Oral Answers to Questions

Stephen Kinnock Excerpts

Tuesday 17th June 2025 Commons Chamber

[Charlotte Cane (Ely and East Cambridgeshire) (LD)]

10. What steps his Department is taking to support community pharmacies.

[The Minister for Care (Stephen Kinnock)]

After years of underfunding, the Government agreed a record uplift of £3.1 billion for ’25-26 for the pharmacy sector. The pharmacy access scheme provides £19 million to support pharmacies in areas with fewer pharmacies, including in rural areas, but funding must always come with reform. Our hub and spoke legislation, if it is passed in the other place today, will allow pharmacies to streamline their dispensing processes, and it is a major step in the right direction in marrying reform with investment.

[Caroline Voaden]

I recently visited Modbury pharmacy, where owner Phil Dawes highlighted the challenges facing small rural pharmacies. He explained how the current funding model does not take into account the lower footfall and limited referral rates that are common in rural areas. We know that if a pharmacy in a small market town closes, it can cause extreme difficulties for people to access advice and medicines, particularly where there is little or no public transport and they have to go a long way. Will the Government consider introducing rural exceptions or adjusted funding thresholds so that we can keep community pharmacies open?

[Stephen Kinnock]

The pharmacy sector is facing huge challenges after massive cuts over the past 14 years. We are beginning to rebuild, but the hon. Lady is right that there are particular challenges for rural pharmacies. We are looking at comprehensive reform in the pharmacy sector involving the better use of technology, hub and spoke dispensing, and a range of other options that would enable better remote dispensing for rural pharmacies.

[Charlotte Cane]

I have visited pharmacies across my constituency. They are all struggling to provide a service, but are all very keen to take on the new services that the NHS is suggesting. Will the Minister commit to ensuring that rural and community pharmacies are properly staffed and equipped to deliver those community services, such as diabetes testing and weight management treatments, so that patients are not left behind just because of where they live?

[Stephen Kinnock]

The hon. Lady is right that pharmacies will play a central role in the shift from hospital to community that we will be putting at the heart of our 10-year plan. An important part of that, of course, is Pharmacy First. The take-up of Pharmacy First is not what we would like it to be, so we are looking at options to increase awareness of Pharmacy First and to free up pharmacists to be able to operate at the top of their licence. Part of that is about streamlining the dispensing side of what they do, and the hub and spoke legislation that I mentioned earlier will be really important in that context.

[Steve Yemm (Mansfield) (Lab)]

The Minister has spoken many times about the importance of shifting from hospital to the community. I have visited many local pharmacies and met the chair of Community Pharmacy Nottinghamshire, seeing at first hand the important work they do to support communities in Mansfield. Does the Minister agree that community pharmacies have a key role to play in that shift and could help to take pressure off GP surgeries?

[Stephen Kinnock]

My hon. Friend is absolutely right, and I commend him for the work he is doing in his constituency, including with pharmacies. In many ways, what we want to see is a culture change, because the interface between general practice and community pharmacy is not where it should be. We believe that pharmacists have a huge amount more to offer, but that requires a better digital interface and better information sharing—a single patient record. That sort of vehicle will be really important for delivering some of those reforms.

[Mr Speaker]

I call the shadow Minister.

[Dr Luke Evans (Hinckley and Bosworth) (Con)]

I am pleased to hear the Minister speak about Pharmacy First, which was brought forward by the previous Government and welcomed by communities, the public and the pharmacists. Although I am pleased to see the Government continue it, why have they decided to cap the number of consultations that a pharmacist may do?

[Stephen Kinnock]

Part of that is about the financial arrangements for Pharmacy First, which need to be set at a level that incentivises pharmacists. Sadly, given the way in which the scheme was set up under the previous Government, those incentives were not working, which is one reason why the take-up of Pharmacy First has not been what it needs to be. It is a question not of capping but much more one of getting the right level of financial compensation for Pharmacy First so that it works and incentivises the system.

[Dr Evans]

I am grateful to the Minister for his answer, but part of the problem is that once pharmacists hit that cap, they are no longer paid the £17 per consultation. In turn, that means that either patients will be turned away, or the pharmacist must take the hit and pay for it themselves. That disjoins the system and could create extra costs, because patients who are turned away will turn up in other areas of primary care, such as their GP surgery. How does that fit with Darzi’s push towards community-based services?

