National Crime Agency

Gregory Campbell Excerpts

Wednesday 22nd October 2014 Commons Chamber

[Mr Gregory Campbell (East Londonderry) (DUP)]

I beg to move,

That this House condemns the increasing number of illegal activities being carried out by organised criminal gangs in Northern Ireland; notes police assessments that more than 140 such gangs operate in Northern Ireland; and calls for the implementation, in full, of proposals for the National Crime Agency to help deal with this problem, which is particularly prevalent in border areas.

This is an extremely important debate given the context of criminal activity right across the United Kingdom, but particularly in Northern Ireland. In recent months, the police in Northern Ireland have given their assessment that there are between 140 and 160 criminal gangs operating in the Province. The police have also indicated that they would like the utmost co-operation right across the community in dealing with these criminal gangs and attempting not just to stop and stifle their activities but to seize any proceeds from their illegal activities.

Last year the Police Service of Northern Ireland stated:

“It is the PSNI view that if the NCA is unable to operate fully in Northern Ireland, this will have a detrimental impact on our ability to keep people safe…It remains our view that the NCA should only work in Northern Ireland alongside the PSNI, so that operational control ultimately remains with the Chief Constable and nothing proceeds without agreement. There must be complete transparency for PSNI of the NCA’s intelligence, investigations and operational activity. Through such arrangements, the Chief Constable can be held accountable for NCA operations via the Policing Board.”

My reason for quoting that statement at some length is that there have been some “concerns” in Northern Ireland about accountability measures and how they will apply to the operation of the NCA. In fact, the Social Democratic and Labour party and Sinn Fein have indicated, thus far, their lack of preparedness to endorse the NCA.

In addition to that PSNI statement, the Chief Constable has had a number of meetings with various political representatives in order to reassure them that the accountability measures needed are currently in place—he is absolutely clear about that. Therefore, given the scale of the number of criminal gangs that are operating—there are up to 160 of them—and what they could do, not just in Northern Ireland, but in the rest of the United Kingdom, one would have hoped for, and expected to see, total support for the full implementation of the NCA in order to deal with them.

[Naomi Long (Belfast East) (Alliance)]

I appreciate the fact that the hon. Gentleman has raised this matter. Does he agree that there is also a financial cost—not just for Northern Ireland, but for the UK more widely—because civil recovery has been affected by the NCA’s inability to operate fully in Northern Ireland?

[Mr Campbell]

Yes, that is indeed the case. Although that is not the primary concern, it is an additional one to that which I am about to discuss. I thank the hon. Lady for raising it.

[Lady Hermon (North Down) (Ind)]

Following on from the important point raised by the hon. Member for Belfast East (Naomi Long), given the absence of the wonderful and excellent Assets Recovery Agency, which used to operate in Northern Ireland but was, unfortunately, eaten up and extinguished by the Serious Organised Crime Agency, and given that the NCA does not apply to Northern Ireland, what powers of assets recovery do organisations, particularly the PSNI, have in Northern Ireland?

[Mr Campbell]

I thank the hon. Lady for her question. The short answer is that those powers are extremely limited; they are virtually non-existent. I will come on to some of the issues that date back to SOCA operations, which have now been superseded by the NCA.

[Ms Margaret Ritchie (South Down) (SDLP)]

The hon. Gentleman has referred to my party. The SDLP has vigorously opposed any form of criminality at every stage. Will the hon. Gentleman clarify and outline the depth and intensity of accountability he sees in respect of the Northern Ireland Policing Board and the Chief Constable?

[Mr Campbell]

I understand that the Chief Constable has had at least one—possibly even several—meetings with the SDLP and has assured it on the issue of his role and co-operation with the Policing Board by repeating what was said in the May 2013 statement that “nothing proceeds without agreement” in connection with the work of the NCA, and that the Chief Constable is

“held accountable for NCA operations via the Policing Board.”

The hon. Lady will know that members of her party and of Sinn Fein serve on the Policing Board.

[Sammy Wilson (East Antrim) (DUP)]

Does my hon. Friend not find it odd that the hon. Member for South Down (Ms Ritchie) has raised the issue of accountability for the NCA when her party signed up to policing at a time when SOCA had no degree of accountability through the Policing Board? The SDLP had no objections then, but now that we are discussing SOCA’s replacement apparently the whole issue of accountability is important.

