Bank Branch Closures

Gareth Thomas Excerpts

Thursday 30th June 2016 Commons Chamber

[Christian Matheson]

I have to say that the thought had not occurred to me, but I think that dreadful case illustrates a problem on which we should all focus. We can have a lot more confidence in dealing with a bank when we are inside a physical bank and dealing with an individual as opposed to being subjected to one these terrible scams. I am most grateful to the hon. Lady for bringing that awful case and awful problem to our attention.

[Mr Gareth Thomas (Harrow West) (Lab/Co-op)]

The trend is towards bank branch closures, and we tend to see that more in areas of deprivation and of the greatest need. Given that in these areas people often face high interest rate alternatives, does my hon. Friend think that we should hear more from the Government about how they intend to create more responsible finance options in areas where bank branch closures are happening—such as more support for credit unions and for community banks, of which there are a number in the UK?

[Christian Matheson]

My hon. Friend has a long, proud and honourable history of working within the co-operative movement, and he is an expert in this area. I intend to touch briefly on the role of credit unions as I progress through my speech.

Let me return to the problems faced by pensioners in accessing bank branches. I realise that this is not necessarily the responsibility of the Minister who is present, but at the same time as branch closures in the satellite districts are forcing people into the town centre, privatised bus companies are cutting the bus services on which pensioners rely more than any other group in society, this making it even harder for them to make that journey into the centre.

It is clear that local post offices have taken up some of the demand. Members, both current and previous, have fought long and hard against the closure of those post offices, whose continued existence has been aided by their provision of banking services. I am pleased that they have that role, but it does not constitute a suitable total replacement,

I suspect that Members may criticise the banks for the manner in which they undertake their closure programmes. I, too, am critical of the seemingly hasty and often desperate way in which those programmes are conducted, based solely on cost-saving and with no eye to service. Today, however, I want to be positive, and to propose a new solution which I hope the Minister will consider.

My suggestion is that high street banks should come together where they are closing branches to form local banking hubs. In other words, they should maintain provision on local high streets, as opposed to major town centre high streets, in shared premises and with shared costs. They could provide the automatic paying-in and cash withdrawal machines that we see in bank branches now, along with, perhaps, booths containing phones so that clients could contact bank call centres if necessary. As was suggested by the hon. Member for Rutherglen and Hamilton West (Margaret Ferrier), it might also be helpful if staff were present to assist.

I accept that there are technicalities to be resolved—who would employ the staff, and who would own or lease the properties?—but today I am concerned only with floating the principle, and, indeed, it is not my role to be prescriptive to the banks about the specific business model. It is possible that various models could be tried and tested, and I wish to offer Chester as a test bed where the banks could come together and provide a model community banking hub. Perhaps Chester’s credit union could be involved as well.

Let me therefore throw down the gauntlet, and challenge the banks to take my proposal seriously. I invite them to come to Chester—or Wells, or Aberystwyth—to set up a joint hub, and give it two years to see if it works. That is a serious offer, and I will help the banks to make a success of it in my patch. Either that, or they should stop using advertising that suggests that they are more human and accessible, while continuing to close local branches and make access harder. Banking is a private sector business, but it is also an essential service. A bank is an essential part of the local high street ecosystem. There must be no more cavalier closures of branches which, in turn, damage the local economy: banks are too important for that. In 2008, we learned that some big banks were—apparently— too big to fail. Perhaps the message today should be that some local banks are too important to local communities to be allowed to close.

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[James Heappey]

I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman for his intervention. While of course the Treasury will have an interest in the provision of banking, DCMS will have an interest in the provision of broadband, and the Department for Communities and Local Government and perhaps the Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs might concern themselves with the overall impact on the viability of communities in both rural areas and towns.

I am also concerned about the capacity of the post office network to pick up the slack. They are offered again and again as the route out of a bank closure, yet too often there are reasons why the Post Office cannot do more, and I will come to that shortly.

Finally, there is the availability of free-to-use ATMs in our town centres. Replacing an ATM outside a bank with something we need to pay a few pounds to use is not fair on the community that then finds itself needing to access its cash at that expense.

[Mr Gareth Thomas]

In the United States, when banks take significant deposits from particular communities, they are required by regulators to demonstrate that they are offering significant financial services to those communities in return. Does the hon. Gentleman think that such a requirement might have meant that his Glastonbury constituents might have had some confidence that the banks were at least going to help a credit union or community bank to get up and running, to offer an alternative service if those banks were still determined to leave?

