European Union (Croatian Accession and Irish Protocol) Bill

Baroness Warsi Excerpts

Wednesday 16th January 2013 Lords Chamber

[The Senior Minister of State, Department for Communities and Local Government & Foreign and Commonwealth Office (Baroness Warsi)]

My Lords, I beg to move that the Report be now received. I would also like to respond briefly to points raised in Committee by the noble Lord, Lord Anderson, and the noble Earl, Lord Dundee, with regard to further EU enlargement in the western Balkans. I reassure the noble Lords that regional co-operation and good neighbourly relations are essential elements of EU enlargement. This was reiterated in the General Affairs Council conclusions of December 2011. The conclusions set out the EU’s expectation that disputes within the western Balkans should not have a detrimental effect on the shared goal of progress towards EU membership.

[Baroness Anelay of St Johns]

My Lords, it is unusual that there are no amendments down today. While noble Lords are leaving, could they do so quietly? The Minister is having the courtesy to respond to points made in Committee, and I know that those who took part in Committee will want to hear her courteous remarks.

[Baroness Warsi]

The conclusions set out the EU’s expectations that disputes within the western Balkans should not have a detrimental effect on the shared goal of progress towards EU membership. The Government support that statement in full.

Croatia, with its recent experience of accession negotiations, can itself play a constructive role in supporting its neighbours on their EU paths. I am pleased to say that Croatia is already doing this, as the noble Lord, Lord Anderson, highlighted in his remarks in Committee. In addition to the UK’s support for candidate countries, the UK provides expert support through EU peer-to-peer twinning projects. For example, since 2010, the UK has been awarded six twinning contracts in Kosovo, and we have recently been awarded a new project in Montenegro. We have already hosted a delegation of Croatian twinners to explore how we can work together on new twinning projects as partners in the region.

Finally, it is important that the EU’s enlargement process works. Croatia’s successful accession is an important concrete means of maintaining the incentive of EU membership in other western Balkan countries. Croatia’s efforts will highlight that the EU rewards the hard work that underpins countries’ transformations.

[Lord Anderson of Swansea]

My Lords, I thank the Minister for her helpful replies to the questions that I have raised, and join with her in saying that it is clearly in our interests that the whole of the western Balkans be brought successfully into the European family. The accession of Croatia on 1 July will certainly be a signal step in that direction, and we join with her in giving Croatia, and indeed the rest of the western Balkans, every blessing on that journey.

Syria

Baroness Warsi Excerpts

Thursday 10th January 2013 Lords Chamber

[The Senior Minister of State, Department for Communities and Local Government & Foreign and Commonwealth Office (Baroness Warsi)]

My Lords, with the leave of the House, I shall now repeat a Statement made in another place by my right honourable friend the Foreign Secretary. The Statement is as follows.

“Mr Speaker, with permission I will make a Statement to update the House on the crisis in Syria—a crisis which is still intensifying. Sixty thousand Syrians are now believed to have died, 600,000 people have become refugees, 2 million people are internally displaced and 4 million people are in desperate need.

To illustrate the true horror of the conflict, 1,000 civilians were reportedly killed in one six-day period over Christmas. On Christmas Day opposition activists reported that 17 people were executed at a checkpoint in the Damascus suburbs, nine of whom were from one family. The regime has used SCUD missiles to target populated areas, and deployed cluster munitions. Entire urban districts have been reduced to rubble in cities like Homs and Aleppo.

The House will join me in expressing our solidarity with millions of courageous Syrian people in the face of this appalling brutality. We continue to believe that the best way to end this bloodshed and to protect all Syria’s communities is through a political transition. Our country has a moral obligation to help save lives in Syria, and a national interest in ensuring that the country provides no haven for terrorist activity. We know that to achieve lasting stability we must work with the Syrian opposition and countries of the region and not try to impose a political settlement from the outside. We are determined that all our actions will uphold UK and international law, and support justice and accountability for the Syrian people themselves.

In the coming weeks we will focus on six principal areas. First, we will intensify our diplomatic efforts to reach a political transition. We are actively supporting the efforts of UN-Arab League special representative Lakhdar Brahimi who has travelled to Damascus and to Moscow for talks with the Russian Government, and who is due to hold trilateral talks with Russian and US representatives this week. My ministerial colleagues and I are in regular contact with him and expect to hold further talks with him in London later this month. Our goal remains to persuade Russia and China to join us in putting the full weight of the UN Security Council behind a political transition plan for Syria.

Secondly, we will continue our work to help the Syrian national coalition to develop its plans for the future of Syria. Since I last updated the House I attended the Friends of Syria meeting in Marrakech, where the US and many other countries followed us in recognising the national coalition as the sole legitimate representative of the Syrian people, and where $150 million was pledged to support the humanitarian effort. The coalition is enlarging its membership to include Christian, Kurdish and other minority communities. At a meeting in Istanbul this week we saw encouraging signs of the coalition making every effort to broaden its support further and build on its legitimacy, although much work remains to be done.

We are working to strengthen moderate political forces in Syria committed to a democratic future for the country. We have provided £7.4 million of non-lethal support to the Syrian opposition, to civil society and to human rights defenders, and I can announce that we will provide an additional £2 million of support, bringing the total to £9.4 million. Our assistance is designed to help to save lives, to mitigate the impact of the conflict, or to support the people trying to achieve a free and democratic Syria. It includes solar-powered lighting, generators, communication equipment and water-purification kits to help opposition groups, and satellite communication devices for activists to document human rights violations and abuses so that one day the perpetrators of these appalling crimes can be brought to justice.

This involves support for local-level administration councils providing services to Syrian people during the conflict. We have given training to more than 300 Syrian journalists, who are striving to develop alternative sources of media and freedom of the press in Syria, and we are training activists working to create a network of peace-building committees across five Syrian cities. We are also helping the national coalition to co-ordinate the international humanitarian response and have provided a humanitarian adviser to work with them. At all times we urge the coalition to ensure that all opposition groups meet their commitments on human rights.

Thirdly, we will continue to increase the pressure on the regime to stop the violence. In December we argued that the EU sanctions regime on Syria, including the arms embargo, should be rolled over for three months until 1 March rather than 12 months, so that there would be an earlier review of it. We believed that it was important not to freeze EU policy for a whole year just as a new opposition coalition was being launched and the conflict on the ground was intensifying.

No decisions have yet been made to change the support that we provide to the Syrian national coalition or the Syrian people but European countries now have the flexibility to consider taking additional steps to try to save lives if there is no progress in the near future. Clearly the best outcome for the Syrian people would be a diplomatic breakthrough, bringing an end to the bloodshed and establishing a new Syrian Government able to restore stability. However, we must keep open options to help save lives in Syria and to assist opposition groups who are opposed to extremism if the violence continues. We should send a strong signal to Assad that all options are on the table. We will therefore seek to amend the EU sanctions so that the possibility of additional assistance is not closed off.

No one can be sure how the situation in Syria will develop in the coming months. There is no guarantee that Mr Brahimi’s efforts to mediate a political agreement will be successful. President Assad’s speech last week urged the Syrian people to unite in a war against his opponents. Given the regime’s intransigence and brutality there is a serious risk that the violence will worsen in the coming months. If that happens the international community’s response will have to be stepped up. We will not rule out any options to save lives and protect civilians in the absence of a political transition in Syria. We will ensure that our efforts are legal, that they are aimed at saving lives, and that they support at all times the objective of a political transition and encouraging moderate political forces in Syria, and we will keep the House properly informed.

Fourthly, we continue to increase our life-saving humanitarian assistance to the Syrian people. The United Kingdom is the second largest bilateral donor to UN relief efforts, supporting more than 100,000 people across the region with food parcels, blankets and warm clothing. On 21 December my right honourable friend the International Development Secretary announced a further £15 million in humanitarian aid, bringing our total support to £68.5 million so far. Honourable Members will have seen images of Syrian refugees struggling with rain and cold in refugee camps across the region. The latest £15 million of funding will be used to provide food, clean water, blankets and shelter to help Syrians cope with the misery of these winter months. There will be medical supplies to treat the sick and wounded, since so many Syrian medical facilities have been destroyed, and armoured vehicles to enable humanitarian agencies to deliver aid safely inside the country.

The UN has appealed for $1.5 billion for the first six months of 2013. This is the largest ever short-term UN appeal but it remains seriously underfunded. At the donor conference hosted by Kuwait and the UN Secretary-General Ban Ki-moon later this month we will again call on other countries to pledge the additional humanitarian aid that is so desperately needed.

