General Data Protection Regulation

Lord Ashton of Hyde Excerpts

Tuesday 5th June 2018 Lords Chamber

[Lord Brabazon of Tara]

To ask Her Majesty’s Government for what purpose small clubs and charities have to comply with the General Data Protection Regulation, which came into force on 25 May.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department for Digital, Culture, Media and Sport (Lord Ashton of Hyde) (Con)]

My Lords, clubs and charities which handle personal data will need to comply with the general data protection regulation in the Data Protection Act 2018 because people have the right to expect organisations of all sizes to keep their data safe and secure and not to misuse it. Small clubs and charities may also process sensitive personal data, such as medical records or children’s data. It is especially important that this is kept safe and secure and used appropriately. To assist smaller organisations, which may have more limited access to legal resources, the Information Commissioner’s Office has published a range of user-friendly material on the GDPR on its website and set up a dedicated phone line for small businesses and charities.

[Lord Brabazon of Tara (Con)]

I am grateful to my noble friend for that reply. He has confirmed that any club, however small, that keeps a record of its membership must register, and not just register but renew and pay up every year. I will not ask my noble friend to give an estimate of the numbers involved, because it must be many thousands and I do not know who on earth is going to keep track of it all. I doubt whether anybody knows the numbers. But can my noble friend tell me what these organisations are doing wrong at the moment? What ill is being done that is going to be cured by making them involve themselves in this process?

[Lord Ashton of Hyde]

My Lords, I am glad that my noble friend realises that it is very important to pay the fee that is required, as agreed by this House last month, in order to fund the ICO. All this is clearly explained on the ICO website under the heading, “The Data Protection Fee: A Guide for Controllers”. As for ills, it is not that any organisation, or even individual, has committed any sin, or that there is an ill to be cured; this is about individual data subjects’ rights. As far as an individual data subject is concerned, if his or her sensitive personal data is misused—for example, by not being kept securely—the damage done to that person or organisation is the same whether it is by a large or a small organisation. That is why the GDPR requires all data controllers, unless they are using it just for personal or household matters, to be clearer with people how their data is going to be used, to process it where it is lawful to do so, and, very importantly, to make sure it is held securely.

[Lord Watts (Lab)]

My Lords, would it be a good idea for the Government to allow small clubs to opt out of that if their membership wished to?

[Lord Ashton of Hyde]

No, I do not agree with that, for the reason I have just given.

[Lord Tebbit (Con)]

Will my noble friend explain to all of us data controllers here assembled exactly what this mischief is? I think the principal mischief is that this is a piece of legislation invented in Brussels and cursed on us.

[Lord Ashton of Hyde]

Of course, the noble Lord is entitled to his opinion but I do not agree with him. In this case, as I tried to explain, it does not matter whether it is a large or small organisation, or even an individual data controller, that misuses information. Individuals’ personal data is very important and has grown enormously since the previous Data Protection Act 20 years ago. My noble friend will of course realise that there was a Data Protection Act 20 years ago.

[Lord Addington (LD)]

My Lords, does the Minister agree that small clubs perform a useful function for society generally, as do small charities? If a problem becomes apparent, will the Minister give an assurance that the Government will review it and see if there is anything there? I agree with him that data should be guarded but we do not want to damage these clubs unduly.

[Lord Ashton of Hyde]

I am sure the noble Lord is aware that the situation for data controllers has not changed since the Data Protection Act 1998. This is not a question of problems but of protecting the data rights of everyone in this Chamber. Therefore, it applies to all organisations and to individual people, but only if they deal in personal data and are controllers of that information.

[Lord Hughes of Woodside (Lab)]

Does the Minister accept that one of the benefits of this legislation is that now people have to write and ask you whether or not you want to receive junk mail? That is fine. But with many of them, not only do you click “unsubscribe” but they ask you why you have unsubscribed. Will the Minister make sure that these issues are vigorously pursued and there is no slacking off? Frankly, my current emails have reduced by half and could be reduced by a great deal more.

[Lord Ashton of Hyde]

I believe that when that happens, that is the end of it. If they ask, they obviously want to know why the noble Lord no longer wants to be in touch with them—I do not blame them for that. Of course, I accept that those emails have a benefit. One of the principal features of the GDPR and the Data Protection Act 2018 is that there is a much stronger measure of consent. People have to give active consent to have their personal data processed.

[Lord Evans of Weardale (CB)]

My Lords, are there proposals to review the impact of this measure on small organisations? Irrespective of the fact that there is continuity from the previous Data Protection Act, there is concern that small organisations, such as charities et cetera, will be disproportionately affected. It is important that we should know whether that is the case. I declare an interest as the chairman of the charity Kent Search and Rescue.

[Lord Ashton of Hyde]

Of course, we have to comply with the GDPR while we are members of the EU. We want to continue to have a data protection regime that is in accord with the EU’s when we leave. I believe that all new legislation is reviewed after a period of time, so we will obviously keep an eye on whether there is a disproportionate effect on small organisations. Charities are obviously important but, for the reasons I set out before, individual data subjects’ rights are important so there has to be a balance.

[Lord Stevenson of Balmacara (Lab)]

My Lords, the recent document submitted by the Government to the EU as part of their negotiating structure talks about data protection and its importance for our economy. These are indeed important issues. It says, however, that the way forward is not just by an adequacy agreement, which is what I thought we were all expecting, but by a treaty. Can the Minister shed some light on that issue?

[Lord Ashton of Hyde]

As in, I believe, many negotiations with the EU, what we want is frictionless trade. In terms of data it is very important that there is no gap between leaving the EU, when we become a third country, and still being able to exchange personal data between the EU 27 countries and this country. We would like to get an agreement so that we have not only adequacy, which can be achieved only after we leave the EU, but an arrangement that allows us to continue exchanging data with members of the EU. That would have to be done by a treaty.

Electronic Communications (Universal Service) (Broadband) Order 2018

Lord Ashton of Hyde Excerpts

Tuesday 5th June 2018 Lords Chamber

[Lord Mendelsohn (Lab)]

My Lords, I thank my noble friend Lord Stevenson for moving this Regret Motion and giving us an opportunity to debate the order. I also thank him for an outstanding speech setting the right context for this, and I thank the noble Lord, Lord Foster, for an excellent speech that placed in context the consequences for small businesses. I share the frustrations of previous speakers—the noble Lord, Lord Aberdare, and the noble Earls, Lord Cathcart and Lord Lytton—about these speeds. I share it although I do not suffer from any of the difficult consequences, as they do.

I live in north London. We have three suppliers into the house. We have all sorts of cabling across the house, with boosters and all sorts of signals, but I have never achieved the stated packages from any of the services. We have problems of latency, contention and all those matters. In fact, my business has a dedicated phone line, which has boosters and other cabling to try to make sure that the signal is not lost, and we are fairly close to BT Tower itself—but our service is barely better than the much cheaper super broadband. It is frequently a problem that the claimed capacities are never fully achieved. That is something that we have to be very wary of, even when we establish a universal service obligation.

I turn my attention to the universal service obligation in this particular order. I want to make the simple point that the order does not achieve its objectives, and I would like the Minister to address that problem. When the Act was passed and the level at which the USO would be introduced was set, it was based on a series of assumptions none of which I believe to be true. I do not believe any more that it achieves the purposes of equity by trying to sort out the digital divide and deal with the problems of rural communities, and nor do I believe that it achieves any of the stated benefits of economic growth.

Some rather good documents on economic growth were produced by DCMS, and I thank it for the work that it did on that. In parenthesis, I acknowledge that the digital team at DCMS has steadily improved, and I suspect that if the same team had been around during the passage of the Bill last time we would not have been stuck with this level of USO. The economic growth benefits are said to be £257 million a year, which relates to:

“Local enterprise growth … Enterprise productivity growth … Increased teleworker productivity … Increased participation of carers and the disabled”.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department for Digital, Culture, Media and Sport (Lord Ashton of Hyde) (Con)]

I apologise for interrupting. Were the figures that the noble Lord quoted from the USO? Is that what he was referring to?

[Lord Mendelsohn]

I will specify that the figures themselves are on page 3 of the impact assessment and are for the USO. The stated growth figures themselves came from figures previously reported by Ofcom and from other reports. I can cite the reports for the Minister, but they are all in the documents that I mentioned. The assumptions on which they were made were an extrapolation from higher numbers, so even now to suggest that these numbers are consistent with the service is suspect, largely because the key factor in what is happening in the market and in the use of these things is the software and other services that are laid on top of them, which are the applications that people use. There is an idea that this level of service can be delivered on figures a year later when software has increased in order to deal with a market of higher usage, but that does not mean we can achieve these growth figures.

The other options that were rejected, 20 and 30 megabits, still fulfil both objectives, whereas this order fails on both objectives. That has had counterproductive effects. It is certainly true for those of us who spend a lot of time in industry that by setting the USO at 10 megabits we have ended up in a situation where there has been a chill on potential investment from other players. Other people have not been able to enter the market, and even the main providers that are looking to bid have found it hard to justify business cases when the USO is at 10 megabits. That is a huge problem. I agree with all the speakers who have raised the issue that there will be a dramatic impact on our relative position with this low, unambitious target.

The Government’s argument is that the reason why the level has been set is that it is all Europe’s fault, or it is in the directive. I beg to differ. The directive is all about how you interpret it and we have chosen to interpret it in a more restrictive way than others have done, as well as offering interpretations of some of the aspects in the most limited possible fashion. The most significant one is about what the minimum specification is. The documents that were provided state that the connection should be available to,

“permit functional Internet access, taking into account prevailing technologies used by the majority of subscribers and technological feasibility”.

That interpretation has been highly restrictive in how we have looked at the issue. We assume that the sorts of things that people are using in these different areas are based on easy-to-apply averages, but that is not the case. When you start talking about 10 megabits as being the sort of level that people can use, you come to the wrong conclusion. If you are in the rural community and using many of the technological features that are now used to enhance your business, you will tend to use them on a mobile. When you look for a broadband wi-fi connection, you will find that it does not meet the requirements that you can gain if you can get access to 4G.

--- Later in debate ---

I do not think that this order meets the objectives. I do not think that it is in date—it is out of date. I should be very grateful if the Minister would seriously consider when would be the appropriate time to set a proper review date and have data that do not come from 2015 or 2016 on customer usage and other things to try to calculate this, when we have something properly up to date and properly future-proofed to establish what should be the proper USO.

[Lord Ashton of Hyde]

My Lords, I am grateful to all noble Lords for their contributions. We are faced with a dilemma here. On the one hand, people such as my noble friend Lord Cathcart are begging for anything to be done to allow them to have some decent connection. By decent, I mean something that would enable him to receive his emails and documents. On the other hand, many noble Lords have said that we have lacked ambition. The last, very compelling speech from the noble Lord, Lord Mendelsohn, castigated the Government for their lack of ambition and for setting incoherent USOs, to sum up his speech very briefly.

I have to remind noble Lords that the purpose of the universal service obligation, as outlined in the universal service directive, is to ensure the provision of services to all users. Noble Lords have mentioned Europe, which at the moment has coverage of about 76%. The universal service directive applies only to fixed broadband; it does not apply to mobile. Indeed, the European Commission itself has twice reviewed mobile and concluded that social exclusion does not exist.

The universal service obligation does not exist to promote investment; it exists to make sure universal services are indeed universal and a legal right. It is intended as a safety net. The noble Lord, Lord Foster, said that that safety net lacks ambition; we will deal with the Government’s ambition elsewhere in my speech. Interestingly, the noble Lord also admitted that he would benefit from the USO and cannot wait to have it.

Premises in the USO footprint will be the hardest and most costly to reach in the country. The Government’s position is that the current specification of the USO is sufficient at present and strikes the right balance between meeting consumers’ needs and ensuring that it is proportionate and deliverable. That was not a random decision. The Government carefully considered and consulted on a range of options and three different scenarios that Ofcom modelled: a basic 10 Mbps service; the preferred 10 Mbps service with additional specifications, such as upload speeds, latency and data caps; and the 30 Mbps or superfast service. The 10 Mbps was selected because data usage drops considerably below this, indicating broadband activity is more restricted with speeds under 10 Mbps. Further evidence from Ofcom shows that a speed of 10 Mbps meets the needs of typical households.

I would also point out that 10 Mbps is a higher speed than virtually every USO across Europe. Sweden may be higher. However, we fully recognise the USO will need to be revised over time as consumer needs evolve, so that it continues to meet people’s needs in the years to come. The Government will be closely monitoring this.

Ten Mbps will make a considerable difference. The noble Lord, Lord Foster, gave a list of things that he is currently unable to do, including combating loneliness—and my noble friend, Lord Cathcart mentioned downloading documents. Setting it at 10 Mbps will allow all those things that he mentioned to take place.

As has been mentioned, that is why the Digital Economy Act 2017 provides for the Government to direct Ofcom to undertake a review at any time, and it includes a specific requirement for a review to be undertaken when 75% of premises subscribe to broadband services of 30 Mbps or higher. By the way, despite what the noble Lord, Lord Foster, said, there is virtually no difference between the two definitions of “superfast” that Ofcom, Europe and the Government have been using. At the moment, it is 95% for the Government and 94.9% for 30 Mbps, so it really is not a significant difference.

As I said earlier, the 10 Mbps USO is a safety net, but the Government have much greater ambitions for connectivity across all parts of the UK, so on that I agree with most noble Lords. In his Motion, the noble Lord, Lord Stevenson, referred to the third superfast scenario. Thanks to BDUK and £1.7 billion of public money, over 95% of UK premises already have access to superfast speeds, with savings and clawback due to deliver at least another 2% of coverage. The majority of this access has been delivered by providing fibre to the cabinet. However, we are not content with that, and I agree with the noble Lord, Lord Stevenson, and others. In his speech to the CBI last month, the Chancellor set a national target for full fibre—not just to the cabinet, but all the way to the premises. Our aim is for full fibre to 15 million premises by 2025, and all premises by 2033. So the Government are not short on ambition.

