Commonwealth

Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon Excerpts

Thursday 30th June 2022 Lords Chamber

[The Minister of State, Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office (Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon) (Con)]

My Lords, first, I join noble Lords in genuinely and sincerely thanking—I say this from the bottom of my heart—my dear noble friend Lord Howell, who has been an incredible champion of the Commonwealth and remains so. I thank him for tabling this debate in such a timely fashion as we return from Kigali. I also thank him for his dedication to the Commonwealth, including as a Minister, as the honorary president of the APPG and through the various other Commonwealth organisations that he has led with great leadership and aplomb.

From the outset, let me say that I very much welcome this important debate. I recognise the important and valuable work of all the noble Lords who contributed, strengthening not just what the Commonwealth stands for but, through this debate, its importance to a progressive, forward-looking, open United Kingdom as we strengthen our relationships across the world.

The noble Lord, Lord Collins, talked about the 2018 CHOGM. I put on record my deep thanks to the many noble Lords who mentioned my old role and longevity in office; whenever that is mentioned, I wonder—because our debates are followed—who is listening, and where and when. As a Minister, one should always practise one important attribute: keep your bags packed. That is perhaps for another moment but I am really grateful for their kind words. Equally, in expressing those words, I understand noble Lords’ dedication and devotion to the Commonwealth in this respect.

The noble Lord, Lord Collins, mentioned each deliverable. After 2018, a specific spreadsheet on every single line of the communiqué was set up. It was included in the annexes and addenda; if the noble Lord will allow me, I will share and circulate them again. This was intended exactly so that we did not lose sight of them. I also worked directly with the Rwandans over our extended period of office to ensure the very continuity mentioned by the noble Lord and others, such as the noble Lord, Lord Purvis, from one CHOGM to the next. Yes, we had a slightly extended stay as chair-in-office, but we used that time to strengthen the deliverables for Rwanda, including on some of the Covid protocols at a time when the Commonwealth Heads of Government Meeting had to be postponed.

I will come on to the issue of leadership and the Secretary-General but I assure noble Lords that, during that time, notwithstanding the different perspectives that prevailed, I always took a view based on practicalities. We worked closely with the Secretary-General and the secretariat on the delivery and handover of the chair-in-office role.

I come to a point raised by the noble Baroness, Lady Flather, whom I thank for talking of me as part of the new generation. When you reach a certain age, that is a quite welcome remark. I have said before that the issues and history of India and Pakistan, and the wider subcontinent, are defined in my very being. As someone who has heritage and strong connections to both sides, I feel it is important that we look towards the future. In recognising the contribution of the noble Lord, Lord Hussain, I say to him that ultimately it must be for those countries to decide on, as we say in the Commonwealth, “a common future” which brings people together. There is so much between not only India and Pakistan but the 56 countries across the Commonwealth that ties us together. The issue of the English language, raised by the noble Lord, Lord McDonald, and others, remains central. I quote the Secretary-General, the noble and learned Baroness, Lady Scotland, on the importance of the English language in defining where the Commonwealth is and how it will remain.

At CHOGM in 2018 the noble Lord, Lord Parekh, mentioned the British Empire, the role of the Queen and history. I greatly respect the noble Lord and say to him that I have been Minister of State for the Commonwealth for five years. It has been a matter of great pride and honour to serve in that capacity, as well as in other areas, because the Commonwealth is about the here and now and the future. The fact that Rwanda, a country that does not have the history of the old empire, and other countries that have no history with what was the British Empire, wish to join, including one of the new members, is a sign of the vibrancy of the Commonwealth network of states.

At the start of CHOGM 2022, President Kagame said:

“The fact of holding this meeting in Rwanda, a new member with no historical connection to the British Empire, expresses our choice to continue re-imagining the Commonwealth, for a changing world.”


That underlines the perspective of many a Commonwealth country. I thank the right reverend Prelate the Bishop of Southwark and the noble Lord, Lord Bilimoria, for qualifying that the decision for the Prince of Wales to succeed Her Majesty the Queen was not that of one country, Britain, but came from the consensus of all members of the Commonwealth. I was there at CHOGM when these discussions took place, and it is right that the Commonwealth is defined by the important issue of consensus.

I have mentioned the Secretary-General, the secretariat and the member states. Equally I pay tribute to the noble Baroness, Lady D’Souza, for her incredible work within the Commonwealth network. She mentioned the CPA. It was lovely seeing Stephen Twigg there, though we did not get a chance to sit down. There were a few respective taps on the shoulder as we rushed from one meeting to the next, but I recognise fully the important role that the CPA and the CPA UK play in strengthening inclusive and accountable democracy across the Commonwealth. Other networks play an equally important role. The youth and women’s forums, the business forums and civil society forums were mentioned by noble Lords, including the noble Lord, Lord Collins, and my noble friend Lord Marland. Yes, they did feed back directly. I will come on to the important role of civil society, which is central.

We were represented in Kigali by my right honourable friend the Foreign Secretary, and the Prime Minister, as well as by me and the COP president, Alok Sharma. Returning, we reflected and talked of the four years but, more importantly, it was an opportunity to look to the future and foster a renewed sense of unity and purpose for the Commonwealth at a time of great change.

I am delighted that the noble Lord, Lord St John, mentioned the importance of digital. I will come on to some of the points that we discussed but, equally, in our report as chair-in-office, we focused on initiatives such as cybersecurity, to demonstrate the importance of the Commonwealth. What is the Commonwealth? If you are a small island developing state such as Vanuatu, you will not have the capacity and technical expertise to deliver. That is what the Commonwealth delivers, in bringing people together.

It is about the future. It is not a legacy of the British Empire of old. The vibrancy of discussions demonstrates that, as well as the issues that we discussed. Climate change is becoming increasingly important for small and less-developed states. Of course, Covid-19 remains very much alive and part of us in terms of its impact on us all. Therefore, even notwithstanding the Covid lockdowns, the Commonwealth family acted together on these important issues, including in a statement. As the noble Lord, Lord Bilimoria, highlighted, from academia to private sector engagement and manufacturing, it saw us and India come forward with an important and lasting partnership, tied together by the fact of the Commonwealth’s advantage. There was the ability of companies within those two different countries to be tied together by the common contractual nature of green contracts and common languages. That has also resulted in benefit not just to India’s manufacturing but to inward investment in the United Kingdom and a lasting partnership.

The Commonwealth family makes up a third of the world’s population and 30% of the votes of the United Nations. The United Kingdom over the past four years has had a role in strengthening the voice of the Commonwealth within the context of the United Nations. Perhaps I may share a personal note, since the noble and learned Baroness, Lady Scotland, was mentioned. Prior to the closed session, where the Secretary-General issue was taken, the United Kingdom did not hold back. During an earlier session when I attended the last meeting of CMAG, the governing council, I made specific announcements on the United Kingdom’s continued support for the Commonwealth Small States Office in Geneva, which is carrying out important work on human rights issues. I therefore hope that I have given a practical perspective; while different perspectives or differences may arise, in terms of practicality, the United Kingdom has always sought to, and will continue to, engage directly and constructively with the secretariat on all aspects of the Commonwealth institutions.

The CHOGM 2022 programme was also varied. My noble friend Lord Howell rightly highlighted the importance of our global soft power, as the Commonwealth network was very much in play. As Minister for the Commonwealth, I had direct bilateral meetings. The noble Earl, Lord Sandwich, mentioned human rights issues but it is not always a question of collective discussions. The Commonwealth is also defined by opportunities for world leaders, Ministers and others to come together sometimes to discuss some of the more sensitive issues around human rights—at times candidly, constructively but also privately. The Commonwealth network also provides for such discussions to be undertaken.

I personally represented the United Kingdom in a number of ministerial meetings, negotiating on key issues. A point was made by the noble Lord, Lord Purvis, about the language on Russia and Ukraine, as well as on climate. I assure the noble Lord that I sat through the Foreign Ministers’ meeting and while there were differences of views and opinion, the Commonwealth is defined by consensus. The agreement in the communiqué that the noble Lord, Lord McDonald, rightly highlighted, ran to several pages. While it was perhaps not reflective of what was achieved under his stewardship as PUS at the Foreign Office during our time, it was important that there was a leaders’ statement summarising some of the key issues. That reflects a learning and constructive carry-forward by Rwanda of something that we started in London back in 2018.

I also had the pleasure of being invited to the business forum, which was a grand affair; prior to that, I went to the exhibition of businesses. It was profound and on one of the biggest challenges, as my noble friend Lord Marland said. I pay tribute to his stewardship. We talk about longevity; he is another example of someone who has banged the drum of the Commonwealth Enterprise and Investment Council—and rightly so. It was an incredible event but I was taken by the businesses there, which were providing practical solutions to food security and climate issues. I say to the noble Lord, Lord St John, that many companies there, including British ones, were showing expertise in digital.

I also took part in the intergenerational dialogue about sport in the Commonwealth. I met the England goalkeeper David Seaman, among others, and the FIFA chairman. These events, as highlighted by my noble friend Lord Marland, brought together businesspeople, youth and sport. We look forward to the hospitality of the noble Lord, Lord Bilimoria, when we all go to Birmingham for the Games. Indeed, I am going there on Saturday; I will be attending meetings of the OSCE that are taking place there. I am very much looking forward to Birmingham hospitality.

On the leaders’ statement, the UK Government believe that the Commonwealth gets stronger as it grows. It is about encouraging other countries—

[The Lord Bishop of Southwark]

Will the Minister say anything about the question of persecution raised by the right reverend Prelate the Bishop of Guildford?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

I still have about seven minutes on the clock and will certainly get to that. Human rights are an important agenda item.

The interests of countries across the Commonwealth were also reflected, including—it literally says this in my notes—on freedom of religion or belief. These were discussed bilaterally. I assure my noble friend Lady Helic that human rights were discussed; I will come on to issues around the communiqué and the statements and commitments made in a moment.

There was a selection process for the secretary-general. There were two very capable candidates. Kamina Johnson Smith, the Foreign Minister of Jamaica, was very close in the ballot that took place. Nevertheless, I assure the noble Lord, Lord Collins, and all noble Lords, as the Prime Minister said, that we will work very constructively with the noble and learned Baroness, Lady Scotland, as we have done before. I have always said, even given the differing perspectives we have—I note the comments of all noble Lords—that her advocacy of the Commonwealth, what it stands for and its values, is well respected by many across it.