[James Heappey]

The hon. Gentleman steals my thunder, because I had indeed read Congress’s Community Reinvestment Act and I think there are some very interesting things in it. For the benefit of Members who might not be familiar with it, it does exactly as the hon. Gentleman suggests: it is a safety net that means that those getting a banking licence in the United States can of course bank in all the affluent areas, but they are also required to offer equal access to banking in less affluent areas, and there are ways to make sure that that is happening, which the Government may wish to consider.

The hon. Member for City of Chester (Christian Matheson) picked up on the very worrying Reuters research reported by Andrew MacAskill and Lawrence White. I hope that the Treasury is aware of it. That 90% of closures are in areas where the median household income is below the national average is deeply suspicious and I am sure cannot be just a coincidence. It concerns me enormously that the two banks that have closed the most branches since 2008 are those that benefited the most from the bail-out by the hard-working taxpayers whom they have subsequently turned their backs on. As a good Conservative, I do not propose to advocate interference with the business plans of those banks, but I do think it is important to make sure that they are not focusing their branch network on the areas where they can make the most cash, when the nation collectively bailed them out not so long ago.

Worse still, as those bank branches close—we are now down to fewer than 9,000 branches on UK high streets—payday lenders are opening branches at an alarming rate. I draw no connection with the fact that payday lenders are targeting high streets where the conventional banks have gone. However, if the Reuters research is correct and the banks are closing at a quicker rate in less well-off areas and the payday lenders, as we know, are targeting the very same areas, it bothers me enormously that on those high streets there is no access to proper conventional banking products but plenty of access to payday lenders. I am not sure that that is socially just and it must be a concern for us all.

The impact on small businesses is significant. Representatives of the Federation of Small Businesses met with me at the Royal Bath & West Show, having heard that this debate today had been granted, and were falling over themselves to say that they would be able to provide me with information. They have been hugely helpful. The reality is that the bank branch network is most valuable to small businesses. Yes, we must worry about the vulnerable and the isolated, but they are a relatively small number of those who need to access banking. It is the small business community that has no other choice. Small businesses rely on cash, and sometimes they have no other staff.

Glastonbury is a great example of a high street where there are lots of small shops. If you are in the market for all sorts of crystals or joss sticks and everything else, Glastonbury is the place. There are dozens and dozens of tiny shops that have only one person working in them at a time. So when the moment comes in the afternoon to clear out the till from that day’s takings and leave just the float for the next day, the shop must close. A year ago, the person would run round the corner, do their banking and then be back in the shop about 15 minutes later, and that was all the custom they lost. Now, unless they are fortunate to bank with one of the banks with which the Post Office has agreed full functionality, they must get in their car, or on the bus, and travel a few miles away and potentially be closed for an hour. It is unworkable. The travel is simply not an option for them and digitisation will not change that. People going into small shops such as these, where they are buying knick-knacks—I am sure Hansard will enjoy that term—for relatively small amounts of money, will invariably pay in cash.

The Competition and Markets Authority has also done some research, and has found branch convenience to be the second most important factor when choosing a bank. Some 84% of respondents classed bank branches as important to their business. Further research by McKinsey found that one third of small and medium-sized enterprises use bank branches at least once a week, and 52% of respondents to the FSB rural banking survey said that they communicate with their bank in branch and three quarters said that if they still had a branch they would prefer to be doing their communication there, face to face. It is important to state that what they are concerned about is not just their ability to bank in cash; they are also concerned about that relationship—their ability to informally access advice from someone in a branch who understands the business climate in their area. That is being taken away from them. They want something that is tailored, trusted and freely available from somebody they know and who lives and works amongst them, rather than somebody on the end of a phone in a call centre located who knows where.

The basic backing that is required for business is coming; this process is not entirely without mitigation. There is greater online functionality—the ability to pay in a cheque by taking photographs of it on your smartphone and so forth is all great. The arrival of smart ATMs that will be able to process cash deposits is also very welcome. G4S—who we remember from the Olympics—now says it will drive around and collect people’s cash from them and return cash to them; businesses can make their own minds up about that. But the reality is that whatever G4S may or may not do and however brilliant smart ATMs may be, their roll-out is not happening before these branches close and, as a result, communities are being left with a gap.

