Found: HO [KM] Jo Churchill MP, Minister for Prevention, Public Health and Primary care, DHSC [JC] Julie Morgan

Found: broader constitutional perspective, shortly after this Bill was published, a motion proposed by Julie Morgan

Found: the 2020 Comprehensive Spending Review. ” She wrote “I 1538 Letter from Vaughan Gething and Julie Morgan

Found: Following up on this meeting, he wrote to Assembly Member Julie Morgan, Chair of the Cross Party Group

Found: Following up on this meeting, he wrote to Assembly Member Julie Morgan, Chair of the Cross Party Group

Found: the 2020 Comprehensive Spending Review. ” She wrote “I 1538 Letter from Vaughan Gething and Julie Morgan

Found: The Welsh will not be sending a Minister, although former Minister Julie Morgan will be attending to

Found: Wellbeing Joe FitzPatrick MSP Welsh Government Deputy Minister for Health & Social Services Julie Morgan

Found: the Cabinet Office and Paymaster - Correspondence from Jenni Minto MSP, Minister for PHWH and Julie Morgan

Found: Office and Paymaster GeneralFrom: Jenni Minto MSP, Minister for Public Health and Women’s Health Julie Morgan

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Found: summary In an Oral Statement on 4 June 2024, the Cabinet Secretary for Education announced that I, Julie Morgan

Found: On 4 June 2024, I announced that Julie Morgan MS had agreed to lead a rapid review of the School Holiday

Found: Consultations 2022-06-09 00:00:00 Ymweliad/Visit Baxter Project' yn Ysgol Uwchradd Eglwys Newydd (gyda Julie Morgan

Found: :00:00 Cyfarfod/Meeting Tree Planting Deep Dive Exercise 2021-06-21 00:00:00 Cyfarfod/Meeting Julie Morgan

Found: Eluned Morgan MS Minister for Health and Social Services Julie Morgan MS Deputy Minister for Social

Found: (to nearest £1000) £ Total 2023-24 (to nearest £1000) Total 2022-23 (to nearest £1000) Julie Morgan

Question

Will the First Minister provide a list of Senedd Members who have passes to Cathays Park Welsh Government offices?

Answered by First Minister

A list of Senedd Members who have passes to the Cathays Park Welsh Government offices is included below.

• Eluned Morgan
• Dawn Bowden
• Huw Irranca-Davies
• Vikki Howells
• Jayne Bryant
• Julie James
• Rt Hon Mark Drakeford
• Sarah Murphy
• Rebecca Evans
• Jack Sargeant
• Jane Hutt
• Julie Morgan (now removed)
• Jeremy Miles
• Lynne Neagle
• Ken Skates

<p>I thank the Cabinet Secretary.</p>
<p>The next question is to be answered by the Cabinet Secretary for Health and Social Care, and to be asked by Julie Morgan.</p>

<p>Cabinet Secretary, if I could add my name to all the comments that have been made, and particularly to thank Julie Morgan for not only the work she's done over many years, but also for raising this again today. Because it's clear, despite all the high hopes after Brian Langstaff's inquiry, that we still have these delays and it's obviously concerning. So, I just raise two particular points. On the 213 registered with the Welsh affected blood scheme, what I think we could be asking UK Government to resolve is this: why can't the data—the data that is on that scheme—be transferred to the new scheme, so that people can be paid immediately? It's difficult to understand why that would not be possible, why it would not be the case. The second point is that for the remainder, which are the affected people, who are predominantly siblings, they've been told that they will be invited in 2029, that's in over five years' time, to start their claim. But the question is: how does UK Government know who to write to, who they are, when there was actually no register of those who are affected who may be invited in 2029? It <span style="text-decoration: underline;">seems to me</span>&nbsp;</p>

<p>I want to echo the comments made across the political parties today, and I thank Julie Morgan for her question and her work in campaigning over many years. I couldn't be there to meet campaigners today, but I do thank them and pay tribute to them. Lynne Kelly, from Haemophilia Wales, and all the individuals and families who have battled through great personal pain in order to seek justice.</p>

<p>Diolch yn fawr, Dirprwy Lywydd. As with so many other Senedd Members, I have constituents who were and are affected by the infected blood scandal, and that word 'scandal' certainly applies to these matters, doesn't it? It really is a shocking scandal and absolutely heartbreaking for the families affected. It was informative to meet the campaigners here today. Cabinet Secretary, and lots of Senedd&nbsp;Members had very useful discussions with them in terms of the up-to-date situation.</p>
<p>Many of the matters I was going to raise have been raised by Senedd Members already, but I would very much like to join in paying tribute to Julie Morgan and all of the campaigners outside of the Senedd in Wales for the strength of their commitment and the work that they do. I was going to ask if you would meet with Haemophilia Wales, but you've already answered that point from Mabon ap Gwynfor.</p>
<p>Could I just ask, in addition to that, Cabinet Secretary, could you ensure that the ongoing communication with Haemophilia Wales and affected families here in our country is everything it needs to be, because, you know, it is sometimes quite a fast-changing situation? And as well as an initial meeting, I think having a system in place to allow for communication on an ongoing basis is absolutely crucial as well.</p>

<p>I thank Julie Morgan for this very important question today. Before the election last summer, we heard all kinds of promises made to the patients who have suffered as a result of the infected blood scandal. But, almost a year later, patients and their loved ones are still waiting for payments and for justice. In fact, as we heard from Julie Morgan, two patients related to the scandal die every week, and when their loved ones die then the right to compensation dies with them. So, you can therefore understand why some patients’ families who have been in contact with me believe that the matter is being dragged out and that it’s intentional on the part of the Government in order to avoid paying out the compensation.</p>
<p>Today, I met some of the families outside the Senedd. Brian Williams was there. Brian now suffers from liver cancer as a result of being infected, but he is still waiting for payments while being completely blameless in all of this. Not only are patients waiting, but some have seen their medical records being lost—and I say 'lost', in quote marks. Suzanne Morgan told me how the hospital had lost her mother's health records, and she was denied the right to apply for payments because there was no relevant paperwork at the hospital, even though there were plenty of records of the disease. <span style="text-decoration: underline;">So, there are various</span></p>

<p>I’d like to raise the case of a constituent of mine who has been ably supported as well by Julie Morgan. And to follow on from her concerns about the IBCA, the new compensation scheme may unfairly discriminate against spouses and partners who become widowers and widows from here on in. For example, if my constituent had passed away before the end of March 2025, these are his words by the way, his wife would have received 100 per cent of his support payments for the first year after his death, and then 75 per cent every year thereafter for the remainder of her life. However, from now on, as his wife is not currently signed up to the new scheme, she would be forced to take out a lump sum payment in return for the loss of her late husband’s earnings, which works out at a lot less over time than ongoing support payments. He and others who have been affected by the scandal were relieved last year when they were informed that support payments would continue for life. But they believe that this is a loophole, which potentially leaves families unsupported if something were to happen to loved ones. So, when the Cabinet Secretary has further meetings with UK counterparts, could he please raise that issue as well?</p>

<p>I thank John Griffiths for that, and I will certainly look to my officials to make sure that we have arrangements in place that make sure that when we have information that that is shared in the way that he suggests.</p>
<p>May I also take the opportunity of echoing his thanks to Julie Morgan once again for bringing this important question to the Senedd today and to thank families and campaigners who are here to witness and share the debate with us today?&nbsp;</p>

<p>I thank Julie Morgan for her question. It’s a very, very important question, and the way in which she put it reminds us all of the very human impact of the arrangements that are being put in place and being discussed.</p>
<p>In my discussions with the UK Government, who obviously are responsible for the scheme, as she clearly is aware, I’m informed that the IBCA are still building and testing their compensation service, and they are working to start claims for estates-affected people and infected people who are not registered with the support scheme, with the aim of starting payments to some people in all of these groups by the end of this year. They won’t have finished paying people in these groups in that timeframe, but they will have started across all the infection groups.</p>
<p>When they open, they will prioritise claims for those who are nearing the end of their life. This is for those who have been told by a medical professional that they might have 12 months or less to live. During April, I’m informed that they will write to everyone who’s registered with the support scheme to confirm that they have their correct details and to explain how to contact them if the prioritising end-of-life claims applies to them. I’m also aware that the IBCA is recruiting hundreds of claims managers at the moment to help with compensation claims as soon as possible.</p>
<p>I want to identify myself with the comments that she made at the end of her statement about standing firm in support of infected and affected people and see them having justice, and I will press the case, as I have done, with the UK Government in my next meeting, and I shall make sure to be in touch with the Minister before that. I’m aware that Haemophilia Wales, who she referred to in her question, is I believe meeting with the Minister for the Cabinet Office later this week to discuss these very issues.</p>

<p>I’d like to associate myself with all the comments made by Julie Morgan. This infected blood scandal is probably one of the biggest devastating impacts that’s ever been in our health service right the way across our country, and my thoughts and my group’s thoughts are with all those people who were affected or infected by the problem.</p>
<p>Cabinet Secretary, one thing I think I’d like to hear more of from you is actually the advocacy support and the mental health support that you are giving to those individuals. Some of these people, as Julie Morgan has said, have waited an awful long time, and they’ve even having further delays in accessing the compensation that they can get. So, I’d just like to hear further from you, what work are you doing in this space to make sure that those individuals and their families are supported through this process so nobody has to go through this alone? Most of them have gone through it alone for so many years before.</p>

<p>I associate myself with the comments that James Evans made at the start in relation to the campaigning work that a number of Members have been pursuing, including, very markedly, Julie Morgan and others. He’s right to say that the support available to those affected in Wales is absolutely critical, and there is a range of support available, which I think is generally well received, but there is obviously more that we will always look to do to provide the support which people need. I hope that he found the answer I gave to Julie Morgan of some reassurance.</p>

<p>Thank you for that answer. Last month, my office attended a meeting that was sponsored by Julie Morgan and Jenny Rathbone with the Royal College of Nursing. There were a number of powerful messages in that meeting, many of them outwith your portfolio, but one of them within your portfolio was the ability for nurses to study and research through the medium of Welsh. According to the meeting, the practical nature of much nursing research means that patient outcomes are often directly affected by that research, and, with fewer opportunities for research through the medium of Welsh, it's likely that that will have a detrimental impact on Welsh-speaking patients and communities.&nbsp;</p>
<p>I also understand that securing PhD supervisors and examiners in this area who can speak Welsh and who have expertise in nursing is very difficult already. With fewer research opportunities, that means that it's going to make things even more difficult. Cardiff University is so important, because it specialises in research and offers the subject through the medium of Welsh. So, what conversations have you had, or are you planning to have, to ensure the continuation of Welsh-medium nursing research in Cardiff? Thank you.</p>