[Mr Campbell]

I thank my hon. Friend for that intervention. The point of today’s debate is to say that, while discussions between the Chief Constable and the SDLP continue, there are 140-plus criminal gangs operating through the Republic of Ireland into Northern Ireland and the UK and smuggling not millions, but tens of millions of pounds-worth of illegal drugs. Some of that activity could be prevented by the full operation of the NCA.

[Ian Paisley (North Antrim) (DUP)]

The situation goes even further. According to the police today, there has not been one single civil recovery of a crime asset since the NCA took over, because the PSNI does not have the surge capability to do that. We are actually losing our ability to make civil recoveries.

[Mr Campbell]

I thank my hon. Friend for making that point, which is a damning indictment of those who still hold back from offering support for the full implementation of the NCA. I note from recent reports that, while meetings between the police and the SDLP continue—they do not appear to have come to a satisfactory conclusion—Sinn Fein has not responded to requests from the Department of Justice for a meeting about the issue. That is the scale of the problem we face.

[Mr David Hanson (Delyn) (Lab)]

The Bill that established the NCA received its Second Reading almost two years ago and this issue was raised by every member of the Bill Committee. Does the hon. Gentleman think that the Government have a duty of care to bring the parties and the Minister of Justice together to discuss and finalise the issue?

[Mr Campbell]

I thank the right hon. Gentleman for that question. I agree that the Government have a responsibility because, while the delay and failure to fully implement the NCA continues, our young people—not just in Northern Ireland; I will come in a moment to how far this penetrates—are suffering as a result of criminal operations.

[Mr Nigel Dodds (Belfast North) (DUP)]

Further to the point raised by the Opposition spokesman, the right hon. Member for Delyn (Mr Hanson), does my hon. Friend share my frustration that when the Government here are asked to comment on these issues, their view often seems to be, “Oh, the parties in Northern Ireland can’t get this matter sorted out”? The Library briefing paper notes that the Secretary of State has referred on a number of occasions to problems within the Northern Ireland Executive if they cannot agree. We should put the truth out there: the fact of the matter is that the vast majority of parties want to make progress, except for the two nationalist parties.

[Mr Campbell]

I thank my right hon. Friend for that intervention. Virtually every party in Northern Ireland, with the exception of the SDLP and Sinn Fein, is in favour of the full implementation of the NCA.

[Mr Andrew Robathan (South Leicestershire) (Con)]

I agree entirely with the right hon. Member for Delyn and with the hon. Member for East Londonderry (Mr Campbell). I happen to think that there are some very good people—indeed, they are my friends—in the SDLP. I may disagree with them, but generally I think they are decent people. I thought, however, that they took the Labour party Whip, so does not the Labour party have a responsibility to put a little bit of pressure on its friends?

[Mr Campbell]

I look forward to the discussions between the SDLP and the Labour party resulting in that pressure being applied. I thank the right hon. Gentleman for specifically indicating, when he was in office, where the problems were in relation to this matter. I hope that that will be repeated by those on the Government Front Bench today.

[Ms Ritchie]

In my previous intervention, I asked the hon. Gentleman to specify the level of accountability between the NCA, and the Policing Board and Chief Constable. So far, he has not specifically dealt with that request, but perhaps he will do so in his further comments.

[Mr Campbell]

I repeat what I said on the previous occasion. The Chief Constable and the Policing Board appear to be totally content with the level of accountability and co-operation that will exist. I am afraid that the onus is on those who say that there is a lack of accountability. After having been reassured that there is no such lack and after it was indicated at several meetings that there is no reason or rationale for continuing to object to or oppose the implementation of the National Crime Agency, there is an onus on those who say that to explain why it is the case.

I now want to turn to a very relevant, important and topical issue that demonstrates the nature of the problem we face. Last month, a combination of security services boarded a yacht off the Irish Republic and detained the people on it, who had up to €80 million-worth of illegal cocaine. The cocaine was bound in part for the Irish Republic, but informed sources from the Irish Republic have indicated that the vast majority of it was for the United Kingdom. Of course, as we all know, the Republic of Ireland has a land border with the United Kingdom. Part of the reason why the authorities in the Irish Republic were able to apprehend the haul successfully in international waters off their coast was the co-operation of the National Crime Agency.