[Stephen Kinnock]

The hon. Gentleman will have seen—and I am sure will welcome—the record uplift of £3.1 billion that we are putting into the pharmacy sector after years of underfunding, incompetence and neglect from the Conservative party. A big part of this is ensuring that the shift from hospital to community takes place, and we want pharmacists to be taking pressure off primary care. We have to make Pharmacy First work effectively, which means getting the allocation of funding right. That is what we are working on in terms of reforms. Now that we have the spending review and the package, that is what we will be delivering.

[Sadik Al-Hassan (North Somerset) (Lab)]

3. If he will undertake a review of the potential impact of medicine supply chain shortages on community pharmacies.

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[Tim Farron (Westmorland and Lonsdale) (LD)]

5. What steps his Department plans to take to ensure mental health services are fully staffed in rural areas.

[The Minister for Care (Stephen Kinnock)]

I know this is an important issue for the hon. Member from the meeting we had about it last year. This Government are supporting local providers by recruiting an additional 8,500 mental health workers by the end of this Parliament. We are also expanding NHS talking therapies and piloting six new 24/7 neighbourhood mental health centres, including Hope Haven serving Whitehaven and rural Copeland.

[Tim Farron]

I thank the Minister for his reply, but this month the Care Quality Commission found high levels of staff vacancies in the already understaffed psychiatric intensive care units and acute mental health wards in South Cumbria, concluding that this is putting patient safety “at risk”. Yet, worryingly, the ICB in South Cumbria is making additional cuts of £142 million this year, with North Cumbria also making cuts. In the light of that, what is his plan to intervene to ensure that mental health staffing in Cumbria is increased to safe levels?

[Stephen Kinnock]

I thank the hon. Member for that. There is no doubt that the NHS, universities and others need to do more to get students, trainees and qualified doctors and mental health specialists in places where the NHS and patients need them. We will publish a refreshed workforce plan later this year to ensure that the NHS has the right people in the right places to care for patients when they need it.

[Chris Kane (Stirling and Strathallan) (Lab)]

The SNP has cut mental health services across Scotland, while failing to recruit the necessary workforce in rural communities such as those in Stirling and Strathallan. What assessment has the Department made of how devolved mismanagement of mental health services is affecting outcomes for patients in rural Scotland?

[Stephen Kinnock]

If we were to make an assessment of the way in which the SNP has mismanaged its responsibilities in Scotland we would be here for a very long time. I am not sure I can answer my hon. Friend’s question in the round, but I am sure that colleagues from the SNP will be welcoming the record investment that the UK Government have made in Scotland. I am certainly looking forward to the improved outcomes that they will be delivering as a result.

[Andrew Rosindell (Romford) (Con)]

6. What recent steps he has taken to support the health of the elderly.

[The Minister for Care (Stephen Kinnock)]

The spending review announced increases in NHS spending alongside more money for adult social care. By investing in DEXA scanners, we can more rapidly treat conditions such as osteoporosis, which particularly affect elderly women. Our urgent and emergency care plan promotes falls prevention technology for longer independent living and fewer hospital admissions. GPs are now incentivised to improve continuity of care, benefiting patients with long-term conditions.

[Andrew Rosindell]

I thank the Minister for his reply, but as the Secretary of State knows only too well, my borough of Havering contains one of the highest numbers of elderly people in the entire London region, yet Queen’s hospital in Romford remains chronically underfunded, overstretched and struggling to meet the growing healthcare needs of an ageing community. Will the Minister commit today to the serious investment that Queen’s hospital so desperately requires to ensure better health outcomes for older people across Romford?

[Stephen Kinnock]

I carefully note the fact that the Secretary of State for Health and Social Care, who is sitting next to me, has an interest in this issue, so I will tread very carefully with my answer. I understand that the hon. Gentleman has discussed this matter with the Minister for Secondary Care. The North East London health and care partnership integrated care board is responsible for delivery, implementation and funding decisions for local services, but the hon. Gentleman’s representations have been carefully noted today, not least by the Secretary of State for Health.

[Mr Toby Perkins (Chesterfield) (Lab)]

One of the most important things we can do to support the health of the elderly is to ensure that they can get to see their local doctor. It is great to hear the Health Secretary talk about the improved access to appointments—we are seeing that in Chesterfield—but he is also right to say that it is the first step back up the mountain. The Government inherited a real crisis in GP access and the situation is particularly difficult in more deprived areas. Will my hon. Friend tell me what more we will do to ensure that people are able to see a GP, and in particular that practices that serve the most deprived communities can get access to the extra GPs they need?

