Employment Rights Bill (Twenty First sitting)

Justin Madders Excerpts

Committee stage
Thursday 16th January 2025 Public Bill Committees

[Steve Darling (Torbay) (LD)]

It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Sir Christopher. I rise to strongly support the new clause. We have seen throughout our debates in Committee that there are opportunities for changing the weather around our employment world, whether it is around foster carers, adoption or volunteering—the subject of new clause 38, championed by my hon. Friend the Member for Woking (Mr Forster), which we will discuss later.

I hope that this new clause falls on fertile ground because, as the hon. Member for Bridgwater has highlighted, volunteering across the piece has significantly reduced. We need to change the weather around the employment world and make sure that people feel able and confident to volunteer, as we know that policing is a particular challenge.

I welcome the Government’s plans to invest in neighbourhood policing. Special officers are often involved in that. People feel confident when they see a uniformed officer on the street. The public do not care whether it is a paid officer or a special officer; it is a trusted individual. The more we can drive that agenda, as I know from my residents in Torbay, the more it will be welcomed. I look forward to a strong endorsement from the Minister.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Business and Trade (Justin Madders)]

It is a pleasure to see you in the Chair this morning, Sir Christopher. I start by referring to my entry in the Register of Members’ Financial Interests. I congratulate the hon. Member for Bridgwater on the new clause and join him in paying tribute to his constituent Emma-Elizabeth Murphy and all special constables who perform the vital work that Members have spoken in support of. We recognise and value the vital role that special constables play, which includes supporting neighbourhood policing. We are committed to ensuring that police forces have the support that they need from the Government to tackle important matters of public safety.

Special constables, along with the full range of police volunteers, bring valuable and diverse skills that complement the roles that officers and staff play in delivering the best service to the public. We recognise that there has been a fall in the number of special constables over recent years. Further work needs to be done to understand exactly the reasons for that. Initial consideration suggests that a range of factors has led to the reduction in the number of special constables. It is not clear whether the new clause would reverse that trend or what its impact on business would be—the hon. Member for Bridgwater has been a constant critic of the Bill’s impact on businesses—so we need to understand that better.

We are already doing a range of work to support special constables and employment rights more broadly. We are introducing the neighbourhood policing guarantee, which will put thousands of additional police officers, police community support officers and special constables on our streets and restore patrols in town centres across the country.

Many employers already support their employees to volunteer in a special constabulary. Under the Employer Supported Policing scheme, led by the National Police Chiefs’ Council, a number of organisations across a range of sectors have committed to supporting members of their workforce to serve as special constables, in recognition of the opportunities to build new skills and support local communities. The Home Office is also supporting the NPCC to develop and implement initiatives to improve the recruitment and retention of special constables. That includes developing a refreshed national citizens in policing strategy and a national special constabulary working group.

I will not be able to accept the new clause, but I am sympathetic to the case that has been made. In preparation for dealing with it, I learned that that the initial legislation that introduced time off for certain public duties is now 50 years old, so it seems time to consider this issue in the round, and the role of special constables will no doubt be included in that. The Home Office will clearly have an important say. As I said, a number of factors has led to the decline in the number of special constables in recent years.

[Greg Smith]

The new clause has been tabled for some weeks now. Has the Minister engaged with the Home Secretary, the Policing Minister or any officials in the Home Office? Have they presented a view on this proposal yet?

[Justin Madders]

We have had various discussions within the Department. Information has gone over to the Home Office, and we are waiting for a response. Obviously, I cannot speak for the Home Office, so I cannot set out its position. As I say, I think it is time more generally to consider all the legislation relating to the right to time off for public duties. It is too soon to accept this new clause, but I hope the hon. Member for Bridgwater is assured that we are taking this issue seriously and considering it.

[Sir Ashley Fox]

Although I am disappointed that the Minister has not accepted the new clause, I will withdraw it at this stage. I can count 10 Government Members and only five on the Opposition Benches, so my chances of success in a Division would be limited. I hope the new clause can find its way back into the Bill, perhaps in another place. I beg to ask leave to withdraw the motion.

Clause, by leave, withdrawn.

New Clause 35

Carer’s leave: remuneration

“(1) In section 80K of the Employment Rights Act 1996, omit subsection (3) and insert—

‘(3) In subsection (1)(a), “terms and conditions of employment”—

(a) includes matters connected with an employee’s employment whether or not they arise under the contract of employment, and

(b) includes terms and conditions about remuneration.’”—(Steve Darling.)

This new clause would make Carer’s Leave a paid entitlement.

Brought up, and read the First time.

--- Later in debate ---

[Greg Smith]

I listened carefully to what the hon. Member for Torbay said. On one level, I would be interested to know why the Liberal Democrats think the expansion is needed, where the shortfalls are in the current right to be accompanied, and what benefits the new right would bring. I think that what the hon. Gentleman is proposing could be done through existing legislation in many respects.

That said, representatives of the charity and third sector who seek to represent those in the teaching profession have welcomed the new clause, because the teaching unions have a bit of a monopoly at the moment. Although my mother has been retired for many years, she always joined a union through considerably gritted teeth—she may have been the only Conservative in the staff room, but she gritted her teeth. In fact, she may even have taught for many years in the constituency of the hon. Member for Birmingham Northfield. The teaching unions have that monopoly because of the insurances and so on that they give to teachers. The new clause would widen things out and allow teachers who do not wish to join a union to get the support they need—accompaniment at a hearing—from a charity or third sector organisation, which may be welcome.

We need more clarity on the impact that would have on the teaching profession, which is why we do not think the new clause should be accepted at this time. However, the hon. Member for Torbay has opened the door on an area that it is important for us to explore as the Bill proceeds, and perhaps in future legislation.

[Justin Madders]

I thank the hon. Member for Torbay for tabling the new clause. I think its origins are in written evidence to the Committee from the edu-legal organisation Edapt, which has been raising this issue with successive Governments for a number of years.

It is important to set out the position under current law. Section 10(3) of the Employment Relations Act 1999 explains that when a worker is asked to attend a disciplinary or grievance hearing they are entitled to bring a companion who is either a fellow worker, an official employed by a trade union, or a workplace trade union representative that the union has reasonably certified as having received training in acting as a worker’s companion at such hearings. Employers are free but not obliged to allow workers to be accompanied by someone who does not fall into those categories. Some workers may have a contractual right to be accompanied by persons other than those listed, such as a professional support body, partner, spouse or legal representative.

As one of the initial steps in resolving tensions when the worker-employer relationship has broken down, the provisions of the 1999 Act seek to keep disciplinary and grievance procedures internal to a workplace. Expanding the types of organisations that can be involved in representing workers could lead to hearings requiring legal representation for both worker and employer. We certainly do not want to see internal disciplinary or grievance hearings ending up in a legal battle. That would invariably increase the cost of holding a hearing and potentially decrease the chances of an amicable resolution. Equally, introducing increased legal expertise from outside the workplace could increase the likelihood of a tribunal. Workers and employers may judge ACAS conciliation or mediation unlikely to resolve a dispute because legal arguments have been made during an internal disciplinary hearing. We certainly believe that amicable resolutions are the swiftest way for justice to be delivered.

The new clause would give the Secretary of State the power to set out and define in regulations the professional bodies that could represent employees in disciplinary and grievance hearings. Although, as the shadow Minister said, this measure relates specifically to the education sector, one can easily see a whole range of organisations beginning to knock on the door. It would raise all sorts of questions about regulations, standards and enforcement, and it would inevitably expand quite quickly.

As the shadow Minister said, it is not clear beyond the written submission to the Committee where the demand is for the expansion of this right. Employers are of course entitled to nominate individuals or organisations for recognition. The Government are clear that trade unions are best placed to provide workplace representation. The legislation is fit for purpose in terms of ensuring that that is done in a proportionate and balanced way. On that basis, we reject the new clause.

[Steve Darling]

Although I am disappointed that the new clause has fallen on stony ground, it was only a probing amendment, so I beg to ask leave to withdraw the motion.

Clause, by leave, withdrawn.

New Clause 38

Time off for volunteering: consultation

“(1) The Secretary of State must consult on the introduction of a requirement for employers with more than 250 employees to grant employees time off for volunteering.

(2) The consultation must consider, amongst other things, the following matters—

(a) the amount of time off an employer must grant;

(b) when the time off may be taken;

(c) any conditions to which the granting of time off may be subject; and

(d) the definition of ‘volunteering’.

(3) The consultation must be conducted within one year of this Act being passed.

(4) The Secretary of State must, within three months of the consultation closing, publish and lay before Parliament the Secretary of State’s response to the consultation.”—(Steve Darling.)

This new clause calls for a consultation on allowing employees at companies of over 250 people the opportunity to take time off in order to undertake voluntary work.

Brought up, and read the First time.

--- Later in debate ---

[Greg Smith]

I heard very clearly what the hon. Member for Torbay proposed on behalf of the Liberal Democrats. I think we all salute everybody who volunteers. We can all celebrate people who give up their time freely to do something worthy in our constituencies, communities and neighbourhoods—including the Scout and Girlguiding groups that the hon. Gentleman spoke of.

It is clear from the passion with which the hon. Gentleman spoke that the Liberal Democrats are still pining for the coalition days, when the big society was the centrepiece of the vision that the Prime Minister—now my right hon. Friend the noble Lord Cameron—had for this country. On one level, I had thought that one of the greatest successes of the coalition Government was—until the 2024 general election—the electoral annihilation of the Liberal Democrats, but they are still pining for many of the things that my party and theirs did together in that coalition period.

In theory, the new clause is actually very appealing; we all want to support people to do good and give their time freely in their communities, neighbourhoods and areas—in our constituencies. But where I take issue with the hon. Gentleman is that, time and again in this Committee, too much has been left to yet another consultation. While I hear his argument, “What harm would another one do?”, I think we are consultationed out at the moment. I do not think it would be helpful either for the Government, in achieving what they wish to achieve through this very wide-reaching piece of legislation—albeit with disagreement from the Opposition Benches—or for employers to have to take on yet another strand of burden in this regard, so the Opposition will not be supporting new clause 38.

However, we do want to explore ways in which volunteering can be more greatly encouraged in all of our communities. As a starting point, although consideration of the definition of volunteering would be included as part of the hon. Gentleman’s proposed consultation, we need a better definition before we consider any wider consultation on time off and so on. At the moment, it is far too wide-open a goal and too broad a word. If we asked everybody in the country to give their definition of volunteering, we would probably get 70 million different answers. If we had greater clarity about what we are really talking about—for example, my hon. Friend the Member for Bridgwater’s very clear and defined proposal on special constables, which of course is an incredibly worthwhile and nation-enhancing bit of volunteering—then we could potentially get somewhere, but at the moment, volunteering could mean literally anything to anyone. That is not to undermine the good work that people do day in, day out across our country, but we need greater clarity.

[Justin Madders]

Let us start where we can all agree: volunteering is a very important part of our society and we want to do everything we can to encourage it. It is a central part of civic life and has a positive impact on our society, and we all pay tribute to the volunteers in our communities. There are large employers that have impact days and corporate social responsibility days where they come into the community—there are a number of examples in my constituency where that has happened. Larger employers, in particular, have been able to pool their resources and have a real benefit in their communities.

However, as the shadow Minister outlined, the Government will be undertaking a significant number of consultations, and we do not wish to add to that at this stage. We want to focus on the priorities in our “Make Work Pay” agenda. In particular, we want to see how the enhanced right to flexible working will benefit people’s ability to volunteer. We believe that when we implement the new rights to flexible working in the earlier parts of the Bill, they will enable employees to access flexible working requests in order to fit in their volunteering, and that further legislation is not necessary at this time.

The Department for Culture, Media and Sport is delivering the Know Your Neighbourhood fund, which has a key focus to ensure that learning is shared

“on how people in disadvantaged areas can be supported to volunteer and improve their social connections”.

So there is work going on in Government, and a recognition that volunteering is an important part of the fabric of our society, but, as has been indicated, we do not wish to undertake additional consultations at this point.

[Steve Darling]

I draw the Committee’s attention to the fact that we are looking at employers that employ over 250 individuals, so the new clause would far from impact smaller businesses. I have grave concerns that the Government believe they have all the time in the world and expect that there will be a second glorious term for the Labour party, come hell or high water. The jury is out on whether a second term for Keir will appear. One is better driving the agenda forward while one has the helm than to hope for the helm when it turns the next headland. I encourage the Government to reflect on their proposals and grasp the opportunity to consult on this volunteering opportunity.

Question put, That the clause be read a Second time.

--- Later in debate ---

[Steve Darling]

I am delighted that the hon. Member for Mid Buckinghamshire has had a road to Damascus moment on the need for further consultation on the Bill. I am delighted that the Conservatives believe that consultation is a good thing, unlike my Conservative council colleagues in Torbay. I look forward to the Minister looking kindly on the new clause, which shows that the Conservatives believe in consultation. I would ask that he please grasp this opportunity.

[Justin Madders]

It seems the coalition era love-in has started again in earnest. As the shadow Minister outlined, new clause 42 would require the Certification Officer to lay before both Houses, within 12 months of Royal Assent, a report setting out the impact on various sectors of the UK economy of introducing a four-day week. It would require the Certification Officer to consult businesses, workers, consumers and others and to publish consultation responses when laying the report. Just when we thought we had got away from consultation, we have another one.

In considering the new clause, it might be helpful to set out the role of the Certification Officer. It has been the regulator of trade unions and employer associations since 1975. It not only carries out regulatory functions, but has administrative, supervisory and significant quasi-judicial functions. It adjudicates on complaints raised by trade union members and other parties. As part of our repeal of the provisions of the Trade Union Act 2016, we will remove the Certification Officer’s enhanced investigatory and enforcement powers, as well as the levy imposed on trade unions and employer associations. As such, we will return the role of the Certification Officer to what it was before that Act.

--- Later in debate ---

[Greg Smith]

His Majesty’s loyal Opposition cannot support new clause 51. The horrible practices outlined by the hon. Member for Dundee Central need to be tackled, but the Bill will already do that. I actually find myself in agreement with parts of what the hon. Member for Edinburgh East and Musselburgh said. There are other routes within immigration law where such things can and should be tackled. No matter how much we disagree with parts of the Bill, if we take the view that the law must apply equally to everybody whether or not they are a British citizen, it is unnecessarily to carve out a particular section of people through new clause 51, when there is other legislation to deal with the abuses that no one on the Committee or in the House wants to see.

[Justin Madders]

Let me start by reaffirming our strong view that every worker has the full right to protection under the laws of this country. That includes migrant workers, as is clear from our plan to make work pay, which recognises that particularly vulnerable sectors are open to abuse from unscrupulous employers. The immigration framework is an important part of ensuring that those who come to this country under visas and sponsorship are protected and that modern slavery abuse is tackled.

Sponsorship is a privilege that comes with certain responsibilities for sponsors to ensure that they adhere to employment rights in the United Kingdom. They must have full responsibility for the work that workers are conducting, and in all cases they must ensure that those they sponsor are paid appropriately and that they act in compliance with relevant legislation. As my hon. Friend the Member for Edinburgh East and Musselburgh says, a lot of work is ongoing in this area, particularly from the Home Office, which recently announced that it would ban from future sponsorship any business found guilty of serious employment law breaches, including failing to pay the national minimum wage.

We are committed to strengthening the enforcement of rights more broadly through the fair work agency. The Committee has heard plenty of evidence that the current system of enforcement is fragmented. Unfortunately, as we know, that often means that not everyone gets the protection that they should have. One of the essential functions of the new fair work agency will be to produce a strategy setting out its assessment of the scale and nature of non-compliance with labour market rules. This is to ensure that the risks of abuse across all sectors and groups of workers are properly understood and captured. In producing the strategy, the fair work agency will need to consult with an advisory board made up of trade unions, business and independent experts. That will ensure that we get a broad view of the gaps and risks in the labour market.

The hon. Member for Dundee Central suggests that this area is a blind spot for the Government. I can assure him that it is not. I have had conversations with the Director of Labour Market Enforcement about the issue, and plenty of work is under way at the Home Office. The hon. Member need only consider the Low Pay Commission’s report to see that the issue is clearly on our radar. An additional report would not add anything to the work that is already under way. I therefore ask him to withdraw his new clause.

[Chris Law]

I appreciate the comments that have been made in this short debate. Just to be clear, the new clause is about issues that are not currently protected under the Modern Slavery Act 2015 and are often under-reported. I welcome the Minister’s comments about the fair work agency and the recent Low Pay Commission report, but I must ask about the timeframe. My suggestion—I will try to work with him on this—is that the timeframe be six months beyond the passing of the Bill, so that we can get decisions made. Perhaps the Secretary of State could let us know what kind of timeframe we are talking about, to give us peace of mind that action will be taken for those who are most vulnerable and have come here from overseas. I beg to ask leave to withdraw the motion.

Clause, by leave, withdrawn.

New Schedule 1

Warrants under Part 5: further provision

“Part 1

Application of this Schedule

1 This Schedule applies in relation to—

(a) applications for warrants under section (Power to enter dwelling subject to warrant) or 83, and

(b) warrants issued under section (Power to enter dwelling subject to warrant) or 83.

Part 2

Warrants: applications and safeguards

Applications for warrants

2 (1) Where an enforcement officer applies for a warrant, the officer must—

(a) state the ground on which the application is made,

(b) state the provision of this Act under which the warrant would be issued,

(c) specify the premises which it is desired to enter, and

(d) identify, so far as is practicable, the purpose for which entry is desired.

(2) An application for a warrant must be made without notice and must be supported by an information in writing or, in Scotland, evidence on oath.

(3) The officer must answer on oath any question that the justice hearing the application asks the officer.

Safeguards in connection with power of entry conferred by warrant

3 A warrant authorises an entry on one occasion only.

4 (1) A warrant must specify—

(a) the name of the person who applies for it,

(b) the date on which it is issued,

(c) the provision of this Act under which it is issued, and

(d) the premises to be entered.

(2) A warrant must identify, so far as is practicable, the purpose for which entry is desired.

5 (1) Two copies are to be made of a warrant.

(2) In the case of a warrant issued in electronic form, the copies must be clearly marked as copies.

(3) In the case of a warrant issued otherwise than in electronic form, the copies must be clearly certified as copies.

Part 3

Execution of warrants

Warrant to be executed within three months

6 Execution of a warrant must be within three months from the date of its issue.

Time of entry

7 Execution of a warrant must be at a reasonable time, unless it appears to the officer executing it that there are grounds for suspecting that the purpose of entering the premises may be frustrated if the officer seeks to enter at a reasonable time.

Evidence of authority etc

8 (1) Where the occupier of premises to be entered under a warrant is present at the time when an enforcement officer seeks to execute the warrant, the following requirements must be satisfied—

(a) the officer must produce to the occupier documentary evidence of the fact that the officer is an enforcement officer;

(b) if the officer is asked for it, the occupier must be told the officer’s name;

(c) the officer must produce the warrant to the occupier;

(d) the officer must supply the occupier with a copy of the warrant that is marked or certified as a copy in accordance with paragraph 5.

(2) Where—

(a) the occupier of premises to be entered under a warrant is not present when an enforcement officer seeks to execute it, but

(b) some other person who appears to the officer to be in charge of the premises is present,

sub-paragraph (1) has effect as if any reference to the occupier were a reference to that other person.

(3) If there is no person present who appears to the enforcement officer to be in charge of the premises, the officer must leave a copy of the warrant, marked or certified as a copy in accordance with paragraph 5, in a prominent place on the premises.

Securing premises after entry

9 An enforcement officer who enters premises under a warrant must take reasonable steps to ensure that when the officer leaves the premises they are as secure as they were before the officer entered.

Return and retention of warrants

10 (1) A warrant which—

(a) has been executed, or

(b) has not been executed within the time authorised for its execution,

must be returned to the appropriate person.

(2) For the purposes of sub-paragraph (1) the appropriate person is—

(a) in the case of a warrant issued in England and Wales, the designated officer for the local justice area in which the justice was acting when the warrant was issued;

(b) in the case of a warrant issued in Scotland by a justice of the peace, the clerk of the justice of the peace court in the sheriffdom for which the justice of the peace was appointed;

(c) in the case of a warrant issued in Scotland by a sheriff or a summary sheriff, the sheriff clerk;

(d) in the case of a warrant issued in Northern Ireland, the clerk of petty sessions.

(3) A warrant that is returned under this paragraph must be retained by the person to whom it is returned for a period of 12 months.

(4) If during that period the occupier of the premises to which the warrant relates asks to inspect it, the occupier must be allowed to do so.”—(Justin Madders.)

This new Schedule makes further provision about applications for, and the execution of, warrants under Part 5.

Brought up, read the First and Second time, and added to the Bill.

New Schedule 2

Increase in time limits for making claims

“Safety Representatives and Safety Committees Regulations 1977

1 (1) In regulation 11 of the Safety Representatives and Safety Committees Regulations 1977 (S.I. 1977/500) (time off for safety representatives), in paragraph (2), for ‘three’, in both places it occurs, substitute ‘six’.

(2) In regulation 12 of those Regulations—

(a) in paragraph (2), for ‘three’ substitute ‘six’;

(b) in paragraph (3), for ‘three’ substitute ‘six’;

(c) in paragraph (4), for ‘three’ substitute ‘six’.

Trade Union and Labour Relations (Consolidation) Act 1992

2 (1) The Trade Union and Labour Relations (Consolidation) Act 1992 is amended as follows.

(2) In section 66 (unjustifiable discipline by union), in subsection (2)(a), for ‘three’ substitute ‘six’.

(3) In section 68A (unauthorised deduction of union subscriptions), in subsection (1)(a), for ‘three’ substitute ‘six’.

(4) In section 70C (collective bargaining: obligations relating to training), in subsection (2)—

(a) in paragraph (a), for ‘three’ substitute ‘six’;

(b) in paragraph (b), for ‘three’ substitute ‘six’.

(5) In section 87 (unlawful deduction of contributions to political fund), in subsection (2)(a), for ‘three’ substitute ‘six’.

(6) In section 139 (refusal of employment on grounds related to union membership), in subsection (1)(a), for ‘three’ substitute ‘six’.

(7) In section 145C (inducements), in subsection (1)(a), for ‘three’ substitute ‘six’.

(8) In section 147 (detriment for trade union activities), in subsection (1)(a), for ‘three’ substitute ‘six’.

(9) In section 171 (time off for trade union activities), in subsection (1)(a), for ‘three’ substitute ‘six’.

(10) In section 189 (consultation in collective redundancy), in subsection (5)—

(a) in paragraph (b), for ‘three’ substitute ‘six’;

(b) in paragraph (c), for ‘three’ substitute ‘six’.

(11) In section 192 (remuneration under protective award), in subsection (2)—

(a) in paragraph (a), for ‘three’ substitute ‘six’;

(b) in paragraph (b), for ‘three’ substitute ‘six’.

(12) In paragraph 157 of Schedule A1 (detriment in relation to trade union recognition), in sub-paragraph (1)(a), for ‘3’ substitute ‘six’.

Pension Schemes Act 1993

3 In section 126 of the Pension Schemes Act 1993 (unpaid pension contributions), in subsection (2), for ‘three’ substitute ‘six’.

Employment Rights Act 1996

4 (1) The Employment Rights Act 1996 is amended as follows.

(2) In section 11 (written statements), in subsection (4)—

(a) in paragraph (a), for ‘three’ substitute ‘six’;

(b) in paragraph (b), for ‘three’ substitute ‘six’.

(3) In section 23 (protection of wages)—

(a) in subsection (2), for ‘three’ substitute ‘six’;

(b) in subsection (4), for ‘three’ substitute ‘six’.

(4) In section 27N (information relating to tips etc)—

(a) in subsection (2), for ‘three’ substitute ‘six’;

(b) in subsection (3), for ‘three’ substitute ‘six’.

(5) In section 34 (guarantee payments), in subsection (2)—

(a) in paragraph (a), for ‘three’ substitute ‘six’;

(b) in paragraph (b), for ‘three’ substitute ‘six’.

(6) In section 48 (detriment in employment), in subsection (3)—

(a) in paragraph (a), for ‘three’ substitute ‘six’;

(b) in paragraph (b), for ‘three’ substitute ‘six’.

(7) In section 51 (time off for public duties), in subsection (2)—

(a) in paragraph (a), for ‘three’ substitute ‘six’;

(b) in paragraph (b), for ‘three’ substitute ‘six’.

(8) In section 54 (time off following redundancy), in subsection (2)—

(a) in paragraph (a), for ‘three’ substitute ‘six’;

(b) in paragraph (b), for ‘three’ substitute ‘six’.

(9) In section 57 (time off for ante-natal care), in subsection (2)—

(a) in paragraph (a), for ‘three’ substitute ‘six’;

(b) in paragraph (b), for ‘three’ substitute ‘six’.

(10) In section 57ZC (time off for ante-natal care: agency workers), in subsection (3)—

(a) in paragraph (a), for ‘three’ substitute ‘six’;

(b) in paragraph (b), for ‘three’ substitute ‘six’.

(11) In section 57ZF (time off to accompany to ante-natal appointment), in subsection (2)—

(a) in paragraph (a), for ‘three’ substitute ‘six’;

(b) in paragraph (b), for ‘three’ substitute ‘six’.

(12) In section 57ZH (time off to accompany to ante-natal appointment: agency workers), in subsection (3)—

(a) in paragraph (a), for ‘three’ substitute ‘six’;

(b) in paragraph (b), for ‘three’ substitute ‘six’.

(13) In section 57ZM (time off to attend adoption appointments), in subsection (2)—

(a) in paragraph (a), for ‘three’ substitute ‘six’;

(b) in paragraph (b), for ‘three’ substitute ‘six’.

(14) In section 57ZQ (time off to attend adoption appointments: agency workers), in subsection (3)—

(a) in paragraph (a), for ‘three’ substitute ‘six’;

(b) in paragraph (b), for ‘three’ substitute ‘six’.

(15) In section 57B (time off for dependants), in subsection (2)—

(a) in paragraph (a), for ‘three’ substitute ‘six’;

(b) in paragraph (b), for ‘three’ substitute ‘six’.

(16) In section 60 (time off for pension scheme trustees), in subsection (2)—

(a) in paragraph (a), for ‘three’ substitute ‘six’;

(b) in paragraph (b), for ‘three’ substitute ‘six’.

(17) In section 63 (time off for employee representatives), in subsection (2)—

(a) in paragraph (a), for ‘three’ substitute ‘six’;

(b) in paragraph (b), for ‘three’ substitute ‘six’.

(18) In section 63C (time off for study or training), in subsection (2)—

(a) in paragraph (a), for ‘three’ substitute ‘six’;

(b) in paragraph (b), for ‘three’ substitute ‘six’.

(19) In section 63I (requests in relation to study or training), in subsection (5)—

(a) in paragraph (a), for ‘three’ substitute ‘six’;

(b) in paragraph (b), for ‘three’ substitute ‘six’.

(20) In section 70 (rights following suspension from work)—

(a) in subsection (2)—

(i) in paragraph (a), for ‘three’ substitute ‘six’;

(ii) in paragraph (b), for ‘three’ substitute ‘six’;

(b) in subsection (5)—

(i) in paragraph (a), for ‘three’ substitute ‘six’;

(ii) in paragraph (b), for ‘three’ substitute ‘six’.

(21) In section 70A (rights of agency worker where supply is ended on maternity grounds)—

(a) in subsection (2)—

(i) in paragraph (a), for ‘three’ substitute ‘six’;

(ii) in paragraph (b), for ‘three’ substitute ‘six’;

(b) in subsection (5)—

(i) in paragraph (a), for ‘three’ substitute ‘six’;

(ii) in paragraph (b), for ‘three’ substitute ‘six’.

(22) In section 80 (parental leave), in subsection (2)—

(a) in paragraph (a), for ‘three’ substitute ‘six’;

(b) in paragraph (b), for ‘three’ substitute ‘six’.

(23) In section 80H (right to request flexible working), in subsection (5)—

(a) in paragraph (a), for ‘three’ substitute ‘six’;

(b) in paragraph (b), for ‘three’ substitute ‘six’.

(24) In section 80N (carer’s leave), in subsection (2)—

(a) in paragraph (a), for ‘three’ substitute ‘six’;

(b) in paragraph (b), for ‘three’ substitute ‘six’.

(25) In section 111 (unfair dismissal), in subsection (2)—

(a) in paragraph (a), for ‘three’ substitute ‘six’;

(b) in paragraph (b), for ‘three’ substitute ‘six’.

(26) In section 188 (rights on insolvency of employer), in subsection (2)—

(a) in paragraph (a), for ‘three’ substitute ‘six’;

(b) in paragraph (b), for ‘three’ substitute ‘six’.

Health and Safety (Consultation with Employees) Regulations 1996

5 (1) In paragraph 3 of Schedule 2 to the Health and Safety (Consultation with Employees) Regulations 1996 (S.I. 1996/1513) (time off for representatives of employee safety etc), for ‘three’, in both places it occurs, substitute ‘six’.

(2) In paragraph 3A of that Schedule—

(a) in sub-paragraph (2), for ‘three’ substitute ‘six’;

(b) in sub-paragraph (3), for ‘three’ substitute ‘six’;

(c) in sub-paragraph (4), for ‘three’ substitute ‘six’.

Working Time Regulations 1998

6 In regulation 30 of the Working Time Regulations 1998 (S.I. 1998/1833) (rights as to working time), in paragraph (2)—

(a) in sub-paragraph (a), for the words from ‘three months’ to ‘six months)’ substitute ‘six months’;

(b) in sub-paragraph (b), omit ‘three or, as the case may be,’.

National Minimum Wage Act 1998

7 In section 11 of the National Minimum Wage Act 1998 (access to records)—

(a) in subsection (3), for ‘three’ substitute ‘six’;

(b) in subsection (4), for ‘three’ substitute ‘six’.

Employment Relations Act 1999

8 In section 11 of the Employment Relations Act 1999 (right to be accompanied), in subsection (2)—

(a) in paragraph (a), for ‘three’ substitute ‘six’;

(b) in paragraph (b), for ‘three’ substitute ‘six’.

Transnational Information and Consultation of Employees Regulations 1999

9 (1) In regulation 27 of the Transnational Information and Consultation of Employees Regulations 1999 (S.I. 1999/3323) (time off for members of a European Works Council etc)—

(a) in the heading, for ‘tribunals’ substitute ‘employment tribunals in Great Britain’;

(b) in paragraph (1), for the words from ‘complaint,’ to ‘, that’ substitute ‘complaint to an employment tribunal in Great Britain that’;

(c) in paragraph (2)—

(i) in sub-paragraph (a), for ‘three’ substitute ‘six’;

(ii) in sub-paragraph (b), for ‘three’ substitute ‘six’;

(d) omit paragraph (2B).

(2) In the heading of regulation 27A of those Regulations (extension of time limit to facilitate conciliation before institution of proceedings), at the end insert ‘in Great Britain’.

(3) After regulation 27A of those Regulations insert—

‘Right to time off: complaints to industrial tribunals in Northern Ireland

(1) An employee may present a complaint to an industrial tribunal in Northern Ireland that the employee’s employer–

(a) has unreasonably refused to permit the employee to take time off as required by regulation 25; or

(b) has failed to pay the whole or any part of any amount to which the employee is entitled under regulation 26.

(2) A tribunal shall not consider a complaint under this regulation unless it is presented–

(a) before the end of the period of three months beginning with the day on which the time off was taken or on which it is alleged the time off should have been permitted; or

(b) within such further period as the tribunal considers reasonable in a case where it is satisfied that it was not reasonably practicable for the complaint to be presented before the end of that period of three months.

(3) Regulation 27B (extension of time limit to facilitate conciliation before institution of proceedings in Northern Ireland) applies for the purposes of paragraph (2).

(4) Where a tribunal finds a complaint under this regulation well-founded, the tribunal shall make a declaration to that effect.

(5) If the complaint is that the employer has unreasonably refused to permit the employee to take time off, the tribunal shall also order the employer to pay to the employee an amount equal to the remuneration to which the employee would have been entitled under regulation 26 if the employer had not refused.

(6) If the complaint is that the employer has failed to pay the employee the whole or part of any amount to which the employee is entitled under regulation 26, the tribunal shall also order the employer to pay to the employee the amount which it finds due to the employee.’

(4) In regulation 27B of those Regulations (extension of time limit to facilitate conciliation before institution of proceedings in Northern Ireland)—

(a) in paragraph (2), for ‘27(2)(a)’ substitute ‘27AA(2)(a)’;

(b) in paragraph (3), for ‘27(2)(a)’ substitute ‘27AA(2)(a)’;

(c) in paragraph (4), for ‘27(2)(b)’ substitute ‘27AA(2)(b)’.

Merchant Shipping (Working Time: Inland Waterways) Regulations 2003

10 In regulation 18 of the Merchant Shipping (Working Time: Inland Waterways) Regulations 2003 (S.I. 2003/3049) (merchant shipping: rights as to working time), in paragraph (2)—

(a) in sub-paragraph (a), for ‘three’ substitute ‘six’;

(b) in sub-paragraph (b), for ‘three’ substitute ‘six’.

Civil Aviation (Working Time) Regulations 2004

11 In regulation 18 of the Civil Aviation (Working Time) Regulations 2004 (S.I. 2004/756) (civil aviation: rights as to working time), in paragraph (2)—

(a) in sub-paragraph (a), for ‘three’ substitute ‘six’;

(b) in sub-paragraph (b), for ‘three’ substitute ‘six’.

Fishing Vessels (Working Time: Sea-fishermen) Regulations 2004

12 In regulation 19 of the Fishing Vessels (Working Time: Sea-fishermen) Regulations 2004 (S.I. 2004/1713) (fishing vessels: rights to rest and leave), in paragraph (2)—

(a) in sub-paragraph (a), for ‘three’ substitute ‘six’;

(b) in sub-paragraph (b), for ‘three’ substitute ‘six’.

Transfer of Undertakings (Protection of Employment) Regulations 2006

13 (1) The Transfer of Undertakings (Protection of Employment) Regulations 2006 (S.I. 2006/246) are amended as follows.

(2) In regulation 12 (notification of employee liability information), in paragraph (2)—

(a) in sub-paragraph (a), for ‘three’ substitute ‘six’;

(b) in sub-paragraph (b), for ‘three’ substitute ‘six’.

(3) In regulation 15 (information and consultation requirements), in paragraph (12)—

(a) in the words before sub-paragraph (a), for ‘three’ substitute ‘six’;

(b) in the words after sub-paragraph (b), for ‘three’ substitute ‘six’.

Cross-border Railway Services (Working Time) Regulations 2008

14 In regulation 17 of the Cross-border Railway Services (Working Time) Regulations 2008 (S.I. 2008/1660) (cross-border railway services: rights as to working time), in paragraph (2)—

(a) in sub-paragraph (a), for ‘three’ substitute ‘six’;

(b) in sub-paragraph (b), for ‘three’ substitute ‘six’.

European Public Limited-Liability Company (Employee Involvement) (Great Britain) Regulations 2009

15 In regulation 28 of the European Public Limited-Liability Company (Employee Involvement) (Great Britain) Regulations 2009 (S.I. 2009/2401) (time off for members of special negotiating body etc), in paragraph (2)—

(a) in sub-paragraph (a), for ‘three’ substitute ‘six’;

(b) in sub-paragraph (b), for ‘three’ substitute ‘six’.

Agency Workers Regulations 2010

16 In regulation 18 of the Agency Workers Regulations 2010 (S.I. 2010/93) (rights of agency workers), in paragraph (4), for ‘three’ substitute ‘six’.

Equality Act 2010

17 In section 123 of the Equality Act 2010 (discrimination etc at work), in subsection (1)(a), for “3” substitute “6”.

Merchant Shipping (Maritime Labour Convention) (Hours of Work) Regulations 2018

18 In regulation 26 of the Merchant Shipping (Maritime Labour Convention) (Hours of Work) Regulations 2018 (S.I. 2018/58) (rights of seafarers to leave), in paragraph (6), for ‘three’ substitute ‘six’.”—(Justin Madders.)

This new Schedule would increase time limits for making claims in employment tribunals (and, in certain cases, industrial tribunals in Northern Ireland) from three months to six months.

Brought up, read the First and Second time, and added to the Bill.

New Schedule 3

Seafarers’ wages and working conditions

“Amendment of Seafarers’ Wages Act 2023

1 The Seafarers’ Wages Act 2023 (“the Act”) is amended in accordance with paragraphs 2 to 23.

Part 1 of the Act: relevant services

2 For the italic heading before section 1 substitute—

‘Part 1

Relevant services’.

3 In section 1 (services to which this Act applies)—

(a) for the heading substitute ‘Relevant services’;

(b) in subsection (1), for ‘This Act applies to’ substitute ‘In this Act, “relevant service” means’;

(c) in subsection (2), for ‘this Act does not apply to’ substitute ‘“relevant service” does not include’;

(d) for subsection (4) substitute—

‘(4) In this Act, “ship”—

(a) includes—

(i) any kind of vessel used in navigation, and

(ii) hovercraft;

(b) includes a ship which is registered in a State other than the United Kingdom.’

Chapter 1 of Part 2 of the Act: non-qualifying seafarers

4 After section 1 insert—

‘Part 2

Remuneration of seafarers

Chapter 1

Non-qualifying seafarers’.

5 In section 2 (non-qualifying seafarers), in paragraph (a), for ‘service to which this Act applies’ substitute ‘relevant service’.

Chapter 2 of Part 2 of the Act: national minimum wage equivalence declarations

6 For the italic heading before section 3 substitute—

‘Chapter 2

National minimum wage equivalence declarations’.

7 In section 3 (request for declaration)—

(a) in the heading, after ‘for’ insert ‘equivalence’;

(b) in subsection (1)—

(i) for ‘Act applies’ substitute ‘Chapter applies (see subsection (4A))’;

(ii) at the end insert ‘(see section 19 for the meaning of “relevant year”)’;

(c) after subsection (4) insert—

‘(4A) This Chapter applies to a relevant service, subject to provision made by remuneration regulations in reliance on section 4A(6).’;

(d) omit subsections (5) and (6).

8 In section 4 (nature of declaration)—

(a) in the heading, after ‘of’ insert ‘equivalence’;

(b) after subsection (5) insert—

‘(5A) For the meaning of “UK work”, see section 19.

(5B) For the meaning of “national minimum wage equivalent”, see section 4D(1).’;

(c) omit subsections (6) to (10).

Chapters 3 and 4 of Part 2 of the Act: remuneration regulations and declarations

9 After section 4 insert—

‘Chapter 3

Remuneration regulations and declarations

Remuneration regulations

4A Remuneration regulations

(1) Regulations may specify requirements relating to the remuneration of non-qualifying seafarers in respect of their work carried out in relation to the provision of a relevant service (whether or not in the territorial waters of the United Kingdom).

(2) In this Act, regulations under subsection (1) are referred to as “remuneration regulations”.

(3) Remuneration regulations may relate to remuneration in respect of only some of the work carried out in relation to the provision of a relevant service, and may frame such provision by reference to the waters in which the work is carried out or in any other way.

(4) Remuneration regulations may apply to—

(a) all relevant services, or

(b) one or more relevant services of a specified description.

(5) For the purposes of subsection (4)(b), a service may be described by reference to (among other things) the route operated by the service.

(6) Remuneration regulations may provide that Chapter 2 does not apply to any extent to a relevant service to which the regulations apply.

Remuneration declarations

4B Request for remuneration declaration

(1) Subsection (2) applies where a harbour authority has reasonable grounds to believe that ships providing a service to which remuneration regulations apply will enter, or have entered, its harbour on at least—

(a) 120 occasions, or

(b) if remuneration regulations specify a higher number in relation to services of a specified description and the service is of that description, that higher number of occasions,

during a relevant year (see section 19 for the meaning of “relevant year”).

(2) The harbour authority must, within such period as is determined by regulations under this subsection, request that the operator of the service provide the authority with a remuneration declaration in respect of the service for the relevant year.

(3) The duty under subsection (2) is subject to any direction given by the Secretary of State under section 16(1)(a).

(4) A harbour authority which fails to comply with subsection (2) is guilty of an offence and liable on summary conviction—

(a) in England and Wales, to a fine, or

(b) in Scotland and Northern Ireland, to a fine not exceeding level 5 on the standard scale.

4C Nature of remuneration declaration

(1) A remuneration declaration in respect of a service for a relevant year is a declaration within any of subsections (2) to (5).

(2) A declaration is within this subsection if it is provided before the beginning of the relevant year and it is to the effect that—

(a) in the relevant year there will be no non-qualifying seafarers working on ships providing the service, or

(b) in the relevant year non-qualifying seafarers working on ships providing the service will be remunerated in respect of their work in relation to the service in accordance with the remuneration regulations that apply in relation to them.

(3) A declaration is within this subsection if it is provided during the relevant year and it is to the effect that—

(a) in what remains of the relevant year there will be no non-qualifying seafarers working on ships providing the service, or

(b) in what remains of the relevant year non-qualifying seafarers working on ships providing the service will be remunerated in respect of their work in relation to the service in accordance with the remuneration regulations that apply in relation to them.

(4) A declaration is within this subsection if it is provided during the relevant year and it is to the effect that—

(a) in so much of the relevant year as has already occurred—

(i) there have been no non-qualifying seafarers working on ships providing the service, or

(ii) non-qualifying seafarers working on ships providing the service have been remunerated in respect of their work in relation to the service in accordance with the remuneration regulations that apply in relation to them, and

(b) in what remains of the relevant year—

(i) there will be no non-qualifying seafarers working on ships providing the service, or

(ii) non-qualifying seafarers working on ships providing the service will be remunerated in respect of their work in relation to the service in accordance with the remuneration regulations that apply in relation to them.

(5) A declaration is within this subsection if it is provided after the end of the relevant year and it is to the effect that—

(a) in the relevant year there were no non-qualifying seafarers working on ships providing the service, or

(b) in the relevant year non-qualifying seafarers working on ships providing the service were remunerated in respect of their work in relation to the service in accordance with the remuneration regulations that apply in relation to them.

Chapter 4

Chapters 2 and 3: supplementary regulations

4D Regulations about national minimum wage equivalent etc

(1) For the purposes of this Part, the national minimum wage equivalent is an hourly rate specified in regulations.

(2) Regulations may make provision for determining for the purposes of this Part—

(a) the hourly rate at which a non-qualifying seafarer is remunerated in any period in respect of any work, and

(b) whether, or the extent to which, a non-qualifying seafarer’s work in relation to a relevant service is UK work.

(3) Regulations under subsection (2)(a) may in particular make—

(a) any provision referred to in section 2(2) to (6) of the National Minimum Wage Act 1998;

(b) provision relating to currency conversion.

(4) Subsection (5) applies for the purposes of—

(a) section 4, and

(b) remuneration regulations that are framed by reference to the national minimum wage equivalent.

(5) The Secretary of State must in making regulations under this section seek to secure that a non-qualifying seafarer is remunerated at a rate equal to the national minimum wage equivalent only if their remuneration is in all the circumstances broadly equivalent to the remuneration they would receive if they qualified for the national minimum wage.’

Part 3 of the Act: seafarers’ working conditions

10 After section 4D (inserted by paragraph 9 of this Schedule) insert—

‘Part 3

Seafarers’ working conditions

Safe working regulations

4E Safe working regulations

(1) In this Part, “seafarer” means a person who works on a ship providing a relevant service.

(2) Regulations may specify conditions relating to the working pattern and rest requirements of seafarers who carry out work relating to the provision of a relevant service, including conditions about—

(a) their maximum periods of work in a specified period;

(b) their minimum periods of rest in a specified period.

(3) Regulations may make provision for the purpose of managing and mitigating risks arising from fatigue suffered by seafarers when carrying out their work relating to the provision of a relevant service.

(4) Regulations under subsection (3) may, among other things—

(a) require the operator of a relevant service to produce a plan to manage and mitigate risks arising from fatigue suffered by seafarers when carrying out their work relating to the provision of the service (a “fatigue management plan”);

(b) make provision about the contents of such a plan by reference to a specified document as amended from time to time.

(5) Regulations may make provision for and in connection with the training of seafarers who carry out work relating to the provision of a relevant service, for the purpose of ensuring—

(a) the safety of the ship on which they work,

(b) the safety of things on the ship, or

(c) the health or safety of persons on the ship.

(6) In this Act, regulations under subsection (2), (3) or (5) are referred to as “safe working regulations”.

(7) Safe working regulations may impose requirements on the operator of a relevant service.

(8) Safe working regulations may apply to—

(a) all relevant services, or

(b) one or more relevant services of a specified description.

(9) For the purposes of subsection (8)(b), a service may be described by reference to (among other things) the route operated by the service.

Safe working declarations

4F Request for safe working declaration

(1) Subsection (2) applies where a harbour authority has reasonable grounds to believe that ships providing a service to which safe working regulations apply will enter, or have entered, its harbour on at least—

(a) 120 occasions, or

(b) if safe working regulations specify a higher number in relation to services of a specified description and the service is of that description, that higher number of occasions,

during a relevant year (see section 19 for the meaning of “relevant year”).

(2) The harbour authority must, within such period as is determined by regulations under this subsection, request that the operator of the service provide the authority with a safe working declaration in respect of the service for the relevant year.

(3) The duty under subsection (2) is subject to any direction given by the Secretary of State under section 16(1)(a).

(4) A harbour authority which fails to comply with subsection (2) is guilty of an offence and liable on summary conviction—

(a) in England and Wales, to a fine, or

(b) in Scotland and Northern Ireland, to a fine not exceeding level 5 on the standard scale.

4G Nature of safe working declaration

(1) A safe working declaration in respect of a service for a relevant year is a declaration within any of subsections (2) to (5).

(2) A declaration is within this subsection if it is provided before the beginning of the relevant year and it is to the effect that the safe working conditions will be met in relation to the service in the relevant year.

(3) A declaration is within this subsection if it is provided during the relevant year and it is to the effect that the safe working conditions will be met in relation to the service in what remains of the relevant year.

(4) A declaration is within this subsection if it is provided during the relevant year and it is to the effect that—

(a) the safe working conditions have been met in relation to the service in so much of the relevant year as has already occurred, and

(b) the safe working conditions will be met in relation to the service in what remains of the relevant year.

(5) A declaration is within this subsection if it is provided after the end of the relevant year and it is to the effect that the safe working conditions were met in relation to the service in the relevant year.

(6) For the purposes of this section the safe working conditions are met in relation to a service at a particular time if at that time—

(a) the service is operated in compliance with regulations under section 4E(2) or (3) that apply to the service,

(b) the service is operated in compliance with a fatigue management plan that is required for the service by regulations under section 4E(3) (see section 4E(4)), and

(c) the service is operated in compliance with regulations under section 4E(5) that apply to the service.

(7) References in subsection (6) to the operation of a service include references to its operation outside the territorial waters of the United Kingdom.’

Part 4 of the Act: enforcement of Parts 2 and 3

11 After section 4G (inserted by paragraph 10 of this Schedule) insert—

‘Part 4

Enforcement of Parts 2 and 3

Offence of operating service inconsistently with declaration’.

12 In section 5 (offence of operating service inconsistently with declaration)—

(a) in subsection (1)—

(i) for ‘service to which this Act applies’ substitute ‘relevant service’;

(ii) in paragraph (a), for ‘an equivalence declaration’ substitute ‘a declaration’;

(b) in subsections (2), (3) and (4), omit ‘equivalence’.

13 (1) Section 6 (imposition of surcharges: failure to provide declaration in time) is amended as follows.

(2) In subsection (1)(a)—

(a) for ‘service to which this Act applies’ substitute ‘relevant service’;

(b) for ‘an equivalence declaration’ substitute ‘a declaration’.

(3) In subsection (1)(b), for ‘an equivalence declaration’ substitute ‘the requested declaration’.

(4) In subsection (2)(b)(ii), for ‘an equivalence declaration’ substitute ‘the requested declaration’.

(5) In subsection (3)(b)(ii), for ‘an equivalence declaration’ substitute ‘the requested declaration’.

(6) In subsection (5)(a), for ‘an equivalence declaration’ substitute ‘the requested declaration’.

(7) In subsection (5)(b), for ‘section 4(4) or (5).’ substitute ‘—

(i) section 4(4) or (5),

(ii) section 4C(4) or (5), or

(iii) section 4G(4) or (5),

(whichever applies).’

(8) In subsection (6)—

(a) for ‘an equivalence declaration’ substitute ‘a declaration’;

(b) in the definition of ‘prescribed period’, for ‘3(5)(a)’ substitute ‘16A(1)(a)’;

(c) in the definition of ‘prescribed form and manner’, for ‘3(5)(b) and (c)’ substitute ‘16A(1)(b) and (c)’.

14 In section 7 (imposition of surcharges: in-year declaration that is prospective only), in subsection (1)—

(a) in paragraph (a)—

(i) for ‘service to which this Act applies’ substitute ‘relevant service’;

(ii) for ‘an equivalence declaration’ substitute ‘a declaration’;

(b) in paragraph (b), for ‘3(5)’ substitute ‘16A(1)’;

(c) in paragraph (c), for the words from ‘within subsection (3)’ to the end substitute ‘—

(i) within subsection (3) of section 4 (and not also within subsection (4) of that section),

(ii) within subsection (3) of section 4C (and not also within subsection (4) of that section), or

(iii) within subsection (3) of section 4G (and not also within subsection (4) of that section),

(whichever applies).’

15 (1) Section 8 (imposition of surcharges: operating inconsistently with declaration) is amended as follows.

(2) In subsection (1)(a)—

(a) for ‘service to which this Act applies” substitute ‘relevant service’;

(b) for ‘an equivalence declaration’ substitute ‘a declaration’.

(3) In subsection (3), after ‘equivalence declaration’ insert ‘, remuneration declaration or safe working declaration (as the case may be)’;

(4) In subsection (4)(a)—

(a) for ‘service to which this Act applies’ substitute ‘relevant service’;

(b) for ‘an equivalence declaration’ substitute ‘a declaration’.

(5) In subsection (6), after ‘equivalence declaration’ insert ‘, remuneration declaration or safe working declaration (as the case may be)’.

16 In section 11 (refusal of harbour access for failure to pay surcharge), in subsection (1), for ‘service to which this Act applies’ substitute ‘relevant service’.

17 (1) Section 12 (provision of information by operators) is amended as follows.

(2) In subsection (1)—

(a) for ‘service to which this Act applies’ substitute ‘relevant service’;

(b) in paragraphs (a) and (b), for ‘an equivalence declaration’ substitute ‘a declaration’.

(3) In subsection (2)—

(a) in paragraph (b), at the beginning insert ‘for the purposes of Part 2,’;

(b) after paragraph (b) insert—

‘(c) for the purposes of Part 3—

(i) information relating to the working pattern, working conditions or training of persons working on ships providing the service;

(ii) a fatigue management plan produced by the operator of the service (see section 4E(4)(a)).’

(4) In subsection (5), for ‘service to which this Act applies’ substitute ‘relevant service’.

18 In section 13 (provision of information by harbour authorities), in subsection (2)(b), omit ‘equivalence’.

19 In section 14 (inspections), in subsection (2)—

(a) in paragraph (a), for ‘service to which this Act applies’ substitute ‘relevant service’;

(b) in paragraphs (a) and (b), for ‘an equivalence declaration’ substitute ‘a declaration’.

Part 5 of the Act: general and final provisions

20 After section 15 insert—

‘Part 5

General and final provisions’.

21 After section 16 insert—

‘16A Regulations about declarations

(1) Regulations may make provision—

(a) as to the period within which declarations are to be provided;

(b) as to the wording of declarations and the form in which they are to be provided;

(c) as to the manner in which declarations are to be provided.

(2) Regulations under subsection (1)(b) may specify a single form combining different kinds of declarations (but a requirement to provide a declaration in such a form does not require an operator of a service to provide a declaration which a harbour authority has not requested the operator to provide).’

22 In section 17 (regulations)—

(a) in the heading, at the end insert ‘: general’;

(b) in subsection (2)(a), for sub-paragraph (i) (but not the ‘or’ after it) substitute—

‘(i) relevant service,’.

23 (1) Section 19 (general interpretation) is amended as follows.

(2) After the definition of ‘the data protection legislation’ insert—

‘“declaration” (without more) means—

(a) an equivalence declaration,

(b) a remuneration declaration, or

(c) a safe working declaration;’.

(3) Omit the definition of ‘national minimum wage equivalent’.

(4) In the definition of ‘operator’, for ‘service to which this Act applies’ substitute ‘relevant service’.

(5) After the definition of ‘operator’ insert—

‘“relevant service” has the meaning given by section 1;’.

(6) In the definition of ‘relevant year’, for ‘has the meaning given by section 3(6);’ substitute ‘means—

(a) the period of 12 months beginning with a date specified in regulations, and

(b) each successive period of 12 months;’.

(7) After the definition of ‘relevant year’ insert—

‘“remuneration declaration” has the meaning given by section 4C(1);

“remuneration regulations” has the meaning given by section 4A(2);

“safe working declaration” has the meaning given by section 4G(1);

“safe working regulations” has the meaning given by section 4E(6);’.

(8) In the definition of ‘UK work’, for ‘has the meaning given by section 4(10)’ substitute ‘means work which is carried out in the United Kingdom or its territorial waters’.

Amendment of title of the Act

24 (1) The Seafarers’ Wages Act 2023 may be cited as the Seafarers (Wages and Working Conditions) Act 2023.

(2) For the words ‘Seafarers’ Wages Act 2023’ wherever they occur in any enactment substitute ‘Seafarers (Wages and Working Conditions) Act 2023’.”—(Justin Madders.)

This schedule amends the Seafarers’ Wages Act 2023 to give the Secretary of State power to make regulations specifying conditions relating to the wages and working conditions of seafarers working on ships providing services currently covered by that Act. Those conditions are enforceable in the same way as existing provisions of that Act.

Brought up, read the First and Second time, and added to the Bill.

Clause 113

Power to make consequential amendments

Question proposed, That the clause stand part of the Bill.

--- Later in debate ---

[Justin Madders]

I will be brief. The clauses are simple and standard, and they appear in most legislation.

Clause 113 will allow the Secretary of State to make consequential amendments—that is, amendments that are immediately consequent upon a provision in the Bill—to primary or secondary legislation. Consequential amendments are necessary changes to other legislation to ensure that the law works alongside the changes to the law made in the Bill. Subsection (2) will allow the power to be used to amend primary legislation where we would not expect to be burdened with further primary legislation to make changes. Subsection (4) sets out that regulations that amend primary legislation will be subject to the affirmative procedure, thus maintaining Parliament’s ability to scrutinise the provisions made under the power.

