EU: United Kingdom
Baroness Warsi Excerpts(11 years, 5 months ago)
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Lord Dykes
To ask Her Majesty’s Government what discussions they will hold with the Government of Germany regarding the future role of the United Kingdom in the European Union.
The Senior Minister of State, Department for Communities and Local Government & Foreign and Commonwealth Office (Baroness Warsi)
My Lords, Ministers will meet their German counterparts for the third time in January as part of the process of building bilateral co-operation between the cross-departmental European Affairs sub-committee and its German equivalent. We maintain regular bilateral contacts and discuss a wide range of EU-related issues. Noble Lords may be aware of the Foreign Secretary’s speech on the future of the European Union, which he made in Berlin alongside the German Foreign Minister and in which he underlined that the UK has played a leading role in forging EU policy and will continue to do so.
Lord Dykes
My Lords, I thank the Minister for that very positive Answer. She will have noticed in recent days that Germany—a very successful country that does not have our old-fashioned hang-ups about pretend sovereignty—seems to want us to be full-hearted members of the European Union. Does she not agree that there is a marvellous opportunity now for us to reach a sensible accord with Germany and with other leading member states—indeed, with all the member states of the Union—on the future of the extensive budget negotiations, allowing for a blend of financial discipline and important investment in infrastructure, without the Government worrying too much about a small number of Conservative MPs who have old-fashioned views on these matters, and about some UKIP candidates as well?
Baroness Warsi
My Lords, I know that there is a wide variety of opinions in this House, including on my Back Benches. All opinions in the House are valid in their own right. In relation to the budget negotiations, the Prime Minister will soon make a Statement about last week’s meeting. The Leader of the House of Lords will repeat the Statement later today, so it would be inappropriate for me to deal with that. On our relationship with Germany, I agree with my noble friend; we have a strong relationship. Germany is the UK’s second largest export market worldwide. The UK is Germany’s sixth largest trade partner. Great Britain is the first investment destination for German companies. Almost one in six of all foreign companies in Germany are British. There is a strong relationship that continues to grow.
Lord Clinton-Davis
Does the Government’s strategy of aligning Britain with the far right members of the EU alienate or befriend Germany?
Lord Clinton-Davis
What I asked is whether the Government’s strategy of aligning Britain with the far right members of the EU alienates or befriends Germany.
Baroness Warsi
I thank the noble Lord for the question but I disagree with the statement he makes; the Government are not aligning themselves with the far right in Europe.
Lord Dobbs
When my noble friend next has the opportunity, will she take one of her German colleagues to Athens, or indeed to any large city in Greece, to one of its hospitals where patients are not getting medical treatment? Or will she take them to one of its schools, where young children are fainting because of lack of nourishment? Or, even better, will she take them to the ports and airports of Greece where a huge queue of young, ambitious, successful people are desperate to get out of that poor country? Does she accept they are not getting the peace and prosperity they were promised but are instead seeing the death of democracy? There are some people on this side of the House who still take democracy as being a very important asset.
Baroness Warsi
I agree with the noble Lord, democratic legitimacy within the EU is absolutely crucial. A number of polls have shown a fall in contentment about being close to the decision-making within Europe. The noble Lord raises important points and this is why we must continue to play our role within Europe, continue to reform Europe and continue to make it relevant for today’s economies.
Lord Liddle
My Lords, all sides of this House want to see a very strong relationship with Germany and regard it as one of our leading partners in a European Union in which we want to play a leading role. However, does the Minister seriously believe that our ability to be taken seriously by Germany is enhanced by all the talk of renegotiation, looser relationships and referenda—maybe now two referenda, one before and one after the general election? When will the Government put a stop to this nonsense on their own Back Benches?
Baroness Warsi
My Lords, I do not believe the Government should ever step away from acting in what is Britain’s national interest. It is important that the UK sets out very clearly, with its German counterparts or any other member state within the EU, those areas on which we agree. With Germany we agree on the need for further competitiveness, the need to further the single market and the need for more free trade agreements. However, the coalition Government must also be bold and brave enough clearly and loudly to set out Britain’s national interest within the EU.
Lord Pearson of Rannoch
My Lords, has the noble Baroness read yet another respectable analysis, this time from Professor Tim Congdon, which finds that our EU membership is costing us about 10% of GDP or £150 billion per annum? Is it not now obvious, even to Her Majesty’s Government, that our prosperous future lies outside the EU and free of control from the bloated octopus in Brussels?
Baroness Warsi
The noble Lord makes an important point but I do not intend to trade academic reports from the Dispatch Box. However, if he has the time, I shall be happy to give him a briefing on the economic importance of our continued membership of the EU.
Lord Phillips of Sudbury
My Lords, does my noble friend the Minister accept that the EU is hugely complicated and that by and large the citizens of this country have only a very partial understanding both of its status quo and of the arguments that now go on in this place? Can the Government do anything about reducing that gap in understanding?
Baroness Warsi
It is important that there is further and better understanding of Britain’s role in the European Union as well as the role of the European Union in the interests of Britain. However, there are certain matters that the public are entirely clear about. They were raised by all the political parties during the last general election, and they were that no further powers should pass to the European Union without the say-so of the British people. The coalition Government took that on board and it is why we introduced a referendum lock as part of the European Union Act passed last year.
Lord Tomlinson
Does the noble Baroness agree that far from making an important point, the noble Lord, Lord Pearson, made a point that would amount to the economic destruction of this country? Does she further agree that there is no future for Great Britain as a trading nation in the isolationism which she seems to support on her own Back Benches?
Baroness Warsi
My Lords, the coalition Government are clear that we believe that the best interests of Britain’s economic future will be served by being a member and part of the European Union, but I would also say that even though I may not agree with some of the points made by noble Lords, it should be said that they are important points which further the debate. That is why I have said that I am more than happy to put the contrary view to the noble Lord, which I hope he will take up.
Lord Stoddart of Swindon
Is it not odd that we should have a Question in this House asking whether the Government will hold discussions with the Government of Germany regarding the role of the United Kingdom in the European Union? I would have thought it would be very much better if the Government had a discussion with the voters of this country and let them say what they would prefer the future of Britain to be, either in or out of the European Union.
Baroness Warsi
Various discussions are taking place at different levels. It is important that we should have a discussion with the people of this country and they made that clear before the last election in relation to what they expected this Government to do. That is why we introduced a referendum lock and why we are doing an audit of which powers should stay within the European Union and which competences we should fight to bring back. It is also why they wanted us to enter into tough budget negotiations, which the Prime Minister continues to do. However, I think that it is also important for us to have honest, frank and open conversations with other members of the European Union to ensure that we get the best reform possible so that the European Union acts in the best interests of all the member states, including Britain.
Religion in the United Kingdom
Baroness Warsi Excerpts(11 years, 5 months ago)
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The Senior Minister of State, Department for Communities and Local Government & Foreign and Commonwealth Office (Baroness Warsi)
My Lords, I thank the noble Lord, Lord Griffiths, for giving me some credit but despite it I will have to rush through because I only have eight minutes in which to conclude.
I thank those who have contributed to this well informed debate, and particularly the noble Lord, Lord Singh, for focusing attention on this important subject. The noble Lord has extensive experience as a leading figure in the Sikh community and is an invaluable supporter of national and international interfaith work.
This Government believe that religion plays a vital role in British society. Not only do we support people in their right to follow a faith if they choose to do so; we also celebrate faith and faith communities’ contribution to society. I agreed with the noble Baroness, Lady Neuberger, when she spoke of the great contribution of faith in the areas of healthcare and education. As I put it in my 2010 speech to the Anglican Bishops’ Conference: unlike previous Governments—I am sorry, but I am going to have to say this—we do “do God”.
Faith communities make a vital contribution to national life and have done for centuries: guiding the moral outlook of many, inspiring great numbers of people to community service, providing help to those in need. Across the country, people from different faiths work hard in countless churches, mosques, temples, gurdwaras and synagogues, and in charities and community groups, to address problems in their local communities. The noble Lord, Lord Singh, summed this up better than I can when he spoke about the state being there when things in society go wrong, but religion being there from the outset to stop them going wrong in the first place. My noble friend Lord Hussain eloquently detailed his perspective on the role of religion today and its importance.
The 30,000 faith-based charities in this country make a huge difference at home and abroad. We warmly endorse the work of charities that do so much to support the fabric of society for the public benefit.
Research shows that people of religious observance are more likely to be volunteers. The Government are recognising and harnessing that fact. I congratulate my noble friend Lady Eaton on her contribution and leadership on this issue, specifically on the Near Neighbours programme. Through our £5 million investment in this Church Urban Fund programme we are using the existing infrastructure of the Church of England to build productive local relationships between people of different faiths.
Places of worship of different faiths in a town or city can sometimes be unaware of the work each is doing, often to address similar problems. The Government want to help build effective, co-operative working relationships between people of different faiths. We continue to fund the important work of the Inter Faith Network for the UK and the Faith-based Regeneration Network, intermediary bodies that link up, encourage and resource interfaith dialogue projects and faith-based social action. The previous Government had supported an annual Interfaith Week since 2009 and we are delighted to continue to do so.
The Government are also happy to support A Year of Service, to highlight and link up faith-based volunteering efforts during Her Majesty the Queen’s Diamond Jubilee year. The noble Lord, Lord Janner, was right to highlight Mitzvah Day, which is part of that. I am sure that noble Lords will agree that there could be no better tribute to Her Majesty.
The Government are also committed to maintaining the status of religious education as a compulsory subject that all pupils must study throughout their schooling, subject to parental choice. Religious education is important so that children can understand the history that has shaped the values and traditions of this country, forming a key part of promoting the spiritual, moral, social and cultural development of children and young people. We consider religious education fundamental to children’s learning. The Government also remain committed to the provision of collective worship in schools—or, as I knew them, assemblies.
