VAT: Independent Schools

Munira Wilson Excerpts

Tuesday 8th October 2024 Commons Chamber

[Munira Wilson (Twickenham) (LD)]

Thank you very much, Mr Speaker, and I am grateful for the Health Secretary’s advice—[Interruption.] I did not need coaching—you will hear that soon enough.

When I heard that today’s debate would be about schools, I thought, thank goodness, we are finally going to give the crisis in our classrooms the attention it deserves and have a long, overdue serious debate about the squeeze on school budgets, the shortage of specialist teachers, the dangerous state of many school buildings, the crisis in special educational needs provision, or the mental health of children, but no. In fairness, expecting the Conservative party suddenly to start prioritising those issues in opposition, after it spent years neglecting them in government, would be foolishly optimistic. Nevertheless, I hope that we will have the chance to debate them properly soon.

A priority for the Liberal Democrats is ensuring that every child, no matter their background, gets the support and attention that they need at school, so that they leave with the skills, confidence and resilience to be happy and successful. That means the Government investing in education as we invest in other vital infrastructure. In fact, Liberal Democrats believe that education is the single best investment we can make in our children’s potential and our country’s future. That is why in our manifesto we set out a number of ways to make that investment. We argued that putting a dedicated qualified mental health professional in every primary and secondary school was important. We argued for an increase in school and college funding per pupil, above the rate of inflation every year. We argued for school meals to be extended to all children in poverty, and for a tutoring guarantee for every disadvantaged pupil who needs extra support.

That package of investment in our state schools would improve and boost the performance and opportunities for every child, as well as closing the attainment gap that limits the life chances of too many children from disadvantaged backgrounds. Crucially, we set out in detail how it could all be paid for, including by increasing the tax on social media firms who have done so much to worsen the mental health crisis in our schools. That is a much bolder package of investment than the one this Government have set out so far, and it is paid for fairly, not by taxing parents’ own investment in their children’s education. I think the shadow Education Secretary was advocating raising income tax to invest in education—[Interruption.]

[Damian Hinds]

Even for a Lib Dem that is pushing it.

[Munira Wilson]

The shadow Education Secretary was suggesting to the Minister that that is where he could find some money—[Interruption.]

[Mr Speaker]

Order. If Members wish to intervene, they should do it properly. Let us not have side banter, as the rest of the Chamber needs to get in as well.

[Munira Wilson]

Thank you, Mr Speaker. As we have a Treasury Minister rather than an Education Minister opening the debate for the Government, I say gently that he should look at what the Liberal Democrats proposed on reforming capital gains tax as a way to fund some of the important investment that we need in education, rather than looking at taxing parents’ choices to invest in their children’s education.

The Government’s policy would undermine two important principles. First, education should simply not be taxed. As we have heard, all education provided by an eligible body, including university education, music lessons, and tutoring are exempt from VAT, and VAT should not be imposed on any of those things because education is fundamentally a public good. Secondly, parents have the right to choose what education setting is best for their child. As Liberals we have always championed choice, and believe that nothing should get in the way of those important choices. Of course we want to get to a point where every parent can choose a local state school that meets their child’s needs and gives them the best possible start in life, and opportunities to flourish. But let us be honest with ourselves: that is not the reality facing many parents today, especially when their children have special educational needs.

Liberal Democrats have many times raised the crisis in SEND provision. Conservative cuts to school and council budgets mean that many parents and carers simply cannot get their children the support they deserve. The Minister talked a moment ago about sorting out state-school SEND provision, so that no parent with a child with SEND would need to send their child to a private school, but does he recognise that in order to sort out and fix our broken SEND system we will need not millions but billions of pounds? I am not entirely sure that the Chancellor will be giving that kind of money to the Department for Education.