Clause 114 will allow the Secretary of State to make two types of provision. The first type is a transitional provision, which can be used specifically to assist the changeover from the state of the law before the Bill comes into force to the state of the law when it is fully in force. The second type is a saving provision, which can be used to preserve certain elements of the old law even after the new law comes into effect. They are used to maintain specific rights, obligations or legal effects that existed under the old law so that the changes will not apply in certain pre-existing cases.

We have ensured that the powers conferred on the Secretary of State to make provisions under clauses 113 and 114 are limited. As I say, the clauses are customary provisions. I commend them to the Committee.

[Greg Smith]

As the Minister says, the clauses are standard in a lot of legislation.

Question put and agreed to.

Clause 113 accordingly ordered to stand part of the Bill.

Clause 114 ordered to stand part of the Bill.

Clause 115

Regulations

--- Later in debate ---

[Justin Madders]

The shadow Minister’s amendment 164, as he said, would require the Secretary of State to have regard to the UK’s growth and international competitiveness when making any regulations under the Bill. As the shadow Minister knows, the Government are committed to getting growth in this country back on track and to maintaining and strengthening our international standing. I noticed that in his litany of negative economic news, he forgot to mention today’s growth figures, which show us back in positive territory.

Our employment rights framework is about ensuring that the economy works for everyone. The Government believe our plan to make work pay will bring the UK back in line internationally and tackle issues with low growth, productivity and pay. The plan is not only a core part of the mission to grow the economy, but crucial to delivering on our milestone to raise living standards across the country and to create opportunities for all. It sits alongside work on planning reform, the skills revolution, tackling inactivity and launching our vision for a modern industrial strategy. The strategy will enable the UK’s already world-leading services and manufacturing sectors to adapt and grow, seizing opportunities internationally to lead in new sectors, with high-quality, well-paid jobs. It will be grounded in long-term stability, a renewed commitment to free and fair trade, and a pro-business approach focused on reducing barriers to investment in the UK.

We have committed to full and detailed engagement with businesses and trade unions alike as we develop the detail of regulations under the Bill. Our published impact assessment evaluates a wide range of evidence and concludes that the package could have a direct and positive impact on growth. Our intention is to refine our analysis as policy development continues, including by publishing updated option assessments and impact assessments, alongside future consultations and secondary legislation, to meet our better regulation requirements. In developing the detail of regulations, our officials and Ministers will pay close heed to the potential impacts on growth, as well as to our international comparability. We are committed to ensuring that we get support across the country among workers and employers alike.

Amendment 165 would require the Secretary of State to consult, and to publish a report of consultation that has been undertaken on specific measures, before making any regulations under the Bill. As was noted by the Liberal Democrat spokesperson, the hon. Member for Torbay, those on the Conservative Benches have taken a rather vacillating approach to consultation during the passage of the Bill, but we have been clear that we are pro-business and pro-worker. That is reflected in our approach, not just in Committee but with engagement since before the Bill’s publication, to ensure that our plan to make work pay is delivered.

As the Committee knows, we have committed to full and comprehensive consultation with all stakeholders. We began in October with an initial consultation package and, as set out in the “Next Steps to Make Work Pay” document, we will consult further on the implementation of the Bill’s measures. Alongside formal consultations, we have conducted extensive engagement on how best to put our plans into practice. We have already held and attended about 40 meetings of external stakeholders related to “Make Work Pay”. Eighteen of those meetings have been specific to businesses, eight specific to trade unions, and seven held in a tripartite setting.

I have written to the shadow Minister with details of the engagement that has already taken place. The figures are not exhaustive and do not include officials’ meetings or recurring meetings with external organisations to discuss a range of topics. I therefore suggest that we are engaging and consulting fully and that the amendment is not necessary.

[Greg Smith]

Well, there we have it. The Government who say they are pro-growth have shown their true colours and will not back our amendment to prove their intentions towards growth. This whole Bill is a socialist charter and we know that we cannot have socialism and growth at the same time. The history books have taught us that time and again.

We deeply regret the Government’s resistance to these two amendments. We will continue to be the party that champions business, growth and getting our economy going again, while this Government do everything they can, in this Bill and in their Budget and in so many other ways, to hold our economy back.

--- Later in debate ---

[Justin Madders]

I hope the Committee will agree that, like other clauses we have debated in part 6, clause 115 is a straightforward and customary provision. It sets out various procedural aspects that are relevant to the making of regulations under the Bill by statutory instrument, with the exception of commencement regulations, which I will speak to separately as they are dealt with in clause 118.

Subsection (2) sets out that regulations made under the Bill may make different provision for different purposes, and that they may contain supplementary, incidental, consequential, transitional or saving provisions. Subsections (4) and (5) explain what is meant by references in the Bill to the negative procedure and the affirmative procedure. The delegated powers memorandum sets out each power in the Bill, as introduced, and justifies the procedure set out in the relevant clause.

[Greg Smith]

I reiterate that we think the clause could have been improved by our amendments, but, for the time being, that is not to be the case.

Question put and agreed to.

Clause 115 accordingly ordered to stand part of the Bill.

Clause 116

Financial provision

Question proposed, That the clause stand part of the Bill.

[The Chair]

With this it will be convenient to discuss clauses 117 to 119 stand part.

[Justin Madders]

Clause 116 simply sets out that expenditure incurred under the terms of the Bill is to be met by supplies from Parliament. Clause 117 sets out the territorial extent of the Bill as introduced. With the exception of clause 25, parts 1, 2 and 4 extend to England, Wales and Scotland; part 3 extends to England and Wales only; and clause 25 and parts 5 and 6 extend to England, Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland. It is also worth noting that amendments or repeals made by the Bill have the same extent as the provision amended or repealed.

Clause 118 sets out the manner in which provisions of the Bill will be commenced. Subsections (1) and (2) set out which provisions come into force on Royal Assent and two months after Royal Assent respectively. In respect of all other provisions, subsection (3) allows the Secretary of State to make regulations setting out the days that such provisions come into force. Finally, clause 119 provides that the short title of the legislation will be the Employment Rights Act.

[Greg Smith]

I am grateful to the Minister for taking us through those standard clauses at the end of the Bill. The only thing worthy of comment, which has come up during our debates on many of the clauses, is the variable commencement timings of some of the provisions, as listed in clause 118. I appreciate that that can happen in legislation from time to time, but the variable timescale adds an element of confusion for businesses. Some provisions will be commenced immediately, some after two months, and some after longer than that.

With that, we come to the end of our debates on the clauses and will move on to decide on measures that we have already debated. As I said in response to the intervention by the hon. Member for Worsley and Eccles in the last debate, we have had a good debate in Committee. We have clearly outlined a number of areas where the two major parties in the House of Commons disagree on the approach to the Bill, but let nobody be in any doubt that we have gone through it line by line and debated it in a good level of detail.

I will end simply by saying that although clause 119 gives the short title of the Bill and says that

“This Act may be cited as the Employment Rights Act 2025”,

the Opposition’s view is that it will, in reality, be the Employment (Job Losses) Act.

Question put and agreed to.

Clause 116 accordingly ordered to stand part of the Bill.

Clause 117

Extent

Amendments made: 206, in clause 117, page 104, line 22, for

“Part 3 of this Act extends”

substitute

“Chapters 1 and 2 of Part 3 of this Act extend”.

This amendment is consequential on Amendment 207.

Amendment 207, in clause 117, page 104, line 22, at end insert—

“(ba) Chapter 3 of Part 3 of this Act extends to England and Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland;”.

This amendment states the extent of the new Chapter proposed to be formed by NC48 and NS3.

Amendment 107, in clause 117, page 104, line 24, at end insert—

“(1A) Sections (Statutory sick pay in Northern Ireland: removal of waiting period) and (Statutory sick pay in Northern Ireland: lower earnings limit etc) (statutory sick pay in Northern Ireland) extend to Northern Ireland only.”

This amendment is consequential on amendments NC5 and NC6; it limits the extent of new clauses (Statutory sick pay in Northern Ireland: removal of waiting period) and (Statutory sick pay in Northern Ireland: lower earnings limit etc) to Northern Ireland only.

Amendment 108, in clause 117, page 104, line 27, leave out “An amendment or repeal” and insert

“Except as set out in subsection (4), an amendment, repeal or revocation”.

This amendment is consequential on NS2 and amendment 109.

Amendment 109, in clause 117, page 104, line 28, leave out “amended or repealed.” and insert

“amended, repealed or revoked.

(4) In Schedule (Increase in time limits for making claims) (increase in time limits for making claims)—

(a) the amendments made by paragraph 9(3) and (4) extend to Northern Ireland only;

(b) the amendments made by paragraphs 10, 12 and 13 extend to England and Wales and Scotland only.”—(Justin Madders.)

This amendment would limit the extent of certain amendments in NS2 so that they only extend to Northern Ireland or Great Britain (where they would otherwise extend to both). This is to ensure that the increase in time limits in those cases only applies in relation to employment tribunals in Great Britain.

Clause 117, as amended, ordered to stand part of the Bill.

Clause 118

Commencement

Amendment made: 110, in clause 118, page 105, line 17, at end insert—

“(na) section (Employment outside Great Britain) (employment outside Great Britain);”.—(Justin Madders.)

This amendment would bring NC7 into force two months after Royal Assent.

Clause 118, as amended, ordered to stand part of the Bill.

Clause 119 ordered to stand part of the Bill.

Title

Amendments made: 208, in title, line 6, after

“Adult Social Care Negotiating Body;”

insert

“to amend the Seafarers’ Wages Act 2023;”.

This amendment is consequential on NS3.

Amendment 209, in title, line 6, after

“Adult Social Care Negotiating Body;”

insert

“to make provision for the implementation of international agreements relating to maritime employment;”.—(Justin Madders.)

This amendment is consequential on NC52.

Question proposed, That the Chair do report the Bill, as amended, to the House.

[Justin Madders]

I wish to thank you, Sir Christopher, and the other Chairs who have presided over this lengthy Bill Committee. I also thank the Clerks, Doorkeepers and Hansard reporters. I thank all members of the Committee who have participated in what has been a healthy and engaging debate. No doubt there will be more discussions and debates to come as the Bill progresses. I also thank the officials Cal Stewart, Jack Masterman and Shelley Torey.

[Laurence Turner (Birmingham Northfield) (Lab)]

Thank you, Sir Christopher. All good things must come to an end, and sadly that includes this Committee. I echo the thanks given by the Minister to the workers—to everyone who has supported the Committee—and I thank our Front Benchers, who have done a sterling job and from time to time gently and appropriately warded us off our individual enthusiasms. Perhaps that was just me.

Work on what became this Bill began a long time ago. It is hard to believe that almost five years have passed since my hon. Friend the Member for Worsley and Eccles and I first became involved in the discussions. To name contributors is to commit the sin of omission. That is the case too for the staff of the Labour party, due to the party’s professional code of modesty, but I would like to place a few names on the record. They include my hon. Friends the Members for Halifax (Kate Dearden) and for Gateshead Central and Whickham (Mark Ferguson), who previously ably represented the Community and Unison unions respectively, including through the Labour party’s national policy forum. That was in itself an exhaustive process. I just say to hon. Members that if they liked this Committee, they would have loved the NPF. I am sorry to disappoint Opposition Members, but there was no smoke in those rooms, and no beer. There were occasionally sandwiches.

I would be in error if I did not personally thank Jaden Wilkins in my office and the staff of the TUC for their consistently excellent research publications. I also thank some of the GMB figures who made critical contributions during that time, including the national political officers during that period—Tom Warnett, Caitlin Prowle and Gavin Sibthorpe, who put in more hours than anyone—the national legal officer, Barry Smith, and the staff of the research and policy department, Anna Barnes, Ross Holden and Cassie Farmer. Finally, I would like to mention the staff of the Trade Union and Labour Party Liaison Organisation: Robbie Scott, Kieran Maxwell and Helen Pearce—the best political organiser in the labour movement, who herded cats and moved mountains.

Employment Rights Bill (Nineteeth sitting)

Justin Madders Excerpts

Committee stage
Tuesday 14th January 2025 Public Bill Committees

[The Chair]

Will everyone please ensure that all their electronic devices are turned off or switched to silent mode? We will now continue line-by-line consideration of the Bill. The grouping and selection list for today’s sittings is available in the room and on the parliamentary website. I remind hon. Members about the rules on declarations of interest, as set out in the code of conduct.

Schedule 6

Consequential amendments relating to Part 5

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Business and Trade (Justin Madders)]

I beg to move amendment 183, in schedule 6, page 135, line 6, leave out “‘Secretary of State’.” and insert

“‘Gangmasters and Labour Abuse Authority or the Secretary of State’.”

This amendment would ensure that section 12(2) of the Gangmasters (Licensing) Act 2004, which makes it an offence for a person to be in possession or control of a “relevant document” that is false or has been improperly obtained with the intention of inducing someone to believe that the person has a licence under that Act, continues to apply in respect of documents issued by the Gangmasters and Labour Abuse Authority in connection with a licence before its abolition.

It is a pleasure to see you in the Chair this morning, Mr Mundell. As is customary, I refer to my declaration of interests and to the Register of Members’ Financial Interests.

The amendment is essential to upholding legal continuity and to preventing any ambiguity or loopholes in enforcement. It will ensure that provisions under the Gangmasters (Licensing) Act 2004 remain enforceable. Without the amendment, there is a risk that any improper conduct in relation to documents issued before the abolition of the Gangmasters and Labour Abuse Authority could fall outside the scope of enforcement.

Fraudulent licences have been used to exploit vulnerable workers and to mislead employers, particularly in industries such as agriculture and food processing. The amendment will strengthen deterrence against document fraud and ensure that enforcement agencies retain the tools that they need to protect workers effectively.

[Greg Smith (Mid Buckinghamshire) (Con)]

It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship once more, Mr Mundell.

As the Minister has outlined, Government amendment 183 will ensure that section 12(2) of the Gangmasters (Licensing) Act 2004, which makes it an offence for a person to be in possession or control of a relevant document that is false or has been improperly obtained with the intention of inducing someone to believe that the person has a licence under the Act, continues to apply in respect of documents issued by the Gangmasters and Labour Abuse Authority in connection with a licence before its abolition.

Clause 109 will abolish the Gangmasters and Labour Abuse Authority, a non-departmental public body that investigates reports of worker exploitation and illegal activity such as human trafficking, forced labour and illegal labour provision, as well as making offences under the National Minimum Wage Act 1998 and the Employment Agencies Act 1973. Significantly, the Gangmasters and Labour Abuse Authority also issues licences to employment agencies, labour providers or gangmasters who provide workers in the sectors of agriculture, horticulture, shellfish gathering and any associated processing or packaging. That is important work; we do not in any way, shape or form deviate from that.

The Government amendment will rightly ensure that providing false licences remains an offence, including where that was identified before the Bill receives Royal Assent and becomes an Act at some point this year, but I would like to be reassured about the work of the Gangmasters and Labour Abuse Authority in connection with the provisions of the Bill. For example, what will happen to the staff at the authority once it has been abolished? The Bill provides for the transfer of staff, property rights and liabilities to the Secretary of State. Does the Secretary of State envisage redundancies or envisage that the same staff will continue to do the same work under a different ultimate authority? Will the reorganisation lead to any disruption? I think we all accept that any change will bring with it some level of disruption, but how can the disruption be minimised?

Likewise, the amendment appears to ensure continuity with existing legislation once the Bill has passed. I will be grateful if the Minister can confirm that that is the case. If any new powers are being taken, please could they be explained?

--- Later in debate ---

[Sir Ashley Fox]

The hon. Member makes a number of valuable points. The proposed removal of the GLAA raises concerns about how its important functions will be handled. It is imperative that a robust alternative structure be put in place to address those critical issues and to continue protecting workers’ rights and preventing exploitation.

The GLAA’s work is crucial in specific sectors in which workers are at a heightened risk of exploitation. They include agriculture, horticulture, shellfish gathering and the associated processing and packaging industries. Such sectors often rely on seasonal or temporary labour, which makes workers more vulnerable to abuse. The GLAA has been tasked with ensuring that employment agencies and gangmasters in those areas are properly licensed and comply with legal and ethical standards. Without a continued effective regulatory body, there is a risk that workers in those sectors could face greater vulnerability to exploitation. The amendment ensures that even after the GLAA is abolished, protections relating to fraudulent licences remain in place to help to prevent future abuses in those critical sectors.

Although the amendment will rightly ensure that the offence of providing false licences will continue, including for cases identified prior to the passage of the Bill, there remains a need for reassurance about the future of the GLAA’s core responsibilities. The work of the GLAA in investigating and responding to incidents of worker exploitation is vital. As the Bill progresses, it is crucial that there is a clear and publicly communicated plan for transferring and maintaining those functions under the new framework. The question remains of how those critical duties will be continued effectively under the new system. What mechanisms are in place to ensure that the same level of oversight and enforcement will be maintained without compromising workers’ protections?

One significant issue that arises from the abolition of the GLAA is the future of its staff. The Bill stipulates that staff, property, rights and liabilities will be transferred to the Secretary of State. However, there is a need for further clarity on the fate of staff members, who have been dedicated to the GLAA’s mission. Will there be redundancies, or will staff members be reassigned to continue their work under a new authority such as the fair work agency? In the latter case, it will be essential to understand how that transition will be managed. Will those staff members continue to do the same work, or will there be changes to their roles? Furthermore, will the reorganisation cause any disruption to the ongoing work of tackling labour exploitation and illegal labour practices? Minimising disruption in that process is crucial to ensure that there is no gap in the important regulatory and enforcement work carried out by the GLAA.

Government amendment 183 appears to be designed to ensure that existing legislation, particularly in relation to worker protections and the regulation of labour providers, continues to apply once the Bill passes. It would have been reassuring to have confirmation that the intention behind the amendment is to maintain the existing legal framework and obligations. The continuity of those provisions is critical to ensuring that workers remain protected and that the work of tackling exploitation and human trafficking continues without interruption. I would be grateful for the Minister’s confirmation that the amendment will ensure that the key elements of existing legislation remain in force.

Finally, if the Bill introduces any new powers, it is important that the need for those powers be fully explained and understood. The amendment and the Bill more broadly implement changes that could have significant implications both for employers and for their employees. It would be helpful to have clarification on whether the new powers will be used to expand the role of the Secretary of State or the fair work agency in monitoring and regulating sectors previously overseen by the GLAA. How will those new powers affect existing regulations? What safeguards will be in place to ensure that they are used appropriately and effectively?

[Justin Madders]

That was quite a lengthy debate for a technical amendment. This amendment to schedule 6 will ensure continuity of function, which was one of the main points that the shadow Minister and the hon. Member for Bridgwater made. We are alive to their concern that there is a hole through which provisions can fall: there are a number of amendments to make sure that there is continuity of legal force and in the ability to carry out the functions of the predecessor authorities.

Both hon. Members asked about redundancies. It is premature to talk about operational matters of that nature. The impact assessment is being carried out on the basis of the existing budgets of the relevant agencies. No reduction in staff members is anticipated, but as we move forward, efficiencies and duplications may become apparent when the agencies are merged, which may lead to other changes to the way in which matters are carried out, and those will clearly be dealt with.

There was a concern that the reorganisation could lead to disruption, which is certainly not our intention. We expect the agencies to be able to continue to carry out existing investigations—indeed, many of the amendments are being made with that in mind to ensure that continuity is preserved. I remind Opposition Members that the purpose of the fair work agency is to ensure that intelligence is shared and resources are pooled so that we can be more effective in our labour market abuse enforcement mechanisms. That has been widely supported across the entire group of stakeholders.

In terms of oversight, there will be an advisory board, reports and strategies and the Secretary of State will be answerable to Parliament for the work of the fair work agency. We will no doubt return to that on a number of occasions as the detail is fleshed out. I commend the amendments to the Committee.

Amendment 183 agreed to.

Amendments made: 102, in schedule 6, page 137, line 13, at end insert—

“(3A) In the italic heading before paragraph 10, omit “of Authority”.”

This amendment makes a minor drafting correction.

Amendment 103, in schedule 6, page 137, line 15, leave out “the heading and”.—(Justin Madders.)

This is consequential on amendment 102.

[Justin Madders]

I beg to move amendment 104, in schedule 6, page 140, line 26, leave out “and (4)” and insert “, (4), (8) and (9)”.

This amendment, and amendments 105 and 106, make further minor amendments of section 114B of the Police and Criminal Evidence Act 1984 as a result of the replacement of labour abuse prevention officers by enforcement officers under Part 5 of the Bill.

[The Chair]

With this it will be convenient to discuss Government amendments 105 and 106.

[Justin Madders]

Schedule 6 outlines consequential amendments to other legislation and will ensure consistency with the provisions introduced by the Bill. It will also ensure that our legislative framework is cohesive and functional.

The amendments will make essential technical adjustments to section 114B of the Police and Criminal Evidence Act 1984 to reflect the replacement of labour abuse prevention officers with enforcement officers, as defined in part 5 of the Bill. They will update references, revise definitions and ensure consistency between this Bill and existing legislation. The amendments will avoid confusion and ensure that our statutory framework functions effectively. I commend these minor technical amendments to the Committee.

[Greg Smith]

I am grateful to the Minister for explaining these further minor amendments to section 114B of the Police and Criminal Evidence Act, being made as a result of the replacement of labour abuse prevention officers with enforcement officers under part 5 of the Bill. The amendments are another consequence of centralising the different enforcement agencies that operate under the auspices of the fair work agency.

I would be grateful to have the Minister’s reassurance that all current enforcement work will still be able to be carried out to the same standard during the period of reorganisation. In the previous debate, he indicated that he did not expect disruption; I gently put it to him that that is probably on the optimistic end of the scale. No matter the good intention behind any reorganisation, or the will, endless planning and everything that goes into it from a lot of good people putting in a lot of hard work, the reality is that any reorganisation can cause disruption, either in its own right or through unexpected events.

I will give a parallel closer to home. In my constituency, Buckinghamshire unitary council was created to go live just as the pandemic was starting. Four district councils and a county council were put together at the point at which we were all sent home, so everyone was working from home and having to rise to a local authority’s duties to put in place resilience measures to support people through the pandemic.

--- Later in debate ---

[Sir Ashley Fox]

Amendments 104 to 106 propose minor but necessary changes to section 114B of the Police and Criminal Evidence Act 1984, arising from the changes introduced under part 5 of the Bill, particularly the replacement of labour abuse prevention officers by enforcement officers. The intention behind the change is to streamline and update the regulatory framework in response to the restructuring of enforcement roles. By introducing enforcement officers under the new structure, the Government aim to enhance the effectiveness of labour abuse prevention while ensuring that there is no gap in oversight and enforcement. These minor amendments are crucial to align existing legislation with the nearly structured responsibilities and authority of enforcement officers, who will now take on the duties previously held by labour abuse prevention officers.

The centralisation of enforcement agencies under the fair work agency is part of a broader effort to centralise and co-ordinate the various enforcement agencies that currently operate. By bringing the enforcement bodies together under a single umbrella, the Government aim to create a more co-ordinated, efficient and consistent approach to tackling labour abuses and ensuring that workers’ rights are upheld across different sectors. The centralisation process is designed to improve the effectiveness of enforcement and simplify the regulatory landscape for both businesses and workers, but as we move through the reorganisation period, it is essential that all enforcement activities continue to be carried out seamlessly, without any disruption or decrease in the standard of oversight. That is particularly important as the new system is put in place, as workers rely on enforcement mechanisms to protect their rights.

I seek reassurance on the continuity of enforcement standards during the reorganisation. Given the significant structural changes involved, I ask the Minister to assure me that all current enforcement work will continue to be carried out to the same high standard during the transition period. The centralisation of enforcement agencies is a significant undertaking, and it is vital that the effectiveness of enforcement operations is not compromised during the restructuring process. Workers and businesses must be confident that the protections afforded by the existing enforcement framework will remain intact, and that enforcement officers will have the tools, resources and authority that they need to address breaches of the law effectively. I would appreciate clarification on how the Government plan to ensure that no enforcement gaps occur during the reorganisation, and that current and future enforcement work will be conducted at the same high level of competence.

[Justin Madders]

It seems we have a little double act developing on the Opposition Front Bench. It reminds me a little bit of Waldorf and Statler, without the puns. Both the hon. Member for Mid Buckinghamshire and the hon. Member for Bridgwater sought similar and important assurances that the work of the agencies would be able to be carried out effectively during this period of transition. I note what the hon. Member for Mid Buckinghamshire mentioned about the Mid Buckinghamshire reorganisation.

[Greg Smith]

All of Buckinghamshire.

[Justin Madders]

All of Buckinghamshire, yes—with the hon. Member right in the middle where he truly belongs. I do recall that the previous Government decided to set up the UK Health Security Agency in the middle of the pandemic, which was a challenging time to do that. It has been shown that the people doing the job day to day can continue to do it while the institutional reform carries on, making it more likely that they will be effective in carrying out their work through the sharing of resources, evidence and expertise, as well as, hopefully, a more unified approach to enforcement. Clearly, we want those doing the day-to-day work to be able to carry on doing that and a number of these amendments enable them to do that. We hope that, as the agency forms and more joint working is developed, they will become more effective.

Amendment 104 agreed to.

Amendments made: 105, in schedule 6, page 140, line 26, at end insert—

‘(4A) In subsection (10), for “Any other” substitute “A”.’

See the explanatory statement for amendment 104.

Amendment 106, in schedule 6, page 140, line 27, leave out sub-paragraph (5) and insert—

‘(5) For subsection (11) substitute—

“(11) In this section—

“enforcement officer” has the meaning given by section 72(3)

of the Employment Rights Act 2025;

“labour market offence” has the same meaning as in Part 5 of that Act (see section 112(1) of that Act).”’—(Justin Madders.)

See the explanatory statement for amendment 104.

[Justin Madders]

I beg to move amendment 184, in schedule 6, page 141, line 7, at end insert—

“Employment Tribunals Act 1996

70A In section 19A of the Employment Tribunals Act 1996 (conciliation: recovery of sums payable under settlements), omit subsection (10A).”

This amendment provides for a minor consequential amendment relating to Part 5 of the Bill.

[The Chair]

With this it will be convenient to discuss Government amendment 188.

[Justin Madders]

Schedule 6 makes consequential amendments to existing legislation to ensure consistency with the new provisions introduced by the Bill. The amendments make essential technical adjustments to the Employment Tribunals Act 1996 and the Small Business, Enterprise and Employment Act 2015, updating references and ensuring consistency between the Bill and existing legislation.

Government amendment 184 omits section 19A(10A) of the Employment Tribunals Act 1996, which makes provision for the disclosure of settlement terms to an enforcement officer appointed under section 37M of the same Act. Section 37M is repealed by the Bill, as it has been superseded by the new provisions of the Bill on the appointment of fair work agency officers. Clauses 98 and 99(1) of the Bill provide gateways for the disclosure of information to fair work agency officers. Government amendment 184 repeals section 19A(10A), as the provision is no longer required in the light of the new provisions introduced by the Bill. Government amendment 188 is consequential to Government amendment 184. The amendment prevents confusion and ensures our statutory framework continues to function effectively.

[Greg Smith]

For the next part of the double act —I will casually ignore the Minister’s comparison—I will speak to Government amendments 184 and 188. Amendment 184 is a minor amendment relating to part 5 of the Bill and amendment 188 is consequential on amendment 184. As the Minister said, amendment 184 removes section 19A(10A) of the Employment Tribunals Act 1996. Section 19A concerns the

“recovery of sums payable under settlements”

and subsection (10A) provides that the court may make provision as to the time within which an application to the county court for a declaration under subsection (4) is to be made. Subsection (4) states:

“A settlement sum is not recoverable under subsection (3) if—

(a) the person by whom it is payable applies for a declaration that the sum would not be recoverable from him under the general law of contract, and

(b) that declaration is made.”

 

Notwithstanding the Minister’s explanation, it is still not entirely clear to the Committee, or indeed to the whole House, why it is necessary to delete subsection (10A) from the Employment Tribunals Act 1996. I am sure there is a very convoluted reason for it out there somewhere, but it seems to us that the will of the Government in putting this legislation before Parliament does not need that deletion in order to function. I would be grateful if the Minister gave a fuller explanation of the need for that deletion in his summing-up.

[Sir Ashley Fox]

Amendment 184 proposes the removal of subsection (10A) from section 19A of the Employment Tribunals Act 1996, which deals with the recovery of sums payment under settlements, specifically addressing situations in which a party seeks a declaration from the court regarding the recoverability of a settlement sum.

Under subsection (10A), the court has the discretion to make provisions regarding the timeframe within which an application must be made to the county court for a declaration under subsection (4). Subsection (4) essentially provides that a settlement sum will not be recoverable if the person liable to pay the sum seeks a declaration from the court that, under general contract law, the sum is not recoverable from them. The removal of subsection (10A) raises important questions about the implications of the timing and procedure of such applications.

Given that the removal of subsection (10A) may have significant consequences for how significant settlement sums are handled and claims are processed in the future, will the Minister explain why this provision is being deleted? Understanding the reasoning behind the change is important for assessing its potential impact on workers and employers. Will the removal of this provision simplify the process for parties seeking a declaration regarding the recoverability of settlement sums or will it introduce new challenges or delays in the legal process? Furthermore, how will this change affect the ability of individuals to seek a fair resolution in cases where disputes over settlement sums arise? Clarification from the Minister on these points would be appreciated as it would help ensure that stakeholders fully understand the intended effects.

[Justin Madders]

Hopefully, I can put Opposition Members’ minds at rest about the need for the amendment. It is about simplifying the legislative framework. Section 19A(10A) of the 1996 Act is about disclosure of settlement terms to enforcement officers who are appointed under section 37M of that Act. As that is now being repealed by and superseded by the provisions in this Bill, particularly clauses 98 and 99, that provision is no longer required in the 1996 Act. That is why it is being removed; the current arrangements remain in place, but they will all be in one place, in this Bill. We hope that will provide clarity and certainty for those who wish to avail themselves of the rights and obligations under this legislation.

Amendment 184 agreed to.

[Justin Madders]

I beg to move amendment 185, in schedule 6, page 141, line 33, leave out from “2025)” to end of line 2 on page 142 and insert

“acting in the exercise of functions conferred on them by virtue of section 114B of the Police and Criminal Evidence Act 1984;”;”.

This amendment is consequential on amendment 186.

[The Chair]

With this it will be convenient to discuss Government amendments 187 and 186.

[Justin Madders]

The amendments make essential adjustments to the Employment Rights Bill ensuring that there is a process for appropriate oversight of police powers used by officers within the fair work agency. There will be a subsection of enforcement officers within the fair work agency who will be able to use police powers under the Police and Criminal Evidence Act. It is important that there is appropriate oversight of officers using these powers as part of their investigations.

This is not a new power. Currently, Labour abuse prevention officers within the Gangmasters and Labour Abuse Authority are able to use these Police and Criminal Evidence Act powers. Any complaints or allegations of misconduct are investigated by the Independent Office for Police Conduct, thereby ensuring that enforcement officers use their powers responsibly and within legal boundaries. The amendments ensure that the existing oversight arrangements with the IOPC can continue with the fair work agency on abolition of the GLAA. On that note, I hope the Committee will accept amendments 185, 186 and 187.

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[Sir Ashley Fox]

Amendments 186 and 187 propose important changes that would grant the Secretary of State the power to make regulations enabling the director general of the Independent Office for Police Conduct to handle complaints and misconduct related to enforcement officers who exercise police powers. This would involve granting the IOPC the authority to oversee complaints regarding enforcement officers as they carry out their duties, particularly when acting within the scope of the powers given to them under section 114B of the Police and Criminal Evidence Act 1984.

Amendment 185 is consequential to those changes, ensuring that the necessary legislative framework aligns with the proposed regulations. Specifically, amendment 186 outlines that the Secretary of State will have the authority to make regulations that will confer specific functions on the director general of the IOPC. Those functions would relate to enforcement officers when they exercise powers granted to them through section 114B of the 1984 Act, which provides enforcement officers with certain powers, and this amendment ensures that there are appropriate mechanisms in place to address any complaints or allegations of misconduct arising from their use of these powers.

I would be grateful if the Minister provided further clarification on the scope of these regulations. Specifically, it would be helpful to understand what types of function the Secretary of State is likely to impose on the director general of the IOPC. For instance, will the regulations specify procedures for investigating complaints, the methods of oversight, or protocols for handling disciplinary actions against enforcement officers? What types of misconduct or complaint are anticipated to fall within this framework? Moreover, how do the Government envisage the IOPC’s role evolving, with the additional responsibility for overseeing enforcement officers under these amendments?

Understanding the intended use of these powers will help stakeholders anticipate the practical effects of these changes and their potential impacts on enforcement officers’ accountability. A key concern is whether the IOPC will be granted greater powers under this proposed framework. The IOPC’s current remit covers complaints and misconduct relating to police officers, but the introduction of enforcement officers who possess police powers raises important questions about whether the IOPC will have the authority to investigate misconduct claims against those officers in a similarly robust manner. Will the IOPC be granted expanded investigatory powers to ensure that complaints involving enforcement officers are handled thoroughly and impartially?

Additionally, will the IOPC have the authority to impose sanctions on enforcement officers found to have committed misconduct? If sanctions are available, it would be useful to understand what types of action the IOPC could take, such as recommending disciplinary measures, issuing fines or referring cases for criminal prosecution.

Providing clarity on the scope of the IOPC’s powers in relation to enforcement officers will be crucial for ensuring that those officers remain accountable for their actions while exercising their police powers.

[Justin Madders]

I am grateful to Opposition Members for raising those questions. I can reassure them that this is not about creating new powers, either for enforcement officers or for the IOPC. It is about transferring the existing responsibility that the IOPC has for designated officers with police-style powers to the fair work agency. The discussions have been on the basis that there would not be any additional resource implications for the IOPC. Obviously, if that were to change in due course, when the fair work agency is under way, there would be discussions about that. It is simply about the existing powers under section 114B of the Police and Criminal Evidence Act being applicable to the enforcement officers of the fair work agency on exactly the same basis as they are now. I hope that that has put Opposition Members’ minds at rest. On that note, I commend the amendments to the Committee.

Amendment 185 agreed to.

Amendments made: 187, in schedule 6, page 142, line 3, after “(3)” insert “—

(i) after paragraph (bc) insert—

‘(bca) any regulations under section 26CA of this Act (enforcement officers appointed under Employment Rights Act 2025);’;

(ii)”.

See the explanatory statement for amendment 186.

Amendment 186, in schedule 6, page 142, line 3, at end insert—

“(2A) After section 26C insert—

‘26CA Enforcement officers appointed under Employment Rights Act 2025

(1) The Secretary of State may make regulations conferring functions on the Director General in relation to enforcement officers acting in the exercise of functions conferred on them by virtue of section 114B of the Police and Criminal Evidence Act 1984.

(2) In this section “enforcement officer” means a person appointed by the Secretary of State under section 72 of the Employment Rights Act 2025.

(3) Regulations under this section may, in particular—

(a) apply (with or without modifications), or make provision similar to, any provision of or made under this Part;

(b) make provision for payment by the Secretary of State to, or in respect of, the Office or in respect of the Director General.

(4) The Director General and the Parliamentary Commissioner for Administration may jointly investigate a matter in relation to which—

(a) the Director General has functions by virtue of this section, and

(b) the Parliamentary Commissioner for Administration has functions by virtue of the Parliamentary Commissioner Act 1967.

(5) The Secretary of State or an enforcement officer may disclose information to the Director General, or to a person acting on the Director General’s behalf, for the purposes of the exercise by the Director General, or by any person acting on the Director General’s behalf, of a relevant complaints function.

(6) The Director General and the Parliamentary Commissioner for Administration may disclose information to each other for the purposes of the exercise of a function—

(a) by virtue of this section, or

(b) under the Parliamentary Commissioner Act 1967.

(7) Regulations under this section may, in particular, make—

(a) further provision about the disclosure of information under subsection (5) or (6);

(b) provision about the further disclosure of information that has been so disclosed.

(8) A disclosure of information authorised by this section does not breach—

(a) any obligation of confidence owed by the person making the disclosure, or

(b) any other restriction on the disclosure of information (however imposed).

(9) But this section does not authorise a disclosure of information that—

(a) would contravene the data protection legislation (but in determining whether a disclosure would do so, the power conferred by this section is to be taken into account), or

(b) is prohibited by any of Parts 1 to 7 or Chapter 1 of Part 9 of the Investigatory Powers Act 2016.

(10) In this section—

“the data protection legislation” has the same meaning as in the Data Protection Act 2018 (see section 3 of that Act);

“relevant complaints function” means a function in relation to the exercise of functions by enforcement officers.’”

This amendment and amendment 187 would enable the Secretary of State to make regulations enabling the Director General of the Independent Office for Police Conduct to deal with complaints and misconduct relating to enforcement officers who are exercising police powers.

Amendment 188, in schedule 6, page 143, line 19, leave out “subsection” and insert “subsections (4) and”.

This amendment is consequential on amendment 184.

Amendment 189, in schedule 6, page 144, line 10, at end insert—

“Sentencing Act 2020

92A In section 379(1) of the Sentencing Act 2020 (other behaviour orders etc), after the entry for the Northern Ireland Troubles (Legacy and Reconciliation) Act 2023 insert—

[Justin Madders]

I beg to move amendment 190, in schedule 6, page 144, line 10, at end insert—

“Police, Crime, Sentencing and Courts Act 2022

92B In Part 2 of Schedule 3 to the Police, Crime, Sentencing and Courts Act 2022 (extraction of information from electronic devices: authorised persons in relation to all purposes within section 37), after the entry relating to section 15 of the Gangmasters (Licensing) Act 2004 insert—

‘A person who is an enforcement officer for the purposes of Part 5 of the Employment Rights Act 2025.’”

This amendment would authorise enforcement officers under Part 5 of the Bill to exercise the powers conferred by section 37 of the Police, Crime, Sentencing and Courts Act 2022 to extract information stored on electronic devices for the purposes of, among other things, criminal investigations.

Government amendment 190 is another technical amendment to ensure continuity and effectiveness of the enforcement power under section 37 of the Police, Crime, Sentencing and Courts Act 2022. The Bill provides the building blocks for us to set up the fair work agency, which involves transferring enforcement functions that are currently split between multiple bodies, including the Gangmasters and Labour Abuse Authority. The GLAA office currently exercises its power across the UK under section 37 of the 2022 Act. Without this amendment, enforcement officers in England, Wales and Scotland would not have access to critical investigatory powers under that Act. Only officers enforcing the Gangmasters (Licensing) Act 2004 in Northern Ireland would retain those powers, creating an unjustifiable enforcement gap.

Investigations increasingly rely on access to electronic data, such as payroll records and communication logs. Excluding fair work agency officers from these powers would severely hinder their ability to obtain critical information, leaving them ill-equipped to tackle non-compliance and labour exploitation effectively.

The amendment ensures that enforcement powers remain consistent across England, Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland, aligning with the policy aim of the fair work agency to deliver robust and uniform enforcement. Fair work agency officers would exercise the section 37 power in relation to labour market offences. That expands the scope of the power, as currently the power is exercised by GLAA officers only in connection with enforcement of the 2004 Act.

This amendment would mean that the power is used by fair work agency officers to enforce the broader range of legislation under their remit, which means that the power could be exercised in relation to any labour market offence, instead of just offences under the 2004 Act. That will prevent any disparity in enforcement capabilities that could undermine efforts to protect vulnerable workers and uphold compliance.

This amendment corrects a minor technical oversight during the drafting process, ensuring that the legislation accurately reflects operational needs. It aligns with the overarching policy intention to ensure that there is no reduction in enforcement capability as enforcement bodies transfer into the fair work agency, and it directly addresses concerns and strengthens the Bill’s overall effectiveness. In conclusion, this amendment is essential to prevent enforcement gaps, ensure parity across jurisdictions, and equip enforcement officers with the tools that they need to combat exploitation in the modern economy.

[Greg Smith]

As the Minister outlined in his opening remarks, Government amendment 190 would authorise enforcement officers, under part 5 of the Bill, to exercise the powers conferred by section 37 of the Police, Crime, Sentencing and Courts Act 2022 to extract information stored on electronic devices for the purposes of, among other things, criminal investigations.

As I understand it, the power conferred by section 37 of the 2022 Act may be exercised only for the purposes of preventing, detecting, investigating or prosecuting crime; helping to locate a missing person; or protecting a child or at-risk adult from neglect or physical, mental or emotional harm. How often does the Minister envisage that that power would be needed when enforcing employment law?

It is a very important power in the cases that I have outlined—not least for the critical work of protecting children and at-risk adults from neglect or physical, mental or emotional harm—but, I repeat, how often does the Minister envisage that it will be needed in employment law? What safeguards will be in place to prevent an inappropriate or intrusive use of the power? It seems an odd fit in this Bill.

Those matters are all rightly—I have double underlined that word—covered in other parts of legislation and enforced daily by the police and other agencies. His Majesty’s loyal Opposition salute everyone involved in the prevention of harm and the prosecution of its perpetrators, but I repeat that the power seems an odd fit with this Bill.

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[Sir Ashley Fox]

The amendment would grant enforcement officers, under part 5 of the Bill, the authority to exercise the powers outlined in section 37 of the Police, Crime, Sentencing and Courts Act 2022. Specifically, it would enable those officers to extract information from electronic devices in certain circumstances. Of course, everyone now carries one of those electronic devices.

The amendment is designed to support enforcement officers in carrying out their duties, including the investigation and enforcement of employment laws, particularly in cases that may involve criminal activities, such as exploitation, trafficking or financial misconduct. The ability to access electronic devices and retrieve relevant data will aid in gathering evidence and conducting thorough investigations, especially when digital evidence is critical to uncovering illegal practices.

To clarify the scope of that power, section 37 of the 2022 Act limits the use of the power to specific purposes. The powers can be exercised for the following objectives: preventing crime, which could include investigating cases of worker exploitation, trafficking or other forms of criminal behaviour related to employment law; detecting criminal activity, such as fraudulent schemes or illegal practices by employers; investigating crimes, especially where there is a digital trail or evidence related to labour abuse, fraud or similar issues that could be crucial to the case; prosecuting crime and ensuring that the evidence gathered can be used in legal proceedings to hold perpetrators accountable; locating missing persons, which could be relevant in situations involving forced labour or human trafficking; and protecting vulnerable individuals, such as children or at-risk adults, from harm, including neglect or physical, mental or emotional abuse in the workplace.

Those strict conditions are in place to ensure that the powers are used appropriately and only when there is a legitimate and necessary reason to extract information from electronic devices. While that power can be extremely valuable in investigating serious crimes, it is important to consider how often such powers will be needed when enforcing employment law specifically. The nature of employment law enforcement does not always require the same level of investigation into criminal activities as, for example, police work or national security investigations. Thus, I would appreciate an insight from the Minister regarding the frequency with which the power is likely to be used in the enforcement of employment laws. Is the power expected to be a routine tool, or will it be reserved for exceptional circumstances where there is significant evidence suggesting the need for such an intrusive measure?

Additionally, it is crucial to ensure that safeguards are in place to prevent any inappropriate or intrusive use of the power. Given the sensitivity of extracting data from electronic devices, there is a need for strict guidelines and oversight to ensure that the power is not abused. How will the Government ensure that the power is used proportionately and responsibly? What measures will be put in place to prevent overreach and protect the privacy of individuals who are not involved in criminal activity? For example, will there be a requirement for judicial authorisation before enforcement officers can access private data? Will there be any independent oversight to review the use of these powers and prevent misuse?

I would be grateful if the Minister outlined the safeguards and controls that will be implemented to ensure that the power is not used excessively or for purposes outside its intended scope. Furthermore, what will the procedures be for ensuring accountability and transparency in the use of this power?

[Justin Madders]

The shadow Minister and the hon. Member for Bridgwater asked me the “how long is a piece of string?” question—that is, how often the powers will be used. The best thing I can do is to come back to both of them with how often they have been used in recent times because, of course, there is an existing power with the Gangmasters and Labour Abuse Authority.

I was asked various questions about the use of powers, oversight and so on. Clauses 78 and 79 set out the powers that officers have. As we have discussed, we expect that these things will be the culmination of an ongoing dialogue between a particular business and the fair work agency. When there is non-compliance, these powers can be used as a last resort. Clause 83 sets out some of the oversight provisions.

[Nick Timothy]

Government amendment 190 is about the powers in section 37 of the Police, Crime, Sentencing and Courts Act 2022, which relate to the voluntary provision of a device for an enforcement officer to access. If there is not agreement, I am not sure what arises. The Minister just said that the proposal is about dealing with a situation whereby a negotiation between the fair work agency and the company has not led to a resolution. What happens if there is not agreement?

[Justin Madders]

As I said, if there is not agreement, the provisions in clauses 78, 79 and 83, which we debated last week, will come into play.

On the existing framework, the powers that we have set out are already in use. The Bill will make them available to all enforcement officers. They will be used only by people who have sufficient training and oversight within the organisation.

I was asked whether the code of practice will be updated. We are engaging with the Home Office on that. That is something that needs to be considered, given that the agency is being formed.

The hon. Member for West Suffolk was right to ask about proportionality. We do not see that there will be any change in how the system works on an operational basis as a result of these amendments. They really are about transposing the existing powers and safeguards into the Bill.

Amendment 190 agreed to.

Question proposed, That the schedule, as amended, be the Sixth schedule to the Bill.

[Justin Madders]

Part 5 of the Bill lays the groundwork for the creation of the fair work agency. It involves abolishing the Gangmasters and Labour Abuse Authority and the Director of Labour Market Enforcement, and transferring their functions to the Secretary of State.

Schedule 6 sets out consequential amendments that we are making to various Acts of Parliament as a result of these reforms. Part 1 of the schedule covers the consequential amendments to existing powers under relevant pieces of labour market legislation. Part 2 sets out the changes required to other Acts. The schedule is necessary to deliver a functioning and cohesive statute book and to deliver the policy intention of upgrading enforcement of workers’ rights.

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[Steve Darling]

I echo the shadow Minister, who sits to my right—in more ways than one. Definitely, further clarity from the Minister would be welcome.

[Justin Madders]

I understand what the Opposition Members are saying. They seek reassurance that there will be no disruption to the good work that goes on already, and clearly, that is our intent. We will keep a close eye on how this works when the Bill has passed and received Royal Assent. A lot of the operational questions that have been asked will emerge during that time. Whether the hon. Member for Mid Buckinghamshire remains my shadow—either of us could of course be moved on at any point—it would be perfectly reasonable for us to keep the Opposition updated on operational decisions and how the fair work agency emerges. There will of course be further parliamentary opportunities for scrutiny as more detail emerges.

Question put and agreed to.

Schedule 6, as amended, accordingly agreed to.

Schedule 7

Transitional and saving provision relating to Part 5

[Justin Madders]

I beg to move amendment 191, in schedule 7, page 146, line 19, after “by” insert “or in relation to”.

This amendment and amendment 192 ensure that things done in relation to existing enforcement officers, for example, before the coming into force of Part 5 of the Bill continue to have effect as if done in relation to the Secretary of State.

[The Chair]

With this it will be convenient to discuss Government amendments 192, 197 and 200.

[Justin Madders]

The schedule sets out transitional and savings provisions. It ensures a smooth changeover from the existing enforcement framework to the new provisions introduced by the Bill. That is of course important because it makes our legislative framework cohesive and functional.

Government amendment 191 is a necessary technical provision to ensure that the transition of enforcement responsibilities under part 5 of the Bill is well ordered. By clarifying that actions taken not just “by” but “in relation” to enforcement officers will continue to have effect as if done in relation to the Secretary of State, we are safeguarding a continuity in enforcement processes and ensuring no disruption to ongoing cases or decisions, which I am sure Members will be relieved to hear.

Government amendment 192 makes a consequential change to align with Government amendment 191, and Government amendments 197 and 200 make minor drafting changes in schedule 7. They do not affect the substance of the Bill, but they improve its clarity and accuracy. I hope that hon. Members will support what I imagine are uncontroversial amendments and support achieving the aim of ensuring continuity and cohesiveness as we move forward. On that note, I commend the amendments to the Committee.

[Greg Smith]

Government amendments 191 and 192 ensure that things done “in relation to” existing enforcement officers—for example, before part 5 of the Bill comes into force—continue to have effect as if done “in relation to” the Secretary of State. I fully accept that Government amendments 197 and 200 make minor drafting changes, which look as though they ensure legal continuity—that would be the case, based on the Minister’s opening remarks—and therefore seem sensible, given the policy direction.

I can conclude my comments on the amendments only by asking the usual question, which I have asked many times in Committee and fear I will ask a few more times during the debate over the remainder of today, Thursday and next Tuesday: should the amendments have been included in the Bill on its introduction? This is yet another example of why it is foolish to rush anything, particularly getting a Bill out in 100 days and its consideration in Committee.

[Sir Ashley Fox]

Government amendments 191 and 192 are designed to ensure legal continuity for actions and decisions made regarding existing enforcement officers prior to the implementation of part 5 of the Bill. They stipulate that any actions or procedures carried out “in relation to” enforcement officers before the new provisions come into force, such as appointments, disciplinary actions or administrative functions, will continue to have the same legal effect as if they had been made “in relation to” the Secretary of State. That is important, because it prevents any disruption or confusion in the legal standing of prior actions, ensuring that they are not rendered ineffective by the changes introduced by the Bill. Essentially, the amendments provide a mechanism to ensure that the transition to the new legal framework does not invalidate or interfere with prior administrative or operational activities.

The rationale behind the amendments is straightforward: it is legal continuity. As enforcement officers are brought under a new regulatory framework, it is crucial that past actions related to their roles, such as those conducted before the Bill takes effect, are preserved and do not need to be revisited or re-executed under the new provisions. That ensures that there is no disruption in the functioning of enforcement operations and that any ongoing matters involving enforcement officers continue seamlessly under the authority of the Secretary of State. The amendments clarify that past decisions and procedures will be treated as if they were made under the authority of the new system, which will help to avoid any potential legal challenges or confusion.

Amendments 197 and 200 involve relatively minor drafting changes. Although the specifics of those changes may not substantially alter the substance of the Bill, they are important for clarity, consistency and precision in the text. These types of amendments typically address technical issues, such as language inconsistencies, ambiguities or minor adjustments to improve the readability and legal accuracy of the provisions. Although they do not represent major shifts in policy, such amendments are crucial in ensuring that the Bill’s provisions are clear, unambiguous and legally sound. Even small drafting changes play an important role in improving the overall functionality and effectiveness of the legislation.

Amendments 197 and 200 help to fine-tune the Bill’s language, ensuring that there are no interpretive uncertainties that could arise during its application. By addressing potential issues in the drafting, the amendments help to streamline the implementation process and reduce the risk of legal challenges or confusion in future interpretations of the law.

Taken together, the amendments—particularly amendments 191 and 192—help to ensure that there is no legal disruption when the provisions in part 5 of the Bill come into effect. That is an essential part of the legislative process, as it guarantees that previous actions remain valid and that transition to a new regulatory framework is smooth. In addition, the minor drafting changes provided by amendments 197 and 200 contribute to legal clarity, ensuring that the Bill’s language is precise and consistent, which will help to avoid any future complications in the application of the law.

Although these changes are reasonable and sensible, in the light of the Bill’s policy objectives, it is worth noting that they should ideally have been included at the time of the Bill’s introduction. The legal continuity ensured by amendments 191 and 192, as well as the technical refinements in amendments 197 and 200, could have been addressed earlier in the drafting process, to ensure that the Bill was as comprehensive and clear as possible from the outset. None the less, these changes at this stage still serve to enhance the legal robustness and practical application of the Bill, which will ultimately contribute to more effective enforcement and smoother implementation.

[Justin Madders]

I think both Opposition Members who spoke were supportive of the amendments, although they raised legitimate questions about why they were necessary. As the shadow Minister pointed out, we had an ambitious timetable—a manifesto commitment—to issue the Bill within 100 days. Even when Bills are many years in gestation, there are often amendments in Committee to clarify issues, and to ensure that the Bill does what it says on the tin and is legally coherent. These amendments are an example of that process. I am sure Members appreciate how important it is that the amendments are passed, so that we can ensure that everything carries on and is as effective as possible.

Amendment 191 agreed to.

Amendment made: 192, in schedule 7, page 146, line 24, after “by” insert “or in relation to”.—(Justin Madders.)

See the explanatory statement for amendment 191.

[Justin Madders]

I beg to move amendment 193, schedule 7, page 147, line 2, at end insert—

“( ) an officer acting for the purposes of Part 2A of the Employment Tribunals Act 1996;”

The effect of this amendment is that the transitional provision in paragraph 6 of Schedule 7 to the Bill would apply in relation to officers acting for the purposes of Part 2A of the Employment Tribunals Act 1996 (which relates to the enforcement of employment tribunal awards). The functions of such officers are being transferred to the Secretary of State by the Bill.

[The Chair]

With this it will be convenient to discuss Government amendments 194 and 195.

[Justin Madders]

Government amendment 193 makes transitional provision in relation to the transfer of functions of officers acting for the purposes of part 2A of the Employment Tribunals Act 1996 to the Secretary of State. That transitional provision will ensure that anything done by those officers acting for the purposes of part 2A of that Act, relating to enforcement of financial awards by employment tribunals, will continue to have effect. As such, the amendment allows for the continuity of enforcing employment rights once the Bill has passed.

Amendment 194 facilitates a minor drafting change as a consequence of Government amendment 195. Amendment 195 ensures that officers of the Gangmasters and Labour Abuse Authority, acting under any enactment other than the Gangmasters (Licensing) Act 2004, are within the scope of schedule 7. That ensures that things done by them before commencement of the Bill continue to have effect after commencement. I am sure hon. Members will appreciate that the effect of the amendments is solely to ensure that the legislation is clear and unambiguous and that any activity will continue on that basis.

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[Sir Ashley Fox]

Amendment 193 addresses the need for a seamless transition in the enforcement of employment tribunal awards. It specifically ensures that the transitional provision in paragraph 6 of schedule 7 to the Bill will apply to officers acting under part 2A of the 1996 Act, which governs the enforcement of employment tribunal awards. This is an important step as the enforcement of the tribunal awards will now fall under the responsibility of the Secretary of State, as stipulated in the Bill. By making the provision, the amendment ensures that the functions previously handled by officers enforcing tribunal awards will continue smoothly during the transition, even as the legal authority for enforcement shifts.

The inclusion of the amendment is crucial for legal continuity. It guarantees that actions taken by officers acting under the 1996 Act will still have legal effect even as their functions are transferred to the Secretary of State and the fair work agency. The amendment essentially ensures that any ongoing enforcement activities related to employment tribunal awards remain valid, preventing legal confusion or disruption during the reorganisation. It also ensures that the change in responsibility from individual enforcement officers to the Secretary of State does not cause any delay or interruption in enforcement actions. This will help to maintain confidence in the process, both for workers seeking to enforce their tribunal awards and businesses affected by these decisions.

