Oral Answers to Questions

(Limited Text - Ministerial Extracts only)

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Wednesday 7th November 2012

(11 years, 5 months ago)

Commons Chamber
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Craig Whittaker Portrait Craig Whittaker (Calder Valley) (Con)
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1. What progress he has made in implementing the civil service reform plan.

Lord Maude of Horsham Portrait The Minister for the Cabinet Office and Paymaster General (Mr Francis Maude)
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In June, we published a plan with specific actions to tackle long-standing weaknesses in the civil service, to build on strengths and to address frustrations expressed by civil servants themselves. If effectively implemented, the actions will lead to real change, which is urgently needed. The pace of change now needs to increase. Yesterday, we published the digital strategy, which sets outs how we can save money while improving the delivery of public services. That is an example of civil servants enthusiastically embracing and driving radical reform.

Craig Whittaker Portrait Craig Whittaker
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Over the past decade, public sector productivity remained static while private sector productivity improved by a third. What steps is my right hon. Friend taking to ensure that the civil service learns best practice from business?

Lord Maude of Horsham Portrait Mr Maude
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After the coalition Government formed, we put in place the efficiency and reform group, which is driving a much more business-like approach to those areas of activity that run across government: the procurement of common goods and services; property; the management and oversight of major projects; and information and communications technology infrastructure, which was wholly unco-ordinated. All this is driving savings in the cost of government, but we need to do much more. The key to that is developing much more interchange between the private sector and the civil service, which the head of the civil service is committed to driving forward energetically.

Kelvin Hopkins Portrait Kelvin Hopkins (Luton North) (Lab)
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Will the Minister confirm that “reform” is not just code for privatisation, outsourcing and politicising the senior civil service? Will the civil service be retained as a neutral service to government, with proper ministerial responsibility?

Lord Maude of Horsham Portrait Mr Maude
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There is no plan to change the basic rules of accountability, in the sense that there is a permanent, politically impartial civil service. However, there is a view, which I believe is shared right across the House, particularly by those who were Ministers in the previous Government, that responsiveness and effectiveness need to increase. That view is shared by the leadership of the civil service. One thing we are trying to do, through the civil service reform plan, is to respond to some of the frustrations expressed by civil servants themselves. They get very frustrated with the bureaucracy and the hierarchical nature of the service, as it is currently run.

Mel Stride Portrait Mel Stride (Central Devon) (Con)
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13. I congratulate my right hon. Friend on his bold and imaginative reforms of the civil service, particularly the mutualisation of the civil service pension scheme. May I press him to look at other areas of the civil service where that successful approach may be adopted?

Lord Maude of Horsham Portrait Mr Maude
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The movement towards mutualisation of public services is very powerful and is being looked at by other Governments, as well as our own. It is powerful because it enables entrepreneurial leaders in the public sector, of whom there are many, to take control of the services, innovate, do things differently and drive out cost. It is a powerful means of driving efficiency, for the taxpayer and for the user.

Jon Trickett Portrait Jon Trickett (Hemsworth) (Lab)
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Today’s Institute for Government report reveals what it calls “fragile leadership” of the civil service reform programme. It is clear that the chaotic and expensive redundancy programme and the culture of blaming the service for blunders while Ministers get away scot-free is damaging morale. Even the right hon. Gentleman’s friends in the TaxPayers Alliance acknowledge that he is engaging in the costly practice of laying off staff while paying to recruit replacements. For all his bluster about savings, the Cabinet Office now has more staff than it had last year. When will he get a grip?

Lord Maude of Horsham Portrait Mr Maude
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Coming from the Parliamentary Private Secretary to the previous Prime Minister, who presided over a massive explosion in the size of the state and the growth of inefficiency—who presided over the decade in which public sector productivity was flat while private sector productivity grew by 30%—that is pretty rich. The hon. Gentleman refers to the expensive voluntary redundancy programme that has taken place. Under the position that his Government left—until we reformed the redundancy scheme—it would have been impossible to pursue that at all. The civil service today is considerably smaller. There are plans in Departments to reduce the size further, but productivity is already improving considerably. I just wish it had started under the previous Government.

David Hanson Portrait Mr David Hanson (Delyn) (Lab)
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2. Whether his Department has issued guidance to other Departments on the likely implementation date of a statutory register of lobbyists.

Oliver Letwin Portrait The Minister for Government Policy (Mr Oliver Letwin)
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The plans for developing a response to the Select Committee’s report and other evidence are still under way, and we have not issued guidance to Departments yet on a timetable. However, I rather think that we will do it quicker than the 13 years in which the previous Administration failed to introduce any systematic approach to lobbying.

David Hanson Portrait Mr Hanson
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Can the right hon. Gentleman confirm that the special adviser to the Secretary of State for Work and Pensions is also the paid chairman of an outside lobbying organisation? Does that not show the need for urgent guidance and, preferably, the statutory register of lobbyists that the Government have promised but so far failed to deliver?

Oliver Letwin Portrait Mr Letwin
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I think I can say that I disagree with every part of the right hon. Gentleman’s question. He was a distinguished Minister in the previous Government and will be perfectly aware of these things. The special adviser in question made a full declaration of what she was doing to the permanent secretary and the Cabinet Office. It is also on the parliamentary register, because she is a special adviser. It is all perfectly appropriate and the Centre for Social Justice is not a lobbying organisation but a think tank with a long and passionate record of advocating social justice.

Julian Brazier Portrait Mr Julian Brazier (Canterbury) (Con)
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Does my right hon. Friend agree that we need to look at internal as well as external lobbyists? May I encourage him in his work to identify the very large numbers of people who are working during paid public sector working hours for trade unions affiliated to the Labour party?

Oliver Letwin Portrait Mr Letwin
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My hon. Friend makes a very good point. The Minister for the Cabinet Office and Paymaster General is already taking steps to limit the extent of the public payroll and the taxpayer supporting people engaged in trade union activity inside the civil service. My hon. Friend also raises a wider point. Part of the evidence from the Select Committee and others in response to our proposals on the register for lobbyists showed concern that they did not cover the question of those who lobbied on behalf of firms by which they were employed. We have taken major steps to make that more transparent by ensuring that Ministers reveal who comes to lobby them about any subject, regardless of whether they are internal or external. We are considering whether we can go further in that transparency.

John Cryer Portrait John Cryer (Leyton and Wanstead) (Lab)
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The Prime Minister promised us a Bill two and half years ago and nothing has appeared. Is that because of incompetence or powerful vested interests on the Government Benches?

