clearly a win for women in politics globally, at least 20 countries, including from Africa, Latin America and the Middle East, have a higher proportion and representation of women in the other place in the United Kingdom.

Among that list, my Lords, countries like Cuba, Rwanda, the United Arab Emirates. Meanwhile, in business and finance, survey notes that women make up 43% of directors on FTSE 100 boards compared with 2000. The number of women in Fortune 100 companies has risen. Yes, even in science and technology, the more narrow field takes to be highlighted in today's debate, we do see some progress. It is sadly true that women remain underrepresented in science, technology, engineering and mathematics and that women led start-ups, as my noble friend mentioned, find it hard to secure venture capital for technology and start-ups.

And, of course, there is well-known concern that AI contains intrinsic gender bias that continues to harm women. However, there is also good news worth stressing. First, according to government statistics, over 29% of stem roles are now held by women -- STEM. It is encouraging to see total numbers of women in STEM roles having reached 1.3 million in 2023 according to the campaign. Up from estimates of 800,000 nearly a decade ago. Second, in terms of wages and compensation, there are visible improvements that the gender pay gap is closing, albeit slowly.

According to a 2024 report by Outsourced UK, the tech pay gap has improved to 15.6% in 2024 compared to 17.3 in 2021. My Lords, third in terms of leadership, no doubt there are prominent women making a mark and thereby inspiring and new generation of young women and girls. You in the UK, we have standard examples in these important trends. Dame Emma Walmsley, the chief executive of the pharmaceutical company GSK which was the largest vaccine produced in the lead up to the pandemic.

She is also a member of the Board of Directors of Microsoft, one of the magnificent seven technological companies. Dame Kate Bingham, the prominent venture capitalists specialising in health who was instrumental in the rollout of the COVID-19 vaccine and was at the intersection of business and health affords. Noble Baronesses in this house from the fields of technology. We must listen to them but also celebrate them. And, of course, Hannah Fry. There is no doubt that significant inequities remain and indeed persist.

However, we are policymakers, we are in the room. And if we are not the ones pushing to advance this, then who is? We need Wallace's that can deliver more women working and leading in science and technology together which is why it is interesting to participate in this debate. My Lords, clearly, a lot more needs to be done. But we must celebrate this year's International Women's Day by at least taking note of progress being made in science and allergy.

After all, the more that we celebrate successes today, the more likely we may have inspiring examples of success in the

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future. I would like to thank my noble

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I would like to thank my noble friend the Minister, Baroness Smith, for introducing this debate. We were for introducing this debate. We were colleagues in government and I'm delighted to be speaking today on a subject that matters so much to us subject that matters so much to us subject that matters so much to us both. I thank everyone in this house for the warm welcome I have received. I'm grateful to the received. I'm grateful to the exceptional people that make this place work, from my first rather sobering moment with Gaza to the clerks and lack rod and the

13:43

Baroness Hunter of Auchenreoch (Labour)

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excellent teams. Especially, of course, the doorkeeper's. -- Black course, the doorkeeper's. -- Black Rod. Thank you for guiding me around. I would also like to thank around. I would also like to thank the Prime Minister for conferring the Prime Minister for conferring this privilege on me. I know it is customary to give a flavour of oneself in a maiden speech. It may surprise some people in this house surprise some people in this house that I'm of Scottish stock. Born in Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia, to a second-generation rubber plantation second-generation rubber plantation manager, a war hero and a mother who worked in the cipher office during the war effort.

They instilled a simple values in me. To behave oneself, work hard, and look after others. And I hope they would be proud of the little girl today. My rather idyllic childhood was altered dramatically by the death of my mother in a car crash when I was 11. By father then settled with my formidable grandmother at her family home in Angus where they raised me and from where I take my title. I am delighted to follow a fellow Scot and friend, Baroness Alexander, and I congratulate her on her excellent maiden speech.

I'm also looking forward to the other maiden speeches In 1987 I went to work for the then unknown Tony Blair at Westminster at the very same time as my honourable friend, the Noble Lord Wilson, in Sedgefield. I asked my boss what he wanted from me. He replied alliance building. This has been a large part of my life in politics and beyond. In business and academia. Including with members on all sides of your Lordships house. On the celebration of International Women's Day I trust your Lordships will not mind if in the brief time I have left I concentrate on my female influences.

I thank my Noble Friend the leader of the Baroness Smith of Basildon for her leadership and her warm welcome. She is in the great tradition of female leaders of this House. My dear friends, Baronesses Royal, Ashton, Amos and J. After my time in Government I went into industry at Anglia America. Both companies run by enlightened leaders. I worked on many programs to increase the numbers of female scientists, technologists, and engineers around the world. I welcome the government's commitment to encouraging more girls to study STEM subjects, thereby increasing the pipeline.

I am also delighted to be speaking in this debate with former political colleagues. I Noble Friends Baroness Jones of win church, Baroness Bale, and the Noble Lady Baroness Casey. And many other remarkable women across this House. Another friend Baroness Donnelly and I are long-standing advisory for members of the University of Birmingham business School where we encourage the research, teaching, and enterprise. I have declared this in the register of members interests as well as my shareholding at Anglia America.

At the Royal Academy of engineering I elaborated with the noble Baronesses to ensure that the Noble Lord Cameron, add Miliband, all spoke at his launch. This year we celebrated our second female joint winner for the development of modern machine learning. Academy colleagues and I motored participation in STEM by young people, especially girls, speaking in schools and working with the science Museum. I look forward to learning from the many experts in this House. I think one Noble Friend Lord Kennedy, fellow pupil of the Margaret McDonagh school of politics.

As nice and firm now as he was then and my sponsor the Noble Lord brown, might as inspiring boss of BP and again when he was president of the Royal Academy of engineering. I am lucky to have him as my honourable friend, mentor, and guide, and lifelong advocate of women in business, science, and engineering. I have a sponsor I have left until last. I thank my Noble Friend for being an utterly reliable friend and constant political ally.

I them both a lot and I look forward to the alliances with you.

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My lords and might ladies I undulated to inform my Noble Friend and congratulate her on her excellent Maiden speech. I think all of us would expect nothing less, of us would expect nothing less,

13:49

Baroness Gale (Labour)

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of us would expect nothing less, such a great speech. I want to know my Noble Friend as my time as the general secretary of the Welsh Labour Party and by then she was working as the leader of the party of Tony Blair. After the general election in 1997 became the director of Government relations and has been described as the most information on person in Downing Street. And my experience of working with her was a very good one. And I believe that I can speak for other members of the Labour Party stuff in saying that we all felt the same about her and there are some in the chamber today that did work for the Labour Party with my Noble Friend in Number Ten.

I can think of a number of occasions like if I had a political problem I could bring them up and discuss it with her. And my Noble Friend I know would be called out occasionally there could be some difficulties in Wales. And I know I would always have good advice from her. Whenever the Prime Minister is visiting Wales we would have many conversations on the visits and business was always the visits and business was always successful.

One thing I can say about it, my Noble Friend, she is always approachable, cheerful, always has time for a chat and is always reliable and has made for some very good relationships. I always regarded her as a friend in Number Ten and I certainly look forward to working with her again in your logic tells which I know she is going to a great contribution to and today the debate is focusing on how to promote women's participation and leadership, the science and.

The international day women and girls in science was held on February 11 this year and the general secretary of Unesco said on this international day of women and girls in science we have this fundamental message, women in science and science need women. And tapping into all of our resources of knowledge, new sources of talent, can we unlock the full potential of science and rise to the challenge of our time and I do so much agree with that, but if one looks around we see the same problems of women encounter if they want to succeed in many walks of life, we see the politics and public life where women can be held back not because they are not good enough but the barriers placed before them are very high, they know how difficult it is and what the barriers are and I think most of us here would know whether and there are many with a glass ceiling, the brick wall, disco nation, and the pipeline which is a new one to me and that has come about from women in STEM.

And there is also misogyny which is a very difficult problem, especially these days. It seems to me there is very little difference in what women in any area of public or professional life to experience and the barriers to work out, but there has been some progress in those areas. Now, according to the data from the world economic Forum it will take until 2158 at the current rate of progress to reach gender parity which is what my Noble Friend said in her remarks from the Dispatch Box.

That is an awful long time to wait, so what actions may we take to increase the rate of progress? No, where positive action has been taken there have been some great results. For example, in politics. Before the general election of 2024, 263 women of a 656 in the House of Commons were held by female MPs. This is the highest number of women ever to sit at the same time in the House of Commons. Now, this did not happen by accident.

Over the years, much campaigning has been done to highlight the need for this positive action. Positive action in any field can cause big discussions, disputes, and arguments. And I am so aware of this in politics, especially when all women are introduced to address the underrepresentation of women in the underrepresentation of women in politics. And that did increase the number of women MPs. I would add later other parties added positive measures to ensure that a good number of women candidates, gradually the embers have increased.

And by the general election of 2024 to the now 263 women MPs, the largest number ever, by 2024, all of those shortlisted were not by the Labour Party but since policy has been so successful there was not any need for it. This is one example where action was taken, it worked. Another piece of good news that I saw in the newspapers today, that now for the first time more women doctors than men, and this is women in medicine, so I feel there are some for women in technology.

I was very pleased to learn that the Government has set up the season how to encourage women to study STEM subjects. My Noble Friend Baroness Smith, the Minister for Skills another Minister for Women and Equalities which I congratulate her on. She said that the Government continues to support a take-up of stem subjects in girls and women in higher education. She has said that such skills are crucial for the delivery of the government's mission that they are building on a coherent, flexible, high quality skills system to breakdown barriers to opportunity and to drive economic growth.

And has said that this would be underpinned by a new course 16 education and skills strategy which I believe may be published soon. No, this positive approach by Government has been felt and I await the outcome which should benefit all women and girls who want to progress into a career in STEM subjects. I do look forward to the Minister's

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response. I am delighted to speak today. There are two debates I always There are two debates I always enjoy. One of the Archbishop of Canterbury's debate but there are no appear today because it cannot go any further than that. There has been a lot of progress on female bishops, as my time in the House. And the other debate as we enjoy And the other debate as we enjoy this particular one and I am delighted to follow because it is of delighted to follow because it is of course true that there are a dramatic number of female MPs now dramatic number of female MPs now when I joined, do not need to remind you of one MP, 25 was female, that was quite a tricky time I commend the party opposite but I do not think they have been so successful with female Prime Ministers.

We have had three. I will not comment on all of them. But I will comment on the first one. No, what you do need to hear is that Margaret Thatcher used to say people turn around to me and say you are the first woman Prime Minister in Number Ten, I turn around and say I am the first science Prime Minister in Number Ten and of course she was influenced by that for dangerously Hodgson must fill in the Royal Society members who, for a long time, where principles of that.

A colleague just now challenged me and said that Lord Salisbury said he was a STEM man and he took maths but I am not sure he should really be allowed to undermine Margaret Thatcher's claim. Of course once we have more women we still do not have anything like enough people who come from science, engineering and medical background. I think that 78 in the House of Commons at the last count is an improvement. And lots has always been better for that, how thrilled we are to welcome Lord Vallance and how thrilled we are that his successor is the first female chief scientific officer for Government.

In the Lords we have Baroness King, a fellow of the Lord society. Many more men. And I just paid tribute to Kinsman, Lord Julian Hunt, from the Royal Society who is no longer with us, but is a most distinguished

13:59

Baroness Bottomley of Nettlestone (Conservative)

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scientist, so with that. That is OK. So, with this great triumph of So, with this great triumph of female and not entirely with Baroness Lane-Fox about the range Baroness Lane-Fox about the range and anger I enjoy rage and anger but I quite celebrated re-today because we have a great number of Cabinet Ministers. I do pay tribute to the Ministers. I do pay tribute to the Minister speaking and would ask her to pass on Best wishes to her to pass on Best wishes to her delightful previous owner of the office, the bittersweet nature of political careers, Baroness Dodds is a lovely woman and is doing a very good job.

Then just looking through the other extraordinary women scientists, dear modular laser, the first female head of UKRI. Again, the Royal Society plan societies. Have the CEO of the Royal Academy of engineering, Oxford UCL biochemist, tracing the first Vice Chancellor at Oxford, neuroscientist first female scientist at Oxford, formerly utmost in college, they claim the ward has been taken over as chief of Government scientific advisable look at the June rain, the first woman to run the medicines and healthcare agency.

Absolutely tremendous. And so many others. The campaign for science and engineering who do so much for us now have a female chaff -- Chief Executive. I pay tribute and share the desire that more needs to be done and pay respect to those that have suffered so hard and worked so hard for the past. Read the biography of the first woman physician, 1847, Doctor Blackwell, and the persecution and the positivity -- my property and the In my career life, I have helped a lot of women develop in their careers.

The other day, I was reminded of a particularly remarkable woman who studied engineering and then insisted on going to work at Charter where they had a men only policy. There were no female lavatories so she had to go home to go to the lavatory. And this very remarkable woman is the mother-in-law of former Prime Minister. It is an extraordinary reminder of the sacrifices, discipline and determination. Now, I'm sure we need to do more to encourage THEM at an early stage -- STEM.

I want to pay tribute to the many maiden speeches because there are noble ladies but a great number of them are my friends and I'm absolutely delighted to see them there. For the Minister, she dose about the health service and she knows about education. The role of research in the National Health Service is critically important and it is all too easily squeezed out. Dame Sally Davies, principle of Trinity College Cambridge who should be in this house recently had a magnificent conference about life sciences and health, and what we can do together by collaborating, and I would commend noble Lords to study would commend noble Lords to study

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Dame Sally's studies. I'm grateful to the noble

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I'm grateful to the noble Baroness Smith, new the appointed Baroness Smith, new the appointed Minister for Women and my former esteemed boss, for opening this debate for International Women's Day debate for International Women's Day and I thank in anticipation Baroness Jones of Whitchurch, also a good Jones of Whitchurch, also a good friend. Both my noble friends have a lifelong commitment to tackling

14:03

Baroness Casey of Blackstock (Crossbench)

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lifelong commitment to tackling men's violence against in, for which they should be respected and thanked by the whole house. I thoroughly enjoyed the maiden speeches of my . I wish . I wish well . I wish well to . I wish well to the . I wish well to the next . I wish well to the next three maiden speeches. Each year, in the other place, my dear friend and colleague, the honourable member for Birmingham Yardley names of the women killed in the last 12 months were the principal suspect is a man.

With your kind support and agreement, we in this house this year will also honour those women and their families. I take this opportunity to read the names opportunity to read the names collated by the Femicide Census of girls aged 14 and above. There are four children this year included in the list who have allegedly been killed by men in the past 12 months. Xiu Wang, Pauline Sweeney, Carole Matthews, Ursula Ullman, Tiffany Render, Francis Dwyer, Ruth Baker, Samantha Mikkelberg, Rachel McDade, Lisa Welford, Karen O'Leary, Sonia Muhi, Emma Finch, Margaret Parker, Muhi, Emma Finch, Margaret Parker, Amy grey, Maria Munghara, daily Hawksworth, Joanna Ward, Maxine Hawksworth, Joanna Ward, Maxine Hawksworth, Joanna Ward, Maxine Carr, starlet Vickers, Joanne Samac, Carr, starlet Vickers, Joanne Samac, Simkin, Simkin, Olivia Simkin, Olivia Wood, Simkin, Olivia Wood, Nina Simkin, Olivia Wood, Nina Mitchell, Sophie Watson, Vicky Thomas, Eve McIntire, Brody Macgregor, Briony Goeth, plus her two children, Oscar and Aubrey, Dvina, Graham -- Davina Graham, Rachel Simpson, an unnamed woman who died on 29 September aged 70, Mary Ward, Christine Jefferies, another unnamed woman who died on 8 October, also in her 70s, Luca Bennett Smith, Anita Rose, Rhiannon Sly-White, Sandy Butler, Cheryl McKenna, Carole James, Phoenix Spencer Horne, Alanna Armstrong, Margaret Cunningham, Margaret Hanson, Karen Cummings, Astra Serapina, Gemma Devenish, Joanne Serapina, Gemma Devenish, Joanne Pearson.

Heather Newton, Leila young, Diane Cleary, Megan Hughes, And once again, as I did this time last year, I beg leave of this house to also remember for personal reasons, Nicole Smallman, Biba reasons, Nicole Smallman, Biba Henry, and Sara Everard. Made a, the 95 women mentioned here in the house today and the four children, may today and the four children, may

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they rest in peace. -- may they. I would like to first of all commend Baroness Casey for her commend Baroness Casey for her testimony of the -- for her tragic rollcall of women murdered by men. It makes me realise once again that It makes me realise once again that we should never forget that misogyny is an evil force which leads to is an evil force which leads to often lethal consequences for women and, as she has reminded us, for children.