[Jess Brown-Fuller (Chichester) (LD)]

In my constituency there are three independent schools, one of which is a choir school. In one of those independent schools there are 29 children with diagnosed SEND, and only one with an EHCP with that as the named school. Does my hon. Friend agree that given the crisis in attaining EHCPs, especially in West Sussex county council, which is ranked fifth worst in the country and where only 3.6% of EHCPs are given within the statutory framework of 20 weeks, there needs to be more support in dealing with the deluge that this policy will cause county councils—

[Mr Speaker]

Order. May I suggest that interventions are meant to be short and not a speech, especially if you are on the list? People are going to go down to a six-minute time limit shortly. Please, think of others.

[Munira Wilson]

I thank my hon. Friend for that intervention. She is absolutely right to say that because only children with EHCPs will be exempt from the VAT charge, there will be the unintended consequence of adding yet further pressure to what is already a broken system. Indeed, a parent in my constituency has written to me along those lines to say that they now feel that they will have to go through the application process. So many parents and carers are forced to navigate a postcode lottery and wait months, as my hon. Friend said, to get the support that their children are entitled to.

[Dr Rupa Huq (Ealing Central and Acton) (Lab)]

The hon. Lady is a London MP like me, and part of the problem is that the term “private schools” covers such a wide category and such a multitude of sins. Does she agree that this is also quite a London issue? I have an unusually large number of these schools, with 14 in my boundary—there were 15 a year ago but one has since closed. I know my hon. Friends on the Front Bench would be happy to meet me so I can feed in the comments that I hear at the advice surgery and when door knocking, which would take too long to recount right now.

[Munira Wilson]

I thank the hon. Lady for her intervention but I would gently say two things. First, I would not describe private schools as covering a “multitude of sins”. This is also not just a London problem. My hon. Friend the Member for Edinburgh West (Christine Jardine) who represents an Edinburgh constituency says that she has the highest number of private schools in the country. It is a nationwide problem, and the consequences have simply not been thought through.

Let me return to my point about special educational needs and disability. For many families, local state schools simply are not equipped to give those children the support they deserve. That is why, as we have heard, there are almost 100,000 children in independent schools who have special educational needs and disabilities but not an EHCP. That is tens of thousands of parents, not the super-wealthy, but carers, who are working hard and making tough choices so that their children can have the nurturing education they need.

[Shaun Davies (Telford) (Lab)]

For 14 years—the first five under coalition Government—state schools in Telford and across the country were told to be efficient, more creative and innovative to save money as budgets were frozen and then cut. Why can private schools not also be as efficient and creative to cut costs in their operations? It seems it is one rule for one set of parents’ children, and another rule for the vast majority of children.

[Munira Wilson]

I point out for a start that when the Liberal Democrats were in government, school budgets increased in real terms, and we introduced the pupil premium to help the most disadvantaged children. When the Tories were left to their own devices, they slashed budgets, and the pupil premium has been devalued over the years.

[Zöe Franklin (Guildford) (LD)]

I just want to return briefly to the topic of EHCPs. We all know that there is a crisis in special educational needs. In my own constituency, a quarter of pupils attend an independent school. At least 700 or more students do not have an EHCP. Those parents who are paying for places at private schools desperately want to get support for their children. Does my hon. Friend agree that it is crucial, if the Government insist on pursuing an ill thought-through policy that impacts on children with special educational needs, that all children with diagnosed educational needs—with or without an EHCP—and those eligible for disability allowance should be exempt from that VAT?

[Munira Wilson]

I would rather the Government do not go through with this policy at all and drop it, but if they insist on pressing ahead with it, all children with special educational needs, whether or not they are on the SEND register—they can be identified in other ways—should be exempted.

I will share a story from a constituent who contacted me recently. They have two children, both of whom have complex learning needs and have struggled to thrive in their local state school. After moving to a private school that was better able to support them, they are finally making progress and most importantly, to quote the parent, they

“don’t feel like they are failing”.

The children’s family has made huge financial sacrifices to give them this education, including remortgaging their home and cashing in pension plans. As this policy is set to be introduced in the middle of the school year, this family and thousands of others have little time to prepare or save. It will be disruptive for children who have already suffered enough disruption to their education in recent years. This parent who contacted me told me:

“We are terrified of the prospect of having to uproot our children for a second time because we can’t see a way to afford this rise.”