[Stephen Kinnock]

My hon. Friend will know that when we came into Government we inherited the absurd situation where the additional roles reimbursement scheme was weighed down by red tape and it was not actually possible to recruit GPs. We changed that. We invested an extra £82 million and as a result we have well over 1,000 more GPs on the frontline, but that is just the beginning. We have contract reform and £889 million of additional investment in general practice, and we are moving forward with an online booking system, which will be obligatory by 1 October. We have much more work to do—for example, around the interface with pharmacy; we are working hard on that. There is a lot more to do, but my hon. Friend is right that the first step up the mountain has been taken.

[Mr Speaker]

I call the shadow Minister.

[Dr Caroline Johnson (Sleaford and North Hykeham) (Con)]

Last health questions, I asked about delays to crucial medications in A&E and the Secretary of State said he was interested to hear more, but his office said he would delegate it to a Minister and we still have not been offered a date, so could I encourage him to look into that, please? The U-turn on winter fuel will help the elderly to stay warm and healthy this winter, but another way to help elderly people would be to protect them from the respiratory syncytial virus. Will the Government extend the vaccination to the over-80s?

[Stephen Kinnock]

I thank the hon. Lady for that question, but I did not quite catch the word she used. The virus was called? [Interruption.] Oh—RSV, yes. We are certainly looking at increasing the coverage of the RSV vaccination. I do not have the statistics to hand at the moment, but I would be happy to write to her on that point.

[Dr Johnson]

Many of those on waiting lists are elderly and have chronic conditions; rather than seeing consultants at regular intervals, which may coincide with them being relatively well, they are often kept on open appointments so that they can call when they are ill. This is efficient and responsive care. Is the Minister aware that this provision is being stopped in some areas in order to improve figures? I will quote from a letter about an elderly patient:

“I regret cannot keep him on my waiting list under the open appointment”

for treatment, and,

“I have explained the politics of everything and where we are at.”

Being re-referred to a GP each time is expensive and a waste of time. Can the Minister explain why doctors are being asked to make decisions for political reasons, instead of clinical ones?

[Stephen Kinnock]

I do not think any decisions are being made for political reasons—our medical and health staff are very much focused on doing the right thing from a clinical point of view. The hon. Lady raises an important point about continuity of care, with people constantly having to be re-referred into the system. Part of the reason for that is the utter incompetence with which the previous Government managed our primary care system, which has resulted in people being passed from pillar to post, the additional roles reimbursement scheme not actually being about having GPs on the frontline, but about having other staff, which creates more friction in the system, and poorer continuity of care. This Government are going to bring back the family doctor—that is the way to get our general practice back on its feet.

[Mark Ferguson (Gateshead Central and Whickham) (Lab)]

7. What steps his Department is taking to tackle wasteful spending in the NHS.

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[Laura Kyrke-Smith (Aylesbury) (Lab)]

14. What steps he is taking to shift care from hospitals into the community.

[The Minister for Care (Stephen Kinnock)]

We are getting the NHS back on its feet and making it fit for the future by shifting care to the community with £889 million more for GPs, 1,700 additional frontline GPs, 700,000 extra urgent dental appointments annually and a 19% uplift to the community pharmacy contract. Looking to the future, our commitment to building a neighbourhood health service is right at the heart of our 10-year plan.

[Laura Kyrke-Smith]

I am delighted by the Government’s commitment to moving healthcare closer to the community, including through the establishment of neighbourhood health centres. That is exactly what we need in Aylesbury, and I am pleased that all our key healthcare providers, including the NHS trust and several GP practices, are already working together to better integrate their care, which is an important step in the right direction. Will the Minister update me on his progress towards the model of neighbourhood-based healthcare? Can he advise what more Aylesbury’s healthcare providers can do to ensure that my residents benefit from the Government’s work in this area?

[Stephen Kinnock]

It is really good to hear about the fantastic work going on in my hon. Friend’s constituency. We are working with systems to move to a neighbourhood health model by building on existing good practice, particularly around the development of multidisciplinary teams. Aylesbury is an outstanding example of that. Ahead of the 10-year health plan’s publication, local communities can continue to make progress by utilising the neighbourhood health guidelines that were published back in January.

[Graham Stuart (Beverley and Holderness) (Con)]

Dental patients with untreated need end up in hospitals. In places like Hedon in my constituency, we have seen more and more dental practices moving away from the NHS. I have a constituent who found it took her three years to get her child their first check-up, and that dental practice has now ceased to look after NHS patients. She also cannot get the NHS treatment she deserves herself, even though she had a child in February. What in the 10-year plan will change that and ensure that everyone can get access to NHS dentistry?

