NATO: Russia and Ukraine

Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon Excerpts

Thursday 15th April 2021 Lords Chamber

[Lord Campbell of Pittenweem]

To ask Her Majesty’s Government what discussions they have held with NATO allies regarding the recent amassing of Russian forces on the Ukrainian border.

[The Minister of State, Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office (Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon) (Con)]

My Lords, we have significant concerns about Russian military activity on Ukraine’s border and in illegally annexed Crimea. We support Ukraine’s sovereignty and territorial integrity. We have discussed extensively with NATO allies; the Foreign Secretary has engaged with French, German and US counterparts and Ukraine and we attended the NATO-Ukraine Commission on 13 April. We and our allies urge Russia to uphold the OSCE principles and commitments it signed up to, which it violates through ongoing aggression against Ukraine.

[Lord Campbell of Pittenweem (LD)]

Does the Minister agree that even if Mr Putin’s intentions are confined to the intimidation of Ukraine and those who support its legitimate wish to join the NATO defence alliance, the present, massive deployment of armed forces on the border is dangerously destabilising because of the risk of conflict arising by either misjudgment, mistake or provocation, real or manufactured? Is all this not particularly dangerous when we consider that the Russian military appears to have resurrected the Cold War doctrine of nuclear war fighting and the deployment of low-yield nuclear weapons on the battlefield? If there ever was a time for transatlantic solidarity, is this not that time?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, I agree with the noble Lord, and that is why my right honourable friend the Foreign Secretary has been engaging extensively with NATO allies. He was in Brussels only yesterday. I also agree with the noble Lord regarding Russia’s aggressive behaviour towards Ukraine. Let us be clear: it is not limited to Donbass and Crimea; we know that Russia seeks covertly and overtly to undermine Ukraine at every turn.

[Lord Anderson of Swansea (Lab)]

My Lords, Russia applies pressure militarily, economically and politically until it meets counterpressure that is credible and strong and it has to pay a price, which we have seen here. Therefore, will the UK apply the latest group of US sanctions against Russia and encourage our NATO and EU allies to do the same? Do the Government support the completion of Nord Stream 2, which will severely damage the economy of Ukraine?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, on the noble Lord’s second point, we have repeatedly stated our position on the issue of Nord Stream 2; while we ourselves do not welcome it, it is an issue and a challenge for Germany. I agree with the noble Lord’s earlier point, and we are working closely with our allies. The noble Lord alluded to reports that are currently circulating on further actions the United States will be taking. The formal announcement of that is imminent, and we will respond accordingly.

[Baroness Smith of Newnham (LD) [V]]

My Lords, I agree with my noble friend Lord Campbell of Pittenweem about the importance of a strong transatlantic response, but does the Minister agree that if we are concerned about Russia building up its forces on the border, the UK also needs to be careful not to be seen to be fuelling any sort of arms race by threatening to increase its nuclear weapons?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, the United Kingdom’s nuclear deterrent, as well as working with our key allies, is reflective of the importance the United Kingdom attaches to the defence of Europe and the wider world. History has shown us that our independent deterrent has ensured that those who sabre-rattle know that there would be an extensive response from allies of the United Kingdom if they were to go down that route. That said, the deterrent has done exactly what it is intended to do. It has deterred further action and aggression, which no one wishes to see.

[Lord Robathan (Con)]

My Lords, President Putin is an authoritarian and dictatorial bully, and like all bullies, he senses weakness. He senses weakness in Nord Stream in Germany; he senses it, rightly or wrongly—I think probably wrongly—in the new President Biden in the United States; and he senses weakness when the United Kingdom reduces its Armed Forces, its aircraft, its ships and, above all, the size of its Army at this time. So, will my noble friend go back to our right honourable friend the Foreign Secretary and get him to argue in Cabinet that to reduce the Armed Forces at the moment is a signal to bullies that we are not to be taken seriously?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, I know my noble friend speaks from great insight and expertise about our Armed Forces, but I assure him that Her Majesty’s Government are fully committed to our Armed Forces, which is underlined by the additional funding that has been provided to the Ministry of Defence. On the broader issue of security, we stand firmly with our allies and in support of the NATO alliance. I suggest that with the new Administration in the United States we have seen a realignment and strengthening of that alliance.

[Lord Kerr of Kinlochard (CB) [V]]

The Minister will recall that Sir John Major and Lord Hurd of Westwell were the west European signatories of the 1994 Budapest memorandum. Do the Government agree that this gives us a continuing responsibility for the security and territorial integrity of Ukraine? If so, how do the Government intend to discharge it? The United States has a similar responsibility as a signatory, and the Minister will have noted that President Biden believes that now is the time for dialogue with both President Zelensky and President Putin.

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, we stand by our commitment to the convention that was signed and are fully supportive of the efforts in the defence of Ukraine and its sovereignty and integrity.

[The Lord Bishop of Leeds [V]]

My Lords, given the relative ineffectiveness of the western response to the invasion of eastern Ukraine in 2014, what assurance might Ukraine assume, should conflict or further invasion ensue? Also, could the Minister comment on any prognosis for the future of the Minsk accords and the prospects for Normandy?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, the Minsk accords are very much alive, and we remain supportive of them. On Ukraine’s recognition of support from the United Kingdom, that is firmly acknowledged by President Zelensky and his team. Indeed, when he visited the United Kingdom last year, I also met his Foreign Minister; they all recognise the strong support the United Kingdom continues to provide Ukraine in protecting its sovereignty and by continuing to implore Russia to withdraw from Crimea. Crimea is occupied territory; Russia should withdraw.

[Lord Collins of Highbury (Lab)]

My Lords, the threats and risks are clear, and the case for transatlantic co-operation cannot be overstated. Strong backing for President Biden’s bid for a summit is vital. When he spoke with President Putin earlier this week, he raised cyber intrusions and election interference. The Russia report called for a common international approach on Russia’s malicious cyberactivity, so what action is the Minister taking to support a common international approach on this, including through strengthening actions with the United States? Will we match the sanctions of the United States or sit back and wait?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, we fully engage with the United States. The noble Lord is correct that President Biden spoke with President Putin on 13 April. Equally, we have been engaged in a large degree of diplomacy, both through NATO and directly with our allies, including the United States. We are fully aligned with the objectives behind the approach of the United States and work very closely with it. On the specific issue, as I said earlier, a formal announcement is due shortly from the United States, but we are working in a very co-ordinated fashion with it.

[Baroness Northover (LD)]

My Lords, the integrated review claims that we

“will remain the leading European Ally in NATO, working with Allies to deter … threats … particularly from Russia”.

Are we playing a convening or a pivotal role in this instance?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, we continue to play a pivotal role in the NATO alliance, to which we are strong contributors in both strategy and financing. That will continue to be the case. We are centrally involved in the discussions around the current situation we are seeing in eastern Ukraine.

[Lord Dobbs (Con) [V]]

My Lords, as Washington’s closest ally, can my noble friend confirm that the Biden Administration are consulting us and other NATO allies rather than simply informing us as to whether they intend to send warships into the Black Sea? In strategic terms, is it not vital that we ensure the Black Sea remains an international waterway rather than watch it turn into a Russian lake?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, I agree with my noble friend’s second point in the sense that we continue to work with our NATO partners to ensure exactly that free operation in the Black Sea. On his earlier point, consultation is very much at the centre of the approach of the United States with its NATO allies, including the United Kingdom. As I alluded to earlier, my right honourable friend the Foreign Secretary was in Brussels yesterday, together with the United States and Secretary of State Blinken, to discuss Ukraine among other key priorities for NATO.

[Baroness Wheatcroft (CB) [V]]

My Lords, the Integrated Review of Security, Defence, Development and Foreign Policy, published last month, makes much of the UK’s new freedom to pursue different economic and political approaches to those of the EU, but does the Minister agree that, when the threat is such as that posed by Russia to Ukraine, so close to Europe, we should not stand alone—where we will be weak—but work jointly with our EU neighbours?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, I agree with my noble friend. We are doing exactly that through the NATO alliance. As I said in my original Answer, the Foreign Secretary has engaged directly with key European partners, including France and Germany, and Italy joined various discussions in that respect.

[Lord Lancaster of Kimbolton (Con)]

My Lords, I was fortunate to visit Ukraine on several occasions to witness the training support that the UK Government have been giving the Ukrainian military. To date, that training has been defensive and non-lethal in nature—for example, first aid training or counter-IED training. Can my noble friend reassure me that in future the UK will not necessarily feel obliged to follow those constraints and will consider any reasonable request from the Ukrainian Government for support?

--- Later in debate ---

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

I recognise the role my noble friend played in this respect in his previous role as Minister for the Armed Forces. UK military support for Ukraine, as he will be aware, covers training delivered through Operation ORBITAL. This has been extended, resulting in training as well as maritime training initiatives. I note what my noble friend says. We are working very closely with not just Ukraine but our NATO allies to ensure that an appropriate response is given at the appropriate time.

[Lord McConnell of Glenscorrodale (Lab)]

My Lords, in addition to combating Russian aggression, support for improved governance and strong institutions in Ukraine—helping it build a proper democracy—is vital. Is the UK currently financially supporting any projects run by the UN, the OSCE or others in Ukraine? If so, will they be affected by the cut to overseas development assistance that the Government have announced?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, we are working very closely with Ukraine, and not just in providing training support for its defence requirements. The noble Lord is right that we have been working; indeed, I remember that in my first role as Communities Minister—going back a bit to 2013—one of my international engagements was with Ukraine, about building local government structures. That continues to be the case; we work very closely with President Zelensky and his team.

[Lord Benyon (Con) [V]]

My Lords, egregious human rights violations and breaches of international law by murderous and kleptocratic regimes such as that in Russia can be responded to by using our relatively new Magnitsky legislation. Will my noble friend commit to using this legislation for such malign actions if they occur in the ongoing conflict in Ukraine?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, I agree with my noble friend; we are working on a range of issues around supporting human rights in support of Ukraine’s efforts, including in Crimea. We provide specific projects to groups supporting the rights of the citizens of Crimea. The United Kingdom has also contributed £700,000 to the UN Human Rights Monitoring Mission. On sanctions, I agree with my noble friend inasmuch as the whole basis of the governance structure of the sanctions is to call out egregious abuses of human rights. Where necessary, we have exercised them. We keep all matters under review, but I cannot speculate at this juncture about any future action we may take.

[The Deputy Speaker (Baroness Fookes) (Con)]

My Lords, all supplementary questions have been asked.

St Vincent: Volcanic Eruption

Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon Excerpts

Wednesday 14th April 2021 Lords Chamber

[Lord Boateng]

To ask Her Majesty’s Government what assessment they have made of the (1) humanitarian, and (2) environmental, impact of the recent volcanic eruption on the island of St Vincent; and what representations they have made to the government of St Vincent and the Grenadines regarding aid.

[The Minister of State, Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office (Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon) (Con)]

My Lords, I am sure I speak for the whole House in saying our thoughts and prayers are with those impacted and affected by the shocking volcanic eruption in St Vincent. We, the United Kingdom, have pledged, and I have personally approved and ensured, £200,000 to the Caribbean Disaster Emergency Management Agency—CDEMA—to help to address the immediate humanitarian impact. This will be used for emergency supplies and other immediate needs, including to allow technical experts to support relief efforts on the ground, support emergency telecommunications and restore critical lifeline facilities. We stand ready to look at further support.

[Lord Boateng (Lab)]

My Lords, while thanking the Minister, we can and must do more. I have been in touch with St Vincent and Barbados overnight. The position is that ash continues to fall, and there is a shortage of water. The reality on the ground is of the loss of livelihoods and a continuing threat to life. This is a major environmental and humanitarian emergency, and £200,000 will not cut it. The CDEMA needs technical support. I hope the Minister will authorise that a team go out from the UK to assess the needs. It needs help with the field hospital. Barbados is taking a lead, and is responsible for the emergency relief in the area, but it is hard pressed, and the time has come for this country to act. After all, the prosperity of these islands was based on the labour and sugar of those islands. They deserve more than £200,000.