As a result, I tabled a question to the Justice Minister in the Northern Ireland Assembly last month. I asked him what the response would be if a similar consignment were to arrive on our shores from Northern Ireland waters, and we endeavoured to get the same level of co-operation to ensure that it did not reach land on the North Antrim or the County Londonderry coast—[Interruption.] Or anywhere—even the South Down coast. His written answer states:

“In a situation such as that outlined in the question I would expect the PSNI to be involved. There may also be a role for the NCA, the UKBA and HMRC to play. The role of the NCA would be limited, if the operation was in Northern Ireland territorial waters, as drug operations fall into the devolved sphere.”

The Northern Ireland Justice Minister is absolutely clear that if we have another consignment that comes close to our coast like the one I mentioned—it has not been the largest such consignment—the National Crime Agency will have severe limitations in helping to deal with that haul.

[Mr Jeffrey M. Donaldson (Lagan Valley) (DUP)]

Is it not the case that if drugs of that nature land in Northern Ireland, it is not a matter just of having an effective response to organised crime, but of the young lives that are being destroyed by the paramilitary organisations that continue to act as organised gangs, including in the constituency of the hon. Member for South Down (Ms Ritchie)?

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[Mr Campbell]

I thank my right hon. Friend for that point, which I want to come on to. The consequences of the failure to implement the National Crime Agency are catastrophic.

[Naomi Long]

The hon. Gentleman is being very generous in giving way. In a number of significant PSNI investigations at the moment, the key and pertinent criminal associates, their infrastructure and organisation are based outside Northern Ireland. The NCA is much better placed to take the lead on those issues because it obviously has an international reach, but it currently cannot do so. Does he agree that that not only compromises investigations in that it limits the role of the NCA, but that it stretches the PSNI’s resources at a time when they are already extensively stretched?

[Mr Campbell]

I thank the hon. Lady for that comment, which is very true. Only in the past two weeks has the Chief Constable indicated the scale of reductions in normal policing in Northern Ireland that result from the budgetary changes that he has to implement. That will further compound the issue.

Some six years ago, a consignment arrived, also via the Irish Republic, that totalled €700 million-worth of cocaine. That of course predated the National Crime Agency; it was when SOCA was in operation. I mention those drug operations for the reason given by the hon. Lady. These drugs are doing untold harm to people not just in Northern Ireland, but in the entire United Kingdom. The Republic of Ireland market would not have provided even a toehold for €700 million-worth of cocaine. The report on 7 November, when the haul was located, said that the vast bulk of the cocaine was bound for the United Kingdom market.

The problem does not just apply to a small part of the United Kingdom; it will be felt in every constituency across this United Kingdom. On the streets of our cities, young people will be sold dope or illegal substances that have come from the shores of the Irish Republic and through Northern Ireland to the GB market. There is therefore an onus on everyone, particularly the SDLP and Sinn Fein, to sign up to the implementation of the National Crime Agency. I must say that Sinn Fein may well have associates who benefit from the failure to implement the National Crime Agency. I fully accept it when the hon. Member for South Down (Ms Ritchie) says that the SDLP has no such hang-ups and no such associates, and that is all the more reason to sign up to the agency that will help to stop the problem.

[Bob Stewart (Beckenham) (Con)]

What my hon. Friend has just alluded to stirs me to ask: how many of the 160 gangs operating across the border into Northern Ireland does he estimate are linked to paramilitary organisations?

[Mr Campbell]

That is a very pertinent question. When that question has been put to the police, the response has generally been, “Very many of them”, although I have not seen any figures indicating exactly how many the police believe are so linked. Many paramilitary groups have stopped their so-called politically inspired campaign and have now moved on to money laundering, illegal fuel and, of course, drug smuggling.

[Mr Donaldson]

Will my hon. Friend add the misery of human trafficking to that list? As he is aware, the Assembly passed a Bill that has put Northern Ireland ahead of the rest of the United Kingdom in tackling human trafficking, but we have a back door through which this human misery and this crime is being perpetrated. We really need all the parties to sign up to closing that back door.

[Mr Campbell]

I thank my right hon. Friend for that intervention. He is absolutely right. Just this week, the Assembly has made further progress in the implementation of that legislation. That again is an issue with which the National Crime Agency could help us.

[Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)]

Further to the point that was made by the hon. Member for Beckenham (Bob Stewart), is it not fair to say that no criminal gang in Northern Ireland could operate without the say so of the paramilitaries on either side of the community?