I thank her for her testimony today. I feel greatly

14:10

Baroness Bousted (Labour)

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testimony today. I feel greatly honoured to be in this house making my maiden speech today. I was born

14:10

Baroness Casey of Blackstock (Crossbench)

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in Bolton, the seventh of eight children in a large, loving,

14:10

Baroness Bousted (Labour)

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children in a large, loving, catholic family. My father was a headmaster of the local Catholic primate school and he had a saying. primate school and he had a saying. You won't inherit money but you will get a good education, which will give you the means to make your way in the world, and all his eight in the world, and all his eight children made their way in the children made their way in the world. My mother, as well as looking after her eight children, was a teacher, so perhaps it is no surprise that I became a teacher, and that my professional life for the past 40 years, all 40 years now, has been in education.

As a teacher, as an academic, and for the last 20 years, as general secretary of the Association of teachers and lecturers and is member of the lecturers and is member of the National education union. Unions fight for rights and I want to pay tribute for all those working to support this place. I have a terrible sense of direction and I'm finding that this house is rather a rabbit warren but all of my request for advice have been met with nothing but courtesy and kindness.

I want to thank noble friends, my supporters in the introduction of this house. And the Leader of the House and the whips who have been so helpful in helping us feel a little bit less strange day by day. When I was 23, I read a book with the title Patriarchal Attitudes. It changed my life. From that time on, I was determined to be self-reliant, to speak what I believed and thought, and to walk more confidently in the world.

I stopped saying, I'm not a feminist but. I started seeing, as a feminist. That is a profound change. Now, there has been some implied criticism of teachers today. I think it is a bit too easy to criticise teachers who do more overtime than any other profession than any other profession. As a teacher, I worked to create a profound sense in my pupils that the sexes are equal and that no one, and in particular no girl, should have her potential constrained through attitudes, belief and actions designed to humiliate them.

But I feel that the progress we made in the 1980s has been reversed. Perhaps, we thought we had won the battle for equality. We were sadly mistaken. In 2017, the National Education Union published a report with UK Feminist. The report detailed the sectors attitudes and behaviours injured by girls in school. Found that sexual harassment, sexist language, and gender stereotyping are commonplace in school settings. Teachers reported feeling unsupported and ill-equipped to respond. Over one third of female students reported that they had experienced some form of sexual harassment and almost 25% had reported being subject to unwanted touching of a sexual nature.

I believe that sexual harassment injured by girls translates to often into subject choices at GCSE and A-level which can have a negative effect on their future careers and learning potential. We should note that the take up of subject which are portals to high wage careers like IT and science rely too much on gender lines. In 2022, only 21.4% of GCSE computer science and 14.7% available computer science objects were taken computer science objects were taken by girls, number which has halved since 2017.

Report found girls more likely than girls to say that they did not enjoy computer science GCSE because it does not align with their because it does not align with their That covers a wider range of topics, applying to a wider population and the needs of society. The Government will surely be announcing the results of its curriculum review, led by Hugh Francis. I hope that this review will consider the current gender imbalances in computing and in other science subjects which are so heavily male dominated.

I will finish with a cautionary tale. In 2016 I spoke about about the sexy school bullying that prevents girls from participating fully in the classroom. The Department for Education then on hearing of my concerns issued a tweet that I will read now. Sorry from ATL union with no evidence of white sexism still exists, we should be celebrating achievements of women and the achievements of women and talents of women and girls. And many others found the implication in this tweet that speaking out about the sexist harassment endured by girls perpetuates the problem to be utterly bizarre.

Of course, we should celebrate the achievements of women and girls, but I am clear that we must also examine the barriers faced by women and girls, including the prevalence of sexist bullying in the classroom which serves as a barrier to their participation in the full range of the curriculum, because girls deserve, as all young people deserve, the right to make choices about the choices they choose to study based on their talents and abilities. Whatever these may be and wherever these may take them in their future lives.

And I will continue to further the equality of women and of girls in education and in the workplace during my time in this House. The struggle for equality is not over. We are just on the nursery steps and we must take it up and continue the fight.

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It is an absolute pleasure to follow that wonderful Maiden speech follow that wonderful Maiden speech from my honourable friend. I think we have all been given a taste of her fierce intellect and education her fierce intellect and education policy expertise which no doubt will enrich this House. As we have heard, enrich this House. As we have heard, the Baroness comes from a big family. In fact if she had wanted to

14:17

Baroness O'Grady of Upper Holloway (Labour)

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she had enough siblings to form her own netball team and have a sub on the bench. I suspect that is one reason why she grew up to become a warrior for women and girls equality and for dignity for all working people. Baroness championed the TC union initiative along with being an absolutely outstanding coleader of her union the National education union. When she was TUC president, the Baroness also took responsibility for chairing the TUC General Council.

Now, as you can imagine, keeping order in a room full of union leaders, each with our own strongly held views is no easy task, but it is, perhaps, I reflect, excellent training for chairing a House of Lords committee in the future. No, International Women's Day, of course it originates in the struggles of working class women. And in my personal experience Baroness bustard is not only on the side of women but she will speak up and get stuck in and she does so with intelligence, wit, and real sisterly kind as.

Today's trade union has incredible talent and expertise within its ranks, educators, engineers, coders, climate scientists, and a growing number of members in new technologies and the gaming industry. We have all seen that extraordinary shift in the organisations capital with technology companies dominating the wealthiest corporations in the world. As well as wealth, big tech has enormous power. Not only to shape our material lives, but also our emotions, our behaviour and politics. When Elon musk provides a mega fund for a legend rapist and people trafficker and rotate and non-far right agitator Steven Lennon a.k.a.

Tommy Robinson, we all have an interest in how this industry is run and regulated. Let's be clear. In this country, we absolutely support freedom of speech. But we draw the line at heat and inciting violence. I have always believed that technology has the potential to be a liberating force that can transform society. Think about that difference it would make if the estimated multibillion-dollar productivity games were shared fairly in the form of decent universal childcare. Shorter working hours or higher pensions.

Imagine if the priority for developing workplace technologies was eliminating, boring and dangerous tasks. And making every job safe, skilled, and satisfying. Women's equality is not just right in principle. It matters because it is about who gets to decide on tech design, rules and priorities. And, in turn, how that impact on all of our dealing knives. For example, one reason why we have seen race and sex discrimination baked into facial recognition technology is because of the very unrepresentative group who designed it.

The tech pros would benefit from having more tech sisters. Too often technology is designed that makes working lives harder. Tracking monitoring staff oppressively. Hiring and firing without a human review. An casualised in the employment contracts. Women and black and ethnic minority individuals are at the sharp end of these high exploitation technologies and antiunion companies. We do not just need to change phases in the industry. We need to change systems of power. According to a recent survey of members working in tech, the professional trade union Prospect found that over 60%, six in 10, agreed that their employers pay system is opaque and likely unfair, so I would like to ask my Noble Friend the Minister is she confident that Labour's Employment Rights Bill will tackle pay secrecy once and for all? So that when Intech workers, like all women workers, can win equal pay for work of equal value? And secondly and finally when purchasing technology services will the Government use its procurement power to lever up equality standards? So that more tech apprenticeships go to young women and so that rights to fair treatment enforced.

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I would like to start by thanking this House for this tradition of International Women's Day debate. It feels especially important this year to keep the spotlight on contributions that so many women make that if we are to continue to make that if we are to continue to make progress towards gender letting around the world. And, of course, I around the world. And, of course, I agree that it is vitally important that women and girls are given every opportunity to study sciences and opportunity to study sciences and technologies if that is what they want, as my Noble Friend and a stubborn Scott expressed so stubborn Scott expressed so eloquently.

As we can see from today's news there are now more female doctors for the first time ever in this country. And as colleagues in noble Baronesses already showed there are many examples of the amazing contributions that women have made Diane confident will continue to make in the fields of technology, science and medicine. And as has been pointed out we need more women at the technology table which may well be a virtual one these days to help avoid bias and bringing women's perspectives to the floor as additional revolution prospects.

And I want to add an additional point in today's discussion and that is that while we must continue to enable young girls to study stem subjects we must also encourage those girls who want to study humanities to pursue their interest. For a start, real progress for women and girls surely is about having more choice, not being about channelled down a certain path. I also believe that this role is more important than ever in an AI world because as AI

14:25

Baroness Morrissey (Conservative)

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continues to rapidly develop and take on many of the tasks currently done by human beings, including many of those done by people working in technology, the good judgement, strong ethics, high emotional intelligence, is required to ensure that AI is a positive force. The that AI is a positive force. The perspective that comes from studying mistakes made in history, the sensitivity found in the finest sensitivity found in the finest literature. The empathy gained through understanding psychology, through understanding psychology, the strong ethical compass that might be helped by a study of theology, and the creativity that so many arts and humanities disciplines.

First I studied maths, further maths, physics and English at A-level and then philosophy at university. And I have to say that of all of those, the philosophy has been most useful in my career. Yes, even in finance. Yes, maths has of course been helpful, but really not as critical at helping you manage money successfully run a business well than being able to analyse logically, challenge conventional wisdom, apply ethical judgements, and have some understanding of the frailties of the human psyche which are the areas of successful investing.

And those are all things that my philosophy degree taught me. I would also suggest to lead, not just because it has shown very clearly that I do not have all of the answers, in fact you quickly learn that you do not really know anything at all. I was acutely aware that as her late Majesty Queen Elizabeth II put it leadership is often about finding ways of encouraging people to combine their talents to work together and I suggest a history degree and the study of current affairs but also further that out.

For decades, as has been noted, boys have dominated the computer science, physics and further maths at A-level, while girls have dominated many subjects including psychology, sociology and English literature. I suggest that the world, our country, many industries, need both. And they do not need girls to feel they need boys to succeed. Women bring our own skills to the table and I always tell young women they are not second-class men, their first-class women. And it would be ironic if just as the world desperately needs more soft skills, as we say, we ask girls to become more like boys by taking those subjects and miss their moment both shine and to change the world for the better.

Because as others have already stressed we now face a very significant threat and we cannot assume we will have ongoing progress for women and girls, but we do have agency. And one of our strongest arguments to convince the naysayers is surely that would bring additional talents and different perspectives to the table which can improve diversity, business performance, and help today's problems be solved that require empathy and emotional intelligence. Ensure women should be able to succeed as women.

So, huge kudos to the million women scientists, technologists, the Muppet let encourage adding a to STEM, celebrating the achievements of women in every field, the progress with huge determination that no one can take away from us and I look forward with hope and I wish everyone, man and woman, a very happy International Women's Day.

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I draw attention to my interests in the academic nursing as Professor of nursing policy at King's College of nursing policy at King's College London. My heartfelt thanks to my Noble Friend the Baroness Smith Noble Friend the Baroness Smith Leader of the House for her incredible support up to and during incredible support up to and during my introduction. And generally throughout. The Noble Lady and also my honourable friend Baroness my honourable friend Baroness Watkins of Tavistock, fellow nurse and academic, has been exemplary as and academic, has been exemplary as my supporter.

And introduction agency to the House throughout. My Noble Friend has been so kind in shepherding me around the House and easing me into its ways. I come to this House as a nurse and academic. Reading the brilliant biography by the late Baroness Patricia Hollis of Jenny Lee, one of my heroines. I could never have imagined speaking to you today. Like Jenny Lee, I was brought up in Fife, Kirkaldy, in fact, birthplace of Adams, and constituency to my other hero, Gordon Brown both Jenny Lee's father and mind worked in the coalfields of Fife.

It was a tough life. I remember my dad cycling Seafield pit in all weathers, coming home for a rest and a bite to eat before going out again to his second job in a local pub. My mother trained as a nurse in the 1930s and during World War II in the civil nursing reserve. And she inspired me to enter nursing through her stories of nursing prisoners of war in Bridge of earn I loved delving into her textbooks,

14:30

Baroness Rafferty (Labour)

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devouring the gruesome details of disease but also became fascinated by the practices of the past, firing by the practices of the past, firing my imagination both for nursing and my imagination both for nursing and its history. Now, nursing is a science as well as an art. And I've been fortunate to work in a variety been fortunate to work in a variety of work macros as the -- a variety of work macros as the -- a variety of roles as a clinician in -- as a of roles as a clinician in -- as a clinician and researcher.

I spent rather too much time outside the headmaster's office, skipping classes and referring the pool hall in which I became very proficient to homework -- preferring. Today's debate is highly relevant to nursing. Not only was international nursing forged in the crucible of the international women's movement but the rational in doing so was in part to combat prejudice surrounding women's education by setting nursing on a scientific footing. Nursing in England has become a graduate subject since 2013 but its fate remains precarious, situation made much worse by the increasing financial frailty of the university sector.

It is estimated that over 70% of our universities will be in deficit next year. In Wales, nurse recruitment has fallen by 14%. Yet, recent announcement by Cardiff University stated its intention to close the school of nursing. Particularly concerning is the steady, downward trend of mature applicants to nursing. Now, these numbers just don't compute in a scenario of chronic shortage of nursing staff. And landmark study that we published in the Lancet in 2014, demonstrated that bachelors prepared nurses have better rates in terms of mortality.

A further study demonstrated that senior nurses Darren Rama contributed more than twice the benefit to patients compared to more junior colleagues. Investing in nurse education, and staffing yields clinical and economic benefits, reducing hospital stay and facilitating return to work. I'm grateful for the excellent report from the all-party Parliamentary group on global health, chaired by the noble Lord Lord Crisp, which identified the triple impact of growing nursing globally. These include strengthening health systems, universal health coverage, gender equality and women's participation in the workforce and skilled employment opportunities.

But the engine room of the academic workforce is not in good shape. It is estimated that more than 50% of the workforce are over 50, with many universities really struggling. In contrast, applications to engineering are brimming. With that help to boost the standing of the profession by designating nursing as a STEM discipline. I'm sure the Minister will agree that we cannot deliver the first workforce plan or the tenure NHS plan to come unless we support nurse education to secure the students, nurse scientists and clinicians of the future.

I thank my noble friend the Minister for racing this debate and hope these points might assist with the planning the government is undertaking.

14:35

Lord Macdonald of River Glaven (Crossbench)

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Baroness Rafferty on her wonderful maiden speech. She is as qualified maiden speech. She is as qualified to speak about women succeeding in science as I am unqualified. She has done so many pioneering things in done so many pioneering things in nurse education. I must confine myself to but a few of them. The myself to but a few of them. The first nurse to graduate with a first nurse to graduate with a doctorate from Oxford University. In 2008, she was seconded to the Department of Health to work with Lord Darzi on next stage a review of the NHS.

A member of the Prime Minister's Commission on the future of nursing and between 2009 and 2010 -- nursing and made midwifery. A past president of the Royal College of Nursing. And was nominated as one of Nursing. And was nominated as one of the 70 most influential nurses in the 70 years of the NHS. She was a member of the Times newspaper health commission in 2023 to 2024. She holds degrees and honorary degrees from a range of universities. And closer to home for me was Dean of the Florence Nightingale Faculty of Nursing and Midwifery and Palliative Care at King's College.

I was a fellow of King's College in the 90s and I was proud to share. I hope that Baroness Rafferty doesn't mind if I bask in her reflected glory. And her analysis of what has happened in nurse education and training have some remarkable parallels with what has happened in teacher education and training, a subject which I do know a bit about. So nurse Rafferty, Professor Rafferty, Dame Anne Marie Rafferty, Baroness Rafferty, I'd like to thank

14:37

Baroness Donaghy (Labour)

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all for review for your maiden speech and to thank you in anticipation of the distinguished contribution you will make in this contribution you will make in this house. Turning to the subject of house. Turning to the subject of today's debate, I should first of all like to say happy International all like to say happy International all like to say happy International Women's Day for 8 March and to all participants and to thank the five maiden speeches made or to be made.

maiden speeches made or to be made. Firstly, Baroness Browning, who has just finished term of office as a distinguished chair of the Science and Technology Committee -- Browne, recently called for the government to review the burden of Visa fees. They are higher than any comparable They are higher than any comparable country and Baroness Browne, herself an engineer, said that the barriers faced by postgraduate students and early career researchers amounted to an act of national self-harm.

Since 2022, the cost of a five year skilled worker Visa has increased by 22% to almost £12,000 and the upfront immigration health surcharge -- surcharge which they also have to pay, has risen by 66% to £1035. As the noble Lady the Minister able to tell us what steps the government is taking to attract much-needed scientific talent to this country? -- is the noble Lady. The noble Lady Baroness Smith talked about a strong pipeline of qualified students into HE and careers in THEM -- STEM areas.

However, an announcement was made on 29 January about changes to the advanced mathematics support programme. It means that from 1 April, there will be a reduction in the number and type of events available, similarly, the government is cutting the stimulating physics network and commuting -- computing hubs. MEI which runs the program has been forced to terminate the coordinator contracts. Now, I appreciate that we have taken over an education service with a history of underfunding and neglect but is the noble Lady the Minister able to give more information about how the government will mitigate the effects of these cuts? The UK has the largest female health gap in the G20 and the Royal College of Obstetricians and Gynaecologists has stated that the upcoming 10 year health plan and Spending Review 2025 are a good opportunity for the government to deliver on their manifesto promise that never again will women's health be neglected.

