Jo Swinson
Main Page: Jo Swinson (Liberal Democrat - East Dunbartonshire)Enterprise and Regulatory Reform Bill
Jo Swinson Excerpts
The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Business, Innovation and Skills (Jo Swinson)
I beg to move, That this House disagrees with Lords amendment 35.
Madam Deputy Speaker
With this it will be convenient to discuss the following:
Lords amendments 36 to 38 and Government motion to disagree, and Government amendments (a) and (b) to words so restored to the Bill.
Lords amendment 39.
Lords amendment 40, Government motion to disagree, and Government amendments (a) to (h) in lieu, and amendments (i) and (ii) to Government amendments (a), (b) and (c) in lieu.
Jo Swinson
May I say what a great pleasure it is to see you back in the Chair after your time away, Madam Deputy Speaker? I am sure the whole House will wish to echo that sentiment.
As has already been discussed in this place and the other place, the measures in this Bill aim to promote long-term growth and reduce regulatory burdens on business. Consideration in the House of Lords has led to important changes to the Bill, the great majority of which the Government believe strengthen and improve it, and we will consider those changes when we discuss the second group of amendments. The first group of amendments deals with the few issues where the Government do not support the change proposed in the House of Lords. We have reflected carefully in the light of the strong views expressed and I will take each issue in turn.
As I outlined on Report, we want a strong, independent Equality and Human Rights Commission, and a great deal has already been achieved since we last debated that matter in the House. We have appointed a new chair of the EHRC, who has been welcomed by Members from all parties, and six new members to its board. We have announced a budget, agreed with the EHRC, to enable it to continue its important work.
Under the leadership of Baroness O’Neill, we are confident that the organisation will go from strength to strength, but for any organisation to be successful, it must have clarity of purpose. The general duty is not a core purpose; it is a much more vague and aspirational statement. Although I am sure that people can agree with the sentiments it expresses, it does not help the commission or anyone else to understand clearly, in a focused way, what it is there to do and, importantly, what it can achieve. That is why we are seeking to repeal the general duty. The change will not hinder the EHRC’s ability to fulfil its important duties and responsibilities.
We are also changing the commission’s monitoring duty to ensure that it reports on its core functions, rather than on the state of society generally. That will enable the EHRC to continue to promote equality of opportunity, tackle discrimination, and protect and promote human rights, but more effectively than before. It will also enable the EHRC to gain the that respect hon. Members want it to have as our equality body and national human rights institution.
Mrs Anne McGuire (Stirling) (Lab)
Will the hon. Lady explain why there is a contradiction between the EHRC’s core objectives and that aspiration?
Jo Swinson
The EHRC’s objectives are clearly outlined in sections 8 and 9 of the Equality Act 2006. As I have said, although section 3 of the Act and the general duty paint a broad overarching vision, they do not focus specifically on equality, diversity and human rights as outlined in sections 8 and 9, which is what the EHRC needs to focus on day to day.
The House should remember that the commission will still have the responsibility and duty to promote understanding of equality and diversity; to encourage good practice in relation to equality and diversity; to promote equality of opportunity; to promote awareness and understanding of rights under the Equality Acts; to enforce the Equality Acts; to work towards the elimination of unlawful discrimination and harassment; to promote the understanding of the importance of human rights; to encourage good practice in relation to human rights; to promote awareness, understanding and protection of human rights; and to encourage public authorities to comply with section 6 of the Human Rights Act 1998. Therefore, the EHRC duties that remain are significant and wide-ranging—its remit is wide and it has a huge amount of work to do—but they are not the broad, overarching and rather more vague aspirations outlined in the general duty.
Kate Green (Stretford and Urmston) (Lab)
I am disappointed that the Government are resisting Lords amendment 35. Is the Minister aware of the fact, and does she agree, that the general duty has considerable symbolic importance? Following the debate in the House of Lords, the EHRC this week acknowledged that symbolic importance as an indication of the emphasis we place on equality of opportunity.
Jo Swinson
I understand the hon. Lady’s disappointment and the arguments put forward in the other place. She is right to an extent that the debate has become largely symbolic. In a sense, I would argue that it has become purely symbolic. If we were writing the 2006 Act from the beginning and that long list of equality and human rights duties that I have just outlined, people would not say, “Those duties are not sufficient.” Everything that the EHRC wants to do can be done under the existing duties, so she is right that the debate is to some extent symbolic. I do not believe that our measure will have an impact on the day-to-day work of the commission.
