Getting Britain Working Again

Debate between Pat McFadden and Steve Darling

Thursday 14th May 2026 Commons Chamber

[Pat McFadden]

If it was down to those policies, we would not have seen a rise of a quarter of a million in the NEET—not in education, employment or training—numbers in the last three years of the hon. Lady’s party’s time in office. My point is that this did not come from nowhere, and we have to understand that. If we are to have a serious response, education, health treatment, youth apprenticeships and changes to the welfare system itself all have a part to play.

On the health front, I have good news to report: waiting lists today are down by 110,000—the biggest monthly drop since 2008. Elective waiting time targets have been hit, and four-hour waiting time targets have been hit. This is how we get Britain working, whereas simply picking a number for benefit cuts, with nothing behind it, is not an answer; it is a press release. The Conservative party has shown no understanding of how people end up on benefits in the first place.

[Steve Darling (Torbay) (LD)]

I would like to raise with the Minister the fact that we are looking at around 1,000 redundancies across the NHS in Devon, which is a significant employer. That is cutting the legs off employment in communities such as mine in Torbay.

[Pat McFadden]

I refer the hon. Gentleman to the figures that I just read out. For the first time in many years, the NHS is heading in the right direction. That is good for people’s health, and it is also good for getting people back to work.

As I said, the Conservatives show no understanding of how people end up on benefits in the first place. They are like a workman who wanders around someone’s house asking, “Who installed that?”, when the answer every time is that they installed it. The Conservatives say that the welfare bill is too high, but it went up by £100 billion when they were in power. They say that they want more face-to-face appointments, but they shut them down almost entirely, and then the right hon. Member for Central Devon (Sir Mel Stride), now the shadow Chancellor, signed off a bunch of contracts that allowed the assessors to work from home. The Conservatives say that there are too many people on health benefits, but they designed the system, they designed the gateways, and they designed the differences in income that have made that happen. We did not just inherit a mess; we inherited their mess.

In fact, the shadow Chancellor personally oversaw the biggest single increase in welfare spending on record during his time as Work and Pensions Secretary. Two weeks ago, the Leader of the Opposition railed against there being 1.5 million more people on universal credit. She was outraged by the figure, as she often is, but there was only one problem: around 80% of the increase was a legacy transfer from old benefits that was decided, organised and begun by the Conservative party. It is no wonder the chair of the UK Statistics Authority wrote to the Leader of the Opposition to correct her. Her letter said of the figures quoted:

“A substantial proportion reflects the ongoing transfer of claimants from legacy benefits to Universal Credit. This process has been a longstanding policy and has been implemented at scale by the Department for Work and Pensions (DWP) since May 2022, predating the current administration.”

When it comes to the Conservatives owning their record, they might as well be giving CV advice to the leader of the Green party.

As the King’s Speech made clear yesterday, reform of the welfare system is under way and will continue. Support must always be there for those who need it, but circling the wagons around the status quo is not the right answer. Nor do I believe that the system can act as a fantasy cashpoint for every cause going; instead, I believe that our task is to recast this system to put work and opportunity at its heart.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Pat McFadden and Steve Darling

Monday 27th April 2026 Commons Chamber

[Mr Speaker]

I call the Liberal Democrat spokesperson.

[Steve Darling (Torbay) (LD)]

A recent Guardian report highlighted how young people from more deprived communities are facing discrimination through the apprenticeship system. As my hon. Friend the Member for South Devon (Caroline Voaden) alluded to, there is a penalty if someone’s family also receives child benefit. How can the Minister intervene to support the most vulnerable families?

[Pat McFadden]

It is important to remember that apprenticeships are paid and that the people undergoing them get a wage. When we are considering the overall economic impact on a family’s income, we have to take that into account. Frankly, if the hon. Member pushes me and asks me whether it is better for that income to come from benefits or the constructive work of an apprenticeship, I know which one I would pick.

Youth Unemployment

Debate between Pat McFadden and Steve Darling

Tuesday 17th March 2026 Commons Chamber

[Madam Deputy Speaker (Caroline Nokes)]

I call the Liberal Democrat spokesperson.

[Steve Darling (Torbay) (LD)]

The Secretary of State is correct to suggest that the Government inherited a crisis around youth unemployment. However, by introducing the hikes in national insurance contributions, the Government made that crisis into a catastrophe for young people, and supercharged the pressure on our youth across the United Kingdom. Rather than tackling what is now the root of the problem—the NIC hikes—these proposals are just papering over the cracks.