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, first and foremost, let me assure the noble Lord that I, too, am in touch with the authorities. Even this morning, I spoke to the high commissioner of St Vincent and the Grenadines and assured him of the initial support we gave, which, as I outlined, is specifically for emergency support. The noble Lord rightly articulates the importance of technical support. We are already providing that; we are working closely, including with some of our overseas territories. The noble Lord will be aware of the challenges that Montserrat faced two decades ago and, based on that experience, we are working directly with the Montserrat authorities. We have a volcanologist already on the ground supporting relief efforts, and we are providing technical support. This was the initial, immediate response that we gave last week. There has been some negative press. The only reason why we have not articulated the number of steps we are taking, as the noble Lord would expect, is the current respect and reverence we owe to the demise of the Duke of Edinburgh. However, we are supporting fully the authorities on the ground in St Vincent and the Grenadines and stand ready to offer further support.

[Lord West of Spithead (Lab)]

My Lords, we have a ship based in the Caribbean specifically for disaster relief. Ships, of course, can make fresh water and they have engineers and all sorts of things needed for disaster relief. I am amazed that it does not seem that this ship, HMS “Medway”, is working in the Grenadines at the moment. Of course, because she is not a destroyer or a frigate, she does not have an organic helicopter, which is very useful in disaster relief circumstances. Are we going to airlift out a helicopter for her and when will she be working in the islands, assisting those who need so much help?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, the noble Lord is right to point out that we have a permanent presence in the Caribbean and work very closely with the relief organisation CDEMA. We have invested, since 2017, on specific relief efforts, not just for the overseas territories but for the Caribbean. I note what he has said and we stand ready to provide whatever assistance is required, not only to St Vincent and the Grenadines but to Barbados as well. On the specific issue of aircraft and helicopters in the area, the volcanic ash over both islands at the moment is causing an added challenge. But I assure all noble Lords that we are working closely with the authorities on the ground to see what further assistance can be provided.

[Baroness Northover (LD)]

My Lords, we understand that only those who have been vaccinated are being evacuated, potentially leaving behind children, young people and others. What engagement are we having with the Government of St Vincent and the Grenadines, and the WHO, to ensure that all who are vulnerable can be evacuated?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, the noble Baroness is right to point to the issue of vaccinations. Currently, about 12% of the population in St Vincent has been vaccinated and there is a lot of reluctance to have vaccinations. She may be aware that Prime Minister Gonsalves announced on 12 April that their Government will not be looking at evacuating through cruise ships. There are green zones on the islands, which are currently being used to house about 3,700 people who have fled their homes, while about 16,000 are being sheltered by families and friends. There is now a significant number of vaccines on island; the great challenge—and again, in my conversations this morning, I offered any learnings we could bring to address the issue—is the reluctance of the population to be vaccinated.

[The Earl of Shrewsbury (Con)]

My Lords, is my noble friend aware that as a teenager I lived in St Vincent, at Calliaqua? It is the most magical place, with delightful people. I experienced a hurricane there and was nearby when La Soufrière blew her top last time. It is not a wealthy area by any means. The main sources of income are agriculture and tourism; both have been devastated by this natural disaster. It will take a long time for the place to recover, as it will the islands around there. Agriculture, especially, will take a while to recover, because of the thick covering of volcanic ash. We must help these islands in every way we possibly can, whether financially or with military personnel, or a combination of both, but we must help them all.

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, I welcome the insights that my noble friend has provided. I reassure him that we are working very closely in any support we can provide. The noble Lord, Lord West, asked about HMS “Medway”. To be quite specific, prior to the volcanic eruption that vessel was undergoing routine operational updates and repairs. That is why it has not been immediately deployed, but I assure him that it is one of the immediate questions I have raised. I emphasise again that we are working directly with the authorities on the ground, whether it is with technical or long-term support. I have visited Montserrat and seen the impact of a volcano that erupted more than 20 years ago; the fact is that its impact is still felt today. We seek to provide long-term support and, I assure noble Lords, we will do just that.

[The Earl of Devon (CB) [V]]

My Lords, what direct contact have the Government made with any NGOs working on the ground in St Vincent, particularly local churches working with evacuees, such as Marion House in Kingstown and St Vincent Girls’ High School?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, our primary contact is through the relief efforts of the International Committee of the Red Cross. As for specific liaisons on the ground, we are working directly with CDEMA and the St Vincent and the Grenadines government authorities.

[The Lord Bishop of St Albans [V]]

My Lords, the diocese of the Windward Islands is linked with my diocese here in St Albans and I have been in touch with the bishop, Bishop Leopold Friday, overnight. The churches are already doing a huge amount of work and stand ready to help in any way they can, not least because here in my diocese, in Luton, we also have a large Vincentian population and this matter is affecting people’s families. If there are people who are forced to evacuate from the country, will the Government consider a temporary resettlement scheme for those with family links here in the UK?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, I fully acknowledge what the right reverend Prelate says about the important role that church authorities play. Indeed, on the question raised by the noble Baroness, Lady Northover, about the vaccine rollout, I suggested to the high commissioner this morning how the churches can also assist. On the right reverend Prelate’s wider question about long-term impacts, we will obviously remain engaged with the authorities of St Vincent and the Grenadines about their medium and long-term requirements.

[Lord Collins of Highbury (Lab)]

My Lords, I share my noble friend’s concern at the amount of the initial response on the humanitarian effort but, of course, it is not just a humanitarian effort. At the request of Prime Minister Ralph Gonsalves, the UN Environment Programme is now developing and implementing a debris management plan to clean up ash and promote environmental health and safety in the longer term, so that we are getting the economy back on track as soon as possible. Are we working with the United Nations Environment Programme, and have we offered professional support to that programme in the near future?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, we are working with all international agencies, including the United Nations, but I reiterate that the lead agency on disaster response is CDEMA. We are working constructively on all elements including immediate responses, medium-term responses and additional responses that will be required.

[Lord Randall of Uxbridge (Con) [V]]

My Lords, I declare my interest as a vice-president of Fauna & Flora International. While I completely understand that the priority must be the safety of the islanders and their economy, may I gently remind my noble friend of the unique endemic wildlife, such as the St Vincent parrot? Will Her Majesty’s Government consider what assistance they can offer in due course to the various NGOs to ensure that the endemic wildlife of the island is conserved and protected from any potential accidental introduction of non-native species by those providing much-needed relief to the island?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, I always welcome gentle reminders from my noble friend. I assure him that we recognise the importance of biodiversity, especially in the context of climate change and our chairmanship of COP26. He made some notable suggestions and recommendations and I certainly look to take them forward.

[Lord Foulkes of Cumnock (Lab Co-op)]

My Lords, the Minister mentioned Montserrat. When Montserrat was devastated by that volcanic eruption, I was the Minister at DfID dealing with it and we sent out emergency relief teams immediately to help. Why is that not being done now? We also committed long-term help, not of thousands of pounds but of millions. Are these poor people going to be the first victims of the cuts in DfID assistance?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, while I also welcome the valuable insights of the noble Lord, first and foremost, I assure him that we have given an immediate response, as I said to the noble Lord, Lord Boateng. What we have announced thus far is immediate support. The reason we are not sending out direct support is because we have invested, since 2017—I can speak with some insight and expertise—in CDEMA and in the structures in the Caribbean and the region to ensure that the response can be as effective and co-ordinated as possible. The noble Lord talks about Montserrat, which I continue to support. Indeed, it is this Government who have provided close to £30 million of capital spending to continue to help Montserrat. We are also supporting, through the Caribbean Development Bank, specific projects including roadbuilding in St Vincent. That kind of long-term infrastructure support will also continue.

[The Deputy Speaker (Baroness Garden of Frognal) (LD)]

My Lords, I am happy to say that all supplementary questions have been asked and answered.

Chinese Government Sanctions on UK Citizens

Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon Excerpts

Wednesday 14th April 2021 Lords Chamber

[Lord Collins of Highbury (Lab)]

My Lords, I believe that all sides of the House stand in solidarity with the UK nationals—including Members of both Houses—who have been sanctioned by the Communist Party of China as a consequence of calling out the genocide and horrendous human rights abuses. In standing in solidarity, we must also offer support. I understand that a number of individuals have been subject to cyberattacks; can the noble Lord tell us what support we are giving on that? Is our infrastructure sufficiently resilient to any further such attacks? Can he also say why at this time the Government are reopening the two UK-China government investment forums, which were closed when Beijing introduced the Hong Kong national security law last summer?

[The Minister of State, Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office (Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon) (Con)]

My Lords, I agree totally with the noble Lord, Lord Collins, about our solidarity and our support for Members of both Houses of Parliament, and equally those beyond it, who have been sanctioned. Ironically, those who have stood up for human rights are having their rights suppressed for speaking out. We absolutely support them. On the specific areas the noble Lord raised about support being given to Members of both the House of Commons and the House of Lords, as well as those outside Parliament, the Prime Minister and the Foreign Secretary have met with parliamentarians who have been sanctioned by the Chinese Government. Equally, I have led on direct engagement with those individuals outside Parliament, including organisations, who have been impacted. We have direct points of contact in the FCDO to offer them whatever support they require. There is active engagement and we are ready to support whatever concerns or issues of security, cyber or otherwise, they may have. On our trading relationship with China, no active trade agreement is currently being negotiated. On the specifics of the investment forum, if there are further details I can share with the noble Lord I will of course do so.

[Lord Forsyth of Drumlean (Con) [V]]

My Lords, given that the major parties in the European Parliament have said that until sanctions against their MEPs are listed they will not ratify the EU comprehensive investment agreement with China, is it to be business as usual for us while UK parliamentarians are being sanctioned for exposing genocide in Xinjiang? Will my noble friend confirm for the record that this country would never make bilateral trade agreements with any country guilty of genocide?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, first, let me assure my noble friend that, while acknowledging that we have important trade between the UK and China, we are not currently negotiating a trade agreement with China. On the issue of genocide, which has been debated in your Lordships’ House as well as the other place, we have already made the Government’s position absolutely clear: that is a determination for the courts and there is a due process to go through before that determination is made. But I can share with my noble friend the actions we have taken, notwithstanding that issue being determined or otherwise. We have acted and led on action against China, both with direct sanctions, as we have imposed recently against senior government officials in Xinjiang, as well as in multilateral fora such as the Human Rights Council, where we have seen increased support for the United Kingdom’s position and statements.

[Lord Alton of Liverpool (CB) [V]]

My Lords, the Minister will know that the Chinese Communist Party’s sanctions against parliamentarians should always be seen in the context of the harrowing evidence of genocide and human rights violations given by courageous witnesses to the All-Party Parliamentary Groups of which I am an officer. Parliamentarians must not be cowed or intimidated into silence or losing focus on those substantive issues because of sanctions. In a week in which young Joshua Wong, who has spoken in your Lordships’ House, has seen his prison sentence extended, did the Minister also see that 75 year-old Koo Sze-yiu, a pro-democracy campaigner who has already served 11 prison sentences, said when defending himself in a Hong Kong Court that he would not seek mitigation or leniency for treatment of his cancer as he fully intended to continue protesting? He said:

“The next time, I will deliberately break the National Security Law. Do not be lenient or take pity on me.”


Does not such courageous dignity demonstrate to the CCP that it has united East and West, young and old and parliamentarians from all political traditions? Was not Liu Xiaobo, who suffered at the CCP’s hands, right when he said:

“Freedom of expression is the foundation of human rights, the source of humanity and the mother of truth”?

--- Later in debate ---

[The Deputy Speaker (Baroness Garden of Frognal) (LD)]

I remind noble Lords of the need for brevity.

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lord, in agreeing with much of what the noble Lord said, let me assure him that we totally and utterly condemn China’s attempt to silence those highlighting human rights abuses, be they at home or abroad.

