Oral Answers to Questions

Michael Fabricant Excerpts

Thursday 22nd February 2024 Commons Chamber

[Stuart Andrew]

I think it is important to put it on record that almost every other society lottery is nowhere near those limits, but I do recognise that it may be getting tight for some of the individual trusts in the People’s Postcode Lottery. We have been speaking to the Gambling Commission to see what else it can do by using some of the other trusts at its disposal to increase that funding, but I take on board the points the hon. Member made.

[Michael Fabricant (Lichfield) (Con)]

Does my right hon. and learned Friend agree that individual sports clubs have a role to play in providing youth services? In that respect, can I thank the Government for funding Lichfield sports club and Chasetown football club, which have both received grants for the work they do—grants that reach up to £2.5 million?

[Lucy Frazer]

My hon. Friend is absolutely right. He is a fabulous champion for Lichfield, and I am pleased that young people in Lichfield are getting the benefit of Government funding.

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[Mr Philip Hollobone (Kettering) (Con)]

3. If the Church will have discussions with the Secretary of State for the Home Department on the Church’s guidance for clergy on supporting asylum seekers.

[Michael Fabricant (Lichfield) (Con)]

4. Whether the Church provides training for clergy on supporting asylum seekers wishing to convert to Christianity.

[Sir Desmond Swayne (New Forest West) (Con)]

6. What guidance the Church issues for clergy on supporting asylum seekers wishing to convert to Christianity.

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[Andrew Selous]

That guidance is being updated, so I can reassure my hon. Friend on that point. He is right that clergy will always rightly tell everyone they come across about the love of Jesus, but clergy do not determine asylum claims. Of course, priests are expected to uphold the law and make truthful representations of character. I hope that reassures him. I also note that in the recent Times investigation of 28 cases heard by the upper tribunal where a claimant cited conversion to Christianity as a reason to be granted asylum, only seven were approved, 13 were dismissed, and new hearings were ordered in eight other cases.

[Michael Fabricant]

My hon. Friend will have heard the comments made by my hon. Friend the Member for East Worthing and Shoreham (Tim Loughton) at Prime Minister’s questions. The problem is, this brings the Church of England into disrepute. It implies that some vicars are naive, foolish and innocent. It is important for the credibility of the Church of England that training is more robust and that well-meaning folk do not endanger our society.

[Andrew Selous]

I hear very clearly what my hon. Friend says. I know that he, like me, takes seriously the reputation of the Church of England. He cares a great deal about it, and I am grateful to him for that. I repeat the answer I gave my hon. Friend the Member for Kettering (Mr Hollobone): priests are required to use discernment, to recognise that there might be mixed motives, and always to put forward truthful representations of character.

Oral Answers to Questions

Michael Fabricant Excerpts

Thursday 11th January 2024 Commons Chamber

[Julia Lopez]

Unlike the SNP, we actually listen to what people say in referenda, so I am afraid we will not be rejoining the EU and therefore we cannot have special tax privileges on that basis. DCMS is aware of the concerns of touring orchestras. We are facilitating discussions with His Majesty’s Revenue and Customs so the orchestras know precisely where they stand on some of the issues they have raised.

[Michael Fabricant (Lichfield) (Con)]

9. What steps her Department is taking to support the growth of the film and television industry.

[The Secretary of State for Culture, Media and Sport (Lucy Frazer)]

We have seen significant growth in the film and TV industries. The support that we have taken includes reforms to audiovisual tax reliefs, uplifts for animation and children’s TV, and £28 million of investment in the UK global screen fund. As I have said, the Labour party voted against all our tax reliefs and, as far as I am aware, has offered no funding to those industries.

[Michael Fabricant]

I thank my right hon. and learned Friend for her answer. She will know that there is now more studio space for feature film production in the home counties than there is in Hollywood. However, there is a vulnerability. We found that out at the time of the American writers and actors’ strikes, when a number of my friends, and many other people who are not my friends, were made redundant temporarily because film production halted. How can we make the British film industry more independent of the American production machine?