<p>Diolch yn fawr, and I'd like to thank Julie Morgan and her constituent for that feedback. It was really good, and that was something I was really pleased to be at well. I think seeing the trials happening was really important, and the fact that people were really pleased that it was going on is exactly, I think, why it's so important to trial those various solutions in those settings. I know that that happened in Cardiff, I think the week before last, and I think Monday it happened in Wrexham as well. So, we're trialling these different ways across Wales. I'm also extremely thankful to all participants who took part in the two trials, as well as RNIB Cymru, Vision Support and local authorities who helped us to set up those trials, and I look forward to sharing the findings with returning officers to help them put the most appropriate support in place so that blind and partially sighted people can be confident in voting independently and in secret, which is absolutely important, isn't it? And it was something that I was able to discuss with Government Ministers at UK level, Scotland and Northern Ireland recently as well, who are all interested in what we're doing here in Wales.</p>

<p>We'll now move to questions to the Cabinet Secretary for Education. The first&nbsp;question is from Julie Morgan.</p>

<p>I'd like to thank Julie Morgan for that question. I share your enthusiasm for Taith, and I hope I can reassure you on your latter point as well. So, as you've said, it is an investment in our young people's futures, and we're ensuring that this generation of learners can benefit from these life-changing opportunities. I should say as well that it also extends to adult learners, and I've met a whole range of learners who've really benefited from Taith.</p>
<p>By the end of 2025,&nbsp;almost £30 million of Taith&nbsp;funding will have been awarded to projects in all education sectors across Wales. The breadth of organisations that have received funding I think really reflects our emphasis on delivering a programme that benefits all education and youth sectors across Wales. Taith&nbsp;has a real focus on providing opportunities for those who would not otherwise have them, and a refocused strategy published in October 2023 re-emphasises the core values of the programme, including a commitment to support people from under-represented groups, such as those from disadvantaged backgrounds, to take part.</p>
<p>On the delivery of Taith, Taith&nbsp;is delivered by the International Learning Exchange Programme Ltd, and that's a wholly owned subsidiary of Cardiff University. And because of that clear separation between the two and the Welsh Government's grant award letter being directly with ILEP Ltd, we are confident that the delivery of Taith will be unaffected by the wider situation involving Cardiff University. The current grant&nbsp;to deliver Taith ends in March 2027, and my officials are in the process of agreeing a one-year extension with ILEP Ltd, the organisation that delivers Taith, which will extend the end date to March 2028. But we are committed, in the long term, to Taith.</p>

<p>Item 4 is the 90-second statements, and the first statement will be from Julie Morgan.</p>

<p>Thank you so much, Julie Morgan, for those questions. I want to say that I would completely agree with you on all of the organisations. I remember many years ago going to City Hospice. You were there as well, and we had an open day, and it was very community orientated, really, and just how much, over the years, they've expanded that service that they provide, which I think is tremendous. Also, I'd just take this opportunity as well to say that so many of these organisations have huge input and couldn't run without volunteers. It is the volunteers in this space as well. I also wanted to say that we've talked a lot today about how complex grief can be, and sometimes traumatic as well, depending on your circumstances, and, as we've said, it's all about that connection and feeling as if somebody understands what you're going through. I think that all of these organisations really get that. I'm really pleased that the bereavement support grant has been able to continue to support both the City Hospice and many other organisations.</p>
<p>I also wanted to say 'thank you so much' for talking about the Cardiff and Vale baby loss psychology service. It is the first in Wales. I was there for the launch of it. I got to talk to mothers who had lost a baby and then were receiving that support and care from the team when they were having their next baby, which, obviously, would be such an anxious time for them. They've got a number of peer support groups as well for a range of different needs, I suppose. And, yes, this is how we tend to do things in Wales—as you know, you start off with somebody who goes first, usually through absolute sheer determination and tenacity. And I also got to meet the team as well when they came, and I visited the maternity unit at the University Hospital of Wales. Not only do they provide the support to mothers and families, but they also provide support to the midwives and the bereavement midwives, because it takes all of that, really, to be able to hold, sometimes, that real grief. This is something that I and the Cabinet Secretary for Health and Social Care, as you know, are all about; if it's good practice, if it's working, if it's something that is really making a difference, then our intention is always to see that good practice spread.</p>
<p>And then,&nbsp;in terms of the pathways,&nbsp;it is the baby loss and the children and young people pathways that are being done first. Lynne Neagle is now in the Chamber, but I reiterate what I said before—and, of course, you and so many people have been part of ensuring that we have these very specific pathways. Professor Ann John is overseeing that process, and we should have that feedback on that consultation by spring, and then we keep going and we get that rolled out as quickly as we possibly can. Diolch.</p>

<p>Thank you very much, Julie Morgan, for your questions. It is important to recognise that the Cabinet Secretary for Health and Social Care and counterparts across UK are working with the Minister for the Cabinet Office in the UK Government to ensure that the Infected Blood Compensation Authority is set up as quickly as possible and is tailored to meet the needs of those infected and affected by this scandal. But it is important to have feedback of concerns in terms of how decisions are being made and the timeliness of that, but remembering that the Infected Blood Compensation Authority is an independent arm's-length body with operational independence from the Government. It has that role to deliver the compensation scheme to the victims of the scandal who've waited so long for justice, and the UK Government Cabinet Office's involvement in the development of that scheme is necessary, as the Government has stewardship over the money allocated for the scheme. It is important that the community, representatives from the community and representatives are engaged. They have, I understand, attended events organised by the Cabinet Office. And indeed, the Minister for the Cabinet Office has committed to engaging with the infected blood community, most recently, I believe, meeting key representatives of the community in Wales. On 30 January, they met, I understand, with the chair of Haemophilia Wales.</p>
<p>But it is important that there has been feedback from the infected blood community, and there have been some changes, for example, to the eligibility of siblings under the scheme, but also it is important that the website that is available for information—'Compensation for someone who is infected: Overview'—is available to all those affected, and that there are plans laid out by the Infected Blood Compensation Authority to open the compensation service in stages, to make sure it's effective and secure for all those claiming. But there is quite a lot here that I think we can ask the Cabinet Secretary for Health and Social Care to update us on, I think, in a statement on progress, because it is so important. And it's thanks to your continued engagement and campaigning impact on the way things have developed that we do make this actually deliver the promises that have been made. So, I thank you for that question, and will discuss it with the Cabinet Secretary for Health and Social Care.</p>
<p>Yes, interestingly, on the mutual investment model, your second question, which was referred to last week, I think, by the chief executive of NHS England, suggesting that this is something that we could, and the NHS Confederation—. This model that we've developed in Wales could be used in England. It has allowed us to invest in over £1 billion of additional public infrastructure that wouldn't have been possible due to our limited borrowing powers and our capital funding settlement. And what is so important—. I remember coming to a meeting with you at Velindre many, many years ago, when I was finance Minister, to welcome the investment in our health infrastructure through the new Velindre Cancer Centre, at which you were able to have that great event last week, with the Cabinet Secretary, to see the developments. It is a funding option. It's available to the Welsh Government to finance public infrastructure. And it is a Government policy that, of course, we always use sources of publicly available capital funding, the least expensive forms of capital, before we turn to potentially more expensive forms of investment. And of course, we now have that opportunity at long last with the draft budget and the capital allocation that is in the draft budget as a result of that £1.5 billion uplift in the budget from the UK Government for next year.&nbsp;</p>

<p>Motion NDM8814 Jenny Rathbone, Llyr Gruffydd, Peter Fox</p>
<p>Supported by James Evans, Julie Morgan, Lee Waters, Mike Hedges, Samuel Kurtz</p>
<p>To propose that the Senedd:</p>
<p>1. Notes that:</p>
<p>a) despite the abundance of quality food produced by Welsh farmers, the dominance of ultra-processed food in our diets has devastating consequences for the health, wealth and well-being of our nation;</p>
<p>b) access to affordable, healthy food is a social justice issue, with poorer communities disproportionately affected by diet-related illnesses;</p>
<p>c) Welsh production of 20,000 tonnes of fruit and vegetables a year is only equivalent to a quarter of a portion of fruit and vegetables a day per person;</p>
<p>d) expanding sustainable local food production can help reduce food miles, improve food security, and create green jobs in Wales; and</p>
<p>e) the transition to a sustainable food nation requires a joined up, collaborative, preventative approach in line with the well-being of future generations Act.</p>
<p>2. Calls on the Welsh Government to:</p>
<p>a) develop a holistic, joined up government strategy to improve people’s diets;</p>
<p>b) promote the benefits of fresh, unprocessed food to encourage dietary shifts and tackle the dominance of ultra-processed foods;</p>
<p>c) use the welcome investment in local food partnerships to bring together growers, caterers and eaters to expand Welsh horticulture;</p>
<p>d) accelerate work to produce a community food strategy within the Sixth Senedd; and</p>
<p>e) use the power of public procurement to improve the food served to pupils, patients and people living in care homes.</p>

<p>Cabinet Secretary, I would like to join Julie Morgan in recognising the groups and volunteers right across Wales who help make Wales a nation of sanctuary. One such example is Mark Seymour, who, in Newport, has been instrumental in the work of Bethel Community Church, which formed the Sanctuary, which has now become the Gap Wales, which aims to fill gaps left by other services in providing help and support to refugees and asylum seekers. It provides a warm welcome, a daily drop-in and a range of activities and workshops. It provides education on human trafficking, and also bicycles and helmets, and, in conjunction with Newport Live, training for refugees and asylum seekers in using those bikes. It states, Cabinet Secretary, that it's about care and concern delivered in a practical way, by supporting people from refugee and asylum-seeker communities, by building friendships and restoring a sense of belonging and community, giving practical and emotional support. Those volunteers have been delivering that for a number of years now, strengthening and increasing that help and support. I'm sure that you'd like to join me, Cabinet Secretary, in paying a very warm welcome for those activities and paying tribute to them, in helping, as I say, to make Wales a nation of sanctuary right across our country.</p>