As I have said, the post office network is the alternative. The Post Office is enthusiastic about the opportunity, of course, as it is a significant opportunity for it as a business, but the banks cannot have it both ways. If post offices are going to be offered up as the alternative when a bank branch closes, the bank must be willing to surrender full functionality to the Post Office so that businesses and private users are able to access the full suite of banking services. As I understand it, the banks are offering up post offices as an alternative in their community impact statements, only to say subsequently that they will not give up those functions to the Post Office because they are worried that it will steal their business. I believe that if they are worried about losing out to the competition in that town, they should stay in the town. If they have made the decision to leave, they should accept that they need to surrender some of the functionality so that their customers will have the mitigation that the banks have promised in their community impact statements.

Some anomalies have been identified. It is rumoured that there are issues over the limit on the amount of cash that the post offices are willing and able to deal with. That limit clearly needs to be removed. If someone with a small business has a monster day of trading, they need to be able to go round the corner and pay in the full amount that is in their till rather than having to sleep uneasily that night through worry that a great day’s take is still in the shop. There is also an issue over paying-in slips, which we must surely be able to get over. The banks need to sit down with the Post Office to ensure that post offices are fully able to deliver the banking the businesses need, not just the bits that the banks will allow them to deliver.

The Government obviously also have a part to play in this. The Post Office’s arrangement with the Government is up for review in 2018, and I know that the Minister will speak forcefully in that renegotiation to stand up for the needs of the banking community, given how important post offices are becoming to communities around the country for the purposes of doing their banking.

My asks to the Government also include, first, that the access to banking protocols review should be thorough and candid. Community impact statements are too debatable, as I have said. The transport data that are used in them are too often inaccurate, as are the data on the number of people using a branch. Banks say that regular users number a couple of dozen, but campaigners standing outside the branch counting people in and out say that there are many thousands. The catchment areas are shrunk right down almost to the postcode in which the branch is situated, yet the reality is that they serve a rural hinterland that is much larger. [Interruption.] I will be about one minute, Mr Deputy Speaker, if you will indulge me. The connectivity issue is also often not fully understood in the impact statements.

When I spoke to Messrs MacAskill and White from Reuters, they told me that it was extraordinarily difficult to access the data on what had closed and where since 2008. If their research is right, this is happening disproportionately in poorer areas, but I am sure that the banks will want to make it clear that that is not the case by publishing their data in full. I am sure that the Government will be keen to check the data and we in this House will also be keen to know that that is not the case. This is a simple matter of fairness. People value their access to a bank. There are many reasons why the access to banking protocols need to be strengthened, and I am sure that the Treasury will take note of this debate today.

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[Mr Lammy]

The hon. Lady makes an excellent point; that is also my experience.

I am talking about consultation with democratically elected people. Banks certainly ought to speak to the local authority leader before making a decision to say, “We’re thinking about it. What do you think the impact might be?” All of us, as professionals and Members of Parliament, are used to having private, confidential conversations every day of the week. We are sometimes able to say, in private, “Have you thought about this or that?” We can talk about the future economic context of a community of which the bank may not be aware. But there was none of that; I was presented with a fait accompli. Frankly, HSBC was patronising.

When I was a 16-year-old with what felt like very little prospects way back in the mid-1980s, I got a little job over the summer holidays in that local HSBC branch—it was then Midland Bank. I feel personally affronted that the bank where I saw my first prospects, and where I had put on a suit and thought that I might have serious job one day, is to be shut down without HSBC even thinking of consulting me. It meant a lot in the local community that I used to work in the bank, but HSBC was not interested. That is what big banking has come to in this country after all that we have paid in. I am frankly appalled by HSBC’s behaviour.

Given that the Government talk about being a friend of small business and the high street, it is important that they think carefully about this issue. In June 2014, research by YouGov for the British Bankers Association found that over 50% of people see a branch as important, with that figure rising to 68% for SME customers. The impact of branch closures goes far beyond local businesses having nowhere to go to get credit or to do their banking. The consequences are grave for the whole high street.

Local retailers are hit hard by the fact that customers go elsewhere when they do not have easy access to cash, which is still the preference for many, despite the rise of chip and pin and contactless payments. Cash still accounts for 46% of high street sales, with that figure rising to 75% in newsagents and convenience stores. On average, local ATMs inject some £16 per withdrawal directly into nearby stores, which amounts to £36 billion a year. More than a third of total high-street spending is contingent on the ready availability of cashpoints.