For every 1 pound additional investment in obstetrician and gynaecological services, it is estimated that there is an £11 return on investment. Absenteeism due to severe period pain, heavy periods, endometriosis, fibroids, and variances is estimated to cost £11 billion per year to the UK economy -- ovarian cysts. As the Royal College says, supporting women's health is vital to the U.K.'s targets of economic growth and increasing the workforce. The PwC women network analysis said that continuing progress on female participation rate of sustained -- sorry, if it is sustained up to 2030, could contribute to a productivity uplift of .3% at -- per annum.

And appropriate UK GDP increase of six And appropriate UK GDP increase of 6 million a year. Would the Minister be able to update the house on steps the government is taking to increase women's participation in the workforce? Finally, it has been an absolute privilege to take part in this debate, not just to celebrate International Women's Day but for our five maiden speeches.

14:42

Baroness Greenfield (Crossbench)

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I thank Baroness Smith for drawing attention to this time the issue and I declare an interest as the founder and CEO of a biotech company, having previously been a professor of pharmacology at Oxford University. Back in 2002, I was asked by Patricia Hewitt to prepare for the then Department of industry to outline the difficulties of recruitment of women in science. Sadly, over 20 years later, I feel that many of those difficulties we discussed then still remain.

The question of women in science and technology is not just about fairness, it is about progress. Studies consistently show that diversity drives innovation. Companies in the top quartile for gender diversity are more likely to be successful. Diversity translates into better problem-solving, faster discoveries, and serve society -- and products that serve society more effectively. History proves that when women thrive in science and technology, humanity benefit. The systemic challenges remain. UK higher education, only 30% of professors were in.

In the STEM workforce overall, it is also low. The number of female founders remains as proportionately low. Even more disappointing, women founders such as myself receive only 2% of venture capital investment, while funding is critical in innovation. One of the greatest barriers to women in STEM is bias, both conscious and unconscious. Faculty members rate mail applicants as more competent. More recently, report found that women are less likely... Recruitment processes and strengthened criteria should be at the core.

A second challenge is parroting responsibilities. The years when science is must publish their most important report coincides with when many are Here we could take a lesson from forwardthinking companies in the Returning to research after career breaks was a Government funded bodies introduce similar schemes in academia, for example a grant specifically designed to support those re-entering the field after maternity. Such initiatives would ensure women can get back to their research without undue and unfair hurdles that arise to beating to the next generation, meanwhile tax incentives could encourage companies to offer more flexible Cleopatra women in STEM.

Then there is a lack of visibility and working opportunities. Women particularly in male dominated fields often lack the mentorship sponsorship that helped propel careers forward, so every major research institution should have, sponsorship programs where they actively champion the careers of women scientists and could introduce eight national women in stem talent, a centralised platform for women in science and to access mentorship funding opportunities, leadership training, in the spirit of the Athena Swan charter but much wider and encompassing the private sector.

Finally, the root of all these challenges is early engagement. If young girls do not see themselves in STEM they may never consider it as a viable path. Research shows that gender stereotypes about science.to form as early as primary school. Schools could partner with female scientists and engineers to provide visible role models. And, critically, we must change the narrative by making the aforementioned solutions as prominent as we can. Rather than framing STEM as an uphill battle for women, we must presented as a field where women are thriving and driving the future.

International Women's Day should not just be a moment of reflection but a call to action. We know what works. Transparent hiring. Structured return to work programs. Active sponsorship and early engagement. It is time to implement these solutions at scale. The talent is there. The ambition is there. It is now up to us, the policymakers, industry leaders, and educators, and female scientists, to breakdown the barriers that remain first by doing so, we will not only achieve the quality, but unlock the full potential of science and to change the world for the better and ensure that the UK continues in its role the forefront of driving the technology of tomorrow.

technology of tomorrow.

14:47

Lord Jones of Penybont (Labour)

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I rise this afternoon to make this might Maiden speech entities might misfortune to follow for excellent Maiden speech is. I just hope that I can maintain the high standard that has already been established. And before I move on to the subject matter of this debate I would like to offer my thanks to all of those who have made my first month your so easy to navigate. I would like to thank those that have been patient engaging me around the building and the numerous corridors that can bewilder a new member.

My thanks as well to the Parliamentary staff who have supported me through my induction and to buy party colleagues on the front branch team who have been so willing to explain the rules and regulations of this noble house. I would be particularly struck by the kind of so many who work here and that welcome that has been extended to me. At my introduction on 27 January I was supported by my Noble Friend Lord Murphy and Baroness Wilcox of Newport. People who I have known and respected for many years.

It is an honour to have them by my side. I am grateful for the support I have received. Most of them were here at my introduction but my father was unable to attend because of illness. I know he would have been delighted to have been here, as my mother would have been more but we lost her some 15 years ago. I would like to give my thanks to my children who have had to put up with their father being away so much during their childhood, they have been hugely supportive in everything I have done.

And, of course, I want to thank my wife, Lisa, for 30 years of marriage. She has been a good sense of support to me even when I was away so much when the children were younger. She has enabled me to develop a political career and I do not think I would have done that if it was not for the steadfast love it was not for the steadfast love and support. I count myself as a member of the fortunate generation compared to those that went before.

My family before me consisted mainly of four generations of Welsh speaking mining families. A legacy of which I am proud. It was the minor strike that brought me into politics and I think of them today as I stand here having enjoyed many opportunities simply not available to them. I still live in the town of Bridgend in Welsh, hence the title, where I was brought up 18 years ago and went to study law at Aberystwyth University, a developer that would have stunned my student self.

I practised at the bar in Swansea for 10 years and in 1999 I had the honour to be elected to represent my home area enabled that was then called the General Assembly for Wales and in 2,000 began a term of 18 consecutive years in Government, in various ministerial roles as well as first Minister for nine years. It was a privilege to be part of the 2011 referendum campaign when they overwhelmingly voted in favour of primary powers for their assembly. Ours that we used to create legislation that I would argue is groundbreaking.

You will be relieved I will not list all the acts that were passed during my time as the first monster but I will draw your attention to one, the human transplantation Wales act which changed law on consent, introducing a soft opt out scheme. This has led to more organs being available. Not just in Wales but across the UK for transplant patients. There are literally people walking around and I've today because of that legislation. It is the one piece of legislation that I am particularly proud of.

I do want to say that I am the first head of Government in the UK to have come from a comprehensive school. As a matter of pride to myself or to matter that must be something of concern because we know that the schools attended by the past majority have not contributed as they should have done to Government in the UK. Could I turned into the subject matter of the debate? I mentioned earlier of the opportunities that I had that were not available for my grandparents.

This afternoon I think of my mother that died four years ago at the age of 90 and this is a cautionary tale to those that claim that grammar schools are the pathways to opportunity by themselves. She lived at a time when opportunity for women and girls was strictly limited. She passed what was then called that scholarship in 1925 and went to the grammar school but the reality was as the daughter of a Hollier in the pit she had no option other than to leave school and get married and indeed she did leave and live a long and happy life but I cannot help but think she might have done if she had the opportunities that I was afforded which stem subjects might she have studied.

It is her example that drives me to ensure that as much opportunity is affordable to as many people as possible. And her story is one of many and I aware that while some progress has been that while some progress has been made in encouraging women to take up stem subjects there is still work to do. Progress has been made in the natural sciences. There is a glaring gap to men and women in maths, engineering, and computer science. The difference here is stark.

In IT, five times more men are employed than women. According to the office of National statistics. That gap increases to a ratio of 10 to one in engineering. I know that there are schemes to encourage more young people to study the subject and I would draw your Lordships houses attention to the work of the engineering education scheme in Wales, originally set up to encourage young people between the ages of 16 and 18 to take engineering related subjects. They prepare young people with businesses, work with them on projects, getting them a taste of engineering as a career.

And their workers also focus on encouraging more young women to study engineering in order to bridge that huge imbalance in the sector. It is clear there is more to be done. More needs to be done to remove those barriers to women entering and staying in stem related employment. And I welcome my Noble Friend the minister's words in this debate this afternoon. She outlined steps the Government is taking to address this issue but it still seems to me that there is a cultural bias in our society that sees engineering and IT as male jobs.

And the steps the Government has outlined to help to overlying -- might overcome this problem. In conclusion, progress has been made, but any country that wishes to maximise its talent pool must provide help to overcome barriers that hinder that objective. If I could use an idiom from the Welshman which which I will translate into English so as not to cause panic amongst those recording my words today, the situation is (SPEAKING IN WELSH), the situation is good but not so good that it cannot be improved on, especially compared with the recent past.

We have heard stories within this debate about the disadvantage and barriers that so many women experienced in past decades. We must overcome those barriers. That is the challenge for the UK and it is one that all of us in society must play

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a role in meeting. (SPEAKING IN WELSH) an excellent

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(SPEAKING IN WELSH) an excellent speech and a sign of things to come and congratulations to all my Noble Friends. What a wonderful bunch we Friends. What a wonderful bunch we have now. I am so glad to be part of this group. And I am delighted to be part and able to admit all observations of Lord Jones is observations of Lord Jones is immense dedication to public life in Wales. And now able to make contributions to the whole of the UK from a seat in your Lordships house.

We first met by chance when we sat next to each other in the audience of Question Time which which was being filmed in Cardiff in October 1998. He was a councillor in Bridgend at the time and we discussed our politics as we waited for the program to begin. Little did I think that almost 20 years later we would be sharing challenging discussions over the future of Welsh councils when I was the W LGA leader and he was first Minister. However, we always resolve those matters through such talks because of the openness and transparency local Government found when dealing with the Welsh Government.

This was in direct contrast to what my LGA colleagues in England were experiencing. We also had similar start in life. The miners strike of 84/85, when we both became politically active. In his autobiography, he says, "What drove me into politics was that determination that whole communities of workers up and down the UK should never be treated that way again. " And he has put that sentiment into practice time and time again. Through his dedicated leadership of Wales in all of his roles.

Culminating in almost 1 decade of our first Minister. I was sitting behind Lady Jones or Elisa as I know her, and children, when out of the blue carbon announced that Welsh

14:57

Baroness Wilcox of Newport (Labour)

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Labour Party conference in 2018 that he was stepping down as FM. There was an audible intake of breath from was an audible intake of breath from the delegates. As it had been exceptionally well kept secret. Not exceptionally well kept secret. Not an easy thing to do in Wales. I could not commend more highly Lord Jones into this House. He will make a valuable contribution in the years ahead. I and protocol him a colleague and my honourable friend. colleague and my honourable friend.

-- And proud. Thinking about my contribution to this International Women's Day debate, as a lifelong education minister, former teacher and member of MU, I believe strongly in the importance of women's participation in science and, the STEM subjects. But I am absolutely passionate about this Governments mission to extend STEM into steam. With once again the inclusion of arts into the curriculum and a much greater focus than the absence of creative and artistic learning than about children and young people have had in that sector.

I know this Labour Governments mission, a high standards for all, and to breakdown the barriers to opportunity, committing to ensure that outcome music and drama, a return to their rightful use within the curriculum. In Wales, we have had the opportunity with the devolved education system to be driven into such a narrow focus of the English back and progress eight. Which is, effectively, restricting creative arts objects for the majority of young people. In Wales, our new curriculum was published in May 2019.

Express about became one of the six areas of learning. And included dance, drama, film and digital media, music and physical and visual arts, linked by a common creative process and transferable skills. By contrast, in England, GCSE and A-level entries for arts courses have plummeted in the state school sector since the back was introduced in 2011. The FA remained buoyant in the private sector as public schools could devise a curriculum which suits their individual school, without fear of the performance tables measures and the Ofsted inspections which are based upon them.

It is, therefore, to be greatly welcomed that the government's current curriculum assessment review will seek to deliver this product curriculum and I urge my Noble Friend to look at how we have done this in Wales. The budget, put a welcome two point, put a welcome 2.3 billion into schools next year, delivering on this Governments commitment to an Governments commitment to an Turning to the focus of the debate, women's participation and leadership, I had no idea Baroness Rafferty was going to talk about Jenny Lee but I will, too.

Last year marked 60 years since Jenny Lee, the first ever Minister for the arts, published The First Steps, a paper on the arts which was a remarkable example of leadership. She insisted that the art should be central to everyday life and publicly supported it for the benefit of all. Hogwarts, "In any civilised community, the arts should occupy a central place and should not be remote from everyday life." Last week the culture secretary delivered the inaugural Jenny Lee lecture and said the fight paper stated unequivocally the belief of the Wilson government in the power of the arts to transform society and lives and financed investment that was to begin to fix the foundation of arts venues, museums, libraries, and heritage centres across the country.

The green shoots of recovery. However welcome the investment is, it is evident that women are underrepresented and undervalued in the creative industry workforce and it is up to all of us, women and men alike, to challenge the status quo and push for change. It's reminiscent of the struggles we face in the political world when looking for equality of opportunity at the elected level. It would be remiss of me not to take this moment to mark the enormous achievements of my noble friend, Baroness Gale, who faced enormous barriers when advocating for a balanced core part of the Welsh assembly.

The strength and tenacity pushed these changes through an representation in Wales change from inequality to equality and this remains steadfast for 25 years. Let's learn from this great example and within the creative industry demonstrate the need to amplify the voices and talents of women and recognise the incredible contribution that they make. With a diversity of roles, we can create a brighter and more vibrant future for the industry which truly values represent the incredible range of talent, experience, perspective that women bring to the table.

Creativity is all around us, in ourselves and others, and influences and shapes our lives from beginning to end. The promotion of women in all spheres, scientific, technological, creative, political, makes for a better world. When we see ourselves I run the table, and someone once told me, if you do not find yourself in the seat at the table, bring a folding chair.

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I am very pleased to part in this debate and to follow my honourable debate and to follow my honourable friend and, of course, all B5 maidens because I'd listened to with great interest. I don't think I've great interest. I don't think I've ever taken part in a debate with ever taken part in a debate with five midden speakers before and I think from what I have heard they will enrich the House for years to come. It's also a pleasure to take come.

It's also a pleasure to take come. It's also a pleasure to take part, not that I have not taken part in this debate before, because I have done so every time I could, but because the official title is

15:04

Viscount Stansgate (Labour)

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something I have sought to raise since I started and that is the role since I started and that is the role of women in science and I do so again. I start with a central again. I start with a central The first British person in space? I ask this question and I've been asking people I meet in casual conversation in the lead up to the conversation in the lead up to the debate at the answer I get is Tim Peake and people might remember him from being in the International Space Station and he was chased through it by somebody dressed as a gorilla that is fine and there is nothing wrong with that, except that it is wrong.

The first British person in space was Helen Sharman who was aged 27 in 1981 and became the first astronaut to travel into space from Projects Juno and was chosen from 37 applicants. In 2025, too often, the scientific achievements of women are not sufficiently recognised when women are overlooked, underrepresented, even erased from history. Take Ada Lovelace. For years, she was ignored, unknown, and yet she was involved in the work of the engine of Charles Babbage and she realised the potential of the advice extended beyond mere numbers and this thought to be the world Parks first computer programmer and NHS on our passports.

I am grateful to all these scientific societies who sent me a briefing for the debate today. I cannot deal with all the information I've got but I mentioned the Institute of Physics, This Illogical Society, Society for Radiological Protection, Mine Society Trip provided me with helpful briefings provided me with helpful briefings and I thank the House of Lords for the brief and that means I do not to labour the House the statistics provided by the library.

I declare an interest. My department was created to utilise the experience of boffins, the term used in those days, with the war effort the first report was on the nutritional value of brown bread. I mention this because the Nutrition Society wrote to me to say that shortly afterwards a group of people, old men, got together and founded the Nutrition Society and now the position has been transformed and 75% of the members are women and they have identified seven significant women in the field of worldwide importance.

The Society of Radiological Protection wrote to me to say visible female leader supported in key leadership roles has been instrumental in encouraging more women to be active and that their own counsel is now 50/50. That is some progress. Having more women involved in mathematics is a wide range of benefits from different perspectives and problems, increased innovation and research, and tackling potential bias and algorithms which is particularly important in the field of AI. The Campaign for Mathematical Sciences said there is chronic underrepresentation of women and women account for 40% of A-level students, 37% of graduates, 21% of pH these, and only 12% are professors and this is true across the sciences and the commission of which I am a member had a special set en masse on Tuesday of a.

