Climate and Nature

Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon Excerpts

Wednesday 22nd November 2023 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Walmsley]

To ask His Majesty’s Government what assessment they have made of the conclusion of the recent editorial by over 200 global health journals in The Lancet of 25 October, that the climate and nature crisis is “a global health emergency”; and what plans they have to address this.

[The Minister of State, Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office (Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon) (Con)]

My Lords, the UK recognises that climate change, biodiversity loss and risk due to zoonotic diseases are intrinsically linked. This is why we advocate for a multi- sectoral, one-health approach to global health, to protect nature and deliver climate-resilient and sustainable healthcare systems.

[Baroness Walmsley (LD)]

As the Minister has indicated, the relationship between climate change and health is complex. I ask him, however, about action on heat stress here in the UK. The Lancet’s latest report on the issue indicated that heat stress deaths are predicted to increase by 370%. Here in the UK last year, heat stress deaths increased by 42%. Can the Minister say what action the Government are taking to ensure that the design of new homes includes ensuring that homes do not overheat? What action is being taken to ensure that public buildings also do not overheat?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

Well, I know briefs go widely, but I think it would be best if I first give a personal anecdote. I absolutely get what the noble Baroness is saying. This summer, when homes are meant for insulation, I think we all felt the challenges and I think we need to look specifically at how we design homes, particularly in the community, and how we design offices. As someone who sits in a rather grand building not far from here, quite often the challenge, when the heat is on outside, is that it is extremely hot inside, and when it is cold outside, the heat does not come on—so there are some fundamental challenges in your Lordships’ House as well. I will revert to the noble Baroness when I have talked to colleagues in the department for levelling up, because I think they will have a sense, but I can assure her that the Department of Health, Defra and the FCDO are working together, looking at a one-health approach encompassing the very issues she highlighted.

[Lord McColl of Dulwich (Con)]

My Lords, does the Minister agree that the real medical crisis in this country is that we have 40 million people moving slowly to a premature death from a variety of very unpleasant diseases because they are putting too many calories into their mouth? Will he kindly try to get the Department of Health to stop its false propaganda saying that we should have a low-fat diet, when we know, and science has proven, that the proper kind of fat in the diet limits the amount of obesity?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

The wideness and diversity of my brief has often been talked about: I now feel I am speaking for the Department of Health. I am delighted that my noble friend is on the Front Bench and he will speak with particular insight, but my noble friend who put the question has great expertise himself—his own profession lends itself—and to sum it all up, I totally agree with him.

[Lord Browne of Ladyton (Lab)]

My Lords, climate change is already having a material effect on malaria transmission. Forecasts suggest that owing to a rise in global temperatures, transmission seasons could be up to five months longer by 2070. Already, malaria rates in Mozambique are at their highest since the current reporting phase began in 2017. More than 70% of anti- malaria drugs used in Africa are imported, so what is the international community doing, and what are we doing, to stimulate local manufacture of drugs to ensure that weaknesses in the international supply chain do not result in preventable deaths?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

The noble Lord is correct and I can assure him, from our experience of the Covid pandemic, that we are working in collaboration with India on global health generally but specifically on malaria. We welcome India in tackling global health threats and the whole issue of malaria is something we are looking at specifically, based on our research, in terms of collaboration with India on manufacturing. Indeed, two of the main vaccines currently being developed for malaria are actually UK research based.

[Lord Trees (CB)]

My Lords, with regard to global health and climate change—I am sorry it is health again —the latter is having a huge impact on insect-borne diseases of both humans and animals. Malaria has been mentioned, but another very specific threat is that of dengue viral disease in humans, which is no longer confined to the tropics. Indeed, there was an endemic outbreak in people in the Paris region only two to three months ago. So I ask the Minister, although it may be a bit outside his brief, what preparations His Majesty’s Government are making to prepare for, detect and hopefully prevent incursions of similar insect-borne infections into the UK.

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, it is not just my brief, it is my department. I agree with the noble Lord. When we look not just at malaria but at the spread of dengue fever, I know this for myself because a member of my own family sadly and tragically was infected and then died from dengue fever. We are working in this respect. The noble Lord is correct. We have seen those infections, those transported diseases, very much in evidence now in the UK. The rare and imported pathogens laboratory at Porton Down has accredited, reliable tests for dengue and other infections and we are working with partners and local authorities. We had a question just now about heat as well, and it is notable that, even at a local level in southern England, we have found invasive mosquito vectors appearing on six occasions. That reflects how global transmission is very much a reality, but we do have laboratories very much at the front end of our research to address these issues.

[Lord Collins of Highbury (Lab)]

My Lords, the biggest impact on global health is disasters caused by climate change. I know the noble Lord is very aware, because we debated it 10 years ago, of the Sendai Framework for Disaster Risk Reduction, agreed by the UN in 2015. Although there was a chapter in the international development White Paper on climate change impact and what we would do, there was sadly no mention of the specific impact that the Sendai framework can have. Can he reassure me that this Government are focused on that, to ensure that we reduce the potential impact of disasters?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

I can give the noble Lord that reassurance. I confess that I do not remember the exact detail of our debate 10 years ago, but I am sure that Hansard has recorded it fully. We will have a Statement on the White Paper tomorrow, when I am sure we can amplify some of those lines, but I give him that reassurance. For any kind of challenge posed by climate change, whether weather-based or natural things such as earthquakes and so on, we need a consolidated, collaborative response. That needs to be reflected in our development policy.

[Baroness Blackstone (Lab)]

My Lords, climate change reduces crop yields and lowers the quality of food. This affects household and global food security, so how are the Government working with global partners to shore up good systems for food resilience?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

I agree with the noble Baroness and assure her that we are working on this. As I said in my Answer, we recognise that climate change, biodiversity loss and disease emergence are intrinsically linked. These issues need to be looked at as a whole, not separately. We work with international agencies—including the World Health Organization, which is also looking specifically at climate change and its impact on daily human lives—and we have the COP coming up, which will be an opportunity to discuss climate and its real impact on other aspects of how we go about our daily lives, including issues of food security, food safety and nutrition. As recent events around the world have demonstrated, these climate issues are big causes of conflict. However, nutrition and food security also need to be addressed.

[Lord Allan of Hallam (LD)]

My Lords, to bring the Minister back to his own department, can he confirm whether it has any plans to increase funding for international health observatories that are focused on the early identification of diseases that might affect the United Kingdom?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, our department is looking at research and evidence bases and has allocated £85 million in this respect. Last night, when I had the real honour of attending the state dinner, I was sitting next to a professor from DSIT who is looking at a cross-government approach to how we bring our research and evidence base together, to ensure that we can act in the very way the noble Lord intends us to do.

UK Sanctions Regime: Russia and Belarus

Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon Excerpts

Tuesday 14th November 2023 Lords Chamber

[Lord Collins of Highbury (Lab)]

My Lords, I start by saying how pleased I am to see the Minister in his place. I also repeat what I have said many times before: the Opposition are at one with the Government in supporting Ukraine and sanctioning those responsible for starting this horrendous war.

However, there are serious concerns about the effectiveness of our sanctions regime, nearly two years after the invasion. It is unacceptable that 130 UK companies have admitted breaching Russia-related sanctions. I welcome the Statement of the Minister in the other place, that the Government are closing loopholes, but can the Minister set out what assessment has been made of the alleged existence of specific loopholes to allow indirect imports of Russian- and Belarusian-origin steel, or indeed Russian-origin crude oil that has been refined in third countries? This is a really serious issue in terms of the loopholes that have been identified.

[The Minister of State, Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office (Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon) (Con)]

My Lords, first, I thank the noble Lord for his kind remarks. Your Lordships’ House will be pleased to know that we will be having two FCDO Ministers here, which underlines the strong commitment of the FCDO and, indeed, His Majesty’s Government to your Lordships’ House.

[Lord Collins of Highbury (Lab)]

It should have been you!

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

I shall carry on with the Answer. The noble Lord is totally right, and I appreciate him confirming again the importance of standing in solidarity against Russia’s continued invasion of Ukraine. As an aside, I have literally just come over from a Ukrainian survivor event that we were hosting at the Foreign Office—some of them very young survivors who have been through the most horrendous ordeals. It is important we send a message of unity.

On the specifics, I followed last week’s reports from City A.M. about 130 companies. There is a positive here, because this was voluntarily admitted, although there is of course inadvertent non-compliance. I assure noble Lords that we are working with our colleagues across government, particularly in the Treasury as well as other departments. The Office of Financial Sanctions Implementation is looking specifically at how we can further tighten some of the procedures. While we have fined companies that have acted inappropriately, and called others out, other methods are being put in place, including warning letters and mitigations. We are working particularly closely with the Treasury team to ensure, as I have always said, that loopholes are identified. Other loopholes identified as the sanctions are applied will also be closed.

The noble Lord rightly asked about some of the other specific industries and the sanctions we have imposed recently, including on areas such as oil and other contraventions. I assure noble Lords that, as we apply further sanctions, we will continue to identify such areas and loopholes. Only last week, on 8 November, we announced a further targeting of 29 individuals and entities operating in and supporting Russia’s gold, oil and strategic sectors, which are critical sources of revenue.

[Lord Purvis of Tweed (LD)]

My Lords, I too admire the Minister’s reshuffle resilience and welcome him to the continuation of his post. I commend the Government on the latest sanctions on gold. The Minister knows that I have been warning about the UAE gold trade in Africa for a number of months now, and the measures in Zimbabwe are extremely welcome. Can he ensure that this will now be expanded to Sudan and other areas where that trade is so pernicious?

On implementation, I looked at the updates on enforcement on the Office of Financial Sanctions Implementation website just before coming into the Chamber. The Minister referred to enforcement. The OFSI has said that, since 2019, there has been £21 million of enforcement against UK businesses. But, since the Russian invasion in 2022, there has been only £45,000-worth of enforcement against UK companies. Is the Minister satisfied that there is nearly 100% adherence to sanctions, or could we be doing more on enforcement actions against those who are circumventing them?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, I record my thanks to the noble Lord for his kind remarks. I recognise, as he has, that this is about cross-party working and identifying what further steps we can take. I would not be bold enough to suggest that we have 100% compliance or that we are closing every loophole that has been identified; as I said, there will be further action in these areas. I also take on board some of the countries he mentioned where we can do further work. I will work with colleagues across government to ensure that, when we identify particular areas, I will notify the Front Benches in the usual way about action we are considering taking.

[Lord Watts (Lab)]

My Lords, what system do the Government have for monitoring these sanctions? It seems strange that the media seem to have been better informed than the Government. What measures will the Government put in place to make sure that they do this effectively?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, part and parcel of our work with the Treasury and, in particular, the Office of Financial Sanctions Implementation is, first, to ensure that we identify the actual structures being used and abused in this way to override sanctions and, then, to work directly with companies and inform them of mitigation methods that can be taken. This is ever-evolving, so, with the more sanctions we impose and the more sectors we look at, there is a lag time before they become effective. As I have already alluded to, we have identified that there will be a time lag while actions are implemented for particular sectors. I also accept that some companies act inadvertently and that we should not penalise them financially straight away; we should also look at other methods, including those we are deploying directly.

[Lord Hannay of Chiswick (CB)]

My Lords, would the Minister widen a little the response he has given so far and say what systems we have for working with the European Union so that our sanctions and their sanctions, which are very similar, are implemented in a properly concerted way and that we help each other to chase up over implementation?

--- Later in debate ---

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, the noble Lord draws important attention to the key issue of co-operation with key partners. Not only are we working very closely with the European Union on the sanctions policy across the piece, but, particularly in light of Russia’s illegal war on Ukraine, we are working hand in glove with the European Union, as well as US partners and others, to ensure the consistency of application, so that all jurisdictions reflect the same types of sanctions applied to close those loopholes. As I have said before, if an individual or organisation is sanctioned either in the EU or in the UK and not in the other jurisdiction, there is a direct loophole that needs to be closed.

Occupied Palestinian Territories: Humanitarian Situation

Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon Excerpts

Thursday 9th November 2023 Lords Chamber

[The Minister of State, Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office (Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon) (Con)]

My Lords, I thank both noble Lords. As we know, the situation is desperate for those in Gaza, but we also reflect that it is one month on from the horrendous and abhorrent attacks that took place in Israel, which shook a country built on many pillars, including security, and impacted many communities directly. It is a poignant note to remember.

We see the scale of human suffering in Gaza every day on our screens, and I am obviously in the midst of this. I will seek to answer some of the questions asked and issues raised in the time allocated, but I assure both noble Lords that we will continue to update the House regularly. I pay tribute to my right honourable friend the Development Minister for the proactive Statement, and for support on many issues. We continue to brief colleagues. I welcome the opportunity to brief Members of His Majesty’s Official Front Bench in my office and will continue to update them.

I myself visited Israel recently. I also visited the West Bank, so I will reflect on that. The noble Lord, Lord Purvis, asked who was attending the Paris conference. The Second Permanent Under-Secretary, Nick Dyer, is in attendance there; the Foreign Secretary is returning from the G7 meeting, which I will come on to.

Of course, we endorse the Safe Schools Declaration; I personally championed it, and it is important that we do not lose sight of it. However, there are key priorities that we are focused on, which the noble Lord, Lord Collins, addressed, specifically the humanitarian issue of access. I agree with the noble Lord, Lord Purvis, that ultimately, whatever is asked for—the pauses, the cessation of hostilities—no conflict ends until there is a ceasefire. We need to ensure that we build in the conditionalities, safeties and securities that are required to allow that humanitarian access to happen.

The noble Lord, Lord Collins, asked about Kerem Shalom. I have been involved quite directly in this during my conversations in Israel, and we need to really be concerned. Everyone points to the Rafah border crossing, but anyone who knows its operation knows that it was not the main crossing point. There are limitations at the Rafah crossing, so we are working with the Israeli authorities on the Kerem Shalom crossing in particular, and with other key partners. A number of announcements were made by Gulf partners, for example. I asked directly about some of the work done on our co-ordination on the ground, particularly in Gaza, so that we can also see what other partners are doing and support them. This needs to be a co-ordinated effort.