<p>Thank you very much, Julie Morgan. I absolutely support everything that you've said and praise those organisations—the Welsh Refugee Council, Oasis, Housing Justice Cymru, the British Red Cross and many more—who are working on the front line with our support. I've said that this is team Wales, and we not only support them in terms of the fact that many of these organisations have come under horrendous misinformation and abuse and have been caused great fear, for the staff and the offices for those who work in those places at the front line. But they, as we do, recognise that we're here to work together and to support them—it's the people who are fleeing conflict and who are coming here to hopefully find a nation of sanctuary that we need to recognise and do everything we can to support them. And it is important that this actually does lead to communities, to community cohesion, to understanding and the great blessing of diversity, as our children learn to live together in our schools. I just think it's something we should praise and shout out about when we can, to protect those who, absolutely, as you say, are under threat in any way. And we will back those organisations through thick and thin.</p>

<p>Okay. Julie Morgan.</p>

<p>Julie Morgan.</p>

<p>I think we need to see what the review actually comes out and tells us, but this is a whole budget discussion that we're talking about now, and I don't think that we want to get into budget discussions right at the moment. We're setting out the principles of what we're trying to achieve, and we've seen that local authorities' budgets have been increased significantly in this budget. If you vote for it, that might well be able to help support some of the work that we're looking to do here.</p>
<p>Now, we're also&nbsp;working with health to develop a shared care record and a national data repository, and that will help to provide a single record for people across both health and social care.</p>
<p>The motion further calls for recognition of unpaid carers as a priority group in the design and delivery of policy intentions. I can tell you that we are already working across Government to ensure that unpaid carers are actively considered in a range of strategies and policies, including our new mental health strategy, the child poverty strategy, the suicide prevention strategy, and our strategy for an ageing society. Unpaid carers are a priority area also for the gender equality forum and for the Welsh Government's response to the UN Committee on the Rights of the Child's concluding observations 2023 report. We continue to develop our delivery plan for&nbsp;2025-26, which sits under our national strategy for carers, and this is being co-produced with national care organisations, unpaid carers, local authorities and health boards. Co-production is, of course, a key principle of the social services and well-being Act, and we expect local authorities to ensure the active involvement of unpaid carers when they're developing or commissioning services that affect them.</p>
<p>As was highlighted by Julie Morgan in her contribution, our short breaks scheme and carers support fund were developed in direct response to what carers said they needed in partnership with local authorities and with the third sector. Feedback from unpaid carers has been very positive. We've increased the opportunities for a break from people's caring roles, and we're helping them to access emergency financial support and assistance, directly benefiting their well-being. I was pleased to announce, just last week, that we have further extended that&nbsp;fund by £5.2 million. As Julie also highlighted in her contribution, the scheme that we have to support our young carers through the ID cards is also quite groundbreaking.</p>
<p>Llywydd, once again, I am grateful to Sioned&nbsp;Williams for tabling the motion, giving the Senedd the opportunity of shining a light on the need to support unpaid carers, but I do not see an immediate need for further legislation at this time. Rather, we should direct our energies to ensuring that the current legislation that we have is effectively enabled, and I believe that&nbsp;that's what I've set out today. So, rest assured that this Government will continue to recognise the vital contribution of unpaid carers and deliver on our strategic priorities in collaboration with unpaid carers and our social care partners. Diolch yn fawr.</p>

<p>A few points I'd like to respond to, I know I don't have too much time. Just on the point that Julie Morgan and the Minister raised around the extension of the sustainable social&nbsp;service grant, the short breaks fund and the carers support fund, they're welcome, of course, but they're yet to be transformative in their impact, and they don't go far enough to address the deep injustices faced by unpaid carers in Wales. They've been running for a number of years, and yet we know from the Carers Wales report last year that there are 100,000 unpaid carers living in poverty. We know that, by this year, around 30,000 short breaks will have been provided to carers, and yet the 2021 census shows us there are over 300,000 unpaid carers in Wales. So, what about that other 90 per cent of carers who would benefit from a break from their role?</p>
<p>Of course, the Government, yes, can produce as many charters, delivery plans and strategies as it chooses, and they can be accompanied by warm words in the Senedd and statements&nbsp;during Carers Week and visits to carers centres, but it needs to get a grip of its own legislation, and specifically its effective implementation, otherwise we're going to be coming back here every year, hearing more about unpaid carers who are struggling to make ends meet, who are waiting months or years for their needs to be assessed, and who have given up their jobs because no support was made available to them. So, if the Government doesn't think we need new legislation to fix this mess, then it needs to show leadership and commitment, more than it plans to currently, which includes sufficient resource, to start to make inroads into the injustice faced by hundreds of thousands of people who just want a bit of support to provide some care to the people they love and to live a fulfilling life alongside that.</p>

<p>Diolch, Llywydd. I'm delighted to move the motion for Stage 4&nbsp;of the Health and Social Care (Wales) Bill. The provisions to eliminate profit from the care of looked-after children are part of the biggest reform of children's services in Wales for over 40 years. From fostering and adoption, corporate parenting, practice standards and services for children with complex needs, the Welsh Government is putting into practice our commitment to give every family in Wales the opportunity to succeed.&nbsp;</p>
<p>It's worth remembering where this part of the Bill started—in young people telling us that they did not want to be the means of someone making a profit out of the challenges that they and their families faced. We listened to them and we agreed with them. That's why we introduced this Bill and why today is so important to young people. It shows that, above all, we have heard them and we've put their rights and needs first.&nbsp;The Bill will also allow us to channel the resources to pay for care directly into services without margin for private gain, so that we can develop a sustainable, affordable and well-managed range of care services for our young people.&nbsp;</p>
<p>Additionally, if passed, the Bill will play an important part in honouring the Government's commitment to improve the interface between social care and continuing NHS healthcare&nbsp;by enabling the introduction of continuing healthcare direct payments. This is important in supporting disabled people and those with long-term health needs to live as independently and with as much control as possible. It too is witness to our commitment to put the voice of the most vulnerable in Wales at the heart of what we do as a Government.</p>
<p>This is a groundbreaking piece of legislation, of which we can all be proud. I would like to thank Members of the Senedd, especially my predecessor Julie Morgan, who was responsible for this Bill in its early stages. I'm grateful also to those Members and committees who have scrutinised this Bill and helped improve it, supported by Senedd Commission officials. I'd also like to thank the Welsh Government officials who have supported me for their commitment and dedication. Likewise, I thank all the stakeholders and delivery partners who have contributed to the policy and legislative process. But above all, I'm grateful to the children and young people, and disabled people, and those with long-term health needs, who contributed to the development and scrutiny of the Bill by sharing their experiences of the health and social care system and their views on how it needs to change.</p>
<p>I look forward to working with all involved as we implement the Bill, subject, of course, to Royal Assent. I urge all parties in the Senedd to support this Bill, so that we can improve the care experience for looked-after children, ensure that direct payments are possible for people receiving continuing NHS healthcare, and support them to retain voice and control of their lives, and improve the operation of the law on social care in Wales. Diolch, Llywydd.</p>

<p>Diolch, Julie Morgan. I’m very pleased that you’ve asked the question about diversity inclusion guidance for political parties, because we received 49 responses to the public consultation on the draft guidance. I’m really grateful to all those organisations and individuals who took the time to submit their feedback, and we are working through those responses to the consultation exercise. We’ll publish a summary of the response in due course, and then publish the final guidance as soon as possible, so that it’s available to all political parties well in advance of the next Senedd, and indeed, local government elections.</p>
<p>Now, yes, section 106 of the Equality Act 2010 would, if commenced, provide a statutory basis that would require political parties to collect and publish diversity information on Senedd candidates. And I know, in the Senedd Reform Bill Committee, this was questioned, about when this would be commenced. So, I recently wrote to the UK Government to set out what we were doing in Wales, telling them about our guidance, requesting an update on plans for section 106. And I was pleased to receive a reply from the Minister for Women and Equalities, and she indicated that they are committed to commencing section 106.&nbsp;I think that's important news to share in the Senedd today. I look forward to hearing from them again when there is greater certainty on next steps. So, thank you for enabling me to draw that to the Senedd's attention. And, of course, I will be providing an update on our full guidance, our diversity and inclusion guidance, which, I have to say, has also been welcomed by the Scottish Government. There's a lot of interest in what we're doing in Wales. And I'm sure all political parties will, hopefully, be taking note of that guidance when it comes through, and implementing it.</p>
<p>On bank closures, and this has come up today because banks are closing across Wales, 380 bank branches have closed in Wales since January 2015. It's such a critical loss. I think all of us, across the Senedd, will know of and have these bank closures. And it's the pace of closures that really means that it's very hard for customers. The question was asked about transport to what's left in terms of access to financial services. That's where banking hubs are important. Financial inclusion, of course, is a key priority for the Welsh Government. So, we are looking—. Although financial services aren't devolved—it's a reserved matter—the Cabinet Secretary for Economy, Energy and Planning is engaged, as am I, in looking at the opportunities. We've got seven shared banking hubs open in Wales so far, at Abergele, Morriston, Swansea, Porthcawl, Prestatyn, Welshpool, in addition to Abertillery and Treorchy, and there are more planned.</p>
<p>But we also have opportunities with our credit unions. Of course, we've been very interested in the community bank discussions and proposals that have been coming forward. We also have Smart Money Cymru Community Bank. And a banking in Welsh communities event is going to be held next month, jointly organised by both the Cabinet Secretary for economy and myself, and our officials, and this is going to be at the Principality offices in central Cardiff. So, I hope I can feed back on that event, and the Cabinet Secretary for economy.</p>
<p>Also, I think it's very important for the whole Senedd to know about the Pathfinder pilot, which I believe you've visited. I visited myself, with Mick Antoniw, when he was Counsel General. It is a pilot. It's when families apply to the family court, when they're in dispute over where and with whom a child should live and how much contact should occur. There's been a pilot with the Ministry of Justice, with the co-operation of Cafcass Cymru, HM Courts and Tribunals Service, the judiciary, and other stakeholders, implementing this new approach to private law work, known as the Pathfinder project.&nbsp;It's been enormously successful, and the Ministry of Justice has now agreed to roll out the new approach across the rest of Wales, from 3 March. All areas of Wales will be working under Pathfinder. The success of that pilot in north Wales has led to this extension across Wales, and Cafcass Cymru has secured funding from the Ministry of Justice to roll out Pathfinder across all of Wales, until March 2026. Data published shows that average case length since the pilot started has reduced by 29 weeks to 18 weeks in north Wales. I have, Llywydd, with your forbearance, wanted to just give a bit more information on Pathfinder, but perhaps we could say something more on another occasion, because it is a very good outcome from that pilot.</p>

