Royal Navy
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Lord West of Spithead
To ask Her Majesty’s Government how many committed tasks the Royal Navy has to fulfil and what is the maximum number of committed tasks involving a frigate or destroyer that the Royal Navy could undertake over a prolonged period.
The Minister of State, Ministry of Defence (Earl Howe) (Con)
My Lords, the committed force focuses primarily on providing nuclear deterrence, defence of the UK and its overseas territories, and supporting the civil emergency organisations in times of crisis. The Royal Navy makes a sustained contribution to the delivery of military tasks on which the committed force is principally focused with frigates, destroyers and other force elements.
Lord West of Spithead (Lab)
I thank the noble Earl for his Answer. In 1998, we decided to have only 30 destroyers and frigates. We realised more were needed, but we said we would take the risk. Since then, the world has become more chaotic, as the Prime Minister has recently said, and we now have 19 destroyers and frigates, which I am on record as saying I believe is a national disgrace for a great maritime nation. Of those 19, six are the Type 45 destroyer, a brilliant anti-air warfare ship with fantastic capability, but there is a major main propulsion problem with those ships, so in reality today we have 13 escorts to do all the tasks required for our nation. Do we have a method in place now to resolve this problem with the Type 45’s main propulsion? When will they all be available for full operation, or will we be looking after this nation with only 13 escorts?
Earl Howe
My Lords, as the noble Lord is only too well aware with his enormous experience, the normal operational cycle of every ship involves them entering different readiness levels depending on their programmes and departmental planning requirements. He is right that the Type 45 has experienced some equipment reliability issues, including with the power and propulsion systems, but I am glad to tell him that most of them have now been remedied and work is continuing to resolve the remaining issues. Notwithstanding the issues that I have referred to, the Type 45 class remains operational and has certainly demonstrated its capability in the time that it has been in service.
Baroness Jolly (LD)
How many personnel are required on board these ships to fulfil those committed tasks? What gives the Minister confidence that there are enough skilled men and women to ensure that all ships and boats have their full complement?
Earl Howe
I am sure the noble Baroness will be aware that manning numbers are flexed according to whatever task the ship is assigned to fulfil. The bottom line is that no ship will ever go to sea unless it is fully manned for that particular task. For example, the Type 45 has a manning complement of 191, and for the Type 23 it is anything between 120 and 220. The manning situation in the Royal Navy is broadly in balance, although the noble Baroness will be aware of specific shortfalls that are most prevalent in surface and submarine engineer and warfare specialisations. There are a number of mitigating actions in place to address those issues.
Lord Touhig (Lab)
Keeping the seaways of the world open for trade and commerce is essential to the well-being of an island people like us, and means being able to protect our interests if they are threatened. I am sure the Minister and I agree on that. The head of the Russian navy has admitted increasing submarine patrols by 50% in the past two years and the chief of US naval operations has said that Russian warships are operating at a level not seen for two decades. He said that the Americans are debating whether to increase their naval presence in Europe. Are they doing that because they believe that Britain is no longer able to mount a response? Have they raised this matter with us? If we are asked to help, how many ships could we deploy?
Earl Howe
My Lords, I am sure the Russians are in no doubt of the capability that the Royal Navy can demonstrate. The Royal Navy has a robust range of measures in place for detecting and shadowing non-NATO naval units which may seek to enter our territorial waters without prior authority. We continue to develop new detection capabilities to maintain the operational advantage that we need. The strategic defence and security review currently under way will allow us to assess the full spectrum of submarine detection capability, including the utility of fixed-wing maritime patrol aircraft.
Lord Foulkes of Cumnock (Lab)
My Lords, my noble friend has revealed how many operational ships there are in the Royal Navy. Will the Minister tell us how many admirals there are?
Lord Burnett (LD)
My Lords, I wonder if the noble Earl would remind the SDSR team that there are many thousands of very high-calibre young men queuing up to join the Royal Marines, both as enlisted men and as officers—and that there should be no question of reducing the numbers in the Royal Marines, given the vital role they play in Britain’s defence.
Lord Spicer (Con)
My Lords, is it not true that a Royal Navy ship shot down a missile yesterday? If so, should we not have more ships than admirals perhaps?
Lord West of Spithead
My Lords, does that mean that we are now embarking on ballistic missile defence in our warships as a future policy?
Lord Stewartby (Con)
My Lords, when I first saw the wording of this Question, I wondered whether my noble friend was being asked to speculate about what the actual numbers might be. We heard some useful information this afternoon in that direction, but it is a long-running episode which requires attention from Defence Ministers all the time. I hoped that we could have a bit more precision. After all, the Question asks about,
“the maximum number of committed tasks involving a frigate or destroyer that the Royal Navy could undertake over a prolonged period”,
which gives an open way to an answer. Perhaps my noble friend can elaborate on that.
Earl Howe
I think the central point to make is that the SDSR provides the Government with an opportunity to take a deep look at what the Armed Forces need to meet the challenges that are assessed to face our country. It will set out the defence planning assumptions and the military tasks—essentially, what the Government may ask the Armed Forces to undertake. I am afraid that my noble friend will have to wait until the publication of the SDSR in a few weeks’ time.
Syria: Military Involvement by Canada
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Baroness Falkner of Margravine
To ask Her Majesty’s Government what discussions they have had with the new Government of Canada regarding the intention of that Government to withdraw their combat mission from the bombing campaign against ISIL.
The Minister of State, Ministry of Defence (Earl Howe) (Con)
My Lords, we have not had any discussions with the new Canadian Government, who take office on 4 November, about their intention to withdraw from air strikes against ISIL in Iraq and Syria. We welcome the new Government’s manifesto commitment to continue to focus on the training of local forces in the region and to provide more humanitarian support, including for refugees from Syria.
Baroness Falkner of Margravine (LD)
I am extremely glad that the noble Earl welcomes the election of the new Liberal Government who are delivering on their manifesto commitment to withdraw combat forces from the campaign in Iraq and Syria. Will he accept that this is a recognition by the Canadian people that the facts on the ground have changed? Russia is in Syria now; Iran is more constructively engaged. Indeed, the Foreign Secretary is in Saudi Arabia today. Will the Government accept that it is time for a peace process to stabilise Syria and to desist from continuing on an open-ended campaign which even the Americans say will last for years and years?
Earl Howe
My Lords, I agree that the facts in Syria have changed by reason of the Russian intervention. That is undeniable. What has not changed is that ISIL represents a direct threat to this country as much as ever it did, if not more, and it is very much in our national interests to see that threat eliminated. However, I take the noble Baroness’s point that ultimately the end of this conflict can be reached only by political means, and we are engaging as strenuously as we can through diplomatic and political circles to see that satisfactory conclusion.
Baroness Jolly (LD)
My Lords, I note the Minister’s response to my noble friend’s Question. We support our troops in the advice and training role in Iraq. However, I am concerned to learn that American trainers have been involved in combat and there have been casualties. Will the Minister clarify the position with our trainers? How many are there? Has their role changed to replicate the US model, and have there been any casualties?
Earl Howe
My Lords, I am not aware of any casualties among those of our personnel who are engaged in the training of moderate Syrian forces. Both we and the United States agree that we need to continue to support the moderate opposition in Syria. We acknowledge that the training programme has faced some challenges. The noble Baroness may be aware that only the training element of the programme is currently paused. We will continue to enable the efforts of the moderate opposition in its fight against ISIL and focus on equipping. That will allow us to reinforce the progress already made in countering ISIL.