The shock and challenge being met by Israel was also very much at their hearts when I went to the West Bank. I commend the Palestinian Authority for condemning Hamas’ abhorrent actions. As I said, we must frame our discussions from a UK perspective—that we regard Hamas as a terrorist organisation. Hamas is not the future for the Gaza Strip. It is not the future for the Palestinian people. It is not a partner for peace. We need to stress that at each and every step. In doing so, we are supporting the Palestinian Authority on key issues, including the release of funds to ensure its sustainability. That was a key priority in my discussions with the Israeli interlocutors when I visited.

I will share information with noble Lords without going into a great deal of detail. On the issue of hostages, for example, the noble Lord, Lord Collins, will appreciate that we are in quite sensitive discussions and negotiations. I cannot say any more than that, but we are working to do our utmost. We have seen a large number of British nationals, more than 150, leave Gaza. A number—again, I will not go into detail—are currently still in Gaza, but I assure the noble Lords, Lord Purvis and Lord Collins, that we are working on that issue as a priority. I am personally engaging with it at the highest level, as is my right honourable friend the Foreign Secretary. Indeed, the Prime Minister is engaging with many issues at the highest level, including in his meetings with President Abbas and Prime Minister Netanyahu.

I share the feelings of the noble Lord, Lord Collins: who cannot do so, when you turn on your TV screen and see, as a father of three, the devastation being inflicted on ordinary civilian Palestinians in Gaza? We want to bring their suffering to an end. They are not the ones who committed these abhorrent attacks. I was quite direct with our friends and partners. I agree totally with my right honourable friend Andrew Mitchell that, as a friend, partner and ally to Israel, we are of course communicating quite directly, but we are also ensuring that on issues such as IHL, they also recognise their responsibility. They are a state and must take that responsibility; they recognise that fully and I assure noble Lords that we will continue to stress that upon them. When you are a friend and partner to a country, that also means that you deliver quite direct and candid messages. There are many in Israel who recognise that a sustainable peace in the region, the cessation of hostilities and ultimately, the realisation of stability, security, peace and justice for all can only be reached through the pathway to the two-state solution that we all continue to strive for.

The noble Lord, Lord Collins, asked about the West Bank. It was part of my discussions in the West Bank and with the Israeli Government. We have seen that more than 155 people have died through settler violence, including 45 children. That echoes the point made by the noble Lord. That is why my right honourable friend the Development Minister also reiterated that there is no blank cheque. No country would offer a friend or a partner, whoever that friend or partner might be, a blank cheque, but our friendship and relationship with Israel means that we are able to highlight these issues. Reining in settler violence was a key focus of my engagement and that of the Foreign Secretary, and it continues to be the case.

Noble Lords will have seen the level of diplomatic engagement from day one, and that continues. I have just returned from Morocco, which is chair of the Arab League. I was there for a few hours to ensure that the meeting taking place there this week reflects that the UK is playing a direct role. My right honourable friend the Foreign Secretary, on his way back from the G7, is in the region engaging on this very issue.

On what happens next, we are working with key partners in the region. Allocations are already being made. The noble Lord, Lord Purvis, asked about UNRWA. We are now at £57 million and looking at additional funding. We also need to ensure that the funding that is getting through is delivered in a secure and sustainable manner to those who need it and is in no way being taken for other purposes. The rigid process we need to follow currently is not enough. There were 500 to 600 trucks a day going into Gaza before the conflict. We need that sustained, and that must be a first priority.

Ultimately, we will achieve peace and security only when it is peace and security for all people. Our relationship with Israel and the Palestinian Authority and our friendships with near neighbours also lends itself. That the situations in Lebanon and the wider Gulf should not escalate remains part of our key priorities. I share with both noble Lords the shocking statistic—it should not be a statistic: real lives are being lost—that more than 90 UNRWA staff have lost their lives, as well as 73 other UN agency staff elsewhere in the world. That puts the nature of this conflict into perspective.

[Lord Ricketts (CB)]

My Lords, I commend the Minister for the huge effort he is putting into efforts to reduce the tension, as have other Ministers. I also support the Government on humanitarian pauses, which I believe is the best and only practical first step. The Minister will be aware that Mr Netanyahu has spoken about Israel retaining overall security responsibility for Gaza when the fighting stops. Does he understand that also to mean that Israel will therefore be responsible for humanitarian efforts and for restoring basic services to Gaza, such as health, education and welfare, and for reconstruction? These are massive tasks. If not Israel, who will administer Gaza in the interests of the people of Gaza when the fighting is over?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

I recognise and reflect on some of the comments the noble Lord has made from his insight and experience on this issue. I agree with him. You can have the noble intent of a ceasefire. Ultimately, in any conflict that is where we should be aiming. We are having a structured response to ensure that we deliver what we can. I am sure noble Lords have followed the progress being made even as I speak on this issue.

On who governs Gaza, that is an active discussion in which we are involved. It has been very clear, as has Antony Blinken, that this is not Gaza first. A complete settlement for the Palestinian people needs to happen. It means that reoccupation is not an option. While this operation persists, we are talking directly. It is not just us; the US, in particular, and other key partners are delivering those messages. We are seized of this and are working with key partners on the immediate priorities of ensuring that aid goes through, that people get out and that we create spaces for humanitarian aid to be delivered. The second priority is the interim period. That is why we are working on boosting and supporting the Palestinian Authority to ensure that n there is Palestinian Authority oversight supported by all key partners, including many Arab states. The noble Lord will know how complex this is, but I assure him that we are treating this as a priority.

[Lord Pickles (Con)]

My Lords, I draw attention to my interests in the register, particularly those related to friendship with Israel. Last week in Washington, I saw the full, unexpurgated photographs of the murder of children. I do not think I will ever lose from my mind the sight of those burned corpses. We should not forget that Hamas has consistently oppressed the people of Gaza. Prior to the 7 October assaults, it destroyed water pipelines and electricity. That is one reason why children are drinking dirty water now. It is stockpiling 760,000 litres of fuel. That is one reason why hospitals are running short of power. Earlier this week, it attempted to smuggle a non-medical oxygen compressor during the aid convoy. What are we doing to ensure that the aid we are supplying, which is so desperately needed, is going into the hands not of the corrupt terrorists but of the people of Gaza?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

Just a point of reflection: when I was in Israel, I too saw the shock and some of the images, the videos of ordinary Israelis who were attacked during the terror attack. Equally, I was in the West Bank: we see the tragic nature of what conflict brings when we see children being buried under rubble. That means that we must be seen to be acting in a co-ordinated way. There is no option. We need now to use this extremely dark cloud over the Middle East to ensure that we get focus and pull out all the stops to ensure that there can be lasting and sustainable peace. I have already said what the Government’s vision is to ensure that happens.

On my noble friend’s point, and I recognise it, we are working directly with the Israeli authorities. He will be aware that aid going through Rafah is being co-ordinated by the Egyptians and the Israeli authorities to ensure that there is no smuggling, as the noble Lord rightly pointed out, of items. The noble Lord, Lord Collins, asked about fuel. We are seeing how we can create conditions for fuel to be delivered efficiently and effectively. We are talking to the Israelis about that. The Israelis’ checks and balances ensure that it is delivered through the agencies we are working with on the ground to the people who need it most.

[Baroness Blackstone (Lab)]

My Lords, I welcome many aspects of the Statement and that at last the Government are properly acknowledging the calamitous effects of the Israeli bombardment on Palestinian civilians in Gaza. I regret that the Statement makes no reference to the terrible toll on children, not just the many deaths and the serious injuries but the trauma they are suffering which will affect their lives for ever. Does the Minister agree with UN Under-Secretary Martin Griffiths that a war crime is being committed by the Israeli Government in Gaza? Does he also accept that far more pressure needs to be exerted on the Government of Israel, who for more than a week have resisted the call by the US and many others for humanitarian pauses? Can he tell the House how long the pauses need to be and how many are needed for there truly to be an effective and lasting impact on what is happening in Gaza?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, I listened very carefully to what the noble Baroness said. I do not think in any Statement, or indeed in subsequent questions, such as we are doing now, that we have in any way underplayed any conflict, and this is particularly about the impact on children and children’s lives. We see it, we hear it directly and we are focused on ensuring that children are provided that glimmer of hope, but we are far from that point right now. That is why it is important that we engage directly. I talked about the additional crossing at Kerem Shalom. That is needed to allow the level of support that is currently needed because again I stress that Rafah was not the primary route for delivering humanitarian support to Gaza.

The impact on children is primary in our minds. Ensuring that we mitigate that is at the forefront of our discussions with our Israeli partners. The noble Baroness asked about the timeline. That is why we have experts deployed in Rafah right now. We have teams deployed in Jerusalem in Israel and in Rafah to ensure that the expertise, in terms of both logistics and the time needed, is amplified.

We are working directly with the likes of Martin Griffiths and others within the UN because of the time needed, for example, to establish a field hospital or to access a particular level of support for an existing facility. A cessation is required to allow time for that to be delivered. This is a matter not of minutes but of effective, well-managed and secured pauses so that delivery of aid can be sustained. I emphasise that, once it starts, it has to be sustainable.

[Lord Campbell of Pittenweem (LD)]

My Lords, the Statement quite properly recognises the need for Israel to be proportionate in its response, but the law provides no definition of “proportionate”. Might I suggest a practical definition in the context of what we are discussing? The methods must be proportionate, but so too must be the outcomes of these methods. Particularly with regard to the second of these, are the Government satisfied that Israel is fulfilling its obligation?

--- Later in debate ---

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

I agree with the noble Lord about the issue of us reminding Israel of its responsibilities under IHL. I have said a number of times in public statements that we need to unpack it. It is not just a label; there are conditions and quite specific elements. This includes the forceful movement of people, for example. We are focused on that. The issue of how Israel is currently operating is also important. It is important to remind Israel of its obligations. I come back to a point I made in response to a question from the noble Lord, Lord Purvis. Israel is a state; in its operation it has obligations that it needs to stand by. Our job, as a friend and partner, is to work with Israel to ensure that those obligations are at the forefront of its operations.

I do not deny for a moment that the human cost of this conflict is immense. It is shocking to look at what happened on 7 October and to see the subsequent loss of life in Gaza currently. We have also seen what is happening in the West Bank. That is why we must focus on ensuring that contagion is prevented. The loss of life—every life, irrespective of who it is, whether Israeli, Arab, Christian, Muslim or Jewish, mother or child—matters. Every innocent life matters, and we are focused on that.

[The Lord Bishop of Gloucester]

My Lords, I too thank the Minister for all he has said and all he is doing. As we have heard, international humanitarian law exists to protect humanity at times of conflict and to shield us from acts of barbarism. In very different ways, as we have heard, both sides continue to flout that law; it is shocking. I want to return to the situation in the West Bank and east Jerusalem. Does the Minister agree that the rising settler violence and movement restrictions are a matter of real concern, in terms not only of individuals killed but of families displaced and the undermining of UNRWA’s ability to deliver much-needed humanitarian support there? The reports we are receiving from the Anglican diocese in Jerusalem indicate a perilous situation, and one that is going to worsen if steps are not taken to uphold the rule of law.

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, I thank the right reverend Prelate. The insight of the faith communities is extremely important. The right reverend Prelate will know the personal prioritisation I give to this issue. Together with the political dialogue and the political track, we must ensure that communities are fully immersed. Ultimately, it is communities that deliver the outcomes.

The right reverend Prelate may be aware that I met my dear friend Archbishop Hosam when I visited Jerusalem, along with other Christian leaders. I have also engaged with other faith leaders. It is important that we keep the strength of what community and faith bring. I have visited Jerusalem on many occasions, and it was very sad for me that the silence of Jerusalem was deafening.

It is important that we once again look at how communities are working together. Faith leaders, particularly in the Holy Land, have a key role in ensuring that we return to that vision of sustainable peace. Let us not forget that in Israel 21% of the population is Arab; it is Christian and Muslim. We have very fine examples of how communities are working together. I have said it before and I will say it again: the exemplary example of what we see in Haifa is demonstrable. I have always said—I stand by this, and I challenge anyone to say it—that, even with the challenges in our country today, our country and any country is judged by the strength of its communities and the resilience and cohesion they bring. By God, we have challenges, but working together is how we solve them.

[Baroness Bennett of Manor Castle (GP)]

My Lords, to follow the evidence presented by the right reverend Prelate, this morning I received a message from a Medical Aid for Palestinians worker in Gaza, who for safety reasons I will not name. She said, “This work is not about humanitarian aid any more. It is about where to get wood for fire in order to cook. It is about water queues, bread queues and how long the walk is in search of water or bread. Our work and advocacy are centred on dignity for Palestinians, and there is no dignity”. Many Members of your Lordships’ House have spoken about the aid workers from many different groups who are struggling so hard to survive themselves and support people in Gaza. Does the Minister agree with me that they cannot do humanitarian work unless there is a ceasefire, as was called for last night in a vote in the Senedd?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, I agree with the noble Baroness about the phenomenal role that aid workers, agencies and doctors are playing on the ground. I know that some British doctors are still serving in the hospitals under such intense pressures; I pay tribute to them. There are doctors lining up to go into Gaza to provide support.

I also agree with the noble Baroness that we need to take stock of the human tragedy unfolding in Gaza. It is for us all not just to contemplate but to act upon. That is why the nature of the cessation required needs to ensure that support can get in, but it must also be done in a safe and secure manner. If we look at the example of the field facilities we are discussing with partners, including field hospitals within Gaza, they must satisfy the issues of security for Israel and for those working there. The access and supply routes should be equally secured. Those are some of the key priorities we are currently working on.

[Baroness Deech (CB)]

My Lords, I call on the Minister to make his first port of call the international Red Cross, whose job it is to take care of hostages. If it gets out the hostages and Hamas comes out from hiding behind civilians, the temperature will cool. It is also the job of the surrounding Middle East countries—among the richest countries in the world—to come to the aid of the Palestinians, not least through Egypt opening the border. But first, the hostages.

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, I assure the noble Baroness—I have said this before about the hostages—that we are working with many of the countries she highlights. Qatar, for example, as the noble Baroness will know, is playing a key role in this respect. That is a key focus for us in our priorities. There are three areas. We want those who need to leave Gaza to leave, the hostages to be released and the aid to go in. Those three things require that we work towards ensuring that the conditions on the ground sustain that. Let me reassure the noble Baroness, in terms of not just the hostage release but the future, that the near neighbours to Israel need to play a role as partners in peace. I can assure the noble Baroness that, from our conversations and the discussions and diplomatic engagement we are having, they are very seized of that priority.