Likewise, at the Fibre Investment Conference, organised by the DDCMS and Ofcom in April this year, the Secretary of State spoke about creating a world-leading environment for investment in full fibre, and reaffirmed how vital full fibre is to building the capacity this country needs. That is why the Government are delivering a series of measures to realise these ambitions. The local full fibre networks programme and gigabit broadband voucher scheme are delivering fibre connections now and incentivising further commercial investment. The £400 million Digital Infrastructure Investment Fund is helping to finance alternative network providers, and the Treasury is further supporting investment through business rates relief for operators who install new fibre. The DDCMS future telecoms infrastructure review will soon publish a report looking at how we can create the best possible market structure to drive investment, and hit the Government’s targets to provide full fibre to all consumers.

The USO is part of these plans, but a higher speed USO would increase the direct costs of delivery as well as increasing the number of eligible premises. This may result in greater costs on consumers’ bills, and would increase competitive distortions. It would increase the risk of negatively affecting commercial incentives to invest. It is therefore crucial that, as a safety net, the USO works to support, and not unduly distort, the current and future market. The potential for market distortion limits what the USO can achieve.

I will try to respond to some of the points which noble Lords made. The noble Lord, Lord Aberdare, asked how the USO is going to be enforced. The order has been passed by both Houses and is now with Ofcom to implement. It will designate the provider and the industry cost-sharing fund. Ofcom expects this to take two years and it will consult on the provider this summer, so it is already working on that. That point was also made by the noble Earl, Lord Lytton. Once it is in place, the USO will enable the noble Earl to do exactly the things which he is complaining he cannot do now, so he should be glad about it.

The noble Lord, Lord Mendelsohn, talked about the needs of businesses, and of course he is right that in some cases a 10 Mbps speed is not sufficient. If you have a high-data business, that would not be ideal: for example, actuaries, whom I used to deal with, have huge data files. However, it will support many small businesses, and it provides access to every government service available.

First World War: Empire and Commonwealth Troops

Lord Ashton of Hyde Excerpts

Monday 4th June 2018 Lords Chamber

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department for Digital, Culture, Media and Sport (Lord Ashton of Hyde) (Con)]

My Lords, I thank my noble friend for proposing this excellent debate. As we have heard, troops from the Empire and Commonwealth played a critical part in the First World War, in many theatres and many roles—a crucial contribution that the Government have consistently recognised throughout the commemorations. The Government led the commemorations of the outbreak of the war, the Battle of Neuve-Chapelle, the Gallipoli campaign, and the Battles of Jutland, the Somme and Passchendaele. In August this year, we will mark the Battle of Amiens, a joint event that we are delivering with our partners from Australia and Canada as well as France and the United States, before turning our focus to the centenary of the Armistice in November.

Throughout these commemorations, we have highlighted and acknowledged the unwavering support of our then Empire and now Commonwealth partners. Their contribution, as so many noble Lords have said, tipped the scales in favour of the allies. They travelled many thousands of miles to answer the call, serving in all theatres of the war, and distinguished themselves time and again in the face of the most terrible conditions and fiercest resistance. Often, their contribution was critical to success, but at considerable cost. Of some 2.5 million men and women from the Commonwealth and Empire, some 200,000 made the ultimate sacrifice in defence of freedom. As my noble friend Lord Lexden has mentioned, in looking at any of these battles in which troops from the Empire and the Commonwealth fought, it is hard to disagree with David Lloyd George: without them, victory might well have eluded us.

It has been right and proper to highlight their significant contributions and to hear their stories and their accents throughout the events. We have been reminded in particular of individual countries’ contributions by my noble friend Lord Goodlad in respect of the Australians, the noble Lord, Lord Desai, in respect of India, the noble Baroness, Lady Benjamin, and my noble friend Lord Shrewsbury on the West Indies, and my noble friend Lord Black on Canada. We also heard about the personal connections of the noble Baroness, Lady Kingsmill, and my noble friend Lord Elton when they spoke in the gap. Their stories are indeed humbling.

We should also not forget that the Commonwealth countries have and will continue to deliver their own range of activities and events telling their own stories of the impact of this truly global conflict. I cite, for example, the opening this April of the new Australian Sir John Monash Centre in France and Canadian events in France to be held in August, as well as in Mons in Belgium on 10 and 11 November. In that month there will also be a New Zealand event to commemorate the capture of Le Quesnoy by the New Zealand Division.

Much of the Government’s wider programme reflects the contribution made by the former Empire and Commonwealth. “The Unremembered”, delivered by the Ministry of Housing, Communities and Local Government, tells some of the lesser-known stories of those who volunteered, such as the Indian Labour Corps and the New Zealand Pioneer Corps. They served in extremely arduous and hazardous conditions, with little recognition at the time. Again, the South African Native Labour Corps, in which 25,000 men enlisted, was remembered at the SS “Mendi” commemorations in 2017, as the noble Lord, Lord Griffiths, mentioned. In 2016, 14-18 NOW, which is our cultural delivery partner, produced “Dr Blighty” in Brighton. This was a spectacular light projection exploring the experience of Indian troops recuperating at the Royal Pavilion military hospital. I hope that the noble Lord, Lord Dholakia, was able to see it and thus be reminded of his youth—obviously his youth as a schoolboy, not in the First World War. I was pleased to attend the “Stories of Sacrifice” exhibition in Manchester marking the contribution of Muslim soldiers in the First World War and delivered by the British Muslim Heritage Centre.

Throughout 2018, the role played by people from the Empire and the Commonwealth will continue to be recognised by 14-18 NOW. “Xenos”, a dance piece combining archive sources with film and artistic reflections, explores the experience of an Indian soldier during the war. In September, John Akomfrah’s new multimedia installation remembers the millions of Africans who served during the First World War. The Government’s programme aims to enable people to commemorate those elements of the greatest significance to them. The Heritage Lottery Fund has supported a range of projects, including £94 million of funding for more than 1,400 community projects. “Empire, Faith and War: The Sikhs in World War One” was delivered by the United Kingdom Punjab Heritage Association with £480,000 of funding from the HLF. Others include “The Caribbean’s Great War”, exploring the role of the West India Committee, and the “Black on Both Sides” project, on the British black and colonial contribution to World War One, which has helped young people from British-African and Caribbean backgrounds to explore the role of black people who served during the war.

I am pleased to say to the noble Baroness, Lady Benjamin, and the noble Lord, Lord Watson, that government funding has also helped to support the Nubian Jak Community Trust to install Britain’s first dedicated African and Caribbean war memorial to service men and women from Africa and the Caribbean who served during World War One and World War Two in Windrush Square in Brixton. It was dedicated on Windrush Day 2017 and is a permanent reminder of the contribution made by men from Africa and the Caribbean during the war.

In speaking of the contribution of the Empire and the Commonwealth, it is appropriate to mention, as many noble Lords did, the marvellous work of the Commonwealth War Graves Commission in maintaining the graves of those who did make the ultimate sacrifice. Many thousands of casualties from the British Empire are buried in some 23,000 Commonwealth War Graves Commission sites in more than 150 countries around the world, and indeed in the UK. These sites are a permanent reminder of their sacrifice, and I will certainly take back from my noble friend Lord McInnes his views, and indeed those of the whole House, on our duty as a Government to support the commission’s work.

I want to answer some of the points that were made in the debate. I agree absolutely with the suggestion made by my noble friend Lord Lexden that it might be appropriate to have a full-scale debate before the end of the centenary commemorations. In fact, I have already asked the Chief Whip whether that would be possible and have received a positive answer—at least, as much as it is possible for him to give one. That would enable us to think about the whole four years and possibly about the legacy of these commemorations, which would be a great thing to do. I also agree with my noble friend that the Middle East campaign should receive more study, not least because of the strategic significance of that part of the world today.

The noble Baroness, Lady Benjamin, spoke of the service at the Commonwealth Memorial Gates attended by the Prime Minister and the Home Secretary. We are very clear that the main commemoration for the First World War and, indeed, other conflicts, is Remembrance Sunday on 11 November. It has a particular resonance, especially as this year, happily, Remembrance Sunday falls on 11 November. Along with our partners, we will make sure that this day is used to highlight the significant contribution from across the Commonwealth.

On commemorations of campaigns in the Middle East and elsewhere, Foreign and Commonwealth Office posts have managed local events, particularly in the Middle East, supported by the Commonwealth War Graves Commission.

With regard to the curriculum, I agree with the noble Baroness, Lady Flather, and my noble friend Lord McInnes, that it is important that pupils are taught about key events such as the First World War and all its ramifications. The current reformed national curriculum, which has been statutory since September 2014, states that pupils at key stage 3 should learn about,

“challenges for Britain, Europe and the wider world from 1901 to the present day”.

The First World War plays an important part in that, of course. However, we have not specified how individual schools should do that—the only exception so far is for the Holocaust.

[Baroness Flather]

I did not say that they should learn about the First World War—I think they do anyway—but that they need to know that Britain was not alone. The key thing is that it is very important for the growing generations to know that we have come here because we contributed to Britain’s well-being.

[Lord Ashton of Hyde]

That is a good point well made. What I have tried to explain today is that a lot of the events throughout the community, not just the relatively few central government-organised events, have addressed exactly that point: that we were not alone and that our partners, the members of the Empire and the Commonwealth, were actively involved. The Imperial War Museum’s schools programme is a good example of what has been done during these commemorations. There are lots of opportunities to go around and talk to young people—for example, the young people who have been helping in the commemoration of the third Battle of Ypres at the Commonwealth War Graves Commission. There has been a tremendous advance in the understanding and the interest shown in the First World War during these commemorations.

Throughout the war many thousands of men and women from around the Empire answered the call to arms. The war had a huge impact on these countries and their relationships with Britain. These relationships would be tested again in the Second World War, and the steadfastness of their support was not found wanting. Although the days of Empire are over, this shared history has undoubtedly influenced a continued friendship and co-operation in the Commonwealth as we know it today. I am sure that some of the issues raised by the noble Lord, Lord Griffiths, are rightly discussed there. As I have outlined, this contribution has been rightly reflected throughout the commemorations and we are very grateful for that commemoration. As the baton of remembrance is passed to future generations, I am confident that the role of the Empire and Commonwealth and the sacrifices made by so many young men and women will not be forgotten.

House adjourned at 7.40 pm.

Gaming Machines and Social Responsibility

Lord Ashton of Hyde Excerpts

Thursday 17th May 2018 Lords Chamber

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department for Digital, Culture, Media and Sport (Lord Ashton of Hyde) (Con)]

My Lords, with the leave of the House, I will now repeat a Statement made recently by my honourable friend the Minister for Sport and Civil Society in the other place. The Statement is as follows:

“Mr Speaker, with permission, I wish to make a Statement on the gambling review and the publication of our response to the consultation on proposals for changes to gaming machines and on social responsibility requirements across the gambling industry.

The Government announced a review of gaming machines and social responsibility measures in October 2016 in order to ensure that we have the right balance between a sector that can grow and contribute to the economy and one that is socially responsible and doing all it should to protect consumers and communities from harm. Underlying this objective was a deep focus on reducing gambling-related harm, protecting the vulnerable and making sure that those experiencing problems are getting the help they need.

Following a call for evidence, we set out a package of measures in a consultation which was published in October last year. These included social responsibility measures to minimise the risk of gambling-related harm, covering gambling advertising, online gambling, gaming machines and research, education and treatment. The consultation ran from 31 October 2017 to 23 January 2018. We received more than 7,000 survey responses from a wide range of interested parties. We received more than 240 submissions of supplementary information and evidence from the public, industry, local authorities, parliamentarians, academics and charities.

We welcome the responses to the consultation and, in preparing our conclusions, we have reflected on the evidence, concerns and issues that have been raised. We have considered these responses, alongside advice that we have received from the Gambling Commission as well as the Responsible Gambling Strategy Board. We have set out measures on gaming machines, as well as action across online, advertising, research, education and treatment and, more widely, the public health agenda in regard to gambling.

Before I set out the detail of this package of measures, let me say up front that we acknowledge that millions of people enjoy gambling responsibly, and we are committed to supporting a healthy gambling industry that generates employment and investment. But over the process of this review I have met many people who have experienced gambling addiction, and those who are supporting them, including parents who, sadly, lost their son to suicide as a result of the impact of gambling on his mental health. In addition, I have visited the incredible treatment services that are there to support them. We are clear that gambling can involve a serious risk of harm for individual players, as well as for their families and the communities they live in, and we must ensure that they are protected.

The Government are satisfied with the overall framework of gambling regulation but, as part of our action to build a fairer society and a stronger economy, we believe that when new evidence comes to light we need to act to target any gambling products or activities that cause concern. It is also important to acknowledge that while gambling-related harm is about more than any one product or gambling activity, there is a clear case for government to make targeted interventions to tackle the riskiest products, with the objective of reducing harm.

One product in particular, B2 gaming machines or fixed-odds betting terminals—FOBTs—generated enormous interest throughout the review process. In consultation, we set out the evidence for why we believe that targeted intervention is required on B2 gaming machines and options for stake reduction. Although overall problem gambling rates have remained unchanged since the Gambling Act 2005, it is clear that there remain consistently high rates of problem gamblers among players of these machines. Despite action by industry and the regulator, a high proportion of those seeking treatment for gambling addiction identify these machines as their main form of gambling.

