Trade Bill (Third sitting)

Alan Brown Excerpts

Committee Debate: 3rd sitting: House of Commons
Thursday 25th January 2018 Public Bill Committees

[Matt Western]

Potatoes are?

Gary Stephenson: Yes.

Sarah Dickson: Our experience is that we are often the ones working with the EU to draft the provisions on whatever it might be—labelling, or other requirements that would be needed for a mutual recognition—so we currently work closely with the EU negotiators to provide them with the advice and support that they need.

Elspeth Macdonald: There is a more fundamental issue from my perspective. There are specific exemptions from reservation through the Scotland Act that make it a devolved function for technical standards to be set in relation to food. There is a fundamental question above: it is about not just the Government, but Governments having those discussions with businesses.

[Alan Brown (Kilmarnock and Loudoun) (SNP)]

Q I have a two-part question, if that is okay, Chair. Gary, coming back to tariff-rate quotas, you suggested that different sectors should be able to have input. Do you have any concerns about devolved Administrations and their need for input, and about how, even if tariff-rate quotas are agreed via subdivision, those quotas will be allocated to the different nations in the UK?

Gary Stephenson: I think it is critical, particularly looking at some sectors, that the devolved Governments consult with sectors, and that there is a unified approach. This is too important to get parochial about. It is an important issue for the whole UK, but there is a higher impact in some sectors, particularly in Scotland and Wales; I am thinking of hill farming products and that type of thing.

[Alan Brown]

Q Does that mean that we need greater clarity on how that will work?

Gary Stephenson: It would help.

[Alan Brown]

Q I have one more, Chair, if that is okay. Elspeth, I believe that you have come out as backing the Scottish and Welsh Governments’ decisions to withhold a legislative consent motion. Will you outline your concerns and say what you would like changed in the Bill to alleviate those concerns?

Elspeth Macdonald: The principal issue with the Bill that causes us great difficulties is the way in which it constrains the ability of the Scottish Parliament and Scottish Ministers, and consequently our ability, to act and regulate in ways that are considered appropriate for businesses and the public in Scotland. The fundamental issue is essentially the same as in the case of the constraints imposed through the European Union (Withdrawal) Bill; it is a similar matter of high principle that overarches the Bills.

[Anna McMorrin (Cardiff North) (Lab)]

Q May I return to geographical indications and EU rules? Sarah Dickson, can you tell us a little more about your concerns on this? What if, for example, South Korea raised objections on geographical indications in a new trade agreement?

Sarah Dickson: When the EU negotiates a trade agreement, it always looks to protect geographical indications. It does that in different ways. Not every agreement has exactly the same provisions, but it is always what they call an offensive interest of the EU to make sure that geographical names are protected. Where we think that an agreement with that intellectual property protection—that is basically what a geographical indication gives us—does not exist anymore, we will have to find other means, which means spending time and resources trying to work the country’s system. All countries, via their TRIPS—trade-related aspects of intellectual property rights—agreement, should have intellectual property; it is just that the easiest, clearest way to do this is through a free trade agreement.

We have already started work, in countries where there is an EU trade agreement, on making sure that we double up, so to speak, and work through the Government system to try to make sure that there is no intellectual property gap.

--- Later in debate ---

[Mike Wood]

Q I do not know whether I am not making this clear. You seem not to be quite answering the question. You do understand that this Bill covers only those countries with which the European Union currently has a trade deal, which does not include the United States? There is nothing in the Bill that would give the Government any powers to conclude any trade deal with the United States.

Gordon MacIntyre-Kemp: Right. I understand what you mean now.

[Alan Brown]

Q I have a question for David. Looking forward, as well as establishing the trade agreements that the Bill is meant to carry over, am I correct in thinking that your industry has an understanding of the licensing arrangements that will be put in place with the EU, and the research and access to labour issues that need to progress as well to give the industry an overall view?

David Scott: Absolutely. I would refer you to the Industry Leadership Group position paper written by Dave Tudor, the chair of the Industry Leadership Group for Life Sciences Scotland. There are four key points. One is regulation, which we have talked about already: maintenance of regulation on a harmonised basis. There is trade and supply, which we are obviously talking about today. Access to talent is a key thing. In Scotland, we are a diverse community. Research and development are best done using a diverse set of people, so that freedom of movement and the ability to attract people not just into Scotland but into the UK is fundamental for us. That is not to downplay our abilities, but a mix of different people helps us bring the best ideas to the table.

Again, from a Scottish point of view, we have a heritage of innovation in the medical sciences that we are very proud of, and we want to continue to use our talent base and other talent to help us achieve that.

[Alan Brown]

Q March 2019 is looming fast. In what kind of timescale does the industry need to see the other arrangements that you are looking for clarity on?

David Scott: In my opinion, we are too late. People are starting to put processes in place and to make contingencies. We need some clarity on the issue as soon as possible.

[Alan Brown]

Q On access to labour, I assume that you would agree that perhaps some immigration arrangements need to be agreed on a sectoral basis. Would there also be merit in Scotland being able to control its own immigration?