[Stephen Kinnock]

The right hon. Member is right to point to children’s dental health. After we won the election in July, I looked across my portfolio and it was pretty much a car crash in every aspect, thanks to the incompetence of previous Governments. Perhaps the most shocking statistic of all is that the biggest reason five to nine-year-old children are admitted to hospital is to have their rotten teeth removed. That is a Dickensian state of affairs. We are working with the British Dental Association on contract reform. We have got to incentivise NHS dentistry, do away with the false economy set up under the last Government and get dentistry back to where it needs to be.

[Michelle Welsh (Sherwood Forest) (Lab)]

The saying goes that it takes a village to raise a baby, meaning that those in our community provide families with vital support. Does the Minister agree that we need to invest in more community midwives to ensure that families are properly supported through the whole of pregnancy and after birth?

[Stephen Kinnock]

I thank my hon. Friend for that important question. The role that midwives play, alongside other community health services such as district nurses, has been chronically underfunded and neglected over the past 14 years. She will be pleased to know that the role of community healthcare is front and centre in our 10-year plan, and I think she will be interested in and pleased with what she sees when that plan is published.

[Ellie Chowns (North Herefordshire) (Green)]

The Darzi report pointed out that 13% of hospital beds are occupied by people who are fit for discharge but who cannot get out because social care is broken. Lord Darzi said that we cannot fix the NHS until we fix social care. It is nearly six months since the Secretary of State promised cross-party talks and a commission, but the talks were cancelled and never rescheduled and the commission is delayed. Please, when will the Government stop going slow on social care? Please, when can we all get around the table to talk about fixing social care so that everyone gets the care they deserve?

[Stephen Kinnock]

I have to correct the hon. Lady: the commission is up and running, Baroness Casey has started meetings and she had a roundtable just a few weeks ago with people who have lived experience. The hon. Lady is therefore not correct on that point and I am sure that she will want to correct the record.

On the point about delayed discharge, the hon. Lady is absolutely right. We are reforming the better care fund to get much better interface between hospitals, care and local authorities. That system and those relationships can and should work much better, but there are pressing, long-term challenges. We are conscious of that and are working at pace with Baroness Casey to ensure that those reforms are delivered.

[Mr Speaker]

I call the Liberal Democrat spokesperson.

[Helen Morgan (North Shropshire) (LD)]

As we have just heard, it is widely acknowledged that the crisis in social care is a cause of dangerously high occupancy rates in hospitals that lead to the horrors of corridor care, the dreadful ambulance waiting times that we have seen and a knock-on effect on the community. When I was contacted by the family of a terminally ill man in Wem in my constituency last month, I was reminded that not only is care often provided in the wrong place, but it is often not available at all. Will the Government bring forward the timeline for the horribly delayed Casey review to report back, get it done this year and heed Liberal Democrat calls for cross-party talks so that we can agree on a long-term solution for the crisis?

[Stephen Kinnock]

May I just tackle the idea that we are not working at pace on these issues? We have had the unpaid carer’s uplift from £151 to £196, which is the biggest uplift in carer’s allowance since the 1970s when the policy was brought in; hundreds of millions of pounds’ uplift in the disabled facilities grant; and groundbreaking legislation for a fair pay agreement for care workers. Those are just some of the immediate steps that we have taken. The first phase of the Casey review will report next year and we continue to work closely with Baroness Casey to deliver the reforms that are so desperately needed after 14 years of neglect, including a number of years when the Liberal Democrats were in government.

[Charlie Dewhirst (Bridlington and The Wolds) (Con)]

T1.   If he will make a statement on his departmental responsibilities.

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[The Minister for Care (Stephen Kinnock)]

I am sorry to hear about the issues that my hon. Friend’s constituents are experiencing. I understand that he has raised the issue with the North East and North Cumbria ICB, which is investigating his concerns. I would be happy to be kept informed, and if he is not happy with the outcome of that investigation, he should certainly come back to me. This Government are committed to supporting community pharmacies after a decade of underfunding and neglect. We recently agreed a record uplift to £3.1 billion for 2025-26.

[Bob Blackman (Harrow East) (Con)]

The Secretary of State may well be aware of the greater awareness among young people of nicotine pouches. That seems to be a gap in the Tobacco and Vapes Bill currently going through Parliament. Will he commit to look at this issue to ensure that it is covered and that we bar this alongside other forms of tobacco and nicotine?