[Baroness Blackstone (Ind Lab)]

My Lords, I am grateful to the Government for the support they have given to those who have been sanctioned by China. It is vital that we defend the right to freedom of speech, by parliamentarians in particular but by academics and others as well. Last time the Uighurs were discussed in the House, the Minister agreed to write to me about why the head of the Communist Party in Xinjiang province, who has overseen the atrocious abuses there, was not included in the UK’s list of those sanctioned. As I have not received a letter, will he answer my question now?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, first, on the letter and the response to a specific question, I shall of course follow up on that with my officials. Without speculating on future sanctions, an evidence threshold needs to be met that is tested robustly before we apply sanctions to any given individual.

[Lord Campbell of Pittenweem (LD)]

My Lords, the Minister will recall that yesterday I asked him a question based on a passage at page 63 of the Integrated Review, which said:

“We will not hesitate to stand up for our values.”


Is that not exactly what our colleagues in this House and the other place have been doing, which, as a consequence, entitles them to our unanimous and unfailing support?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, I agree with the noble Lord, and that is exactly what the Government are doing.

[Lord Polak (Con)]

My Lords, on 23 February I said in this House that the Uighurs were calling out for justice and freedom. Our colleagues have been sanctioned by the same Chinese authorities who deny the Uighurs justice and freedom. The Minister in the other place, Nigel Adams, said yesterday:

“The Prime Minister has made it clear that freedom of parliamentarians to speak out … is fundamental”—[Official Report, Commons, 13/4/21; col. 165.]


and that the Government will stand firmly with them. So what does “standing firmly” actually mean, and how does it translate into real action against the Chinese authorities—not nice words, but real action?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, first, the solidarity that has been shown in your Lordships’ House and the other place with colleagues across both Houses and beyond reflects the unity of purpose and action in support of those who have been sanctioned. The Government are offering direct support, as I said in response to an earlier question, to all those organisations and individuals who have been sanctioned, and we will continue to do so. Because there is ambiguity in what the sanctions actually mean for those individuals, we continue to press the Chinese authorities for that further detail.

[Lord Walney (Non-Afl) [V]]

While these outrageous sanctions persist, is it not incumbent on Ministers—and, indeed, all parliamentarians—to formally suspend any co-operation in the various bilateral mechanisms that we have between parliamentarians in the UK and China, such as the people to people dialogue and the UK-China young leaders bilaterals?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, I can speak from my experience as a government Minister, and we have been very clear in calling out the human rights abuses in China. We have called out the issues within Hong Kong. However, equally, I recognise, as we do in multilateral fora, that there are issues such as the environment and conflicts such as the situation in Myanmar which require direct dialogue with the Chinese authorities, because they are part of the solution. There are many things we disagree on but, equally, we recognise the important role China continues to play in the international community.

[Baroness Bennett of Manor Castle (GP) [V]]

My Lords, I declare my position as the co-chair of the All-Party Parliamentary Group on Hong Kong. The sanctions on UK citizens make it very clear that the Chinese Government are seeking to silence democratic dissent and free speech around the world. They are also doing that more and more in Hong Kong. I am sure the Minister is aware of reports of plans to criminalise any collective call to leave ballot papers blank or otherwise spoiled in internal elections. Are the Government taking any steps to make representations on this, to highlight it or take any action regarding it?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, the noble Baroness is right to raise the recent decisions taken by the Chinese authorities about the future operation of the legislative bodies within Hong Kong. She also rightly raises a number of other concerns, and I can assure her that we are raising them directly. The implications are such that the democratic right and will of the people of Hong Kong is being totally and utterly diluted and denied, and we will continue to defend that right. Let us not forget that China is also party to an agreement to protect the democratic will of the people of Hong Kong. It should stand by that international agreement. It is lodged with the UN. I assure the noble Baroness that, whether it is in international fora or directly with the Chinese, we will continue to raise that, because the rights of the people of Hong Kong matter to us all.

[The Deputy Speaker (Baroness Garden of Frognal) (LD)]

My Lords, the time allowed for this Question has now elapsed, and I apologise to the noble Baroness, Lady Helic, that there was not time to take her question.

We now come to questions on a Statement made in the House of Commons on Tuesday 23 March, on the new plan for immigration. I first call the Front Bench speakers, starting with the noble Lord, Lord Rosser.

Clergy: EU Visas and Residence Permits

Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon Excerpts

Tuesday 13th April 2021 Lords Chamber

[The Lord Bishop of Leeds]

To ask Her Majesty’s Government what assessment they have made of the impact of new (1) visa, and (2) residence, permit regimes for United Kingdom citizens working in the European Union on the numbers of Church of England clergy securing such permits.

[The Minister of State, Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office (Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon) (Con)]

My Lords, the withdrawal agreement protects UK nationals who were lawfully resident in the EU before the end of the transition period. Thirteen member states require them to apply for new resident status. British citizens travelling to the EU for work may need visas or permits from relevant member states. Member states are, of course, responsible for implementing their domestic immigration systems, and the UK does not hold information on the specific occupations of UK nationals abroad.

[The Lord Bishop of Leeds [V]]

I thank the Minister for his Answer. This is of course a question that goes wider than the Church, but let us consider a diocese in Europe supporting UK citizens which is now unable to assign clergy for locum duty, for example, because of the lack of clarity regarding work permits. How do the Government intend to support UK citizens in what was an inevitable outcome of the withdrawal agreement? Can the Minister give any practical encouragement to the Bishop in Europe as he seeks to resolve these issues?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, I assure the right reverend Prelate that, as he may well be aware, we are working very closely with the Church of England—for example, on citizens’ rights—as it is one of the implementing partners of the UK nationals support fund. In addition, through our embassies, we are providing direct and relevant support as well as an extensive communications programme for all citizens across the European Union.

[Lord McConnell of Glenscorrodale (Lab)]

My Lords, in questioning the Minister for the Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office, I hope that it is appropriate to say that my noble friend Lady Kinnock of Holyhead was an inspirational internationalist all her working life. Her lifetime of public service has helped changed lives throughout the world and we wish her well in her retirement. On the issue of visas for clergy, the Church of Scotland also has deep concerns about the position of locum ministers serving congregations throughout the European Union following Brexit. It also has concerns about split ministries, where the minister involved may be part-time in two different, perhaps neighbouring, countries, in two different churches. Will the Government guarantee to involve the Church of Scotland in any discussions about resolving these issues, including, of course, other Churches and faiths?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, I can of course assure the noble Lord that we will work with all organisations, including the Church of Scotland. If there are specific issues that he wishes to raise with me, I will be happy to answer them directly.

[Lord Cormack (Con)]

My Lords, are the problems experienced by the Churches not yet a further example of the increasingly tetchy relationship between the UK and the EU? I commend to my noble friend the very perceptive article in today’s Times by our noble friend Lord Hague, who points out how very important it is that we get on well and constructively? We have not left Europe. These are our friends and neighbours; it is incumbent upon them, and us, to ensure that we have a relationship which enables the normal decencies of life to be observed.

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

I agree with my noble friend Lord Cormack, and indeed with my noble friend Lord Hague. That is why we work very constructively, including on citizens’ rights, with the European Union. The Specialised Committee on Citizens’ Rights oversees the implementation and application of citizens’ rights; this is part of, and central to, the withdrawal agreement.

[Baroness Ludford (LD) [V]]

My Lords, the loss of free movement has harmed the lives and livelihoods of so many. Given that families and the ability to work have been severely impacted by the pandemic, are the Government considering alleviating one aspect of the childcare crisis—namely, the loss of au pairs—by providing a usable, dedicated visa route, so that this cultural exchange programme, which also assists families, can continue?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, the noble Baroness will be aware that, as part of the trade and co-operation agreement, we have agreed various protocols. There is not a specific resolution for each and every profession but, as I said in response to an earlier question, we are looking at this very constructively with our European Union friends to ensure that we can unlock any issues or particular challenges for workers, as the noble Baroness has suggested.

[Lord Flight (Con)]

My Lords, many religious communities are not yet aware of how they will be affected by Brexit. They have relied on EU members to fill temporary posts; this will be hit when free movement ends on 31 December, along with routes for the previous temporary priest cover for summer holidays, for example. They can no longer sponsor a worker in the tier 5 category to fill the post of temporary minister of religion. Do the Government anticipate that the basis of an individual’s visits will fall within the visitors’ visa rules?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, I will write to my noble friend on the specific question he raises and, of course, place a copy in the library.

[Lord Singh of Wimbledon (CB) [V]]

My Lords, the Question reminds us that we have inextricable ties of culture, trade and even religion with our former partners in the European Union. Does the Minister agree that, rather than looking selectively to the concerns of Anglicans, we should be looking to better working arrangements for all branches of Christianity, as well as other faiths and cultures, in reducing onerous visa requirements and enhancing better living and working arrangements with our former partners in Europe?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, I will first perhaps correct the noble Lord by saying that we do not regard the European Union as former partners; we continue to have a strong partnership with the European Union on a range of different issues. On the issues of religion and communities across Europe, yes, diversity is a strength of the continent and we should encourage those who wish to visit different parts of it. In this regard, the noble Lord will be aware of what has already been agreed: the ability to visit different countries on a rolling basis without the necessity of visa requirements. Anyone wishing to visit the European Union from the UK can do so for 90 days on a revolving 180-day basis.

[Lord Collins of Highbury (Lab)]

My Lords, I would like to broaden the Question a little. The Church of England has a long and established history of engaging with other Churches in Europe and further afield, as well as with other faith groups. One campaign that it is involved in is VaccinAid, a campaign that aims to help to fund Covid vaccine rollout. What has the Government’s response been to ensure that that programme continues and that the Church of England’s practical support in Europe and further afield is aided?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, as I have already said in response to an earlier question, we are working very closely with the Church of England. We have set up a specific fund that helps to support UK citizens and are working with partner organisations, of which the Church of England is one, on the programme that the noble Lord has raised. I will write to him on the specifics of that.

[Lord Wallace of Saltaire (LD) [V]]

My Lords, I want to press the Minister on reciprocity. There are expatriate communities in this country that also have religious services—the Swedish Church in London, in which I have sung, and other Lutherans; French and Polish congregations; Jewish congregations with visitors from the continent—so there are clear mutual interests. Are we negotiating on the basis of reciprocity or are we asking for greater freedom of access for UK citizens in the EU than for EU citizens in the UK?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, the noble Lord raises an important issue on reciprocal arrangements. There are a whole range of areas where we have seen reciprocal arrangements put in place. The whole purpose of the Specialised Committee on Citizens’ Rights, which is supported both by the UK and by the EU—officials are meeting regularly—is to unlock those very issues that can provide for the kind of access that he is suggesting.

[Baroness Warsi (Con) [V]]

My Lords, the questions that I was going to ask have been answered by the Minister in response to the noble Lords, Lord Collins and Lord Wallace, so I am going to allow the noble Baroness, Lady Janke, to ask her question within the allocated time.

[Baroness Janke (LD) [V]]

My Lords, French Minister Clément Beaune recently said in a parliamentary answer that it could be possible to find an opt-out or more flexibility on the 90-day rule for visa-free travel in Europe but that the British had little appetite for negotiating this point. What does the Minister make of that? What action are the Government taking to get a fair deal for UK citizens on visa-free travel in European countries?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, I believe that what we have negotiated is a fair deal. It allows anyone from the UK to travel to the European Union—the Schengen area specifically—for 90 days without the requirement of a visa. This period extends 90 days for a period of up to 180 days on a rolling basis. In essence, 50% of that 180 days can be on a visa-free basis. That is a substantive agreement reached with the European Union. On the question of rights, whether of UK citizens within the EU or otherwise, as Members will be aware, two different systems operate, where in certain instances UK citizens have to declare their intent to reregister, while other instances are provided through the natural law applying to existing UK citizens. On both processes, both streams of work are very efficient and effective, and where we find a challenge there is a joint committee to try to resolve those issues.