Oliver Letwin Portrait Mr Letwin
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The short answer is neither. The reason the hon. Gentleman’s party failed to move on this for 13 years is that it is a genuinely complicated issue. We issued proposals not too long ago and we believe in evidence-based policy making rather than policy-based evidence making. We are therefore paying serious attention to the Select Committee of this House and to others and I would have expected the hon. Gentleman to congratulate us on doing so as Opposition Members frequently ask us to spend more time considering what has been proposed by Select Committees and others in response to our proposals.

Charlie Elphicke Portrait Charlie Elphicke (Dover) (Con)
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May I press the Minister further? There is a big difference between lobbying and the important policy formation work done by think tanks, especially the excellent Centre for Social Justice. There is also a big difference between a special adviser who is a professional and one who is vocational and passionate, like Philippa Stroud.

Oliver Letwin Portrait Mr Letwin
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My hon. Friend is absolutely right that there is a big difference. We must consider every measure we can to ensure that there is full transparency. In this case, there was transparency—the information can be seen on the register of the House and was fully reported to the permanent secretary and the Cabinet Office.

Robert Halfon Portrait Robert Halfon (Harlow) (Con)
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3. What recent estimate he has made of the number of apprentices working in the supply chains of central Government departments and their agencies.

Oliver Letwin Portrait The Minister for Government Policy (Mr Oliver Letwin)
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I am conscious of the enormous work that my hon. Friend has done to promote apprenticeships. I believe that he recently launched the apprentice card, which is a huge innovation, and I think that he is the first ever Member of Parliament to have a parliamentary apprentice. The whole House owes him gratitude for that. We do not hold figures for the total number of apprenticeships across the supply chain of Government, which is obviously vast, but we have taken action to boost apprenticeships across British business as a whole, with 500,000 additional apprentices this year.

Robert Halfon Portrait Robert Halfon
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Since 2011, the Department for Work and Pensions has gently encouraged, through procurement, its private suppliers to hire apprentices. As a result, 2,000 apprentices have been hired. Is there anything the Cabinet Office can do to roll that out across Whitehall?

Oliver Letwin Portrait Mr Letwin
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My hon. Friend is right that the DWP has managed to get almost 2,000 apprentices into its supply chain through its procurement practices. The Cabinet Office fully supports such schemes where they are appropriate and consistent with providing value for money. We encourage Departments to take forward proposals that are consistent with providing value for money.

Iain McKenzie Portrait Mr Iain McKenzie (Inverclyde) (Lab)
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Does the Minister share the views of the chairman of his party, who stated that prioritising apprenticeships and linking them to public sector contracts is “ridiculous” and “counter-productive”?

Oliver Letwin Portrait Mr Letwin
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We are totally in favour of apprenticeships and of promoting them. My right hon. Friend the Member for Welwyn Hatfield (Grant Shapps) was saying —my right hon. Friend the Minister for the Cabinet Office and Paymaster General has repeated this—that we need to ensure that we get value for taxpayers’ money and do not create a set of rules that militate against that. Within that, we encourage and support those Departments that promote apprenticeships that are consistent with the provision of value for money. That is why in my response to my hon. Friend the Member for Harlow (Robert Halfon) I pointed out that we support and encourage schemes such as that promoted by the DWP.

Baroness Ritchie of Downpatrick Portrait Ms Margaret Ritchie (South Down) (SDLP)
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4. What recent progress he has made on delivering funding for big society projects.

Nick Hurd Portrait The Parliamentary Secretary, Cabinet Office (Mr Nick Hurd)
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I am delighted to say that of the £470 million Office for Civil Society budget, we have managed to find some funding to support a pilot in Northern Ireland of the hugely popular National Citizen Service programme, which I hope the hon. Lady supports. As I have said on many occasions, it is very important to us that the Big Society Capital opportunity is UK-wide, and it is categorically open for business in respect of Northern Ireland.

Baroness Ritchie of Downpatrick Portrait Ms Ritchie
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I thank the Minister for his answer, but could he point to any exemplar big society projects that could provide good learning for other regions, apart from the one to which he referred, for which I am grateful?

Nick Hurd Portrait Mr Hurd
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There is plenty of good practice to point to. However, this area is effectively a devolved matter. In the case of the National Citizen Service, we came to the Administration with an offer, saying that we think this is a valuable experience for young people and we would like to make it available to young people in Northern Ireland. To their credit, the Administration said yes.

Richard Fuller Portrait Richard Fuller (Bedford) (Con)
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Can my hon. Friend update the House about progress on the social impact finance project in Peterborough and assure the House that in developing social impact financing, he will look carefully at how it can be applied to other public sector projects?

Nick Hurd Portrait Mr Hurd
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I am grateful to my hon. Friend for his question. He takes a strong interest in the matter. The Government are ambitious to accelerate the development of social impact bonds, which create the space for commissioners to innovate and try new interventions in that space. We have already announced that we will shortly publish the details of an outcomes fund designed to do exactly that.

Gareth Thomas Portrait Mr Gareth Thomas (Harrow West) (Lab/Co-op)
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Four out of five small charities surveyed by the National Association for Voluntary and Community Action expect their finances to worsen in the next year as Government cuts bite even harder. Is not the truth that the Minister has so little ability to deliver extra funding for small charities’ big society projects that if he were to hop on a plane to Australia to join his hon. Friend the Member for Mid Bedfordshire (Nadine Dorries) in the jungle, nobody in the charity world would notice?

Nick Hurd Portrait Mr Hurd
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Any Government cuts are the direct consequence of the fiscal incontinence of the Government that the hon. Gentleman adorned briefly as a Minister. We all know from our constituencies that this is an extremely tough time for charities and I could point to a long roll-call of initiatives taken by this Government, including new tax incentives, the gift aid small donations scheme, the implementation of the world’s first social investment bank and £50 million of matched funding for local charitable giving. This Government have a proud record of supporting the charity sector.

Margot James Portrait Margot James (Stourbridge) (Con)
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5. What plans he has for the National Citizen Service.

Nick Hurd Portrait The Parliamentary Secretary, Cabinet Office (Mr Nick Hurd)
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As I think my hon. Friend knows, the NCS is an enormously valuable experience for young people and we are keen to build on the success of the first two years’ pilots to make it available to every 16-year-old in the country.

Margot James Portrait Margot James
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I visited the National Citizen Service in Dudley and I congratulate the Challenge network and the 150 students who took part last summer. Can my hon. Friend advise whether he has any plans to introduce private sponsorship so that we can widen participation in this excellent scheme?