[Lord Grocott (Lab)]

My Lords, sooner or later there will be a ceasefire. The only question is: how many people will get killed between now and when the ceasefire takes place? We all know the pattern after that. It will not end the conflict: there will be a period of quiet and then another flare-up, which we hope will not be as bad as this one. There is no prospect of any peace in this part of the world until the Palestinians have what the Israelis have long had: a state of their own. I want to hear from the Minister an assurance that he will not turn his back, as the rest of the world tends to as soon as the immediate conflict is over, and that he will ensure that the British Government—despairing as they must currently sound about a two-state solution—realise that you cannot have two states when you recognise only one. The Palestinians deserve no less.

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

I can assure the noble Lord. I have been a Minister for a while, but I will share with noble Lords that this is probably one of the most challenging and toughest not only briefs but occasions when I am standing before your Lordships’ House, speaking about what is currently happening and the shocking events in Israel on 7 October. Subsequently, we have seen what is being endured by innocent Palestinian civilians in Gaza—this has to stop. I mentioned this being sustained in my opening comments; I will not turn my back, and I hope that noble Lords will not turn theirs. There will not be a short-term solution; this will require long-term focus. Looking around this Chamber, I am sure that whoever stands in my place in the months and years to come will also reflect the importance of finding a lasting solution—it is not papering over the cracks, as the noble Lord said, because this will erupt again. We need to ensure that terrorist organisations such as Hamas are not in governance positions, which is why we support the Palestinian Authority. Ultimately, as we, the Americans, the Europeans and the Gulf states have said, sustainable peace can be achieved only when there are two states, Israel and Palestine, living side by side—not just independent but ultimately, we hope, learning that coexistence is the way forward.

[Lord Cormack (Con)]

My Lords, we are all grateful to the Minister for how he is handling this, and he has the admiration of the House. We all have to bear in mind that Hamas has ultimate responsibility for every drop of blood shed over the last month, but we also have to remember that Israel is a mature democracy, and it is very important that a mature democracy exercises its power in such a way that the innocent are not massacred.

--- Later in debate ---

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

Suffice it to say that I totally agree with my noble friend. I assure noble Lords that putting humanity at the centre of our approach—in diplomacy, in the support, and in the private and public conversations and statements we are making—is the essence and heart of finding a solution. I have often talked about my considered responses, but I again thank all noble Lords for their considered positions on this important issue.

Polish Jewish Holocaust Victims: Stolen Property

Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon Excerpts

Wednesday 25th October 2023 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Deech]

To ask His Majesty’s Government what is their assessment of progress made at the International Terezin Declaration Conference in November 2022 towards securing from the government of Poland (1) restitution, (2) compensation, or (3) commemoration, of property stolen from Polish Jewish victims of the Holocaust.

[The Minister of State, Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office (Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon) (Con)]

My Lords, it is this Government’s assessment that there has been no progress on these important issues in Poland itself following legislation passed in 2020 which closed the door to any restitution or compensation claims. However, we continue to urge the Polish Government to take steps to ensure that claims are addressed. My noble friend Lord Pickles, the UK Special Envoy for Post-Holocaust Issues, raised this in a meeting with the Polish ambassador on 3 August. He will raise it again during his visit to Poland this week.

[Baroness Deech (CB)]

Continuing the theme of breaches of human rights, Poland is the only modern European country not to fulfil its moral and legal duty in relation to property. I have been asking this question for 14 years: asking the Government to take action on behalf of thousands of dispossessed victims, both Jewish and non-Jewish, and Poland has responded by putting more and more obstacles in the way of claims by legislating against them and even making it an offence to discuss Poland’s involvement—if it was—in the Holocaust. New Prime Minister Tusk promises to restore the rule of law and take Poland forward to liberal democracy, so, rather than just attending conferences with supporters, will the Government reopen direct negotiations with Prime Minister Tusk and raise at the Council of Europe Poland’s human rights failure to honour the obligation to restore property? It is a stain on Poland’s record.

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, the noble Baroness will also recognise, as I did when I was preparing for this particular Question, exactly how her sentiments were similar to my sentiments, in that I have had to respond on a number of occasions in different ministerial portfolios on this question. The new Government are being formed. Obviously, the results are still being taken forward and different parties and alliances are coming together. The clear indication is very much that Mr Tusk may well emerge in forming the new Government. We will of course continue to prioritise it.

I would say to the noble Baroness that it is not just about attending meetings or conferences. The noble Baroness will know of the direct leadership of my noble friend on this issue. We take a strong stand on the issue of property restitution, in line with our unwavering commitment to supporting Holocaust survivors and families, and we will continue to do so in the months and years ahead.

[Lord Collins of Highbury (Lab)]

My Lords, three years ago, the noble Baroness raised the question of the US legislation, and the Minister gave a sort of equivocal reply then. Clearly, this is something that should be reported on a regular basis. I ask the Minister to examine what the US was able to do in 2017, five years ago, and ensure that this Parliament can take up its responsibilities. We should not forget that the declaration requires us to do something; it is not simply a matter left to Poland.

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, equally, the noble Lord will recognise, first of all, that I agree with his sentiments, but the Terezin Declaration was signed by 47 countries. It puts obligations on each country, including us, and I have given assurance again today about the importance of restitution and the United Kingdom Government’s position on this. We will also have a moment of focus next year when we take on the presidency of the IHRA, which will allow us again to prioritise this particular issue. Of course, we look at countries and the legislation they have proposed. Let us not forget also that Poland has signed this declaration. It is of course non-binding: nevertheless, I assure the noble Lord that we are looking at all avenues to see how we can make the case most effectively. One hopes that the new Government in Poland will reflect on their responsibilities again.

[Lord Purvis of Tweed (LD)]

My Lords, I pay tribute to the persistence of the noble Baroness. The Commission for Looted Art in Europe, whose work I commend, has been lobbying very hard for the implementation of the legal agreements that have been made. There has been European Union legislation, which Poland should be held to account to implement. What mechanisms are there when it comes to the United Kingdom, not only for public collections to make sure that they are properly audited, but also the private sector trade, sometimes far too regrettable, in looted goods? What mechanisms are there within the TCA with the European Union that we negotiated that will ensure that there are full audit trails for any goods? When we are negotiating bilateral trade agreements going forward, I have not yet seen any mechanisms in place through which this will be able to be reported on. I am very happy to discuss this separately with trade Ministers, but this surely is an area where there should be no loopholes.

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

I agree with the noble Lord about identifying where we can strengthen our legislation and legislative approach. Also, when it comes to issues of agreements, I will follow that up with our colleagues in the Department for Business and Trade. The noble Lord makes a more general point about how we can hold countries also to their responsibilities. One does hope for this. As I said, it is a non-binding declaration: nevertheless, the countries that have signed up have taken action. When it has come to issues of culture and books—there was a particular issue with the Library—we ourselves as a Government have ensured that those artefacts are fully protected and sustained, and indeed, where we can find true ownership, are returned.

[Lord Grade of Yarmouth (Non-Afl)]

My Lords, after years and years of pressing Polish Administrations to move on this issue, as Poland is the only country that has not in Europe, out of those discussions the Government must have some idea of what objections the Poles have got to acceding to their obligations. I wonder whether the Minister could enlighten the House and tell us what the arguments are that Poland is putting forward and has done over past decades as to why it refuses to accept its obligations.

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, many agreements were signed after the Second World War. Often, different Governments in Poland have sought to point to these issues having been settled. This declaration makes sure that the legacy that remains is kept at the forefront of Governments’ minds; as I said in my Answer to the noble Baroness, Lady Deech, Poland passed legislation to the contrary in 2020. Of course, it remains at the behest of the Polish Government to look at legislation once again. There is a new Government in place and we will certainly once again make the case to them directly.

Israel/Gaza

Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon Excerpts

Tuesday 24th October 2023 Lords Chamber

Moved by

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

That this House takes note of the situation in Israel/Gaza.

[The Minister of State, Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office (Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon) (Con)]

My Lords, the importance and timeliness of this debate is self-evident. The number of speakers is testament to not just the strength of feeling in your Lordships’ House but to the deep insight, wisdom and expertise. I am sure that, over the next few hours, as we listen carefully to each and every contribution, we will hear differing perspectives; we will have differing insights; at times, we will have, I am sure, a divergence of views and opinions. But what defines an effective, strong, resilient and progressive democracy is its openness, its ability to debate in a reasoned and sharing manner, respecting contrarian opinion, and then move forward in the best interests. I know for a fact that noble Lords speaking today will do so from a degree of principled passion on a particular issue. I am sure that today’s debate will also inform the Government, who are navigating this crisis which, as my right honourable friend the Foreign Secretary said, in all my time as a Minister is perhaps—no, not perhaps; it is—the most testing and challenging issue that we face. I am sure that many will reflect that sentiment in their contributions.

I take us back to 7 October. It was a Saturday—Shabbat—and the evening before had changed the trajectory not just of Israel but of many commentators, reporters, Governments and perspectives, as well as the many within Israel whose lives would never be the same. The attacks in Israel on 7 October not only shocked a country, they shocked the world. As His Majesty’s Government have made clear repeatedly, the United Kingdom, at that time and today—I am sure that I speak for all noble Lords—stands with Israel, a nation in mourning.

I am a Muslim by faith, as all noble Lords know, and on hearing of the death of any person, the prayer we recite is:

“Inna Lillahi wa inna ilayhi raji-un”,


simply translated as “To God we belong and to God we return”. When we see the innocent lives taken that day, we pray for those souls. I know that people of all faiths and none were shocked by the inhumanity of the brutal murder of so many innocent people in Israel. Therefore, we should, irrespective of faith, community, belief and religion, condemn unequivocally the terror attacks committed by Hamas against Israel and, indeed, many international citizens. Simply put, these attacks were driven by hatred.

We are also clear—this is important, and I hope that during today’s debate it will echo from this Chamber—that it is Hamas, the proscribed terrorist organisation, that our focus is on. It is Hamas that is responsible for that violence, not the Palestinian people or the Palestinian Authority. It is Hamas that is responsible for those abhorrent acts of terror.

The ramifications of that attack continue to unfold, sadly and tragically, as I stand before your Lordships today. When we look at the sheer scale of the human cost, it is sobering. As I look behind me to noble Lords on my own Benches, and particularly towards the Bishops’ Benches—I am delighted that we are joined by voices today who will speak from a deep insight into the issues of what many of us of Abrahamic faiths term the Holy Land, which is called that for a reason—and then I look opposite me, to my side, to my right and left, and I know that all noble Lords are very much focused on not just that tragedy but the human cost that was suffered. In Israel itself, over 1,400 people were killed. When we reflect on the history of Israel in the last 75 years, we see that this was the most lethal attack against it.

There were some who drew comparisons with the shock and horrors of the Holocaust, yet that was then and this is now, with the brutality of an appalling act of terror. We should not for a moment be distracted. Again, as I look around, I remember the tragic events of 7/7 right here in the UK, as many noble Lords do. We can never allow terror attacks to disrupt the incredible diversity and strength of our nation, which is a united United Kingdom when it comes to issues of terrorism. I pay tribute to many noble Lords across this Chamber who have not only consistently raised their voices but come together in a voice of unity against terror. I hope —indeed, I believe this will be the case—that that voice of unity will again resonate from this Chamber today.

The attacks were both indiscriminate and unconscionable. Those missing come from over 40 countries, including the United Kingdom. I had a meeting just before I came into the Chamber, along with my dear and right honourable friend the Foreign Secretary, James Cleverly. We were with some of the relatives of those who were killed or remain missing—being held hostage in Gaza. I thank them for sharing their important stories, but the significance of their testimonies, as the information is still being shared, also reflected that the youngest person being held hostage is as young as nine months and the eldest of those who shared their testimony about the people being held—the eldest in that incredible group of people who we met—is 93. The pain and unbearable torment they are suffering will, I am sure, stay with them, but it is also, rightly, reflected in the thinking of policymakers. We stand with Israel during its time of challenge and we are working with Israel to support the families who are suffering this pain.

While the picture is extremely bleak, I am sure that all noble Lords will join me in welcoming the release of two hostages in Gaza yesterday. But, as the Prime Minister made clear in his Statement in the other place yesterday, the UK will continue to do everything in its power, working with all our partners, to free those held hostage and to bring those British nationals home. I acknowledge the strong co-operation that we are receiving from key partners, including countries such as Egypt and Qatar, which are playing important roles in this respect.

Since that terror attack, a violent and vicious sequence of events has unfolded that continues to reverberate across the region and further afield. We have seen, as the Prime Minister said only yesterday, 4,000 Palestinian deaths in Gaza, and a growing and already challenging humanitarian catastrophe. Many people, right now, are likely to still be trapped under rubble. Let me be clear—and I hope I speak for every noble Lord, irrespective of whether they are Israeli, Palestinian, Jewish, Muslim, Christian, or of no faith—we, together, mourn the loss of every innocent life, of every faith and nationality.

My right honourable friend the Prime Minister has made clear Israel’s right to defend its borders and people, and to act against terrorism. In doing so, as I am sure noble Lords recognise, both he and my right honourable friend the Foreign Secretary have been engaged directly with Israel, as have I, urging it to take all possible precautions to minimise harm to civilians in Gaza.

I will come to the grave humanitarian situation and the UK response shortly, but first I want to focus on the British nationals caught up in this conflict. Supporting our nationals and providing support to their grieving families is a key priority. I assure noble Lords—many have asked—that diplomatic efforts are under way to free all the hostages; I have referred to a number of cases. The Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office has great expertise; I have seen that working in many ways across the globe over several years. On this occasion again, we will leave no stone unturned in bringing our people back safely. We have facilitated flights for those British nationals wishing to leave Israel, bringing out more than 950 people. We are working with Egypt, Israel and other international partners to ensure that British nationals can leave Gaza safely via the Rafah crossing into Egypt. I can share with noble Lords this afternoon that we have now deployed a UK Border Force team in Egypt, working with our embassy, to help citizens cross as soon as they can. The safety of British nationals will remain our utmost priority and I urge all noble Lords, when they get inquiries or people seeking information, to ask those people to look at our continuously updated travel advice.