I pay tribute to the 26 humanitarian workers who have been killed in Syria since the fighting began and deplore the rise in attacks on medical facilities in Syria, which are contrary to international law and an affront to basic humanity. We urge all parties to stop the violence and allow humanitarian agencies to deliver assistance safely and without interference, in accordance with international law.

Fifthly, we are continuing detailed planning for how we can help a future Syrian Government deal with the many challenges that Syria will face during a political transition. This process must be led by the Syrian people, but they will need help from the international community as they repair roads and hospitals destroyed during the conflict, and restart their ravaged economy. Today we are hosting leading members of the Syrian opposition, and representatives of 14 countries and international organisations, at a Wilton Park conference designed to advance detailed planning of that support, including in the areas of political reform, security, institution-building and the economy.

Sixthly, we are supporting UN efforts to document and deter human rights abuses in Syria. The UN Human Rights Council’s Commission of Inquiry on Syria published its latest report on 20 December. It showed that the international human rights violations highlighted in its previous reports were continuing. We will continue to do all we can to support its work. We are providing specific leadership in efforts to confront rape and sexual violence in Syria. We have deployed experts to the region to provide training in how to respond to reports of sexual violence, and how to improve the prospect of future investigation and prosecutions. We will intensify this work as a matter of urgency. We are also urging the Syrian national coalition to commit itself to ensuring justice and accountability for the Syrian people, and are drawing its attention to the right of a future Government of Syria to refer the situation to the International Criminal Court—even though some members of the UN Security Council are blocking that option at present.

This is our approach: intensifying our efforts to forge agreement at the UN Security Council; pursuing a political transition on the ground while ruling out no option to save lives if the situation deteriorates; supporting the opposition and the Syrian people; increasing the pressure on the regime and being prepared to do so in new ways if necessary; working to deter human rights violations and abuses; and planning to help Syria get back on its feet once the conflict comes to an end. The Syrian people are enduring unimaginable suffering. They are at the heart of this crisis, their future is at stake, and our country and the world must not abandon them”.

My Lords, that concludes the Statement.

--- Later in debate ---

[Baroness Warsi]

I thank the noble Baroness for her response to the Statement. As always, I thank the Benches opposite for their strong support in this matter. There is clear unity across the Dispatch Box on what is clearly a continuing and worsening crisis. The noble Baroness raises some specific points. Unfortunately I cannot give her the specific date when the Foreign Secretary spoke to the Russian Foreign Minister, but I do know that both the Prime Minister and the Foreign Secretary have been in constant contact with their Russian counterparts. My own discussions took place towards the end of last year, when I spoke to the Russian ambassador. I can assure the noble Baroness and the House that we use all opportunities, both private and public. Indeed, at the United Nations General Assembly the Prime Minister commented very clearly about our belief that Russia needs to play a more constructive role in achieving progress.

In relation to the opposition and the meeting today at Wilton Park, one of its main purposes is to build further consensus and an action plan relating to political, economic and institutional reforms. It is, of course, planning for a future where it will have a say; where the views of the Syrian people will be expressed through a legitimately elected Government. The further funding and support for the opposition is to ensure that they can continue in that.

A specific addition is the UK humanitarian adviser who has been seconded into the assistance co-ordination unit, which is based in Turkey and is run by the national coalition. It effectively co-ordinates aid going both into Syria and into the refugee camps outside Syria.

The noble Baroness asked for some detail in relation to AQ and other extremist groups, an issue which concerns us. The number of fighters currently in the opposition runs into six figures. It is not, of course, an organised army—people come and people leave—and at this stage it is anticipated that the numbers who belong to an extremist ideology or are fighting on the basis of religious fundamentalism are limited. However, we are keeping a close eye on the matter.

As to the noble Baroness’s question about weapons, at this stage there is no change in the UK’s policy on their supply. We are mindful of our obligations under the EU embargo and sanctions—which we, of course, led—and of our obligations both internationally and domestically. We feel that an escalation of the supply of arms into the region would not help but, of course, we must remain flexible as to what is required to save lives in the future.

The noble Baroness also raised the issue of aid efforts to increase funds. The Foreign Secretary has been in discussions with Nabil al-Arabi. He is building on those discussions, as he is with his opposite numbers, in the lead-up to the conference. I cannot give precise details of the amount of funds that have been collected or pledged but we are urging all nations to play their part.

[Lord Ashdown of Norton-sub-Hamdon]

My Lords, the Government’s actions are welcome in so far as they go. They will have an effect but, I fear, it will be far less than we might wish. Does my noble friend accept that one of the reasons for that is because many people, especially in the Arab world and the Middle East, do not see this as a conflict within Syria between an oppressed citizenry and an oppressive dictatorship but rather as the front line in a widening war between the Sunnis and the Shia? Does she agree that such an event would be extremely damaging for the Middle East and have grave consequences for stability world wide? Does she understand and know that many rich Saudi businessmen—just as they did in Afghanistan—are now actively funding Salafi and Wahabi tendencies in Syria and throughout the Middle East? They are supported in large measure, with great unwisdom, by the Qatari Government, who are playing with fire. What steps are Her Majesty’s Government taking to advise both the Saudi and Qatari Governments of the hazardous policies that they are following and the very dangerous consequences that they could have?

[Baroness Warsi]

My noble friend speaks with great experience in relation to these matters. I can assure him that we are extremely mindful of the consequences of where this may go. It is for that reason that this crisis—which has now been on-going for 22 months—has left us in a situation where we feel consistently frustrated by the fact that we need to do more to save lives. However, we are not at this stage managing to achieve a consensus within the international community on the direction in which we need to travel to achieve that. We are acutely mindful of the role that other countries from the region could play in Syria.

The noble Lord will be aware of the work that we have been doing bilaterally with Saudi Arabia and other countries to tackle extremist ideologies. I am familiar with the work that has been done in relation to extremist ideologies and deradicalisation programmes; for example, within Saudi Arabia. We always build upon those discussions, not just for people who are radicalised within Saudi Arabia but those who may use that as a basis for fighting in other countries.

[Lord Wright of Richmond]

My Lords, I, too, am grateful to the noble Baroness for repeating this Statement, which raises a large number of very serious issues. I will limit myself to three brief questions.

First, I welcome the Foreign Secretary’s assurance that we are activiely supporting the efforts of Ambassador Lakhdar Brahimi. However, will the Minister accept that our recognition of the Syrian national coalition as the sole legitimate representative of the Syrian people not only amounts to a virtual declaration of war against President Assad’s Government but seriously undermines the already difficult mission which Lakhdar Brahimi is trying to carry out at the request of the United Nations and the Arab League?

Secondly, I am glad to learn that we are the second largest bilateral donor to United Nations relief efforts in Syria. However, does the Minister accept that giving massive assistance—the Statement mentions over £7 million—to a Syrian opposition, of which one of the most effective and murderous elements is the terrorist organisation, al-Nusra, contradicts our alleged efforts to get all parties to stop the violence?

Thirdly, I note that we have given training to more than 300 Syrian journalists. Does the Minister accept that a more balanced and objective assessment of the current civil war in Syria is needed, both of the extent to which President Assad still has the support of a significant part of the Syrian population, and of the extent to which terrorist activities by al-Nusra, al-Qaeda, and other extremist movements have contributed to the distressingly high casualty figures? We may, as the Statement says, have a moral obligation to save lives in Syria, but direct intervention in a Sunni-Shia war, and even the threat of providing military assistance in the future, can only precipitate a further deterioration of this tragic conflict.

[Baroness Warsi]

The noble Lord raises a number of important issues. I understand his concerns in relation to what could be perceived by our recognition of the Syrian national coalition as the legitimate voice of the Syrian people, or the consequences that could flow from that. However, when a regime has inflicted such brutality upon its own people, it is right that we engage with a coalition of those in opposition. I can assure him that al-Nusra is not part of that coalition, and that it is therefore not in receipt of any funding that is being given to the recognised opposition coalition.

With regard to the balance of reporting that is coming out of Syria, it is right that we fund human rights defenders and journalists to take records and keep material for potential future prosecutions. The noble Lord will be aware, as will other noble Lords, that we must not allow a culture of impunity to exist at the end of such crises, and that there must, therefore, be accountability for the actions that took place during that crisis. The noble Lord will also be aware that for access and security reasons, it is very difficult for independent observers to be on the ground in Syria. It is therefore right and appropriate that we fund and support those who are there on the ground to take records.

[Lord Anderson of Swansea]

My Lords, the Minister painted a very bleak picture of this appalling civil war, in which there will be no winners and only losers—those being the people of Syria themselves. She described the frustration at the United Nations Security Council, and an underfunded aid effort. Will she answer three questions?