Take physics, Marie Curie was the first woman to win the Nobel Prize and won it on two separate occasions, the first person to do so. The Institute of Physics says there is a well- known problem with girls being underrepresented and many women think the subject is not for them and hearing outdated stereotypes from family members and teachers. The representative from Cambridge she was already mentioned mentions, "Stereotypical behaviour directed towards a child will tend to lead to that child developing those stereotypical responses." A parent or teacher who says that girls cannot do maths will be providing a message that children internalise the methods are not neutral and they will be imbibed and I like to be material to decisions a child makes about what is appropriate for them to do a little years.

There are some improvements reported and that has also been mentioned but the proportion of women studying physics has increased. The Society for Chemical Industry says gender balance is improving in science but says women continue to be underrepresented in mathematical jobs which is similar to mathematics. The Physiological Society has a helpful briefing on a wide range of subjects that I cannot mention. What can we do? First, we must encourage young girls to explore there without fear.

-- STEM. I am a grandparent and I've been watching a lot of Peppa Pig and the mummy pig is pregnant and I think there is something to be said for getting in touch with program makers of this kind to make sure the development of the storylines, young people, pigs, are given every possible encouragement to do whatever they like. This idea that it is not for them can't be ruled out. We must that an environment that supports women in science.

Finally, can I invite everyone next Tuesday to the STEM for Britain event is being held and there are many representative coming to the House and it will be competitive and they will bring their research work and these are the creme de la creme of the new generation and we must encourage them and seven out of the last 10 winners of the top medal have been women and I call that means there is some progress.

15:11

Baroness Smith of Llanfaes (Plaid Cymru)

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It is a privilege to take part in this debate to mark International Women's Day. Firstly, I would like to congratulate all those who gave their maiden speech today. In particular, I look forward to working with Lady Alexander and Lord Jones of Penybont to further devolution, (SPEAKS WELSH). I look forward to working with you. As a belt, I look forward to helping the contribution of Welsh woman internationally. A group of courageous women in Wales embark on a campaign of peace five years after the Second World War that will become a symbol of peace and unity.

It began its journey in 1933 and was the brainchild of a group of determined women. This petition spanned 7 miles in length and was signed by was signed by 390,300 90,296 Welsh woman and was carried across the Atlantic in an oak chest by four remarkable women. Among those signatories was my great, great grandmother. It is remarkable to think that in 2023, 100 years after it was first signed, this petition returned to Wales and was digitised for the world to see at the National Library of Wales and they look forward to visiting an upcoming exhibition in Bangor.

This campaign and the women who initiated highlighted the long history of Welsh women engaging in global qualities. It is critically reflect on their example as we discussed the role of women in the world today. We must consider the current state of global affairs. Just last week, while the Defence budget received a significant increase, we learned the international aid budget will be reduced by £6 billion a year. This is a troubling shift and one that disproportionately affects women and girls around the world.

We must carefully consider the impact of these cuts on some of the most pressing challenges that women face globally including sexual and reproductive health and rights. When we discussed the rights of women and girls are particularly sexual and reproductive health, we cannot ignore the role that STEM has played in 11 for advances that benefit women's health and also provide greater autonomy, allowing women to make informed choices about the reproductive health. The development of contraceptive methods, fertility treatments, safe childbirth procedures has given women more control over reproductive choices and their futures.

In addition to medical breakthroughs, the role of technology cannot be overstated. Telemedicine, for example, allows women in rural areas to access services remotely and mobile apps help women to track menstrual cycles, fertility windows, pregnancy progress, further empowering them to make informed decisions. I must emphasise that the health data that women share on these apps must be protected by tech companies and not sold on. I share the concern that the Baroness Shephard about the anti-abortion laws in the US.

Tech companies must not be allowed to weaponise fertility tracking maps to weaponise fertility tracking maps to Data science has played a crucial role in shaping public health policies. Despite these remarkable advancements, significant challenges remain. In many low income and rural areas across the globe, access to sexual and reproductive health services is limited. Stigmas continue to hinder open discussions and gender disparities in STEM fields restrict the contributions of women reproductive health research and innovation.

To overcome these barriers, we must invest in STEM education for young girls and women, ensuring that their voices and perspectives are represented in the research and innovations that shape policies. STEM has transformed sexual and reproductive health, making it safer, more effective and more accessible. It has given women greater autonomy and allowed for the development of life-saving medication. We must continue to harness the power of STEM to alleviate poverty and contribute to the economic and social development globally.

As we see cuts to the overseas development assistance budget, I urge His Majesty's Government to recognise that investing in sexual and reproductive health and rights is not only morally imperative but highly cost- effective. Research in these areas has the potential to yield substantial returns, £100 for every substantial returns, £100 for every pound invested. Too close, will His Majesty's Government consider re- ring fencing funding within the aid budget? Women and girls across the globe deserve the chance to thrive and it is our responsibility to make sure they have the tools and support they need to do so.

they need to do so.

15:17

Baroness Morgan of Drefelin (Labour)

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It is a great pleasure to rise and take part in this debate today. I would like to congratulate the noble Lady the Minister for making this debate possible and pay tribute to my noble friend who has given Maiden speech to date and really have raised the bar on that. It has been a real pleasure to hear so much about the history and what has brought them to the House of Lords. I wanted to pay tribute to three remarkable groups of women who I believe play a vital role in promoting women's participation in science.

The first and most important group has to be those STEM teachers, women who teach STEM subjects in primary and secondary schools. I also want to pay tribute to the women who lead medical research charities. That is an area I would like to touch on. And then I would like to touch on. And then talk a little bit about patient advocates who are almost entirely women, who have campaigned tirelessly for there to be funding and a focus on scientific research of interest to women.

So, we have heard a lot about Welsh women in this debate, it is a pleasure for me to build on that and talk about my mother, who was a science teacher. She also came from Leith and she grew up in a very strong, close, working class community and had real issues trying to get funding that she needed to get to university so that she could go on and become a teacher and teach science in some of the toughest schools in the UK.

She enabled me and my sister to go into scientific related careers. Yes, I agree with the noble Lady, Rafferty, I would classify the career of my sister, who became a specialist nurse, as a scientist, the research she supported was quite incredible. I want to pay tribute to those role models, those women who have been teachers in those difficult classrooms and in wonderful educational settings who have been role models and encouraged girls to go into science, to do those science A-levels and go on to university or apprenticeships.

To take their careers further. We know that role models are really important here, still, we see a situation where only at top 40% of STEM subject teachers are women. Much more to do, and much more... I believe, if we get the level up, we will see the interests of young girls sparked to become the scientists of tomorrow. Inspired by my mother, I went on to study science at university, after a dalliance with student politics, during the miners' strike, that fits that list.

My career took me into the medical research charity sector. As Baroness emphasised, we have to think about financials, the funding, I think it is important to note, today, the medical research charities in this country contribute about 1.7 billion to medical research, they found around 60% of the U.K.'s public investment in cancer and cardiovascular research. And they are led by women in many cases. It is around 40% of the members of the Association of Medical Research Charities, including the AMRC, they are led by women.

These are important funding bodies for science. Notable leaders would include Charmaine Griffiths, the chief executive of the British Heart Foundation, Michelle Mitchell, the Chief Executive of Cancer Research UK and Claire Ryan, my successor at breast cancer. These charities engage in practical activities to support women in science. Programs involving funding and recruiting and helping women to return to science after they have taken time out, often to have a family. We know this is vital, but they can only do what they do because of the incredible work and the incredible support that they get from so many patient advocates and I wanted to pay tribute, finally, to the role of patient advocates, one, for example, Tessa, who campaigned in her last weeks of life to improve the focus of research on brain cancer-free.

Thousands of women, I have seen firsthand, campaigning to raise funds to establish a breast cancer research centre, which has now become the best in the world. We know that women want to work in areas of science that are focused on areas of concern to women themselves and by enhancing the resources that are made available for these areas, I believe we will also encourage science. science.

15:23

Baroness Goudie (Labour)

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My Lords, I rise today to support Baroness Smith, who I wish to congratulate on being made Minister for Women, in addition to other for Women, in addition to other activities. Also, I would like to congratulate colleagues with their maiden speeches today. In particular, Hannes Alexander and Baroness Hunter. They are my friends, they know all of my bad points, they all have good points but they have no me too long. I would like to declare an interest which is relevant to today's debate.

And also an active activist in global women aged, which is amongst the many things they do, women engineers who have worked in AI and other issues, they have been going for about three years. Coming to International Women's Day, which I congratulate everyone on this great day, I hope we have more speakers next year from Iran has. Celebrating next year from Iran has. Celebrating the initiatives in science and technology, both in the UK and around the world. This occasion is not only a celebration of achievement but a reminder of the critical role that women play in securing peace and shaping the future, especially as this transition into the AIA.

For centuries, women have been the bedrock of peaceful communities, acting as mediators, advocates of justice and inclusion. Their involvement in the peace process has been showing results. In conflict zones across the globe, women have taken on roles traditionally reserved for men. They are clearing landlines, neutralising unexploded bombs, and destroying weapons. Women are instrumental in helping -- helping communities to recover and rebuild. Their roles as peace builders, decision-makers, and caregivers demonstrate that when women lead piece, peace is more resilient.

At the same time, we are witnessing a transformation in technology. Digital and AI innovations are reshaping every aspect of our lives. From the way that we communicate to how governments serve their citizens. Yet these systems grow even more influential, there is a danger they might perpetuate bias. It is imperative, therefore, that women are not merely participants but they are the engineers and architects of this digital revolution. Their insight, through then lift experiences, are essential to ensure that technology systems are fair and serve citizens equally.

Considering the pioneering work of one doctor at MIT whose work on algorithm biases have exposed how technology can inadvertently reinforce gender and racial prejudices. Similarly, the work of Kate Crawford, critically assessing the impact of machine learning, has challenged us to rethink our ethical framework, in the United Kingdom, leaders have been at the forefront of promoting inclusivity in computer science, laying a strong foundation to a digital future that reflects our shared values. Statistics- under score the urgency of our mission.

They have shown that whilst men dominate STEM subjects, women lead in psychology, medicine, dentistry and allied medical subjects. Yet women are less likely to start an apprenticeship in the STEM fields. An analysis revealed that women account to just 17% of engineering and technological related apprenticeships, we must put more pressure on schools to tell people about STEM and have more visitors from these backgrounds. Of course, the education organisation in the House. This is vital.

The engineering and technology related apprenticeships starts in England compared with 52% in all subjects. Figures from 2016 indicates that women represent 29% of engineering manufacturers and construction graduates and 30% of ICT graduates. Versus 57% in natural sciences, mathematics and statistics. Furthermore, STEM women are highlighting the lack of representation of women in STEM. Education impacts the workforce, calling for more initiatives to encourage women to study STEM, translating it into the workforce.

The rapid regression of technology offers a unique opportunity to level the playing field, digital platforms and AI can dismantle traditional barriers. Broadening access to education, employment and civic engagement. In every community, from conflict zones to urban centres, women have shown exceptional resilience and an ability to bolster dialogue and empathy. Participation in building a digital future will only enhance this innovation and ensure the systems they create are both equitable and compassionate. In conclusion, promoting leadership in science and technology is not merely an issue of equality, it is essential for peace, justice and prosperity.

As we stand on the threshold of an AIA, we must commit to a future where men and women codesign the digital world. The House must champion policies and foster gender equality in every sphere of innovation, ensuring that the benefits of technology progress the benefits of technology progress

**** Possible New Speaker ****

It is a great pleasure to take part in this International Women's Day debate. I welcome the Minister Day debate. I welcome the Minister to her new role. I declare I did that because I contributed two that because I contributed two chapters to the biography 'The Honourable Ladies'. In previous speeches to the House have uncovered silenced voices of women from the past and I was terribly tempted to do that this time. For women in science, there are myriad possibilities, from the Egyptian princess who worked on astronomy through to the 17th century scientific illustrators who were particular favourites of mine and both of whom treated insects as independent actors and agents rather than stiff, dead subjects for the human gaze.

It is possible to draw a direct line of ecological thinking from them to the discoverer of what has been dubbed the worldwide would of interrelationships between various species and the environment. I cannot focus on history today, not in the world of 2035 so instead my speech will be, if I may humbly say

15:32

Baroness Bennett of Manor Castle (Green Party)

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so, a companion to that of the Baroness Fox. The theme is 'accelerate action' but rather than that, I think we need to fuel the that, I think we need to fuel the perilous nature of the moment. -- perilous nature of the moment. -- feel. To put it in one I would say the theme should be 'visit'. This is the theme should be 'visit'. This is an attack on women and science by the leaders of the most powerful the leaders of the most powerful state in the world, the USA, which was responsible for a 32% of global science and research funding in 2021.

What we are seeing, and it is not like we were not warned because the destructive ideology of the Trump administration was one. This is from the US National women's Law Centre. This project, "Seeks to impose a hierarchical vision of society post on enforcing a vision of the family that relied on fixed and narrowing gender roles and undermining protections that enable women and LGBTQI people to thrive outside of the male-dominated heterosexual family and seeks to reaffirm the hierarchy." This is a world without democracy.

If members have not read 'The Sovereign Individual' written by a name that I recognise in particular due to the pervasive presence of them across the military, I would urge them to because it proclaims that the information revolution will bring about the death of politics, for which might be read the death of human rights, the rule of law, and what so many women and men have fought for over decades and centuries. That attack on women and girls and desire to restrict human potential is all too evidently part of a broader attack on science.

I note an article in 'Signs Today' That Mass Terminations of research grants for scientific projects has begun and the aim is to cancel grants related to gender identity, diversity, equity, inclusion in the scientific workforce, environmental justice, and anything related to climate change. It is all to be cancelled, ongoing projects. I want to finish with some questions to the Minister. We have, sitting in this chamber, limited influence on what happens in the USA, perhaps no real influence at all as it aligns itself with Russia rather than traditional allies.

This government has responsibility for what happens in the UK. I note that 'Blue Sky Today' there was an great sticking applicants for a program being pushed towards the UK applicants. Will the government work to similarly provide a refuge for researchers no place in the US? We are seeing companies like Google, Amazon, Meta, KPMG, Deloitte, all cancelling and reversing Diversity and Inclusion Committee. If the government going to ensure that whenever they operate in the UK, particularly but not solely in UK government, that British valued and loss on diversity and cache values and laws on diversity and are upheld.

I also note the cutting of budgets and this was picked up by Smith who talked about the impact on polio, malaria, tuberculosis. If the British Government going to pick up the slack? There is concern about antimicrobial resistance with TB. To finish on that have not, there are final plans being made for 32 coordinated protests across the US to stand up for science, put together the initiative of five researchers. Will the noble lady, the minister, join me in supporting the call to stand up for science and agree with me that UK institutions such as the Royal Society should be doing just that? doing just that?

15:37

Lord Davies of Brixton (Labour)

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I spoke last year in this debate about the gender pensions gap. It is still there but I will speak more broadly this year, following the set out on how to promote women's participation and leadership in the science sector and technology. Before moving on I need to congratulate my noble friend analyst Alexander of Cleveden, Baroness Hunt, Baroness Bousted, Baroness Rock, and Lord Jones of Penybont for excellent maiden speeches. They will all clearly be a major asset to the House.

I congratulate Baroness Smith of Malvern for her appointment as Minister for Women And Equalities. I welcome this debate. It has been a pleasure and privilege to be here and listen to port it is being said. It is also a pleasure to contribute, despite the ever present despite the ever present . I congratulate my noble friend for their skill in avoiding it but the only certain way to escape falling into the trap is to listen, simply saying to listen to the experiences of women.

Particularly women with lived experience of success in the science sector and the body. We have heard today in this House with great pleasure. Also, I ask my daughter, my older daughter. Not only is she a great friend and companion, mother of a building grandchild, -- brilliant grandchild but I'm immensely proud of the fact she is an engineer. I emphasise that the an engineer. I emphasise that the credit is also spot she is a professor in the engineering department at University of Cambridge.

I asked her what was the key points she would like to see raised in this debate. What she mentioned essentially I will paraphrase is family-friendly policies that enable her to participate fully and deliver the work in which she is involved in undertaking research. That support, both social and employment, and the specific issue that she mentioned was bought through maternity through periods when, inevitably, women have children. The important thing about children.

The important thing about support, helping people to it through maternity is important to the individuals concerned, their families, and also to all of us because it avoids the loss of the tremendous talent that is available which we have to exploit, not quite which we have to exploit, not quite the right word, employ to the full. And so, in summarising the challenges and future directions, what we have to understand is that despite the progress, the undoubted despite the progress, the undoubted progress there has been, women in STEM still face barriers and could be unconscious bias, workplace discrimination, a lack of representation in leadership positions.

We have two foster sustainable change. Efforts must go beyond entry-level recruitment and focus on career retention, leadership, policy reform and not with addressing the issues that arise with maternity. We must recognise that women's participation and leadership in science, technology, engineering, mathematics, are vital for innovation, economic growth, social progress. The government have made clear that the number one goal is growth and mobilising the full talent of women and girls is a crucial element in achieving that aim.