On announcements and delivery, I thank my noble friend Lord Goodlad for his touching remarks about my time as Minister. He also knows Australia well. The noble Lord, Lord McDonald, mentioned an Australian Minister for the Republic asking whether there would be a time when the monarch of the United Kingdom holds an Australian passport. I have to give full disclosure as Minister of State for the Commonwealth: Lady Ahmad of Wimbledon actually holds an Australian passport, having grown up in Australia. That reflects the vibrancy of the Commonwealth.

The United Kingdom made a series of announcements on five new virtual centres of expertise. I will provide the details to the noble Lord, Lord St John. They reflect digital and our platinum partnerships initiative in support of economic growth. We also announced the launch of the UK’s developing countries trading scheme, with simpler and more generous trading arrangements, including for 18 Commonwealth members.

The noble Lord, Lord McDonald, talked about the identity agenda and realms, some of which I have already touched on. As far as the realms are concerned, we have addressed Barbados and Jamaica, and this is important. I pay tribute to Her Majesty the Queen and His Royal Highness the Prince of Wales for the leadership they have shown and the full warmth they have demonstrated in our engagement with those countries, as they seek to show change in their overall progress towards becoming republics. As India has notably shown, this does not change the warmth, affection and strength of the Commonwealth family.

On trade, we showcased investment with Commonwealth partners. As my noble friend Lord Marland reminded us, the Commonwealth advantage knocks 21% off the cost of trade. UK trade with the Commonwealth was worth over £120 billion last year alone and we have made progress: we have signed free trade economic partnerships with many Commonwealth countries and secured free trade agreements with 33 Commonwealth countries, including EPAs covering 27 African, Caribbean and Pacific countries. This is notwithstanding the challenges we faced with Covid and the limitations that imposed on us.

The noble Lord, Lord Bilimoria, mentioned the FTA. The second round of negotiations concluded on 17 March and the third round will begin shortly. During his visit to India, my right honourable friend the Prime Minister and Prime Minister Modi set a recognised challenge to everyone to achieve this by Diwali.

There was also a British International Investment announcement at CHOGM 2022. Through BII, we will provide £162 million of capital investment to the hydropower sector in Africa, to note one example. A number of other announcements were also made on that front.

My noble friends Lord Howell and Lady Helic talked about Chinese influence on the Commonwealth. The UK has invested £30 billion in FDI and bilateral ODA in Commonwealth countries and we are working with key partners across the Commonwealth to provide a structured and managed alternative to the reliance on China.

Turning, in response to the right reverend Prelate the Bishop of Guildford, to the important issue of human rights, the communiqué noted that freedom of religion or belief is a cornerstone of democratic society. Indeed, the human rights language in the communiqué from CHOGM 2022 further reiterated the Commonwealth’s commitment to human rights enshrined in international instruments, underscored the vital role of a vibrant civil society, including human rights defenders, in protecting democracy and urged good co-operation between member countries and their respective national human rights institutions; and there is more specific to that.

LGBT rights were raised by a number of noble Lords, including the noble Lords, Lord Purvis and Lord Collins. Since 2018, the United Kingdom has invested more than £11 million in programmes to support the promotion and protection of LGBT rights across the Commonwealth. We continue to work with Commonwealth Governments and civil society partners. There are challenges. Some countries have moved forward, some have stayed still and some have moved backwards: that is a candid assessment of where we are. At CHOGM my right honourable friend the Prime Minister announced a further package of investment worth more than £2.7 million to continue to promote and protect the rights of LGBT+ people across the Commonwealth. I will share full details of our human rights perspectives with all noble Lords.

Progress has been made on human rights, and I hope my noble friend Lady Helic, the noble Earl, Lord Sandwich, and the noble Lords, Lord Collins and Lord Purvis, recognise this. We are building on progress together, as a constructive partner and friend to Rwanda, during our term in office. There are girls’ education programmes worth more than £200 million. I have mentioned the LGBT communication, and we working with India, for example, on a new joint UK-India diplomatic training programme for Commonwealth members.

In the limited time I have had, I hope I have been able to give noble Lords a flavour of what has been achieved, what was discussed and what continues to be delivered, and of our continued commitment to the incredible institution—the network of families—that is the Commonwealth. There are undoubtedly differences on issues between member states, but the Commonwealth provides an opportunity to come together, for civil society to talk directly to Ministers, for specific feedback to be given and for interactions to take place. We are truly delighted to be hosting the Commonwealth Games in Birmingham next month. We look forward to welcoming our Commonwealth friends and family to the UK.

As we reflect on our four years in office, it is not customary, but I think I should do this. I pay tribute to the incredible team we have had at the FCO/FCDO leading on this: Philip Parham, who was the Commonwealth envoy, and Jo Lomas, who is sitting over there in the Box, together with Sarah Lingard. What can I say? They were incredible officials and a great source of support during the Commonwealth meeting, along with Harriet Mathews, our director-general, and Laura Hickey, who did amazing work on various aspects of the communiqué. Popping his head over the Box is my ever-resilient, ever-working private secretary Alex Fanshawe, together with Nick Catsaras, who is the Foreign Secretary’s private secretary. They are unsung heroes. Too often I get the credit for the work they do, and it is about time that they are also named for the record—

[Lord McDonald of Salford (CB)]

Hear, hear!

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

So I hope noble Lords will excuse me for doing so. It is great to hear the longest, loudest “hear, hear” from the former PUS at the FCO, who did incredible work in strengthening our time as chair-in-office.

To all noble Lords in all parts of your Lordships’ House, and to the right reverend Prelates who bring into focus the moral compass of the responsibility we have—I pay tribute to the right reverend Prelates the Bishop of Southwark and the Bishop of Guildford, who have taken part today, for their direct accountability —I say that it is right that the Government are held to account. We look forward to your contribution to the four events later this week. I assure the House that we remain committed to the Commonwealth and wish to play our part as a partner in the Commonwealth.

Finally, the Commonwealth is about the here and now, but it is also, importantly, about the future and how we continue to strengthen economic resilience and security; to step up action on climate change; to become a force for good in standing up for human rights for all and for freedom of religion for those who are oppressed; and for the LGBT community, women’s rights, girls’ education and the Commonwealth family. There are differing perspectives and different periods of travel, and different pathways may be taken; but most importantly, as a network, it allows us, as a Commonwealth family of 56 countries, to come together for that common vision and common future.

South Africa: Just Energy Transition Partnership

Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon Excerpts

Thursday 30th June 2022 Lords Chamber

[Lord Oates (LD)]

My Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question standing in my name on the Order Paper and, in doing so, declare my interest as co-chair of the All-Party Parliamentary Group for South Africa.

[The Minister of State, Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office (Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon) (Con)]

My Lords, South Africa and the International Partners Group—the IPG—chaired by the United Kingdom, have focused on establishing new structures to underpin the long-term partnership. These are now in place, as set out in the recent update to leaders, and work is under way to develop a South Africa-led investment plan ahead of COP 27. The COP president, my right honourable friend Alok Sharma MP, visited South Africa earlier this month to meet Ministers, the head of the Presidential Finance Task Team, the Presidential Climate Commission, Eskom and the groups from the mining community to underline our commitment to delivering this ground-breaking partnership.

[Lord Oates (LD)]

I thank the Minister for his reply. Does he agree that the partnership is not only critical for South Africa’s energy transition but, if successful, it would have huge significance as a model throughout the world—provided, of course, that it provides finance to emerging economies such as South Africa on sufficiently advantageous terms? Does he also agree that UK and South African parliamentarians could play a constructive role in supporting the transition and ensuring that the necessary measures are implemented expeditiously? Would he therefore be willing to meet members of the South Africa APPG to discuss how to take this forward?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, I say to the noble Lord: yes, yes and yes.

[Lord Bellingham (Con)]

My Lords, given that the UK and the other four participants have committed to providing a staggering $8.5 billion, part of which will be used to mobilise the private sector, does the Minister agree with me that it is vital that innovative UK firms play a part in this? What is UK Trade & Investment going to do to assist those firms?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, as I said to the noble Lord, Lord Oates, I agree, and we are very much at one. Perhaps I did a slight injustice in the brevity of my Answer to the noble Lord, Lord Oates: I pay tribute to his excellent work in re-establishing the APPG.

On my noble friend’s question, the United Kingdom has given a specific commitment to the partnership: of the overall initial $8.5 billion of public capital, the United Kingdom is providing $1.8 billion. We will be looking to see how we can leverage further financing in providing the terms needed to make that crucial energy shift from coal to more sustainable sources.

[Lord Collins of Highbury (Lab)]

My Lords, of course it is an excellent model and one to be followed, but lessons need to be learned so that it can be applied to other developing countries. Moving from 90% reliance on coal is a huge task, but other countries need to make the same sort of transition. One of the organisations the UK Government commit to is British International Investment—the old CDC. How will the lessons learned from this programme be adopted by British International Investment in terms of the transition programmes it operates?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, I agree with the noble Lord. I will be open with noble Lords: when you sit down directly with many countries across the developing world, as I did at CHOGM last week, there can be quite challenging discussions at times over the issue of transition, particularly in light of the current global crisis and what we are seeing on energy prices from Ukraine and, indeed, on food prices. That said, I can assure the noble Lord, Lord Collins, that British International Investment, the UK development financial institution, is very much a part of this £1.8 billion commitment. In terms of lessons learned, I think the speed with which these structures can be set up is a direct learning but, equally, we need to ensure local buy-in. This is not about a country such as the United Kingdom prescribing a solution; it must come from within.

[Lord St John of Bletso (CB)]

My Lords, does the Minister agree that at a time when South Africa is facing one of the worst energy supply crises, with stage 6 load shedding, initiatives such as this partnership are to be welcomed but that action also needs to be taken to curb corruption and mismanagement at Eskom, the monopoly electricity supplier in the country?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

I agree with the noble Lord. My right honourable friend the Prime Minister met President Ramaphosa in the margins of the G7 meeting this week. He mentioned Eskom specifically. Eskom’s ambition is to facilitate and be part of this accelerated decommissioning. We are fully aware of Eskom’s record and the sustainability issues surrounding its existing debt. I assure noble Lords that these are being dealt with in a very practical manner.