<p>I'd like a statement, please, on what the Welsh Government is doing specifically to address the impact of the closure of high street banks in our communities. Last week, Lloyds Banking Group announced that they were closing their branch in Pontardawe. It's the last bank in the whole of the Swansea valley. I'm holding a public meeting this week so that people can have their say before I meet with Lloyds and appeal Link's cash access assessment, which was made from a desk in Yorkshire and bears no relation to reality. I've had a message just now saying that a lady was in the bank and it was heaving. 'There were eight people queuing in front of me; the queue was to the door.' So, there is a demand.&nbsp;</p>
<p>Trefnydd, we've had no update either—you referenced it just now—on the Welsh Government's programme for government commitment for a community bank since July, when those plans stalled. It's been revealed in budget scrutiny that no budget has been allocated to support further activity directly to support the creation of a community bank. So, I'd like the Senedd to be updated specifically on that. Has that commitment now been abandoned?</p>
<p>You talked about credit unions in your response to Julie Morgan. Well, do you know that, on the same day that we heard about the bank closure in the Swansea valley, a nearby branch of the local credit union was forced to shut in Port Talbot because of the increase in national insurance contributions. We need to hear what the Welsh Government's strategy is to help safeguard essential financial community services.</p>

<p>Thank you for that important question, following on from questions from Julie Morgan and others today about the closure of banks.&nbsp;I won't repeat what I said about the numbers that have closed, about the fact that we are—. They respond to say they're opening these shared banking hubs across Wales, but not in every community, and also that we have Link and the new service, Cash at the Till, enabling customers to access cash from retailers without making a purchase, and I've got this banking in Welsh communities event. It is important that we look at credit unions, and we give £0.5 million a year to credit unions to support 13 community-based projects. That does include new credit union hubs. When I heard about the closure of that particular credit union, I asked for feedback as to what was happening, what was the reason. I think there are reasons relating to the particular property, and we can look at that in terms of access to services in the area. But funding is in place until March 2026 for our credit unions.</p>
<p>Also, I have to say, again, I would like to discuss and meet with that credit union to follow this up, because £637,000 of capital support has been given to credit unions since 2021, and many of them are developing mobile solutions, outreach and working with other websites and lenders. And, yes, we do need to look at all of those opportunities, including, indeed, how we can move forward in looking at community bank solutions as well.</p>

<p>Diolch, Llywydd. And can I firstly thank everybody who’s contributed to the debate this afternoon? I'm not going to, obviously, in the time allowed to me to respond to the debate, go through all the points that were raised by Jame Evans, but, clearly, we did deal with that through scrutiny and at Stage 3, and I don't doubt for one moment, James, your commitment to us doing the work that we need to do to improve the outcomes for looked after children in Wales, and I do thank you very much for your support for that. I absolutely agree with everything that Mabon has said, and particularly what Julie Morgan has said. Julie, along with Mark Drakeford, actually, being the initial architects of this legislation, and I'm eternally grateful to both of you for that.</p>
<p>I want to be very clear in winding up this particular debate that eliminating the profit provisions as quickly as possible in a way that minimises disruption to the sector and to the placements of individual children is a key priority of Government, and we will be working closely with our sector partners to ensure rapid progress and providing regular updates on the implementation. And I want to be absolutely clear, and I do appreciate your concern, Julie, and the concern that others have raised that the adjustment from 2027 to 2030 is a significant change—it was not a decision that was taken lightly, and I will keep this under review. But I was mindful of minimising the risk of disruption to children and the feedback that I received. But I want to be very, very clear that the 2030 date for the ending of new placements by Welsh local authorities in existing for-profit services is not a target date, it is the absolute end date. And I expect substantial progress to be made before then in ending placements of existing for-profit children's homes and fostering services prior to 2030 in areas that have sufficiency for that not-for-profit provision, and I will be making sure that we get to that place as quickly as we possibly can. So, I just once again want to thank everybody for their contributions and I hope again to have the support of the Senedd in supporting this Bill. Thank you very much indeed.</p>

<p>The next item will be the topical questions. The first of those today will be answered by the Minister for Further and Higher Education, and will be asked by Julie Morgan.</p>

<p>Julie Morgan.</p>

<p>Diolch, Llywydd. Well, how to summarise that? I think I'll start with the Tory contributions. There was a marked contrast with the amendment, which didn't say much at all, because quite frankly, what can you say? It simply notes. But what we heard was this kind of ferociously zealous kind of defence of all the benefits, and we were back in the sunlit uplands again, weren't we, which never arrived.</p>
<p>I have to say, in relation to the vaccines point, because I think it is important that we as politicians—as you know, Darren, this is a particular issue that's close to my heart—we have to be accurate, so the UK approved the Pfizer-BioNTech vaccine through the Medicines and Healthcare products Regulatory Agency on 2 December 2020, before the Brexit transition period ended on 31 December 2020. At that time, the UK was still subject to EU rules, but EU law, which we were subject to, allowed national regulations to grant emergency-use authorisation independently in exceptional circumstances. The UK decided to do that; other countries didn't. The MHRA used an emergency approval process that was permitted under EU law, and so Brexit did not influence whatsoever the speed of that decision. So, the Member may want to, when he has an opportunity, to look at this, and may want to correct the record in that regard.</p>
<p>I and Julie Morgan mentioned the Taith programme, as did my colleague Cefin Campbell, and indeed the Minister. I think we're big supporters of the principles of the Taith programme. It's important to note, sadly, that in the draft budget, the Welsh Government are cutting the budget for Taith. They are cutting it by £1.6 million.</p>

<p>I’m grateful to Julie Morgan for raising these matters and to you, Minister, for your response. Higher education is fundamentally important to our wider economy, of course, and the contribution of higher education institutions is important to all of us, wherever we happen to represent. The news yesterday from Cardiff, of course, follows on from the news we had in west Wales, with the Lampeter campus losing its undergraduate teaching. And we’re seeing disruption and a weakening of the higher education sector as a consequence both of difficulties in funding and UK decisions on immigration—you’ve addressed that already—and it is important, I think, that we now consider that wider context. And my question to you, Minister, this afternoon, is: will you look at how we fund the fundamentals of university education and higher education, because I’ve never been a believer in the tuition fee system, I’ll tell you that now from the start. I’ve always felt that tuition fees are the wrong way to fund a fundamental part of our education system. For me, I would much prefer to see some sort of graduate tax approach to providing security for higher education into the future, but also ensuring that the taxpayer is able to demonstrate that we can invest not simply in the institutions, but in the people, in our society and our economy, so that we invest in higher education as part of our investment in the people and places and the future of this country.</p>

<p>I'd&nbsp;like to thank Julie Morgan for that question. We are aware of Cardiff University's recent announcement on plans to consult with staff and trade unions on compulsory job losses, and the potential closure of course provision. We understand that the university has entered a statutory consultation period with the recognised trade unions concerned, including the University and College Union, and this follows a period of dialogue across university departments.</p>
<p>I'd like to stress that, at challenging times such as this, I would expect institutions to adhere to the principles of social partnership, and that the trade unions and the affected workforce are involved and engaged in the proposed restructuring process, and that students affected by the proposed changes, which I believe include the teaching out of those courses, are fully supported.</p>
<p>I do recognise that the uncertainty is going to cause anxiety for many staff and students. It's essential that proper support for mental health and well-being is available to all those affected, and I know that trade unions and student unions will be making every effort to put that support in place.</p>
<p>The most important point, Llywydd, that I'd like to place on record in this Chamber this afternoon is that we need to see a review of how the HE sector is funded across the UK as a whole. That needs to take into account factors such as the impact of Brexit, changes to visa requirements, the importance of international partnerships and those UK Treasury rules that govern the student finance system, all of which are not in our hands in Wales.</p>
<p>I understand that some work is ongoing in the UK Government, and I expect the Welsh Government to have the opportunity to contribute to this review so that any findings are relevant to the needs of Wales, which will of course always be my primary concern. In fact, I spoke with the UK Government Minister for higher education earlier today to make these points, and we have further meetings arranged early next week to discuss this in more detail.</p>
<p>Sustainable higher education institutions of course are vitally important for the future of Wales. That's why we've taken the difficult decision to maintain the real-terms value of tuition fees in the last two years. That's why Welsh universities continue to be relatively well funded per student compared to other parts of the UK, and indeed internationally, and that's why we provide the most generous student support package to our students, to enable them to access HE whatever their background. That's also why we want to prioritise improving participation and attainment in our schools and colleges over the long term, so that we can increase the numbers of our young people who might aspire to go to university.</p>
<p>I do recognise, of course, the financial pressures that HEIs in Wales are under. Welsh Ministers, officials and Medr will continue regular constructive engagement with sector leaders on this. And to support universities, as well as increasing our tuition fees, we have provided up to £21.9 million in additional income to them, an additional £10 million also to the sector, bringing total grant funding to over £200 million in the current financial year.</p>
<p>We know that our universities are undergoing a significant period of, frankly, painful adjustment following the sudden recent decrease in international postgraduate enrolments. But higher education funding in Wales compares favourably to other UK nations. According to the London Economics research published in 2024, net higher education funding per full-time student home in Wales in 2023-24 was 18 per cent higher than in Scotland, and 22 per cent higher than in Northern Ireland. We expect our funding will be at a comparable level to England now that tuition fees are the same in both nations. So, we must work closely with the UK Government on developing a funding system for higher education that's sustainable, and works for universities, for students and for staff.</p>
<p>If I can turn, then, also to the issue of nursing that you raised there, Julie. Cardiff University has played an important role in our ambition for a sustainable NHS workforce for the future, and we are disappointed that nursing courses form part of these proposals. The Cabinet Secretary for health is working urgently with Health Education and Improvement Wales to ensure that we can train the same number of nurses in Wales.</p>
<p>And then, finally, just turning to the three specific questions that you raised with me, I can confirm that the university is proposing to keep midwifery, allied health professionals and other medical courses in place, and say that they would work to improve their other medical provision. And then, on your question on international student numbers, the data that we have on student numbers in the current and last academic year hasn't yet been published, but we do know from Home Office data that, across the UK, there's been a 14 per cent fall in student visa applications in 2024, compared to 2023. And a survey of 70 UK universities found that 80 per cent reported a decrease in international postgraduate enrolments in September 2024, and overall international postgraduate enrolments declining by 20 per cent. That data really does concur with what universities in Wales have been telling us, and their staff, about declining international enrolments this year.</p>
<p>In terms of your question about what other plans the university might have, the university hasn't advised us of any further restructuring plans. But I do want to re-emphasise that universities are autonomous of Government in making any such decisions.</p>
<p>And finally you asked about the wider impact of the proposals on Cardiff and the region. I've no doubt that responses to the consultation will focus on seeing these changes in terms of their impact on Cardiff and on Wales as a whole, which will of course then be for the university to take into account in their final decisions.</p>