**** Possible New Speaker ****

My Lords, I'm delighted to park in the International Women's Day debate today and I congratulate all debate today and I congratulate all the noble Lords who made their maiden speeches. AI represents one of the greatest opportunities for growth and advancement since the industrial revolution. We should rightly be excited about its rightly be excited about its potential. It is reshaping the world as we know it and pouting industries, helping scientific industries, helping scientific discoveries and redefining how we live and work.

However, as noble live and work. However, as noble Baroness lease have highlighted, the people shaping AI do not reflect the diversity of those it serves. Women are underrepresented in the AI workplace, making up 21% of employees. This is not only a fundamental issue of economic equality but also about how the world is designed and for whom. Multiple studies have raised concerns that it a diverse set of voices shaping the AI models that we build, we risk creating inbuilt bias.

AI systems trained on bias

15:43

Baroness Owen of Alderley Edge (Conservative)

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data can replicate and amplify discrimination. I am concerned that discrimination. I am concerned that a recent answer from the Department Of Education said that in 2023-24, Of Education said that in 2023-24, just under 18% of STEM apprenticeship starts were by women. apprenticeship starts were by women. We must encourage girls from an early age to take up STEM subjects early age to take up STEM subjects in school to improve the diversity of those any I can so the UK has the of those any I can so the UK has the skills and talent necessary for an AI feature.

It is incumbent on us to ensure subtle biases that are currently being flamed and entrenched by misogynistic influences do not become embedded in the systems that looked to be so intrinsic to our future. We have the responsibility to do everything in our power to help remove the obstacle faced by the next generation of young women to allow them to flourish and reach full potential. Sadly, I fear that we are now facing greater barriers than ever before. This is due to the increasing prevalence and acceptance of misogyny in our society.

The poison of misogyny undermines our values, fuels harassment, discrimination and violence. The agenda is aided by algorithms pushing content to young boys at an alarming rate. A study by UCL set up sample accounts on TikTok representing the views of teenage boys with traditional interests and initially the contents of Jess Edwards in line with their stated interest but it increasingly focused on anger and blame directed at women. After five days, the algorithm was presenting four times as many videos recommending misogynistic content on sexual harassment, discrediting and The study found that social media algorithms at amplify extreme misogynistic content was normalising harmful ideologies for young people.

This will have hugely damaging repercussions on real-life interactions, the University of York study found that 76% of secondary school teachers and 60% of primary school teachers were strongly concerned about the influence of online misogyny on their pupils. The study highlighted shocking examples where secondary school pupils express views that women should not be in leadership roles and they were too big for their boots. When the teacher questioned whether they had got the ideas, they informed them that they like to watch Andrew Tate.

Even more disturbingly, in primary school, teachers cited examples where girls as young as primary age told women should not have careers and that they belonged in the kitchen. One informed his teacher that it is OK to hurt women because Andrew Tate does it. I am sure that many noble Lords will agree that unless we seek to tackle this appalling rise in misogyny in schools, these attitudes present a real threat to the progress of young girls who should not have to suffer this abuse during their formative years.

If we do not take action, we risk creating a future where discrimination is automated and prejudice is coded into the very systems that are supposed to aid our and Hanson -- aid our advancement, not hinder it. We must not allow our future be to be shaped by those who want to do us harm. We await his next generation he might be aspiring scientists, engineers, to stamp out the vile form of abuse and give them every opportunity to flourish. In doing so, we are not only helping them safeguarding the future of our society.

The future of AI must be built by all of us, for all of us, let us ensure that women are at the heart of this progress.

**** Possible New Speaker ****

My Lords, it is a pleasure to be able to participate in this debate. As is almost customary, it happens As is almost customary, it happens year after year, there is an overwhelmingly large number of overwhelmingly large number of female speakers, a rough count of 24 a rough count of 24/33. That goes to a rough count of 24/33. That goes to show how women continue to fight. The question I want to ask simply, what is it we want to discuss in the name of STEM subjects? Secondly, why are we worried about it, if there are fewer women going into STEM subjects, why should be of concern? Except the notion of abstract justice.

Thirdly, assuming it is a matter of concern, can we do something about it? I want to address the three questions in that order very quickly. I think it is well-known that 30% of girls in higher education take STEM subjects, as opposed to 75% who go on to do health, education and others. Again, I think we need to be careful not to over generalise and homogenise girls. If you look at STEM subjects, girls tend to take more interest in algebra and chemistry than in physics.

There is a trend, the trend is global. It is not limited to one country. And this trend which appears in different forms. In some subjects, it is more pronounced than in others, but there is a global trend. Of girls not going for STEM subjects. That leads me to the second question, if that is so, why should we worry about it? I can imagine lots of things that girls do not go into those areas, why is this a matter of serious concern? I should say, first of all, there is a pool of talent being wasted.

Second, a pool of distinctive talent, not just intelligence, imagination, but imagination tuned in a certain way, seeing problems in a certain way. Whether it's in physics or biology, they bring to the subject a certain perception of what human needs are. What kind of car you want to have... I read an article, what kind of a car, when men design them, it would not occur to them to have a seat which can have a child. Or we can allow women to relax.

It will simply not occur to men, not because don't want to come but because it is not part of the process. For women in the driving seat, designing things they will explore these things. In that sense, they are investing a pool of distinctive talent and imagination. If that is so, the next question is, can we do something about it, as I said earlier, some people seem to think that if a phenomenon has gone on for a long time, there must be answers it must have a basis in human nature.

It can't just be spontaneous. Well, I tend to disagree. But I will be quick and brief. I would say it is a cultural phenomenon. It is not something that girls accidentally choose, not to go for STEM subjects, there is a cultural pressure. Cultural pressure of what kind? But a cultural pressure of two kinds, from the outside society, pressure. Which channels expectations and hopes and ambitions. And channels them within the girls, who internalise the beliefs and move in that direction.

You have a situation where... There are a difficult subject, like physics, or higher mathematics, too strenuous for girls to get into the subjects. We should give them some rest. With these expeditions, shaped by our culture, for a period of centuries, shaping the skills minds to move in a certain direction, we can certainly tackle them in terms of more scholarships and more this and that, but we need to undermine this culture. How do you counter culture? It shapes expectations and tells women not to go in a certain direction.

It is a long story, but I would say, in the case of undermining the culture, there are several factors we need to take into

15:53

Lord Parekh (Labour)

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account. One, the girls here growing up, are there signs of higher up, are there signs of higher mathematics themselves or is it simply seen in the mail phenomenon? Similarly, if you have scholarships Similarly, if you have scholarships and mental ships, more girls can be attracted to them. In short, girls attracted to them. In short, girls can flourish and inhibited by anybody.

**** Possible New Speaker ****

My Lords, as we commemorate International Women's Day, we do so

15:54

Lord Loomba (Crossbench)

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International Women's Day, we do so at a time when commitments to development and diversity, equality and inclusion programs face unprecedented strain. Sporting education for women and girls, particularly in STEM subjects, remains a vital lifeline for millions who are ultimately affected by poverty, gender-based violence and systematic discrimination that restricts their ability to harness their talent For a Better Future. I thank the noble Lady for tabling this motion and for its focus.

This year's International Women's Day theme for all women and girls, right, equality, empowerment, particularly pertinent as we examine the participation and leadership of women in Science and Technology. Women remain underrepresented in science, technology and mathematics worldwide. Unesco reports that women make up only 35% of STEM graduates, a figure that has shown little progress over the past decade. In Sub-Saharan Africa, socio economic values, institutional biases and cultural norms hinder women's participation in STEM.

Taking Mozambique as an example, the gender gap represents a significant challenge. Whilst gender equality in education has seen some improvement, women remain underrepresented in STEM. This disparity is not merely statistical, but it is indicative of deeper systematic challenges that limit opportunities for women and girls. In 2024, Unesco reported on women's participation in higher education in South Africa. It highlights these challenges. Across highlights these challenges. Across nine sudden at countries, including Mozambique, women hold only a fraction of leadership roles in higher education institutions.

In Mozambique, women are just 24% of senior academic positions, and in Zambia, the figure is slightly higher, 28%. The barriers extend beyond education, into professional STEM careers. Women in Mozambique and the region face obstacles, such as limited mentorship opportunities, gender biases in hiring and promotion and a lack of support network. These challenges contribute to the broader issue of gender disparity in STEM fields. Addressing these gaps requires coordinated efforts at multiple levels.

Educational institutions must actively implement policies that encourage women's participation in STEM, including scholarships, mentorship, and learning environments that challenge gender stereotypes. International support has played a crucial role in empowering women and girls in STEM. The United Kingdom has been a long- standing supporter of education initiatives in Sub-Saharan Africa, including Mozambique, to its overseas programs. However, recent reductions in aid funding raised serious concerns about the continuity of these essential efforts.

In light of this, I asked the neighbour Minister, what programs focused on education for women and girls supported by British overseas aid has been or will be disrupted by the recent reduction in funding? Secondly, how does the government plan to fulfil the commitment to support education of women and girls in Mozambique and other countries in sub-Saharan Africa? Particularly in STEM subjects, admits that funding challenges? We must reaffirm our commitment to gender equality in STEM, not only as a matter of social justice but also as a catalyst for innovation and economic growth by empowering women and girls in Science and Technology, we unlock a wealth of talent and perspectives essential for addressing complex essential for addressing complex

16:00

Lord McConnell of Glenscorrodale (Labour)

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My Lords, I am happy to follow the noble Lord whose courageous and determined work in support of women worldwide is known to many in this House and I'm grateful to hear him speak here today. I would like to congratulate Baroness Smith on her appointment as The Qualities Minister and for her excellent speech opening this debate. It is also time to pay tribute to the noble Baroness for her dignified statement last week and I hope she will remain an active member of the other Place and join with us in campaigning in the months ahead.

I congratulate those who have made their maiden speeches including Lord Jones whose introduction to the House is welcome. I also welcome Baroness Alexander who, let me get this right, is the second former Labour member who is not a member to have entered the House. I have long argued that they should be welcome in this House and I am delighted that she has now joined media. She will make a fantastic contribution. I was delighted to hear the maiden speech of Baroness Hunt.

We have been friends for a very long time and her contribution to the modernisation of this country with the election of and the running of the first four years as a contribution that is not widely enough celebrated and recognised. She was a pivotal individual in that time and I remember many eliminating moments and not least when the then- Leader of the Opposition was going to get me to support a referendum on devolution before the new government legislated when I was presented with a glass of wine at 10:30 in the morning to make sure I was ready to hear the news I was about to.

A welcome addition to the House and today's speech showed the contributions will be outstanding. I am a former maths teacher and so have enjoyed the content of the debate and I have been mentored by many women and including by Mrs Craig who was my first primary school teacher and came to seek me out on the day I left primary school to tell me that I could learn when to keep my mouth shut and be more disciplined, I could do absolutely anything that I wanted to.

To this day, I credit her with much of the incredible moments I have been able to enjoy in my life and career. Almost all have a link to the talking today including the McConnell International Society responses 200 girls who live in abilities where no one in the family had finished secondary school before and one went to university and from a country where very high numbers of girls become pregnant in teenage years are forced into early child marriage, only one girl in 200 became pregnant last year and she went back to school after her baby was born.

The potential of education to transform lives is shown in my interactions with them and the education of the girl transforms the life of the individual as well as abilities in families and goes far beyond the individual who benefits. Many members of the House today commented on the international aspect of International Women's Day from Afghanistan where incredibly in 2035 women and girls are being held back from going to school and into higher education but from many other basic liberties.

We had of persecution earlier in the statement from Lord Hanson, persecution in Iran, and the cynical planned rape of girls and women in Sudan and elsewhere as part of violent conflict around the world the casual acceptance and encouragement of violence in the supposedly progressive developed world that we see today and throughout the world since the COVID pandemic. Thousands, tens of thousands, hundreds of thousands of girls not returning to school to complete educational opportunities that would give them a fair chance in life and we are seeing rates going in reverse throughout the world.

We should be angry about that like the noble Baroness and certainly not complacent nor complicit in it. And while I absolutely adore the government decision to increase Defence spending, I do believe us I said last week it is shortsighted and counter-productive to reduce overseas development assistance to find that. I think a great in saying it is doing it to the lowest level since Harold Wilson was Prime Minister. There will be less girls finishing school unless health programs giving young girls choices in early adult years and left women entrepreneurs are more violence and conflict and famine as a result and so, in conclusion, I ask the Minister on behalf of the government to see if there will be an impact study before these cuts are permitted and in particular programs on sexual health, the education of girls, conflict prevention, and in particular preventing sexual violence.

Will these be protected?

16:07

Lord Clement-Jones (Liberal Democrat)

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My Lords, I am afraid the noble Baroness eyes did it almost impossible to start a debate by saying my Lords anymore. We will have to change the convention. It is a great reference to the part in this debate. We have heard a brilliant and insightful set of maiden speeches today and I particularly value the rate -- weight the Welsh and Scottish representation which is not always as strong as it should be. I declare my interest and I may wheel that a very distinguished biomedical engineer is at the helm of the school of engineering and material sciences at my university.

I do envy the noble Lord for having a daughter who was an engineer to consult with in his speech today. I the chair, I also thank the Minister for her introduction to Diddy and the Moshen and also I congratulate her. -- Her introduction today and moving the motion. I know that the weight of the current post that she has. As the chair of the Select Committee on Artificial Intelligence our findings in 2018 revealed a deeply troubling picture.

Globally, 75% of AI and it assigns professionals our meal and in the UK the representation of was even lower, 20%. Despite numerous electives, several years later, the needle has hardly moved. I'm not surprised when the noble Baroness is angry. We all should be. This is not just about fairness, crucial as that may be. This response must not undervalue the crucial impact on humanities and the arts and we've heard from Baroness Morrissey and others about this, my Lords.

It is about the quality and safety of the AI systems being developed. When teams lacked adversity, adds the noble viscount said, the technology that they create reflects this limitation and we are in danger of building tomorrow's role but yesterday's biased. The implications are profound and facial recognition systems may fail to identify women and ethnic minorities and a B medical diagnostic systems trained predominantly on mail data. And also the proliferation of deepfake pornography, misogyny, threats of violence online, as illustrated by the Baroness.

My Lords, the wider picture of STEM is equally picture of STEM is equally concerning. As we have heard, women comprise only 29% of the technology workforce and engineering and technology apprenticeships, women account for just 17% of stars. Only 8.5% had all female funding teams and just 16% had mixed funding teams. At the leadership level, I then Baroness said, women make up 6% of STEM leaders. The statistics represent not just inequality but a massive waste of talent at a time when these skills are crucial to our economic future.

And also to medical research, as Baroness Smith pointed out. The digital divide compounds these challenges. Women are 40% less likely to adopt technologies compared to men and there is a striking 21% gap between Junior men and women in adopting AI tools at work. It creates a vicious cycle of underrepresentation was to technology design without the input of Robin which in turn makes technology less accessible to women. Indeed, as the noble Baroness said. We have seen the previous government's investment in data science degrees at the scholarships for representative groups welcomed and organisations like Wise, the Pack Talent Chapter and women and AI have valuable book.

There are over 170 companies in the charter committed to increasing women and technology roles and these sure recognition of the problem. Why is progress.? The education pipeline remains a critical challenge. We have seen some improvement with an increase of almost 30% in girls starting STEM A-levels between 2009-20 but this has not translated into proportional workforce representation. Something is clearly going wrong in the transition from education to career and career progression thereafter. The leaky pipeline which was mentioned by Baroness Bottomley in STEM careers remains deeply concerning.

We see encouraging numbers of young women taking STEM A-levels and entering undergraduate programs but the sharp decline at postgraduate level and academic careers suggests systemic issues beyond mere timelag. I am interested to hear what the noble Baroness has to say about culture in schools. What is particularly striking is manageable female students report never having considered advancing their careers, not because of active discouragement but because they simply have not envisaged themselves in these roles.

I was very interested to hear what the noble Baroness that when she set out a number of interesting suggestions for action in this area. I would suggest another few areas where government action could make a real difference. We need a comprehensive review of the effectiveness of current initiatives. Individual programs show promise but often operate in silos and within a coherent national strategy that coordinates efforts across industry and government. This should include early intervention in school, support through higher education and workplace initiatives.

We should consider mandatory reporting of capacity in STEM roles for larger companies, similar to gender pay gap reporting. What gets measured and managed, of course. This would provide crucial data to inform policy and hold organisations responsible companies should report on overall numbers and also recruitment progression and attention. We support for transition points, particularly returning to STEM careers after career breaks. What happened to the pilot returners program in the Midlands, the north of England, known as STEM Recharge much of this should include multiple working arrangements and programs.

