Oral Answers to Questions

Alan Campbell Excerpts

Thursday 27th November 2025 Commons Chamber

[Danny Kruger (East Wiltshire) (Reform)]

2. What guidance the Church Commissioners have received from the Charity Commission on changes proposed under the draft National Church Governance Measure.

[The Leader of the House of Commons (Sir Alan Campbell)]

I am sorry that the Second Church Estates Commissioner, my hon. Friend the Member for Battersea (Marsha De Cordova), is unwell; we wish her a swift recovery. She will be listening, and if my answers fall short, I am sure that she will follow up on them with Members.

In answer to the hon. Gentleman, the Measure is still with the Ecclesiastical Committee—he is a member of it—which is still to update the Church on its decision about the Measure. The national Church institutions have worked closely with the Charity Commission on the draft Measure, and have considered its comments carefully, particularly on the objects of the proposed new charity, Church of England National Services. The commission took a different view from the Church on the remuneration of the chair of CENS. However, amendments were made to the Measure in response to the commission’s concerns, to ensure that the power to remunerate a chair is exercised only when trustees believe it is necessary to do so, considering all relevant factors.

[Danny Kruger]

That was a very helpful answer, and I am grateful to the Leader of the House for it. The fact is, however, that the proposed new governance Measure that the Church is bringing forward substantially alters the charitable objects of the Church Commissioners, which is a body set up by this House to regulate the income of the Church. As he has explained, the Charity Commission differs with the Church Commissioners and the Church hierarchy on the proposed new body. My question is: to what extent does the Second Church Estates Commissioner regard it as necessary to secure the approval of the Charity Commission when Parliament is establishing a body that will have the power to alter its own constitution? A very substantial change is being introduced, and I want to know whether the Charity Commission has approved that, and whether the Church Commissioners think that it should approve that.

[Sir Alan Campbell]

It is unusual to be accused of giving helpful answers, but I will take that, and I thank the hon. Gentleman. I refer him to the answer I gave before, which is that the national Church institutions have worked closely with the Charity Commission on the draft Measure and have considered its comments carefully. However, I will take away his comments and draw them to the attention of my hon. Friend the Second Church Estates Commissioner.

The hon. Member for Blaenau Gwent and Rhymney, representing the House of Commons Commission, was asked—

--- Later in debate ---

[Steve Race (Exeter) (Lab)]

4. What discussions the Commissioners have had with the House of Bishops on the decision to move to a two-thirds majority requirement in Synod to progress the recommendations of “Living in Love and Faith”.

[The Leader of the House of Commons (Sir Alan Campbell)]

The House of Bishops has a special role in matters relating to doctrine, liturgy and sacrament, and the right to amend legislation before it is put before the General Synod for approval. There is no need for a two-thirds majority in order to progress all the requirements of “Living in Love and Faith”. The requirement for a two-thirds majority applies only when introducing permanent new services into the Church of England’s liturgy.

[Steve Race]

I thank the Leader of the House for that answer. I wonder whether the Second Church Estates Commissioner might make it clear to the House of Bishops and the new Archbishop of Canterbury, whom I welcome, that the Church of England is accountable to Parliament, and that going backwards on very modest moves to end discrimination against same-sex lay and clergy couples is unacceptable and not a sustainable position if the Church wishes to continue to enjoy the privileges of its established status.

[Sir Alan Campbell]

I will convey my hon. Friend’s views to the House of Bishops and to the Second Church Estates Commissioner.

[Charlie Dewhirst (Bridlington and The Wolds) (Con)]

5. What steps the Church of England is taking to increase the number of vicars in rural parishes.

[Sir Alan Campbell]

The Church of England remains committed to ministry in all communities across the country, but the deployment of clergy is a responsibility for local diocesan bishops and their leadership teams. The national Church institutions have increased the money available to all dioceses for clergy training by 30% in the next spending period.

[Charlie Dewhirst]

I thank the Leader of the House for that answer, and please can he pass my best wishes on to the Second Church Estates Commissioner? In my area, 26 churches are covered by just five priests, and only three of those priests are paid, so I hope that the Leader of the House will join me in thanking all the regular churchgoers who do so much to ensure the maintenance and upkeep of the beautiful churches right across East Yorkshire. Will he do everything he can to ensure that the Church of England attracts more priests into the fold?

[Sir Alan Campbell]

I will pass on the hon. Gentleman’s best wishes to the Second Church Estates Commissioner. The position he describes is, I think, not unusual across the country. I certainly join him in thanking regular churchgoers for everything they do for the upkeep of their churches. I will convey his comments to the Second Church Estates Commissioner, and I am sure that she will write to him as soon as possible.