[Baroness Walmsley (LD)]

My Lords, given the time it takes to set up the enabling projects, et cetera, required to achieve the objectives of this scheme, are the Government talking to partners and other appropriate third-world countries and having early discussions about how such partnerships can be set up as soon as possible, or are they waiting for COP 27?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, I assure noble Lords that we are doing exactly as the noble Baroness suggests. We are talking to other partners and I pay particular tribute to the current COP president, Alok Sharma, who has championed this issue. In recent weeks, I have also had the opportunity to visit Egypt as part of my portfolio. The discussions with Foreign Minister Shoukry, the president of COP 27, centred around how we can take our learning and experience, including new, innovative structures, to make sure that they can be practically applied in Egypt as well.

[Lord Lilley (Con)]

My Lords, my pre-parliamentary career was working in developing countries on aid and development programmes and my African friends have driven home to me that the precondition of economic growth in Africa is not aid or trade, welcome as they are—and, still less, patronising advice from the West—but cheap and reliable electricity. Again and again they say that. If they have the opportunity of investing in renewables, and it is cheapest when backed up with other electricity from hydro or fossil fuels to provide reliability when the sun does not shine or the wind does not blow, they will choose it without any advice from us. Is it not hypocritical and damaging of us to cut off finance for them if they want cheaper, fossil-based electricity?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, again, my noble friend speaks with great insight and expertise, and I agree in the sense that this should not be in any way prescriptive. It should not mean the developed world preaching to the developing parts of the world. As I said earlier, it is about localised buy-in and real management and ownership of this transition by the country we are dealing with. Every transition is difficult, particularly in developing parts of the world. Of course, the ultimate case is to keep the lights on and ensure that the energy required across a given country is provided.

[Baroness Hayman (CB)]

My Lords, I declare my interests as set out in the register. Does the Minister agree that, as part of a just transition, it is really important that, rather than lecturing developing countries, there is the finance and support to wean them off coal in particular? Will he make it a priority for the Government at COP 27 to look at how we can help the decommissioning of existing coal in those countries, especially when in Asia the age of coal mines is around 11 years, whereas their usual lifespan is around three or four times that?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, again, the noble Baroness raises an important point. I say to her that in this framework the “J” is “just”. That is something we recognise and it should do what it says on the tin. I also agree with the noble Baroness about ensuring that proper structured finance is provided in this transition and that as the transition takes place it is systematic, structured and fully supported. What we have seen is that over time experience lends itself to our learnings on this issue. On a broader issue, I recently travelled through north Africa and there is huge potential there when it comes to self-sufficiency in energy and renewables and in food security. Part of our role when it comes to supporting countries as an enabler, including use of ODA, should not be in terms of a handout but a hand up, in ensuring that countries become self-sufficient in the transition to renewables as well as in terms of food security.

[Lord Foulkes of Cumnock (Lab Co-op)]

My Lords, I never cease to admire the wide range of topics that the Minister deals with. Would even he not admit that the whole issue of development would be better dealt with if we returned to a separate international development department and a spokesperson for that department in this House?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, I think I have answered seven or eight questions and I was going to be in the unusual position of leaving your Lordships’ Chamber having said that I agreed with every noble Lord who had spoken to the Question. Unfortunately, I will not be able to say that. I do agree with the noble Lord about the importance of the development budget. I have made it no secret. I think the importance of 0.7% is as an enabler, for the reasons I set out in my answer to the previous question. However, as someone who has been a stand-alone Minister in the FCO, then a double-hatted Minister across DfID and the FCO, I believe—and it is not because I had to walk down Whitehall twice a day, which was actually doing my health a great deal of good—that consolidating the two departments into one allows us to talk with strength on diplomacy and development when we are on the world stage. I would welcome an opportunity to share a cup of tea with the noble Lord to explain why I believe in the merits of the combined department.

Women’s Rights to Reproductive Healthcare: United States

Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon Excerpts

Tuesday 28th June 2022 Lords Chamber

[The Minister of State, Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office (Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon) (Con)]

My Lords, with the leave of the House, I shall now repeat an Answer to an Urgent Question in the other place given by my right honourable friend the Minister for Asia and the Middle East. The response is as follows:

“Access to abortion services in the United States is a matter for the US Supreme Court and for authorities in individual states. The US Supreme Court opinion of 24 June in the case of Dobbs v Jackson Women’s Health Organization does not make abortion illegal across America. Rather, it removes federal protection for abortions, hence allowing individual states to determine their own laws. Thirteen states have so-called ‘trigger laws’ that will automatically outlaw abortion; seven of these are already active. In total, we understand that 26 states are likely to ban or restrict abortion or have bans that predate Roe still technically on the books.

As the Prime Minister has said, this is not our court—it is another jurisdiction—but this is a big step backwards. I share his view. The United Kingdom’s position is that women and girls in the UK should have the right to access essential health services, including those relating to sexual and reproductive health, which includes safe abortion care. More broadly, the United Kingdom’s approach is to support sexual and reproductive health and rights, including safe abortion for women and girls around the world.”

[Lord Collins of Highbury (Lab)]

I thank the Minister for repeating that response. In the other place, Amanda Milling highlighted the priority given to women and girls in the international development strategy, including the right to sexual and reproductive health. The judgment, as the Minister rightly says, is a matter for the US jurisdiction, but it will no doubt give oxygen to the evangelical right across all continents. So positive words will not be enough to protect a woman’s right to choose. Can the Minister highlight what we will do to support women, particularly civil society groups and other women’s groups, to ensure that their human right to choose abortion if they need it is protected? What will we do to support them?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, I am sure the noble Lord acknowledges that, over many years, the United Kingdom has taken a strong and principled position on this. Indeed, the noble Lord and I have had exchanges on this matter, and I am sure he recalls when challenges were posed in the United Nations Security Council, when a resolution was passed on conflict-related sexual violence with an omission on sexual and reproductive health. At that time—I was there—we used the explanation of vote as an opportunity to, once again, restate the very rights articulated by the noble Lord.

I do not think there is a difference of perspective here between the Government and Her Majesty’s Opposition, and it is important that we stand up for the right for women to have access in this way. As I have said before, what is happening in the United States is a matter for the United States, but the United Kingdom will retain its strong and principled stand in this respect.

[Baroness Barker (LD)]

My Lords, the United States and the United Kingdom are recognised as global leaders in maternal healthcare and fully inclusive reproductive rights. Last year, the Government cut their pledge to the UN Population Fund by 85%. Given that an incoming US Government might reinstate a global gag at any time, could this Government pledge to reinstate some of that funding?

Secondly, could we strike a completely different note—one that sympathises with, rather than criminalises, women in desperate need of fully inclusive reproductive healthcare—and decriminalise abortion in this country?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, the noble Baroness’s final point is of course very much a matter of discussion. Various initiatives and discussions are currently under way to ensure, as I have stated before, the ability of every woman who so chooses to have rights and access to such facilities. The noble Baroness rightly raised the issue of access to the UN initiative in this regard. I can confirm that we have already allocated £60 million. When my right honourable friend the current Foreign Secretary took over office, the reduced funding on women and girls was restored.

[Baroness O'Loan (CB)]

My Lords, does the Minister not agree that it would be both illogical and embarrassing for the United Kingdom to make representations to the US on this issue? The US Supreme Court has simply returned the issue of the provision of abortion services to each state, leaving the decision in the hands of the democratically elected representatives of the people of each state. Is the Minister aware that there is no human right to abortion under either the Universal Declaration of Human Rights or the European Convention on Human Rights, despite the regular but erroneous assertions that such a right exists? Is he also aware that the unborn child’s right to life is protected under the Convention on the Rights of the Child, to which we are a signatory?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, I assure the noble Baroness that I am aware of all the respective conventions. We have articulated the clear position that this is a matter for the United States, but equally I respect—as we are seeing today—that people will have different perspectives, insights and principled views on abortion. My right honourable friend the Prime Minister has articulated where we are currently. I think that many across your Lordships’ House and the other place share his view but, equally, respect that others may have a different perspective.

[Baroness Armstrong of Hill Top (Lab)]

My Lords, I thank the Minister for repeating the Answer. I am sure that, having visited a whole range of countries across the world, he knows how important the work on reproductive rights with young women and girls is. I have been involved in working with young people from this country volunteering abroad with young people from their host country, doing some significant work. There is a real challenge now: because of the reduction in aid from this country, much of that work in some countries is now stopping. It is educational work around the health of women. Most of the young women I met never got to the abortion stage; they were working at a much earlier stage on their reproductive rights and sexual education. Will the Government have another look to make sure that our work and our reputation on this are not further undermined and can be restored at least to the levels at which they used to be?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, I believe I have already stated that my right honourable friend the Foreign Secretary has prioritised spending on women and girls, including on sexual and reproductive rights. Indeed, it is an area we have focused on for a number for years. The majority of our SRHR programming focuses on increasing and improving voluntary planning information supplies and services. In 2019-20, the UK supported 25.4 million women and girls to use modern methods of contraception, including the sharing of information. With all these efforts, it is important that we continue to work and remain focused on what we seek to do. I fully recognise the important efforts and the work of the noble Baroness in this respect.

[Baroness Hoey (Non-Afl)]

My Lords, just as the United Kingdom allows every part of the United Kingdom to make its decisions on abortion, surely the Minister must agree that the United States, a democracy, must be allowed to have its individual states, whatever we think of the issue. Does he agree with me that, just as many of us got quite annoyed at the United States interfering in our decisions over something such as the protocol, we should keep well out of this and Her Majesty’s Government should not get involved in the internal affairs of the United States?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

The point made by the noble Baroness is exactly what I have articulated: we have made it clear that this is very much an issue for the United States. Of course, each state has its own elected representatives. It is for the people of those states to choose their democratically elected representatives.

[Lord Cormack (Con)]

My Lords, I am glad my noble friend has reiterated that point; it is an important one. There are many Christians in this country who are very troubled about the whole subject of abortion, and that should be borne in mind as well.