We must address the persistent barriers in workplace culture. This means tackling unconscious bias, mentioned by Laura Davies. Ensuring the promotion processes and promoting inclusive environments. The government should lead by example in its own STEM workforce require diversity initiatives as part of public procurement. We also need specific focus on emerging technologies with AI and quantum computing shipping the future - we cannot afford to repeat the past madness of exclusion and this means ensuring the participation of women in this field from the ground up.

More fundamentally, as mentioned by the noble Baroness, and many others in this debate, we must address the cultural barriers that persist in cultural barriers that persist in cultural barriers that persist in The prominent women in stem that we were told about by the noble Baronesses, the very fact that we can name them all, these exceptional individuals, they show us what is possible, they are very exceptional and it highlights the systematic problem we must address, that is surely self-evident.

This underscores the importance of visible role models. We need to move beyond passive representation to active engagement, ensuring that young women not only see themselves in STEM fields but they are encouraged to seek out these roles. It is not just about technical skills, it is about creating an environment where girls see themselves as natural problem- solving and innovators, too often this is missing from young girls experiences, creating invisible barriers long before career choices come into play.

Time is short but I want to mention the international dimension which was mentioned. Leadership in science and technology gives us the opportunity and responsibility to set global standards, in this context, the announced cuts to the UK aid budget cast a huge unwanted shadow over the stem development globally. It is the government still committed to the international women and girls strategy? Launched only two years ago on International Women's Day. Given the commitment to STEM education and gender equality, will efforts be made to protect these areas from the worst impact.

Looking ahead in the UK, the stakes could not be higher, AI and other emerging technologies will reshape society. If women remain underrepresented, this is not just about quality, it is about ensuring that our technological development serves our technological development serves our

16:19

Baroness Barran (Conservative)

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It is a privilege to speak in this debate today. Highlighting the achievements of women and the oppression that too many still face. I want to congratulate Baroness Lady Smith for another way to fill her free time, what little she had left of it. We also heard, my Lords, five excellent maiden speeches. The noble Baroness talked about her pioneering work in the Scottish Parliament. Malawi's loss was Hollywood's game. The noble Baroness, talked about alliance building and I felt the alliance building and I felt the tone of her remarks were so welcome.

The noble Baroness, who of the five is the only one I have the pleasure of knowing in a previous life, I recognise very much the way that she talked about herself in terms of self reliance and she is warmly self reliance and she is warmly welcome here. The noble Lady, Baroness Rafferty, the noble Lady's have moved which is difficult... Talked about being inspired by her mother. I managed to resist not mother.

I managed to resist not talking about my mother. I felt that

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I I want I want to I want to just I want to just note I want to just note at I want to just note at this I want to just note at this point other women on my benches who have other women on my benches who have been so influential because, quite been so influential because, quite rightly, the noble Lady has talked about political careers, but on about political careers, but on these benches, Mike noble Baroness -- the noble Baronesses were -- the noble Baronesses were influential on their work on women to win, which has changed the shape to win, which has changed the shape of our party.

Last but definitely not least, Lord Jones, it was again a privilege to listen to the humanity that he expressed in talking about the act that he chose to highlight to the House today. Which was literally, in his words, life saving. It is a double privilege to be standing here today, I am taking the place of my noble friend, Baroness Williams, who was unable to be here this afternoon. Like many of us, she had a strong woman in her life, her mother, who proved the wakeful my noble friend to do a science degree.

Going to University College Cork in the 1960s, to study medicine alongside a small number of women, including several nuns. Apparently, she was so talented, she was given full marks in an exam she did not sit because she was busy having her son at the time. But, as we have heard this afternoon, in the speeches of many noble Lords, women have had to fight and campaign for the right to contribute economically in general and in science and technology, including the steppingstones along the way of education, reproductive rights, childcare, health education and the right to vote.

As we have heard, progress for women has not gone in a straight line, in some cases it has gone backwards. 8 March, International Women's Day itself, has seen major demonstrations calling for change, such as in Teheran in 1979. Where women protested in their thousands against the mandatory wearing of the hijab. International Women's Day in 2012 saw the opening of the first women's internet cafe in Kabul, I wonder if it is still there, sadly I think we can get the answer.

Thinking about those steppingstones, the noble Baroness talked, rightly, about the importance of online safety and there is so much more to be done in all areas of gender-based violence. She mentioned that polite of old women. The humbling and troubling list that Baroness Brady Casey made outcome too often ladies over 70 had no name, not traditionally recognised as victims. The noble Baroness, talked about the sexual harassment of children in classrooms.

Of course, that happens in this country and internationally. My noble friend, Baroness Cohen, talked powerfully about the challenging -- changing shape of misogyny online and how that impacts on behaviour off-line. Rightly, the noble Baroness, Baroness Smith, the noble Lady, Darren S Bennett, and the noble Lord, Lord McConnell, expressed concerns about the impact of cuts on girls educations. Education has been a crucial way for women to gain economic independence and exercise their rights and fulfil their potential.

Lord McConnell painted a vivid picture of girls in Malawi and the change that education can make to their lives. Turning to the technology sector itself, the noble Baroness, Lady Ln, Fox, rightly said that this is an issue of power, justice and fairness, sentiments which are echoed by the noble Baroness, Lady Greenfield, and my noble friend, who gave us a strong sense of community of women in one factory and have had became the fact -- heart of the local town.

In terms of diversity, just a little ray of hope, the spirit of my noble friend, there is fantastic work, as many have said, going on around the country, including from the other professor, Sue Black, not the one in your logic ties, at Durham University. -- Not the one in your Lordships House, at Durham University. She has been working on making sure we have more adversity in AI in particular. I want to mention a few who stand out from the Global South, including a doctor from India whose groundbreaking work led to treatment for epilepsy and malaria.

And a doctor from Ethiopian who transformed cultural science. And from Latin America, a doctor who has led the new frontiers program for NASA. It feels, looking forward, that we are at a perilous time in history as we look at some of the geopolitical shifts taking place, the conversation about the need for defence expenditure and more investment in AI to drive the defence systems of the future has been dialled up unimaginably when compared to just a few weeks or months ago.

As others have observed, so much talent has been focused on consumer innovations and social media, food delivery apps and other services that can only thrive in a peaceful world. It feels inevitable that more investment needs to and will go into critical areas of innovation, particularly in relation to defence. Defence in particular remains an area with no representation of women wear voices, insights and skills are vitally needed, exactly as my noble friend and the noble Lady said in terms of creating the strong ethical framework and the strong organisational culture that this sector perhaps needs, almost more than any other.

We need women to be part of the solution and not just the voices left behind, as men suffered the ultimate price of suffered the ultimate price of warfare. We must not lose sight of the imperative to protect our values of freedom, democracy, and the rule of law, without which, opportunities for women will evaporate. As we close this debate, remember the brave women all around the world fighting for their freedom, their right to go to school, and the right to develop their talents and potential.

We celebrate the extraordinary achievements of women in Science and Technology without whom so many advances will not have been made. Many in this House have been wrong models and champions to younger women, on this International Women's Day, I would like to wish particularly... Our daughters and granddaughters, in the widest sense, that they should seize the opportunities that life presents them. In the words of the late, great, Meyer Angeli, do the best that you can until you know better.

Then, when you know better, do Then, when you know better, do

16:30

Baroness Jones of Whitchurch, Parliamentary Under Secretary of State (Department for Science, Innovation and Technology) (Labour)

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My Lords, a very happy International Women's Day to all the noble Lords. We have had a very good debate and the progress made so far to accelerate action and where we want to get to it. I thank all the Lords for the August in this debate. Some of you have made your maiden speeches today. Thank you to my noble friend, Baroness Alexander of Cleveden whose leadership in Scotland at work in the education sector sees her as another proud voice.

Thank you also to the noble Baroness who brings expertise from the trade unions in her role as secretary of the Education Union to help us analyse how to improve the lives of working women. It is wonderful to have another strong voice for Wales in the House and I voice for Wales in the House and I thank Lord Jones of Penybont for becoming a member of the sisterhood. It was an honour to hear from Baroness Rafferty whose extensive experience in the nursing role as President can help us to focus on the experience of women working in health and hopefully improve on that.

And finally thank you to Baroness Hunter whose political experiences welcome adverse her support for business in her role as a senior adviser. My Lords, one of the many things that the civil rights activist Marianne gave the world if the words that you cannot be what you cannot see. She meant it is hard for people to imagine themselves in fields where they do not see people who are like them. I will pay tribute to some pioneering women in science and technology.

They are not always the ones whose names are attached to the Nobel Prize or whose pictures are hanging on the walls of hallowed species. They are often the ones whose legacies go unrecorded without whose essential, we would not have achieved half the scientific progress. Without Mary Somerville, the 19th-century Queen science, we may not have discovered Neptune. Without Kevan Jones working in linguistics, we did not have the technology underpinning search engines. In her words, computing is too important to be left to men.

Without the Professor Jocelyn, we would not have discovered pulsars, a byproduct of exploding stars that allow us to test some of the most fundamental ideas of six. And the noble Ladies also reminded us that women have overcome sexism in some academic institutions and that continues today but thankfully at the same time, girls have many new models to do and some of them are paving the way for more people to enter these fields.

I am grateful to my noble friend for reminding us that it was Helen Sharman who was the first UK answer not or it was Anne-Marie who passed her A-level in computing at 11 years old and now runs an organisation which gets more women and non-binary people into STEM or the woman who founded the organisation to improve the pipeline of women into technological roles. So far they are work has reached 1300 children. Sorry, 130,000 1300 children.

Sorry, 130,000 children. The Baroness is also reminded us models can be closer to home as we stand on the shoulders of our mothers and grandmothers and often reflect on what they could and could have achieved with the right support. And as Baroness Stedman- Scott reminded us, we've come a long way in the House of Lords since 1958. Baroness Hunter reminds us of the excellent leaders we've had in the House including the outstanding current leader, Baroness Smith. We have other outstanding ladies in Baroness Gustafsson who built of the fastest growing companies in Europe, achieving unicorn status in just four years and one of the ladies we had from earlier was hugely influential in starting the .com boom and has dedicated much of converter digital inclusion and is the chair of the advisory board to steer the new digital centre of government and I thank for bringing her expertise to bear here.

We are reminded of the fight we had to increase the number of women MPs at the success we can see the latest intake. As she rightly said, this did not happen by accident but very hard and determined book by a number of women. My Lords, like all of us, my own journey ship so I see these issues. I started my career as a trade union official representing many women, low-paid women, in the public sector and campaigning for better rights at work and I am pleased to see these protected further in the forthcoming Rates Bill.

I have Sydney political environment around me grow more equal. When this government came into power in July, I was thrilled into power in July, I was thrilled to be appointed as a minister for both organisations and I can now officially call myself a woman in STEM. My role means I get to see all the facets that shape the participation of women in science and technology up close. From the subjects (skill to the investment gap with funding and issues behind boardroom tables are behind the goggles.

What surprised me most when I took office with the mismatch between the talent science and technology sectors need and how few That career as an option. On one hand, you have top firms struggling to fill vacancies and on the other, many of the girls I meet in schools do not know about the opportunities in these fields or why they should care. These are exciting, creative, well-paid jobs. Globally, tech salaries two thirds higher than average and we must keep shouting about that message as it is showing girls that people like them work in these roles because there are opportunities and because if you can't see it, you can be it.

As my noble friend Baroness Smith made clear, we have got a long way to go but we are making progress. Women are progressing in the percentage of STEM sectors that we encourage them to be and and this point is reinforced by the noble Baroness. 35% of A-level entries by women and girls by 2010 and there are STEM ambassadors in 80% of state schools, 48% of whom are women. Women apprenticeship starts have increased by 7.5% on the previous year. We are making progress.

We have got further to go. As my noble friend pointed out, the curriculum review will address the unacceptable gender gap, for example, with girls taking GCSEs in computer science and I hope we can address those issues quickly. I also think the point that Baroness Wilcox made which was that it is not just about science and technology. We also eat insects and judgements -- we also need insights and I absolutely agree that there needs to be redefined.

So many noble Lords raise the issue about the veracity and the challenges that we face and Baroness Lane-Fox said that she is angry that she has to shout about this issue again. I understand why she feels that way and Baroness Bennett echoed the concerns with courts to resist, particularly with attacks across the pond. It is a shortsighted approach in so many ways and my noble friend Lord Clement-Jones made this clear that the attitude means we are missing out on the distinctive pool of talent we could all use and utilise.

It is a blind policy in many ways It is a blind policy in many ways but I must make it clear that in the UK shows, including science and technology, continues to be a priority for this government. It is a priority reflected in legislation and which we will continue to uphold. Firms with over 250 employees have to report on their gender pay gap every year since 2017. As part of the Equality Bill This year, they will have to report on gaps in ethnicity and disability, too.

Under the forthcoming Employment Rights Bill, they will also have to publish equality action plans to show what they are doing to improve gender equality. I can assure my noble friend that the government is committed to delivering on the veracity and -- diversity and work of equal value and giving women the tools to challenge issues where they occur. Family-friendly policies are of course part of the plan. We will continue to hold companies in every sector up to the high standard and support them as they reap the rewards that we now have greater diversity will bring.

Diversity is important in its own right and as Baroness Owen and other Lords today, women have to be at the table when technology is designed, otherwise, we risk an inbuilt crisis and distorted algorithms and these are issues that the AI Security Institute and the implementation of the Online Safety Act are determined to address at the noble lady address via that was important to us. Baroness Rock made the point that stereotypes continue to blight recruitment in the nursing profession.

I'm grateful to my noble friend Baroness Donaghy for highlighting the need to improve women's health which is important in its own right and also to ensure that women are fit, healthy, able to participate in the workforce. We are overhauling promises to help women's healthcare and are committing £57 million for services for new and expectant mothers. And F Smith raised the important challenge of sexual and reproductive health and is right that technology and AI applications can play a hugely important role in transforming women's health in those areas.

I am also grateful to Baroness Morgan for highlighting the huge contribution that medical research it playing in improving health outcomes, particularly for women and mainly run by women and so this will continue to be important priorities for this government. When we think about women's participation in this world, we must look at two angles. There is the issue of women as shipping science and technology, making discoveries, finding start- ups, working in industry. Many of the points made by noble Lord but also at users of technology because there are plenty of issues that disproportionately affect women here.

Women around the world are more likely to be excluded from digital life and brandy are included on can be weaponised to make them feel unsafe. If women do not feel safe online and do not have the devices, connected skills to get there in the first place, they are fundamentally left out of the conversation. My noble friend reminded us that women are often the losers as a sexual abuse and misogyny become rife online and I can assure that we are moving at pace to implement the Online Safety Act also to identify what more needs to be done.

Like her, I pay tribute to Baroness Burton for her groundbreaking report on pornography which we will take steps to which we will take steps to We are committed to halving violence against women and. I am grateful to my noble friend, Ernest Casey, whose moving testimony to the 95 women and four children murdered by men stopped us all short. It was a very stark reminder of the challenges that we still face in tackling violence.

I'm grateful to my noble friend for reminding us of the role that women play globally, as peacekeepers, and for helping to rebuild shattered communities. I am also grateful to the noble Lord for raising the continued global challenge of women's participation in education and STEM initiatives. My noble friend quite rightly raises concerns about women's rights going into reverse globally. These are challenging times. However, I remind noble Lords that, for example, we are funding the girls education skills partnership, the strengthening higher education program and the AI for development diversity program in the Global South.

A number of these initiatives are continuing. My Lords, it has been a privilege to hear from so many in this House today, including many who themselves are role models for women and girls in science and technology. We must continue to give women and girls the tools and skills that they need to make sure that they are not locked out of the digital world. We must continue to make sure that there is a world where they feel safe. And we must continue to give women in the UK and around the world more powers to find their own firms, get into research labs and reach senior levels in businesses.

Because we cannot move forward where half of the world is held back. Society... Societal progress and growth depends on all of this. My Lords, I am grateful to the noble Lord for all of the contributions that have been made this afternoon, I am sorry if I have not picked up every point, but I have been scribbling madly here, all of your points were extremely well made and we have had an excellent debate today.

16:48

Deputy Lord Speaker Baroness Watkins of Tavistock (Crossbench)

The question is that this motion be agreed to. As many are of that opinion say, "Content", and of the contrary, "Not content". The

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contents have it. Message from the Commons, they have passed the Supply and have passed the Supply and Appropriation (Anticipation and Adjustments) Bill to which they designed the agreement of your Lordships.

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Lordships. I beg to move that this bill be

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read a first time. As many are of that opinion say, "Content", and of the contrary, "Not "Content", and of the contrary, "Not content". The contents have it. I will give the chamber a minute to

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Question

16:49

Short debate: Securing free trade agreements with India and countries in Southeast Asia

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Question for Question for short Question for short debate, Question for short debate, free trade agreements with India and

16:49

Baroness Anelay of St Johns (Conservative)

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countries in southern Asia.