Labour’s rushed-through and ill thought-through plans will snatch opportunities away from thousands of children just like my constituents.

--- Later in debate ---

[Mr Speaker]

Order. May I gently say to the hon. Member that when you say “you”, it is as though I have said it? I want to reassure you that I am not involved in any of this.

[Munira Wilson]

Mr Speaker, I would not dare to second-guess your position on this issue. The best way to deal with this issue is to drop the policy entirely, but if we are to exempt children with special educational needs, a good place to start is the SEND register. Just yesterday, I was discussing with one of the headteachers in my constituency the number of children on their SEND register and how they go about identifying them. Schools already do that in the state sector to support children. We could apply those same rules and regulations in the private sector, and those children should be exempted. However, I would rather this policy was just dropped altogether.

For all these reasons, the Liberal Democrats do not support ending the VAT exemption for independent schools. Instead, we want to see a better partnership between independent schools and local state schools. Many already do that, and I am not just talking about a few bursaries here and free use of a pool there; I am talking about genuine partnership working and the sort of brilliant collaboration that I have seen in schools in my constituency, where Hampton school and Lady Eleanor Holles school share staff time with Reach academy in Feltham. They have also been mentoring and coaching pupils for medical school and other university places, and the results have been phenomenal in a disadvantaged part of west London, where typically students were not going on to further or higher education. That partnership has borne immense fruit for those young disadvantaged people.

[Josh Babarinde (Eastbourne) (LD)]

Stripping the politics out of this, it is abundantly clear that substance aside, the breakneck implementation is completely wrong and will throw families, children and communities into chaos. It will also compromise the work of schools such as Eastbourne college, which does great stuff giving back to the community as part of the coastal schools partnership. Does my hon. Friend agree that if this Government are to insist on this policy going ahead, they should at the very least delay it to ensure that our schools, our staff and our communities are not thrown unnecessarily into chaos?

[Munira Wilson]

I thank my hon. Friend for his important intervention. As I have said before, it is best that the policy is dropped altogether, but if the Government insist on going ahead, it should be delayed. We need further provision to exempt all special educational needs children, and not just those with EHCPs. Those are two critical factors in trying to mitigate the damage this policy will do.

[Mr Gideon Amos (Taunton and Wellington) (LD)]

Does my hon. Friend recognise that thousands of children do not have EHCPs? My hon. Friend the Member for Chichester (Jess Brown-Fuller) referred to the deluge that would surely come to local authorities in the form of applications for EHCPs. That will be just when, because of the legacy of the Conservative Government, local authorities are on their knees and cannot cope with the level of demand. That will further disadvantage the already most disadvantaged children.

[Munira Wilson]

I think many of us—certainly on this side of the House—would recognise the point my hon. Friend makes, and many have already made it. I suspect that quite a few people on the Government Benches would also recognise that this policy will be a real challenge, because Members from all parts of this House have been turning out in vast numbers at any debate on special educational needs to discuss the major crisis in our state school provision for SEND pupils. The system is broken, and it will have further pressures still.

I come back to the point I was making on partnership working. The sort of exemplary work I was talking about benefits children in the state and independent sectors, and we want to see it become the norm in every part of the country. I fear that it will be one of the first things to suffer when schools are forced to make cutbacks under the Government’s policy. Let us remember that most independent schools are no Eton or Winchester; 40% of them have fewer than 100 pupils. Those small schools, often in rural places, will struggle to absorb this extra cost.

[Mr Adnan Hussain (Blackburn) (Ind)]

Does the Member agree that the policy threatens the viability of many independent schools that have charitable status and serve deprived communities, including many independent schools in Blackburn, such as faith schools and those schools serving children with special educational needs? This policy will put those schools on their knees and vastly increase the number of spaces that will be required in public schools. In Blackburn, we do not have those spaces.