[Lucy Frazer]

I know that my hon. Friend is himself a veteran of the silver screen, appearing in the brilliant British “House of Cards”. Our film industry is world leading. He is right that the strikes caused disruption. We work very closely with our partners in other jurisdictions. One example is the international hit film “Barbie”, which was filmed in the UK, supported 750 jobs, added £80 million to our economy and earned more than £1.1 billion at the global box office. We needed to ensure that the film industry could continue to thrive after the strikes, which is why we are continuing to support the industry with tax incentives, funding pots and, importantly, the development of a skills pipeline to ensure success long into the future.

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The hon. Member for South West Bedfordshire, representing the Church Commissioners, was asked—

[Michael Fabricant (Lichfield) (Con)]

1. Whether the Commissioners are taking steps to support choral music in cathedrals.

[The Second Church Estates Commissioner (Andrew Selous)]

The Church Commissioners provided £1 million to support music in cathedrals during the pandemic. That sum was match funded by the Cathedral Music Trust. The commissioners are extremely grateful to the trust for doing what it did to help ensure that worship in our cathedrals remains of the highest calibre.

[Michael Fabricant]

My hon. Friend will know that cathedral schools, such as Lichfield Cathedral School, play an important part in providing young choristers for cathedrals, but they are very concerned that if they have to charge 20% on their fees, and possibly lose their charitable status, they may no longer be viable and will go bust. What assessment have the commissioners made of the effects of such a change?

[Andrew Selous]

I can tell my hon. Friend that there is a concern that cathedral schools may not be able to afford to pay business rates. If the payment of business rates and the addition of VAT on fees cause choir schools to close, that would be an issue for a number of cathedrals.

Oral Answers to Questions

Michael Fabricant Excerpts

Thursday 16th November 2023 Commons Chamber

[Michael Fabricant (Lichfield) (Con)]

7. What steps her Department is taking to support commercial radio and television in the context of the development of new transmission platforms.

[The Secretary of State for Culture, Media and Sport (Lucy Frazer)]

I note that my hon. Friend has in the past been a big star on the airwaves himself. Last week, the Government introduced the Media Bill into Parliament. The Bill will ensure that our world-leading TV and radio sectors are able to compete in the new digital world, so that they can continue to produce great content for the audiences of the future.

[Michael Fabricant]

If I were to say, “Hey, Siri, can I have GB News radio?” or “Alexa, play GB News radio”—[Interruption.] Of course I would say GB News radio. It is the most successful news channel now, pulling in a bigger audience at most times of the day than either the BBC News channel or Sky—TalkTV cannot even be measured. Anyway, I am going off the subject.

[Mr Speaker]

Order. I am trying to help you, because if you do not get to the question, you will not be asking it. Come on!

[Michael Fabricant]

My question is: what provisions are in place, if any, to ensure that if I do say those things, I get GB News radio, not another channel, and I am not charged for it?

[Mr Speaker]

He’ll be asking for Radio Caroline next. [Laughter.]

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[Andrew Selous]

As always, the hon. Gentleman is on the money. I can tell him that the Church’s strategic mission and ministry investment board is doing exactly that: investing in a range of different organisations that are connecting really well with young people, often through community projects. Large numbers of them are coming to church and staying there, which is brilliant.

[Michael Fabricant (Lichfield) (Con)]

3. If the Church Commissioners will take steps to share good practice from the work of the Lichfield cathedral summer school.

[Andrew Selous]

I thank my hon. Friend and the cathedral chapter at Lichfield for their warm welcome on my recent visit, which I greatly enjoyed. The Lichfield cathedral summer school is indeed an inspiration to the wider Church in supporting children, many of whom are on free school meals, to socialise and learn before the new school year begins. It has expanded with county council support and the Government’s holiday activities and food programme, and it would like to operate throughout the school holidays. I warmly commend it.

[Michael Fabricant]

I thank my hon. Friend for his answer. It is the 20th anniversary of MusicShare, which started in Lichfield. Over 150 schools are engaged each year. I went to the anniversary concert in Lichfield cathedral last Saturday and saw “Noye’s Fludde”, which was written by Benjamin Britten. It was a spectacular occasion, with all the schoolchildren taking part. What more could Lichfield do to advise other cathedrals on how it ought to be done?