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My Lords, trade is the bedrock on which successful economies are which successful economies are built. The U.K.'s withdrawal from the EU has given us the opportunity to pursue an independent trade to pursue an independent trade policy. Ratifying and implementing new trade agreements with other new trade agreements with other countries. Last week, the Business Secretary said, securing a trade Secretary said, securing a trade deal with what is seen to be the third biggest economy in the world third biggest economy in the world is a no-brainer.

In the top rarity for the government. -- And a top priority for the government. I welcome the decision to facilitate the free trade talks with India which were launched four years ago by Boris Johnson. We are not alone in the race to get a deal. The EU is in the race to get a deal. The EU is also knocking on India's door. Last month, the EU and India are pushing together a Free Trade Agreement doing this year. Is that timeframe the same for the UK? In a time of increasing global disruption, it is more important than ever to maximise opportunities to support International Trade.

There are both challenges and opportunities when negotiating trade agreements, of course. There always are. The trade talks began by Boris Johnson were not concluded by the time of the general election last year. The BBC and newspaper report suggested then that the sticking points included high tariffs on Scotch whiskey and relaxing fees and Visa rules for Indian students and professionals coming to the UK. India was also reported as requesting an exemption from the U.K.'s plan to carve a board adjustment mechanism.

Does the covenant plan to make concessions on those issues? Does it have any red lines? If so, would they include the protection of sanitary standards? An FTA with India could offer the UK both economic and geopolitical advantages, and give us the position in one of the most economically diverse make regions of the world. The wider considerations could bring greater collaboration on issues such as security and climate change, which met in our minds every day in this House.

If tariffs and trade barriers were reduced or eliminated, UK companies could reach Indian consumers at more competitive prices, particularly in sectors like technology, machinery, pharmaceuticals and financial services. The UK has a strong tech industry, which we have heard in the previous debate. India has a large and growing demand for engineering and digital services. India's expanding middle-class creates more demand for a variety of products and services, the UK could tap into this. Especially in consumables, education and healthcare sectors.

India is a significant player in the global supply chains, especially for sectors like IT, textiles and pharmaceuticals. An FTA could include -- improve collaboration between UK and Indian companies, creating more efficient supply chains and reducing costs. There are obstacles Deming from economic and political challenges which require careful consideration. For example, how does the government plan to take on the complexity and risk in resolving the difference in regulatory standards? Particularly in industries such as pharmaceuticals, food safety and digital services.

I am sure that we all recall India's approach to intellectual property protection, particularly in the fields of pharmaceuticals, and software, is far less stringent than in the UK. Seeking improved access for UK agricultural exports could meet resistance from domestic producers and stakeholders in India who are currently heavy subsidised. It is also a significant matter on human rights standards in India. We have heard much of that earlier today. And quite rightly. In two days time, it is International Women's Day, the FCDO's most recent annual report on human rights serves several times to the human rights abuses in India.

Particularly of women, marginalised groups and religious minorities. Can the noble Lord the Minister commit that when the government negotiate with the Indian government Free Trade Agreement, it will include discussions on human rights. In particular, will they raise the importance of protecting women's sexual and reproductive health and rights? My Lords, I would like to refer briefly to Indonesia. It has become one of the world's major emerging economies. Members of both this House and another place use their February recess to go on a visit to Indonesia to learn more about its governance and economy and the impact of the U.K.'s soft power.

They were impressed by the establishment there of the University. It provides high quality business and tech education. My Lords, what it means is that Indonesian students can gain degrees which are not only accredited by a UK university, Lancaster, but accepted by the Indonesian government as being equal to a degree from a local university. It is the very first international joint campus of its kind. Will the noble Lord the Minister agree with me that innovative work such as that bite Lancaster University is to be welcomed and it enhances the U.K.'s soft power.

In conclusion, I would hope that a trade agreement with India could be highly advantageous India could be highly advantageous to the UK. It could increase market access, trade diversification, services, expansion, and strengthen the political relationships. Hopefully, that would contribute to long-term economic growth. My Lords, I hope that close involvement in soft power ventures in Indonesia could raise the profile and expertise of the UK. Both India and Indonesia are members with China of the bricks intergovernmental organisation.

In trade, we know the economic heft of China casts a shadow overall negotiations. Securing FTAs and other agreements in India and Southeast Asia is not an easy task. I look forward to hearing from the Minister, now and in the future, on what progress the government is able to make.

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My Lords, can I think the noble Baroness for securing this very Baroness for securing this very important debate. I wish it was longer than one hour, but we are

16:58

Lord Sahota (Labour)

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longer than one hour, but we are where we are. A buzzword these days is trade, if you don't believe me, ask president Trump. Because it is a trade that makes the world go around. These days, when it comes for a healthy relationship within of the country, it is the healthy trade agreement that counts the most. Everything else comes after. Well, mostly. Not always. The UK and India have a long historical and cultural link going back hundreds of years.

If a year, thousands of students come to the UK to study. Some of the Indian Prime Minister's have studied in UK universities. One who is credited with opening up the Indian economy to the world. And some even say, he is the saviour of the Indian economy. And then there is a large Indian diaspora contributing not only to the U.K.'s economy but also to academia and, there I say, politics. India is on the move. It's GDP is now the fourth of this largest in the world.

Ahead of the UK, it is on track to surpass Germany and Japan in the next decade. It is growing at over 70% annually. A pace that most developed countries can only dream of. And its mission is clear, India wants to become a developed economy by 2047. When it marks the 100th anniversary of its independence. That means massive investment in infrastructure, technology, It means a growing middle-class of some 800 million people, hungry for British goods and services.

So, where are we on securing a free trade deal agreement with India? I understand that negotiations have been ongoing for over two years, and it is not getting anywhere. I also understand, this is my understanding, that it is India that is dragging its feet. In today's world, traders not just about goods and services. It is about the relationship influence and shipping the future of our economy. So, I ask the future of our economy. So, I ask the Minister what is the current timeline for concluding a UK India Free trade agreement? What concrete progress has been made on resolving key sticking points? Treat is about growth, jobs, and opportunity.

If we get this right, we can shape the U.K.'s economy and future for decades to come, but if we get it wrong, or worse, do nothing, others will fill the gap. I urge the Government to move swiftly and be old and ensure Britain is at the heart of the fastest-growing region in the world and I look forward to the Minister's response. the Minister's response.

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I think when I was brought up as a child inward -looking internet economy with a low level of growth and since 1991 India has emerged as the fastest-growing major economy in the fastest-growing major economy in the world, emerging globally connected power, the fifth-largest economy in the to be the third- largest economy in the world and I predict that by 2026 be the largest economy in the world. I have been privileged to be at the forefront of

17:02

Lord Bilimoria (Crossbench)

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privileged to be at the forefront of UK India relations were 22 years, in British partnership, a member of the round table plan and business Council and currently co-chair of the India all-party Parliamentary group and I think the Noble Lady baroness leading this bit of this very important time. India is only the U.K.'s 11th largest trading partner and yet it still supports 600,000 jobs between both nations and the goal, of course, is we have got to get this to increase by 2030.

We have been negotiating this free trade agreement since 2022 when I was president of the Confederation of CGI and three years have gone by was of the benefits of an FTI of lower cost of businesses, greater consumer trust, low prices, standards, and, of course, opposed the negotiations because the election was last year in both countries, there sticking points, or no, India and Scotch whiskey. We know about the greater mobility that India would like professionals and students and I am the co-chair for the international students.

Why, I ask the Noble Lord the Minister, do we not take international students of the net migration figures? That will help so much. Course, India wants. These are processing and concessions in national insurance for temporary workers. Is the Government considering this issue? And from the U.K.'s point of view, we would like access, including for cars where the duty is high, it has been reduced for Bourbon, we would like Scotch whiskey to be reduced down to 30%, if that is possible. Of course, financial services.

And the total trade and goods and services between our countries grew by 10% it is now £42 billion. The dye aspera, the living bridge, members, people like me, that are just ethnic minority community in the UK, the most successful ethnic minority community in the UK by far reaching the very top in every field where there's politics, business, on any other area. And we often talk about trade but it is also investment. If you look at the Britain meet India report the Indian companies and the UK there are almost 1,000 of them turning £50 billion, employing over 100,000 people, British companies in India, revenue, £51 billion employing 700,000 people.

Technology and innovation but of the amount of collaboration that is there and the potential is huge. Security and defence in this uncertain world we are living in, and yet only 3% of the last decade, only 3% of the defence acquisitions came from the UK and as India seeks to advance its defence industry, diversify away from Russia, the British defence sector emerges as a key collaborator of technology transfers that support India's efforts. And then of course you have the India joining quad and I have said for a long time that the UK can join, can the Minister agree we would have called plus? That we are members of as well.

External affairs Minister as well has his in the UK as I speak at Chatham House yesterday he said he is cautiously optimistic about the UK India free trade agreement negotiations and he says I am cautiously optimistic and I hope it does not take that long. I asked the Noble Lord the Minister three Diwali's has gone by since we started these negotiations. Please let us set a deadline. Let us not have the best being the enemy of the good. Let us conclude the free trade group let us set a deadline, let's

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get it done. It is a great pleasure to follow

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It is a great pleasure to follow my Noble Friend and the huge focus on India, huge amount of work that on India, huge amount of work that he does in the UK in relation to that and I congratulate the baroness that and I congratulate the baroness as well on securing this debate. She has a distinguished record having served as a minister in the Foreign served as a minister in the Foreign Office in Southeast Asia and knows what she speaks of and I speak as what she speaks of and I speak as The Chair of UK Asian mac business I have been proud to hold for the last two years having also been the trade envoy to Vietnam under the ownership

17:06

Lord Vaizey of Didcot (Conservative)

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optimise -- Theresa May. It is a region that I got another well and is a huge opportunity for that UK trade between them in the UK it trade between them in the UK it stands at around £50 billion per stands at around £50 billion per yer. The UK is slightly ahead in terms of exports in terms of import and goods and services there is and goods and services there is roughly a 50-50 split between what we export. If we go through the kind of members who are members of the UK of members who are members of the UK as the business Council it gives you a flavour of where those opportunities lie.

Of course professional service companies, financial service companies, financial service companies, universities, education companies. We have recently had merely us which reflects again as it were the new economy and the new businesses, especially tech businesses that can make huge inroads in this country. We have as noble Lords do not need reminding fantastic ties in the region, Malaysia and Singapore, both Commonwealth nations. Both with very visible investment in the UK. You only have to look across the river to see the incredible regeneration of the power station.

Thailand, the Philippines, Indonesia, and Vietnam as well. Huge and growing economies where we do a lot of business again. Very prominent investment from Thailand. I heard my Noble Friend mention her visit to Indonesia. I was lucky to sit down with the president of Indonesia when he visited the UK recently and also the Prime Minister of Malaysia who is in the country recently as well. We are constantly being visited by high level politicians from all of these countries, all of whom want to engage with us.

And we ourselves are very lucky to have some very first- class officials based in the region, not least Martin can, our trade Commissioner, and our ambassador. There is everything to play for. We have a trade deal with Singapore as well as the digital economy agreement, we have a free trade deal with me and am, on the back of the EU deal. Minister Alexander negotiated an enhanced trade partnership with Thailand, we signed it in September, we have an economic growth partnership with Indonesia.

Not very sexy names, but they are important agreements. And we are the first dialogue partner for 25 years. And, of course, we are members of the TPT which includes four Asian mac members with knocking on the door and the CT TP is already delivering significant benefits because you can now export chocolate to Malaysia without being any tax. The CBT PP has given us in effect a free trade agreement with Malaysia by the back door. I would simply conclude that to do the points for the Minister the first is obviously that Malaysia is currently The Chair of Asian mac and I cannot over emphasise enough how engaged Malaysia is with the agenda and how much Malaysia seeks to engage with the UK on digital, not least on Artificial Intelligence.

There are many new institutions that have been established in Malaysia which quite openly mimic hours with his imitation being this is to rest form of flattery. They look to us for guidance. Not patronising, they look to us to engage on how they should develop their tech policy and their tech infrastructure. And, secondly, I was flattered to be asked to the Indonesian embassy to staff for narration about his MP put his cards on the table and said we are very keen to have a free trade agreement with the UK.

It is sitting there on the table. I do not know if it is quite ready but you have got an enthusiastic partner in Indonesia. We recognise the Government has priorities, not least with India,

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but Indonesia. I thank the Noble Lady Baroness

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I thank the Noble Lady Baroness Anelay of St Johns versa cure in this debate. Which is extremely timely. As many noble Lords have timely. As many noble Lords have noted, the attempt for a UK India free trade agreement started in January 2022 and has indeed just January 2022 and has indeed just restarted last month. Now, I am concerned chiefly with one issue of transparency. The Government has transparency. The Government has apparently inherited the negotiating IFS from its predecessor Government but it has given no indications that Munster seek any alteration or to reopen any included chapters.

Now, I hope that this is a different Government to the Johnson Government saying you might expect a different approach. One of my chief areas of concern is the issue of IST S, the investor state dispute settlement and the position of both this Government and its predecessor why SDS has often been ambiguous. It was exempted from the U.K.'s first from scratch postgraduate post Brexit free trade agreement with Australia and New Zealand, but in other contexts Ministers have publicly defended the continued use of IST S.

In December, 2023, the then investment minister was asked during a session of the International Agreements Committee without the UK would be pressing for IST S in the India negotiations. To which he responded he did not know. This Government has yet to set out its position and my chief question to the Noble Lord the Minister is today what is the government's stance on IST as in the India deal? And, dear, with Southeast Asian deals. Why are mice or concerned about this? Coincidentally, the Guardian is running it large series of articles that sets this out very clearly.

One of those highlights the case agreement for the world's largest financial unification company is backing a case against Greenland, population less than 60,000. They are demanding that despite the population democratically agreed that they did not want uranium mining on Greenland, either uranium mining is agreed, or £11.5 billion is paid to the company that was going to my net, and of course this falls further. No, litigation funding and financiers to be sort of August on claims about car accidents and similar, but the Guardian is highlighting that there has been more than 400 cases lodged against Governments and they have become far more common and far more lucrative.

Far more than £120 billion of public money was awarded to firms through IST escorts, including at least $84 billion to fossil fuel companies and 7.8 billion to mining companies. These have become an increasingly popular investment class for hedge funds and other investors. We have the democratic decisions of Governments for which the pupils are being forced to pay by what is essentially financial barriers. I think it is clear why we should not have IST S in the trade agreement.

Very briefly a couple of other points to raise about the labour and environmental chapters in the India deal. A leak in December 2023 reported that trade negotiations had already led to the conclusion of the climate and labour As, that would not include legally enforcement on labour rights or environmental standards. In the Noble Lord the Minister see if the Government is truly happy and is proceeding on that basis of note legal commitments? And, finally, I have to note the lack of democracy in the situation we are in now compared to one we were a member of the European Union.

All of this is incredibly opaque and nontransparent and surely the Government wants to turnover a new leaf and start doing this in a democratic and open way when we are talking about free trade deals.

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I want to start by thanking Mike

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I want to start by thanking Mike Noble Friend for this debate. It is incredibly timely and very

17:15

Baroness Jones of Moulsecoomb (Green Party)

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incredibly timely and very important. And I have been involved with business to business with India for over three decades, when I was a non-executive at the Asian business Association as my first dip into business. There is a really fast- moving geopolitical movement going on around us, and so it is really

17:15

Baroness Verma (Conservative)

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critical that we actually secured deals with India. The largest deals with India. The largest population country on the planet, 1.4 billion people. Both countries 1.4 billion people. Both countries are well respected convener's for many other nations, as we have seen many other nations, as we have seen India in its own region in the Southeast Asia region and, of course, the UK with its own course, the UK with its own convening powers across Europe as recently seen by Prime Minister recently seen by Prime Minister Starmer and, of course, our allies with America and others.

But whilst we are at this critical moment and we are looking at this FDA, what we do know is that by securing this we actually will start to leave some of the extra dependency that we have had on a very few countries to a had on a very few countries to a I think we really do need to encourage this deal to be done as quickly as possible. I want to add the strengths of why the U.K.'s best placed to be with India on this deal.

First of all as Lord Sahota said, the relationship goes back many many years. It is also a relationship now that is coming together because we have a diaspora here that is incredibly important to both India and the UK. I don't think the 1.2 million diaspora we have in this country are fully utilised for its soft power strengths. I would urge the government to have a look at how they can further engage with their diaspora links to be able to sometimes get some of those nuances that sometimes becomes blocked to unlock.

I also am president and founder of the APPG for India UK investment and trade APPG. It has been one of the most popular APPG's in Parliament, because India recognises the importance of our parliamentarians as we recognise the importance of engaging with them. There are so many areas I think we can strengthen our relationship can strengthen our relationship outside of the FTA, part of those other defence sector, tax, research, develop meant in space, higher education-sustainable green technologies.