[Justin Madders]

Opposition Members raise the same point as before about why we have had to introduce this amendment now. I refer the shadow Minister to my previous comments on that matter; no doubt I may do so again.

Both Opposition Members have rightly raised the concern about ensuring continuity when the body is instigated. Clearly, what we would expect and hope is that the day-to-day operations of enforcement officers on the ground are not impinged or affected by the creation of the agency. The Bill and a number of amendments are about ensuring that their functions continue smoothly.

Amendment 193 agreed to.

Amendments made: 194, in schedule 7, page 147, leave out line 6.

See the explanatory statement for amendment 195.

Amendment 195, in schedule 7, page 147, line 11, at end insert—

“( ) an officer of the Gangmasters and Labour Abuse Authority acting for the purposes of any other enactment.”—(Justin Madders.)

This amendment and amendment 194 make a minor drafting change.

[Justin Madders]

I beg to move amendment 196, in schedule 7, page 147, line 11, at end insert—

“(4A) Sub-paragraphs (1) to (3) are subject to the remaining provisions of this Schedule (and see also section 114, which confers power to make transitional or saving provision).”

This amendment makes it clear that the general provision in paragraph 6 of Schedule 7 is subject to any more specific provision in that Schedule.

[The Chair]

With this it will be convenient to discuss Government amendments 198 and 199.

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[Justin Madders]

Amendment 196 will ensure that there is a smooth transition in the frameworks. Amendment 198 is a transitional provision ensuring that anything done by a labour abuse prevention officer before the abolition of the GLAA continues to have effect as if done under the fair work agency. Amendment 199 is another transitional provision for warrants that have been granted under the Gangmasters (Licensing) Act 2004, but not yet executed. It allows those warrants to have the same effect as before. It is a continuation of the amendments we have debated this morning, ensuring that enforcement officers have continuity when delivering their functions.

[Greg Smith]

Amendment 196 makes it clear that the general provision in paragraph 6 of schedule 7 is subject to any more specific provision in that schedule. Amendment 198 makes transitional provision to ensure that things done by or in relation to labour abuse prevention officers before the abolition of the Gangmasters and Labour Abuse Authority continue to have effect as if done by or in relation to enforcement officers granted the equivalent powers under section 114B of the Police and Criminal Evidence Act 1984.

Amendment 199 makes transitional provision in relation to warrants under section 17 of the Gangmasters (Licensing) Act, which is being re-enacted for England, Wales and Scotland, with some changes, through clause 83. In particular, proposed new paragraph 7C of schedule 7 of the Bill provides that, where a warrant issued under section 17 of the 2004 Act has not yet been executed, the warrant is treated as if issued under clause 83, but any changes introduced by the Bill that would not have applied if the warrant had been executed under section 17 —in particular the additional requirements in part 3 of new schedule 1—are disapplied.

On the face of it, these are sensible amendments to make sure that nothing falls through the cracks as enforcement functions transfer to the fair work agency. A number of Government amendments of this nature have been considered by the Committee. This set of amendments therefore leaves me slightly nervous, not about the intention, but about whether anything else has been missed. I would appreciate the Minister’s reassurance on that point.

[Sir Ashley Fox]

Amendment 196 seeks to clarify the applicability of general and specific provisions and the relationship between the general provision outlined in paragraph 6 of schedule 7 and any more specific provision within that schedule. The amendment ensures that, in the event of a conflict or overlap between general and specific provisions, the more detailed or specific provisions will take precedence. This is an important measure for maintaining legal clarity and consistency in the application of the Bill. By prioritising specific provisions where applicable, the amendment prevents any unintended gaps or inconsistencies in the legal framework, ensuring that enforcement activities and related actions are governed by the most precise and relevant rules.

Amendment 198 introduces a transitional provision designed to ensure that actions taken by or in relation to labour abuse prevention officers prior to the abolition of the Gangmasters and Labour Abuse Authority will continue to be recognised as valid. Specifically, it ensures that any activities, decisions or functions performed by those officers before the GLAA’s dissolution will have the same legal effect as if they had been carried out by or in relation to enforcement officers who have been granted equivalent powers under section 114B of the Police and Criminal Evidence Act 1984. This is critical because it provides a seamless transition as enforcement responsibilities are transferred, making certain that actions taken by the GLAA’s officers before the abolition of the agency are not rendered void or ineffective.

The amendment is vital for legal continuity. It guarantees that there will be no disruption in enforcement activities during the transition period. Officers who previously worked under the authority of the GLAA, particularly those involved in tackling labour abuse, will carry out their roles without interruption, as their actions will be treated as if undertaken by enforcement officers with the equivalent legal powers. The measure strengthens the overall framework for worker protection and labour abuse prevention, ensuring that the enforcement of relevant laws continues smoothly as the responsibility shifts to new authorities.

Amendment 199 focuses on the transitional provision for warrants issued under section 17 of the 2004 Act, which is being re-enacted in a revised form as clause 83 of the Bill. The amendment introduces new paragraph 7C, which addresses the scenario where a warrant issued under section 17 has not yet been executed at the time of the change. In such cases, the warrant will be treated as if it were issued under the new provisions in clause 83, but with a critical distinction. Any changes introduced by the Bill that would not have applied under section 17, such as the additional requirements in part three of new schedule 1, will be disapplied.

The purpose of the amendment is to ensure that any ongoing enforcement actions involving warrants issued under the old regime are not hindered or invalidated by the transition to the new framework. By allowing the warrants to be treated as though they were issued under the new clause, the amendment facilitates a smoother enforcement process and reduces the risk of legal challenges or procedural delays. This is an important safeguard for the enforcement of labour laws and ensures that the power to execute warrants continues without disruption, regardless of the legislative changes.

[Justin Madders]

I sense that the Opposition Members are supportive of the amendments. The shadow Minister challenged me on whether there will be any more minor or consequential amendments. I cannot give him an absolute guarantee on that; it is always an iterative process when Bills are issued; we take notice of what stakeholders say in their feedback, as well as other Government Departments. Of course, it is important that we get these things done before the Bill becomes law, by which time it is too late. I hope the Committee is reassured that there is an ongoing process to ensure that there is certainty and coherence in the legislation as we prepare for Report.

Amendment 196 agreed to.

Amendments made: 197, in schedule 7, page 147, line 25, after “repeal” insert “of that provision”.

This amendment makes a minor drafting change.

Amendment 198, in schedule 7, page 147, line 27, at end insert—

“Labour abuse prevention officers

7A (1) Anything which—

(a) was done by or in relation to a labour abuse prevention officer in, or in connection with, the exercise of a function conferred on the officer by virtue of section 114B of the Police and Criminal Evidence Act 1984 (“PACE”), and

(b) is in effect immediately before the day on which paragraph 67 of Schedule 6 comes into force (“the relevant day”),

has effect, on and after that day, as if done by or in relation to a relevant enforcement officer.

(2) Anything which—

(a) relates to a function conferred on a labour abuse prevention officer by virtue of section 114B of PACE, and

(b) immediately before the relevant day, is in the process of being done by or in relation to such an officer,

may be continued, on and after that day, by or in relation to a relevant enforcement officer.

(3) In this paragraph—

“labour abuse prevention officer” has the meaning given by section 114B of PACE (as that section had effect immediately before the relevant day);

“relevant enforcement officer” , in relation to a function conferred by virtue of section 114B of PACE, means an enforcement officer on whom that function is conferred by virtue of that section (as it has effect on and after the relevant day).”

This amendment makes transitional provision to ensure that things done by or in relation to labour abuse prevention officers before the abolition of the Gangmasters and Labour Abuse Authority continue to have effect as if done by or in relation to enforcement officers granted the equivalent powers under the Police and Criminal Evidence Act 1984 by virtue of section 114B of that Act.

Amendment 199, in schedule 7, page 147, line 27, at end insert—

“Warrants

7B (1) This paragraph applies to an application for a warrant under section 17 of the Gangmasters (Licensing) Act 2004 (“the 2004 Act”) which—

(a) is made in England and Wales or Scotland before the day on which paragraph 42 of Schedule 6 comes into force, and

(b) is not determined or withdrawn before that day.

(2) The application is to be treated, on and after that day, as an application made by an enforcement officer for a warrant under section 83 of this Act.

7C (1) This paragraph applies to a warrant under section 17 of the 2004 Act which—

(a) is issued under that section before the day on which paragraph 42 of Schedule 6 comes into force, and

(b) is not executed before that day.

(2) The warrant is to be treated for the purposes of section 83 of this Act as if it had been issued under that section.

(3) That section applies in relation to the warrant as if—

(a) in subsection (4)(a) , after “bring” there were inserted “any persons or”, and

(b) after subsection (4) there were inserted—

“(4A)On leaving any premises which an enforcement officer is authorised to enter by a warrant under this section, the officer must, if the premises are unoccupied or the occupier is temporarily absent, leave the premises as effectively secured against trespassers as the officer found them.”

(4) Section (Warrants) and Schedule (Warrants under Part 5: further provision) do not apply in relation to the warrant.”

This amendment makes transitional provision in relation to warrants under section 17 of the Gangmasters (Licensing) Act 2004, which is being re-enacted for England and Wales and Scotland (with some changes) as clause 83. In particular, new paragraph 7C provides that, where a warrant issued under section 17 has not yet been executed, the warrant is treated as if issued under clause 83, but any changes introduced by the Bill which would not have applied if the warrant had been executed under section 17 (in particular, the additional requirements in Part 3 of NS1) are disapplied.

Amendment 200, in schedule 7, page 147, line 40, leave out “that person” and insert “the enforcing authority”.—(Justin Madders.)

This amendment makes a minor drafting change.

[Justin Madders]

I beg to move amendment 201, in schedule 7, page 148, line 16, at end insert—

“8A “(1) This paragraph applies to information which—

(a) was obtained in the course of—

(i) exercising the powers conferred by section 9 of the Employment Agencies Act 1973 (“the 1973 Act”), or

(ii) exercising powers by virtue of section 26(1) of the Immigration Act 2016, and

(b) immediately before the coming into force of paragraph 2 of Schedule 6, is held by an officer acting for the purposes of the 1973 Act.

(2) On the coming into force of that paragraph, information to which this paragraph applies vests in the Secretary of State.”

See the explanatory statement for Amendment 202.

[The Chair]

With this it will be convenient to consider Government amendment 202.

[Justin Madders]

Existing enforcement bodies will have obtained information prior to the creation of the fair work agency. This information may be needed by the Secretary of State once part 5 of the Bill comes into force. Schedule 7 therefore provides for transitional and saving provisions to enable that. Amendments 201 and 202 provide that information obtained by officers acting under existing legislation prior to the coming into force of part 5 of the Bill, and which is held by the Secretary of State, can be used or disclosed in accordance with clause 98.

[Greg Smith]

Amendments 201 and 202 provide that information that was obtained before the coming into force of part 5 of the Bill by officers acting under existing legislation and is held by the Secretary of State can be used or disclosed by the Secretary of State in accordance with clause 98. These are sensible amendments on the face of it, to make sure nothing falls through the cracks as the enforcement functions transfer to the fair work agency—very similar to the previous set of amendments that we have just considered. It is part of a continuing theme of amendments of this nature that we as a Committee are being asked to consider.

I heard the Minister’s response to the previous debate about this being an iterative process and about the need to listen and best understand concerns or practical points raised by those being asked to prepare for and ultimately do this work. It remains a legitimate point of nervousness that there will be more such cracks that need repairing as part of this Bill. Accepting the Minister’s good faith in his explanation on the previous set of amendments, I put on record that we remain a little nervous that more cracks will need that legislative repair as the Bill goes forward.

We urge the Government to get on at pace with the conversations necessary to ensure that they have best understood where any further edits may be required—preferably before Report stage in the House of Commons, but if it does have to bleed into the time when the Bill goes to the other place, so be it. However, I think it would a far more satisfactory position if we were able to consider at our end of the building any further amendments that may be required before we ask their lordships to consider the Bill.

--- Later in debate ---

[Sir Ashley Fox]

My hon. Friend makes a valuable point. The reason that the Bill is in such poor condition is that the Labour party was under a political obligation to its trade union friends to bring it forward within 100 days. Had it waited a month or two, we would not have needed such detailed scrutiny and so many Government amendments. Occasionally one hears a tut or a groan from Government Members as we try to scrutinise the Bill, but really it is entirely the Government’s fault for bringing forward such a poorly drafted piece of legislation.

As I was saying, without amendments 201 and 202, confusion or legal obstacles could prevent the use of such information, creating gaps in the enforcement process. By making it clear that the Secretary of State has the authority to use and disclose such information under clause 98, the amendments ensure that the enforcement process remains uninterrupted, effective and legally coherent.

Overall, the amendments are sensible and necessary to guarantee that nothing falls through the cracks as the responsibilities for enforcing labour laws transition from existing structures to the fair work agency. As the Bill centralises enforcement functions, it is essential that any information collected under the old system remains accessible and usable by the new agency. That is particularly important given the potential impact on ongoing investigations, compliance checks and prosecutions. By ensuring that previously collected information can still be used effectively, the amendments will help to prevent disruptions or delays in enforcement, safeguarding both workers and businesses.

It is worth noting that the transition to a new enforcement structure can often be fraught with challenges. The Bill will alter not only the bodies responsible for enforcement, but the way in which information and data are managed. The amendments will help address the practical aspects of the transition, ensuring that the fair work agency has the resources and information it needs to continue performing its duties effectively. In doing so, they will create a smoother handover of powers and responsibilities from the previous enforcement regime to the new framework.

Throughout the Committee’s proceedings, we have debated many Government amendments of a similar nature. Amendments 201 and 202 are necessary to fine-tune the Bill and ensure that all aspects of the transition are fully addressed, but the sheer volume of amendments at this stage leaves me with some concern, as it suggests that the Bill may not have fully accounted for all the transitional issues at the outset, and there may still be elements that have not been addressed. Given the complexity of centralising such a significant portion of the enforcement process, it is natural to be cautious about whether any areas may have been overlooked. While these amendments are clearly intended to provide clarity and ensure continuity, the volume of amendments suggests that there may still be unanswered questions or unforeseen gaps in the transition process, which leaves me somewhat nervous that issues may have been missed in the initial drafting of the Bill. We have certainly seen that happen often enough thus far. It is crucial that all challenges or concerns relating to the transfer of enforcement powers are adequately addressed before the Bill passes. As such, I believe it is important to consider whether there are any outstanding issues that might affect the long-term success of the transition.

Given the number of amendments and the complexity of the transition, I would appreciate the Minister’s reassurance that there is a comprehensive understanding of the full scope of the changes and that no essential elements have been left unaddressed. Are the Government confident that all necessary steps have been taken to ensure a smooth and effective transition? In particular, can the Minister assure us that the fair work agency will be fully equipped to handle its new responsibilities, including that it will be able to utilise critical information from the prior enforcement system without any disruptions? I would also like to hear about the monitoring processes that will be in place to oversee the transition period and ensure that any unforeseen issues are quickly addressed, which is vital for maintaining business confidence and worker protections throughout the period of change.

While the amendments are crucial for ensuring that enforcement activities continue smoothly during the transition, they should ideally have been made earlier in the process to avoid the need for these later clarifications. Having a more comprehensive and cohesive framework in place at the outset would have reduced uncertainty and provided greater assurance to all parties involved. Never-theless, the amendments go a long way to addressing the issues that could arise during the handover of enforcement responsibilities, and ensuring that the transition to the fair work agency will be as smooth and effective as possible.

[Justin Madders]

The shadow Minister asked whether it is our intention to have the Bill shipshape before we send it to the other place. That is absolutely our intention, and the amendments that have been debated today are part of that.

The criticism from the hon. Member for Bridgwater about the number of Government amendments has been noted. It was important that we kept to our manifesto commitment to issue the Bill within 100 days, but I have to say that when I was an Opposition Member I do not think I ever sat on a Bill Committee where the Government did not introduce their own amendments. If he is able to come up with some examples, I would be delighted to hear from him. I am afraid he will probably have to sit on a few more Bill Committees, and he will see that that is perfectly normal in the way these things work. After a Bill is published, it has more eyes on it; other stakeholders, Government Departments and agencies get to see it, and they offer views and feedback. It is right that we take account of those views and make what are often technical and minor amendments to make sure that the Bill has the intended legal effect.

The hon. Member asked whether any other essential elements have been omitted. The amendments we are debating are about ensuring that the fair work agency is functioning and effective from Royal Assent. I cannot give him a guarantee that there will not be other things that come out, but we have been doing a considerable amount of work, as can be seen by the number of amendments, to make sure that the Bill will be fully operational and that there will be no effect on the day-to-day running of the work of the enforcement officers and the creation of the fair work agency.

Amendment 201 agreed to.

Amendment made: 202, in schedule 7, page 148, line 19, leave out from “to” to end of line 20 and insert “—

(a) any information which the Secretary of State obtains by virtue of paragraph 8A;

(b) any information which, immediately before the coming into force of paragraph 20 of Schedule 6, the Secretary of State holds by virtue of section 15(2) of the National Minimum Wage Act 1998;

(c) any information which, immediately before the coming into force of paragraph 21 of that Schedule, the Secretary of State holds by virtue of section 16(2) of that Act;

(d) any information which the Secretary of State obtains by virtue of a property transfer scheme under paragraph 2 of this Schedule.”—(Justin Madders.)

This amendment and Amendment 201 would provide that information which was obtained before the coming into force of Part 5 of the Bill by officers acting under existing legislation and is held by the Secretary of State can be used or disclosed by the Secretary of State in accordance with clause 98.

[Justin Madders]

I beg to move amendment 203, in schedule 7, page 148, line 20, at end insert—

“9A The repeal of section 9 of the Employment Agencies Act 1973 (inspection) by paragraph 3 of Schedule 6 does not prevent the use in evidence against a person, in criminal proceedings taking place on or after the day on which that repeal comes into force, of a statement made before that day by the person in compliance with a requirement under that section (subject to subsection (2B) of that section).”

Section 9(3) of the Employment Agencies Act 1973 provides that a statement made by a person in compliance with a requirement made under that section to provide information may be used in evidence in criminal proceedings against the person. This amendment enables such a statement to be used in criminal proceedings taking place after the repeal of section 9 by the Bill.

Schedule 7 sets out transitional and savings provisions ensuring a smooth changeover from the existing enforcement framework to the new provisions. That is important, as Members have debated at length already. Amendment 203 addresses the repeal of section 9 of the Employment Agencies Act 1973 and the evidentiary treatment of statements obtained under that provision. The amendment will ensure that such statements can continue to be used in criminal proceedings post repeal, subject to existing protections against self-incrimination under section 9(2B). This is a targeted, proportionate and necessary amendment, which safeguards the integrity of enforcement proceedings during a period of legislative transition. On that basis, I commend the amendment to the Committee.

[Greg Smith]

As the Minister outlined, Government amendment 203 relates to section 9 of the Employment Agencies Act 1973, which provides that a statement made by a person in compliance with a requirement under that section to provide information may be used in evidence in criminal proceedings against the person. The amendment enables such a statement to be used in criminal proceedings taking place after the repeal of section 9 by the Bill.

Similar to the previous two groups of amendments we have considered, this is a sensible amendment to make sure that nothing falls through the cracks as enforcement functions transfer to the fair work agency. It is all part of a continuing theme, and the points that I made in the previous debate apply as much to amendment 203 as they did to the previous amendments.

I understand what the Minister said about every Bill being subject, during its passage, to a number of technical amendments by Governments of all different political compositions. I gently it put back to him that this Bill seems to have had an extremely high number of technical Government amendments, and that all tracks back to the unnecessary speed with which it was presented to Parliament.

Government amendment 204 contains transitional provision to ensure that once the functions of the Gangmasters and Labour Abuse Authority under the Modern Slavery Act 2015—

--- Later in debate ---

[Sir Ashley Fox]

Government amendment 203 seeks to address an important transitional issue arising from the repeal of section 9 of the Employment Agencies Act 1973 by the Bill. Section 9 currently stipulates that a statement made by an individual in compliance with a requirement to provide information under that section may be used as evidence in criminal proceedings against them. The amendment ensures that any statements made under the provisions of section 9 prior to its repeal can still be used in criminal proceedings that occur after the repeal takes effect.

The amendment is a necessary adjustment to maintain the integrity of the legal process. It will ensure that evidence obtained while section 9 was in effect remains valid and admissible in criminal cases, even after the section’s formal removal from the statute. Without the amendment, there could be ambiguity and potential legal challenges regarding the admissibility of evidence, which could undermine ongoing enforcement efforts and hinder the administration of justice. By making this provision, the Government ensure that no gaps are created in the legal framework, preserving continuity and clarity in the application of the law.

As we transition enforcement functions to the fair work agency, such amendments are vital to ensure the process is as seamless as possible. The purpose of amendment 203, and others like it, is to safeguard that critical aspects of the previous legal framework remain intact, even as the functions are reassigned or modified under the Bill. The changeover to the fair work agency is a significant shift, and these amendments are an important step in maintaining enforcement consistency. Given the complexity of transferring powers and responsibilities between agencies, the amendments ensure that no legal actions or evidence will fall through the cracks during the transition. They will ensure that enforcement remains robust, and that any evidence gathered or actions taken before the changeover still hold legal weight under the new system.

Although the adjustments are sensible and necessary, the number of Government amendments made in Committee leaves me with some concern about whether every possible issue has been addressed. The amendments we have seen so far have been well intentioned and critical for ensuring legal continuity, but I would appreciate the Minister’s reassurance that nothing has been overlooked in this important process.

As we know, the task of realigning enforcement powers can be complex, and with numerous provisions being amended or repealed, the risk of something slipping through the cracks is a valid concern. Opposition Members are asking for clarity that even with these detailed and helpful amendments, the transition to the fair work agency will not inadvertently create gaps or unintended consequences. I urge the Minister to provide additional assurances that all potential legal or procedural pitfalls have been anticipated, and that the Government have taken every necessary step to guarantee that the work of enforcement officers and the legal process will continue without interruption. Although the amendments are certainly a step in the right direction, we must remain vigilant to ensure that the full scope of the transition is properly managed and that the system continues to protect the rights of workers effectively.

[Justin Madders]

I believe I have already addressed the concerns raised by the hon. Member for Bridgwater on several occasions this morning, although I take his points.

Amendment 203 agreed to.

[Justin Madders]

I beg to move amendment 204, in schedule 7, page 148, line 28, at end insert—

“10A (1) Where—

(a) a slavery and trafficking prevention order requires a person to notify the Gangmasters and Labour Abuse Authority in accordance with section 19 of the Modern Slavery Act 2015 (“the 2015 Act”), and

(b) immediately before the day on which paragraph 53 of Schedule 6 comes into force, that requirement has not been complied with,

that requirement has effect, on and after that day, as a requirement to notify the Secretary of State.

(2) On and after the coming into force of paragraph 54 of Schedule 6, the reference in section 20(2)(g) of the 2015 Act (as amended by that paragraph) to a slavery and trafficking prevention order made on an application under section 15 of that Act by the Secretary of State includes a reference to such an order made on an application under that section by the Gangmasters and Labour Abuse Authority.

(3) In this paragraph “slavery and trafficking prevention order” has the same meaning as in the 2015 Act.

10B (1) Where—

(a) a slavery and trafficking risk order requires a person to notify the Gangmasters and Labour Abuse Authority in accordance with section 26 of the Modern Slavery Act 2015 (“the 2015 Act”), and

(b) immediately before the day on which paragraph 56 of Schedule 6 comes into force, that requirement has not been complied with,

that requirement has effect, on and after that day, as a requirement to notify the Secretary of State.

(2) On and after the coming into force of paragraph 57 of Schedule 6, the reference in section 27(2)(g) of the 2015 Act (as amended by that paragraph) to a slavery and trafficking risk order made on an application under section 23 of that Act by the Secretary of State includes a reference to such an order made on an application under that section by the Gangmasters and Labour Abuse Authority.

(3) In this paragraph “slavery and trafficking risk order” has the same meaning as in the 2015 Act.”

This amendment contains transitional provision to ensure that, once the functions of the Gangmasters and Labour Abuse Authority under the Modern Slavery Act 2015 have been transferred to the Secretary of State, that Act continues to operate as intended.

The amendment is essential to ensure the seamless and effective operation of the Modern Slavery Act 2015 during the transition of functions from the Gangmasters and Labour Abuse Authority to the Secretary of State. At its core, it is about continuity and clarity. Slavery and trafficking prevention and risk orders are critical tools in the fight against modern slavery. They impose important requirements on individuals for the purpose of protecting people from being victims of modern slavery, including requirements to notify enforcement authorities, and those obligations must remain enforceable.

Without the amendment, there is a clear risk that existing legal obligations could become unclear, creating loopholes for offenders to exploit. The amendment ensures that notification requirements transfer seamlessly to the Secretary of State, safeguarding our ability to hold individuals accountable and protect victims of exploitation. It also ensures that where an application is made to vary, renew or discharge a slavery and trafficking order, the courts can treat orders originally made by the GLAA as if they had been made by the Secretary of State. That provides legal certainty for courts, enforcement agencies and affected individuals alike.

This is a technical but vital amendment that protects the integrity of the legal framework and ensures continuity.

[Greg Smith]

Apologies for my premature comments on amendment 204, Mr Mundell; I accidently believed it had been grouped with the previous amendment.

Amendment 204 contains transitional provision to ensure that, once the functions of the Gangmasters and Labour Abuse Authority under the Modern Slavery Act 2015 have been transferred to the Secretary of State, that Act continues to operate as intended. I would be grateful for the Minister’s assessment of how the creation of the fair work agency will allow for more effective identification and prevention of modern slavery offences. As we debate the amendment, it is important that we are fully appraised of the detail and the assessment that the Minister, the wider Department for Business and Trade and the Government have made. This is an important matter that all Committee members, and Members of the wider House of Commons, take incredibly seriously, and I urge the Minister to do so.

Employment Rights Bill (Twentieth sitting)

Justin Madders Excerpts

Committee stage
Tuesday 14th January 2025 Public Bill Committees

[Sir Ashley Fox (Bridgwater) (Con)]

It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Ms Vaz. Government amendment 204 is crucial to ensuring that functions currently performed by the Gangmasters and Labour Abuse Authority under the Modern Slavery Act 2015 continue seamlessly after the powers are transferred to the Secretary of State. As part of the broader restructuring outlined in the Bill, those functions will be absorbed into the newly established fair work agency, which will take on the role of overseeing labour rights and enforcement activities.

It is essential that the transfer of these powers does not lead to any gaps in the enforcement of laws relating to modern slavery, human trafficking and labour exploitation. The GLAA has played a pivotal role in investigating and combating labour abuse, particularly in high-risk sectors such as agriculture, horticulture and construction. By ensuring the smooth continuation of these functions under the fair work agency, we are reinforcing our commitment to protecting vulnerable workers and ensuring that modern slavery offences are actively pursued.

Moreover, the amendment will guarantee that the dedicated focus on tackling labour exploitation is preserved even as responsibilities shift. The fair work agency will now serve as the central body for enforcing these laws, and it is critical that its operations are fully equipped to carry forward the work done by the Gangmasters and Labour Abuse Authority, particularly in investigating and preventing cases of modern slavery.

I would like to take this opportunity to ask the Minister for a more detailed assessment of how the creation of the fair work agency will enhance our ability to identify and prevent modern slavery offences. Given the increasing complexity of labour exploitation and the fact that modern slavery offences often take place in hidden, clandestine environments, the need for a robust, dedicated enforcement body is more pressing than ever.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Business and Trade (Justin Madders)]

It is a pleasure to see you in the Chair, Ms Vaz, and I wish you a happy new year too. I refer Members to my entry in the Register of Members’ Financial Interests.

I will not detain the Committee long, as I think the support from Opposition Members for the amendment is clear. Before lunch, the hon. Member for Mid Buckinghamshire asked how this measure will make things more effective. I refer him to the evidence given by a number of stakeholders, including the Director of Labour Market Enforcement, Margaret Beels, who explained that the current fragmented system makes it difficult to ensure that intelligence is shared correctly. The hon. Member for Bridgwater used the word “clandestine”. A lot of the people engaged in labour market abuses are operating under the radar, and therefore anything we can do to ensure that intelligence is shared and resources are combined has to be a good thing, so that these abuses are stamped out.

Amendment 204 agreed to.

Question proposed, That the schedule, as amended, be the Seventh schedule to the Bill.

[Justin Madders]

I will not detain the Committee long, as we have debated schedule 7 and the amendments to it at length.

Part 5 of the Bill lays the groundwork for the creation of the fair work agency. As a result, it will abolish the Gangmasters and Labour Abuse Authority and the Director of Labour Market Enforcement. Schedule 7 sets out transitional and savings provisions that we need in place to set up the new body. Part 1 of schedule 7 gives powers to the Secretary of State to make transfer schemes to move staff, property, rights and liabilities of the GLAA and the DLME to the Secretary of State, and part 2 provides for other necessary transitional provisions, such as to ensure that smooth sharing of information can continue and to retain provisions that devolved legislation relies on.

[Greg Smith (Mid Buckinghamshire) (Con)]

It is a pleasure to see you in the Chair, Ms Vaz. I wish you a happy new year, too. As the Minister said, we have debated schedule 7 in some depth through the various amendments to it, so I have nothing further to add.

Question put and agreed to.

Schedule 7, as amended, accordingly agreed to.

Clause 111

Meaning of “non-compliance with relevant labour market legislation”

Question proposed, That the clause stand part of the Bill.

[The Chair]

With this it will be convenient to discuss clause 112 stand part.

[Justin Madders]

These clauses set out a single set of investigatory and enforcement powers that inspectors will have to carry out their job of enforcing the list of labour market legislation in part 1 of schedule 4.

Clause 111 defines what constitutes non-compliance with relevant labour market legislation. It provides a clear definition of non-compliance, ensuring consistency and transparency in enforcement actions. It therefore underpins the enforcement purposes of the Bill.

Clause 112 defines the key terms used throughout part 5 of the Bill relating to the governance of the fair work agency, including the concepts of the advisory board, the enforcement function and the role of an enforcement officer under clauses 75, 73 and 72, respectively. Other key terms defined by the clause include labour market enforcement undertakings and orders, “non-compliance with relevant labour market legislation” and “labour market offence”. It does not introduce any additional policy, but it is a necessary and normal part of the Bill to ensure that it is functional.

[Greg Smith]

The clauses give some rare clarity to the Bill. Clause 112, in particular, goes into significant detail, which His Majesty’s loyal Opposition of course welcome.

Question put and agreed to.

Clause 111 accordingly ordered to stand part of the Bill.

Clause 112

Interpretation: general

Amendment made: 205, in clause 112, page 102, line 7, at end insert—

“‘GCHQ’ has the same meaning as in the Intelligence Services Act 1994;

‘intelligence service’ means—

(a) the Security Service;

(b) the Secret Intelligence Service;

(c) GCHQ;”.—(Justin Madders.)

This amendment defines “GCHQ” and “intelligence service” for the purposes of Part 5 of the Bill.

Clause 112, as amended, ordered to stand part of the Bill.

New Clause 5

Statutory sick pay in Northern Ireland: removal of waiting period

“(1) Part 11 of the Social Security Contributions and Benefits (Northern Ireland) Act 1992 (statutory sick pay) is amended as follows.

(2) In section 147(1) (employer’s liability), for ‘sections 148 to 150’ substitute ‘sections 149 and 150’.

(3) In section 148 (period of incapacity for work)—

(a) omit subsection (1);

(b) in subsection (2), for the words from ‘any’ to ‘is’ substitute ‘a period of one day which is, or of two or more consecutive days each of which is,’.

(4) In section 149(1) (period of entitlement), for ‘second’ substitute ‘first’.

(5) In section 150(1) (qualifying days), for ‘third’ substitute ‘second’.

(6) In section 151 (limitations on entitlement), omit subsection (1).

(7) In section 152(2) (notification of incapacity for work), omit paragraph (b) (and the ‘or’ at the end of paragraph (a)).”—(Justin Madders.)

This new clause makes the same provision for Northern Ireland as is made by clause 8 of the Bill for Great Britain. It is intended that this new clause and NC6 be inserted after clause 9.

Brought up, read the First and Second time, and added to the Bill.

New Clause 6

Statutory sick pay in Northern Ireland: lower earnings limit etc

“(1) Part 11 of the Social Security Contributions and Benefits (Northern Ireland) Act 1992 (statutory sick pay) is amended as follows.

(2) In section 153 (rate of payment)—

(a) for subsection (1) substitute—

‘(1) The weekly rate of statutory sick pay that an employer must pay to an employee is the lower of—

(a) £116.75, and

(b) the prescribed percentage of the employee’s normal weekly earnings.’;

(b) in subsection (2)—

(i) omit the ‘and’ at the end of paragraph (a);

(ii) after paragraph (a) insert—

‘(aa) prescribe a percentage, or percentages, for the purposes of subsection (1)(b);’.

(3) In Schedule 11 (circumstances in which periods of entitlement to statutory sick pay do not arise), in paragraph 2, omit paragraph (c) (lower earnings limit).”—(Justin Madders.)

This new clause makes the same provision for Northern Ireland as is made by clause 9 of the Bill for Great Britain.

Brought up, read the First and Second time, and added to the Bill.

New Clause 7

Employment outside Great Britain

“In section 285 of the Trade Union and Labour Relations (Consolidation) Act 1992 (employment outside Great Britain)—

(a) in subsection (1), before ‘works’ insert ‘ordinarily’;

(b) in subsection (1A), before ‘works’ insert ‘ordinarily’.” —(Justin Madders.)

This new clause would correct omissions of the word “ordinarily” in provisions of section 285 of the Trade Union and Labour Relations (Consolidation) Act 1992.

Brought up, and read the First time.

[Justin Madders]

I beg to move, That the clause be read a Second time.

[The Chair]

With this it will be convenient to discuss Government amendment 110.

[Justin Madders]

New clause 7 and amendment 110 have been tabled to fix an apparent drafting error in the Trade Union and Labour Relations (Consolidation) Act 1992. The Committee has already debated a Government amendment to section 285(1B) of that Act, which will close a loophole in the requirement to notify the UK Government of collective redundancies for foreign-flagged ships.

New clause 7 and amendment 110 concern subsections (1) and (1A) of the same section. Section 285(1) currently disapplies the collective redundancy notification requirements and certain other requirements for employees who are “working”—as opposed to “ordinarily working”—outside Great Britain, and section 285(1A) disapplies the requirements of sections 145A to 151 of the 1992 Act,

“where under his contract personally to do work or perform services a worker who is not an employee works outside Great Britain.”

This, unfortunately, could have the effect of excluding employees who spend any of their working time outside the UK from the requirements of the legislation. I apologise, as that appears to have been a drafting oversight.

New clause 7 will introduce the word “ordinarily” ahead of the words “works outside Great Britain”, which will ensure that employees who spend some of their working time outside the UK or its territorial workers will not be excluded from the legislation. I hope that Members can see that this is an important and necessary change.

[Greg Smith]

New clause 7, as the Minister outlined, will correct omissions of the word “ordinarily” in provisions of section 285 of the Trade Union and Labour Relations (Consolidation) Act 1992. Amendment 110 would bring new clause 7 into force two months after Royal Assent. The only real question that follows that is: could the Minister clarify why it is necessary to commence this measure earlier than the usual three months?

[Justin Madders]

The shadow Minister has been eagle-eyed and spotted the difference there. I am not aware of whether there is any specific reason, other than that, although this measure is quite important in its scope, it will not actually have too much of a practical day-to-day effect. As always, I will write to him if there is any more information that I can give him about the difference.

Question put and agreed to.

New clause 7 accordingly read a Second time, and added to the Bill.

New Clause 8

Power to enter dwelling subject to warrant

“(1) An enforcement officer may not by virtue of section 79 enter any dwelling unless a justice has issued a warrant authorising the officer to enter the dwelling.

(2) A justice may issue a warrant under this section only if, on an application by the officer, the justice is satisfied—

(a) that the officer has reasonable grounds to believe that—

(i) there are documents in the dwelling which for any enforcement purpose the officer wishes to inspect, examine or seize, or

(ii) there is computer or other equipment in the dwelling to which the officer wishes to have access for any enforcement purpose, and

(b) that any of the conditions in subsection (3) is satisfied.

(3) The conditions are—

(a) that it is not practicable to communicate with any person entitled to grant entry to the dwelling;

(b) that it is not practicable to communicate with any person entitled to grant access to the documents or equipment;

(c) that entry to the dwelling is unlikely to be granted unless a warrant is produced;

(d) that the purpose of entry may be frustrated or seriously prejudiced unless an enforcement officer arriving at the dwelling can secure immediate entry to it.

(4) In this section—

‘enforcement purpose’ has the same meaning as in section 79;

‘justice’ means—

(a) in relation to England and Wales, a justice of the peace;

(b) in relation to Scotland, a sheriff or summary sheriff;

(c) in relation to Northern Ireland, a lay magistrate.

(5) For further provision about warrants under this section, see section (Warrants) and Schedule (Warrants under Part 5: further provision).”—(Justin Madders.)

This new clause provides that an enforcement officer may not exercise the power conferred by clause 79 to enter premises that are a dwelling without first obtaining a warrant.

Brought up, read the First and Second time, and added to the Bill.

New Clause 9

Warrants

“(1) A warrant under section (Power to enter dwelling subject to warrant) or 83 may be executed by any enforcement officer.

(2) A warrant under section (Power to enter dwelling subject to warrant) or 83 may authorise persons to accompany any enforcement officer who is executing it.

(3) A person authorised under subsection (2) to accompany an enforcement officer may exercise any power conferred by this Part which the officer may exercise as a result of the warrant.

(4) But the person may exercise such a power only in the company of, and under the supervision of, an enforcement officer.

(5) Schedule (Warrants under Part 5: further provision) contains further provision about—

(a) applications for warrants under section (Power to enter dwelling subject to warrant) or 83, and

(b) warrants issued under section (Power to enter dwelling subject to warrant) or 83.

(6) The entry of premises under a warrant issued under section (Power to enter dwelling subject to warrant) or 83 is unlawful unless it complies with the provisions of Part 3 of that Schedule (execution of warrants).”—(Justin Madders.)

This new clause makes further provision about warrants under Part 5. It enables warrants to authorise people to accompany the enforcement officer executing the warrant. It also provides that entry under a warrant is unlawful unless it complies with provisions of NS1 relating to the execution of warrants.

Brought up, read the First and Second time, and added to the Bill.

New Clause 10

Increase in time limits for making claims

“Schedule (Increase in time limits for making claims) makes amendments for the purpose of increasing time limits for making claims in employment tribunals in Great Britain (and, in certain cases, industrial tribunals in Northern Ireland) from three months to six months.”—(Justin Madders.)

This new clause would introduce NS2.

Brought up, read the First and Second time, and added to the Bill.

New Clause 11

Orders and regulations under Employment Rights Act 1996: procedure

“In section 236 of the Employment Rights Act 1996 (orders and regulations), after subsection (4) insert—

‘(4A) A statutory instrument containing an order or regulations under this Act to which subsection (3) applies may include an order or regulations under this Act to which subsection (3) would not otherwise apply.

(4B) In such a case, the statutory instrument is to be proceeded with as if all of the orders and regulations contained in it were orders or regulations to which subsection (3) applies.’”—(Justin Madders.)

This new clause, to be inserted into Part 6 of the Bill, would enable the combination of orders or regulations under the Employment Rights Act 1996 that would otherwise be subject to different Parliamentary procedures (or no Parliamentary procedure) in a statutory instrument subject to the affirmative procedure.

Brought up, read the First and Second time, and added to the Bill.

New Clause 48

Seafarers’ wages and working conditions

“Schedule (Seafarers’ wages and working conditions) amends the Seafarers’ Wages Act 2023.”—(Justin Madders.)

This new clause introduces the Schedule proposed to be inserted by NS3.

Brought up, and read the First time.

[Justin Madders]

I beg to move, That the clause be read a Second time.

[The Chair]

With this it will be convenient to discuss the following:

Government new clause 52—International agreements relating to maritime employment.

Government new schedule 3—Seafarers’ wages and working conditions.

Government amendments 206 to 209.

[Justin Madders]

This group concerns the mandatory seafarers’ charter and amendments to international maritime convention measures. New schedule 3, and consequential amendments new clause 48 and Government amendments 206 to 208, deliver on our commitment to introduce a legally binding seafarers’ charter. The actions of P&O Ferries in 2022, when it sacked almost 800 seafarers in order to replace them with agency workers on much worse terms and conditions, highlighted the lack of protections for those working on the frequent international services that keep our country moving.

We are expanding the scope of the Seafarers Wages Act 2023, which will become the Seafarers (Wages and Working Conditions) Act 2023. The Act currently makes payment of the national minimum wage equivalent for work in UK waters a condition of port access for international services that call at a UK port at least 120 times a year. It does that by requiring harbour authorities to request declarations from operators to confirm that they are paying the national minimum wage equivalent, or they will impose surcharges each time a vessel enters the port. Non-payment of surcharges will result in access to the port being refused.

The new schedule introduces provisions that, once the necessary regulations have been made, will require harbour authorities to also request safe working declarations and remuneration declarations from operators in scope. Operators will be required to confirm that they are meeting the requirements of those declarations, which will be set out in regulations. We will consult on the requirements and the services they will apply to in due course.

Safe working regulations can specify conditions relating to working patterns and rest requirements, including maximum periods of work and minimum periods of rest. They can also require operators to produce fatigue management plans, and make provision relating to safety training of seafarers. Remuneration regulations may specify requirements relating to the remuneration of seafarers, whether in UK waters or outside them. Where we are able to make agreements with other countries about pay on routes between us and them, this provision will allow us to enforce those agreements. Operators that provide false or misleading declarations, or act inconsistently with declarations, will be guilty of an offence under the Seafarers Wages Act. The Maritime and Coastguard Agency will be responsible for enforcing those offences, as it is for the existing provisions of the Act.

The new schedule represents a proportionate and necessary approach to ensuring that the seafarers who serve our country are not subject to dangerous or unfair working conditions. It will level the playing field by setting an appropriate minimum standard for seafarers, which will ensure that good employers are not undercut by those willing to exploit their workers.

I turn to new clause 52. The UK has a proud and long-standing reputation as a maritime nation, and is a leader on the global stage in matters of international maritime employment law. To maintain that position, it is crucial that we are able to keep pace with the international conventions that we have ratified and meet our future obligations. The new clause will fix a powers gap that was left following Brexit. It will give us the powers to make regulations under the negative procedure giving effect to the maritime labour convention and the work in fishing convention, and to make regulations giving effect to any other international agreements ratified in the UK relating to maritime employment. The first time that regulations are made in relation to a particular agreement, they will be subject to the affirmative procedure, and subsequent regulations relating to that agreement will be subject to the negative procedure.

The new clause allows for regulations to make the necessary provisions to give effect to the conventions in question. For example, it allows for regulations to make provision relating to monitoring compliance, and to criminal offences and detention of ships for contravention of provisions in the regulations. It may not represent any changes in Government policy, but it will allow us to uphold our existing obligations and any future obligations under conventions that the UK may choose to ratify.

[Greg Smith]

New clause 48 introduces the schedule to be inserted by new schedule 3, which in turn amends the Seafarers Wages Act 2023 to give the Secretary of State power to make regulations specifying conditions relating to the wages and working conditions of seafarers who work on ships providing the services currently covered by that Act. Those conditions are enforceable in the same way as existing provisions of the Act. Amendment 208 is consequential on new schedule 3. Amendment 207 states the extent of the new chapter to be formed by new clause 48 and new schedule 3, extending it United Kingdom-wide. Amendment 206 is consequential.

New clause 52 inserts into the Merchant Shipping Act 1995 powers for the Secretary of State to make regulations to give effect to the maritime labour convention, adopted on 23 February 2006, to the work in fishing convention, adopted on 14 June 2007, and to future international agreements that relate to the employment of masters and seamen.

Let me turn to the substance. As I said, the maritime labour convention was adopted on 23 February 2006, and the work in fishing convention on 14 June 2007, so the first question is why the then Labour Government did not see fit to introduce provision in legislation in the first place? Will the Minister explain why it is necessary to legislate to give the Secretary of State sweeping powers to

“by regulations make such provision as the Secretary of State considers appropriate for the purpose of giving effect”

to those two conventions? Precisely what regulations are needed?

Will the Minister give the Committee specific examples of the regulations that the Government intend to make under this power, and justify them? I do not think it is good enough for us to be in this position. Notwithstanding the usual comments the Minister makes about not predetermining consultations and about talking to stakeholders at a later point, this is one of those areas where we need concrete examples of where he expects to go.

A key reason for my asking is that article IV of the maritime labour convention, on seafarers’ employment and social rights, states:

“1. Every seafarer has the right to a safe and secure workplace that complies with safety standards.

2. Every seafarer has a right to fair terms of employment.

3. Every seafarer has a right to decent working and living conditions on board ship.

4. Every seafarer has a right to health protection, medical care, welfare measures and other forms of social protection.”

Will the Minister explain which of the rights I just outlined are not already enforceable under United Kingdom law? Is there difficulty with implementing any of the implementation and enforcement responsibilities in article V?

Will the Minister further explain whether any of the provisions of the work in fishing convention are currently unenforceable under United Kingdom law—I seek just one example—and if so, what specific changes would be needed to enforce them? I ask because I do not think that is clear from any of the new clauses, the new schedule or the amendments that we are considering in this group.

New clause 52 also takes sweeping powers for the Secretary of State, who can make regulations that

“may make provision in respect of the checking or monitoring of compliance with any provision of the regulations, including (among other things) provision for—

(a) the making and keeping of records and the keeping of documents;

(b) the issue of certificates;

(c) the furnishing of information.”

What on earth is encompassed by “the furnishing of information”? That seems like a very vague term to be put on to the statute book. To what intrusive or burdensome use is the Secretary of State planning to put this power? Precisely what does the Minister mean by it?

To convince the Committee that these powers are necessary, can the Minister name one occasion on which the Government’s ability to enforce the provisions of the maritime labour convention has been found wanting, and in what respect? If such an example exists, could the Government better target the powers in proposed new section 84B(4) of the Merchant Shipping Act 1995 to actually solve the problem, rather than allow a Government free-for-all?

This is not a trivial matter, as proposed new section 84B(5) allows the Government to

“provide for the detention of a ship in respect of which a contravention of the regulations is suspected to have occurred”.

Will the Minister explain how long such a detention might last? How great an infraction would need to have been committed for a ship to be detained?

As if the Government had not hoarded enough power through this new clause, proposed new section 84B(8) contains the real kicker, stating that regulations may

“make different provision for different purposes”.

Will the Minister explain the limits on this power? That language is far too woolly and loose to be contained in any piece of primary legislation in this country.

I also do not think it is appropriate that regulations to

“make such provision as the Secretary of State considers appropriate for the purpose of giving effect to an international agreement that has been ratified by the United Kingdom, so far as the agreement relates to maritime employment”

should be subject to the negative procedure. The regulations apply to international agreements that have not yet been entered into. Parliament should at least be guaranteed the ability to debate regulations that implementing such agreements. Otherwise, proposed new section 84B(13) is the very definition of a blank cheque.

The Government tabled new clause 52 just in time for debate today; we have been given very little opportunity to scrutinise it. Given the powers it takes for Ministers, I gently suggest that that is discourteous to the House. The least the Minister can do is provide answers to each of the questions I have posed, so that we are able to understand a little better whether the new clause is even necessary and to what use Ministers actually intend to put the powers.

--- Later in debate ---

Moreover, the Government have introduced new clause 52 with very little opportunity for us to scrutinise its content. This rushed approach to legislation is discourteous to the House and undermines the democratic process. With so many critical powers being handed to Ministers, we should have been given ample time to examine the proposal and assess its implications fully. We as lawmakers need to be able to better understand the necessity and potential consequences of the new clause.

[Justin Madders]

We have heard two similar speeches from the Opposition that have raised a number of similar questions. The first question is: why do we need this? The whole suite of amendments and new clauses are in response to concerns that were rightly highlighted by all parties in condemning the P&O debacle and its underlying motives to undercut existing UK workers and employment laws by transferring people to lower terms and conditions. It is about stopping that race to the bottom. Members will recall the evidence from representatives of the sector in Committee sittings in November. They welcomed the provisions and were keen to see them introduced, because they wanted a level playing field. They did not want to be undercut by people who would seek to pay their staff the minimum necessary. It is about creating a level playing field and putting safeguards in place.

I point out to Opposition Members that the conventions are already UK law. The measures in this group seek to ensure that when they are amended in future, there will be an opportunity to update our own laws to reflect any changes in the conventions. It was a fair question from the shadow Minister to ask what the conventions cover, and they obviously look at it important issues such as maximum hours of work, medical care, accommodation and access to food and drinking water. The maritime labour convention has been amended several times, with new requirements coming in only last month for seafarers to be provided with food and drinking water free of charge during their engagement, as well as provisions in relation to personal protective equipment and ensuring that they have access to social connectivity while at sea.

The new measures are important to improve the working conditions of seafarers, and we currently do not have a mechanism to update our own laws to reflect them. Previously, when we were a member of the EU, the treaties were considered to be community treaties, which meant they were dealt with through regulations. We now need powers in our own legislation to ensure that we can keep up to date with developments in maritime law and protections.

The shadow Minister asked how the powers might be used. Several amendments have been proposed to the convention, including to strengthen seafarers’ access to shore leave and improving protections against bullying and sexual harassment. We need to ensure that the powers in the legislation enable us to keep up with those important protections.

Both Opposition Members mentioned the phrase

“different provision for different purposes”.

My understanding is that the power relates to the implementation of changes to the conventions rather than a broader power, as was suggested.

The point about the negative procedure was noted. The drafting indicates that the initial implementation of regulations will be done by the affirmative procedure and thereafter changes to the law will be made by the negative procedure on the basis that those will be much more modest. The hon. Member for Mid Buckinghamshire is welcome to table an amendment on Report if he thinks that the affirmative procedure should apply to all those issues.

There was a question about furnishing records. If we are going to ensure compliance with international obligations, it is important that those subject to them can document their compliance with the regulations. There is therefore a power to ensure that those records are produced to demonstrate compliance. That is not a departure from the existing arrangements.

There was a general question about the detention of ships. Existing regulations and implementation of the conventions allow for detention to continue or to be introduced where there is concern about compliance or about the health, safety and welfare of those on board the ships. I cannot give any examples of when that has been used, but I recall back in the depths of time a number of occasions when ships were stuck in port for a considerable time. I would have to check whether that was under this regulation, but I can send the hon. Member for Bridgwater further details.

The powers that we seek to introduce are important to make sure that we keep up to date with the latest developments in international maritime law. It is important that there is a level playing field and that people doing this difficult and important work are protected. We must ensure that we never have a situation where employers such as P&O attempt a race to the bottom and we must ensure that standards are maintained across the board. On that basis, I commend these amendments to the Committee.

Question put and agreed to.

New clause 48 accordingly read a Second time, and added to the Bill.

New Clause 49

Information relating to the intelligence services, etc

“(1) A power conferred by section 78 or 79 may not be exercised in relation to a person serving in an intelligence service unless the Secretary of State certifies that the condition in subsection (3) is met in relation to the power.

(2) A power of entry conferred by this Part may not be exercised in relation to any premises (or any part of premises) used for the purposes of an intelligence service unless the Secretary of State certifies that the condition in subsection (3) is met in relation to the power.

(3) The condition in this subsection is met in relation to a power if the Secretary of State is satisfied that the exercise of the power will not be contrary to the public interest or prejudicial to—

(a) national security,

(b) the prevention or detection of serious crime, or

(c) the economic well-being of the United Kingdom.

(4) A certificate issued under this section in relation to a power may impose conditions on the exercise of the power.

(5) Except as provided for by subsection (1), nothing in this Part requires any person to—

(a) produce any document containing intelligence service information, or

(b) provide any information that is intelligence service information.

(6) For the purposes of this section—

(a) ‘crime’ means conduct which—

(i) constitutes a criminal offence, or

(ii) is, or corresponds to, any conduct which, if it all took place in any one part of the United Kingdom, would constitute a criminal offence;

(b) crime is ‘serious’ if—

(i) the offence which is or would be constituted by the conduct is an offence for which the maximum sentence (in any part of the United Kingdom) is imprisonment for three years or more, or

(ii) the conduct involves the use of violence, results in substantial financial gain or is conduct by a large number of persons in pursuit of a common purpose;

(c) ‘intelligence service information’ means information obtained directly or indirectly from, or that relates to, an intelligence service or a person acting on behalf of an intelligence service.”.—(Justin Madders.)

This new clause would restrict the ability of the Secretary of State to exercise enforcement powers in relation to people serving in the intelligence services unless it had been certified that there was no risk to national security, etc. It would also restrict the ability of the Secretary of State to require others to provide documents or information relating to the work of the intelligence services.

Brought up, read the First and Second time, and added to the Bill.

New Clause 50

Providing false information or documents: national security etc defence

“(1) A person in relation to whom a certificate is issued by the Secretary of State for the purposes of this section is not liable for the commission of an offence under section 103 (offence of providing false information or documents).

(2) The Secretary of State may issue a certificate in relation to a person for the purposes of this section only if satisfied that it is necessary for the person to engage in conduct amounting to such an offence—

(a) in the interests of national security,

(b) for the purposes of preventing or detecting serious crime, or

(c) in the interests of the economic well-being of the United Kingdom.

(3) A certificate under this section may be revoked by the Secretary of State at any time.

(4) For the purposes of subsection (2)(b)—

(a) ‘crime’ means conduct which—

(i) constitutes a criminal offence, or

(ii) is, or corresponds to, any conduct which, if it all took place in any one part of the United Kingdom, would constitute a criminal offence, and

(b) crime is ‘serious’ if—

(i) the offence which is or would be constituted by the conduct is an offence for which the maximum sentence (in any part of the United Kingdom) is imprisonment for three years or more, or

(ii) the conduct involves the use of violence, results in substantial financial gain or is conduct by a large number of persons in pursuit of a common purpose.”.—(Justin Madders.)

This new clause would provide a defence to the offence in Clause 103 of providing false information or documents in response to a requirement imposed by the Secretary of State under Part 5 of the Bill. The defence would apply if the Secretary of State certified that the conduct in question was necessary in the interests of national security or for certain other limited reasons.

Brought up, read the First and Second time, and added to the Bill.

New Clause 52

International agreements relating to maritime employment

“(1) The Merchant Shipping Act 1995 is amended as follows.

