John Healey
Main Page: John Healey (Labour - Rawmarsh and Conisbrough)Department Debates - View all John Healey's debates with the Ministry of Defence
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Kevin Bonavia (Stevenage) (Lab)
The Secretary of State for Defence (John Healey)
Mr Speaker, the House does indeed join in your sentiments towards all those who are suffering as a result of the attack at Bondi Beach. I know the whole House will also join me in offering condolences to the family and comrades of Lance Corporal George Hooley, who died in a tragic accident last week in Ukraine. He served our nation in distant and dangerous lands, and he did so with honour, courage and distinction. He was a natural, gifted leader who lost his life in the cause of freedom and peace.
Our historic defence investment comes with a fundamentally new approach. The defence dividend is already boosting British industry, British jobs and British communities. We have launched a £770 million defence industrial strategy to drive innovation, create British jobs and boost British skills. Today, we are announcing the defence technical excellence colleges competition, which has gone live, backed by £50 million. It will help us build the skills needed to tackle the threat posed by Russia and other adversaries.
Dame Nia Griffith
When Jodrell Bank celebrated its 80th anniversary, we heard lots about its contribution to science and its 150,000 visitors per year, so does the Secretary of State share my excitement about the job opportunities that may result from repurposing Cawdor barracks in Pembrokeshire as a deep space advanced radar capability? Will he meet me to discuss job opportunities for manufacturers in my constituency resulting from that project, from the project for a new development site for the Windracers drone, and from other defence projects?
John Healey
I do indeed recognise my hon. Friend’s excitement, as she puts it, about the opportunities created by the deep space advanced radar capability, the new drone developments and projects that we will bring to Wales. As we make defence an engine for growth, we are also putting the UK at the leading edge of innovation in NATO. I can announce today that in its first year, UK Defence Innovation will invest over £140 million in new drone and counter-drone systems to protect the UK homeland and allies in the face of increasing Russian drone incursions. That is backing British small and medium-sized enterprises, British micro-SMEs and British universities.
Andrew Ranger
As the Secretary of State outlined, the new defence growth deals announced earlier this year promise exciting opportunities, particularly for young people entering high-skill engineering and new apprenticeship roles. North Wales already hosts world-class defence firms, such as Teledyne Qioptiq; what benefits, especially for economic growth and opportunity, can my Wrexham constituency and north Wales more widely expect as those deals are rolled out?
John Healey
We are working with the Welsh Government, Welsh industry, companies like those that my hon. Friend mentioned, and Welsh academics and universities to work out the dimensions of a Wales defence growth deal. It will be one of five growth deals backed by £250 million in this Parliament. New drone technology autonomy will be the focus of this new defence growth deal.
Gareth Snell
When the previous Government slashed defence spending by £12 billion in their first five years, it left the defence of our nation hollowed out and underfunded. Now, Stoke-on-Trent and our world-leading ceramics sector, which makes vital components for aircraft, submarines and ships, stand ready to help rebuild the defence of our nation. Can the Minister set out how the Government’s largest sustained increase in defence spending will benefit companies and create jobs in my Stoke-on-Trent constituency?
John Healey
I can indeed. My hon. Friend is right: not only is this the largest sustained increase in defence spending since the end of the cold war—spending committed by this Government—and not only are we delivering 2.5% of GDP for defence three years earlier than anyone expected, but this Government also said that we would direct more of our British defence investment directly to British-based businesses, and we are. In the last year, 86% of defence investment has gone to British-based businesses, which is 6% more in real terms than in the preceding year, under the last Government; in other words, it is an above-inflation increase.
Kevin Bonavia
As the Secretary of State knows from visiting my constituency, Stevenage hosts a thriving defence and space sector, with more than a quarter of satellites in space built in our town. Next month, Airbus Defence and Space will open Launchpad, a new facility in Stevenage giving small and medium-sized enterprises and start-ups space to work and develop technologies. Can the Secretary of State confirm that our innovative primes and SMEs will receive proper attention when the defence industrial plan is implemented?
John Healey
I can indeed. My hon. Friend is right: his constituency hosts not only some important big UK defence primes, but many very small innovative firms. That is why, as a new Government, we said that we would set a new target for the proportion of defence investment going directly to British SMEs. We set up a new SME growth centre to help them deal with Government, which has previously been too difficult.