According to data for 2015 across Great Britain, 11.5% of players of gaming machines in bookmakers are found to be problem gamblers. A further 32% are considered at risk of harm. The latest data for 2016 for England finds that 13.6% of players of gaming machines in bookmakers are problem gamblers—the highest rate for any gambling activity. We are concerned that factors such as these are further amplified by the relationship between the location of B2 gaming machines and areas of high deprivation, with these players tending to live in areas with greater levels of income deprivation than the population average. We also know that those who are unemployed are more likely to most often stake £100 than any other socioeconomic group.

Following our analysis of all the evidence and advice we received, we have come to the conclusion that only by reducing the maximum stake from £100 to £2 will we substantially impact on harm to the player and to wider communities. A £2 stake will reduce the ability to suffer high session losses, our best proxy for harm, while also targeting the greatest proportion of problem gamblers. It will mitigate risk for the most vulnerable players, for whom even moderate losses might be harmful.

In particular, we note from gaming machine data that of the 170,000 sessions on B2 roulette machines that ended with losses to the player of over £1,000, none involved average stakes of £2 or below, but at stakes of £5 to £10 losses of this scale still persist. At a £2 stake it is very hard for a player to even lose more than £500 in a session. Out of approximately 600,000 sessions that involved losses of between £500 and £1,000, only 14 of those cases involved average stakes of £2 or below. However, losses of this scale also persist at even £5 or £10. Clearly losses of £500 or £1,000 in one sitting might be harmful to problem and non-problem gamblers alike.

The response to our consultation has been overwhelmingly in support of a significant reduction in B2 stakes. The majority of respondents to the consultation submitted opinions in favour of a £2 limit, indicating strong public approval for this step. This included local authorities, charities, faith groups, parliamentarians, interest groups and academics. I am grateful for the cross-party work that has been undertaken on this issue, and would like to pay particular tribute to the honourable Member for Swansea East and the right honourable Member for Chingford and Woodford Green.

Elsewhere in the industry we are, for the time being, maintaining the status quo across all other gaming machine stakes, prizes and allocations. We have, however, agreed to an uplift for stakes and prizes on prize gaming, which we consider sufficiently low risk.

We are aware that the factors which influence the extent of harm to a given player are wider than any one product, and include factors around the player, the product and the environment. The response therefore also sets out action on: increasing player protection measures on other gaming machines on the high street; increasing protections around online gambling, including stronger age verification rules and proposals to require operators to set limits on consumers’ spending until affordability checks have been conducted; doing more on research, education and treatment of problem gambling, including a review by Public Health England of the evidence relating to the public health harms of gambling; enhancing protections around gambling advertising, including a major multimillion-pound advertising campaign led by GambleAware, around responsible gambling, to be launched later this year; and filling the gaps in evidence around advertising and harm with substantial new research commissioned by GambleAware on the effects of gambling advertising and marketing on children, young people and vulnerable groups.

Looking ahead, we will also be considering the issue of 16 year-olds playing National Lottery products as part of the next licence competition for the National Lottery. We will aim to gather evidence on this issue with sufficient time to consider it fully ahead of the next licence competition.

Changes to B2 stakes will be effected through regulations in Parliament. The move will need parliamentary approval and, in recognition of the potential impact of this change for betting shops, we will also engage with the gambling industry to ensure it is given sufficient time for implementation. In addition, in order to cover any negative impact on the public finances, and to protect funding for vital public services, this change will be linked to an increase in remote gaming duty, paid by online operators. The Chancellor will set out more detail on this at the relevant Budget.

To conclude, we want a healthy gambling industry that contributes to the economy, but also one that does all it can to protect players and their families, as well as the wider communities, from harm. We will work with the industry on the impact of these changes and are confident that this innovative sector will step up and help achieve the necessary balance”.

My Lords, that concludes the Statement.

--- Later in debate ---

[Lord Foster of Bath (LD)]

My Lords, in the other place in 2010 I proposed that the stake for a fixed-odds betting terminal be reduced to £2, and in 2015 my noble friend Lord Clement-Jones introduced a Private Member’s Bill in your Lordships’ House proposing the same. We knew then that FOBTs were blighting the lives of thousands of gamblers and their families, and that the betting shops blighting our high streets were getting something like 70% of their profits from these terminals, which were a catalyst for anti-social behaviour and serious crime. So we on these Benches very much welcome the Statement that has been made today.

However, as the Minister acknowledged in the Statement, this has been a cross-party campaign to get changes, and I, too, pay tribute to Carolyn Harris and all members of the All-Party Parliamentary Group on Fixed Odds Betting Terminals. Outwith politics, there have been many, including the churches—and I pay a particular tribute to the right reverend Prelate the Bishop of St Albans for the work that he has done —and many within the gambling industry itself who have also been campaigning for this change to take place. Many tributes have been paid to the late Baroness Tessa Jowell, and I support all them all. I will make one further one, because it was the noble Baroness who, as Secretary of State in 2005, introduced the legislation that allowed the establishment of fixed-odds betting terminals. It is to her enormous credit that she showed bravery and courage when, two years ago, she publicly acknowledged that she and her Government at the time had got it wrong. She would be the first to say that the decision today is the right decision for the families and individuals who have been affected, and for society—but I am sure that she would have gone further and said that there is still more to be done in relation to online gambling and the advertising of gambling.

I have three quick questions to the Minister. The first is that the Statement makes it clear that this move will need parliamentary approval and that there is still to be further consultation with the gambling industry to ensure that it is given “sufficient time for implementation”. I think that all of us are anxious for this change to take place as rapidly as possible. Can the Minister give us an indication of the timeframe that he envisages before we see a £2 maximum limit?

Many concerns have been expressed about the number of betting shops on our high streets. Although changes were made in 2015, will the Minister acknowledge that the planned changes to the National Planning Policy Framework would give an opportunity to enhance the powers that local authorities have to be able to take action if problems emerge in future following this change?

Finally, I welcome very much that Public Health England is to conduct an evidence review into the health aspects of gambling-related harm. We are all keen to ensure that enough money is made available by the industry to pay for research into, education around and treatment of gambling problems. Will the Minister tell your Lordships’ House whether the time has not come to change the current voluntary levy to a compulsory one? As I have said in your Lordships’ House before, it is very strange that the compulsory levy for horseracing raises 10 times more to support horses than the voluntary levy currently raises to support people. The time has come to change that.

[Lord Ashton of Hyde]

My Lords, I am very grateful to the two Front Benches for their comments. They are welcome to this announcement. It is a great pleasure to be congratulated for a change, and I genuinely am very grateful for that. I absolutely take noble Lords’ point that it was a cross-party effort to change this. As the noble Lord, Lord Foster, said, he has been around a long time and he has been at this particular subject for some time—I am glad that he is glad that what he wanted has finally come to pass. I, too, pay tribute to Carolyn Harris and the work of the cross-party APPG, and I am sure I shall have a chance to acknowledge other contributions later. I will also pass on the noble Lord’s mention of Tracey Crouch. She has taken this on as a personal crusade in many ways, so I will pass on those views.

As is only to be expected, a number of other points were raised, some possibly with disappointment, as were some questions. Both noble Lords mentioned the levy. This has been an ongoing discussion point. The reason we have not introduced a compulsory statutory levy at the moment is that we want the industry, Gamble Aware and the commission to build and improve on the voluntary system. We want them to do this voluntarily and with enthusiasm; we want them to be socially responsible and we expect them to make a lot of progress on this. This announcement today shows that if they do not, and if they are not socially responsible, we will be prepared to legislate. I am absolutely clear, as the Secretary of State has been, that if we do not get the right level of contribution and enthusiasm from the industry, we will consider legislation.

The noble Lord, Lord Griffiths, talked about children gambling and we absolutely understand the issues about children, the possible effect of online gambling on them and the normalisation of gambling, which is an issue to be aware of. Strict controls are, of course, already in place to prevent children gambling online or in individual premises. These are enforced by the Gambling Commission, which is actively looking at increasing the protections online. We have outlined in the response today some of the extra things that we are doing to protect children. The fact is that most gambling by children at the moment is legal—such as betting in playgrounds and so on. We are absolutely aware of the problems, and I can assure noble Lords that we will monitor this. The additional features that we have announced today will help, but this is not the end of the story; we will continue to monitor these things.

The noble Lord, Lord Foster, talked about implementation. We want to get on with this. We have waited long enough and we have sat and listened to a lot of representations from a lot of people. We have made this decision and we want to get on with it. However, this has to go through Parliament, and I hope noble Lords will give it their support when it arrives here. We want, equally, to engage with the gambling industry, because—quite possibly this is the only bad thing about today—there will be some job losses. There are mitigating factors in this: we have a very full employment situation, the possible job losses are spread around the country and there are measures to help, but there will be some involuntary redundancies as a result of this. Interestingly, however, the gambling operators’ own figures showed that there would be about 3,200 job losses by 2020, even if we had not changed the stake at all, because the mood of the public is changing on this. I cannot set out an exact timetable today, but obviously we want to carry on with implementation and do it as quickly as we can.

The noble Lord, Lord Griffiths, asked about contactless cards. We made clear at the consultation stage that we had concerns about the introduction of contactless payment on gaming machines, but there appears to be continued industry-wide support for the introduction of contactless payments. This gives the potential for corresponding player protection measures that could be introduced alongside this form of payment, because of the data that can be received from them.

The noble Lord, Lord Foster, asked about the powers of local authorities. Of course we understand the concerns about the number of betting shops on the high street. Although the numbers have been stable over the past year, they are actually in decline, and I think the effect of what we have announced today will mean that there will be less to be concerned about. We will have to see what the impact is and whether it is quite as bad as the industry says—we will have to see, as the figures are not absolutely clear. We will have to monitor that, and I can assure the noble Lord that we will do so.

I say again that I am very grateful for the welcome that noble Lords have given. Lastly, I agree entirely with the noble Lord, Lord Foster, about the bravery of Baroness Jowell, not only in facing her death but in being able to say that they had got it wrong. To his credit, Tom Watson for the Labour Party said the same this morning.

[The Lord Bishop of St Albans]

My Lords, I too welcome this Statement, which represents a significant progress in our efforts to bring about a sensible and ordered scheme of gambling regulation in this country. I also pay tribute to the Minister in this House, to the Minister in the other place, to the Secretary of State and to the Prime Minister for their moral courage in the face of a lot of opposition in making this excellent decision, not least to reduce the stakes for FOBTs down to £2.

I note that the report includes a whole section on gambling advertising. Many Members, in both Houses, are deeply concerned about the normalisation of gambling at a very formative time for children, not least because of the wall-to-wall adverts that are shown via various forms of media but especially online, and because of the development of games which in themselves are not gambling but are designed to encourage people to undertake these sorts of activities and normalise them for later in life. Could the noble Lord tell us a little more about how that might be addressed and when some of this will be implemented?

[Lord Ashton of Hyde]

My Lords, I am grateful to the right reverend Prelate, who has led on this subject and has, I know, spent a lot of time worrying about this and making positive suggestions. I am glad he is glad about this announcement.

Of course we understand the issues around children and advertising, and that is why gambling advertisements must not be targeted at children. They must not be shown around children’s programmes or include anything that appeals particularly to children or young people or that exploits them. Tougher guidance is being published on what that means by the Committee of Advertising Practice. As we set out in the consultation, the number of TV gambling advertisements seen by children has been going down each year since 2013. However, we are not complacent, and that is why we are setting out a package of measures on advertising today. We understand the right reverend Prelate’s point that advertising could normalise gambling for children, and that is why the strict controls on children’s advertising apply. As far as games and skins and things like that are concerned, the Advertising Standards Authority is aware and the Gambling Commission has cracked down hard on operators that try to get round the rules by using games and non-monetary prizes in games online.

[Lord Cormack (Con)]

My Lords, I add my thanks and congratulations to my noble friend. He should bask in this glory while he can, but may I just say to him that I hope the Government will have a target date for implementation? One understands that there has to be time, but could we please fix a date—the end of the year, perhaps—by which this will come into force? Every week that goes by adds to human misery. Could we perhaps also suggest to those who want to have a £2 flutter that they can benefit their communities if they buy lottery tickets?

[Lord Ashton of Hyde]

My noble friend makes a good point. I have spent many minutes—possibly even hours—not giving a timetable for various things, and I am afraid that I cannot be very specific today. I can only repeat to my noble friend what I said before. We have spent a lot of time considering this issue and have taken a lot of advice, and people have expressed strong opinions. We have now come to a decision and therefore want to implement it. There are procedures to go through —it has to go through Parliament—and we will do what we can to implement it. However, I am unable today to give a precise timetable, not least because the parliamentary timetable is somewhat uncertain.

[Viscount Falkland (CB)]

My Lords, I congratulate the Government on finally taking action on the casino gaming machines in betting shops. One must not be too harsh about the bookmakers, because the history here is of course that betting on horses and greyhounds—the traditional betting in betting shops—has declined enormously, as people tend now to bet more and more online. This will be a sad day for bookmakers, with the reduction of the amount to be bet on these machines. I do not know whether that is the right amount; I would not criticise it, but it will make the bookmakers’ position quite difficult. There will be job losses, and so on. When I was on the pre-legislative scrutiny committee on the draft gambling Bill I tried to persuade the Government and the DCMS officials of the problems with gambling, particularly on machines in betting shops. But since then four machines have been allowed. I argued the toss with Baroness Jowell, one of the nicest women you could possibly argue with, and it was a great pleasure to work against her. Along with a number of my colleagues, I did not like the Bill that came forward, because it did not deal with the realities. I say to my ex-noble friend Lord Foster that it is not right to criticise the owners—

[Viscount Falkland]

Does the Minister agree that the remarks of the noble Lord, Lord Foster, on the question of whether horses are valued more than people and the dangers of addiction and racing are somewhat misplaced? Racing has the greatest difficulty in funding national competitions. Could the Minister comment on that?