David Scott: Again, as much clarity as possible on that is good. I have some European nationals who work for me. They are concerned about their position and whether or not they will continue to work for me as we go forward. As soon as we can get clarity on that, an agreement would be fantastic. If that were within the powers of the Scottish Government, I would welcome it, but it is about understanding as quickly as possible how to get clarity so that we can allay the fears of our own people and go out to our customer base to allay their fears and stop any potential actions before they happen.

[Alan Brown]

Does anyone else want to add to that?

Jonathan Hindle: The furniture industry has a similar exposure to migrant workers. We have a high degree of Polish migrant workers in the industry, particularly with sewing and upholstery skills. The unknown quantities about all of this have meant that some of them are leaving, so there is concern in the industry to provide some clarity, once again, about how we would deal with migrant issues for industry.

Gordon MacIntyre-Kemp: Again, some of our members have expressed concerns. In particular, highland hotels are saying that 65% to 70% of their staff during the summer are EU nationals and so on. There are significant issues in Scotland. I think that this shows, in terms of the overall remain vote, that immigration is seen radically differently in Scotland in terms of an opportunity to engineer the age of our society and bring skills to Scotland.

[Matt Western]

Q I have a quick question for Mr MacIntyre-Kemp. The very first line of the Bill says that the Bill is to

“Make provision about the implementation of international trade agreements”.

To elaborate on the point you were making earlier, what do you understand that to mean?

Gordon MacIntyre-Kemp: What do I understand the “international trade agreements” to be?

Trade Bill (Second sitting)

Alan Brown Excerpts

Committee Debate: 2nd sitting: House of Commons
Tuesday 23rd January 2018 Public Bill Committees

[Martin Vickers]

Q Of a watered-down version.

Dr Hestermeyer: There might be political pressures but I am not a politician; I am just a lawyer, so on a legal position. Obviously, that is the past; that is not the future.

[Alan Brown (Kilmarnock and Loudoun) (SNP)]

Q Jude, earlier on, you mentioned tariff-rate quotas and the fact that the whole negotiating process is potentially back up for grabs between the UK, EU countries and the third countries. Going forward, as part of these negotiations, as a politician I would want to know which third parties are advising the Government and what the correct asks are. What impact assessment has been made of getting the desired result and any other trade-off that might be associated with that? How will we make sure that the correct people—the politicians, I would suggest—have approved or ratified the deal? What needs to be done or what amendments need to be made to the Bill to allow such a transparent process and that level of scrutiny?

Jude Kirton-Darling: In my experience of the European Parliament’s level of scrutiny, what we have at European level legally is quite limited. Inside the treaty we have a right to accept or veto trade deals at the end of the negotiations. That is included in the Bill, but the second element which we have which is not included in the Bill, which we use much more effectively, is that we have the right to be kept informed throughout the negotiations. That is a legal obligation inside the European treaties. That effectively then gives Members of the European Parliament a hook on which is placed the whole of parliamentary scrutiny at a European level.

You could amend the Trade Bill to include a hook in the same way, which would then allow you to develop some kind of working statute which could evolve over time. These processes evolve over time—improve, I hope, over time—with more transparency as trust is built between institutions. However, you need that legal hook at the beginning. Within the European Parliament, as a result of the hook, we have monitoring groups on every single negotiation that the EU is undertaking and established trade agreements. We have monitoring groups which meet behind closed doors on a regular basis with the chief negotiators, in which MEPs can scrutinise and ask any question. We have access to the majority of documents. During the negotiations you will have heard about the TTIP reading room. We had access to all the EU side of the negotiation documents. Crucially, in that reading room, we also had the read-outs from the European negotiating team of the process of each round of negotiations. To put it into context, you had the legal text of the EU negotiating position and, through the read-out, you could see where the room for manoeuvre was with the US side of the negotiations. Those documents give you the capacity then really to question.

[The Chair]

Thank you. At quarter to three, I will stop you talking, even if you are mid-sentence.

--- Later in debate ---

[Matt Western]

Q Can I ask that of the others?

George Peretz: I am not sure I have much to add to that very complete answer to the question.

Does it require Henry VIII powers? It probably does require them because you have to amend primary legislation. The questions about the degree of scrutiny and so on, are, I think, questions for you, but the need for a pretty fast procedure to amend our law to deal with what will quite often be technical points that involve changes seems fairly clear.

[Alan Brown]

Q We have heard that Wallonia has got a veto. The devolved nations do not have a veto in this. Indeed the UK Government can make provision in devolved competencies. If you were a Scottish or Welsh Minister, would you recommend withholding a legislative consent motion unless this Bill was amended?

Michael Clancy: When I get elected?

[The Chair]

With that, can I thank all three of our witnesses for their extremely interesting evidence? You have covered a lot of ground in a short space of time. We are most grateful to you all for that.

Examination of Witnesses

Tom Reynolds, Gareth Stace and Cliff Stevenson gave evidence.