Julian Smith (Skipton and Ripon) (Con)
To follow what the hon. Member for Stretford and Urmston (Kate Green) has said, I remind the House that John Wadham told the Public Bill Committee that he does not regard the change as an attack on the EHRC’s remit. There was no worry in that respect. Since that time, the EHRC made a vague and odd press statement, but John Wadham said that the change does not affect the philosophy, approach or goals of the organisation.
Jo Swinson
I take on board my hon. Friend’s point. We discussed on Report the EHRC council’s evidence to the Committee. As he says, repealing the general duty does not impact on those equalities and human rights duties. There is no suggestion that section 3 of the 2006 Act has any interpretive value in relation to other legislation, including that Act—it has no specific legal effect in and of itself. I understand the concerns, but I challenge hon. Members to suggest what concrete things the measure stops the EHRC doing. The EHRC has the powers and tools it needs to do its important work, which is how it should be.
Jo Swinson
I will give way to the hon. Lady, but then I want to make progress—I am conscious of what hon. Members have said about the importance of time.
Debbie Abrahams
I raised similar points on Second Reading. What does the hon. Lady think the impact will be on the international community’s view of the Government’s equality and human rights priorities? As many have stated, the international community could see the measure as a downgrading of the Government’s equality and human rights priorities.
Jo Swinson
The hon. Lady raises an important point and gives me the opportunity to put firmly on the record the importance that the Government attach to the EHRC as the national human rights institution, and the importance of the dialogue and discussions we have had with the International Co-ordinating Committee of National Human Rights Institutions, which will continue. It is vital that the EHRC maintain its A-rated status in that regard. I am therefore asking the House to reject Lords amendments 35 and 36, but I hope I have provided reassurance that the EHRC will be able to fulfil its important role in our society.
Jo Swinson
I am sorry, but I did say that I wanted to move on after taking that last intervention.
We recognise the strength of feeling and the views expressed on caste in another place, and the importance of the issue. It is important to put it on the record that the Government recognise that caste prejudice remains in the UK, not least as outlined in the 2010 National Institute of Economic and Social Research report. It is important to recognise that the problem is entirely contained within Hindu and Sikh communities, which is different from other forms of prejudice and discrimination, which can be much more widespread in society. That is why we are working with those communities to address the problem through an education programme supported by leading community organisations. That will be backed up by further examination by the EHRC, which reports later this year. Last month, the Under-Secretary of State for Women and Equalities, my hon. Friend the Member for Maidstone and The Weald (Mrs Grant), outlined the extra funding that had been made available for the “Talk for a Change” pilot project, so we can see how attitudes could be changed within those key communities.
Jeremy Corbyn (Islington North) (Lab)
Money for education and understanding is welcome and important. I am glad that the Government recognise that caste discrimination is a problem, but in doing so, why does the Minister not take this opportunity to mention it in law? Some who have tried to drag cases through employment tribunals and others have had great difficulty because caste prejudice is not mentioned specifically in law. If we understand that there is a problem with a form of prejudice, we should try to legislate as well as educate to eliminate it.
Jo Swinson
I appreciate the point that the hon. Gentleman makes. It is a complex issue, as the previous Government also recognised. There is not one voice from the communities about the right way to tackle this issue, or whether legislation is the best solution to the problems that have been identified. That is why, when the Equality Act 2010 was passed, the previous Government took a power to enable them to introduce caste as a characteristic protected against discrimination through secondary legislation. But the communities are very concerned about the possibility of increasing stigma by using legislation to try to deal with this issue—
Richard Fuller (Bedford) (Con)
My hon. Friend’s predecessor as Equalities Minister was clear that the evidence was compelling and that the Government should act. Because the Government have not acted, as the hon. Member for Islington North (Jeremy Corbyn) pointed out, cases of caste discrimination that people would like to bring are being held up. Cannot the Minister understand that the Government need to make a decision today to recognise caste discrimination and put it in legislation?
Jo Swinson
I thank my hon. Friend for his intervention. We have spoken before about this issue, because it affects many of his constituents. It does him great credit that he speaks out for them and what they would like to see happen. In terms of the evidence of whether legislation is required at this point, we are not yet convinced that it is the right way forward. Some discrimination cases can already be brought under employment law. Some cases of the operation of prejudice would fall outside discrimination law, but might be able to be brought under other forms of law, such as constructive dismissal legislation. The NIESR report contained a range of cases, many of which do not actually fall within the scope of discrimination law, such as prejudice within society outside of the workplace or the sale of goods and services. Therefore the number of cases that would be potentially covered is quite small. A range of groups has expressed significant concerns about legislation on this issue, including many Sikh and Hindu groups, some of which represent low castes, such as Gujarati Arya Kshatriya Mahasabha UK, the Sikh Council UK, the National Council of Hindu Temples UK, the Rita Trust, the Hindu Forum of Britain, Vishwa Hindu Parishad UK, the National Hindu Students Forum UK and Hindu Swayamsevak Sangh UK. All those organisations have expressed their concern about legislating, and we need to listen to their voices.