[Lord Ashton of Hyde]

I am very keen on people and horses, so I will not say that one is more important. On the noble Viscount’s point about the bookmakers, I understand about jobs, the difficulties that some bookmakers will face and the possible effect on racing. We have been clear that this will involve some job losses, but it is not right that a business operates on a business model that creates a significant amount of harm to some vulnerable people. As I said earlier on, we want a responsible gambling industry that is strong and secure. As regards racing, we are keen to support it; for example, we have already allowed the bookmakers on the course, most of whom have a gross gambling income of less than half a million pounds a year, not to have to pay the levy at all. We have put the statutory levy on online bookmakers, raising an extra £35 million a year, and we will monitor to review the rate of the horse race betting levy; we originally said that we would review it by 2024 but we have said that if necessary, when we see what the effect of these changes are, we will bring that review forward. Ultimately, however, this is the right decision for people in the gambling industry.

[Baroness McIntosh of Pickering (Con)]

My Lords, I speak as a member of the all-party group on racing. Does my noble friend not agree that the implication for market towns with a high proportion of betting shops is that they will have a disproportionately high number of job losses, with the internet companies being let off the hook?

[Lord Ashton of Hyde]

No, I do not agree. The evidence is that these betting shops are overwhelmingly in urban places and places with economic deprivation. The majority of them are in London, which alone has 22% of these shops. In addition, there is very high employment in this particular jobs market, so there is a good chance of people being able to get another job. A very important point is that the money spent on FOBTs and betting gaming machines will now be spent on other things in the economy, and sometimes it will be better spent than on FOBTs.

[Lord Wigley (PC)]

My Lords, I very warmly welcome the announcement of the £2 stake. Perhaps I may follow up on the words of the right reverend Prelate about the impact of advertising on children. Does the Minister accept that it is not just children’s programmes that need to avoid such advertising but, in particular, sports programmes which appeal to children? Will the Government take that into account?

[Lord Ashton of Hyde]

Yes, we will take that into account. That is why GambleAware is commissioning further research into the impact of marketing and advertising on children and young people. It will include how advertising influences attitudes to gambling, so I understand the noble Lord’s point. For example, that is why logos and so on are not allowed on sports shirts sold to those under the age of 18.

[Lord Campbell-Savours (Lab)]

My Lords, some of us predicted these problems when the Bill went through in 2005. Sadly, we were ignored. What assessment has been made of the possibility of drift into other high-stake gambling products as a result of this measure? I congratulate the Government on their courage in taking what I believe is an absolutely critical decision.

--- Later in debate ---

[Lord Ashton of Hyde]

I think that there is a possibility of drift, as the noble Lord called it, and we have certainly taken that into account. The most obvious point is that gambling will move online from betting shops, but there is an advantage in that, in that it is an account-based system. With the data that comes from online sources, gambling operators are able to spot problem gamblers using modern technology, artificial intelligence, algorithms and things like that. We have said to the gambling industry that we expect it to use this technology to improve the way in which it spots problem gamblers, and I think that it will be a lot easier for it to do that when it moves online. However, it is of course a problem and we will be monitoring it. We have put forward specific proposals in today’s response to address it.

[Lord Sherbourne of Didsbury (Con)]

My Lords, I too congratulate the department on undertaking a very effective consultation exercise and then taking very decisive action. Does my noble friend the Minister agree that this is an example that other government departments could usefully follow?

[Lord Ashton of Hyde]

I am sure that the Secretary of State would agree with that. The difference here is that it was a very popular decision, which always makes it easier.

[Lord McNally (LD)]

My Lords, will the Minister take a more sober judgment? In 2005 this House, and Parliament as a whole, thought that it had done a magnificent thing in stopping the advent of super-casinos. It was the euphoria of stopping them that allowed for the introduction of gambling machines to go through almost unnoticed. There is a danger in the euphoria here also. I think that the noble Lord, Lord Campbell-Savours, and others are right. It is the growth of online gambling and the changes in technology that afford it that will give us the next problem. I urge that the research and analysis into online gambling is carried out with rigour and it is not simply left to the industry to self-regulate, clever as it may be with its artificial intelligence and its algorithms. Independent research is needed, which can advise government in the future, otherwise this problem will come back in another form.

[Lord Ashton of Hyde]

I take that point. I am absolutely not suggesting that today’s announcement is the end of it. We will be very specific: the Gambling Commission is looking at requiring operators to set limits on customer spending until affordability checks have been concluded and at bringing forward stricter licence requirements for gambling companies to interact with vulnerable customers. This is not something that we are just letting them get on with; it is being required of them. If a company were to break such stricter licence requirements, it could lose its licence. There would be very serious sanctions if a company did it wrong. The Gambling Commission is also examining proposals to prohibit reverse withdrawals and the use of credit cards for online gambling. We will continue to pay close attention to the operators’ progress in using behavioural data to identify problem gamblers. We are not just sitting back and saying that this is it. We are monitoring it. The Gambling Commission continues to monitor it and is putting in stricter conditions.

[Lord Browne of Belmont (DUP)]

My Lords, I very much welcome the Statement today and congratulate the Minister on achieving the £2 stake. We have heard that problem gamblers could now turn to online sites in a big way. Does the Minister therefore agree that this is the time for the Government to look again at introducing measures, such as those that operate in Sweden, to restrict late-night internet gambling and, as he said, ensure that only debit cards and not credit cards can be used as a means of paying the stake?

[Lord Ashton of Hyde]

I have said that this is not the end. As an aim, we want to encourage responsible gambling, so of course we will take into account suggestions such as that from the noble Lord. We are not against gambling, but we want it to be responsible. There is opportunity to monitor it more if it is done online, because of the data that goes backwards and forwards. We will look at these things and we expect policy-making on this to be evidence-based. One thing we will do is increase the research to make sure that we have good evidence that this is a problem, as we have on FOBTs, and that the solution will achieve the result that we want.

[Lord Stevenson of Balmacara (Lab)]

My Lords, several noble Lords have mentioned that this is a package and have welcomed the reduction in the stake for FOBTs, which I endorse entirely. However, the 78-page document that accompanies the Statement is a bit thin on action, so I wonder whether the noble Lord can respond to two points. On advertising, which is really important, we are getting guidance on tone and content and on children and young people, and the welcome, if limited, news that a “responsible gambling” message will appear during TV adverts. At least there is action, but it is not exactly action at a punitive level against the harms we see already. On online gambling, which around the House we are all agreed is the next big problem, all we seem to be getting is a round table and a clear plan of action to come forward at some future unspecified date from the Gambling Commission. Is there not a need for more urgency across this range of issues?

[Lord Ashton of Hyde]

I do not agree that this is just a series of guidance. First, as far as advertising is concerned, plenty of things are happening already. There are strict controls on gambling advertising. There are rules to prevent it being aimed at children. Those apply across all advertising, so that is happening already. There has also been progress on measures that were mentioned in the consultation, such as strengthening rules on gambling advertising. The Committee of Advertising Practice has published tough new guidance already on protecting the vulnerable. From June, a responsible message will appear on the screen. The Gambling Commission has consulted on expanding sanctions for a full breach of the advertising code. I mentioned before the social responsibility provisions that the Gambling Commission can produce.

Not only that, we are suggesting more. There is a multimillion-pound, industry-funded safer gambling advertising campaign. That is not a small amount: it is £5 million to £7 million for two years running, which is a social advertising campaign equivalent to a big health campaign such as the Drink Drive campaign, which was remarkably successful. Further guidance on protecting children will be produced later this year. Guidance is important to enable people to do what we have asked them to do. GambleAware has commissioned significant research on the impact of marketing and advertising on children and young people. These things are designed to strengthen existing protections, so I am afraid that I reject the criticisms of the noble Lord, Lord Stevenson.

Tourism

Lord Ashton of Hyde Excerpts

Monday 14th May 2018 Lords Chamber

[Lord Lee of Trafford (LD)]

I beg leave to ask the Question standing in my name on the Order Paper. In doing so, I declare an interest as chairman of the Association of Leading Visitor Attractions.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department for Digital, Culture, Media and Sport (Lord Ashton of Hyde) (Con)]

My Lords, the Government recognise that tourism is vital to the UK economy. Tourism makes important contributions to local economies across the UK and is particularly significant in rural and coastal areas. In 2016, direct tourism GVA was estimated to be worth £66.1 billion to the UK economy, a 2.2% increase on 2015. The sector is predicted to grow at an annual rate of 3.8% through to 2025.

[Lord Lee of Trafford]

My Lords, last year’s tourism growth was four times greater than that of the overall economy. Tourism is now arguably the number one industry in more parliamentary constituencies than any other single industry, and future developments such as Diageo’s £150 million investment in its whisky distilleries’ visitor centres, the £28 million upgrade to Blackpool’s Winter Gardens and the £55 million master plan for the Royal Albert Hall will provide complementary boosts to design and construction industries and food and drink manufacturers.

In Northern Ireland, 8.5% of the total jobs are in tourism. Approximately 500,000 visitors cross the border from the Republic of Ireland annually, 30% of them visitors to Titanic Belfast. Does the Minister accept that any hard border would be a big no-no for Northern Ireland’s tourism?

[Lord Ashton of Hyde]

My Lords, in her Mansion House speech, the PM made a commitment to avoid a hard border, which is important because 28% of all visits to Northern Ireland by residents from outside the island of Ireland arrived at a port or airport in Ireland. We understand that Northern Ireland’s visitor attractions, including the Titanic and the Giant’s Causeway, rely heavily on external visitors, many of whom travel across the border.

[Lord Faulkner of Worcester (Lab)]

My Lords, may I ask the Minister a slightly shorter question? Is he aware of the contribution that heritage railways make to the tourist economy? On the latest estimate, it is somewhere between £250 million and £300 million a year, particularly in the coastal and rural areas to which he referred in his Answer. Could he please have a look at the Written Answer his noble friend Lord Henley gave me last week about the future supplies of coal, which are so important to steam railways, and give an assurance that, after 2023, coal supplies will continue to be available?

[Lord Ashton of Hyde]

My Lords, I do not have specific figures on heritage railways, but I can assure the noble Lord that I shall not shunt his question into a siding and, with the help of my noble friend Lord Henley, I shall endeavour to smoke out the answer.

[Lord Popat (Con)]

My Lords, tourism is the third or fourth largest export earner for the UK. Since we relaxed the tourism visa for the Chinese, we have more than doubled the number of Chinese people coming to the UK. Are we proposing to do the same thing for some of Africa and India?

[Lord Ashton of Hyde]

My noble friend makes a good point. We have offered a two-year visa to the Chinese since 2016 for the same price as a six-month visa. This is a pilot scheme that is currently being evaluated, and we have no plans to stop that. However, until the pilot scheme has been evaluated, there are no plans to extend it.

[Lord Bilimoria (CB)]

My Lords, to build on what the noble Lord, Lord Popat, just said, the precise figure is £85 for a two-year multiple entry visa from China since 2016, whereas from India the figure is four times that, at nearly £350. With India being one of the fastest-growing economies in the world, and a huge number of tourists from India going abroad, we are losing out on those tourist visitors. Would the Minister agree with that? Secondly, the Government’s plan for Brexit is to do free trade deals around the world. Free trade deals are about movement of people. Without doing this, do the British Government think they will have a free trade deal with India? Dream on!

[Lord Ashton of Hyde]

My Lords, I have not seen any evidence that the cost of visas has penalised tourism from India. Although visas are constantly being looked at by the Home Office, the tourism industry overall has gone from strength to strength, with year-on-year increases since 2012.

[Lord Clark of Windermere (Lab)]

Does the Minister accept that the motor car is one of the greatest challenges to the tourist industry, and that we are not helped when railway companies, such as Northern, frequently cancel trains? Two weeks ago, 94 trains on the Lakes line into the Lake District were cancelled in a single week. Will the Government look at the possibility of forcing Northern Rail to run a proper service into the Lake District?

--- Later in debate ---

[Lord Ashton of Hyde]

I agree that a proper service is important for tourism. One of our main problems at the moment is persuading tourists from outside the UK to go to places apart from London, which accounts for 58% of visits. It therefore follows that a proper transport infrastructure is essential to get visitors away from London to look at the benefits of our wonderful heritage.

[Baroness Doocey (LD)]

My Lords, VisitBritain estimates that the UK will attract more than 40 million overseas visitors this year, following six years of record-breaking growth. However, the UK is losing market share because many of our competitors, particularly the major ones, are spending much more than us on promoting their countries abroad. Will the Government act to secure the long-term future of Britain’s tourism industry by including this vital sector in the modern industrial strategy?

[Lord Ashton of Hyde]

Absolutely. That is why the tourism industry has brought its sector deal together. It is with BEIS at the moment and I believe the department will comment on it imminently.

[Lord Faulkner of Worcester]

My Lords, in my enthusiasm to ask my question, I omitted to declare my interest as president of the Heritage Railway Association.

Historic Cathedrals

Lord Ashton of Hyde Excerpts

Monday 14th May 2018 Lords Chamber

[Lord Cormack]

To ask Her Majesty’s Government what plans they have to assist England’s historic cathedrals.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department for Digital, Culture, Media and Sport (Lord Ashton of Hyde) (Con)]

My Lords, cathedrals are powerful symbols of our history, and we are committed to supporting these important buildings through the £42 million Listed Places of Worship Grant Scheme. We also provided £40 million of funding via the First World War Centenary Cathedral Repairs Fund, which closed last year. Cathedrals can apply to the Heritage Lottery Fund for funding for a range of projects, including capital repair. HLF has invested £120 million in protecting and conserving these iconic buildings.