The noble Lord, Lord Curry, was right to say that the UK has a strong Christian heritage. As I said in a speech when I led the largest ever ministerial delegation to the Holy See earlier this year, Britain is proud of its established church and Europe must be more confident in its Christianity. It is therefore right that religious education reflects the fact that the religious traditions of Great Britain are in the main Christian. Last year, every state school in England was provided with a King James Bible to mark its 400th anniversary and recognise the huge influence it has had on our culture, language, society and values—values that my noble friend Lord Popat was right to say are as much his values as a Hindu as they are Christian values.
The noble Lord, Lord Curry, also raised concerns about the perceived marginalisation of Christians. I am in receipt of the Christians in Parliament All-Party Parliamentary Group report setting out these concerns, and we are currently considering a response to that.
Local authorities are responsible for drawing up locally agreed syllabuses, which non-faith-based maintained schools must follow. These syllabuses are broadly Christian, while taking account of the teaching and practices of the other principal religions in both that local area and wider Britain. Faith schools can develop their own syllabuses and we see thousands of fantastic Jewish, Hindu, Christian and Muslim schools setting the highest standards, both in faith teachings and more generally. This approach, which responds to local factors, giving local authorities a unique, locally agreed syllabus, chimes with this Government’s view of localism.
All academies have to teach religious education under the terms of their funding agreement with the Secretary of State. Academies are not required to follow a locally agreed syllabus, but can choose to do so. I am proud to say that one-third of free schools—our flagship education policy—are also faith-based.
Noble Lords will agree that freedom of religion is a fundamental human right. The Government defend the right of people to follow a faith and express that faith, free from discrimination, intolerance or persecution. In an important and enjoyable intervention, my noble friend Lord Patten was quite right to raise the international dimension of this freedom. I hope that he will take comfort from the fact that my role, both in the Foreign and Commonwealth Office and at the Department for Communities and Local Government, deals with the international and domestic aspects of freedom of religion.
In 2010, this Government made it a requirement for all police forces to record anti-Semitic attacks. We are funding tighter security measures in Jewish faith schools. We appointed the first UK envoy for post-Holocaust issues, Sir Andrew Burns. We are funding the Holocaust Educational Trust’s Lessons from Auschwitz project and we are committing funds to the Holocaust Memorial Day Trust, all moves which I know the noble Lord, Lord Sacks, welcomes and supports
We are now finally starting to tackle the more recent scourge of anti-Muslim hatred. As we announced last week, we are funding the Measuring Anti-Muslim Attacks programme and have established the cross-government Anti-Muslim Hatred group, allowing us to respond department by department to the growing problem of anti-Muslim hatred. I hope that the noble Baroness, Lady Uddin, will welcome these initiatives. We have changed the law to allow councils to continue to hold prayers at the beginning of their meetings should they wish following an attempt by the National Secular Society to have the long-standing practice banned.
I was grateful to my noble friend Lady Brinton for her clarification on the ongoing Plymouth Brethren case and to my noble friend Lady Berridge for sharing her moving account and her expertise in this matter. The noble Lord, Lord Bilimoria, was right to ask what more we could do. I hope that, after his discussions with me, he will see the fact that the Zoroastrian community was represented at the Cenotaph on this Remembrance Sunday as a step in the right direction. The noble Lord, Lord Hameed, quite rightly raised the challenging issue of when faith is distorted and used as a tool for fear and violence. My noble friend Lady Berridge reminded us that this distortion is not confined to any one religion. The noble Baroness, Lady Flather, raised important issues of choice in religion and the choice not to have a religion. I am sure that many noble Lords are, like me, relieved to hear that she is not of the Dawkins brand of atheism.
This Government believe that faith should have a seat at the table in public life. I agree with my noble friend Lady Falkner that this is not a position of privilege but that of a strong contributor to the public debate. Yes, there will be setbacks both in the public debate and the debate within faiths, as the right reverend Prelate alluded to, but the place of faith in the public debate should not be altered as a result. Indeed, my appointment as the first Minister for Faith and Communities—not for spirituality, but for faith and communities—demonstrates the Prime Minister’s commitment to the voice of faith communities being heard at the Cabinet table. The Prime Minister has said that our faith communities make Britain “stronger” and he was right to say that,
“we are a Christian country. And we should not be afraid to say so”.
This Government have held faith receptions at Downing Street for major festivals: Vaisakhi, Eid, Hanukkah and Diwali—and, yes, it was right that this coalition Government introduced the celebration of Easter as well.
When I first set the tone for this Government’s faith agenda in 2010, declaring that we would “do God”, many warned that this was something that a government Minister should not say. Two years on, I am heartened to see that so many Ministers have got behind this agenda, and our actions demonstrate the importance that we attach to the role of religion in British society.
Rwanda
Baroness Warsi Excerpts(11 years, 5 months ago)
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Lord Chidgey
To ask Her Majesty’s Government what assessment they have made of the Amnesty International report Rwanda: shrouded in secrecy.
The Senior Minister of State, Department for Communities and Local Government & Foreign and Commonwealth Office (Baroness Warsi)
My Lords, the UK shares the concerns raised in this Amnesty International report. Our high commissioner in Kigali has raised illegal detentions and key concerns in the report with the Rwandan Government on a number of occasions. He has also regularly requested access to detention centres and, in September, was granted access to the Gikondo transit centre, a facility that has been mentioned in other international human rights reports on illegal detentions.
Lord Chidgey
I thank my noble friend for that response. She will be aware that the Amnesty report documents illegal detention and torture over more than two years while, over the past two days, the Rwandan military has been backing the M23 in its incursions. They have overrun the city of Goma in the Congo. Surely both of these events are serious breaches of a memorandum of understanding that Rwanda signed with the UK just this September, committing it to:
“The principles of good governance … respect for human rights”,
and,
“The promotion of peace and stability in the Great Lakes region”.
In the absence of any signs of compliance with the memorandum of understanding, can my noble friend tell us whether, during our Minister for Africa’s visit to the region—he is there now—we will curb Rwanda’s aid programme forthwith?
Baroness Warsi
My noble friend raised a number of issues, some of which relate to reports that were clearly leaked. It would be inappropriate for me to comment specifically on a leaked report but I can confirm that this Government take those concerns extremely seriously. That is why, among other reasons, the Minister for Africa is in the region. My noble friend will be aware of the United Nations Security Council presidential statement, which was issued only yesterday and deals with specific concerns about the M23 in Goma. I am sure he will also accept that our aid programme in Rwanda is, specifically, to deal with poverty in a country where almost 45% of Rwandans remain in extreme poverty. Real progress has been made since the genocide of 1994 in building Rwanda’s economy. I am sure he will accept that our support to the poorest in that economy is part of that.
Lord Alton of Liverpool
Does the noble Baroness not recall that in September, in reply to a Written Question that I tabled, her noble friend Lady Northover confirmed that some £344 million is being provided in bilateral aid to Rwanda between 2011 and 2015? In that same reply, she said that Rwanda,
“must adhere to strict partnership principles”,—[Official Report, 24/9/12; col. WA284.]
and that the Secretary of State was still considering whether those expectations were being met. Given what the noble Lord, Lord Chidgey, just said about the fall of Goma—there are now 80,000 displaced people and refugees in that area—and what Ban Ki-Moon has said about using aid for leverage, will the Minister say whether we are reconsidering our decision to restore aid in that vast degree to Rwanda and who is arming and paying for the arms of the M23 rebels?
Baroness Warsi
I cannot comment on the last question that the noble Lord raised but, in relation to aid, in 2012-13 we have committed £75 million, of which £29 million is general budget support. The noble Lord will be aware that in July of this year, because of certain concerns that were raised, a £16 million tranche of general budget funding was not given over until September and, at that point, £8 million was given over as general budget support but £8 million was redirected to education and food. The next tranche is due in December and my right honourable friend the Secretary of State for International Development is looking at all these matters.
Baroness Kinnock of Holyhead
My Lords, does the Minister have a view on how the Security Council could accept yesterday that M23 is getting external support but then perversely claim that it lacks evidence? Does she agree that it need look no further than the new, well documented evidence provided by Human Rights Watch on Rwanda’s provision of, for instance, logistical support and sophisticated weaponry to M23?
Baroness Warsi
We were heavily involved in that presidential statement at the United Nations Security Council yesterday. It was important that we raised our concerns, and we raised them. As the noble Baroness will note from that report, the support given to M23 is not entirely clear. Reference was made to it by the United Nations group of experts’ report via a leaked report. It would be inappropriate for me to comment on that leak, but these are matters that we continuously discuss with Rwanda.
The Lord Bishop of Bath and Wells
My Lords, Rwanda: Shrouded in Secrecy paints a bleak picture of arbitrary arrest and torture inside Rwanda. What steps are the Government taking to urge the Rwandan Government to investigate all cases of unlawful detention, enforced disappearance, torture and other ill treatment by the military and to ensure that those responsible are brought to justice?
Baroness Warsi
I can assure the right reverend Prelate that human rights are an important component of the development work we do in Rwanda. The UK recognises that there are serious concerns about human rights in Rwanda, particularly about political rights and freedom of expression, as well as the concerns detailed in the Amnesty International report. We raise these concerns consistently in our discussions with the Rwandan Government at the highest level, and we will continue to do so.
Lord McConnell of Glenscorrodale
My Lords, do the Government acknowledge that in addition to the aid provided to Rwanda, this country is also one of the largest aid contributors to Uganda and is increasing its aid year after year to the Democratic Republic of Congo? That puts the United Kingdom in a unique position with our role in the Security Council and in the European Union to insist that the talks happening today in Kampala produce a long-term regional solution that involves all the countries of the region accepting their responsibility for the situation, not just at the moment in Goma, but the continuing violence over recent years. A regional solution that delivers peace not just for people in North Kivu, but for the rest of the region as well, is essential.