First, the Minister spoke of working with the Syrian opposition and the countries of the region. Presumably those countries include Iran and Russia. Certainly, President Assad’s speech was very intransigent, but is there any evidence of any softening of the position of Russia, and to what extent do we believe that Iran should be brought into the discussions?

Secondly, we know of the Russian naval presence in that area. How do we interpret that—simple sabre-rattling, or worse? Thirdly, quite properly, the Minister spoke of seeking to ensure that the perpetrators of these appalling crimes are brought to justice. What efforts are we making to ensure that those who are guilty of such violations of human rights are aware that we are monitoring their actions and indeed that we intend that ultimately they will face justice? What are the means of communication to such people directly?

[Baroness Warsi]

With regard to working with the opposition and other important allies in the region, we have of course been working closely with Turkey, which unfortunately has had to bear the brunt of taking on the majority of refugees who have come out of Syria. Other partners in the region are playing a constructive role.

With regard to Russia, I think that I made clear when I repeated the Statement that we are using all opportunities to impress upon the Russians, using discussions with our opposite numbers and counterparts in all fora, that there has to be some progress in this matter. Is there a softening of their position? Are we facing a brick wall? At this stage I could describe what we are seeing as a potential crack in the brick wall, but we must continue to ensure that we keep pushing.

With regards to perpetrators of crimes, there is always the possibility—provided that the United Nations Security Council can pass a resolution, which of course would have to be supported by China and Russia—that those crimes could be referred to the International Criminal Court. There is also the alternative option that, at the end of this crisis, these matters could be tried within Syria by a democratically elected Government.

[Lord Alderdice]

My Lords, does my noble friend recognise that the aid given to our allies like Turkey—particularly Jordan, which has almost 250,000 refugees, and Lebanon—is not merely a humanitarian issue? Let us recall the destabilisation of Jordan in 1970 by the Black September movement. There is a real danger of countries—not so much Turkey but certainly Lebanon and Jordan—being destabilised by the number of refugees coming in. Do Her Majesty’s Government understand that this is not just a humanitarian question but one of stabilisation?

In discussions with the opposition, are we trying to ensure that we get an undertaking from them that, should they find themselves in a position of governance at a later stage, they will hand over all stockpiles of chemical weapons and nuclear materiel to an appropriate international organisation? Can we get that agreement at this point, rather than waiting until we are bemoaning their being abused, should these folk find themselves in government at a later stage?

[Baroness Warsi]

I agree with my noble friend’s first point; of course our support in the region has both a humanitarian element and a stabilisation element. Countries can find themselves with a large number of refugees and that can lead to internal challenges for those nations. We are therefore supporting countries in the region in dealing with those issues.

My noble friend makes an important point with regard to chemical and biological weapons. We have had these discussions with the opposition coalition. We have asked them to appoint an individual who will be specifically responsible for co-ordinating the discussion of these matters with a view to ensuring, if at all possible during the crisis, that these weapons are safeguarded, and we have urged them, at the end of this, to sign up to the chemical weapons convention and the biological and toxic weapons convention. The opposition coalition is in agreement with us on that.

[Lord Harries of Pentregarth]

My Lords, I am glad to hear from the Statement that the coalition is enlarging its membership to include Christian, Kurdish and other minority communities. With regard to those Christian minorities, as the Minister knows, Christians are particularly vulnerable at the moment because they have been relatively protected under the Assad regime, they are disproportionately represented among refugees and people who are internally displaced and of course they are particularly at risk with the wholesale outbreak of sectarian violence. What are the Government thinking with regard to the particular protection of those minorities?

The second question concerns the Kurds. As we know, since the First World War the Kurdish people have been seeking their own country, which they feel they have been denied. There are reports that they will look for an opportunity to bring this into being now. In what way are the Government bearing this possibility in mind?

[Baroness Warsi]

My Lords, as I said in the Statement, the inclusion of minorities in the national coalition has formed a large part of our discussions. The president of the national coalition is Sheikh al-Khatib; below him are four vice-presidents, one of whom is from the Christian community. A further two have been appointed from the Muslim community and a fourth position has been reserved for the Kurdish minority. However, that appointment has not yet been made because there are discussions within the Kurdish minority as to who would be the most appropriate person. The rights of all minorities, including the Christians and Kurds, have formed part of the discussions in relation both to the way in which the national coalition has been set up and to how those reforms are to be taken forward.

On the wider question about the Kurds, I hope that, in the discussions that we are having with the national coalition, those are matters that we can move towards resolving, certainly as far as Syria is concerned.

[Baroness Uddin]

My Lords, I welcome this detailed Statement. In the light of yesterday’s discussion in this House on rape being used as a weapon of war and the Minister’s reference to a specialist team being sent to monitor violence against women, what assessment have her Government made of the number of women who may have reported rape and who the perpetrators may be? With regards to the discussions both here and in Turkey, what proportion of women are taking part in these so that a post-conflict Syria is truly representative and equal?

[Baroness Warsi]

The noble Baroness asks a very important question. She will be familiar with the initiative to prevent sexual violence, to which the Foreign Secretary has given a huge amount of time and energy. Too often, as in the case of Syria and, as we saw, across the Arab world during the Arab uprising, sexual violence is used as a tool of war—sadly not just against women but against men as well. I do not have specific numbers for reports of sexual violence during the Syria conflict. If the office has those numbers, I will write to the noble Baroness and send her those details.

She also asks an important question about the participation of women. Again, the answer is not immediately obvious from the brief that I have here but I will make those inquiries for my own information as well as to ensure that I can send the noble Baroness a detailed response.

[Lord Alton of Liverpool]

My Lords, there is widespread concern at what might appear to be unconditional support for the so-called opposition forces, not least because of the treatment of minorities that has been referred to already. Did the Minister see the report in the Sunday Times recently about how a group of Jihadists beheaded a Syrian Christian and literally fed him to the dogs? Did she also see reports concerning links with family members of Osama bin Laden and al-Qaeda? Therefore, as my noble friend Lord Wright and the noble Lord, Lord Ashdown, said earlier, should we not be prudent and cautious before feeding a situation where we could simply make bad matters worse? Would the Minister not agree that, in the list of priorities that she mentioned earlier, the treatment of minorities and the upholding of their human rights should be an unconditional issue as far as our support for any opposition group is concerned?

May I also ask her to revisit a reply that her noble friend Lady Northover gave me on 18 December when I asked about support for Hand in Hand for Syria, a British medical charity? She replied that there were no current plans to fund its work. In view of the massive humanitarian needs in Syria at present, will she undertake to look again at that reply?

[Baroness Warsi]

I will look again that reply and I will certainly make inquiries of the Department for International Development. I know that we are currently using international NGOs for the specific work within Syria but if this is an option that could be looked at, and one that DfID feels is appropriate, I will certainly feed that information back to the noble Lord.

I can assure the noble Lord that our support for the opposition is not unconditional. It is very clearly conditional upon the fact that we require reform, we require a plan and we require them to sign up to basic requirements such as the need for equality and non-discrimination towards minorities. We must also be careful since when we make this argument, which has been made before on a number of occasions, it surely cannot be right that we sit here in Britain and feel that the only way that the rights of minorities, including Christians, across the Arab world can be protected is if they are being ruled by a dictator. There surely has to be another way in which Christians and other minorities are protected as part of a democratically elected Government under which all communities feel part of that nation.

[Lord McConnell of Glenscorrodale]

Given the horrors endured by the people of Syria and the impotence of the international community in 2011 and 2012, does this not reinforce the need for reform of the UN Security Council? In their discussions with the newly re-elected President of the United States of America, now starting his second term in office and therefore not facing re-election in four years’ time, do the Government plan to make taking forward reform of the UN Security Council a priority?

[Baroness Warsi]

My Lords, I also have the privilege of being the Minister responsible for the United Nations. Indeed, on Sunday I will be travelling to the United Nations for a full day of talks focusing specifically on the reform of the UN.

[Lord Elystan-Morgan]

My Lords, many noble Lords have raised the question of recognition. When Her Majesty’s Government recognised the national coalition some weeks ago, was that on a de jure or de facto basis? Presumably it was the latter because there has been no ambassadorial representation—nor is there any intention of it, as I understand it. Indeed, can the Minister confirm that, if any de jure recognition is contemplated, many considerable and complicated problems of public international law arise from the nature and composition of the opposition that we are talking about.