British nationals currently in Israel or the Occupied Palestinian Territories, including Gaza, should register their presence via the Foreign Office’s travel advice page. We will then be able to share important updates, including information to help them to leave the country. We will also continue to keep in close contact with British nationals in Gaza and update them on the latest status of the Rafah crossing.

Many noble Lords have said to me privately—it was noted in the repeat of the Statement by my noble friend the Lord Privy Seal yesterday—that this tragic act of terror and the continuing situation in Gaza fuel further instability and violence across the region. The outbreak of protests in several cities reflects how strongly people feel about the conflict.

Before I set out the actions the UK is taking, I make it absolutely clear that we are not only acutely aware of the contagious nature of this conflict but acting in this respect. We are aware, for example, that violence in the West Bank is rising. This year has become the bloodiest for West Bank violence since UN records began in 2005. As I said earlier, and I am sure we will hear it repeated time and again in the debate today, all loss of civilian life is tragic, but it is also avoidable.

I turn to the specific action that the United Kingdom Government are taking. While support to British nationals remains our priority, and rightly so, there are, as the Prime Minister set out, three distinct areas where the UK is helping to shape wider events.

First, we are redoubling our work with the international community to prevent escalation in the region and further threats against Israel. As the Prime Minister has said, in Israel’s fight against Hamas, we are of course with Israel. But, importantly, hope and humanity must win out against the scourge of terrorism, aggression and hate. We will work to rescue our hostages, to deter further incursions and to support Israel as it seeks to do so from Hamas, and, importantly, to strengthen security for the longer term.

I turn to some of the assets we have deployed, because it is important that we clarify that position as well. We have deployed a significant package of support to the eastern Mediterranean, including two Royal Navy ships, RAF surveillance aircraft and a company of Royal Marines. We are bolstering our forces in Cyprus and across the region. However, I make it clear to your Lordships’ House that the Royal Navy ships and personnel are not being sent there to fight. We are there to support the humanitarian response and prevent the outbreak of a regional conflict.

Intensive diplomatic engagement is also ongoing since those attacks on 7 October, as I know personally as the Minister for the Middle East. My right honourable friends the Prime Minister and the Foreign Secretary have both visited Israel and, importantly, the wider region. They took with them a message of support for and solidarity with the whole region, in unification against terrorism and in doing all we can, with the different equities possessed by different countries, to avoid a wider regional conflict. They remain, as I do, in close daily contact with counterparts across the Middle East and beyond. Earlier today, for example, I had a very constructive call with the Deputy Foreign Minister of Kuwait. The Foreign Secretary has spoken to many of his peers on his travels, which have taken him to many parts of the Gulf and the Middle East.

Since the outbreak of the conflict, I have engaged with regional counterparts from Israel, the Palestinian Authority, Egypt, the United Arab Emirates, the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia, Bahrain, Morocco, Tunisia, Algeria and the UN—all coming together to seek to prevent regional escalation, while also focused on the humanitarian situation in Gaza.

Last Saturday, the Foreign Secretary and I attended the Cairo peace summit, at which we reiterated the need for us all to work together to prevent instability engulfing the region and claiming yet more lives. Whatever perspective different countries brought, all were focused on the importance of peace, security and stability in the region, and a collective effort towards, ultimately, a two-state solution of Israel and Palestine living side by side in peace and security. Our partners in the region have welcomed our role and believe that we have a constructive and important role to play in preventing further escalation, and we will continue to do so.

We have also made it clear in these engagements that all precautions must be taken to minimise, limit and mitigate against harm to civilians in Gaza, and to allow safe and unhindered humanitarian access. It is imperative that the window for relocation remains open and, if civilians are asked to relocate, they do so voluntarily and safely. Yet the challenges remain immense.

Secondly, we are providing humanitarian aid directly to the Palestinian people. The opening of the Rafah crossing this weekend to allow vital humanitarian aid into Gaza is testament to the power of diplomacy. It may seem—and it is—a small symbol, but it shows the art of the possible. The opening of the Rafah crossing was no small feat and required a diplomatic push from many countries. So far, more than 50 trucks containing aid have now crossed the border, but I would be the first to say that it is not enough. It is imperative that this continues and increases substantially if it is to have the desired impact of saving the lives of Palestinians in Gaza.

We have been clear also that Hamas is a terrorist organisation which, as we have seen, neither speaks for nor acts in the interests of the Palestinian people. It does not stand for the future that Palestinians want or desire. The conflict is exacerbating a situation that is already dire: six out of 10 Gazans were in need of humanitarian assistance before Hamas attacked Israel. But now, a greater humanitarian crisis is unfolding before us.

On 16 October, the Prime Minister announced £10 million in humanitarian funding to help civilians in Gaza and, as noble Lords will have heard, my right honourable friend announced an additional £20 million yesterday, more than doubling our previous support to the Palestinian people. That funding will provide essential relief items, including food, water and emergency shelter, depending on needs on the ground. The uplift increases our aid commitment for the Occupied Palestinian Territories from £27 million to £57 million this year. This makes the UK one of the largest bilateral donors in this current humanitarian crisis.

I know that some noble Lords may express concern, as others have in the other place, but I assure them that all UK aid undergoes rigorous oversight, and multiple safeguards are in place to prevent UK funding from going to Hamas. Any UK assistance will be channelled through trusted partners, including key UN agencies, which have been playing an important role. As I said—I underline this important point—it is because of the strength of our partnership and relationship with Israel that we can make the case to ensure that it takes every possible precaution to minimise civilian casualties. As such, we welcome the commitment of the Israeli president, President Herzog, who has vowed that Israel’s armed forces will operate in accordance with international law.

However, we cannot equate the two: through our lens in this country, Hamas is, by definition, a terrorist organisation. We must have moral clarity when we approach these issues. Yes, Israel is defending its borders and citizens, but, as a state, our role, as a friend and partner, is to work with Israel on the importance of acting within international humanitarian law and of alleviating the suffering of innocent civilians.

Thirdly, as my right honourable friend the Prime Minister said, we are working hard to sustain the long-term prospects of peace and stability in the region. The Prime Minister has spoken to the Israeli Prime Minister and the Palestinian president. The UK’s message has been clear: we must work together to chart a way through this particularly challenging and trying period for Israelis and Palestinians. The UK wants to see Israelis and Palestinians living safely and securely in peace. I have visited the region numerous times, and I know that many within Israel and the Occupied Palestinian Territories have that desire for peace and stability.

I reiterate what the Prime Minister said only yesterday: the United Kingdom and this Government remain committed to making progress towards a two-state solution, for which the need is more acute now than ever. The UK’s long-standing position has been clear: yes, we support a negotiated settlement, leading to a safe and secure Israel living alongside a viable and sovereign Palestinian state. I would go further: ultimately, as they are close neighbours, there will inevitably be an interdependency between people—that is an important vision to keep in mind. I accept that it may be difficult to look at that vision and opportunity right now, but we cannot allow terror and hate to win and to kill the prospects for this two-state solution and, importantly, for peace, security, normalisation and stability in the region.

As the Prime Minister also said yesterday, we must keep alive that vision of a better future against those who seek to destroy it. We cannot, at home or abroad, allow terrorism to divide us or to prevail—it cannot prevail.

We stand with Israel as it seeks to restore security to its borders, a country which was shocked to its core. As I said, that shock was not limited to Israel or to its people. It is a shock we all shared: the immediate shock of those innocent lives destroyed, the hostages taken, but also, as we have seen now, the terrible and continuing deeper suffering of the Palestinian people. Let us be clear, and many Israelis in Israel, that the Palestinian people are not the enemy: terrorists are, and the people who can be termed as such.

I assure noble Lords of my good offices and those of the Foreign Secretary and the Prime Minister and indeed across government. We will continue to work tirelessly on the four strands that my right honourable friend the Prime Minister has laid out. First, we are supporting British nationals and their families affected by these events, both in Israel and Gaza. Secondly, we are working to prevent escalation in the region and further threats against Israel. Thirdly, we are providing humanitarian aid to the Palestinian people. Finally—probably one of the most challenging issues that we face—we are striving to sustain the long-term prospects of peace, stability and security in the region.

It sometimes takes a shock to focus minds. This was an attack of terror on an ally of the United Kingdom, and therefore it is right that the United Kingdom continues to stand shoulder to shoulder with Israel at this important time in its history. However, we are at a crossroads. There is an opportunity here. As I said right at the start, I know that many noble Lords across your Lordships’ House possess incredible insight and wisdom and have experienced themselves the issues of mediation and conflict resolution. Therefore, I assure noble Lords, as I have already done with a number, that I seek their insights, not just today in your Lordships’ House but on how we can work together and focus on the equities we possess. Irrespective of whether that person is currently in Gaza, in the West Bank, or in Israel, the message that must go to them is one of hope. That hope means that hate will not prevail.

--- Later in debate ---

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, I first thank all noble Lords for their contributions—strong, focused, passionate, thoughtful, insightful, principled and at times emotional. But one thing was clear: these were expert insights from various perspectives. As I said in my introduction, there are some uniform and united messages that leave no doubt about the unity of your Lordships’ House this evening. I reflect the contribution of the noble Lord, Lord Collins, in saying that, when it comes to important issues, such as how we stand against terror and those who seek to divide us, His Majesty’s Government, the Opposition, representatives of other parties and individual Peers in your Lordships’ House are very much at one.

I say to the noble Baroness, Lady Deech, yehi zichra baruch—may their memory be a blessing. We join her and many other families who have sadly and tragically been impacted. Every life lost on this issue is a tragedy. As I said in my opening remarks, we stand united with Israel as it seeks to strengthen its response and to ensure that it secures its citizens, for security is the first duty of any responsible Government.

I also note the incredibly valuable and insightful contribution by the most reverend Primate the Archbishop of Canterbury. I know I speak for the whole House when I say to him that, when we saw the tragedy unfold at the Al-Ahli Arab Hospital, we all recognised its particular link to the Anglican communion. Our sincere condolences go to all involved with that institution.

The ramifications of Hamas’s attack on Israel which, as we have heard from many noble Lords, was a terrorist attack, continue to unfold. As I said in my opening remarks, many in Israel, including from within, made comparisons to the Holocaust. While the world has moved on—this is 2023—the brutality of that appalling act of terror, which many noble Lords talked about, resonates.

The noble Lord, Lord Austin, talked of survivor testimony and many noble Lords talked of the importance of standing strong in the face of the challenge and the terrorism of Hamas. I associate myself with the thoughtful comments and great expertise shown by the noble Lords, Lord Turnberg, Lord Reid and Lord Bilimoria, all of whom talked about the Hamas threat, as did the noble Lord, Lord McCrea.

I will be very clear. I have noted and will come on to the issue of a ceasefire. A ceasefire is important for both sides, but when dealing with an organisation that is terrorist in its ideology—scratching the surface, comparisons were made to Daesh this evening; and I have visited parts of the region, including Iraq—it might at times be defeated on the battlefield or in the theatre, but the perverse ideology of such organisations remains. We should never lose sight of this. Hamas’s reason for being is the destruction of Israel. Its actions, terror, division and hate are reflected in what it did to innocent civilians.

Again, there was unity on the important issue of the taking of hostages, irrespective of the noble Lord contributing. The clear, unequivocal message from your Lordships’ debate this evening is: release them now and release them unconditionally.

When I met some of the families directly impacted, it affected me as a father. The youngest child of one family is nine months old; the oldest member of that family is 93. That shows the depravity of the organisation that is Hamas. I commend all noble Lords, irrespective of the strength of the views and emotions they expressed; we are at one on this issue.

I pay tribute to the noble Lord, Lord Palmer, and to my noble friend Lord Howard for his illustration of the strength of Israel. He talked about the diversity in its football team. My noble friend Lord Polak reminded noble Lords that I am a Liverpool fan, as is my noble friend Lord Howard.

I will share a personal anecdote. When those attacks happened, the first call I received was from the Israeli ambassador. Very soon that morning, calls started rapidly coming in. Because of a family bereavement, my wife was not there. I was on paternal duties as well. I was standing on the side of a hockey pitch watching my son in his debut performance as a goalkeeper. As I watched my son play, the gravity of the unfolding situation dawned on me. Therefore, when my noble friend Lord Polak talked of that young child in his Liverpool shirt, I wiped a tear from my eye—I mean that sincerely. That could have been my nine year-old, although he would have been wearing a Tottenham shirt; I am not quite sure how that happened.

The importance of life and of the dignity of life should not be lost. When the attacks happened I made three calls, though not deliberately to show how faith matters to me personally. One of the first was to my noble friend Lord Polak, because I knew he was in Jerusalem. The second call was to Imam Sharif Odeh in Haifa; I have been in discussion with him this evening. Tomorrow he is hosting people, including the Mayor of Haifa, who are all of different religions— Muslim, Christian and Jewish together to ensure a unity of response from the community. It is important to recognise that 20% of the population of the State of Israel are non-Jewish—Israeli Arabs made up of Christians and Muslims. As several noble Lords pointed out, Jerusalem is the Holy City, the Holy Land that brings together these three Abrahamic faiths. The poignancy of the contribution from the most reverend Primate is not just acknowledged but recognised for the strength of the Spiritual Benches and their importance to your Lordships’ House.

The noble Lord, Lord Pannick, talked in a strong, principled manner. When I am dealing with him on legislation, I often have to look at the technicalities of the law. I admit this with a high degree of trepidation because I know how the noble Lord—my dear friend David, if I may say that—operates. I was humbled by his gracious invitation to his home. I remember that evening very well. This evening he shared with us his abhorrence of Hamas’s ideology. Other noble Lords referred to it, including my noble friend Lady Warsi.

Let me make it absolutely clear: this organisation seeks not just to misrepresent but to hijack a noble faith. Its actions and ideology are nothing to do with the faith that I, and several other noble Lords who have spoken today, follow. It is no kind of religious ideology. It is the hijacking of a noble faith. But it is equally important that, when we see acts of terror—irrespective of who the perpetrators and victims are—we call these out quite directly. This debate has been reflective of that issue. Other noble Lords, including my noble friend Lord Gold and the noble Lord, Lord McCrea, mentioned the absolute abhorrence of the Hamas ideology.