[Lord Cormack (Con)]

My Lords, I am grateful for what my noble friend said. However, he must realise that we are talking of the most important group of historic buildings in our land. The cost of their maintenance is enormous and, while the money he referred to has been most gratefully received, we really need—I ask him to consider this—an endowment fund for cathedrals, independently administered. If he would like to see at first hand the complexities of maintaining a great cathedral—perhaps the greatest of them all—would he accept my invitation and come as my guest to Lincoln?

[Lord Ashton of Hyde]

My Lords, as I said, we accept that the cost of repairing and maintaining these significant and marvellous old buildings is enormous, so I am glad that 57 of our wonderful cathedrals were able to benefit from the First World War fund. At the moment there are no new plans for new funding aimed specifically at cathedrals—but, of course, the listed places of worship scheme continues, as does the HLF scheme under which cathedrals and other places of worship can apply for maintenance.

Further to that, we are currently exploring new models of financing the repair and maintenance of church buildings through a pilot scheme under the Taylor review. Although the review did not talk specifically about cathedrals, the lessons from it can apply. I know, for example, that my noble friend has already been to see the Chief Secretary to the Treasury to put the case for more funding.

As for Lincoln, a couple of weeks ago I spent some time looking at what was going on at Hereford. In due course, diary permitting, I will be very pleased to go to Lincoln as well—as long as I can go on the roof and have a look.

[Lord Griffiths of Burry Port (Lab)]

My Lords, I speak as one who for 21 years had responsibility for the place fondly known around the world as the “Cathedral of Methodism”. For 17 of those years I was also an ecumenical canon and a member of the Cathedral Council at St Paul’s, collaborating closely with Westminster Abbey. Earlier in this Session, we heard Questions about the importance of the tourist industry for our economy generally. Certainly the number of visitors who flock through our cathedrals is a significant part of that activity—but, as the Minister hinted, much of that is concentrated in London. Would the plea of a Methodist to endow the cathedrals of this country for the established Church add weight to any decisions that the Minister might be led to make?

[Lord Ashton of Hyde]

My Lords, I feel that I am really on the noble Lord’s ground here and that I am visiting, as it were. However, I assure him that we are looking not just at the established Church but at other places of worship, particularly those that are listed. There are many examples of places where money, particularly from the First World War cathedrals fund, has gone—it has been spread all around the country.

[Lord Lexden (Con)]

Has my noble friend noted the sharp drop in the number of people visiting Salisbury Cathedral since the recent nerve poison attack? Are there steps that the Government can take to help revive tourism in that magnificent cathedral city?

[Lord Ashton of Hyde]

My Lords, I am going back to my tourism notes. I am not sure that there is concrete evidence that visitor numbers decline after terrorist incidents, but there is anecdotal evidence to support that. The DCMS has committed £100,000 to VisitEngland and VisitWiltshire to support the recovery of tourism in Salisbury. Indeed, the Minister for Tourism will visit Salisbury a week today to see how the recovery is progressing. We regularly engage with areas that have suffered, as Salisbury has, from terrorist activity. We are of course aware of those issues and do our best to support them.

[The Lord Bishop of Leeds]

My Lords, does the Minister agree that underlying this Question is the need for some long-term attention to be given to cathedrals, rather than having one-off initiatives such as the First World War repairs fund? I extend to him an invitation to visit my diocese—I am the only bishop with three cathedrals, so I can take him on a tour.

[Lord Ashton of Hyde]

I would of course be delighted to see at least one of them. I accept what the right reverend Prelate said. We look carefully at these issues and understand that it would be nice to have an endowment fund. As I said, this is really a matter for the Chancellor, and my noble friend Lord Cormack, along with, I believe, the deans of several cathedrals, has been to see the Chief Secretary to the Treasury to talk about this. I believe that that was one of the draft recommendations of a Cathedrals Working Group report, which has not yet been agreed by the Church.

[Baroness Howe of Idlicote (CB)]

My Lords, does the Minister agree that, quite apart from their historic role in this country, cathedrals play a huge role in the community, with all sorts of activities being conducted within their premises? Under those circumstances, surely it is important that the Government consider widening the scope of the finance that cathedrals have at their disposal.

[Lord Ashton of Hyde]

I agree that cathedrals can be used for wider civic events and for things that are not directly concerned with the religion that they deal with. That is yet another reason to support them—and, clearly, the Government have spent many tens of millions of pounds doing just that. I do not think that there is any need for me to reinforce the desire of the Government to support these buildings. We accept that, for aesthetic and many other reasons, they are worthy of support.

[Lord Addington (LD)]

My Lords, to return to the long term, does the Minister agree that the supply of skilled workers is essential if we are to maintain these buildings? Bearing that in mind, will the Government have a quick look at what is being done on apprenticeships at the moment? Many dyslexics, for instance, have found skills in areas such as stonemasonry, but, currently, only those with an education and healthcare plan—around one-quarter of those identified—are getting help to take these qualifications. Surely we can help dyslexics and historic buildings at the same time.

[Lord Ashton of Hyde]

I agree with the noble Lord. When I visited Hereford a couple of weeks ago, I went to see the stonemasons’ workshop, which was taking on apprentices who were doing exactly that. It was a very good thing.

[Lord Foulkes of Cumnock (Lab)]

My Lords, I, too, welcome support of any kind from the Government for English cathedrals of any denomination. But, given recent threats from down the other end of this building, what is the Minister going to do to ensure the preservation of other great national treasures such as the noble Lord, Lord Cormack?

[Noble Lords]

Oh!

[Lord Ashton of Hyde]

I think the only possible way is to list him.

Data Protection Bill [HL]

Lord Ashton of Hyde Excerpts

Monday 14th May 2018 Lords Chamber

Moved by

[Lord Ashton of Hyde]

That this House do agree with the Commons in their Amendments 1 to 28.

1: Clause 3, page 2, line 25, leave out “personal data” and insert “information”

--- Later in debate ---

28: Clause 50, page 30, line 17, leave out “21 days” and insert “1 month”

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department for Digital, Culture, Media and Sport (Lord Ashton of Hyde) (Con)]

My Lords, with the leave of the House, I beg to move that this House do agree with the Commons in their Amendments 1 to 28. I will speak also to the other amendments in this group.

It is my pleasure to be able to open Lords Consideration of Commons amendments to the Data Protection Bill this afternoon. As we discussed at length when the Bill first passed through your Lordships’ House, this is a detailed and often quite technical Bill, intended to make our data protection laws fit for the digital age. It went through a period of review and revision under your Lordships’ supervision, and it has since been refined further in the other place. It now falls on us to review, and I hope agree, those refinements. I am very grateful to my noble and learned friend Lord Keen and my noble friend Lady Williams for helping me with some of these key areas today.

In setting out the reasoning behind the Commons amendments today, I will focus my remarks on the substantive changes made rather than the technical tweaks, of which there are many. This first group of amendments addresses the Commons amendments to Parts 1 and 2. I shall start with the subject of parish councils, a cause previously championed by my noble friend Lord Marlesford, and I declare an interest in that my wife is a parish councillor.

Parish and community councils are not exempt from the new law. Nonetheless, by describing parish and community councils as “public authorities”, the Bill gives these councils additional obligations above and beyond those placed on other small organisations, including that they must appoint a data protection officer. We have been working to minimise the impact of this requirement—for example, by exploring options for parish councils to share a data protection officer.

However, since the Bill left your Lordships’ House, we have concluded that as parish and community councils process very little personal data and often have few staff and small budgets, the burden that they will face may be disproportionate in some instances. I am therefore pleased to say that Commons Amendments 8, 9, and 10 would take these councils out of the definition of “public authorities” for data protection purposes. Their status in respect of other legislation, including the Freedom of Information Act, is unaffected.

Since the introduction of this Bill, it has been brought to our attention by a range of stakeholders from all sides of the political divide that there is concern about how processing for the purpose of democratic engagement should be treated for the purposes of the GDPR. I remember especially the contributions from the noble Lord, Lord Kennedy, and others on this subject, and I have met him to discuss these issues. I am grateful for his time and commitment.

As I have said before, the Government believe that there is a strong public interest in political parties and elected representatives and officials being able to engage with the public both inside and outside elections, which may sometimes include the processing of personal data. Having considered the matter further since then, the Government have concluded that it would be prudent to make provision in the Bill, to provide greater clarity to those operating in this space. Helpfully, Clause 8 already provides high-level examples of processing activities which the Government consider could be undertaken on the grounds of public interest.

As a consequence of the importance that the Government attach to the matter, Commons Amendment 12 would add,

“an activity that supports or promotes democratic engagement”,

to that list. This term has been deliberately chosen with the intention of covering a range of activities carried out with a view to encouraging the general public to get involved in the exercise of democracy. That could include activities such as communicating with electors, campaigning activities, supporting candidates and elected representatives, casework, surveying and opinion gathering, and fundraising to support such activities. We will ensure that the Explanatory Notes include such examples to assist the interpretation of what this provision means in practice.

However, any processing of personal data in connection with these activities would have to be necessary for the purpose and have a legal basis. That is why we can be clear that firms like Cambridge Analytica will not be able to claim public interest irrespective of whether Amendment 12 is agreed today. The amendment does not seek to create partisan advantage for any one side or to create new exemptions from the data protection legislation; it is intended to provide greater clarity and allow legitimate political activity to continue. The amendment is also technology neutral, given that in a short time we have moved from physical post to email, text, Twitter, Facebook, WhatsApp and Snapchat, and no doubt other means that I do not know about.

--- Later in debate ---

[Lord Ashton of Hyde]

My Lords, I am grateful to the noble Lords, Lord Clement-Jones and Lord Kennedy, for their positive remarks. There are a lot of amendments so, as I said before, I will try to concentrate on the substantive ones. There are a lot of consequential amendments, which make sure that the substantive amendments go through so that the Bill makes sense. I note that, having considered 692 amendments in your Lordships’ House, we are now considering a further 286; 978 amendments later, we should be in a better place.

Motion agreed.

Moved by

[Lord Ashton of Hyde]

That this House do agree with the Commons in their Amendment 29.

29: Clause 51, page 31, line 2, leave out from first “the” to end of line 3 and insert “restriction imposed by the controller was lawful;”

--- Later in debate ---

Moved by

[Lord Ashton of Hyde]

That this House do agree with the Commons in their Amendments 30 to 50.

30: Clause 51, page 31, line 11, leave out from first “the” to end of line 12 and insert “restriction imposed by the controller was lawful;”

--- Later in debate ---

Moved by

[Lord Ashton of Hyde]

That this House agrees with the Commons in their Amendments 51 and 52.

51: Clause 119, page 65, line 29, at end insert—
“( ) Paragraphs (b) and (c) of section 3(14) do not apply to references in this section to personal data, the processing of personal data, a controller or a processor.”

52: Clause 120, page 66, line 21, at end insert—
“( ) Section 3(14)(b) does not apply to references to personal data and the processing of personal data in this section.”

[Lord Ashton of Hyde]

My Lords, this group of Commons amendments relates primarily to the enforcement powers available to the Information Commissioner. This is one area where, after the Bill originally left your Lordships’ House, events have influenced the Government’s thinking.

The Information Commissioner’s investigation into Cambridge Analytica is unprecedented in both its scale and its complexity. It has, necessarily, pushed the boundaries of what the drafters of the Data Protection Act 1998, and the parliamentarians who scrutinised it, could envisage.

While recognising that the Bill already expands and enhances the commissioner’s ability to enforce the requirements of the data protection legislation in such circumstances, the Government undertook to consider whether further provision was desirable in light of the commissioner’s recent experience. Following extensive conversations with the commissioner and others, we concluded that such provision was indeed desirable. The amendments made in the other place would strengthen the commissioner’s ability to enforce the law while ensuring that she operates within a clear and accountable structure. I want to give five examples in particular.

First, Commons Amendment 64 would allow the commissioner to require any person who might have knowledge of suspected breaches of the data protection legislation to provide information. Previously, information could be sought only from a data controller or data processor. This could be important where, for example, a former employee had information about the organisation’s processing activities or if an organisation had gone into administration.

Secondly, Commons Amendment 70 would allow the commissioner to apply to the court for an order to force compliance where a person failed to comply with a requirement to provide information. Organisations that might previously have been tempted to pay a fine for non-compliance instead of handing over the information will now find themselves at risk of being in contempt of court if they do not comply.

Thirdly, Commons Amendments 67 and 87 would allow the commissioner to require controllers to comply with information or enforcement notices within 24 hours in some very urgent cases, rather than the seven days the current law provides for. Amendment 79 would allow the commissioner in certain circumstances to issue an assessment notice that can have immediate effect. The amendments would allow the commissioner to obtain information about a suspected breach or put a stop to high-risk processing activities promptly and effectively. They will also allow her to carry out no-notice inspections without a warrant in certain circumstances.

Fourthly, Commons Amendment 81 criminalises the behaviour of any person who seeks to frustrate an information or assessment notice by deliberately destroying, falsifying, blocking or concealing evidence which has been identified as being relevant to the commissioner’s investigation.

Finally, we have also taken this opportunity to modernise the commissioner’s powers. Storing files on an office PC is rapidly becoming a thing of the past. Commons Amendment 210 would enable the commissioner to apply for a warrant to access material which can be viewed via computers on the premises but which is actually held elsewhere, such as in the cloud.

--- Later in debate ---

[Lord Pannick (CB)]

Building on the point about the limited time for scrutiny here, can the Minister also explain whether there is a protection for the sources of journalism, with no obligation to disclose sources? Is there a protection for legal professional privilege and matters of that sort?