(2) After section 84 insert—

‘Part 3A

International agreements relating to maritime employment

84A International agreements relating to maritime employment

(1) The Secretary of State may by regulations make such provision as the Secretary of State considers appropriate for the purpose of giving effect to—

(a) the Maritime Labour Convention, adopted on 23 February 2006 by the International Labour Organisation, as it has effect from time to time;

(b) the Work in Fishing Convention, adopted on 14 June 2007 by the International Labour Organisation, as it has effect from time to time.

(2) The Secretary of State may by regulations make such provision as the Secretary of State considers appropriate for the purpose of giving effect to an international agreement that has been ratified by the United Kingdom, so far as the agreement relates to maritime employment.

(3) The power in subsection (2) to give effect to an agreement so far as it relates to maritime employment includes power to give effect to any amendments of the agreement that relate to maritime employment.

(4) For the purposes of this section, a provision relates to maritime employment if it relates to the terms and conditions of employment or engagement, or working conditions, of masters or seamen.

(5) Section 84B makes further provision with respect to the regulations that may be made under this section.

84B Regulations under section 84A: supplementary

(1) In subsections (2) to (9) “regulations” means regulations under section 84A.

(2) Regulations—

(a) may make provision in terms of approvals given by the Secretary of State or another person and in terms of any document which the Secretary of State or that other person considers relevant;

(b) may provide for the cancellation of an approval given in pursuance of the regulations and for the alteration of the terms of such an approval;

(c) must provide for any approval in pursuance of the regulations to be given in writing and to specify the date on which it takes effect and the conditions (if any) on which it is given.

(3) Regulations may make provision for—

(a) the granting by the Secretary of State or another person of exemptions from specified provisions of the regulations for classes of case or individual cases, on such terms (if any) as the Secretary of State or that other person may specify, and

(b) for the alteration or cancellation of such exemptions.

(4) Regulations may make provision in respect of the checking or monitoring of compliance with any provision of the regulations, including (among other things) provision for—

(a) the making and keeping of records and the keeping of documents;

(b) the issue of certificates;

(c) the furnishing of information.

(5) Regulations may—

(a) provide for the detention of a ship in respect of which a contravention of the regulations is suspected to have occurred;

(b) apply section 284 with or without modifications in relation to such detentions.

(6) Regulations may provide for the contravention of any provision of the regulations to be a criminal offence, but may not provide—

(a) for an offence under the regulations to be punishable on summary conviction with imprisonment;

(b) in relation to Scotland or Northern Ireland—

(i) for an offence under the regulations that is triable only summarily to be punishable by a fine exceeding level 5 on the standard scale;

(ii) for an offence under the regulations that is triable summarily or on indictment to be punishable on summary conviction by a fine exceeding the statutory maximum;

(c) for an offence under the regulations to be punishable on conviction on indictment with imprisonment for a term exceeding two years.

(7) Regulations may provide that, in specified cases, specified persons each commit an offence created by regulations in reliance on subsection (6).

(8) Regulations may—

(a) make different provision for different purposes;

(b) provide for references in the regulations to any specified document to operate as references to that document as revised or re-issued from time to time;

(c) provide for the delegation of functions exercisable by virtue of the regulations.

(9) The power to make regulations includes power to make consequential, supplementary, incidental or transitional provision.

(10) The powers conferred by section 84A to make provision for the purpose of giving effect to an agreement or an amendment of an agreement include power to provide for the provision to come into force although the agreement or amendment has not come into force.

(11) Nothing in this section is to be construed as restricting the generality of the powers conferred by section 84A.

(12) A statutory instrument which—

(a) contains (whether alone or with other provision) regulations under section 84A(2), and

(b) is the first exercise of the power in respect of a particular agreement,

may not be made unless a draft of the instrument has been laid before, and approved by a resolution of, each House of Parliament.

(13) A statutory instrument which—

(a) contains regulations under section 84A(2), and

(b) is a subsequent exercise of the power in respect of a particular agreement,

is subject to annulment in pursuance of a resolution of either House of Parliament.’

(3) In section 306 (regulations etc), in subsection (2A)(a), after ‘section’ insert ‘84A(2),’.”—(Justin Madders.)

This new clause inserts into the Merchant Shipping Act 1995 powers for the Secretary of State to make regulations to give effect to two named international maritime Conventions, and to future international agreements that relate to the employment of masters and seamen.

Brought up, read the First and Second time, and added to the Bill.

New Clause 2

Prison officers: inducements to withhold services

“In section 127 of the Criminal Justice and Public Order Act 1994 (Inducements to withhold services or to indiscipline)—

(a) in subsection (1), omit paragraph (a);

(b) omit subsection (1A);

(c) omit subsection (7).”—(Mr Bedford.)

This new clause would repeal provisions in the Criminal Justice and Public Order Act 1994 that prohibit inducing a prison officer to take (or continue to take) any industrial action.

Brought up, and read the First time.

--- Later in debate ---

[Mr Bedford]

It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Ms Vaz. Why am I moving a new clause tabled in the name of the right hon. Member for Hayes and Harlington (John McDonnell)? I asked myself that question. I believe that it is important that the Committee hear and debate in full every proposed amendment to this truly awful Bill. Indeed, this is why my constituents in Mid Leicestershire sent me to this place. They likely knew what the make-up of the House of Commons, and therefore the composition of this Committee, would be after the election. I believe they would want me to hold the Government to account, particularly on legislation such as this.

Even though I find the views of the right hon. Member for Hayes and Harlington completely unagreeable, he has been sent to this place to put on record what he believes is right. It will be interesting to see how many on the Government side agree with his new clauses. In layman’s terms, new clauses 2 and 3 relate to allowing prison officers the right to strike. I am sure their instinct is to support these new clauses. I will take the time to outline why I believe this would be a step in the wrong direction.

Prisons are essential for every functioning society. They serve out punishment, act as a deterrent and reform offenders. The prison guard—or screw, to use the colloquial vernacular—plays a crucial role in maintaining these key purposes. In 2024, there were more than 23,614 prison guards in England and Wales. This increased by 5,000 during the term of the last Conservative Government. I am sure that everyone on the Committee will be thankful for the work of Conservative colleagues in increasing that total.

Anecdotally, when I speak to residents in my Mid Leicestershire constituency, a large majority believe that prison officers do a great job and should be commended for all they do to keep us safe. Although my constituency does not have an active prison within its boundaries, there are three nearby in the county of Leicestershire. First, there is HMP Gartree, which is located to the south-east of Leicester city, a short drive from Mid Leicestershire. It is a category B prison and has had some notable inmates over the last 60 years. There is also HMP Fosse Way, which is a category C prison located to the south of the city. Finally, there is HMP Leicester, a category B prison in the city centre that hosts more than 400 inmates. In fact, the strange castle design of the prison leads to many tourists visiting it and taking photos.

The prisons offer three incredible employment opportunities for my constituents in Mid Leicestershire, but I fundamentally believe that they would be deeply concerned about the provisions in these new clauses. What would happen in these prisons on strike day? Would prisoners be able to do as they pleased? Would they be left in their cells? Who would be there to care for them if something terrible—

[Justin Madders]

On a point of order, Ms Vaz. Is it in order for a Member to move a new clause and then speak against it?

[The Chair]

I am waiting to hear what the hon. Member says when he gets to the end of his remarks.

[Steve Darling (Torbay) (LD)]

I am sure that my residents would be horrified that these proposals are seeing the light of day in the Committee. I am shocked that Conservative Members are putting them out there. I expected us just to pass on by them, but I want to make sure that it is on the record that the Liberal Democrats do not support these rather peculiar proposals, which have only seen the light of day thanks to a Conservative Member.

[Justin Madders]

There are approximately 170,000 words in the “Oxford English Dictionary”, but I am struggling to find one to adequately encapsulate the speech by the hon. Member for Mid Leicestershire. It is clearly a novel approach to a Bill Committee to move an amendment and then speak against it. I do not think anything he said would have persuaded me the other way had I not already been minded to oppose the new clauses, although he did his best.

It is important that we put on the record our appreciation for the work of prison officers. They work in difficult environments every day, dealing with very challenging people, and we recognise that they are critical to keeping the public safe. Under the current legislation, prison officers are prevented from taking industrial action, and their pay is governed by the independent Prison Service Pay Review Body, which acts as a compensatory mechanism for that restriction. Indeed, one of the first actions of this Government was to accept the pay review body recommendations for 2024-25, and we delivered on our commitment to launch the 2025-26 pay review body process in September, three months earlier than the previous Government did. Our written evidence to the body for the next pay round was published on 10 December, paving the way for a timely pay round. We are well positioned for that process to conclude. We need to ensure that everyone who works in a prison has the right to decent conditions and a fair reward for their hard work. The Government are committed to achieving that, but I believe that we can do so without the need for legislative change.

Prison officers are essential to maintaining order and control in prisons. A withdrawal of their services, as we have heard, even if only partial, would create a risk to order and to the life and limb of individuals. There are limited contingency plans in place to deal with strike action and, during such incidents, reliance on a narrow pool of operational managers and support from the police would create risks. I am sure that Members do not need that spelling out. This would also result in significant disruption to the operation of the courts and the police, representing a significant risk to public safety.

I know that the POA is very keen, understandably, to have this proposal enacted. Its representatives have met the Justice Secretary recently, and they continue to do so, and I have spoken to them. I understand their view, but we cannot agree to this at this point. I do not know whether the amendment will be pushed to a vote—I suspect that it will not be, from what the hon. Member for Mid Leicestershire said—but we will not support it.

[The Chair]

I just say that the Clerks have checked, and it is in order to move an amendment and then speak against it.

--- Later in debate ---

[Justin Madders]

First, I thank the Liberal Democrat spokesperson for moving the new clause. This is his clause 4 moment—the road to socialism is often a long one, but I am glad to see he is taking steps towards it. He raises an important topic on behalf of the hon. Member for Oxford West and Abingdon (Layla Moran); indeed, a number of Members of the House have discussed it with me over a period of time, because the use of non-disclosure agreements presents challenges.

As has been said, NDAs can be used quite legitimately in different contexts and contracts. As the responsible Department for the use of NDAs in employment relationships, we recognise that they can have a legitimate role, such as to protect trade secrets, intellectual property and commercially sensitive information. Of course their most common use is in allowing workers and employers to reach a settlement on a dispute or a claim. It goes without saying that a worker may want to settle a dispute and receive the confidentiality protections associated with a settlement agreement to avoid going through an employment tribunal, which can be a distressing experience in itself. Having a non-disclosure agreement can also increase the value of such an agreement, depending how negotiations go.

There are existing legal limits to the use of NDAs in the employment context. For example, any clauses of an NDA that sought to stop a worker blowing the whistle to a lawyer or a prescribed person under the legislation would not be enforceable. The use of an NDA by an employer may amount to a criminal offence if it is an attempt by the employer to pervert the course of justice or conceal a criminal offence. A settlement agreement under the Employment Rights Act 1996 and any confidentiality clauses it contains is void if the worker did not receive independent advice on the terms and effect of the agreement. Speaking as one who has given such advice on countless occasions, I can assure the Committee that this a matter the legal profession takes very seriously. None the less, workers may not be aware of their rights.

Both the Equality and Human Rights Commission and ACAS have published guidance on NDAs, but reports continue of improper use of NDAs, as the hon. Member for Torbay mentioned, particularly in relation to sexual harassment, discrimination and bullying in the workplace. Last year, the Women and Equalities Committee inquiry into misogyny in music and the Treasury Committee inquiry into sexism in the City reported on the misuse of NDAs in specific sectors and industries. Their reports highlighted how NDAs can have a silencing effect on some victims, who come under pressure to sign an NDA and are not aware of their existing rights, and how NDAs may be a part of wider organisational cultures and practices for some employers. We have heard a clear example of that today. The Solicitors Regulation Authority and the Legal Services Board have also recently conducted a call for evidence and a thematic review into the use of NDAs among the legal profession. Overall, those reports highlight that, while we have seen some progress and some positive developments, the issues in this space are multiple and persistent. The Government are live to the concerns about the misuse of NDAs to intimidate and silence victims of crime and other types of misconduct, particularly harassment, discrimination, and bullying.

The Victims and Prisoners Act 2024 contains a measure that, when commenced, will ensure that victims can report a crime, co-operate with regulators and access confidential advice and support without fear of legal action. It does so by providing that any clauses in NDAs seeking to prevent those actions cannot legally be enforced. The Ministry of Justice is carefully considering plans to bring the relevant section of that Act into force and will be working closely with the victim support and business sectors to ensure that the new measure is implemented and deployed effectively. We continue to listen carefully to representations on further action needed to curb the misuse of NDAs.

The specific wording that is proposed today would make any provision in an agreement precluding a worker from making a relevant disclosure that relates to harassment carried out by a fellow worker, or client of their employer, unenforceable. Under the consequential amendment, the measure would come into force on the day that this legislation is passed. I have some reservations about the amendment as drafted, as it would make a significant change from the current position and there might be unintended consequences.

To render provisions related to disclosures on harassment unenforceable could have negative effects on both workers and employers. A worker may want to settle a dispute over harassment and receive the confidentiality protections associated with a settlement agreement. The proposal may also impact on their ability to reach a settlement and avoid going to an employment tribunal, or may indeed reduce the value of such an agreement. The amendment may also lead to uncertainty for both employers and workers who have entered into NDAs previously.

The Government are looking into this. There is obviously some evidence, and there was a Government consultation, but that was some time ago, so we intend to look more closely at what we can do in this area. I have met some of the interested parties and there are other proposals to deal with this issue that might be slightly more workable than those in the new clause proposed by the Liberal Democrat spokesperson. I say to him that although we are aware of this issue and know it needs attention, we are not able to support the new clause.

[Steve Darling]

I welcome the Minister’s reassurances and I beg to ask leave to withdraw the clause.

Clause, by leave, withdrawn.

New Clause 12

Substitution Clauses

“(1) Any agreement, whether a contract or otherwise, between—

(a) an employer or a contractor of services, and

(b) an employee, worker or dependent contractor

must not include provision for the employee, worker or dependent contractor to appoint a substitute to supply services or undertake work on their behalf.

(2) For the purposes of subsection (1)(a), “contractor of services” means an organisation that—

(a) enters into an agreement, whether a contract or otherwise, with a supplier or dependent contractor to supply services,

(b) does not require the supplier or dependent contractor to supply services, and

(c) pays the supplier or dependent contractor according to tasks performed rather than hours of work.

(3) For the purposes of subsection (1)(b), "dependent contractor" means an individual who—

(a) is appointed to perform work or services for an employer or contractor of services,

(b) is paid according to tasks performed rather than hours of work,

(c) depends partially or primarily on the employer or contractor of services for employment and income,

(d) is not required to perform services for the employer or contractor of services, and

(e) is not specified as an employee or worker within a statement of employment particulars or a contract of employment.”—(Nick Timothy.)

This new clause would prohibit the use of “substitution clauses”, which allow companies to permit their suppliers – including some delivery couriers – to appoint a substitute to supply services on their behalf.

Brought up, and read the First time.

--- Later in debate ---

[Greg Smith]

I commend my hon. Friend for proposing new clause 12 and amendment 111. He has just outlined a very serious and live concern in our economy today. I cannot believe that any Government Member, having heard the evidence that my hon. Friend has outlined, would want those practices to continue in our economy, not least given the grave and worrying evidence presented about sexual harassment, sexual offences and rape. Those facts cannot be ignored. Even if the Government will not take action off the back of my hon. Friend’s new clause, I call on the Minister to take very seriously the evidence that he has outlined and come up with another vehicle in which to get protections into legislation.

My hon. Friend has explained the situation at some length, so I will conclude by saying that the Government have a clear choice here. They can go down the political route and, having heard compelling evidence, still say, “We do not want to do this because it has come from a Conservative Member,” or find some language to say that in a different way. Alternatively, we can do something all too rare in this place: we can take a real and live problem identified by my hon. Friend and reach cross-party consensus on the need to tackle it, and acknowledge that tackling it fits very neatly with the aims and objectives of the Bill we have been considering for some weeks in Committee. We all make political choices in this place. It is now incumbent on the Minister to give us the political choice that he and the Government wish to make on this: stand with the victims whom my hon. Friend’s new clause aims to protect, or go down the political route.

[Justin Madders]

I am genuinely grateful to the hon. Member for West Suffolk for raising this matter, because I take it extremely seriously. I am pleased to see that he and the shadow Minister do too. It has clearly become more and more of an issue in recent years. It is based on exploitation of vulnerable individuals. It is about a race to the bottom and about a labour market that is, as Matthew Taylor identified all those years ago, fundamentally not working.

That said, we are not able to accept the new clause, and I will explain why. That does not mean I am not sympathetic to it. We have been doing a number of things. I recently met the Director of Labour Market Enforcement, Margaret Beels, and the Home Office to discuss this matter. In fact, we have now met the Home Office twice on this issue, because we are aware that there are concerns about how substitution clauses in the gig economy, in particular, are operating. I have recently written to Deliveroo, Just Eat and Uber, because their substitution clauses—certainly some of them—do not appear to have any cognisance of whether the substitute has the right to work in the UK. I would not say that applies to all gig economy companies—I could say “employers”, but of course they would say that they are not employers. They do not all take that view of substitution, but it is clear from what we have heard that this is not being policed properly at the moment, so we want these companies to step up and make sure that those who are working for them are entitled to do so legally, that they know who they are and that they are who they say they are, and that all the checks that we would expect any responsible employer to make have been made.

The challenge is that there is a broad definition of self-employment and substitution clauses are used far more widely than the gig economy. There have been cases going back decades on whether someone has employment rights, and that often centres on the use of a substitution clause. In recent years, that has been turbocharged by gig economy companies to create this new network of workers, but there would be a number of unintended consequences in the wider economy if we accepted the new clause, because of its broadness. It would make people such as IT contractors or plumbers—indeed, there was a case involving a gym instructor who had a substitution clause—unable to provide a substitute. There are all sorts of jobs out there—many thousands and possibly millions—where substitution clauses are used perfectly well, and unfortunately, because of the way the new clause is drafted, it would mean that none of those people could continue to use them. Clearly, we would not want to see that, because it is an important part of self-employment for someone to be able to provide a substitute for their services if they are unavailable, but we recognise that the law needs modernising in this area. We have committed to consulting on a simpler, two-part framework for employment status. We think that is really important to drive out the many abuses that we have heard about.

I agree with the hon. Member for West Suffolk that it should not be left to the courts to determine whether someone has particular rights. That should be set down by Parliament, and it should be clear and make sure that there is no room for loopholes. It is important that we get that right. I think that the new clause would create a whole range of unintended consequences and exclude people from carrying out their legitimate business, but I assure hon. Members that I take this matter very seriously and I am doing what I can, before we have the review, to make sure that those companies that are employing people in this way are doing so safely and responsibly.

--- Later in debate ---

That statement seems directly contradictory to the Government’s aim to achieve growth, and such a move is designed to take us back to the 1970s. We would like part 4 to have considerably more scrutiny and justification before it can be commenced, and that is what our new clause and amendment are designed to achieve.

[Justin Madders]

The shadow Minister seeks through the new clause and amendment to relitigate a number of the issues we debated last week, and he will not be surprised to hear that I will pick up on just one or two of his comments. He said that the 100-day deadline was unrealistic, but it was not, because we achieved it. All involved made a fantastic effort to ensure that we had a Bill published within that 100-day deadline. There have been some minor technical amendments to the Bill as we have moved along, and there are important issues of principle that we continue to engage and consult on.

As the shadow Minister said, the new clause would require a consultation on the operation of the Trade Union and Labour Relations (Consolidation) Act 1992, as amended by part 4 of the Bill. I was not entirely clear whether he was referring just to the amendments to the 1992 Act by virtue of part 4 of this Bill or to the entire Act; in any event, there is some overlap between the two. We are pretty clear that the intention behind the new clause is to delay the Bill as much as possible. It would impinge on our desire and our manifesto commitment to improve workers’ rights and the ability of workers to have a meaningful voice through collective bargaining to secure pay and conditions.

The shadow Minister will be aware that the Government have already undertaken a number of consultations, with four over the Christmas period, including one on modernising the framework for industrial relations, which would cover many of the provisions of the 1992 Act. As we move forward, get the Bill through Parliament and lay secondary legislation, there will be ongoing consultations and discussions about the provisions in the Bill, the application of codes of practice, and some of the matters that have been left for regulation. I do not believe that there is criticism about the level of consultation. We have engaged extensively with all stakeholders on a number of matters, and we will continue to do that almost weekly.

The shadow Minister challenged me about how we can push the Bill forward, without there being questions as to whether it would lead to increased industrial action. The evidence we have is that legislation introduced by the Conservative Government led to increased industrial action in the last two years, and saw the highest levels of industrial action in decades. That shows that not putting industrial relations on a sensible footing and a collegiate basis is detrimental to them. The impact assessment for the Strikes (Minimum Service Levels) Act 2023 made it clear it would worsen industrial relations, and so it proved.

The shadow Minister talked about the burden and the red tape. A number of measures in the Bill will actually reduce burdens on employers’ organisations and trade unions in terms of notification and reporting requirements. He also challenged us on what the impact of some of this stuff will be. We can never say for sure that the Strikes (Minimum Service Levels) Act 2023 will have any impact, because it has never been used. One of the fundamental weaknesses with that legislation was that it was so unworkable and so damaging to industrial relations that no one ever thought it was a sensible idea to implement it. There were also powers in the Trade Union Act 2016 that were never used. Where powers were used—for example, on facility time and the requirement to report that in the public sector—the figures at the start of the period for reporting were exactly the same as they were at the end. So there was a lot of hot air and posturing in that previous legislation, and it was not conducive to good industrial relations. We are more than happy to see the back of it, but of course we will continue to consult and engage with all stakeholders as we move forward on implementing our clear manifesto commitments. On that note, I would oppose these proposals.

[Greg Smith]

It is a shame that the Minister has taken that attitude towards proper consultation before commencement of part 4. We still think it should happen, but we will, in good faith, give the Minister time to reflect ahead of Report. For now, I beg to ask leave to withdraw the motion.

Clause, by leave, withdrawn.

New Clause 21

Right to switch off in relation to trade union representatives

“(1) The Trade Union and Labour Relations (Consolidation) Act 1992 is amended in accordance with subsection (2).

(2) After section 69 (right to terminate membership of trade union), insert—

‘Right to switch off in relation to trade union representatives

69A Right to switch off in relation to trade union representatives

In every contract of membership of a trade union, whether made before or after the coming into force of this section, a term conferring a right on the member to refuse to monitor, read or respond to contact (or attempted contact) by a trade union representative outside their working hours shall be implied.’.” —(Greg Smith.)

This new clause confers a right to switch off on trade union members in relation to contact from trade union representatives.

Brought up, and read the First time.

--- Later in debate ---

[Greg Smith]

I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman for his intervention, but the points he makes could equally be applied to employers needing, in those special circumstances, to make contact with an employee or a representative of an employee, but the Government are not making those exemptions on that side of the fence. They would seem—we are yet to hear from the Minister, but what the hon. Member for Birmingham Northfield has said is indicative—to be resisting those same provisions applying to trade unions. It seems to be a bit of a double standard, and it is one that the amendment and the new clause seek to address. There cannot be one rule for employers and another rule for the trade unions. It is a matter of fairness that we are proposing the new clause and the amendment, and I look forward to hearing what the Minister has to say in response.

[Justin Madders]

The first thing to say is that it is pretty obvious that the shadow Minister has never been a member of a trade union.

[Greg Smith]

Just so that I can formally get it on the record, I can assure the Minister that I have never been a member of a trade union.

[Justin Madders]

I am sorry to say this, but the shadow Minister seemed almost proud of that fact.

[Michael Wheeler (Worsley and Eccles) (Lab)]

Does the Minister agree that the new clause seems to have no relation to the world of work, and that Opposition Members might actually be living out the fantasy that they can switch off from us on the Government Benches?

[Justin Madders]

If we start getting into the right to switch off from people we might not want to hear from, we could end up in a very dark place.

The shadow Minister will see from the reaction on the Government Benches that we have never had any issue with nuisance calls or pestering from trade unions when we have been in the workplace—it is really not like that at all. These proposals are indicative of the rather outdated idea that some Opposition Members have about how trade unions operate. Were they passed, one of the unintended consequences would undoubtedly be increased demand on facility time—something I am sure the shadow Minister would not be too pleased about.

Put bluntly, there is no demand for this requirement. I do not think anyone has suggested it to officials—certainly not trade unions or, indeed, employers. There is nothing to stop a union member ignoring communication from their union. There is no obligation on them to respond to messages at any time.

The employment relationship is, of course, very different to membership of a trade union, because there is a division between home and working lives, and a recognition that that has to be respected. Unfortunately, there is also an expectation that people should be constantly contactable outside of work hours. We will not be legislating to ban all communication outside of working hours; what we are looking to do is implement the statutory code of practice, which will set out clear expectations and obligations to get the balance right between allowing flexibility and making it clear that people’s home lives should be respected. There will be a consultation on that in due course, and I am sure the shadow Minister can submit something about trade unions contacting people if he wants to do so, but I suspect he will be the only one who does. But I am afraid I cannot support this new clause—or indeed take it seriously—so I reject it on that basis.

--- Later in debate ---

[Greg Smith]

I beg to move, That the clause be read a Second time.

I rise to speak to new clause 22, although from the mutterings of my hon. Friend the Member for Bridgwater, I am sure all Government Members will now have their phones on display, just in case they ring. The new clause would require the Secretary of State to lay before Parliament a report containing an assessment of the costs of establishing a single labour market enforcement body or, as we now refer to it, the fair work agency. The report must be published no earlier than a year, and no later than 18 months, after the Bill becomes an Act.

We tabled the new clause because we want to understand the cost-benefit analysis the Government have undertaken in relation to establishing the labour market enforcement body. Will the Minister inform the Committee about that work? Specifically, whenever there is a reorganisation of the responsibilities between the Government and non-departmental public bodies, there are always logistical difficulties to manage, such as the transfer of staff and so on.

The Government’s own impact assessment of the establishment of the fair work agency is fairly damning:

“Limited evidence and an incomplete design of the operational and organisational structure of the FWA mean that it has not been possible to quantity the impact of benefits arising from its introduction nor the majority of associated costs. Where costs have been calculated they are limited to the one-off costs faced by businesses in order to familiarise themselves with changes to the enforcement system. We estimate that these costs would be £33m.”

That is not my estimate, but the estimate in the Government’s own impact assessment. In other words, our new clause is needed. The Government have not been able to assess the costs of bringing together enforcement in this way and whether it represents value for money.

As for the cost to business, the impact assessment is, again, not exactly glowing:

“It is unclear what the total impact on business will be as a result of the creation of the FWA, this uncertainty is due to:…The operational and organisational design of the FWA not being finalised…Uncertain evidence on the number of employers and employees in scope of changes to labour market enforcement…Undetermined behavioural responses by both employers and employees as a result of the creation of the FWA.”

On the direct cost to businesses, it says:

“Businesses will face one off familiarisation costs due to the introduction of the FWA. We estimate that the costs of these changes would be £33m. Additionally, businesses who are subject to investigation will face costs even if they are later found to be compliant with relevant regulation. It is not possible to state the total number of affected businesses, but we estimate that an investigation would cost each investigated business £770.”

That is not an inconsiderable sum just for the investigation, before anything else is found, particularly for our small and medium-sized enterprises.

All of that shows that the Government’s policy thinking is at such an early stage that it is difficult to make any reliable judgments about it. We may all agree that the fair work agency is a nice idea in principle, but the Government are introducing it, and it is their job to make sure they can demonstrate that it will work in practice and provide a better deal for taxpayers, employers and workers than they are getting now. At the moment, the jury is straightforwardly still out.

There are several strands to this issue. For example, on the enforcement system for labour market legislation, the impact assessment states that

“the Bill could increase the volume of cases in the ‘individual enforcement’…system by around 15%, albeit this would be offset to some degree by the implementation of the Fair Work Agency (FWA). The exact impact on the enforcement system is difficult to predict because the number of cases that enter the system each year fluctuates, and it will ultimately depend on behavioural factors like employers’ willingness and ability to comply with regulation, and employees’ willingness to bring forward a dispute.”

In other words, the Government are really not sure about the impact that the Bill will have on the number of enforcement claims being brought to tribunal and the ability of the tribunal system to cope.

For all those reasons, we have tabled new clause 22, which would require the Secretary of State to lay before Parliament a report containing an assessment of the costs of establishing a single labour market enforcement body. Given the level of detail available so far, that would seem to be a reasonable and moderate requirement to enable Parliament to scrutinise the new agency and the value for money that it provides. It might even enable the Government to provide the House with a good news story. The only reason to resist the new clause would be if the Government thought that the new agency was not going to be such good news after all.

[Justin Madders]

Let me start by explaining once again why we believe the fair work agency is so important.

As we know, the current landscape for employment rights is, as was actually recognised by the previous Government, fragmented and in need of reform. I believe there is widespread agreement about that. As a Committee, we heard evidence from Margaret Beels, the Director of Labour Market Enforcement, that the current fragmentation creates a barrier to providing effective sector-wide enforcement. She noted that bringing powers together in the fair work agency would allow for better information sharing and a more flexible and adaptive approach to enforcement, enabling resources to be directed where they are most needed.

Other witnesses agreed with that assessment; indeed, I recall that a huge range of witnesses at the evidence sessions spoke in favour of a single enforcement body. The CBI, the British Chambers of Commerce, the British Retail Consortium, the Chartered Institute of Personnel and Development, the Recruitment and Employment Confederation, the Food and Drink Federation, the Co-operative or Co-op, the Women’s Budget Group and the Work Foundation all spoke in favour of a single enforcement body.

The shadow Minister mentioned the impact assessment, but the Bill was in fact green-rated by the Regulatory Policy Committee. There is a commitment to keep the performance and cost of the fair work agency under review. There will be a review three years after implementation of the agency. As would be expected, merging different structures together is a complex task, so costings are still being developed at this stage. Nevertheless, securing value for money is clearly a key consideration in that process.

The shadow Minister made an interesting point about behavioural change. Clearly, such change is very difficult to model in, but we hope that by establishing the fair work agency we will send a very clear signal that we expect employers to comply with the law, that the best standards should be adhered to, and that the race to the bottom should end. As a result of all that, we will see far better employment practices across the country.

The fair work agency will be part of the Department for Business and Trade, so its costs will be in the Department’s accounts, which Parliament can scrutinise in the normal way. Once the agency is fully established, it will produce its own accounts as part of its reports, and those accounts will be consolidated into the Department’s annual accounts, which, of course, will also be subject to parliamentary scrutiny.

Consequently, I do not believe that new clause 22 would add anything to the multiple channels that are already available for parliamentarians to establish and identify the costs and benefits of the agency.

[Greg Smith]

I heard what the Minister said. The cost is important because it is ultimately both cost to the taxpayer and cost to our businesses which create all the wealth in the first place, which then gets taxed and pays for our public services. I invite the Minister to reflect on that, going forward. It is absolutely vital that the Government understand what things will cost before we make them happen, whether that is a Labour, Conservative or coalition Government—or whatever it might be. Once more, in a developing theme with the earlier new clauses that we proposed, I invite the Minister to reflect on that point ahead of Report, and we certainly intend to return to that on a future occasion, but for now, I beg to ask leave to withdraw the motion.

Clause, by leave, withdrawn.

New Clause 24

Impact assessment: sections 1 to 6

“(1) The Secretary of State must conduct a review of—

(a) the impact of those sections on the operation of employment tribunals, and

(b) the ability of employment tribunals to manage any increase in applications resulting from those sections.

(2) The Secretary of State must lay the review made under subsection (1) and the Government’s response to the review before Parliament.”—(Greg Smith.)

This new clause would require the Secretary of State to conduct a review of the impact on the employment tribunals of the Bill’s provisions on zero hours workers.

Brought up, and read the First time.

--- Later in debate ---

That is what new clause 25 and amendment 129 seek to achieve: that the Secretary of State must prove that the employment tribunal can cope with the additional cases before the clauses of the Bill on unfair dismissal can be commenced. To do anything short of that would be a dereliction of duty to both employees and employers.

[Justin Madders]

I thank the shadow Minister for moving the new clause, and for tabling new clause 25 and amendments 128 and 129. In new clause 24 and amendment 128 he seeks, first, to insert into the Bill a new clause requiring the Secretary of State to conduct a review of the impact on employment tribunals of the Bill’s zero-hours measures in clauses 1 to 6; and secondly, to provide that those measures cannot be commenced until that review has been conducted and laid before Parliament.

The Government have already produced a comprehensive set of impact assessments. Our analysis included illustrative analysis of the impact on employment tribunal cases, which we intend to refine over time by working closely with the Ministry of Justice, His Majesty’s Courts and Tribunals Service, ACAS and wider stakeholders. The quantifiable impact of the measures on zero-hours contracts is estimated to be an annual increase of about 1,000 additional cases for employment tribunals per year. That assessment was published at Second Reading and was based on the best available evidence for the potential impact on business, workers and the wider economy.

We will also publish an enactment impact assessment once the Bill reaches Royal Assent, in line with the requirements of the better regulation framework. That will account for ways in which the Bill has been amended in its passage through Parliament in such a way as to change significantly the impacts of the policy on employment tribunals. That impact assessment will then be published alongside the enacted legislation. I therefore reassure the shadow Minister that there is no need for the Government to be required to bring new impact assessments before Parliament, as we intend to publish further analysis alongside future consultations, ahead of secondary legislation, in accordance with the better regulation requirements.

The shadow Minister also seeks to insert new clause 25, which would include an assessment of the impact on employment tribunals of changes to protections against some kinds of dismissal in the Bill. Amendment 129 then seeks, again, to delay commencement of those changes until the review has been laid before Parliament. As I said, we have already produced a comprehensive set of impact assessments, which were published at Second Reading and based on the best available evidence for the potential impact. Our analysis includes illustrative assessment of the impact on employment tribunal cases, which we intend to refine over time by working closely with the Ministry of Justice, His Majesty’s Courts and Tribunals Service, ACAS and wider stakeholders.

The shadow Minister mentioned the concerns about unfair dismissal, especially for those on the margins of employment. Such concerns are, of course, one reason why a statutory probationary period has been proposed. He also mentioned the experience of the statutory dismissal and grievance procedures in the early 2000s. I assure him, having lived through that, that we do not wish to repeat those mistakes. We will look to ensure as much clarity and certainty as possible in the legislation before it is enacted.

We will publish an enactment impact assessment once the Bill reaches Royal Assent, in line with the requirements of the better regulation framework. That will account, in those areas, for any ways in which the Bill has been amended in Parliament that change significantly the policy impact on the enforcement system. That will be published alongside the enacted legislation. I therefore assure the Committee that there is no need for the Bill to require the Government to undertake further assessment of the impact on tribunals before commencement, because we will do that as we go along.

Impacts will be considered, and I am also looking at ways to ensure that the tribunals system is able to deal with any additional claims that may arise as a result of the Bill, and how it can work more efficiently with the significant backlogs that it already has. As the Committee will appreciate, that is within the purview of the Ministry of Justice, but clearly it is something that we intend to work closely with it on. I therefore invite the shadow Minister to withdraw his new clauses and amendments.

[Greg Smith]

I hear what the Minister says. I am grateful for his comments about his desire not to repeat the mistakes of the early 2000s. I still think that the new clauses and amendments that we tabled would be important for business and for employees. We will seek to return to them on Report, as with the other new clauses. For the time being, however, I beg to ask leave to withdraw the motion.

Clause, by leave, withdrawn.

New Clause 31

Sections 1 to 6: impact assessment

“The Secretary of State must, within six months of the day on which this Act is passed, publish and lay before Parliament an assessment of the expected impact of sections 1 to 6 on—

(a) the hospitality sector,

(b) the retail sector, and

(c) the health and social care sector.”—(Greg Smith.)

This new clause requires the Government to publish an impact assessment on the impact of sections 1-6.

Brought up, and read the First time.

--- Later in debate ---

[Greg Smith]

Amendment 154, which is consequential on new clause 31, would require the Government to publish an impact assessment on the impact of clauses 1 to 6 on the hospitality, retail and health and social care sectors. The Government’s impact assessment states that zero-hours contracts are most frequently used in the hospitality, retail and health and social care sectors, which is why new clause 31 would require the Government to conduct an impact assessment to understand how well those sectors are able to cope with the provisions before they come into force. In the social care sector, given the workforce challenges that we all know about, that is particularly acute, especially if the provisions are also extended to agency workers, as it is not clear how that would be workable.

The impact assessment provided by the Government is for the guaranteed hours provisions across the economy as a whole, but we know that the impact will be more severe in particular sectors. The Government estimate that the administrative costs of facilitating the right to guaranteed hours will be around £160 million. Since healthcare and education are large employers of zero-hours contracts and agency workers, some of the impact will fall on His Majesty’s Treasury. Has that been accounted for in the departmental headroom left after the Chancellor’s disastrous 2024 Budget?

On the provision of reasonable notice of shifts, the Government estimate that business behaviour will change so that fewer shifts are cancelled, but the value of unavoidable cancellations could still be as high as £120 million a year, although that will depend on the detail of the policy further down the line. That is a fairly cavalier attitude to take towards business costs, particularly, as we discussed earlier, given the requirements of some shift work in the sectors mentioned in new clause 31.

Our new clause therefore attempts to encourage the Government to do the job properly and set out the costs to hospitality, retail and health and care sectors from clause 1 on the right to guaranteed hours; clause 2 on rights to reasonable notice for shifts; clause 3 on the right to payment for cancelled, moved and curtailed shifts; clause 4 on amendments relating to sections 1 to 3; clause 5 on the repeal of the Workers (Predictable Terms and Conditions) Act 2023; and clause 6 on exclusivity terms in zero-hours arrangements. Given that so much of this policy is still to be determined by regulations, we do not think it unreasonable that this assessment should take place before the relevant clauses of the Bill can be commenced.

[Justin Madders]

As the shadow Minister has identified, his new clause 31 seeks to require the Government to publish an assessment of the impact on specific sectors of the economy of the Bill’s provisions on zero-hours workers in clauses 1 to 6, and to lay the assessment before Parliament within six months of the passage of the Bill. Amendments 153 and 154 seek to ensure that the proposed new impact assessment requirement comes into force on the day that the Bill is passed, and that the provisions in clauses 1 to 6 cannot be commenced until the impact assessment has been published.

I point out to the shadow Minister that we produced a set of impact assessments at Second Reading, which included analysis of the best available evidence on the specific sectors that he referred to. We recognise the importance of ensuring that the impacts of these policies on workers, businesses and the economy are considered, and that the analysis considers those potential impacts. We will refine our analysis of the impact over time, working closely with businesses, trade unions, academics and think-tanks, and continue to engage with the relevant sectors and Government Departments on these issues. We will publish enactment impact assessments in line with the requirements of the better regulation framework, which will account for ways in which the Bill has been amended in its passage through Parliament so as to change the impacts of the policy on businesses significantly. These will be published alongside the enacted legislation.

In addition, we are committed to consulting with businesses and workers ahead of setting out secondary legislation, which will be necessary to implement the provisions, and we will work with the sectors listed in the proposed new clause as part of that. We will publish further analysis alongside those consultations to meet our better regulation requirements. There is no need for the new clause—there will be many opportunities for further analysis and refinement before the commencement of the regulations—and I therefore urge the shadow Minister to withdraw it.

[Greg Smith]

I am grateful to the Minister for that response. I do not fully share his view of the world but, as he rightly says and similarly to the previous new clauses that we have proposed, we can come back to this on Report. For the time being, I beg to ask leave to withdraw the motion.

Clause, by leave, withdrawn.

Ordered, That further consideration be now adjourned. —(Anna McMorrin.)

Live Events Ticketing: Resale and Pricing Practices

Justin Madders Excerpts

Monday 13th January 2025 Written Statements

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Business and Trade (Justin Madders)]

The UK has a world-leading music and live events sector, which plays an important role in our national life and supports economic growth across the country. However, the Government are concerned that tickets for many live events have become inaccessible to fans due to highly inflated ticket prices on the resale market. In addition, new practices within the live events sector, such as dynamic pricing, are presenting challenges for fans when buying tickets, particularly around transparency.

We want to put fans first, ensure that they are treated fairly and, in so doing, support an economically successful live events sector.

To support these objectives, the Department for Business and Trade and the Department for Culture, Media and Sport have published a consultation on the resale of live events tickets and a call for evidence on pricing practices in the live events sector, which are available on www.gov.uk.

Consultation on the resale of live events tickets

The Government recognise that a well-functioning ticket resale market can play an important role: helping to redistribute tickets between genuine fans; and allowing those who cannot attend an event to give an opportunity to others to get a ticket, while recouping some or all of their costs. However, it appears that professional ticket touts are systematically buying up tickets on the primary market and then reselling them to fans at often hugely inflated prices, with none of the profits going back to the performer, venue or the live events sector more generally. To address these issues, the Government are seeking views on a range of possible options, including:

Limits on ticket resale, such as via a price cap, making it illegal for tickets to be resold at more than a certain percentage above the original price, and fixed limits on the number of tickets that a seller can resell;

Increasing the accountability of secondary ticketing platforms by placing a duty on them to ensure that information provided by sellers is accurate;

Supporting the enforcement of existing consumer protection laws by updating provisions in the Consumer Rights Act 2015 to make enforcement more efficient and effective, including a licensing regime focused on resale platforms; and

Encouraging industry-led actions to improve the transparency and accessibility of ticket sales, for example by phasing ticket distribution.

Call for evidence on pricing practices in the live events sector

The live events sector has adopted new approaches to selling tickets, including pricing strategies using new technologies. These practices are changing both how the system works and the experiences of fans when they purchase tickets. It is important that fans are treated fairly and openly with timely, transparent and accurate information being presented ahead of sales, particularly when demand is high.

The call for evidence is seeking views to determine if there is a case for future intervention, specifically examining:

How the ticketing market works in the UK, when and how tickets are sold using dynamic pricing, and other technologies used to sell tickets;

If and how consumers have been impaired by a lack of transparency, for example the transparency and timeliness of information provided to inform purchasing decisions, and the extent of hidden fees, tiered pricing or pressure selling; and

Whether the current legal framework provides sufficient protection, including whether gaps exist or if there is potential for new harms arising from emerging trends.

Next steps

The consultation and call for evidence will be open for 12 weeks. We encourage all interested stakeholders, including fans, ticketing platforms and the wider live events sector, to respond.

I am placing a copy of the consultation and the call for evidence in the Libraries of both Houses.

[HCWS359]

Draft Registrar (Identity Verification and Authorised Corporate Service Providers) Regulations 2024 Draft Unique Identifiers (Application of Company Law) Regulations 2024

Justin Madders Excerpts

Monday 13th January 2025 General Committees

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Business and Trade (Justin Madders)]

I beg to move,

That the Committee has considered the draft Registrar (Identity Verification and Authorised Corporate Service Providers) Regulations 2024.

[The Chair]

With this it will be convenient to discuss the draft Unique Identifiers (Application of Company Law) Regulations 2024.

[Justin Madders]

It is a pleasure to see you in the Chair, Mr Stringer. The registrar regulations were laid before the House in draft on 22 May 2024, and the unique identifiers regulations were laid before the House in draft on 31 October 2024. They form part of a programme to implement the Economic Crime and Corporate Transparency Act 2023.

The 2023 Act is a landmark piece of legislation that delivers the most significant reforms to Companies House in more than 180 years, in order to protect the public from fraud and deliver real benefits to the business community. There has already been much progress since the Act was passed, including the introduction of stricter rules and checks to help Companies House to cleanse the register. The two sets of regulations before us will help to implement perhaps the most important changes to the UK’s company registration framework in the Act, requiring identity verification for those setting up, running and controlling companies. The 2023 Act amended the Companies Act 2006 to establish two ways in which an individual can verify their identity: either directly with Companies House or via an authorised corporate service provider, which I will refer to as an ACSP. The providers must be supervised for anti-money laundering purposes and registered with Companies House.

I will set out specifically what the two instruments do. The draft Registrar (Identity Verification and Authorised Corporate Service Providers) Regulations 2024 set out the legal framework that underpins identity verification. The identity verification procedure will involve an individual delivering specific information to the registrar or to an ACSP, which must include their name, date of birth and any further information specified in the registrar’s rules, which are a form of tertiary legislation.

Given the technical and increasingly evolving mechanisms for identity verification, it would be inappropriate to list every single identity document that must be provided to the registrar or an ASCP, or every single step that an individual must take in the regulations. Instead, the registrar is enabled to specify the requirements in a more suitable form and adapt or tweak the detail quickly where necessary. Companies House has produced a draft version of the registrar’s rules—I hope that they are in the Committee Room for Members to see—which I hope will provide some examples of the kind of information that might be required from applicants. When the registrar or ACSP receives all the correct information from an applicant, they will grant the identity verification application if they are satisfied that the information provided is true. That is the broad legal process for identity verification.

In practice, Companies House will use the gov.uk One Login platform to deliver its identity verification service. One Login is a cross-government verification platform that enables users to have a single login and verified identity for multiple government services. An individual will create an account and can verify their identity using a range of evidence, such as a passport or driving licence, or through knowledge-based verification questions based on their credit record or banking information. The process also includes checks to ensure that the individual matches the picture on their photo ID. For most people completing the purely digital route, the process will take a matter of minutes. Individuals can also complete the process in person at a post office.

If an individual decides to verify via an ACSP, the ACSP must follow the legal procedure established in these regulations and in the registrar’s rules. Companies House will issue guidance to ACSPs to explain how the procedure should be applied in practice and what checks they must perform on the information received. That will ensure that both routes achieve the same level of assurance in identity verification. Once an ACSP verifies an applicant’s identity, it will deliver a verification statement to Companies House to confirm that it has followed the correct procedure. The verification statement will be published alongside the applicant’s appointments on the register to maximise transparency. Alongside this verification statement, ACSPs must give the registrar information about the evidence they relied on to verify an individual’s identity. That means that Companies House will not lose access to crucial identity data if someone uses an ACSP and will also be provided with an assurance that the identity checks have been completed correctly.

The regulations add other checks and balances to the ACSP regime. ACSPs will be required to maintain records relating to the identity verification for seven years from the date they determined the identity verification request. The registrar can suspend and de-authorise an ACSP if they do not consider it to be fit and proper to carry out the functions of an ACSP. Finally, the registrar can perform spot checks on ACSPs and ask them to provide information about their identity verification obligations. All those provisions combined ensure that Companies House has the tools at its disposal to ensure that the ACSP regime is as effective and robust as possible.

I now turn briefly to the second set of regulations, the draft Unique Identifiers (Application of Company Law) Regulations 2024. These are technical and apply provisions on unique identifiers contained in the Registrar (Identity Verification and Authorised Corporate Service Providers) Regulations 2024 to other entities. A key mechanism underpinning the operation of identity verification is the use of a unique identifier or personal code, which we use to identify individuals who have had their identity verified, as well as registered ACSPs.

The first set of regulations we covered will enable allocation of unique identifiers to individuals associated with companies. These regulations give the registrar the power to allocate unique identifiers to ACSPs and individuals associated with other entities, namely limited partnerships, limited liability partnerships, companies authorised to register, unregistered companies, and Scottish qualifying partnerships. Identity verification requirements will eventually apply to other entities registered at Companies House, so it is necessary that we make these regulations relating to unique identifiers to ensure these requirements can operate in practice.

Finally, I want to update the Committee on the timings of identity verification. Companies House published its outline transition plan last October, which confirmed that it aims to start requiring identity verification from autumn of this year. In a few weeks, ACSPs will be able to register and individuals will be able to voluntarily verify their identity with Companies House, giving people lots of time to complete the process before legal requirements actually start.

--- Later in debate ---

[Justin Madders]

I am pleased to hear that the shadow Minister has already started using the acronym ACSP, which is very encouraging—I am sure it will enter the vernacular shortly.

In terms of the cost to businesses of individual identity verification, it will be free to businesses to log in. It is estimated that on average it will cost £10.50 to verify an individual’s identity and £2.10 to confirm verification for each appointment held. It is estimated in the impact assessment that the annual cost to UK businesses will be about £19.5 million in ongoing operational expenses. It should be said that we believe that this measure will be of benefit to legitimate businesses, enabling them to move forward with confidence that they are who they say they are. Of course, the companies register is estimated to be worth up to £3 billion to the UK economy each year, due to the amount of information that is available free to the public.

The hon. Gentleman also asked about the cost to Companies House. He will be aware that incorporation fees have been increased in recent times. Indeed, an economic crime levy has also been apportioned to Companies House, to recognise the fact that there are substantial new demands on it, and there are not substantial numbers of new staff that have been recruited to undertake these activities. However, there is no intention to increase the cost to the Treasury; rather, it is expected that these costs will be generally recovered through Companies House activities.

My understanding is that the second set of regulations would not have attracted an impact assessment due to the estimated cost to individual businesses. I will double-check that point for the hon. Gentleman and write to him if that proves to be incorrect, but I think it is normally the case that there is a £5 million floor on impact assessments, and my understanding is that these regulations did not exceed that; therefore, no impact assessment was required. On that note, I thank hon. Members for their time, and I commend the regulations to the Committee.

Question put and agreed to.

DRAFT UNIQUE IDENTTIFIERS (APPLICATION OF COMPANY LAW) REGULATIONS 2024

Resolved,

That the Committee has considered the draft Unique Identifiers (Application of Company Law) Regulations 2024.—(Justin Madders.)

Employment Rights Bill (Seventeenth sitting)

Justin Madders Excerpts

Committee stage
Thursday 9th January 2025 Public Bill Committees

[The Chair]

Thank you, Sir Ashley, for giving notice of that point of order. The issue you have raised is obviously on the record. It will be raised with the Scrutiny Unit and there will be a report back to the Committee on the outcome of that inquiry.

Clause 72

Enforcement of labour market legislation by Secretary of State

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Business and Trade (Justin Madders)]

I beg to move amendment 84, in clause 72, page 79, line 15, at end insert—

“(4A) Accordingly, in the case of the exercise by an enforcement officer of an enforcement function of the Secretary of State, any reference in an enactment to the Secretary of State in connection with that function is to be read as, or as including, a reference to that officer or any other enforcement officer.”

This amendment ensures that, where an enforcement officer is exercising an enforcement function of the Secretary of State by virtue of clause 72(4), references in legislation to the Secretary of State in connection with that function will include references to enforcement officers, so that the legislation will apply in relation to the enforcement officer as it would apply to the Secretary of State if the Secretary of State were exercising the function.

It is a pleasure to see you in the Chair this morning, Mr Mundell. I start by making the customary reference to my declaration in the Register of Members’ Financial Interests.

Clause 72 is the first in relation to the fair work agency, and it is one of the building blocks of the agency. I will explain the main elements of the clause, as that will help us to understand the amendment. The clause confers an overarching function on the Secretary of State to enforce certain legislation set out in part 1 of schedule 4, which the clause introduces. The clause provides flexibility for the Secretary of State in how to deliver that overarching enforcement function. It enables them to appoint enforcement officers to carry out the function on their behalf, and it provides that enforcement officers will be able to exercise any of the enforcement functions of the Secretary of State and will have the enforcement powers conferred on them as set out in the terms of their appointment by the Secretary of State.

As I said, the Secretary of State has the function of enforcing the legislation set out in part 1 of schedule 4. The legislation contains references to the Secretary of State having functions and powers in connection with the enforcement of the rights set out in that legislation. It is important that those references can be read as references to the enforcement officers the Secretary of State appoints to act on their behalf; otherwise, enforcement officers may not be able to properly exercise the enforcement functions of the Secretary of State. That would make their appointment, and potentially their enforcement activity, less effective.

Government amendment 84 inserts a new subsection after clause 72(4) to ensure that references to the Secretary of State are read as references to enforcement officers where necessary. The practical effect is that the legislation will apply to enforcement officers as it would to the Secretary of State. This is a technical change, but I hope that Members will see that it is necessary.

[Greg Smith (Mid Buckinghamshire) (Con)]

It is a pleasure to see you in the Chair once more, Mr Mundell.

Government amendment 84 looks to us like a drafting correction. We will not rehearse the arguments we have had so many times in the Committee about drafting corrections, but I would be grateful if the Minister could confirm whether the powers in the Bill, which are directly related to the amendment, for enforcement officers to enter and search business premises are any wider in scope than current enforcement powers and, if so, how and why.

[Justin Madders]

I am grateful to the shadow Minister for not rehearsing the arguments, as we may end up having them every five minutes, given the number of technical amendments we will deal with today. He raises an important question about the enforcement powers and powers of entry. There are a number of clauses that deal with that. My initial understanding is that, generally speaking, we are not seeking to widen the remit of current enforcement powers. I will endeavour to write to him if there are any changes or exceptions to that. It may be something that becomes apparent when we debate the clauses in question.

Amendment 84 agreed to.

Question proposed, That the clause, as amended, stand part of the Bill.

[Justin Madders]

Clause 72 is important, as it sets out the principles of a major part of the Bill. The UK’s labour market enforcement system is fragmented. The enforcement of core rights such as the minimum wage, domestic agency regulations and the gangmasters licensing scheme is split between three different agencies. That often means that workers do not know where to go when they think they might not have received what they are due. That makes enforcement ineffective. It is not fair for workers or businesses.

Clause 72 is a vital building block in the creation of the fair work agency. It is worth noting from the outset that the FWA will be established as an executive agency of the Department for Business and Trade, which means that it will not have its own distinct identity in legislation. The Bill therefore vests responsibility for enforcement of labour market legislation in the Secretary of State. The Secretary of State intends to discharge those responsibilities through the fair work agency, which will be created in administrative documents.

Clause 72(1) places responsibility for enforcing a set list of labour market legislation on the Secretary of State and introduces part 1 of schedule 4, which sets out the list of relevant labour market legislation that the Secretary of State will be responsible for enforcing. There is a general power in clause 118(3) to make regulations that commence different aspects of the Bill at different points. Exactly when the Secretary of State will take on responsibility for enforcement will depend on the detail of those commencement regulations. However, creating the fair work agency is about more than simply moving things around; the agency will also take on the ability to enforce workers’ right to paid holiday and their entitlement to statutory sick pay.

Clause 72(2) explains that part 5 of the Bill confers powers on the Secretary of State and enforcement officers to carry out the purpose of enforcing the labour market legislation in schedule 4. Clause 72(3) makes it clear that an enforcement officer includes anyone whom the Secretary of State has appointed to carry out enforcement of that legislation on his behalf, and clause 72(5) clarifies that enforcement officers appointed by the Secretary of State have only the powers conferred on them when they are appointed. Practically speaking, that means that whether the Secretary of State or an enforcement officer is carrying out this work, they will have the enforcement and investigatory powers they need to do the job effectively. Those powers are set out in later clauses.