-- And of course sustainable. We have so many envoys in other countries. It is beyond my understanding why with a country as big as India, we do not have dedicated envoys for India from the UK. I know ministers have got a great job, our High Commissioner is an Deputy High Commissioner is a brilliant, but they are tasked with a lot to do in a large country. It is therefore critical that trade envoys, I'm sure my noble friend will say it's the soft power that you take with the trade envoy role that actually helps to continue cementing this partnership, this relationship.

I've said it over and over again when my party was in government, I don't know why it didn't happen, I now ask this government to see if they would actually take a leaf and a jump in please encourage trade envoys there. We are a country at the frontline of convening, that is -- let us utilise our strengths.

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I welcome this debate and thank the noble Baroness for bringing this important issue before the House. I important issue before the House. I broached this topic as someone with many decades of experience at the many decades of experience at the heart of UK India trade relations. Indeed, I had the privilege of Indeed, I had the privilege of playing a central role in the playing a central role in the twinning of London and Delhi in the early part of the century.

So this I have seen firsthand trade has strengthened the relationship between our two nations. Reinforcing

17:19

Lord Loomba (Crossbench)

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our bonds as equal partners with our bonds as equal partners with deep ties. At a time of increasing global uncertainty such ties matter global uncertainty such ties matter more than ever. If Free Trade more than ever. If Free Trade Agreement between the UK and India is well structured trade agreement will trait that might create God -- jobs. Open new markets for British businesses and enhance investment businesses and enhance investment flows between our economies. The much anticipated Free Trade Agreement between India and the United Kingdom stalled for over two years in the midst of political shifts and economic uncertainties.

It was brought back into focus with British business and trade secretary Jonathan Reynolds meeting his Indian counterpart in New Delhi on February 24 and kickstarting the two-day discussions, and I hope it progresses vast -- fast and for the good of the two countries. The latest round of talks has been marked by renewed sense of urgency marked by renewed sense of urgency and a mission as both nations work to carve out the differences and finalise a mutually beneficial agreement.

We are aware the many complexities and one impediment to reaching such agreements has been the UK government reluctance to reform visa rules for overseas students, including from India. It is clearly in both our countries interests to encourage academic exchanges which in turn foster innovation, business partnerships and cross-cultural understanding. It is therefore counter-productive to count overseas students who bring substantial revenue to our universities and economy with an immigration statistics unless they seek to remain beyond a Visa level.

Full stop such as two years post graduation. Can the noble Lord the Minister confirm the government will adopt a pragmatic approach to student visas, recognising the mutual benefit and ensure this issue does not impede progress towards a Free Trade Agreement?

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I am very grateful for the noble Lady to bring this debate to us and a very sensible way in which she a very sensible way in which she opened it. It is a regrettable fact that notwithstanding the excellent that notwithstanding the excellent work of noble Lords and ladies who work of noble Lords and ladies who have contributed to UK and India and wider regional trade that we are wider regional trade that we are punching below our weight it comes to seizing the opportunities for trade in this area.

It is just three years since the boosterism of what had been claimed to be a five-star agreement by Diwali in 2022. I think the reality of trade policy is such that there are difficult trade offices literally and there are hard

17:23

Lord Purvis of Tweed (Liberal Democrat)

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choices to be made. In that regard I wish the government well in the talks that are underway. There are I believe now a sense of reality, not believe now a sense of reality, not a sense of boosterism. Even under the previous administration the the previous administration the anticipated 15 year gains to UK GDP anticipated 15 year gains to UK GDP for an FTA with India was forecast to be between 0.00 and 0.08%. Nevertheless this very sectors that Baroness Anelay had mentioned can see sector by sector growth was one aspect that is not been mentioned in the debate so far that I raised in the debate we had in 2022 is trade diversion.

One of the aspects that we have to be very mindful of my view is that if we have an FTA with India which I would support, we have to be mindful that even on the previous government's figures, almost all of the potential gain and extra trade with India would be offset I reduced trade with other countries in the RC and region. So any tariff benefits for one nation could be at the cost to others especially for banker. I hope when the Minister responses this debate he can say in the discussions we are having trade diversion is a key part of the discussions.

It has also been raised that there are areas of complexity in our relationship with India whether it is India in BRICS, whether it is war games with Russia they have been carrying out over the last year, the rupee ruble swap where they have certain sectors of the Indian economy profited from sanctions circumvention on Ukraine, and of course there are the barriers that many noble Lords in this House have worked hard to reduce over many years but especially within the financial sector, FDI, lack of consensus on greenhouse gas emissions, nuclear, farming subsidies and policies et cetera.

All of these areas I hope can be addressed in talks. Finally with regards to the wider area, just before the February recess I and other Parliamentary colleagues visited Singapore and Malaysia through Commonwealth Parliamentary Association, I can say that the Minister is held in very high regard because every single meeting we had people asked us to pass on our regards to the Minister. That leads to one of our observations which has been touched on before, I think the honourable lady Verma had indicated it.

We are not sending a sufficient number of ministers, high-level officials, and delegations to this region. Human to human discussions is very important when it comes to facilitating trade and soft power and we should be doing more, I'm very pleased that Minister West will be in the region and I wish a lot for the visit. Was also very clear to us that Malaysia, the presidency of ASEAN and its vision for renewable technology and green power is an enormous opportunity for the UK.

I want to close with an appeal to the Minister and I suspect he won't be able to respond to me today but there is an economic integration program that the UK government funds for ASEAN looking at how we promote trade within it. That is scored as officials because it is technical assistance. I hope very much that as a result of the decisions made to cuts by more than half official developments assistance those areas of technical support for trade promotion for the very growth that we wish to see will be protected and not cut.

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It's a pleasure to follow Lord Purvis and I'm very grateful to Baroness Anelay for raising this Baroness Anelay for raising this short debate which has been as I'm sure noble Lords would agree most

17:27

Lord Sharpe of Epsom (Conservative)

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sure noble Lords would agree most fascinating full stop regarding the progress of His Majesty's Government in securing free trade agreements with India and countries in Southeast Asia, as she said this is the bedrock it's a matter of enormous significance. Since leaving the European Union the previous Conservative government did pursue an ambitious and outward -looking trade policy, it secured agreement that unlock new opportunities for British businesses and consumers and our commitment to the Indo-Pacific region was that fast as I'm sure noble Lords will acknowledge.

We recognise its growing economic minutes and strategic importance I would say to Lord Purvis that's not boosterism that is common sense. In May 2021 Prime Minister Boris Johnson and Prime Minister Modi agreed to deepen trade cooperation between the UK and India by the enhanced trade partnership. The enhanced trade partnership. The noble Lord Sahota and Lord Bilimoria made compelling observations about India's spectacular growth which makes the case for this deal and obviously a future FTA extremely attractive. The strategic approach outlined under that agreement outlined the following benefits at such a deal, a potential increase in UK exports to India by between £8,800,000,000.16 £0.7 billion by 2035, a boost to UK GDP potentially up to 6.2 billion by 2020 -- and 35 depending on the final terms.

The government strategic case is surely unarguable, is to develop UK status as an independent trading nation which seeks trade and investment opportunities and champions free trade full surely that is even more pertinent in a world where such principles are currently under threat. I do think Lord Purvis raised an interesting point around trade diversion and I look forward to the Minister's answer on that I appreciate any agreement reached must be beneficial for both countries and that can take time. That being said British exporters and phantom services technology life sciences and manufacturing have much to gain.

Could the Minister give us an update on progress for the benefit of our ambitious British businesses seeking more certainty for their exporting future and particularly in light of the can petition from other areas and countries that were pointed out by Baroness Anelay and Lord Sahota full stop perhaps also he might like to comment on Baroness Verma and Lord Bilimoria's comments on the wonderful advantages we have because of our diaster population -- diaspora population in this country our trade relationships with ASEAN nations which is a region rep scenting the world's best -- fifth- largest economy I don't tell the Lord opposite anything about that, or endanger stagnation full stop the majority of the work behind the U.K.'s accession to the CPTPP was done under the previous government and we welcome the current government's accession we must now capitalise on this advantage.

The previous government agreements with Singapore and Vietnam set a strong foundation so I asked the Minister to tell the House what steps the covenant is taking to advance new partnerships with Indonesia which is a fabulous opportunity Thailand and the Philippines. What is the governance strategy for this region so right with potential benefits for so right with potential benefits for As my Noble Friend extent, the trade benefits are substantial and obviously from his perspective as The Chair of UK ASEAN business respected I think the Minister should criteria to consider using the services on the part of the world.

Free trade has long been a driver of prosperity, innovation and economic growth. The Conservative vision was one of dynamism and ambition but under this Government we are concerned we are seeing signs of drift. Cut the Noble Lord the Minister reassure me that the Government is still steadfastly aligned with the previous Government strategic vision as outlined under the previous deal? The negotiation of this scale do require leadership, vision, and determination. Businesses, consumers need certainty and our global partners need confidence in Britain's commitment to free trade also finally, can I ask the Government what specific steps are being taken to accelerate her talks with India? How does the Government intend to build on the CPP T and perhaps most importantly does the garment still believe in the previous Government strategic vision?

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I am pleased to respond and I congratulate the noble Baroness for congratulate the noble Baroness for securing this debate. And to all the Noble Lord that have contributed Noble Lord that have contributed this afternoon. As many noble Lords as today, and if I do not, I promise as today, and if I do not, I promise to write to noble Lords on those unanswered questions. At first I unanswered questions. At first I want to briefly touch on the close relationship between the UK and relationship between the UK and India.

The UK and India have a very deep and vibrant relationship, building on the living bridge between our two countries, including something like 1.7 million people with Indian heritage who call the UK

17:32

Lord Leong (Labour)

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their home of their colleagues in this House, including my wife. Our

17:32

Lord Sharpe of Epsom (Conservative)

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two countries are deeply interwoven together through first our shared values through democracy, committed to the rule-based international

17:33

Lord Leong (Labour)

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to the rule-based international order. Our cultural ties, and while I would be remiss not to mention our love of curry. Our relationship also includes the millions in India who includes the millions in India who have followed and the huge market for Bollywood movies in the UK which for Bollywood movies in the UK which I and my wife enjoyed most weekends and occasionally dance to the music. and occasionally dance to the music. And, of course, these ties are also visible in our mutual championing of trade.

Free and fair trade and investment which is what we are here to discuss today. This government's core mission is to deliver economic growth. Boosting trade abroad is essential to delivering growth at home. That is why this Government is committed to negotiating a comprehensive free trade agreement and bilateral investment treaty with India. One of the fastest-growing economies in the world. Securing a deal with India is a top priority for this Government. And it is easy to see why.

India is expected to be the third-largest economy in 2028 with 60 million middle-class by 2030. But that UK exporters currently face substantial tariffs, including as mentioned earlier the Noble Lord, 150% tariff on whiskey. The trading relationship was with £41 billion last year. Our investment relationship already supports something close to 600,000 jobs across both economies with FDI projects creating more than 7,500 jobs in the period between 2023 and 2024. But there is more that we can do.

That is why on 24 February right honourable friend the business and trade secretary Jonathan Reynolds travelled to India to relaunch negotiations with India towards a free trade agreement and the bilateral investment treaty that liberalises goods and services between our countries and of course the U.K.'s high food safety environmental standards and protections and facilitate easier temporary movement of business people to provide their expertise. I am pleased to see a good process -- my progress was made and negotiations are appearing to move forwards to a deal that delivers on the mutual ambitions of economic growth.

And I want to touch on a couple of points raised by the noble Lords before I touch on the issue of trade with Southeast Asia. But we are aware of India's ongoing talks with the EU and the stated ambition on timeline. Whilst our focus is on delivering a quality agreement rather than any agreement that made achieve at pace securing a deal is our top priority for the Government as it is for India. We are pleased progress is or was achieved by the Secretary of State and our shared commitment to regress these negotiations at pace.

Important to secure hope members of the House will appreciate that I cannot compromise the U.K.'s leading position by getting into specifics of life negotiation. Of course the trade agreement one of the main ambitions is to reduce tariffs faced by UK exporters. This is particularly important when the terrace can exceed like I mentioned earlier whiskey. On these as mentioned by several noble Lords negotiations consider only business mobility, so only cover relevant business visas which are by their nature limited, temporary, and specific purposes.

This is also beneficial to UK exporters delivering services abroad. Student visas are not part of the trade deals. This Government has maintained that we are willing to negotiate at pace to a deal in the UK, whilst I recognise that we would all like this deal to be speedily signed, the governor can only sign once we have secured the right deal for the UK, so we will be prioritising the quality of the deal rather than the haste with which we can secure it.

No, you have asked about that and to achieve the best possible deal for the UK we need to protect our negotiating positions. That is why we have the details of that. What I can say is that we seek to drive economic growth for the UK, so whilst respecting that UK sensitivities such as those on the NHS, food, health, safety, which would not change under this or any UK free trade deal. Any free trade UK free trade deal. Any free trade agreement would undermine the high standards with which would not be decided in any trade agreements.

The Government is firmly committed to upholding these high standards. On the post study as has previously been mentioned, I would like to remind all Noble Friends and Lords in this government's position never migration has not changed and I would just send a plea to which for would just send a plea to which for the Government on migration, so not to be drawn at this stage. We remain committed to the potential of human right. When we have concerns they are raised directly with partner Governments including at ministerial level, so this engagement is undertaken separately to negotiations of any trade agreement, although they are part of the open and trusting relationships with that purpose.

Now, the issue is we will not compromise our high standards as I said earlier. We will also not undermine the effectiveness of our level when we are implementing any trade deals. The baroness asked about trade and in the UK India trade it is a top priority, as mentioned, and the Government will consider the noble Lords suggestion, I just want to put on record that we currently have a very excellent trade Commissioner of the UK to India and they are doing a fantastic job.

Baroness Bennett asked about IST S, it is considered on a case- by-case basis. I am not going to pre-empt the outcome of any further negotiations. She also did ask about environment and labour. We could all use the FDA to change partners domestic legislation but an FDA builds upon the closer relationship to an honest conversation on intellectual property and I would have to read to the noble Baroness because that is a complex area itself. No, I come to the issue of trade with Southeast Asia, I grew up in Malaysia in the region with 10 member states, something like 670 million people with a combined GDP of something like 3.6 670 million people with a combined GDP of something like 3.6 trillion and growing at a rate of 5% annually.

It is a big market and we should consider it and the UK recognises their very importance of the Southeast Asia to UK businesses and to the global economy and the Noble Lord is absolutely right, I think that more Ministers should visit the region and I encourage my ministerial colleagues to consider visiting Malaysia, Singapore, and wider regions and I really pleased that the Minister is visiting Malaysia this week. Total trade between the UK and Southeast Asia is £50 billion, as mentioned by Lord Vaizey and I would like to thank him for all of the work he has done as Chair of the Asian back business Council.

He has done a fantastic job. Southeast Asia is also an invaluable source of investment in the UK, as we have seen recently that relation companywide to your business have invested or rather announced a £4 billion worth of investment the UK over the next five pairs, including transforming the greater Bristol area delivering 30,000 jobs across the UK. The UK has secured bilateral free trade agreements with Singapore and the agreements with Singapore and the CCTV as mentioned and also secured an agreement with Brunei and Malaysia for the very first time.

In 2020 to the UK signed the digital economy agreement, outside of the free trade agreements the UK has strong relationships with Southeast strong relationships with Southeast Asia countries, regularly trading in Singapore, Singapore and Malaysia. They sent the UK Thailand and an straight partnership and the UK also engages regularly with a dialogue partner and they are the first to ASEAN. The UK and Indonesia will work towards a new Indonesian UK economic growth partnership as a precursor to any format conversations on free trade agreement.

The Noble Lord asked about trade division. The Government carefully considers the impact on a wider region were negotiating a free trade agreement and will do so as part of a deal. The baroness asked about Indonesian potential economic growth. Recognising importance in Indonesia to the global economy, the Prime Minister and President agreed to work towards a new Indonesian UK economic growth partnership as I mentioned earlier. And yes, the UK values projects such as the noble Baroness I have said and transnational education is one of the fastest-growing sectors for this country.

As far as future trade agreements as asked by Lord Vaizey and also the Noble Lord shop, whilst we cannot currently commit to seeking new FDA rules it is important that we find ways to enhance our bilateral cooperation and economic ties and maintaining our trade relationship into the future and this is what we have been doing with enhanced partnership, so in conclusion end up region remains a key and ongoing area of interest for the UK and it is dynamic and developing economies representing opportunities for the UK.

I am pleased to see strong progress in our discussion in this region, ensuring a future relationship remains mutually beneficial for all, supportive and respiratory and economic security.

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I beg to move that the House do

10:29

Oral questions: Introducing admission charges to museums and galleries for non-UK residents

17:50

Lord Leong (Labour)

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10:29

Oral questions: Introducing admission charges to museums and galleries for non-UK residents

17:50

Lord Leong (Labour)

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This debate has concluded

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