Lord King of Bridgwater (Con)
Was my noble friend not struck by the fact that the appallingly difficult problem we face, raised by the noble Baroness, makes it extremely difficult to see at present how anything except a political solution can possibly resolve what is becoming a galloping crisis of refugees as the situation goes from bad to worse? As winter is now coming on, we can only pray that at last we can get some central resolution. We welcome the fact that Iran as well as Russia will now come to the discussions to be held shortly, together with the United States and other parties that are concerned.
Earl Howe
There is no doubt that any eventual political solution will require the major powers and those countries in the region to agree on that solution and, of course, if Iran can be involved in that as well as the United States, Russia and Saudi Arabia, all the better. The effect of the Russian action to date in targeting the moderate opposition groups is to take the pressure off ISIL, allow it scope to make territorial gains, which in recent days is exactly what it has done, and in so doing put back the date of that eventual settlement.
Lord Richard (Lab)
My Lords, the noble Baroness who asked the Question seemed to indicate that if the Russians were involved that was a ground for our getting out. Is the noble Lord aware that many of us, certainly on this side of the House, take the view that if the Russians are involved that is an additional ground why we should be involved, not that we should extract ourselves from it?
Lord Wright of Richmond (CB)
My Lords, I heard the noble Earl say that we are both politically and diplomatically involved in a search for a political solution. Will he explain what role we or the European Union are playing in the talks between the Americans, the Russians, the Iranians, the Saudis, the Jordanians and the Turks? I get the impression from reading the press that we are not involved with that at all.
Earl Howe
My Lords, it is certainly true that the diplomatic efforts are currently being led by the United States and the other countries that the noble Lord mentioned. However, the House needs to know that there is a comprehensive, cross-government strategy that supports those diplomatic efforts. It is a full-spectrum response, led by the Foreign and Commonwealth Office, not only in counterterrorism but in diplomatic efforts on Syria, Iraq and Libya, and with cross-HMG work on strategic communications and stabilisation. The noble Lord need be in no doubt that we are at the table in that sense.
Baroness Morgan of Ely (Lab)
My Lords, can I come back to the issue in the Question, on how Canada is reacting to the situation? The new Canadian Prime Minister stated that he will continue to engage in a responsible way in the fight against ISIL without being involved in the combat mission. Will the Minister say whether they will discuss how the new Canadian Government can contribute through these political and diplomatic efforts? Also, will the Government undertake to bring up the response to the refugee crisis with the new Canadian Government?
Earl Howe
Most certainly. It is important to emphasise that Canada is not disengaging from the region or abandoning the coalition. It will still keep its military trainers in northern Iraq and be engaged very substantially in the humanitarian relief effort. It is still very much part of the political and diplomatic discussions that are going on. Indeed, Canada will be represented this week in London at the coalition’s strategic communications working group, which is co-chaired by the UK.
Tax Credits (Income Thresholds and Determination of Rates) (Amendment) Regulations 2015
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Baroness Smith of Basildon
Threats to suspend the House of Lords; to pack it with 150 new Tory Peers, or to “clip our wings” do nothing to address the issues that are before us and have given rise to concerns. There is a need for true reform of your Lordships’ House and Labour Peers have already suggested good measures, but those threats have nothing to do with reform and everything to do with the Government not wanting to be challenged and not being willing to think again.
This is a common-sense way to do things. This House looks at the issues; considers them and thinks the Government have got them wrong; so let us send them back to the Government and urge them to rethink and come back with something that is significantly better and does not really harm, and create enormous fear in, those people in work who are struggling to make ends meet and are terrified of the letters that are going to come through their letterboxes near Christmas. We will not exceed our authority, but neither will we be cowed into abdicating our responsibilities to hold the Government to account and act in the public interest.
The Minister of State, Ministry of Defence (Earl Howe) (Con)
My Lords, the privilege falls to me, as Deputy Leader, of winding up this debate, which has proved to be a remarkable one. In many ways, it has been a landmark in the proceedings of the House. We have been treated to some extremely powerful contributions, both for and against the draft regulations, and both for and against the amendments that have been tabled. I listened with care to them all. I suggest to your Lordships that there are, in essence, two aspects of the matter that we are here to consider: the content of the regulations themselves and the issues which, for want of a better term, I will call the constitutional questions that arise out of three of the amendments before us.
Turning first to the policy issues, without unnecessarily going over the ground already covered by my noble friend the Leader of the House, there is one central point to be made at the outset. I make this point given that a number of noble Lords have seen fit to criticise both the intent and the effect of what the Government are seeking to achieve. The Government want a new deal for working people: a deal whereby those who claim either tax credits or universal credit will always be better off in work and always be better off working more. The way in which we are doing this will mean that a typical family man or woman, working full-time on the national living wage, will be substantially better off by the end of this Parliament than at the beginning of it. That is the aim that we have set ourselves and it is an aim that runs parallel with our policy intent, which we have made expressly clear for nearly two years now: that a Conservative Government, if and when elected, would look to find welfare savings of around £12 billion in order to reduce the public sector deficit. I simply say to the noble Baroness, Lady Hollis, that the proposals that she has very constructively put forward are already built into the assumptions that we made. I am happy to look at her proposals in more detail but, from what she said, the Chancellor has already factored those points in.
Achieving those two policies simultaneously is possible only if a series of measures is taken—measures that will move us from a position in which working households are supported by low wages and high tax credits to one where there are higher wages and lower tax credits. The regulations that are before us today are about only the tax credit element of that overall picture. That is why it is unfair to pick up the report from the Institute of Fiscal Studies and point with alarm to large losses that a poorer working family might incur from cuts in tax credits without also taking into account other vitally important things that we are doing. The counterbalance to lower tax credits is a combination of positives—the national living wage, the rise in the income tax personal allowance and, importantly—
Baroness Meacher
The analysis of the Institute for Fiscal Studies is very clear in incorporating the effects not only of the tax credit changes but of the rise in the minimum wage, the move to the national living wage and the increase in the income tax and higher-rate tax thresholds. It makes very clear the redistributional effects of all these things from the poor to the rich.
Earl Howe
I do not dispute that the Institute for Fiscal Studies has looked at these things, but the figure of £1,300 that has been quoted is one that does not take into account the positives that I mentioned. Importantly for families with children, the doubling of free childcare should not be overlooked. For many people, although not for all, that will make it possible to work longer hours. Those are just some of the counterbalances. The noble Baroness, Lady Manzoor, chose not to mention them.
I cannot pretend that these have been easy decisions. However, I put it to the House that the measures that we are taking are the right thing for us to be doing—right not only for individual working families but for the nation. We are still, as a nation, living grossly beyond our means. Even so, eight out of 10 working households will be better off by 2017-18 than they are now because of the combined effect of the measures that we are taking.
Baroness Manzoor
Will the noble Earl say where the evidence is to support that assertion about eight out of 10 households? That is partly the problem, because those sorts of impact assessments have not been done.
Lord McKenzie of Luton (Lab)
My Lords, is the Minister saying that eight out of 10 people currently on tax credits and subject to these cuts are similarly to be better off?
Baroness Kramer
My Lords, for clarification, will the Minister focus on the two out of 10 whom he says are losers and tell us how many people those are? How many children are in those families and what is their loss likely to be? We are talking about something close on 1 million people, largely families with children. I think that he will be able to confirm that they are in the lowest deciles of the population in terms of poverty.