Baroness Warsi
The noble Lord raises important points. He will be aware that the Minister for Africa is visiting Uganda, Rwanda and the DRC. We have strong relationships in the region, not just through our aid programmes, and it is important that we use them to further stability in the region. The noble Lord may not be aware that aid to the Ugandan Government has been temporarily suspended as a result of evidence emerging from an ongoing forensic audit of the Prime Minister’s office.
Lord Avebury
Considering that with 20,000 armed men and a budget of $1.4 million MONUSCO has been unable to protect the civilians of Goma from the aggression of M23, does the Minister think that it is time to consider more than just reviewing the mandate of MONUSCO? Has she seen the French proposals to give MONUSCO an aggressive capability? Will she discuss that with it to see whether we could support it in the Security Council accordingly?
Baroness Warsi
The MONUSCO mandate, as the noble Lord is aware, is specifically to protect civilians. They do not have, as he says, a more aggressive mandate at this stage but I will take what he has said on board and feed it back.
Bahrain
Baroness Warsi Excerpts(11 years, 5 months ago)
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Lord Avebury
To ask Her Majesty’s Government what representations they will make to the Government of Bahrain regarding the deprivation of citizenship imposed on 31 persons on 7 November 2012.
The Senior Minister of State, Department for Communities and Local Government & Foreign and Commonwealth Office (Baroness Warsi)
My Lords, we have told the Bahraini Government that revoking citizenship, which leaves individuals stateless, is a negative step and, ultimately, a barrier towards reconciliation. I understand that those affected have the right of appeal, but we regularly express our concerns about human rights abuses in Bahrain.
Lord Avebury
My Lords, I noticed that my right honourable friend the Foreign Secretary had been cosying up to one of the hereditary oligarchs of a regime that regularly kills, tortures and arbitrarily imprisons any of its opponents, and has now taken to depriving them of their citizenship. Would my noble friend agree to meet me with brothers, Jalal and Jawad Fairooz, former MPs of the al-Wefaq Party, who were deprived of their citizenship and are now stranded in London without visible means of support, without any citizenship, and separated permanently—as far as I can see—from their families in Bahrain? Will she also bear in mind that, if you are going to have a dialogue that will solve the constitutional problems of Bahrain, it can be done only if you free the political prisoners who are the leaders of the opposition and who are at present incarcerated for very long periods in prison?
Baroness Warsi
My Lords, I understand that officials from the Foreign and Commonwealth Office are in touch with, and have had some contact with, the two specific cases to which my noble friend refers. I know that he has strong views in relation to this matter, but I would take exception to the description given to my right honourable friend the Foreign Secretary. Indeed, earlier this week I myself met with Shaikh Khalid bin Ahmed al-Khalifa, who is the Foreign Minister, and indeed the individual to which my noble friend refers. It was a robust and frank exchange, and a conversation in which human rights were openly and frankly discussed.
Lord Soley
We are all aware of the influence of Iran in this area, but how much have we discussed with the Bahraini authorities the difficulties that they face as a result of the two branches of Islam—Shia and Sunni—and involving that in the constitutional discussions that are taking place? It is very important, and there are ways of addressing it. Have they discussed it? I should declare an interest as the chairman of the Good Governance Foundation, which operates in the region.
Baroness Warsi
Certainly, we have these specific discussions regularly around freedom of religion. I spoke with the Foreign Minister when he was here this week specifically about that issue, and we had a lengthy conversation about the Shia-Sunni dynamic in Bahrain. We also spoke about historic coexistence between these two theologies within Islam. Indeed, we had a lengthy conversation about my own history when I explained to him that I was half-Sunni and half-Shia.
Lord Luce
While acknowledging the importance of the Question asked by the noble Lord, Lord Avebury, would the Minister give some credit to the Government of Bahrain for setting up last year a very distinguished international commission on human rights, which at the end of the year made over 170 recommendations, of which the Government have so far decided to implement 140? Should we not give some credit to the Government of Bahrain for that?
Baroness Warsi
The noble Lord makes an important point. Indeed, today is the anniversary of the publication of those first ambitions set out in the Bahrain Independent Commission of Inquiry. He is right when he says that 143 of the 176 recommendations were accepted—and, indeed, a further 13 were partially accepted. Bahrain is trying to make progress on these matters, and we are supporting it in doing that.
Baroness Uddin
My Lords, given her recent discussion with the Foreign Minister, would the Minister tell the House what progress has been made, in her assessment, between the Bahrain Government and opposition parties? In asking this question I declare my interest as a member of the UK-Bahrain All-Party Parliamentary Group. Alongside the discussion that the noble Lord, Lord Avebury, is asking her to host, would she also engage with the all-party group?
Baroness Warsi
An amount of progress has been made, both politically and in relation to governance. Some underlying concerns, of course, need to be addressed before progress can be made politically. Much of that has been set out in the Bahrain Independent Commission of Inquiry. I know that progress has been made on a special investigations unit, for example, which looks into the particular disturbances that led to the current concerns. Some progress has also been made in relation to constitutional amendments that will form the basis of reconciliation.
Baroness Falkner of Margravine
My Lords, does my noble friend accept that while some of the recommendations of the Bassiouni commission have indeed been accepted and enforced, the principal recommendation—which was about reconciliation and talks to resolve the differences between the two sides—rested on there being an opposition with whom to have talks about reconciliation? When so many members of that opposition might have been freed but then deprived of their citizenship and are, in other words, stateless, it is impossible to have discussions with them. What are the Government doing to speak directly to the Prime Minister, rather than the Foreign Minister, of Bahrain to ask that the revocation of these peoples’ citizenship be readdressed?
Baroness Warsi
We have discussions at all levels in relation to this matter, including with the Prime Minister. The specific issue regarding the revocation of citizenship has been raised and our concerns have been registered. There is a right of appeal. We are pressing the Bahraini Government to consider these matters seriously during that right of appeal.
Lord Triesman
My Lords, I share the concerns expressed in the central proposition of the previous question. There has been progress but, on the most fundamental issues, the progress is woeful. It is against a background of a grim record and, if anything, Bahrain’s record is getting worse, rather than better. We have called for a dialogue but, for reasons that I understand, that dialogue has been limited. I noted that, at the end of October, the United States Navy Fifth Fleet was anchored off Bahrain, not because I think it intended to intervene but as a show of support. Can the Minister tell us whether a co-operating force of the United Kingdom and the United States—a diplomatic force, not a military one—might, if it took a sufficiently firm and determined view, have more impact than all of us trying to do it separately?
Baroness Warsi
That is something that I will take back. However, I can assure the noble Lord on our bilateral relationship. Earlier this week we set up a joint working group and political and diplomatic reform and assistance with human rights are central to it. We hope that we can use that working group as the basis for some of these more serious discussions.
International Law: Use of Drones
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Baroness Falkner of Margravine
To ask Her Majesty’s Government what is their assessment of the legal and diplomatic implications of the use of drones across national boundaries.
The Senior Minister of State, Department for Communities and Local Government & Foreign and Commonwealth Office (Baroness Warsi)
My Lords, the British Government’s position is that the use of unmanned aerial vehicles against targets is a matter for the states involved. We expect all concerned to act in accordance with international law, including taking all feasible precautions to avoid civilian casualties when conducting military operations.
Baroness Falkner of Margravine
I thank my noble friend for that reply. She will be aware that international human rights law permits the intentional use of lethal force only when necessary to protect against a threat to life and where there are no other means, such as capture, available. Targeted killings are not lawful as the action has to be strictly necessary and proportionate. Given that the use of armed drones engages four major UN conventions as well as Article 51 of the UN charter, will she tell the House what measures the UK is taking to abide by international law and to encourage allies, such as the United States, to do the same?
Baroness Warsi
In all our discussions when these matters are raised, we expect all states concerned to act in accordance with international law and to take all feasible precautions to avoid civilian casualties. We understand that the UN special rapporteur for human rights and countering terrorism intends to give consideration to these issues of drone strikes in a future report to the UN General Assembly.
Lord Anderson of Swansea
The use of drones may be effective or ineffective, productive or counterproductive, but is there any difference in principle between the use of drones and the use in armed conflict of rockets or artillery across national frontiers?
Baroness Warsi
My Lords, I can comment only upon the actions of the United Kingdom and I assure the noble Lord that the Government are mindful of all their obligations under international law when they engage in military activity.
Lord Hamilton of Epsom
My Lords, does my noble friend accept that if a drone can remain poised for some hours above a target, it is less likely to create collateral damage than almost any other form of shelling, or the missiles to which the noble Lord referred, or any other form of trying to kill people?
Baroness Warsi
My noble friend is probably more of an expert on these matters than I am. I cannot answer that question; I am not familiar enough with the practice of how drones would operate over lengthy periods.
The Lord Bishop of Bath and Wells
My Lords, in the light of the unknown number of civilian casualties as a result of drone attacks in Pakistan, when no armed conflict has been declared and the United States is not at war, does the Minister agree that such attacks are illegal under international humanitarian law and that there is now a need for an enhanced arms limitation treaty?
Baroness Warsi
The right reverend Prelate raises an important point. I can confirm to the House that the UK has not used armed drones against targets in Pakistan. It is a matter for individual states engaged in those practices to discuss those matters.
Lord Judd
Does the Minister not agree that there is great urgency in this situation? There is a real danger that we could slip into an age of political assassination, targeted killing and the condoning of extra-judicial murder. Is there not also a danger that, if this trend continues without careful international deliberation about its implications, we could slip into an age in which war becomes an easier management option as distinct from a really grave step to take after everything else has been tried?