Clause 72(5) is also a particularly important safeguard. As I have already said, the responsibility for enforcing legislation and the powers to carry it out will be vested in the Secretary of State, and the Secretary of State will then confer them on the enforcement officers he appoints. However, the FWA’s remit will also include the serious issue of modern slavery and labour abuse, for which certain specially trained enforcement officers will have extensive police-style powers, as set out in section 114B of the Police and Criminal Evidence Act 1984. Certain officers in the Gangmasters and Labour Abuse Authority are trained to use those powers, which are subject to additional oversight, including by the Independent Office for Police Conduct. The powers should continue to be reserved for tackling the most serious issues handled by the FWA. That is why we have included clause 72(5), through which the Secretary of State will specify what powers enforcement officers will have access to when appointing them. We will ensure that powers are conferred only on officers who are sufficiently qualified to use them and who genuinely need them to do their job.

[Sir Ashley Fox]

The Minister is talking about granting officials of the state extensive powers currently reserved to police officers. Can he tell us how many additional officials will be granted those additional powers?

[Justin Madders]

What we are doing is transferring existing powers and responsibilities from the existing agency. There are no new police-style powers being created for these officers; it is simply a transfer over to the fair work agency.

Clause 72 is key to delivering the much-needed upgrade to the enforcement of workers’ rights so that it is more effective and fair for workers and businesses. It brings together enforcement functions currently split between several different enforcement agencies and gives the fair work agency the flexibility to respond to a rapidly changing labour market. I commend the clause to the Committee.

[Greg Smith]

A lot of the detail is in the clauses that follow this one; as the Minister said, this is very much a building-block clause. Although I totally understand and appreciate the rationale for taking enforcement powers that are currently fragmented across multiple different agencies and consolidating them into one, the devil is always in the detail.

Although it might seem sensible to consolidate the powers that are currently so spread out into one agency, this is very much a centralisation of power. The crux of clause 72 is about directly providing the Secretary of State with the overall function of enforcing labour market legislation. Whenever I see such provisions in any legislation, I cannot help but be reminded of the late, great President Reagan’s famous quote about the nine most terrifying words in the English language:

“I’m from the Government, and I’m here to help.”

As my hon. Friend the Member for Bridgwater suggested in his intervention on the Minister, the serious detail is about the practical workings of the fair work agency as it is set up. What will be the total number of enforcement officers, employees and ancillary staff required—admittedly, some will be brought across from other agencies—to form it? What will be the cost to the taxpayer of putting that together? How many people are we actually talking about? I think that, as opposed to the powers that they will hold, was the crux of my hon. Friend’s intervention.

As I said, we accept the rationale for bringing these powers together under one agency, but whenever such powers are granted to a Secretary of State, no matter what the field, there is always uncertainty and scope for never-ending expansion of the new agency, and of the size of the state, to do what is, in many cases, important enforcement work—I do not doubt that. Given the presumption that the Bill will become an Act of Parliament and that the agency will be set up in the way envisaged in clause 72, it would be good to have clarity about the plan for just how big the agency will be and whether the Secretary of State will put any cap on that from the get-go. How far does the Minister envisage the agency going?

--- Later in debate ---

[Nick Timothy (West Suffolk) (Con)]

I want to add my support in principle for the idea of a single labour market regulator. I have written about that in the past in different ways and can claim a small amount of credit for the commissioning of the Taylor review into the gig economy when I was working in 10 Downing Street. These issues are very important to me. Hopefully that will reassure the Minister and Labour Members of my cross-party credentials when that might be necessary.

We can all think of ways in which different kinds of labour market exploitation—non-payment of the national minimum wage or living wage; breaches of terms and conditions, health and safety or holiday rights; and illegal working, among many other examples—can be difficult to address if the laws are tough but the enforcement is poor. Those on both sides of the Committee can agree on that.

I want to add to the questions that have already been raised. I think the Minister said that the idea is that no additional powers will be granted and that this is just a consolidation. My understanding is that the fair work agency will not be a single monolithic agency; it is more about different strands of work being brought under a single leadership. If that is the case, presumably the different agencies that exist will do so until this legal change comes into effect. Presumably, the powers of the officers in each of those agencies differ in certain ways. Will that remain the case under the one body, or will there be interoperability and transfer of officers within the different sections under the single regulator? Or is the idea that the officers across those different entities will all assume the maximum powers that exist at the moment so that they can operate across all the different responsibilities of the new agency? I think that would still mean a net increase in powers across those people. What work has been done in the Department to give us an idea of the numbers we are talking about? If the Minister could answer that and then write to us with some more detail and statistics, I would be grateful.

[Justin Madders]

It is pleasing to hear generally broad support for this measure. As my hon. Friend the Member for Birmingham Northfield pointed out, and as the hon. Member for West Suffolk will know better than most, this was previously a Conservative party manifesto commitment, and we are pleased to be able to move it forward.

Some detailed operational questions were asked. At this stage, how the agency will work in practice is still being fleshed out. The current understanding in the impact assessment is that this is about the consolidation of existing resources and having a single point of leadership. Members will recall that, in her evidence to the Committee, Margaret Beels, the Director of Labour Market Enforcement, talked about how her role would be much easier if she were able to combine the powers of different agencies.

The shadow Minister asked whether we will require extra staff. That will be part of discussions with the Treasury. As he will know, there is a spending review on the horizon and Departments have been asked to look at savings. Clearly, we hope that the combining of resources will lead to some efficiencies, but there is certainly a view from a number of stakeholders that enforcement is not at the level it ought to be—

[Greg Smith]

I fully acknowledge and appreciate the Minister’s point about negotiation with the Treasury, but even if we take it as read that it is right to bring powers into a single enforcement agency, there is always a cost to creating anything new, even if it is a consolidation. Surely, the Department for Business and Trade has a cost for that. There is legislation live, in front of us right now, that seeks to create the agency, so surely he must know the broad cost of setting it up and consolidating those powers.

[Justin Madders]

Yes, the impact assessment sets out the one-off set-up costs. I am sure the shadow Minister can spend the lunch break looking at the detail. In terms of the current enforcement framework, as I say, there is a view that more needs to be done. Of course, we will be adding holiday pay and social security to that, and there is a power to add further areas. We know that generally, when resources are combined, we can deliver more—the sum is greater than the parts.

The Liberal Democrat spokesperson, the hon. Member for Torbay, asked about the critical friend. This Government are always ready to have critical friends—more on the “friend” side than the “critical” side. We will come shortly to a clause about an advisory board, which will have a broad range of stakeholders able to take that role.

[Greg Smith]

Does the Minister not agree that for any power held by any Secretary of State in any Department, the critical friend is a very simple concept? It is called Parliament—it is all of us.

[Justin Madders]

Indeed it is, and the usual parliamentary scrutiny will apply, but I was talking specifically about the role of the fair work agency. There will be that role, and no doubt as more detail emerges there will be more parliamentary opportunities to talk about the role and functions of the agency.

My hon. Friends the Members for Worsley and Eccles and for Birmingham Northfield talked about the broad support for the agency’s establishment, as indeed did the hon. Member for West Suffolk. I have a list of all the supportive witnesses at the oral evidence sessions, and it is a broad and impressive cast. It includes the CBI, the British Chambers of Commerce, the British Retail Consortium, the Chartered Institute of Personnel and Development, the Recruitment and Employment Confederation, the Food and Drink Federation, the Co-op, Margaret Beels, and of course all the trade unions. There is support across the board for this single enforcement body.

[Mr Peter Bedford (Mid Leicestershire) (Con)]

It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Mr Mundell. There are a few points about the creation of the agency that I would like the Minister to address. I am broadly supportive of synergies and of the rationalisation of public bodies, particularly to ensure that the taxpayer is getting value for money, but have the Government considered the cost of this new body and whether it will result in savings for the taxpayer? Will they consider locating it outside London so that it is more broadly reflective of the country at large?

[Justin Madders]

As a regional MP—a north-west Member—I am always looking to see where we can get more Government agencies out into the rest of the country. It is probably too early to say, but those kinds of decisions are being looked at.

At the moment, His Majesty’s Revenue and Customs deals with minimum wage enforcement. Moving such a specific task across to another body will take some time, so there may well be a period during which HMRC continues to undertake that work, albeit that it is within the remit of the fair work agency. Such operational details will be discussed and dealt with in due course.

The hon. Member for West Suffolk made a point about the powers of individual officers. Initially, we envisage that officers will move into, effectively, their existing roles. It will be a matter for operational consideration in due course whether it is beneficial to extend people’s remits. It will not be required of anyone without sufficient training and safeguards in place, but as the agency develops, it may well be considered advantageous to broaden the role of enforcement officers. One of the rationales for the body is that there are often several aspects to an employer’s breach of obligations, so we want the fair work agency to be able to tackle these things as a whole. However, that is an operational matter that will be dealt with in due course. I commend the clause to the Committee.

Question put and agreed to.

Clause 72, as amended, accordingly ordered to stand part of the Bill.

Schedule 4

Legislation subject to enforcement under part 5

[Justin Madders]

I beg to move amendment 169, in schedule 4, page 127, line 29, leave out paragraph 3 and insert—

“3 Section 151(1) of the Social Security Contributions and Benefits Act 1992 (employer’s liability to pay statutory sick pay).

3A Regulations under section 153(5)(b) of that Act (requirement to provide statement about entitlement).”

This amendment clarifies the specific obligations relating to the payment of statutory sick pay which will be enforceable under Part 5 of the Bill.

[The Chair]

With this it will be convenient to discuss Government amendment 170.

[Justin Madders]

As we have discussed, the current enforcement system for workers’ rights is fragmented. By creating the fair work agency, we intend to bring enforcement into one place. We have been clear that we also want the fair work agency to enforce individual rights to statutory sick pay, because we want to upgrade the enforcement of workers’ rights and stand up for the most vulnerable in our workforce, including those who are unable to work owing to sickness. That is why part 1 of schedule 4 to the Bill, as introduced on 10 October 2024, includes part 11 of the Social Security Contributions and Benefits Act 1992—one of the main pieces of legislation setting out the statutory sick pay regime—in the body of relevant labour market legislation. Government amendment 169 further clarifies the obligations concerning the payment of statutory sick pay under the Act and regulations made under it, which will be enforceable under part 5 of the Bill.

However, there is a wider body of statutory sick pay legislation containing details about the entitlements bestowed on workers and the duties of employers. After further work, we noted that some of those provisions needed to be included under the fair work agency. That led us to amendment 170, which will add the following legislation to part 1 of schedule 4: regulations made under section 5 of the Social Security Administration Act 1992, in so far as they relate to statutory sick pay, which deal with claims for, and payment of, benefits; section 14(3) of the Act, which establishes the duty on employers to provide employees with certain information about their sick pay entitlement; and regulations made under section 130 of the Act, in so far as they relate to statutory sick pay. Those provisions will be considered relevant labour market legislation, which makes them part of the Secretary State’s enforcement function. We will proceed with them once the fair work agency is ready to enforce them effectively. Amendments 169 and 170 are therefore necessary for the fair work agency to deliver its remit on statutory sick pay.

[Greg Smith]

Amendment 169 clarifies the specific obligations relating to the payment of statutory sick pay that are enforceable under part 5. Similarly, amendment 170 will ensure that those additional obligations relating to statutory sick pay that are imposed on employers by the Social Security Administration Act 1992 are enforceable under part 5. This goes back to our old friend, drafting errors being corrected that should really have been sorted out before the Bill was presented to Parliament in the first place.

[Justin Madders]

We will probably have this conversation a number of times. It is probably a little harsh to say that this was an error, but it would be fair to say that, given the complexity of social security legislation, not every provision was identified when the Bill was first introduced.

Amendment 169 agreed to.

Amendment made: 170, in schedule 4, page 127, line 30, at end insert—

“Social Security Administration Act 1992

3B Regulations under section 5 of the Social Security Administration Act 1992 (regulations about claims for and payments of benefit), so far as relating to statutory sick pay.

3C Section 14(3) of that Act (duty of employers to provide certain information to employees in relation to statutory sick pay).

3D Regulations under section 130 of that Act (duties of employers), so far as relating to statutory sick pay.”—(Justin Madders.)

This amendment ensures that additional obligations relating to statutory sick pay that are imposed on employers by the Social Security Administration Act 1992 are enforceable under Part 5 of the Bill.

--- Later in debate ---

[Greg Smith]

I rise to speak to amendments 117, 118 and 119 and new clause 20, which stand in my name and in the name of my hon. Friends on the Committee. I make it clear that they are probing amendments; it will become clear over the next couple of minutes why we seek to probe the Government on the issue.

The amendments would repeal the working time directive within one year of the Bill’s coming into force. Our reason for tabling them is not that we intend to abolish entitlement to holidays, lunch breaks and so on—far from it, and nobody is suggesting that. However, the working time directive has had a troubled history. One example is the difficulties that occurred between the Commission and member states when the Court of Justice of the European Union ruled that employers—all of them public health and emergency services—did not calculate time spent on call as working time, when they should have done. The CJEU consistently declared that practice incompatible with the directive, arguing that inactive time spent at the disposal of the employer must be counted in its entirety as working time. Then, in 2019, the Court ruled:

“Member States must require employers to set up an objective, reliable and accessible system enabling the duration of time worked each day by each worker to be measured.”

The result of that judgment was never formally brought into British law, but as a result of the European Union (Withdrawal) Act 2018, it became part of retained EU law.

Last year, the Conservative Government legislated to clarify that businesses do not have to keep a record of the daily working hours of their workers if they are able to demonstrate compliance without doing so; to amend the WTR so that irregular hours and part-year workers’ annual leave entitlement is pro-rated to the hours that they work; to introduce an accrual method for calculating holiday entitlement for certain workers; to revoke the covid regulations—it seems odd that we are still saying that—and to introduce rolled-up holiday pay for irregular hours and part-year workers. Consultation requirements under the Transfer of Undertakings (Protection of Employment) Regulations 2006 to allow smaller businesses to consult directly with employees would be another measure. That is just the start of how it might be possible to simplify the working time directive. I would be grateful to hear the Minister’s thoughts on how well the working time regulations are working, and on whether any further changes might be made for the benefit of businesses to enable growth in this country.

[Justin Madders]

The working time regulations have had a relatively long history in our legal framework. They provide vital rights: a maximum working week of 48 hours, rest breaks of 20 minutes every six hours, rest periods of 11 hours each day and at least 24 hours each week, and 28 days of annual leave each year. The regulations implement the EU working time directive; the then Government deliberately designed them to provide maximum flexibility for both employers and workers. For example, workers can choose to opt out in writing from the 48-hour week maximum. We believe that the regulations have benefited millions of workers and their families over the years. They afford workers a better balance between work and other responsibilities, as well as improvements in health and wellbeing.

A 2014 review by the previous Government of the impact of the working time regulations on the UK labour market found that since 1998 there had been a decline in long-hours working in the UK and a general trend towards shorter working hours, which is probably not a surprise. The findings also suggested that the impact of the regulations was mainly through increased employment of workers doing shorter working weeks, rather than through a reduction in total hours worked. Annual leave entitlements have increased since the introduction of the working time regulations; many workers now enjoy a more generous leave entitlement than is prescribed by law.

Limitations on working hours and entitlement to a minimum number of days’ holiday can contribute to improvements in health and safety. Most employers accept that a minimum holiday entitlement contributes to physical and psychological wellbeing. Reductions in stress and fatigue caused by excess hours can provide many benefits, including less pressure on health services and better performance at work, with fewer accidents. By establishing minimum standards, the working time regulations also support a level playing field that discourages competition that relies on poor working conditions and a race to the bottom.

New clause 20 would revoke the Merchant Shipping (Maritime Labour Convention) (Hours of Work) Regulations 2018, which provide for adequate rest for seafarers and support the management of onboard fatigue and the wellbeing of seafarers. Revoking the regulations would negatively affect the ability of the Maritime and Coastguard Agency to enforce safe and healthy working conditions for seafarers.

The new clause would also revoke the Fishing Vessels (Working Time: Sea-fishermen) Regulations 2004, which require the UK to implement the International Labour Organisation’s work in fishing convention, which underpins the safe operation of vessels. Fishing is one of the most dangerous sectors in the UK, with 50 injuries per 100,000 workers compared with a UK average of 0.4. We believe that the 2004 regulations are critical to ensuring that workers take the appropriate hours of rest to prevent fatigue-related incidents.

The new clause would also revoke the Merchant Shipping (Working Time: Inland Waterways) Regulations 2003. The Maritime and Coastguard Agency is in the process of conducting a post-implementation review of those regulations. The initial responses to the consultation have indicated a generally positive view from stakeholders.

The new clause would also revoke the Cross-border Railway Services (Working Time) Regulations 2008, which provide enhanced rights and worker protections for those engaged in cross-border rail services, such as train crew for Eurostar services through the channel tunnel. The revocation of the regulations would erode those enhanced protections.

The Government believe that the minimum standards in the Working Time Regulations 1998 and other sector-specific working time regulations have supported millions of workers and their families by enabling them to better balance work and other responsibilities. The Government have no plans to revoke the working time regulations or any of the other sector-specific regulations.

I understand what the shadow Minister says about whether we consider the regulations to be beneficial to businesses, but he will know that there was ample time under his Government to undertake those reviews. Indeed, one was undertaken just over a decade ago, as I said. We have no plans to erode workers’ rights in this area; indeed, one of the fair work agency’s main functions will be to enforce rights to holiday pay, which evidence to the Committee suggests are not being enforced properly.

The shadow Minister says that he has no intention of revoking the working time regulations and that his amendment is probing, but I can only speak to what is before the Committee. If he had tabled an amendment seeking a review of the operation of the working time regulations, that might have been more appropriate in the circumstances. This feels to me like a dog-whistle amendment, so I am pleased to hear that he will not be pressing it.

[Greg Smith]

I am always pleased to delight the Minister in these debates. It was a probing amendment, and I can confirm that we will not be pressing amendments 117 to 119 or new clause 20 to a Division. However, I will briefly comment on the Minister’s response. I entirely respect him for it, but it was a full-throated defence of the status quo.

Something that goes deep within my view of politics, of government and of public administration is there is always room for improvement in pretty much everything. I say that as much about measures passed by previous Conservative Governments as about those passed by current or past Labour Governments. I refuse to accept that something is as good as it possibly can be and is working as well as it possibly can in the interests of businesses and workers alike. There is some disappointment from the official Opposition that the Government do not seem to want to look again.

[Justin Madders]

Does the shadow Minister not accept that his party undertook this exercise, which is why regulations were introduced last year to amend the working time regulations?

[Greg Smith]

I fully and totally accept that, but it is our job as the official Opposition, here and now in January 2025, to press the current Government on further measures that could be taken to work in the interests of everybody in our country—workers and businesses alike. Perhaps I accept the Minister’s point; perhaps we could have tabled an amendment to call for a review. Who knows? Perhaps on Report we might. But the fundamental position that I come back to is one that does not just accept the status quo, but is always challenging, always reviewing and always seeking to make things better in the interests of everyone.

When the Minister goes back to the Department and prepares for the remaining stages of the Bill in the main Chamber and in the other place, may I gently urge him to consider in the round, with the Opposition’s support, whether there are tyres to be kicked and measures to be improved in the operation of the working time directive? May I also urge him to ensure—now that we are a sovereign country once more, having left the European Union—that this Parliament can make improvements should it so wish? I beg to ask leave to withdraw the amendment.

Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.

[Justin Madders]

I beg to move amendment 85, in schedule 4, page 128, line 13, at end insert—

“( ) regulations 13 to 15E (entitlement to annual leave, etc);”

This amendment would enable the Secretary of State to enforce the entitlements to annual leave conferred by the Working Time Regulations 1998.

Government amendment 85 will add to schedule 4 the additional holiday pay and entitlement regulations: regulations 13, 13A, 14, 15, 15A, 15B, 15C, 15D and 15E of the Working Time Regulations 1998. It will enable the fair work agency to take enforcement action in relation to incorrect payment or non-payment of a worker’s holiday pay and incorrect payment or non-payment in lieu of annual leave entitlement, ensuring that a wider range of complaints can be dealt with more effectively. I commend it to the Committee.

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[The Chair]

With this it will be convenient to discuss new clause 23—Review of the effectiveness of enforcement of labour market legislation—

“(1) The Secretary of State must establish an independent review providing for—

(a) an assessment of the effectiveness of enforcement of, and compliance with, relevant labour market legislation requirements as specified in Part 1 of Schedule 4 of this Act;

(b) an assessment of the performance and effectiveness of following bodies in enforcing labour market legislation—

(i) Gangmasters and Labour Abuse Authority;

(ii) Employment Agencies Standards Inspectorate;

(iii) His Majesty’s Revenue and Customs; and

(iv) Health and Safety Executive; and

(c) recommendations on strengthening labour market legislation enforcement.

(2) The Secretary of State must lay before Parliament a report of the review in subsection (1) not more than 18 months after the day on which this Act is passed and before a new single labour market enforcement body is established.”

This new clause would require the Secretary of State to establish a review of enforcement of labour market legislation and to report findings to Parliament before a new labour market enforcement body is established.

[Justin Madders]

The UK’s labour market enforcement system is fragmented, as we know. The enforcement of core rights such as the minimum wage, the domestic agency regulations and the gangmaster licensing scheme is split between three different agencies, so workers often do not know where to go when they think they might not have received what they are due. That makes enforcement ineffective.

Clause 72 is a vital building block of the fair work agency. Clause 72(1) will place on the Secretary of State a responsibility to enforce a set list of labour market legislation. It introduces part 1 of schedule 4, which sets out the list of relevant labour market legislation that the Secretary of State will be responsible for enforcing— the national minimum wage, domestic agency regulations, the gangmasters licensing scheme, parts 1 and 2 of the Modern Slavery Act 2015 and the administration of the unpaid employment tribunal award penalty scheme.

Creating the fair work agency is about more than simply moving things around. That is why we have also taken steps to enforce workers’ rights to paid holiday and statutory sick pay. We tabled two sets of amendments to part 1 of schedule 4 to ensure that the fair work agency delivers the policy intent in relation to enforcing holiday pay and statutory sick pay. As we have discussed, our amendment on holiday pay will ensure that the FWA can take action in relation to incorrect payment or non-payment of a worker’s holiday pay and incorrect payment or non-payment in lieu of annual leave entitlement; our amendment on statutory sick pay will ensure that all relevant statutory sick pay provisions that contain entitlements for workers or impose duties on employers are in scope of enforcement.

Part 2 of schedule 4 grants the Secretary of State a delegated power to make affirmative regulations to add new legislation to part 1 of the schedule. The Secretary of State can use the power to bring in scope legislation that relates to the rights of employees and workers, the treatment of employees and workers and requirements on employers, and legislation on trade unions and labour relations. It is a broad power but a necessary one: if we are to deliver the policy intent of genuinely upgrading enforcement, the fair work agency needs to be able to respond to changes in the labour market. We believe that a power to make affirmative regulations, which Parliament will of course have to approve, will ensure proper parliamentary scrutiny for any further changes.

New clause 23 is well intentioned, but it is unnecessary and would be counterproductive. It would impose a lengthy and redundant review process that largely duplicated the statutory duties that are already undertaken by the director of labour market enforcement. She already oversees the enforcement landscape and provides an annual strategy and annual report on the effectiveness of the activities of the bodies that will make up the fair work agency. New clause 23 would do nothing to add to those mechanisms. In fact, it would slow down the creation of the fair work agency.

I turn to clause 75—

[The Chair]

We will come to that later.

[Justin Madders]

Okay. I have nothing further to say, except that the shadow Minister’s new clause 23 is a duplication of existing requirements that would add nothing to the process.

[Greg Smith]

I hear what the Minister says about slowing things down, but it would be remiss of me not to comment that if the Government had perhaps taken their time a bit on the drafting of the Bill, we would not be spending so much time in this Committee considering the absolute deluge of Government amendments that tidy things up that should have been right in the first place. Sometimes it is best not to rush things. Sometimes it is better not to dive in head first and just go for the first thing available, but to be cautious, to review and to fully understand all the implications that new legislation such as this will have in the real world.

That is what new clause 23, which stands in my name and those of my hon. Friends, seeks to double-check. It seeks to ensure that the Government are getting this right—not in our interests or those of anyone in the House of Commons, but in the interests of businesses and workers in the real world, trying to get on with their daily lives, get their jobs done and get their businesses growing and providing the growth and prosperity that we all want to see in the country.

As I have said previously, we do not have a problem in principle with the establishment of a new body to oversee the enforcement of labour market legislation. I have made that clear, and hon. Friends who have spoken have made it crystal clear. But we also made a challenge in the previous debate, and that is what new clause 23 is all about. It is about ensuring that we fully understand the scope, cost and effectiveness of this new body.

Any new body, be it a Government body or in the private sector—although the creation of new bodies in the public sector tends to be slower and often cost more than the private sector would manage—will take time and resources, and we would like to be reassured that this is a good use of time and resources. I repeat that our instinct is that it probably is. Our instinct is that it does seem to make sense, but we can never rely on instinct or on that which might look good on paper as the absolute cast-iron test. It is about the real evidence.

--- Later in debate ---

[Sir Ashley Fox]

I want to speak in support of new clause 23 and to ask the Minister whether he is familiar with Parkinson’s law. It states that the number of workers in any public administration will tend to grow over time, regardless of the quantity of work done. The corollary is that work expands to fill the time available for its completion.

Although Conservative Members are in favour of the creation of the fair work agency, there is a risk that, over time, it will seek to have more staff and more power, will consume a great deal more of taxpayers’ money and resources, and will impose more on employers’ time, without great result. That is why a review is necessary. We want to ensure that any new authority is lean and efficient. We also want the Government to take the same approach to regulations.

Unfortunately, the Bill is a hefty document. It will impose £5 billion-worth of costs on employers, which will probably result in fewer people being employed, higher inflation and lower growth. It is therefore perfectly reasonable for the Opposition to ask the Government to reflect after 18 months and ascertain whether they can find anything in this weighty tome that they could do better or more efficiently.

The working time directive is immensely complicated and imposes burdensome record keeping on employers. In the past, it has resulted in retained firefighters in rural areas having to count the time when they sit at home, not doing anything, as working time. It has been a difficult and troublesome measure, and perhaps my party should have done more to simplify it when we were in office, but that is not an excuse for the Government to say, “Because you didn’t do enough, we intend to do nothing.” It is reasonable for us to ask the Government, at the end of 18 months, to take another look and see whether they can do anything to reduce the burden on businesses.

[Justin Madders]

I am beginning to wonder whether the Opposition’s support for the fair work agency is as strong as I thought. They now appear to want to make sure that creating it is the right thing do, despite its featuring regularly in Conservative manifestos and despite the support of the breadth of stakeholders who gave evidence to the Committee. The current Director of Labour Market Enforcement made it clear in her evidence to the Committee that the creation of the fair work agency would make her role much easier and more effective. She spoke about the recommendations in her most recent report:

“The ones that relate to having a better joined-up approach, to greater efficiency and to better sharing of information among bodies are the things that I think the fair work agency will do a lot better.” ––[Official Report, Employment Rights Public Bill Committee, 28 November 2024; c. 153, Q159.]

I think that almost half of the recommendations from her most recent report contained an element of that.

--- Later in debate ---

[The Chair]

With this it will be convenient to discuss clause 74 stand part.

[Justin Madders]

Clause 73 specifies which functions are considered enforcement functions of the Secretary of State for the purposes of part 5 of the Bill. It defines enforcement functions widely and then carves out certain functions that are not enforcement functions.

Clause 73(1) specifies that the enforcement functions of the Secretary of State include the following: any functions granted under part 5 of the Bill; functions in the relevant labour market legislation that they are responsible for enforcing; and any other functions that they perform to support enforcing labour market legislation.

Clause 73(2) goes on to set out exceptions. It lists specific functions that are not enforcement functions for the purposes of part 5 of the Bill. These are generally functions that relate to the arrangements for state enforcement of labour market legislation, and the overall governance of the fair work agency. These overarching governance functions include: appointing officers under clause 72; delegating functions under clause 74; setting up the advisory board under clause 75; publishing the annual reports and enforcement strategies under clauses 76 and 77; providing for transfer schemes to move staff into the Department under part 1 of schedule 7; and powers to make subordinate legislation.

The effect of clause 73 becomes clear when it is read in conjunction with clause 72. First, the enforcement functions that are listed in clause 73(1) can be performed by enforcement officers appointed under clause 72. Under clause 72(4), the powers of an enforcement officer include the power to exercise any enforcement function. Those powers can be limited further by the terms of the appointment of those officers.

Clause 74 gives the Secretary of State flexibility about how they carry out the functions of labour market enforcement. It provides the option to delegate functions to another public authority. Clause 74(1) gives the Secretary of State the power to make arrangements with the public authority so that it can exercise the delegable function. It also enables the Secretary of State to make arrangements to appoint a public authority’s staff as enforcement officers. The Secretary of State can delegate the enforcement functions listed in clause 73(1), all of which have been highlighted already. Those functions relate to arrangements for state enforcement of labour market legislation or the overall governance of the fair work agency. The Secretary State can also delegate powers relating to the licensing of gangmasters under sections 7 or 11 of the Gangmasters (Licensing) Act 2004. The arrangements the Secretary of State makes with public authorities can also include an agreement to make payments in respect of the performance of any function by either the public authority or their staff.

Clause 74(5) means that delegating an enforcement function does not strip the Secretary of State of responsibility or control in enforcing labour market legislation. The Secretary of State can still carry out functions even when they have arranged for another public authority to do that on their behalf.

The Bill is about bringing enforcement and employment legislation into one place in order to make enforcement more effective and efficient by ensuring the better use of resources. It is about creating the right powers to carry out investigations and take enforcement action where necessary. However, it does not set out a specific approach to implementing that more joined-up enforcement, because operational flexibility will be the key to the success of the fair work agency. The clause helps to provide that flexibility by enabling the Secretary of State to delegate certain functions to other public authorities or to make arrangements for staff of other bodies to be appointed as enforcement officers. Both clauses are integral to the effective functioning of the fair work agency in the future.

[Greg Smith]

On the face of it, the clauses are not problematic: they are quite clear, and it is important that those things that are considered as enforcement functions are clearly defined. That is all well and good—until we get to clause 74(5), which states:

“Arrangements under this section do not prevent the Secretary of State from performing a function to which the arrangements relate.”

Therefore, a body with certain powers—admittedly in the Secretary of State’s name—is created; essentially, a quango is put in place, and people are given the clear job of carrying out the enforcement functions in the Bill. However, if the Secretary of State is not prevented from performing one of those functions, what is the mechanism by which they can overrule the quango they themselves set up to perform them? Of course, the ultimate buck must stop with the Secretary of State, but it is a pretty established convention that where a quango is set up and has powers delegated to it—I think of Natural England within the Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs and many other quangos—it is very rare for a Secretary of State to intervene, overrule and perhaps come to a different conclusion from that quango.

We will not oppose the clauses, but I would be grateful if the Minister could reflect on the circumstances in which he believes clause 74(5) would come into effect, to make clear the procedures a Secretary of State would need to follow to bring that subsection into effect.

--- Later in debate ---

[Justin Madders]

I hear what the shadow Minister says. He is possibly over-egging the pudding or taking us on a ride on the ghost train in terms of what clause 74(5) means. It simply means that if the Secretary of State delegates powers to another body, they are still the responsible person for the overall operation. This is not about overruling different bodies; it is about where the final responsibility lies. I hope I have put the hon. Gentleman’s mind at rest to some extent.

Question put and agreed to.

Clause 73 accordingly ordered to stand part of the Bill.

Clause 74 ordered to stand part of the Bill.

Clause 75

Advisory Board

Question proposed, That the clause stand part of the Bill.

[Justin Madders]

I know you have been eagerly awaiting this clause, Mr Mundell. It concerns an important part of the fair work agency, and something that the Liberal Democrat spokesperson touched on earlier. The agency has a big job on its hands to restore trust among workers that they will get the rights that they are entitled to and that Parliament has laid down. It also important that the agency is trusted by businesses, and that they know they will be treated fairly and that if they follow the law, they will not be undercut by those who seek to avoid it. That is an important job for the fair work agency and it is important that we get it right. It must reflect the concerns of businesses and workers.

The Low Pay Commission has served the country well since the last Labour Government created it to advise on the national minimum wage. That is because it is a social partnership, comprising equal voices of workers, businesses and independent experts, and can reflect the perspectives of all those bodies when making recommendations. We want the FWA to replicate that success.

The clause requires the Secretary of State to create an advisory board for the fair work agency. Subsection (2) specifies that the board must consist of at least nine members appointed by the Secretary of State. Subsection (3) provides that board members must hold and vacate their position in accordance with the terms and conditions of their appointment. Subsection (4) provides for the advisory board to have a social partnership model, requiring equal representation of businesses, trade unions and independent experts.

We know this is a complex area that is constantly changing, but we believe that the model and approach that has proved so successful with the Low Pay Commission should be replicated here. I therefore commend the clause to the Committee.

[Greg Smith]

I hear what the Minister says in his explanation of the clause. Often, advisory boards are perfectly good and useful bodies, but I return to my earlier point that where a power rests with a Secretary of State, the accountable body to which any Secretary of State must submit themselves is the House of Commons, where they are a Member, or the House of Lords, in the rare case that they sit in the other place. Parliament is the advisory body—the critical friend—that the Secretary of State should submit themselves to.

However, accepting that an advisory board is going to be established, I want to ask the Minister about its make-up. While the Bill seems to be quite clear, there are some gaps, and some unanswered questions that the public, businesses, employees and the trade union movement will no doubt wish to have answered.

Probably the clearest definition in clause 75(4) is that in paragraph (a):

“persons appearing to the Secretary of State to represent the interests of trade unions”.

I think we can all understand that that means representatives of the trade union movement.

--- Later in debate ---

[Greg Smith]

I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman for his intervention and for what appears to be his support for the British egg industry. I encourage him to eat as many British eggs as possible and to support our farmers.

[Justin Madders]

Egg-cellent!

[The Chair]

We are not going down this route, thank you.

Employment Rights Bill (Eighteenth sitting)

Justin Madders Excerpts

Committee stage
Thursday 9th January 2025 Public Bill Committees

[Laurence Turner (Birmingham Northfield) (Lab)]

It is a pleasure to serve under your chairship, Sir Christopher. I am sure that the whole Committee is grateful for that illuminating update. I will keep my comments brief.

The words that we have talked about at great length—“appearing to the Secretary of State to represent” employees, workers or employers—are a standard form of language that has appeared in industrial relations legislation, and indeed non-industrial relations legislation, since the 1960s at least. Similarly, the wording about an “independent expert” unsurprisingly follows a Whitehall pro forma. Very similar language appears in the Levelling-up and Regeneration Act 2023, so its inclusion should not be a matter of contention for the Committee.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Business and Trade (Justin Madders)]

It is a pleasure to see you in the Chair, Sir Christopher. As always, I will start by referring to my entry in the Register of Members’ Financial Interests. Following the reference to illumination, I hope to shed light on the advantages of a fair work agency.

We have heard a fair amount of criticism from the Opposition Benches about the suggestion that we set up an advisory board. The shadow Minister asked whether a Member of Parliament could apply to be on it. I do not think that it is entirely clear whether they could. I do not know whether the prohibitions on second jobs for MPs have that scenario in mind, but I imagine that it could fall within the prohibition relating to advising on areas of policy. I also hope that all Members are fully engaged in their day-to-day work of representing their constituents and will not feel it necessary to apply. Indeed, we will play a role here in scrutinising the work of the fair work agency. Given the comments of the hon. Member for Bridgwater, he will not be making an application, in any event.

On the point that academics could also be members of a trade union and could therefore fit into more than one category, anyone in a free society is entitled to join a trade union should they wish to do so. We would not want to make it a condition for job applicants to have to state their trade union membership—that is a slightly McCarthyist road to go down—but members of the Low Pay Commission are already required to declare any interests, including membership of trade unions or political parties. There is an opportunity for transparency in that sense.

As my hon. Friend the Member for Birmingham Northfield says, the pro forma definitions in the Bill are not novel interpretations. They are tried and tested definitions—I would like to say “trusted” as well, but it is clear that the hon. Member for Bridgwater does not trust us to operate them in the way they have operated in the past—of how people are appointed to such bodies. As has been noted, they have worked successfully for the Low Pay Commission for a quarter of a century.

The shadow Minister was accused of over-egging the pudding, but the hon. Member for Bridgwater broke enough eggs in his criticisms to feed us all for the next month. I think he suggested that we did not need an advisory board at all, which suggests that he does not believe it important that the voice of business have input into the work of the fair work agency. He also said that we did not need more reports, which is one of the roles of the advisory board, and yet only a couple of hours ago he voted for a report into the application of the fair work agency. What he was getting at is that if we have to have this, we need to be assured that there is no jiggery-pokery about who will be appointed to it.

[Sir Ashley Fox (Bridgwater) (Con)]

It is good to see you in the Chair, Sir Christopher. The point I was aiming to make is that there is no shortage of free advice from trade unions, employers and independent experts, so there is no need to set up a board to pay people to give advice that is freely available. The Secretary of State should simply take political responsibility for the choices he makes, rather than having advice collected together by a board and passed back to him.

[Justin Madders]

I understand the hon. Gentleman’s point, but this is about how we intend to deal with industrial relations and the workplace in future—the tripartite arrangement, where we get everyone in the room, so they can agree or put different points of view. As has been demonstrated successfully by the Low Pay Commission, that results in the right balance, which is good for the economy and good for workers. It results in settlements that everyone can agree with.

[Mr Peter Bedford (Mid Leicestershire) (Con)]

It is good to see you in the Chair, Sir Christopher. To follow up on the point that my hon. Friend the Member for Bridgwater makes about the advisory board, what is the Minister’s view of ministerial accountability? Will there be transparency on the board’s recommendations and on being held to account for decisions? Over the past several years, Governments of all colours—Conservative, coalition and Labour—have tended to create boards, advisory panels and so forth and have felt obliged to follow the advice that they give. They almost want to derogate from their responsibility. What is the Minister’s view of the advice given by the board? Does he believe that robust ministerial responsibility should still exist, so the Minister could, or should, take decisions that are against the board’s advice? I guess I am asking what the transparency is on the board’s advice to the Minister.

[Justin Madders]

That is a perfectly reasonable question. It is dealt with in the clauses, which we are about to debate and which address the requirement for the board to set out an annual report and strategy. That will inform the Secretary of State of the direction of travel of the fair work agency. Again, this is not an unusual arrangement. If we believe, as we do on the Government Benches, that the fair work agency needs an advisory body—I cannot recall any person or organisation who submitted evidence to the Committee suggesting that that was not an appropriate idea—the logical conclusion of what the hon. Member for Bridgwater suggests is that the Bill should name every single person on it. That is not a practical way to proceed.

I suggest that a huge mountain has been made out of a small molehill. This is an established practice that has worked well and has been seen to work well, and it has support from many stakeholders. It is entirely in line with what we seek to achieve.

Question put and agreed to.

Clause 75 accordingly ordered to stand part of the Bill.

Clause 76

Labour market enforcement strategy

Question proposed, That the clause stand part of the Bill.

[The Chair]

With this it will be convenient to discuss clause 77 stand part.

[Justin Madders]

Clause 76 will require the Secretary of State to prepare and publish a labour market enforcement strategy every three years, which should give an assessment of levels of non-compliance with labour market legislation, as well as what activity is undertaken to address that. Subsection (4) will require the Secretary of State to consult the fair work agency’s advisory board when preparing or revising the enforcement strategy, to benefit from its expertise. Subsection (5) will require the strategy to be laid before Parliament, allowing parliamentary scrutiny in the usual manner. A labour market enforcement strategy is a critical tool to maintain accountability and focus on enforcing labour market legislation. It can help to tackle workplace exploitation by prioritising enforcement in sectors in which workers are at higher risk.

Clause 77 sets out the requirement for the Secretary of State to prepare and publish an annual report about the enforcement of labour market legislation. Subsection (3) will require the Secretary of State to consult the fair work agency’s advisory board when preparing the annual report, to benefit from its expertise. Subsection (4) will require the annual report to be laid before Parliament, allowing parliamentary scrutiny in the usual manner. Clause 77 will promote accountability by requiring an annual report on the fair work agency’s enforcement actions and will allow Parliament to monitor progress in protecting workers’ rights. It will ensure that employment standards are not just set, but actively maintained across the UK. I commend the clauses to the Committee.

[Greg Smith (Mid Buckinghamshire) (Con)]

It is good to see you in the Chair, Sir Christopher. Clauses 76 and 77 are relatively straightforward. Quite rightly, as is standard in similar legislative provisions, they state explicitly that both the strategy, every three years or so, and the annual report, every year, should be laid before Parliament. That is welcome: it is standard and is in no way under question.

If the Minister is agreeable to it, I would like him to confirm that Members of both Houses will be given the chance to question and debate the documents—certainly the strategy, which is an important document on a longer timescale—rather than their just being laid before the House. Although it would be unusual to specify that in the Bill, will he confirm that when the first strategy is published under clause 76 or the first annual report is published under clause 77, his expectation is that Ministers will be willing to make an oral statement so that the House can properly question it and scrutinise the Secretary of State, or whichever Minister draws the short straw and presents it to the House?

When documents are simply laid before the House, sometimes these things get overlooked. Select Committees sometimes have too much work in their programme to squeeze in a scrutiny session around the publication of such documents; sometimes the House of Commons sees only a written statement. It would be sufficient if the Minister confirmed that his desire is to see these documents not simply laid before Parliament, but actively debated, at least through the means of an oral statement.

[Steve Darling (Torbay) (LD)]

It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Sir Christopher. On behalf of my residents in Torbay, whether they are employers or workers, a strategy to know how the Government are looking to drive this agenda forward can only be welcomed.

[Justin Madders]

I think there is broad support for these clauses. The shadow Minister requests that I commit to an oral statement, but he will be aware that I am not in control of the business of the House. I hope that we would want to ensure that all Members have the opportunity to ask questions, but he will know that a number of other mechanisms—sorry, I am sounding a bit like the Leader of the House now—are available to Members to ensure that particular matters are debated.

[Greg Smith]

I am enjoying the Minister’s audition to be Leader of the House of Commons, a role that I am certain he would do exceptionally well. As I am sure he well understands, although the business of the House is for the business managers and the Leader of the House to negotiate through the usual channels, all I am really asking of him is an in-principle commitment to offer an oral statement at the Dispatch Box. Whether it gets approved or selected by the usual channels is a different matter. An indication of the intent of the Minister and the Department for Business and Trade to offer an oral statement so that these strategies and annual reports can be scrutinised across the House would be important and welcome.

[Justin Madders]

I thank the shadow Minister for destroying any career prospects that I might have had. I certainly believe that the first publication would be of sufficient magnitude for an oral statement to the House. As a Minister I would certainly want to give such a statement, although whether it happens is outside my gift, as the shadow Minister knows. As we do not know when it will happen, or indeed whether either of us will be in the same role by that point, I can probably say no more. Perhaps I will be doing something else, or nothing at all. Who knows? I certainly think that the first publication of the strategy would warrant an oral statement, but for the reasons that I have outlined, I cannot make a cast-iron promise.

Question put and agreed to.

Clause 76 accordingly ordered to stand part of the Bill.

Clause 77 ordered to stand part of the Bill.

Clause 78

Power to obtain documents or information

[Justin Madders]

I beg to move amendment 86, in clause 78, page 83, line 6, leave out “to ascertain” and insert “the purpose of ascertaining”.

This amendment makes a minor drafting correction.

[The Chair]

With this it will be convenient to discuss Government amendment 90.

[Justin Madders]

Clause 78 will confer a power on the Secretary of State—although in practice it will be delegated to enforcement officers—to require a person to provide documents or information relevant to an investigation. This is a vital power, and a common power for enforcement agencies to have. It is right that its use be clearly defined. Clause 78(3) defines “enforcement purpose” in relation to the power; Government amendment 86 will make a small drafting correction so that the definition is consistently drafted. This is a technical change, but one that will make sure that this key power is easy to interpret and understand.

Government amendment 90 similarly clarifies the definition of “enforcement purpose”, in this case for the powers of entry in clause 79. As drafted, the Bill has identical definitions of enforcement purposes in clauses 78 and 79, with clause 79 relying on the definition in clause 78. However, these are different powers and the wording on enforcement purposes in clause 78 does not neatly match the provisions of clause 79. It is right that the wording of the definition of “enforcement purpose” in clause 79 should better reflect what the clause says. This amendment therefore clarifies the definition to tailor it to powers of entry. This is, again, a technical change, but one that will make sure that this key power is easy to interpret and understand. I commend the amendments to the Committee.

[Greg Smith]

Government amendments 86 and 90, as the Minister says, will clarify the purposes for which the power conferred by clause 79 to enter premises and inspect documents may be exercised, with a number of conditions. I would be grateful if he clarified whether a warrant will be required to enter business premises and exercise the powers in clause 79. If not, why not? It is a pretty broad power for enforcement officers that they can enter premises for

“the purpose of enabling the Secretary of State to determine whether to exercise any enforcement function”.

I would be grateful if the Minister provided some practical examples of what that means. It seems a pretty broad power to be able to go in simply to see whether there is anything to look at; it seems at odds with statutory precedent.

Amendment 88 is a minor drafting correction. I will not rehearse the usual arguments.

[Justin Madders]

The shadow Minister asks about the requirement for a warrant. The Committee will shortly come on to a clause that deals with that point. I believe that the purposes for which the power is to be used are also set out elsewhere in the Bill.

Amendment 86 agreed to.

Question proposed, That the clause, as amended, stand part of the Bill.

[Justin Madders]

Improving the enforcement of workers’ rights is important and depends on access to the right information. Clause 78 introduces a power to obtain documents and information. The power will be conferred on the Secretary of State, but in practice it is a function that Secretary of State will delegate to enforcement officers.

Creating the fair work agency involves bringing together different agencies with different information-gathering powers. Multiple overlapping powers would be confusing and slow down enforcement. The powers of some current enforcement bodies have not kept pace with the times. For example, the employment agency standards inspectorate’s powers are activated only when they enter a premises. That makes no sense in today’s business world where many businesses are operated online and remotely, and documents are stored electronically. It is high time that we brought the legislation into the 21st century.

Clause 78 gives enforcement officers the power to require a person to provide documents and information relevant to an investigation. The person will receive a notice from the officer to provide the relevant documents or information that the officer deems necessary for their purpose. This is a common power for enforcement agencies to have, and it synthesizes and updates the powers that existing enforcement bodies already have.

[Greg Smith]

I broadly accept the Minister’s argument on bringing legislation into the 21st century, and it would be foolish not to acknowledge changes in the way that documents are stored or the fact that certain businesses operate online in a way that they simply did not when the existing legislation was passed. We do not seek to object to that element.

When expanding any power of any enforcement officer under the state, however, there is always a concern to best ensure that the checks and balances that any reasonable person would expect are there. The Bill will undoubtedly become an Act, so I gently ask the Minister how, when these powers are delegated by the current or any future Secretary of State to the enforcement body, the practical application of the use of those powers—particularly those that are a step into the unknown regarding online and electronic document storage—will be assessed and reviewed to check that the right delegations are in place, and that there is no overstretch or unnecessary steps to demand documents that may not be required.

We can all imagine a situation in which, because documents are held in electronic form, some enforcement officers might desire to be over-zealous and ask for far more than they need. I do not see a safeguard to ensure that enforcement officers ask only for things that they categorically and absolutely need within the function of the duties that this or any future Secretary of State delegates to them.

[Steve Darling]

It is important that we hear from the Minister about getting the balance right and supporting people’s rights, while not being too invasive to businesses. I look forward to hearing from him.

[Justin Madders]

Fair points were made by the Opposition spokespeople. Clearly, the Secretary of State is ultimately responsible to Parliament for the operation of the fair work agency and the use of powers by enforcement officers. I expect that will ensure that there is oversight at least on a parliamentary level. On an operational level, there will also be an opportunity for the advisory body to be involved.

On the modernisation of the rules, I understand that that applies only to the employment agency standards inspectorate, because the other bodies already have those powers. It is not a dramatic extension of the existing powers that are already in place.

Question put and agreed to.

Clause 78, as amended, accordingly ordered to stand part of the Bill.

Clause 79

Power to enter business premises in order to obtain documents, etc

[Justin Madders]

I beg to move amendment 87, in clause 79, page 83, line 11, leave out “business”.

The effect of this amendment and amendment 89 is that the power in clause 79 may be exercised to enter any premises, including premises used as a dwelling, for the purposes of inspecting or examining documents on the premises, etc. However, NC8 provides that, in the case of a dwelling, the power is not exercisable without a warrant.

[The Chair]

With this it will be convenient to discuss the following:

Government amendments 88, 89, 91, 94 and 96.

Government new clause 8—Power to enter dwelling subject to warrant.

Government new clause 9—Warrants.

Government new schedule 1—Warrants under Part 5: further provision.

--- Later in debate ---

[Justin Madders]

I will speak first to amendments 87 to 89 and new clause 8, which are necessary because they represent a vital step forward in ensuring effective enforcement while respecting fundamental rights. Clause 79 enables enforcement officers to enter business premises to carry out inspections. This is a fundamental and necessary clause for the fair work agency to operate. A workplace inspectorate that could not inspect workplaces would not be of much use.

Clause 79 as initially drafted excluded dwellings from that power of entry but, as hon. Members will be aware, a significant number of businesses are now run from private dwellings, particularly within the gig economy and online marketplaces. These amendments therefore expand the scope of the power to cover dwellings that are used as business premises, but it is right that we introduce adequate safeguards for this power, because it in effect allows an arm of the state to enter family homes and disrupt private life. Therefore, there will be a requirement for enforcement officers to obtain a warrant from a justice before entering a dwelling.

We believe this approach strikes a balance between ensuring robust enforcement of labour market legislation and modernising the law to include best practice safeguards. Without this amendment, enforcement efforts would be hampered. Many violations occur in business premises that double as private dwellings. By granting access through a warrant-based system, enforcement officers can efficiently investigate breaches without undermining public trust. The proposed safeguards mirror those in other enforcement frameworks, ensuring consistency and fairness.

This amendment is a necessary evolution of enforcement powers. It ensures that enforcement officers can effectively combat labour market abuses wherever they occur, while upholding and protecting the rights of individuals by ensuring that safeguards are in place.

I now move to amendments 91, 94 and 96, new clause 9 and new schedule 1. The fair work agency is all about simplification, replacing multiple, complex approaches to enforcement with a single, simple system that—unlike this amendment grouping—is easy for employers and workers to understand. These amendments do precisely that by introducing a single process for obtaining warrants across the two powers that require them.

The detailed safeguards included in the new schedule reinforce the transparency, legality and proportionality of these powers, which is vital for public trust in enforcement processes. The amendments also improve the clarity and coherence of the Bill, making it easier to implement and understand. Together, these measures strengthen the Bill, ensuring that robust enforcement mechanisms are paired with the necessary protections for individuals and premises, and I commend them to the Committee.

[Greg Smith]

This is a bumper grouping—amendments, new clauses and even a new schedule. I will start with new clause 8, which provides that an enforcement officer may not exercise the power conferred by clause 79, to enter a business premises for any enforcement purpose, to enter premises that are a dwelling without first obtaining a warrant. As in previous debates in this Committee about dwellings, the official Opposition agree that obtaining a warrant first should be necessary, so we are fine with that.

New clause 9 makes further provision about warrants under part 5 and enables warrants that authorise people to accompany the enforcement officer executing the warrant. It also provides that entry under warrant is unlawful unless it complies with the provisions in new schedule 1 relating to the execution of warrants, which equally seems sensible. The new clause also provides that those persons who are authorised to accompany the enforcement officer can exercise the same powers that the officer may exercise as a result of the warrant. Off the back of that quite niche point, could the Minister explain who the Government envisage accompanying the enforcement officer under those powers—for example, a warranted police officer? Who does the Minister envisage being part of that process?

New schedule 1 makes further provision about applications for the execution of warrants under part 5. Warrants must be executed within three months of being granted. That is fairly standard, so the Opposition find that to be an uncontentious point.

--- Later in debate ---

I appreciate that in real life, the proof of the pudding is in the eating and there is a lot of trial and error and seeing how things work in practice. As ever, though, I would expect the Department, through its own consultation, conversations and experience with those fragmented enforcement bodies as they exist at the moment, to have at the very least an expectation of how often the powers that are provided for in these amendments, new clauses and new schedule would be used.

[Justin Madders]

I am pleased that the shadow Minister recognises the need for these safeguards. As for who could accompany an enforcement officer, it would depend on the individual circumstances. It could be a police officer. It might be someone from social services. I had probably best write to the hon. Gentleman to set out in some more detail who that might apply to.

I am afraid that asking how often we expect the powers to be used is rather like asking, “how long is a piece of string?” I would say, though, that some of the recent reports from the labour market enforcement bodies, including even the Low Pay Commission, show that there are actually quite a lot of labour violations in domestic settings—far more than there might have been in the past. That trend may well continue into the future.

I did not quite follow the shadow Minister’s inconsistency point.

[Greg Smith]

I am grateful to the Minister, and I would be happy to follow this matter up in correspondence if we cannot make it clear in Committee. The point I was trying to make was that new schedule 1 makes provision for the execution of warrants under part 5 being granted, which is standard, but as we get into some of the detail, amendments 87 and 89 provide that the power in clause 79 may be exercised to enter any premises, including premises used as a dwelling, whereas new clause 8 provides that in the case of a dwelling, the power is not exercisable without a warrant. It seems to create potential for an extreme legal interpretation, to put those two at odds.

Therefore, if there is a drafting way that the two could be married up, so that it could be made clear that a warrant will always and categorically be required to enter a dwelling, that would be welcome. Perhaps it will be enough for the Minister to simply do so verbally in this Committee.

[Justin Madders]

I thank the hon. Gentleman for that intervention. Certainly that would be my understanding, but I will happily write to him to confirm that.

I now have some more examples of people who might accompany enforcement officers during a visit. I am told that it could be other enforcement officers; IT experts, as data might be stored on computers; or HMRC fraud investigators. As I have suggested, we will write to the hon. Gentleman with a detailed list so he has a better idea of what we are looking at.

Amendment 87 agreed to.

Amendments made: 88, in clause 79, page 83, line 12, at end insert—

“This is subject to section (Power to enter dwelling subject to warrant) (which provides that a warrant is necessary to enter a dwelling).”

This amendment is consequential on NC8.