[Andrew Selous]

As so often, where Lichfield leads others follow. My hon. Friend is right that the choral tradition in our cathedrals is one of the glories of our country. Lichfield’s MusicShare programme has, I understand, reached 25,000 children, with participants of all ages, including people up to their 90s. That is, no doubt, why it has won a national award from The Times Educational Supplement.

Oral Answers to Questions

Michael Fabricant Excerpts

Thursday 26th January 2023 Commons Chamber

[Stuart Andrew]

We have had extensive engagement with both the EFL and the Premier League, encouraging them to get on with the negotiations. Sometimes they have progressed and sometimes they have stalled, but I am pleased to say that they have been progressing somewhat more rapidly in recent weeks—I think the prospect of the coming White Paper may have encouraged that—and we hope they will come up with a solution that will bring financial stability to the whole of the pyramid.

[Michael Fabricant (Lichfield) (Con)]

3. What steps she is taking to increase broadband speeds in urban areas; and if she will make a statement.

[The Secretary of State for Digital, Culture, Media and Sport (Michelle Donelan)]

We have made it as attractive as possible to deploy gigabit broadband in the UK by busting barriers and requiring Ofcom to promote competition and investment. There are now more than 80 providers investing nearly £35 billion rolling out gigabit broadband, and coverage has risen to 73% from 6% in early 2019. The vast majority of urban areas will be connected commercially, at no extra cost to the taxpayer, by 2025.

[Michael Fabricant]

As we have already heard today, the spread of broadband into rural areas is going ahead at pace, but there are pockets in urban areas—I think particularly of Westminster and the centre of Birmingham —where Openreach is using very old copper twisted-pair technology, which has been around for more than 100 years and cannot develop the speed. It is up to firms such as G.Network, Hyperoptic, Virgin Media and City Broadband to provide that service, but they do not always provide a telephone service. What can my right hon. Friend do to encourage Openreach to upgrade its technology and infrastructure in urban areas?

[Michelle Donelan]

London and the west midlands are among the best-connected regions in the country: coverage in London is at 83% and in Birmingham it is even higher at 93%. However, as my hon. Friend points out, there is still more to do. This month we have brought into force new laws that make it easier for telecom companies to get faster broadband into 9 million flats where people are living, and the vast majority of premises in urban areas will be connected by 2025, whether by Openreach or another provider, at no cost to the taxpayer.

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[Andrew Selous]

I do not think it is a question of either/or. When the chief executive of the Church Commissioners was on the “Today” programme recently explaining why we have done this, he was contacted later that day by a global majority heritage individual who had stayed away from the Church for 40 years and is now going to come back again. I say also to the hon. Gentleman that full churches do not tend to fall down.

[Michael Fabricant (Lichfield) (Con)]

7. Whether he plans to visit Lichfield cathedral to see the work of Dean Adrian Dorber.

[Andrew Selous]

I look forward very much to visiting Lichfield cathedral, but sadly that may not be until after Dean Adrian Dorber retires. I know that the dean’s work has been so significant that I will see many ongoing examples of his tremendous legacy when I do visit.

[Michael Fabricant]

My hon. Friend is absolutely right, because he will see the Herkenrode glass, which has been restored, and he will hear the magnificent organ, for which £6 million had to be raised to make it sound so beautiful. They are a reminder that a dean’s work is not just worship, but fundraising, management and all the other factors in running a great and successful cathedral such as Lichfield. What sort of training is given? It seemed to me that poor Adrian Dorber had to learn on the job and then, with a little bit more investigation, Mr Speaker—it is a bit like being a Speaker, actually—that they all have to learn on the job. Can we not improve on that?

[Andrew Selous]

One might think that Lichfield cathedral was the only cathedral in the Church of England, because my hon. Friend is one of the very few Members who regularly stands up for his cathedral. Running a cathedral, as he rightly says, is not only a major spiritual undertaking to proclaim the good news of Jesus, but a huge management task, which is why we require all new deans to undertake a component of an MBA module before taking up office.