I was told by HSBC that one reason why it was closing my local branch was footfall on the high street. I pointed to the fact, which it had seemed not to realise, that we had had riots just a few years before and that we had found wonderful businesses that wanted to support the high street, not desert it, as it made its way back from the riots. Given that this bank was meant to be one of our national institutions, citing footfall as its reason was deeply painful to my constituents.

In tough times, people remember who their friends are. The banks should think carefully about their customer base and how their customers feel when banks desert a community that has already been through the mill and is trying to build its way back. I think of parts of this country that not so long ago had floods, for example. It takes a long time for a high street, a village or a town to get over a flood. Are the banks going to blame lack of footfall and say, “Things were a bit depressed for a few months so we just couldn’t stand by you. We’re disappearing”? Customers have stood by them, so it is about time that they grew some, as my mum would say, and stood by the community.

[Mr Gareth Thomas]

Can I tempt my right hon. Friend to agree that perhaps part of the solution would be more action by regulators and the Government to encourage different kinds of banks to emerge—banks that are profit-making, but not necessarily profit-maximising? Many banks, including those he has listed, will always face pressure from shareholders, in their management’s view, to reduce costs. Bank branch closures are always likely to be among the options available, so perhaps a different kind of bank is necessary.

[Mr Lammy]

My hon. Friend is right. The House will recall the hugely important role that building societies played in local communities 20 years ago. We destroyed that important relationship as they all merged and became banks, and now we are left where we are. That local proximity and that different structure were lost and now we have to reinvent it. I hope that the hon. Member for Wells is part of that reinvention. The Government should think carefully about whether we need a review of such new structures. If we do, the man to do it is my hon. Friend the Member for Harrow West (Mr Thomas), who knows a lot about mutualisation and co-operatives. We need that back on our high street.

The access to banking protocol is undergoing independent review by Professor Russel Griggs—I am sure that the Minister will refer to it. In response to my written questions last month, the Government revealed their belief that

“banks should act in the best interests of their customers and continue to serve the needs of the consumer as well as the wider economy”,

and that

“it is imperative that the banks live up to the spirit, as well as the letter, of the commitments in the protocol.”

However, the Government also revealed that they have not

“assessed the impact of the protocol or banks’ compliance with their commitments in the protocol”.

Perhaps the Government have not bothered to assess the protocol because they know that it is irrelevant. It cannot and does not aim to alter any decision and, as such, pays mere lip service to the idea of access to banking. The protocol states that after a bank has decided to close a branch, it will engage with local stakeholders in order to understand the impact on the community, businesses and consumers. What is the point of a consultation after the decision has been made? That is not a consultation in the proper sense of the word—it is a notification of the closure. May we change the wording from “consultation” to “notification”? Once the horse has bolted, it does not make a blind bit of difference how customers or local businesses will be affected, so surely it would make sense to have a proper, full and open consultation process in place when the bank is considering the future of a branch, before serving notice on the local community in question.

Another problem with the protocol is that there is no firm definition of adequate replacement services; it is left up to the bank to assess and even define those. Leaving the elderly and disabled with no choice but to take a 90-minute bus trip is not an adequate replacement service by any stretch of the imagination. It is clear that when banks make their decisions, they do not take into account the public interest or the likely damage that a closure will cause. I cannot see how the access to banking protocol is anything other than a woolly and inadequate attempt to protect the bank’s name.

The Government have not assessed banks’ compliance with the commitments in the protocol, I assume because their conclusion would be that there is no mechanism in place to police whether banks have fulfilled the commitments that they made in relation to closing down a branch. If a bank says that it is closing a branch but will work out an arrangement with the post office so that customers can bank there, or will move its ATM so that customers can still use it, are those promises worth anything if there is no way to enforce them? The access to banking protocol is merely being used as a Trojan horse on both sides. Banks can claim they have followed the protocol, no matter how meaningless it is, and that therefore their hands are clean and they do not need to do any more.

On that basis, it really is time the Government got a grip of this quiet scandal and tragedy that is taking place across our country and really hurting a lot of local communities. I commend my hon. Friend the Member for City of Chester for bringing this debate to the House.

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[Mr Gareth Thomas (Harrow West) (Lab/Co-op)]

It would be naive to suggest that the world of banking has not changed with the rise of apps and internet banking. However, this debate is important, not least because the continuing closure of bank branches is emblematic of insufficient access to affordable credit, both for individuals—particularly those who, for whatever reason, are in challenging financial circumstances—and for small and medium-sized businesses that struggle to access the capital they need to expand. In that context, it is a pleasure to follow my hon. Friend the Member for Clwyd South (Susan Elan Jones), who made several particularly good points about the specific challenges that bank branch closures cause for people and businesses in rural areas.