Baroness Warsi
The noble Lord is right to raise the matter; this is an important issue and an important debate. In fact, it was on the front page of the Times today and has been on the front pages of many of our newspapers over time. He will be aware of parliamentary interest in both this House and the other place. In relation to the UK’s conduct, specifically in Pakistan, I can confirm that we do not use armed drones against targets there. We do use unmanned air systems—drones—in Afghanistan, predominantly for surveillance and recognisance tasks.
Lord Alderdice
My Lords, in addition to the method of technology described already, we now have the possibility of attacks not only by land, sea, air and space but in cyberspace. This is highly complex and had the Stuxnet attack on Iran taken place in any of the other four media, it would have been regarded as a declaration of war. It is no longer clear what a declaration of war amounts to when it is in cyberspace. Will my noble friend the Minister describe what work the Government are doing legally and diplomatically to clarify declarations of war in this new medium?
Baroness Warsi
I am not sure what specific work is ongoing in relation to that, but I can write to the noble Lord to confirm. Of course this is a highly difficult issue; there are emotions and views on both sides of this argument. However, using unmanned air systems in Afghanistan provides vital intelligence for us in support of our forces on the ground.
Lord Triesman
My Lords, I wholly understand the Minister making the point that we have not used our armed drones in Pakistan or in many other settings. She plainly cannot be pressed for whether we believe it was legal or not because, on that basis, it is legal. Can she tell the House what will be the character of the evidence that we might give to the UN special rapporteur? Will it be made available to the House through the Library, so that we can get a full appreciation of the circumstances in which we use drones and make an assessment for ourselves?
Baroness Warsi
The noble Lord will be aware that there is an ongoing legal matter—a judicial review—in relation to some of the questions that he raises. In relation to the specific evidence and discussions that we will be having with the special rapporteur, I will certainly consider that and, if appropriate, report back to the House.
Middle East: Gaza and Syria
Baroness Warsi Excerpts(11 years, 5 months ago)
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The Senior Minister of State, Department for Communities and Local Government & Foreign and Commonwealth Office (Baroness Warsi)
My Lords, with the leave of the House, I will repeat a Statement made by my right honourable friend the Foreign Secretary earlier in the other place. The Statement is as follows:
“Mr Speaker, with permission, I will make a Statement on Gaza, the Middle East peace process and Syria.
The whole House will be united in concern both at the intolerable situation for the residents of southern Israel, and at the grave loss of life and humanitarian suffering in Gaza, including the particular impact on children.
On 14 November, the Israeli Defence Forces began air strikes against the Gaza Strip in response to a sharp increase in rocket fire. Hamas and other militant groups responded with rocket fire, although these attacks have been reduced in the past two days. As of today, three Israeli citizens have been killed, including one woman and one child, and at least 109 Palestinians have been killed, including 11 women and 26 children.
Although we have made it clear that Hamas bears principal responsibility for the start of the current crisis, we are also clear that all sides have responsibilities. We quickly called on Israel to seek every opportunity to de-escalate its military response and to observe international humanitarian law and avoid civilian casualties. At the meeting I attended in Brussels yesterday, EU Foreign Ministers condemned the rocket attacks on Israel and called for an urgent de-escalation and cessation of hostilities. We have also warned that a ground invasion of Gaza could lengthen the conflict, sharply increase civilian casualties, and erode international support for Israel’s position.
We wish to see an agreed ceasefire that stops the rocket attacks against Israel and ends Israeli military operations. Efforts to agree a ceasefire are continuing as I speak, and the United Nations Security Council will continue discussions on the situation today. More open access in and out of Gaza is part of any longer term solution. We pay tribute to the efforts of the Egyptian Government and the United Nations Secretary-General to secure an agreed ceasefire, and have supported these efforts over the past few days. I discussed these with my European colleagues yesterday, and with the Egyptian, Israeli and Turkish Foreign Ministers over the weekend, as my right honourable friend the Prime Minister did with Prime Minister Netanyahu and President Morsi. My honourable friend the Member for North East Bedfordshire, the Under-Secretary of State, is in Ramallah today, where he will meet President Abbas, after visiting southern Israel yesterday.
There is no military solution to the crisis in Gaza or to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. Peace becomes harder to achieve with each military confrontation, each loss of life, and the creation of facts on the ground. The only way to give the Palestinian people the state that they need and deserve and the Israeli people the security and peace they are entitled to, is through a negotiated two-state solution, and time for this is now running out. This requires Israelis and Palestinians to return to negotiations, Israel to stop illegal settlement building, Palestinian factions to reconcile with each other and the international community, led by the United States and supported by European nations, to make a huge effort to push the peace process forward as a matter of urgency.
While there is any chance of achieving a return to talks in the coming months, we continue to advise President Abbas against attempts to win Palestinian observer state status at the United Nations through a vote in the UN General Assembly. We judge that this would make it harder to secure a return to negotiations and could have very serious consequences for the Palestinian authorities.
Our collective goal must be a two-state solution based on 1967 borders with agreed land swaps, Jerusalem as the capital of both states, and a just settlement for refugees. So while we support Palestinian aspirations and understand the pressures on President Abbas, we urge him to lead the Palestinians into negotiations and not to risk paralysing the process. But we also urge Israel, equally, to make every effort to restart negotiations before the window for a two-state solution closes altogether.
The urgency is underlined by the conflict in Syria. The whole House will join me in condemning the barbaric violence by the Assad regime, which continues its aerial warfare against Aleppo, Homs and Damascus itself. Thirty thousand people have died already, and more than 100 are still being killed each day. Countless homes, clinics, hospitals and essential infrastructure such as water and sanitation systems have been destroyed or severely damaged. Between 1 million and 3 million people have been displaced from their homes. There are appalling reports of rape and sexual violence by government forces and militia, and as a form of torture in regime detention centres, which the United Nations Human Rights Council-mandated Commission of Inquiry has said could be prosecuted as crimes against humanity. There are now well over 400,000 refugees in neighbouring countries. The impact on young Syrians is particularly acute, since 50% of all Syrian internally displaced people and refugees are children.
We are increasing our humanitarian assistance as the crisis grows and winter approaches, and our appeals to other members of the international community to give far more to UN relief efforts. Our £53.5 million in humanitarian assistance so far includes £9.7 million to the World Food Programme to feed 80,000 people inside Syria each month; £4 million to the UN Refugee Agency to provide shelter and other basic relief items; and £9.7 million to other relief agencies for medical services and supplies, food parcels, water and sanitation services, distribution of blankets, and hygiene kits. In neighbouring countries, we have given £10 million to the UN Refugee Agency to provide shelter, protection, registration, and water and sanitation services to refugees; £5 million to the World Food Programme to feed 20,000 refugees; and £6 million to UNICEF to provide education and trauma support for children, and water and sanitation services for refugees. In Cairo last week, I called on other countries to increase their contribution to the relief effort, which the UN has described recently as “critically underfunded”.
However, what is urgently needed is a political transition to a new and legitimate leadership that reflects the will of the Syrian people and that can end the violence and begin to rebuild the country with regional and international support. On 11 November there was a major breakthrough in Doha, with the establishment of the National Coalition of Syrian Revolutionary and Opposition Forces, which has been welcomed by many Syrians.
Last Friday, I met the president and two of the vice-presidents of the national council on their first visit to Europe. I sought assurances from them in three areas. First, I urged them to commit themselves to developing their political structures, widening their support among all sections of Syrian society, and agreeing a detailed political transition plan for Syria. Secondly, I encouraged them to use the next Friends of Syria meeting, which we hope will be held in Morocco next month, to set out a plan for Syria’s future in detail. Thirdly, I urged them to show a clear commitment to human rights and international humanitarian law, including the protection of all religious communities and unfettered and safe access for humanitarian agencies.
In response, the national coalition’s leaders stressed their determination to build on the Doha agreement and to leave the door open to other opposition groups to join them. They spoke of their intention to win the trust of Syrians from all communities, to be a moderate political force committed to democracy, and not to repeat the abuses of the Assad regime. They told me that their priority was protecting the civilian population against attack and focusing on achieving a political transition. It would be for the people of Syria, they told me, to approve a future government. These are important and encouraging statements by the national coalition. It has much to do to win the support of the Syrian people and co-ordinate opposition efforts more effectively, but it is strongly in the interests of Syria, of the wider region and of the United Kingdom that we support it and deny space to extremist groups.
On the basis of the assurances I received and my consultation with European partners yesterday, Her Majesty’s Government have decided to recognise the National Coalition of Syrian Revolutionary and Opposition Forces as the sole legitimate representative of the Syrian people. As the president of the national coalition said to me on Friday, recognition imposes responsibilities on the coalition, and we will continue to press it to uphold its commitments.
I can also announce a significant increase in practical support for the Syrian opposition by the United Kingdom. First, we will invite the coalition to appoint a political representative to the UK, and we will offer support to it as it sets up its political and humanitarian structures. Secondly, we will provide a £1 million package of communications support, which could, for instance, include mobile internet hubs and satellite phones to improve the coalition’s ability to communicate inside Syria. Thirdly, we will urgently deploy a stabilisation response team to the region to work with the coalition to develop its plan to meet people’s basic needs in opposition-held areas. The team will draw up recommendations for areas for further UK assistance.
Fourthly, and separately, my right honourable friend the Secretary of State for International Development is looking at increasing our assistance to Syrians affected by the conflict. This could include increasing our humanitarian medical assistance for wounded Syrian civilians who need access to treatment by providing UK funding for hospitals and mobile clinics, and training for health workers. We intend to launch new work to build on our existing work to support victims of sexual violence in Syria.