Earl Howe
Let me address that. It has been said by some noble Lords, and the noble Baroness’s question implies it, that the brunt of these savings will be borne by those on tax credits who are relatively worse off. That is not the case. The 10% of tax credit claimants on the highest incomes—incidentally, those on £42,000 on average—contribute nearly four times as much to the savings that we are proposing as the poorest claimants. That is an important point to factor in. The problem with talking about those at the lower end of the scale is that everyone’s circumstances are different. Some people have children and some do not. Some have a disability and some do not. Some work shorter hours, some work longer hours. It is very difficult to particularise.
I can say that the cut in public spending that we propose through this regulation is one that will take us back not to some far-distant point in the past, but to the levels of spending seen in 2007-08 before the financial crash. I am talking of course about the spending position in its totality. One cannot particularise, as I said, to an individual case because people’s circumstances will be different.
Lord Purvis of Tweed
The Deputy Leader is giving a defence of the Government’s position that does not give much of an indication that the Government are prepared to think again, as some Members on the opposite Benches have indicated. Before he came to the House today, I wonder if he had spoken to the leader of his party in Scotland, Ruth Davidson. She said over the weekend:
“If we’re not the party of getting people into work and making it easier for them to get up the tree, then what are we there for? It’s not acceptable. The aim is sound, but we can’t have people suffering on the way. The idea that there’s a cliff edge in April before the uptake in wages comes in is a real practical human problem and the Government needs to look again at it”.
Will they?
Lord Purvis of Tweed
Maybe I was not entirely clear. That was the leader of the noble Earl’s party in Scotland.
Earl Howe
Look, I cannot take those comments in any sort of context, having not read them. Of course, I accept what the noble Lord has reported about the leader of the Conservative Party in Scotland, but I am not aware of the general context in which she was speaking and I hope he will understand that.
Lord Spicer (Con)
Will the noble Earl say how these figures compare with the budget for the nation’s entire defence spending, which he deals with in his day job?
Earl Howe
The regulations before us account for £4.4 billion of public expenditure in the next financial year. That is a large slice of the defence budget, but it is not the total defence budget. It will however mean that the Chancellor has more money at his disposal to spend on schools, hospitals and those with disabilities. Incidentally, I say to the most reverend Primate the Archbishop of York that the national living wage is possible only because the economy of this country is strengthening, and it is strengthening because there is a high degree of confidence in the Government’s economic programme and their ability to deliver economic stability by, among other things, reducing the deficit. One has to look at the totality of what the Chancellor’s programme consists of.
The Archbishop of York
The Living Wage Commission, which I chair, was working in conditions when the economic climate was not very good. We were very clear that those companies that can afford to pay should pay a living wage. The noble Earl will be interested to know that, even before the economy started improving, a lot of companies acted out of an ethical conviction about their workers. As Churchill said here 100 years ago, the greatest evil is that some of Her Majesty’s people are not being paid a living wage. Those companies actually took on the need to pay a living wage and were doing so even when the economic climate was very poor. Of course, I agree that the economy has improved, but if it has improved, why are we not helping the poorest who need us most?
Earl Howe
We are doing so. We are doing so through the national living wage. We should welcome the fact that these companies are already paying the national living wage. There are 200 major companies already doing so. That is a very good thing. I congratulate the most reverend Primate on the work that he has done in this area. I do not think there is anything much between us on this, as a matter of fact.
The Archbishop of York
Sorry—this is about the impression that was being given. I am suggesting that the Chancellor of Exchequer actually may meet the £4.2 billion that he wants to cut in tax credits through the living wage, because the report actually shows that if the 5 million are being paid a living wage, it is more likely that less tax credit would have to be taken off. My worry relates to the people who are going to suffer. That is what my speech was all about.
Earl Howe
Interestingly, the Institute for Fiscal Studies said in terms in its report that the Chancellor made quite a big choice in the Budget to protect some of the poorest people on tax credits. That is self-evidently true. I would add in response to the noble Baroness, Lady Campbell of Surbiton, who I am sorry is not in her place—oh, she is, I beg her pardon—that the disabled and severely disabled elements of working tax credit will not be cut through these measures. They will be uprated by inflation. In fact, the Government are making savings in tax credits, so that they can protect disability benefits which have been protected from the benefits freeze and the welfare cap, including DLA and the support group component of ESA, as well as disability elements of the tax credits, as I have mentioned. I hope that that is of some reassurance to her.
Despite all that I have said about why what we are doing is both necessary and right, I recognise that there are noble Lords opposite who will remain unpersuaded. Let me therefore address the amendments. Other than in the rarest of circumstances, it is against the long-standing conventions of this House—and, therefore, I would suggest wrong—for us to vote down or block secondary legislation. Those rare circumstances, I would argue, do not include this situation, in which noble Lords are seeking to challenge the House of Commons on a matter of public spending and taxation, a point made very effectively by the noble Lord, Lord Butler. The sums involved are not trivial. The regulations before us, as I said, would account for welfare savings of £4.4 billion in 2016-17. We can argue—as I am actually quite interested in doing, but I do not think it would be profitable—about the technicality of whether these regulations are or are not financial, but in substance they are very definitely and very obviously financial. I therefore say to the noble Baroness, Lady Manzoor, that her fatally worded amendment should not be put to a vote.
On the amendments tabled by the noble Baronesses, Lady Meacher and Lady Hollis, the situation, I contend, is simple. There is a choice before this House to approve or not to approve these regulations. It is a binary choice. The noble Baronesses are inviting the House to withhold our approval. We can argue endlessly once again about the technicality of whether the wording of these amendments is or is not fatal in nature. But the reality is that if either amendment is passed, this House will not have approved these regulations. It is no good saying that this would merely amount to asking the House of Commons to think again. They can do that with Lords’ amendments to primary legislation, but with secondary legislation there is no mechanism for a dialogue between the Houses and no mechanism to allow the will of the Commons to prevail in respect of this instrument—
Baroness Smith of Basildon
I sense the noble Lord is coming to a conclusion. Does he accept that the amendment of the noble Baroness, Lady Hollis, does not ask the House of Commons to think again; it asks the Government to reconsider their proposals and think about new ones? It is asking the Government to reconsider.
Earl Howe
Of course, I do accept that. The amendment of the noble Baroness is expressly asking the Government to do something other than what is in the regulations. By definition, that means that if her amendment were carried, we could not bring back the same set of proposals. The implementation of these regulations would not be delayed, as the noble Baroness is suggesting; it would be thwarted entirely. So, she is asking the House to accept a false proposition. It is very interesting that the noble Baroness herself has recently given an interview which certainly implied that the amendment of the noble Baroness, Lady Hollis, is a fatal one. In the interview she gave to the Huffington Post, she said that if the amendment of the noble Baroness is carried, the Government cannot go ahead with the cuts. Well, that, to me, is very fatal indeed. Therefore—
Lord Grocott
I am really quite surprised at the noble Earl, given all his experience and the respect in which he is held in this House. He seems to be suggesting that there is no significant difference between a fatal amendment and a non-fatal amendment. In the time I have been here, which is less than his, there has always been a clear distinction between the two—“binary” is the word he used in another context. Indeed, the Leader of the House seemed to be unclear in her opening remarks about the distinction between the Lib Dem amendment and the Labour amendment, but the difference is surely fundamental. If he does not accept my proposition, could he at least enlighten the House as to the professional advice from clerks to him and the Conservative Front Bench about which of these amendments are fatal and which are not.