[Mr Speaker]

I gently say to the Liberal Democrat spokesperson that you have now been going 18 minutes. [Interruption.] No, let me finish before you make a judgment call. I do not want you to speak for longer than the Government Minister, and we are shortly in danger of doing that. I am sure you will be coming to the end of your speech.

[Munira Wilson]

I apologise, Mr Speaker. I was just coming on to the last paragraph of my speech, but I wanted to take some interventions from those on the Liberal Democrat Benches.

[Mr Speaker]

Perhaps the answer should be that you cut the speech if you want to take more interventions.

[Munira Wilson]

May I just finish by urging Ministers to look, instead of a damaging and counterproductive tax on education, at ways to get independent schools to do more of that great partnership work with state schools and their communities and to ensure they are investing in that local community? Let us ensure that every child, no matter their background or circumstances, is given the support and opportunities they need to thrive. Let us support investment in our education, not penalise it.

[Mr Speaker]

We come to a maiden speech, and we are now on a six-minute limit.

Independent School Fees: VAT

Munira Wilson Excerpts

Wednesday 21st February 2024 Westminster Hall

[Munira Wilson (Twickenham) (LD)]

Thank you very much, Mr Henderson; it is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship. I congratulate the hon. Member for Northampton South (Andrew Lewer) on securing this debate.

My Liberal Democrat colleagues and I aspire to a scenario in which the offering in all our state schools is so high—so superior—that parents do not feel compelled to send their children to the independent sector. It would be an education system that enables every individual, no matter their background or their needs, to flourish, succeed and fulfil their potential, wherever they are educated. But as liberals, we are also a party that has always championed choice, and it is important that parents are able to choose where their children are educated, and independent schools should always be one of those choices.

Let me be clear: we do not support ending the VAT exemption for independent schools, for the very simple reason that we do not support taxing education. As we have already heard, all education provided by an eligible body, including university education, music lessons and tutoring sessions, are exempt from VAT, and we would not want VAT or any other tax to be charged on any of these things. However, there needs to be a quid pro quo. Independent schools should give back to their local community, in order to retain that right; and, as we have heard, many already do. There are many excellent examples of collaborative work around the country. In my own constituency, Hampton School and Lady Eleanor Holles School have an exemplary partnership with Reach Academy in Feltham, sharing staff time, and mentoring and coaching of pupils for medical school and other university places. The relationship is about partnership and sharing not just swimming pools and theatre spaces but, as I have said, specialist teachers and specialist facilities.

That sort of ingrained partnership work benefits both the state sector and the independent sector, and it needs to become the norm for all. Removing the VAT exemption from independent schools would reduce partnership work and also hit parents who have felt that, for whatever reason, the state sector cannot meet their children’s needs, especially if they have additional needs but do not have an EHCP. I know of many examples of parents who have scrimped and saved, or used a little bit of inheritance that they may have had from their own parents, to send their child, who is not thriving in a state school, to the independent sector, where they are able to thrive. As we have heard, many independent schools are not the Etons, the Winchesters or the Harrows; many are small schools with fewer than 400 pupils.

We should all aspire to make the best investment we can in education and to make every school as good as possible. Taxing education is not the way to achieve that goal.

Oral Answers to Questions

Munira Wilson Excerpts

Tuesday 9th May 2023 Commons Chamber

[John Glen]

That is a legitimate concern to raise and it is why we have followed the analytical approach to which I referred. We will be working closely with the Department for Levelling Up, Housing and Communities to look at each proposal by the end of the year. We will be having that certainty on the tax incentives over those five years and making local authorities an accountable body for the delivery of this. The right hon. Gentleman’s whole political doctrine is about the distinctions that exist in different communities around the United Kingdom, and that is why we have a variety of interventions designed to make an effective impact in different places across the UK.

[Munira Wilson (Twickenham) (LD)]

2. What recent discussions he has had with the Secretary of State for Education on the potential impact of inflation on the provision of school meals.