Andrew Stunell (Hazel Grove) (LD)
I have a lot of time and respect for the work that my hon. Friend is doing on this, but there is real disappointment in the House that the Government are not proceeding on this. It is not exclusively a matter for the Hindu community or one that should be decided by the leadership of Hindu organisations, which—if I may say so—may in some cases be facilitating the caste system here in the UK. We need a robust response from the Government very quickly.
Jo Swinson
My right hon. Friend makes an important point about organisations that represent different parts of the Hindu and Sikh communities, and that is why it is important to point out that they do not only represent high castes: some of them represent low castes as well, and there is concern across the spectrum. It is a serious issue that requires serious consideration, and the Government are not ruling out legislation. We have the power to legislate under secondary legislation: what I am saying is that we are not convinced today that that is necessary.
John McDonnell (Hayes and Harlington) (Lab)
I moved the compromise amendment that was accepted by the whole House. It provided that the Government would legislate if they could identify incidents of caste discrimination. The report identifies such incidents. It was not a matter of the form of legislation: it was a commitment to legislate. The Government are taking an extreme step backwards from what was agreed by the whole House in 2010, when it was opposed by those same organisations that the Minister has listed today. Traditional Hindus opposed Mahatma Ghandi’s attempt to outlaw caste discrimination in 1933.
Jo Swinson
I thank the hon. Gentleman for his intervention and the work he has done on this issue over many years. I reiterate some of the concerns that we have heard from those groups. For example, GAKM UK, an organisation that represents a community officially recognised as low caste in India, fears that by enacting this provision, Parliament could undo all the work done by communities over the past 20 years to try to remove the differentiation by caste in all aspects of life. I am not saying that these are not important issues or that ultimately it would not be helpful to enact the provision, I am saying that we need to proceed with great caution, because the communities affected have significant differences of view. That is why we want to ensure that the EHRC makes a further assessment of the views and evidence on this issue, on which it will report back later this year. The Government have already said, through the work and the statement of the Under-Secretary of State for Women and Equalities, my hon. Friend the Member for Maidstone and The Weald, and through discussions in the other place, that if the assessment shows that we need to legislate, the option remains open to us.
Simon Hughes (Bermondsey and Old Southwark) (LD)
I have raised this issue with my hon. Friend. The amendments, on a general duty of equality and on caste discrimination, both had very large majorities in the House of Lords, and I am very sympathetic to them. Bluntly, it seems to me that the only way for the Government to get themselves off the hook is to ask the Joint Committee on Human Rights, which consists of Members from both Houses and all parties, to look urgently at both matters and make recommendations. I sit on that Committee and could make sure that that happens. I think the Committee would recommend that they be supported. I wonder whether the Minister is willing to go down that road.
Jo Swinson
It is not for the Government to instruct Joint Committees to undertake particular investigations.
As I was saying, the reason for caution on the part of the Government relates to a lack of evidence. The NIESR report is clear about the lack of evidence. It states that there is no clear evidence on the extent of caste discrimination and whether it is changing in the UK. Further evidence would therefore certainly be helpful in assisting the Government’s decision making. In addition to what the EHRC is doing, the Government intend to conduct a full consultation and publish a report on its outcome. If the evidence shows clearly that legislation is the right way forward, then, as I have said, powers already exist in law to extend those protections to cover caste by means of a statutory instrument.
Dr Sarah Wollaston (Totnes) (Con)
The UK is a signatory to the convention on the elimination of all forms of racial discrimination, and clearly there is a feeling that this is a form of race discrimination. Has the Minister listened to representations from women’s groups? Women may have an additional vulnerability to discrimination within communities.
Jo Swinson
My hon. Friend raises an important point on whether this is a form of race discrimination. I think that the law shows that in some instances it may well be that cases could be brought under race discrimination when there is an issue of caste, although not necessarily in every case, which is why this discussion has arisen. She is also right to make the point about women’s groups. My hon. Friend the Member for Maidstone and The Weald, who leads on this issue, has met a wide range of groups and organisations representing different sides, including women. It is important to ensure that all people in the community are considered.