<p>I must say I’m hugely disappointed by your response, Minister, and, in particular, it seemed, listening to your initial response, that there is no problem—Welsh Government has done everything possible. Well, can I ask, therefore, why has the sector been asking the Welsh Government for years now to do more? You say they’re autonomous, but they’ve been asking for greater support. So, why hasn’t that been the case? And what are you going to do now that there is a UK Labour Government? We’ve heard about the partnership in power, but what Julie Morgan didn’t mention was the impact of the national insurance contributions adding to that bill by millions—a UK Labour decision.</p>
<p>So, you must take some accountability in terms of decisions, and also an acknowledgement that Labour has been in charge of education for nearly 26 years. So, we don’t want excuses. We want to know what the plan is. And as my colleague Cefin Campbell asked: what did you know, and when? Because this hasn’t happened overnight. We knew, in the opposition, that this was an issue that needed to be dealt with. We’ve been calling on Welsh Government to do so. So, why haven’t you done so? Why have you let it get to this point?</p>

<p>I'd like to thank Natasha Asghar for those questions. And you began by talking about the well-being of students, and I share your concern for the well-being of students. I know that the National Union of Students branch in Cardiff is very active and will be supporting students through this time. But I reiterate the point that I made to Julie Morgan: I think it is very important that all of us share the responsibility to ensure that the correct facts are available here and that the consultation proposes the teaching out of courses so that no students who are currently enrolled in Cardiff will be affected there.</p>
<p>And in terms of your question about discussions with health boards, the Cabinet Secretary for Health and Social Care is working with Health Education and Improvement Wales, and they, in turn, have those discussions with health boards so that we can ensure that our workforce planning models for nursing and other allied health professions are fulfilled.</p>
<p>But it is really important that we recognise that this is not an issue just for one university here in Wales or for Welsh universities. The issues that we’re facing are issues that have been brought upon us, I’m sorry to say, by the previous UK Conservative Government. So, if we look at the lasting impact of Brexit, the inability that that has given to our HEIs to access research funding—that’s been absolutely catastrophic; the hostile environment for those coming into our country from overseas—that’s a direct result of the previous UK Government's visa changes; and then, of course, we have the rampant inflation that every vice-chancellor has raised with me—the effects of the rampant inflation caused by Liz Truss. [<em>Interruption</em>.] So, those are very important points for us to consider to ensure that we have the full context.</p>

<p>Given that this will be my last contribution in this debate tonight—a number of you will be glad to hear, I'm sure—could I take this opportunity to thank the excellent team of the Health and Social Care Committee for their invaluable support in drafting and tabling these amendments? I also thank Lewis Owen, a great member of staff, for his tireless work throughout the process. And, of course, I thank Sioned Williams, who led on this brief before I took it over, and Siân Gwenllian for her work as the former designated Member during the process of drawing this up, and, of course, thanks to Julie Morgan for the work she has done over decades in this area.</p>
<p>The purpose of our amendments in this group is to give relevant individuals the right to receive support and advice regarding the receipt of direct payments. This is in response to some of the concerns expressed by stakeholders during the scrutiny process that certain individuals are unsure about what switching to a direct payment arrangement would mean for them in practice. During Stage 2, the Minister confirmed that the Government would be willing to give further consideration to this case, and I am very grateful for the constructive discussions that we've had since then in order to achieve our original intention in practice.</p>
<p>We continued to table these amendments as probing amendments, but the discussions have been fruitful and, having heard the Minister's explanation for amendments 33 and 34, which provide the clarity needed in terms of the appropriate information providers, I'm satisfied with the answers and we will therefore withdraw amendments 84, 85 and 86. Thank you very much.</p>

<p>I'd&nbsp;like to thank Julie Morgan for those questions there. I absolutely agree with every word you said about that example that you outlined so powerfully there from your constituent, of how EMA can really help in those individual circumstances. I think it is something we should be really proud of, that we didn't just retain EMA here in Wales when the UK Tory Government scrapped it in 2011, but we have managed, through times of exceptional austerity, to increase the rate of EMA to £40 a week. It's £30 in Scotland and Northern Ireland, so we have that most generous offer in the UK to help our young people with the cost of equipment and transport and so on.</p>
<p>In fact, Julie, across the Cardiff local authority area—you know, you represent one of the Cardiff seats—Cardiff has the highest number of EMA recipients in Wales. The last available data was 1,950, so there are very many young people in your area who are benefiting from EMA, and I thank you for drawing attention to that example there.</p>

<p>Thank you. Over to Julie Morgan.</p>

<p>It's interesting to come off the back of the contribution from Julie Morgan; it does start to sound like the difference between the haves and the have-nots here in Wales. Hearing the words from Julie Morgan there, you'd think that everything's all hunky-dory, which is clearly not the case for far too many people up and down Wales. And that's despite the hard work of doctors, nurses and other health professionals. It's clear that the mismanagement from Labour here in Cardiff Bay is making their jobs more difficult than they should be. And I'm not denigrating the good work that it sounds like is taking place, as Julie Morgan has pointed out, but it's a very different picture up and down Wales, and that's part of the disparity and the issue that we're debating here today.</p>
<p>It's clear that Welsh Labour have broken the system, where targets are consistently missed and patients are left to suffer unnecessarily. And that's not just us saying that, we're well aware of the Audit Wales report pointing to these failures as well. The Welsh Labour Government have consistently failed to hit their 75 per cent target for cancer patients starting treatment within 62 days. I believe a colleague of mine just said a moment ago that that's never been hit—it's never been hit since that target has been in place. What is the Welsh Government doing about this? What's the point of having these targets in place if they're never going to hit them?</p>
<p>Audit Wales said that there's a continuing failure in meeting national performance targets for cancer here in Wales. We do need to see, Cabinet Secretary, a clear time frame for when those targets are going to be met. Surely that would be part of the fix to this broken system that we are seeing here in Wales. Time frames and accountability, though, it seems, are not something that Labour like to have in place. We do need to see much bolder and more ambitious ways of dealing with these targets that need to be met for the good of people up and down Wales.</p>
<p>Audit Wales, as we know, have provided 10 recommendations in their 'Cancer Services in Wales' report, and some of those recommendations include publicly clarifying the status of the cancer improvement plan. I was interested in hearing colleagues describe all the various different plans and strategies that are in place at the moment, and clearly none of them properly working. But Audit Wales have also pointed to the need for closer working with the NHS executive, Digital Health and Care Wales, Public Health Wales and NHS trusts to see a more comprehensive set of publicly available data on cancer services. I'm sure, Cabinet Secretary, you'd acknowledge that there is a need for that data to be clearer, so that people like you can hold others to account for the performance of cancer services.</p>
<p>It's those recommendations from the Audit Wales report and others that form part of the fix to a functioning healthcare system that can effectively treat cancer in Wales. Sadly, we know it's the leading cause of death in our country, when four in 10 annual cancer cases in Wales are preventable. That's a shocking statistic. Out of every 10 cancer cases, four of those are completely preventable, and it's something that we should have a laser-like focus on dealing with.</p>
<p>We've already heard from colleagues,&nbsp;Dirprwy Lywydd, that the big part of fixing the system is staff recruitment and retention. In my part of Wales, in north Wales, we have around three oncologists serving every 100,000 older people. It's no wonder they're at breaking point. We also know, down the track, that around 30 per cent of clinical pathologists are set to retire in the next five years, which shows, again, the need for recruitment.</p>
<p>Another fix that the Government should be looking to implement is the way that it commissions and engages with cross-sector and cross-border services. We know that Wales is brimming with academics and entrepreneurs who want to introduce their research and who want to introduce their products, their ideas and their services, but I've experienced, time and time again, that far too many of those ideas, that research, those products and those services have been held up by the bureaucratic systems and procedures that are in place. That's a great shame, because there are some brilliant ideas out there and some great products that could be implemented very quickly if there were the real will and desire to do so.</p>
<p>That needs to change. We need to see the system fixed, we need to see recruitment and retention improved, and we need to see an end to Labour's chronic mismanagement to turn this thing around and to fix cancer services here in Wales. To that end, I call on colleagues across the Chamber to support our motion this evening. Diolch yn fawr iawn.</p>

<p>Diolch, Dirprwy Lywydd. The diagnosis of cancer is the most devastating news ever, and I should know—and I'll declare an interest because I've just recently witnessed with one of my own nearest and dearest having received that horrendous news—and I would like to put on record my thanks to everybody who works, right from our front line staff, in any department of any hospital. The criticism that we have, let's make no mistake, is against this Welsh Labour Government. Despite increased funding, the Welsh Government continues to struggle with treatment delays, limited capacity, a lack of accountability, leaving many patients at risk, and outcomes way below the UK standards.</p>
<p>A constituent referred under the urgent two-week cancer pathway, a critical lifeline for early diagnosis, was told—face to face they were told—that it would be a 20-week delay due to staffing shortages. So, do you get it, Cabinet Secretary? You're told you've got cancer, you think, 'Well, if I read up here it says this long I have to wait', and then you're told it's gone from two weeks to 20 weeks. That is devastating. Worse still, no specific date was ever provided. Those kinds of delays undermine the referral system and places the patient at significant risk. They remain without clarity about when their biopsy or their treatment will even begin.&nbsp;</p>
<p>James Evans, in opening this debate, eloquently explained about how long-term planning and the need for better and more diagnostic equipment is needed. Too often, we hear of patients attending and presenting with symptoms not once, not twice, not three, not four—sometimes as many as five times before cancer is diagnosed. A rare cancer was eventually identified with another constituent of mine only after intervention after they paid to go and see a private doctor, and the patient referred urgently to Liverpool for specialist care.</p>
<p>Gareth Davies highlighted the scandalous reports we are debating and how treatment in England is seen as far superior to Wales, but people want to have that kind of treatment here in Wales. What is the point of devolution if you can't treat your own patients from Wales in Wales? Twenty-six years you've had to do this, and you've failed.</p>
<p>Delays and reliance on private care are very appreciated, but they're just unacceptable. You spent a 54 per cent increase, in real terms, on cancer spending over 13 years. Much of this funding has been absorbed by rising drug costs and advanced treatments, leaving insufficient resources to expand any capacity. Additionally, automated diagnostic systems essential for efficiency remain underdeveloped. No health board yet has met the target of starting treatment for 75 per cent of cancer patients within 62 days of referral, since August 2020. You're going backwards. Within the Betsi Cadwaladr health board, only 51 per cent of patients are seen within such a time frame.</p>
<p>Wales's cancer mortality rate is the second highest in the UK, trailing only Scotland. Alarmingly, less survivable cancers such as pancreatic, lung and gall bladder cancers are frequently diagnosed at stage 4, where survival rates are the lowest. In January 2024, the less survivable cancers taskforce revealed Wales ranks among the worst globally for survival rates in stomach, pancreatic, lung and brain cancers. Other Members have mentioned lifestyle—oh, Mabon—and the demographic trends, and the work that Tenovus Wales does. The absence of national lung checks for high-risk populations—you know, for smokers over 55—impedes early detection. Under-reporting of cancer patients' ethnicity compounds these challenges, with data captured for only 15 per cent to 50 per cent of patients, despite mandates under the single cancer pathway.</p>
<p>I must thank those who are working in our hospices, but they're doing it against a backdrop of reduced funding. And I have to ask you, it is a well-known fact that, for every £1 you put in hospice funding, by God you get a really good outcome at the end of it. And it does make me wonder, if those people weren't in those hospices that are struggling to provide the best-quality care, you would be picking up the tab for those patients also.</p>
<p>Sam Kurtz on how Wales is failing its cancer targets: thirty-second out of 33 for stomach cancer. He talked about lung cancer as well. Two hundred lives could be saved—prevention being more important. Julie Morgan—thanks, Julie, for highlighting just how wonderful Velindre is, and I would agree with you. They've got not some of the, but they've got the best diagnostic technology treatments and care that we in the north could only dream about. Sadly, not anyone, even my constituents, can access the quality of service that you've been talking about. 'The best in Europe'; it should be the best in Wales. We should be the best in Europe as a country, with our health service. Radiotherapy machines—basically telling us, Julie, if you don't mind me saying, if you live in Cardiff, you'll have a better life chance if diagnosed with cancer. There is an obvious postcode lottery here in Wales in terms of geographic—[<em>Interruption</em>.] Yes.</p>