This new package of UK support amounts to around £2 million of immediate commitments, and we will look to expand this considerably in the coming months. This comes on top of the training that we have already provided for citizen journalists, human rights advocates, doctors and Syrian activists, and the generators, communications equipment and water purification kits for unarmed opposition groups and civil society organisations that I announced during the summer.
Alongside that increased political and practical support, we are pressing the EU to increase its support to civil society in Syria, and I raised this at the Foreign Affairs Council yesterday. We will continue to increase the pressure on Assad and those who support him through EU sanctions, including seeking accountability through the United Nations commission of inquiry process.
We also expect there to be discussions in NATO in the coming days about supporting the security of Turkey, and we will continue to work with all of Syria’s neighbours to help them mitigate the effects of the crisis. We will step up our support for political transition and our planning for the day after Assad.
Finally, we will continue to support the work of the UN and Arab League envoy Lakhdar Brahimi, and renew our efforts to persuade Russia and China to work with us at the United Nations Security Council. I will take every opportunity to urge my Russian and Chinese colleagues to support a political and diplomatic solution to the conflict in Syria. Without such a solution, everything that they and we most fear is coming closer, including ever greater loss of life, instability in neighbouring countries and an opportunity for extremists to pursue their own ends.
The basis for such a political settlement is clear. A credible alternative to the Assad regime is emerging that has the growing support of the Arab League, the European Union, the United States and an increasing number of other countries, and we have an agreed basis for a transition in the form of the Geneva communiqué, which all permanent members of the United Nations Security Council signed up to in June. In the absence of that political and diplomatic solution, we will not rule out any option in accordance with international law that might save innocent lives in Syria and prevent the destabilisation of a region that remains critical to the security of the United Kingdom and the peace of the whole world”.
My Lords, that concludes the Statement.
Baroness Warsi
My Lords, first, I apologise on a personal level. Unfortunately I suffer from migraines which, among other things, impair my speech. I apologise in advance if I do not sound completely coherent today.
The noble Lord makes some very important points and there are very few with which I would disagree. He says that my right honourable friend the Foreign Secretary and I are optimistic about what can be achieved in relation to the current crisis; I would argue that we have no option. For too long the international community has failed in relation to the Middle East peace process and our overriding objective now is to ensure that we secure an agreed ceasefire on both sides and, in the mean time, to avoid civilian casualties. We must also call for both sides to abide by international and humanitarian law while the crisis continues.
I can assure noble Lords that, almost on an hour-by-hour basis, we are engaged with discussions about the region. The Prime Minister has spoken with the Prime Minister of Israel and with President Morsi of Egypt, which is playing an important and constructive role in this matter. My right honourable friend the Foreign Secretary is in touch with his opposite interlocutors and the Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, the Minister responsible for the Middle East, is in the region. We engaged with our EU colleagues at the Foreign Affairs Committee yesterday and all efforts are being made to try to achieve a ceasefire. There is some hope but we cannot say what the outcome of those ongoing discussions will be; we are however hopeful and optimistic at this stage.
We have also made it absolutely clear that an escalation of this matter, a ground invasion, is not the way forward. Huge international condemnation would follow. The noble Lord is right, however, when he asks where the peace process will be taken thereafter. Let me assure him that no decision has been made about how the United Kingdom would vote at the General Assembly. We recognise the pressure that President Abbas is under but we are trying to encourage him and all sides to continue to give a negotiated peace agreement another opportunity. We are running out of time; many Ministers have stood at this Dispatch Box and said that this is a vital moment. Let me say, this is a vital moment. I think we have a year, the next year, to make real progress on this matter. It is why we are stressing to our colleagues in the United States that they must take a leading role in this and why we are making all efforts to ensure this matter is raised in their minds.
On Syria, it was right for us to increase our support to the opposition as it became more coherent. Noble Lords would accept, I think, that our support has been on a stepped basis as we have engaged and encouraged the various factions within the opposition to come together. We now have some specific assurances and it is upon those assurances that we can give the more specific support.
Embargo and licensing of arms is an ongoing matter. We will keep under constant review what we can and cannot give and sell to nations around the world. Resourcing has to be there and I hope the noble Lord will accept from what I said in my opening statement that this is the case. We have ensured that we are playing our part but we are encouraging the wider community to play its part also. It is important, for financial and political reasons, that there is broad-based resourcing and we are encouraging other nations to play their part.
My right honourable friend the Prime Minister made clear his views on how the United Nations Security Council had failed Syria. I do not think he could have been any clearer in the words that he used at his address to the General Assembly. We are using all opportunities during discussions with Russia and China; indeed my own discussions with the Russian ambassador were very much focused on movement that we hope they can accept over time.
Baroness Ramsay of Cartvale
My Lords, does the Minister agree that Israel has the right to defend its citizens from rocket attacks from Gaza and to try to destroy Hamas’s arsenals? Does she further agree that the international community must now focus on de-escalation and finding a sustainable ceasefire—with emphasis on “sustainable”—because a temporary ceasefire will do no one much good; on finding a political solution to the present Gaza crisis; and on reviving the Middle East peace process, which has been allowed to go dormant but is not dead? Does the Minister agree that the peace process is still the best show in town and the only hope for achieving a two-state solution, which is surely the answer to a lot of the problems?
Baroness Warsi
The reality check for the region is in the matter raised by the noble Baroness—that is, that the window of opportunity for a two-state solution is quickly closing. We are stressing that in our discussions with both Israel and the Palestinian Authority. It is in their interests, as it is in ours, for there to be a negotiated solution. We are also stressing that in our discussions with the United States. That is why we think that, at this stage, it would be better to encourage the Palestinian authorities to move down the path of a settled solution as opposed to a vote. We have also made it clear that we have not made a decision in relation to that vote, and whatever decisions are taken are not permanent decisions.
Baroness Falkner of Margravine
My Lords, I am slightly surprised at the tone of the Statement. It seems to imply that the United Kingdom Government have ruled out support for a UN vote and yet, on the same hand, the noble Baroness said that she thinks there is only about a year left in the peace process. Does that mean that if the Palestinians come to us at the end of a year and ask for our support, we will give them a positive assurance that we will support them? Hoping against hope for talks to result in a peace process may well be overoptimistic. On Syria, we heard on 15 November that the Security Council was looking at options and I notice that a stabilising response team is now going to be deployed to the region. Can the noble Baroness assure the House that if further materiel is given to the Syrian coalition forces, all safeguards will be put in place to ensure that it does not get into the wrong hands?
Baroness Warsi
My Lords, yes, I can absolutely give my noble friend an assurance on the second part of her question: these matters are being looked at extremely carefully. That is why we have a stepped approach in relation to support. I can assure my noble friend that these are ongoing discussions. The immediate crisis is at the forefront of our minds and it must be dealt with now. I can assure her that the decision on the United Nations General Assembly vote has not been taken. We are using our relationships and all efforts to make sure that the ultimate aim of a negotiated two-state solution is achieved, and we keep reminding people of the best way of achieving that.
Lord Hannay of Chiswick
My Lords, I thank the Minister for her repeated assurances that no decision has been taken about the vote in the General Assembly on the status of Palestine. However, does she not recognise that the way in which the Statement was cast was highly negative in that effect and that the reference to the possibility that a voting of a resolution might paralyse the peace process is, frankly, a travesty? The peace process is paralysed by the position of the Prime Minister of Israel, who has been refusing to enter negotiations with President Abbas for a very long time. The idea that some action of the United Nations—which would, in any case, not involve recognising Palestine as a member of the United Nations but would be an intermediate status—could not possibly be said therefore to paralyse something that is already paralysed. Does she not further recognise that the consequences of Britain’s negative vote in those circumstances could be quite serious and would be very damaging to the position of President Abbas, who is already in great enough difficulties as it is?
Baroness Warsi
That is exactly why it is important for these Statements to be repeated in this House. It is important that the views of this House are taken on board. I and officials who are listening will make sure that this is taken back. We make it very clear in all our discussions with Israel that time is running out for a negotiated two-state solution. We have made it clear that of course they have to make progress in relation to the building of illegal settlements and in getting back to the negotiating table. As I said in the Statement, we use the same approach in relation to President Abbas. We encourage him to take the necessary steps to ensure that this matter is resolved through negotiation.
Lord Judd
My Lords, the missiles into Israel are wrong and they are totally counterproductive. That cannot be said too strongly. But the settlements, with all their security arrangements, roadblocks and the rest, are wrong and totally counterproductive in the irritation and humiliation that they cause every day to ordinary Palestinian people. So, also, was the prolonged blockade that was undermining the whole economic, educational and health infrastructure of Gaza.
Both sides have been strengthening the intransigent and extremist arguments on either side. As friends of both, we cannot overemphasise the counterproductivity too strongly. But will the Minister agree that any lasting peace has to belong to the people of the region and cannot be imposed? In that sense, talks must be as inclusive as possible. If they are not inclusive—as we learnt in Northern Ireland, it is a matter of talking to people with whom it is not very comfortable to talk—the danger again is that one is strengthening the extremists and the militants.
Baroness Warsi
The noble Lord raises some important points. I think he would agree that success in the challenge of getting to the negotiating table those who do not even accept the basic principles laid out by the Quartet is probably much further away. But the challenge we have at the moment is that we are finding it difficult to engage those who do abide by the Quartet principles. Therefore, what is needed more than ever is political will on the part of those who, as the noble Lord says, consider themselves to be friends of both the Palestinians and the Israelis. That political opportunity is now: the United States has had its elections and the President is in his second term; and Israel is in election mode, with its elections being concluded by early next year. This provides an opportunity when, as I have said many times now, the window of opportunity is shrinking.