Business of the House

Alan Brown Excerpts

Thursday 11th January 2018 Commons Chamber

[Paul Maynard]

I am sure that the hon. Gentleman will recognise the volume of work that is going on right now between all those involved—the Mayor of London, the Metropolitan police and the Home Office—to try to understand the underlying causes that have led to the increases that we have seen and the changes in modus operandi at the moment. He is quite right to keep pressing the Government, and I urge him to do so through the usual channels and by calling for debates.

[Alan Brown (Kilmarnock and Loudoun) (SNP)]

This week, the Cabinet Office confirmed to me that the target turnaround time for a response to letters from hon. Members is 20 days, yet in response to letters that I have sent, it took two months to get a letter from the Chancellor. I am now approaching 100 days and counting for a response from the Environment Secretary and two months and counting for a response from the Energy Minister. Can the Minister make a statement, outlining what is going to be done to hold this new dynamic Cabinet to account when it comes to responding to hon. Members?

[Paul Maynard]

I know that the Leader of the House takes this matter immensely seriously, and I certainly did when I was a responding Minister. We have strict guidelines to which we expect Departments to adhere, and they are monitored carefully. I urge the hon. Gentleman to ensure that he chases up the replies that he has not received. We will make sure—as I am sure that the Leader of the House will do—that we always strive for continuous improvement.

Finance (No. 2) Bill

Alan Brown Excerpts

2nd reading: House of Commons
Monday 11th December 2017 Commons Chamber

[Rachel Maclean (Redditch) (Con)]

Thank you, Mr Speaker, for calling me to speak in support of this critically important Finance Bill. I listened with a great deal of interest to the hon. Member for Bootle (Peter Dowd), as I do at every opportunity. I am sure that we will have many more such opportunities in our careers. He came up with a long list of things that he was dissatisfied with in the Government’s approach to this country’s finances. Unfortunately, he missed out certain things that he really ought to have mentioned, and I would like to take this opportunity to list the things in the Bill that he ought to have praised and welcomed.

The first is the jobs miracle. Unemployment is at a 43-year low. Unlike my hon. Friend the Member for Sleaford and North Hykeham (Dr Johnson), I had actually been born 43 years ago, but I definitely do not remember the figures. Everyone up and down the country—including my constituents in Redditch—is currently benefiting from record high levels of employment, enabling them to work and bring home money for their families. They have a pay packet at the end of the week, and they have secure long-term jobs and the prospect of fulfilling their potential in life. I welcome that, and it is a shame that the hon. Member for Bootle does not.

[Alan Brown (Kilmarnock and Loudoun) (SNP)]

Does this jobs miracle include apprenticeships for 65-year-old WASPI women?

[Rachel Maclean]

I am delighted that the hon. Gentleman has raised that point, which we discussed in another debate recently. I made it clear at the time that an apprenticeship is not right for every woman, but it may be right for some. This Government have set their face against ageism. If someone wants to work and they are 60, 61, 62, 65 or even 70, they can still contribute. Some Members on the Government Benches are older, and they are still contributing and doing an excellent job. We should stand against discrimination, because ageism and sexism together are a toxic combination. Indeed, if my constituents see fit to re-elect me, I hope to be in the House when I am 65, 66, 67 and maybe even 70 or 75.

[Alan Brown]

I thank the hon. Lady for giving way one more time. I went to see my local WASPI group on Saturday morning, and I ask her to go and speak to WASPI women in her constituency to see whether they think it is sexist or discriminatory to promote apprenticeships to them. I can assure her that they are not happy at the suggestion.

[Rachel Maclean]

I thank the hon. Gentleman for that intervention. I assure him that I have spoken to WASPI women in my constituency, and I have spoken to many other women of that age or older who have welcomed my comments.

The next thing that the hon. Member for Bootle omitted from his long list is that 31 million people have seen a tax cut during this Government’s time in office, meaning that people take home more of what they earn—more hard-earned money in their pocket at the end of the week.

Let us talk about the jobs that have been created.

High Speed 2: Electronic Deposit of Documents

Alan Brown Excerpts

Tuesday 11th July 2017 Commons Chamber

[Alan Brown (Kilmarnock and Loudoun) (SNP)]

I was not originally going to speak, but I will just say a couple of words if that is okay. As the shadow Leader of the House said, the changes are eminently sensible. It makes sense to move to electronic issue where possible. However, I gently point out that some Members who are exercised by this electronic issue and are worried about access to hard copies are quite comfortable for people on benefits to be forced to move to online activity. We need to remember that there is a disparity in attitudes.

I agree with much of what the right hon. Member for Chesham and Amersham (Mrs Gillan) said, especially with regard to consultation. People must be able to interact with experts—experts with an understanding of the documents should be able to explain them to people in an impartial way and guide them through the maps. Some people have difficulty reading both hard-copy and online maps, so it is very important that they can access the information and understand it. The Government must ensure that, with any consultation, people are able fully to understand the information.

Can the Deputy Leader of the House tell me whether any savings have been identified through this measure? It seems sensible that there should be savings, as we will not be issuing reams of paper. Equally, that is balanced out with a rather generous offer of giving out IT equipment. Has any assessment been made of how much IT equipment will need to be dispersed?