Amendment 89, in clause 79, page 83, leave out lines 28 and 29.

See the explanatory statement for amendment 87.

Amendment 90, in clause 79, page 83, line 30, leave out from “purpose” to end and insert “means—

(a) the purpose of enabling the Secretary of State to determine whether to exercise any enforcement function;

(b) the purpose of determining whether there has been any non-compliance with relevant labour market legislation;

(c) the purpose of ascertaining whether there are documents on the premises which may be required as evidence in proceedings for any non-compliance with relevant labour market legislation;”.—(Justin Madders.)

This amendment clarifies the purposes for which the power conferred by clause 79 to enter premises and inspect documents, etc may be exercised.

Question proposed, That the clause, as amended, stand part of the Bill.

--- Later in debate ---

[The Chair]

The reason we have not done that is because we have not yet reached them. We have to do things in order. Government amendment 94, for example, is an amendment to clause 83, and we have not reached clause 83 yet. However, I am always very grateful for advice from hon. Members because nobody in this room is infallible.

[Justin Madders]

I am sure if we had a Division on that, there would be some interesting comments. It can be difficult to keep up, but your understanding of the current grouping, Sir Christopher, is as mine, which is always an encouraging start.

Turning to clause 79, all the existing employment rights enforcement bodies have powers to enter premises and inspect workplaces to gather information to inform their investigations, but each body’s powers are different and some of them are now very out of date. Clause 79 therefore introduces a single power to enter into any relevant premises to obtain information or documents.

The clause has been drafted with the aim of continuing the current approach to enforcement and compliance, so in general, an officer will agree a time for their visit with the employer in advance and arrange the visit at a reasonable time during business hours. However, it allows an officer to turn up unannounced if they have reasonable grounds to believe that an employer may frustrate entry.

The clause gives power to an officer to inspect or examine any documents on the premises. The officer may also require any person on the premises to produce documents that the officer has grounds to believe are on the premises and are within their control or possession. If the person cannot provide the necessary documents, they will be able to provide them to the officer at a later time and date. An officer can also have access to, and check the operation of, any computer or equipment, as such devices may store information that is necessary for the purposes of an investigation. The clause also allows the officer to seize any documents produced on the premises that may be necessary for the investigation.

To enter a dwelling, as we have discussed, an officer will have to obtain a warrant from a justice. That reasonable safeguard protects the rights of all individuals to family life whilst allowing agents to carry out all the vital work they need to protect the rights of workers.

New clause 49 will restrict the exercise of powers in clauses 78 and 79 in relation to the intelligence services, unless the Secretary of State is satisfied that using the powers would not be prejudicial to national security, the prevention and detection of serious crime and the economic wellbeing of the UK. The new clause requires the Secretary of State to issue a certificate of satisfaction before the powers can be exercised. Conditions on the exercise of either power may also be imposed if necessary. Subsection (5) also states that, other than as provided for in the clause,

“nothing in this Part requires any person to…produce”

or disclose any document or information “containing intelligence service information”.

Government amendment 182 is consequential on Government new clause 49. Clause 108, as introduced, sets out that the enforcement provisions in part 5 generally apply to Crown premises and the parliamentary estate. Clause 108(5) enables the Secretary of State to prevent powers of entry from being exercised in relation to Crown premises when that is deemed necessary for national security reasons. Government amendment 182 amends clause 181 to provide textual consistency and to ensure that new clause 49 functions as intended.

The amendments strike a balance to ensure that the fair work agency does not inadvertently act in a way that could be prejudicial to key national interests that the intelligence services work hard to protect, while also enabling those services to be investigated like other employers. This is vital to ensure that there is not a two-tier system of enforcement whereby some workers have less protection than others because of who their employer is.

I turn to Government amendment 181. Clause 101 imposes restrictions on the disclosure of intelligence service information, which is necessary to protect such information. It also defines “intelligence service information” for the purposes of that restriction. However, new clause 49 contains a slightly different definition, so Government amendment 181 amends that in clause 101 so that it is consistent with the definition in new clause 49(6)(c).

Government amendments 177 to 179 are technical amendments that are consequential on Government amendment 181. They make changes to the definition of “appropriate service chief” in clause 101(4). This is necessary as a result of the amendment to the definition of “intelligence service information” in clause 101 that is made by Government amendment 181. These technical amendments insert wording to clarify who the relevant service chief is in relation to information that has been received directly or indirectly from, or in relation to, each of the intelligence services. This addition is intended to capture information that may be obtained or held by third parties that relates to the intelligence services.

The amendments are part of a series of measures that are intended to balance the need to ensure that intelligence service information is protected, enabling the intelligence services to continue to do their important work, while also ensuring that the fair work agency can exercise relevant powers when necessary.

As we have already heard, part 5 of the Bill contains provisions that provide the building blocks that we will use to create the fair work agency. Several measures in the part, including some new clauses and amendments, are intended to specify how investigatory enforcement powers apply in relation to the intelligence services. They contain exemptions that are necessary to balance the protection of national security while ensuring that the fair work agency can still investigate when appropriate.

Clause 101 defines GCHQ and the intelligence services for clarity. If the amendments and new clauses are agreed to, those terms will be used more widely. The amendments are a technical change to ensure that the defined terms are repositioned to clause 112, which defines terms as they apply across part 5.

[Greg Smith]

I cannot remember, Sir Christopher, whether you were in the Chair when the Committee previously discussed exemptions for the intelligence services, but it seems that we now have a different approach to such exemptions in the amendments that the Minister has just spoken to. I guess it is “Never Say Never Again.”

[Justin Madders]

Ah!

[Greg Smith]

There was always going to be a point when we returned to that.

New clause 49 would restrict the Secretary of State’s ability to exercise enforcement powers in relation to people serving in the intelligence services, unless it has been certified that there was no risk to national security. It would also restrict their ability to require others to provide documents or information relating to the work of the intelligence services.

Amendment 181 amends the definition of “intelligence service information” so that it is consistent with new clause 49, and amendments 177 to 179 are consequential to that. Amendment 205 defines GCHQ and intelligence services for the purposes of part 5 of the Bill—all very sensible—and applies the powers in clauses 78 and 79 to the intelligence services. The Secretary of State must be satisfied that the exercise of the power will not be contrary to the public interest, or prejudicial to national security, the prevention or detection of serious crime, or the economic wellbeing of the United Kingdom.

I am genuinely grateful to the Minister and the Government that these exemptions for the intelligence services are included in the amendments and new clause—as I said a couple of moments ago, that represents a very sensible route—but I wonder why they seem to have been added as an afterthought. Did nobody in government consider the importance and the sensitivity of documents held within the intelligence services before the Bill was first presented to the House of Commons?

[Justin Madders]

The shadow Minister was quite right to refer back to our earlier debate on flexible working. Today, he certainly is the man with the golden pun, but this set of rules is slightly different: it still allows the intelligence services to be dealt with, whereas I think his proposal would have excluded the intelligence services altogether. The requirement is just that the Secretary of State is satisfied that the inspections and powers are necessary. Of course, when dealing with highly sensitive intelligence documents, we would want such safeguards, so I am pleased that he supports our measures.

Question put and agreed to.

Clause 79, as amended, accordingly ordered to stand part of the Bill.

Clause 80

Supplementary powers in relation to documents

Question proposed, That the clause stand part of the Bill.

[The Chair]

With this it will be convenient to discuss clause 81 stand part.

[Justin Madders]

The clause is a vital element of the fair work agency’s investigatory powers. It means that enforcement officers can copy documents and require that information is produced in a legible and readable format so that officers can take information away for analysis in slower time. The clause is necessary to ensure thorough inspection of the relevant information and documents for the purpose of the investigation, and it builds on powers that existing bodies have.

Clause 81 allows enforcement officers to retain any documents received under clause 78, or documents seized under clause 79, so that they have time to review documents properly to support their investigations and, if necessary, use those documents as evidence at trial. This reasonable and proportionate power is critical to allow the effective enforcement of employment rights. It is proportionate because if a photograph or a copy can be made of a document, that document is released back to the owner. I hope Members understand why the powers will be necessary so that the fair work agency can pursue its activities effectively.

[Greg Smith]

His Majesty’s loyal Opposition do not object to the thrust of the clauses, particularly the provision about not retaining a physical document if taking a photograph or making a copy of it is practicable. I do not want anyone to misinterpret what I am saying, but although I recognise the need for enforcement agencies to be able to acquire the evidence and documents they need to conclude their right and proper investigations, the question arises, how long may evidence be held by the enforcement agency, or indeed any part of the British state, particularly in cases in which a physical document has not been retained but a photograph or a copy has been taken of it? Clause 81 is pretty explicit about the retention of physical documents, but it is less clear on how long a copy or a photograph may be held by any arm of the state. I look for reassurance from the Minister that the rules will apply to copies as much as to the original documents seized, taken or willingly given to the enforcement officers.

[Steve Darling]

I broadly welcome the way forward proposed in these clauses.

[Justin Madders]

I hope that I can put the shadow Minister’s mind at rest. My interpretation of the provisions of clause 81(2) are that they would apply equally to the provisions of clause 81(3) and that copies would be retained only for as long as necessary for the purposes set out in subsection (2). I will write to him if my understanding is incorrect, but I believe that the legislation is fairly clear on that point.

Question put and agreed to.

Clause 80 accordingly ordered to stand part of the Bill.

Clause 81 ordered to stand part of the Bill.

Clause 82

Powers of enforcement officers under Police and Criminal Evidence Act 1984

Question proposed, That the clause stand part of the Bill.

[Justin Madders]

The clause refers to where provision is made for authorised enforcement officers to exercise relevant powers under the Police and Criminal Evidence Act 1984. Those powers are crucial in equipping enforcement officers to effectively investigate labour market offences. The clause forms part of our broader strategy to consolidate fragmented employment and labour practices under one unified fair work agency, including replacing the Gangmasters and Labour Abuse Authority with a strengthened enforcement body.

It is essential that these powers, which are currently exercised by the Gangmasters and Labour Abuse Authority, are carried over to the fair work agency so that the agency can respond more swiftly and effectively to offences, ensuring that breaches of employment law are met with appropriate and immediate action. The integration will not only preserve the Gangmasters and Labour Abuse Authority’s valuable work, but expand on it, reinforcing the Government’s commitment to protecting workers’ rights across the labour market. I therefore commend the clause to the Committee.

[Greg Smith]

This is an uncontentious clause.

Question put and agreed to.

Clause 82 accordingly ordered to stand part of the Bill.

Clause 83

Offences relating to gangmasters: power to enter premises with warrant

Amendment made: 91, in clause 83, page 85, line 9, leave out “persons or”.—(Justin Madders.)

This amendment is consequential on NC9.

[Justin Madders]

I beg to move amendment 92, in clause 83, page 85, line 10, at end insert—

“(aa) exercise any power conferred by section 79(2) or (4),”.

This amendment would enable an enforcement officer entering premises with a warrant under clause 83 to exercise the same powers to inspect, examine and seize documents as would be exercisable if the officer had entered the premises in reliance on the power conferred by clause 79.

[The Chair]

With this it will be convenient to discuss Government amendments 93 and 95.

[Justin Madders]

These are minor amendments to ensure that there is consistency between the general power of entry in clause 79 and the power of entry under clause 83. They provide for a consistent approach, which will be easier and simpler to understand. This is a technical change, but one that will ensure that these key powers are easy to interpret and understand.

[Greg Smith]

I heard what the Minister said, and these are indeed relatively minor amendments that do make sense. Amendment 92 enables an enforcement officer entering a premises with a warrant under clause 83 to exercise the same powers to inspect, examine and seize documents as would be exercisable if the officer had entered the premises in reliance on the power conferred by clause 79. Amendments 93 and 95 largely build on that. While we accept the spirit and the letter of the amendments, which all make sense, I cannot pass up yet another opportunity to wonder why they were not in the Bill in the first place.

[Steve Darling]

I welcome the further clarity that the amendments offer.

Amendment 92 agreed to.

Amendments made: 93, in clause 83, page 85, line 11, after “any” insert “other”.

This amendment is consequential on amendment 92.

Amendment 94, in clause 83, page 85, line 15, leave out subsection (5).

This amendment is consequential on NS1.

Amendment 95, in clause 83, page 85, line 24, leave out from beginning to “may” in line 26.

This amendment is consequential on amendment 92.

Amendment 96, in clause 83, page 86, line 3, at end insert—

“(10) For further provision about warrants under this section, see section (Warrants) and Schedule (Warrants under Part 5: further provision).”—(Justin Madders.)

This amendment is consequential on NC9 and NS1

Question proposed, That the clause, as amended, stand part of the Bill.

[Justin Madders]

The clause is an essential measure that empowers enforcement officers to enter premises, including by force if necessary, when investigating unlicensed gang- masters activity under the Gangmasters (Licensing) Act 2004. It carries over the existing powers of the Gangmasters and Labour Abuse Authority and brings them together with the other enforcement powers of the fair work agency. It enables officers to gather necessary evidence when there is a reason to suspect illegal labour practices and is a vital step in protecting vulnerable workers from exploitation. It ensures that enforcement officers can conduct thorough investigations to uphold fair labour practices without delay. As at present, enforcement officers will need a warrant to exercise this power.

The clause supports a co-ordinated approach to labour enforcement by integrating the functions of the Gangmasters and Labour Abuse Authority into the fair work agency. We are amending the clause as discussed and introducing a new schedule so that the process of applying for and executing a warrant mirrors that in clause 79, to create a single system of enforcement across the employment rights landscape. I commend the clause to the Committee.

[Greg Smith]

As we made clear in the debate on the amendments to the clause, the official Opposition are broadly content, particularly given the explicit requirement for a warrant to enter premises, that we can support it.

Question put and agreed to.

Clause 83, as amended, accordingly ordered to stand part of the Bill.

Clause 84

Power to request LME undertaking

Question proposed, That the clause stand part of the Bill.

--- Later in debate ---

[The Chair]

With this it will be convenient to discuss clauses 85 to 87 stand part.

[Justin Madders]

The labour market enforcement system was introduced by the Immigration Act 2016. It has proved an effective and flexible system to ensure that employers comply with the law. This set of clauses largely replicates the relevant provisions of the 2016 Act but replaces references to the enforcing authority with references to the Secretary of State, in order to reflect the transfer of functions to the Secretary of State. Clause 72(4) provides that enforcement officers may exercise any enforcement function of the Secretary of State.

Clause 84, together with clause 72(4), will ensure that enforcement officers appointed under clause 72 will have access to the powers they need. It gives the Secretary of State the power to request labour market enforcement undertakings, which are agreements made between the Secretary of State and a non-compliant employer. They outline measures that the employer will take to maintain compliance with the law and set out the prohibitions, restrictions and requirements with which the employer has agreed to comply. Labour market enforcement undertakings are important to ensure effective enforcement of the relevant labour market legislation within the fair work agency’s remit. They are effective in securing timely compliance, fostering collaboration, providing tailored solutions and improving conditions for workers. Labour market enforcement undertakings encourage persons to take responsibility for compliance while reserving more punitive actions for cases where voluntary efforts fail.

Turning to clause 85, the power to request labour market enforcement undertakings will be a key part of the fair work agency’s enforcement powers. Labour market enforcement undertakings are voluntary measures agreed between an individual business and the Secretary of State and seek to correct non-compliance to avoid the need for more extensive powers. Clause 84 gives the Secretary of State the power to request such undertakings, but clause 85 is crucial to ensure that the scope of the undertakings is clear. It does that by defining a “measure” in relation to an undertaking. It also specifies when those measures can be agreed as part of an undertaking and provides a delegated power for the Secretary of State to specify additional measures that may be included in an undertaking through affirmative regulations.

Clause 85 largely replicates existing legislation in the Immigration Act 2016, although references to the enforcing authority are again replaced by references to the Secretary of State, in order to reflect the transfer of functions and powers to the Secretary of State. The clause, together with clause 72(4), will ensure that enforcement officers appointed under clause 72 will have access to the powers they need.

Clause 86 closely follows section 16 of the Immigration Act 2016 and carries over elements of the labour market enforcement undertakings system, which has operated well since its introduction. The clause provides that the Secretary of State will be able to specify the time period for which an undertaking will last, with a maximum time of two years. That is sensible flexibility: the more serious or systemic the breach, the longer an undertaking may need to be monitored. Clause 86 will also allow the Secretary of State to release persons from an undertaking, and require a release where the undertaking is no longer serving its purpose. That, again, is sensible flexibility, which will allow the fair work agency to cease subjecting persons to undertakings where they comply with the provisions of the undertaking and show improvements, so that fair work agency officers can thereafter focus on higher-risk employers.

Clause 87 replicates section 17 of the Immigration Act 2016 and provides for how the Secretary of State should give notice to an employer about labour market enforcement undertakings. It replicates the existing law with minimal change—the current system works well. I commend the clauses to the Committee.

--- Later in debate ---

[Steve Darling]

I welcome the points made by the shadow Minister, and wait eagerly to hear from the Minister.

[Justin Madders]

I am grateful for the general support. The shadow Minister has raised some fair questions and articulated the frustration we all feel when trying to deal with certain organisations. I know it is a Thursday afternoon, but I could talk for some time about how my satellite TV provider has proven quite elusive when I have tried to speak to an individual.

I think I can put the shadow Minister’s mind at ease on this issue. Clearly, the purpose of the undertakings is to encourage compliance, so an undertaking will not appear out of thin air, but will be the result of an ongoing conversation between the employer and the fair work agency. Clause 87(6) specifies that notices or undertakings can be sent by electronic means only if

“the person has indicated that notices under section 84 may be given to…an electronic address”

and in a particular format, so there is already a safeguard in the Bill to ensure that those messages do not go missing. The whole purpose of an undertaking is that there is an agreement between both parties that there will be compliance, so it would not be in the fair work agency’s interest to send things to addresses or places where it was not confident that they would be received. It is all about encouraging compliance, and that is the purpose of the clauses we have just debated, so I commend them to the Committee.

Question put and agreed to.

Clause 84 accordingly ordered to stand part of the Bill.

Clauses 85 to 87 ordered to stand part of the Bill.

Clause 88

Power to make LME order on application

Question proposed, That the clause stand part of the Bill.

[The Chair]

With this it will be convenient to discuss the following:

Clauses 89 to 94 stand part.

Government amendment 189.

[Justin Madders]

Clause 88 carries over provisions that are currently in section 18 of the Immigration Act 2016. It gives the appropriate court the power to make a labour market enforcement order following an application by the Secretary of State. Labour market enforcement orders are a critical tool in the existing enforcement of employment rights, and it is vital that this system can continue to operate when enforcement is brought together under the fair work agency.

Clause 89 sets out the circumstances in which the Secretary of State may apply for a labour market enforcement order, and largely follows section 19 of the Immigration Act 2016. The Secretary of State may apply for an order if an employer refuses or fails to enter into a labour market enforcement undertaking, or does not comply with the measures in an undertaking that it has entered into. That is a common-sense approach to enforcement, first allowing businesses to fix problems voluntarily, and ordering them to improve only if that does not work. That is the compliance-first approach we want the fair work agency to take.

Clause 90 replicates section 20 of the Immigration Act 2016. It too grants the power to a court, where a person has been convicted of a labour market offence, to make a labour marker enforcement order. That is a reasonable measure, which protects workers by introducing an additional safeguard in relation to rogue employers. The labour market enforcement order may impose measures in accordance with clause 91 to ensure compliance with relevant legislation. This provision is substantially unchanged from the Immigration Act.

Clause 91 largely replicates section 21 of the Immigration Act 2016. It lays out what measures may be imposed in a labour market enforcement order. It also carries over from the Immigration Act 2016 a power for the Secretary of State to specify such measures in regulations. That is an existing power, and it makes sense to keep it to allow for flexibility in enforcing employment rights legislation. The measures are specifically designed to prevent or reduce the risk of the respondent failing to comply with any requirement imposed by or under relevant legislation, thereby protecting workers.

Clause 92 also carries over provisions from the Immigration Act 2016. It specifies that labour market enforcement orders can be granted only for a maximum period of two years and cannot be imposed on those under the age of 18. It also allows for courts, when making an order, to release individuals from undertakings for the labour market offence concerned, and from any other orders, to avoid individuals being subject to multiple undertakings and orders at the same time.

Clause 93 replicates section 23 of the Immigration Act 2016 and allows courts to vary or discharge labour market enforcement orders. Clause 94 carries over the appeals process for labour market enforcement orders from the Immigration Act 2016. The Bill clearly lays out which higher courts will deal with the appeal and what orders those courts may make, which is unchanged from the current regime. Clause 94 ports over the appeals process for labour market enforcement orders from the Immigration Act 2016. A clear appeals process is a vital and necessary way to enable the effective operation of the undertakings and orders system.

Let me turn to Government amendment 189. Schedule 6 outlines consequential amendments to other existing legislation and ensures consistency with the new provisions introduced by the Bill, which is important because it makes our legislative framework cohesive and functional. The amendment makes an essential technical addition to the Sentencing Act 2020, updating it to include reference to the labour market enforcement orders that a court may impose on someone upon conviction of a labour market offence. The amendment ensures that our statutory framework can function effectively. The labour market enforcement order system is an existing system that works well. I therefore commend amendment 189 and clauses 88 to 94 to the Committee.

[Greg Smith]

It is always good to see the Government copying and pasting from a piece of Conservative legislation, with the odd use of the replace function. I will focus my comments largely on Government amendment 189, which makes a consequential amendment to the Sentencing Act 2020 to include labour market enforcement orders in the list of orders that may be made on conviction by a criminal court but that are not dealt with in that Act.

I do not fully understand why the amendment was not included in the Bill on its introduction—it seems a straightforward and should have been in there from the start. But my central question for the Minister is, how does this compare with the current position on enforcement made on conviction by a criminal court? Can the Minister reassure the Committee that this is simply a tidying-up measure that brings existing experience into line with the proposed legislation, or does he envisage the amendment making a material difference?

[Justin Madders]

Let me deal first with the usual concern raised by the shadow Minister about why we have had to table an amendment. He has probably noticed that schedule 6 contains a considerable amount of other legislation. It is not that unexpected that not every piece of legislation affected by the Bill would be covered—that is really what this is about.

The shadow Minister also sought reassurance, and my understanding is that the amendment does not change the current powers of the courts in any meaningful way. If I am incorrect about that, I will of course write to him.

Question put and agreed to.

Clause 88 accordingly ordered to stand part of the Bill.

Clauses 89 to 94 ordered to stand part of the Bill.

Clause 95

Evidence of authority

Question proposed, That the clause stand part of the Bill.

[Justin Madders]

Enforcement officers need the powers to do their jobs effectively, and that is what we are providing through the Bill. Clause 95 introduces a key safeguard around carrying out the enforcement functions in part 5 of the Bill. It applies to any person proposing to carry out an enforcement function of the Secretary of State and to exercise any of the powers of an enforcement officer. It requires those persons—in practice, fair work agency inspectors—to provide evidence of their appointment when carrying out investigations or taking enforcement action. That evidence will be in the form of official identification, sometimes referred to as a warrant card, provided by the Department.

Existing enforcement bodies provide such evidence currently. For example, section 9(1) of the Employment Agencies Act 1973 requires inspectors of the employment agency standards inspectorate to show evidence of their authority “if so required”. We have mirrored that approach in clauses 95 to 97. Persons acting to carry out the Secretary of State’s enforcement functions and use the powers of enforcement officers will have to provide evidence of their appointment on request. That gives businesses the opportunity to satisfy themselves that an inspection, which is an inconvenience and costs time and money, is genuine. The fact that the clause requires officers to provide this evidence only on request reflects the fact that the fair work agency’s inspectors are likely to be in correspondence with businesses before their premises visit.

The way in which we have drafted the clause is proportionate and reflects existing best practice. It balances having an important safeguard in place with ensuring that that does not create unnecessary operational burdens. I therefore commend clause 95 to the Committee.

[Greg Smith]

As the Minister has said, the clause replicates existing best practice. It is perfectly reasonable that any enforcement officer turning up at any site seeking to engage in enforcement activity—be that under this legislation or in any other field—should have to prove on what authority they are acting. This clause is, therefore, uncontroversial.

Question put and agreed to.

Clause 95 accordingly ordered to stand part of the Bill.

Clause 96

Items subject to legal privilege

Question proposed, That the clause stand part of the Bill.

[Justin Madders]

The clause provides a safeguard to ensure the protection of any document or information that is subject to legal professional privilege. Such documents or information do not have to be provided in response to any enforcement action by the fair work agency. As Members will know, legal professional privilege is a well-established principle, and refers to a person’s ability to speak freely and frankly with their legal adviser to obtain advice. It is a key principle in the judicial system in this country.

Practically speaking, the clause means that no provisions relating to the enforcement of labour market legislation —those in part 5 of the Bill—can require a person to produce documents or information they are entitled to withhold on grounds of legal professional privilege in High Court proceedings in England and Wales. The same is true of documents or information a person is entitled to withhold in Court of Session proceedings in Scotland.

No provisions in the enforcement clauses can compel someone to disclose information they could choose to withhold on the grounds of confidentiality of communications. The clause defines communications for this purpose as any communication between a professional legal adviser and their client or as any communication made, connected with or for the purposes of legal proceedings. Protecting legal professional privilege helps to protect the administration of justice and the rights of individuals and other legal persons. It is a well-recognised concept that appears in many other pieces of legislation. For example, section 42 of the Freedom of Information Act 2000 exempts from disclosure information subject to legal privilege.

The fair work agency will have strong investigatory enforcement powers. Those are proportionate and justified, and it is important that, where investigations do happen, defendants are able to communicate frankly with any legal advisers representing them. I therefore commend the clause to the Committee.

[Greg Smith]

As the Minister said, the protection of legal privileges is well established in our legal system. It is important, and the clause is the belt and braces of ensuring that it applies to this legislation. In one respect, I could argue that I do not see why it is necessary to write the protection of legal privilege into the Bill, given how entrenched it is in our system. But it never hurts to have that belt-and-braces approach, and the Opposition object in no way, shape or form to the protection of legal privilege.

Question put and agreed to.

Clause 96 accordingly ordered to stand part of the Bill.

Clause 97

Privilege against self-incrimination

Question proposed, That the clause stand part of the Bill.

[Justin Madders]

Clause 97 provides for another standard safeguard in our legal system: protection against self-incrimination in criminal legal proceedings. The fair work agency has investigatory powers that enable the Secretary of State and the enforcement officers they appoint to require the production of documents and information to enable them to fulfil their functions. It is an offence under clause 104 for anyone, without reasonable excuse, to fail to comply with such a requirement.

The clause protects individuals from self-incrimination by providing that any information they are required to provide under clause 78 is not adduced as evidence against them in criminal proceedings. However, the individual can still choose to voluntarily adduce this information as evidence in the proceedings.

The clause disapplies that protection for certain offences. It provides that the protection does not apply where the offences under trial relate to any of the offences listed in subsection (4)—providing false information or documents under clause 103 of the Bill, or breaching other statutory provisions about false statements and statutory declarations. It is vital, in the context of someone providing false information, to ensure that the right evidence is presented to the court. That, in turn, is crucial to enable the court to come to the right decision.

These protections and exemptions help to ensure the effective functioning and the fairness of our legal system. I therefore commend the clause to the Committee.

[Greg Smith]

It is becoming almost uncomfortable how much we agree on the current set of clauses. However, these protections, particularly those against self-incrimination, come with the correct, proper and, dare I say it, entirely standard exemptions listed, and the Opposition do not object to the clause.

Question put and agreed to.

Clause 97 accordingly ordered to stand part of the Bill.

Clause 98

Disclosure of information

Question proposed, That the clause stand part of the Bill.

[The Chair]

With this it will be convenient to discuss clause 99 stand part.

[Justin Madders]

On clause 98, regulators and enforcement agencies must be able to work together effectively to share information and pool knowledge. For example, if the fair work agency identifies issues with health and safety in the course of its investigations, it should be able to let the Health and Safety Executive know, and vice versa.

Silo working is bad for workers, bad for businesses and bad for the taxpayer. Clause 98 is about preventing silo working. It authorises the two-way sharing of information between the fair work agency and other bodies. It introduces schedule 5, which lists the public bodies with which information can be shared to enable them to exercise their functions. We have tabled amendments to the schedule to add the Pensions Ombudsman, as well as certain authorities in the devolved nations.

The clause also allows for schedule 5 to be amended by affirmative regulations. That provides the flexibility necessary for the fair work agency to respond to changes in the wider labour market and regulatory landscape. Effective information sharing is crucial for successful enforcement of employment rights across agencies. Without the clause, the fair work agency would be unable to receive and share vital information, undermining its ability to effectively enforce those rights.

Clause 99 ensures that the information sharing authorised in clause 98 is efficient and reflective of best practice. Although it is vital that the fair work agency can share information with other bodies, it is critical that personal information is protected. Information will be able to be shared under clause 98 without breaching any obligation of confidence, or other restriction on the disclosure of information.

Clause 99 ensures that information shared under clause 98 is shared in accordance with the relevant data protection laws and remains subject to relevant prohibitions on disclosure in the Investigatory Powers Act 2016. It is crucial to safeguard the ongoing secure handling of information and to ensure that all parties can be confident that that information will be managed in the proper way.

[Greg Smith]

The critical thing in what the Minister just outlined is that any information sharing must happen within the confines of our existing data protection laws. That is absolutely mission critical. Of course, everyone accepts that enforcement agencies must work with other enforcement agencies and that they need to work closely with other Government agencies at times, where there is a compelling need to do so. In that respect, our existing data protection laws will be the necessary safeguard, as well as the explicit recognition of the other agencies that might be conferred with. From that perspective, clauses 98 and 99 are relatively straightforward.

I ask that the Minister to keep a close eye on the Bill as it passes through Parliament, becomes an Act and is enforced, to check on what we commonly call mission creep and to ensure that the powers exercised under these clauses do not, for unnecessary reasons, become too commonplace. For example, some agencies may unnecessarily share a little too information, in a way that is not relevant to an enforcement activity. We can all get behind enforcement activities where proper due process is followed, but there can sometimes be mission creep, which can stretch into realms that a reasonable person would not say was acceptable.

[Greg Smith]

My hon. Friend eloquently—probably more eloquently than me—gets across the point I was trying to make. Where the wording of legislation is open to wider interpretation, mission creep is often the unintended consequence. I have no doubt the Minister does not want to see that mission creep and wants safeguards in place. However, to my hon. Friend’s point, it would be good if the Minister explained to the Committee when he sums up—or committed to doing so on Report—what safeguards can be put in place to ensure that mission creep does not happen and that elements of information sharing not relevant to a direct, live enforcement investigation or prosecution are not allowed to be shared, as well as the impingements that that would bring on businesses across our country.

[Justin Madders]

The shadow Minister makes a reasonable point. Of course, this will all be subject to data protection legislation and the safeguards contained therein. It is also the case that, if the Secretary of State wishes to expand the list of bodies with which information is shared, there is a requirement to amend that list by way of affirmation regulation, giving parliamentary oversight.

Question put and agreed to.

Clause 98 accordingly ordered to stand part of the Bill.

Schedule 5

Persons to whom information may be disclosed under section 98

[Justin Madders]

I beg to move amendment 97, in schedule 5, page 130, line 22, at end insert—

“The Pensions Ombudsman.”

This amendment would enable information obtained in connection with the exercise of enforcement functions under Part 5 of the Bill to be disclosed to the Pensions Ombudsman for the purposes of the Ombudsman’s functions.

[The Chair]

With this it will be convenient to discuss Government amendments 171, 98 to 100, and 172 to 174.

[Justin Madders]

This is a large grouping again, and I will turn first to Government amendments 97 to 100. Open, two-way information sharing with the regulator is what clause 98 and schedule 5 are all about. These amendments add Scottish health bodies to schedule 5, which will support those bodies in fulfilling their functions. This has been agreed by Scottish Government officials and the bodies themselves.

Amendment 97 also adds the Pensions Ombudsman to schedule 5. Fair work agency inspectors may come across useful pension information that will help the Pensions Ombudsman in its duties, and it is right that they can share that information. The amendments stand to benefit the bodies concerned and the public by allowing the Secretary of State to share information obtained by the fair work agency that is relevant to the functions of those bodies.

Amendments 171 to 174 are about where the fair work agency, in fulfilling its statutory duties, is likely to obtain information that would be beneficial to other statutory bodies. Clause 98(5) gives the Secretary of State the power to disclose certain information to the persons specified in schedule 5. Amendments 171 to 174 add additional public bodies in the devolved nations to schedule 5. Amendment 171 adds the National Crime Agency, amendment 172 adds Social Care Wales, amendment 173 adds the Health and Social Care Regulation and Quality Improvement Authority in Northern Ireland, and amendment 174 adds Welsh Ministers.

The amendments will enable information obtained in connection with the exercise of part 5 enforcement functions to be disclosed to those bodies for the purposes of their functions. The amendments stand to benefit those bodies and the public by allowing the Secretary of State to share information with those bodies that is obtained by the fair work agency and that is relevant to its functions, where the disclosure is relevant to the exercise of those bodies’ own functions. The amendments have all been agreed by the relevant bodies, and on that basis I commend them to the Committee.

[Greg Smith]

As the Minister said, this is a relatively substantial grouping of amendments, and he outlined very clearly what they all seek to do. I will merely pose a couple of questions so that we can get into some of the practicalities of the amendments.

What purpose does the Minister envisage for the data that will be shared with pensions, healthcare and social care services? How do the Government intend to use the powers in those settings, and what safeguards will be in place? I think we all understand the need for information sharing with a lot of the organisations he outlined, but it seems strange to include healthcare, social services and —to many extents—pension operators. If he could give the Committee some practical examples of where he feels that is necessary, it would help us to consider the amendments more clearly before coming to a determination.

[Justin Madders]

The shadow Minister lays down a challenge for me. On the Pensions Ombudsman—I will certainly write to him if anything occurs to me after consultation with officials—it is not unusual for an individual’s payslip or contract to indicate that pension deductions have been made, when they have not actually reached the appropriate pension funds. That may be one example of where such a reference could be made.

The shadow Minister will be aware from the Low Pay Commission’s recent reports that health and social care are the sectors where some of the worst labour market abuses are ongoing, so it is important that we are sighted of particular issues in those sectors. I will take further advice on any other specific examples I might be able to give him, and I will write to him in due course.

Amendment 97 agreed to.

Amendments made: 171, in schedule 5, page 130, line 29, at end insert—

“The National Crime Agency.”

This amendment would enable information obtained in connection with the exercise of enforcement functions under Part 5 of the Bill to be disclosed to the National Crime Agency for the purposes of its functions.

Amendment 98, in schedule 5, page 131, line 20, at end insert—

“Healthcare Improvement Scotland.”

This amendment would enable information obtained in connection with the exercise of enforcement functions under Part 5 of the Bill to be disclosed to Healthcare Improvement Scotland for the purposes of its functions.

Amendment 99, in schedule 5, page 131, line 20, at end insert—

“Social Care and Social Work Improvement Scotland.”

This amendment would enable information obtained in connection with the exercise of enforcement functions under Part 5 of the Bill to be disclosed to Social Care and Social Work Improvement Scotland for the purposes of its functions.

Amendment 100, in schedule 5, page 131, line 20, at end insert—

“The Scottish Social Services Council.”

This amendment would enable information obtained in connection with the exercise of enforcement functions under Part 5 of the Bill to be disclosed to the Scottish Social Services Council for the purposes of its functions.

Amendment 172, in schedule 5, page 131, line 20, at end insert—

“Social Care Wales.”

This amendment would enable information obtained in connection with the exercise of enforcement functions under Part 5 of the Bill to be disclosed to Social Care Wales for the purposes of its functions.

Amendment 173, in schedule 5, page 131, line 20, at end insert—

“The Health and Social Care Regulation and Quality Improvement Authority in Northern Ireland.”

This amendment would enable information obtained in connection with the exercise of enforcement functions under Part 5 of the Bill to be disclosed to the Health and Social Care Regulation and Quality Improvement Authority for the purposes of its functions.

Amendment 174, in schedule 5, page 131, line 23, at end insert—

“The Welsh Ministers.”—(Justin Madders.)

This amendment would enable information obtained in connection with the exercise of enforcement functions under Part 5 of the Bill to be disclosed to the Welsh Ministers for the purposes of their functions.

Question proposed, That the schedule, as amended, be the Fifth schedule to the Bill.

[Justin Madders]

I will not detain the Committee long. Schedule 5 is the list of bodies with which information can be shared, which obviously now includes the Pensions Ombudsman. As I have indicated, any further bodies would need to be added to the list by affirmative regulations.

[Greg Smith]

We accept the list, but welcome the Minister’s commitment from the previous debate to provide clarity on the organisations on it. We need greater reassurance on those, but for the time being I will certainly not object to the schedule.

Question put and agreed to.

Schedule 5, as amended, accordingly agreed to.

Clause 99 ordered to stand part of the Bill.

Clause 100

Restriction on disclosure of HMRC information

Question proposed, That the clause stand part of the Bill.

[Justin Madders]

Data from His Majesty’s Revenue and Customs will be crucial for the investigation and enforcement of many different employment rights beyond the national minimum wage, which HMRC is specifically tasked to enforce on behalf of the Secretary of State. However, much of HMRC’s data is understandably confidential, and it is therefore prudent to require an extra level of approval before information shared by HMRC is disclosed further.

The clause restricts the disclosure of that information without authorisation from the commissioners of HMRC. If information is inadvertently shared without approval, section 19 of the Commissioners for Revenue and Customs Act 2005, on wrongful disclosure, applies. The result could be a fine and/or imprisonment for the individual committing the offence. The clause ensures information-sharing best practice across Government and puts in place an appropriate safeguard around the sharing of HMRC data.

[Greg Smith]

On the face of it, this is a sensible clause with appropriate safeguards around HMRC data. The only note of caution I would throw into the mix when involving HMRC in any investigation is that there are arm’s length bodies and then there are arm’s length bodies, and it is well known that HRMC can often prove very independent, if I may put it that way, when it comes to such investigations. I know—and this is relevant—from other work I do, including as chairman of the loan charge and taxpayer fairness all-party parliamentary group, that there can sometimes be some difficulties and challenges in terms of HMRC’s ability to share data and its willingness to engage in a straightforward conversation, even with other enforcement agencies.

I encourage the Minister, prior to enforcement of this legislation, to work with his colleagues in the Treasury team—his right hon. Friend the Chancellor and, more importantly, the Economic Secretary to the Treasury—to find the most straightforward way of getting an agreement in place with HMRC on these enforcement activities, because there are too many tales of woe from other areas, such as the loan charge, in which I take a particular interest on behalf of a number of constituents and which must be got right. HMRC is a body that many right hon. and hon. Friends have found it difficult to get straightforward answers out of under all sorts of Governments—blue ones, red ones and coalition ones—over recent years. I encourage the Minister to do that due diligence and work to ensure that, metaphorically speaking, all the ducks are in a row.

[Justin Madders]

The shadow Minister raises some fair points. I commend him for the work he does on the loan charge, and that all-party group is important. Certainly, HMRC’s functions in terms of the fair work agency will be focused on national minimum wage enforcement. I do not think that that is an area where we have some of the difficulties the shadow Minister referred to, but of course we will make sure. The intention in the clause is to make sure that appropriate safeguards are indeed in place.

Question put and agreed to.

Clause 100 accordingly ordered to stand part of the Bill.

Clause 101

Restriction on disclosure of intelligence service information

[Justin Madders]

I beg to move amendment 175, in clause 101, page 95, line 11, leave out from “person” to end of line 12 and insert

“to disclose information to an enforcing authority where—

(a) the person is serving in an intelligence service, or

(b) the information is intelligence service information.”

This amendment would provide that clause 98(2) does not authorise the disclosure of intelligence service information.

[The Chair]

With this it will be convenient to discuss Government amendment 176.

[Justin Madders]

When carrying out investigatory and enforcement activity, the enforcement officers will need to obtain information relevant to the Secretary of State’s enforcement functions. That is why clause 98(2) permits the disclosure of information to the Secretary of State or an enforcement officer if the disclosure is made in connection with an enforcement function. But there is a need to ensure that certain categories of information are treated differently, given their likely sensitive nature or content.

One such category is intelligence service information. The chiefs of the intelligence services are under statutory obligations to make sure that information relating to their service is not disclosed unless to do so is in accordance with certain requirements. Clause 101 therefore sets out restrictions on the disclosure of intelligence service information, to ensure that the Bill is consistent with those obligations.

Clause 101(1), as introduced, refers only to persons serving in an intelligence service. After discussion with the intelligence services, it is clear that there is a need to ensure that intelligence service information held by third parties is also protected, so Government amendment 175 widens the restriction at clause 101(1) to ensure that clause 98(2) does not require third parties to disclose intelligence service information to an enforcement officer.

Government amendment 176 is consequential on amendment 175. Amendment 176 inserts wording into clause 101(1) to clarify that the restriction on persons serving in an intelligence service from disclosing information under clause 98(2) does not affect disclosures that such persons could make under intelligence service disclosure arrangements.

These amendments protect intelligence service information from disclosure. They are part of a series of amendments that aim to balance the need to preserve the work that the intelligence services do in protecting key national interests with ensuring that the fair work agency can exercise its functions where necessary. On that basis, I commend the amendments to the Committee.

[Greg Smith]

When it comes to protecting our intelligence services, it turns out that the Minister is not Dr No after all. [Interruption.] I think we will leave it there. The point that I have made so many times is that it is right to protect and exempt our intelligence services to ensure that they can get on with the work they need to do, with the right level of confidentiality, and that the vital work done to protect our country is at all times protected. Therefore, we welcome the amendments, but, as ever, we ask why it has taken until the Bill is in Committee to work out that position and the vital importance of exemptions for the intelligence services.

Amendment 175 agreed to.

Amendments made: 176, in clause 101, page 95, line 13, leave out “such a person” and insert

“a person serving in an intelligence service”.

This amendment is consequential on Amendment 175.

Amendment 177, in clause 101, page 95, line 24, after “from” insert “, or relating to,”.

This amendment is consequential on Amendment 181.

Amendment 178, in clause 101, page 95, line 27, after “from” insert “, or relating to,”.

This amendment is consequential on Amendment 181.

Amendment 179, in clause 101, page 95, line 29, after “from” insert “, or relating to,”.

This amendment is consequential on Amendment 181.

Amendment 180, in clause 101, page 95, leave out lines 32 to 36.

This amendment is consequential on amendment 205.

Amendment 181, in clause 101, page 96, line 7, leave out “from” and insert

“directly or indirectly from, or that relates to,”.—(Justin Madders.)

This amendment amends the definition of “intelligence service information” so that it is consistent with NC49.

Question proposed, That the clause, as amended, stand part of the Bill.

[Justin Madders]

The clause ensures that intelligence service information is disclosed to the fair work agency only in accordance with intelligence service disclosure arrangements and cannot be shared by the fair work agency without authorisation from the appropriate service chief. In the course of investigating some employment rights abuses—for example, in cases of modern slavery or coercive employment practices—the fair work agency may make use of information provided by the intelligence services or come into possession of information relevant to the intelligence services. That information is likely to be highly sensitive in nature, and specific disclosure arrangements therefore apply.

The clause authorises a person serving in an intelligence service to make disclosures of information to an enforcement authority in accordance with intelligence service disclosure arrangements. It restricts the disclosure of intelligence service information by an enforcing authority without the authorisation of the appropriate service chief for the intelligence service from which the information was obtained. It is right that there are additional protections for this information, not least on national security grounds. I commend the clause to the Committee.

[Greg Smith]

Yes, absolutely—there is no issue for His Majesty’s loyal Opposition with the protection of our intelligence services.

Question put and agreed to.

Clause 101, as amended, accordingly ordered to stand part of the Bill.

Clause 102

Offence of failing to comply with LME order

Question proposed, That the clause stand part of the Bill.

[The Chair]

With this it will be convenient to discuss the following:

Clauses 103 and 104 stand part.

Government new clause 50—Providing false information or documents: national security etc defence.

[Justin Madders]

Clause 102 addresses the need for accountability and compliance with labour market enforcement orders. It creates a clear offence of failing to adhere to a labour market enforcement order without reasonable excuse, sending a strong message that non-compliance will not be tolerated. The clause ports over the existing offence in section 27 of the Immigration Act 2016 and does not create a new offence. The clause is essential to ensure that labour market enforcement orders hold real weight and authority in our legal framework.

The penalties under clause 102 are designed to be fair yet firm, with varying limits for summary conviction in England, Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland, and up to two years’ imprisonment or fine on conviction on indictment. The range of penalties enables the courts to respond proportionately to the severity of each offence, ensuring that justice is both accessible and effective across the UK. By maintaining meaningful penalties, we maintain a powerful deterrent against non-compliance, which encourages individuals and businesses to uphold their obligations and respect labour laws. The approach we have taken in the clause emphasises both accountability and fairness, ensuring consistent enforcement across jurisdictions.

I turn to clause 103. For the fair work agency to enforce effectively, it needs to rely on the information it gathers. Providing false information slows investigations down and slows down justice for workers. The clause therefore carries over and consolidates offences from predecessor legislation to create a single offence of providing false information. The clause provides that an offence is committed when a person

“produces, or knowingly causes or allows to be produced, any information or document”

that is materially false. It provides that an offence is committed when the person providing information is either aware that it is false when providing it or has not taken reasonable action to confirm its accuracy. The clause also sets out the penalties applicable in England, Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland. It is right that falsifying documents should carry a criminal penalty.

Clause 104 provides a vital tool in the arsenal of our labour enforcement officers. Employment rights enforcement is generally a civil regime, founded on consensual investigations. That is right and proportionate, but it is important that there is a clear course of action when individuals block or stymie investigations. The clause creates a single offence for anyone who intentionally obstructs an officer or fails, without reasonable excuse, to comply with their lawful requirements. In doing so, the clause consolidates similar offences in the predecessor legislation for the current enforcement bodies.

Clause 104 is fundamental to ensuring that enforcement officers can perform their duties without interference, which is essential for effective labour market oversight. Obstructing officers’ work undermines these efforts, delaying investigations and weakening compliance. The clause directly addresses this issue by establishing clear consequences for those who intentionally hinder enforcement officers in the execution of their duties. The penalties in the clause are proportionate but firm, with tailored limits across UK jurisdictions. This approach ensures consistent consequences for obstruction, reinforcing compliance with employment rights law and protecting workers’ rights, fostering a safer and fairer labour market.

--- Later in debate ---

[Greg Smith]

I agree with the hon. Gentleman that this is a well-established form of wording, and I do not think there is anything between our positions on national security. However, even if it is well entrenched in previous legislation, leaving “economic wellbeing” so ill-defined presents an open goal to those who would wish to abuse that definition. Indeed, if we had proposed such a broad and ill-defined Opposition amendment, I am sure that Government Members would start to use terms such as “wrecking amendment”, and so on, and to talk about opening up the legislation far too widely.

Although we are not opposed to the spirit and the letter of the bulk of new clause 50, it would be helpful, before this legislation goes any further, if the Minister gave a serious, detailed and clear explanation of what he means by the economic wellbeing of the United Kingdom, and a guarantee that this will not be used, potentially through misinterpretation, by those in the legal profession such that what the Minister wishes to achieve through this legislation could fall down and be found wanting.

[Justin Madders]

The first thing to say is that the new clause came at the request of the security services, so it is not a whim on the Department’s part, and it applies specifically to the offence under clause 103 of providing false information. It would be rather rash of me to start talking about situations in which that might apply. I understand the hon. Member’s point about the wider economic test being quite broad, but as my hon. Friend the Member for Birmingham Northfield said, that is the established test in legislation. Given that we are talking about a defence to a specific offence under clause 103, I would suggest that the chance of this being frequently used, or indeed misused, is extremely remote, although as I say, it would be improper for me to speculate on the circumstances in which it might be used, given the sensitivities around the proposals.

Question put and agreed to.

Clause 102 accordingly ordered to stand part of the Bill.

Clauses 103 and 104 ordered to stand part of the Bill.

Clause 105

Offences by bodies corporate

Question proposed, That the clause stand part of the Bill.

[The Chair]

With this it will be convenient to discuss clauses 106 to 108.

[Justin Madders]

Clause 105 applies the offences in part 5 of the Bill to corporate bodies. It is a standard clause that can be found in predecessor legislation, such as section 27 of the Immigration Act 2016. The clause ensures accountability at both the organisational and individual levels, and practicality in legislation. It makes certain that those complicit in the offence can be held personally liable.

Clause 106 applies the offences in part 5 of the Bill to partnerships; clause 107 applies them to unincorporated associations. Subsections (5) and (6) of clause 107 specify that liability is attached to those who committed the offence with consent or who were negligent regarding the offence, as well as to the association. Unincorporated associations play a significant role in various sectors, including sports and community services. These two clauses ensure that all business structures are subject to enforcement. They are standard clauses that are found in predecessor legislation, such as section 30 of the Immigration Act 2016.

Clause 108 sets out how the provisions of part 5 of the Bill relating to the enforcement of labour market legislation apply to the Crown and parliamentary estate. Clause 108(1) provides that all provisions in part 5 are binding on the Crown. Subsection (2) defines Crown premises as any premises

“held or used by or on behalf of the Crown”.

This means that fair work agency inspectors can enter and inspect Crown premises using powers set out earlier in the Bill. We believe this is right. The Crown employs individuals who are entitled to rights in scope of the fair work agency’s remit. The clause will enable officers to carry out investigations and gather information to ensure that the rights of Crown employees are as effectively enforced as other employees’ rights.

The clause also contains certain exemptions that we believe are justified. First, subsection (6) exempts the King’s private estates from the powers of entry. The King’s private estates are defined in the Crown Private Estates Act 1862. They are distinguished from Crown premises. They are not defined as premises used in connection with Crown business and employing staff. Secondly, subsection (6) also exempts

“premises occupied for the purposes of either House of Parliament”

from the powers of entry. The main premises we would expect the fair work agency to enter in relation to Parliament would be the offices of MPs and peers. The wording here ensures that the exemption is wide enough to exempt Members’ offices in the Palace of Westminster and those beyond it. This exemption reflects standard practice.

I want to draw the Committee’s attention to amendments we have tabled for national security reasons. Clause 108(5) of the Bill as introduced enables the Secretary of State to exempt Crown premises from powers of entry where they deem it necessary for national security reasons. The starting point of the current drafting is that powers of entry apply generally and need to be disapplied. The exemption applies only to investigations of Crown premises that would have national security implications.

Government new clause 49 restricts the exercise of powers in clauses 78 and 79 in relation to the intelligence services, unless the Secretary of State is satisfied that use of the powers would not be prejudicial to national security, the prevention or detection of serious crime, or the economic wellbeing of the UK. The new clause requires the Secretary of State to issue a certificate before the powers can be exercised. Government amendment 182 amends clause 108(1) to provide textual consistency and ensure the new clause functions as intended. Our amendments strike a balance to ensure that the fair work agency is able to investigate the security agencies where necessary, while also ensuring that the powers are not used in a way that could damage the UK’s security interests.

Question put and agreed to.

Clause 105 accordingly ordered to stand part of the Bill.

Clauses 106 and 107 ordered to stand part of the Bill.

Clause 108

Application of this Part to the Crown

Amendment made: 182, in clause 108, page 100, line 2, after “of” insert

“section (Information relating to the intelligence services, etc) and”.—(Justin Madders.)

This amendment is consequential on NC49.

Clause 108, as amended, ordered to stand part of the Bill.

Clause 109

Abolition of existing enforcement authorities

Question proposed, That the clause stand part of the Bill.

[Justin Madders]

Our aim is that the fair work agency will bring together existing state enforcement functions in one place. Delivering this aim means abolishing two existing bodies involved in enforcement of workers’ rights—the Gangmasters and Labour Abuse Authority and the Director of Labour Market Enforcement—and transferring their functions to the Secretary of State. Clause 109 does that.

The function of enforcing the licensing regime for gangmasters and the GLAA’s responsibilities for enforcing aspects of the Modern Slavery Act 2015 will be transferred to the Secretary of State and carried out by fair work agency enforcement officers. The Director of Labour Market Enforcement’s oversight and reporting functions will also be transferred to the Secretary of State. They are replaced by the new duties on the Secretary of State set out in clauses 75 to 77. Clause 75 requires the Secretary of State to set up an advisory board, and there are also the requirements on an enforcement strategy and annual report.

Abolishing these two bodies is a key part of streamlining the current system of employment rights enforcement, which is fragmented and ineffective. It is not about reducing functionality or enforcement capability. In fact, because of the reforms we are making, we hope that the fair work agency will be greater than the sum of its parts. Employment rights will be enforced more effectively and efficiently, which will be fairer for businesses and workers, and there will be greater clarity on where people need to go to seek help.

[Greg Smith]

Broadly speaking, the clause is uncontroversial. We accept the need to streamline enforcement activities and put them under one roof, notwithstanding my comments about understanding the costs of putting that enforcement body together.

Since we are debating the Employment Rights Bill, I feel it is incumbent on me to pose a question to the Minister as we talk about the abolition, as opposed to the transfer, of existing bodies with existing employees. The term “abolition” has a clear legal meaning, unlike other language that could have been used with respect to the transfer of powers. Will any of the existing employees who engage in enforcement activity under the bodies being abolished by the clause receive redundancy notices? Are they being put out of work or moved to some other part of Government that is not directly related to this enforcement activity, or will all those employees be directly transferred at the discretion of the Secretary of State and deployed under the new agency?

This is an important test of the Bill. Here we have some of the first employees who will be affected by its new provisions. What will happen to those—no doubt very good—people who are currently working as part of the Gangmasters and Labour Abuse Authority and the Director of Labour Market Enforcement? Upon the enactment of the Bill, they will be among the very first people in our country to work out what their employment rights are.

[Justin Madders]

I welcome the shadow Minister’s commitment to workers’ rights; it seems that listening to me for several weeks has finally rubbed off on him. At this stage, it would be premature for me to say that we intend for any redundancies to transpire. The clear presumption, as we move forward, is that all existing staff will transfer over under existing legal protections. Clearly, other issues may arise when we get into the operational detail, and I do not think that it would be appropriate to talk about workforce matters in a Bill Committee; that ought to be discussed with the workforce first. As I say, my clear understanding at this stage is that all staff will be transferring over, because we have a job to do to ensure that the labour market is enforced properly, and we need everyone on board to do that.

Question put and agreed to.

Clause 109 accordingly ordered to stand part of the Bill.

Clause 110

Consequential and transitional provision

Question proposed, That the clause stand part of the Bill.

