Ukraine: Forcible Removal of Children

Baroness Chapman of Darlington Excerpts

Monday 24th November 2025 Lords Chamber

[The Minister of State, Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office (Baroness Chapman of Darlington) (Lab)]

My Lords, as noble Lords will know, talks are continuing today, and it is not the Government’s intention to provide any kind of running commentary on this, and I know that that noble Lords would not want us to do that. In answer to the noble Lord’s question, he can be assured that the UK and our partners and allies in the European Union are taking part and doing everything we can to bring about the lasting and just peace that we all wish to see.

[Baroness Tyler of Enfield (LD)]

My Lords, I welcome the fact that the UK Government have been closely working with the Bring Back Kids organisation and providing much needed assistance. Looking at the additional support that is very much needed, parliamentarians who have visited Kyiv recently have pointed to the need for greater collaboration between intelligence services on the tracing of those stolen children and financial assistance to support the interrogation of the data. Both those things could make a real difference. What consideration are the Government giving to these proposals?

[Baroness Chapman of Darlington (Lab)]

Speaking personally and for the Government, I think that the removal of 20,000 Ukrainian children is one of the most horrific elements of this whole awful war. We are doing everything we can to work with our partners and allies, even as far as working with celebrities or anybody who can bring attention to this and put pressure to see these children returned home to where they ought to be. Several hundred have returned, and we are helping to support them with the psychosocial support that they very much need. We know that these children are held in around 400 different locations. This is complex and difficult, but it is incredibly important, and our focus will remain—as the noble Baroness would want it to be—on seeing these children returned home.

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, I welcome the role that the Government are playing, particularly the creation of the coalition formed with Canada. I know that Minister cannot comment on leaked reports, but nevertheless we welcome that this is a specific provision within the proposed plan. Can the Minister assure us that the coalition will be fully leveraged and also harness the efforts that Qatar has been making in this important aspect as well?

[Baroness Chapman of Darlington (Lab)]

The noble Lord often reminds us of this, and I share his admiration for the work of the Qataris, not just in this process but in many others too. They are exceptionally successful, and I admire their work. Yes, we will. The noble Lord knows, probably better than many others in this House, that we are very reluctant to make any kind of comment while these negotiations are so live and are moving. The work that we undertake alongside other members of the coalition of the willing—he mentioned the Canadians in particular—will be sustained for as long as it is needed.

[The Lord Bishop of Leeds]

My Lords, will the Minister respond to two questions? First, on the real impact of sanctions, they do not seem to have diminished in any way Russia’s ability or intention to pursue this war of attrition and the cruelties that have already been mentioned, particularly in relation to children. Secondly, as someone who was a Soviet military specialist in a previous career, I can say that their aim is not to punish children but to wipe out a generation’s memory and retell a story. The effects of that, even if children are brought back at the end of this war, are going to go on for a generation. Have the Government given any consideration to how the rules-based international order can be effectively used to counter this and prepare for that longer term future?

[Baroness Chapman of Darlington (Lab)]

First, I pay tribute to the right reverend Prelate for his knowledge and experience and the care and consideration that he brings to this and other matters. I know that he will soon retire from this House, although I hope not entirely from these issues. He is absolutely right to remind us that the removal of children, horrendous as it is, was not just to use children as a pawn in this conflict; it is absolutely about diminishing the identity of Ukraine and removing all vestiges of its own sovereignty. For so many reasons, we will continue to work to see these children returned. I look forward to continuing to work with the right reverend Prelate in future on these and many other issues.

[Lord Swire (Con)]

Last week, some of us were privileged to hear the testimony of two former Ukrainian prisoners of the Russians here in this House—we listened to their harrowing testimony. Can the Minister reassure us that in any peace deal articulated by the Americans or with the EU, the egregious infringement and abuse of human rights through torture, false imprisonment and everything that goes with it will not be lost in any settlement, and people will be pursued, if necessary to the International Criminal Court?

[Baroness Chapman of Darlington (Lab)]

Accountability and responsibility for breaches of international humanitarian law and atrocities matter a great deal to this Government, and we will not compromise on that in any situation. As for what this agreement may finally look like, I hope that there is one because we all want to see a lasting peace sustained. The negotiations at the moment are between the US and Ukraine, with the support of the United Kingdom and others, but what matters more than anything, in order to get that sustainable peace, is to hear the voices of the Ukrainians and for the peace agreement, whatever it might look like, to be something that the Ukrainians can accept.

[Lord West of Spithead (Lab)]

Should the present negotiations fail, which one hopes they will not, one of the few big levers that Europeans have, as distinct from Americans, are the frozen assets. We have been particularly poor at utilising that. Have we been putting in place mechanisms whereby, should the negotiations fail, we can use those assets for the benefit of Ukraine to show Putin that this is really not a game worth playing?

--- Later in debate ---

[Baroness Chapman of Darlington (Lab)]

I am very mindful of what the noble Lord says. We have heard calls from across this House and in the other place encouraging us to move on this. The fundamental premise of this, which the Government support, is that whatever happens and however it is done, it is for the Russians to pay for the rebuilding and to repair that which they have had such a role in destroying.

[Baroness Butler-Sloss (CB)]

As far as I can see from the press on what is happening in Geneva, and indeed from the States, no mention of children was made as one of the situations that should be regarded. Has the UK put this forward?

[Baroness Chapman of Darlington (Lab)]

I am reluctant to get into dissecting the 28-point plan and the things that have been put forward. The issue of children has absolutely been raised, and it is vital that those children are returned. That is the position that we and everybody else constantly make clear throughout any discussions.

[Lord Banner (Con)]

My Lords, what is the Government’s strategy if it becomes apparent that the only deal the United States of America will back is one that legitimises the theft of children and land?

[Baroness Chapman of Darlington (Lab)]

I cannot imagine that that would be the case. I know that the noble Lord has a personal close interest in this, and I understand completely why he is pushing me on it, but I am not going to get into what we would or would not do and what other people may or may not accept as an outcome. I am happy to say again that I think the return of these children is not something on which anybody wishes to compromise.

[Lord Brooke of Alverthorpe (Lab)]

My Lords, will the Minister, recognising how sensitive it is at the moment to ask questions, say something about where we are with a coalition of the willing? Given that periodically the USA indicates that it will not allow NATO to go in certain directions, there is a case for the coalition of the willing to be around and even to be able to deal with other issues that might come along. Given that we have so many younger people unemployed, could we conceivably try to make a link between the two?

[Baroness Chapman of Darlington (Lab)]

I am not sure that I understand the very last point that my noble friend made about young people being unemployed, but on the coalition of the willing, that has proved useful and will continue to be vital as we move this forward because the discussions that are taking place at the moment are between the USA and Ukraine, but it is vital, for this to be lasting, that there is a broad network of support around whatever is agreed and, as I say, that must be agreed primarily by the Ukrainian leadership and actually by the people of Ukraine.