Channel 4

Michael Fabricant Excerpts

Monday 9th January 2023 Commons Chamber

[Michelle Donelan]

The additional jobs will be going not just to Leeds, but to other areas of the UK, including Glasgow and Bristol, and that will be a decision made and communicated by Channel 4 itself. As stated, the amount of jobs outside the capital will be double the number that has already been announced. The people of Leeds can take comfort from the decision that we have made today of putting Channel 4 on a sustainable footing so that its long-term future is secure.

[Michael Fabricant (Lichfield) (Con)]

I do recall, by the way, how Channel 4 had to be dragged kicking and screaming to move to Leeds, and even then the majority of personnel still remain in London. There is no question but that Channel 4 has some questions to answer on that. At the moment, Channel 4 has only 10% of the total audience. We want to increase that and we want to see Channel 4 survive. My question is that if that is to be achieved by borrowing, will Channel 4 not sink under debt? That was the reason why I supported its sell-off.

[Michelle Donelan]

As my hon. Friend will note, we have not increased the amount that Channel 4 can borrow. That will have to be done on a case-by-case basis. What we are doing is enabling Channel 4 to have the tools that it needs to survive in a very changed media landscape, including relaxing the publisher-broadcaster remit. That will enable it to have those commercial freedoms and to stop it having its current rigid business model.

Oral Answers to Questions

Michael Fabricant Excerpts

Thursday 1st December 2022 Commons Chamber

The hon. Member for South West Bedfordshire, representing the Church Commissioners was asked—

[Michael Fabricant (Lichfield) (Con)]

6. Whether he has held recent discussions with the chair of the Association of English Cathedrals on the maintenance costs of historic cathedrals.

[The Second Church Estates Commissioner (Andrew Selous)]

My hon. Friend continues to be an exemplary advocate for Lichfield cathedral, and I gently encourage other colleagues with cathedrals and major churches in their constituencies to stick up for them in the way that he does. I have spoken at the annual general meeting of the Association of English Cathedrals and I have also asked the Government to respond to the independent review of the sustainability of church buildings, published by Bernard Taylor. This matters for many reasons, not least the £55 billion of social value—calculated using Treasury Green Book guidance—generated by cathedrals and churches in the UK, according to the “House of Good” report by the National Churches Trust.

[Michael Fabricant]

I am grateful to my hon. Friend, particularly for his kind words about me, which were very decent of him. He will know that the chair of the Association of English Cathedrals was the Dean of Lichfield cathedral, Adrian Dorber. Sadly for the community in Lichfield, he is going to retire in March, after 17 and a half years’ service. Not only does he have theological skills, but he has raised millions of pounds, and his organisational and management skills are wonderful—many deans have those, but Adrian particularly does. Does my hon. Friend think that the Church of England could make more use of people when they retire and that they should not just disappear along with all their skills?

[Andrew Selous]

I, too, thank Adrian Dorber very much for everything he has done as a highly effective Dean of Lichfield, not just for Lichfield cathedral, but for the city and the wider Church. His chairmanship of the AEC has been outstanding. If he wants to continue to serve the Church after his retirement in March, I am sure that his wisdom will continue to be very much appreciated.

Oral Answers to Questions

Michael Fabricant Excerpts

Thursday 7th July 2022 Commons Chamber

[Nigel Huddleston]

I am always delighted to meet the hon. Lady. She raises some important points, articulating precisely the need for the review, which we have brought in because we are very aware of some of the issues she raised. Some of the individual entities—Airbnb and so on—are already taking action on antisocial behaviour and the number of people who can be at parties. We expect, and require them actually, to continue to be responsible for and responsive to their customers and, indeed, local communities. We have not pre-empted the conclusions of the review, so I ask her to please contribute to that review.

[Michael Fabricant (Lichfield) (Con)]

The hon. Member for York Central (Rachael Maskell) is absolutely right to identify the issue that she has in York and in other parts of the country, but will my hon. Friend also bear in mind that these lets generate income for the area too, and many restaurants and other places would probably go out of business were it not for some of these lets?