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, I recognise what my noble friend has said. Any democratic country—any open society—gives everyone the right to express their view. What demonstrates the strength of our own country is that, while you might not respect a particular view, you respect and defend the right of someone to hold an opinion contrary to your own. We are a diverse, rich country in all sorts of aspects, including our faith diversity. We also recognise that America is a shining light and the closest ally of the United Kingdom. There is much that we share on strengthening democracy and human rights around the world; that will remain a strong sense in our focus globally as well.

[Lord Judge (CB)]

Is not the lesson for this country from that decision that there should be absolutely no political involvement in the appointment of senior judges?

[Noble Lords]

Hear, hear!

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

The noble and learned Lord has expressed that view very clearly.

[The Earl of Sandwich (CB)]

As the Minister has just come back from the Commonwealth conference, can he say a word about Africa and whether he thinks some of those states will be backtracking on this?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, one important thing about networks such as the Commonwealth is that they allow us to look at a broad range of human rights issues in a progressive and productive way. As the United Kingdom’s Human Rights Minister, the guiding principles that I apply in discussions are, first, to be constructive and, secondly, to recognise that many countries across the world, including those within the Commonwealth, are on a journey, specifically in relation to human rights; that may be on media freedom, religious freedom, LGBT rights or, indeed, women and girls.

I look back on our own history and see that we as a country travelled on this very path, sometimes with great difficulty and challenges, but we overcame them—through the strength of our democracy, the rights of representation, and an open but independent judiciary. These are experiences from our journey that we share across the world, and the principles that we involve and engage with in our discussions with our Commonwealth partners.

Aiden Aslin and Shaun Pinner

Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon Excerpts

Tuesday 28th June 2022 Lords Chamber

[The Lord Bishop of St Albans]

To ask Her Majesty’s Government what representations they have made to the government of Russia and the unrecognised Donetsk People’s Republic (DPR) on behalf of British nationals Aiden Aslin and Shaun Pinner, following their death sentence by a court in the DPR.

[The Minister of State, Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office (Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon)]

My Lords, Her Majesty’s Government condemn the sentencing of two British nationals, Aiden Aslin and Shaun Pinner, held by Russian proxies in eastern Ukraine. Both are soldiers in the Ukrainian armed forces and therefore prisoners of war entitled to protection under international humanitarian law. The so-called trial in the non-government controlled area of Ukraine has no legitimacy, and the United Kingdom is fully supportive of the Government of Ukraine in their efforts to get them released.

[The Lord Bishop of St Albans]

My Lords, what discussions are taking place with our European and American partners to say to Russia that, if these executions go ahead, there will be serious repercussions? What guidance has been given to the estimated 3,000 UK nationals who are now fighting, many of whom have not joined the official army and therefore do not come under the Geneva convention, who are putting themselves at huge risk should they be caught?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, on the right reverend Prelate’s second point, the advice from the British Government has been very clear: do not travel to Ukraine. As for our work with allies and partners, first and foremost we are working very constructively with Ukraine. The detainees are part and parcel of the engagement the Ukrainians are having with the Russians directly and we are very supportive of those efforts—a point well made by my right honourable friend in her call with the Ukrainian Prime Minister this morning.

[Lord Purvis of Tweed (LD)]

My Lords, I understand that the Government will not recognise these courts, because we do not recognise these territories, but I also understand that the defence team of the British nationals has deferred lodging a defence because they believe that UK ministerial intervention will be successful. Their deadline for this is 8 July. I understand that the Government are in a sensitive position; they have already made representations to Moscow, but has consideration been given to a humanitarian envoy who can give direct support to these individuals to ensure that they have the equivalent of personal consular support, even though that is not possible because of our lack of recognition of these regions?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, I hear what the noble Lord says. Of course, he is right to articulate that we have been making representations, including directly with the Russian authorities. We do not recognise the de facto authorities in occupied parts of Ukraine, and I think that is the right approach. I assure him of our good offices in every element of ensuring the rights of all the detainees who are currently being detained by Russia and strengthening the hand of Ukraine in their representation.

[Lord Browne of Ladyton (Lab)]

My Lords, in the case of Aiden Aslin, on 18 April, Graham Phillips, a former British civil servant and pro-Russian propagandist, published a video interview with him—a prisoner of war, in handcuffs, physically injured and manifestly under duress—and extracted from him an admission, in those conditions, that he was not a Ukrainian soldier but had a different relationship with the war. Experts who have studied this video and its circumstances say there is sufficient evidence there to support the view that this was a breach of the Geneva conventions on the treatment of prisoners of war, and that Phillips, a British citizen, is at risk of prosecution for war crimes. As he is a British citizen, ought we not to be further investigating this to see whether he has indeed violated international law, and issuing a warrant for his arrest?

--- Later in debate ---

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, as the noble Lord will be aware, prisoners of war cannot be prosecuted for taking part in direct hostilities. The whole process is about their early release, and they must be released and repatriated without delay at the end of hostilities, if not before. Certainly, that is the case we have been making. I can share with the noble Lord that, of course, these situations are extremely sensitive, but we need to remind Russia that it has an obligation to ensure it upholds the principles of IHL.

[Lord Hannay of Chiswick (CB)]

My Lords, can the Minister say what contact, if any, the Government have had with the Red Cross, whose role is very clearly defined in terms of the Geneva conventions and prisoners of war? It was very active in rescuing a lot of people from Mariupol and therefore has no problem about contact with these illegal authorities.

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, we are engaging directly with all agencies on the ground. The noble Lord mentions the Red Cross; of course, it has played an important role in reaching many communities within Ukraine, including those in the occupied areas, and we will continue to engage with it. But even an organisation such as the Red Cross is facing real challenges in this respect.

[Baroness Symons of Vernham Dean (Lab)]

My Lords, the Minister did not answer my noble friend’s question about Graham Phillips and whether the Government are undertaking any investigation to establish whether or not he has violated international law. He was asked a direct question. I would be grateful if he would answer it, please.

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

I am sure the noble Baroness will appreciate that I am not going to comment on the specifics, particularly in the sensitive situation which currently applies to the detainees. I can assure her that we are looking at all elements of their detention. It is important that those representations for their early release are made through Ukraine. That is the position of our Government, but I cannot go further than that.

[Lord Mackenzie of Framwellgate (Non-Afl)]

My Lords, does the Minister agree with me that the values displayed by the Russian Government in connection with this Question, and also with yesterday’s bombing at the shopping centre, display an indication that this is a conflict that we cannot allow Ukraine to lose?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

I agree with the noble Lord. That is why we have been absolutely at one—and I appreciate the position of Her Majesty’s Opposition in this regard—in staying strong in our position on helping Ukraine with humanitarian support, diplomatic efforts and economic reconstruction, as well as military support for the fight. This is a war Russia started. Russia should stop the war and stop it now.

[Lord Collins of Highbury (Lab)]

My Lords, the Foreign Secretary has promised to do whatever it takes to secure the release of these individuals. In addition to the Red Cross and other humanitarian organisations that have intervened in similar circumstances, there is of course the office of the Secretary-General of the United Nations, who has been quite effective in direct communications with Russia, particularly on humanitarian corridors. Can the Minister tell us whether the Foreign Secretary or the Prime Minister has been in contact with the Secretary-General to raise these cases?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, as the noble Lord will be aware, the Secretary-General himself has had to face many challenges in his direct engagement with Russia. Indeed, although he made a visit to Moscow, that was possible only after various representations were made. Russia was blocking his visit, and I am sure that many within the international multilateral framework are frustrated by the lack of engagement Russia has shown on a wide range of issues. What I can share with the noble Lord is that we are engaging with all partners, including the United Nations, at the very highest level across a range of issues, including those of detainees.

Commonwealth

Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon Excerpts

Tuesday 28th June 2022 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Anelay of St Johns]

To ask Her Majesty’s Government what assessment they have made of the progress made during their term as chair-in-office of the Commonwealth towards building a Commonwealth that is fairer, prosperous, more sustainable and more secure.

[The Minister of State, Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office (Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon) (Con)]

My Lords, over the last four years, the United Kingdom, as chair-in-office, has worked closely with our Commonwealth partners to pursue the shared priorities that leaders set out at CHOGM 2018 in London, with an investment of over £500 million in projects and programmes on girls’ education, trade, human rights and women’s economic empowerment. The UK’s assessment of its delivery of our chair-in-office priorities is outlined in two chair-in-office reports, the second of which was laid in both Houses in May this year.

[Baroness Anelay of St Johns (Con)]

My Lords, nearly a million girls in 11 Commonwealth countries do not have equal access to education. The UK’s most recent report as chair-in-office—the final report to which my noble friend referred—states that Rwanda is one of the 11 Commonwealth countries that marginalise girls. It is now the chair-in-office for the Commonwealth, so what commitment has it given to the UK that, as chair-in-office, the country will eliminate the marginalisation of girls in education?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, as my noble friend will be aware, the issue of girls’ education remains—and rightly so—a priority for Her Majesty’s Government and our Prime Minister. I can assure my noble friend that we have had a strong exchange of concerns and views with all members of our Commonwealth family over the importance of education, not least for girls across the now 56 countries of the Commonwealth. We will continue to pursue this objective, not just in our conversations with countries within the Commonwealth but beyond. Rwanda remains very much committed to the values of the Commonwealth family.

[Lord Collins of Highbury (Lab)]

My Lords, one of the priorities set by the London CHOGM was LGBT rights. I congratulate the Minister on his work to ensure that this continued throughout the chair-in-office period. What can he tell us about how this work will continue over the next two years? We must bear in mind —as he acknowledged to me yesterday—that LGBT rights are now under threat globally, and we need to ensure that we continue to act.

--- Later in debate ---

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, one of the areas we pursued during our time in chair-in-office was to strengthen the voice of civil society within the context of the Commonwealth. Although I was not able to share this with him yesterday, I can now report to the noble Lord that, in the civil society engagement we had, we had well over 10 Foreign Ministers engaging quite directly. There was a quite specific question on the issue of LGBT rights. While it does remain a challenge in a number of Commonwealth countries where backwards steps have been taken, it is also notable that certain countries—including, for example, the likes of Botswana—have taken forward steps on this important issue. We continue, as we have done during our time as chair-in-office, to fund human rights priorities, including those of LGBT rights. They were featured very prominently in the civil society discussions, and I am sure of the important role civil society organisations will play in ensuring that all countries of the Commonwealth will adhere to the values of this important principle, and not just during Rwanda’s chair-in-office.