[Lord Ashton of Hyde]

I am grateful for the contributions made by noble Lords. The first thing to acknowledge is that these amendments were made at a reasonably late stage in the Bill but not a very late stage, in the sense that it was in the second House. We considered the Bill first and the second House amended the Information Commissioner’s powers, so we are now looking at them again. However, I can confirm to the noble Lord, Lord Stevenson, that the Information Commissioner was involved in these powers. That is not to say that, in the course of those discussions, she did not put up some powers that she might like to have but, in discussion with the Government, we settled on some powers that she was content with. I can confirm that she is content with this suite of powers; in fact, she has written to the Minister for Digital confirming as such.

The noble Lord, Lord Clement-Jones, mentioned a dawn raid and asked whether we can do that and, further, whether these powers are on all fours with the Competition and Markets Authority and Ofcom. By and large the powers are on all fours but, as the noble Lord, Lord Stevenson, said, they are not exactly the same. They were modelled on them but they are slightly different, given the different roles and functions that regulators have. As for a dawn raid, the Information Commissioner has the power to ask for a warrant to be issued without notice if the judge is satisfied that giving the controller advance notice would not be appropriate. As I say, we looked closely at the powers of the CMA and Ofcom and modelled them as closely as possible.

The noble Lord, Lord Pannick, asked about protection for journalists’ sources. I can confirm that, yes, the new ICO powers continue to respect the need to protect journalistic sources and legal professional privilege.

The noble Lord, Lord Stevenson, also talked about the Information Commissioner’s resources. As he knows, we have increased the fees and made a commitment in the past that we will make sure that the Information Commissioner has the resources available to do her job properly. We understand the issues that that involves. We need the Information Commissioner to do a proper job and to be able to do so, not least because of the Brexit negotiations and the data adequacy requirements that we will want to continue for electronic commerce.

I think I have dealt with the points raised and, on that basis, I thank noble Lords for their support for these powers.

Motion on Amendments 51 and 52 agreed.

Moved by

[Lord Ashton of Hyde]

That this House do agree with the Commons in their Amendment 53.

53: Clause 121, leave out Clause 121

[Lord Ashton of Hyde]

My Lords, Commons Amendments 53 and 207 would remove from the Bill matters inserted by the noble Lord, Lord Mitchell, with the intention of protecting value in certain personal data held by the state. I am grateful to the noble Lord for again taking the time to come to see me to discuss further the intention of his original amendments to the Bill. He has been very helpful and we are in full agreement that this is an important matter. Our meeting also gave me the opportunity to explain the Government’s plans to address the issues that he raised going forward.

In this new digital information age, big data is changing the world we live in. One of the key reasons for updating our data protection laws was to ensure that the law is fit for this new age, where an ever increasing amount of personal data is being processed. We have remained conscious throughout the drafting of the Bill of the need to protect individuals’ data while also ensuring that the new law does not stifle innovation in the way that we use personal data. The Government recognise that novel ways of processing personal data could bring great technological, economic and societal benefits to the UK.

Longitudinal health and care data, in particular, has the power to fundamentally transform our lives in truly positive ways. The Government are taking a considered approach to the policy in this area in order to ensure that we get this right and fully realise the potential benefits of using health data, while ensuring that individual privacy is respected. We want to examine how we can maximise the value of the data for the benefit of the NHS and those who use and pay for it.

While we are entirely sympathetic to the aim of the noble Lord’s amendments, Commons Amendments 53 and 207 would reverse them because we firmly believe they do not help us achieve the outcome we are all seeking. A statutory code of practice risks stifling innovation, placing public authorities in a straitjacket. In an area where the thinking is still developing and the rate of technological advancement is increasing, flexibility is essential.

Moreover, maintaining a register of “data of national significance” is likely to raise a number of security concerns. The NHS has been the victim of cyberattacks and we do not want to produce a road map to assist those who want to harm us. The Information Commissioner’s Office has also stated, quite rightly,

“that even establishing and maintaining a register would still require the Commissioner to make decisions in an area where she is not best placed to advise”,

because her core function is to protect information rights.

While not developing a code and a register, the Government are none the less taking active steps to ensure we grip the issue that the noble Lord raises. We are working to connect to make the most of the distributed data that exists in the health service, identifying three to five local exemplars of integrated digital health and care records and using these to develop digital innovation hubs to support the use of data for research purposes, including in partnership with industry.

The Department of Health and Social Care is working to explore how to maximise the benefits of health and care data for patients and taxpayers. This includes exploring the different approaches taken by a range of bodies and lessons to be learned from local experiences of working with the private sector. It will look specifically at how best to capture value from products developed using NHS data.

Although Commons Amendments 53 and 207 may appear disappointing to the noble Lord, I can reassure the House that they are made with the best intentions, and that the Government are making every effort to address the concern in the right way. I beg to move.

Amendment 53A (as an amendment to the Motion on Amendment 53)

Moved by

--- Later in debate ---

[Lord Ashton of Hyde]

My Lords, I feel a lot of sympathy for the noble Lord, Lord Mitchell, and commend what he is trying to do. I think that I shall be able to reassure the noble Lord, Lord Clement-Jones, that we are not as far apart as he might think. The noble Lord, Lord Mitchell, raised with great enthusiasm the point that we should ensure as a country that we use our rich resources wisely. We share his excitement about the huge potential of big data to improve health and care. We acknowledge that, if we leverage these data to their full potential, that will have huge positive impact in improving care, giving people greater control, enabling the system to plan better and target support and treatments to those who can benefit, and it will transform our already world-leading life sciences industry.

Nevertheless, in the judgment not just of the DCMS but also the Department of Health and Social Care—I know that the noble Lord has been speaking to my noble friend Lord O’Shaughnessy, on this subject—Amendment 53B risks undermining the work already being done in this space. NHS England, the Department of Health and Social Care and the Office for Life Sciences are already undertaking a programme of work that looks seriously at the public benefits that can be derived from NHS data. They are committed to working with representatives of the public and industry to explore how to maximise the benefits of health and care data for patients and taxpayers. In doing so, it is vital that service users and patients are involved every step of the way. They will accept and support the use of their health data only if they understand how and why their information is being used and how everyone will benefit. We must take the public with us on this journey, rather than imposing a code now.

My noble friend Lord O’Shaughnessy and his ministerial colleagues at the Department of Health and Social Care have made a written commitment to keeping the noble Lord, Lord Mitchell, involved in future discussions about this work. He will make a valuable contribution with his expertise in this matter, ensuring that we maximise the value in these datasets.

I want to answer straightaway and head-on the point about why the Government should not consider that we extract the full value of the taxpayers’ data. Of course, it is absolutely right that public sector bodies should be aware of the value of the data that they hold, but that value can be extracted in many ways, not solely through monetary means. For example, sharing health data with other companies that analyse that data may lead to a deeper understanding of diseases and potentially even to new cures. That is why we want to take some time to explore this important issue fully and try to find the most appropriate solution, should one be needed, rather than tying ourselves to one approach now. That was raised in the other place when this issue was discussed by amendments from people who are very concerned about how health data are being treated. As I said before, we have to be very careful, particularly when talking about health data, how we use datasets when people have given their information on the basis that it is anonymous and is extremely sensitive.

The noble Lord, Lord Freyberg, rightly broadened the issue a bit from just health data. He asked how much data we are commercialising, at home and abroad, and to whom. He suggested that bodies other than central government should take charge of a process for measuring and tracking these flows of significant data. The noble Lord, Lord Clement-Jones, mentioned the Centre for Data Ethics and Innovation. A body exactly such as that can, in this very fast-moving area, consider the balance between the need to protect an individual’s anonymity and the sensitivity of their data, and that data’s monetary value and use for things such as curing disease.

The noble Baroness, Lady Jones, made some interesting remarks about how information would be abused by the Government and the broad powers we have taken in the Bill. I remind her that the GDPR, which takes effect directly on 25 May, is exactly about protecting data subjects’ rights. For example, it allows data subjects the rights of rectification and erasure. The point about subject access rights is to allow individuals to have more protection than they currently do. The Bill brings some of those rights and extends them into areas which are not even covered by EU competence. I do not agree with the noble Baroness that we are abusing the powers.

[Lord Framlingham (Con)]

I apologise for interrupting the Minister. I have not been in the House long, so have not heard the whole debate, but I was listening to a programme about this subject at lunchtime today. The impression was clearly given that lives were being put at risk because of oversensitivity about the sharing of data. Perhaps the Minister will get his advisers to check what was said on that programme and see how much sense it made.

[Lord Ashton of Hyde]

I will find out what was said. We should deal with what the GDPR calls special categories of data very sensitively. We should take data on health, sexual orientation, ethnicity and things like that very seriously. That is what the GDPR does and we will continue to do it under the Bill.

Finally, I return to the Commons amendments. I am afraid we still cannot support Amendments 53A and 53B as, at the moment, we believe that they are fundamentally the wrong solution. However, I hope that the productive discussions, to which the noble Lord, Lord Mitchell, referred, along with what I have said today, have convinced the noble Lord that our vision is aligned and that he finds sufficient reassurance in these words, and the written assurances that he has had from my noble friend Lord O’Shaughnessy, to be able to withdraw his amendment.

[Lord Mitchell]

I thank the noble Lord for his very helpful comments. I also thank my noble friend Lord Freyberg, who has been with me all the way on this and given me huge support, and the noble Baroness, Lady Jones, for her comments. On the Front Benches, the noble Lord, Lord Clement-Jones, has always been a supporter and, at this particular point, the noble Lord, Lord Stevenson, has guided me through the intricacies of ping-pong, which I was not aware of.

I have heard what the Minister has said, and have received a letter from the noble Lord, Lord O’Shaughnessy. It is the end of the football season. We are now in extra time; we are still at a draw and could be facing penalty shoot-outs, but I am going to decline that. I beg leave to withdraw the amendment.

--- Later in debate ---

Moved by

[Lord Ashton of Hyde]

That this House do agree with the Commons in their Amendment 54.

54: Clause 124, page 68, line 24, leave out “with the day on which” and insert “when”

--- Later in debate ---

Moved by

[Lord Ashton of Hyde]

That this House do agree with the Commons in their Amendments 56 to 61.

56: Clause 125, page 69, line 2, leave out “or 124” and insert “, 124 or (Data protection and journalism code)”

--- Later in debate ---

Moved by

[Lord Ashton of Hyde]

That this House do agree with the Commons in their Amendment 62.

62: Clause 142, leave out Clause 142

--- Later in debate ---

Moved by

[Lord Ashton of Hyde]

That this House do agree with the Commons in their Amendments 63 to 114.

63: Clause 143, page 77, line 37, after “notice”)” insert “— (a) ”

--- Later in debate ---

Moved by

[Lord Ashton of Hyde]

That this House do agree with the Commons in their Amendment 115.

115: Clause 183, page 105, line 42, leave out “80” and insert “80(1)”

[Lord Ashton of Hyde]

My Lords, the main amendments in this group relate to the representation of data subjects by not-for-profit bodies. Last time we discussed this matter, the question before us was whether those bodies should have to seek the mandate—that is, the consent—of data subjects before pursuing claims on their behalf.

As I said then,

“the Government have reflected on the principles at stake here and agree it would be reasonable for a review to be undertaken, two years after Royal Assent, of the effectiveness of”—

Clause 183—

“as it is currently drafted. The Government are fully prepared to look again at the issue”,

of representation without prior mandate in the context of that review.

“We are serious about this. We will therefore amend the Bill in the other place to provide for such a review and to provide the power for the Government to implement its conclusions”.—[Official Report, 10/1/18; col. 287.]


Commons Amendments 122 and 123 duly deliver on that promise, while Commons Amendment 121 allows the Secretary of State to make regulations to ensure that, where a not-for-profit seeks to represent a large number of data subjects in court proceedings, it can file one claim and not hundreds.

I am grateful to the noble Baroness, Lady Kidron, for her continued engagement on this subject. She and I are in total agreement that children merit specific protection in relation to their personal data, and that the review should look accordingly at the specific barriers young people face in exercising their rights. Therefore, Commons Amendment 122 makes provision for that in subsections (4), (5) and (6) of the proposed new clause. Of course, as some noble Lords have mentioned previously, such provision is not to the exclusion of other vulnerable groups in our society, and the Government fully expect that review to consider their position, too.

Commons Amendment 126 would allow Her Majesty’s Revenue & Customs to share contact detail information with the Ministry of Defence to ensure that the Ministry of Defence is better able to locate and contact members of the ex-regular reserve. The amendment does not alter the liability for ex-regular reserves, nor does it affect the rules regarding the call-out or recall of ex-regular reserves; it is simply about being better able to contact them. The security of the United Kingdom is the primary responsibility of government. Commons Amendment 126 offers us the opportunity to strengthen that security.

Finally, Commons Amendment 282 would insert a schedule making transitional, transitory and saving provision in connection with the coming into force of the Bill, including provision about subject access requests, the Information Commissioner’s enforcement powers and national security certificates. This comprehensive new schedule, running to some 19 pages, is designed to ensure a seamless shift between the 1998 Act and the new data protection law we are scrutinising today. I beg to move.

[Baroness Kidron (CB)]

I thank the Government for listening, the Bill team, the Secretary of State and the Minister, Margot James. The point is that rights are only as good as one’s ability to enact them, so I really welcome the review and I thank all concerned for the very great care and detail with which they have laid it out in the Bill.

--- Later in debate ---

[Lord Ashton of Hyde]

My Lords, I am very grateful for the contribution of all noble Lords on this, especially the noble Baroness, Lady Kidron. It is very nice to be in her good books.