<p>There has been some confusion&nbsp;about the cancer improvement plan. It is the NHS's response to the Welsh Government's quality statement. It reflects their planning intentions and we are monitoring how it's being implemented. Dirprwy Lywydd, improving cancer services has been and continues to be a priority, and I was grateful to Julie Morgan for reminding us of our investment in cutting-edge new facilities at Velindre, for example. Every year we hold a national summit on cancer, bringing together all NHS senior leaders to focus on improving performance to meet the target of 75 per cent of people starting first definitive treatment within 62 days, reducing the backlog of people waiting more than 62 days, and, crucially, implementing consistently across Wales the national cancer pathways.</p>
<p>Every month, senior Welsh Government officials, supported by the NHS executive, meet every health board to focus on cancer performance and the actions they're taking to improve it. This is in addition to the architecture of half-yearly accountability for all other services. We also bring together NHS cancer managers and senior clinicians to share service intelligence, good practice and learning.</p>
<p>Performance against the 62-day target has stabilised and there are examples of real progress in some parts of Wales. We know, for example, that one-stop service approaches for certain cancers can drive performance to well above the target percentage, as it does in Wales. Cardiff and Vale University Health Board has achieved more than 70 per cent, as Members have indicated in the debate already today, and record numbers of people receive the good news that they do not have cancer every month, but there is still much more work to do. There is far too much variation between health boards against the 62-day target, and between cancer types.</p>
<p>We fund the NHS executive to provide a package of cancer recovery support, delivered by expert clinicians and programme managers working with health boards to change how cancer pathways and service models work. The initial phase of the work has focused on the cancer types where service improvements are expected to see the biggest impact on performance, in breast, skin, gynaecological, lower gastrointestinal and neurological cancers. The programme aims to improve productivity and efficiency by driving change in how health boards deliver care consistently, and this includes sending people with suspected cancer straight to test without a need for an out-patient appointment. We've invested hundreds of millions of pounds, as we've heard today already, in facilities, in diagnostic and in treatment equipment.</p>
<p>But improving cancer outcomes and survival rates goes beyond cancer services, as we've heard in the debate today; Sioned Williams spoke very powerfully on this issue. We have to focus on prevention too. We have been successful in reducing smoking rates in Wales and the introduction of the human papillomavirus vaccination, for example, will play an important role in reducing and, hopefully, eliminating over time cases of cervical cancer. But we're at a point, Dirprwy Lywydd, where obesity is poised to overtake smoking as the No. 1 cause of preventable ill health. Being overweight and obesity has been linked with 13 different types of cancer.&nbsp; &nbsp;</p>
<p>On the screening we want to see, in addition to the progression that we've seen for bowel cancer screening, I've asked for advice from Public Health Wales on the implementation of a national lung cancer screening programme to be brought forward by six months, enabling me to take an earlier decision.</p>
<p>Dirprwy Lywydd, I want to close my contribution to the debate by actually welcoming the Audit Wales report. It's unequivocal in its conclusion that we are committed to improving cancer services but that there is more to do, and it has very useful recommendations. I also want to pay tribute to everyone across the NHS delivering high-quality care for the people of Wales. As our population ages, as we've heard today, and the capability of what the NHS can do continues to evolve, it's important to recognise that the sustainability of services will depend on how we can create the capacity to diagnose and treat people within the time frames that we need. This is a challenge being faced across the UK, but I will continue to focus our NHS on improving access to high-quality care so we can achieve the best possible outcomes for everyone facing a cancer diagnosis.&nbsp;&nbsp;</p>

<p>Thank you, Llywydd. Last week, I had the pleasure of helping the Royal College of Speech and Language Therapists to celebrate their eightieth birthday here at the Senedd. I had the opportunity to hear for myself about the positive and significant impact the therapists have had on the lives of individuals. As we’re all very aware, the ability to communicate enhances the relationships between people and helps us to collaborate and co-operate. It’s key to who we are and to our daily lives, and that’s why therapists play such an important role in helping to develop language skills, speech skills and the communication skills of so many adults and children across Wales. But what’s less familiar, perhaps, is their work in ensuring, as we heard during the debate, that people can swallow, eat and drink safely.</p>
<p>Since the establishment of the college 80 years ago, and the health service a few years later, we’ve learnt a great deal. We now know far more about the complex way the brains of those who can speak more than one language work, for example, in creating and understanding language, as we heard in the debate. This was the basis for the decision to fund a speech and language therapy programme at Wrexham University, as Llyr Gruffydd and Julie Morgan have mentioned already, and to keep placements for Welsh speakers particularly. The new graduates from this programme, in addition to those who graduate from the Cardiff Met programme, assist us to deliver the objectives of ‘More than just words’, the framework for promoting the Welsh language in health and social care. Cardiff Met University has been providing education training through the medium of Welsh for many years.</p>
<p>Llywydd, speech, language and communication skills are important, as we heard, in terms of general well-being. Good skills can help to improve the outcomes for individuals throughout their lives. It includes things like academic attainment, access to employment, strong mental health and positive social relationships. Helping children to develop language, speech and communication skills during the early years reduces inequalities for those who are most disadvantaged, and that is why speech and language therapists are part of all Flying Start services, as we heard, and this has been a deliberate decision, as Julie Morgan mentioned.</p>

<p>I'm slightly disappointed by your answer, Cwnsler Cyffredinol, because you told me on 1 October that you would respond to the evaluation of CASCADE by Christmas or earlier. Now it seems to have been pushed over to the summer. You'll be aware of the Senedd's Children, Young People and Education Committee's report, published in May 2023, and it recommended the implementation of a family, drug and alcohol court. Julie Morgan, who was then Deputy Minister, said that she was absolutely convinced of the value of the problem-solving family court model. That was Welsh Government back in May 2023. The CASCADE evaluation was published in January 2024, a year ago. The analysis concludes that the court costs £18,000 but produces an average direct benefit of over £74,000 per case.&nbsp;</p>
<p>Now, you heard me on the last occasion quoting a family circuit judge at the problem-solving court saying how beneficial the court was to families and to children. Keeping children out of care is so important and we're not doing enough at the moment here in Wales. So, when do you hope we will re-establish the family, drug and alcohol court here in Wales and open others in other areas in Wales? Diolch yn fawr.&nbsp;</p>

<p>Diolch yn fawr, Julie Morgan, and thank you for sharing with us your extensive experience, knowledge, understanding and awareness of the impact of genocide and what it means to every person, every individual. As I mentioned, those targeted were those who were deemed to be different. They are humanity. This is about humanity in all its wonderful diversity being affected. And also, from your experience of visiting countries like Rwanda, it's to understand and to learn those lessons for a better future.&nbsp;</p>
<p>It is important that we are continuing to fund the Holocaust Educational Trust, and you'll be aware of this, but many will have met the young people who come back. The Lessons from Auschwitz project offers 156 places every year to learners from sixth forms and further education colleges across Wales. I do remember Sam Kurtz previously reflected on the value he found in a visit as a schoolchild to Auschwitz, and, of course, learning about pre-war Jewish life, the former Nazi death and concentration camp, and then thinking what's important—back to the critical thinking—considering the contemporary relevance of the Holocaust. All student participants will become Holocaust Educational Trust ambassadors, and that influences their whole life choices and life experiences, and they do share, as ambassadors, their knowledge in Welsh communities. So, this is an investment in our young people, and also, as we've mentioned, in the curriculum as well, because I think this is something where tackling discrimination and racism means school leadership teams, teachers, other staff, learners and the wider school community play a critical role in delivering our vision for an anti-racist Wales education sector.</p>
<p>With this curriculum, let's remind ourselves, we're the first nation in the UK to make it mandatory to teach black, Asian and minority ethnic histories and experiences. It's a cross-cutting theme, diversity, for the new Curriculum for Wales, so that young people can learn to be ethically informed citizens. And I think many of you—if you haven't already—have visited schools where the diversity and anti-racist professional learning has helped the schools to learn how they can use those tools to carry out anti-racist practice, and I think it's very inspiring. I went to one just very recently in Cardiff where primary school children were so well informed, so educated, so questioning and so proud of their diversity in that school—you know, we can learn from them as well. But this is the context about 'for a better future'.</p>

<p>Good morning. I'd like to welcome Members to this meeting of the Culture, Communications, Welsh Language, Sport and International Relations Committee. Do Members have any declarations of interest? I don't see that there are any. So, we'll move straight on.</p>
<p>Firstly, I'd like to welcome a new member to the committee, Gareth Davies. A very warm welcome to you, Gareth. I'd also like to take this opportunity to record our thanks on behalf of the committee to Laura Anne Jones. We wish her well, and thank her for her work. I'd also like to note apologies from Mick Antoniw, and welcome Julie Morgan, who is substituting today. Thank you very much. We've also received apologies from Lee Waters.</p>