[The Lord Speaker (Lord Fowler)]

My Lords, thanks to the generosity of the noble Baroness, Lady Warsi, all supplementary questions have been asked and we can move to the third Oral Question.

China: Convictions of Democracy Campaigners in Hong Kong

Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon Excerpts

Tuesday 13th April 2021 Lords Chamber

[Lord Jordan]

To ask Her Majesty’s Government what representations they have made (1) to the authorities in Hong Kong, and (2) to the government of China, about the recent convictions of democracy campaigners in Hong Kong.

[The Minister of State, Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office (Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon) (Con)]

My Lords, we remain deeply concerned about the targeting of politicians and activists in Hong Kong and are following these cases closely. The apparent focus of the Hong Kong and Chinese authorities seems now to be on retribution against political opposition and the silencing of dissent. We continue to raise our concerns directly with the Hong Kong and the Chinese authorities, including this week with senior members of the Hong Kong Government. We urge the Chinese and Hong Kong authorities to respect the rights and freedoms enshrined in the joint declaration.

[Lord Jordan (Lab) [V]]

I thank the Minister for his reply. This Friday my friend Lee Cheuk-yan, leader of Hong Kong’s independent trade unions, along with other democrats, is likely to be sentenced to years in jail for the crimes of peaceful protest, exercising freedom of assembly and freedom of speech. China’s blatant disregard for agreements and promises and its suppressions of freedoms must be halted.

I ask the UK Government, as a signatory of the Sino-British joint declaration, to lodge a formal complaint at the UN International Court of Justice against China for violating its international obligation. As China’s prosperity is built on trade with the west, I ask the UK Government, together with the United States and the European Union, jointly to tell China that if it continues to deny people their basic human rights, trading arrangements will be put at risk.

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

On the general thrust of the noble Lord’s suggestions, I assure him once again that we are not just working directly in raising these issues with the Chinese and Hong Kong authorities but are also doing it on a range of different issues with our key partners, including the United States and European Union.

On the ICJ, the noble Lord will be aware that the application of any decision of the ICJ requires the agreement of both parties. I suggest that in this instance China may not agree with any decision taken at that level. We are keeping the situation, which is fluid, under review to see what further steps we can take.

[Baroness Kennedy of The Shaws (Lab)]

My Lords, may I first take this opportunity to thank the Minister. Within hours of discovering that I had been sanctioned by the Chinese for my work in this House and beyond in relation to the gross human rights abuses perpetrated by the Chinese Government against the Uighurs and the people in Hong Kong, he was a great support.

Can the Minister say whether the decision by the Chinese Government to sanction UK parliamentarians and convict—as we have heard from the noble Lord, Lord Jordan—decent, good pro-democracy activists in Hong Kong will finally lead to the announcement of Magnitsky sanctions on Hong Kong officials? They are clearly responsible for the dismantling of the city’s autonomy and for covering up human rights abuses.

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

I am sure I speak for every Member of your Lordship’s House in paying tribute to the noble Baroness and other parliamentarians, as well as others outside Parliament, who continue to raise their voices in the interests of the Uighur community within China.

On the noble Baroness’s specific points about Magnitsky sanctions, while I cannot speculate, recently we have taken specific steps against those operating in Xinjiang, as I am sure the noble Baroness acknowledges. As I said earlier to the noble Lord, Lord Jordan, we continue to see what further steps we may take.

[Baroness Northover (LD)]

My Lords, it is welcome that BNO passport holders have a route to UK citizenship, but the current crackdown shows how vital it is that younger people who may not have that entitlement are also protected. What action is being taken to extend these rights to those who do not hold BNO passports?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

I will first share with the noble Baroness that the BNO passport route and applications for BNO are functioning smoothly and effectively. On her second point about those who do not qualify for BNO status, if there are specific individuals who raise issues of concern and security and claim asylum within the confines of the United Kingdom, we look at those cases directly and individually.

[Lord Garnier (Con)]

My Lords, I agree with the noble Lord, Lord Jordan, and the noble Baroness, Lady Kennedy, whose work in this field is hugely appreciated and acknowledged. Will the Government not only to make representations but, with our allies, to take real and practical steps to bring home to the PCR and the Carrie Lam Administration in Hong Kong that repression will not work? It makes them look ridiculous and should not be pursued.

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

I totally agree with my noble friend’s second point and I assure him that we are working directly with partners. He will be aware that on 9 January the Foreign Secretary released a statement with Australian, Canadian and US counter- parts on the mass arrests. On 13 March the Foreign Secretary issued a statement declaring a breach of the joint declaration. We continue to work with partners on further steps we may need to take.

[Lord Alton of Liverpool (CB) [V]]

My Lords, I join the noble Baroness, Lady Kennedy, in thanking the Minister for his support following the imposition of sanctions. I declare that I serve as vice-chair of the All-Party Parliamentary Group on Hong Kong and as a patron of Hong Kong Watch. Has the Minister noted that, following the Chinese Communist Party’s sanctions on European Union parliamentarians, major parties in the European Parliament have indicated that until sanctions against their MEPs are lifted they will not ratify the European Union comprehensive agreement on investment with China? While sanctions attempting to curtail free speech are imposed on UK parliamentarians, are the Government willing to make a commitment today to take similar action and see how concerted measures can be taken to ensure that parliamentary free speech is not impeded?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, I note what the noble Lord has said. Again, I pay tribute to his work in standing up for the rights of people in both China and Hong Kong. We will continue to observe and work with our partners to see what further steps we can take. I cannot answer the specific point he raised on trade, and nor would he expect me to at this juncture, but, in terms of our relationship, we are keeping all things actively under review.

[Lord Collins of Highbury (Lab)]

My Lords, I also pay tribute to my noble friend for the terrific work that she has done and for standing up to the bullies of the Chinese Communist Party. I also pay tribute to the noble Lord, Lord Alton. It is important that we are able to respond quickly and effectively, and that means working with our allies. It is now more than a month since the US applied sanctions to Hong Kong officials. Why is it taking us so long? Why are we not working with the United States to ensure that these bullies are stood up to?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, I assure the noble Lord that we are working with the United States. However, in applying any sanctions to anyone across the world, or to any organisation, we need to ensure that, with the robust test that we have set up with the Sanctions and Anti-Money Laundering Act, they are fully justified and can be defended.

[Lord Campbell of Pittenweem (LD)]

My Lords, on page 63 of the integrated review the Government say:

“We will not hesitate to stand up for our values and our interests where they are threatened, or when China acts in breach of existing agreements.”


How successful have we been in standing up for our values and interests in relation to Hong Kong?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, we have been successful. For example, following the action we have taken in the context of the Human Rights Council, there has been an increase in the number of countries supporting the United Kingdom’s statements, not just on Hong Kong but on Xinjiang as well.

[Baroness Stuart of Edgbaston (Non-Afl)]

My Lords, domestic Ministers are currently making preparations across various departments to welcome Hong Kong British national (overseas) passport holders and to ensure that their settlement works well across the four nations. However, I am concerned about some of the families and friends that they leave behind in Hong Kong. Is the Foreign Office making representations to ensure that the families of any of those who take up visas and settle in the UK are not facing retribution?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, I reassure the noble Baroness that BNO status is a generous scheme and extends to family members. As I said in answer to the noble Baroness, Lady Northover, if specific issues arise with individuals who do not qualify, wherever they may be in the world, the United Kingdom has always been generous in providing protection and I am sure will continue to be so.

[Lord Blencathra (Con)]

My Lords, does my noble friend recognise that the obliteration of democracy in Hong Kong and the persecution of the innocent is simply following the playbook of Germany in the 1930s? A one-party state is tolerating no dissent, treating Taiwan like the Sudetenland, threatening its neighbours, exterminating a religious minority and building a massive military machine preparing for war. Will my noble friend the Minister please tell China that we will form every alliance possible in the world to challenge it?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, I say to my noble friend that Hong Kong’s prosperity and its way of life rely on the respect for fundamental freedoms, an independent judiciary and the rule of law. I further assure him that we will continue to bring together our international partners—a point made by the noble Lord, Lord Collins—to stand up for the people of Hong Kong, to call out the violation of their rights and to hold China to the obligations it freely assumed under international law. We will continue to work in that respect.

[The Lord Speaker (Lord Fowler)]

My Lords, the time allowed for this Question has elapsed and it brings Question Time to an end. We move now to the Private Notice Question on Northern Ireland and the Good Friday agreement. I call the noble Baroness, Lady Ritchie of Downpatrick.

Bahrain: Human Rights Abuses

Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon Excerpts

Thursday 25th March 2021 Lords Chamber

[Lord Scriven]

To ask Her Majesty’s Government what evidence they have, if any, that the number of human rights abuses in Bahrain has declined in the last two years; and what assessment they have made of the impact of their Integrated Activity Fund on human rights in that country.

[The Minister of State, Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office (Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon) (Con) [V]]

My Lords, as outlined in the 2020 FCDO Human Rights and Democracy report, the UK recognises the challenges that remain in Bahrain. However, along with many international partners, it is our firm belief that, with a calibrated approach to co-operation, we can influence and support positive reform. Change takes time but recent developments in Bahrain, such as the ratification of the corrective justice law for children and the use of alternative sentencing, demonstrate that progress is being made.

[Lord Scriven (LD)]

My Lords, the death sentence retrial of Mohamed Ramadan and Hussain Moosa has been termed “critically flawed” by the International Rehabilitation Council for Torture Victims, as it relied on a Special Investigations Unit investigation that did not meet international standards. Will the Minister stop the shameful defence of the SIU, which does nothing more than whitewash Bahrain’s existing human rights situation?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con) [V]]

My Lords, we—the Minister for the Middle East and I—and the Government are fully aware of the cases that the noble Lord referred to; indeed, we have engaged outside the Chamber on this very issue. As the noble Lord will be aware, the death sentence must be ratified by His Majesty the King of Bahrain. The UK continues to follow this case closely. We have raised the matter repeatedly with the Government of Bahrain and will continue to do so, both in public and privately.

[Lord Collins of Highbury (Lab)]

My Lords, I recently raised with the Minister that Bahrain had detained 13 children, including the seriously ill Sayed Hasan Ameen. In a Written Answer, James Cleverly painted these children as criminals without addressing human rights concerns. BIRD and Human Rights Watch revealed that these children were subjected to physical abuse to coerce their confessions and that Sayed was detained for eight days without vital medication. Despite these findings from credible rights organisations, is the Minister really satisfied with the assurances from Bahrain on their treatment and that medical care was provided?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con) [V]]

I assure the noble Lord that we take this case, as well as any other case, very seriously. We raise these issues directly with the Bahrainis. We should also recognise that progress has been made. I mentioned in my earlier Answer the corrective justice law for children, which will ensure special courts for children, alternative sentencing and rehabilitation. I believe that this brings a positive focus on individual cases. I deal directly with Amnesty International and Human Rights Watch; I raise any cases raised in those meetings directly with the Bahraini authorities.

[Baroness Warsi (Con) [V]]

[Inaudible.]

--- Later in debate ---

[Baroness Northover (LD)]

My Lords, far from what the Minister has said about progress, Amnesty International, Human Rights Watch and the UN have all concluded that human rights abuses have been getting worse in Bahrain over the past few years. So why do the Government still fund training for organisations in Bahrain that are implicated in human rights abuses, such as the Special Investigations Unit?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con) [V]]

My Lords, through the technical support that the United Kingdom provides, we have seen real progress on a broad range of human rights issues. I have referred to the reforms on children, the unified family law, alternative punishments for adults and the creation of oversight bodies. Of course, I do not for a moment accept that the job is done. We continue to work constructively, and I believe that this is paying dividends, and will continue to do so.