[Nigel Huddleston]

My hon. Friend is making an important point, and that is why this is a call for evidence. It is about information; we have not come to conclusions or, indeed, decisions about potential legislation. There is a balance to be had here. Many people rent out a spare room, and in particular in these straitened times, it is very important that they can get additional revenue where they can.

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[Ms Dorries]

This has been an objective of mine since I first arrived in the Department. Yesterday I visited the British Library, which holds many of the nation’s treasures. We want to ensure that collections in libraries, museums and art galleries reach across the country, so that everybody has access to and can see, enjoy and learn from those national treasures. At the beginning of my tenure and recently, I asked every organisation to look again at what they are doing to ensure that that happens.

[Michael Fabricant (Lichfield) (Con)]

T5. My right hon. Friend has already said that the penetration of high speed broadband has gone up in just three years from 6% to 69%, particularly in rural areas. However, is she aware that in parts of Westminster and Birmingham, for example, it is very, very slow? What can we do to speed up urban broadband?

[Mr Speaker]

Nowhere more so than in the House of Commons. Come on!

Channel 4 Privatisation

Michael Fabricant Excerpts

Tuesday 14th June 2022 Commons Chamber

[Lucy Powell]

My hon. Friend makes a really good point. I will come on to some examples in my speech.

Secondly, Channel 4 unashamedly supports British jobs and the British economy. The UK’s creative industries are one of our biggest and fastest-growing sectors, contributing more to our GDP than aerospace, automotive, life sciences and energy put together. With the UK’s creative industries growing at four times the rate of our economy as a whole, most other countries are looking to create home-grown companies of the kind that our Government are actively undermining. In an era of stagnant growth, when Britain needs to win the global race for jobs of the future, why are we looking to sell off a critical part of our creative ecosystem?

Channel 4’s public service remit is integral to this success. It is a driver of levelling up in the creative industries, which have all too often been focused in London. With more than half its commissions outside London, and with headquarters in Leeds, Channel 4 supports thousands of jobs in Yorkshire and across the nations and regions. Film4 has built on Halifax’s success to make it a world-leading hub in film.

[Michael Fabricant (Lichfield) (Con)]

Does the hon. Lady not recall that Channel 4 was dragged kicking and screaming into moving its headquarters outside London? Has she not visited Leeds and has she visited London? Does she seriously think that Leeds can be called the headquarters of Channel 4 when most of the senior management are still firmly anchored in London?

[Lucy Powell]

So the hon. Gentleman now thinks that Channel 4 is not important to Leeds. Perhaps he might want to take up the issue with Leeds MPs and Leeds constituents, who take a very different view. They support what Channel 4 is doing in its levelling-up agenda, which is evident for all to see.

Channel 4 supports skills and widens access to the industry. At a time when employers are crying out for talent and people across the country are looking for jobs, Channel 4 is supporting thousands of young people and apprentices each year. The Secretary of State has said that her defining mission is

“ensuring that everybody from every background has access to the arts”,

so why is she undermining an important access driver in this way? Thanks to its unique publisher-broadcaster model, Channel 4 invests half a billion pounds a year on average in the independent production sector. That has helped to grow and start many of our most successful production houses.

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[Ms Dorries]

Levelling up is one of this Government’s primary objectives. We will be looking at bidders interested in purchasing Channel 4 to see whether they meet our levelling-up objective, which is about moving some of our major organisations and creating jobs outside London. That will be a consideration.

[Michael Fabricant]

Further to the last question, it is not just Channel 4; for example, it was Netflix that made “Game of Thrones” in Belfast, throwing in millions of pounds—far more than Channel 4, although I do not underestimate Channel 4’s importance.

My questions are these. First, will my right hon. Friend set out in her speech that the contract for the sale of this public service broadcaster will set out certain minimum criteria—in other words, news content, regional content and British content? Secondly, is she aware that many production companies feel squeezed out by Channel 4 —[Interruption.] Oh yes, they feel that at the moment there is a cosy arrangement with some production companies while others are ignored by Channel 4, and those smaller companies would actually welcome a change at the top.