<p>Well, I think that the committee can see investments and activities in the area of the Welsh language across the entire Government. I want to pay tribute for the moment to the work of Jeremy Miles when he was responsible for the Welsh language. He funded a project on leading in a bilingual nation. And he came to Cabinet meetings every six months to pull people together on the Welsh language agenda across the entire Government. And I’m not going to do it because we don’t have enough time, but I’m sure I could go through all the Cabinet members to show where they are doing things that are relevant to the Welsh language, and helping us in our cross-governmental effort to grow the number of Welsh speakers, and to grow the use of the Welsh language as well.</p>
<p>So, in the area of economy, Rebecca Evans is responsible for Arfor, and I had an opportunity to speak to her yesterday about the future of the Arfor programme in the context of the recommendations of the Welsh Language Commissioner in communities where Welsh is used every day.</p>
<p>Jeremy and the team who work with him are responsible for childcare, and we have succeeded in undertaking very good work, I think, under the co-operation agreement. But the increase in childcare, and particularly those who receive care through the medium of Welsh—. Well, Julie Morgan knows about this because she was responsible for that programme. We have gone beyond everything that we expected to do in the first two years, and we’re preparing now for the third year. We were discussing on the floor of the Senedd the relationship between what I do and what Lynne Neagle is doing when we were considering the Bill on Tuesday.</p>
<p>And in the area of second homes, a number of Ministers have an interest in the radical policies that we’ve developed during this Senedd term, and the purpose of those policies is to protect communities where Welsh is used every day, and to provide more support for local authorities to continue to help local people who wish to speak Welsh in all aspects of their everyday lives.</p>
<p>So, across the Government, I think, there is not one single member of Cabinet who doesn’t have an interest, but they also have a responsibility to help us in these efforts with the Welsh language.</p>

<p>Thanks, Carolyn. It's a key Government priority, boosting attendance. I announced a little while ago additional money in-year for supporting attendance. For the forthcoming financial year there’s an additional £7 million in the budget to support attendance, and £3 million of that money is to have additional family engagement officers. There’s some additional money for community-focused schools work, because, obviously, that underpins the work of the family engagement officers.</p>
<p>We’re also investing additional money in enrichment activities in schools, because we want our schools to be really appealing places, and particularly to appeal to learners who are really not very keen to come to school. But we’ve also announced an additional £1 million for the school holiday enrichment programme, to make sure that we can expand that. That’s on the back of the review that Julie Morgan MS did, because school holidays have an important role to play in keeping children and young people connected to their schools.</p>
<p>In terms of efficacy of family engagement officers, obviously, it’s still early days. We established the attendance taskforce, which has now completed its work. As part of that, family engagement officers emerged as a really good way of tackling attendance. It’s also been raised with us by Estyn, in the regular discussions I’ve had with school leaders and in the visits that I go on, headteacher round-tables—all of them have spoken really powerfully about the role that family engagement officers can play.</p>
<p>The reasons for not attending school are really complex; there is no one silver bullet—it could be additional learning needs, it could be mental health, it could be school transport, it could be not having the clothes to wear to go to school—and what family engagement officers do is they can do that detailed work with families to break down those barriers and it’s all through building relationships, so I feel really, really positive, and I think the sector will very much welcome the help with that work and we’re seeing really good practice on that. But, obviously, as with all things where we’re spending money, we will be evaluating and monitoring the efficacy of that, and we’ve established now a network of family engagement officers across Wales. Officials meet with them regularly; I’ve met with them as well, so we’ve got that dialogue to hear from them on the ground. And I’ve got to say, the work they’re doing, I’ve been really inspired by it. I think it’s absolutely brilliant, and it also helps with the workforce challenges, because teachers and school leaders can’t do all this work themselves if they’re going to be focused on the business of education.</p>

<p>Julie Morgan.</p>

<p>Very good. Well, I'll resist the temptation to pursue you on food justice; we can come back to that in a moment. Let's just move on and discuss things by individual themes, so, Julie Morgan.</p>

<p>Thank you very much. Good afternoon. I would like to go back a little bit to what you were discussing with Julie Morgan in terms of the importance of the third sector. You mentioned how important they were in terms of that preventative impact that your budget is trying to support. Also, you have acknowledged the increase that there's been in the demand for them, and also the impact of the pandemic and the cost-of-living crisis on their ability to be funded, and austerity, of course—the austerity of the previous Government played a part in that too. But, you haven't been able to give us this afternoon information relating to your assessment of the impact of the increase in their costs—for example, the increase in the national insurance contributions. So, without that information, how can you be confident that the increase that you've mentioned—that 7 per cent and the 3 per cent—is going to be sufficient to meet the increasing demand and also to make sure that the sector is sustainable? Because we have received a letter to the committee today from Tenovus and they used the word 'unsustainable' and really want the Welsh Government to make that good, to mitigate the effect of this increase in third sector costs. Because it's them, in truth—and you have said this this afternoon—who provide that necessary support and that preventative support for the people who most need our support in society.</p>

<p>Okay. This is a really important subject, but I think we're going to have to foreshorten this discussion and focus on the specifics of the budget at the time. So, was there anything further you, Julie Morgan, wanted to say about young people leaving care?</p>

<p>Diolch yn fawr, Julie Morgan. The third sector plays a key role in tackling loneliness and isolation, supported through a range of Welsh Government programmes, including the £1.5 million loneliness and isolation fund, the £10 million sustainable social services third sector grant, the £5.7 million third sector grant scheme, 20 per cent of the £146 million regional integration fund, and £1.5 million for warm hubs.</p>

<p>Questions to the First Minister next. The first question this afternoon is from Julie Morgan.</p>

<p>I'd like to thank Julie Morgan for raising the case of the report by Jan Pickles into the abuse that went on on Caldey island, and I look forward to the debate that we need to have on how we prevent this abuse going on, not necessarily undetected, but unheard.</p>
<p>I was very pleased to read that the UK Government has now reversed the perverse decision by Robert Jenrick, as Minister for Immigration, to limit to a shameful seven days the time from which asylum seekers have to move into their own accommodation once they become refugees. I wondered if you, in your capacity as Cabinet Secretary for Social Justice, are able to give us some indication of the letter that's gone to local authorities, to extend it back to 56 days as a pilot, and then review it in June. I know that, for Cardiff Council, this is a particularly important issue. There were over 700 people who had to be rehoused last year, and, obviously, a similar number, no doubt, this year. And, as Cardiff Council has a policy of housing first and not having anybody sleeping on the street, this is a huge challenge for Cardiff Council. So, is there anything further that you're able to tell us about how we give people a reasonable amount of time to try and find somewhere to live, once they no longer are asylum seekers?</p>

<p>Thank you very much, Julie Morgan, for raising this very important issue. And, as you say, the Diocese of Menevia and current abbot of Caldey island commissioned this independent review on non-recent sexual abuse that took place from the 1960s onwards. The final report has been shared with us, and we're looking at findings and recommendations. But, as you say, we must be grateful to those survivors who have had the courage to pursue this independent review, and we thank them sincerely for engaging in the process, which must have been exceptionally hard to do. Indeed, in 2025, importantly, we're consulting&nbsp;on our national strategy for preventing and responding to child sexual abuse. The fundamental aim of the strategy is to ensure that children, their families and communities understand what child sexual abuse is and what perpetrator behaviours look like, and to empower people to report their concerns to police and social services.</p>

<p>Thank you so much, Julie Morgan. It does give me an opportunity as well just to reiterate what I've said to many women here today, which is that I'm standing on the shoulders of giants here, a phrase that my colleague Hannah Blythyn uses often and I feel is very appropriate. I get to stand here today and be the person who gets to deliver this in the Chamber, but, oh my goodness, there has been so much that has gone into this and so many generations. I would say, Julie Morgan, that you are one of my inspirations and one of the reasons why I'm here today having the opportunity to do this. I've learnt so much from you about inequalities.&nbsp;</p>
<p>I just want to say that it was absolutely wonderful to go and see that Welsh NHS psychology-led bereavement service, the first and only one in Wales. Again, it comes back to what I was saying earlier on: there are so many good things happening across our NHS to tackle these inequalities, and it is usually a group of some very tenacious people. I've met many of them, these clusters that we have in every health board, where it starts off with a few and then it grows, and they make the case for funding and they make the case for services. They're absolutely fantastic and I'm absolutely in awe of all of them, and this is exactly one of those projects.</p>
<p>They have the rainbow group, they have the&nbsp;onnen group—it's so experience led. When I went to the launch, I got to see a mum talking about her experience of losing her little boy. She was pregnant again, and they were really getting her through that anxiety that she understandably felt. I also went and visited the Cardiff and Vale midwife team, which is at the University Hospital of Wales, and met with the bereavement midwives. I just wanted to add as well that, when we have these specialisms and we maybe have one or two people per health board, it's difficult, then, to have that resilience embedded in the infrastructure, in the team. If one person is not in, then this is when things can go very wrong. That's something that I'm very, very conscious of in the NHS workforce planning.</p>
<p>Also, just to say, I think it's tremendous—I think it's made a huge, huge difference. I think Dr Douglass is very inspiring, and I would love to see this rolled out, and it is something that we can certainly—I will certainly—ask the NHS clinical network to look at, please.</p>

<p>Thank you. Can I call Julie Morgan now, please?</p>

<p>Good luck on that one. Julie Morgan, would you like to come in at this point?</p>

<p>Item 4 is the 90-second statements. The first statement will be by Julie Morgan.</p>