[Lord Polak (Con)]

My Lords, the recent publication of the second edition of the Human Rights and Democracy report by the embassy of Bahrain is progress. Together with the amazing, life-saving, UK-like vaccine rollout and being a cornerstone and founding member of the Abraham Accords with the UAE and Israel, it is real progress. In acknowledging that there is still much more to be done, does my noble friend agree that it seems clear that Bahrain is travelling on the right road?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con) [V]]

My Lords, suffice to say that I totally agree with my noble friend. We are seeing progress but there is more to be done, and we are working constructively and engaging with Bahrain on this important agenda.

[Lord Mann (Non-Afl)]

At the start of the 2022 Qatar football World Cup campaign last night, Norwegian players protested about workers’ rights in Qatar. Considering that some of the matches may have to be scheduled in Bahrain because of the increasing size of the World Cup finals, have our representatives in Bahrain made an assessment of the situation on workers’ rights in the country yet?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con) [V]]

My Lords, we have raised this issue directly and seen real progress. When it comes to migrant workers, for example, Bahrain achieved tier 1 status, according to US State Department reports. Indeed, it convened a cross-government meeting on this very issue—the first such one in the Middle East. On vaccines, as raised by my noble friend Lord Polak, we have seen direct distribution and access to vaccines for migrant workers so, again, progress on this front is being made directly in Bahrain.

[Lord Jones of Cheltenham (LD) [V]]

Will the Government advise the Bahrain authorities that the best way for them to win friends is to train all their security officers to behave like human beings, and to abolish the barbaric death penalty, as the state of Virginia did yesterday?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con) [V]]

We welcome the death penalty being abolished, and of course that remains the long-standing position of Her Majesty’s Government. We continue to raise this globally with all partners.

[Lord Bhatia (Non-Afl) [V]]

My Lords, can we stop all exports to Bahrain as a way out of this big dilemma?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con) [V]]

My Lords, I think that the noble Lord talked about stopping exports. I do not believe that that is the correct way forward. Bahrain is an important partner and, as we have seen on this important yet sensitive agenda, there has been progress there. Being a critical and constructive friend is the way forward.

[Lord McColl of Dulwich (Con) [V]]

My Lords, the human rights violations in Bahrain are worrying, but does the Minister agree that the demands to cancel the Formula 1 race to be held there are not likely to help? Should we not be encouraging sporting activities between countries in trying to influence them to eliminate human rights violations?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con) [V]]

I agree with my noble friend’s approach and, as the UK Human Rights Minister, that is exactly the approach I adopt.

[Baroness Bennett of Manor Castle (GP) [V]]

My Lords, following on from the last question, it appears that the Minister took a different approach in 2012, when he signed a letter to the Times that backed calls for Formula 1 not to race in Bahrain due to human rights violations connected to the races there. Now, almost 60 Members of both Houses of Parliament and more than 20 NGOs are calling on Formula 1 to establish an independent commission of inquiry to investigate human rights abuses linked to its races. Will the Minister now agree to support that call?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con) [V]]

My Lords, the noble Baroness referred to a letter from several years ago. It is right that where we have concerns, we should raise them, and I align myself with that. However, we have seen real progress in Bahrain and we should recognise that, while remaining firm and resolute that we will continue to raise human rights concerns as and when they arise, as we do directly with Bahrain both in private and publicly.

[Lord Lancaster of Kimbolton (Con)]

My Lords, I visited Bahrain on numerous occasions as a Defence Minister. Through that persistent engagement, I never hesitated to raise issues such as human rights, as a critical friend. I am pleased that the Gulf Integrated Activity Fund has been used to fund some of the independent human rights organisations in Bahrain, and we have, as my noble friend Lord Polak said, definitely seen progress, although more needs to be done. What has particularly impressed me from the UK perspective is the thoroughness of the OSJA process. Can my noble friend reassure me that the process is refreshed on a regular basis to ensure that our funding is not misused?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con) [V]]

I agree with my noble friend. My right honourable friend James Cleverly, who is the Minister for the Middle East, will do exactly that. We look at all funding not only to the Gulf but elsewhere to ensure that the standards we seek to achieve from those areas are met and that human rights remain paramount in our thinking and progress in this respect.

[The Lord Speaker (Lord Fowler)]

The noble Baroness, Lady Warsi, is still with us and so I can ask her to speak now.

--- Later in debate ---

[Baroness Warsi (Con) [V]]

My Lords, I am grateful to the Lord Speaker. There is no doubt that Bahrain still has a mountain to climb on the issue of human rights. Can my noble friend outline what progress has been made specifically in the past few years and what the involvement of the UK has been in specific programmes to assist in bringing about change?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con) [V]]

My Lords, it takes a great deal to mute my noble friend and I am glad that we have heard from her. As I have already articulated, we have seen the creation of the oversight bodies. The UK has provided technical support. We have seen alternative sentencing, where we have shared experience and insights; the Unified Family Law and the Corrective Justice Law for Children; and the great progress which has been made on migrants’ rights. However, I reiterate that important work remains to be done. I know that this is a concern of many noble Lords and I will continue to engage with your Lordships’ House and the other place to ensure that those concerns are expressed directly to the Government of Bahrain.

[The Lord Speaker (Lord Fowler)]

My Lords, all supplementary questions have now been asked. We move to the next Question.

Yemen

Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon Excerpts

Thursday 25th March 2021 Lords Chamber

[Lord Roberts of Llandudno]

To ask Her Majesty’s Government what steps they are taking to resolve the famine in Yemen.

[The Minister of State, Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office (Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon) (Con) [V]]

My Lords, we remain deeply concerned by the ongoing conflict and risk of famine in Yemen. The United Kingdom is playing a leading role in combating hunger, contributing over £1 billion in aid since the conflict began. To respond to this crisis, in the next financial year, the UK will feed 240,000 of the most vulnerable Yemenis every month and provide one-off cash support for 1.5 million of Yemen’s poorest households. The UK is also providing the Yemeni Government with technical economic support to stabilise the currency, which will help to reduce food prices.

[Lord Roberts of Llandudno (LD) [V]]

By 2018, 85,000 children had starved to death in Yemen. Another 18 million people are on the verge of starvation, and yet we are going to cut overseas aid. Is not the least that we can do to help Yemen and other places to restore aid to its previous level?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con) [V]]

My Lords, we have debated concerns over the ODA reduction on a number of occasions in this House. I appreciate the sentiments expressed but, notwithstanding the nature of the economic outlook that we face, the United Kingdom continues to support our aid efforts around the world, including in Yemen, as I have already said.

[Lord Anderson of Swansea (Lab)]

My Lords, the Minister will surely agree that the Houthis, who control 75% to 80% of the population, are critical to finding a political solution to the problem, more so as the Saudis are seeking an exit. Is there any evidence that the Houthis are responding positively to the new UN peace plan? In particular, are they prepared to facilitate humanitarian access to tackle Covid, cholera and widespread starvation?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con) [V]]

My Lords, we have seen, including in this week, some positive steps from Saudi Arabia, in the nationwide ceasefire that it called for and the opening up of key ports, for both aid and fuel. However, the Houthis’ behaviour in this humanitarian crisis continues to worsen. We therefore call upon them again to cease their activities, so that we can progress a peaceful settlement in the interests of all Yemenis.

[Lord Campbell of Pittenweem (LD)]

Does the Minister properly understand that many Members of this House regard the cut in aid to Yemen as shameful, first, because of the adverse impact it will have on people suffering the worst humanitarian crisis in the world? Equally important is the impact on the morale of the dedicated aid workers, who are trying to stem the tide of misery.

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con) [V]]

My Lords, as I have already said, I respect the views expressed in your Lordships’ House on this important subject. I recognise that reductions have been made in our support through the cuts in ODA. Nevertheless, we continue to support humanitarian efforts in Yemen and the political efforts to bring about a peaceful settlement to this conflict.

[Baroness Sugg (Con)]

My Lords, one of the terrible consequences of the conflict in Yemen is the increase in child marriage. According to CARE International, more than two-thirds of girls are now married by the age of 18, as their families struggle to cope. The UK has long been a global champion and a leading donor in the efforts to end child marriage. Can the Minister tell me what we are doing to help the girls of Yemen, and give me any reassurance that the UK’s vital work to end child marriage will be protected from the cuts to international development spend?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con) [V]]

My Lords, my noble friend is right, and the United Kingdom stands firm in its opposition to the abhorrent practice of child marriage. We will continue to defend the rights of children, particularly young girls, who are vulnerable to this. That work will continue not just in Yemen but elsewhere. As I am sure my noble friend recognises, the access situation in Yemen is extremely challenging. Therefore, the political settlement must proceed, and then we can look forward to playing our part to ensure that the rights of every girl in Yemen and elsewhere are protected.

[Baroness D'Souza (CB) [V]]

My Lords, the khat crop in Yemen is widely cultivated because it yields a greater income than food. If, however, this income falls and food prices increase due to scarcity, the inevitable consequence is widespread starvation. Will the FCDO support a return to pre-cut levels of aid and consider direct injections of cash into the market to stabilise prices and avoid the already very poor and meagre food aid distribution networks?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con) [V]]

[Inaudible]—food security. In this regard, it is not just a challenge of getting humanitarian aid to the most vulnerable. I assure the noble Baroness that we are also working directly with the Central Bank of Yemen and the Government to prop up the economy and facilitate food imports, and indeed to reduce food prices. That is part of the technical support we extend and will continue to extend.

[Lord Collins of Highbury (Lab)]

My Lords, a recent UN IPC food security report found that half a million children aged between zero and four are acutely malnourished and 100,000 are severely malnourished. The IRC Yemen country director said that we cannot wait for widespread famine to be declared in the country; by then it would be too late. Let us have another go: can the Minister explain how halving aid spending in a country facing famine supports efforts to protect 20 million people from catastrophic famine?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con) [V]]

My Lords, the noble Lord knows that we have made it very clear that we have been challenged in our budgets through the Covid crisis and domestic challenges. Nevertheless, we are spending £10 billion on ODA. In Yemen specifically, this will mean that 240,000 Yemenis will be directly assisted. We are establishing 400 healthcare centres. We are also working on important and vital sanitation links and water projects. This is all part of our effort with the global community, but what is needed in Yemen most urgently is a peaceful political resolution. As I have said, we are working very much on that priority as well.

[Baroness Sheehan (LD)]

My Lords, Saudi Arabia was the world’s largest arms importer from 2015 to 2019. The Saudi-led coalition imposed a blockade on Yemen and used the arms for deadly air strikes on civilian targets, leading to the world’s worst humanitarian crisis. Is it the Government’s view that the US and Italy stopping arms sales to Saudi Arabia will help end the conflict? Will we consider joining them?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con) [V]]

My Lords, as I have said on repeated occasions from the Dispatch Box, we look at our arms exports very carefully and take our responsibilities in this respect very seriously. We assess our export licences in accordance with strict licensing criteria. We also welcome, as I am sure the noble Baroness does, the announcement from Saudi Arabia of a nationwide ceasefire. We hope that all sides of the conflict will now adhere to it.

[Lord Walney (Non-Afl)]

My Lords, the humanitarian crisis could be greatly worsened if the oil tanker FSO “Safer”, currently off the Yemeni coast, is allowed to continue to decay. We face the greatest environmental disaster of the century. Can the Minister say whether the Islamist Houthi regime is continuing to stall on allowing UN experts to inspect this ship?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con) [V]]

My Lords, sadly, the short answer is yes. The UK has already contributed £2.5 million to fund this mission, but it is for the Houthis to facilitate the mission’s access and deployment.

[Baroness Helic (Con) [V]]

My Lords, we know that the only way to avert famine in the long term is to end the conflict and create a peace in which all members of society can prosper. A lasting peace requires justice and accountability for the many crimes committed in Yemen. I welcome the establishment of the International Accountability Platform for Belarus. Does my noble friend agree that such a platform is also needed for Yemen to ensure that justice and accountability become more than just aspirations in that country?

--- Later in debate ---

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con) [V]]

[Inaudible]—justice and accountability. Like all noble Lords, I hope that, through the political settlement, we will see justice and accountability for the innocent victims of this conflict.