[Mr Campbell]

It would be extremely difficult for an efficient organised criminal gang to operate in any part of Northern Ireland without at least the tacit support, acknowledgement and say so of the paramilitary groups on either side. Whether there is a specific connection, an endorsement or just an allowance for the gang to continue, that is certainly the case.

[Dr William McCrea (South Antrim) (DUP)]

Bearing in mind the seriousness of the implications of what we are discussing for all constituencies in Northern Ireland, is it not significant that the hon. Member for South Down (Ms Ritchie) has been left on her own? The hon. Member for Foyle (Mark Durkan), who is always here, and the leader of the SDLP are absent. Does that not send a message in itself?

[Mr Campbell]

I look forward to the full participation of all SDLP Members. I hope that they will appear before the conclusion of our deliberations.

To conclude, many members of the paramilitary groups, who were engaged for almost 30 years in brutality, murder, mayhem and destruction, have moved on to issues of a more financial nature, such as how they can glean their illegal and ill-gotten gains from various darker sides of society. The police are reasonably sure where and how those people operate, and are fairly confident that they can inhibit their activities. However, they can do so only when they have not just the full support of the entire community, which I am confident they have, but all the resources and manpower and womanpower they need to tackle such activity. The knowledge, expertise and information of the National Crime Agency will be a central part of that. It has knowledge of the international community and international policing. The two examples to which I have alluded are the tip of the iceberg. The €80 million last month and the €700 million six years ago were from just two operations that were apprehended. The police believe that many more operations are ongoing or have got through the net. The net needs to be tightened. The organisation that can help tighten it is the National Crime Agency.

I hope we will send a message today to peace-loving and law-abiding people in Northern Ireland and across the UK that the net is tightening. More importantly, we will send a message to the criminal gangs, the drug dealers, the human traffickers, those who break the law, those who depend on loopholes and those who depend on political parties that should know better allowing them to drive a coach and horses through those loopholes that their days are numbered.

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[David Simpson (Upper Bann) (DUP)]

The Belfast Telegraph got it right when, on 14 October, it stated:

“The opposition from the SDLP and Sinn Fein to the National Crime Agency operating in Northern Ireland would be farcical if it was not so serious.”

I repeat: it would be farcical if it was not so serious. The Police Service of Northern Ireland and the relevant authorities throughout Northern Ireland are doing their best to eradicate organised crime, but it is a well-known fact that anything from 140 to 180 gangs operate across the Province and into the Republic of Ireland—by the end of this debate, there could be 200—and the crux of the matter is that the National Crime Agency currently does not have sufficient powers to tackle the problems. Those problems include drug smuggling, human trafficking, money laundering, sexual exploitation, fuel laundering and many other crimes that cross international boundaries.

We have heard today of Lord Morrow’s success with the Human Trafficking and Exploitation (Further Provisions and Support for Victims) Bill in Northern Ireland. That legislation is ahead of its time and it represents a great success for Northern Ireland. I hope that it will help a lot of the individuals who are being trafficked. Unfortunately, however, there are still many people out there who will continue to commit this heinous crime. There is a lot of money to be made from it. We have three major industries in the world today: gun-running, human trafficking and drugs.

Some time ago, I started a forum in the schools in my constituency to assist with the issues of cyber-bullying and online pornography that were affecting young people. That has been successful and all the schools have taken it on board. However, these problems can lead to greater financial difficulty for the health service. Self-harm and suicide affect young people under pressure, and the criminal rogues are making life miserable for those who are trying to get on with their everyday lives. A criminal gang in my constituency that is involved in extortion has burnt 39 vehicles in one town this year alone, and damaged homes have made families’ lives miserable, yet the police do not have the resources to take effective action. As we have heard, Drew Harris, the deputy chief constable, recently told the Policing Board that about £13 million-worth of assets accrued by criminal gang bosses, mainly loyalist paramilitaries in east Belfast, cannot be seized because the PSNI does not have that power, as it resides solely with the NCA.