Nick Hurd Portrait Mr Hurd
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I thank my hon. Friend for taking the time to visit her local project, and I thank all colleagues across the House who took the time to do so over the summer. I hope they see what I see and what independent research tells us, which is that the NCS experience is helping young people become more work-ready and employable. That is a direct benefit to business, which to date has contributed about £3 million to the costs of the programme. As we look to expand it and make it more available, I expect that number to rise.

Baroness Chapman of Darlington Portrait Jenny Chapman (Darlington) (Lab)
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Youth services in Darlington have been decimated to pay for this pet project. If, when we have an evaluation, it turns out not to have been a roaring success, will the Minister put the money back?

Nick Hurd Portrait Mr Hurd
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The money has not come from youth services. That is a completely separate budget. The National Citizen Service programme is proving hugely valuable to young people. We have a 95% customer satisfaction rating and, to answer the hon. Lady’s question, independent research is already telling us that the social benefit to cost ratio is 2:1, and we look to build on that.

Phillip Lee Portrait Dr Phillip Lee (Bracknell) (Con)
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6. What steps he plans to take to enable small and medium-sized enterprises to secure more Government contracts.

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Ian Murray Portrait Ian Murray (Edinburgh South) (Lab)
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9. What progress he has made on making it easier for small and medium-sized enterprises to win public procurement contracts.

Chloe Smith Portrait The Parliamentary Secretary, Cabinet Office (Miss Chloe Smith)
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Since the general election we have introduced radical measures to make it easier for SMEs to win Government business. These will support growth and innovation. Gone are barriers like unnecessary pre-qualification questionnaires. New opportunities are published on our contracts finder website and SMEs can challenge obstruction through the mystery shopper service.

Phillip Lee Portrait Dr Lee
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Over the past two years, I have been contacted by more than one construction company in my constituency that have encountered difficulties in securing small business contracts from both local and national Government. Will my hon. Friend continue to press Departments to remove the burdensome procedures and bureaucracy that make it harder for SMEs, such as those in my constituency, to compete for and win both local and national Government contracts?

Chloe Smith Portrait Miss Smith
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We certainly will. We have appointed an SME champion in every central Government Department, all Departments have presented their plans for increasing their percentage spend with SMEs, something Labour never bothered to measure, and our mystery shopper service will continue to provide an outlet for challenging poor service and conditions.

Julian Smith Portrait Julian Smith
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Many small firms are still concerned that public procurement is based solely on price. How can we ensure that quality and sustainability are also taken into account?

Chloe Smith Portrait Miss Smith
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The public procurement policy for central Government is to award contracts on the basis of value for money, which covers a combination of cost and quality, as my hon. Friend would expect. Our mystery shopper service provides an outlet for challenging poor selection requirements, such as those he might have experienced in his constituency. I say once again that value for money is something that the Government like.

Ian Murray Portrait Ian Murray
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The Minister claims that direct spend with SMEs has increased since the general election, but will she confirm that the recorded increase at the Ministry of Justice, the Department she claims has had the highest increase, is in fact due to officials starting to include small law firms providing legal aid services? Should those not be stripped from the figures?

Chloe Smith Portrait Miss Smith
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I can confirm that the spend on procurement with SMEs has gone up. I say again that it was this Government who bothered to count that spend, unlike those now on the Opposition Benches, and I think that that is something we should be proud of.

Gregory Campbell Portrait Mr Gregory Campbell (East Londonderry) (DUP)
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The Government have repeatedly indicated that they want to reduce the bureaucracy and red tape that can prevent SMEs getting contracts. Will the Minister outline what further steps will be taken over the next two and a half years to complete that task?

Chloe Smith Portrait Miss Smith
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I point to the fact that we are publishing for the first time a pipeline of projects and procurements that are available from the Government. There is £70 billion worth of opportunities available as of this year. That builds industry confidence to invest. I would also point to the way we are disaggregating ICT contracts, for example, which will allow them to be more flexible and cheaper for smaller firms to bid for. I note in passing that the Public Accounts Committee has said that the previous Government’s management of IT contracts was a recipe for a rip-off.

Michael Dugher Portrait Michael Dugher (Barnsley East) (Lab)
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In June this year the Minister for the Cabinet Office launched the Government procurement Solutions Exchange website, saying that it was

“an easy, informal way for smaller firms to find out about emerging opportunities”.

It all sounded very promising. Is he aware that for the past two months SMEs, when logging on to the website, have been greeted by the words, “Nothing available at this time”? You could not make it up. Why is that? Does not the phrase “Nothing available at this time” neatly sum up the Government’s complete lack of support for SMEs?

Chloe Smith Portrait Miss Smith
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I will tell you what is not available at this time, Mr Speaker: an Opposition policy to deal with any of that.

Andrew Turner Portrait Mr Andrew Turner (Isle of Wight) (Con)
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Will the Government tell me how many small and micro-businesses are engaged nationally or regionally?

Chloe Smith Portrait Miss Smith
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I do not have the number to hand, but I am happy to write to my hon. Friend to help him.

Dan Jarvis Portrait Dan Jarvis (Barnsley Central) (Lab)
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7. What recent assessment he has made of steps to improve transparency throughout Government.

Lord Maude of Horsham Portrait The Minister for the Cabinet Office and Paymaster General (Mr Francis Maude)
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The Government have a world-leading transparency programme, as is widely acknowledged. Open data sharpen accountability, inform choice over public services and offer raw material for a fast-growing industry of developers and entrepreneurs. As lead co-chair of the open government partnership, we are working with Governments the world over to embed transparency through stretching action plans.

Dan Jarvis Portrait Dan Jarvis
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Does the Minister share my concern about the Government’s failure to extend freedom of information to private companies that deliver public services? Does that not make a mockery of the Government’s transparency agenda? If he does share my concern, what will his Department do about it?

Lord Maude of Horsham Portrait Mr Maude
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First, FOI is the responsibility of the Ministry of Justice, not my Department. Secondly, the Justice Committee recently undertook a wide-ranging post-legislative study of the Freedom of Information Act 2000—the Government will respond before too long—and, as I recollect, recommended no such change.

Craig Whittaker Portrait Craig Whittaker (Calder Valley) (Con)
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T1. If he will make a statement on his departmental responsibilities.