[Baroness Warsi]

My Lords, it is at moments like this that I realise why the noble Lord, Lord Howell, was such an institution—I will continue to strive to fill his large shoes. This is the kind of question he would be able to answer immediately. What I can say is that, interestingly, some of the questions around the recognition of the national coalition and the implications of that for us—of course we continue to have a diplomatic relationship with the state of Syria—were questions that I asked in my briefing about an hour ago. When I get those answers, I will write to the noble Lord and give them to him.

European Union (Croatian Access and Irish Protocol) Bill

Baroness Warsi Excerpts

Thursday 10th January 2013 Grand Committee

[The Countess of Mar]

My Lords, I suggest to noble Lords that they put an amendment down on Report if they wish to speak to it.

[The Senior Minister of State, Department for Communities and Local Government & Foreign and Commonwealth Office (Baroness Warsi)]

My Lords, I will take a few brief moments to thank noble Lords who have made contributions today. The noble Lord, Lord Monks, makes important historical points but also raises some concerns for the future. I add my comments to those of my noble friend in relation to Mr Mateša. I am sure that all of us will join him in wishing him a speedy recovery.

There was some overlap of the comments made by the noble Lord, Lord Anderson, and my noble friend Lord Dundee in terms of those who are inside the European Union family, those who are now joining and those who are seeking to join. I think we would all agree that there is a responsibility on those of us inside the European Union to ensure that we keep on making the case for an enlarged European Union and for those joining the EU family to meet their responsibilities. We must also ensure that as nations we continue to strengthen our bilateral relationships with nations aspiring to become part of the European Union family. With those comments, I beg to move that the Bill be reported to the House.

Bill reported without amendment.

Participation of Arabs in Public Life

Baroness Warsi Excerpts

Wednesday 9th January 2013 Lords Chamber

[Lord Lea of Crondall]

To ask Her Majesty’s Government, in the light of the recent census results in which 240,000 respondents described themselves as “Arab”, what plans they have to promote the wider participation of Arabs in public life in the United Kingdom.

[The Senior Minister of State, Department for Communities and Local Government & Foreign and Commonwealth Office (Baroness Warsi)]

My Lords, we warmly welcome the contribution of Arabs to public life in the United Kingdom and the formal recognition of this group in the 2011 census. The Government’s integration policy document, Creating the Conditions for Integration, sets out our approach to successfully bringing together local communities. We will continue to support the integration of Arabs and all other groups into mainstream communities and their participation in local life.

[Lord Lea of Crondall]

My Lords, I thank the Minister for her reply. She is particularly well qualified, if I may say so, to help take this sort of issue forward. Perhaps she will comment on two further aspects. First, can local authorities with substantial Arab communities benefit from experiences in different parts of the country of holding seminars and cultural events where Arab participants play a specific part in taking projects forward and generally help to break the ice? Secondly, there are no Arabs in this House. Given the two very special relationships that we have in the Middle East—a topic that we debate endlessly—is not the lack of Arab participation here in very sharp contrast to the strong and indeed excellent contribution made by noble Lords with more affinity with Israel? Both communities in Britain are roughly the same size.

[Baroness Warsi]

I know that the noble Lord has had an interest in this matter for a number of years, and indeed pushed hard for Arabs to be included as an individual category in the 2011 census. He will be aware from the census data that the majority—just over 50%—of those who self-identity as Arabs reside in the south. The Government do not have a specific policy of engaging with groups purely on the basis of their race or religion. However, the Government do have a policy of creating conditions—both shared spaces and shared experiences—where communities from different backgrounds can come together. In relation to the noble Lord’s second question, I would welcome a member of the Arab community becoming a Member of this House.

[Lord Foulkes of Cumnock]

My Lords, I agree with the noble Lord, Lord Lea of Crondall, that the noble Baroness is really an excellent Minister to answer this Question. However, does the fact that it is for the Department for Communities and Local Government and she is a Foreign Office Minister indicate that there is some difficulty in recruiting people from the Back Benches to serve as Ministers in the House of Lords? Can she explain to the House why there is such difficulty and when we might expect to see some brave men and women step forward to the front line to defend the indefensible?

[Baroness Warsi]

The noble Lord clearly does not know me as well as perhaps other noble Lords do. I am a Minister in both the Foreign and Commonwealth Office and the Department for Communities and Local Government, so I am simply doing my job.

[Lord Tomlinson]

Going back to the serious part of the original Question, would the noble Baroness agree with me if I suggest that the best way for the 240,000 people who describe themselves as being Arab to participate in public life is to go through the normal procedures for gaining citizenship of this country and then participate on the same basis as any other citizen?

[Baroness Warsi]

The noble Lord will be aware, as will other noble Lords, that there are many people from the Arab community—people who identify themselves as Arab—resident in this country who were born here or are British citizens. Many are extremely successful, such as Dr Hany El-Banna, the co-founder of Islamic Relief; a rower from the Arab community took part in the Olympics. I go back to the approach that this Government have, which is not to engage with communities purely on the basis of their race and religion. It is right for the Government to create the conditions by ensuring that there are no barriers to integration and equipping people with the appropriate language, opportunities and spaces to meet people of different communities and achieve their full potential.

[Lord Soley]

As chairman of the Arab-Jewish Forum, I think the Minister might agree with me—and I hope she does—that there are a large number of Arabs who participate as local councillors or school governors, and on a range of other issues, but they do not always get recognised. A few years ago, I very nearly got an Arab to be a Member of this House but unfortunately he got squeezed out, as people do given the vast numbers coming in these days. My noble friend, who raised this question, is absolutely right. It would be sensible. There are a lot of Arabs in this country who are full citizens and take part very fully, and it should not be impossible for one of them to be a Member of this House. Even bearing in mind that I go around saying this House is far too big in number, the principle is right.

[Baroness Warsi]

I agree with the noble Lord that there are many Arabs playing a hugely influential role in large parts of society, including as councillors. I think the noble Lord will also agree that those who identify themselves as Arabs have many different countries of origin, backgrounds and, indeed, religions—there are many people who are Arab and Christian or Arab and Muslim, for example. I agree with him. Another hugely successful Arab is Sir Magdi Habib Yacoub, whom many will know as a world-leading transplant surgeon.

[Baroness Gardner of Parkes]

Is the Minister aware that under our constitution, only British and Commonwealth citizens can sit in this House? We almost lost the latter but at the last hour of the last Government we managed to reinstate the right of Commonwealth citizens and those of the Irish Republic. Do these questions about Arabs in this House relate to people who still look on their origins as Arab but are now British citizens?

[Baroness Warsi]

We are talking about people who self-identify on the census as Arab. People identify themselves in relation to nationality, ethnicity and religion. When I filled in the census data, I identified myself as British, of Pakistani origin and Muslim. These are people who are very much integrated into British society.

Homosexuality in Nigeria and Uganda

Baroness Warsi Excerpts

Wednesday 9th January 2013 Lords Chamber

[Lord Lexden]

To ask Her Majesty’s Government what representations they have made to the governments of Uganda and Nigeria about legislation regarding the treatment of homosexuals in those countries.

[The Senior Minister of State, Department for Communities and Local Government & Foreign and Commonwealth Office (Baroness Warsi)]

My Lords, the British Government are strongly committed to upholding lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender rights bilaterally and with international partners. We have raised concerns about the proposed anti-homosexuality Bill being considered by the Ugandan Parliament at very senior levels. Most recently, the Minister for Africa raised the issue with President Museveni during a visit to Uganda on 21 November. We have made clear our objection to the Nigerian same-sex marriage prohibition Bill at all levels of government through our High Commission in Abuja and through the European Union Working Group on Human Rights, most recently in December 2012.

[Lord Lexden]

My noble friend’s strong expression of concern about the treatment of homosexuals in Uganda and Nigeria will be widely welcomed and appreciated. What measures are in place to ensure that violations of the human rights of homosexuals in those two countries are carefully monitored and raised with their Governments? What steps have been taken to ensure that asylum is available here for those fleeing persecution? Given the commitment in the coalition agreement to use our relationships with other countries to push for unequivocal support for gay rights, what success are the Government having, in association with other member states, in encouraging the Commonwealth to work collectively in accordance with its own public commitments for the dismantling of the laws that violate so grossly the human rights of homosexuals?

[Baroness Warsi]

My noble friend raises a number of important issues. We take LGBT rights very seriously. The matter has been raised publicly and privately by both the Prime Minister and the Foreign Secretary. We also support a number of NGOs on the ground, in both Uganda and Nigeria, that work to support the LGBT community and do work in relation to HIV/AIDS support and information, which relates to those communities as well as others. Asylum applications are considered, as are any other asylum applications, under the convention.