Taking the step of legislating would mean that every employer, service provider and public authority across Great Britain would need to familiarise themselves with new legal obligations, despite the very low chance of ever being faced with a case of caste discrimination. That is why we have developed an educational programme. The EHRC has offered to complete its examination into how best to address caste prejudice and discrimination, and we will be consulting together for views across the communities. On that basis, I hope the House will agree that it is not appropriate at this time to agree with the other place on amendment 37.
Jo Swinson
I want to make a little progress, because I am conscious of time.
Amendments 38 and 39 focus on health and safety. Addressing the concerns about strict liability for breach of health and safety duties is an important element of the Government’s wider reforms to tackle both the perception of a compensation culture and the damaging effect it has on sensible health and safety management and business growth—concerns consistently reported by businesses.
As was outlined on Report, the purpose of this reform is to establish the important principle that a responsible employer should not be liable to a civil claim for compensation where they have taken all reasonable steps and have not been negligent. The substantive law is unaffected. Criminal offences and their enforcement will not be affected, and employees will continue to have the right to bring claims for compensation where they can prove their employer has been negligent.
The Government do not believe that it is justifiable to hold employers liable for incidents outside of their control that they could not have reasonably prevented. The modern framework of law and supporting evidence and guidance means that employees are in a much better position than they have been historically to demonstrate whether their employer is at fault, and that will remain relevant as evidence in assessing what employers should have known and whether an employer’s behaviour was reasonable. That reform will mean that in future there will be a consistent approach to civil litigation across all health and safety legislation. This is simpler for all to understand and will therefore have a greater impact in increasing employers’ confidence to do the right things to protect their employees and to develop and grow their business.
We have proposed an amendment in lieu of amendment 38 and proposed that the House should agree with the other place in its amendment 39, which, as well as reinstating the main provision, would also reintroduce amendments agreed in Grand Committee in response to points raised by the Delegated Powers and Regulatory Reform Committee. The Committee took the view that a power to extend the policy to wider health and safety legislation was too wide, and the Government have agreed to remove it.
I shall now turn to letting and managing agents. Many letting agents act lawfully and provide a good service, but there is a minority whose service quality is unacceptable—no doubt Members on both sides of the House have heard tales from their constituents where this has been the case. Consumer protection legislation covers many of the problematic practices, but enforcement is patchy, particularly in less serious cases. Also, existing legislation does not give consumers direct access to redress.
The noble Lady Baroness Hayter of Kentish Town said in the other place that her amendment simply required agents to sign up to a redress scheme. In response, this Government amendment gives the Secretary of State the power to make an order requiring letting and managing agents of privately rented and residential leasehold homes to belong to a redress scheme. The Government will consult on the detail, taking into account the recommendations of the Communities and Local Government Committee Select Committee and the Office of Fair Trading.
Sir Peter Bottomley (Worthing West) (Con)
I look forward, if I can, to contributing to this debate later. In the consultation, will the Government consider setting minimum standards, adopting other codes, such as the code for the Royal Institution of Chartered Surveyors? Will the consultation also include disciplinary procedures and will there be an improvement to the protection of leaseholder funds?
Jo Swinson
I know that the hon. Gentleman has tabled amendments and is keen to press the Government on these issues. It is important that consumers have access to redress where letting and managing agents do not act as they should. Obviously, the specifics of the consultation have not yet been drawn up, but I am sure that, through Hansard, his suggestions will be well-received. I know that the Minister for Housing, my hon. Friend the Member for Hertford and Stortford (Mr Prisk), will be happy to meet him to discuss his concerns in more detail in order to ensure that we get this right. Taking this power in the Bill will give us an opportunity to ensure that we get the details right. I hope I can reassure him, however, when I say that my hon. Friend the Minister for Housing is keen to ensure that we make speedy progress, while still getting the details right.
Mr Clive Betts (Sheffield South East) (Lab)
I thank the Minister for the letter she sent to me, as Chair of the Communities and Local Government Committee. As she knows, we are conducting an inquiry into the private rented sector and are taking evidence on letting agents and proposals to change regulations in a number of areas, but I can assure her that we will, in particular, consider the details of the redress scheme and I hope therefore that we will be able to inform the Government before they consider their secondary legislation in detail.
Jo Swinson
I thank the hon. Gentleman for his kind offer. No doubt, his Committee’s work on this matter will be of great value to the Government when we put together the consultation and work out how to deliver the framework—it will not be a single scheme; there could be a variety of schemes—to ensure that tenants have access to redress.