Baroness Symons of Vernham Dean
I beg the noble Earl’s pardon. I have the greatest respect for him, but in her speech my noble friend Lady Hollis said explicitly that she had drafted her amendment with the help of the Clerk of the Parliaments, and the Clerk of the Parliaments said that it is not a fatal amendment. Is the noble Earl challenging that?
Earl Howe
—the traditionally worded fatal amendment is that in the name of the noble Baroness, Lady Manzoor. I am sure that the noble Baroness, Lady Hollis, got good advice—the best advice there is—but what we are looking at is what would happen if her amendment were carried. I am saying that it would frustrate the Government’s intent.
Baroness O’Loan
Does the Minister think that it would be impossible, if either of these two amendments were passed, for the Government to bring back regulations in the form of a statutory instrument to this House?
Earl Howe
The problem is that the amendment in the name of the noble Baroness, Lady Hollis, holds the Government hostage. It holds them to ransom. We might be able to bring back some different regulations, but what if those were unacceptable to the House? Let us read the wording of the amendment. It puts us on a perpetual treadmill.
Baroness Meacher
There is a very important distinction between the amendment in the name of the noble Baroness, Lady Hollis, and my amendment. The crucial point about the amendment I have tabled, which is also not a fatal amendment, is that all it asks for is some time and some information. That is a very different thing from asking the Government to spend money on transitional arrangements. I have put down the amendment for only one reason, and that is because the House of Commons has a cross-party Motion on Thursday which they wish to and will debate. It has on it the names of eight Conservative MPs, including those of former Cabinet Ministers. Does the Minister accept that to give the Government time to listen to the Commons is an entirely appropriate duty for this House to perform?
Earl Howe
I understand what the noble Baroness is seeking to achieve here, but the fact is that the House of Commons has looked at this three times and has not overturned the proposals. In fact, it has approved them. I would simply say to the noble Baroness that if we are talking about the advice given by the Clerk of the Parliaments, there is a crucial difference between an amendment that it is procedurally permissible to bring before the House, and one which it is constitutionally proper for the House to approve. I do not take issue with the noble Baroness, Lady Meacher, or the noble Baroness, Lady Hollis, bringing forward their amendments. What I do take issue with is the idea that we should vote in favour of either of them, or indeed in favour of the amendment in the name of the noble Baroness, Lady Manzoor.
I need to conclude. For the House to withhold its consent to the regulations today would, in my submission, mean overruling the House of Commons on an issue which that House has already expressed its view on three times. In other words, it would mean doing what this House has not done for more than 100 years, which is to seek to override the primacy of the House of Commons on a financial matter. So I say respectfully to the noble Baronesses, Lady Manzoor, Lady Hollis and Lady Meacher, that there is a right way and a wrong way to challenge government policy on a matter of this kind. This is the wrong way. The right way is to table an amendment such as the one in the name of the right reverend Prelate—not that I support it, but that is the proper way of doing it—or at a suitable opportunity to table an amendment to primary legislation. Indeed, a Bill is coming to us shortly, the Welfare Reform and Work Bill, which would enable noble Lords to do exactly that, should they so choose.
My contention is this. The measures in these regulations form a central plank of the programme on which the Government were elected to office in May. It is a programme that has been in the public domain for a long time. However, even if it was not and even if these were policies dreamt up by the Chancellor overnight, I respectfully say to your Lordships that this House, under its conventions, should not reject statutory instruments or seek to overturn the primacy of the other place on a matter of very sizeable public expenditure. I therefore invite the sponsors of each of the amendments to withdraw them, and I urge the House to allow the regulations to pass. Moreover, I simply remind the House that in order to support the amendment in the name of the right reverend Prelate, the preceding three amendments need either to be withdrawn or defeated.
Baroness Manzoor
My Lords, I thank everyone who has contributed to this debate. Noble Lords will be relieved to hear that I do not intend to summarise the excellent contributions that have been made from all sides of the House. As your Lordships know, I am a relatively new Member, and for me it is a privilege to serve as a Member of this House. But with that privilege comes responsibility.
Tabling this Motion was not something I did lightly. I do not discount the strength of feeling on the role of the House and I do not believe that this is a situation in which the House should find itself regularly. However, ultimately this is about the House making a decision on whether we think it is acceptable for the Government to cut off vital support for 3 million families which they claim to support. It is about whether we think it is acceptable for the Prime Minister to make these changes not via primary legislation, but by a procedural instrument—in direct contradiction of what he said to people during the general election. It is about whether we think it is acceptable for this House to relinquish its responsibilities to those affected.
I welcome the Leader of the House saying that the Chancellor will be listening to this debate—and I hope also to the country—very carefully. But I could not look myself in the eye tomorrow if I had not done all I could to stop this devastating measure going through. I know that many in my party feel the same, and while I hold no ill will against anyone who does not share our view, I hope that those who agree that the lives of the 4.9 million children who will be affected should be our primary concern will join us in the Division Lobby. Tax credit cuts for low-paid working families are short-sighted and deeply damaging, not only to the parents and children who will bear the cost, but to the Government’s own long-term goals. I urge the Government to rethink, and I hope the House will choose to reject the regulations as they stand. I wish to test the opinion of the House.
Syria and Iraq: Airspace
Earl Howe Excerpts(8 years, 6 months ago)
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Lord West of Spithead
To ask Her Majesty’s Government what discussions they have had with Russia about co-ordinating the use of airspace over Syria and Iraq.
The Minister of State, Ministry of Defence (Earl Howe) (Con)
My Lords, before I respond to the noble Lord, I am sure that the whole House would wish to join me in paying tribute to Flight Lieutenant Alan Scott of 33 Squadron and Flight Lieutenant Geraint Roberts of 230 Squadron, of RAF Benson in Oxfordshire, whose Puma helicopter crashed on approach to land at NATO’s Resolute Support mission headquarters in Kabul, Afghanistan, on 11 October. Our thoughts are with their families and friends at this very difficult time. Our thoughts are also with the families of the two US service personnel and one French civilian who lost their lives, and with the five other NATO personnel who were injured.
The UK has had no conversations with Russia about this issue. The United States, on behalf of the global coalition to counter ISIL, of which the UK is a member, has had discussions with Russia on the safe separation of aircraft and air safety, resulting in a memorandum of understanding on the prevention of flight safety incidents.
Lord West of Spithead (Lab)
My Lords, I thank the Minister for his response and I am delighted to see that he is wearing a red poppy. I am slightly disappointed by his Answer, because I would have liked to have thought that the UK was involved in these discussions. It goes more broadly: I think that there is a lack of willingness to understand the truth of what is happening on the ground, and that is a recipe for losing wars. Unless we start to discuss and talk with Russia, Iran and—I am afraid—the butcher Assad, and all the coalition, we are not going to be able to put together a package that will enable us to destroy ISIL, which is the group that we have to destroy because it is the greatest threat. I urge the noble Earl to encourage the Foreign Office and our Government to get involved in these discussions and perhaps to get some form of contact group going so that we can move forward and destroy this very real threat.