Sir Edward Leigh (Gainsborough) (Con)
I congratulate the Secretary of State on his efforts so far, but our efforts are still puny compared with those made when there was last a major threat, in the 1930s. In 1933, we spent just 2.2% of GDP on defence. Remember George Lansbury, the leader of the Labour party, who wanted to abolish the RAF altogether? By 1938, we were spending a massive 7%. Will the right hon. Gentleman commit himself to a whole new gearing-up of our efforts? He could start by recommissioning the RAF bases that were open in the 1930s, but have now been closed, such as RAF Scampton.
John Healey
The right hon. Gentleman is right to point to the recent record—the 14 years of hollowing out and underfunding of Britain’s armed forces that my hon. Friend the Member for Stoke-on-Trent Central (Gareth Snell) mentioned. I am proud of this Government’s investment of an extra £5 billion in defence in the first year, and our commitment to reach 2.5% of GDP by 2027. Our ambition is to reach 3% in the next Parliament, and alongside 31 NATO allies, we have signed up to spending 5% by 2035 on core defence and security, including national security.
Dr Andrew Murrison (South West Wiltshire) (Con)
Most of our allies and our industrial competitors have a system of offsetting to support their domestic defence capability, economy and jobs, and traditionally this country has had global by default. When will we see the detail in the defence industrial strategy that states that the Government intend to bring forward a programme of offsetting to match our competitors?
John Healey
I am interested to hear that observation from the right hon. Gentleman, who of course was a Defence Minister for several of the 14 years during which his Government never moved to introduce any sort of offsetting policy. We are consulting on that now. We think offsetting has an important role to play in Britain’s future and the future of British industry. The consultation closes in the new year, and we aim to make announcements soon thereafter.
Stuart Anderson (South Shropshire) (Con)
The world is rearming and rebuilding the defence industrial base at a rapid pace, and it is fair to say that the UK is starting to fall behind some of our NATO allies. Does the Secretary of State believe that the spending planned for 2027 to 2030 and onwards meets our needs and prepares us for war, should it arise?
John Healey
I do indeed. The hon. Gentleman knows as much about defence as anyone else in this House, and I pay tribute to him for his work on the NATO Parliamentary Assembly delegation. The commitment this Government made in our first year to increasing defence spending by the largest sustained amounts since the end of the cold war is an historic move. Our commitment, alongside NATO allies, to increase to 5% of GDP what we put towards national security is part of strengthening the NATO deterrent and NATO defence; and our strategic defence review allows us to map out a way of making our forces more ready to fight and better able to deter.
Ian Roome (North Devon) (LD)
We were told that the defence investment plan would be available before the Christmas recess. What day this week will it be announced?
John Healey
We are working flat out between now and the end of the year to finalise the defence investment plan. Even though the hon. Gentleman is a new Member of this House, he will appreciate, from serving on the Defence Committee, the scale of the decisions that we need to make. He will also appreciate the scale of the problems that we face, including those to do with a programme of the last Government’s that over-committed, and was underfunded and unsuited to meeting the threats that we will face in the future.
James Cartlidge (South Suffolk) (Con)
On behalf of the Opposition, I join you in expressing our total condemnation of the horrific Bondi Beach terrorist attack, Mr Speaker. We must stand united in this House against antisemitism in all its forms. May I also offer our condolences to all affected both at Bondi and at Brown University, and to the family and friends of Lance Corporal George Hooley? We echo the Secretary of State’s sentiments about his service to our country.
I echo the question from the hon. Member for North Devon (Ian Roome). It is a very simple and specific question. Will the defence investment plan be published before the rise of the House on Thursday: yes or no?
John Healey
The answer is simple, and it is the same one I gave to the hon. Member for North Devon (Ian Roome). We are working flat out between now and the end of the year to finalise the defence investment plan. The shadow Secretary of State of all people—having been responsible for deep problems, and programmes beset by deep-running failures, such as Ajax—will appreciate the scale of the challenges we face.
James Cartlidge
Is the Secretary of State seriously saying that he does not know his diary for the rest of the week? He could ask one of the other Ministers on the Front Bench, or one of the special advisers or officials. Surely he knows whether later this week—on Tuesday, Wednesday or Thursday—he will be giving the most important defence statement of the year. It is extraordinary that he does not.
To remind the House, in June the Secretary of State promised from the Dispatch Box that the defence investment plan would be
“completed and published in the autumn.”—[Official Report, 2 June 2025; Vol. 768, c. 63.]
It is already late—just like the strategic defence review, the defence industrial strategy and the housing strategy. Does that not illustrate perfectly why the Defence Committee said that when it comes to war readiness, Labour is moving at a “glacial pace”?