[Ms Dorries]

As someone who has worked in the industry, my hon. Friend is deeply knowledgeable about how Channel 4 and the industry works. As I said in a previous answer, “Up Next”, the broadcasting White Paper, makes it very clear that that distinctive British content that makes Channel 4 so successful is part of the criteria.

The broadcasting White Paper is a fantastic piece of work, and I strongly recommend that everybody in the House reads it, as it makes it very clear what the Government’s objectives are for the broadcasting sector. Furthermore, we are taking the decision as a Government to look at broadcasting in the round—to look at the whole broadcasting landscape in the UK. I know that the conversation and the debate are focusing mainly on Channel 4, but we have to consider broadcasting in the round right now.

In addition, Channel 4 faces a series of unique challenges—challenges that other public service broadcasters with different ownership models do not face. Streamers such as Netflix spent £779 million on UK original content produced in 2020, more than twice as much as Channel 4. While other PSBs, such as the BBC and Channel 5, have the freedom to make and sell their own content, Channel 4 has no inhouse studio. Its ownership model restricts it from borrowing money or raising private sector capital. It is left almost entirely reliant on ad revenues. Those revenues were already shifting rapidly online, and the competition is only set to heat up now that Disney+ and Netflix have confirmed their plans to enter the advertising market. In addition to that, we have, later this year, new, huge streamers coming into our homes, which will also, quite probably, be operating on an advertising model.

Under its current form of ownership, Channel 4 has fewer options to invest, fewer options to innovate and, crucially, fewer tools with which to grow. There are serious challenges that require serious plans to overcome, not the kneejerk reaction or hyperbole of the Opposition.

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[Ms Dorries]

We agree on many things, and we agree on that.

[Michael Fabricant]

On a point of order, Madam Deputy Speaker. I may have inadvertently misled the House. I said that it was Netflix that produced “Game of Thrones”, but it was not. It was HBO and Sky Atlantic that invested a quarter of a billion pounds in Northern Ireland, considerably more than any other broadcasting company.

[Madam Deputy Speaker (Dame Eleanor Laing)]

I thank the hon. Gentleman, but that was more of an intervention; it was supposed to be a point of order. None the less, I am grateful to him for correcting the record so swiftly, so I thank him for his point.

Oral Answers to Questions

Michael Fabricant Excerpts

Thursday 26th May 2022 Commons Chamber

[Ms Dorries]

We have targeted in the Online Safety Bill the platforms that create the most harm and where the most harm happens. We have done that in consultation with a number of stakeholders, including the Children’s Commissioner, but we do understand the problem that the hon. Member talks about. The Under-Secretary of State for Digital, Culture, Media and Sport, my hon. Friend the Member for Croydon South (Chris Philp), is taking the Bill through Committee. We are looking at other platforms where harm exists and the practices that the hon. Member for Slough (Mr Dhesi) talks about. What I will say is that the Online Safety Bill cannot fix absolutely everything on the internet—we cannot fix the internet, but we can do as much as possible within that Bill to reduce as much harm as possible, because keeping children safe is at the heart of the Bill and is the core principle that runs through it. We are open to discussions about anything we can do to improve the Bill, but we think we have gone as far as we can in protecting freedoms of speech and democratic content and protecting children, who are the most important part of the Bill. I am sure my hon. Friend will have discussions with the hon. Member.

[Michael Fabricant (Lichfield) (Con)]

Like the hon. Member for Edinburgh West (Christine Jardine), I have worked in the broadcast industry. Subject to certain conditions, I support the sale of Channel 4. Will my right hon. Friend confirm that any sell-off will be subject to requirements to make minimum British content, news content and the innovative programming that we so much enjoy on that station?