Lord Maude of Horsham Portrait The Minister for the Cabinet Office and Paymaster General (Mr Francis Maude)
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My responsibilities as Minister for the Cabinet Office are for the public sector efficiency and reform group, civil service issues, industrial relations in the public sector, Government transparency, civil contingency, civil society and cyber-security.

Craig Whittaker Portrait Craig Whittaker
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My local authority currently gives teaching unions £8,000 a year out of the schools budget, as well as giving Unison £27,000 in cash and paying for its offices. In the light of the differences between the private and public sectors in this area, may I ask my right hon. Friend what is being done to bring this into line across the civil service?

Lord Maude of Horsham Portrait Mr Maude
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Anyone who has responsibility for spending public money needs to ensure that it is spent on the front-line services on which citizens depend. In the civil service, we discovered that 248 civil servants were doing nothing but trade union work at the taxpayers’ expense. Following our consultation, we have introduced tough new controls that will more than halve the cost of trade union activity to the taxpayer.

John Bercow Portrait Mr Speaker
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Order. There are far too many noisy private conversations taking place in the Chamber. Let us have a bit of order so that Members may actually be heard—it is something to do with manners.

Andy Slaughter Portrait Mr Andy Slaughter (Hammersmith) (Lab)
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T2. As the Minister seems to love contracting out work to the cosy cartel of G4S, A4e, Serco and Capita, does he not think that transparency should extend to those companies as much as it does to the public sector?

Lord Maude of Horsham Portrait Mr Maude
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We can, of course, build appropriate levels of transparency into contracts when services are contracted out. That process was taken a lot further by the previous Government, so it is not a feature of the coalition Government. I will pass on the hon. Gentleman’s concern to my right and hon. Friends in the Ministry of Justice.

Simon Kirby Portrait Simon Kirby (Brighton, Kemptown) (Con)
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T3. Will the Minister update the House on the launch of gov.uk and the savings he expects to make?

Lord Maude of Horsham Portrait Mr Maude
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We published our digital strategy yesterday and launched gov.uk recently. We will make significant savings—gov.uk will save £36 million and, ultimately, when all the Departments migrate over to it, between £50 million and £70 million a year, and that is just to provide a much better service for citizens. As more and more of the transactions that people undertake with Government are moved online, we expect to save nearly £2 billion a year, and that is for a better service for the consumer.

Simon Danczuk Portrait Simon Danczuk (Rochdale) (Lab)
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T5. The National Audit Office report into Whitehall’s budget management showed that just 0.2% of Government spending is in the form of departmental joint submissions. There are opportunities for greater joint working and to save more money; what are Ministers doing to improve this?

Lord Maude of Horsham Portrait Mr Maude
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I think that every Minister in every Government I have ever known or observed would say that there is scope for much better joined-up activity between Departments. As a result of the civil service reform plan that we are now pushing through, with the strong support of the leadership of the civil service, we should have much greater interchange between Departments to break down the silos that partly cause the problem to which the hon. Gentleman rightly refers.

Karl McCartney Portrait Karl MᶜCartney (Lincoln) (Con)
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T4. Will my right hon. Friend update the House on the progress of the efficiency and reform group in driving savings across Government Departments?

Chloe Smith Portrait The Parliamentary Secretary, Cabinet Office (Miss Chloe Smith)
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After the last general election, we set up that group to deal with the monstrous waste that the Labour Government presided over. It is a tribute to the hard work of civil servants here and across Whitehall that we saved taxpayers £3.75 billion in the first year and £5.5 billion last year. We are accelerating that work and targeting £8 billion this year.

Kate Green Portrait Kate Green (Stretford and Urmston) (Lab)
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The civil service has traditionally been a good employer of women, black and minority ethnic staff and disabled staff. What equality measures are the Government taking to ensure that a 23% cut in staff by 2015 will have no adverse impact?

Lord Maude of Horsham Portrait Mr Maude
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I am grateful for the hon. Lady’s confirmation that the civil service is a good and diverse employer. I expect that to continue.

James Gray Portrait Mr James Gray (North Wiltshire) (Con)
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T6. Government spending on advertising and consultants of all kinds is nearly always wasteful, profligate and—[Interruption.]

James Gray Portrait Mr Gray
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Thank you, Mr Speaker.

Government spending on advertising and consultants is nearly always wasteful, extravagant and profligate. What was the annual spend of the previous Government, how much has my right hon. Friend managed to cut it by, and what further plans does he have to squeeze this kind of waste out of Government spending?

Lord Maude of Horsham Portrait Mr Maude
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We saved nearly £400 million a year by restricting the spend on advertising and marketing, which was wholly incontinent under the previous Government. There are sometimes good cases for using consultants, but we have cut the spend on them by nearly 70%. These disciplines will continue for the future.

Chris Bryant Portrait Chris Bryant (Rhondda) (Lab)
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The Minister boasts about the Government’s transparency. The Cabinet Office still holds a large cache of e-mails from Andy Coulson to Rebekah Brooks. When will the Minister publish them?

Lord Maude of Horsham Portrait Mr Maude
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I think that the hon. Gentleman needs to change the record.

The Prime Minister was asked—
Iain Wright Portrait Mr Iain Wright (Hartlepool) (Lab)
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Q1. If he will list his official engagements for Wednesday 7 November.

Nick Clegg Portrait The Deputy Prime Minister (Mr Nick Clegg)
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I have been asked to reply. As the House will know, my right hon. Friend the Prime Minister is on an official overseas visit to the middle east.

The whole House will wish to join me in paying tribute to the two British soldiers who were killed in Afghanistan last week: Lieutenant Edward Drummond-Baxter and Lance Corporal Siddhanta Kunwar of 1st Battalion the Royal Gurkha Rifles. Our heartfelt condolences are of course with the families and friends of these brave servicemen. In a particularly poignant week for us all, with Remembrance day on Sunday, we are once again reminded of the remarkable job that our armed forces do to ensure our safety and security.

Furthermore, the House will wish to join me in paying tribute to David Black, the Northern Ireland Prison Service officer who was shot and killed last Thursday. As my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland said in the House on Friday, we utterly condemn this cowardly crime. Our thoughts are with David’s wife and children at this distressing time.

I am sure that the House will also want to join me in congratulating President Obama on his election victory last night. [Hon. Members: “Hooray!”] I suspect that that is the only point at which I will be cheered today by Labour Members. We look forward to continuing the Government’s work with him in building a more prosperous, more free and more stable world.

This morning I had meetings with ministerial colleagues and others. In addition to my duties in this House I shall have further such meetings later today.