The Government intend to introduce the secondary legislation as soon as reasonably possible, but it is right that this be an order-making power, because it will give us the flexibility that comes from consultation and the due processes of policy making and scrutiny.
John Healey (Wentworth and Dearne) (Lab)
The Lords amendment tabled by Baroness Hayter simply extended the estate agents system of regulation, which has been in place for more than 30 years, to letting and managing agents. It includes a redress scheme, but goes wider, including to cover some of the concerns that the hon. Member for Worthing West (Sir Peter Bottomley) has raised. Why do the Government not simply accept that amendment?
Jo Swinson
The right hon. Gentleman raises a good point, but there is also a good answer. The Government are proposing an amendment in lieu of Lords amendment 40, which, as he said, subjects letting and management agents to the Estate Agents Act 1979. The amendment made to the Bill at present would not properly achieve the effect of requiring redress. It would impose undue regulatory burdens by making such provision much broader. The requirements of the 1979 Act are rightly onerous, because purchasing a house is something that people might do only once or twice in their lifetimes and it involves a huge sum of money. There is therefore a strong case for significant levels of regulation, which is not made in quite the same way for letting agents, where redress is the most important element.
Jo Swinson
If the right hon. Gentleman is unsatisfied when I have finished answering his intervention, he may have another bite of the cherry. The Government’s other concern about Lords amendment 40 is that it does not work with the devolution settlement, because the 1979 Act is a piece of UK-wide legislation, whereas housing and letting issues are devolved to the devolved Administrations. The amendment would therefore cause a significant difficulty with them. I presume that is an inadvertent effect of the amendment on the part of its movers in the other place; none the less, we would not want it to make it into the Bill.
John Healey
I am somewhat disturbed by that response and the suggestion that the homes that people buy are somehow more important than other people’s homes. We are dealing with people’s homes. Almost 9 million households now rent in the private sector, which includes 1 million families with children. They require some assurance—some security and basic rights in the market that they do not have at the moment—which a redress scheme on its own will not provide.
Jo Swinson
I understand what the right hon. Gentleman says; we may have to agree to disagree on this matter. He is absolutely right to highlight the fact that we are dealing with people’s homes, which is why this measure is so important. Incidentally, it is also something that his party did not see fit to introduce in 13 years in government. This Government are righting the situation by making amendments to ensure that there is a redress scheme. Indeed, when the Lords amendment we are discussing was introduced in the other place, that is the argument that was made and that is what was said was most important. I agree that a redress scheme is important to ensure that where there is a problem, tenants can have an avenue for redress.
Indeed, such a scheme has two functions, because it is not just about ensuring that when somebody has a problem, they can get redress. The very fact that agents have to sign up to redress schemes is in itself a driver of behaviour to ensure less wrongdoing in the first place. More widely, residential leasehold matters are being taken forward separately by the Department for Communities and Local Government in the round tables it is conducting. The noble Lady Baroness Gardner of Parkes raised that issue in the other place.
I hope I have been able to outline the Government’s position on the Lords amendments and provide some reassurance to Members of this House.
Mr Chuka Umunna (Streatham) (Lab)
It is good to see you back in your place, Madam Deputy Speaker.
Before I turn to the four issues covered by this group of amendments, it is worth revisiting the supposed purpose of the Bill. It is supposed to be an enterprise Bill that will generate growth. It was referred to as a Christmas tree of a Bill when it left us, but it has since become something of a forest.
Let me deal with each of the four issues in turn. The first is the Government’s move to repeal the general duty for the Equality and Human Rights Commission contained in section 3 of the Equality Act 2006. The Lords wished to reverse the Government’s move to repeal section 3 of the 2006 Act and we agree with them. The general duty sets out the mission and vision of the commission. It is worth repeating that duty, which is for the commission to encourage and support
“the development of a society in which…people’s ability to achieve their potential is not limited by prejudice or discrimination…there is respect for and protection of each individual’s human rights…there is respect for the dignity and worth of each individual…each individual has an equal opportunity to participate in society, and…there is mutual respect between groups based on understanding and valuing of diversity…equality and human rights.”
The Government wish to repeal all of that as part of their red tape challenge, on the basis that it is a
“vague, unnecessary and obsolete provision from the Equality Act 2006”,
as the Minister put it in her letter to me yesterday. I could not disagree with her more.