[Lord Haselhurst (Con)]

My Lords, if we are to expect the Commonwealth to remain a strong and influential organisation far into the future—bearing in mind the high proportion of Commonwealth citizens who are aged under 25—would it not be sensible to encourage, perhaps through officers of the Commonwealth Parliamentary Association, the setting-up of a Commonwealth-wide youth organisation, just as has happened with both women, on the one hand, and small jurisdictions, on the other?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, again I agree with my noble friend. As he will be aware, within the Commonwealth context, there is the Commonwealth Youth Forum. Together with a number of other Ministers, including the Prime Minister of Canada and the President of Rwanda, I attended a meeting where the youth forum delegates were directly reporting back on the importance of their priorities. Of course, 60% of the Commonwealth is under 30— although I think that this House acts as a strong voice for the 40% who are not. Equally, we need to remain focused: the youth forum plays a central role in the thinking on this, and will be feeding not just to the chair- in-office but to the member states as well. In addition, the role of the CPA is well recognised.

[The Lord Bishop of Guildford]

My Lords, as the Minister knows extremely well, this week marks a brief lull between the Commonwealth Heads of Government Meeting in Rwanda last week and the International Ministerial Conference on Freedom of Religion or Belief in London next week. Given the overlap between those two conferences, what progress has been made on this basic human right, not least given that three of the Commonwealth nations—India, Pakistan and Nigeria—are among the worst when it comes to protecting the rights, and even the lives, of Christians and those of other faiths and beliefs?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

The right reverend Prelate raises an important issue. It seems to be a continuum. As someone who is overseeing the FoRB conference as well, I was wondering whether the “Minister for Conferences” is being added to my portfolio. Nevertheless, it is an important area which is of focus to Her Majesty’s Government. I am working very closely with Fiona Bruce on the delivery of next week’s conference, at which over 30 countries will be in attendance. On the countries the right reverend Prelate referred to, I would also note that there are many where there are distinct constitutional protections for all communities and faiths. It is important that all countries of the Commonwealth stand up for the rights of the faiths and beliefs of all.

[Baroness Smith of Newnham (LD)]

My Lords, at last week’s CHOGM, the communiqué read that the

“Heads emphasised the commitment in the Commonwealth Charter, to international peace and security, and to an effective multilateral system based on international law.”

What have Her Majesty’s Government, as chair-in-office, and the Prime Minister, in particular, done to talk to other heads of Commonwealth Governments to try to persuade them of the importance of supporting Ukraine and the British position on Ukraine, rather than seeing Prime Minister Modi alongside President Putin and President Xi?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, the importance of Ukraine—indeed the next Question I will be answering is on that very subject—was a discussion that did not meet with total agreement. I sat through and indeed represented the United Kingdom at the Foreign Ministers’ meeting. Nevertheless, I think we worked very constructively with all partners to ensure that the language on Ukraine was not just sustained but also recognised by all members of the Commonwealth. Our advocacy and that of other partners is important. The Ukraine conflict is far from over as we saw through the attacks only yesterday.

[Lord McDonald of Salford (CB)]

My Lords, the narrowness of the re-election of the noble and learned Baroness, Lady Scotland, as Secretary-General of the Commonwealth is almost as well known as the strength of Her Majesty’s Government’s opposition to that re-election. Will the Minister please say whether the Government think that the noble and learned Baroness has a mandate for her remaining time in office, and what will his relationship be with her for the remaining two years she has in office?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, I am sure the Secretary-General of the Commonwealth will share my view that we enjoy a very strong, constructive relationship. That is important to take the Commonwealth forward.

[Lord Howell of Guildford (Con)]

My Lords, I must say that I welcome this, despite one or two difficulties that we have just touched on. I think an orderly transfer of the Secretary-Generalship in two years’ time is a very sensible thing. I also welcome quite a lot of achievement at Kigali. Two new members joined and there were many other successes, thanks not least to my noble friend the Minister sitting here and, on the commercial side, to my noble friend Lord Marland. Looking into the future, did my noble friend see any talk of the increasing Chinese involvement in island state after island state, coastal state after coastal state in Africa in a systematic advance not in just commercial matters but in military and officer training matters as well? Will he tell his expert planners in the Foreign Office that this is a real challenge to Britain’s security, as well as world security, and it needs a good deal more attention than it has had so far?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

Again, I agree with my noble friend in his expert analysis and the wise counsel he offers to the FCDO. It is important that we remain vigilant. Indeed, it is not just across Africa, when we see the recent engagement of China across the Pacific and particularly on specific islands. That is why we are, through the announcement of British International Investment, working with key partners in ensuring that there is a long-term structured offer to all members of the Commonwealth in ensuring their sustainability and economic progress.

[Lord Anderson of Swansea (Lab)]

My Lords, while welcoming the fact that the Commonwealth is still attractive to new members, we are bound to ask whether there are now any relevant criteria for membership such as links with Britain or human rights credentials.

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

On the noble Lord’s second point, there is a very strong and objective criterion assessment. No new member state joins unless the existing members of the Commonwealth agree. On the issue of past history, I think the Commonwealth is moving forward. Rwanda was never part of our imperial past, but it is very much part of our common future within the Commonwealth family.

British Council Contractors: Afghanistan

Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon Excerpts

Monday 27th June 2022 Lords Chamber

[Lord Collins of Highbury (Lab)]

My Lords, the situation in Afghanistan is obviously dire: there are humanitarian and human rights crises. In the Commons last Thursday, we heard that just under 200 British Council contractors are still trapped in Afghanistan. All of them are in fear of their lives. We know their names but not their locations. Bob Blackman asked the Minister, Vicky Ford, if the applications for those people to come out of Afghanistan to the UK can be “lodged by other people” on their behalf. As he rightly pointed out,

“people will have to spend time online and getting to places that will be unsafe for them to travel to.”—[Official Report, Commons, 23/6/22; col. 966.]

In response, Vicky Ford said that she would examine whether “third parties” can put in applications. Can the Minister advise the House on the progress on this because speed is absolutely of the essence, lives are at risk and we owe a duty of care to these people who worked on our behalf?

[The Minister of State, Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office (Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon) (Con)]

My Lords, first, I put on record my sincere thanks to the noble Lord for his constructive engagement on this important issue both during Operation Pitting and subsequently. He will be fully aware of my direct engagement on this. We welcome the opening of this particular pathway.

The noble Lord makes a valid point about accessibility. We are working directly with the three key partners that we announced in the three cohorts; the British Council is primary among them. The important thing is to get these people registered on the portal and here. The difficulties within Afghanistan are well known to us; we are of course working with key partners, such as the British Council, to ensure that we identify and look for safe passage for those of whom we are aware and whose details we have—although their locations may be sensitive—to leave Afghanistan and move onwards towards the United Kingdom. I cannot delve into more detail than that but I can reassure the noble Lord that we are working directly with the organisations we have identified and the British Council is a priority among them.

[Lord Purvis of Tweed (LD)]

My Lords, we owe these contractors gratitude and safety because they kept British officials safe, in the British Council and elsewhere. I understand that the pathway to which the Minister referred is temporary—it opened today—and the expressions of interest can be made only in a two-month period. Why is it temporary and why will it not be an ongoing rolling programme given many of the complexities, only one of which was rightly raised by the noble Lord, Lord Collins? What will the turnaround time be between expressing an interest in using this pathway and receiving a final decision about accessing resettlement? Who is in charge of making the final decision?

I ask because, last week, my honourable friend Munira Wilson asked the Prime Minister about a case with a constituency interest. It concerns a former member of the Supreme Court of Afghanistan and a former government Minister who applied to be part of the ARAP scheme in October last year, received a ticket in February but has heard nothing since. The Prime Minister asked the Home Secretary to follow up; the noble Lord, Lord Harrington, was deemed to be the Minister responsible. I saw him in the Chamber earlier but he is obviously not answering this Question, although we are grateful that the noble Lord, Lord Ahmad, is. Who is in charge and what will the turnaround time be?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, I will certainly follow up with my noble friend Lord Harrington. I fully accept that there are undoubtedly cases; I am aware of several and am grateful to the noble Lord for identifying one. Let us see how quickly we can move through some of them. On the ARAP case he identified, that scheme remains open and will be open—of course, it is being administered directly by the MoD—but I will certainly follow up with my noble friend Lord Harrington. I am sure that one of us will be able to provide the noble Lord with an answer.

On contractors, the noble Lord is right that there is a time-limited window during which these expressions of interest can be taken forward. The window for this particular pathway will close because, on pathway 3, there is a limit for year 1 of settlement. Once we reach this, eligibility criteria will be applied on an objective basis. As I alluded to in answer to the noble Lord, Lord Collins, we are working directly with the three cohorts: the Chevening cohort—this is directly under the FCDO—GardaWorld and the British Council. We are doing so to identify, where we can, any information that we need.

Of course, when that window closes, another announcement will be made towards the end of this year for the following year’s scheme, when we will be able to identify an additional cohort based on the numbers we have identified. However, as my honourable friend Vicky Ford said, the number for this year is set at 1,500. Because of commitments that we have already made, priority will be given to those who are covered through the Chevening scholarships; those who are involved and engaged through GardaWorld; and, of course, those who were working with the British Council as contractors.

[Baroness D’Souza (CB)]

My Lords, I thank the Minister for answering this question. Can he say whether he has any further information on the extent to which the Taliban in Afghanistan, particularly around Kabul, are still pursuing those linked to the British administration—and indeed many others who are linked to foreign organisations? As far as I can tell from the media, that is not a huge problem at the moment but I may be entirely wrong.

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

I thank the noble Baroness for her work in this area. The picture is different across Afghanistan. There are about eight or nine provinces where girls are being allowed to go to school and women are being allowed to work. However, there are certain places where the local commanders may be operating in a way that does not reflect the openness that we wish to see—even in a limited way—and that is being demonstrated in those eight or nine provinces.