It is interesting that we have had debates on anti-Semitism and anti-Muslim hatred, and I will come on to the community response. But what is it when you as a Muslim stand up for the Jewish community and you receive hate? How do we describe that? Is that anti-Muslim hatred or is that anti-Semitism? I would say it is a vile combination of both. That is also something many noble Lords in this Chamber and honourable and right honourable Members of the other place have to face. However, it is absolutely essential that we make our views even clearer. We should not be cowed in any sense.

The noble Baroness, Lady Uddin, talked about the Government. I always say, and I will defend this to the hilt, that of course we have issues and challenges in the United Kingdom but this country—our country—is a rich tapestry of communities, people and faiths. Its diversity is its strength. We must not just challenge those who seek to divide but tell them absolutely straight that they are wrong, that we are united, and that their perverse ideology will be defeated. That has to be clear in everything we do.

We mourn the loss of every innocent life in this tragic conflict. The picture changes with each hour. I have been sitting here, as all noble Lords have, for several hours, being constantly updated about the current situation in Israel and Gaza. As I said earlier, the Prime Minister has said very clearly that, notwithstanding the challenges and issues we face, we will work distinctly on the four key pillars.

The noble Lord, Lord Alderdice, talked about the warning of conflicts. We should look at that very carefully. It is shocking that, depending on how you define conflict, anything between 40 and 60 conflicts are raging across the world in 2023. The issue of contagion of this conflict is very real. We need to ensure that we understand that our relationship, friendship and alliance, and the strength of unity we have with Israel, also means that we have a valued position. When we talk with various Israeli interlocuters, as my right honourable friends the Prime Minister and the Foreign Secretary and I have done, it is not just a gesture of diplomacy; they listen. Why? Because we stand with them at this time of great challenge. I am appreciative of His Majesty’s Opposition and the Liberal Democrat Benches, and in this House the Cross Benches, for their strong united stand in this case.

I turn to some of the specifics on the hostages. All noble Lords talked of the need to release them, and not just the British nationals. I was with the Foreign Secretary, who made it absolutely clear that while of course we defend British interests and look towards British hostages, this is about every innocent person taken, irrespective of whether they are a man, woman or child and irrespective of age or nation. We want all hostages released. That is the message.

My noble friend Lord Howard talked about Qatar, as did the noble Lord, Lord Palmer, and several other noble Lords. I assure noble Lords that we are talking to Qatar and that Egypt is also playing an important role. I join others in commending the role of the ICRC and the Red Crescent, which are playing important bridging roles. I assure my noble friend Lord Leigh that this is not a one-off. We are in regular contact with these key players to ensure that those with influence exert that influence and make sure that it is counted. We should not in any way cease our activities, and I will continue to update your Lordships’ House in this respect.

The noble Lord, Lord Collins, asked about British nationals. I can share that all British nationals who have registered and want to leave Israel on government flights have been allocated seats. We are also working on the very difficult and fluid situation in Gaza. I talked about the 900 people we brought back from Israel to the UK. Commercial flights operate and continue to operate from Tel Aviv, but we are cognisant of our wider responsibilities and that is why we changed the travel advice for Lebanon. We also introduced, in advance of the challenges we are currently seeing on the northern border of Israel and the southern border of Lebanon, a register of presence to ensure that those who are in-country can register. I assure noble Lords we are seized of this.

Many noble Lords have talked about the issue of contagion, including my noble friend Lord Sterling and the noble Lord, Lord Stevens. I always saw him as coming from a health perspective, so to see him as an insightful foreign policy expert is very welcome; I am sure there will be many debates in this respect. I welcome both his challenge to the Government and his contribution. The noble Lord, Lord Mendelsohn, also mentioned it—I almost called him my noble friend because we have worked on many initiatives together—as did the noble Lord, Lord Morrow, and others.

Let me be very clear: we want this conflict to end tomorrow, but that needs Hamas to stop throwing rockets into Israel and to stop holding innocent hostages. We are true to our word, standing up and providing that humanitarian lifeline. Yes, I pay tribute to our friends and partners, the United States and Egypt, in the negotiation, but I know for a fact that this is not some media policy. Your Lordships have it on record from the Minister for the Middle East about the diplomacy and the leadership shown by my right honourable friends the Prime Minister and the Foreign Secretary, who were in the region at the same time—there was almost a baton exchange. When I travelled to Cairo last Saturday, that reflected this strength; the messaging to key partners was candid. I hope noble Lords will recognise that the United Kingdom Government are taking our responsibilities in this respect very seriously.

The issue that the noble Baroness, Lady Smith, raised about ensuring that we prevent wider conflict is very much at the forefront of our mind. We are engaging directly. The noble Lord, Lord Collins, raised specific issues. Let us be clear: over the course of the weekend, as the Pentagon reported, there was an attack by Iraqi militia on a US base. There should not in any way be a decrease in vigilance; this is about increased vigilance. We also know that Bashar al-Assad is now in a different place from where he was before, even six or 12 months ago, so we need to be very clear about the issue of contagion, whether that is Lebanon or the situation in Iraq. I assure the noble Lord, Lord Collins, that we are engaging directly with the Iraqi Government in this respect. Over the last few days I have been in touch directly with the Foreign Minister of Iraq.

We will continue to be vigilant. The Kingdom of Saudi Arabia has played its role, but there was also an attempt—it was symbolic but nevertheless a real threat—coming from the Houthis. We had seen some real progress being made on the issues in Yemen, but it was Houthi drones pointed towards Israel that were recently shot down, so it is important that we stay vigilant in this respect.

We are also intensifying diplomatic engagement guided at the principle of standing with Israel. As I said, we want Hamas to give back the hostages, stop its incursions and look towards security for the longer term.

Thirdly, we are providing humanitarian aid to the Palestinians now. I pay tribute to the IDF soldier Yosef, who the most reverend Primate mentioned. I also recognise the points made by my noble friend Lady Morris about the incredible bravery of so many workers working for NGOs within both Israel and the Palestinian Territories, who play a vital role. I acknowledge the important role of the United Nations and the UNRWA teams. I spoke directly to the Secretary-General and commend his visit to the Gaza border. It is important that we recognise that senior members of the UN team, including Secretary-General Guterres, Rosemary DiCarlo and Martin Griffiths, were also in attendance at the Cairo meeting.

The most reverend Primate asked specifically about our support for the reconstruction of hospitals and other parts of Gaza. We are committed to that. We have already seen my right honourable friend increase funding over the last few weeks. I remember doubling the funding at the UN high-level week—which was only in September but seems like a long time ago now—and our funding for this year now stands at £57 million. I assure the noble Lord, Lord Stevens, that we have made all efforts to mitigate any misdirection of aid to ensure that it reaches the most needy and vulnerable and those for whom it is intended. We therefore work with trusted partners, including UN agencies and other key international NGOs, to ensure that we can fulfil that obligation.

We will continue to assess the situation on the ground and, as I said earlier, we will continue to update noble Lords in that respect. The noble Baronesses, Lady Janke and Lady Blackstone, asked about the distribution of aid. We are working with key partners. With regard to protecting some of those partners, I am sometimes reluctant in conflict zones to name them, but UK aid specifically has started arriving; I believe the first plane arrived yesterday. We want to keep the Rafah crossing open. I say quite directly to the noble Lord, Lord Collins, that I said right at the outset that it is good that we have started some trucks going in but that is not enough to sustain the innocent civilians who are currently being used in Gaza by Hamas. So funding has been delivered through key partners, and of course we are closely monitoring its delivery.

The noble Baroness Lady Ramsay, my noble friend Lord Leigh, the noble Lord, Lord Grabiner, and other noble Lords—in fact, just about everyone—asked about the proscription of the IRGC. The malign influence of Iran is very clear. I cannot give what the noble Lord, Lord Collins, asked for today, but of course we are observing closely Iran’s continued influence, the escalation and its support for organisations within the region. We are clear that Iran poses an unacceptable threat to Israel, as my noble friend highlighted, including through its long-term support for Hamas, Hezbollah and the Palestinian Islamic Jihad group. We have long condemned its destabilising influence. I will share the strength of views in many contributions in your Lordships’ House with my right honourable friend and others within government. I am sure noble Lords recognise that at this time I cannot go further.

However, we are working on sanctions. The noble Lord, Lord Stevens, asked me about the JCPOA sanctions. I have written in advance to several noble Lords to say that, as these sanctions are coming off, we are working with our EU partners and the US to make sure that, as they expire, they will come into UK law directly so there is no break from the sanctions currently being applied. We believe that is a legitimate response in order to limit Iran’s malign influence.

The noble Baroness, Lady Ramsay, my noble friends Lord Wolfson and Lord Polak and the noble Lords, Lord Stevens and Lord Verdirame, raised another issue. I commend the influence of the noble Lord, Lord Verdirame, and the noble Baroness, Lady Uddin, may perhaps have a conversation with him about the law when it comes to conflicts. Of course we are raising directly with Israel the issue of proportionality and ensuring that it takes all necessary steps to prevent civilian casualties. We are impressing that upon Israel, and we would not be having this number of trucks carrying deliveries if Israel did not recognise the importance of opening the crossing at Rafah. We have stressed to Israel the importance of protecting civilians and facilitating safe and unhindered access to humanitarian and medical aid for Gaza. I assure the noble Baronesses, Lady Sheehan, Lady Hussein-Ece, Lady Gohir and Lady Smith, and others who raised these issues that that is a live issue right now, and we will continue to press it. I hope that noble Lords, including the noble Baroness, Lady Blackstone, will recognise the UK’s efforts in this respect.

On the issue of how we deal with conflicts, one of the things that I have learned with all the—how can I put this politely?—challenging responses that I get on some of my own social media, which my noble friend Lord Wolfson pointed to, is that this is now a different kind of conflict. We have to deal with things live.

Lots of people ring me and say, “Tariq, what are you doing here?”, sometimes using rather choice language. I say to them that at a time of conflict, you need calmness —a calm, considered response. Evidence matters; facts matter. On the reporting in certain media channels—the noble Lords, Lord Grabiner and Lord Verdirame, and my noble friend Lord Polak, among others, raised this—I can do no better than repeat the Prime Minister’s words:

“When things are so delicate, we all have a responsibility to take additional care in the language we use and to operate on the basis of facts alone”.—[Official Report, Commons, 23/10/23; col. 592.]


Whether that applies to a Minister, a parliamentarian or, indeed, our media colleagues, it is very important that we have that moment of reflection.

We have not been silent on illegal white phosphorus. The noble Lord, Lord Singh, raised this, as did my noble friend Lord Leigh, and I will answer it directly. The accusation made against the IDF regarding the use of white phosphorus is, in its words, categorically false. Israel recognises its responsibilities under international law. Yesterday the Prime Minister called for us to speak on the basis of facts alone. We need to recognise that there is a lot of misinformation out there and we need to verify the facts.

Several noble Lords, such as my noble friend Lady Warsi, the noble Baronesses, Lady Hussein-Ece, Lady Gohir and Lady Bennett, as well as my noble friend Lord Shinkwin, provided an alternative perspective on ceasefires. As I said earlier, ceasefires will also involve Hamas ceasing hostilities. It has demonstrably shown that it is not willing to do so. However, we are opening up those access points for humanitarian corridors, which is where our current focus is. I believe that most noble Lords will agree that it is right to do so.

I am conscious of time and seek your Lordships’ indulgence on two key points. The noble Baroness, Lady Deech, my noble friends Lord Godson and Lord Polak, and the noble Lord, Lord Bilimoria, among others, mentioned the Abraham accords. They are part and parcel of our response. I am always taken with the contributions by the noble Lord, Lord Stone—they are succinct, brief, and to the point. Of course I will continue to work with him in this respect, because we have to bring hope.

We will sustain the long-term prospects of peace and stability in the region—we cannot lose sight of this. Hamas’s abhorrent actions must not be allowed to dictate the fate of the region. If we give up, collectively —and that applies to Palestinians and Israelis—then Hamas has won. Therefore, it is right that we step up even more strongly in support of bringing about peace. As I have said, we remain committed to a negotiated two-state solution—a safe and secure Israel living alongside a viable and sovereign Palestinian state, a just and lasting solution that ends occupation and delivers peace for both Israelis and Palestinians. This has gone on for far too long. Many noble Lords, including the noble Lord, Lord Liddle, spoke of reconciliation—of course it is possible, and we will continue to focus on that.

I was taken by the very personal contribution of the noble Lord, Lord Oates. Again, it is not that we are not taking on board the calls for a ceasefire, but a ceasefire is called for when it will be most effective. Of course we want humanitarian windows, and those are being delivered. We will continue to call out those issues which are obstacles to peace, such as illegal settlements, which were mentioned—barriers which gravely undermine the prospects of a two-state solution. I assure all noble Lords that we will continue to be seized of that issue.

The final point I want to make is on the rising tide of hate which we have seen. On the work of the CST and Tell MAMA, we have, as I am sure the noble Lord, Lord Collins, acknowledges, increased funding to the CST, which provides vital support. The noble Lord, Lord Palmer of Childs Hill, the noble Baroness, Lady Deech, my noble friends Lord Harrington, Lady Altmann, Lord Gold and Lady Eaton, the noble Baroness, Lady Fox, as well as others, all talked of the protests. We celebrate our democracy for its right to protest but that protest must be without incitement to hatred. That is important. I celebrate the fact that I am still able to pick up my file and cross the road to the Foreign Office from this place. We should be protecting these things. They are a vital part of our democracy.

I echo the call made by the noble Baroness, Lady Deech. I remember going to Auschwitz-Birkenau with a group of students when I was a Communities Minister. I still remember that, as we turned into the camp, the silence of that bunch of 16 year-olds was total. At that moment, there was silence in the coach. Why? Because the dawning of their historical learning was very real. It is therefore right that we invest in such initiatives. I pay tribute to my noble friend Lady Warsi for her initiative, Remembering Srebrenica. These genocides happen and they are happening today. We need to stand united against them and call them out. The noble Baroness, Lady Smith, also focused on these issues.

We will stand strong against anti-Semitism. I assure the most reverend Primate the Archbishop of York that I will take back some of his suggestions. There were suggestions from my noble friend Lord Godson about engagement and I assure him that our policy has not changed when it comes to our engagement. I will certainly take back some of the points he wanted to share with my right honourable friend the Secretary of State for Levelling Up. I say to the most reverend Primate the Archbishop of York that, yes, we want to strengthen the faith initiatives. We cannot let hate divide communities or spill into our streets. We need to stand firm, whether that is against anti-Semitism or anti-Muslim hatred.