[Lord Singh of Wimbledon (CB) [V]]

The suffering in the civil war has been made worse by our selling arms to Saudi Arabia, allowing it to interfere in the conflict for its own ends, with indiscriminate bombing of homes, attacks on fleeing innocents and deliberate attacks on food supplies. Will the Minister agree that the usual response of us having a strict arms sales policy no longer holds water? Making money out of suffering can never be justified and we have a moral duty to provide redress.

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con) [V]]

My Lords, I agree with the noble Lord that it is important that the United Kingdom plays its part in ensuring that the humanitarian suffering is alleviated, notwithstanding our domestic challenges, which are quite impactful on our international support. We are playing our part. We are also lending support to the political settlement. As I indicated in response to an earlier question, we take a very robust approach when it comes to arms exports.

[The Lord Speaker (Lord Fowler)]

My Lords, the time allowed for this Question has elapsed.

Human Rights Update

Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon Excerpts

Tuesday 23rd March 2021 Lords Chamber

[The Minister of State, Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office (Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon) (Con) [V]]

My Lords, I thank the noble Lord, Lord Collins, and the noble Baroness, Lady Northover, for their constructive remarks and will seek to address their specific questions. I also acknowledge that we have received support from the main Opposition Benches for what the noble Baroness describes as the first step on sanctions.

Addressing some of the issues, I must admit that I was a tad disappointed by the response from the noble Lord, Lord Collins, about the speed with which these sanctions have come about. I remind noble Lords that it was only a short while ago that we brought in the structure of the global human rights sanctions regime, and this is another example of taking it forward. Well over 70 people have now been sanctioned under that regime, and I am sure that the noble Lord, Lord Collins, will acknowledge that we have acted. That we acted in conjunction with our allies yesterday again shows strong co-operation and the necessity of gathering evidence and ensuring that sanctions imposed on individuals—and an organisation is included in this case—are based on evidence and the facts presented to ensure that they are robust to any challenge that may be made against them.

The noble Baroness, Lady Northover, referred to the Trade Bill being discussed in the other place yesterday and this coincided with that. I am sure that she will reflect on how we were co-ordinating with other allies and how this falls at a time when both Houses are focused on the importance of our future relationship with countries. It is also entirely appropriate that we have introduced these sanctions regimes in co-ordination with our key partners, as the noble Baroness and the noble Lord both acknowledged.

The noble Baroness asked about the absence of other Five Eyes partners, aside from Canada, the US and us. As she would acknowledge, that is because they do not yet have a global human rights sanctions regime, but we are very much co-ordinating our actions with key partners. It is worth while recognising that, when we include all the EU partners, as well as the United States and Canada, 30 countries are acting together and in co-ordination on sanctions. There was some discrepancy or difference between the sanctions—the US had moved forward on sanctioning some named individuals earlier—but we now have a coming together and consistency between all key allies in this respect.

The noble Lord, Lord Collins, asked about the Trade Bill, which is returning to your Lordships’ House. Without stealing from any of the debate that will follow, I fully acknowledge the strong sentiments that we have seen over the last weeks and months. I pay tribute particularly to the noble Lord, Lord Alton, for bringing to the fore the importance of human rights in our work representing the United Kingdom’s interests abroad. Through both Houses working together, we have seen a move forward and acknowledgement from the Government to accept many of the points that have been raised. I believe that what is coming to your Lordships’ House reflects how the Government have listened to the strong sentiments, expressions and views that have been expressed on these important issues in both Houses.

The noble Lord, Lord Collins, asked about our relationship with China, going forward, and the comments of my right honourable friends the Prime Minister and the Foreign Secretary. I reiterate that China has an important role to play on the world stage in resolving conflicts. It is equally important that China has a role in the major issues that confront us, including climate change. On any future trading relationship, we have acknowledged previously and acknowledge again that we do not turn a blind eye to human rights abuses. I stand by my right honourable friend when he described the situation of the Uighurs in Xinjiang and their desperate plight, as I am sure all noble Lords would acknowledge. Today we see the next step in ensuring that we continue to profile this abuse and, at the same time, are seen to take actions against its perpetrators within Xinjiang.

The noble Baroness specifically asked about the trade deal with Cambodia. I will write to her on that, if I may. We put a specific human rights lens as we formulate and announce all new trade deals to ensure that it is part and parcel of our thinking and planning. The noble Lord, Lord Collins, referred to the Modern Slavery Act, on which we have already seen announcements from the Government. Indeed, in January, my right honourable friend the Foreign Secretary announced new measures on issues around the supply chain. There are also further discussions taking place with the Home Office on the penalties that will be employed against those who do not adhere to the forthcoming regulations. I am sure that your Lordships’ House will be updated in due course, as we bring forward further detail on these measures.

The noble Lord, Lord Collins, also talked about the lack of co-ordinated activity in this respect. I challenge that directly, as the Minister responsible for both the United Nations and human rights. Let us not forget that the United Kingdom first raised this in a multilateral forum, and that was just shy of two years ago. We have seen steady support for the United Kingdom working with key partners to ensure that there are now more than 39 countries, and growing, which now speak strongly and specifically on the important issues of the abuse incurred by the Uighur community in Xinjiang. It shows the strength of UK diplomacy that we have continued to raise this issue at the UN Third Committee and have raised it consistently at the Human Rights Council.

The noble Lord referred to the various resolutions that have passed. Today, we passed a new resolution on Sri Lanka, which I am sure that many noble Lords will welcome. At the same time, the issue of China, in the context of both Hong Kong and Xinjiang, was very much part and parcel of my right honourable friend’s contribution to the Human Rights Council.

I pick up the point on corruption sanctions that was rightly raised by the noble Baroness, Lady Northover. I have used this phrase before in the context of these sanctions, but we are working through this specific framework. They are very high on our agenda and we hope to come to your Lordships’ House and the other place, in the near future, on the framework to widen the scope of the sanctions regime.

I assure all noble Lords that we will continue to engage proactively on this issue, because I know it carries great strength of views, which are expressed in your Lordships’ House and which I greatly value, particularly in my capacity as Human Rights Minister. We will continue to work constructively and engage with noble Lords when these issues arise in the Chamber and, as we have done previously, by proactively updating them on developments.

[The Deputy Speaker (Lord Alderdice) (LD)]

We now come to the 20 minutes allocated for Back-Bench questions. I ask that questions and answers are brief so that I can call the maximum number of speakers.

[Lord Polak (Con)]

My Lords, as a result of coronavirus, the world, in so many ways, is upside down. Yesterday in the other place 29 Members from my party voted for the genocide amendment and were called “rebels”, including a former leader and a former Foreign Secretary. They are not rebels; they are righteous heroes. As Elie Wiesel said,

“We must take sides … Silence encourages the tormentor, never the tormented.”


In this Statement, the Foreign Secretary’s words that,

“The suffering of the Uyghur Muslims in Xinjiang cannot be ignored”


are welcome, and he was right to begin to impose sanctions. But I ask my noble friend the Minister whether the Government will continue to ask for unfettered access to Xinjiang, and whether he agrees that there is an urgent need to establish mechanisms to collect and preserve the evidence of the atrocities, which the Foreign Secretary described as

“one of the worst human rights crises of our time.”

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con) [V]]

[Inaudible]—and also his own work in this respect. As I have already mentioned, I align myself with and recognise the strong sentiments of and the incredible role played by many in your Lordships’ House, and in the other place, on all sides of the two Chambers, in ensuring that we move forward in a constructive way on the important issue of the continuing suffering of the Uighur people. I fully acknowledge and respect the important contributions and role of Members in the other place, as well as your Lordships, in this respect.

On the specific point that my noble friend, and the noble Baroness, Lady Northover, raised on ensuring that unfettered access should be guaranteed, I absolutely agree; we are calling for that for Michelle Bachelet, the United Nations High Commissioner for Human Rights. On the specific issue of accountability and justice for those committing these crimes, I am sure my noble friend has noted the statement that my right honourable friend the Foreign Secretary made jointly with the US Secretary of State and the Canadian Foreign Minister in this respect.

[Lord Alton of Liverpool (CB)]

My Lords, I welcome the Foreign Secretary’s Statement and its repetition here today by the Minister. In thanking him, and the Foreign Secretary, for the role that they have played in making a reality of these Magnitsky sanctions, I endorse everything that the noble Lords, Lord Collins and Lord Polak, and the noble Baroness, Lady Northover, have said. I have two questions for the Minister. First, higher up the food chain are people like Chen Quanguo, who has been responsible for giving the orders in Xinjiang against the Uighurs. Can the Minister, without going into individual cases, at least assure us that just because people are higher up the food chain, they will not avoid these Magnitsky sanctions in the future? Secondly, returning to the point made by the noble Baroness about pathways to determining genocide, can the Minister at least assure us that if he believed there to be convincing evidence of a genocide under way, in Xinjiang or anywhere else, he would not be in favour of continuing trade with a country complicit in genocide?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con) [V]]

My Lords, on the noble Lord’s second point, the United Kingdom has been seen to be taking action against anyone, or any country, that is found to be engaging in genocide following a judicial process, and, indeed, even where genocide has not been declared by a legal court. A good example is the suspension of trading relationships and other agreements. In answering the noble Lord’s first question, I also recognise that, yes, the United Kingdom does ensure that we produce a robust evidence base. As was seen recently with the situation in Myanmar, there have been occasions where we have taken action directly against people such as those leading the coup in that country.

[Lord Triesman (Lab) [V]]

My Lords, speaking about the Uighur Muslims, the Foreign Secretary described the evidence of human rights abuses as clear and corroborated, as we have heard, and the noble Baroness, Lady Northover, and my noble friend Lord Collins described the various ways in which that is true. In summary, Mr Raab himself described it as

“egregious, industrial-scale human rights abuses”.

I greatly respect the Minister, but I wonder whether he might not reflect that he has been a little complacent about the speed at which we have used Magnitsky sanctions, and that we have missed a number of opportunities to co-operate internationally. If the Government are resistant to using the word “genocide”, will the Minister at least confirm that he can use the expression that is used at the UN, that there are “crimes of concern to humanity” and “crimes against humanity”? If he can, will he confirm the good sense of amending the Trade Bill to make sure that those who benefit from such crimes will not do so by having trade opportunities in their hands?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con) [V]]

[Inaudible]—on a lighter note, I am always conscious that, when in an opening line “great respect” is expressed for the Minister, what will follow thereafter is a reflection of a challenge, and that has been proven correct today. Of course, I take on board what the noble Lord, Lord Triesman, has said. The Trade Bill will be up for discussion in your Lordships’ House today and I look forward to that. On the issue of complacency, I will challenge the noble Lord; I am afraid, on this occasion, I cannot agree with him. We have seen a structured approach to the new regime being introduced; we have close to 76 people, I believe, who have been sanctioned as part of this, and it is right and important that we acted once we had the evidence. But it is also right, as the noble Baroness, Lady Northover, acknowledged, that we act in conjunction with our key partners, because acting together shows the strength of the international community in the face of the continued human rights abuses we are seeing in Xinjiang.

[Lord Purvis of Tweed (LD)]

My Lords, the joint UK-China communiqué on the occasion of President Xi addressing both Houses of Parliament in 2015 highlighted seven co-operation agreements, strategic partnership agreements and joint alliances covering preferential trading terms and UK market access—not available to many other countries. Given the horrors we now know of, how many of these preferential trading agreements have been suspended?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con) [V]]

[Inaudible]—in respect of what the noble Lord asks, I will write to him. I also acknowledge that, while these agreements were signed in 2015, the international community was alerted to the situation that we see emerging in Xinjiang only in 2016. But on the specifics, I will write to the noble Lord.