[Lord Avebury]

My Lords, would the Government consider amending Section 94 of the Nationality, Immigration and Asylum Act to provide that gay men from Nigeria have an in-country right of appeal against refusal of an asylum application, as gay women from Nigeria already do? Before making any further representations to the Government of Uganda, will the Government consult Sexual Minorities Uganda, the umbrella NGO that campaigns for legal and social equality for LGBT people in that country?

[Baroness Warsi]

As my noble friend is aware from previous Questions, unsuccessful asylum claimants have a right of appeal to the UK courts. Designation under Section 94(5) does not deny a right of appeal to lesbian, gay, bisexual and transsexual applicants from designated countries, including Nigeria. However, claims from nationals of designated countries for non-suspensive appeals that are clearly unfounded must be certified as such and therefore can be appealed only from outside the United Kingdom. There are no plans at this stage to change this.

On my noble friend’s second question, the British High Commission in Kampala is in regular contact with the NGO that he mentioned—Sexual Minorities Uganda—and other Ugandan civil society groups that are campaigning for improved human rights in Uganda. We have in the past provided funding for organisations, including Sexual Minorities Uganda, for training, advocacy and the cost of legal cases related to the protection of LGBT communities and human rights.

[The Lord Bishop of Ripon and Leeds]

My Lords, will the Minister consult with Lambeth Palace and the incoming most reverend Primate the Archbishop of Canterbury on these issues, since Lambeth has considerable experience of relating to these two countries in particular, and of challenging their human rights records?

[Baroness Warsi]

We know that the church has networks in both Uganda and Nigeria. Indeed, the Foreign and Commonwealth Office has called upon those networks in discussions in order to use them as influence and opinion-formers in those countries. We will continue to make sure that that contact remains strong.

[Lord Pannick]

My Lords, at the next Commonwealth Heads of Government Meeting, will the Government support the recommendation of the Eminent Persons Group to the 2011 meeting that all Commonwealth nations should now be required to respect the rights of homosexuals?

[Baroness Warsi]

The noble Lord will of course be aware of the Commonwealth charter, which specifically talks about the importance of non-discrimination on any grounds, including homosexuality.

[Lord Triesman]

My Lords, I have now read two reports that indicate that a majority of Commonwealth countries have laws in one form or another that are oppressive towards gay men and, in many of those cases, towards women as well. Supplementing the question of the noble Lord, Lord Pannick, might the Government have it in mind to see significant revisions of the Harare principles so that there is absolute clarity that equality of status is a key principle for all oppressed groups in the Commonwealth?

[Baroness Warsi]

The noble Lord will be aware that homosexuality is already illegal in Uganda, as are same-sex relationships in Nigeria. We take the position that we do and we make our submissions very clear, but it is important to note that, unfortunately, at present the positions of those two countries are supported by a large number of their parliamentarians and public.

[Lord Lester of Herne Hill]

Is it useful for the Minister to know that the Joint Committee on Human Rights, of which I am a member, met the recently formed Joint Committee on Human Rights in Uganda last month and we seemed to get somewhere in emphasising that anti-sodomy laws are a most undesirable colonial legacy that an independent African country should move beyond?

[Baroness Warsi]

My noble friend presents us with an alternative line of argument but I assure him, as I assure other noble Lords, that we use all avenues, appropriate measures and opportunities to make our views clear.

Bahrain

Baroness Warsi Excerpts

Wednesday 9th January 2013 Lords Chamber

[Lord Avebury]

To ask Her Majesty’s Government what is their assessment of the decision by the highest court in Bahrain on 7 January to uphold life sentences imposed on eight opposition figures and human rights activists.

[The Senior Minister of State, Department for Communities and Local Government & Foreign and Commonwealth Office (Baroness Warsi)]

My Lords, we are deeply dismayed by the decision to uphold sentences against this group of political activists. We have previously commented that at the time that these individuals were originally convicted, reports acknowledged by the Bahrain Independent Commission of Inquiry suggested that some defendants had been abused in detention, denied access to legal counsel and coerced into confessing.

[Lord Avebury]

My Lords, I am grateful to the noble Baroness and to the Minister Mr Alistair Burt for the expression of concern. My noble friend will recall that the Bassiouni commission of inquiry said that the sentences of political detainees should be commuted and that they should be compensated for the tortures that they endured, and the King said that he accepted those recommendations. Why are we not pressing the King to honour his promises? Do the Government recognise that there is not the faintest possibility of dialogue, reconciliation or peace on the streets as long as the martyrs remain in custody?

[Baroness Warsi]

My noble friend raises an important point. He will be aware that the BICI—the Bahrain Independent Commission of Inquiry—did not consider the National Safety Courts, the special military courts set up to try people arrested during the disturbances, to be the correct method, and therefore recommended a retrial. The current prisoners that my noble friend speaks about were subsequently retried and sentenced. They appealed that sentence but unfortunately it has been upheld. He is right to say that not all the BICI recommendations have been implemented. I met the Foreign Minister in November last year and I can assure my noble friend and other noble Lords that our conversation was frank, robust and honest. I made it very clear that we expect progress to be made in relation to both the BICI recommendations and the recommendations of the Universal Periodic Review.

[Lord Campbell-Savours]

Will the Minister make it clear to the Bahraini ambassador in London that the sending of hampers from Fortnum & Mason to Members of the British Parliament will have no influence on our judgments on human rights matters? It is not the way that we do business in this country.

[Baroness Warsi]

These issues are far too serious for anyone—Members of this House, Members of the other place or, indeed, the Bahraini embassy—to consider that matters can be brushed under the carpet or under a hamper.

[Lord Deben]

Is the Minister sure that the Bahraini Government understand just how seriously we take this? I have a feeling that it will be seen as merely the sort of thing that we do and say because we are that kind of country. I hope that she will enable Bahrain to understand that the future of our relationship depends on its behaving in a civilised way. If it does not, there really must be an understanding that that will change entirely the way that we deal with Bahrain.

[Baroness Warsi]

My noble friend makes an important point. We have a strong relationship—a strong friendship—with Bahrain. It is because that friendship is so strong that we can have very honest conversations. I assure him that, from the Prime Minister through to the Foreign Secretary and the Minister responsible for Bahrain, and in the discussions that I have had, we do not lose any opportunity to raise these concerns. We get real support from the other side: there is a willingness to move these matters forward. As I said in my recent discussions with the Foreign Minister, the more that can be achieved and the more progress that can be shown in terms of these recommendations from the BICI and the UPR, the better this relationship will become.

[Lord Judd]

In the Government’s negotiations or conversations with the Government of Bahrain, do they take the opportunity not only to raise this issue in human rights terms but to point out forcefully to the Bahrain Government that to indulge in disproportionate action of this kind is to play into the hands of extremists who seek to capture the desire of countless ordinary people for progress and human rights developments within that country, and that the way to ensure security for their country is to avoid like the plague counterproductive action?

--- Later in debate ---

[Baroness Warsi]

The noble Lord is right that whenever you close down the space for legitimate protest, you start increasing the space where extremism can thrive. Those are the points that we make. But noble Lords may take some comfort from the fact that in the Universal Periodic Review to which Bahrain submitted itself last year, of the 176 international recommendations that came back, 143 were adopted in full and 13 partially. Therefore, progress was made by international concerted action.

[The Lord Bishop of Hereford]

My Lords, will the Minister give assurances that the strength of the Government’s ongoing protest at these decisions of Bahrain’s highest court will not be compromised or weakened by any other considerations? I am sure that she would agree that it is vital that we are consistent in our speaking up for those suffering injustice, and that we uphold individual freedoms of speech and expression of that, as well as, as has been referred to already, their protection from abuse in detention or anywhere else.

[Baroness Warsi]

I can give the right reverend Prelate that assurance.

[Baroness Falkner of Margravine]

My Lords, my noble friend is probably not aware that I raised this matter of Bahraini human rights with the Foreign Secretary as long ago as September 2010, and he assured me that, due to our excellent relations with the Government of Bahrain, these at that point relatively minor human rights transgressions would be sorted out. The situation has only got worse since then. Will my noble friend please go back and suggest that the matter also be taken up with the Saudi Interior Minister, who I understand is visiting the United Kingdom at the moment, and indeed the whole of the Gulf Cooperation Council, because simply talking to Bahrain and hoping that good relations will solve the issue will not do so?