[Justin Madders]

The clause introduces schedules 6 and 7, which make consequential amendments and transitional provisions required to deliver this change. Schedule 6 sets out consequential amendments we are making to various Acts of Parliament as a result of these reforms. Part 1 of schedule 6 covers the consequential amendments to existing powers under relevant pieces of labour market legislation. Part 2 of the schedule sets out the changes required to other Acts.

Schedule 7 sets out transitional and savings provisions we need in place to set up the new body. Part 1 of schedule 7 gives powers to the Secretary of State to make transfer schemes to move staff, property, rights and liabilities of the GLAA and DLME to the Secretary of State. Part 2 of schedule 7 provides for other necessary transitional provisions, such as to ensure that smooth sharing of information can continue and to retain provisions that devolved legislation relies on. The clause and the schedules it introduces are necessary to deliver a functioning statute book and to deliver on the policy intention of upgrading enforcement of workers’ rights.

[Greg Smith]

My thoughts on the clause are similar to those I expressed on the last clause we debated. The language of this one is a little clearer, so the Opposition do not object to it.

Question put and agreed to.

Clause 110 accordingly ordered to stand part of the Bill.

Schedule 6

Consequential amendments relating to Part 5

[Justin Madders]

I beg to move amendment 101, in schedule 6, page 133, line 7, at end insert

“and the italic heading before that section.”

This amendment makes a further consequential amendment to the National Minimum Wage Act 1998.

[The Chair]

With this it will be convenient to discuss Government amendments 102 and 103.

[Justin Madders]

Schedule 6 outlines consequential amendments to other existing legislation. It ensures consistency with the new provisions introduced by the Bill, which is important to make our legislative framework cohesive and functional.

Amendment 101 ensures textual consistency by removing the italic heading before section 13 of the National Minimum Wage Act 1998. Section 13 is repealed by the Bill. The change is entirely technical, to make sure that all aspects of the legislation are properly aligned and clear for interpretation. Such amendments are common practice when integrating changes into existing legislation and ensure accuracy in our statutory framework. I hope Members will support this uncontroversial and important amendment as it facilitates the clarity and precision of the legislation.

Amendment 102 corrects a small drafting error in schedule 6, and amendment 103 is a consequential change to align with amendment 102. They do not affect the substance of the Bill, but maintain its quality and accuracy.

[Greg Smith]

These are very minor amendments, to which the Opposition do not object.

Amendment 101 agreed to.

Ordered, That further consideration be now adjourned. —(Anna McMorrin.)

Employment Rights Bill (Fifteenth sitting)

Justin Madders Excerpts

Committee stage
Tuesday 7th January 2025 Public Bill Committees

[The Chair]

May I begin by wishing everyone a happy new year? Will everyone please ensure that all electronic devices are turned off or switched to silent mode? We will now continue line-by-line consideration of the Bill. The grouping and selection list for today’s sittings is available in the room and on the parliamentary website. I remind Members about the rules on declaration of interests, as set out in the code of conduct.

Clause 45

Right to statement of trade union rights

Question proposed, That the clause stand part of the Bill.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Business and Trade (Justin Madders)]

Good morning, Mr Mundell. It is a pleasure to see you in the Chair. Happy new year to you and to all members of the Committee. I start by making my customary reference to my declarations in the Register of Members’ Financial Interests.

This, I hope, is a fairly straightforward and uncontroversial clause; it does exactly what it says on the tin. Currently, there is no general requirement for employers to let their staff know of their right to join a trade union. The clause introduces a legal duty for employers to inform all new employees of their right to join a union and to remind all staff of that right at prescribed intervals. Employers must provide this information alongside the written statement of particulars that they are already required to produce under section 1 of the Employment Rights Act 1996. Specific details, including the frequency and manner of notification, will be set out in secondary legislation following consultation.

A lack of awareness of the right to join a trade union may be contributing to declining union membership and reduced worker engagement in collective bargaining. The clause will help empower workers to become active in protecting their rights. This is a step forward in strengthening worker representation and the collective voice in the workplace, ultimately supporting more effective collective bargaining. I therefore commend the clause to the Committee.

[Greg Smith (Mid Buckinghamshire) (Con)]

It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Mr Mundell, and I too wish you and all members of the Committee a very happy, prosperous and healthy new year. If only the optimism of that statement were matched by business confidence around the country as we start this new year.

I understand why the Government want to take this measure, and it is pretty clear that it will happen as part of the Bill. As the Minister prepares for the consultation that he spoke about, I ask him to reflect on how quickly we can give businesses certainty on the frequency with which they will have to remind their employees of their right to join a trade union. Of course everyone has a right to join a trade union—there is no issue with that—but this is yet another thing that HR departments of bigger businesses, and individual owners of smaller businesses, who have to do everything from the HR function down to replacing the loo roll in the toilets, will have to remember to do on a regular basis, and presumably they will face consequences if they do not. It might not seem onerous as we talk about it at half-past 9 on a Tuesday morning in Westminster, but once we start ratcheting up all these different things for businesses—particularly those very small businesses—to do, it will become a burden.

The other thing that I gently ask the Minister to consider as part of his consultation is this. Would it not be a fairer, more balanced and better way of doing things to have in the proposed statement, as well as a reminder to employees of their right to join a trade union, a reminder that they do not have to do so—that there is equally a right not to join a trade union if they do not wish to? It would be much more fair and balanced if the consultation focused on ensuring that both sides are equally reflected—yes, a reminder that there is a right to join a trade union, but equally, a reminder that there is no compulsion and no absolute, set-in-stone requirement to do so. If we could have that, the clause would be much more balanced.

[Sir Ashley Fox (Bridgwater) (Con)]

It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Mr Mundell, and I wish you and other colleagues a happy new year.

I want to follow on from the comments made by the shadow Minister, my hon. Friend the Member for Mid Buckinghamshire, and emphasise that the clause is completely pointless. Of course all workers have the right to join a trade union and the right not to join a trade union. Will the Minister outline the consequences for a small employer of not complying with the clause? Will there be a penalty? Will the employer be taken to a tribunal that can make a protective award? If there will not be a penalty, surely the clause is only performative, and just more evidence that the Government are doing what their trade union masters are telling them to.

Time and again in the Bill, we see measures that are small and inconsequential individually, but in total mount up to £5 billion of additional costs, most of them on small and medium-sized businesses. We see from surveys of business confidence that businesses are reeling under the imposition of additional taxes and of these rights, and the Government’s business-unfriendly stance. While the Minister talks about growth, the actions of his Government point to the very opposite. They believe that somehow they can regulate their way to growth. We start this new year with more regulation from the Government, none of which will contribute to the wealth and prosperity of our citizens.

[Justin Madders]

There was a mix of responses there. We heard from the hon. Member for Torbay that the Liberal Democrats welcome the clause, I think the shadow Minister was generally supportive, albeit not explicitly, and then the hon. Member for Bridgwater was fairly critical. I will address the points made by all three individuals.

The shadow Minister made a fair point that the frequency with which employees will have to be notified is important. That will be determined by the responses that we get to the consultation. Clearly, we do not want to make this measure too onerous, but we believe that it is important as a matter of principle that employees are aware of their right to join a trade union, for all the reasons that have been amply set out over many months and years.

On making it clear within a notification that the employee is not obliged to join a trade union, I am sure the shadow Minister is aware that the closed shop principle was abolished quite some time ago—possibly not even in his lifetime. [Interruption.] Well, possibly not; perhaps his rest over the Christmas period has made him look more youthful than he is. The precise wording of the notification will be set out in secondary legislation. I am sure it will not be worded in a way that indicates that there is a compulsion on individuals to join a trade union, but it is important that people know of the right.

In reference to the comments from the Liberal Democrat spokesperson, the hon. Member for Torbay, I too have had many conversations with constituents who have notified me of issues with their workplace. I hope most Members respond with the question, “What has your trade union said about this?” When I ask that, quite often I get the response, “My employer doesn’t allow us to join a trade union.” That response is far too common for my liking. Evidence has been submitted to the Committee, particularly by the Union of Shop, Distributive and Allied Workers, about the lack of awareness of employees’ right to join a trade union. In a free society, we should be ensuring that people are aware of their rights.

On the points made by the hon. Member for Bridgwater, the consequences for not notifying an individual of this right will be the same as they currently are for failure to provide a statement of terms and conditions under section 38 of the Employment Act 2002. It is not a free- standing claim on its own; it can be put on top of another employment tribunal claim, and the penalty can be between two and four weeks’ pay.

On the administrative burden, there is already prescribed in legislation a long list of matters about which the employer must notify the employee when they join in a statement of terms and conditions. Really, we are just adding this to that list. We think this is an important measure.

[Sir Ashley Fox]

I think this comes together with day one employment rights. Take the example of a very small businessman or woman who takes someone on with no written contract, and within a week or two the employment does not work out and the employee is fired. They might be within a—what is the word for the period of time in the first few weeks of employment?

[Justin Madders]

Probation.

[Sir Ashley Fox]

Probation period—thank you. It is early in the new year, Mr Mundell. That member of staff might be within their probation period, but if that is not specified in a written contract, that dismissal would be procedurally unfair, according to the Bill. If that same small businessman or woman has not notified the employee of their right to join a trade union, the Minister seems to be saying that the employee will get a protective award of another two to four weeks’ salary on top of that. Can he not see that for microbusinesses, the array of sanctions becomes threatening—many weeks’ wages, for a very short contract that did not work out—and that he threatens to make it very difficult and onerous for them to take on new employees?

[Justin Madders]

I understand the point the hon. Member makes. I do not think it is helpful to get into hypotheticals about what might or might not happen under the statutory probation system, given that we have not really fleshed out the details. That will happen in due course, but it is already the law that statements of terms and conditions are required to be presented to employees, I think within the first month. There is not an additional burden of extra paperwork that has to be delivered; this is already built into the system, in terms of ensuring that employees receive their statement of terms and conditions when they start employment.

On that note, I commend the clause to the Committee.

Question put and agreed to.

Clause 45 accordingly ordered to stand part of the Bill.

Clause 46

Right of trade unions to access workplaces

[Justin Madders]

I beg to move amendment 72, in clause 46, page 50, line 30, leave out “listed” and insert “qualifying”.

This amendment and other amendments to this clause would require a trade union to have a certificate of independence in order to have the rights provided for in the clause.

[The Chair]

With this it will be convenient to consider Government amendments 73 and 75 to 79.

--- Later in debate ---

[Justin Madders]

The clause makes provision for trade unions and employers to negotiate access agreements, under which employers will be required to permit trade union officials to enter workplaces for various purposes, such as recruitment, organising, and meeting and providing support to existing members. This is particularly significant for unrecognised unions. Access to a workplace can provide an opportunity to recruit and organise with the aim of gaining formal recognition.

The Bill currently provides that any listed trade unions can apply for access to a workplace. Under the current definition, it is possible that employers could use staff associations and non-independent bodies to frustrate independent trade unions’ access to the workplace. Therefore, proposed amendments 72, 73 and 75 to 79 require trade unions to have a certificate of independence issued by the Certification Officer to qualify for access.

The amendments will ensure that clause 46 is used as intended. The clause will ensure that independent unions can initiate and agree access agreements with an employer, while not affecting the existing ability of non-independent bodies to negotiate voluntary access agreements. Amendment 73 inserts the defined term “qualifying trade union” and defines it as a union that has a certificate of independence issued by the Certification Officer. That will apply to proposed new chapter 5ZA of the Trade Union and Labour Relations (Consolidation) Act 1992 only, and amendments 72 and 75 to 79 update other provisions that refer to “listed” trade unions accordingly.

[Greg Smith]

As the Minister clearly outlined, the requirement for a trade union to have a certificate of independence to have the rights provided for in clause 46 is a tidying up of the Bill. The Opposition are not entirely on board with the spirit of the Bill in this regard, but we welcome its being tidied up and the clarity that the amendments bring to what the Government are trying to do to prevent even more of a free-for-all in terms of access to workplaces.

I have said many times that it is a shame and regrettable that so many of these tidying-up amendments have had to be tabled. Welcome though they are in bringing certainty to businesses about the Bill’s core provisions, if we had not had that arbitrary 100-day deadline, we probably would not be spending our time going through these sorts of amendments, and could instead be debating much more of the substance of the Bill. As I say, the Opposition are not convinced about some of the core provisions of the Bill, but these particular amendments do at least tidy it up to some extent.

[The Chair]

Minister, do you wish to say anything further?

[Justin Madders]

Just that I welcome the support from the shadow Minister, albeit for the wording rather than the spirit of the amendment.

Amendment 72 agreed to.

Amendment made: 73, in clause 46, page 51, leave out lines 1 and 2 and insert—

“(3) A ‘qualifying trade union’ is a trade union that has a certificate of independence.”—(Justin Madders.)

See the explanatory statement to amendment 72.

[Justin Madders]

I beg to move amendment 74, in clause 46, page 51, line 4, at end insert—

“(4A) ‘Workplace’ does not include any part of a workplace used as a dwelling.”.

This amendment would ensure that the right of access does not include access to dwellings.

This important amendment adds some clarity about the right of access to a workplace, providing an exemption so that the right of physical access does not apply to private dwellings such as the private homes of workers who are working either fully from their home or in a hybrid manner between their workplace and their home. Most exemptions will be provided for and set out in detail in secondary legislation, but we think it is important to set out this principle in the Bill.

We will provide in secondary legislation and guidance more detail on how complex physical access cases, such as care homes, where premises are a mix of residential and a workplace, will be negotiated. To protect the privacy of people living in the premises, that could, for example, set out the terms that it is reasonable for the trade union to comply with when exercising access, for example limiting access to parts of the premises that are used by workers only, and specifying that unions should take a specific route to the particular room where access activities are due to take place. That sort of detail will be set out in secondary legislation following consultation.

[Greg Smith]

As the Minister says, the amendment ensures that the right of unions to access workplaces does not extend to dwellings. Of course the Opposition welcome that the Government have acknowledged that trade unions should not be able to access private dwellings. The fact that the Bill was introduced in such a manner that would have permitted trade unions to do so begs a number of worrying questions about the speed with which the Bill was drafted. The fact that we are debating whether a trade union should have access to someone’s private dwelling is deeply regrettable. I would have hoped that the Government, from first principles, would acknowledge that it was never an acceptable outcome for anyone to have their own home invaded by a trade union or otherwise.

The way people set up their homeworking arrangements within their own dwelling is very much a matter for them. Balancing what they do in their own home with their family life and perhaps their children’s needs or the needs of someone they are caring for, and the way they structure that should, of course, remain entirely private. This is just another example of the damage that can inadvertently be done when legislation that is not ready is introduced to this House. It makes us question what other mistakes, if I may call them that, are lurking in the Bill that are still yet to be spotted by the Bill Committee.

--- Later in debate ---

[Greg Smith]

I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman for his intervention. I understand his fundamental point, but before the Government tabled the amendment a feasible interpretation of the rules would have allowed access to a private dwelling. We can all stand or sit here in Committee Room 10 of the House of Commons and think how preposterous that would be and how that it never actually happen, but there are plenty of examples in history where the preposterous has come to be—where someone’s interpretation of legislation or rules or regulations or whatever it may be has brought about perverse outcomes.

We would have been in a much more satisfactory position had the Government, from first principles and at the very start, laid out in the Bill that someone’s private dwelling is just that: private. Although there has been an explosion in working from home and a fundamental shift, particularly in the post-pandemic world, of people actively choosing to work from home, either all the time where they can, or in a hybrid arrangement where they work from home for a couple of days a week and in the office, factory, warehouse or wherever it might be for the other days, it should be an enshrined principle in this country—the free society the Minister spoke of—that a private dwelling should from absolute, unquestionable first principle remain private, and not be an area to which a trade union or otherwise can freely demand access. It is important that private dwellings remain accessible only by warrant, which has to be granted by a magistrate, for clear purposes, such as where criminality or some such activity is suspected.

The Opposition welcome the core text of the amendment, but we want it firmly on the record that such an amendment should never have been required in the first place.

[Justin Madders]

I feel that we are going to have a few of these conversations again this year. Heaven forbid the previous Government ever amended anything in Committee! We knew the Bill was issued at a challenging pace and that it was large, so there were always going to be elements that needed clarification at this stage. It is right to do that now before it becomes law and well in advance of any practical application. Like amendment 72, this amendment is an example of us responding to concerns raised when the Bill was published. It is probably fair to say that no one actually envisaged trade unions marching into people’s homes, so it was not something we thought it necessary to spell out in the Bill, but that concern has been raised in feedback, and we are able to provide clarification and reassurance. I therefore commend the amendment to the Committee.

Amendment 74 agreed to.

Amendments made: 75, in clause 46, page 51, line 18, leave out “listed” and insert “qualifying”.

See the explanatory statement to amendment 72.

Amendment 76, in clause 46, page 52, line 13, leave out “listed” and insert “qualifying”.

See the explanatory statement to amendment 72.

Amendment 77, in clause 46, page 52, line 26, leave out “listed” and insert “qualifying”.

See the explanatory statement to amendment 72.

Amendment 78, in clause 46, page 53, line 36, leave out “listed” and insert “qualifying”.

See the explanatory statement to amendment 72.

Amendment 79, in clause 46, page 53, line 40, leave out “listed” and insert “qualifying”.—(Justin Madders.)

See the explanatory statement to amendment 72.

[Justin Madders]

I beg to move amendment 80, in clause 46, page 54, line 11, leave out from “circumstances” to “a determination” in line 13 and insert—

“in which it is to be regarded as reasonable for the Central Arbitration Committee to make”.

This amendment would clarify that, if circumstances are specified under subsection (4)(a), the effect of specifying those circumstances is that it is to be regarded as reasonable for the CAC to make a determination that officials of a union are not to have access (but without requiring the CAC to make such a determination).

[The Chair]

With this it will be convenient to discuss Government amendment 81.

[Justin Madders]

Proposed new section 70ZF(4)(a) of the Trade Union and Labour Relations (Consolidation) Act 1992 allows the Secretary of State to prescribe circumstances in which it would be reasonable for the Central Arbitration Committee to determine that a trade union is not to have access to a workplace. Amendment 80 is a minor technical amendment to clarify that, if circumstances are specified under proposed new section 70ZF(4)(a) of the Act, the effect of specifying those circumstances is that it is reasonable to make a determination that officials of a union are not to have access, but it does not require the CAC to make such a determination.

Amendment 81 allows the Secretary of State to prescribe in secondary legislation the matters to which the CAC must have regard when determining whether access is to be granted to a trade union. As an example, that would usefully allow the Secretary of State to prescribe that the CAC must, when making determinations about access, have regard to the presence of a trade union with existing access to the workplace to which another union is seeking access. In that scenario, the amendment provides reassurances that an access request will not be rejected by default if there is an existing arrangement with another trade union. The Government have consulted on the exact details of what the CAC is required to consider when making determinations about access, and secondary legislation will follow Royal Assent to the Bill. With that in mind, I commend the amendments to the Committee.

[Greg Smith]

As the Minister said, Government amendment 80 clarifies that if circumstances are specified under new section 70ZF(4)(a), the effect of specifying those circumstances is that it is to be regarded as reasonable of the CAC to make a determination that officials of a union are not to have access, but does not require the CAC to make such a determination. Government amendment 81 would allow the Secretary of State to prescribe matters to which the CAC must have regard when considering an application for a determination about access. Therefore, these amendments set out that if the Secretary of State has specified circumstances in which it would be reasonable to decline union access to a workplace, the CAC must accept those circumstances.

That is all well and good, but the access principles, as they are set out, are incredibly broad and make it very difficult for an employer to refuse access. For example, subsection (2)(a) of new section 70ZF specifies that

“officials of a listed trade union should be able to access a workplace for any of the access purposes in any manner that does not unreasonably interfere with the employer’s business”.

That accepts that access can and should be allowed to cause interference, but what would count as unreasonable interference? Can the Minister give any concrete examples? How will businesses know what they are or are not expected to put up with in terms of inconvenience and disruption to their operations? This all seems to be still particularly woolly and ill-defined. It will cause a lot of headaches and a lot of businesses to scratch their heads to work out what they have to put up with, bear the burden of, or lose profit to in order to enable some of the access that the Bill determines will take place.

The circumstances in which it would be reasonable for officials of a union not to have access will be specified in future regulations, but this is an area where it is incumbent on the Government to be very clear—indeed, crystal clear—about where the Minister or the Department feels these regulations should sit, or the operating window in which they should sit, moving away from woolly language and into real practical detail to allow businesses to begin to prepare. Can the Minister give any examples of matters that might be specified by the Secretary of State to set some constraints on the access principles envisaged by the amendments? I know he will say that he wishes to consult, which is all very well and good, but as I said a moment ago, this is an area where I do not think businesses will simply accept the offer of future consultation; they will instead want an operating window with practical examples and very clear language about what the amendments envisage will happen in the future. It is just not good enough for us to be left in this position of trying to second-guess and wonder what things will be like when the consultation finally happens.

[Steve Darling]

I will be concise and echo the shadow Minister’s call for clarity.

[Justin Madders]

I acknowledge the points made by the shadow Minister, but of course, as he has already anticipated, my response is that all of that will be determined in secondary legislation following a consultation. That is the right approach. The sort of detailed questions he is rightly posing are best dealt with in secondary legislation and probably in codes of practice as well. That is the kind of detail that would not normally find its way into a Bill. Of course, for me to prejudge any consultation on the circumstances in which it may or may not be appropriate for unions to gain access would of course, be to predetermine the outcome of the consultation.

--- Later in debate ---

[Justin Madders]

The shadow Minister tempts me to set out the kind of detail that I really cannot supply at this stage. Clearly, a consultation document will ask a series of fairly broad questions. Given that we will deal with pretty much every workplace in the country, the consultation will cover a range of different set-ups, businesses, places of work and working arrangements. The question at the start will necessarily be fairly broad, so we can understand the kinds of effects on their ability to carry on their business that firms are concerned about.

Equally, we want to hear from trade unions about their experiences of where they feel that they have unreasonably been refused access or perceived that that might be a risk. The shadow Minister is trying to get me to draw up a consultation document in the Bill Committee, but I am afraid I will have to decline to do so. Clearly, we will come back to this and talk about it in further detail at a later date.

Amendment 80 agreed to.

Amendment made: 81, in clause 46, page 54, line 27, at end insert—

“(6) The Secretary of State may prescribe matters to which the Central Arbitration Committee must have regard in considering an application for a determination under section 70ZE.”—(Justin Madders.)

This amendment would allow the Secretary of State to prescribe matters to which the CAC must have regard in considering an application for a determination about access.

[Justin Madders]

I beg to move amendment 82, in clause 46, page 57, line 37, at end insert—

“(c) dismiss the appeal.”

This amendment would clarify that the Employment Appeal Tribunal may dismiss an appeal under new section 70ZK(2) of the Trade Union and Labour Relations (Consolidation) Act 1992.

The amendment is straightforward, providing clarity that an Employment Appeal Tribunal can dismiss an appeal under the new section 70ZK(2) of the Trade Union and Labour Relations (Consolidation) Act 1992. It is a fairly straightforward and self-explanatory amendment.

[Greg Smith]

As the Minister said, the amendment clarifies that the Employment Appeal Tribunal may dismiss an appeal under new section 70ZK(2) of the Trade Union and Labour Relations (Consolidation) Act 1992. Of course the Opposition agree that this amendment should be accepted and put into the Bill, but it beggars belief that the amendment was necessary in the first place. Of course the Employment Appeal Tribunal should be allowed to dismiss an appeal if it finds that to be necessary, but how on earth was a Bill put before this House of Commons—this Parliament—that only envisaged that the tribunal might quash the order or make an order requiring the person to pay a reduced amount to the CAC? How was this Bill introduced in a form in which the dismissal of an appeal was not even an option?

It is extraordinary that a Bill could have been allowed through the write-around process—the various processes that Government have—without this anomaly being spotted and rectified before the Bill was presented and had its Second Reading debate. I gently ask the Minister to reflect on that and go back through the Bill’s provisions to double-check for any other glaring omissions, which I am sure he never wished to see in the first place and is now correcting by the amendment in his name. Could he ensure that the Bill contains no more of these, frankly, howling errors that could cause so much damage?

[Steve Darling]

Bill Committees are here to check for snags in the final construction of legislation. I am pleased that this snag has been picked up and will be sorted out by this amendment.

[Justin Madders]

I am not sure that the shadow Minister wants me to check everything again, because it might lead to further amendments and we may have this debate repeatedly. I would gently push back on the suggestion that this is a “howling error”, as he described it. Of course, the Employment Appeal Tribunal already has the jurisdiction of the CAC to hear appeals. It is probably more a case of making sure it is clear that that applies to this particular provision rather than its being an oversight in the first place.

Amendment 82 agreed to.

Question proposed, That the clause, as amended, stand part of the Bill.

[Justin Madders]

Clause 46 formally provides trade unions with the right of access to workplaces where an access agreement is reached between a trade union and an employer following negotiation. This will make it easier for union representatives to recruit and organise and potentially secure a collective bargaining agreement with an employer. It will not impact existing voluntary access agreements between a union and an employer. For unrecognised unions, access to a workplace is an opportunity to recruit and organise with the aim of gaining formal recognition.

In this framework a union can provide an employer with a request for access, to which the employer can either agree or object within a set timeframe. If both parties agree on the access terms, the Central Arbitration Committee is notified to record the agreement and proceed. In the instance that a union and employer cannot agree on access terms, the CAC can impose an agreement. The decision will be guided by prescribed terms which will be set out in secondary legislation. The CAC will have some discretion when making a determination on whether access should occur, and the decision will be subject to principles set out in the Bill that consider both union and employer interests.

The clause also establishes an enforcement mechanism whereby complaints of breaches of an access agreement can be raised with the CAC. The CAC can then vary the agreement, make a declaration that the complaint is well-founded or not, and issue an order requiring specified steps to be taken to ensure that the agreement is complied with. We recently consulted on some specifics of the enforcement mechanism, which various unions and employers contributed to and which we are now carefully considering. Regulations relating to a union’s right of access, such as notice periods for employers and the terms of reasonable access, will be prescribed in secondary legislation after consultation.

Amendments 72, 73 and 75 to 79 require trade unions applying for access to be certified as independent instead of being only listed as a trade union. This will help independent unions initiate and agree access agreements with an employer. Non-independent bodies’ existing ability to negotiate voluntary access agreements will remain unaffected. Amendment 81 will amend this clause to allow for the Secretary of State to set specific matters that the CAC must consider and have regard to. Amendment 74 will ensure that private dwellings are exempt, as we have discussed. Through the provision of a formal right of access, the Government are delivering on our commitment to modernise outdated and ad hoc access arrangements and align them with the 21st century. I commend clause 46 to the Committee.

[Greg Smith]

We have covered the bulk of the commentary that the Opposition want to make in the debate that we have had on the amendments. All I will say on clause 46 is that there is still so much left for secondary legislation, and I do not think businesses can have any certainty as to what is truly coming down the line until there have been the consultations we have spoken about and the secondary legislation has been laid, debated and, let’s face it, probably passed given the parliamentary arithmetic we have at the moment. While clause 46 as amended is better than what was first presented to the House, there are still many open-ended questions that businesses and trade unions alike will want to know the answers to. I urge the Minister to ensure that his Department moves at pace to get those consultations out there, so that he and the Department can hear from real businesses, trade unions and workers when it comes to the provisions that they are proposing. Then the questions of uncertainty can be ironed out as quickly as possible and nobody is left in the position of not knowing where this is going.

[Justin Madders]

The shadow Minister is of course right—we do need to get this right and engage with businesses and trade unions about the detail. That is what we intend to do.

Question put and agreed to.

Clause 46, as amended, accordingly ordered to stand part of the Bill.

Clause 47

Conditions for trade union recognition

Question proposed, That the clause stand part of the Bill.

[Justin Madders]

The clause makes amendments to the statutory trade unions recognition process, which is administered by the Central Arbitration Committee. Hon. Members will possibly not all be aware of the current statutory recognition process, so I will just take a moment to detail that. Where an employer refuses to recognise a trade union voluntarily, that union can apply to the CAC to obtain statutory union recognition. On application, unions have to show the CAC that, first, they have 10% membership of the proposed bargaining unit and secondly, that they are likely to have a majority in the subsequent trade union ballot. Where the majority of workers in the bargaining unit are members of the unions, the CAC can decide to automatically recognise the union without holding a recognition ballot. However, the CAC must still hold a ballot if it receives credible evidence from a significant number of union members that they do not want the union to conduct collective bargaining on their behalf, or membership evidence is produced that leads the CAC to doubt whether a significant number of union members want recognition, or if the CAC believes that holding a ballot would help further industrial relations. For the union to win, it must then obtain a majority in a recognition ballot and also in that ballot, at least 40% of the workforce in the proposed bargaining unit must support union recognition.

We are committed to strengthening collective bargaining rights and trade union recognition. We believe that strong trade unions are essential for tackling insecurity, inequality, discrimination, enforcement and low pay. Our view is that the existing legal framework needs to be simplified so that workers have a more meaningful right to organise through their trade unions. To achieve that, the clause therefore removes the current requirement for a union to have at least 40% of the workforce in the proposed bargaining unit supporting union recognition. In future, unions will only need a simple majority in a recognition ballot to win.

The current requirement for a union to demonstrate, at the application stage, that it is likely that there will be a majority for the recognition process is a significant hurdle in modern workplaces, which are increasingly fragmented. That is why the clause deletes the requirement for a union to demonstrate on application to the CAC that they are likely to win a future recognition ballot. Now unions will only need to show that they have 10% membership of the proposed bargaining unit for their application form recognition to be accepted by the CAC. We are also considering whether the current 10% membership requirement upon application should be lowered in future. The clause therefore provides a power to enable the Secretary of State to make affirmative regulations, which we will of course consult on, to amend the 10% membership requirement in future within parameters of 2% to 10% as set out in subsection (10) of the clause.

[Greg Smith]

I am grateful to the Minister for his detailed explanation. I will focus my remarks predominantly around the proposed new range of 2% to 10%. I would think, to most reasonable people, 10% is already a relatively low number: 10% is, generally speaking and in most walks of life, not a difficult proportion for anybody to reach if they truly believe that right is on their side, and they have wider support, with wider mandates to get on and negotiate within those bargaining units, to deliver a better outcome. I would argue that any union that cannot be kept to 10% really is not clearing the first hurdle and is certainly not passing “Go” or collecting the metaphorical £200. I question why it is in any way, shape or form necessary to lower that.

--- Later in debate ---

[Alison Hume (Scarborough and Whitby) (Lab)]

It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Mr Mundell. I refer to my entry in the Register of Members’ Financial Interests and to my membership of Unison and the Writers’ Guild of Great Britain.

I am pleased that the Bill will take significant steps to simplify the union recognition process by removing unnecessary barriers that unions currently face. As my hon. Friend the Member for Birmingham Northfield mentioned, recent events at Amazon’s Coventry distribution site, where the unionisation effort was defeated by 28 votes, serve as a reminder of the challenges that workers encounter.

I particularly welcome the flexibility in the Bill to lower the membership threshold required to begin the recognition process from the current 10% to potentially as low as 2%. That will give workers the opportunity to organise effectively from the outset. Ensuring that unions need only a simple majority in favour of recognition will mean that the will of the workers is fairly and clearly reflected without being stifled by unnecessary procedural hurdles.

[Justin Madders]

We have had a good debate. The main focus of the shadow Minister’s questioning was the 2% issue. The first thing to say is that, as it stands, the 10% figure will remain. We are simply giving ourselves the power to reduce it to 2% following consultation, although as various Committee members have powerfully set out, including my hon. Friends the Members for Worsley and Eccles and for Birmingham Northfield, there is a strong case for it to be reduced from the current 10%. As my hon. Friend the Member for Birmingham Northfield pointed out, the previous Government set a precedent in this area with the reduction to 2% in the Employment Rights (Miscellaneous Amendments) Regulations 2019, which were introduced not long ago.

The shadow Minister must understand that these measures are about the very worst employers that are actively hostile to trade unions. Most employers recognise the value of a trade union and, as my hon. Friend the Member for Worsley and Eccles pointed out, enter into voluntary arrangements, but there are examples, such as the GMB-Amazon dispute, of unwillingness to engage. I remember the example of an employer not far from where I live who sacked all the people who joined the trade union. It will not surprise the shadow Minister that no one wanted to join a trade union after that. That is a clear example of why, in the most extreme situations with hostile employers, it is difficult to increase trade union membership. Of course, we also now have workplaces that are much more fragmented, because there is more homeworking and hybrid working, and people are often out in the field.

--- Later in debate ---

[Michael Wheeler]

It could be dangerous for me to admit that sometimes I might have wished to instruct a member, but I can reassure everyone here that the instructions flow the other way when someone is a trade union official acting at the behest of members at all times.

I was one sentence from the end before the interventions. I have been thoroughly derailed by people in this room, so I will wrap up and say that I do not agree with the amendment. I disagree with a lot of what was raised in the debate and the false analogy around subscription models versus membership of a democratic organisation. I will obviously not support the amendment.

[Justin Madders]

We have had a good debate on the amendment. It is fair to say there is a deep divide in our positions. I will address the amendment and the clause stand part debate.

Amendment 126 would make two changes to clause 48. First, it seeks to retain the requirement on trade unions to provide their members with an annual notice of their right to opt out of contributions to the political fund. Secondly, it seeks to require trade union members to opt in to contributions to the political fund annually. As we have heard, that would place substantial and unnecessary bureaucratic requirements both on trade unions and on their members. As my hon. Friend the Member for Worsley and Eccles said, this is one of those rare occasions when the Conservative party seems to be in favour of more red tape, which is clearly something that we want to see reduced.

I will start with the change that would retain the requirement for trade unions to send an annual notice to members reminding them that they can opt out of contributing to a political fund. The amendment targets the wrong section. It would amend section 86 of the Trade Union and Labour Relations (Consolidation) Act 1992, which relates to ensuring that employers do not deduct contributions through check-off from the member where the union member has opted out of the political fund or where the opt-out notice has been given but is not yet in force.

However, I will respond in terms of the spirit of the amendment tabled by the shadow Minister. The Government have been clear in our intention to repeal the Trade Union Act 2016, which was a clear manifesto commitment. We have a mandate to deliver on that. The amendment seeks to frustrate that clear intention by retaining the substantive effect of section 84A of the Trade Union and Labour Relations (Consolidation) Act 1992, as amended by the Trade Union Act 2016.

We should be clear that members are, of course, free to opt out of contributing to a political fund whenever they wish. Clause 48, which I will come to, sets out how that is possible. Currently, alongside the requirement to ballot members on the maintenance of a political fund every 10 years, trade unions must also remind their members of their right to opt out of a political fund. The Government are proposing to remove the ballot requirements. We have consulted on whether to retain a requirement for trade union members to be reminded on a 10-year basis that they can opt out of the political fund.

[Greg Smith]

I understand the point the Minister is making. On the one hand, he wants everyone to be reminded annually of their right to join a trade union, but he wants them to be reminded of their ability to opt out of the political fund only every 10 years. Surely he can see the inconsistency in that approach. Even though I am sure that he wants the political funds to be as bulging as possible, certainly for those unions that donate to the Labour party, surely he must see that there is an inconsistency between reminding people of their right to join a trade union annually but reminding them of their right to withdraw their support for the political fund on a less frequent basis.

[Justin Madders]

I thank the shadow Minister for his question. I have not actually said that we will require members to be informed of their right to join a trade union annually—we are simply consulting about the frequency of a reminder. That is the point the hon. Member for Bridgwater raised earlier. We are consulting on that point, and we are consulting on the 10-year reminder about being able to opt out of the political fund. What is sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander. If the shadow Minister thinks we should not inform people annually of their right to join a trade union, presumably he would also agree that they should not be reminded annually of their right to opt out. The arguments work both ways.

[Greg Smith]

In the spirit of following that debate through to its natural conclusion, no matter where we stand on the politics, surely the happy medium would be to marry up whatever the consultation ends up concluding for the reminder of the right to join a trade union in the first place with the reminder of the right to opt out of the political fund. Surely that would be the fair and equitable way through this—to simply say that the answer is to marry up the reminder of the right to join a trade union with the reminder to opt out of the political fund, with whatever frequency the consultation says.

[Justin Madders]

Those are of course two entirely separate requirements. At the moment, trade union members can choose to opt out of contributing to the political fund at any time. Clause 48 sets out clearly how they can do that by post, email or other electronic means. As my hon. Friend the Member for Worsley and Eccles so eloquently said, most trade union members will be aware of their rights in this area should they wish to exercise them. The comparisons between trade union membership and political funds and Netflix subscriptions and insurance contracts are bogus, because they are not the same thing at all. Membership of a trade union and a political fund is membership of a democratically organised society and independent trade union. The members have control of the organisation because it is democratically organised, so it is not the same thing at all.

--- Later in debate ---

[Greg Smith]

I do not think I need to correct the record, in that I made a statement of the obvious, which is that Conservatives wish to beat Labour in elections, but equally I went on to say that, with the right consent, it is perfectly fair, democratic and legitimate for the Labour party to receive funding from those trade unions that wish it to do so. I went even further by saying that that is perfectly fine; so long as it is done transparently and stated on the record—as Labour Members have assiduously done every time they have stood up to speak during this Bill Committee and, indeed, in other debates—there is nothing wrong with it.

This is about the process for members, whether they are contributing to political funds where the unions do donate to Labour, or to any other cause, be it party political or a campaign on this side or the other— the hon. Member for Birmingham Northfield himself recognised and spoke earlier about the very good campaign in relation to attacks on emergency workers. That is a perfectly good, legitimate and worthwhile use of that money, to which I would anticipate—although presumption is a dangerous thing—that most, if not all, contributors to the political fund that supported the campaign would happily continue to contribute. However, there are circumstances and times when trade union members contributing to political funds may not see that money being spent as they would like it to be. It is the ease of being able to opt out, not just having the right to opt out, that the amendment gets to the heart of.

Before the Committee divides on amendment 126, I urge Committee members to reflect on whether they really want to say to the outside world that, while consumers have the right to be reminded on a monthly or annual basis of how to opt out of their mobile phone contract, magazine subscription or whatever else, such a reminder of how to opt out of political funds—not the right to opt out but how—should be denied to trade union members.

[Justin Madders]

The shadow Minister talks about this being a rule that applies to every other section of society. Is he saying that the principle should apply to every membership organisation, be it the Chartered Institute of Personnel and Development, the Royal Society for the Protection of Birds, the Royal National Lifeboat Institution or any of the many other membership organisations that exist in the country? There will be millions of members of those organisations, so should the principle apply equally to them all? Is he aware that it applies at the moment?

[Greg Smith]

For the most part, I would say that it does exist. I am thinking of membership organisations outside the world of politics that I have subscriptions to: at the annual point of renewal—most of the ones I have are annual—I do get either an email or a letter saying, “Your direct debit for the next year is going to be £2 higher a month. It will automatically renew unless you do x, y and z.” The x, y and z to opt out, stop or unsubscribe is always very clear.

[Justin Madders]

rose—

[Greg Smith]

The Minister is going to tempt me to say which memberships, isn’t he?

[Justin Madders]

I am not sure that we need to know about the shadow Minister’s memberships. I have two points: there is not legislation requiring this, and when trade unions raise subscriptions they will send a similarly worded letter out. The analogy the shadow Minister has drawn already takes place.

[Greg Smith]

I am grateful for that, but there is not an increase every year.

[Justin Madders]

There is.

--- Later in debate ---

Question proposed, That the clause stand part of the Bill.

[Justin Madders]

The clause is relatively simple in that it seeks to repeal section 15 of the Trade Union Act 2016 by amending the Trade Union and Labour Relations (Consolidation) Act 1992 to remove section 116B. Section 15 of the 2016 Act required trade unions to pay public sector employers where they administered payroll deductions for trade union subscriptions—known as check-off. Section 15 further mandated that the service be made available only where workers had the option to pay their union subscriptions by other means.

The check-off regulations were apparently introduced as a cost-saving measure, with estimated annual savings of £1.6 million, totalling £12 million over the next 10 years. However, as last year’s check-off impact assessment acknowledged, the Trade Union (Deduction of Union Subscriptions from Wages in the Public Sector) Regulations 2024 brought a cumulative cost of £17 million to public sector employers and trade unions over that period, which is far higher than the estimated cost savings.

In the spirit of wanting to save businesses and the public sector from burdens, we think that this is an entirely sensible move. I urge members of the Committee to support the clause.

[Greg Smith]

Of course we wish to save taxpayers money, particularly when it comes to the public sector, but likewise we do not see why businesses should bear the cost of trade union subscription collections. That should be a cost entirely for the trade unions to bear, just as we would never tolerate—on the Opposition Benches for sure—the public purse or the taxpayer’s pound having to subsidise any other body that should be funding itself.

I understand where the Minister is coming from. As he looks across other parts of the Bill, I urge him to have a similar approach to saving businesses and taxpayers money across the piece.

Question put and agreed to.

Clause 49 accordingly ordered to stand part of the Bill.

Ordered, That further consideration be now adjourned. —(Anna McMorrin.)

Employment Rights Bill (Sixteenth sitting)

Justin Madders Excerpts

Committee stage
Tuesday 7th January 2025 Public Bill Committees

[The Chair]

With this it will be convenient to discuss the following:

Amendment 114, in clause 51, page 64, line 9, after “employer”, insert—

“(aa) in relation to a public sector employer, the performance condition is met.”

This amendment paves the way for Amendment 115.

Amendment 115, in clause 51, page 64, line 10, at end insert—

“(3A) The performance condition is met if the Secretary of State is satisfied that the public sector employer is meeting any performance standards set out in a relevant enactment.”

This amendment, together with Amendment 114, prevents facility time for equality representatives being provided unless the relevant public sector organisation is meeting its statutory targets for performance.

Clauses 51 and 52 stand part.

New clause 18—Facility time: cost assessment—

“(1) The Secretary of State must commission an assessment of the cost and prospective cost of—

(a) time off and associated payments under sections 168 to 170 of the Trade Union and Labour Relations (Consolidation) Act 1992, and

(b) implementing section 168B of that Act,

in relation to each sector of the economy.

(2) For the purposes of subsection (1), a sector of the economy means—

(a) an area of the economy in which businesses share the same or related business activity, product, or service, or

(b) in relation to the public sector, a sector which provides similar or related services.

(3) The Secretary must lay a report of the assessment commissioned under subsection (1) before each House of Parliament.”

This new clause requires the Secretary of State to undertake a sectoral cost assessment of trade union facility time, and see also Amendment 113.

Amendment 113, in clause 118, page 105, line 20, at end insert—

“(3A) But the provisions of section 51(2) to (12) may not be brought into force before the report of the cost assessment referred to in section [Facility time: cost assessment] has been laid before each House of Parliament.”

This amendment provides that the amendments made in Clause 51 cannot come into force until after the completion of the review referred to in NC18.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Business and Trade (Justin Madders)]

It is a pleasure to see you in the Chair, Sir Christopher. I wish you a happy new year. As always, I will start by referring to my entry in the Register of Members’ Financial Interests.

I shall attempt to navigate this mega-grouping of clauses, amendments and new clauses. Clause 50 will amend section 168 of the Trade Union and Labour Relations (Consolidation) Act 1992 to provide that an employer that permits an employee to take time off for carrying out trade union duties, including as a learning representative, must, where requested by the employee, provide the employee with accommodation and other facilities for carrying out their duties or undergoing training related to their trade union duties, as is reasonable in all the circumstances. “Facilities” could include office and meeting space and access to the internet or intranet. In providing the employee with facilities, the employer should have regard to a relevant code of practice issued by ACAS.

The clause will also strengthen the existing right to reasonable paid facility time for union representatives, including union learning representatives, by establishing a presumption that the employee’s view on what is considered reasonable time off is reasonable in all the circumstances, having regard to any relevant provisions of a code of practice issued by ACAS. The clause will require that the employer show that it was not a reasonable amount of time off at an employment tribunal, in the event of legal proceedings.

Despite the fact that most union representatives receive paid time off, it is often insufficient to allow them to carry out all their trade union duties, and many union representatives use significant amounts of their own time to do so. This Government want to ensure that union workplace representatives can take sufficient paid facility time and have sufficient access to facilities to enable them to fulfil their union representative duties. That will lead to improved worker representation and industrial relations by giving trade unions and workplace representatives the freedom to organise, represent and negotiate on behalf of their workers and to increase co-operation between employers and unionised workers, leading to beneficial outcomes for the economy.

The Government will not support the shadow Minister’s amendments 114 and 115, which would place an unnecessary restriction on trade union equality representatives’ ability to take time off during working hours to carry out their role as equality representatives. Equality representatives have a key role to play in raising awareness and promoting equal rights for all members, as well as developing collective policies and practices that will enable organisations to realise all the benefits of being an equal opportunities employer. Placing a performance condition on the right to paid time off for equality representatives is at odds with existing rights and protections for other trade union representatives, such as union learning representatives.

In addition, the Bill is clear that the amount of time off that an employee is permitted to take, the purposes and occasions for which it is taken and any conditions subject to which it may be so taken are those that are reasonable in all the circumstances, having regard to any relevant provision of a code of practice issued by ACAS or the Secretary of State. The existing code of practice on time off for trade union representatives will be updated in due course to cover equality representatives. The Government would therefore strongly argue that the additional condition is not required for equality representatives.

Clause 51 will insert new section 168B into the Trade Union and Labour Relations (Consolidation) Act 1992. The proposed new section requires that an employer must permit an employee who is a member of an independent trade union recognised by the employer and an equality representative of the trade union to take paid time off during the employee’s working hours for the following purposes: carrying out activities for the purpose of promoting the value of equality in the workplace; arranging learning or training on matters relating to equality in the workplace; providing information, advice or support to qualifying members of the trade union in relation to matters relating to equality in the workplace; consulting with the employer on matters relating to equality in the workplace; obtaining and analysing information on the state of equality in the workplace; and preparing for any of the things mentioned previously.

The above applies only if the trade union has given the employer notice in writing that the employee is an equality representative of the union and has undergone sufficient training to enable them to carry out the activities listed above, or if the trade union has in the past six months given the employer notice in writing that the employee will be undergoing such training—this can be done only once in relation to any one employee—or within six months of the trade union giving the employer notice in writing that the employee will be undergoing such training, the employee has done so and the trade union has given the employer notice of that. “Sufficient training” is that which is sufficient for fulfilling the purposes of an equality representative, having regard to any relevant code of practice issued by ACAS or the Secretary of State.

Clause 51 will also require an employer to permit an employee to take paid time off during working hours to undergo training relevant to their role as an equality representative and, where requested, provide the employee with accommodation and other facilities to enable them to fulfil their role, having regard to a relevant code of practice issued by ACAS. Should an employer fail to permit the employee to take time off or provide the employee with facilities as required, the employee may present a complaint to an employment tribunal, at which it will be for the employer to show that the amount of time off that the employee proposed was not reasonable.

Trade unions have long fought for equality. Equality reps have a key role to play in raising awareness and promoting equal rights for all members, as well as developing collective policies and practices that will enable organisations to realise all the benefits of being an equal opportunities employer. Clause 51 therefore recognises in statute the role of trade union equality representative, which is defined in proposed new section 168B(12) as a person appointed or elected in accordance with the trade union rules and defined by reference to, and in a manner consistent with, the Equality Act 2010.

I turn to the shadow Minister’s amendments 113 and new clause 18. I should start by stating that sections 168 to 170 of the Trade Union and Labour Relations (Consolidation) Act 1992 are long-standing provisions that require employers to provide facility time for union representatives and union learning representatives of a recognised trade union.

Our legislation also requires employers to make payments to union representatives for time off for carrying out their union duties. Despite the fact that most union representatives receive paid time off, it is often insufficient to allow them to carry out all of their trade union duties, and many union representatives use significant amounts of their own time to do so. We want to ensure that union workplace representatives can take sufficient paid facility time and have sufficient access to facilities to enable them to fulfil their union representative duties. That is why we are strengthening the rights of trade union representatives in the Bill. As part of that, we are also providing—in clause 51, which will insert new section 168B into the 1992 Act—new rights for time off for union equality representatives. Equality reps have a key role to play in raising awareness and promoting equal rights for all members, as well as developing collective policies and practices that will enable organisations to realise all the benefits of being an equal opportunities employer.

The shadow Minister’s new clause 18 would require Ministers to commission a cost assessment of facility time for trade union representatives and for union learning representatives and the prospective costs of time off for equality representatives across all sectors of the economy. It would also require Ministers to lay a report before both Houses of Parliament once the assessment has been made. Amendment 113 would further require that the provisions of clause 51 could not come into force until after completion of the assessment referred to in new clause 18.

New clause 18 is not necessary. We do not need such a time-consuming assessment across all sectors of the UK economy. Also, union representatives under our legislation are already entitled to reasonable paid facility time to enable them to carry out their duties. As I have said already, we know that many union representatives do not have sufficient time; the Bill is intended to rectify that. I also note that no such assessment of facility time, sector by sector, for the entire UK economy was ever carried out by the previous Government.

Clause 52 will repeal sections 13 and 14 of the Trade Union Act 2016 by removing sections 172A and 172B of the Trade Union and Labour Relations (Consolidation) Act 1992. Regulations made under section 172A, inserted by section 13, require relevant public sector employers to publish information relating to facility time for relevant union officials. Section 172B, inserted by section 14, provided a power—although I do not think that it was ever implemented—to impose a cap on public sector facility time. Repealing these sections will help to ensure that trade union representatives have sufficient time to represent workers, negotiate with employers and conduct training.

The removal of the reporting requirements represents a significant step in resetting the relationship between public sector employers and trade unions by recognising the importance of union representatives and the time needed for them to fulfil their duties effectively. The removal of the regulations will reduce the annual administrative burden on many public sector employers, freeing up more time to focus on delivery for the public.

This Government believe that it is for each employer to work in partnership with their own recognised trade unions to determine the facility time needed to ensure that their trade union representatives can properly represent their members and the workforces within which they operate. It is unnecessary to require annual reporting or to introduce an arbitrary cap on facility time. I therefore ask the hon. Member for Mid Buckinghamshire not to press amendments 113 to 115 and new clause 18. I commend clauses 50 to 52 to the Committee.

[Greg Smith (Mid Buckinghamshire) (Con)]

It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Sir Christopher. I, too, wish you a very happy new year.

I will start with amendments 114 and 115, which stand in my name and those of my hon. Friends on the Committee. The amendments would prevent facility time from being provided for equality representatives unless—this is the important bit—the relevant public sector organisation is meeting its statutory performance targets.

In workplaces in which a trade union is recognised, trade union workplace representatives have a right to paid time off for the purpose of carrying out their trade union duties or to take part in union training. That right currently applies to workplace representatives, health and safety representatives, union learning representatives, and information and consultation representatives. The Bill will extend that right to equality representatives, who will now be allowed paid time off to carry out

“activities for the purpose of promoting the value of equality in the workplace”;

to arrange

“learning or training on matters relating to equality in the workplace”;

to provide

“information, advice or support to qualifying members of the trade union in relation to matters relating to equality in the workplace”;

to consult

“the employer on matters relating to equality in the workplace”;

and to obtain and analyse

“information relating to equality in the workplace.”

I make no criticism or comment about the value of those activities, but what I would say is that they are straightforwardly set out in the law already, and employers already have a duty to consider them. Creating a duty to allow more facility time for this purpose seems to be at cross-purposes with what employers are already, rightly, under an obligation to consider.

The amendments are an attempt to ensure that the taxpayer gets something out of this latest concession from the Labour Government to the trade unions. We would like to make sure that equalities representatives working for public sector employers are entitled to facility time only if that employer is meeting any statutory targets that it has. We suggest that if the employer is not meeting those targets, that is more important to taxpayers than facility time.

New clause 18 and amendment 113 also stand in my name and those of my hon. Friends on the Committee. As the Minister says, new clause 18 would require the Secretary of State to undertake a sectoral cost assessment of trade union facility time. It would require the Secretary of State to undertake an assessment of the cost, and prospective cost, by sector of that facility time. Amendment 113 would provide that clause 51, which will introduce facility time for trade union equalities representatives, could not come into force until after the completion of the review referred to in new clause 18.

That is an eminently sensible step. I cannot see how anyone could object to a cost analysis and assessment being done before provisions come into effect. People need to know what they are dealing with and how much it will cost them, whether that is in the public sector or the private sector, a Government Department or a Government quango, a council, an NHS trust or a private business. It is not reasonable for these things to be asked for without a true assessment and understanding of the cost.

The Opposition are concerned about the increased impetus that the Bill places behind facility time and about extending it to equalities representatives. We would therefore like to make sure that the Government have done their homework and understood the cost to business of these changes before they implement them.

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[Sir Ashley Fox (Bridgwater) (Con)]

It is good to see you in the Chair, Sir Christopher.

I rise to speak in support of Opposition amendments 113 to 115 and new clause 18. These are modest proposals to ameliorate the additional costs and burdens that the Bill is will place on employers and the public sector. It seems extraordinary that the Government want to introduce this new facility time without any thought about what the cost will be. It strikes me that the measures the Government are bringing forward are simply a bung to their trade union friends to provide extra money to employ extra trade union officials to do work that genuinely does not need doing.

The law is clear and should be enforced. We do not need the state to impose further burdens by employing trade union officials to effectively double up as Government inspectors. I shall therefore support the amendments and vote against the Government’s new clauses. A pattern is being followed through this Bill, whereby Ministers rise and say that each individual proposal is reasonable and modest, yet each one is an additional burden on the taxpayer and/or employers. The net result is £5 billion in additional costs, which will make this country less competitive, efficient, and effective.

[Justin Madders]

I will respond briefly to some of the points that have been made. I was asked why we need to put equality representatives on statutory footing. I think the hon. Member for Torbay gave just one example of the ongoing issues of discrimination in many workplaces up and down the country but, of course, this Bill also seeks to expand family friendly rights. Anyone who takes cognisance of local authority matters—I know that my hon. Friend the Member for Birmingham Northfield does so more than most—will be aware that equal pay is still a huge issue in many local authorities. This is over 50 years since the Equal Pay Act 1970 was brought into force, so there is a strong case for allowing equality reps to bring their value to the workplace.

The amendment on performance targets is particularly unfair. In effect, the hon. Member for Mid Buckinghamshire is seeking to punish trade union members for the failings of their employer if they do not hit performance targets. None of those targets have been specified in the legislation. Perhaps it is a reflection of the fact that under his party’s Administration, most public services did not meet performance targets, and he was hoping that if they got back into power he would be able to use that to deny facility time to all trade union representatives.

[Sir Ashley Fox]

Does the Minister really expect us to believe that his Government has not costed these proposals? Does he believe that providing additional facility time to trade unions will improve public sector performance? What we have said is that in cases where Departments are not meeting their targets, the Department should use taxpayer money to meet those targets before granting additional facility time to trade union officials.