On the specific issues around Kabul, I am sure I speak for the whole House when I say that our current focus is on supporting the direct victims of the tragic earthquake that took place in Afghanistan—and we are doing exactly that. However, the situation with some of the other priority issues, including girls’ education and the freedom of women to go out to work, are certainly among our priorities. As all noble Lords know, the situation is very difficult: we do not have a presence on the ground yet, but we are engaging with the Taliban at an official level. Have we seen co-operation? The short answer is yes. Indeed, I pay tribute to the officials in the FCDO who recently worked specifically, as noble Lords will be aware, on the release of British detainees. That was down to the fact that we worked in a very co-ordinated fashion and to the great courage and commitment of officials in the FCDO, who ensured the release of those detainees.

[Lord Browne of Ladyton (Lab)]

My Lords, if I understand this correctly, these people are contractors for the British Council, and employees of GardaWorld are working as security contractors for the Government and the embassy. In Scotland, they are very well known to us; we know exactly who these people are and we know a lot about them. Presumably, given what they were doing, we must be very sanguine about their attitude towards security. Why were these people excluded from the ARAP scheme in the first place? Why does the British Council now tell us that it was allowed to put only employees through the ARAP scheme and not the contractors? Why is it only now that we recognise that we should fulfil our obligation not only to them but to their families, to the extent of 1,500 people? Why do we not just include them in the ARAP scheme and give them the flexibility that everyone else has, rather than putting these people—a lot of whom, as we know, are living in daily fear of their lives—through this short window of opportunity to get registered for resettlement and, we hope, to get back to security with us?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, first, as the noble Lord is aware, there are two different schemes: the ARAP scheme has its eligibility criteria and the ACRS—which is now open as this particular pathway—has its own criteria. I know of individual cases of people being considered for the ARAP scheme but not being accepted on to it. However, there have been opportunities, as we have seen in certain cases, allowing others then to go through the ACRS process.

On the small window of opportunity that the noble Lord asked about, there is a cap on the number we will be taking in year one which is both manageable and, I think, consistent with the announcements we have made previously. Equally, this is only year one; other pathways are also open to those seeking settlement, including Pathway 2, on which we are working very closely with the UNHCR. There are those people, including those from the cohorts we have discussed, who will be in neighbouring countries. We are working very closely with the UNHCR on that pathway as well. Therefore, ARAP, ACRS, Pathway 2 and, indeed, ACRS Pathway 3 are different routes, which enable people to go through a process which would allow for their resettlement in the United Kingdom.

Evacuations from Afghanistan

Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon Excerpts

Thursday 26th May 2022 Lords Chamber

[The Minister of State, Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office (Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon) (Con)]

My Lords, with the leave of the House, I shall now repeat an Answer to an Urgent Question in the other place given by my right honourable friend the Minister for Europe and North America. The response is as follows:

“The Government are grateful to the Foreign Affairs Committee for its inquiry and detailed report. We will consider the report carefully and provide a written response on the timeline the committee has requested.

The scale of the crisis in Afghanistan last year was unprecedented in recent times. The report recognises that the Taliban took the country at a pace which surprised themselves, the international community and the former Government of Afghanistan. The many months of planning for the evacuation, and the enormous efforts of staff to deliver it, enabled us to evacuate more than 15,000 people within a fortnight under exceptionally difficult circumstances. The Government could not have delivered this evacuation without planning, grip and leadership.

The evacuation involved processing the details of thousands of individuals by MoD, FCDO and Home Office staff in the UK, and by a team on the ground in Kabul. In anticipation of the situation, the FCDO had reserved the Baron Hotel, so the UK was the only country apart from the United States to have a dedicated emergency handling centre where it could receive and process people at Kabul International Airport. FCDO staff were on the ground in Kabul throughout, alongside other government departments and the military.

RAF flights airlifted people to a dedicated terminal in Dubai, reserved in advance by the FCDO, where evacuees were assisted by another cross-government team. They were then flown on FCDO-chartered flights to the UK where they were received by staff from the Home Office and other departments who ensured they were cared for and quarantined. The evacuation was carefully planned and tightly co-ordinated, and it delivered.

As it does following all crises, the FCDO has conducted a thorough lessons learned exercise. We have written to the FAC with the main findings. Changes have already been implemented by the FCDO, for example in response to the Ukraine crisis.

We all regret that we were not able to help more of those people who worked with us or for us out of Afghanistan during the military evacuation. Since the end of the evacuation last summer, we have helped over 4,600 people to leave Afghanistan. We will continue to work to deliver on our commitment to those eligible for resettlement here in the United Kingdom through the ARAP programme and the Afghan citizens resettlement scheme.”

[Lord Collins of Highbury (Lab)]

My Lords, I thank the noble Lord for repeating the Answer to the Urgent Question. I suspect all Ministers will find the report difficult reading, but no doubt the noble Lord will because he worked so hard during the crisis. I know that he was totally committed to helping people escape. However, the Doha agreement was signed 18 months before Kabul fell. It was obvious to many that the Taliban were emboldened by the difficulties faced by the Afghan security forces, yet their success seems to have come as a surprise to the Government. Does the noble Lord accept that this was a fatal flaw in our intelligence, and will he commit to a specific review into those particular failures?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, the noble Lord is quite right: I lived that crisis, and I continue to live and work on the situation and the response to the evacuation of Afghanistan. Even today, it remains the case that there are many people seeking to leave Afghanistan, particularly the most vulnerable, and it is important that we continue to engage. Certainly, through direct engagement and direct briefings—both at the FCDO and in Parliament—I have ensured that our colleagues across both Houses are fully informed.

On the specific issue of planning, I was engaged on this and, of course, I made my own assessments and provided appropriate briefings to the teams in the FCDO and Her Majesty’s Government. I recall that as late as July, I was at a conference in Uzbekistan where I met the then president, President Ghani; Foreign Minister Atmar; other key partners, including the United States, Turkey and all near neighbours; and international organisations. While it was very clear that the Taliban were gaining ground, no one—I repeat, no one—had made an assessment that this would happen so quickly. I fully accept the premise about when the fall of Kabul happened, on 15 August—indeed, I remember speaking to Foreign Minister Atmar on 11, 13 and 15 August, and then again on 16 August. Even as late as Thursday, with Kabul falling on the Saturday, there was an inward- bound Turkish delegation to Kabul.

We continue to work with partners. Undoubtedly there are lessons that have to be learned and improvements to be made—and, yes, some of those have been implemented in the response to Ukraine. But it is equally important to ensure that we remain vigilant to the current situation, which remains live in Afghanistan, including the humanitarian situation. Therefore, I am proud that, notwithstanding the challenges we face, the Government remain committed to providing support, particularly humanitarian support, to the most vulnerable in Afghanistan.

[Baroness Kennedy of The Shaws (Lab)]

My Lords, the Minister knows that I was involved in evacuating a significant number of women lawyers and judges from Afghanistan, and chartered flights to do that. We managed to get six into the United Kingdom. After the military evacuations, only six of those 103 on the lily pad in Athens were allowed to come into Britain. That was possible because women judges here had mentored some of those judges, so they had received prior letters of evacuation—indeed, the Minister himself had provided some of them. We tried to get women at risk into this country afterwards but we did not succeed. How many visas have been given since the end of last August to women from Afghanistan who are at risk?

--- Later in debate ---

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, I first acknowledge all the work that the noble Baroness engaged in both during the crisis and subsequently. She and I have worked on the important issue of vulnerable communities in Afghanistan, particularly the cohort of judges that she refers to. On the specifics of the number of vulnerable identified women, I can certainly write to her after consulting my colleagues at the Home Office. I have quoted an overall figure of 4,600 who have settled here in the UK since the evacuation, but I will write to her on the specific break- down after I have got the detail from the Home Office.

[Lord Stoneham of Droxford (LD)]

I pay tribute to the Minister’s role in this incident last year, but the report is pretty scathing about the Government’s mismanagement. It says that there were no necessary preparations for the withdrawal and no proper plan. There was mismanagement—indeed there seems to be a cycle of mismanagement in the Government—and I want to know precisely how the Foreign Office and the Government plan to stop this sort of action happening again.

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, as I have always acknowledged, there are always improvements that can be made—the same is true in the current crisis in Ukraine. You cannot say that any Government have a perfect response in every crisis; you do not know, because every crisis is different. We had made plans. I remember myself, after heavy diplomatic engagement with near-neighbours, that I returned via Dubai deliberately on the day that we handed the keys back to the Emiratis. There was no panic in Dubai; there was a massive operation there and we are grateful to the Emirati authorities for the strong co-operation that we saw then. That would not have happened if it had not been planned.

On the issue of lessons learned, I lived through the Covid crisis when we were repatriating, and one challenge that we faced then was chartering flights. In Afghanistan, not only did we have chartered flights ready but we had a reserve option, and indeed a second reserve option with other large carriers. Previous crises fed into the planning. Of course there are improvements to be made, and they are being implemented. We have seen that in the strong cross-government co-operation in the response to Ukraine and in the leadership that we have been able to show within the international community on the Ukraine crisis and more.

[Lord McDonald of Salford (CB)]

My Lords, one reason why the Ghani Government collapsed so quickly was the suddenness of the disappearance of western forces. Can the Minister confirm that the timetable for that withdrawal was decided in Washington DC by the American military and that, for whatever reason—possibly now to their regret—the Americans did not listen to their allies, including the United Kingdom?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, again, the noble Lord speaks with great insight and knowledge of the situation. Yes, there was a decision that had been taken by the United States in relation to the NATO engagement in Afghanistan, and we were of course part of that engagement. It was very clear that, once the United States had made that decision to withdraw and the timetable had been set, we had to work to those parameters. The challenges that we saw were immense. I turn to the point on the speed, even on the day, at which the Taliban took over Kabul. There are now some incredible women leaders right here in London; they were sitting on planes ready to leave and do their daily business—no one expected the fall of Kabul as quickly as it happened. Equally, it is important that, when partners work together, they share intelligence so that, in extremely challenging and unprecedented situations, decisions can be made to deliver the best possible outcomes.