Iain Wright Portrait Mr Wright
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May I fully associate myself with the sincere tribute paid to the two fallen servicemen and to David Black? It is right that this House pays tribute to those who have fallen in the service of our country, never more so than in the week of Remembrance Sunday.

May I also say that President Obama will be relieved to get the support of the Deputy Prime Minister?

The former Metropolitan Police Commissioner, Lord Stevens, has said that police morale is at national crisis levels. Is he right, and why is that the case?

Nick Clegg Portrait The Deputy Prime Minister
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As the hon. Gentleman will know, the latest figures show that overall crime is down by 6%, that victim satisfaction with the police has gone up, that response time to emergency calls has been maintained or improved, and that crime has fallen precipitously in his own constituency. So when will he congratulate the police, rather than denigrate them, on doing a difficult job in dealing with savings, as everybody has to, while keeping the public safe?

David Rutley Portrait David Rutley (Macclesfield) (Con)
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Does my right hon. Friend agree with the Chancellor and the German Finance Minister’s call for the OECD to accelerate plans to tackle the challenge of corporate tax avoidance by multinational companies?

Nick Clegg Portrait The Deputy Prime Minister
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Absolutely. I am sure that everybody will warmly welcome the work that the Chancellor is now doing with the Finance Ministry in Berlin to crack down on the industrial-scale tax avoidance by large corporate entities in this country and elsewhere that was allowed go on unchecked under 13 years of the Labour Government.

Harriet Harman Portrait Ms Harriet Harman (Camberwell and Peckham) (Lab)
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May I join the Deputy Prime Minister in expressing our deepest condolences on the death of Lieutenant Edward Drummond-Baxter and Lance Corporal Siddhanta Kunwar, of 1st Battalion the Royal Gurkha Rifles? Our thoughts are with their families and friends. At Remembrance day services this Sunday we will remember not just those who died in the two world wars, but all our servicemen and women who have lost their lives. We also send our deepest sympathy to the family of David Black of the Northern Ireland Prison Service, who was killed last Thursday.

I also join the Deputy Prime Minister in offering our warmest congratulations to the President of the United States, Barack Obama. This morning, he spoke of his determination to create more jobs, health care for all, and to tackle the scourge of inequality. We wish him well.

Lord Justice Leveson will be publishing his report and recommendations soon. The Deputy Prime Minister said that provided those proposals are “proportionate and workable”, the Government should implement them, and the Opposition agree. When Leveson’s report is published, will the Government convene cross-party talks to take it forward? We need a strong, free press, and a proper system to protect people from being, as the Prime Minister said, “thrown to the wolves”.

Nick Clegg Portrait The Deputy Prime Minister
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I agree with much of what the right hon. and learned Lady says about Leveson. We have not yet seen his proposals and we must wait to see what he comes up with, but if those proposals are workable and proportionate, we should, of course, seek to support them. That is the whole point of the exercise. I also agree that we should work on a cross-party basis where we can. This is a major issue that escapes normal tribal point scoring in party politics, and there are two principles, both of which the right hon. and learned Lady alludes to. First, we must do everything we can to ensure that we maintain a free, raucous and independent press. That is what makes our democracy and the country what it is. Secondly, we must ensure that the vulnerable are protected from abuse by the powerful, which happened on an unacceptable scale on too many occasions. We need to be able to look the parents of Milly Dowler in the eye, and say that, in future, there will be permanently independent forms of recourse, sanction and accountability when things go wrong.

Harriet Harman Portrait Ms Harman
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I thank the Deputy Prime Minister for that answer. We must have a press that report the truth without fear or favour. However, after all the evidence that came out during the inquiry, particularly, as he says, from the Dowlers and the McCanns, we simply cannot continue with the status quo, or a press complaints system in which a publication can simply walk away, or a system that is run by the press. Does the Deputy Prime Minister agree that a version of “business as usual” will simply not do? It would be a dereliction of our duty to allow the Leveson report to be kicked into the long grass.

Nick Clegg Portrait The Deputy Prime Minister
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I think everybody accepts, whatever their individual views about this matter, that “business as usual” is simply not acceptable. The status quo has failed, and it has failed over and over again. The model of self-regulation that we have seen over the past few years has not worked when things have gone awry. I certainly agree with that premise, and we in Government created the Leveson inquiry to seek out recommendations for change. That is the whole point of the Leveson inquiry.

Harriet Harman Portrait Ms Harman
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I look forward to all hon. Members having the opportunity to work together in the public interest to get this right.

This week, the Deputy Prime Minister sent an e-mail to his party members. In it, he described the task of finding child care as a “real nightmare”. Is it not clear that cutting the child care element of tax credits has made that nightmare worse for parents?

Nick Clegg Portrait The Deputy Prime Minister
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What has helped many people who have struggled to make ends meet and pay for child care is the fact that this Government are providing 15 hours of free, pre-school support and child care to every three and four-year-old in the country. No Government have done that before, and as of next April, it is this Government who will be providing 15 hours of pre-school support and child care to some of the poorest two-year-olds in the country. No other Government have done that before. It is this Government who are taking 2 million people on low pay out of paying any income tax altogether, and that is a record I am proud of.

Harriet Harman Portrait Ms Harman
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The Deputy Prime Minister’s answer has shown that he is completely out of touch. The reality is that many part-time working parents are having to give up their jobs because of the cuts in tax credit, and having instead to be on benefits. I asked him about the child care element of the tax credit, and he has not answered. Why will he not admit that the cut he voted for has cost families £500, and 44,000 families are losing out? If that was not bad enough, the Government are cutting £1 billion from Sure Start. In his e-mail, he said he would reveal—[Interruption.]

--- Later in debate ---
Harriet Harman Portrait Ms Harman
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Thank you, Mr Speaker.

In the Deputy Prime Minister’s e-mail, he said he would reveal what really goes on behind those Whitehall doors. Perhaps in next week’s instalment, he will therefore tell the truth: under his Government, families are worse off, aren’t they?

Nick Clegg Portrait The Deputy Prime Minister
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As of next April, because of one of the most radical tax changes introduced by any Government in living memory, 24 million basic rate taxpayers will be £550 better off. That is a radical change I am very proud of. I am proud of the fact that two, three and four-year-olds will benefit from our changes. As the right hon. and learned Lady may have noticed, the much-quoted Resolution Trust report recently showed that tax credits are not the best answers for many families. Yes, I accept that we need to do more to make child care affordable, so that more women can get back into work at an earlier stage. That is what this Government are setting about doing while we are cleaning up the mess she left behind.