John Healey
The House will know to take no lessons from the right hon. Gentleman. When he was in government, his munitions strategy was often promised and never published. His drone strategy had more pictures than pages—and no funding. His Government’s defence funding plan was published as an election gimmick just weeks before the election and was never delivered in 14 years. We are working flat out between now and the end of the year to finalise the work on the defence investment plan.
James MacCleary (Lewes) (LD)
Does the Secretary of State agree that now, at a time of war, is precisely the moment for the UK to work with our European allies, even as Putin tries to divide us? If so, can he confirm that the UK rejected access to the €150 billion EU SAFE—Security Action for Europe—defence fund, at a proposed cost of about £2 billion, which is the same amount that the previous Government paid for access to the Horizon fund? Can he set out whether that is the correct figure, and explain whether his Department has estimated how much investment and industrial benefit could have flowed to the UK defence sector through our participation, boosting both our growth and our security, and that of our closest neighbours?
John Healey
We signed the European Union security and defence partnership in May. We committed ourselves to negotiating with the European Union for access to the SAFE funding arrangements. From the start, we recognised that there would need to be a financial contribution from the UK, but we also said from the start that SAFE needed to be good value for money for British taxpayers and British industry. It did not meet those tests. We were unable to reach a deal with the European Union, but we will continue to back Great British defence industrial firms as they sell into Europe, and we will strike bilateral deals that allow us to do a great deal more beyond the SAFE programme in the years to come.
Greg Smith (Mid Buckinghamshire) (Con)
Peter Fortune (Bromley and Biggin Hill) (Con)
The Secretary of State for Defence (John Healey)
This summer, the UK joined all other 31 NATO nations in agreeing the new NATO benchmark of 5% spending on national security by 2035. That followed this Government’s announcement of the largest sustained increase in defence spending since the end of the cold war.
Greg Smith
I am grateful to the Secretary of State for that answer, but it is curious to see what is and is not in the Red Book from the Budget we just had. Page 88 shows in intricate detail just how big the welfare budget will get as a result of the scrapping of the two-child benefit cap, but there is no such analysis anywhere in the Red Book of defence spending. Will he set out clearly at the Dispatch Box when the UK will hit the domestic 3% target, and when we will ultimately get to that 5% target? In which financial year will that be?
John Healey
We have committed to the target of 5% by 2035, like all 31 other allies. This Government have already put in an extra £5 billion in the first year and will hit 2.6% by 2027—three years earlier than anyone expected. We have an ambition for 3% in the next Parliament. The rising profile of defence investment over the next decade puts an end to 14 years of the British armed forces being hollowed out and underfunded under Tory Governments.
Peter Fortune
It was troubling to hear—unless I misheard the answer to my hon. Friend the Member for Mid Buckinghamshire (Greg Smith)—that the Secretary of State can talk with exactitude about the future of welfare spending, but not of defence spending. I remind him that the last time a Government spent 3% on defence was in 1996, and it was a Conservative Government. He is eloquent, but I would like him to be exact. When specifically—in which financial year—can we expect to hit 3% on defence spending?
John Healey
If the hon. Member wants to trade records, his Government had 14 years to raise defence spending; it falls to this Government to raise it back to 2.5%—the level it was at in 2010, when Labour was last in government—and we will hit 3% in the next Parliament.
Derek Twigg (Widnes and Halewood) (Lab)
I record my thanks and appreciation to the Secretary of State and his ministerial team for the work they are doing to improve our defence capabilities and leadership in NATO and Europe, as well as on the defence industrial base. We have heard from Conservative Members, who of course are responsible for the massive underspending on defence. However, we have to move on from that. Given the threats that we face, today and in the coming months, from Russia and other adversaries, it is clear that we need to accelerate our spending on defence as soon as possible. Will the Secretary of State do all he can to ensure that we get more resources into defence, so that we can maintain our leadership position in Europe, and so that our armed forces are fit to deal with the threats that we face?
John Healey
We are doing exactly what my hon. Friend urges me to do. He, like me, will be proud of the fact that the Labour Government have produced a strategic defence review—a landmark shift in defence to make us more warfighting-ready—a defence industrial strategy that will make defence an engine for growth in this country, and a housing strategy that puts an end to the worst ever Tory privatisation and pumps £9 billion into a generational renewal of our forces’ military housing, which has already started. This Labour Government are delivering for defence, and delivering for Britain.
Emma Lewell (South Shields) (Lab)
Allies rightly agreed that up to 1.5% of GDP would go towards civil preparedness and resilience measures, but public support for our current commitments—let alone for mobilisation in a crisis—does not meet Government assumptions. Will my right hon. Friend say how he plans to address that, so that we fully meet our article 3 obligations?