[Baroness Warsi]

I assure my noble friend that we are not simply talking and hoping, and that some specifics have been put in place. The BICI recommendations are a starting point, and the UPR built on that. We have had some recent progress, in that legislation will be introduced to reduce the ban on associations and assembly. There have also been some specific incidents whereby permits have been given for those protests to take place. So progress is constantly being made; it is not simply a question of our talking and hoping.

Democratic Republic of Congo

Baroness Warsi Excerpts

Monday 17th December 2012 Lords Chamber

[Lord McConnell of Glenscorrodale]

To ask Her Majesty’s Government what action they will take bilaterally with the government of the Democratic Republic of the Congo, Rwanda and Uganda, and as a member of the United Nations Security Council, to encourage a long-term solution to the conflict in eastern Democratic Republic of the Congo.

[The Senior Minister of State, Department for Communities and Local Government & Foreign and Commonwealth Office (Baroness Warsi)]

My Lords, the UK remains deeply concerned about the situation in eastern DRC. To work for a sustainable peace in eastern DRC, we will build on the Prime Minister’s and Minister for Africa’s contact with the presidents and other leaders of Rwanda, the DRC and Uganda to promote dialogue. We will seek ways to support regional efforts to resolve the crisis, both bilaterally and with key partners, and we will work with partners in the UN and the EU to drive forward action to help to build long-term stability and prosperity in eastern DRC.

[Lord McConnell of Glenscorrodale]

My Lords, as I tabled this Question, the international conference of the Great Lakes, all 11 member states, endorsed the moves toward peace talks and the need for a regional solution. Unfortunately, those peace talks look to be stalling and there are already many tensions that could result in the violence starting all over again in an area where, despite the DRC being one of the richest countries in the world, it is 187th out of 187 countries in the UN development index.

Will the Government insist in every discussion in the international institutions—the EU, the UN and elsewhere—in their role as a key leader of international donors, and, critically, in the bilateral discussions that we have with every country in the region, on a regional solution that does not just allocate blame where it is deserved but looks to involve everyone in a long-term, peaceful approach that can deliver real change in the eastern DRC and across the region for the future?

[Baroness Warsi]

The noble Lord makes extremely important points and comes to this matter with great expertise, having served as the Prime Minister’s special representative on conflict resolution and having had a great deal of involvement in the region. He will be aware that the Minister for Africa took part in an emergency visit to the region at the end of November. He visited Uganda, Rwanda and the DRC. He met with the presidents and foreign ministers of all those countries and was there the day before the Great Lakes conference. The noble Lord will be aware that this conflict has been going on for many years, but we continue to push, both bilaterally and in wider fora, the need for a peaceful settlement.

[Lord Chidgey]

What was the Government’s reaction to President Museveni’s comments to SADC that the MONUSCO peacekeepers were merely military tourists in the DRC, given that this country contributes $60 million a year to the upkeep of that mission? Will the Government continue to press in the Security Council for MONUSCO’s mandate to be uprated from being mere peacekeepers to peacemakers, with all the resources that are needed to deter the criminal elements of the M23 and their Rwandan backers?

[Baroness Warsi]

My noble friend is aware that MONUSCO’s mandate does not permit it to engage in more than a supportive role at this stage. However, I take his concerns on board. He is right that there are 19,000 MONUSCO troops in the area and the UK has committed £69 million to those troops this year. He will also be aware that the deputy force commander of MONUSCO is a Brit, who will continue to ensure that it is as effective as it can be with a correct mandate.

[Baroness Kinnock of Holyhead]

My Lords, does the Minister agree that if the violence rape and humanitarian crisis in the DRC are to end, it is essential that international and regional partners, which have been discussed during this Question, move away from what I can only call a reliance on short-term fixes? Does she further agree that, in order to achieve durable solutions, the UN Secretary-General should appoint a special envoy to engage with Kinshasa, regional Governments and civil society, and especially with the women of eastern DRC?

--- Later in debate ---

[Baroness Warsi]

The noble Baroness makes important points. I, too, am familiar with the great challenges in the region, especially around the issue of rape and sexual conflict. In fact, the Foreign Secretary’s initiative is to focus on that region as one of his department’s main areas. However, the noble Baroness will also be aware that this matter has been ongoing for many years, despite many initiatives, and continues to be a great challenge for the international community. A United Nations Special Envoy is something we have been calling for.

[Lord Avebury]

My Lords, the Minister did not answer my noble friend’s question about the mandate of MONUSCO and enabling it to take a proactive role in solving conflicts in eastern DRC. Could she now address that point?

[Baroness Warsi]

My noble friend is aware that some commentators have been critical of the UN peacekeeping force, which they felt did not fight to protect Goma. However, I go back to MONUSCO’s first priority, which is the protection of civilians. It is mandated to support the DRC army. If the mandate is to change then that is something we will have to go back to, but I will take back the comments that my noble friend makes.

[Baroness Royall of Blaisdon]

The Minister and my noble friend mentioned the sexual and domestic violence that is taking place in the region. What are the Government are doing to try to ensure that women in the region are properly involved in both peacekeeping and peacemaking initiatives?

[Baroness Warsi]

My Lords, sexual violence in that region has been of the most horrific kind. It is why the Foreign Secretary, in relation to a specific initiative, has focused on working on sexual violence being used as a weapon of war. The noble Baroness will be aware that up to now there has been a culture of impunity in relation to these matters; they are just seen as a by-product of these conflicts. We try as far as possible to ensure that women are a part of all the interactions that we have with the region.

European Union: Recent Developments

Baroness Warsi Excerpts

Monday 17th December 2012 Lords Chamber

Moved By

[Baroness Warsi]

That this House takes note of recent developments in the European Union.

[The Senior Minister of State, Department for Communities and Local Government & Foreign and Commonwealth Office (Baroness Warsi)]

My Lords, I am looking forward to a very long afternoon and evening. We are here to discuss recent developments in the EU, a topic which is never far from the headlines and is of significant interest to Members of this House.

My right honourable friend the Prime Minister and my noble friend Lord Strathclyde have just provided a full and informative report, to this House and the other place, of some of the most recent developments in last week’s European Council. I am also pleased to bring two Bills before the House this afternoon. The provisions in both Bills are technical in nature but will, in their own way, play an important role in the future shape of the EU.

The first is the European Union (Croatian Accession and Irish Protocol) Bill which provides for the necessary parliamentary approval to allow the UK to ratify Croatia’s accession to the EU and the transitional immigration controls to be applied post accession. The Bill also provides for approval of a protocol on the concerns of the Irish people which is to be added to the EU treaties. I introduce the second on behalf of my noble friend Lord McNally: the European Union (Approvals) Bill simply provides for parliamentary approval of three draft EU decisions. I will return to the two Bills in some detail later. Members of this House will no doubt wish to discuss areas of their own particular interest during the debate. If noble Lords will permit me, I will use the two EU Bills, which represent just a few of the recent developments in the EU, as a starting point for the debate.

Membership of the EU has brought, and continues to bring, real benefits to the UK. Enlargement and the establishment of the single market are two of the EU’s greatest achievements. The single market is the largest market in the world with more than 500 million consumers and 21 million companies. It has opened up prosperity and opportunity to hundreds of millions of people. The challenge we face now is to maintain those benefits in the face of global financial challenges.

The European Union, alongside NATO, is an instrument of peace and reconciliation that has helped to spread and entrench democracy and the rule of law across Europe, and has helped to make armed conflict between its members unthinkable. This has recently been recognised with the award of the Nobel Peace Prize. That is why we support further conditions-based enlargement. Croatia’s accession will further demonstrate the transformative power of enlargement, marking a historical moment, with the joining of the first of the western Balkan countries involved in the wars of the 1990s.

We recognise that the EU needs to do better in much of what it does and that people across Europe want more of a say in how the EU does its business. The House of Lords EU Select Committee has done a great deal in examining the work of the EU. I am grateful to the committee for its ongoing scrutiny of EU decision-making. Most notably in the context of the accession Bill, I welcome its current inquiry on EU enlargement.

When they came into office, this Government committed to give Parliament a greater say in the EU decision-making process. In order to do that, we introduced the European Union Act 2011, which puts Parliament at the heart of the process. That is why we have these two Bills before the House today, both of which have been introduced under the provisions of the European Union Act 2011.

The European Union (Croatian Accession and Irish Protocol) Bill provides for parliamentary approval of the Croatian accession treaty and of the Irish protocol, which is to be added to the EU treaties. The Bill also provides an enabling power to allow transitional immigration controls to be applied on Croatian workers exercising their right to free movement.