[Baroness Warsi (Con) [V]]

My Lords, noble Lords across the House acknowledged the Government’s work on this issue, particularly the work of my noble friend the Minister. We were of course one of the first countries to raise the Uighur issue at the UN two years ago, and my noble friend has led and built a strong coalition. I ask him what the next steps are for Her Majesty’s Government—what ties need to be built, and how? Why, in light of my noble friend’s sincere commitment to this issue, which is in no doubt, are the Government unable to hear the strength and breadth of the coalition standing behind the amendments in the name of the noble Lord, Lord Alton, in this place, and my honourable friend the Member for Wealden in the other place? What is stopping the Government supporting and adopting these amendments?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con) [V]]

On my noble friend’s second point, I have already acknowledged the important work that has been done in both Houses in this respect. The Government’s amendment reflects those sentiments quite specifically, and I am sure that there will be further debates in your Lordships’ House on that. In thanking my noble friend for her remarks, in terms of the next steps on building alliances, there is a major area that we need to work on, and that is the lack of condemnation of what we have seen in Xinjiang among the Muslim countries of the world—the Islamic countries. Therein lies a challenge for all of us within the existing alliance, to ensure that we strengthen our partnerships with the OIC, and other specifically bilateral ties, to ensure that we see Muslim countries speaking out against the suffering of over 1 million Muslims in China.

[Lord Mackenzie of Framwellgate (Non-Afl) [V]]

My Lords, I welcome the repeat of the Statement and the Government’s positive move to apply Magnitsky sanctions to principal actors, but I note that there was no reference to genocide, even though there is credible evidence of systematic repression, imprisonment, gang rape, torture, forced sterilisation and the suppression of the Uighur language and culture. Does the Minister agree that putting all this horrific treatment together surely amounts to genocide by any definition, whether it be a moral, political or legal question? Could he tell the House why the Government fail to call it out as such by name?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con) [V]]

On the specific definition of genocide, my response and those of other Ministers are well documented. But I recognise the description that the noble Lord gave us all of the situation in Xinjiang, and I stand by the fact that the human rights abuses that we have seen, and which he described, are why we are acting with partners today.

[Lord Harries of Pentregarth (CB) [V]]

I welcome the strong Statement and the actions that are to follow from it, but will the Government act with consistency and similar firmness in relation to other countries where human rights are grossly violated? I could mention a number, but I shall mention one that gets almost no publicity: the continuing atrocities and ethnic cleansing in West Papua. For example, the retired General Hendropriyono, the former head of Indonesian intelligence—the BIN—has called for 2 million West Papuans to be forcibly removed from their homes and relocated elsewhere in Indonesia. I know that the Government repeatedly condemn such actions, but will they go further, be consistent and impose sanctions on him and others involved in what is, in effect, an attempt to destroy a whole people and its culture?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con) [V]]

Again, as the noble and right reverend Lord acknowledged, the Government have rightly consistently called out human rights abuses, not just in the situation he described but elsewhere in the world. On sanctions specifically, as I have indicated, a process is followed to ensure that the sanctions we impose are evidence-based and robust. We will continue to act. We do not shy away. Many rightly challenged us for a number of months that we were not acting on sanctioning figures from China. We have done so, and China is a major world power. We have not shied away from our moral responsibility in this respect. The fact that we have acted with 30 other countries demonstrates the will of the international community.

[Baroness Kennedy of The Shaws (Lab)]

My Lords, I too welcome this important collaboration with many partners and the creation of these targeted sanctions. I will speak specifically about our embrace of targeted sanctions. Is the Foreign Office engaging with countries that so far do not have targeted sanctions as part of their regimes for dealing with human rights abusers and things such as genocide? The noble Baroness, Lady Northover, asked about the absence of some of our Five Eyes partners from the coalition of targeted sanctions announced in this last day. The reality is that Australia, for example, does not have a targeted sanctions regime. Are we persuading other democracies to take on board this great new development in international law? It gives teeth to international law in a situation where one cannot get people before international courts.

I will also pick up on the question asked by the noble Lord, Lord Alton. Targeted sanctions must be used in a very strategic way. To go after lesser persons is not using the regime in the way that it was supposed to be used. For example, the United States of America has on its list the governor of Xinjiang province, Mr Chen Quanguo. Why do we not have him on our sanctions list? He has been sanctioned by the United States; why not by us?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con) [V]]

I pay tribute to the work that the noble Baroness has done in the context of media freedom and the coalition. The independent legal panel has produced some excellent reports in that respect, including on the use of sanctions. The short answer is that we are speaking to other key partners, specifically some of those she mentioned, to see how we can share our experiences so that they can bring about their own sanctions regimes.

On the specifics of future people who may be sanctioned, it would be mere speculation, but I assure the noble Baroness that we remain very firm on working and sharing evidence with our partners in this respect. We have worked very closely with the United States in particular on these issues and we will continue to do so.

[Lord Roberts of Llandudno (LD) [V]]

Are we giving the world the moral leadership that it is crying for, or are we just repeating what Pastor Niemöller said of the Nazi regime: “First of all they came for the Jews. I wasn’t a Jew so I didn’t speak out. Then they came for the communists. I wasn’t a communist so I didn’t speak out. Then they came for the trade unionists, but I wasn’t a trade unionist so I didn’t speak out. Then they came for me, and there was nobody left to speak for me”?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con) [V]]

We are giving clear leadership and working with allies. While we are touching on a sobering subject—the situation of the Uighurs in China—we should recognise that we have not shied away. On my personal commitment, I assure the noble Lord that I meet many members of persecuted communities around the world. Yes, we may not always act with the speed that noble Lords desire, but I am proud of the fact that the United Kingdom continues to play a leading role in standing up for those who do not have a voice and acts when it needs to, as we did yesterday with international partners in sending a very strong message to a country such as China that we will call out human rights abuses.

[Lord Balfe (Con)]

My Lords, Australia and New Zealand —Australia in particular—were threatened by China earlier this year over coronavirus. What steps are we taking to get the other two of the Five Eyes firmly on board? Secondly, what steps are we taking in the Council of Europe’s ministerial council, where there are a lot of belt and road countries that are now in deep financial trouble? Thirdly, what are we doing in the Commonwealth to try to get to some Commonwealth solidarity?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con) [V]]

I believe that I have already answered my noble friend’s first question in response to the noble Baroness, Lady Kennedy. He is right to raise how we can further strengthen the profile of human rights abuses and get a wider, more diverse selection of countries to support the actions we have taken. The Council of Europe and the Commonwealth provide opportunities for this. I assure my noble friend that we will focus on specific issues of human rights as part of our discussion at the next CHOGM in the upcoming summit in Kigali.

[The Earl of Sandwich (CB) [V]]

My Lords, I welcome the Statement and the sanctions, but in relation to our new trade agreement with Turkey, are HMG also concerned about the increasing clamp-down on human rights there and its withdrawal from the Istanbul convention? Does he agree with the UN Commissioner for Human Rights, who said:

“Any anti-terror operation should comply with international human rights law, and should not be used to target dissent”?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con) [V]]

Turkey remains an important partner for the United Kingdom, but I assure the noble Earl that I engage directly on the issue of human rights with the Turkish Government. They have recently produced a new report on the actions they will take this year. We would rather they stayed on board with the Istanbul convention. I agree that any actions we take to ensure that our countries are secure from the scourge of terrorism need to ensure that human rights are always protected.

[Baroness Blackstone (Ind Lab)]

My Lords, like others I welcome the decision to enforce sanctions, but I will press the Minister again on the question asked by the noble Lord, Lord Alton, and my noble friend Lady Kennedy of The Shaws. Can he explain explicitly why the Communist Party boss in Xinjiang is not on the list of those being sanctioned, given that he is considered by many to be the main enforcer of hard-line policies there? If the Minister cannot be explicit now, could he possibly write to me to explain the very odd decision not to include him?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con) [V]]

I have noted what all noble Lords have said in respect of sanctions of other individuals. I am sure that noble Lords respect the fact that I cannot be specific on particular names, but, as the noble Baroness requested, I will be happy to explain the process we go through before we sanction any individual or entity under the regime.

[The Deputy Speaker (Lord Alderdice) (LD)]

I am afraid that the 20 minutes for Back-Bench questions has now finished. I regret that it has not been possible to call all the Members on the list.

Hong Kong Courts: British Judges

Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon Excerpts

Monday 22nd March 2021 Lords Chamber

[Lord Truscott]

To ask Her Majesty’s Government what assessment they have made of role of British judges in courts in Hong Kong; and what plans they have to prevent judges from participating in those courts.

[The Minister of State, Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office (Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon) (Con) [V]]

My Lords, British judges have played an important role in supporting the independence of Hong Kong’s judiciary for many years. We want and hope for this to continue. However, the national security law poses real questions for the rule of law in Hong Kong and the protection of fundamental rights and freedoms promised by China in the joint declaration. The UK judiciary is of course independent of government and it is for it to make an assessment of the issue. It is right that the Supreme Court continues to assess the situation in Hong Kong in discussion with Her Majesty’s Government.

[Lord Truscott (Non-Afl)]

My Lords, I thank the Minister for his reply, but is it not time that Her Majesty’s Government make their position clear on this and take further action? Is it not wrong on many levels that British judges are active in Hong Kong, giving a veneer of respectability to wholly draconian laws which effectively stifle freedom of speech, freedom of assembly and free and fair elections?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con) [V]]

My Lords, let me assure the noble Lord that, as I said in my original Answer, we are working closely with the Supreme Court. The noble and learned Lord, Lord Reed, has already made it clear that he is co-ordinating his response in consultation with the Government. The important assessment to be made is in relation to the issue of judicial independence, as guaranteed by Hong Kong Basic Law, and the rule of law. This is under active consideration by the Supreme Court in consultation with the Government.

[Lord Sharpe of Epsom (Con)]

My Lords, I declare my interest as a vice-chairman of the All-Party Parliamentary Group on Hong Kong. I am sure that many will have read this morning’s disturbing story in the Daily Telegraph that BNO passport holders who apply for UK visas may be at risk of having their pensions withheld. That perhaps illustrates the current regime’s contempt for established law. What steps have the UK Government taken in response to this and any other recent developments in Hong Kong?

--- Later in debate ---

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con) [V]]

My noble friend is right to draw attention to this worrying development whereby the Mandatory Provident Fund Schemes Authority will no longer accept BNO passports. It is yet further evidence of the challenges which continue to be experienced in Hong Kong. The Government have acted by providing new immigration routes to BNO holders to the UK. We have suspended the extradition treaty with Hong Kong and put in place an arms embargo. We continue to call out, as we did on 13 March through my right honourable friend the Foreign Secretary, breaches of the joint declaration.

[Lord Pannick (CB)]

My Lords, I last appeared in the Court of Final Appeal in Hong Kong two weeks ago. It was a remote appearance. It was 2 am, but the court seemed to me to be as independent as it has been since 1997. Will the Minister recognise that the judges in Hong Kong are doing everything in their capacity to maintain their independence and that they and the independent Bar in Hong Kong are very keen that the judges of this jurisdiction continue to support them and do not abandon them?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con) [V]]

My Lords, the noble Lord speaks with great insight on this matter, and I agree with him. That is why it is right that the Supreme Court makes a decision, but it is also right that it does so while consulting Her Majesty’s Government. We pride ourselves on the strength of the independence of the judiciary. I hope that the authorities in Hong Kong do the same.

[Lord Anderson of Swansea (Lab)]

My Lords, in the face of China’s serial breaches of the 1984 Sino-British joint declaration, we have honoured our obligations and not done China’s work for it. Is there not now a case for us to remain on that high ground and respect the wish of the Hong Kong legal community for distinguished judges to continue their work in the Court of Final Appeal, upholding the rule of law, until such time as the Chinese make their task impossible?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con) [V]]

My Lords, briefly put, I totally agree with the noble Lord. As I said in response to the noble Lord, Lord Pannick, our judges play an important role in Hong Kong and it is important that the final decision on them continuing in that role lies with the Supreme Court.