John Healey
I will. My hon. Friend, who serves on the Defence Committee and did in the previous Parliament, will remember that total spending on defence in the last year of the last Government was just under £54 billion. She will know that this year and next year, it is set to be over £65 billion. She will see the increase in defence spending, she will recognise the importance of making that commitment, and she will recognise the value of the strategic defence review in setting the vision for transforming our forces, so that they are more ready to warfight, and better able to deter.
Fred Thomas (Plymouth Moor View) (Lab)
Sir Julian Smith (Skipton and Ripon) (Con)
The Secretary of State for Defence (John Healey)
During 2025, the Labour Government have been delivering for defence and for Britain, with the largest increase in defence spending since the end of the cold war, the largest level of military support for Ukraine, the largest pay increase for forces personnel in 20 years, the largest investment in forces housing for 50 years, the largest ever British warship deal, and the largest typhoon deal for a generation. We have the strategic defence review to move us to warfighting readiness; the defence industrial strategy to drive defence as an engine for growth across the UK; new defence agreements with the EU, Norway and France; new investment in technology, with Atlantic Bastion, cyber and electromagnetic command and drones; and over 1,000 major new contracts signed. In 2026, we will deliver further. Today, on the eve of Parliament’s Christmas recess, and on behalf of the House, I wish every member of our armed forces—especially those whose service will mean they are separate from their loved ones—a peaceful and safe Christmas.
Mr Speaker
I call Antonia Bance. [Interruption.] Sorry, I call Julian Smith. The answer was that long, I had forgotten about him.
Sir Julian Smith
I associate myself with the Secretary of State’s remarks about our armed forces having a fantastic Christmas, wherever they are. The strategic defence review talked about the need for a “national conversation” on defence. What steps are the Government taking to support that national conversation, particularly so that our constituents and the population are faced with the trade-offs needed to increase spending on our armed forces?
John Healey
I refer the right hon. Gentleman to the speech that the Chief of the Defence Staff will make tonight, in which he will argue that the price of peace is rising. He will set out exactly how this requires a response from the whole of society, not just a strengthening of our armed forces.
Antonia Bance (Tipton and Wednesbury) (Lab)
James Cartlidge (South Suffolk) (Con)
In May, the Secretary of State said from the Government Dispatch Box that the UK-EU defence pact “opens the door” to the €150 billion EU defence fund. From this Dispatch Box in June, I warned that what the Secretary of State was actually doing was surrendering our precious sovereign fishing grounds without getting a penny in return. Who was right?
John Healey
We were talking about the strategic defence partnership agreement. We wanted to follow that up with an agreement on Security Action for Europe, but that proved impossible to negotiate in a way that was good value for the British defence industry and the British taxpayer. That will not stop us from promoting the cause of the British defence industry and doing the record defence export deals that we have done over the past year—an extra £10 billion through the biggest ever warship deal with Norway, and £8 billion through the biggest Typhoon deal in a generation. We will do more alongside the European Union, which is a valued partner; in particular, we will do more on Ukraine, as we stand with Ukraine for as long as it takes.
John Healey
I fundamentally disagree with the hon. Gentleman. In June, the strategic defence review recommended that Britain consider becoming part of NATO’s dual-capable aircraft nuclear mission, and within weeks that is exactly what we committed to do. We will now go ahead and purchase the F-35As so that Britain can play a full part in NATO’s DCA nuclear mission, reinforcing European defence and our nuclear deterrence.
Pam Cox (Colchester) (Lab)
Mark Pritchard (The Wrekin) (Con)
John Healey
The right hon. Gentleman will recognise that the strategic defence review pointed out that we must do more to take seriously our homeland defence, and we are. It pointed out that we needed to do more on our integrated air and missile defence for the UK. We are, and we will.
Irene Campbell (North Ayrshire and Arran) (Lab)
John Healey
Because we have in place restrictions on export licences for any components where there is a risk that they could be used for the breaching of international humanitarian law in Gaza.
Mr James Frith (Bury North) (Lab)
Lincoln Jopp (Spelthorne) (Con)
The Minister for Defence Readiness and Industry said that we would have the defence investment plan in the autumn. The Secretary of State has now told us that they are working flat-out to get it to us by the end of the year. When I was in the Army, we had a saying that two minutes early is three minutes late. Can we just make sure that this lackadaisical approach to punctuality has not spread to the military? Can the Secretary of State confirm that the King’s birthday parade will indeed take place at 11 am on 13 June?