[James Asser (West Ham and Beckton) (Lab)]

6. What support the Church of England is providing to Christians in the Occupied Palestinian Territories.

[Sir Alan Campbell]

The Archbishop of York visited Israel and the Occupied Palestinian Territories earlier this month. He met Palestinian families on the west bank and addressed the congregation at St Andrew’s church in Ramallah. He also visited villages and highlighted the way that settlers are, in the Archbishop’s own words, “squeezing out” Palestinians.

[James Asser]

There is growing concern about settler violence on the west bank. Churches in my constituency have raised that concern, and have particularly highlighted the attacks on the Christian community, which is, in their words, small and often overlooked. May I ask the Second Church Estates Commissioner, via the Leader of the House, to use the role of the Church Commissioners to ensure that this issue stays on the agenda and in the public eye, so that this community and what is happening to it is not forgotten, either in Parliament or in the wider world?

[Sir Alan Campbell]

I certainly will do that. The Archbishop’s delegation also visited the west bank, where he met Christian Palestinian families affected by settler violence and faced a tense stand-off with armed settlers before being ordered to leave by the Israeli police. We must not lose sight of Gaza and the west bank. The ceasefire is not peace. Land disputes are rising in frequency. Ancient olive groves are being uprooted, and in Gaza food, fuel, medicine and aid remain critically short. The Archbishop commented on his return:

“They do feel let down and forgotten by the rest of the world, and, as Palestinian Christians, by the churches of the world, that here in the land of the Holy One, those who follow him are being squeezed out of existence and forced from their homes. I promised those women I would tell their story and enable their voices to be heard.”

I thank my hon. Friend for making sure that those voices are being heard today.

[Mr Speaker]

I call the Father of the House.

[Sir Edward Leigh (Gainsborough) (Con)]

I agree with everything the Leader of the House has just said. The fact is, the pressure by illegal settlers on Christians and Muslims in Jerusalem and the west bank is absolutely appalling, particularly in Taybeh, the last Christian town on the west bank. I have been to the west bank and have seen for myself what is going on. The pressure on the Armenians in Jerusalem and the raising of the issue of the church property tax by the Mayor of Jerusalem —this has to stop. The whole country and the Church—all the Churches—must speak out and say that Palestinian Christians and Muslims have a right to live in peace, justice and security in their homeland.

[Sir Alan Campbell]

I agree with the right hon. Gentleman. The Government are doing everything they can to ensure religious freedom, wherever it happens to be under threat in the world. We need a just peace in this region—not just in Gaza and the west bank, but across the region—and part of living in peace is respecting other people’s faiths.

The hon. Member for Blaenau Gwent and Rhymney, representing the House of Commons Commission, was asked—

--- Later in debate ---

[Martin Vickers (Brigg and Immingham) (Con)]

8. What steps the Church Commissioners are taking to increase the number of ordained clergy.

[The Leader of the House of Commons (Sir Alan Campbell)]

The national Church institutions have held a national consultation to inform a new vocation strategy, and the House of Bishops has emphasised the importance of increasing the number of candidates entering training for ministry. Further work will take place this week at the biennial diocesan directors of ordinands conference.

[Martin Vickers]

As a member of the Ecclesiastical Committee, I never cease to be amazed by the number of officials who turn up to every meeting. Could the Leader of the House convey to the Second Church Estates Commissioner that perhaps slimming down Church bureaucracy would allow more resources to be available for the ministry?

[Sir Alan Campbell]

I will certainly do that. I will ask my hon. Friend to write to the hon. Gentleman on that matter.

[Siân Berry (Brighton Pavilion) (Green)]

10. To ask the hon. Member for Battersea, representing the Church Commissioners, what steps the Church of England is taking to install solar power for churches.

[Sir Alan Campbell]

The Church of England has committed to net zero carbon by 2030, and is actively supporting solar installations on churches and cathedrals to make the buildings more efficient to run, and to lower operating costs. Through its net zero carbon programme, the Church has allocated £30 million for the years 2023 to ’25, and a total of £190 million over nine years for energy efficiency and renewables projects.

[Siân Berry]

Brighton and Hove has excellent energy co-ops and many church roofs, so what is the Church doing to bring together clergy, congregations and co-ops to make more solar projects viable? Can the commissioners reduce planning risks for listed churches by adding more weight, perhaps through guidance or strategies, to their visible leadership role in communities?

[Sir Alan Campbell]

I congratulate the hon. Lady’s local churches, which are leading the way for others to follow. St Bartholomew’s church in Brighton is just one example of what can be done with a listed building to reduce long-term running costs via the installation of modern heating and lighting. Grants are available for solar panels via diocesan schemes alongside technical support and match funding initiatives. The main obstacle to faster installation is civil planning authorities that see their role as protecting the look and feel of a building, rather than ensuring that the building can pay for itself. I will draw the hon. Lady’s comments to the attention of the Second Church Estates Commissioner, my hon. Friend the Member for Battersea (Marsha De Cordova), who will, I am sure, give them consideration and write back.