[The Chief Secretary to the Treasury (John Glen)]

The Chancellor has regular discussions with Cabinet colleagues on a range of issues. The autumn statement 2022 provided an additional £2.3 billion in funding for schools this year and next, over and above the totals announced at the spending review in 2021. That means that school funding next year will be £58.8 billion, exceeding 2010 levels of per pupil funding in real terms. That will help schools to manage costs, including those of school meals.

[Munira Wilson]

Since Liberal Democrats in government rolled out universal infant free school meals in 2014, funding for them has increased by just 11p. Given the soaring food costs, that is resulting in a real shortfall in meeting schools’ costs, which is having to be subsidised by cutting teaching budgets. The shortfalls range from 11p per meal in my local authority area of Richmond upon Thames to as much as 39p per meal in Hampshire. Will the Treasury provide the extra cash so that free school meal funding reflects the true costs that schools face or will the Minister continue to leave our schools and children short-changed?

[John Glen]

I do not agree with that analysis. The free school meals funding for 2023-24 was set in line with precedent every year, using inflation forecasts in the autumn prior. About 1.9 million pupils are claiming a free school meal at lunchtime, which equates to 22.5% of pupils in state-funded schools; together with the 1.25 million infants supported through the universal infant free school meal policy, this is having an impact. However, I recognise the pressures across the whole economy, which is why, as I said, the Government gave those additional funds in the autumn statement last year.

Oral Answers to Questions

Munira Wilson Excerpts

Tuesday 20th December 2022 Commons Chamber

[John Glen]

I am more than happy to meet my hon. Friend again to discuss the matter in detail. As I mentioned in my reply to my right hon. Friend the Member for Basingstoke (Dame Maria Miller), the situation with the capital programmes is under urgent review across the country. I hope that further announcements will be made in the new year, but I will certainly meet my hon. Friend anyway.

[Munira Wilson (Twickenham) (LD)]

A few months ago, the Chancellor promised at the Dispatch Box that he would make a further announcement about the energy bill relief scheme before Christmas. Nothing has yet been forthcoming. Small businesses, charities and schools in my constituency either face going under or face huge deficits in the coming year. Will he confirm when he will make a further announcement about support for businesses, the public sector and charities, and whether this House will have the opportunity to scrutinise it?

[Jeremy Hunt]

I can absolutely confirm that the House will not have to wait very long for that announcement—and yes, it will have a chance to scrutinise the announcement in detail.

Autumn Statement

Munira Wilson Excerpts

Thursday 17th November 2022 Commons Chamber

[Jeremy Hunt]

I can. My hon. Friend advocates formidably for pensioners and other constituents in Southend. The inflationary increase in the state pension is worth on average £860. There will also be a £300 payment to pensioners next year to help with cost of living pressures and for an average house a £500 reduction in their fuel bill at today’s prices. She can tell her constituents that that package shows a Conservative Government who care about our most vulnerable citizens.

[Munira Wilson (Twickenham) (LD)]

The Chancellor rightly claimed that education is not just an economic mission but a moral mission, so can he explain to the House why he is still able to find £6.5 billion in tax cuts for the biggest banks over the next five years, but no money to expand free school meal provision, when 800,000 children living in poverty are not even entitled to a hot meal at school? Hungry children cannot learn. So much for his moral mission.

[Jeremy Hunt]

Where the hon. Lady and I agree is on the importance of education, and the importance of supporting children and lifting families out of poverty. Where we disagree is on the role of banks, which create enormous wealth for this country and actually help to fund our NHS and schools by the corporation taxes they pay.

Out-of-Turn Supplementary Estimates 2022-23

Munira Wilson Excerpts

Monday 24th October 2022 Commons Chamber

[Munira Wilson (Twickenham) (LD)]

The second package for businesses also extends to public services. Two primary schools in my constituency have been in touch, because their energy bills have gone up fivefold from £30,000 to £150,000 a year. Undoubtedly, the package put forward will help them a bit, but I am getting feedback from schools that six months is not enough to plan ahead, particularly when their budgets for next year have already been set. They are having to make terribly difficult decisions about laying off teaching assistants and cutting school trips and extracurricular activities. Will the Minister consider at least a year-long package of support for schools and other public services?