Harriet Harman Portrait Ms Harman
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The Deputy Prime Minister comes to the Dispatch Box and says one thing, but he does something completely different—he is at it again on the police. Two years ago, he made a solemn election pledge that the Lib Dems would provide 3,000 more police officers, but there are not more—there are 6,800 fewer. It is tuition fees all over again. Why should anyone trust the Lib Dems on policing?

Nick Clegg Portrait The Deputy Prime Minister
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At least people can trust the Conservatives and Lib Dems on the economy. Let me explain. The shadow Chancellor is not here—[Interruption.]

John Bercow Portrait Mr Speaker
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Order. The right hon. Gentleman is in danger of being heckled rather noisily and stupidly by both sides. His answer will be heard, however long it takes, so the juvenile delinquency should stop now.

Nick Clegg Portrait The Deputy Prime Minister
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I am used to getting it from both sides.

The shadow Chancellor is not in the Chamber, but just to underline my point, last year, in a television interview, he denied that there was a structural deficit while Labour was in power. Last month, in another television interview, he denied the denial. Now that he is briefing against himself in television interviews, how an earth will anyone ever have any faith that his lot can sort out the economy?

Harriet Harman Portrait Ms Harman
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People are finding that they cannot trust this Government on the economy. Because of the Government the Deputy Prime Minister supports, we have lost two years of economic growth, and borrowing is going up. I do not know why Government Members are all so cheerful about the cuts in police numbers. They might not be bothered, but their constituents certainly are. It is always the same with the Lib Dems. People cannot trust them on tuition fees or child care, and when it comes to voting next week, people will remember that they certainly cannot trust them on the police.

Nick Clegg Portrait The Deputy Prime Minister
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What about her promise of no boom and bust? What happened to that one? This coalition has now been in power for two and a half years. In those two and a half years, we have given 24 million basic rate taxpayers an income tax cut; we have taken 2 million on low pay out of paying any income tax; we have cut the deficit by a quarter; and we have reformed welfare. What have she and her colleagues done? What have they done? They have gone on a few marches; they have denied any responsibility for the mess we are in; and they have not even filled in their blank sheet of paper where there should be some policies. She might be hoping for some bad news to make her point: we are sorting out the mess she left behind.

Steve Brine Portrait Steve Brine (Winchester) (Con)
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Q2. Moving on, as we must, I echo the Deputy Prime Minister’s comments on the US presidential election and congratulate Mr Obama on his victory. It is always good to see a leader re-elected in difficult times.Does the Deputy Prime Minister agree that, alongside new, emerging markets—including, of course, those in the middle east—Britain should seek to strengthen our economic and trade ties with the US through a new trade deal, as we seek to boost our recovery and perhaps start one across the channel?

Nick Clegg Portrait The Deputy Prime Minister
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I agree with the hon. Gentleman. The lesson of the presidential election is that voters’ memories are longer than Opposition Members seem to think, because when it comes to actually casting a vote, voters remember who created the mess in the first place and who has to do the painstaking, difficult and, yes, longer than we had hoped job of sorting out that mess.

On the wider issue, of course there is so much we now need to do to work with the new Obama Administration. The hon. Gentleman mentions trade: I would like to see a new EU-US free trade agreement, which could create a real spur to economic growth in both economies. I was also delighted to hear overnight that President Obama singled out his commitment to dealing with climate change—another area in which we can work very well with him.

Meg Hillier Portrait Meg Hillier (Hackney South and Shoreditch) (Lab/Co-op)
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Q3. The Deputy Prime Minister tells us that he supports the living wage and the increase announced on Monday. Can he tell us how many Lib Dem councils pay the living wage?

Nick Clegg Portrait The Deputy Prime Minister
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As the hon. Lady knows—[Interruption.]

John Bercow Portrait Mr Speaker
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Order. The hon. Lady has asked the Deputy Prime Minister a question. I hope that hon. Members will have the courtesy to listen to the answer. I certainly want to hear it.

Nick Clegg Portrait The Deputy Prime Minister
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As the hon. Lady knows, her own leader has said that this is a voluntary process by which we need to encourage councils and employers in the public and private sectors to pay the living wage. No one will disagree with the idea of a living wage, with people being paid a fair wage for a fair day’s work, but there is a lot of extra work to be done to make that a reality. But guess what? It is this Government’s tax changes that will mean that as of next April someone on the minimum wage will have their income tax cut by half.

John Leech Portrait Mr John Leech (Manchester, Withington) (LD)
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The tragic death of Private David Lee Collins while off duty in Cyprus is a devastating blow to his mother, who is my constituent, and to family and friends across Manchester. Will the Deputy Prime Minister assure me that the Foreign Office and the Ministry of Defence are working with the Cypriot authorities to ensure that the perpetrators are brought to justice?

Nick Clegg Portrait The Deputy Prime Minister
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Everybody’s hearts will go out to the mother and other family and friends of David Lee Collins, who came to such an untimely death in the way my hon. Friend describes. It is obviously right for him to raise the issue on behalf of David Lee Collins’s mother, and I can certainly assure him that the Ministry of Defence and the Foreign Office will do everything they can to find out exactly what happened and bring the perpetrators to justice. I am sure that the Secretary of State for Defence, who is in his place, will seek to keep him updated as things evolve.

Rosie Cooper Portrait Rosie Cooper (West Lancashire) (Lab)
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Q4. Homes were wrecked and much-needed crops destroyed in the devastating floods that affected my constituency last month, and there are warnings that we face another winter of floods. The Government promised to bring forward plans for a new deal on flood insurance in July, but my worried constituents are still waiting. When will this incompetent and out of touch Government actually act on ensuring that ordinary families and businesses are protected from flooding—or will this be another broken promise?

Nick Clegg Portrait The Deputy Prime Minister
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The hon. Lady packed every soundbite into that one. We are involved in very detailed discussions with the insurance industry precisely to provide her constituents with the reassurances they rightly seek. I point out only that that is an agreement between the Government and the insurance industry that was never reached in the 13 years when Labour was in power. We are doing that work now. It is complicated work. It is very important work. We are devoting a lot of attention to it, and I hope we will be able to make an announcement in the not-too-distant future.

Geoffrey Clifton-Brown Portrait Geoffrey Clifton-Brown (The Cotswolds) (Con)
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Q13. Thousands of people in Syria are being killed each month, and the suffering of its people is immense. Sources within the country say that British assistance has been slow, and that the priority ought to be to support the civil administration councils so that basic water and sewerage services can be connected. What more can the Prime Minister do, in discussion with President Obama, to bring about a solution to this crisis?