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[Stephen Kinnock]

We have provided hospices in England with a record £100 million in capital funding, as my hon. Friend will know. ICBs are responsible for commissioning palliative and end-of-life care services, including hospices, to meet the needs of their local populations. NHS England has published statutory guidance to support that. I would of course be more than happy to meet my hon. Friend to discuss that further.

[Adrian Ramsay (Waveney Valley) (Green)]

The British Dental Association recently published analysis showing that the proportion of NHS funding spent on dentistry more than halved under the Conservatives, who failed to account for inflation and demand to the cost of £1 billion. It is no wonder that we have dental deserts across much of the country. Will the Secretary of State ensure that dentistry receives its fair share of funding from the new NHS funding allocated in the spending review?

[Stephen Kinnock]

The hon. Gentleman is absolutely right to point to the neglect and incompetence of the past 14 years. We are fighting to get NHS dentistry back to where it needs to be. An important first step, of course, is the 700,000 additional urgent appointments and supervised tooth-brushing programme, but long-term contract reform is what is needed, alongside the investment that will come through the spending review.

[Ben Coleman (Chelsea and Fulham) (Lab)]

According to the Trussell Trust, the impact of hunger and hardship on people’s health is driving an extra £6.3 billion in Government healthcare spending. What part is the Department playing in reducing hunger and hardship—and thus the related healthcare cost—in my constituency and across the country?

[Stephen Kinnock]

My hon. Friend is right to raise that important point. It is truly shameful that 4.5 million children in the UK now live in poverty. We are developing an ambitious strategy that tackles root causes, and we are already taking action. Alongside cross-Government work on free school meals, breakfast clubs and funded childcare, the Department is investing £56 million in Start for Life services and supporting healthy diets for 358,000 people through Healthy Start.

[Mr Gagan Mohindra (South West Hertfordshire) (Con)]

Opticians are important medical professionals for our community. Unfortunately, when I spoke to the Hertfordshire and West Essex integrated care board, I was told that it will not allow opticians to perform vital services such as treating minor eye injuries, as doing so is deemed too expensive, despite that being the norm in the areas surrounding my constituency. Will the Minister meet me to discuss how we can ensure a fair system across the country, rather than a postcode lottery?

[Stephen Kinnock]

The hon. Gentleman is right to point to the anomalies in the eyecare system. There are concerns about the role that some aspects of the independent sector are playing, particularly in the light of the lucrative nature of cataract operations. If he writes to me, I will be happy to set out the issues, and I guarantee that he will get the response in due course.

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[James Wild (North West Norfolk) (Con)]

In March, the Minister for Care told me that no decision could be taken on a new dental school at the University of East Anglia until the spending review settlement was known. Now that we know it, will he instruct the Office for Students to allocate new training places at the UEA from 2026?

[Stephen Kinnock]

The spending review has just been published. The key now is to secure the allocations within the overall financial envelope. That will take a matter of weeks, and I will be happy to report back to the hon. Member once we have that clarity.

[Debbie Abrahams (Oldham East and Saddleworth) (Lab)]

Between 2001 and 2011, the 15% health inequalities weighting in NHS allocations made a positive, measurable difference to the health of deprived people. Unfortunately, it was cut to 10% in 2015. With the spending review’s increase in funding to the NHS, when will the health inequalities weighting reach 15%?

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[Claire Hazelgrove (Filton and Bradley Stoke) (Lab)]

The challenge of finding and keeping an NHS dentist is raised with me time and again across the Filton and Bradley Stoke constituency, and I welcome the early action that this Labour Government have taken to introduce more than 19,000 urgent care appointments across our integrated care board area. What will be the next steps to help ensure that NHS dentistry is opened up again to everybody?

[Stephen Kinnock]

I thank my hon. Friend for that question and her relentless campaigning on this issue. She is right that the 700,000 urgent dental appointments are a first step, and we are looking to embed that so that it goes forward every year of this Parliament. The broader issue is around contract reform. There is no perfect contract system—the current one clearly is not working—and we are looking at options around sessional payments, capitation, and getting a contract that works and brings dentists back into the NHS.

[Blake Stephenson (Mid Bedfordshire) (Con)]

The Secretary of State will know that my local ICB in Bedfordshire, Luton and Milton Keynes is set to merge with Hertfordshire, Cambridgeshire and Peterborough. The new ICB will cover a population of about 3 million people. Given the difficulties we have had securing a GP surgery in Wixams, will the Secretary of State set out how supersizing that quango will help rural mid-Beds to get the local healthcare it needs?