Earl Howe
The noble Lord makes a series of important points. There are two issues here: one is air safety over Syria and the other is the end to the conflict. On air safety, the memorandum of understanding provides a considerable degree of assurance on the matter of Syrian airspace. He is quite right, however, that ultimately, the only way that we can end the conflict satisfactorily is to have a political solution, which will demand the buy-in of the major powers and regional states.
Lord Elton (Con)
My Lords, will these discussions include one on the separation of pilotless guided missiles, which at present intersect horizontally with the civilian flight paths that lie between the point of launch and the point of intended contact?
Earl Howe
My Lords, the United States is not making the MoU public, so I cannot go into a huge amount of detail on its content, other than what the US has publicly released, which is that the MoU is aimed at minimising the risk of in-flight incidents between coalition and Russian aircraft and includes specific safety protocols for aircrews to follow. The US and Russia will be forming a working group to discuss any implementation issues, which will no doubt include those raised by my noble friend.
Baroness Jolly (LD)
My Lords, what evidence do the Government have to allow them to be confident about the safety of our missions into Syria and Iraq, given the proliferation of armed and surveillance drones over these territories? Will the Minister also tell the House what discussions the coalition has had about this particular issue?
Earl Howe
I have already referred to the memorandum of understanding, which, as I have said, is a major step forward in terms of avoiding unwanted incidents over Syrian airspace. The protocols to which I referred include maintaining professional airmanship at all times, the use of specific communication frequencies, and the establishment of a communication line on the ground. But it is worth noting that, by and large, the reconnaissance effort that the coalition is putting in is directed to the east of Syria, whereas the Russian action is largely in the west of that country.
Lord Reid of Cardowan (Lab)
My Lords, I join with the condolences that the Minister extended to the families and the loved ones of those who have died in our services and others.
Some three months ago, when I asked the Minister whether the Government considered ISIL or Assad the greatest threat, he unhesitatingly responded that the greatest threat was ISIL—a view with which I agree. Does it not make sense to shoot the wolf nearest the sledge first? In other words, whatever the controversy of wider discussions with Russia and Iran and whatever our differences with them, will he bear in mind when considering this question the wise words of Winston Churchill when criticised for a working alliance with Josef Stalin and the Soviet Union: “I dare say that if Herr Hitler invaded hell, I would have a good word to say for the devil”? In other words, can we maximise those forces that share our view about the greatest threat being ISIL?
Earl Howe
My Lords, in considering that question we need to remember that Assad is a man who has barrel-bombed his own civilians and caused untold suffering among the Syrian population. He cannot form part of any eventual permanent solution to the conflict, and for that reason we cannot countenance taking any action which might serve to strengthen the current Syrian regime.
Lord Howell of Guildford (Con)
My Lords, following the comments of the noble Lord, Lord West, which I broadly support, can my noble friend say what steps we or the coalition are taking to reinforce the efforts of Jordan to establish two buffer zones north of Jordan in areas presently held by ISIL and establish a safe haven area or two? Is this not a very important first step towards meeting the challenge of the source of the problem: namely, the poisonous ISIL movement itself, from which all our problems stem?
Earl Howe
My Lords, this idea has obvious immediate appeal. But when one drills down into the practicalities one soon realises that there are serious obstacles to creating so-called safe havens or buffer zones in any part of Syria. Those zones would need to be policed and reinforced. If they were not, we would see a repeat of what we had in Bosnia with the Srebrenica massacre, and the sheer effort of putting men on the ground to ensure that those safe areas really were safe would be enormous.
Lord Dannatt (CB)
My Lords, I agree wholeheartedly with what the noble Lord, Lord Reid, just said about shooting the wolf closest to the sledge, and I have heard that the memorandum is beginning to increase co-operation between air forces operating in the Iraq-Syria airspace. Can the noble Earl say when this House and the other House will be consulted on the extension of Royal Air Force operations of an offensive nature over Syrian airspace so that we can slay that wolf that is nearest to the sledge as soon as possible?
Earl Howe
My Lords, my right honourable friend the Prime Minister has made very clear that ISIL needs to be destroyed in Syria as well as Iraq. He was clear when he said that that there is a strong case for us to do more in Syria. But, as he also said, it would be better if there were a consensus supporting such action in the House of Commons. His views on that have not changed, but what has changed is the growing evidence that ISIL poses an increasing threat to us here in this country. I cannot give the noble Lord a date on which such a vote might take place, but before that we would clearly need to be sure that that political consensus was there.
Armed Forces: Reserves
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The Minister of State, Ministry of Defence (Earl Howe) (Con)
My Lords, I am most grateful to my noble friend Lord Freeman for the opportunity that this short debate has provided for me to speak about the strength of our Reserve Forces. We are addressing this matter head on by means of the Future Reserves programme. In the 2013 reserves White Paper we described the changes that we planned to make to the Reserve Forces as substantial, as requiring a shift in the way that we thought of the Reserve Forces—both in the country and in the Armed Forces themselves—and as requiring changes to the way that we support them. We also said that the plans were eminently achievable. The expansion of the Reserve Forces under the Future Reserves programme is critical to our ability to deliver defence on a sustainable financial basis. It will enable us to ensure that the Armed Forces are structured and resourced to meet the challenges of the 21st century. The Government are now restructuring and revitalising our Reserve Forces, investing in new equipment and training, and reversing a long period of decline and underinvestment.
The programme is about doing defence differently. I say to the noble Lord, Lord Bilimoria, in particular, with considerable emphasis that it is not about swapping regular personnel for reserves, and it is certainly not about providing defence on the cheap. It is about changing the way that we deliver defence to make the best use of our resources, to better harness the talents of wider UK society and to help restore the links and understanding between the Armed Forces and the communities that they serve. We should be in no doubt that whatever the size of the Armed Forces, we must always have reserves.
My noble friend Lord Freeman asked about recruitment, which has been a running theme in this debate. I am pleased to be able to report that our programme to grow the reserves is on track, with a huge amount achieved already, although we are not complacent and recognise that significant challenges remain. In the year to 1 September, more than 8,300 people joined the volunteer reserves—an increase of nearly 70% on the previous 12-month period—taking their total strength close to 33,000. Most notably, more than 6,400 people joined the Army Reserve, an increase of 81% on the equivalent period in the previous 12 months. All three services have already exceeded their end-of-year trained strength targets. However, that does not mean that we can relax. We must and will work to maintain this progress to meet our commitment to creating a force of around 35,000 trained volunteer reserves by April 2019.
I can also say with confidence that the offer we are now making to reservists and potential recruits is the best it has ever been. In the two years since the White Paper was published, we have made substantial improvements to the support that we provide to them. For example, we have invested in new equipment and better training, including more opportunities to train alongside regulars and on exercises overseas; we have given reservists access to the same pension scheme as regulars; and we have given them a paid annual leave entitlement, as well as other significant benefits that I shall not list.
We are also offering reservists a greater range of interesting and challenging opportunities than before. New call-out powers enshrined in the Defence Reform Act have allowed us to use reservists in the same way as regulars, and reservists have taken up the challenge. In the past 12 months, they have supported defence engagement activity overseas, including providing vital training to indigenous forces in Afghanistan and Ukraine; they have been deployed as formed elements to our bases in the Falkland Islands and Cyprus; they have provided specialist help to deal with the Ebola outbreak in west Africa; and they have taken part in counterterrorist and counterpiracy operations alongside their regular counterparts. All told, around 600 reservists have been called out for service since the Defence Reform Act took effect.