[Ms Dorries]

I thank my hon. Friend for enabling me to lay out some important points. Channel 4 is being sold as a public service broadcaster and the criteria that he has outlined will absolutely be in there. If anybody cares to read the broadcasting White Paper, we have put a number of things into the media Bill—not just the sale of Channel 4—that will help Channel 4, including provisions on prominence and the introduction of a code that will put all public service broadcasters and streamers on a level playing field in terms of what they can broadcast in the UK. It will be sold as a public service broadcaster and there will be a requirement to continue to make distinctive British content, such as “Derry Girls”, “Gogglebox” and all those programmes that are distinctly British. There will be a requirement to do that, as well as what he has listed.

Draft Network and Information Systems (EU Exit) (Amendment) Regulations 2021

Michael Fabricant Excerpts

Monday 13th December 2021 General Committees

[Michael Fabricant (Lichfield) (Con)]

Does my hon. Friend think that these changes not only fill a gap from our leaving the EU but create an environment whereby we can perform better than if we had remained in the EU?

[Julia Lopez]

I would like to provide my hon. Friend with a very positive story about Brexit through these regulations, but this is quite a technical and narrow change. When it comes to his ambitions, we have a much more ambitious agenda in the coming year or so.

Without the information required, the regulator is not aware of the incident, and citizens and businesses relying on that service are affected for longer. The threshold for what qualifies as a reportable incident for the majority of the six sectors is set in statutory guidance by the relevant regulators. Only one sector—digital service providers, which are regulated by the Information Commissioner—has its set in legislation. All other regulators are able to react to the changing circumstances and amend the thresholds as necessary.

The Information Commissioner is limited by that retained EU law. That is due to how the NIS directive was established. In the EU, digital service providers are regulated at Union level, rather than at individual country level. For that reason, the thresholds that establish whether an incident has had a substantial impact on the security of a network and information system were not left to individual member states to establish, as is the case with all other sectors. These were set out in a Commission implementing regulation, which harmonised the rules across the whole EU. Following our withdrawal, it remained embedded in the UK statute book by virtue of the European Union (Withdrawal) Act 2018. Therefore, the thresholds remain at the level suitable for the EU, which has a population of 500 million, not for the just under 70 million of our own population. That means that they are unable to be changed to reflect our new position as an independent country outside the EU.

Parameters such as the amount of users impacted or user hours lost from an incident are set far too high currently for the UK, and considerations relating to impacts on EU citizens are not appropriate for our own NIS legislation. The Information Commissioner has received only one report since we left the EU. That is not surprising if an incident must have a noticeable impact on an economy the size of the EU in order to be reported in the UK. Without incident reporting, the commissioner will not have an understanding of the threats to and impacts on the sector, and will not be able to identify threats, provide guidance or take enforcement action if appropriate. For the NIS regulations to remain effective in protecting the essential services provided, we have to be able to set the reporting thresholds at a suitable level for our own country. This statutory instrument is designed to resolve that issue by removing those deficient provisions in retained EU law and allowing the Information Commissioner to set the thresholds to a level that effectively reflects our position and size.

The enabling provisions under section 8 of the 2018 Act allow changes to be made to rectify EU exit-related deficiencies only. I am content that the amendments made in this statutory instrument do not introduce new policy, although we have ambitions in that regard; rather, they are meant to ensure that the original policy objective is achieved. The Information Commissioner has already carried out a consultation on the level of thresholds to be set to represent the UK market, and the practice of setting appropriate thresholds for reporting is already in place for every other competent authority. This statutory instrument will bring digital service providers in line with all other operators of essential services in the UK.

Additional amendments in the statutory instrument cover textual changes as a consequence of the UK’s withdrawal from the EU. This includes a requirement for digital services providers to consider the geographic impact of an incident in relation to the UK rather than across the UK. The NIS regulations form part of the Government’s toolkit to protect digital services, which citizens rely on in their day-to-day lives, and help to support the functioning of the digital and physical economies. That is why it is essential that we maintain the framework for protecting our essential services and deter those who seek to act in a subversive manner towards them. For those who do unfortunately fall victim, it is necessary to provide support in guidance. To do this, competent authorities have to be informed of such incidents.