On our universities, I acknowledge the points made by the noble Baroness, Lady Deech, and my noble friend Lord Wolfson. It should not be the case that he is worried about his daughter. I have a daughter as well; I want her to be safe and his daughter to be safe. I want all daughters and sons, all children, all people to be safe in our country. That is what our country is all about.

As a Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Minister, I assure your Lordships that we are using our levers of development and diplomacy to best effect. That does not mean we are getting everything right immediately, with the changing circumstances, but we stand to build alliances and unity of purpose. Maybe this is the window of opportunity that brings us a first step to lasting and sustainable peace.

I recognise the strength of feeling in your Lordships’ House this evening but today this is perhaps more important than ever. The heavy toll that has been paid by innocents, as the noble Lord, Lord Campbell, said, demonstrates the urgent need to make progress towards peace. We should not lose sight of that. We should rekindle the spirit of President Sadat and Yitzhak Rabin: that peace is possible. We should all strive for that and say that we will do our part to ensure that hope transcends over despair, peace over conflict and love over hate.

I end my remarks with words which I am sure some noble Lords will recognise. There was a very revered person who understood the Middle East—as my noble friend said, blessed are the peacemakers, and this person was one of those. He said that the only

“radical means of sanctifying human lives”

is

“Not armored plating, or tanks, or planes, or concrete fortifications. The one radical solution is peace”.


That was the revered, respected and late Yitzhak Rabin, Nobel Peace Prize winner, in his lecture of December 1994. We were reminded by the noble Lord in his earlier contribution about prayers for peace and coming together. I join others in saying that, in our respective ways and homes, and our respective faiths and religions, that kind of faith is needed now and those prayers for peace are needed now. In our own way, let us work towards ensuring that it becomes a sustainable peace for people across the Holy Land.

Motion agreed.

Gaza: Al-Ahli Arab Hospital Explosion

Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon Excerpts

Thursday 19th October 2023 Lords Chamber

[Lord Collins of Highbury (Lab)]

My Lords, as the Minister said earlier, we—the Opposition and the Government—are at one, united in support of Israel against terrorism, and we mourn the deaths of Palestinians and Israelis, and particularly the loss of life at the Al-Ahli Hospital. President Biden made it clear that he believed the main achievement of his trip to Israel was to persuade Israel to allow humanitarian relief deliveries across the Egypt-Gaza border. After speaking to Egyptian President al-Sisi, Egypt agreed to open the Rafah crossing to allow 20 trucks with humanitarian aid to enter—obviously, a limited number. As President Biden said, the roads and the infrastructure to get that aid in has been badly damaged and need repairs. The real issue of the next few days and weeks is: will aid get through, is fuel getting through, and is the United Kingdom helping to facilitate that? My specific question is—I heard what the Minister said earlier today: what are we doing to support Egypt to get that aid through as well as support for those people who are in such desperate need of assistance?

[The Minister of State, Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office (Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon) (Con)]

My Lords, I thank the noble Lord for his remarks, which are very reflective of the contributions of many across this Chamber. Humanitarian aid getting through to Gaza is a key government priority and we are working with key partners. President Biden’s visit recently was very much focused on that, and progress has been made. As I came into the Chamber I checked again; although the situation is fluid and the border is not yet open, the noble Lord is correct that the convoys are ready. We are engaging quite directly. I mentioned earlier that both my right honourable friends the Prime Minister and the Foreign Secretary are in the region. The Foreign Secretary was in Egypt this morning and had a detailed discussion with Foreign Minister Shoukry, who I am also in touch with, on these very issues and some of our key priorities, including the hostages and the departure of British nationals from Gaza. It is also important that we look at the inward flow of humanitarian support. It is not yet operational but I assure the noble Lord and indeed all in your Lordships’ House that this is a key government priority, and with the Foreign Secretary’s meeting today in Egypt we are engaging quite directly and bilaterally at the highest level in terms of diplomacy.

[Lord Purvis of Tweed (LD)]

My Lords, I also welcomed the Minister’s measured tone at Questions earlier today in the Chamber in response to this truly terrible incident. There needs to be a proper investigation as to the source of the tragedy. Does he agree with me, however, that we need a humanitarian cessation of hostilities to ensure that life-saving aid, food and water are provided and restored to Gaza and to allow for intense diplomatic activity to be carried out to prevent a wider escalation? I am sure that he agrees with that final element, and I pay tribute to the work that he has been doing with regional powers. That pause would also allow continuing support from these Benches and across the House for Israel’s absolute right to self-defence under international law against Hamas terrorism and to recover hostages.

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, again I thank the noble Lord for his contribution and for the important message that is going out in our united front, as well as our united front in recognising the suffering of ordinary Palestinian civilians in Gaza, made all the worse by Hamas’s abhorrent actions. I assure him that we are prioritising that. There are moving parts to it. Yes, there is Egypt and Israel, but a majority of Gaza is still controlled by Hamas, and that is one of those areas of concern with regard to the security logistics for those who will be taking such support through. The other issue, which I know other noble Lords have been seized of as well, is the previous diversion of aid and support which has gone into Gaza. All these factors add to the complications on the ground but it is important that we look to prioritise humanitarian support, which we are doing, and we will also focus on ensuring that this is done in the most secure manner possible.

[Lord Howell of Guildford (Con)]

My Lords, I must have been mistaken, but I thought this Question was about the explosion at the Al-Ahli Hospital. Can the Minister confirm that the facts that have now come out establish that this was not an Israeli-induced explosion at all and came from an internal rocket that failed, according to the current detailed arguments which been put forward and confirmed? Does he deplore that the Hamas version of this story, which was that 500 had been killed by an Israeli rocket, rattled around the world for quite a long time and was carried, regrettably, by British and American publications, including the BBC? Is this a matter where some move could be taken, while these are independent and free press organs, to encourage organisations such as the BBC News department to take a more cautiously impartial approach rather than regarding it as having two sides, between the butchers and the butchery, and those who suffer and have their throats cut and killed and those who do the killing? There are not two sides in this matter: it is bestiality and evil versus the public and international and world good. Can those sort of views be gently—perhaps privately—put to those who just seize on the latest propaganda for Hamas, which is a very evil organisation?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, my noble friend is correct. We are of course looking at the tragedy which has befallen the Al-Ahli Arab hospital in Gaza. As I said earlier, it is a hospital with strong connections to the Anglican community and has provided, over many years, an important service. On the issue of attribution, as my right honourable friend the Foreign Secretary said yesterday, we are working with all key partners, as well as internally to make our own assessment, to establish what happened there. I am not going to speculate any further at this time: work is under way on attribution.

The important point within all this is that the people who have suffered are those who were in the hospital: those who were seeking urgent assistance and support, and among the most vulnerable. It is therefore important that, in establishing the facts, we also do not lose sight of the issue of humanitarian support, which noble Lords have mentioned. On the wider point of not jumping to conclusions, my noble friend was himself a Minister in a distinguished capacity, and one thing you learn clearly—not just as Ministers but as Governments and parliamentarians, and even our friends—is that we vitally defend media freedom in the United Kingdom. It is an important thing that we lead on. But, in all these areas, responsible reporting and responsible assessments are important, and that is what the Government are currently doing.

[Lord Stirrup (CB)]

My Lords, further to the question of the noble Lord, Lord Howell of Guildford, does the Minister agree that the rapid and largely uninformed responses to this tragedy underscore the importance of the information war in this conflict, and that while nothing is likely to move the majority of public opinion in many Arab countries, nevertheless in the context of the wider world, it is crucial that credible evidence on the cause of this disaster is put into the public domain as soon as possible?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

I agree with the noble and gallant Lord; that is why my right honourable friend the Prime Minister said as much yesterday during Prime Minister’s Questions. As I said, we are assessing the facts and the noble and gallant Lord will know of the importance of assessment and evidence. It is right, I believe, that we take time to ensure that the narrative that prevails is one which is based on the evidence that we ourselves have assessed. On wider reporting, I personally think it extremely tragic that we live in a very information-based world today where there are many people commenting on every utterance, including those of government Ministers. I assure the noble and gallant Lord that while everything which is said is being assessed and interpreted in a particular way, we want to ensure that, as far as possible, the facts are established and then, as my right honourable friend said, we will of course share them.

[The Lord Bishop of Southwell and Nottingham]

I am grateful to the Minister for highlighting the very real connections that there are between the Anglican Church and the hospital. The Al-Ahli hospital is run by the Anglican province of Jerusalem, as he knows, and built around the sacred and historic St Philip’s church, which was subject to such an horrendous incident on Tuesday. We grieve with all those who grieve the suffering and the innocent deaths in Israel and Gaza arising from the atrocious attack by Hamas.

The Archbishop of Jerusalem, Archbishop Hosam, called on people in a press conference yesterday to pray for peace, but also paid particular tribute to the extraordinary dedication and bravery of the nurses, doctors and administrators working in the hospital in such desperate conditions. Can the Government continue to impress upon the Government of Israel how essential it is, in particular, that fresh medical supplies reach the hospitals of Gaza, while also ensuring maximum protection for those buildings? Does the Minister also agree that such incidents, whatever the cause or intention, are very detrimental to the longer-term security and peace that Israel and the Palestinians deserve, in that they risk perpetuating the cycle of violence for generations to come? Protecting the hospitals in Gaza should therefore be a very high priority.

--- Later in debate ---

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

I agree with the right reverend Prelate and pay tribute to the incredible courage and bravery of the doctors and nurses around the world who play a pivotal role in providing medical support, often in the most trying of circumstances. That was exactly the case in the Al-Ahli Arab hospital. I agree also about the important role that faith has, particularly when we look at the current situation in Israel and Gaza. I know Archbishop Hosam very well. We were working directly with many faith communities prior to this conflict; that will continue to be the case.

I am also reminded that I have said at the Dispatch Box that I represent His Majesty’s Government. The head of faith—the head of the church—and the head of our Government is His Majesty, and I was very taken by the poignant tone and substance of a speech he made at Mansion House. He himself said that we are a country defined by our communities. That is the strength of the rich diversity in our nation. When something is celebrated in many parts of the world, including in Israel and by the Palestinians, we should not forget that this is not just about Islam and Judaism, as some people claim, since 20% of the Israeli population are Arab. Many of them are Muslim, yes, but many are Christian as well. The right reverend Prelate mentioned prayers for peace, so perhaps we should end with that word: peace; shalom; salaam.

Gaza: Post-conflict Reconstruction

Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon Excerpts

Thursday 19th October 2023 Lords Chamber

[Lord Brooke of Alverthorpe]

To ask His Majesty’s Government what plans they have to coordinate action to rebuild Gaza after the war.

[The Minister of State, Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office (Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon) (Con)]

My Lords, rebuilding a safe and stable Gaza will be a high priority for the international community but the United Kingdom’s immediate focus is on helping to co-ordinate immediate humanitarian assistance. On Monday, my right honourable friend the Prime Minister announced an increase of £10 million of support to the Occupied Palestinian Territories. We are working closely with the UN and partners in the region to ensure that humanitarian support urgently reaches civilians in Gaza. As the Prime Minister said, we are stepping forward with humanitarian support, working to protect civilians from harm and straining every sinew to keep the flame of peace and stability alive.

[Lord Brooke of Alverthorpe (Lab)]

My Lords, I am grateful to the Minister for that update. I agree with everything he said and give my whole support to the Government in their efforts. I declare an interest as a long-standing member of the Labour Friends of Israel. I pray daily for the safe release of the hostages, as I am sure many others in the Chamber do, and for an end to the hostilities the Minister has described.

Looking beyond that, can the Minister confirm that he believes in the existence of a viable Gaza after we find a peace of some sort? To secure that peace, does he agree that we must try to bring into play all possible actors in the region, including some of those who have hitherto declined to get involved in any settlement? In that context, does he recall the debate in this Chamber led by the noble Lord, Lord Polak, on the Abraham accords and some of the positive ideas suggested in it about how we can improve the economic circumstances of Gaza and the surrounding area? In particular, my colleague the noble Lord, Lord Stone, suggested that there should be a complete change in economic approach, bringing in the Saudis. As a result, the Saudis—

[Lord Brooke of Alverthorpe (Lab)]

I know this question is long, but this is very important. The Saudis responded to the noble Lord’s suggestion, but I found that the Government have not followed that up. Will the Government pursue this with the Saudis as a basis on which something might be built for peace?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, the hostages are a priority. Irrespective of whatever faith we follow, or no faith, I am sure that all our prayers and thoughts are with them. We want their safe return and peace and calm restored. A stable Gaza is in the interests of the whole region, but it is clear that the leadership of Hamas—if you can so call this abhorrent terrorist group, which is proscribed in the United Kingdom—is not the future for Gaza, the Palestinians or the people of the region. Of course the Abraham accords are important. We are working with key partners and, as the noble Lord is aware, my right honourable friends the Prime Minister and the Foreign Secretary are currently in the region.

[Lord Polak (Con)]

My Lords, I welcome the Prime Minister’s visit to Israel, which is an important statement. Does my noble friend agree that, before we can talk about the construction of a new Gaza, there must be a destruction of all the terror infrastructure underneath Gaza, which is causing the problem?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, while the situation in Gaza was extremely challenging prior to this conflict, it is an inescapable truth that Hamas as an organisation, through what it subscribes to and its actions in Israel—the killing, murder and maiming of so many, including innocent women and children—does not represent the interests of any people who are like-minded about our common humanity. I agree with my noble friend that Hamas should be something that we talk about as the past—that it was defeated and the infrastructure was put to rest—because even now, in the most desperate situation in which Gazans find themselves, missiles continue to land in Israel.