The Lord Bishop of Bath and Wells
My Lords, I welcome the Statement from the Minister today. The experience of peacemakers in all situations is that there are certain defining moments. From what she has said, she believes that there have been a number of defining moments in these two conflicts—in Israel/Palestine and Syria. For a peace process to be effective, it has to be managed on a multilayered level, not just from a political perspective but from a community perspective as well. In what ways can Her Majesty's Government encourage and nurture that process both in Syria and in Israel/Palestine to build that kind of construct so that there can be, as it were, a cohesive approach to this peacemaking task?
Baroness Warsi
The situation is slightly different in relation to the two areas. In Syria, in terms of the immediate violence, we have been dealing with a crisis over a lengthy period. However, as I said in my Statement, we have through the DfID programme been funding a number of individuals including journalists and human rights activists who are logging and recording information. If you send out a clear message that there will not be a culture of impunity in these matters, that starts to build the reconciliation process.
On Israel, Gaza and the West Bank, there are a number of programmes of which I am sure the right reverend Prelate will be aware. Some are based on religious grounds, where religious leaders have come together to build peace, and some are being done through educational projects and through the voluntary and charity sector. I had the privilege of seeing a sports project when I visited. I agree that peace cannot just be imposed from the top down; it has also to be built from the bottom up. However, in a situation such as this, I fundamentally believe that real progress will be made when we start showing real political will.
Baroness Warsi
I know that my noble friend works tirelessly for the region and is deeply knowledgeable on the area. The humanitarian situation is extremely fragile, as she is aware, and has been exacerbated by events of recent days. Our assessment is that there is not at this stage a humanitarian crisis, because aid continues to flow from Egypt through the Rafah crossing and, intermittently, from Israel. A convoy of medical supplies managed to get to Gaza on Sunday, and food distribution is functioning—we understand that there is probably about 30 days’ worth of food stock—but I absolutely take my noble friend’s point on the base from which we started.
Baroness Symons of Vernham Dean
My Lords, the Minister’s Statement was very full and I am sure that the whole House thanks her for that. I should also like to thank her right honourable friend Mr Alistair Burt for all the work that he is doing—I think that he is an excellent Minister for the Middle East.
My noble friend Lord Triesman asked whether there is a Middle East peace process and the noble Lord, Lord Hannay, emphasised that the process is in effect paralysed—a dreadful word to use but, alas, an accurate one at the moment. Does the Minister really believe that a two-state solution is still possible? She said that time was running out; she has given it a year. Yet Israeli settlements continue to be built and, on the other hand, there is a hopelessly split leadership in Palestine between Fatah and Hamas. The demographics in Palestine tell their own story about the Palestinians simply waiting for time to deliver the solution that they want.
Can the Minister also tell us what more we can do to help address Syrian violence when the United Nations is hopelessly split on what is going on in Syria? Syria is a client state of Russia. We have to face up to that and the United Nations process seems, again, to have become paralysed. This weekend in the United States, all the newspapers were talking about war—a terrible word to use. Will the Minister please continue to give us briefings in this House? In this time of acute danger, will she arrange for regular briefings—they need not necessarily be on the Floor of the House—so that those of us who are interested in these issues can be fully updated?
Baroness Warsi
I can of course ensure that that briefing happens, whether it is from me or the specific Minister in charge. It is absolutely right that noble Lords, many of whom have so much experience and expertise in this matter, are kept up to date and that we hear their views. I do not think that there is any option other than still to have hope and a commitment to the two-state solution, which is the only way in which we can give the Palestinian people the state that they need and deserve and the Israeli people the security and peace that have eluded that region for so long. The priority is now for the United States to lead a major push to restart negotiations, and we have made this clear to the Obama Administration. It appears to be the right time for a newly elected President in a second term to take this initiative. That offers the best opportunity of progress towards the ultimate goal of a two-state solution. I am optimistic but also realistic so, even with that optimism, I have said that time is running out.
Lord Elystan-Morgan
My Lords, I congratulate Her Majesty’s Government on their recognition of the coalition Opposition in Syria. It is an act of wise diplomacy, entirely in kilter with the most basic rules of public international law. Can the Minister tell the House whether there are prospects of other countries, particularly other members of the Security Council, taking the same role? Am I right in thinking that up until now the only other member of the Security Council to have recognised this regime is France?
Baroness Warsi
These discussions are ongoing. I know that there are specific discussions with a number of states, including the United States, on how progress can be made. It is up to individual nations to go through that process but what has been important in recent weeks is the way in which the various opposition forces have managed to come together to form some sort of coherence as to initial progress and what can be done in the immediate future. It was right that while we built that relationship and before we formally recognised it, we sought specific assurances in this House. Many noble Lords have raised concerns about human rights abuses that have been committed in Syria on all sides. If Her Majesty’s Government are to be engaged with a recognised Opposition, it is right that they seek some specific assurances beforehand.
Lord Palmer of Childs Hill
My Lords, I thank my noble friend for the Statement that she read. I have only one small point and I will not take too long to make it. Can the Government not look on this disastrous situation as an opportunity? Opportunities come out of disasters and this is an opportunity to get not only the Americans to act, as the Minister suggested, but the Arab League. There was an Arab League initiative to bring both parties to the negotiating table without any preconditions whatever. The noble Lord, Lord Hannay, said it was Prime Minister Netanyahu who has refused to come to the negotiating table. Some of us would disagree with that. Let us put it to the test by getting the Americans and the Arab League to get people to come to the negotiating table now, to talk about not truces and ceasefires but a durable situation where there is a genuine cessation of hostilities.
Baroness Warsi
The noble Lord raises an important point. There is a famous saying in Urdu which loosely translates as, “It rarely rains when the fires are raging”. To try to reach final agreement on these matters when there is a crisis is difficult. It is important to have the agreed ceasefire. Foreign Ministers from the Arab League have been meeting in the region. Egypt and Turkey have been playing an extremely important role in trying to negotiate that. As part of that initial discussion to resolve the current crisis, discussions are ongoing in relation to a long-term solution.
Lord Anderson of Swansea
My Lords, part of any ceasefire agreement will surely include international monitoring to ensure compliance. Are we and our allies ready, if the call comes, to comply with military personnel to do just that, remembering that Israel will be very cautious because of its experiences of UNIFIL in Lebanon and the time when it left Gaza, with its effect on that frontier? On Syria, how can we properly call the coalition legitimate when it has been subject to no election to ensure its legitimacy? We are apparently prepared to receive a political representative, whereas France calls that representative an ambassador. Why the difference?
Baroness Warsi
In relation to the noble Lord’s suggestion about observers, we will respond to that situation as and when it arises. In relation to recognition, I think he would accept that it would be impossible to expect the Syrian opposition factions to be holding elections in Syria at the moment and to try to obtain legitimacy through the ballot box. We are trying to work with the various groups that have come forward in setting their own priorities. As they themselves say, this is a transitional council. Eventually, it is for the people of Syria to decide their future Government.
EU: UK Balance of Trade
Baroness Warsi Excerpts(11 years, 6 months ago)
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Lord Spicer
To ask Her Majesty’s Government what is their estimate of the United Kingdom’s balance of trade with the European Union, once shipments in transit through the ports of Antwerp and Rotterdam to non-European Union destinations are excluded.
The Senior Minister of State, Department for Communities and Local Government & Foreign and Commonwealth Office (Baroness Warsi)
My Lords, in 2011 the UK’s trade in goods with the EU was in deficit by around £43 billion, while in relation to services UK trade was in surplus by around £16 billion, so the overall deficit was around £28 billion. I am unable to provide data excluding shipments in and out of Antwerp because under international guidelines firms are required only to state the final destinations of the goods they are exporting. Asking businesses to collect the detail of the journeys that goods take en route to their final destinations would significantly increase administrative burdens and hence push up costs.
Lord Spicer
That Answer confirms the fact that this country runs a trade deficit with the continent of Europe. To that extent, our membership of the European Union is of greater value to it than it is to us. Will that not considerably strengthen our bargaining position when we come to renegotiate the treaty of Rome?
Baroness Warsi
My Lords, I think that there are a number of assumptions in my noble friend’s question. I know that he has devoted many years to this subject, but there is an assumption that trade deficits are in themselves bad. We run trade deficits with some countries and trade surpluses with others. Running trade deficits and trade surpluses is the basis of free markets. I am sure that my noble friend would support that. On negotiations, I would say that there are many benefits to being a member of the European Union, so simply to assess the strength of that relationship on the basis of our trade figures is not the correct way forward.
Baroness Falkner of Margravine
My Lords, does my noble friend agree that, irrespective of how you interpret the data, which are contested, according to the Office for National Statistics, since the 1980s the UK’s bilateral trade with EU member states has more than trebled, while according to UKTI and the UN, the UK is the number one destination for inward investment? Those are all things that we should be extremely proud of in terms of our relations with EU member states.
Baroness Warsi
My noble friend makes an important point and perhaps I may add to her statistics. Membership of the European Union gives us access to a market of more than 500 million consumers and more than 45% of UK exports are to the European Union. The point made about foreign direct investment is an important one. In 2011 the UK attracted a fifth of all foreign direct investment projects in Europe and half of all the European headquarters of non-EU firms are based in the United Kingdom.
The Duke of Montrose
My Lords, I declare an interest as a farmer. Is my noble friend aware that our balance in food trade with the EU in 2011 was a deficit of £13.6 billion?
Baroness Warsi
I was not aware of those specific issues in relation to food trade. However, I go back to the general point. There will be some areas, predominantly in goods, where we run a deficit but there are other areas, in which we are very good, such as services, where we run a surplus.
Lord Dykes
Does my noble friend agree that although the United Kingdom has a physical trade deficit with most advanced countries in the world, we make up for that in considerable financial services?
Baroness Warsi
I do agree. The basis of the free market is that economies focus on those things that they are best at. It would be unusual for us to produce everything if it was not competitive for us to do so. We produce those goods and services in which we are competitive and for which we have a reputation around the world. We must continue to focus on those.