[Baroness Northover (LD)]

My Lords, the judges have been termed the canaries in the coalmine. The noble Lord indicated that he fears it will not be long before their position may become untenable. What conversations on this matter have been held with the other common law countries, including Australia and Canada, from where the other judges come?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con) [V]]

My Lords, the noble Baroness is right to draw attention to the importance of the diversity of the judiciary in Hong Kong. I assure her that we co-ordinate with international partners, not just on this but on a number of matters relating to Hong Kong. As I have said, on the specific issue of UK judges, we are of course working very closely with the Supreme Court, in particular with the noble and learned Lord, Lord Reed, its president.

[Lord Collins of Highbury (Lab)]

My Lords, I suppose the issue is whether the presence of British judges legitimises a political and legal system which is compromised as a consequence of the Chinese Government’s changes to Hong Kong law. On 12 March, the spokesperson for the noble and learned Lord, Lord Reed, said that the Supreme Court had been

“in close contact with the British foreign secretary and lord chancellor on matters for some time, and is reviewing with them the operation of the agreement”.

What has changed since 12 March? Are we likely to hear from the Lord Chancellor and the Government about a change in the role of British judges in Hong Kong?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con) [V]]

My Lords, I will not prejudge any announcement. It is important that we co-ordinate very closely with the Supreme Court. As the noble Lord will be aware, the role of the judges in Hong Kong is very much enshrined in basic Hong Kong law, under Articles 19 and 85, which guarantee their independence and freedom from interference. Those are important criteria and I am sure that, as I have already said, the Supreme Court is considering its position on this.

[Lord Garnier (Con)]

My Lords, does my noble friend agree that the rule of law and the permanent and non-permanent judges in Hong Kong deserve all the support we can give them, and that the British and Commonwealth judges should stay, unless the independence of the judiciary is compromised by, for example, its being asked to enforce laws that were no longer in accordance with the rule of law, or it is undermined altogether? As my noble friend is well aware, I have been critical of the PRC’s activities in breach of the rule of law and human rights, but will he accept that the removal of the non-resident judiciary would only please Beijing and damage the rule of law?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con) [V]]

I agree with my noble and learned friend, and other noble Lords who have spoken on this Question, that our judges, as well as those from other countries, play an important role in upholding the independence of the judiciary, which should continue to be free from any interference. As I have said, their role is enshrined in basic Hong Kong law and it is important that the Supreme Court makes the ultimate decision on the continuation of that role.

[Lord Woolf (CB) [V]]

My Lords, I refer to my entries in the register and my former position as a non-permanent judge of Hong Kong’s Court of Final Appeal, and my engagements to establish, and then become, respectively, president and Chief Justice of the commercial courts in Qatar and Kazakhstan, both of which are modelled on our commercial court and have former senior British judges on the Bench. I also refer to the article by Lord Sumption in the Times and the article in the South China Morning Post. In view of the answers that he has already given, do the Minister and the Foreign Office appreciate that the reputation of justice and judges in this country is enhanced by judges performing the roles to which I referred? If our Government are seen to be interfering with the appointment of British judges who do this work, especially where, in Lord Sumption’s apt words,

“In reality they are demands that judges should participate in a political boycott designed to put pressure on the Chinese Government to change its position on democracy”,


then this will not continue.

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con) [V]]

My Lords, I agree with the noble and learned Lord and recognise the important insight and experience that he brings to this debate. Equally, as I have already indicated in my previous answers, the Government are very clear that the independence of judges operating within Hong Kong must be free of political interference. However, it is right that we continue to work with the Supreme Court on its determination of that position. We call upon the Hong Kong authorities to respect the principle of these two aspects, which is enshrined within basic Hong Kong law.

[The Senior Deputy Speaker (Lord McFall of Alcluith)]

My Lords, the time allowed for this Question has elapsed.

Hong Kong: Electoral Reforms

Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon Excerpts

Thursday 11th March 2021 Lords Chamber

[Lord Collins of Highbury (Lab)]

My Lords, this morning Dominic Raab said that the action of the Chinese National People’s Congress would further undermine trust in China. Earlier this week, I asked the Minister about Five Eyes co-operation. Since their November statement, the Chinese Government have rewritten Hong Kong’s electoral law and arrested politicians under the national security law, and the police have continued to respond brutally to peaceful protests. The UK needs to lead a co-ordinated strategic response with our allies, so will the Government now call a new meeting of Five Eyes leaders to match words with action?

[The Minister of State, Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office (Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon) (Con)]

My Lords, I, of course, take note of the suggestion of the noble Lord. Let me assure him and all noble Lords that the United Kingdom is working in a very co-ordinated fashion with our Five Eyes partners. I am sure that the noble Lord will note the statements we have previously made on these issues together with key Five Eyes partners, including the United States, Canada and Australia, the most recent being a joint statement in January of this year. Of course, following the announcement this morning, we will be looking to further strengthen our response to the continued dilution of, challenges to and suppression of democracy in Hong Kong.

[Baroness Northover (LD)]

My Lords, did the Minister hear the Chinese chargé d’affaires on the “Today” programme this morning describing the nem. con. vote in China’s National People’s Congress as

“improving the democratic system in Hong Kong”?

Are we now in too weak a position to be able to sanction those who have undermined the international agreement in Hong Kong committing it to “one country, two systems”, which includes a proper democratic system in Hong Kong? If we are not, why are we not doing this?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, on the noble Baroness’s point about sanctions, of course, that is one of several tools at our disposal in taking action against those who continue to suppress democracy and the rights of democracy. I did indeed hear the “Today” programme and the description of the congress’s decision. The best thing that I can say from the Dispatch Box about that decision is that it is anything but democracy: it is the continuing saga of further suppression of the democratic rights of the people of Hong Kong and of their right to choose their own representatives. We will continue to use all channels to ensure that China looks again very carefully at the situation in Hong Kong. On the issue of sanctions, as well as other tools at our disposal, I assure the noble Baroness that we are giving full consideration to everything available to us.

[Lord Alton of Liverpool (CB) [V]]

My Lords, I declare my interests as vice-chair of the All-Party Parliamentary Group on Hong Kong and as a patron of Hong Kong Watch. Given that BNO is not an accountability measure, what single action have we taken to hold the Chinese Communist Party to account for breaching the internationally binding Sino-British joint declaration? What cross-government assessment is being made of the CCP’s involvement in our critical national infrastructure? One example is the China General Nuclear Power Group, which is blacklisted in the US for stealing nuclear secrets, but which owns one-third of Hinkley Point in the United Kingdom?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

On the noble Lord’s second point, I can assure him that we take a very robust attitude to the operation of Chinese firms and companies within the United Kingdom. Of course, when there was a big challenge concerning the issue of 5G, we reflected on the provisions for that. I can point the noble Lord to several specific actions that we have taken, including those at the UN, dating back to May 2020. Most recently, on 22 February, the Foreign Secretary directly addressed the UN Human Rights Council, calling out the systematic violation of the rights and people of Hong Kong.

[Lord Davies of Gower (Con) [V]]

My Lords, the Minister will no doubt be aware that on Monday, foreign diplomats in Hong Kong were summoned to meet the head of the Chinese Foreign Ministry’s office in the territory who, it is reported, warned them not to retaliate against changes to Hong Kong’s election system. That is evidence, I suggest, that there is no hope of persuading Chinese and Hong Kong authorities through diplomatic means to step back from further actions to restrict the rights and freedoms of Hongkongers, or to uphold Beijing’s commitment to the legally binding Sino-British joint declaration. Is it not time for the UK, together with key partners, to flex their muscles more persuasively, possibly through the financial sector, to make Beijing sit up, take notice and abide by its democratic commitment to Hong Kong?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, I note my noble friend’s suggestions, but I assure him that officials have raised these concerns directly. Her Majesty’s Ambassador to Beijing raised them with the Chinese Ministry of Foreign Affairs on 4 March; our acting consul-general in Hong Kong raised them with the Chinese Ministry of Foreign Affairs on 2 March; and London-based officials raised them with the Chinese Embassy here on 5 March. Let me assure my noble friend that we are also in close contact with like-minded partners regarding further action that can be taken.

[Baroness Blackstone (Ind Lab)]

My Lords, I would like to pick up on the Minister’s last remarks. Given our close historical connections with Hong Kong, the international community will be looking to the UK to take the lead in defending democracy there. Can he therefore tell the House in more detail than in the Written Answer what discussions the Government have had with the US, the EU and other democracies in the Asia-Pacific region, and what response they have had with respect to the actions to be taken?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, as I have already indicated, we are in constant contact with our partners, whether it is the Five Eyes partners that the noble Lord, Lord Collins, referred to, our colleagues within the European Union, or other allies for calling out the continuing suppression of democracy in Hong Kong. We are in very close contact with all of them. This includes action that we have taken at the UN and, specifically, working with close allies on the Human Rights Council, such as Germany and others. That will continue to be the case. However, the issue is for China to take a long, hard look at itself. It is not standing by international agreements that it has signed. It needs to reflect very carefully, because we are seeing the continuing suppression of democracy in Hong Kong, but we are working with partners to ensure that we call it out as regularly as we can.

[Lord Mackenzie of Framwellgate (Non-Afl) [V]]

My Lords, as the noble Lord stated, democracy is being stifled in Hong Kong. As a guarantor of the joint declaration, the UK has a legal and moral duty to stand up for the people there. China should be continuously called out for this egregious breach of international law. Does the Minister agree with me that the true patriots in Hong Kong are those who support the joint declaration, and that, surely, Magnitsky sanctions are now inevitable?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, I agree with the noble Lord when he rightly describes those who stand up as true patriots who stand up for freedom, democracy and the will of the people. I have already addressed the issue of sanctions; as I said, it is one of the tools available to us, and we are leaving all the tools very much on the table.

[Lord Garnier (Con) [V]]

My Lords, the Government’s response to the Urgent Question says:

“There is still time for the Chinese and Hong Kong authorities to step back from further action to restrict the rights and freedoms of Hongkongers, and to respect Hong Kong’s high degree of autonomy.”—[Official Report, Commons, 10/3/21; col. 881.]


I know that my noble friend the Minister heard Nick Robinson’s interview this morning on the “Today” programme with the Minister from the Chinese embassy. Would he agree that Mr Robinson was a model of restraint as he listened to the risibly incredible answers to his questions? Does my noble friend agree that the Government of China could not care less about what the rest of the world thinks, and that they will pay attention only when we actually do something, as opposed to wringing our hands and saying, “It’s all dreadful but we’d quite like their trade”?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

In terms of what we say publicly in strengthening diplomacy, restraint is very much a description of British diplomacy at its best. But I assure my noble and learned friend that the restraint is not demonstrated in any way through the options that we consider—as we have done in calling out the issue in Hong Kong—and we are not wringing our hands. We regard China as an important international player, and it is important that it seeks to remain, and retain its place, within the international community. Everyone is looking at China and at what is happening not just in Hong Kong but in China itself, particularly in Xinjiang. It is important that we continue to call that out in international fora and, as I have said, together with international partners.

[Lord Berkeley of Knighton (CB) [V]]

Could I press the Minister on one point that the noble Baroness, Lady Blackstone, made? Are we actually holding hands with the Biden Administration to put pressure on China? That would clearly strengthen our hand considerably. Secondly, given how we cannot really trust what assurances were given by the Chinese, how are we going to approach future negotiations?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, on the noble Lord’s second point, of course what is happening in Hong Kong and the continued suppression of the human rights of people within China are important considerations in any future discussions we have with the Chinese authorities. On his first issue about our links and discussions with the Biden Administration, I assure the noble Lord that my right honourable friends the Prime Minister and the Foreign Secretary are engaging with the United States, as well as all members of the team. Indeed, as I have said before, I look forward to talking quite directly with the Assistant Secretary responsible for human rights after the appropriate confirmation hearings, and I assure the noble Lord that this will be one of the key priority issues on our agenda.

[The Deputy Speaker (The Earl of Kinnoull) (Non-Afl)]

My Lords, the time allowed for this Question has now elapsed.