<p>Dirprwy Lywydd, like to thank my colleague Hefin David for tabling this debate this afternoon, and for the contributions from Members, particularly Sioned Williams and Mark Isherwood, who have been so involved with this campaign. I'm grateful for the opportunity to provide a further update about the work that we are leading in relation to adult learning disability in-patient services, and our response to the concerns raised by the Stolen Lives campaign.</p>
<p>I want to start by saying that we agree that a hospital bed is not a home. We believe that people with learning disabilities and autism should be cared for in their local community, at home, or as close to home as possible wherever practical. No-one wants to see a return to the dark days where people with learning disabilities were institutionalised. We never want to return to those days that Julie Morgan just referenced. And absolutely, of course there is more that we can and are doing to ensure people with learning disabilities have a home that they can call their own.</p>
<p>The latest data that we have shows that, in October, there were 140 adults with a learning disability who were receiving ongoing care in an in-patient setting; 22 were in England. This is not good enough. We are working to reduce&nbsp;the number of people who are living away like this. This is a priority in our learning disability strategic action plan, and I want to thank the Stolen Lives campaign for the increased focus it has brought to this. I am acutely aware that there are no quick fixes. We need to make systemic, sustainable, affordable changes to services, to make sure that they are able to flex and adapt to meet the varied needs of different people, that wraparound that Hefin&nbsp;David talked about, not people having to fit in to a system that isn't working for them.</p>
<p>Many of the concerns about learning disability in-patient services were highlighted in the 2020 review 'Improving Care, Improving Lives', which the Welsh Government commissioned. It made 70 recommendations for the Welsh Government, health boards, local authorities, care providers and the third sector about how services can be improved. In early 2022, as we emerged from the pandemic, we set up the learning disability national implementation and assurance group to deliver on those recommendations. A significant amount of progress has been made, thanks to a huge amount of co-production with professionals and people with lived experience, who were at the heart of this work. I received an interim progress report from the learning disability national implementation and assurance group, and I expect a full update about progress against all 70 of the report's recommendations by April 2025. I will ensure that this is published and, of course, shared with Members of the Senedd.</p>
<p>This group has been instrumental in reviewing some of the key issues that impact in-patient services, including timely transition, crisis care and early intervention, and improving non-pharmaceutical intervention. Its advice—</p>

<p>The first item of business this afternoon is questions to the Cabinet Secretary for Housing and Local Government, and the first question is from Julie Morgan.</p>

<p>And that's Will's story, isn't it? That was Will's story that you read out. That was exactly what happened.&nbsp;It was very similar with Jack. They end up in these circumstances where meltdowns are almost encouraged to happen, because of bright lights, because of noises, because of confinement. So, it's almost a self-perpetuating problem. And that lack of progress, I think Sioned raised, but also the issue that Mark raised of data, and the fact that we don't know where these people are, and there may be people hidden away that we're just not aware of today. Mark said that someone told him, 'My child was stolen.' That's incredible. That's incredible. And sometimes, I think we don't know where they are, right now, and I'm glad that the Minister's committed to gathering that data.</p>
<p>Jenny Rathbone mentioned some positive things in the community. One thing I would say, yes, it's great to have these services, but we need to remember that not all autistic people have a learning disability, not all autistic people will have a mental health condition, and also autistic people may end up with depression, may end up with dreadful thoughts, but that's as a result of the circumstances they find themselves in, not because of an intrinsic link with autism.</p>
<p>And Carolyn, the Petitions Committee, I can see Dawn up in the gallery—you've put into the Petitions Committee as well, then? I think that's really good. It's a belt-and-braces approach, so we could have another debate, which would be really good. I think it's really the right thing to do. You can see that what Dawn Cavanagh is doing is getting her story out across this Chamber, using every single mechanism that is available to her. These are people in desperate circumstances. I don't think that they'll be satisfied or content with the Minister's words, because when you've seen your family treated in this way, you cannot be content, you cannot be satisfied, you will never be satisfied, but you will, eventually, hopefully, see progress and a path to helping people much like your own family.</p>
<p>Julie Morgan reminds us how far we've come. I almost put that in my speech, actually, because there were people in the 1970s, like my daughter, who would be in hospital permanently in those years. There's still—I've mentioned it before—there's a programme, <em>That's Life</em>, on YouTube, and the first ever episode highlighted exactly that: those young people who were held in hospital today would be recognised as autistic and would be living in their communities. So, yes, we've come a long way, but at the same time, we don't have the data on those young people&nbsp;who are still being held in those very similar circumstances against their will. So, we still need to make progress on that.</p>
<p>I also come back to the task and finish group, that we have, I think, as the Minister said, a clear overview of what we want to achieve, but also I think you need to recognise that the&nbsp;Stolen Lives campaigners are not politicians. Many of them are not used to working with civil servants, so they won't know quite whether what they're being told is the right answer. And sometimes they hear things like, 'Well, we're already doing that, we're already doing that', well, that's not good enough, and I would say to you as Minister to please keep an overview of what your officials are telling the group, because they need to understand that this isn't just them being fobbed off. And I know you get that, because we had that conversation outside the Chamber yesterday.</p>
<p>I'd like to massively thank everybody who's made a contribution to this debate today. We are pushing progress forward here, and I know, Sioned, you feel it should be faster—I agree. But it is progress, and I want to see the Stolen Lives team involved in that progress and driving it every step of the way. And I'd just like to say a massive thank you to them for being here today.</p>

<p>Thank you very much. And can I place on record my gratitude to Julie Morgan for the work that she's done on the review of SHEP? I know how committed you are to the life chances of our children and young people, and I've been really grateful to you. I know that you've been out and about looking at the SHEP schemes, and have done a really important piece of work for us. And, as you say, it's also about holding on to children and young people, isn't it, through the summer. They've had the opportunity to have healthy food, but they're also engaged and connected with their peers.</p>
<p>We've got the budget next week, and it will be a question of waiting until we've heard the budget announcement, but as I said in my statement, I am really keen to build on the work that you've done and the evidence that you've gathered, and what we know is working on the ground. We're also, as part of this work, looking at enrichment activities as part of the school day as well.&nbsp;What we want is for children to want to come into school, and it's important that we all work together to do that. But thank you again for everything that you've done on the review—much appreciated.</p>

<p>And finally, Julie Morgan.</p>

<p>I'd like to thank my colleague Julie Morgan for raising such an important question. As has been mentioned, unfortunately 60 per cent of those in the youth justice system have speech and language difficulties. This rises up to a staggering 79 per cent within the Neath Port Talbot council area. From your time as health Minister, you'll know about the link between speech and language issues and early childhood hearing loss, and I wonder, First Minister, has a study ever been conducted on the hearing abilities of those within the youth justice system and, if not, would you commit to analysing it? Thank you.&nbsp;</p>

<p>Okay. So, before I hand over to Julie Morgan, I just want to tie down—. Ross, you talked about four national companies that you're working with because they can now deliver end to end. Are you talking about four Welsh companies or four British companies?</p>

<p>Thank you very much. Can I bring in Julie Morgan?</p>

<p>Okay, fine. We'll move on to Julie Morgan.</p>

<p>Hang on. I think Ben Saltmarsh wanted to comment, and Julie Morgan. Do you want to ask your question first?</p>

<p>Okay. Thank you. Can we move on to Julie Morgan, please?</p>

<p>Thank you very much, Chair, and it was a really important point of action that the Welsh Government took, back in 2021, following the 'Locked out' report. In fact, I recall it well. It was myself and the then First Minister Mark Drakeford, and other Ministers, even possibly Julie Morgan in her previous role: we wanted to make it a cross-Government response, because it was covering all policy areas. I said earlier on that we also agreed that it should be co-produced on the basis of the social model of disability, and we did turn to the forum, the disability equality forum, for assistance and guidance. You will know the disability equality forum, and you've received evidence from them. I'm meeting them, actually, on Thursday, and we'll be talking about the progress in terms of publishing the disability rights action plan, which of course comes after the disability rights taskforce.</p>
<p>Well, you know the number of working groups that were brought out of the work that started on the disability rights taskforce. Those working groups are all really important. You've mentioned the income and employment working group, but there are a number of other working groups as well. Independent living was the first one that we worked on, but I have to say that the disability rights taskforce wanted to see embedding an understanding of the social model of disability as a work stream in itself, as well as looking at independent living, health, children and young people. Access to justice came quite further on into our deliberations, because there was a recognition that perhaps that was missing, so that came in later. And well-being as well. So, what happened was, as we worked through the taskforce, there were other policy areas that came forward. So, in fact, the final two work stream reports didn't conclude their business and their work until June of this year.</p>
<p>So, we now need to get this adopted by Welsh Government across all ministerial areas. I've been having bilaterals over the last few weeks with all Cabinet Secretaries and Ministers about their commitment to the disability rights taskforce and what has come through it. Every time we actually concluded the work of a work stream, we then presented it and met with the Minister at the time. I remember the employment and income work stream back in December. In&nbsp;fact, Vaughan Gething came to hear the recommendations, because it was very important that all of the recommendations were presented by this co-produced taskforce and the work streams. I think it's important that we now progress with it. If June was the last two reports, as I said, we'll take those recommendations now to Cabinet and then consult fully on the outcomes of them.</p>
<p>I think it's been a really interesting example of co-production.&nbsp;You can't rush co-production, although there's a frustration then about, 'Well, when are you going to deliver the recommendations?', and you have got to get cross-Government engagement. That's where, Stephen, you and others across Government certainly had to then engage at official level, and you may want to just comment on how you felt you were engaged, and perhaps Neil as well. Lorna, of course, very much helping with her teams to drive this. So, it's really important now that we do get this right.</p>
<p>I mean, back in 2019, I actually launched the last iteration of action for independent living, which was very much cross Government. I remember launching it at the Bridgend disabled people's organisation, and it covered all of the range of areas that this taskforce is covering, and I recall then there was a feeling that it wasn't going to go far enough. One of the key work streams, I would say, for example, was travel and transport as well as access to services, including communications and technology, because those were some of the lessons that were coming out of the pandemic about, 'Did we appropriately access disabled people during the pandemic?'</p>
<p>Access to justice came in later on because there was a recognition that there were injustices to disabled people, some of which, of course, were not devolved in terms of the way we needed to address that with the UK Government as well. So, the disability equality forum has met throughout this period, alongside the disability rights taskforce, and co-production was the commitment, independent living, of course, and access to justice was key, that we got that right. But I don't think we've stopped. When I look at some of the recommendations, we've actually started to implement some of them.</p>
<p>I've mentioned the disability evidence unit. Well, pre pandemic, we didn't have such a thing as a disability evidence unit; we didn't have a race evidence unit. We set that up, and I'm sure you will want to ask how things are going, but if you look at the report that they published in May of this year, quite a lot of their actions related—and I've mentioned one of them already—to the importance of the disability rights taskforce, and they continue to play a role in that, including—and this goes back to cross-Government work—looking at barriers to employment for disabled people, which is an active part of their work programme.</p>

<p>Okay. We'll move on to Julie Morgan, who's got some questions around your relationship with employers.</p>

<p>Thank you, great. Julie Morgan.&nbsp;</p>

<p>Diolch, Julie Morgan. I have met the UK Minister for victims in the Ministry of Justice, Alex Davies-Jones, who is keen to engage and learn from our work in Wales, and the UK Minister for victims in the Home Office, Jess Phillips, who has demonstrated a long-standing commitment to tackle violence against women.</p>