[Lord Cashman (Lab)]

My Lords, I wish to recognise the incredible work done by the Minister on this issue, particularly since the fall. I want to raise the issue of vulnerable groups. A large number of LGBT people who were hoping to get out of the country are now in hiding. Are the Minister’s Government still in regular contact with Amnesty International, Stonewall, Rainbow Migration and the other organisations that are working very hard and on the ground on this issue?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, I assure the noble Lord that we continue to work with key groups that have links with NGOs on the ground. I referred earlier to some of the incredible, courageous women leaders; they are also very much part of my formal engagement, and are informing our decisions today and our medium and long-term policy when it comes to Afghanistan. On LGBT people and other minorities, the situation is dire—the noble Lord knows the Taliban’s approach to this issue. However, that does not mean that we should be deterred from our focus on and support for these communities in Afghanistan.

[Baroness Falkner of Margravine (CB)]

My Lords, briefly, I declare an interest as chair of the HRC. I wrote to the Minister about trying to evacuate the Afghanistan Independent Human Rights Commission. For brevity, can he just tell me whether he will write back to me to tell me what happened there and whether any of its members got out?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

I can say to the noble Baroness that a number of its members left, but I will write to her in this respect to allow for further questions.

[Baroness Barker (LD)]

My Lords, I am part of a charity that managed to facilitate the extraction of a number of LGBT people from Afghanistan. Fortunately, some of them came to Britain. However, others are stuck in neighbouring countries, where although not facing certain death they are still in grave danger. Can the Minister say what is being done to enable those people to come to the United Kingdom?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, as I have already said to the noble Lord, Lord Cashman, we will continue to work with them. If the noble Baroness has any specific information to assist, I will of course be pleased to meet her.

[Lord Anderson of Ipswich (CB)]

My Lords, the Minister, whose conscience and industry in these matters is doubted by no one, will be aware of a case that was publicised in the Guardian on 1 May. Does he think it fair to say of an Afghan judge currently in fear for his life, who, in an ISAF-led counterterrorism court, tried and removed to custody hundreds of insurgents captured by British and other ISAF forces, and who has applied to be resettled here through the ARAP scheme, that he did not make

“a material contribution to HMG’s mission in Afghanistan”?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, our colleagues in the Ministry of Defence are working as quickly as they can on a number of ARAP cases that have arisen. Of course, ARAP is one pathway; there is also the ACRS pathway. I suggest to the noble Lord that there are a number of judges, as the noble Baroness, Lady Kennedy, said, and other notable communities and minorities. I assure the noble Lord of my best offices. Efforts are ongoing to help a number of people and communities who are still very vulnerable.

However, I will also be candid: the challenge in any engagement, as we have with the Taliban at an official level, is that the situation is becoming more dire. Recently, we have seen the challenges imposed by the Taliban on girls seeking to partake in education. It is not the same throughout the country but there are challenges. More recently, we have seen regressive attitudes towards women. It is not just about the UK and our obvious key alliances and partnerships. We must work with Afghanistan’s near neighbours, the Islamic world and the OIC to stop the poisonous narrative of the Taliban, which it continues to peddle against minorities and vulnerable communities, be they women or those very professionals who set up the Afghanistan we all want to see—an inclusive, progressive Afghanistan. We stand by those people and will play our part.

House adjourned at 3.33 pm.

Russia and Ukraine: Settlement

Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon Excerpts

Thursday 26th May 2022 Lords Chamber

[Lord Campbell-Savours]

To ask Her Majesty’s Government what assessment they have made of the circumstances in which they would endorse the terms of a settlement between the government of Russia and the government of Ukraine regarding the current conflict.

[The Minister of State, Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office (Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon) (Con)]

My Lords, we applaud Ukraine’s efforts to engage in dialogue in the face of continued Russian aggression. The United Kingdom and our allies support Ukraine’s efforts to secure a settlement that delivers a sustainable peace in line with established principles of European security. Any outcome needs to ensure Russian withdrawal and a ceasefire, and to strengthen Ukraine so it is able to deter future Russian aggression and, if necessary, defend itself.

[Lord Campbell-Savours (Lab) [V]]

My Lords, why, prior to a war now riddled with Russian atrocities, did we reject the December 2021 Russian-proposed talks on a draft treaty covering security guarantees, arms control, self-government within Ukraine for Donetsk and the maintenance of the existing corridor of non-nuclear barrier states from Finland to the Black Sea? Jens Stoltenberg agreed to the talks; why did we not? Russia’s proposed treaty was only in draft. Why did we not use it—indeed, why do we not use it—and build on it as the basis for negotiation and at least try to end this proxy war? There is a copy of the draft treaty in our Library.

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, there is a simple answer to that. Any partner to a negotiation needs to uphold the rule of law. Russia has repeatedly failed, including in 2008 through its aggression in Georgia and in 2014 through its annexation of Crimea. Those were illegal acts of aggression, as is the current war in Ukraine.

[Lord Lamont of Lerwick (Con)]

My Lords, has my noble friend read the speech of Henry Kissinger in Davos, where he advised attendees at the conference not to get swept up in the mood of the moment and suggested that negotiations to end the war had to begin in the next two months

“before it creates upheavals and tensions that will not be easily”

contained? He suggested that the starting point for negotiations should be the pre-invasion de facto borders. Does my noble friend agree that Dr Kissinger is no woolly idealist but a hard-headed diplomat with a very distinguished record? However inconvenient it may be, should not his advice be carefully studied?

--- Later in debate ---

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, I had the opportunity to meet Dr Kissinger a couple of years ago. When we look at any conflict, all wise words need to be listened to, of course. What is equally important, however, is that the sovereignty and integrity of every nation are protected.

[Lord Collins of Highbury (Lab)]

My Lords, I completely agree with the Minister. If there is to be a negotiated settlement, as President Zelensky says there must be, Ukraine must be in the driving seat. But what can we do to support President Zelensky’s objective? When I met Barbara Woodward this week, she stressed that the Secretary-General is now much more proactive in trying to bring the parties together. There are also opportunities for bilateral support. Can the Minister tell us what the Government are doing to support those objectives?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, I thank the noble Lord. He and I have been speaking about this consistently throughout. I am glad that he met Ambassador Woodward. We continue to engage through all multilateral channels, particularly on humanitarian issues. We were first in line; indeed, I spoke with the Secretary-General in New York about the importance of engaging with all sides. Even at that time, as the noble Lord knows, Russia would not entertain a visit from him. Later today, I will meet the Ukrainian prosecutor-general, Iryna Venediktova, who is in town, to discuss our support for her work on the ground. We will continue to work with Ukraine, particularly on the current situation around food security, to which my noble friend Lord Lamont alluded. That issue is not just about Ukraine and Russia; it is about the whole world.

[Lord Alton of Liverpool (CB)]

My Lords, the noble Lord is right to emphasise the importance of holding to account those who are responsible for war crimes in places such as Mariupol and Bucha, as well as for the illegal invasion of Ukraine. There is no moral equivalence between Ukraine and Russia here. Will the Minister report back to the House on what action is being taken to bring to justice those responsible for these terrible events? Also, will he say more about the opening up of grain supplies? This issue is now jeopardising people living in places such as east Africa and the Horn of Africa, where 20 million people already facing chronic drought and famine-like conditions will now be denied grain as a result of the blockade of Odessa.

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, I assure the noble Lord that, as I have already mentioned, I have a meeting later today with the prosecutor-general, the Deputy Prime Minister and the Justice Secretary. The work we are doing through the ICC will also be a point of discussion. Yesterday, along with the United States and the EU, we announced an advisory group to look at aggression. We welcome the first prosecution that has taken place on the ground. On the noble Lord’s wider point, we have put additional funding and support into the Horn of Africa, primarily on this very issue of food security. I have visited north Africa and will do so again later next month.

[Lord Purvis of Tweed (LD)]

My Lords, the element of futility in Putin’s human rights atrocities and slaughter of the people of Ukraine is that the current bombardments are purely within the buffer area of the Minsk agreements. Some of us do not take our foreign policy lead from Henry Kissinger. There have been calls from the Republican right to negotiate on that ceded territory. The Foreign Secretary is on the record as saying that the UK’s sanctions will be in place until all Russian troops have left Ukrainian territory. The very thing that Putin wants at this time, in what will be a long-term, protracted conflict, is western division. What mechanisms are in place for the UK to use to ensure that such division does not arise?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, it has been very important to show unity of purpose and unity of action. The noble Lord mentions the role of sanctions. As he said—I believe this passionately—the sanctions have worked because, where one country or region has led in front of others, we have co-ordinated and worked together. Those sanctions are hurting Russia, Mr Putin, the Russian Government and all those who support them. It is important that we retain them. As the noble Lord, Lord Collins, said—I am in total agreement with him—any negotiation must be led by Ukraine and it is the job of any ally, partner or friend to be firmly behind Ukraine.

[Lord Robathan (Con)]

Your Lordships will know that, in 1938, France and the United Kingdom imposed on Czechoslovakia a deal that they had come to with the Third Reich. This is not a good precedent. The Government have rightly been praised from both sides for their actions on Ukraine. Can my noble friend assure me that we are talking to our allies, in particular France and Germany, to ensure that they do not try to impose their own settlement on Ukraine? It must be the Ukrainians who lead; we support them.

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, I totally agree with my noble friend. The Government are engaging at the top level. My right honourable friend the Prime Minister engages regularly with President Zelensky on the principles that he has articulated. Let us be clear: President Zelensky has said “Let’s meet” directly to Mr Putin. It is important that we get behind his efforts.

[Lord Anderson of Swansea (Lab)]

Does the Minister recall that the Foreign Secretary spoke of reclaiming all the lands lost by Ukraine, which would presumably include Crimea and be a recipe for continued and long-term conflict? That was at a time when President Zelensky was speaking of returning to the borders of 24 February, although I concede that he has hardened his line a little. Essentially, he has been pragmatic. Was it not unwise of the Foreign Secretary to be more hard-line than the President?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, what my right honourable friend the Foreign Secretary articulated was on the basis of international borders and recognising the sovereignty and integrity of Ukraine. The 2014 annexation of Crimea was illegal.