This statutory instrument incorporates much-needed amendments to the NIS legislative framework, which will lead to increased security of digital service providers and their network and information systems. Although the amendments are minor and technical in nature, they are none the less critical for maintaining the effectiveness of the NIS legislation and for providing the Information Commissioner with the right information to support digital services in the UK. I commend the regulations to the Committee.

[Chris Elmore (Ogmore) (Lab)]

It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Mr Bone. May I start by saying that I hope that in the months ahead I can work constructively with the Minister in my new role? I accept that there will be times when we will disagree, but I hope that she will always know that that will be on matters of policy and never, ever personal.

We do not oppose the regulations, which address EU exit-related deficiencies in the retained EU legislation that regulates the security of network and information systems of core UK service providers. There are no specific points that I would like to raise in direct relation to the regulations, which seek to recognise the UK’s position outside the European Union and the necessary legislative changes that need to be addressed. I also note that no concerns were raised by the Secondary Legislation Scrutiny Committee. I would, however, like to make some more general observations on the SI itself, and I would be grateful to the Minister if she could answer my questions either now or in writing.

The prevalence of cyber-related attacks has only grown in recent years. In August it was reported that nine cyber-attacks on the UK’s transport infrastructure were missed by mandatory reporting laws due to the reporting thresholds being so high. To add further concern, the Government were alerted to those attacks only because the information was given voluntarily.

It is clear, given the UK’s position outside the European Union, that changes need to made to the setting of parameters for digital service providers, which is currently still retained in EU legislation. However, given that it has been over a year since the end of the transition period, there is concern that we are only now finding time to debate issues relating to our national cyber infrastructure. As noted in the SI, having the EU set the parameters for incident reporting by digital service providers does not work effectively for the UK as a stand-alone nation, as the Minister has touched on. The main issue is that the reporting threshold for EU nations is too high to trigger reporting in the UK. The Opposition recognise and agree that changes need to be made to reflect the UK outside the EU. We cannot have a situation where the Information Commissioner is not alerted to cyber incidents that have caused disruption to the activities of digital service providers, many of which are crucial to the smooth, day-to-day running of society.

The Minister has said that this statutory instrument is not going to be used as part of any future relationship agreement with the European Union. Cyber-attacks and breaches of digital infrastructure are not unique to one nation. Digital is a shared commodity, not bound by physical borders. Could the Minister elaborate on what discussions are being had with European neighbours on joint working reporting of cyber-attacks against digital service providers? Although I recognise the need for the UK to have its own reporting mechanism, close collaboration on shared security issues remains crucial.

[Michael Fabricant]

Does the hon. Gentleman agree that this is not just about the European Union? The United Kingdom has just entered into an agreement with the state of Israel, which is perhaps, some would argue, the most advanced country in the world on cyber-security. Does he welcome that?

[Chris Elmore]

For the avoidance of doubt and for the record, I do welcome the collaborative agreement. Clearly, the issue of cyber-security applies beyond the European Union; in fact, it affects all nations around the world. What we are discussing today, however, as the Minister has said, is the need to improve the current state of play from when we left the European Union—the transition period ended over a year ago. Of course, I agree entirely that the more relationships we have in terms of improving our data and cyber-security, the better.

[Michael Fabricant]

Good answer.

[Chris Elmore]

I am delighted.

Given that the proposed changes will increase the scope and responsibilities of the Information Commissioner’s Office, does the Minister believe that the Information Commissioner has enough staff and wider resource to complete those duties? The explanatory memorandum states that the next post-implementation review of the NIS regulations will take place by May 2022 and that subsequent reviews will take place no later than every five years. Given the rapid pace of change in innovation in digital services, will the Minister seek to ensure that reviews take place no later than every two years, to keep pace with any change in the sector?

Finally, the explanatory memorandum states:

“The legislation does not apply to activities that are undertaken by small businesses.”

I am sure that all Members present recognise that the pandemic has accelerated the growing trend for more and more businesses to move online, especially small business owners. What discussions are taking place to protect small businesses that are classed as digital service providers but are not recognised by the ICO as relevant data service providers, as they continue to grow in number? Beyond that, as I have said, we do not object to the regulations.