[Justin Madders]

I understand the hon. Gentleman’s point but I refer him to the impact assessment, which sets out the cost of these individual measures and their cumulative impact. For facility time, the amount is very small indeed. It has been green-rated by the Regulatory Policy Committee, and studies by the predecessor Department of the Department of Business and Trade showed that facilities time did lead to significant savings and reduced dismissals, reduced employment tribunals, reduced voluntary exits and enhanced productivity. We are talking about figures in the region of hundreds of millions of pounds here. I accept that it is an old study, but the principle remains the same. We heard repeatedly during evidence that strong engagement from trade unions is a good thing for employers, because it helps to engage the workforce and improve productivity. Therefore, I do not accept the premise of his argument.

Regarding the general thrust of what is coming from the Opposition about the use of facilities, the Trade Union Act 2016 was designed to make it more difficult for trade unions to perform their duties by increasing the amount of investigation and focus on their time, but the reported figures in terms of the percentage of the public sector pay bill were the same at the start of the reporting requirements as they were at the end, which was 0.07%—007; we are back to James Bond again. That shows that the requirements of the 2016 Act were simply burdens that added nothing. I therefore urge hon. Members to reject the Opposition amendments and to support the clauses.

Question put and agreed to.

Clause 50 accordingly ordered to stand part of the Bill.

Clauses 51 and 52 ordered to stand part of the Bill.

Clause 53

Blacklists: additional powers

Question proposed, That the clause stand part of the Bill.

[Justin Madders]

The clause will enable us to strengthen the protections against blacklisting. The Consulting Association scandal, in which thousands of union workers were blacklisted, underscored the need for strong anti-blacklisting laws. Blacklisting persists, yet the rules have not been updated for over a decade. That is why we are taking steps to modernise them.

The clause amends section 3 of the Employment Relations Act 1999. It will enable regulations to be made that extend prohibitions to lists that are not prepared for the purpose of discrimination, but are subsequently used for that purpose. Secondary legislation and guidance can then make clear that blacklisting prohibitions extend to lists created by predictive technology.

The clause also extends the scope of the powers, so that prohibitions no longer have to be limited to employers or employment agencies. First, the reference to employers or employment agencies is removed from section 3(1)(b) of the 1999 Act. Secondly, an amendment to section 3 adds a power for the Secretary of State to make regulations in relation to third party use of blacklists. It is important that the Government continue to make it clear that blacklisting is unacceptable, and updating the law supports that.

[Greg Smith]

This is one of the less contentious clauses in the Bill. The Minister is right to say that something that has not been updated for a decade probably should be looked at again, especially in the light of some of the technology that we see emerging. We will not oppose clause 53 standing part of the Bill.

[The Chair]

With this it will be convenient to discuss the following:

Clauses 55 and 56 stand part.

New clause 32—Workplace intimidation in regard to balloting—

“(1) The Employment Relations Act 2004 is amended as follows.

(2) After section 54 (12) (c) insert—

‘(d) measures are in place to prevent workplace intimidation.’”

This new clause requires the Secretary of State to consider whether there are sufficient measures to be in place to prevent workplace intimidation before they make any order to allow balloting to take place by a means other than by postal ballot.

New clause 33—Balloting in the workplace—

“(1) The Employment Relations Act 2004 is amended as follows.

(2) After section 54 (12) insert at end—

‘(12A) No order may be made under this section that would permit balloting to take place in the workplace.’”

This new clause would prohibit the Secretary of State from making an order to extend the means of voting in trade union ballots and elections that would allow the ballot to be held in the workplace.

New clause 43—Industrial action: impact assessments and family tests—

“In Part V of the Trade Union and Labour Relations (Consolidation) Act 1992, before section 234A (and the italic heading before it), insert—

‘Industrial Action: impact assessments and family tests

234ZA Impact assessments and family tests

(1) No ballot for industrial action may take place unless the trade union has taken the following steps—

(a) published a report containing an economic impact assessment of the industrial action;

(b) published a report containing a family test on the impact of the industrial action; and

(c) informed members of the trade union of the publication of reports required under paragraphs (a) and (b).

(2) For the purposes of this section, a “family test” is defined as an assessment on the impact of industrial action on family relationships.’”

This new clause would require trade unions to carry out an impact assessment and a family test, for the reports of these to have published, and trade union members informed of their publication, before a ballot for industrial action can take place.

[Justin Madders]

This is a large group of measures, comprising clauses 54, 55 and 56 and new clauses 32, 33 and 43. Clause 54 seeks to repeal sections 2 and 3 of the Trade Union Act 2016 by amending section 226 of the Trade Union and Labour Relations (Consolidation) Act 1992 to reverse the changes made by sections 2 and 3 of the 2016 Act. This will mean that trade unions will no longer have to meet a minimum turnout or support threshold for a ballot for industrial action to be successful. The trade union will only need a simple majority of those voting in the ballot to vote in favour of industrial action, as was the case prior to the 2016 Act being passed.

--- Later in debate ---

[Steve Darling]

I have some sympathy with the desire to understand the cost, but to me, the vast majority of the Government proposals before us today are about modernising the system appropriately. I am concerned that this afternoon we have seen the official Opposition one minute say that all in the garden is rosy and there is no need for equality, and the next flip over and catastrophise about the Government’s proposals. We need to get a firm hand on the tiller and see that the vast majority of these proposals simply entail modernisation. I welcome them.

[Justin Madders]

The shadow Minister asked why we cannot support new clauses 32 and 33. The simple answer is that there are already legislative protections in section 54(12) of the Employment Relations Act 2004, which sets out the conditions that must be adhered to in order to ensure that balloting is done in a secure and safe manner. He made some interesting points about people peering over others’ shoulders when votes are taking place. Clearly, his colleagues in the parliamentary Conservative party cannot be trusted to behave themselves when electronic voting takes place. That is something he will no doubt address with his colleagues in private.

If the shadow Minister is concerned about the impact of electronic balloting in all spheres—I am sure there are sometimes reasons in his own party to question the outcome of the electronic ballot—we can look at that, but there is already clear provision in law about how any trade union ballot is to be conducted. The working group will be considering that. If the Conservative party thought there were concerns about the use of electronic ballots for industrial disputes, they might not have commissioned the Knight review back in 2017 to consider the matter. That they did so suggests that they considered that it is right and appropriate that we modernise trade union practices to allow for electronic balloting for industrial action.

Moving on to the assessments the shadow Minister is requesting, the Government are pretty clear that, through new clause 43, the Opposition seek to add another administrative hurdle for a trade union that wants to take industrial action. There is no doubt that any such tests or assessments that were undertaken would lead to a multitude of satellite litigation, delay resolution of disputes, and divert both parties’ focus from resolving the disputes to arguing about impact assessments. I am not quite sure what the family test is. I think there is a family and friends test that some organisations use. It is a little vague. It is also unclear who would be the arbiter of whether these tests and assessments were being done sufficiently accurately. It is also fair to say that trade union members know, when they take industrial action, that there will be consequences. They are well aware. They do the job every day, they know the impact, and that is why they always take these matters very seriously.

The central point that the Bill will lead to more industrial action is counterintuitive, given that we are, in the main, reversing provisions of the 2016 Act. As we know, there has been more industrial action in recent years than there has been for decades. Perhaps there is not a cause and effect relationship between that and the 2016 Act, but I would suggest that the evidence points to it.

Question put and agreed to.

Clause 54 accordingly ordered to stand part of the Bill.

Clauses 55 and 56 ordered to stand part of the Bill.

Clause 57

Industrial action: provision of information to employer

[Greg Smith]

I beg to move amendment 167, in clause 57, page 69, line 16, leave out “seventh” and insert “twenty-first”.

This amendment would increase, from seven to 21 days, the notice period that trade unions are required to adhere to when notifying employers that they plan to take industrial action.

The amendment would increase from seven to 21 days the notice period that trade unions are required to adhere to when notifying employers that they plan to take industrial action. As we noted in the debate on the previous group, the Bill liberalises trade union law and repeals legislation passed by the last Conservative Government that brought some balance to the relationship between employers, the British public and trade unions. We think it is fair to require trade unions to provide 21 rather than seven days’ notice to employers that they plan to take industrial action, particularly given that the Bill repeals the minimum service levels legislation passed by the last Conservative Government to ensure sufficient levels of critical public services during strike action.

Given that the British public no longer have that protection, we think it is only fair that employers should have more time to prepare to mitigate some of the damage that occurs during strike action, particularly in vital public services such as ambulance and rail services. When strike action takes place, while of course employers have to prepare to mitigate its effect and put in place other steps to ensure that people still get their healthcare, education or critical services such as transport, the general public also need to make considerable preparations. Preparing properly and putting in place other ways of doing things often cannot be done at the last minute.

I would rather the minimum service levels legislation remained in place and, indeed, was strengthened, but when there is strike action on the railway, for example, it takes place at the drop of a hat—I consider seven days’ notice as at the drop of a hat. I think of the number of children in my constituency who get on at Wendover and Stoke Mandeville stations to travel to Dr Challoner’s grammar school in Amersham, and the number of my constituents who rely on the railway to get to hospital appointments, often in London. Some 7% of Buckinghamshire cancer referrals are to Mount Vernon, which is within London, and most of my constituents who go there for chemotherapy try to travel by train. To put in place a different route to that key chemotherapy appointment, or for parents to mitigate against or make different arrangements for their child to get to school, takes more than a handful of days.

I appeal to the Government to listen to us on what I argue is a moderate and reasonable amendment. Increasing the time limit would give people a fighting chance to put in place different ways of getting to their hospital appointment and getting their kids to school.

--- Later in debate ---

[Justin Madders]

As the shadow Minister eloquently set out, amendment 167 seeks to increase from seven to 21 days the notice that a trade union must give an employer of industrial action after it has secured a ballot mandate and before any such action is taken. As we know, the Trade Union Act 2016 brought in a requirement for unions to provide 14 days’ notice to employers. As we are committing to repealing the 2016 Act through this Bill, it stands to reason that if the clauses are agreed to, the seven-day notice period that was required prior to the 2016 Act will apply in its place.

We want to reset the relationship with both employers and unions to resolve disputes through meaningful negotiations. Far from supporting the economy, the effect of the legislation in recent years has been an increase in strikes. In 2023, close to 2.7 million working days were lost to strikes, up from 2.5 million in 2022. Both those figures were the highest since the 1980s.

However, we recognise the importance of striking a balance between allowing for effective strike action and ensuring that employers can reasonably prepare. That is especially important in public services such as the NHS, as the shadow Minister has mentioned, where managers need adequate time to plan for periods of industrial action, and that includes adequate time to agree patient safety mitigations with unions. That is why we have given employers, workers, and trade unions the opportunity, through a consultation, to comment on what notice of industrial action should be provided to employers. That consultation closed on 2 December 2024 and our response will be published in due course.

It seems to me that the shadow Minister’s proposal of a 21-day period is effectively a finger-in-the-air job rather than something considered. If he had tabled an amendment to keep it at 14 days, that would at least have been consistent with his party’s previous position. His statement that it is important to change this in the light of the repeal of the minimum service levels legislation is slightly erroneous given that, to our knowledge, no one has ever actually used the provisions of that Act. When we consider the consultation responses, we will look at whether there is a case for changing the length of the notice period from seven days. I therefore suggest that the amendment is unnecessary, and I ask the shadow Minister to withdraw it.

[Greg Smith]

I accept the Minister’s point about where precisely the number of days should sit. I slightly take issue with him when he says that the 21-day proposal was a finger-in-the-air job. Most people would describe that three-week window as a reasonable notice period to enable people in many walks of life to make plans, such as alternative provision for childcare.

If the Minister is offering up 14 days, we might well take him up on that, but I suspect he is teasing us rather than making a firm offer. Therefore, we stick with our belief that all our constituents deserve fair and reasonable time to plan and make provision in their daily lives to mitigate against strike action and industrial action, which have such a devastating impact on our economy and on people’s healthcare and their children’s education. We wish to see amendment 167 in the Bill, and we will press it to a Division.

Question put, That the amendment be made.

--- Later in debate ---

Question proposed, That the clause stand part of the Bill.

[Justin Madders]

I will not detain the Committee long, because we have kind of had the debate already. Clause 57 seeks to repeal section 8 of the Trade Union Act 2016 by amending section 234A of the Trade Union and Labour Relations (Consolidation) Act 1992. This will revert the notice period that trade unions need to provide, after securing a successful mandate, from 14 days to seven days.

As I have said, the Government are committed to modernising employment laws, striking a balance between enabling effective industrial action and ensuring that employers can reasonably prepare for such action. We have sought views on what notice period is suitable for modern working patterns and practices through a formal consultation, which closed last month, and we will be reporting on its outcome in due course. I commend the clause to the Committee.

[Greg Smith]

The bulk of the argument to be had on the clause was made in the debate on amendment 167. The Opposition still believe that the time period stated in this clause is insufficient to enable real people to plan. I therefore urge the Government to go back and consider this, and to see what more reasonable compromise they might be willing to offer our Great British public on Report.

Question put and agreed to.

Clause 57 accordingly ordered to stand part of the Bill.

Clause 58

Union supervision of picketing

Question proposed, That the clause stand part of the Bill.

[Justin Madders]

The clause seeks to reverse the effect of section 10 of the Trade Union Act 2016, thereby removing the requirement under section 220A of the Trade Union and Labour Relations (Consolidation) Act 1992 for trade unions to appoint a picket supervisor and to meet other bureaucratic and administrative burdens in relation to the supervisor, such as taking reasonable steps to provide their name to the police. As the period of disruption between 2022 and 2024 has shown, administrative requirements and bureaucratic hurdles do not prevent strikes; they only make it more difficult for trade unions to engage in good faith negotiations with employers. These changes will bring trade union law into the 21st century and fix the foundations for industrial relations that have not delivered for workers, employers or unions in decades, costing the economy £3.3 billion in lost productivity in the last two years alone.

The Government recognise that regulations governing picketing lines are important, however. That is why the Bill repeals only those measures introduced by the Trade Union Act 2016 in relation to the role of the picket supervisor. Other legislation and an amended code of practice on picketing will remain in place. We are returning the law on picketing to what it was prior to 2016, when I believe that it was working well and was clearly understood by all parties. I therefore commend clause 58 to the Committee.

[Greg Smith]

I will not take much of the Committee’s time on this. The Opposition do not understand why the Government wish to remove perfectly sensible measures from the statute book, other than that the trade unions have clearly demanded that the change be made. It does not seem proportionate or reasonable to us, and we think that those picket supervisors should instead remain on the statute book, as they are the status quo.

[Justin Madders]

Our view was that the legislation was not required when it was introduced in 2016. There was no evidence at the time that there were issues with picketing, and there was already a code of practice in place to deal with abuse and intimidation on picket lines. Therefore, we believe that reverting to the pre-2016 position, when in most people’s opinion everything was working as it should, is an entirely reasonable move.

Question put and agreed to.

Clause 58 accordingly ordered to stand part of the Bill.

Clause 59

Protection against detriment for taking industrial action

Amendment made: 83, in clause 59, page 71, line 4, leave out “three” and insert “six”.—(Justin Madders.)

This amendment would increase the time limit for bringing proceedings under the new section 236A of the Trade Union and Labour Relations (Consolidation) Act 1992 from three months to six months.

[Greg Smith]

I beg to move amendment 166, in clause 59, page 72, line 21, at end insert—

“236E Actions short of a strike: exemption

(1) The right of a worker not to be subjected to detriment under section 236A does not apply in cases where the worker is involved in one or more of the following activities—

(a) intimidation at picket lines;

(b) protests organised by trade unions in furtherance of a dispute—

(i) at the premises of a company;

(ii) at the private residences of senior managers; or

(iii) at the premises of other organisations that are connected with the dispute;

(c) harassment or bullying of non-striking workers, or those who are covering for striking workers;

(d) victimisation or harassment of senior managers; or

(e) action aimed at damaging property or disrupting business contingency planning.

(2) The Secretary of State must ensure that the circumstances under subsection (1), in which the right of a worker not to be subjected to detriment do not apply, are set out in a code of practice.”

This amendment would disapply the right not to suffer detriment as a result of industrial action in certain circumstances.

Amendment 166, which was tabled in my name and those of my hon. Friends the Members for West Suffolk, for Bridgwater and for Mid Leicestershire, would disapply the right not to suffer detriment as a result of industrial action in certain circumstances. This amendment is designed to target what has become known as leverage, which is action taken by a trade union other than traditional industrial action to put pressure on an employer to settle a dispute or meet various demands. When describing leverage in the context of the Grangemouth dispute, Unite said:

“Leverage targets all areas of weakness of an employer, group of employers or sector—both direct and indirect. Leverage is an extension of the understanding that ‘weight of argument’ does not change the position of an employer. Leverage analyses what will change the position of the employer. Leverage is the translation of an organising mind-set into the planning and implementation of a campaign strategy, underpinned by the escalation of pressure to create uncertainty.”

Those are not my words, but the words of a spokesperson for Unite the union. Unite was also of the view that in a leverage campaign

“the employer is routinely treated as a target to be defeated not a friend to be convinced.”

I am not sure that is the good faith relationship between trade union and employer that Labour Members have tried to paint as the normal back and forth between the two. I would certainly condemn as unacceptable any relationship between a trade union and an employer in which

“the employer is routinely treated as a target to be defeated not a friend to be convinced”.

That is not good faith.

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[Greg Smith]

I welcome the hon. Gentleman’s constructive approach. If he accepts the principle of what we are saying, we will work with the Government to polish it, and to ensure the amendment gives the maximum protection and protects junior managers as well as senior managers, and land adjacent to a premise that may not be owned or leased by the company. I will happily work with him and the Minister in a constructive tone to ensure the protections against leverage are as strong as possible. I will happily withdraw the amendment if the Minister commits the Government to working with us and coming up with a stronger amendment on Report that will stamp out the practices I have outlined. I dare say that we will see in a few moments whether he does so.

[Justin Madders]

I think it would be helpful if I set out why we are seeking to address the issue of detriment within the Bill. The reason is that new section 236A of the Trade Union and Labour Relations (Consolidation) Act 1992 is required because of the Supreme Court’s ruling in April 2024 that section 146 of the 1992 Act is incompatible with article 11 of the European convention on human rights, because it fails to provide any protection against detriments intended to deter or penalise trade union members from taking part in lawful strike action organised by their union. Hopefully, Members will accept as a starting proposition that we cannot continue to be in breach of our international obligations under the ECHR.

The intention is to rectify that situation by inserting new section 236A into part V of the 1992 Act. This will provide that a worker has the right not to be subject as an individual to detriment of a prescribed description by an act, or any deliberate failure to act, by their employer, if the act or failure to act takes place for the sole or main purpose of preventing or deterring the worker from taking protected industrial action, or penalising the worker for doing so. The prescribed detriments will be set out in secondary legislation following consultation, which will take place after the Bill gains Royal Assent.

The shadow Minister made some interesting points in his speech. However, his amendment seeks to prejudge the consultation on this issue. He made some valid points and I am sure that we will discuss this issue again in future, because there is a need for us to clarify what is considered a detriment, for the reasons that I have outlined.

Some of the examples that the shadow Minister gave are of things that are already catered for in the law. The protection from prescribed detriment only applies where the sole or main purpose of an act or a failure to act is to subject the worker to detriment, to prevent them from or penalise them for taking protective industrial action. For example, if a worker is subjected to detriment solely because, for example, they have damaged property, the protection would not apply. That is the existing position.

Of course the criminal law would still apply to pickets, just as it applies to everyone else, so no person involved in activities associated with pickets or organising pickets has any exemption from the provisions of the criminal law as it applies, for example, to prevent obstruction and preserve public order, or to regulate assemblies or demonstrations. There is already a relevant code of practice in place for that. Consequently, although I understand the points that the shadow Minister is making, I say to him that this issue will be dealt with in detail in a forthcoming consultation. I therefore ask him to withdraw his amendment.

[Laurence Turner]

The Minister raised the Fiona Mercer case, which was brought by Unison. As he said, the final judgment in that case found that new protections are needed to prevent the victimisation of workers who undertake lawful industrial action. Can he confirm that, as a result of the changes that we are making here today, the UK should now be compliant with international law?

[Justin Madders]

My hon. Friend is correct. That is indeed the purpose of the—well, we will get to the clause stand part debate shortly, when we will hopefully deal with that issue. However, this measure is about dealing with a particular ECHR judgment. Therefore, as I say, I ask the shadow Minister to withdraw his amendment.

[Greg Smith]

I understand the point that the Minister makes about prejudging any consultation, notwithstanding the points he makes about international obligations, but this is one of those areas where we have a particular identified problem in leverage that is not being challenged. I should be grateful if the Minister would provide further detail, not in Committee this afternoon but perhaps in writing, on where he thinks that protections exist around this.

From our perspective, it looks very much like this practice is happening and there are no protections against it. If there are protections against it, they are not being enforced. If they are not being enforced, there needs to be a mechanism to enable and allow that enforcement to take place. In good faith, I will withdraw the amendment for now and reserve the right to bring it back on Report, but notwithstanding some of the legitimate points made by the Minister, it is incumbent on us to properly stamp down on this practice and see it as very separate and distinct from the more traditional form of industrial action—strike action. The public understand that in a way that means that there would be even less sympathy when it comes to leverage. I beg to ask leave to withdraw the amendment.

Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.

Question proposed, That the clause, as amended, stand part of the Bill.

[The Chair]

With this it will be convenient to discuss clause 60 stand part.

[Justin Madders]

We touched on this in our debate on the shadow Minister’s amendment. Clause 60 addresses the Supreme Court ruling made in April 2024 that section 146 of the Trade Union and Labour Relations (Consolidation) Act 1992 is incompatible with article 11 of the European convention on human rights, in so far as it fails to provide any protection against detriments intended to deter trade union members from or penalise them for taking part in lawful strike action organised by their union. Clause 59 therefore amends the 1992 Act by inserting new section 236A into part V of the Act.

New section 236A provides that a worker has the right not to be subject as an individual to detriment of a prescribed description by an act, or any deliberate failure to act, by the worker’s employer if the act or failure takes place for the sole or main purpose of preventing or deterring the worker from taking protected industrial action or penalising the worker for doing so. The prescribed detriments will be set out in secondary legislation following consultation, which will take place after Royal Assent of the Bill. I will write to the shadow Minister with further detail on that in due course. However, the power in the Bill enables the Secretary of State to prohibit all detriments in secondary legislation should that be the preferred approach following consultation. Employers will continue to be able to deduct pay from workers in proportion to hours taken by strike action.

If a worker or former worker believes that they have been subject to a detriment by an employer in contravention of new section 236A, they may present a complaint to an employment tribunal within six months of the detriment occurring, or later if the tribunal is satisfied that it was not reasonably practicable for the complaint to be presented within that time period. On complaint to the employment tribunal, it is for the employer to show what was the sole or main purpose for which the employer acted or failed to act. If the tribunal finds that the complaint is well-founded, it must make a declaration to that effect and may make an award of compensation to be paid by the employer. The approach taken in the Bill addresses the ruling by the Supreme Court and, once the relevant secondary legislation has been made, will ensure that our legislation is compatible with the ECHR and ensure that protections against some forms of detriment for trade union representatives and members extend to industrial action.

Section 238A of the Trade Union and Labour Relations (Consolidation) Act currently provides that workers can claim unfair dismissal if they are dismissed for taking protected industrial action and the dismissal takes place within 12 weeks of the worker starting the industrial action. The strike action could be intermittent rather than continuous. The worker will also be automatically regarded as unfairly dismissed if they are dismissed after the 12-week period but had stopped taking action before the end of that period or the employer had not taken reasonable steps to resolve the dispute. Industrial action is protected if it is official action for which the union has immunity under section 219 of the 1992 Act.

Clause 60 amends section 238A of the 1992 Act so that protection against dismissal will apply whatever the length of the strike action. Should the employer wish to dismiss an employee as a result of a long-running protected industrial action, the dismissal would have to be for reasons other than participating in industrial action. The clause also makes consequential amendments to sections 229 and 238B of the 1992 Act and sections 26 to 28 of and schedule 1 to the Employment Relations Act 2004. I commend the clauses to the Committee.

--- Later in debate ---

[Alison Hume (Scarborough and Whitby) (Lab)]

It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship once again, Sir Christopher. I know that the shadow Minister likes us to draw attention to our union membership, so I again draw attention to my membership of Unison.

I welcome clause 59 because it addresses the critical issue of protecting workers taking part in industrial action, ensuring that they are safeguarded not just against dismissal but against other forms of detriment. As my hon. Friend the Member for Birmingham Northfield has previously mentioned, the case of Fiona Mercer, a care worker suspended after participating in legal industrial action, highlights why the reforms are needed. Like so many care workers, Fiona dedicated her career to supporting some of the most vulnerable in our society—in Fiona’s case, adults with learning difficulties. Yet she faced suspension for standing up for fair pay and better conditions. Her case is a pertinent reminder of the vulnerabilities faced by workers in critical sectors such as social care when their legal rights are not adequately protected.

Therefore, I welcome the clause’s introduction of protections against detriment, ensuring that employers cannot punish workers like Fiona for exercising their right to strike. This provision is essential to safeguard the ability of care workers and others to advocate for fair treatment without fear of suspension, demotion or other retaliatory measures. The removal of the arbitrary 12-week protected period for unfair dismissal means that workers like Fiona can continue to fight for justice without compromising on protections.

[Justin Madders]

I will start by recognising the contribution of my hon. Friend the Member for Scarborough and Whitby; the reason we are debating this clause is the case of Fiona Mercer and the quest for justice that my hon. Friend highlights. I will try to put the shadow Minister’s mind at ease about lawyers’ charters. As a former employment lawyer, I stand in the peculiar position of not wanting to see matters go to tribunal if we can avoid it. If we can resolve things before they get to that stage, it is always better. His fears are misplaced about the likelihood of creative lawyers going back many months or even years to link a particular dismissal to a period of industrial action.

There are many other potential claims that people can bring that relate to an act or something they may have done; whistleblowing is a very good example of that. Clearly, the further it is from the protected act and the dismissal, the harder it is to show that there is a connection, particularly, as will probably be the case for most dismissals that take place many months or years after the initial action, if there is an intervening event that causes the dismissal to take place. We do not want to get into the details of what those may be, but there are many intervening reasons why a dismissal might take place that have nothing to do with industrial action, but these are matters of law and fact for a tribunal to determine. We need to move away from a situation where we could have a particularly unscrupulous employer who wished to take advantage of the current law and seek to dismiss those who took part in industrial action 12 weeks and one day after that action had finished. That is not a state of affairs we want to defend.

Question put and agreed to.

Clause 59, as amended, accordingly ordered to stand part of the Bill.

Clause 60 ordered to stand part of the Bill.

Clause 61

Repeal of provision about minimum service levels

Question proposed, That the clause stand part of the Bill.

[The Chair]

With this it will be convenient to discuss the following:

New clause 27—Section 61: impact assessment—

“(1) The Secretary of State must carry out an assessment of the likely impact of section 61 of this Act on the ability of the services listed in section 234B(4) of the Trade Union and Labour Relations Consolidation Act 1992 to provide minimum service levels during strike action.

(2) The Secretary of State must lay a report setting out the findings of the assessment before each House of Parliament.”

This New Clause requires the Secretary of State to assess the impact of the provisions of Clause 61.

Amendment 133, in clause 118, page 105, line 20, at end insert—

“(3A) But no regulations under subsection (3) may be made to bring into force section 61 of this Act until the findings set out in the report under section [section 61: impact assessment] have been approved by a resolution of the House of Commons on a motion moved by a Minister of the Crown.”

This amendment is linked to NC27.

[Justin Madders]

The clause seeks to repeal the Strikes (Minimum Service Levels) Act 2023, which provides powers for the Government to make regulations to set minimum service levels during strike action in some essential services. The previous Government introduced regulations to implement minimum service levels in rail, border security, fire and rescue, and ambulance services. No work notice, however, has ever been issued by an employer to require individuals to work to meet the minimum service level during strike action. This demonstrates the futility and misguided approach of the Act and I urge Members to support its repeal. Minimum service levels unduly restrict the right to strike and undermine good industrial relations. As a result, our plan—it is a clear manifesto commitment—pledged to repeal the Act to give trade unions the freedom to organise, represent and negotiate on behalf of their workers.

The clause amends the Trade Union and Labour Relations (Consolidation) Act 1992. Subsection (1) repeals provisions of the 1992 Act as inserted by section 1 of the Strikes Act, with sections 234B to 234G falling away. A number of further amendments are made by the clause to the 1992 Act to reverse other changes made by the Strikes Act. As a result, all associated powers, regulations, provisions and defined terms related to minimum service levels will also fall away. We want to reset the relationship with both employers and trade unions to resolve disputes through meaningful negotiations, and repealing the Strikes Act will help us to achieve that.

I will now turn to new clause 27 and amendment 133, which were tabled by the hon. Member for Mid Buckingham- shire. The Government will not support his proposals, which unnecessarily ask for an assessment of the ability of essential public services to provide minimum service levels during industrial action, and to lay a report containing the findings before the House. The Government have already produced a comprehensive set of impact assessments, including an assessment covering the repeal of the Strikes (Minimum Service Levels) Act 2023. This was published alongside the Bill at Second Reading and is based on the best available evidence about the potential impact on business, workers and the wider economy. The assessment is hamstrung by the fact that the Act has never been implemented, so we are in some difficulty in seeing whether there was an impact from it.

The analysis we undertook, however, included labour market and broader macroeconomic analysis, including sectoral analysis on industries providing essential services, potential influence on collective bargaining and dispute resolution processes, while also addressing the balance between employer needs and union representation. We want to reset the relationship with both employers and trade unions to resolve disputes through meaningful negotiations, and believe that the Act was a hindrance to doing so. I therefore ask the shadow Minister not to move his new clause or amendment.

[Greg Smith]

I will focus my remarks predominantly on new clause 27 and amendment 133, which stand in my name and those of my hon. Friends. New clause 27 would require the Secretary of State to assess the impact of clause 61, which, as the Minister outlined, repeals legislation passed by the last Conservative Government that implemented minimum service levels in vital public services during periods of strike action. Amendment 133 would specify that regulations could not be laid to repeal minimum service levels legislation until the reports required by new clause 27 had been approved by a resolution of the House of Commons on a motion moved by a Minister of the Crown.

We think that is fundamentally right because, with no justification or explanation, the Government will repeal legislation designed to ensure that, during a strike, levels of service are maintained to ensure public safety. We consulted on minimum levels of service for the ambulance service, fire and rescue services and passenger rail services during the last Parliament. It is an important principle that members of the public, who pay through their taxes for lifesaving public services such as ambulance and fire services, should be able to rely on those services at all times, including when members of those services choose to take strike action. Equally, members of the public depend on rail services and in many cases will have already paid for them through season tickets. They have a right to an acceptable level of service, even when members of unions decide to take strike action.

Therefore, before the Government can commence the repeal of the minimum service levels legislation, we think it is only right that the Secretary of State should demonstrate and reassure the House that, in the sectors that the Conservatives specified as suitable for requiring minimum service levels during strike action—to recap, because I think it is important that we get this back on the record, those are health services, fire and rescue services, education services, transport services, services involved in the decommissioning of nuclear installations and management of radioactive waste and spent fuel, and border security—minimum levels of acceptable service can be provided to the public. I make that point not on a whim, but as a matter of public safety and public convenience, and I would be grateful for reassurance from the Minister on it.

If I may humanise it for a moment, this is not about simply saying that people should not be allowed to strike, or taking away rights or anything, although I am sure it will be painted as that; it is about expanding an established custom and precedent in this country about certain sectors, such as the police, being unable to strike. My father was a police officer for 31 years before he retired. We have always accepted as a country that the police should not be able to strike, because they are there for the fundamental purpose of public safety. We know that when we need them, they will be there and available. The same core public service, which we all pay for through our taxes, is provided by the other professions I outlined, not least fire and rescue services, border security and the niche but important services involved in the decommissioning of nuclear facilities, and there absolutely must be minimum service levels there too. Any one of us could need an ambulance at any point at no notice. Whether or not that minimum service level is in place is quite literally the difference between life and death. This is a serious issue.

The Labour party has always been opposed to minimum service levels. It opposed the legislation in the previous Parliament, and through this clause it is taking the quickest action possible to repeal it. I urge Labour Members to consider the practical, life-and-death consequences of not ensuring minimum service levels for fire, ambulance and border security services. If they have issues with some of the detail of the minimum service levels legislation, they should by all means strengthen it, but it would be simply negligent to allow the minimum service levels to drop and to leave any of our constituents—even just one—in a position of potentially life-and-death danger by repealing the legislation.

[Justin Madders]

I understand the points that the shadow Minister has made, but they would carry rather more weight if we had seen the minimum service levels Act operate in practice. The reality is that not a single day of industrial action has been prevented as a result of that legislation. The Government’s own impact assessment at the time indicated that it would have a detrimental impact on industrial relations, and the increase in strike days in the past couple of years has proved that to be the case.

It is also true that all the public sector bodies the shadow Minister referred to that are covered by the Act had voluntary arrangements in place to ensure that there was no endangerment to life. Trade unions and their members have and always will work with employers during periods of industrial action to ensure that life is not endangered. That is absolutely right. Indeed, there is potential criminal liability for those who do not. The evidence given by all at the time—including employers, who saw that the legislation was designed to drive a wedge between employers and trade unions—was that the existing voluntary arrangements worked and ensured that vital services were able to continue during periods of industrial action.

The minimum service levels Act drove a coach and horses through decades of agreement and understanding about how sensitive issues were dealt with during periods of industrial action. The proof is in the pudding: the fact that the Act was never used by any of the organisations that were empowered to use it shows that it was simply a bad piece of legislation, done purely for cosmetic political purposes, and had no meaningful impact. Therefore, its repeal will have no impact on the issues the shadow Minister has raised. I commend the clause to the Committee.

Question put and agreed to.

Clause 61 accordingly ordered to stand part of the Bill.

Clause 62

Annual returns: removal of provision about industrial action

Question proposed, That the clause stand part of the Bill.

[The Chair]

With this it will be convenient to discuss the following:

Clauses 63 to 69 stand part.

New clause 44—Certification Officer: growth duty—

“When discharging its general functions, the Certification Officer must, so far as reasonably possible, act in such a way as to advance the following objectives—

(a) the international competitiveness of the economy of the United Kingdom; and

(b) its growth in the medium to long term.”

This new clause would require the Certification Officer to advance the objectives of the international competitiveness of the economy and its growth in the medium to long term.

[Justin Madders]

Clause 62 seeks to reverse the effect of section 7 of the Trade Union Act 2016. It will remove the additional reporting requirements imposed on trade unions for their annual returns to the Certification Officer regarding details of industrial action taken during the reporting period. Specifically, trade unions will no longer be required to include information on any industrial action taken during the reporting period, the nature of the trade dispute relating to the industrial action, the type of industrial action taken or when it was taken, or confirmation that the relevant thresholds covering industrial action ballots have been met. Additionally, trade unions will no longer be required to include information regarding the results of industrial action ballots—for example, the number of votes cast and the number of those who voted yes or no.

Subsection (1) removes section 32ZA from the Trade Union and Labour Relations (Consolidation) Act 1992, which sets out the additional reporting requirements on trade unions. Trade unions will still be required to submit an annual return to the Certification Officer. However, the amount of information they will be required to include will be reduced. By removing these additional administrative burdens on trade unions, we are freeing up their time to engage in bargaining and negotiation with employers and allowing them to devote more time to representing their members’ interests.

Clause 63 seeks to repeal amendments made to the 1992 Act by section 12 of the Trade Union Act 2016 and thereby remove the requirement for trade unions to include political fund expenditure in their annual return to the Certification Officer. Currently, this information must be provided where a union spends more than £2,000 per annum from its political fund. Subsection (2) removes section 32ZB from the 1992 Act, which sets out the information to be included in a union’s annual return on political expenditure.

Other subsections of clause 63 make other amendments to the 1992 Act that are consequential on the removal of section 32ZB, including as to its enforcement and its application to employers’ associations. Section 12 of the 2016 Act itself is repealed by subsection (7). Trade unions will still have to report to the Certification Officer on their income and expenditure. That includes reporting on the income and expenditure of the political fund. Moreover, all political parties will still be subject to the reporting requirements in the Political Parties, Elections and Referendums Act 2000, which requires certain donations and loans to be recorded and reported to the Electoral Commission.

Clause 64 seeks to repeal the remainder of the effect of section 18 of the 2016 Act. It removes the power of the Certification Officer to publicise a trade union’s failure to include the required industrial action data in its annual return. Clauses 62 and 63 remove the requirement for trade unions to include details of industrial action and political expenditure in their annual returns, so there is clearly no need for the Certification Officer to retain powers to enforce such a requirement.

Enforcement relating to details of political expenditure is addressed in clause 63, and enforcement relating to details of industrial action in clause 64. Therefore, clause 64(2) removes section 32ZC of the 1992 Act, thereby removing the powers of the Certification Officer to enforce the additional annual return requirements relating to industrial action. The Certification Officer will retain the powers to enforce the remaining annual return requirements in relation to a union’s financial affairs and governance.

Clause 65 seeks to reverse the effect of section 17(1) and (2) of the 2016 Act, which inserted schedule A3 to the 1992 Act. It will repeal the enhanced investigatory powers of the Certification Officer, including the power to launch investigations by inspectors, the ability to compel trade unions to produce documents, and the related powers of enforcement. Schedule A3 to the 1992 Act sets out the details of the Certification Officer’s investigatory powers as introduced by the 2016 Act.

Clause 65(5) removes section 256C of the 1992 Act and subsection (6) removes schedule A3 from the 1992 Act. Subsections (2), (3) and (4) make more minor amendments that relate to the removal of schedule A3. Consequentially, subsection (7) removes section 17(1) and (2) of the 2016 Act, and schedule 1 to that Act, and makes further minor amendments to schedule 4 to that Act and to section 43 of the Transparency of Lobbying, Non-Party Campaigning and Trade Union Administration Act 2014.

The enhanced powers created by the 2016 Act were unnecessary. There was no evidence of regulatory failure, and unions have consistently complied with their statutory obligations in relation to their finances, governance and reporting requirements. Since their introduction, the Certification Officer has never used those additional powers. Removing onerous regulatory burdens from trade unions is part of the Government’s commitment to bringing in a new era of partnership that sees employers, unions and Government work together in co-operation and through negotiation.

Clause 66 seeks to remove the powers of the Certification Officer to investigate trade unions proactively without first having received a complaint from a member of that trade union. Those powers were added to various provisions of the 1992 Act by schedule 2 to the 2016 Act. The enhanced investigatory powers created by the 2016 Act were unnecessary. There was no evidence of regulatory failure, and unions have consistently complied with their statutory obligations in relation to their finances, governance and reporting requirements. In fact, since their introduction, the Certification Officer has never used those additional investigatory powers either.

Subsections (2) to (9) of clause 66 remove the ability for the Certification Officer to proactively investigate a range of issues, reverting to the position pre-2016, when the Certification Officer could only consider and act upon a complaint from a member. Trade unions are voluntary associations, run by and for their members. We are returning the Certification Officer’s role to one of adjudicating when it receives members’ complaints in relation to a union.

Clause 67 seeks to reverse the effect of section 19 of the 2016 Act to remove the ability of the Certification Officer to impose financial penalties on trade unions. The previous Government presented no evidence as to why the Certification Officer needed those additional powers. Since they have come into force, no financial penalties have been imposed on any trade union.

Schedule A4 to the 1992 Act sets out the detail of the power to impose financial penalties. Clause 67(2) removes section 256D of the 1992 Act, which gave effect to the schedule, and subsection (3) removes the schedule. As a result, the clause removes subsections (1) to (3) of section 19 of the 2016 Act and schedule 3 to that Act. The Certification Officer will retain the power to issue enforcement orders, and if those orders are not complied with, the union may be found in contempt of court.

Clause 68 will repeal sections 257A and 258(1A) of the 1992 Act, as inserted by section 20 of the 2016 Act. That will remove the levy charged by the Certification Officer on employers’ associations and trade unions. Furthermore, the Certification Officer will no longer be required to report on the levy as part of its annual report to Parliament. The levy is an impediment to the rights of voluntary associations, and it attracted criticism from international bodies, including the International Labour Organisation.

Clause 68(2) removes section 257A of the 1992 Act, which sets out the requirements for a levy to be paid to the Certification Officer by trade unions and employers’ associations. Subsection (3) removes the requirement in section 258(1A) of the 1992 Act for the Certification Officer to report on the levy. The Government believe that we should interfere as little as possible in the activities of social partners, which are voluntary associations.

Clause 69 seeks to reverse the changes made by section 21 of the 2016 Act to the 1992 Act so that the right of appeal against decisions of the Certification Officer to the Employment Appeal Tribunal is on questions of law only, rather than on questions of law and fact. That brings the appeals process back in line with the position before the 2016 Act and with many other enforcement bodies of employment law. For example, appeals against the decisions of employment tribunals are considered only on points of law, not points of fact. I hope hon. Members were keeping up with that; I shall be asking questions later.

New clause 44 would place a new duty on the Certification Officer, the regulator of trade unions and employers’ associations, by requiring it to advance the objectives of the international competitiveness of the economy and its growth over the medium to long term when carrying out its statutory functions.

It is helpful at this stage to set out the role of the Certification Officer. It has been the regulator of trade unions and employers’ associations since 1975 and not only carries out regulatory functions, but has administrative and supervisory functions and a significant quasi-judicial function, where it adjudicates on complaints raised by trade union members and other parties. As part of our repeal of the provisions of the Trade Union Act, we will be repealing the Certification Officer’s enhanced investigatory and enforcement powers and the levy imposed on trade unions and employers’ associations. As such, we will be returning the role much to what it was before the Trade Union Act was implemented.

The Certification Officer’s primary role is to ensure that both unions and employers’ associations adhere to the statutory requirements in relation to their finances and governance that Parliament has decided they are required to observe. Its statutory functions are to maintain lists of trade unions and employers’ associations; determine complaints from union members against their unions relating to alleged breaches of statutory duties and some other types of union rules; determine union independence; ensure that annual returns are made; supervise mergers, political fund ballots and members’ superannuation schemes; and investigate alleged financial irregularities and breaches in relation to trade union membership. The Certification Officer therefore has no locus in relation to industrial action and no role in making assessments of how unions and employers’ associations impact the economy. It has no economists or statisticians on its payroll.

In view of the Certification Officer’s functions and role, the new clause is not appropriate. It is not clear how the Certification Officer, in making decisions on whether a union or employer association has breached its statutory obligations, will act to advance the objectives of international competitiveness of the economy and its growth in the medium to long term. Hopefully the shadow Minister will set out how that would work in practice, because it is not obvious to me how the Certification Officer could take those factors into account when determining the statutory obligations that unions and employers’ associations have to observe under Acts of Parliament. For that reason, I ask him not to press his new clause, and I commend clauses 62 to 69 to the Committee.

[Greg Smith]

I congratulate the Minister on his marathon run through clauses 62 to 69. I will focus my comments particularly on new clause 44, which, as the Minister has outlined, would require the Certification Officer to advance the objectives of the international competitiveness of the economy and its growth in the medium to long term.

--- Later in debate ---

New clause 44 is designed to help the Government achieve their growth mission by getting the unions on side with the Government’s own agenda for growth. I cannot believe that the Minister does not wish to get on board with that mission from the Prime Minister, whether it is a mission, a yardstick or milestone, or whatever it is they are calling it these days. We on the Opposition Benches would like the Certification Officer to act in such a way as to advance the international competitiveness of the economy of the United Kingdom and its growth in the medium to long term. We do not believe that the Certification Officer should be legally able to preside over industrial action that is contrary to these aims—aims that, up until today, we really did think the Government shared.

[Justin Madders]

I am grateful to the shadow Minister for taking slightly less time than I did on this grouping. For the record, I am fully supportive of the Prime Minister’s action plans, milestones, missions and all other types.

[Greg Smith]

Can he name them?

[Justin Madders]

I am afraid that would be out of scope of the Bill Committee. I hear what the shadow Minister says. His essential argument is that we should be able to judge the actions of trade unions in terms of the damage or disruption they cause to the UK economy. Of course, we want to see growth and we want to see industrial action minimised. We believe that by having a more harmonious set of industrial relations, we will see that.

Unfortunately, the shadow Minister’s new clause really mischaracterises the Certification Officer’s role. He is not, as the hon. Gentleman said, there to preside over strikes; he is there to preside over the governance, finances, reporting requirements and statutory obligations of trade unions and employers’ associations—I noted that the hon. Gentleman did not mention employers’ associations. The Certification Officer is not there to preside over industrial disputes and strikes. There are courts to intervene if a party feels aggrieved about the way industrial action has been observed, whether lawfully or not. I can see the intention of the new clause: the shadow Minister wants the Government to succeed in their growth mission. We all do, but I do not think the Certification Officer is the right or appropriate vehicle for that to take place.

Question put and agreed to.

Clause 62 accordingly ordered to stand part of the Bill.

Clauses 63 to 69 ordered to stand part of the Bill.

Clause 70

Regulations subject to affirmative resolution procedure

Question proposed, That the clause stand part of the Bill.

[Justin Madders]

The clause amends section 293 of the Trade Union and Labour Relations (Consolidation) Act 1992, with which I am sure all Members are now very familiar, to require that regulations made under the following new sections of the 1992 Act are subject to the affirmative resolution procedure. This therefore will apply to the following regulations: section 70ZC, on access agreements, response period and negotiation period; section 70ZE, on access agreements and the period to make an application to Central Arbitration Committee; section 70ZF, on access agreements and determinations by the Central Arbitration Committee; section 70ZI, on the enforcement of access agreements and the maximum penalty; and section 236A, on detriment for taking industrial action. Any other regulations made under section 293 will continue to be subject to the negative resolution procedure. I therefore commend clause 70 to the Committee.

[Greg Smith]

I will not detain the Committee with a commentary on this clause.

Question put and agreed to.

Clause 70 accordingly ordered to stand part of the Bill.

Clause 71

Devolved Welsh authorities

Question proposed, That the clause stand part of the Bill.

Employment Rights: Terminal Illness

Justin Madders Excerpts

Wednesday 18th December 2024 Westminster Hall

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Business and Trade (Justin Madders)]

It is a pleasure to see you in the Chair this morning, Sir Edward. I start by referring to my entry in the Register of Members’ Financial Interests, including my membership of the Unite and GMB unions; obviously, there is a particular reference to the GMB from one of the leading proponents of the campaign.

I congratulate my hon. Friend the Member for Corby and East Northamptonshire (Lee Barron) on securing this important debate. We have been talking about death recently: the Second Reading of the Terminally Ill Adults (End of Life) Bill was an important moment in its own right and clearly raised a lot of interest across the country. It was also a wider discussion about how we approach the end of life as a society and as individuals—and indeed as employers, who are the subject of today’s debate. Today we are continuing the discussion about how we handle this important issue.

The private Member’s Bill proposed that only those with a terminal diagnosis who were expected to live for six months or less could come under its auspices, but there can be a considerable time between diagnosis and death. It is important that that time, however long it is, is considered carefully when it comes to how we better support people to live with dignity and fulfilment. Today’s debate has raised interesting points about how we best do that. My hon. Friend was right to say that the vast majority of employers would not dream of dismissing a terminally ill member of staff, but of course the Dying to Work campaign is a much broader look at how employers can support employees in that situation; the issue is not just the prohibition on dismissal.

We had contributions from a number of Back Benchers. As always, the hon. Member for Strangford (Jim Shannon) made a thoughtful contribution. He paid tribute to Marie Curie’s work to provide wider support for individuals in this situation. I understand that colleagues in the Department for Work and Pensions continue to engage with Marie Curie on the issue. He mentioned the “Dying in poverty” report, which I have not read, but will.

My hon. Friend the Member for Morecambe and Lunesdale (Lizzi Collinge) highlighted a number of measures that are already available—I will talk about those shortly—such as reasonable adjustments and flexible working, which enable those who want to carry on working to do so in a way that suits them. She made the important point that continuing to work is particularly important for people on lower incomes.

My hon. Friend the Member for Sherwood Forest (Michelle Welsh) paid tribute to the campaigner Jacci Woodcock; I echo her tribute, and those of all the other hon. Members who praised her work. Jacci Woodcock has brought the campaign to the attention of many parliamentarians over a number of years, and the fact that we are having this debate is a tribute to the work that she started all those years ago.

As I would have expected him to do, my hon. Friend the Member for Wolverhampton West (Warinder Juss) gave a thorough legal analysis of the protections available. He noted, as did a number of hon. Members, that there is a lack of direct protection for people with a terminal illness. Equally, my hon. Friend the Member for Birmingham Northfield (Laurence Turner) gave a characteristically thorough analysis of the situation. He made the important point that employers want clear guidance, and mentioned a number of relevant codes that may need to be updated. The shadow Minister, the hon. Member for Mid Buckinghamshire (Greg Smith), also made the point that a number of employers do not have any policy at all; we can certainly take that away and look at it.

My hon. Friend the Member for Great Grimsby and Cleethorpes (Melanie Onn) made an important point about St Andrew’s hospice in particular: both the people who work there and those they help in their last days of life have protection, should it be needed. That is a reassurance to those in the hospice.

My hon. Friend the Member for Blyth and Ashington (Ian Lavery) spoke movingly about the awful moment when someone gets a diagnosis. He made the point, as did a number of hon. Members, that different people will react differently: some want to continue to work and carry on as best they can. He mentioned the potentially traumatic experience of having to notify one’s employer—seeing, in black and white, that there is a terminal illness. That is one of the challenges we would face if we were to legislate in this area.

The Liberal Democrat spokesperson, the hon. Member for Wokingham (Clive Jones), raised questions about statutory sick pay. He will be aware that the Employment Rights Bill will significantly increase the scope of those who are eligible for statutory sick pay by removing the lower earnings limit and the waiting days. I hope that his party will be able to support that Bill on Third Reading. He also mentioned raising benefits, and I will pass on his request to colleagues in the Department for Work and Pensions who are responsible for the matter.

The hon. Member for Strangford, as well as a number of other Members, made the point that people with a terminal illness want the choice to work if they can. For some people, work forms a big part of their social group. Work is about dignity; it is about finding something that occupies a person’s mind other than thoughts about the terrible situation they are in. People should be able to continue to work if they want to. Of course, not everyone wants to, and not everyone can—this issue is not simple to characterise. Everyone reacts differently, and everyone is a different situation: their medical conditions and prognoses will all be very different. People will therefore need very different kinds of support, depending on their situation.

We must deal with this issue with sensitivity, but also with flexibility. We must not only make sure that protections are in place, but enable employers and employees to have the space and freedom to come to the arrangements that suit them best. A number of hon. Members referred to protections under the Equality Act. I remind hon. Members that anyone with a health condition that has a substantial and long-term effect on their ability to carry out normal day-to-day activities is classified as disabled and therefore has protection under that Act, whether as an employee or a job applicant. Certain chronic illnesses, such as cancer, entitle the employee to automatic protection under the Act.

The vast majority of people with a terminal illness should be covered by the Equality Act. However, I have heard what various Members have said—indeed, my hon. Friend the Member for Corby and East Northamptonshire, who introduced the debate, mentioned people who may not fit within the protections of that Act, and I am happy to have a further conversation with him to understand where the gaps are. There are also more general protections relating to unfair dismissal under the Employment Rights Act 1996.

As we know, terminal illness is a longer journey for some than for others. Some facing it may wish to carry on working; some may not. However, we need to think about what support is available for people. The individual placement and support in primary care programme provides support to unwell people who are out of work and to those who need support with their health to stay in work. The support available includes physical and psychological treatment, in recognition that illness, including terminal illness, can take many forms. Alongside that, the Government provide Access to Work grants to help with the extra costs of working beyond standard reasonable adjustments and tailored support for individuals through work coaching, among other support.

More generally, the Government provide employers with guidance on health disclosures and having conversations about health, as well as guidance on legal obligations. However, I take the point that that guidance is not well understood out there. We think our guidance is helpful for employers, but we need to make sure that they are aware of it and that it is as up-to-date as possible.

As we have already touched on, terminally ill people who wish to remain in work may need reasonable adjustments to do so. One of the options for people is to look at flexible working. Quite often, terminal illnesses have a debilitating effect on people’s energy levels, so being able to take time off flexibly is important. All employees have a statutory entitlement at the moment to request flexible working from day one of their employment. The new Employment Rights Bill will update that entitlement to introduce, among other changes, a requirement that any rejection of a flexible working request be a reasonable one. We hope that will make it more likely that any such request made by an individual with a terminal illness will be accepted.

If terminally ill people do fall out of work, they are eligible for enhanced access to a range of benefits under the special rules for end of life. Those rules allow for faster, easier access to certain benefits without needing to attend a medical assessment, and in most cases entitle the recipient to the highest rate of benefit. It is important to note that the rules apply to those who are unable to work and to those who wish to continue working, but require support to do so. The special rules for end of life aim to positively impact the quality of life of people with limited time left by ensuring that they can receive the financial support they are entitled to quickly and easily.

However, as hon. Members have already referred to, we are determined to go further. As we have heard, many employers have signed up to the Dying to Work charter, a TUC initiative that aims to unite employers under a standardised action plan to support employees as and when they are concerned. The charter represents a commitment from employers to ensure that all employees experiencing terminal illness have

“security of work, peace of mind and the right to choose the best course of action for themselves and their families which helps them through this challenging period with dignity and without undue financial loss”.

The Government have worked with ACAS to promote the charter and the TUC encourages union negotiators to seek clear agreement that their employer will abide by the charter’s principles. I am among 130 Members in this place who have already signed the charter as a commitment to my staff, because I believe that we should be setting an example as employers.

I understand that, as has been mentioned already, we are looking closely at being to implement the charter in full across Government. The Government People Group, which is in the Cabinet Office and responsible for civil service human resources, is currently working to develop a package of measures for all Departments as employers, including this Department, to introduce the Dying to Work charter. The Government People Group is due to meet the TUC in January to discuss that and a Minister will then be appointed to lead that work across Government. Once we are in a position to say that we have adopted the charter, we can hopefully be much more forward in encouraging others to sign up.

I conclude by thanking everyone for their contributions in the debate. It has been a very thoughtful and considered debate; we understand that there are concerns about how the law currently operates, but the employer needs space with the employee to agree arrangements appropriate to their own situations. We therefore believe that our current flexible approach is probably the right one and will deliver the best practical working arrangements, hopefully giving people not only the protection they need, but the flexibility and space to deal with this awful situation in the way that best suits them.