Young people’s childhoods are massively different from those that many of us experienced, especially hon. Members who grew up some years ago, so I pay tribute to the organisations that get young people to the right place, including Eat That Frog, Doorstep Arts, Sound Communities and South Devon college, who do incredible work. They help young people who have come through the pandemic, those who feel as though they are in a pressure cooker because of social media, which is gnawing away at their life, and who face a cost of living crisis.

The Liberal Democrats are concerned about an element of the Government’s policy: we do not understand why the Government are removing funding for apprenticeships for management. Surely managers are the people who support young people in their hour of need, as they go into work. Young people aspire to move into those positions eventually, so will the Secretary of State think again about the impact of the national insurance contributions hike on hospitality, retail and tourism industries in areas like Torbay?

I was interested to hear the Secretary of State speaking on the “Today” programme on Monday. The presenter challenged him by suggesting that the NIC hike had jacked up youth unemployment, and the Secretary of State appeared to agree with that. Finally, an article in The Times suggested that the Government are thinking about making young people second-class citizens through their changes to disability benefits; I would welcome comments from the Secretary of State about that.

[Pat McFadden]

The hon. Gentleman opposes the changes that we made to national insurance, but he neglects to mention that employer national insurance contributions are not required for employees under the age of 21, unless they are earning more than £50,000 a year. He opposes those changes while supporting extra expenditure on the NHS. As I have said to him a few times, if his party supports extra expenditure, it really has to support revenue-raising measures to fund it.

Young people will have heard the hon. Gentleman dismiss the changes that I have set out today; in fact, they will have heard him say that if he was asked to choose between management courses and young people, he would choose management courses—that is now the established position of the Liberal Democrats. I think that many people would be surprised to hear that in some years, most apprenticeship expenditure has gone on those over the age of 25 who are already in work. We have made a choice; we have chosen young people, and for good reasons. We have chosen them because of the scarring effects of youth unemployment, which I mentioned in my statement, and we now have on record that both the Conservative party and the Liberal Democrats are opposed to our prioritisation of young people.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Pat McFadden and Steve Darling

Monday 9th March 2026 Commons Chamber

[Madam Deputy Speaker (Judith Cummins)]

I call the Liberal Democrat spokesperson.

[Steve Darling (Torbay) (LD)]

Politics is all about choices. Last week, the Chancellor stood at the Dispatch Box with a choice: she could have chosen to reverse the jobs tax that is costing thousands of jobs for young people up and down the United Kingdom. Why she did she not make that choice?

[Pat McFadden]

Whatever Department I am in, I hear the same question from the Liberal Democrats. They support all the extra spending that is funded by revenue-raising measures, but they oppose all the revenue-raising measures themselves. If the hon. Gentleman wants NHS waiting lists to fall and if he calls for more spending every week, then he has to support the revenue-raising measures that make that possible.

Pensions

Debate between Pat McFadden and Steve Darling

Tuesday 11th November 2025 Commons Chamber

[Mr Speaker]

I call the Liberal Democrat spokesperson.

[Steve Darling (Torbay) (LD)]

I apologise for inadvertently using the word “you” the last time that I spoke, Mr Speaker.

Clearly, the clock is ticking for WASPI women. There are 3.6 million WASPI women across the United Kingdom, which is half a million more than the population of Wales. Sadly, a WASPI woman dies every 13 minutes.

I welcome the statement from the Secretary of State. When we have explored this subject in recent months, I have found it extremely disturbing how the ombudsman failed to engage with the previous Conservative Government because they knew that there would not be a deal to make around what the relevant approach would be on compensation for WASPI women. I plead with the Secretary of State to revisit that; after all, Government Members are on record as supporting WASPI women for many years. Will he look to meet with them and ensure that there is a fair deal? There is due to be a High Court hearing next month, and I implore him to engage positively and to get a fair deal for WASPI women.

[Pat McFadden]

The hon. Member is right; this issue has gone on for a long time. I took the view that, in the light of the evidence being cited, the right thing to do was to look again at it and at the decision in the round. I cannot speak for the previous Government’s failure to engage with the ombudsman—that is a matter for them—but I can tell the hon. Member that this Government are engaged with the ombudsman on the action plan discussed earlier, and we will continue to be engaged. As I said, I will come to a conclusion and report to the House as soon as possible.