John Healey
I can indeed. A wish a happy Christmas to the hon. Gentleman and the whole House.
Chris Webb (Blackpool South) (Lab)
The recent Typhoon deal is welcome news in my constituency of Blackpool South, an area in the country where we see high levels of deprivation, but also high demand for jobs and apprentices. Can the Minister outline what more can be done? Could there be a domestic order? What other deals are we looking at internationally to create more of the jobs and apprenticeships that we need on the Fylde coast?
Jayne Kirkham (Truro and Falmouth) (Lab/Co-op)
Earlier this year I welcomed the Armed Forces Commissioner Bill receiving Royal Assent. Currently there is no such equivalent for the Royal Fleet Auxiliary. Will the Minister confirm the plan to introduce an Armed Forces Commissioner for the RFA in the Armed Forces Bill next year, as set out in my ten-minute rule Bill? Can he report on progress with the RFA pay negotiations and collective bargaining agreement?
John Healey
I welcome my hon. Friend’s ten-minute rule Bill, and I would like to meet her to look at the issue seriously. She is quite right that this country has never had someone like the armed forces commissioner, who will be a new independent voice, enshrined in statute, reporting directly to Parliament and not to Ministers. This will be an important way of giving voice to those in our armed forces who serve, and the families who support them.
Dr Danny Chambers (Winchester) (LD)
The Army Training Regiment Winchester, which puts about 20% of new recruits through basic training, is due to be shut next July, but the replacement facility at Pirbright is not due to open until 2030 at the earliest, although apparently that might be delayed. We have corresponded on this briefly, but would the Minister be willing to meet me and perhaps facilitate a meeting with the commanding officers of Winchester and Pirbright, to ensure that they have the support they need to increase troop numbers and not lose the capacity to train 20% of them?
Noah Law (St Austell and Newquay) (Lab)
Given the recent further estimates putting the total cost of the war in Ukraine to the European economy at north of $1 billion a year, while the total allied commitment to Ukraine remains at about $100 billion a year, does the Secretary of State agree that we cannot but afford to go further in our support for our Ukrainian allies?
John Healey
I do indeed. That is why I am convening, and will co-chair tomorrow, the latest meeting of the 50-nation-strong Ukraine defence contact group. We will be looking to step up the support that we are able to give Ukraine now to keep it in the fight, alongside the work that we are doing in the coalition of the willing, so that we are ready to help secure the peace in the event of an agreement.
Helen Morgan (North Shropshire) (LD)
The Robert Jones and Agnes Hunt orthopaedic hospital in my constituency is home to a world-class veterans centre that provides not only excellent orthopaedic care but wraparound support to help veterans to continue their lives in civilian society. Will the Minister come to North Shropshire and meet the people who run the centre, so that she can see for herself how effective this model is?
Tim Farron (Westmorland and Lonsdale) (LD)
The maintenance of our nuclear deterrent, and the development of our wider defence capabilities in the United Kingdom, rests heavily on the town of Barrow, next to my own constituency, in my district of Westmorland and Furness. Does the Secretary of State recognise that investment into the town from the council is crucial to maintaining our peace and security, and will he have a word with his colleagues in the Cabinet? The local council is set to have a 13% cut to its budget, which will put at risk much of the investment in the town of Barrow that is meant to underpin the defence of our realm.
John Healey
The hon. Gentleman is entirely right. Since the general election, Barrow has seen more than 1,000 extra jobs in the shipyard alone. It will have seen the long-term commitment that this Government have made to Team Barrow, which is the result of national and local government, and other agencies, working together. We are determined to make that a success.
Euan Stainbank (Falkirk) (Lab)
On Armed Forces Day, it is crucial to mark the bravery of our armed forces personnel and bring our communities together. Will the Minister meet me to discuss how we can better support Armed Forces Day 2026 events in places such as Falkirk?
Sir Julian Lewis (New Forest East) (Con)
I welcome the Government’s commitment ultimately to spend 5% of GDP on defence—as we used to do in the cold war years of the 1980s—but not the target date of 2035. Do the Government really believe that there is no threat of attack from Russia on a NATO country for the next 10 years?
John Healey
Of course there are rising threats, which is why we have a rising defence budget over the next 10 years. The 2035 commitment that we have made is shared with all other 31 NATO nations.
Ian Roome (North Devon) (LD)
The strategic defence review states that we need a 30% increase in cadet forces, from 140,000 to 180,000. However, I am informed that there is a severe shortage of adult instructors. What is the Minister going to do to address that problem?