Nick Clegg Portrait The Deputy Prime Minister
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I know that the Prime Minister, who of course is in the region right now, discusses this on an ongoing basis with the President of the United States, and will continue to do so. We are the second largest bilateral donor in Syria. Of course, the circumstances on the ground are incredibly difficult for the delivery of aid and assistance, but we need to make every effort to accelerate it, and to get it to the right people in a timely manner and to the right places. Any suggestions that the hon. Gentleman wishes to make to the Department for International Development, and to other Departments, about how we should do that would of course be warmly received.

Lilian Greenwood Portrait Lilian Greenwood (Nottingham South) (Lab)
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Q5. Official documents show that the Healthier Together review’s “best option” is downgrading Kettering general hospital’s A and E, maternity, children and acute services, and cutting 515 of its 658 beds. How can anyone believe the Prime Minister when he claims that those NHS services are safe in his hands?

Nick Clegg Portrait The Deputy Prime Minister
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I find it extraordinary that the hon. Lady persists in this wilful scaremongering. She plucks out the worst-case scenario when, as she knows, no decision has been taken. Instead of frightening people about what is happening in our NHS, why does she not celebrate the great work of our nurses, our doctors and other clinicians in the NHS who are delivering an absolutely world-class service for the people of Kettering, Corby and elsewhere?

Oliver Colvile Portrait Oliver Colvile (Plymouth, Sutton and Devonport) (Con)
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Will the Deputy Prime Minister confirm the Government’s commitment to marine renewable energy, especially in the south-west?

Nick Clegg Portrait The Deputy Prime Minister
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Marine renewable energy is clearly an area where the south-west has a natural advantage, and is one of the many areas of renewable energy that is reflected in our diverse approach to renewable energy generation. We have to wean ourselves off an over-reliance on one kind of energy generation, and spread our bets more fairly and sustainably in the future.

Valerie Vaz Portrait Valerie Vaz (Walsall South) (Lab)
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Q6. Not only is it Obama day, but national adoption week. My ten-minute rule Bill in the previous Session called for equalising statutory rights for leave, pay and allowances between adoptive parents and parents whose children are born to them. That can be done by regulations, so will the Deputy Prime Minister ask a Minister or two to meet me to eliminate that unfairness?

Nick Clegg Portrait The Deputy Prime Minister
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I will certainly make sure that the relevant Minister meets the hon. Lady, and I pay tribute to her for her long-standing campaign to equalise the rights of parents of adopted children—for instance, on parental leave—with other parents. I certainly believe that that should be the case. The Government have been looking at the issue closely and I hope that we will be able to make an announcement in the not-too-distant future.

Charlie Elphicke Portrait Charlie Elphicke (Dover) (Con)
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Does the Deputy Prime Minister agree that the Chancellor’s initiative to get the OECD to crackdown on international tax avoidance is all the more important when one considers that non-oil corporation tax went up by just 6% in the past 15 years, while income tax receipts almost doubled?

Nick Clegg Portrait The Deputy Prime Minister
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Yes, and that is why it is right that the Treasury and the Chancellor have been so assiduous in providing additional resources to ensure that the teams in Whitehall—Her Majesty’s Revenue and Customs and others—who crack down on tax avoidance are able to do so. The figures that we hope to be able to recoup in tax paid, which would otherwise have been avoided, are truly eye-watering. Billions and billions of pounds of tax will come into the vaults of the Exchequer which otherwise would have gone walkabout.

Angus Brendan MacNeil Portrait Mr Angus Brendan MacNeil (Na h-Eileanan an Iar) (SNP)
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Q7. The newly published world prosperity index shows our Nordic neighbours, Norway, Sweden and Denmark, holding the top three spots. In the last quarter, the oil fund of our neighbour Norway grew by $29.3 billion to an eye-watering $660 billion—equivalent to £5,000 for each Norwegian family. Will the Deputy Prime Minister take this opportunity to congratulate the Norwegians on their society and their enviable prosperity?

Nick Clegg Portrait The Deputy Prime Minister
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The Scottish National party’s arc of prosperity keeps changing. Last time I looked, it included Iceland, but now it does not. What will the hon. Gentleman do next? Pick out Malaysia or Indonesia? Try and be a bit more consistent, please!

Mark Reckless Portrait Mark Reckless (Rochester and Strood) (Con)
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Does the Deputy Prime Minister expect to be involved in the selection process for our next EU Commissioner?

Nick Clegg Portrait The Deputy Prime Minister
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I will not be a candidate, however much the hon. Gentleman might hope otherwise.

Karl Turner Portrait Karl Turner (Kingston upon Hull East) (Lab)
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Q8. The Deputy Prime Minister’s predecessor and mine is Labour’s excellent candidate in the police and crime commissioner elections in Humberside, but the Tory candidate describes the role as the “job from hell”. Does he agree with his Tory colleague, or does he think that he has it harder?

Nick Clegg Portrait The Deputy Prime Minister
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I will not try to compare notes with my predecessor on the police and crime commissioner elections. I hope that everyone will turn out to vote, but the fact that so many has-been Labour politicians and recycled ex-Labour Ministers are standing might put quite a lot of people off. None the less, I hope that people will participate in these important elections.

Mark Garnier Portrait Mark Garnier (Wyre Forest) (Con)
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Last week, Stephen Farrow was sentenced to life imprisonment for the brutal murder of my constituent Betty Yates and of Thornbury resident Rev. John Suddards. Will the Deputy Prime Minister join me in sending our congratulations to the police and thanking them for the speedy and successful conclusion of this case and in sending our deepest condolences to the families of both victims?

Nick Clegg Portrait The Deputy Prime Minister
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I am sure that the whole House wishes to join my hon. Friend in sending our sincerest heartfelt condolences to the victims’ families and friends and, as he said, in paying tribute to the police for moving very fast. It is incredibly important in heart-rending cases such as these that the public see that, where possible, justice is done and done as rapidly as possible.

Ian Lavery Portrait Ian Lavery (Wansbeck) (Lab)
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Q9. Will the Deputy Prime Minister explain to the House why the Liberal Democrats are fielding only 21 candidates out of 44 in the police and crime commissioner elections?

Nick Clegg Portrait The Deputy Prime Minister
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Because we are standing in those areas where Liberal Democrats wish to stand as candidates. [Laughter.] I know that the Labour party does not understand the meaning of the words “internal party democracy”, but it is something I am proud we have. The hon. Gentleman should try it some day.