The right reverend Prelate the Bishop of Portsmouth asked about the issues arising from working alongside regulars and contractors. Our recent experience in operations such as in Afghanistan and Iraq has shown that reservists and regulars can and do work together seamlessly, and they both work very closely with contractors, as well as with allied forces and other government departments and agencies. Almost two-thirds of regulars who have served alongside reserves rate them as professional. That comes from the recent Armed Forces Continuous Attitude Survey.
However, we are not just making wider use of reservists on operational service; we are offering them more and better training opportunities as well. In the current training year, the services have planned more than 50 overseas training exercises involving reserves, including a series of Army exercises in Kenya involving integrated companies of regulars and reserves. We are also giving reservists more recognition for their contribution to defence. In June, the first ever Reserves Day was held as part of the build-up to Armed Forces Day. This provided an opportunity for the whole of the UK to celebrate our Reserve Forces and for reservists to show pride in their service. Reserves Day will be an annual event from now on.
My noble friend Lord Attlee and the right reverend Prelate emphasised the importance of retention. The changes that I have described are all part of improving the experience of being in the reserves, which is vital in enabling us to motivate and retain people with the right skills. They are having a positive effect. Around a year ago, it became evident that we had turned a corner and that more people were choosing to stay in the reserves than were choosing to leave.
My noble friends Lord Freeman and Lord De Mauley asked about the recruitment of ethnic minorities. Despite some very good work in recent years across defence, there is a clear need to do more to increase the recruitment and retention of women, black, minority ethnic and other minority communities. This is a defence priority. To help achieve that aim, we have established a defence diversity inclusion programme within the MoD that covers civilian and military employees.
My noble friend Lord Freeman and the noble Baroness, Lady Smith, asked about recruitment to the medical reserve. The majority of medical reservists undertake their primary careers within the NHS, as we know. The Defence Medical Services and the NHS have developed a close working partnership to promote the benefits of reserve service which is supported through engagement events, myth-busting information and a dedicated reserve section on the NHS employers’ website. This collaborative approach is undoubtedly a factor in the increased success in recruiting into the three single-service medical reserves, but we are not complacent on that score either.
My noble friend Lord Attlee asked about problems recruiting direct-entry officers. The services are aware of that issue and have begun to put programmes in place to attract officers and to shorten their training pipelines. My noble friend Lady Buscombe asked about 77 Brigade recruiting and fitness standards. Fitness standards for some elements of 77 Brigade are different from those of most other formations.
I should also mention, to the right reverend Prelate in particular, our continuing work with employers. In the White Paper we said that we want to build relationships with employers that are tailored to reflect their individual circumstances, open and predictable and based on mutual benefit. We understand the commitment that employers of reservists are asked to make, and we are immensely grateful for that commitment. We consulted extensively with employers of reservists before the White Paper, and we have responded positively to the observations they made. For example, we have established the Defence Relationship Management organisation, which provides account management services for the most significant employers and employer organisations at the national level and information and support for reservists and employers through its website and helpline. We have increased the financial assistance available for employers and introduced new incentive payments of up to £500 per calendar month per reservist for small and medium-sized employers when their reservist employees are mobilised. There are other things as well that I could mention but I do not have time to do so.
We launched our employer recognition scheme in 2014, and gold and silver awards emanate from that. The 700th corporate covenant was signed in September and more have been added since. Central government is playing its part too, with a challenge set by the Cabinet Secretary for 1% of members of the Home Civil Service to become reservists, a point mentioned by my noble friend Lord De Mauley. As at July this year, there were more than 1,250 Civil Service reservists, which reflects a 7% growth in the preceding nine months. That challenge remains a high priority within government.
I hope I have illustrated the significant number of strategic measures that we have put in place to help us to grow the reserves and develop their capability. We have also taken some important practical steps. We have overcome a number of technical challenges that were affecting Army reserve recruitment. I say to my noble friend Lady Buscombe that by making more imaginative use of various advertising media and methods, so that more people can see our messages about what the reserves can offer, there has been an increase in advertising recall and resonance among those who have seen or heard the advertisement.
I am conscious that my time will shortly be up but I cannot fail to address very briefly the issue raised by the noble Lord, Lord Touhig, about the mental health of reservists. Incidentally, I warmly welcome him to his new position. More than £14 million is being invested to deliver a significant change in occupational health services for reservists. There are programmes in place to make sure that mental health briefings and preparations for reservists are aligned with those of regular personnel. The veterans and reserves mental health programme is open to current and former members of the reserve services. There are conditions attached, but treatment will be offered by the Defence Medical Services to individuals whose mental health is assessed to have suffered primarily as a result of their operational service as a reservist. This care can be accessed for life as long as it is clinically indicated.
My time is up. I regret not having addressed all the points raised, but I hope this has been a helpful résumé of where we are with this important agenda.
Steel Industry
Earl Howe Excerpts(8 years, 6 months ago)
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The Minister of State, Ministry of Defence (Earl Howe) (Con)
My Lords, we have not heard from the Liberal Democrats, but we have plenty of time.
Lord Stoneham of Droxford
My Lords, Tata’s statement today says that China’s imports of plate steel into the EU have increased by a factor of four over the last two years. Is the Prime Minister raising evidence of dumping with President Xi during his visit today, and, given that the Government’s Statement says that no Government can act alone in this matter, what precise action are the Government seeking from the EU to use the strength of its marketplace to put pressure on the Chinese?
Syria
Earl Howe Excerpts(8 years, 7 months ago)
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Lord West of Spithead
To ask Her Majesty’s Government, in the light of the remarks by General John Allen, Special Presidential Envoy for the Global Coalition to Counter ISIL, on 13 September that the conflict in Syria must be solved at a political level in order to ease the humanitarian crisis, whether the Chiefs of Staff have formally discussed comprehensive strategy options for the defeat of ISIL, and peace and reconstruction in Syria.
The Minister of State, Ministry of Defence (Earl Howe) (Con)
My Lords, in Syria, we are tackling immediate threats to UK national security, while also seeking a political settlement to the conflict. The ultimate solution, both to the migration crisis and to threats emanating from Syria, must be political transition. The National Security Council is the forum for comprehensive cross-government discussion of strategy and has recently discussed Syria. The Chiefs of Staff also address Syria regularly at their monthly Chiefs of Staff Committee.
Lord West of Spithead (Lab)
I thank the noble Earl for his Answer. However, I am disappointed, because I know that the Chiefs of Staff have not discussed this formally. Does the Minister agree that there is now great urgency to agree a comprehensive strategic plan to destroy ISIL and restore peace? It clearly needs to involve Assad, Russia and Iran, all levers of diplomacy, pressure on money flow, propaganda and military force, and being part of a huge coalition makes it much more complex. Will the Minister assure us that strategic options have been looked at for us to present to the coalition, because we are experts in this, as are the Americans? They have not been so far, but will the Chiefs of Staff be fully involved in this in a formal way?
Earl Howe
I agree with the analysis that the noble Lord has put forward. We have in place a cross-government, counter-ISIL task force. We are also supporting our friends and allies in the Middle East to broker a solution in Syria. We welcome the international effort, particularly that being conducted by the United States, Russia, Iran and Saudi Arabia, which are clearly key players in the area. We encourage Russia and Iran, in particular, to use their influence with the regime to achieve a lasting political transition. There is a blend of tough military action and self-defence at home, but we are also using our good offices, diplomatically, to broker that political solution.