We know the position of the Social Democratic and Labour party. I hope and trust that today’s debate will challenge its conscience when it comes to the protection of children, which is more important than political views. We need to protect the young people and senior folk within our society—that is important. Sinn Fein, and where the money may be going for it, has been mentioned. In my constituency, Sinn Fein councillors have recently said, “The Brits will not dictate to us what we do on this,” and so we are back to the old tribal issue of republicanism and the Brits. That is the bottom line; they will not be dictated to. Unfortunately, it is time that Sinn Fein’s supporters stood up to the facts and, in places such as west Belfast, where families are being put under pressure and young people are being used in all ways, put pressure on to say, “Enough of this. We need to get it resolved.”

[Mr Gregory Campbell]

My hon. Friend touches on the important point that in every constituency, including those represented—or not represented—by Sinn Fein MPs and Members of the Legislative Assembly, there are young people who are under threat and being actively targeted by these gangs selling drugs to them. So Sinn Fein’s community, its supporters and its voters are suffering as a result of its opposition to this move.

[David Simpson]

My hon. Friend has made the point clearly: young people are being forced into drugs, prostitution and other activities. I have again recently visited REACT, an organisation that works from bandit country right up to parts of my constituency. It has highlighted to me the number of young people coming to it who are being forced by criminal gangs not only to take the drugs, but to sell them on the streets. We also have to deal with fuel laundering, whereby tens of millions of pounds are coming out of the British Exchequer and the ordinary individual families have to pay for that.

The situation is unacceptable and it has been ongoing—someone mentioned a time scale of 18 months. It is time that decisions were made on this. If that means the Government need to take action, they need to do so. The situation cannot continue, with young lives and older lives affected. It is extortion from one end to the other, and it cannot continue and must be resolved.

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[Ms Ritchie]

I thank the hon. Lady for her intervention. If I am allowed to make a little progress, I will be able to explain those things.

Let me also say at the outset that it was due only to the SDLP’s efforts in ongoing negotiations that others are now talking about accountability and oversight; it was because of our efforts that those things are now taking place. For the avoidance of doubt, let me say that nobody should gainsay or deny that. We are concerned about the lack of proper oversight mechanisms, and we are in discussions and negotiations with the Minister of Justice. Two weeks ago, during the debate on the issue in the Northern Ireland Assembly, he freely acknowledged that and took on board our concerns. I would like to highlight those—if I am allowed—as will my hon. Friend the Member for Foyle.

The SDLP is not opposed in principle to the NCA. We are opposed to violence of any kind, and we are opposed to child abuse and the other various matters that have been raised. However, I wish to raise certain issues. We have been given indications from Opposition Members and from DUP Members that questions have been raised as to the effectiveness of the Serious Organised Crime Agency and now the NCA. Why, despite the efforts of the PSNI, SOCA and other agencies on the island of Ireland, has almost nobody ever been before a criminal court in relation to such matters? For us to support the NCA it has a responsibility to us—to everybody—to prove that it will go after those fuel launderers. We have to see the evidence that it has worked heretofore. One of my colleagues, the former Minister of Environment, pursued many of these issues to do with national crime, through the Northern Ireland Environment Agency, with a measure of success, and he probably did not receive that much help from SOCA. So those issues have to be taken on board.

[Mr Gregory Campbell]

Will the hon. Lady give way?

[Ms Ritchie]

If I am allowed to make a little progress, I might be able to help the hon. Gentleman.

Let us consider what we need in order to make progress in these negotiations to a positive outcome and to have an organisation embedded with the principles of inclusivity, respect, accountability and other such issues. The hon. Gentleman never addressed the issue of accountability that I raised in my interventions. I hope that that is not because of glibness on the DUP’s part, and I am sure they will clarify that issue. I would like the Minister in today’s debate to work with the Minister of Justice in Northern Ireland to clarify: that accountability of the NCA is to the Chief Constable and to the Policing Board; that covert operations would take place only with the agreement of the Chief Constable and subject to the Regulation of Investigatory Powers Act 2000; and that issues of national intelligence would be carried through only for England and Wales.

[Mr Gregory Campbell]

Will the hon. Lady give way?