The noble Lord, Lord Clement Jones, talked about the age-appropriate design code and when the Information Commissioner will get going. As he rightly said, the Bill has not come into force yet; nevertheless, we understand that the Information Commissioner is already setting the wheels in motion for a comprehensive age-appropriate design code and will launch a call for evidence imminently. During that process she will be seeking evidence and views on the content of the code in line with the points raised in the debate in this House and elsewhere. So I confirm what he suggested was the case; indeed, work is already being done.

The noble Lord, Lord Stevenson, mentioned the focus of the code. In mentioning vulnerable people I was trying to bring him back to some of the points I think he made: I did not want anyone to get the impression that we were concentrating just on children—albeit they are very important—and their particular rights under the code. It will include vulnerable people, but also the way that it operates in general. Although children rightly have a special mention, we are also concerned with people who may have particular problems and may be vulnerable. I think this should exactly satisfy some of the things the noble Lord mentioned in previous debates.

As for the Ministry of Defence, it does try to keep in touch. In fact, it is a duty of an ex-regular reservist to keep the MoD in touch with their whereabouts. Some 49%, I believe, do not do so: we want to use this information to keep in touch with the reserve for the security of the country and that is why we are doing this. I also point out that there are protections: the commissioners of the Inland Revenue have to give permission before information is disclosed to anyone else or elsewhere.

Motion on Amendment 115 agreed.

Moved by

[Lord Ashton of Hyde]

That this House do agree with the Commons in their Amendments 116 to 152.

116: Clause 183, page 105, line 44, leave out “certain rights” and insert “the data subject’s rights under Articles 77, 78 and 79 of the GDPR (rights to lodge complaints and to an effective judicial remedy)”

--- Later in debate ---

Moved by

[Lord Ashton of Hyde]

That this House do agree with the Commons in their Amendment 153.

153: Schedule 1, page 123, line 21, at beginning insert “Except as otherwise provided,”

[Lord Ashton of Hyde]

My Lords, this group of amendments covers issues that will be familiar to many noble Lords, as it primarily addresses concerns and issues raised in this House last autumn. The Government have remained committed to listening and to improving the Bill. I owe thanks to many noble Lords who brought these issues to our attention.

Commons Amendment 155 would help businesses and other organisations ensure that their boardrooms and senior management levels are truly representative of the workforces they manage and the communities they serve. In November 2016, Sir John Parker published a report which showed that while 14% of the population identified as black, Asian or minority ethnic, only 1.5% of directors in FTSE 100 boardrooms are UK citizens from a minority background. More than half of the FTSE 100 boards are exclusively white. While significant progress has been made in recent years to improve the gender balance in the boardrooms of such companies, the severe underrepresentation of people from minority backgrounds needs to be addressed.

Sir John’s report included a series of recommendations to improve racial and ethnic diversity in the boardroom. He encouraged companies to make better use of executive search firms to identify potential candidates and invite them to be interviewed for managerial vacancies. This amendment would therefore add a new processing condition to Schedule 1 to allow organisations to process personal data about potential candidates’ racial or ethnic origin in identifying suitable candidates for potential managerial positions.

Previously when we discussed the Bill in this House, Thomson Reuters provided a very helpful briefing note setting out how it compiles reports on persons suspected of terrorism, bribery, money laundering, modern slavery and other illegal activities. It then shares this information with the banks to help them avoid engaging with such people and allow them to comply with their regulatory obligations and other internationally recognised guidelines. In response to support for the proposal on all sides, the Government committed to work with Thomson Reuters to bring forward amendments at a later stage of the Bill’s passage. Commons Amendment 158 is the culmination of this work.

I am also pleased to introduce Commons Amendment 160, which would provide for processing by patient support groups, a concern well put by my noble friend Lady Neville-Jones. She spoke movingly on behalf of the patient support group Unique, which manages a register of patients suffering from very rare and sometimes life-limiting chromosomal disorders. Amendment 160 would add a new processing condition to Schedule 1 to provide Unique and groups like it with the legal certainty required for their vital work to continue. I am most grateful to her for her advocacy.

Commons Amendments 162 and 163 relate to data processing for safeguarding purposes. These amendments respond to one tabled on the same issue by the noble Lord, Lord Stevenson, on Report in December. In response to that amendment, I made it clear that the Government were sympathetic to the points raised. These amendments would ensure that sensitive data could be processed without consent in certain circumstances for legitimate safeguarding activities which are in the substantial public interest. The unfortunate reality is that there still exists a great deal of uncertainty under current law about which personal data can be processed for safeguarding purposes. This has resulted, for example, in some organisations withholding information from the police and other law enforcement agencies for fear of breaching data protection law. With these amendments, the Government intend to address this uncertainty by providing relevant organisations with a specific processing condition for processing the most sensitive personal data for safeguarding purposes.

Similarly, a number of other amendments in this group would extend necessary exemptions to certain regulators to ensure that data subjects cannot use data protection laws to undermine their regulatory work. Commons Amendment 178 would provide the Comptroller and Auditor-General of the United Kingdom, and his counterpart in each of the devolved nations, with an exemption from certain provisions of the GDPR where these would be likely to prejudice his statutory functions. Likewise, Amendment 179 would provide an exemption for the Bank of England from the listed GDPR provisions where these could inhibit its ability to exercise its functions. Amendment 183 would provide an exemption for the Scottish Information Commissioner, who regulates freedom of information rather than data protection. Amendment 185 would protect the work of the Financial Conduct Authority and the Prudential Regulation Authority. Amendment 186 would extend the exemptions in Schedule 2 to the Charity Commission’s functions under the Charities Acts of 1992, 2006 and 2011.

The remaining amendments in this group would address more technical issues, ensuring consistency across the Bill. I beg to move.

[Baroness Neville-Jones (Con)]

My Lords, I thank my noble friend the Minister for the Government having carried these provisions in the Commons. More importantly, the patient support groups for which I spoke are very gratified because they regard these amendments as absolutely vital to their ability to carry on their important work. If I might say so, it is a very satisfactory outcome.

--- Later in debate ---

[Lord Ashton of Hyde]

My Lords, I am grateful for all those comments. It is nice that in the last group I will handle on it—touch wood—I leave the Bill in a glow of good will. I am particularly pleased that I can agree with the noble Lord, Lord McNally, and that we have been able to respond to some of the concerns and points raised in this House. In many ways, the Bill has been an object lesson of discussion on a very technical Bill. We have made progress. I certainly acknowledge and am very grateful for the support and co-operation I have had from both opposition Front Benches.

[Lord McNally]

As a little footnote, which might give encouragement to others, I first raised the Thomson Reuters matter because it sponsored a conference at the Guildhall well over a year ago about the coming of the GDPR. I went along to find out about it. I and the other Benches raised this from that. It has now ended up in the Bill. It is an encouragement to companies that sometimes think that legislation is a mysterious place that, by taking little bit of effort to put the case and extend it, they can have real influence.

[Lord Ashton of Hyde]

I am grateful to the noble Lord. That brings me nicely to the point made by the noble Lord, Lord Pannick, about arbitrators. The noble Lords, Lord Clement-Jones and Lord Stevenson, mentioned the importance of arbitration to the economy of this country. I am only too well aware of it from my background in insurance. London has a very well-respected legal system, but the arbitration system is linked to that. We certainly would not wish in any way to hinder it. Contrary to what the noble Lord, Lord McNally, did, the people who brought this up seemed to do so at the last minute. I slightly wonder how they managed to miss this trick, if it is so obvious, for the two years that the GDPR has been in place, let alone—

[Lord Pannick]

Could I suggest to the noble Lord that they were too busy arbitrating?

[Lord Ashton of Hyde]

They should have hired a lawyer. The point is that it is a perfectly valid point. We have sought to replicate in the Bill, as far as possible, the existing provisions relating to legal professional privilege. We had several discussions about that in the 1998 Act, including the relevant exemptions to rights and obligations for personal data. I cannot help but notice that the Arbitration and Mediation Service, given that we are trying to replicate as far as possible existing provisions, appears to have been operating without undue burden for the last 20 years, but I am certainly prepared to undertake to the noble Lord, Lord Pannick, that we will look at that with a view to making sure that this is not a serious problem. We certainly have not been able to do it in time. I can confirm to him that, if there is a problem, the Bill contains regulation-making powers to address this concern. The only thing I can say on that is that, quite rightly, those regulations would have to come before both Houses of Parliament. If there is a concern he will be able to address it later.

The noble Lord, Lord Stevenson, is quite correct that we talked about me making a statement or addressing concerns about the individual application of the GDPR and the Bill to Peers. I assumed I would do so if it was necessary and if the subject came up, which, luckily, it has not. Just to be clear, it is not just that Peers and other citizens of this country are suffering under the GDPR, although they might have obligations that they were not aware of before and, I agree, certain extra ones because the GDPR has direct effect; it also greatly increases individual subject rights. It makes sure that individuals’ personal data, in particular sensitive personal data, is better protected in law and by a regulator, who, thanks to your Lordships’ agreement, has real power to make sure that the data regime is obeyed. I believe that the House authorities have issued a statement to all Peers. Of course, my department is there to address this. The first avenue that Peers should use for the individual circumstances is the House authorities.

[Baroness Neville-Rolfe (Con)]

Can I press my noble friend a little further on the issue of what individual Peers and Members of Parliament should do? There was an earlier discussion on whether some arrangements might be made so that data protection rules can be followed but the burden would not be unreasonable. I also take this opportunity to thank my noble friend for these many amendments which are grouped together, on diversity through to financial services. It has been a model of good working.

[Lord Ashton of Hyde]

I am grateful for that. When my noble friend spoke of pushing me further, I am not completely clear what she wants me to do. It is not right for me to opine on individual cases. I think we are talking about Peers in their roles as Peers. Each individual Peer has to discuss that in the light of their individual circumstances. All I would say is that if noble Lords are dealing with special categories of data and personal data, they will have to be aware of the obligations put on them by the Bill and the GDPR. The House authorities are there to advise, as is the Information Commissioner. They will have to do so. In my case, for example, I do not anticipate that in what I do as a Peer, as opposed to a Minister, I would have to pay a fee as a controller, if that helps.

Motion agreed.

Moved by

[Lord Ashton of Hyde]

That this House do agree with the Commons in their Amendments 154 to 173.

154: Schedule 1, page 124, line 24, leave out from “subject” to end of line 25

--- Later in debate ---

Moved by

[Lord Ashton of Hyde]

That this House do agree with the Commons in their Amendment 175.

175: Schedule 2, page 137, line 11, at end insert “and, subject to sub-paragraph (2)(vii) of this paragraph, the provisions of Article 5 listed in paragraph 1(b).)”

--- Later in debate ---

Moved by

[Lord Ashton of Hyde]

That this House do agree with the Commons in their Amendments 176 to 282.

176: Schedule 2, page 138, line 15, at end insert—
“( ) Article 19 (notification obligation regarding rectification or erasure of personal data or restriction of processing);”

Brexit: Digital Single Market

Lord Ashton of Hyde Excerpts

Tuesday 8th May 2018 Lords Chamber

[Lord Clement-Jones]

To ask Her Majesty's Government what assessment they have made of the United Kingdom’s ability to take advantage of the Digital Single Market and of country of origin principles for e-commerce once the United Kingdom leaves the European Union.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department for Digital, Culture, Media and Sport (Lord Ashton of Hyde) (Con)]

My Lords, I am delighted to see that, by including the phrase,

“once the United Kingdom leaves the European Union”,

in his carefully prepared Question, the noble Lord has confirmed from the Liberal Democrat Front Bench that we will be leaving the EU. The UK will not be part of the digital single market once we leave the EU. We are undertaking a comprehensive programme of analytical work looking at the implications of the UK’s exit from the EU. We are seeking input from a wide range of businesses, civil society groups and consumer bodies to inform our future trading agreement negotiations with the EU. This includes e-commerce.

[Lord Clement-Jones (LD)]

My Lords, recent CEBR estimates put the value of our digital exports in the creative industries alone at £21 billion, yet as the Minister has confirmed and the Prime Minister stated at the Mansion House on 2 March—indeed, the noble Lord, Lord Callanan, repeated it last week—

“the UK will not be part of the EU’s Digital Single Market”.

The Prime Minister went on to say:

“This is a fast evolving, innovative sector, in which the UK is a world leader. So it will be particularly important to have domestic flexibility, to ensure the regulatory environment can always respond nimbly and ambitiously to new developments”.


How on earth will that protect those digital exports? Or is this just another example of the Government whistling in the dark?

[Lord Ashton of Hyde]

My Lords, I completely agree with the noble Lord that the creative industries and digital are a very important part of our economy. We are the leaders in Europe—7.9% of our GDP is digital, with the next biggest, I think, being France, at 3.9%. We acknowledge that this has to be part of the wider negotiations on the single market. We are undertaking a great deal of analysis to make sure that we understand the implications of those negotiations.

[Lord Griffiths of Burry Port (Lab)]

My Lords, analysis, study, the eventual bringing to our attention of possible ways forward—is the Minister able to help us in a shorter term than that, given that nearly two years have passed since all this began? I know that he will use the word “shortly” or “soon”, but can he give us an idea of when we will have a fix on this? The greatest part of our trade is led by our activities in this sphere. All the talk is about trade, yet this issue has the potential to damage a significant part of our trading arrangements. Has not enough advice been given by the House of Commons DCMS Committee in its recent report? Urgency is what we seem to be lacking.

[Lord Ashton of Hyde]

I have to disagree with the noble Lord: urgency is not lacking, and considerable work is going on. Clearly, when we are about to undertake some of the most important negotiations that we have had for decades, we would not want to outline exactly what our negotiating position was before we did it. We absolutely take on board what the noble Lord and the noble Lord, Lord Clement-Jones, have said and understand the importance of the digital area. That will take place within the broader single market negotiations.