Croatia is expected to join the EU on 1 July 2013. Meanwhile, we expect Croatia to sustain the momentum of six years of significant reform, particularly on judiciary and fundamental rights issues, so that it meets fully all EU requirements by the time of accession. Croatia’s accession will represent the achievement of a historic goal, not only for Croatia but for the EU. Croatia’s accession will set the bar for other countries of the region in pursuing their own European future and demonstrate clearly what can be achieved in the region.

The enlargement process continues to evolve with each accession and Croatia has faced the toughest negotiations yet. It was the first to negotiate under the new Chapter 23 that deals with the judiciary and fundamental rights, rightly putting the emphasis of the accession negotiations on the rule of law. It is the first to make full use of opening and closing benchmarks within the negotiations of each chapter to ensure results before chapters were closed. It is the first to experience pre-accession monitoring, a process designed to ensure that it is ready in full before it accedes. Croatia will join the EU better prepared than any previous candidate has been.

Croatia has already largely met the strict pre-accession criteria. It has made significant progress in tackling corruption and organised crime and in protecting fundamental rights, as recognised in the two most recent Commission monitoring reports. It has also made considerable progress in dealing with the legacy of the Balkans wars in areas such as war-crimes trials and refugee returns, and it continues to tackle these challenges.

Croatia’s full co-operation with the International Criminal Tribunal for the former Yugoslavia was a requirement for closure of Chapter 23. This will continue to be assessed as part of the Commission’s monitoring up until the date of accession. However, let me be clear: while the Commission’s monitoring helpfully identifies these outstanding issues, it also states clearly that it expects Croatia to be ready on time. This is an assessment that we share.

With its modest population of some 4.4 million people, the potential impact of Croatian migration is relatively small, but the UK remains vigilant to that impact. Furthermore, we have not identified any victims of trafficking from Croatia in the UK. In the US State Department Trafficking in Persons Report 2011, which ranks countries in terms of their capacity to tackle trafficking and protect victims, Croatia was designated as a tier 1 country alongside the UK. As a safeguard, the Government will be putting measures in place to minimise any possible impact of opening the British labour market to workers from Croatia. I can assure noble Lords that the Government are committed to applying appropriate controls on the free movement of Croatian workers in order to safeguard the UK labour market.

The accession treaty sets out the framework within which member states may apply transitional immigration controls to Croatian nationals who wish to work in their country. This Bill transposes the legal framework for transitional immigration controls in the accession treaty into UK law. The Home Office will bring secondary legislation before this House in order to apply those controls under UK law. The intention is to retain the current immigration controls applied to Croatian nationals for a transitional period following accession. The Home Office has published details of the proposed transitional controls in a statement of intent. All the necessary legislation will be in place when Croatia joins the EU.

[Lord Davies of Stamford]

My Lords, can the noble Baroness tell the House what the transitional period is proposed to be?

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[Baroness Warsi]

My Lords, it is anticipated that the transitional period could be up to seven years, but I am sure that the details of that will come out during further debate this afternoon.

The Bill also deals with the Irish protocol. This is, in effect, a clarification of Ireland’s understanding of certain aspects of the EU treaties in relation to its constitution. It does not change the content or application of the treaties. The Irish protocol is important to the Irish as it will enshrine in EU law the legal guarantees given to Ireland by EU member state Heads of State or Government. It was agreed as a condition of Ireland’s ratification of the Lisbon treaty.

The protocol confirms that neither the European Charter of Fundamental Rights nor the freedom, security and justice provisions of the Lisbon treaty affects the application of the Irish constitution on the right to life, the protection of the family and the protection of rights in respect of education. The protocol also confirms that the Lisbon treaty does not make any change, for any member state, to the extent or operation of the competence of the EU in relation to taxation. Furthermore, it confirms that none of the provisions of the Lisbon treaty affects or prejudices Ireland’s traditional policy of military neutrality. It also sets out clarifications in relation to a number of specific defence-related matters.

The protocol must now be ratified by all 27 member states before it can enter into force. Here in the UK, approval of the protocol requires primary legislation; thus, provisions to do just that have been included in this Bill.

The second Bill is the European Union (Approvals) Bill, which provides for parliamentary approval of three draft EU decisions: first, the proposal to give legal effect to the electronic version of the Official Journal of the European Union; secondly, the five-year work programme—the multiannual framework—of the EU fundamental rights agency; and, thirdly, the draft European Council decision to maintain the number of EU Commissioners at the equivalent of one per member state. Parliament must grant its approval before the UK may agree to the decisions in Brussels.

Looking at these matters in turn, I will give a brief outline of the proposal on the electronic version of the Official Journal of the European Union. This is the gazette of record for the EU, which is published every working day. It records the decisions made by and the legislative acts of the EU institutions. The electronic official journal has existed in parallel with the print version for some years. However, a European Court of Justice judgment found that only the printed version of the official journal is authentic. EU legislation is therefore necessary to give the electronic version legal effect.

I turn now to the work programme of the fundamental rights agency. The agency was established in 2007, and its role is to support the European institutions and member states, when they are acting within the scope of EU law, to take measures and actions which respect fundamental rights. It also has a role in communicating about, and raising awareness of, fundamental rights. The agency’s work is regulated by a five-year work programme which sets out the thematic areas of the agency’s activity. These must include the fight against racism, xenophobia and related intolerance and be in line with the European Union’s current priorities. The agency’s first, and current, work programme covers the period from 2007 to 2012 and will expire at the end of this year. In December 2011, the Commission brought forward a proposal for a new work programme to cover the period from 2013 to 2017. The themes set out in the work programme very much continue the themes of the current one. Although there are some adjustments in the terminology between the two work plans, the changes will not alter the work that the agency has been doing. Nor will they change the role or functions of the agency.

Finally, I turn to the draft European Council decision to maintain the number of EU commissioners at the equivalent of one per member state. The EU Commission currently comprises 27 commissioners, one from each member state. The Lisbon treaty provides for a reduction by one-third in the size of the Commission from 1 November 2014. However, the treaty also allows the European Council to alter the number of commissioners, subject to unanimous agreement. The proposed reduction in the size of the Commission, and the subsequent loss of a guaranteed commissioner, emerged as a concern of the Irish during the ratification of the Lisbon treaty. In order to secure Ireland’s ratification of the treaty, it was agreed that a decision would be taken to maintain the number of EU commissioners at the equivalent of one per member state. From our perspective, this decision will ensure the retention of a UK commissioner, and will mean that a UK voice continues to be heard within the Commission.

In conclusion, the Government remain committed to being a key player in the EU. Our relationship with the EU is not, however, an unquestioning one. We need to protect UK interests while supporting our neighbours and allies across the continent to achieve their own aims. The Government have set out the steps that they are taking to assess the UK’s relationship with the EU. We have also put in place legislation to ensure that Parliament has its say in decisions that will shape the EU. That is why I have brought the two Bills before this House today. The content of the Bills will have a limited impact on the UK in comparison to the greater benefits they will bring to other member states, both existing and future, and to the EU as a whole. They are, however, in the interests of the UK, which is why the Government give them their whole-hearted support. I beg to move.

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[Baroness Warsi]

My Lords, I am grateful to all those who have spoken in this debate and have applied their learning and expertise to the issues that have been discussed. I thank the noble Lord, Lord Liddle, for his indication that the Front Bench opposite do not intend to table amendments in Committee or on Report.

We have heard today a wide range of views on the European Union and the UK’s place in it. Perhaps I may briefly remind the House of the matters that we are here to debate. Two Bills have been put before the House for its consideration. First, the European Union (Croatian Accession and Irish Protocol) Bill will pave the way for the UK to approve Croatia’s accession and to apply transitional migration controls to protect the UK labour market once Croatia joins the EU. The Bill also provides for parliamentary approval of a protocol on the concerns of the Irish people in relation to the Lisbon treaty. The second Bill, the European Union (Approvals) Bill, gives parliamentary approval for the Government to agree to three draft decisions which I outlined in my opening statements.

Noble Lords have also had the opportunity to debate the wider EU context in which these Bills are presented to the House. In my opening speech, I briefly set out the Government’s views on Europe. We are keen to make the best of those benefits that membership of the EU brings, but we also take a pragmatic approach to our relationship with the EU, focusing on what works best for the UK. It is clear from the contributions made to the debate today that there are many different views of what would work best for the UK.