Lord Wright of Richmond (CB)
Does the Minister agree that the only credible strategy option for the defeat of ISIL is what the Russians appear to be doing at present—namely, to work with their long-time ally, the Syrian Government, to help them push back ISIL from the occupation of their sovereign territory? That is the only strategy that might enable those Syrians massing at the Hungarian border, many of whom have fled the brutality of ISIL, to return to their homes. Are we in diplomatic or military contact with either the Russians or the Syrians about this?
Earl Howe
We are certainly in diplomatic contact with the Russians. However, we are also strongly supporting the United Nations efforts. Following on from wide-ranging consultations, the UN envoy, de Mistura, has outlined plans to form four thematic working groups. These focus on political and legal issues, military and security issues, continuity of public services, and then, in the future, reconstruction and development in Syria. Last month, the United Nations Security Council endorsed his plan, in a welcome show of unity, and we would give maximum encouragement to that process.
Baroness Falkner of Margravine (LD)
The Minister will be aware of reports that the Russians are building new runways in Syria, in addition to the naval base in Tartus, and deploying significant numbers of military advisers, even “green men”, we are told. This has striking parallels with Vietnam; although of course this time it is the Russians, rather than the US, in the role of being sucked in. Is the Minister able to tell the House whether Chiefs of Staff and military-to-military contacts have been made with the Russians to avoid conflicts and conflagration within the Syrian-Iraqi space?
Earl Howe
My Lords, we are aware of reports that Russia may have deployed military personnel and equipment to Syria. We are monitoring those reports very closely. Any unilateral military support to the Assad regime, for any purpose, is, in our view, destabilising and counterproductive. This is, after all, the same regime that is causing a humanitarian crisis through aerial bombardment of its own people, forcing thousands of people to flee. They cannot be a partner against ISIL. Therefore, any attempt by the Russians to achieve that is, in our view, misguided. We are, however, in diplomatic contact with the Russians, and we make our views clear.
Lord Reid of Cardowan (Lab)
My Lords, before the Government come back to Parliament in a few weeks’ time with, as we understand, a proposal for military action, can the Minister make sure that they outline their grand strategy, by which I mean not only the purpose of military action but the diplomatic, financial, humanitarian, political and military aspects of the overriding grand strategy? One reason why the Government failed last time to get agreement on military action in Syria was that there was a belief in this House and elsewhere that it was not part of an overall grand strategy, or at least that it had not been explained to Members of Parliament.
Earl Howe
My Lords, I take fully on board the comments of the noble Lord, with his immense experience in this area. The Prime Minister has made it clear that in order to facilitate further action in Syria he will return to Parliament; but, as he has said, it would be better if there were consensus in the House supporting such action. His views have not changed on that. What has changed is the growing evidence that ISIL poses a threat to us here in Britain. It is right for parliamentarians to be thinking about these issues and what more we can do, but I recognise that it will be vital for the Government to present a coherent case for action in Syria if that is what we decide is best.
The Role and Capabilities of the UK Armed Forces, in the Light of Global and Domestic Threats to Stability and Security
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The Minister of State, Ministry of Defence (Earl Howe) (Con)
My Lords, I am very grateful for the opportunity to speak to your Lordships on this timely subject. Events of recent months, from terror on a Tunisian beach to the great migration precipitated, in part, by the fallout from the evil actions of ISIL in Syria, Iraq and Lebanon, have reminded us once more that we live in a darker, more dangerous world. Yet global terror, whether from ISIL, Boko Haram or lone wolves, is far from the only problem facing us. When I last served in the Ministry of Defence 20 years ago, the Cold War was not long over. I could not have imagined that within two decades we would see Russia once more resurgent, threatening her neighbours and challenging our international rules-based order, almost as if the Berlin Wall had never come down.
All these issues pose direct and indirect threats to our national security and remind us of the importance of our Armed Forces. They underline that defence of the realm must always be a Government’s number one priority, and there can be no question—as some would have it—of the UK retreating to its goal line. On the contrary, we have to be more active than ever, levering our global influence and the strength of our Armed Forces to speak out and stand up to aggression wherever we find it. That is what our brave Armed Forces have been doing right around the globe.
They are doing so in the Mediterranean, where our ships are rescuing migrants; they are doing so in eastern Europe, where we are stepping up training of Ukrainian troops and where we have Typhoons patrolling Balkan airspace. Next year they will be back for the third year in a row. They are doing so in Iraq, where RAF Tornado and Reaper aircraft have now flown approximately 1,300 missions and conducted 288 strikes while our Tornados gather 60% of the coalition’s tactical reconnaissance. Are we making a difference? Yes. Thanks to this support, surrogate local forces have regained 25% of the territory ISIL held in Iraq after its advance last summer.
As the Prime Minister made clear in his Statement to the House of Commons last week, the Government will not hesitate to act in Syria, where ISIL’s command and control is based, or in Libya, should there be a direct threat to the British people. The recently successful precision strike against a UK national and two ISIL associates by an RAF remotely piloted vehicle shows our determination to take on and defeat the terrorists wherever they are hiding.
These are far from our only areas of activity. We are currently taking part in 21 joint operations in 19 countries—more than double the number of five years ago. The reason we have been able to maintain this impetus is because of the tough action we have taken over the last five years, ridding ourselves of a financial black hole of £38 billion, balancing the budget and reforming defence from top to bottom, so that we now have a more agile, better-equipped fighting force.
Yet the subtext of today’s debate is whether we will continue to have what it takes to address the ongoing threats of the future. Here, too, I believe we can answer in the affirmative for three reasons. First, we are investing in the capability we need for the future. One of the main results of our defence reform programme was that it enabled us to set aside a budget of £163 billion for equipment over 10 years. Consequently, we are now investing in the best capability money can buy, including Hunter Killer submarines, T26 global combat ships, fifth generation F35 fighters and the cutting-edge Scout vehicle, complete with a new cased telescope cannon.
Some of this kit is on display this week at the DSEI exhibition in Docklands. What you will not get the chance to see, because it is too big, is the first of our two 60,000 tonne Queen Elizabeth class carriers. These future flagships of our fleet are the most powerful vessels ever constructed in the UK. The fact that we are one of four countries in the world building carriers underscores our commitment to remain engaged in the world. Taken alongside our upgraded capabilities across all domains, it gives us a full-spectrum capability to be proud of.
My second point is that innovation is as much about tactics as about capability, and the tactics of our enemies are changing. They are using proxies to wage low-fi warfare and undermine other sovereign states; they are adept at cyberattacks, targeting not just military but civilian infrastructure such as banks and transport networks; and they are making increasing use of social media techniques to spread lies and misinformation, while luring impressionable minds into committing acts of terror against their own countries. To respond, we too must adapt, and we are doing so in a number of ways. We have the Army’s advance guard, 77 Brigade, working to become masters of the narrative and harness the internet to deliver a faster truth. We have the RAF working on a cyberstrategy and building cyber into the planning and execution of coalition missions. And when it comes to facing down terror, the Government are taking a full-spectrum response. We are publishing a comprehensive strategy to counter extremism that will improve our understanding of such fanaticism, introduce measures to promote our shared values and strengthen civil society to prevent extremism taking hold.