[Baroness Sugg (Con)]

My Lords, in relation to the impending food crisis and the 20 million tonnes of grain that are being held hostage by Russia in Ukraine’s Black Sea ports, Russian Deputy Foreign Minister Rudenko offered yesterday to provide a corridor for vessels carrying food to leave Ukraine, but only if some sanctions are lifted. What is the Government’s position on this?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, I assure my noble friend that food security is very much at the forefront of not just our thinking but our policy. Over the next three years, we will direct more than £3 billion of support to the most vulnerable countries, particularly in Africa. Yesterday, in engaging with G7 partners, Foreign Minister Kuleba said, I believe, that this agricultural crisis will not be for just one cycle but will be repeated.

There is grain in Ukraine currently. The issue is that Odessa and the Black Sea are blocked and mined. This requires Russia not just to show full co-operation but to pull back. It could demine certain parts where the Ukrainians themselves have provided mines—they know where they are—as part of the support. Equally, however, what guarantees do we have once we get into the Black Sea? That is where Crimea comes in. The Black Sea allows Russia to embargo any ship going through. Of course, mines remain a constant challenge.

[Lord West of Spithead (Lab)]

My Lords, it is quite clear that the early euphoria about how Ukraine is doing must now be tempered. There is no doubt that the Russians have twigged what a shambles they have made of this and are now focusing on much smaller areas; for example, in the Donbass. This war will grind on and Putin shows no desire to have some form of agreement. We know that he behaves appallingly and that Russia lies about these things. That means that this war will continue because he will not come to the table until he finds that it is causing real pain and the sanctions start to hit. It is therefore important that we keep supplying weapons to Ukraine and keep up that flow.

Can I ask a precise question? A lot of the weapons we have been providing and sending to Ukraine are from orders that were for people in western Europe. We have not let contracts to enable our arms manufacturers to produce these weapons for our own stocks and to replace the weapons being used in Ukraine. Can the Minister confirm that these orders will be let because this has gone on and on and that has not happened?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, without getting into the specifics of each contract—of course, that is a Ministry of Defence lead—I will look through the noble Lord’s question and answer appropriately.

Russia (Sanctions) (EU Exit) (Amendment) (No. 9) Regulations 2022

Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon Excerpts

Thursday 26th May 2022 Lords Chamber

Moved by

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

That the Regulations laid before the House on 27 April be approved.

Relevant document: 1st Report from the Secondary Legislation Scrutiny Committee. Considered in Grand Committee on 23 May.

Motion agreed.

Xinjiang Internment Camps: Shoot-to-Kill Policy

Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon Excerpts

Wednesday 25th May 2022 Lords Chamber

[Lord Collins of Highbury (Lab)]

My Lords, for some time this House has called on the United Kingdom Government to back a UN visit to Xinjiang to assess the scale of human rights abuses, which we have now seen so shockingly illustrated by the BBC report. Michelle Bachelet has finally arrived. However, it is reported that her access is being restricted, with the UN stressing that the visit cannot be considered an investigation. While Amanda Milling reiterated yesterday the call for unfettered access, can the Minister tell us what steps the Government are taking, with our allies, to secure proper access for the UN?

On future policy, Amanda Milling said the Government

“will continue to develop our domestic policy response, including introducing further measures to tackle forced labour in UK supply chains.”—[Official Report, Commons, 24/5/22; col. 159.]

An opportunity starts with the Procurement Bill, which has its Second Reading this afternoon, to protect British customers and consumers from complicity in the Uighur genocide. Will the Minister support amendments to back British businesses which generally want to do the right thing?

[The Minister of State, Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office (Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon) (Con)]

My Lords, the noble Lord, Lord Collins, and I have been working together, and I am conscious of and grateful for the strong support on the issue of Xinjiang. The continuing trials, tribulations and persecution of, and indeed violations against, the Uighur community in Xinjiang are appalling and abhorrent, and my right honourable friend the Foreign Secretary has put out a statement to that effect.

On the noble Lord’s first point on Michelle Bachelet, the High Commissioner is well known to me. Indeed, the United Kingdom was the first country to call, both directly in a bilateral meeting with her and at the Human Rights Council, for a visit to Xinjiang, which, as the noble Lord acknowledged, is under way. However, he is quite right that it is, to use quite diplomatic terms, a managed visit. Clearly, access will be quite limited. We are certainly working with our friends and partners. We also press the High Commissioner for a specific report on the situation in Xinjiang. Earlier today I was scoping as to either a direct call or a visit to Geneva to pursue that very issue. I will update your Lordships’ House on that specifically.

The Government are committed to tackling the issue of Uighur forced labour in supply chains. In September 2020, there was an ambitious package of changes to the Modern Slavery Act. I am sure the noble Lord noted that these measures will be included in the modern slavery Bill, which was announced as part of the Queen’s Speech in May this year. On the other point he raised on procurement, I do not know and cannot predict what amendments will come forward, but the Procurement Bill is also looking quite specifically at supply chain issues. From experience, I am sure that many a noble Lord will look at that Bill quite specifically.

[Lord Purvis of Tweed (LD)]

My Lords, the fact that we have been able to witness this dreadful information is testimony to there being a free and open media, in stark contrast to what the people of China themselves will be denied seeing by their Government. I have asked this on three occasions now. Given that we are trade dependent on China for goods, with a trade deficit now of more than £40 billion—the biggest trade deficit with a single country in our country’s history—our leverage is limited, but what are the areas in which preferential access to UK markets will be restricted by state-owned enterprises, especially in the financial services sector? The Government have signed a number of agreements with the People’s Republic of China, but the Government have not been able to say whether any triggering mechanisms on human rights abuses exist. Are there any areas in which the Government will restrict access to China on the basis of these grotesque human rights abuses?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

First of all, I agree with the noble Lord about the issue of human rights abuses. As the UK’s Human Rights Minister, it is something very specific to the agenda that I am following directly and with partners through all networks. We raise issues and concerns directly and bilaterally, and through various UN and multilateral fora.

On the specific issues of our trade with China, we must make sure that our trade with China is reliable, but that it avoids any kind of strategic dependency, and of course the important issues that the noble Lord draws to our focus about human rights abuses. One hopes also that, through some of the measures we are taking in the Bill that I announced on modern slavery, and also the discussions that we will have on whatever legislation comes forward, we will continue to focus on eradicating those human rights abuses, and that those companies which still seek to trade in that capacity will be held to account.

[Lord Alton of Liverpool (CB)]

My Lords, I declare an interest as a member of the All-Party Parliamentary Group on Uyghurs. It was the Foreign Secretary, Liz Truss, who said that a genocide is under way in Xinjiang: the ultimate human rights violation, the crime above all crimes. At a meeting with her and the Prime Minister, held with sanctioned parliamentarians, we were promised that government policy on genocide determination would be reformed. Will the noble Lord tell us how this can be expedited, and whether he will arrange a follow-up meeting with the Foreign Secretary? Will he urgently draw John Sudworth’s admirable BBC documentary to the attention of the UN’s Michelle Bachelet during her current visit to the region?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, on the noble Lord’s final point, that documentary—I have certainly seen part of it, not in full, but I have also seen many of the images associated with it—really makes your stomach churn, in every sense. It is abhorrent, in every sense. I was pleased that my right honourable friend the Foreign Secretary, and the Prime Minister, met with the noble Lord, amongst others. I am also aware that the PM at that meeting demonstrated how seriously we are taking this issue. I will follow up and of course update the noble Lord.

[Lord Polak (Con)]

My Lords, 20 months ago I asked my noble friend whether he could confirm that we will not support China’s election to the Human Rights Council. It seems clear that China continues to abuse its position at that council. I ask my noble friend the Minister, following John Sudworth’s harrowing report, whether the UK Government will now do the right thing, and lead a campaign to suspend China from the Human Rights Council.

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, first of all I pay tribute to my noble friend’s persistent focus on this particular issue. On the issue he raises about the Human Rights Council, every country that stands for election to the Human Rights Council, and is present in its 47 members, needs to demonstrate a strong human rights record domestically. There is now precedent established within the UN, but removing a particular country from a particular UN body is never easy. However, what I would say to my noble friend is that the fact that China persists and seeks to campaign for continued membership of the Human Rights Council also provides a huge opportunity—notwithstanding the fact that its human rights record is deplorable—for us to raise issues with it quite directly, and also demonstrate and showcase the consistent abuse that takes place, particularly against the Uighur community.

[Lord Mackenzie of Framwellgate (Non-Afl)]

My Lords, these horrific matters have been raised many times in your Lordships’ House. There is clear evidence of genocide, forced organ harvesting and other human rights abuses, clearly recorded by Sir Geoffrey Nice. We did not act decisively enough when Putin seized Crimea eight years ago and went on to commit murder in Salisbury, and we saw the consequences. Could the Minister say what further action the UK will take, in conjunction with democratic partners, to call China to account, or will history simply repeat itself with the invasion of Taiwan?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, we are certainly working with our partners. As I am sure the noble Lord acknowledges, we have acted to hold to account senior officials and organisations who are responsible for egregious abuse of human rights within Xinjiang. That said, we keep policy constantly under review and it remains very much on the table. We will continue to work in co-ordination with our partners in that respect.

[Baroness Bennett of Manor Castle (GP)]

My Lords, the Answer given in the other place made no reference to an asylum response to these shocking reports. As it is very clear that the Uighurs are being persecuted because of their religion and ethnicity, and are in need of legal protection, will the Government issue visas for Uighurs fleeing persecution in China, including or perhaps particularly those who are in countries where they face the risk of deportation to China?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, the noble Baroness raises a very valid point, and I assure her that the United Kingdom has been and remains very much a place where people seek sanctuary. That applies to the Uighurs specifically and indeed to any other persecuted community around the world. This is a tradition and a right that continues to be alive—and long may it continue.

[Baroness Sugg (Con)]

My Lords, can my noble friend share the Government’s assessment of British business’s supply chain activity in Xinjiang? What support is being provided to enhance transparency for British consumers who wish to know the origin of the products they are purchasing?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My noble friend raises a valid point. In terms of practical steps, the Department for International Trade is very much focused on the provisions we will bring forward in the modern slavery Bill. Within that, we will seek to provide advice to business on this specific issue. Alluding to the sourcing of particular products is a valid suggestion, and I will certainly share that with colleagues at the FCDO and DIT.