The UK’s isolation and/or its inability to renegotiate were raised by the noble Lords, Lord Maclennan, Lord Judd, Lord Kerr, Lord Anderson, Lord Hannay and Lord Owen. We remain an active participant in many EU negotiations. We are central to the debate on competitiveness, the single market and trade. We lead on taking tough action on foreign policy issues such as Syria and have formed lasting alliances on the EU budget. Of course we are not central to the debate on the eurozone, but we will play a role to ensure that the interests of the UK rather than just those of euro countries are represented.

My noble friend Lord Renton made a very positive Conservative contribution, for which I thank him, as did my noble friend Lord Jopling. Fifty-five years ago may have been the first time that the Conservatives talked about Europe at party conference, but I think that he will agree that we have certainly made up for it since.

The noble Lord, Lord Monks, asked what we were opting out of. It is a question that requires detailed consideration and it is why we are having the balance of competences review. That review is high-level and will look at the impact of nearly 40 years of EU membership on people in the UK. It will finish in 2014 and is currently on schedule. The calls for evidence for Semester 1 reports have been published and will be open for 12 weeks. The review will look at the scope of the EU’s competences as they affect the UK, how they are used and what that means for Britain and our national interest. I hear the concerns expressed by the noble Earl, Lord Sandwich, but the aim is to deepen public understanding of the nature of our EU membership and provide a constructive contribution to the wider European debate about modernising, reforming and improving the EU, a point made by my noble friend Lord Maclennan. It is not a consultation about in or out. There is no question of the UK disengaging or withdrawing from the EU as a result of this exercise, nor will it cover alternative models, like the Swiss model.

I welcome the strong support for Croatian accession from the noble Lord, Lord Grenfell, my noble friend Lord Risby and many other noble Lords. I agree about the importance of some of the issues that they raised. On war crimes, for example, the Commission’s report notes that during the monitoring period 87 war crimes cases were transferred to the specialist tribunals, and the strategy for addressing impunity has started. A new list of national and regional priorities in prosecuting war crimes was adopted by the Croatian Government in September. However I agree with the noble Lord, Lord Grenfell, and the Commission that an intensified effort is needed.

I thank the noble Lord, Lord Williamson of Horton, for reminding us of the long list of practical, everyday good that the EU brings to the UK and that it is about more than businesses, bankers and summit meetings. The noble Lord, Lord Empey, raised the important issue of transitional arrangements and immigration. This Government are clear and confident in addressing, planning, preparing and responding to the challenges that uncontrolled immigration can present. I am grateful to the noble Lord, Lord Grenfell, for injecting a reality check into the potential immigration impact of Croatia’s accession. The noble Lord, Lord Davies, asked how long the transitional immigration controls would be applied for. The maximum is seven years. After the first two years, member states can extend transitional arrangements for a further five. After that, member states can extend for a further two years if there is a threat to the labour market. After seven years, there are no longer any legal powers to maintain transitional arrangements. We intend to apply for the first five years, then review for a further two if appropriate.

My noble friend Lord Roper raised important points about the future format of the EU, as did my noble friend Lord Tugendhat, whose helpful contribution I appreciate. We support a multifaceted EU where member states with a range of different interests and needs can work together in informal groupings, such as the Like Minded Group or a more formal group—for example, the Schengen countries. My noble friend Lady Falkner outlined this approach and, quite rightly, warned of unworkable options. Multiple forms of EU membership already exist and different parts of Europe co-operate in different ways. It is in both EU and UK interests that the EU has the flexibility of a network, not the rigidity of a bloc. The EU is not, and should not, become a matter of everything or nothing. My noble friend Lord Howell of Guildford made that point eloquently when he spoke about Europe’s single core increasingly not working and how a detailed differentiation can work and will ultimately give it more legitimacy. I thank him for his contribution.

The noble Lord, Lord Liddle, spoke passionately about a number of issues. He asked about the Government’s plan on the JHA opt-out, as did my noble friend Lord Taverne. The Government have committed to a vote in both Houses before we make a decision on the opt-out. We are currently consulting the relevant committees about arranging these votes. Today’s debate will inform that debate. The principle of an opt-out was negotiated by the previous Government. We must decide by 31 May 2014 whether to accept the European Court of Justice jurisdiction over those EU measures in this area adopted before 1 December 2009. As I said earlier, there will be a vote in both Houses before a formal decision is made. I sense from his passionate contribution that the noble Lord, Lord Liddle, was making a case for joining the euro, more European bureaucracy and not acting in the best interests of the UK. I disagree with all three of those points.

The noble Lord, Lord Giddens, made a strong case in relation to the UK economy and that of the eurozone countries. Unfortunately, I cannot trade statistics with the noble Lord, but the Government do not underestimate the economic challenges that we currently face. We inherited an economic situation that no one would envy, but we are on the right path with low and falling unemployment levels and low interest rates. However, it is in our interests that the eurozone resolves its difficulties, and this will be a factor in our future growth. That is probably the kind of answer that the noble Lord did not want, but if I find the necessary statistics to trade with him then I will write to him.

The noble Lord, Lord Jopling, warned about the fast-tracking of the accession of Serbia, Kosovo and Bosnia. I agree with the emphasis on the rigorous implementation of conditionality and on the importance of the process of EU accession negotiations as a key factor in promoting stability and putting the bloodshed of the 1990s behind us. The UK will remain a strong supporter of enlargement but also of a strict conditions-based approach. The Foreign Secretary’s visit to Bosnia, Serbia and Kosovo in October gave a strong push to the political progress that is needed in all of those countries both on domestic reform and, crucially, on the key outstanding disputes between them. EU enlargement to those countries will not be quick but, as has been the case for Croatia, the rigour of the process should lead to fundamental changes.

I thank the noble Earl, Lord Sandwich, who was complimentary about the UK’s position in Croatian accession negotiations. The UK will remain one of enlargement’s strongest and most vocal supporters in both Brussels and the individual countries. The Government therefore disagree with the position taken by the noble Lord, Lord Stoddart, on Croatia.

The noble Lord, Lord McConnell, raised the need for a streamlined European Commission. The Government agree that we must continue to push for a more streamlined European Commission; we believe that efficiency savings can be made. However, in this case, it is important to meet commitments made to Ireland at the time of the Lisbon treaty and maintain one Commissioner per member state. This will also ensure that we maintain our seat at the table during negotiations about the next Commission.

The noble Lord, Lord Pearson, has always presented an alternative view—one that neither I nor most of the speakers in the debate could agree with. He wrote to me about a meeting but suggested that other people should attend it. I understand that my office has written back and offered an officials’ meeting with the people whom he suggested, but I am open to a one-to-one meeting with him. The noble Lord also spoke about the eurozone and whether putting an end to the euro would solve our current economic woes. We have been clear that uncertainty in the eurozone is damaging the global economy. The UK is not in the euro and this Government have no intention of joining. As such, we have been clear that it is up to the eurozone leaders to take the necessary steps. We will, however, fight to defend the single market and support eurozone members in their efforts.

The noble Lord, Lord Anderson, spoke about UK nationals being underrepresented in EU institutions. I understand the longstanding issue of the need for more UK nationals in key positions in these institutions. We are working to address this, looking both at preparing UK nationals for the application process and at raising awareness of the career opportunities of working for those institutions.

My noble friend Lord Dobbs made an important point about the growing democratic deficit. I agree with him to this extent: the EU must reform to be relevant to the lives of ordinary people in the European Union. I welcome the contribution of the noble Baroness, Lady Quin, especially in relation to accurate communication of the issues and debate. I know that she comes to this matter with great expertise.

The Government’s position is clear, and we will continue to adopt an active approach to working with other EU countries in the national interest. The time is right for us to look closely at the relationship that we have with the EU. Work is under way to do just that. In the mean time, the two Bills before this House will help to shape the future of the EU, each in its small way. Neither will have a significant impact on the UK but it is right that we debate them in this House, and they will deliver UK objectives and benefits to some of our allies in the EU. That is why the House should support the Bills. I beg to move.

Motion agreed.

European Union (Croatian Accession and Irish Protocol) Bill

Baroness Warsi Excerpts

Monday 17th December 2012 Lords Chamber

Moved by

[Baroness Warsi]

That the Bill be read a second time.

Relevant documents: 10th Report from the Delegated Powers Committee.

European Union (Approvals) Bill [HL]

Baroness Warsi Excerpts

Monday 17th December 2012 Lords Chamber

Moved By

[Baroness Warsi]

That the Bill be read a second time.

[The Senior Minister of State, Department for Communities and Local Government & Foreign and Commonwealth Office (Baroness Warsi)]

My Lords, on behalf of my noble friend, Lord McNally, I beg to move that this Bill be read a second time and committed to a Grand Committee.

Bill read a second time and committed to Grand Committee.