[Lord Watts (Lab)]

My Lords, the digital industry is very important to the British economy. What options are the Government considering to deal with this problem? Can they spell them out?

[Lord Ashton of Hyde]

I think it would be mad to spell them out before we even start the negotiations.

[Lord Addington (LD)]

My Lords, to go from the macro to the micro, if we leave the EU, might we not be susceptible, as individuals, to roaming charges when we go to Europe? Is not the addition of, say, up to several hundred pounds on the phone bill of everyone who visits Europe something that might lead us to put on the line some compromise of our position regarding our new independence?

[Lord Ashton of Hyde]

The noble Lord is right that roaming charges are one of the main areas that we have to look at as part of the negotiations that particularly affect DCMS. That is absolutely on our radar and we understand the implications both ways. We understand that it is a fairly recent innovation not to have roaming charges within the EU: we completely understand that and it will form part of the negotiations.

[Baroness Neville-Rolfe (Con)]

My Lords, I agree about the importance of the creative industries and I am sure they will continue to be creative as we go forward beyond Brexit, but I want to ask my noble friend a question about portability. This is the ability to take your television programmes abroad digitally when, for example, you go on holiday in the Mediterranean, so that you are able to watch “Coronation Street”, “EastEnders” or whatever is your particular delight. Can my noble friend give me an update on whether that will still be possible?

[Lord Ashton of Hyde]

I am not absolutely clear whether that will still be possible. I do not think it is the highest on our list of priorities. However, I will certainly take it back to my department and get my noble friend a clear and concise answer.

[Viscount Waverley (CB)]

My Lords, by chance I called on a UK tech association last week and the message I received was that the industry is in the doldrums—that is my word. I think the inference was that it is depressed—that since whenever this exercise started, there has been a depression in the industry generally. Does the Minister wish to say how we can reinject a sense of optimism into the sector, to give the heads of these trade associations the view that we are, indeed, heading in the right direction?

--- Later in debate ---

[Lord Ashton of Hyde]

I can absolutely dispel the noble Viscount’s gloom: the tech industry is not in the doldrums; in fact, quite the reverse. The creative industries, including tech industries, are growing at twice the rate of the economy. I hope the noble Viscount is reassured by that.

[Lord Haskel (Lab)]

My Lords, digital is an important part of the Government’s industrial strategy. So when will they initiate their industrial strategy council, whose job it is to chivvy the Government and get them to take action on this sort of thing?

[Lord Ashton of Hyde]

I am not quite sure which council the noble Lord is talking about, but as part of the industrial strategy, as he knows, we are launching sector deals, and I am pleased to say that the artificial intelligence sector deal was launched a week or two ago to great acclaim.

Gambling Advertising

Lord Ashton of Hyde Excerpts

Thursday 3rd May 2018 Lords Chamber

[The Lord Bishop of St Albans]

To ask Her Majesty’s Government what assessment they have made of the impact of levels of gambling advertising.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department for Digital, Culture, Media and Sport (Lord Ashton of Hyde) (Con)]

My Lords, a major survey of evidence in 2014 found that the impact of advertising on problem gambling was likely to be rather small, although further research was required. The Government sought further evidence on gambling advertising as part of our review of gaming machines and social responsibility measures. There are strict controls on the content of gambling advertising. It must not be targeted at children. The consultation outlined a package of measures to help strengthen existing protections and fill gaps in evidence. We will publish our response in due course.

[The Lord Bishop of St Albans]

My Lords, according to the Gambling Commission more than 300,000 children are gambling each week. That is more than the number who drink alcohol, smoke or take illicit drugs. Yet, despite this, we have unlimited adverts during sporting events and many more online and on social media. The number of gambling adverts aimed at children tripled between 2005 and 2012. Does the Minister agree that it is an unacceptable risk to expose our children to this barrage of advertising when we have no firm grasp of its impact? Will he step in and regulate?

[Lord Ashton of Hyde]

The right reverend Prelate’s phrase that we have no grasp on it is pertinent—as I said, the evidence is limited. We are looking for more evidence, as is GambleAware at the moment. The protections are strong. No advertising that targets children is allowed, and that applies online and offline. When we publish the response to the consultation, it will be one of the things that we outline, and noble Lords will be able to see what our response was. We are very aware of our lack of evidence. We want to concentrate on protections for the vulnerable, particularly children.

[Lord Forsyth of Drumlean (Con)]

My Lords, when I was in the Home Office some 25 years ago and responsible for gambling legislation, the rule was that it was not allowed to do anything that would stimulate demand. That included a 48-hour rule for casinos, and there was no advertising. We had a perfectly healthy gambling industry. Since then, we have seen a huge increase in problem gambling and all the difficulties that the right reverend Prelate outlined. Why can we not go back to having a rule that we do not allow stimulation of demand?

[Lord Ashton of Hyde]

It is interesting that my noble friend says that there has been a huge increase. In fact, problem gambling has remained stable over time. We have limited the amount that can be put in advertising. We had a review in 2014 and protections were strengthened. We consulted on extra measures in our gambling review, the results of which will be published shortly. We understand the issues. We want to have gambling effectively regulated on a voluntary basis—which, incidentally, is much more flexible to deal with changes such as online gambling than a statutory basis.

[Lord Foster of Bath (LD)]

My Lords, notwithstanding the limited evidence, does not common sense tell us that increased gambling advertising is intended to increase the number of people gambling and therefore the likelihood of more people having gambling problems? Does the Minister accept that the time has now come for a compulsory levy to support research, education and treatment in relation to gambling problems rather than the current voluntary levy? Does he not find it odd that nearly 10 times more money is raised to support racehorses through the compulsory betting levy than is raised to support people through the voluntary levy?

[Lord Ashton of Hyde]

The important thing is what is effective. I know that many people have strong opinions on gambling, as they do on smoking and alcohol. The fact is that the evidence does not support some of the claims made. The Binde report said that the impact of advertising on problem gambling rates is likely to be,

“neither negligible nor considerable, but rather relatively small”.

On the noble Lord’s point regarding a compulsory levy, we have said many times that if the gambling industry does not provide the requisite amount to support measures to deal with problem gambling, we will consider a mandatory levy.

[Lord Griffiths of Burry Port (Lab)]

It appears to many of us incredible that there should be reported to be relatively undisquieting developments in the field of gambling—certainly, the noble Lord, Lord Forsyth, has hinted at that. Are the Government aware of and disturbed by moves towards what is called the normalisation of gambling or, as the Committee of Advertising Practice put it, the “trivialisation” of gambling? Is not the movement of gambling towards being like the air we breathe a worrying thing that might lie beyond the ability of statisticians to quantify? Will the Government look urgently and proactively for such evidence rather than waiting for the results of a consultation?

[Lord Ashton of Hyde]

Yes, absolutely. We are looking proactively. We issued a call for evidence; the consultation hinted at areas where there was a lack of evidence. I believe that GambleAware will produce more evidence later this year. We of course accept that there are issues to do with protecting vulnerable people and children. That is why these matters have been addressed in the consultation, and our response will follow in due course.

[Baroness Bloomfield of Hinton Waldrist (Con)]

My Lords, I am not sure that the research methodology has kept up with the development of social media. Can my noble friend the Minister reassure the House that attention is being given also to computer games aimed at children, which are designed specifically to instil the same addictive thrill that may lead to gambling habits?

[Lord Ashton of Hyde]

Yes, my Lords; I know concerns have been raised about gambling-style games or gambling games that use cartoon imagery, for example, because they may appeal to children. Last October, the Gambling Commission together with the ASA, the Committee of Advertising Practice and the Remote Gambling Association took steps to make sure that online gambling companies remove advertising from websites and third-party media likely to appeal to people aged under 18. I emphasise again that that is one area where the current code, a voluntary but effective form of regulation, allows things to move quickly without relying on legislative time.

Creative Industries: Skills Shortage

Lord Ashton of Hyde Excerpts

Wednesday 2nd May 2018 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Bonham-Carter of Yarnbury]

To ask Her Majesty’s Government how their Creative Industries Sector Deal, announced on 28 March, will address the skills shortages in those industries.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department for Digital, Culture, Media and Sport (Lord Ashton of Hyde) (Con)]

My Lords, the creative industries sector deal committed over £150 million of government and industry funding to unlock growth in the UK’s world-leading creative businesses and address the current and future skills needs of the creative industries. As part of this, government will fund the skills package, featuring an industry-led creative careers programme—reaching 2,000 schools and 600,000 pupils—and support for apprenticeship standards. Industry will expand its voluntary skills investment fund and work with governments to ensure high-quality work placements for students. Additionally, the BFI is rolling out its £20 million future film skills programme to tackle skills shortages in the film industry.

[Baroness Bonham-Carter of Yarnbury (LD)]

I thank the Minister both for his response and for the Government’s recognition in the sector deal of the importance of the creative industries. The Minister clearly understands that skills are the lifeblood of any industry. Does he agree that the demise of the teaching and take-up of creative subjects in schools and further education is very worrying? Will he encourage his colleagues in the Department for Education to promote STEAM, not STEM, and explain to them that the creative industries are powered by creative subjects? What we need is that old request: joined-up government.

[Lord Ashton of Hyde]

My Lords, no one is suggesting that STEM subjects are the only ones that matter. Indeed, I completely take the noble Baroness’s point that the arts are very important, especially for the creative industries. We expect a broad and balanced curriculum to be provided for schools. I am informed by the Department for Education that there is no evidence that a greater emphasis on STEM subjects has had a direct impact on the take-up of the arts in schools. Between 2010 and 2017, the proportion of pupils in state-funded schools taking at least one arts subject remained broadly stable and the percentage of time spent by secondary school teachers on teaching music, art, design and drama has also not changed significantly. However—to give the noble Baroness some comfort—the Secretary of State recently met the Secretary of State for Education to discuss this, and another junior Minister in my department met another junior Minister in the Department for Education on 27 April. Joined-up government is going on, and we are well aware of the sector’s views on this subject.

[Lord Grade of Yarmouth (Con)]

My Lords, I am delighted to hear the support for the creative industries and the contribution they make to growth in the UK. The other considerable achievement of the creative industries is in social mobility. I cannot think of any greater engine for social mobility than them. The key to that is some of the world-leading establishments, such as RADA, the BRIT School in Croydon and the National Film and Television School. I would welcome hearing from the Minister that the Government recognise the importance of those and other institutions in feeding the creative industries and avoiding the skills shortage that may loom in 20 years’ time.

[Lord Ashton of Hyde]

It is important to make the point that the creative industries are a tremendous success story. We are not talking about a rescue package, if you like, in the sector deal. They are growing at twice the rate of the rest of the economy. As far as my noble friend’s points are concerned, of course we understand, as I said, the importance of the arts. That is why, for example, the Department for Education announced £96 million of funding to give talented pupils the opportunity to attend top music, drama and dance schools. That takes government funding for music and creative arts programmes to almost £500 million. In fact, it is the second-highest amount of funding for a sector by the Department for Education after PE.

[Lord Winston (Lab)]

My Lords, in my capacity as champion of outreach at Imperial College, I go to a phenomenal number of schools around England and sometimes to Wales. What I find is that a huge number of students are not able to do, for example, an arts A-level with a science A-level because there is insufficient money in the system for schools to provide that, yet that is what gives them a compass in science to see how valuable it is in practice in wider society. Could the Minister recommend that to the department—it seems an important issue—to see whether we could not fund it rather better in future?

[Lord Ashton of Hyde]

My Lords, this is the third question that should be given to the Department for Education, but I completely understand the noble Lord’s point. What I have said is that we do not think that there should be a limited amount for, for example, STEM subjects, important though they are. We understand the basis of a broad-based curriculum. As I indicated, in DCMS we are talking to Department for Education Ministers. We represent the views of our sector, which is very vociferous on these subjects. We understand them and are taking a lot of effort to do so, and are relaying them to the Department for Education.

[Viscount Colville of Culross (CB)]

My Lords, 47% of the workforce in the creative industries is self-employed, compared with 15% of the workforce as a whole. The creative sector deal declares that it wants to protect access to global talent. Could the Minister tell the House whether the Government plan to consult the industry on the introduction of a freelance visa to ensure that the most talented creatives can work in this country?

[Lord Ashton of Hyde]

We are only too well aware of the importance of foreign talent, who sometimes come to this country for relatively limited periods of time to work in the creative industries. The noble Viscount is absolutely right that a lot of the jobs in the creative industries are for a limited period. We are working with the Migration Advisory Committee to look at issues surrounding immigration. Again, as part of the joined-up government we referred to, we are talking to the Home Office to make sure the sector’s requirements are known.

[Lord Foster of Bath (LD)]

My Lords, there is much to welcome in the sector deal, but meeting the training skills for the anticipated 600,000 extra jobs means that the apprenticeship levy scheme must be fit for purpose for the creative industries. Is the Minister aware that the Skills Minister has already acknowledged that the scheme is causing particular concerns and problems within the sector, which wants greater flexibility? The sector deal promises simply to monitor the scheme. Your Lordships’ Communications Committee has asked for a comprehensive review. Will the Minister assure your Lordships’ House that we will get that comprehensive review?

[Lord Ashton of Hyde]

I believe that the Department for Education is looking at how the apprenticeship levy is working and bedding down. We understand that there are particular issues for the creative industries. That is why the sector deal includes support to help quickly develop 20 new apprenticeship standards. We will work with the Institute for Apprenticeships to prioritise those standards for the creative industries. I can confirm that, as part of the sector deal, an employer representative from the creative industries will sit on the Department for Education’s apprenticeship stakeholder board. I cannot commit the Department for Education, but it is certainly looking at the particular problems that pertain to the creative industries.