[Lord Singh of Wimbledon (CB)]

My Lords, does the Minister agree that the first step in rebuilding Gaza is to stop the US-backed Israeli destruction of its infrastructure and the merciless killing of its inhabitants, including the sick in hospitals, in collective punishment for the sins of Hamas? Does he also agree that the USA, which has given support to Israel to invade Gaza, should not only meet the financial costs of reconstruction but pay reparations to survivors?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, I speak not for the US Government but for the British Government. However, we both stand by the provision of humanitarian support around the world—a proud tradition irrespective of political leadership that continues today for the Palestinians in the West Bank and Gaza. As I have said, the Prime Minister has announced additional funding and support. We are focused on that vital humanitarian support, but I am sure that the noble Lord recognises that Hamas does not represent the Palestinian people. This is a very fluid situation. It is time for calm heads. Everyone was shocked to their core by the devastation we saw at the Al-Ahli Hospital—I pay particular tribute to the Lords spiritual for the strong Anglican tradition associated with that hospital—but we cannot jump to conclusions. At a time of conflict, we must ensure that there is patience, resolve and calm before we look at attribution. I assure noble Lords that the United Kingdom Government, as my right honourable friends the Prime Minister and Foreign Secretary have said, are looking at this very carefully.

[Lord Turnberg (Lab)]

My Lords, does the noble Lord agree that a Hamas-free Gaza, if we can ever get to that point, will provide an enormous opportunity for the case to be made strongly for a possible Palestinian state in the West Bank and Gaza? Does he agree that, with Hamas there, that is impossible?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, I reflected the noble Lord’s sentiments in my earlier responses. We are engaging with all key partners, including the Palestinian Authority. Earlier this morning I had a meeting with Hussein al-Sheikh, a senior member of the Executive of Mr Abbas. The Prime Minister has engaged directly with President Abbas, I have spoken to Foreign Minister al-Maliki, and the Foreign Secretary has been fully engaged. We have done so because the PA represents those who represent the interests of the Palestinians. In the future of that region, the rights and protection of all citizens, irrespective of faith or community, must be upheld. For the long-term horizon, that means a sustainable, two-state solution with Israel and Palestine living side by side in peace. However, at this moment we must ensure the return of the hostages, that this threat from Hamas is put to bed and, ultimately, that sustainable peace can be achieved. We all wish and pray for a future in that region without Hamas.

[Lord Purvis of Tweed (LD)]

My Lords, on Tuesday, just hours before the terrible incident at the hospital to which the Minister referred—I agree with his remarks about that—an UNRWA school was hit. Fourteen UNRWA staff have been killed since 7 October and half a million Palestinians are currently sheltering in UNRWA facilities. I welcome the extra £10 million to the OPT, but this March I raised concerns that UK support to UNRWA has been more than halved since 2018, from over £70 million to £28 million. Does the Minister agree that there is now an urgent need for the UK fully to replenish our support for UNRWA, which will save lives?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

I was at the UN in September. Two countries often come in for criticism around the protection and defence of Israel—the United Kingdom and the United States. The biggest new pledge to UNRWA, of $73 million, came from the United States and the second-biggest came from the United Kingdom, doubling our support of £10 million. This new money is in addition to that. I accept that we have had to make reductions to ODA programmes around the world, but I am sure the noble Lord accepts that, when it really matters, it is countries such as the United Kingdom and the United States that stand up for those people who need the greatest level of support.

[Lord Collins of Highbury (Lab)]

My Lords, the Minister is absolutely right that it has been the United Kingdom and United States standing up for UNRWA, although we have had severe cuts there, but the Question is about the future and how we are working. James Cleverly said yesterday that the Palestinians are victims of Hamas as well. We must remember that. How do we ensure that we do not just rely on the United States but work with countries such as Saudi Arabia so that the proper funds are put back into Palestine?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

I agree with the noble Lord, and put on record His Majesty’s Government’s recognition of the strong support from His Majesty’s Official Opposition, and indeed all other parties represented here, in the united voice on this issue. All of us care about people suffering around the world and the issue of the Palestinians is no exception. I recognised that engagement in the meetings I had this morning. Prior to this, as the noble Lord, Lord Brooke, said in his Question, we were working with key partners. I was extensively engaged on new memorandums of understanding that we have signed with Gulf partners on issues of development. This needs not just the US and the UK. We should get away from “the East”, “the western world” and the “Islamic world”. I am a Muslim of the West. Am I conflicted? No, I am not. I am proud of the traditions of this country—my country—because we stand up for the people when they need us the most. We are working with Israel; of course we are a steadfast partner, but we are also working to ensure that the Palestinians see a future horizon which is bright and in which they recognise that they can live their lives in peace, in a sustainable way with their neighbours.

UN General Assembly September 2023

Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon Excerpts

Wednesday 18th October 2023 Lords Chamber

[Lord McConnell of Glenscorrodale]

To ask His Majesty’s Government what assessment they have made of the outcomes of the High-Level Meeting of the United Nations General Assembly held in September 2023.

[The Minister of State, Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office (Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon) (Con)]

My Lords, high-level week was a critical collective moment to tackle the growing interconnected challenges that we face by listening to the concerns of our partners, particularly in the developing world. We saw important progress made to accelerate delivery of the sustainable development goals. Importantly, the world also heard President Zelensky make the case for a just and sustainable peace in Ukraine, and the UK Government, alongside partners, led in broadening the vital international conversation on artificial intelligence.

[Lord McConnell of Glenscorrodale (Lab)]

I thank the noble Lord the Minister for his Answer and I look forward to the publication of the White Paper, which I understand is planned for November, on the sustainable development goals. Can I ask more widely? This is perhaps directly related to the non-attendance of our own Prime Minister but also a number of other national leaders around the world—indicating, I think, a feeling of impotence at the moment on the ability of the United Nations to influence the conflicts that we see, and the persecution and violence against individuals in so many countries. Given the failure of the international community to protect civilians in Syria, Sudan, Ethiopia, Ukraine and most recently, of course, Israel and Gaza over recent years, does the UK now recognise that there is a need for fundamental reform of an institution that is still built around the outcome of the Second World War and is not fit for the challenges and conflicts of the 21st century? Will the Government set out at some point their intentions to take a lead in that debate?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, on the question of attendance, there was high-level attendance from the United Kingdom, led by the Deputy Prime Minister. As the noble Lord may well be aware, it is not the first time that has happened and it is not uncommon. The Deputy Prime Minister led the delegations in 2010 and 2013, and the Foreign Secretary did so between 2001 and 2004 and in 2006 and 2007.

The important element was the discussions and some of the outcomes. The noble Lord is right that conflicts persist around the world. I argue that we are seeing a record number of conflicts around the world, certainly in my time as a Minister. There is a need for early intervention and prevention but also engagement and conflict mediation. The structures are there but they need reform, and the United Kingdom has been at the forefront of that, including supporting Secretary-General Guterres’s common agenda for the future. It is important that we get the sustainable development goals back on track, because they are important to deliver. When you see progress being made there, it needs not just the focus of one country or two countries but a collective unity to ensure that we meet the challenges we currently face.

[Lord Collins of Highbury (Lab)]

My Lords, the SDGs are a vital agenda that, it was agreed, would be completed in 2030. World Food Day was on Monday, and it is a reminder that conflict and climate change threaten the progress that we have made and that this country has led on. The global food summit being held on 20 November is a chance to put this back in the leadership race and make sure that other countries take seriously the nutrition challenge, which is a multiplier in delivering on the SDGs. Can the Minister tell us that he will work with other Governments to ensure that next year’s Nutrition for Growth summit, which is scheduled to be in Paris, will be an opportunity to put things back on track so that we are able to deliver that 2030 agenda?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, I recognise the important role the noble Lord plays on this important issue. I agree with him on the SDGs; only 15% of the current SDG targets for 2030 are on track. Many have gone into reverse or stalled. Therefore, they require those important commitments.

I agree with the noble Lord on the food security summit, and the UK delegation highlighted hunger during high-level week. The UK has previously hosted the global food security summit and we are focused on delivering those important outcomes. I know the noble Lord agrees with me on this. Summits alone do not deliver outcomes. We have COP 28 coming up and we know the climate challenges. It requires promises and commitments that have been made to be fulfilled, particularly for countries that cannot help themselves. It is important that we stand up and help them.

[Lord Lexden (Con)]

My Lords, will my noble friend remind the House of the Government’s key priorities for the reform of the United Nations organisations? As the noble Lord, Lord McConnell, reminded us, they have been in their present form since the Second World War.

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My noble friend is right to bring focus to that. One practical example is the current status of the UN Security Council, which was built on the pillars of the post-Second World War settlement. We have seen the Security Council not working effectively, particularly as one P5 member—namely, Russia—has interjected quite directly on its illegal war against Ukraine, a founding member of the United Nations. We need reform to reflect the global dynamic of the world today. There are many reforms. The rules-based system needs reform on how we interject when natural disasters hit different parts of the world, for example. These rules were made more than 40 years ago. They need reform to reflect the modern world we live in.

[Lord Purvis of Tweed (LD)]

The main reason we are off track with the goal on poverty, as well as the others the Minister referred to, is that the richest nations on earth are not making the contributions they said they would, including the United Kingdom with its unlawful ODA cut. As the Independent Commission for Aid Impact highlighted in its recent report, the UK provided £3.3 billion for multilateral ODA in 2022, but £3.7 billion was spent within the United Kingdom on refugee costs. Will the Minister agree with me that official development assistance for the world’s poorest should be spent overseas and not here in the UK?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, I agree with the principle the noble Lord articulates, but he will be aware that it is within the ODA rules. The reduction we had to make was reflective of the challenges that the United Kingdom is facing, as all countries are. We remain one of the largest donors when it comes to ODA. It is also right that, as the United Kingdom has done with Ukraine and other conflicts around the world, we look to support those seeking protection here in the United Kingdom. It is within the rules to spend on that within that first 12-month period. He will know that my right honourable friend Andrew Mitchell, the Minister for Development, is very seized of the importance of ODA spend globally. That is why the White Paper referred to earlier will also define our future way on ODA spending and our priorities in the years to come.

[Lord Hannay of Chiswick (CB)]

My Lords, does the Minister agree that, when approaching the issue of UN reform—and I agree with both him and the noble Lord, Lord McConnell, that reform is needed—it is probably wise to approach this in an incremental way and not to try to fashion together one single, overall package? In the light of the state of the world at the moment, that would look to me singularly unlikely to make progress.

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, the noble Lord has wise insights from his time as our permanent representative at the United Nations. I agree with him about the reform that is needed, but I am sure he would agree with me that it has to go beyond words and papers being produced, and that we need practical delivery of the reforms. I want to move away from the division that is sometimes put forward about the global North and the global South. This should be a comprehensive review of understanding the equities, the strengths, the opportunities and also the challenges we have, and how we work in terms of partnership, particularly for developing nations. I talked about climate earlier; let us be quite real there. Climate change matters in certain respects to certain countries. If you are Vanuatu or Tuvalu—countries in the Commonwealth—climate change is an existential threat. It is vital that we look at the global impact of the decisions we make, but that needs fundamental reforms in the international rules-based system.

[Lord Woodley (Lab)]

My Lords, the Secretary-General of the United Nations has today called for a humanitarian ceasefire in Israel. We need the hostages home safely to their people, and we need to stop the unnecessary bombing of innocent men, women and children. Does the Minister agree?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, I have been very much engaged and quite heavily involved in the diplomatic efforts since the abhorrent crimes that were committed against the Israeli people and the Israeli nation. Let us be very clear from this House: Hamas itself is a proscribed organisation and its tactics, antics and impact on Israel shook that country to the core. Equally, I assure the noble Lord that we are engaging in all diplomatic efforts. He will have heard the statements of my right honourable friend the Prime Minister, and indeed those of the right honourable leader of the Opposition, that we as a country are at one. We do not want to see innocent lives lost, be they Israeli or Palestinian. I assure the noble Lord that we are working all diplomatic channels—bilaterally and collectively in the region—to ensure that this conflict, which has cost so many lives already, can be brought to a halt. We need the hostages back and we need humanitarian aid to enter to help the desperate people in Gaza.

Western Balkans: Dayton Peace Agreement

Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon Excerpts

Tuesday 17th October 2023 Lords Chamber

[The Minister of State, Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office (Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon) (Con)]

My Lords, first, I join noble Lords in rightly praising and recognising the expertise and insights that have been brought by my noble friend Lady Helic to this debate and also her continued commitment not just on this issue but on the wider impact of the region and issues of security. My noble friend and I have had extensive discussions and debates on this. I pay tribute to her efforts, which ensure that this is at the forefront of the Government’s thinking. In this regard—I will come on to it in a moment—I had a very constructive meeting with the Minister for Armed Forces earlier today, and I will certainly pick up on a couple of my noble friend’s suggestions.

The noble Lord, Lord Alderdice, and my noble friend Lord Cormack reminded us of the history of the issues in the Western Balkans. I have said before, and I say again, that I remember visiting Bosnia-Herzegovina right at the start of my professional career, and then we saw Slovenia, then Croatia and Serbia. The war in Bosnia was etched in people’s memories. My noble friend Lord Cormack reminded us of the tragedy that remains the legacy of Srebrenica. I am proud that, over many years, the United Kingdom Government have remained one of those Governments who mark that particular event, that tragedy, the genocide that took place against the Bosnian people quite specifically, and it is right that we do so.

I assure noble Lords that the Western Balkans matters to His Majesty’s Government. Its security is critical to our security. We want to see all six countries become stable, inclusive and resilient democracies, no longer scarred by the legacy of conflict. My noble friend Lord Dundee made that comment extremely well. We want to see them making progress to Euro-Atlantic integration, which, from the Government’s perspective— I am sure noble Lords agree—is the surest route to the security and prosperity that their citizens deserve.

However, as we have seen from recent events, many remain vulnerable from within and from outside their borders. A small handful of powerful people profit from stoking ethno-nationalist sentiment and exploit vulnerabilities within their system for their own ends. Russia was mentioned by the noble Lord, Lord Anderson, and others. It stokes those very flames of division, plays on the local tensions and uses them as a distraction from its illegal war in Ukraine and as a way to obstruct Euro-Atlantic integration. Any return to conflict could spread across the region, with serious political and humanitarian consequences.

Several noble Lords referred to the current conflict in the Middle East and contagion. That is why I, the Foreign Secretary, and, importantly, the Prime Minister, have been engaged in ensuring that when a conflict occurs, particularly in that part of the world, there are lessons to be learned elsewhere so that we contain conflicts, because the danger of them spreading is very real. The Government share the concerns expressed by my noble friend in her opening remarks and others, including the noble Baroness, Lady Goudie, about the growing instability that we are seeing.