[Ms Ritchie]

If I may continue, I would be happy to give way in a minute. I wish to address a couple of other things that we see as being missing from the current NCA. It is further proposed in the helpful paper from the Minister of Justice in Northern Ireland that the conduct of an NCA officer comes within the remit of the police ombudsman. It is not, however, stipulated that the power would be enshrined in statute, although a commitment to that effect appears to have been given to the Policing Board—clarification could be given on that—or that the standard of conduct would, as a result of statute, be that of the PSNI code of ethics. In the latter case, there may be some difficulty in circumscribing an NCA officer by way of the PSNI code of ethics as it may conflict with that officer’s own code of conduct by which he or she is bound according to their contract of employment or service. In respect of covert powers and the remit of the Policing Board, it is proposed that the PSNI be accountable to the board for giving its agreement to the NCA’s operations. However, there may be an issue over the extent to which the board can hold the Chief Constable to account—for example, for giving agreement or for all that follows from that agreement.

Clearly, we have certain issues on which we need clarification. We call on the Minister to hold immediate discussions on those issues with the Minister of Justice in Northern Ireland. We will continue with those discussions because we support the principle of the NCA, but we are awaiting clarification of the issues around accountability and the oversight mechanism to ensure that everything is perfectly in order and that there is nothing untoward in relation to that organisation.

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[Jim Shannon]

I thank the hon. Lady for her intervention, but the fact is that the parties who have spoken for this matter are the parties that are moving forward. We are very happy to drag the SDLP along screaming to the process, if that is the way it has to be, and make it feel part of it. If the hon. Member for Beckenham (Bob Stewart) feels that things have moved forward that is great news, but we have to see the evidence. Accountability is here. We do not think there is any need for delay.

[Mr Gregory Campbell]

Does my hon. Friend agree that two things remain outstanding as of today? Even if the SDLP has moved, the point is that drug dealers, illegal fuel launderers and other criminal gangs are still able to operate without the sanction that the NCA could provide. Even if the SDLP eventually agrees, Sinn Fein will not agree. We are still left with that impasse.

[Jim Shannon]

My hon. Friend clearly puts the focus on the issue at hand. Unless the SDLP signs up to the accountability process already in place it will fail to convince any of us of the fullness of its potential.

My hon. Friend the Member for East Londonderry referred to drug dealers, and there are others who are classed as extremely dangerous: those involved in protection rackets, fuel laundering and drugs, whether legal or illegal. We need the NCA in place. We need its contribution. We need its experience and ability. We want it to go after everyone who is breaking the law and we want to make available the money for that to happen.

Members have referred to the fact that the NCA is not active in Northern Ireland because of nationalist intransigence. At the same time, we have the difficulty of welfare reform which has also restricted money. It is almost a double whammy: the nationalists say we cannot have the NCA and that we do not have the money to resource the policy fully either—nationalist intransigence on both counts.

Recent times have not been great for the NCA in terms of child sex abuse. Last week, the organisation had to make a public apology after the body tasked with tackling the most dangerous paedophiles in the UK sat on information about 2,345 potential abusers which had emerged from an operation carried out by Canadian police. We need to have the resources available and we need to ensure that all internet companies, the police and the Government do everything they can to make people more accountable.

It is important for anyone who has been a victim of child abuse to speak, particularly those who were placed in homes. Reference will be made to Kincora in an Adjournment debate later today, but I want to speak briefly on the vile abuse that took place in Rubane House in my Strangford constituency. The ongoing inquiry estimates that 200 of its 1,050 former residents have made allegations of serious sexual or physical abuse. The inquiry is ongoing, but we need the input of the NCA to deal with child sexual abuse across the whole of the United Kingdom. These cases are often—I mentioned the input from the Canadian police—not just provincial or national, but international. A total of 13 Northern Ireland institutions are being investigated. More scandals will come to light. We do not want paedophiles or criminal gangs using Northern Ireland as a backdoor to the United Kingdom and the rest of the world.

A recent investigation in the UK has resulted in 660 sex offenders being arrested. It was the biggest operation for more than a decade. That is fantastic news, but we need the NCA in place to ensure that those who think that Northern Ireland is a place where they can carry out their evil activities can be caught. As some have put it, the NCA has become a victim of its own success, because it has uncovered more than the courts can deal with. We have to ensure that that is not the case and be assured that our police and courts have the relevant resources to arrest and imprison these criminals. Each of us has a responsibility to make sure that this happens, so that people face justice and are no longer on our streets or a threat to our children.

Initiating the operation of the NCA in Northern Ireland will be a giant step in making criminal gangs accountable. Accountability is already in place. There is no acceptable excuse for nationalists to say no. They cannot pay lip service to the police and the rule of law, while at the same time standing against the operation of the NCA in Northern Ireland.