[Andrew Griffith]

The hon. Lady is absolutely right that the package extends to not just businesses but schools, hospitals, the public sector and charities—the important third sector. She articulates well the concern of her local schools; of course, it is important to have as much time and certainty as possible to plan. I am sure that the Minister for Climate, who is next to me, and the Secretary of State for Education will have heard her points.

The House will note that both these energy schemes are expensive. Indeed, they were the largest single element of the plans to which the gilt market reacted in previous weeks. Rather than an indefinite and open-ended liability, therefore, the Government will launch a Treasury-led review on how to support households and businesses after April 2023.

--- Later in debate ---

[Graham Stuart]

Grid charges need to reflect the costs involved. As the hon. Lady will be aware, we are reviewing and looking at how best to deal with the grid going forward, because the grid is fundamental to everything we want to do in this space. There is room for change, but I am not sure that I necessarily agree with her. I will wait for others more expert than me to come forward with recommendations for ministerial decision on how best to structure that. Removing price signals from the system would not be beneficial. We need price signals in there; that is right and proper.

The hon. Lady mentioned heating oil. I represent a rural constituency with many consumers on heating oil. The Government looked carefully and shared information showing that from September 2021 to September 2022, heating oil costs increased by average of about 147%. We also looked at what has happened to gas prices after the effect of the EPG, and they have increased by 130%. That is why the £100 covers that. The numbers are there—we can see what the average family spends and what the increase has been, so we can make the comparison.

Given the party that the hon. Lady represents, I understand that she will always say that we should do more. That is one thing, but what she cannot say—or she should not, and I appeal to her not to do so—is that it is not fair between those on the gas grid and those on heating oil. Some might want to do more overall, but I believe, and I think our numbers show, that we are creating something equitable between the two. It is important that people who are often in isolated rural areas and can feel hard done by are not told that they are being unfairly treated compared with others. They are not. Even if it suits a political purpose, it is important that politicians do not make such allegations unless there is a basis for them, because then they would be not serving those people well but misleading them. I know that she in particular would never want to do that.

Energy is an essential and unavoidable expense for households and businesses. The economic fallout from the pandemic and the ongoing war in Ukraine has led to unprecedented rises in energy prices. The Government will provide crucial support to families and businesses with their energy costs over the winter period.

[Munira Wilson]

rose—

[Graham Stuart]

I will give way to the hon. Lady.

[Munira Wilson]

I thank the Minister for giving way. I have finally won—he would not give way last week when I had an amendment to discuss on communal heating networks.

The Minister made a strong political point about fairness. Last week, I said that people on communal heating networks living in particular in blocks of flats in my constituency and across London and the country have faced heating price rises of more than 500%, yet the support package they were offered was not equivalent to that of other households, so there was a fundamental unfairness. Everybody is subject to the six-month review, so will the Minister guarantee from the Dispatch Box that when the Government review the package for other households, communal heat networks will get the equivalent support that they were promised all along? They were offered only six months.

Economic Update

Munira Wilson Excerpts

Monday 17th October 2022 Commons Chamber

[Jeremy Hunt]

Because we are getting towards the end of our questions, I will reply to the hon. Member’s letter. I do not believe there are any implications from what I have said today but, if I am wrong, I will let her know.

[Munira Wilson (Twickenham) (LD)]

If the Chancellor is serious about growth, he has to be serious about education, yet school governors in my constituency recently described the funding situation they face as “soul destroying”, and one said that

“we have trimmed everything we can possibly trim”.

They are considering laying off teaching assistants, delaying building repairs and axing school trips. Could the Chancellor of the Exchequer tell parents and teachers in my constituency what else he wants schools to cut to pay for the Prime Minister’s economic incompetence?

[Jeremy Hunt]

I want to do everything I can to protect our precious public services. I totally agree with the hon. Member about the link between education and economic growth, but I also think it is about social justice. I want to have fantastic schools for all our children, whatever their background. That is why I have taken the difficult decisions I have announced today.