I will, if I may, dwell on a number of areas. My right hon. Friend the Member for Tottenham (Mr Lammy) mentioned the difference mutuals make. He is right to suggest that the mutuals sector is smaller than it once was, but building societies such as the Nationwide, the Skipton, the Yorkshire, the Coventry and so on still play an important role in the communities they serve. They are much slower to close branches, which is an important symbol of their determination to do the right thing by their communities. They are helped in that by the fact that they do not have shareholders putting pressure on them always to maximise profits.

In that spirit, I encourage the Minister to dwell in her winding-up speech on what she and her Treasury colleagues might do to encourage the expansion of the mutuals sector. That sector covers not just the traditional building societies, but organisations that are part of the responsible finance movement—the community development finance institutions—of which I know she is aware.

I am thinking of the excellent work done by responsible finance institutions, such as Fair Finance, to encourage lending for individuals who cannot get loans from traditional institutions. I am also thinking of the work done by CDFIs focused on businesses, such as Greater London Enterprise, which are much more willing to provide loans to organisations set up by individuals in London which cannot access traditional sources of finance.

The responsible finance sector lends some £250 million annually to small and medium-sized enterprises, social enterprises and individuals unable to access mainstream finance. I give the Government credit for the fact that, under their regional growth fund, many community development finance institutions—or whatever we want to call them—have been able to access small additional funds to enable them to expand a little. I wonder whether it is not now time for the Treasury to be a bit more ambitious for the responsible finance sector and to look at what more it can do significantly to expand its capacity to lend more, particularly to small and medium-sized enterprises.

I ask the Minister to reflect on the way in which credit unions might be expanded. My hon. Friend the Member for City of Chester (Christian Matheson)—I commend him and the hon. Members for Ceredigion (Mr Williams) and for Wells (James Heappey) for securing this debate—mentioned the significance of credit unions. They are expanding fast, but they are still a relatively small sector within the financial services world.

The previous Government initiated a project to consider whether credit unions’ back-office functions could be significantly improved. I wonder whether it is not now time to look at how the Government can help to improve the front end of the credit union world. What can be done to encourage better marketing of credit unions? I wonder whether it is possible for the major credit unions in London to come together, perhaps with a bit of Government support, to offer a common platform of services across London. As a result of a bit more marketing support, credit unions would get more attention than they do at the moment.

Similarly, I wonder whether there should be a duty on public services actively to encourage their employees to consider the promotion of credit unions to their staff. I find it unbelievable that some public service bodies, such as Transport for London, still do not have an arrangement to enable staff to pay money directly from their wages so that they can be members of a credit union, if they want to. Many NHS hospitals do that, as do some Departments. I ask the Minister to reflect on whether the gentle prod of a letter from her, sent around the civil service and devolved institutions, could be a positive step forward in encouraging the better promotion of credit unions.

I commend the hon. Member for Wells for taking the time to look at the Community Reinvestment Act from the United States. That Act should serve as a model for further UK debate about financial services regulation and what can be done to ensure that those who take money from us in the form of savings accounts and so on also put proper financial services back into our communities.

The Community Reinvestment Act arose from US civil rights activists’ concerns that banks were redlining areas where black people lived and were not providing financial services for those communities. There are similar concerns about under-served communities in the UK. I do not think that anyone is suggesting that that is happening on racial lines, by any means; rather, there are significant areas of deprivation that are not being served properly by major financial services institutions.

I think of the Thamesmead estate of about 50,000 homes in south London. There is no major bank on the estate—the nearest is a 30 to 40 minute car or bus journey away—and, needless to say, the high interest credit providers are extremely active there. Again, that is a worry, as it can increase the cycle of indebtedness. Volunteers on the estate are making efforts to encourage access to credit unions, but there should be more support from the Government to put pressure on the big financial institutions either to lend to those communities themselves or to work with other organisations such as community banks, responsible finance providers and credit unions to offer a more comprehensive service on site. Such pressure is extremely important.

To give the Government credit, they have required the British Banking Association to publish data on the level of lending in particular communities. That is welcome. But I wonder whether the Minister has had the chance to review the quality of those data, and consult those who actively look at what banking data reveal, to see whether there are more detailed requirements for better data from banking institutions. Certainly, I have had representations from the Community Investment Coalition suggesting that banks are not yet providing detail of the right granularity to enable effective conclusions to be drawn about where lending is appropriate. Will the Minister look at that?