Turning to Bosnia-Herzegovina, the president of Republika Srpska, Mr Dodik, is escalating his rhetoric around secession. That is very clear. These threats are accompanied not just by rhetoric alone but by sustained efforts to undermine the legitimacy and authority of the state. In the same way, he continues to confront the high representative, at times almost disabling his impact and effect, whose executive powers represent the greatest challenge to Mr Dodik’s ambitions.

I share the sentiments expressed by the noble Lord, Lord Alderdice, as he reflected on the important role of the late, much respected Lord Ashdown. I remember many a discussion on this issue with the noble Lord. The leadership that the noble Lord, Lord Alderdice, mentioned is needed now to be able to engage in a direct manner to ensure that those who seek to divide are challenged quite directly.

Recently, we have seen Mr Dodik sign into force legislation to block decisions by the high representative and by the BiH Constitutional Court in Republika Srpska. This stands in direct contradiction to the constitutional order of Bosnia-Herzegovina as set out in the Dayton accords, a point emphasised by the noble Lord, Lord Browne, and my noble friend Lady Helic. He has also threatened directly to ban the high representative entering Republika Srpska, stating that he would be arrested and deported if he did so. Within Republika Srpska, Mr Dodik continues to tighten his grip on power. Recent legislation has reduced the space for independent media by recriminalising defamation.

The noble Lord, Lord Collins, focused on civil society, and I agree with him totally. The Republika Srpska National Assembly is considering a new law that would prohibit political activity by NGOs which receive foreign funding, with troubling and disabling implications for civil society.

We also see tensions rising in Kosovo following the shocking events of 24 September. We strongly condemn the violent attack against the Kosovo police. I am sure this House’s thoughts are with the family, friends and colleagues of the fallen police officer Afrim Bunjaku. It is crucial that the full facts are established and that those responsible face justice.

The noble Lord, Lord Anderson, also talked about the importance of ensuring that we act against Russia. I have already talked about how it is seeking to distract. While it is welcome that the Serbian president has announced reduced numbers of forces near the border, the build-up in the first place sent an unwelcome and destabilising signal. Serbia needs to complete the return of its troops to their usual bases without delay, co-operate fully with the investigation and play its part to disrupt disinformation and inflammatory rhetoric.

Many noble Lords, including the noble Lords, Lord Purvis, Lord Alderdice and Lord Collins, focused on the UK response. I agree about the importance of peacebuilding. The noble Earl, Lord Sandwich, reflected on the inability of the UN today to impose itself in ensuring that peacebuilding plays a role. I have been talking on other matters with the UN leadership, including the Secretary-General, but I assure my noble friend that, in Bosnia-Herzegovina, we are working with international partners to deter further secessionist action from Mr Dodik. Alongside members of the Quint and the Peace Implementation Council, we have been vocal in condemning Mr Dodik’s actions and reiterating our firm support for the high representative.

As noble Lords mentioned, Mr Dodik is already subject to UK sanctions, and we will consider designating others who support his drive for secession. On the point made by the noble Lord, Lord Collins, it is a matter of regret that, because of pressures within the European Union, it has not followed suit. That is something that we continue to advocate for because it allows a degree of free rein for Mr Dodik.

I turn to other specific measures we have been taking. At our instigation, the Media Freedom Coalition published a statement expressing its concern at declining media freedom in Bosnia-Herzegovina and at recent legislative changes in Republika Srpska. Over 20 countries have given their support to this statement.

We are also helping to maintain a secure environment by developing the capacity of the Bosnian armed forces; I know that my noble friend Lady Helic is very much focused on that. In addition to bilateral training and donations of equipment, we have contributed £1 million to NATO’s defence capacity-building initiative. The presence of EUFOR Operation Althea remains vital to peace and security; the noble Lord, Lord Purvis, focused on this, as did my noble friend. I assure all noble Lords that we will work with allies to see the executive mandate renewed at the UN Security Council in November.

I am aware that my noble friend has written to the Secretary of State for Defence. In my meeting with the Minister for the Armed Forces I raised these issues directly. He assured me that we continue to support security and stability in Bosnia-Herzegovina and our contributions to NATO HQ, to which I have referred. We are keeping the UK position on rejoining EUFOR under review, but we have not yet formally engaged with the EU; as my noble friend is aware, this would require approval from all member states.

However, at the invitation of the Bosnian Government, I can confirm today that next week the UK will be deploying up to 80 personnel from the First Royal Anglian to train alongside the Armed Forces of Bosnia and Herzegovina personnel. I emphasise that this deployment is part of our bilateral defence relationship with Bosnia-Herzegovina, not an operational deployment, but it again sends a strong signal from the UK. The deployment presents a good opportunity for capacity building and developing interoperability between UK and Bosnian forces. I know that the Secretary of State will be writing to my noble friend in response to her letter specifically.

We are taking further steps. Noble Lords mentioned the wider region, Serbia directly, the situation in Kosovo and the need to avoid further escalation. The Prime Minister reinforced this message with both President Vučić of Serbia and President Osmani of Kosovo at the European Political Community on 5 October. This will be key to moving beyond the current situation and finding acceptable solutions. We also continue to make it clear to the Serbian authorities that they need to co-operate fully with Kosovo’s investigation, now under way in co-ordination with EULEX, and fully reverse the build-up of troops. We are likewise clear with the Kosovo authorities on the need to communicate positively and effectively with citizens from minority communities.

Our engagement with the Western Balkans is not limited to addressing these immediate concerns. We have a political relationship with all six countries. Ministers from the FCDO have made over a dozen trips to the region since 2021; in the last month alone, the Minister for Europe has visited Montenegro, Bosnia-Herzegovina and Serbia, as well as Croatia and Slovenia. Most recently, my right honourable friend the Foreign Secretary visited Tirana for the Berlin process Foreign Ministers’ and leaders’ meetings on 6 and 16 October respectively—a key opportunity to engage with the political leadership of all six western Balkan countries.

We engage directly with the provision of troops in support of KFOR. The Prime Minister’s Special Envoy, our noble and gallant friend Lord Peach, is frequently in contact with regional Governments. In August, together with the noble and gallant Lord, I attended the Bled Strategic Forum where the future of the Western Balkans was a central theme. I spoke at the Western Balkans breakfast and had bilateral meetings with the deputy Foreign Minister of Bosnia-Herzegovina as well as meeting with the Serbian and Bosnian Foreign Ministers.

There is much happening in this area. My noble friend Lord Dundee focused on some of the economic opportunities. The UK is providing up to £14 billion for major projects through UK Export Finance, as well as looking at the current situation. We are also working with transatlantic partners. I attended an event hosted by Secretary Blinken in New York last month, during which I underlined the need for the international community to use all its tools to put the Western Balkans back on the path towards greater stability and progress.

We are undertaking several other initiatives but, in closing this debate, I assure noble Lords that we are fully committed to ensuring the long-term security, stability, sovereignty and integrity of the different countries of the Western Balkans. We are also aware of the current challenges and those forces that seek to cause further division. The Government are fully committed to the security and stability of that region, and we will continue to focus in this respect by working with our international partners, as my noble friend suggests.

We are also working directly with the Governments of the Western Balkans to build those inclusive, sustainable, democratic societies that have resolved the grievances of so many in the past. We will remain focused in this way on ensuring that the current instability is replaced by stability and that the current insecurities are dealt with by co-operation. Together, and working together, we can ensure a prosperous future for the citizens of the wider Balkans.

National Cyber Security Centre

Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon Excerpts

Monday 16th October 2023 Lords Chamber

[Baroness McIntosh of Pickering]

To ask His Majesty’s Government what is the role of the National Cyber Security Centre in monitoring and preventing cyber attacks.

[The Minister of State, Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office (Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon) (Con)]

My Lords, the NCSC, as the UK’s technical authority, is the UK Government’s authoritative voice on the cyber threat, providing independent assessments and improving cybersecurity across the United Kingdom. The NCSC provides protection at scale and drives improvements to resilience and security to mitigate threats from our adversaries and reduce cyber harms in the UK. Through tailored expertise to protect citizens, businesses and organisations, the NCSC works to make the UK the safest place to live and work online.

[Baroness McIntosh of Pickering (Con)]

My Lords, I am grateful to my noble friend for that Answer, and for the White Paper that the centre has produced. What advice would my noble friend and the Government give to a firm in North Yorkshire that underwent a cyberattack a year ago and had its systems restored only by the payment of a rather large ransom in cryptocurrency? The White Paper focuses on prevention but, in the midst of an attack, what can a company possibly do other than pay the ransom?

--- Later in debate ---

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, my noble friend raises a couple of important points. First, on ransom demands, as she will be aware, it is the firm position of the Government and UK law enforcement that we do not encourage, endorse or indeed condone the payment of ransom demands. For example, if you pay a ransom after your computer has been affected or your systems have been impacted, there is no guarantee that you will not be targeted in the future by criminal groups. In that regard, Lindy Cameron, the CEO of the NCSC, and the Information Commissioner have written to the Law Society and the Bar Council.

However, the Government offer specific support, including to small businesses. There are the 10 Steps to Cyber Security and the Small Business Guide; there is also a ransomware portal that provides fresh advice, as well as the NCSC’s assured cyber incident response scheme. It is ever evolving, but the Government are very robust, and we are working across departments to ensure that we give the best information and response possible.

[Lord Harris of Haringey (Lab)]

My Lords, of course, I refer to my interests in the register. I suspect that the excellent schemes that the Minister has outlined are very useful but that they do not address the question that the noble Baroness, Lady McIntosh, asked. If a company or organisation is subjected to a ransomware attack, can it get tailored help as to what to do in real time from the NCSC, and how do people know how to access that?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, if the noble Lord reflects on the answer that I gave, he will see that I answered the question quite directly. The first point is, “Don’t pay”, because the experience is that there is no assurance. Of course, a small company will have limited resources, and some of the portals, information and websites, as well as the response that I have outlined, are designed to help exactly those kinds of small businesses in their response. However, one thing is very clear, whether it is within my department or the Home Office: that by paying such demands there is no assurance, for a small or a large company, that a ransom attack will not happen again.

[Baroness Stuart of Edgbaston (CB)]

I declare an interest as the chair of Wilton Park, an executive agency of the Foreign and Commonwealth Office. Small organisations, while they are not completely part of government, nevertheless provide some back-door entrance to government by some people with malign intent, and they carry quite disproportionate costs to ensure their cybersecurity. Have the Government given any thought to how they could support ALBs and executive agencies across government more comprehensively?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, I recognise the vital insights of the noble Baroness. In working across government, we also work to ensure that government systems, structures, departments and agencies are fully protected. As I said in my Answer, this is an ever-evolving and ever-challenging threat—what is good today needs to be adapted for tomorrow’s threats. Where specific issues arise, be they for small businesses or for agencies, we seek to provide the necessary focused support.

[Lord Purvis of Tweed (LD)]

My Lords, I have visited the centre and greatly admire the work of the whole team. The public and the private sector should adhere to its advice. The Government have consulted on prohibiting payments to ransomware. The Minister and I well know that the source of many such attacks is Russia and, currently, Iran. Does it not sit ill that businesses are only being told not to pay ransomware, rather than having a legal prohibition, when that money will end up in Tehran or Moscow?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, the noble Lord is quite correct and we have often discussed these issues and challenges. The mitigations we have put in and the advice we provide are all part of an overall package but, as I am sure he will agree, the challenge is that we also need sharp-end sanctions against these states. As I know from my experience at the Foreign Office over the last few years, we never used to call out or challenge state actors for cyberattacks. We now do so. The two countries the noble Lord named—Russia and Iran—are very much part of our focus. I am sure he will acknowledge that we have imposed cyber sanctions on Russia.

[Baroness Smith of Basildon (Lab)]

My Lords, to take the Minister back to prevention, he will be aware of the increase in the number of ransomware issues—the incoming Costa Rican Government last year and the Irish healthcare system the year before were both hit by ransomware attacks. Can he tell the House more about what we are learning through international co-operation? Prevention is obviously better than having to deal with a significant problem afterwards, so I hope that we are learning something from other countries that have had to deal with this and that we can extend that to public bodies and private organisations.

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

I totally agree with the noble Baroness and assure her that we work very closely with our key international partners in calling out some of these cyberattacks against companies or even government websites and systems. We seek to act together and have done so. She will be aware that at the beginning of next month we will host an AI summit, which the Prime Minister is overseeing, very much aimed at exactly what she articulates—how we can learn from each other while improving our responses. I always say that, for cyber and many of the other challenges we face, as good as mitigations or mechanisms may be, those who seek to cause us harm—be it to business or directly to the Government—are looking at new ways to overcome them, so we will continue to share and co-operate with our key partners and allies on this.

[Lord Clement-Jones (LD)]

My Lords, a few weeks ago, the National Cyber Security Centre issued a warning about the risks of “prompt injection attacks” on the new large language models such as ChatGPT when used in the workplace, which enable them to be open to manipulation. What are the Government doing to ensure that they mitigate that risk in their own workplaces?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, as I have said, we are working across government and internationally. I think we all recognise the catch-up element with the evolution of these new methods. There are transformational elements with new innovations—that is why I referred to the AI summit, which is intended not just to avail us with the opportunities these new technologies present, as the noble Lord articulated, but to address the challenge and high risk presented to government, industry, sectors and individuals.

Noble Lords may recall the sad occasion when this very Parliament was attacked physically. I remember the emotional exchanges and statements made at the time, including by my noble friend Lady Evans. There was another attack at that time, on the parliamentary emails of many Members of this House and the other place. The knowledge base available for mitigation was limited, as was awareness. I think most Members and colleagues were concerned about getting their machines and devices up and working rather than about the data loss. The more learning, education and information we can share, the better we will be at mitigating some of these risks.

[Lord McLoughlin (Con)]

My Lords, a company which is the subject of a cyberattack may not wish to be publicly identified, but they may have suffered severe financial problems. How is HMRC taking this into account and giving those companies some breathing time to put right what may have happened to them? It is all very well saying it in one section, but is there a cross-government approach to this issue?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, I assure my noble friend that we do have a cross-government approach to this. He raises a very important point about both risk and the cost associated with cyberattacks, and we are very much seized of this. I have already outlined specific schemes and support. It is very important that we share this, however, so in the interests of full information, I will write to my noble friend and put on record in the Library the number of schemes that are available for information sharing and the support that can be offered to those impacted.