Lord Elton
My Lords, it is a mistake to value or devalue Europe on the grounds of finances alone. Is it not the case that the European Community has the opportunity to have a preponderant voice in international affairs? As the high representative is a Member of this House, would it not be a good thing if occasionally we could hear what positions she takes on behalf of Europe?
Baroness Warsi
The noble Baroness is on a leave of absence, and I think everybody in this House would agree that she does an extremely valuable job. It is true that the relationship extends far beyond just the trade relationship. I am sure my noble friend would agree, as would many noble Lords, that it is a relationship on which we can exert influence, and one that I and many in this House believe needs rebalancing.
Lord Dubs
My Lords, does the Minister agree that although it is very advantageous for us to be a member of the European Union, it is a positive advantage that we are not a member of the euro. Is it not time the Government acknowledged that Gordon Brown deserves a lot of credit for having kept us out of the euro? Credit where credit is due.
Baroness Warsi
It may well be that the noble Lord’s understanding of history and circumstances is very different from mine. From what I recall—and I am sure many Members of the House would agree—if anybody deserves great credit for fighting the great campaign to keep us out of the euro, it is my current boss, my right honourable friend the Foreign Secretary.
Lord Hamilton of Epsom
My noble friend told the House that 45% of our exports go to the EU. However, if quite a bit of that 45% is going to Antwerp and Rotterdam for onward shipment to countries outside the EU, would she accept that the 45% figure is not accurate?
Baroness Warsi
There is some writing on this as to whether the statistics are accurate because of the “Antwerp effect” where goods are actually for another destination but show that they are passing to Europe. I asked officials specifically about this matter and they informed me that the information they have from BIS is that the ONS does record the final destination. However, I cannot be specific as to how accurate these figures are.
Lord Hunt of Kings Heath
My Lords, I wonder whether the noble Baroness will reflect on her answer to my noble friend Lord Dubs. Was it the last Labour Government who took the decision in relation to the euro?
Lord Cormack
Will my noble friend, who has given us a bravura performance, put it on record that the man who deserves most credit for keeping us out of the euro is John Major?
Burma: Ethnic Nationalities
Baroness Warsi Excerpts(11 years, 6 months ago)
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Baroness Cox
To ask Her Majesty’s Government what is their assessment of recent developments in Burma with regard to the ethnic nationalities, in particular the Rohingya, Kachin and Shan peoples.
The Senior Minister of State, Department for Communities and Local Government & Foreign and Commonwealth Office (Baroness Warsi)
My Lords, despite the continuing process of political reform taking place in Burma, we are concerned by the reports of serious abuses being committed by government forces and armed ethnic groups against civilians, both in Kachin and across the border in Shan. Inter-communal violence in Rakhine state between the Rohingya and the Rakhine communities has again highlighted our ongoing concerns about the plight of the Rohingya, who are denied citizenship and civil and social rights.
Baroness Cox
My Lords, I thank the Minister for her sympathetic reply. Can she confirm the scale of the suffering caused by the Burmese Government’s policies of violence and oppression to which she has referred? In recent months, many hundreds have been killed, and an estimated 100,000 Kachin, 30,000 Shan and 100,000 Rohingya people have been displaced from their homes to live in appalling conditions in camps or in exile. When I was in Shan state earlier this year one of the Shan leaders said:
“When the lights went on in Rangoon all the world flooded there—and no one stopped to see us in the darkness”.
Will Her Majesty’s Government ensure that, during the forthcoming ministerial visit, the Minister will not only celebrate the lights of relative freedom in Rangoon but also engage with the ethnic peoples trapped in the darkness which still covers much of Burma today?
Baroness Warsi
My Lords, the noble Baroness raises a very important issue. She will accept that huge progress has been made in Burma but that it is important that that progress is felt by all communities in Burma. It is therefore right that the Government raise these concerns at every opportunity. The Foreign Minister and the Prime Minister raised them earlier this year when they visited Burma. They also specifically met with members of the Rohingya community. Indeed, the Prime Minister and the Foreign Secretary raised our specific concerns about the Rohingya community with President Thein Sein. My honourable friend the Minister of State hopes to visit Rakhine state when he visits Burma in December.
Lord Elton
My Lord, we are accustomed to being encouraged to welcome the new dawn of democracy in Burma but can my noble friend say to what extent the elected members of the Burmese Parliament really represent their electors and to what extent they have any control or influence on the actions and policies of the Burmese Government?
Baroness Warsi
My Lords, we welcome and make much of the progress that has been made in Burma, especially in relation to the emerging of democracy. However, it is right that we regularly raise our concerns about matters where we feel that progress is not being appropriately made. Indeed, on her historic visit to the United Kingdom, these matters were raised with Aung San Suu Kyi.
Baroness Kinnock of Holyhead
My Lords, the UN has described the Rohingya people as among the most persecuted minorities in the world. In view of that reality, why have the UK Government been silent and inactive about the callous treatment by Bangladesh of the desperate Rohingya arriving on their shores? Will HMG now press the Bangladeshi Government to offer at least temporary refuge and access to humanitarian aid instead of sending thousands of Rohingya back to sea and to appalling danger?
Baroness Warsi
My Lords, the Government have been neither silent nor inactive on this matter. In fact, I personally raised it with the Foreign Minister, Dipu Moni, only a few weeks ago. We continue to press this matter. The former Secretary of State for the Department for International Development raised it earlier this year in a meeting with the Prime Minister and the Foreign Minister. We have specifically raised the issue of being allowed to deliver aid to the refugee camps where the Rohingya community live.
Baroness Falkner of Margravine
My Lords, can my noble friend tell the House what resources from the stabilisation unit and the Conflict Pool are being used to provide humanitarian assistance to the three countries —Thailand, Burma and, indeed, Bangladesh—to alleviate the suffering of these people and to plan in the longer term for their rehabilitation and settlement within the three countries?
Baroness Warsi
The funds currently being provided are not from the Conflict Pool but from humanitarian assistance provided through DfID. We remain the largest bilateral donor to Burma having committed £187 million which has been allocated over a period of four years until 2015. Our aid predominantly focuses on healthcare, responsible and good governance, and improving livelihoods.
Baroness Uddin
My Lords, I understand that my noble friend the Minister has some sympathy with Bangladesh and its management of the vast numbers of refugees entering that country and no doubt she will continue to pressure Bangladesh for a proper solution and an international response to the refugee crisis. Does she accept that ethnic cleansing is in process? Will she ensure that she and the Government use the special relationship which we seem to have with the United States of America to brief her counterparts regarding the upcoming visit of President Obama to that country and on how the Rohingya people are desperately concerned about the indication that that will make to their plight?
Baroness Warsi
I accept that this is a desperate situation for a desperate community which has suffered now for many years. We raise this matter in many of our bilateral discussions both with the European Union and the US and specifically in discussions with Turkey, which has been playing a huge role in humanitarian assistance. The noble Baroness is right that we must continue to press. While we welcome the progress in Burma, I can absolutely assure the House that we continuously raise this matter.
Lord Avebury
When my noble friend met Dipu Moni, did she tell her frankly that closing the borders against the Rohingya refugees is contrary to customary international law? If so, what reply did she receive from the Foreign Minister?
Baroness Warsi
I had a number of discussions with the Foreign Minister both at the United Nations General Assembly ministerial week in New York and thereafter when she was travelling through London. I specifically raised the concern about the Rohingya community in this country, both in the wider community and among the Bangladeshi diaspora community which is crucial to the Bangladeshi Government. I left her with no illusion about the level of our concern.
Baroness Nye
My Lords, have the Government pressed the Burmese Government to allow the High Commission for Human Rights to set up an office in Burma? It would not only provide technical assistance to the Government and civil society groups during this transitional period but also be able to monitor not only the awful situation of the Rohingya but the dreadful rapes of ethnic Kachin and Shan women by the Burmese army.
Baroness Warsi
I am not sure what representations we have made so I shall write to the noble Baroness with a specific response. However, I can assure her that our ambassador, Mr Andrew Heyn, has been to Rakhine state twice over the past four weeks, including a visit to Kyaukpyu, the area which Human Rights Watch has been monitoring through satellite imaging.
Nigeria: Violence
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Baroness Berridge
To ask Her Majesty’s Government what is their assessment of the current situation in Northern Nigeria in the light of ongoing incidents of violence in Kaduna and Maiduguri.
The Senior Minister of State, Department for Communities and Local Government & Foreign and Commonwealth Office (Baroness Warsi)
My Lords, we have strongly condemned the recent violence in northern Nigeria, including that perpetuated by the extremists known as Boko Haram, which has afflicted all communities in Nigeria. We are also deeply concerned about the allegations of human rights abuses being perpetuated by members of the Nigerian security services. The British Government are working with the Nigerian Government and international partners to tackle the situation.
Baroness Berridge
I thank my noble friend for such a comprehensive answer. The deaths in northern Nigeria are not just a tragedy for Nigeria but could be a cause of regional instability. Will my noble friend please outline when these issues were last raised directly with President Goodluck Jonathan, and, if she has not done so already, will she host a round-table meeting to talk about our Government’s work on this issue with representatives of the diaspora within the UK, for whom this is a key concern? It is often the relatives of British citizens who are dying in northern Nigeria.
Baroness Warsi
I can tell my noble friend that the Prime Minister raised these matters when he met President Jonathan in February this year. The UK has a strong relationship with Nigeria on counterterrorism policy, focusing especially on extremism. Just over a week ago, our high commissioner in Abuja met senior officials at the Nigerian Ministry of Foreign Affairs and discussed the specific violence that we saw recently in northern Nigeria, including the most recent attack in Kaduna city. Senior officials met on 25 October to discuss the ongoing conflict.