Economy Update

Munira Wilson Excerpts

Thursday 26th May 2022 Commons Chamber

[Rishi Sunak]

My hon. Friend is thoughtful on that topic, and he is right. Previous Governments have reformed auto-enrolment to bring about that change in culture. The advantage that we are seeing now, with financial technology making it far easier for people to access and direct savings, means that we should only see that grow, and we will help to encourage it.

[Munira Wilson (Twickenham) (LD)]

I am sure the U-turn Chancellor will join me in congratulating the architect of one of his previous U-turns, Marcus Rashford, on his recent engagement. Rashford’s campaigning on free school meals reminded us all how vital it is that every child gets a decent hot meal every day at a time when families are struggling to put food on the table. While food prices have risen by almost 7% in the last year, however, funding for infant free school meals has risen by just 4p since they were introduced by the Liberal Democrats in Government in 2014. How does the Chancellor recommend that schools make up the shortfall—by cutting portions for hungry children, or by sacking teachers?

[Rishi Sunak]

We are continuing to put record amounts into schools’ budgets—more than £14 billion over the next few years. We hear a lot from Opposition parties about the tax burden, but we are actually funding public services. It is incumbent on all those who are calling for even more investment in our schools and our NHS to at least say how they would fund that.

Downing Street Garden Event

Munira Wilson Excerpts

Tuesday 11th January 2022 Commons Chamber

[Munira Wilson (Twickenham) (LD)]

Given the immense sacrifices of the British people, surely the Paymaster General must understand not just their fury, but their deep hurt. My constituent Jane Nicholson emailed this morning to say that

“my mother died without us at her side in Hampton Care Home on Saturday March 28th. The home was locked down on the Monday before. I had to conduct a mobile phone call from the car park through the window to her on that Monday...she did not live to receive our next scheduled Skype call on Saturday…We followed all guidelines to protect everyone involved and are traumatised as a result, but we acted responsibly and have continued to do so. Downing Street should have done the same.”

She also says:

“No one is above the law.”

What does the Paymaster General have to say to Jane?

[Michael Ellis]

I say to Jane that, again, I apologise unreservedly for the upset that the allegations have caused. I say to Jane that I am very sorry for her loss. We are conducting an investigation independent of Government and we will await the results of that investigation to establish what exactly has occurred as regards the gatherings that the House has been discussing.

Health and Social Care Levy Bill

Munira Wilson Excerpts

2nd reading
Tuesday 14th September 2021 Commons Chamber

[Steve Barclay]

I want to make some progress, and I have already given way once to the hon. Member for Swansea West (Geraint Davies).

Let me remind the House why this levy is necessary. As the Prime Minister and the Chancellor have said, the levy will enable the Government to provide additional funding to the NHS so that it can recover from the pandemic. Senior NHS leaders have made it clear that, without additional financial support, we will not properly be able to address the significant backlog in the national health service. However, it is going to take time to get everyone the care they need. In addition, our social care plan will create a dramatically expanded safety net for people in their later life. This means that, instead of individuals having to bear the financial risk of catastrophic care costs themselves, we as a country are deciding to share more of that risk collectively.

[Munira Wilson (Twickenham) (LD)]

Could the right hon. Gentleman explain to people up and down the country who are either in receipt of care now or will need to start care between now and October 2023 and are facing catastrophic care costs what they are meant to do? Does he accept that there will be a massive cliff edge? Lots of people will try to avoid coming forward for care in the months before October 2023, and there will then be a massive surge. How do the Government plan to deal with that?

[Steve Barclay]

In a number of ways. First, this fiscal support is not in isolation. There is £33.9 billion of additional support going into the core NHS budget over the five years of the long-term plan. That has had a significant impact. On top of that, significant covid support has gone into the NHS. One of the points that came out of the debate on the ways and means last Wednesday was the interrelated nature of the impact on the NHS and on social care. That is why it is right that we are gripping this issue, but it is alongside the wider financial support that the Treasury has offered.