Simon Hughes Portrait Simon Hughes (Bermondsey and Old Southwark) (LD)
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Q10. After inheriting from Labour a legacy of obscene bonuses and the biggest divide between rich and poor, will my right hon. Friend make it clear that the Government’s overriding ambition is to deliver a fairer Britain, and that one way of doing that is through affordable and social rented housing that delivers both fairness and growth?

Nick Clegg Portrait The Deputy Prime Minister
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Yes, and that is why it is so important that we have committed to £20 billion of investment in affordable housing, generating tens and tens of thousands of more affordable homes so that families have an affordable home they can call their own. I also draw my right hon. Friend’s attention to the significance of the announcement by the Secretary of State for Communities and Local Government yesterday that we will be looking at doubling the amount of money in local authority pension funds that can be used to invest up to £22 billion of extra money into local infrastructure. That is the way to make this country fair and to get the economy moving.

Jim Shannon Portrait Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)
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Q11. On behalf of my party, may I join in the tribute to the two soldiers, as well as prison officer David Black, who gave their lives last week? Tomorrow morning will mark the 25th anniversary of the Poppy Day massacre in Enniskillen. Twelve lives were cruelly taken and 63 people were injured when the IRA bombed the service of remembrance at the town’s cenotaph. This week, the police received a new line of inquiry. Will the Deputy Prime Minister join me in echoing the survivors’ call for justice and for new information to be brought forward?

Nick Clegg Portrait The Deputy Prime Minister
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I am sure the hon. Gentleman speaks on behalf of us all when he says we should pause and reflect on the terrible suffering of those who now have to re-live, 25 years later, all the memories of that terrible atrocity and those who were killed, injured or maimed. I know that the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland will be attending the anniversary event. This is an extremely difficult week for all who suffered at that time and have had to live with those memories ever since; and, yes, of course I can confirm that where there are new leads or new evidence, they will be pursued rigorously, and we will provide all support to ensure that that is the case.

John Hemming Portrait John Hemming (Birmingham, Yardley) (LD)
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Under the previous Government, officials used discretion to refuse to provide to people who were brought up in care information about their cases. Will the Deputy Prime Minister look to open the files so that people who were brought up in care can find out what happened to them?

Nick Clegg Portrait The Deputy Prime Minister
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I certainly think my hon. Friend is right in saying that, given the daily drip, drip effect of these horrific revelations—which seem to get worse every day—about things that seem to have taken place on a scale that was before now unimaginable, we should send out a clear message from all parts of this House to any victim who is sitting at home alone, still harbouring terrible memories of the terrible suffering they endured, that this is the time for them to speak out. This is the time for them to come forward. We will help them; we will reach out to them. We will make sure that their suffering is atoned for and that where we can find those who perpetrated these terrible abuses, they are brought to justice, even several years since those events might first have occurred.

Gemma Doyle Portrait Gemma Doyle (West Dunbartonshire) (Lab/Co-op)
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Q12. Scotland’s First Minister has misled the public on legal advice that does not exist and rewritten the ministerial code for his own gain, and there are strong suggestions that he will ignore the Electoral Commission in the upcoming referendum. People in Scotland are losing faith in the First Minister, and this Government are in danger of being complicit in yet another muddle. Does the Deputy Prime Minister trust the First Minister to deliver a fair, legal and decisive referendum on separation?

Nick Clegg Portrait The Deputy Prime Minister
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I hope the hon. Lady will recognise that we have been working on a cross-party basis, particularly with those parties that believe in maintaining the family of nations in the United Kingdom, to ensure a fair, legal and decisive vote in the referendum. I certainly agree with her characterisation: the spectacle of the SNP Administration using taxpayers’ money to stop disclosure to the public of legal advice that they never sought in the first place—honestly, you couldn’t make it up. It is almost a bit like dropping Iceland from the arc of prosperity.

Alan Reid Portrait Mr Alan Reid (Argyll and Bute) (LD)
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Q14. Rising prices to heat their homes and drive their cars are putting enormous pressures on people, particularly in large rural areas such as Argyll and Bute. What steps will my right hon. Friend take to make the tax system fairer and put more money in the pockets of people on low and middle incomes to help them to pay these rising bills?

Nick Clegg Portrait The Deputy Prime Minister
- Hansard - - - Excerpts

That is precisely why the centrepiece tax reform of this Government is a radical one to lift the point at which people start paying income tax to £10,000, up from £6,400, which is where we found it when we took over from Labour. When we deliver that, it will deliver a £700 tax cut to more than 24 million basic-rate taxpayers in this country, including in my hon. Friend’s constituency. We should celebrate that.

David Winnick Portrait Mr David Winnick (Walsall North) (Lab)
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Bearing in mind that we were selling arms to the Gaddafi regime right up to the uprising, is the Deputy Prime Minister pleased that the Prime Minister is busy now selling arms to Saudi Arabia, a country where human rights are non-existent and where amputations and floggings take place frequently—and we know how women are treated there? Is that Liberal Democrat policy as well?

Nick Clegg Portrait The Deputy Prime Minister
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As the hon. Gentleman will know, we have the strictest controls of almost any developed economy in the world governing the conditions under which we can sell arms to other countries. Nothing that we do in promoting our arms industry, which employs thousands of people in this country, impedes our ability to tell allies and other Governments where we have real concerns about their human rights record, democratic record or civil liberties record, and that is exactly what the Prime Minister has been doing this week.

Peter Bone Portrait Mr Peter Bone (Wellingborough) (Con)
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I sometimes think the Deputy Prime Minister would like to send me to a jungle in Australia for a month, but does he agree that when two different parties get together in the national interest to clear up the mess that Labour left us, we are doing the right thing, in particular by driving unemployment down? Let me just pick one constituency: in Corby, it went down 4.6% last month.

Nick Clegg Portrait The Deputy Prime Minister
- Hansard - - - Excerpts

For the first time in my parliamentary career I wholeheartedly agree with the hon. Gentleman. Let us savour and treasure this moment, because I suspect it will be very, very rare indeed. Like him, when I heard that the hon. Member for Mid Bedfordshire (Nadine Dorries) had been sent to a jungle to eat insects, I thought that, despite the appearance of civility from our new Chief Whip, it indicated a new disciplinarian approach in our Whips Office. I totally agree with the hon. Gentleman: we are doing the great job together of fixing the economy and creating jobs for people in the future, and that is a great shared endeavour.