Lastly, I commend the work of the think-tank Demos, which in 2015 published the case for a network of independent local banks across the UK. It noted in particular that the 2014 Breedon report, commissioned by the Government, showed a lending gap for small and medium-sized businesses of between £26 billion and almost £60 billion. Given the current level of uncertainty that all of us in the House are all too conscious of, doing more to make it easier for businesses and entrepreneurs with great ideas to get access to the finance they need to expand is clearly hugely important.

The work by Demos also revealed the significant differences in the rates of lending to small and medium-sized enterprises, with rejection rates for bank loans for SMEs highest in Wales, Yorkshire and the Humber, the north-east and the north-west. That suggests there is a strong case if not for regional banks then for putting more effort into securing new types of banking institutions with a stronger reach in those areas in particular. Many community banks, responsible finance banks and so on, which are already in existence, could be scaled up in those areas, but again that would require Government commitment to move in that direction. I gently encourage the Minister to look upon that idea with enthusiasm going forward.

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[Harriett Baldwin]

The hon. Gentleman knows that that is worth a whole Adjournment debate in itself, so I will talk about the access to banking protocol instead.

The protocol means that when a bank decides to close a branch it must think carefully about the consequences of doing so, particularly when it is the last bank in town. We have heard today—this debate is timely—that Professor Russel Griggs has been appointed by the BBA to review how it has been working in its first year. All the points raised by Members will be excellent submissions to that review. I hope he will take the opportunity to meet hon. Members to hear at first-hand the feedback on the independent review of the protocol. I would like practical recommendations to come out of the review on how we can move forward. I think we all recognise there will be an ongoing review by banks on how they can best use their branches.

[Mr Gareth Thomas]

The Minister has a reputation for being one of the most reasonable of her colleagues on the Government Front Bench. Is she willing to receive a deputation from the people in the credit union and the responsible finance industry to see what else might be possible to help them to grow?

[Harriett Baldwin]

I am glad to confirm that all the occupants of the Government Front Bench are entirely reasonable and sane. I regularly meet members of the credit union industry. The hon. Gentleman’s point brings me on to credit unions specifically.

We think that credit unions are very much worth backing. As the hon. Gentleman will know, we have put a great deal of money into improving their technology. One of the challenges they have is scale: the smallness of some credit unions means that they need a communal IT platform. We have subsidised that to the tune of £38 million. I also want to highlight to the House that we have, in the past few days, launched a consultation—people may have missed it, with all the other news that has been coming out—on how the Help to Save product will work. I encourage credit unions to come forward with proposals on how they could be a part of this really important saving product.

Many Members have alluded to the important role that the post office network can play in solving this problem. As we know, this Government, like the last one, have committed to subsidising the network and making it viable. I dispute what the hon. Member for Ynys Môn (Albert Owen) said about the network having fallen from 11,900. The figure has stayed above 11,500—just over 11,600, I think—so there has been a small decline, but not the precipitous decline we saw when Labour was in government. Post offices are an important part of the solution. For example, the network’s opening hours have increased by nearly 200,000 as a result of the modernisation process.

Members have mentioned the importance of mobile phone signals, digital connectivity and our commitment on universal access. Those things are also an important part of the solution. Moreover, we currently have a record number of free-to-use ATMs in this country—about 45,000—and there is a commitment from the LINK network to continue expanding their number, particularly into harder-to-reach communities.

We have heard powerful and passionate contributions from the right hon. Member for Tottenham (Mr Lammy), my hon. Friend the Member for Brecon and Radnorshire (Chris Davies) and the hon. Members for Clwyd South (Susan Elan Jones) and for Harrow West (Mr Thomas), the last of whom talked about the affordable credit sector and the help we are giving to the mutuals sector. We have also talked about lending to small and medium-sized enterprises and the importance of the community finance network, which I know from my own constituency is very important. There are also now other platforms through which small businesses can access finance, such as peer-to-peer platforms and so on.

I do not have time to make all my points, but my door is open. We all aspire to ensure that as we go through this evolution we maintain good access to finance for everybody. Healthy competition is also important. The new starter banks—five have got a banking licence in this Parliament so far—are an important part of the solution, as too is the way firms are adapting branches to use technology to provide more services. I have run out of time—I want to hand over to the hon. Member for City of Chester to conclude—but this has been a very important and well-timed debate.