I made the point on Report that this is not red tape. Vision and mission are important. The reason that the Government have failed on all manner of fronts is that they lack vision and mission. As Baroness Campbell, who sponsored the amendment in the Lords, said, the duty imports the cultural and ethical principles of equality and human rights into the commission’s remit. It makes it clear that the commission is there not just to enforce rules but to change culture.
Personally, I believe that we as a country have made a great deal of progress in this regard since I grew up here and since members of my family arrived here from abroad. However, Baroness Campbell also said:
“We would not wish to risk slipping back to the time before the Stephen Lawrence inquiry, but if Section 3 goes and the equality duty is weakened or lost shortly after, I feel that is precisely where we will be heading.”—[Official Report, House of Lords, 4 March 2013; Vol. 743, c. 1278.]
Indeed, Doreen Lawrence has resolutely opposed the removal of section 3. Baroness Campbell enjoyed overwhelming support from most of the others who spoke on this issue in the Lords, and numerous others outside Parliament have objected to the repeal, fearing that the changes will result in a much weaker body. Those who have objected include Justice, the Fawcett Society, Mind, the Refugee Council and the Equality Trust.
Having listened to the arguments on this matter in both Houses and outside Parliament, the commission itself has now said that unless the Government can provide additional robust reasons for removing the general duty—which they have not done—the case for removing the Lords amendments in the Commons will not have been made. The commission therefore continues to support the retention of the general duty and the maintenance of the position established by the Lords. I put it to the Minister that if the commission is content to support the retention of the duty—which is doing no harm; indeed, it is doing quite the opposite—why does she think that she knows better?
Let us not forget that the Government are not only seeking to water down the commission’s remit; they have also cut its budget by more than 60%. The cut was so great that the United Nations High Commissioner for Human Rights was moved to write to the Government in June and July last year to express concerns.
Simon Hughes
I say to the Under-Secretary of State for Business, Innovation and Skills, my hon. Friend the Member for East Dunbartonshire (Jo Swinson) that I, like many of our colleagues, support the retention of the general duty on equality. I understand the difficulty that she has in a coalition Government, in that she has to try to reflect different views, but I hope that, whatever decision is reached today, she will be able to persuade her colleagues that we should retain that duty rather than remove it.
On the caste issue, I offered a suggestion earlier on the way forward. If the Government cannot accept the amendment to make caste a basis for discrimination—which I am persuaded that we ought to support—I hope that they will at least give Parliament an early opportunity to introduce secondary legislation to allow the provision to be added to legislation this year.
Jo Swinson
I thank my right hon. Friend the Member for Bermondsey and Old Southwark (Simon Hughes) for what must be one of the shortest speeches of his life. With the leave of the House, I shall respond to some of the points that he and others have made, and I genuinely welcome the opportunity to do so.
The shadow Secretary of State, the hon. Member for Streatham (Mr Umunna), began by accusing the Government of making a U-turn on lettings. He failed, however, to point out his own party’s U-turn on that issue. The proposals in the Government amendment for a redress scheme bear a striking similarity to an amendment that was tabled under the previous Government by my hon. Friend the Member for Hertford and Stortford (Mr Prisk) and supported by the Conservatives and the Liberal Democrats. It would have introduced a redress scheme, but the Labour Government voted against it. That is why we are bringing forward the amendment today. It is a much more sensible provision than the one that was tabled in the other place, and it will give redress to consumers who are unfortunate enough to be the victims of letting and management agents who are not acting as they should.
The right hon. Member for Stirling (Mrs McGuire) asked where people should go for help in the absence of the EHRC helpline, and I am happy to draw her attention to the Equality Advisory Support Service that has been set up instead. Anyone who needs advice on these issues can ring the service on 0808 800 0082. That service is still available, although it is no longer supplied by the EHRC. It also works closely with the Commission to ensure that general information is passed back to inform the work of the service.
My hon. Friend the Member for Reading West (Alok Sharma) made a powerful speech on the question of caste. He was right to highlight the complexity of the issue. He also asked for confirmation that the Government were not entirely closed to the idea of legislation. I am happy to give him that confirmation, as I said earlier, and indeed as has been said in the other place. The issue is about ensuring that we get the right response. We recognise that, as the EHRC gathers the evidence for the assessment it is undertaking this year, it might ultimately recommend a view that involves legislation.
My hon. Friend the Member for Worthing West (Sir Peter Bottomley) has tabled amendments to deal with various issues, particularly a code of practice for redress. The Government consultation will of course include consideration of how the redress mechanism should operate—