Lord Boateng
My Lords, religious freedom is a human right and one that, I fear, is abused in relation to Christians the world over. We hear a great deal about Islamophobia; we hear much less about Christianophobia. The noble Baroness made an extremely successful visit recently to Geneva to address the UN Human Rights Council. Will she raise the issue of the persecution of Christians the world over at that council?
Baroness Warsi
The noble Lord raises an important issue. He will be aware that human rights is part of my portfolio and freedom of religion is a big part of that. It is something that I intend to put a huge amount of focus on, especially discrimination towards religious communities around the world. Specifically in relation to Nigeria, it is important to remember that Boko Haram comes out of a group known as JAS. That group, including Boko Haram, has targeted Muslims as well as Christians.
The Lord Bishop of Durham
I thank noble Lords. I was in Kaduna less than a month ago. Will the Minister confirm what actions are being taken to support religious leaders, such as Bishop Fearon in Kaduna and the Sultan of Sokoto, and leaders from both communities in their work? Do they have access to funds provided through DfID in the major programme of conflict management and mitigation that is going on at the moment?
Baroness Warsi
I cannot answer the specific point in relation to the individuals that the right reverend Prelate refers to, but I can say that we are funding a huge amount of work through DfID on conflict resolution, and specifically trying to create the right forums for interfaith discussions, including “Enduring Peace in Jos: Arresting the Cycle of Violent Conflict”. We are also involved in a programme to train youth peace ambassadors from both the Christian and Muslim communities. We are providing £800,000 over three years for work towards creating spaces where the different communities can come together to discuss some of these matters. We have also established the Nigeria stability and reconciliation programme, which specifically aims to address the grievances that can lead to extremism and terrorism.
Lord Triesman
My Lords, north-south relations in Nigeria are often very complex and can seldom be accurately described in simplistic terms as merely religious or tribal divisions—as the Minister has said, problems arise on both sides. Boko Haram’s objective is plainly contrary to any kind of modern view of democracy, freedom of belief or social inclusion—or indeed to the objectives of the Harare principles. What role might the Commonwealth have in assisting Nigeria to develop as a modern and inclusive country? Should we not encourage a Commonwealth Secretariat assessment, since that will be seen to be far less colonial and far more inclusive in global terms?
Baroness Warsi
The noble Lord is right that the conflict in Nigeria, which spans many decades, has many facets to it, including a religious facet and many ethnic tensions. His is an interesting idea in relation to the Commonwealth’s role. He will be aware that we already have discussions with both the African Union and the European Union in relation to joint work, but it is a matter that I will take back.
Lord Chidgey
Does my noble friend agree with the Bishop of Sokoto, Matthew Hassan Kukah, that the crisis in the north should not be seen as Christian against Muslim or north against south, but more as one of justice and fairness, which calls for a modern, quality education to be provided for girls as well as boys in the north and, most of all, sweeping reform to a demoralised and corrupt police force where absenteeism is now running at more than 50%?
Baroness Warsi
The noble Lord raises an important issue and I would add to that the voice of the Sultan of Sokoto, a traditional leader among Nigerian Muslims. He said that this group, Boko Haram, was “an embarrassment to Islam”. It is heartening to hear people such as Dr Aliyu, the Niger state governor and the chair of the Northern Governors’ Forum—again, a Muslim—basically condemning Boko Haram and saying that it did not represent Islam. Nearer here, in the United Kingdom, the Muslim Council of Britain has also come out and condemned it.
Syria
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Lord James of Blackheath
To ask Her Majesty’s Government whether they have received any information regarding the origin of weapons of mass destruction currently claimed by the government of Syria to be held by that country.
The Senior Minister of State, Department for Communities and Local Government & Foreign and Commonwealth Office (Baroness Warsi)
My Lords, we are very concerned about Syria’s chemical and biological weapons, the existence of which the Syrian foreign ministry spokesperson confirmed on 23 July 2012. The spokesperson also threatened to use such weapons against external aggressors. There has been significant public speculation about the origins of Syria’s chemical and biological weapons, but I am unable to comment on the accuracy of this information.
Lord James of Blackheath
My Lords, I thank the Minister for that response, but I wonder whether there is any case for pursuing this in greater detail. If it could be proven that these had originated in Iraq, would the original United Nations resolutions cross the border with the weapons of mass destruction? Secondly, now that we have the Syrian Government admitting widely to the use of drones that have been taken from Iraq, this would put every centre of government in Europe within a 4-metre radius of a payload of up to 10 kilograms of nerve gas.
Baroness Warsi
The noble Lord is quite right to raise these concerns. Although there have been numerous newspaper articles and think tank reports, including those from the Center for Strategic and International Studies, referring to anecdotal reports about the origins of these weapons of mass destruction, we are not aware of any firm and credible evidence to support this suggestion. In any event, UN sanctions on Iraq would not apply to Syria; we do, however, share concerns that Syria has conventional weapons on which chemical weapons could be used.
Lord Wright of Richmond
My Lords, will the noble Baroness give the House an assurance that we are not providing any military assistance at all to the so-called rebels in Syria, which could only complicate the extremely difficult mission of Ambassador Lakhdar Brahimi? Secondly, I ask her to assure the House—my Lords, I have forgotten what my question was.
Baroness Warsi
That makes my answering it slightly easier. I can assure the noble Lord on three very clear points. First, any support that we are giving to the opposition in Syria is non-lethal; it is in the form of humanitarian assistance and communications support. Secondly, we are fulfilling all of our international obligations in relation to the support that we are giving. Thirdly, we are abiding by the EU arms embargo.
Lord Turnberg
My Lords, there is much concern that these weapons of mass destruction may fall into the hands of terrorist organisations such as Hezbollah. Do the Government have any evidence that this is happening?
Baroness Warsi
Thankfully, at this moment there is no evidence to suggest that the armed opposition are in any way trying to get their hands on chemical weapons.
Baroness Falkner of Margravine
My Lords, my noble friend may be aware that the Syrian Government have given assurances to Mr. Lavrov, the Russian Foreign Minister, that they have no intention of using chemical or biological weapons. Have the Government been in contact with the United Nations Secretary-General to ask if the Security Council could also be given those wider assurances?
Baroness Warsi
The noble Baroness raises an important matter. We have heard some suggestions that the Syrians have indicated that they would not be using these chemical weapons, certainly in relation to their own people. However, going back to the foreign ministry spokesman’s threats made, sadly, in July of this year, he said they would be prepared to use them against external aggressors, as they call them.
Baroness Royall of Blaisdon
My Lords, I note the very firm answer given by the Minister to the noble Lord, Lord Wright, about the use of non-lethal weapons. I noted in the newspapers that the Prime Minister was very moved by his visit to the refugee camp, as one would be. Will a Statement be forthcoming on the Prime Minister’s visit, because I wonder how things will move on as a consequence of that visit?
Baroness Warsi
My right honourable friend the Prime Minister visited a refugee camp on the border between Jordan and Syria yesterday. He made some important points—first, in relation to a potential exit for Assad, that this country would not offer him asylum but we would not stand in the way of any other country offering him asylum, which could bring the violence to an end. Secondly, we said that we would engage more with the opposition, including the armed opposition, with a view to taking forward some political agreement. Thirdly, we committed additional funds of £14 million to the humanitarian relief efforts, which brings the UK total to just over £53 million.
Lord King of Bridgwater
Will my noble friend the Minister listen very carefully to what the noble Lord, Lord Wright, has said? If there are pressures in the United Nations at present to say that there is some obligation on members to get involved and intervene in some military capacity, I hope very strongly that, while we share the Prime Minister’s deep concern about the humanitarian situation and the desire to help in that way, we will not become involved in any military intervention.
Baroness Warsi
We have real concerns about the ongoing violence and killing within Syria, but we are clear that the United Nations Security Council is the best format in which to take these matters forward. We have had discussion with the Russians and Chinese to try to achieve some consensus, and I think that the views of my right honourable friend the Prime Minister are very clear. When he spoke at the United Nations General Assembly at the end of September, he was very forthcoming about his concerns about the bloodshed in Syria, but we will act with international agreement.
Baroness Symons of Vernham Dean
My Lords, can the Minister tell us whether Her Majesty’s Government are giving any additional aid to Jordan to help with the influx of displaced Syrians over its borders?
Baroness Warsi
The humanitarian work and support that the Government are giving is divided in relation to work within Syria, including with Palestinian refugees within Syria, but also in relation to border countries, which include Jordan and Turkey.
Lord Marlesford
My Lords, does the Minister agree that if, in fact, the weapons of mass destruction claimed to be owned by the Syrian Government are found to have originated in Iraq, that will be strong evidence that Saddam Hussein did after all have weapons of mass destruction?
Baroness Warsi
The noble Lord is aware of the Chilcot inquiry on matters in Iraq, which has a distinguished panel including Members of this House. He is also aware that it will report to the Prime Minister at the end of 2013. it would be inappropriate for me to comment on those matters at this stage.
Lord West of Spithead
My Lords, we know for certain that Syria has chemical weapons and, indeed, what we do not know is how closely it was liaising with the Soviets—and now the Russians—on those weapons. It seems that those are probably the most dangerous things, if they got into the wrong hands. Could the Minister reassure us that our Government, in connection with other Governments around the world, have a method of knowing if that is about to happen and if it has happened?
Baroness Warsi
At this moment in time, thankfully we do not have evidence to show that the armed opposition are in any way trying to get their hands on these weapons. However, we have made it very clear in very firm language that any use of these chemical weapons would result in a serious international response. We have also firmed up support in relation to border controls to stop anything passing between borders, and we also strengthened sanctions in June this year with the EU in relation to potential products that could top up any chemical and biological weapons stash that there might be in Syria.