Wales: Further Devolution

Baroness Anderson of Stoke-on-Trent Excerpts

Tuesday 25th November 2025 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Smith of Llanfaes]

To ask His Majesty’s Government what plans they have to devolve further powers to Wales, and what is the timeline for these plans.

[Baroness in Waiting/Government Whip (Baroness Anderson of Stoke-on-Trent) (Lab)]

The Government remain committed to the promises in our manifesto and are working to deliver them. For example, we have so far provided £10 million for the Welsh Government to deliver an economic inactivity trailblazer in Wales, as part of our wider commitment to devolve employment support funding to the Welsh Government. Through our Railways Bill, we are giving the Welsh Government a statutory role in the management of the rail network, building on our record investment in Welsh rail.

[Baroness Smith of Llanfaes (PC)]

I thank the Minister for her Answer. Pursuing the devolution of policing is in Welsh Labour’s programme for government. Just last week, we heard a Statement in this House on the abolition of police and crime commissioners. In England, those powers will be transferred directly to elected mayors, where they exist. However, where those powers go in Wales is not clear. Does the Minister agree that this presents the perfect opportunity to deliver Welsh Labour’s commitment and devolve policing to Wales? If not, what is it about Welsh democracy that the UK Labour Government distrust?

[Baroness Anderson of Stoke-on-Trent (Lab)]

The noble Baroness will not be surprised at all to hear that I disagree with both her assessment and her request that we devolve policing to Wales. The announcement last week on PCCs was not about the devolution of policing. It related solely to the abolition of PCCs, a model that simply was not working. We will seek the views of all partners, including the Welsh Government, before deciding on the best form of local policing, governance and scrutiny in Wales.

[Lord Deben (Con)]

In opposition, the Labour Party was very clear about the unfairness of the way in which money was given to Wales under the Barnett formula. Why is it that it is still cheating Wales and giving it much less money than any other part of the United Kingdom?

[Baroness Anderson of Stoke-on-Trent (Lab)]

My Lords, I used to represent Stoke-on-Trent. The noble Lord will find that the Barnett formula ensures that the people of Wales receive 20% per capita more than my former constituents. The Welsh Government received a record-breaking settlement of £21 billion this financial year, which, because of the Barnett formula, is £4 billion more than it would otherwise have been. The Government are delivering for the people of Wales, financially and by supporting them through devolution in action.

[Baroness Humphreys (LD)]

My Lords, one key area of potential devolution is youth justice, where the Welsh Government have already been implementing policies to tackle the root causes of crime and break intergenerational cycles of crime, through early intervention and a compassionate approach to justice. I welcome the announcement by the Welsh Government that officials would work together with UK counterparts to explore, among other items, options for governance arrangements and the funding of youth justice services. When will this work be completed and when will we see true devolution of these services to Wales?

[Baroness Anderson of Stoke-on-Trent (Lab)]

As the noble Baroness outlined, the UK Government and the Welsh Government have agreed to work together to consider options for the governance and funding of youth justice services and for partnership arrangements on probation services. That work is currently under way, but I do not have a deadline for when they will come forward with their recommendations.

[Lord Wigley (PC)]

There is a strong possibility that, following next May’s elections, Plaid Cymru will be the largest single party in Senedd Cymru. Will the UK Government ensure that Plaid Cymru has access to civil servants dealing with devolved or potentially devolved portfolios, as is the practice for incoming Governments at Westminster?

[Baroness Anderson of Stoke-on-Trent (Lab)]

The noble Lord raises an interesting point. There are still six months until the elections, and I would expect to see another Labour Administration elected next year. We will be working hard to deliver, as we do every day for the people of Wales and for the people of the United Kingdom. With regard to the substance of his point, that is the first time that it has been raised with me. I will speak to officials, and I would ask him to come forward if there are any problems or challenges.

[Lord Hunt of Kings Heath (Lab)]

Does my noble friend agree that testimony to the working relationship between the UK Government and Wales is the decision about the SMR development at Wylfa, which is welcome and which I earnestly hope will add to the growth potential of the Welsh economy?

[Baroness Anderson of Stoke-on-Trent (Lab)]

Many Members of your Lordships’ House were delighted to see the Prime Minister with the First Minister in Wylfa earlier this month announcing investment of £2.5 billion, which will create 3,000 jobs. It is a true recognition of our faith in, and the ability of, the Welsh economy, and it will drive growth for the Welsh economy.

[The Earl of Effingham (Con)]

My Lords, ambulance delays in Wales have increased fourfold over the past seven years, and PISA scores are lower than the OECD average in reading, science and maths. With all due respect to the Welsh Administration, does the Minister believe that further powers should be devolved to Wales if it is currently struggling to manage its own healthcare and education systems?

[Baroness Anderson of Stoke-on-Trent (Lab)]

My Lords, for 14 years, the party opposite cut funding to the people of Wales. We have increased the funding settlement for Wales, to ensure that the Welsh Government can deliver public services. With respect to the NHS, which the noble Earl raised, that has meant that the waiting list fell in the last month that was counted, and continues to fall month on month. We are delivering for the people of Wales. NHS England and NHS Wales are sharing best practice, we are doing public sector reform and, most importantly, we are giving them money that the noble Lord’s party did not, to get on with the job.

[Lord Anderson of Swansea (Lab)]

My Lords, if the Government accept that devolution is a process, what further steps do they envisage before the end of this Parliament?

[Baroness Anderson of Stoke-on-Trent (Lab)]

My Lords, I thank my noble friend. We are seeing devolution in action. It was this party that introduced the legislation to bring forward devolution, which has led to the Welsh Senedd. As for current conversations and discussions about further devolution, as I said earlier, we are working closely with the Wales Office, the DWP and the Welsh Government to deliver more on the devolution of employment support, with the £10 million trailblazer. We are working with youth justice and probation services, as I said earlier, to consider options for moving forward.

[Lord Roberts of Llandudno (LD)]

My Lords, may I remind the Minister that, of the four nations of the United Kingdom, child poverty in Wales is consistently the highest? Is the Minister ready to think about this and, in any future arrangements, to recognise the situation for children in Wales and make it fairer?

[Baroness Anderson of Stoke-on-Trent (Lab)]

My Lords, I am a member of the Labour Party because of our ongoing commitment to try to tackle child poverty. The child poverty strategy will be coming forward in due course. We will continue to work with the Welsh Government to ensure that every child has the opportunities they deserve.

[Baroness Ritchie of Downpatrick (Lab)]

My Lords, as part of the devolution settlement, the Northern Ireland Executive already have revenue-raising powers. Will my noble friend the Minister tell us what position the Government would adopt if the Northern Ireland Executive were to seek new, additional fiscal powers in order to deliver for the people of Northern Ireland in the areas of health, education and infrastructure?

[Baroness Anderson of Stoke-on-Trent (Lab)]

I thank my noble friend for her question. She is very aware that, under the recent spending review, Stormont was awarded £19.2 billion—its largest ever financial settlement. As for additional tax-raising mechanisms, they exist, if Stormont wishes to use them. That is a matter for Stormont. We would support it in whichever endeavours it wants to do to access the powers already available to it.

[Lord Patel (CB)]

My Lords, it is unusual for me to get up and support Wales, but in a recent debate about the manufacture of radio isotopes, I agreed that Wales had made a fantastic business case to have a nuclear reactor to produce radio isotopes—a facility that the United Kingdom does not possess. Therefore, patients in the UK suffer because we have to import all the radio isotopes needed for diagnosis and treatment. Will the Government support Wales and establish the nuclear reactor for the production of nuclear isotopes?

[Baroness Anderson of Stoke-on-Trent (Lab)]

This Government always support Wales—and I will be doing so this weekend when they are playing the Springboks. On the noble Lord’s specific point, last week I sat in on the debate that he mentioned, in which he raised some really interesting points that were answered by my noble friend. I will reflect on what he says and return to him on that.

[Lord West of Spithead (Lab)]

My Lords, I understand that one of our late and long-awaited frigates is to be called HMS “Cardiff”. Are we going to put any of the new factories producing defence equipment, and ammunition in particular, in Wales?

[Baroness Anderson of Stoke-on-Trent (Lab)]

My noble friend always manages to get a ship into his question. For that, as an honorary captain in the Royal Navy, I am very grateful. He is absolutely right about HMS “Cardiff”—I am still waiting for HMS “Stoke-on Trent”, but my lobbying has not yet been effective. We have seen, as we have wider conversations about the expanded defence industrial strategy, that some of that work will absolutely be going to Wales.