We have already joined forces with internet companies to take down more than 90,000 pieces of extremist material. We have trained thousands of local government workers to identify and prevent radicalisation and we have excluded nearly 100 preachers of hate from entry into Britain—more than any other country. Meanwhile, we are using moderate voices across the Middle East, north Africa and in the UK itself to air a counternarrative. The terrorists need to know that we will stop at nothing to stop their poison taking hold, so we are changing our tactics—but we also need to augment our strategy. The conflicts we are facing are global in nature and generational in duration, so we have to forge strategic partnerships with global allies if we are to confront and solve these issues. That is why the UK is continuing to strengthen its network of friendships and alliances. At a bilateral level, we are proud of our ongoing special relationship with the United States, where we work together across the world from the Baltic to the Indian Ocean, and have a regular dialogue with our counterparts across the pond, and we will soon mark five years of the Lancaster House treaty, which has augmented our ties with France.
Next year, our combined Joint Expeditionary Force will take part in an exercise to bring it up to full operating capacity. However, we are not just working bilaterally but multilaterally, especially as part of NATO, the cornerstone of our defence. We have been a leading voice for NATO reform, and since last year’s summit hosted in Wales, we have upped our game. We have committed 1,000 personnel to each year of the Very High Readiness Joint Task Force. We have also increased the number in NATO training exercises, from 3,000 to 4,000, and this month we will be contributing an Army brigade HQ battle group, naval task force and RAF Typhoon aircraft to Exercise Trident Juncture, the largest live NATO exercise for over a decade.
Critically, following the Chancellor’s Budget announcement, we will now also be committing to NATO’s 2% target for the next five years—a move that President Obama praised as sending,
“a significant signal from their primary partner on the world stage”.
The Chancellor’s announcement on defence was significant in two other respects. By emphasising that the defence budget would now grow, he has allowed us to invest any future savings we make in the organisation into front-line capabilities, whether in the latest high-tech gear or in the talented personnel to operate it. The Prime Minister has already said that some of this money will be used to augment our intelligence, surveillance and reconnaissance abilities and Special Forces.
A growing budget means that we now have essential breathing space to conduct our strategic defence and security review. We are not starting from scratch. SDSR 2010 provided the foundations for this review. It set the template for a far more agile and flexible force, able to meet the varied and multiple challenges of an uncertain age. Yet the reason we introduced regular five-year defence reviews was that we understood how much can change in a comparatively short space of time. With our major commitments in Afghanistan now delivered, this review presents an opportunity to refresh our thinking about the roles of defence, the way in which we direct defence activity and how we describe our outputs to the public.
Make no mistake: the review, now well under way, will be full and comprehensive. Led by the Cabinet Office in close consultation with relevant departments, it will be driven by our national security and foreign policy objectives. It will take a look at both traditional defence and security topics, as well as the complex risks we face in a rapidly changing world. It will also go further by creating a new framework for defence. That framework will ensure that we can maintain our operational and technological edge; recruit and retain the best people; forge stronger international relationships and stimulate trade and technology, as well as support industry; allow us to continue making strides on efficiency, since the more we do to reduce cost, the more we can put into the front line; and ensure that we maintain our reputation as a country with some of the best Armed Forces around—a country that is truly a global player. We will formally publish the national security strategy 2015 in late autumn. We anticipate that the SDSR will be closely aligned with the 2015 comprehensive spending review and should be published by the end of 2015.
We are living through what the Chinese might call interesting times. At such times, we are immensely grateful for the tireless work of our Armed Forces in defending our shores around the clock and we have spent the last few years making sure that they have the capabilities—despite financial constraints—to keep responding whenever the call comes. They have done us proud but the threats we face are constantly changing, so our review will help prepare us for what comes next. However, whatever the challenges to come, noble Lords should be clear that we are utterly unequivocal about one thing: the Government are determined to do everything in their power to keep our country safe and secure. I beg to move.
Earl Howe
My Lords, I think we would all agree that we have had a very constructive debate. I am exceedingly grateful for the contributions from all sides of the Chamber. I will try to deal with some of the points raised by noble Lords and noble and gallant Lords but I am conscious that I will probably be kept very busy writing letters for the next week or two as I do not think that I can answer in my closing speech every single question that has been put to me today.
The title of this debate asked us to take note,
“of the role and capabilities of the UK Armed Forces, in the light of global and domestic threats to stability and security”.
As all noble Lords are aware, that is a rather large field. We live in a world where, to use that almost eloquent Americanism, there are known unknowns and unknown unknowns. In looking at the ongoing strategic defence and security review, we are peering into a very dark glass indeed. However, we know for certain that this SDSR should be different from the last. Given the 2% commitment, it is certainly not about cuts. That enables me to start by addressing the defence budget.
My noble friends Lord King and Lady Fookes picked up on the sentence included in my opening speech which reinforced the Government’s recognition that defence must always be the Government’s number one priority. Lest there be any doubt on the matter, I re-emphasise that this is the view of government as a whole. The Summer Budget document published by the Treasury said:
“The first duty of government is to ensure the safety and security of the country and its people”.
That document formalised our commitment to spend 2% of GDP on defence until 2020. My noble friend Lord King questioned whether that would be enough. However, I remind him that that same document also committed to raise the MoD budget by 0.5% per annum in real terms over this Parliament. There will also be an additional £1.5 billion a year by 2020-21 in a new joint security fund.
The noble Baroness, Lady Smith of Newnham, took us to the issue of strategy and rightly challenged me on our thinking. The SDSR will be framed in the context of the national security strategy. The strategic context is fundamental to the work now under way. Our analysis suggests that the 2010 national security strategy judgment that we were entering an age of uncertainty, as the noble Lord, Lord Ramsbotham, mentioned, has been thoroughly vindicated in the intervening period. We anticipated that international terrorism would remain a major challenge and expected to see a range of domestic resilience challenges. Our decision to configure our Armed Forces to be flexible and adaptable to evolving threats has been proven correct.
However, we recognise that we have moved beyond the era of uncertainty to a period characterised best by heightened competition, instability and insecurity. I can tell the noble and gallant Lord, Lord Craig, that resilience is very much a principle that we are factoring into our deliberations. In general, procurement levels are set to allow for operational losses and sufficient reliance. I take his specific point about the need for credible, conventional combat power in addition to the deterrent. We are confident that the deterrent itself remains capable and effective and that we maintain sufficient and capable conventional forces.
The noble Baroness, Lady Smith, the right reverend Prelate the Bishop of Portsmouth and other noble Lords questioned whether it was the Government’s genuine aim for the UK to remain a major global player. We are clear that there will be no reduction in Britain’s influence overseas. Our military, security, diplomatic and development capabilities are respected globally. Our diplomatic network spans 268 posts in 168 countries and territories and nine multilateral organisations. The UK has world-leading intelligence agencies and Armed Forces, a strong police force and an impressive National Crime Agency. The UK led the EU’s response to the crises in Syria and Iraq, including responding to the threat from ISIL. The Government will continue to do more on forward defence, reducing the threats before they reach our borders.
The right reverend Prelate and the noble Lord, Lord Rosser, raised the issue of the SDSR process itself. In developing the NSS and SDSR, the Ministry of Defence, alongside the Cabinet Office, the FCO, DfID and the Home Office, has engaged with a broad range of internal and external stakeholders. We have met groups of external experts; hosted academic engagement sessions across the UK; participated in meetings with NGOs and industry round tables; we have briefed Back-Bench MPs, the House of Commons Defence Committee, interested Peers and the devolved Administrations. In total, we have discussed the review with more than 100 experts from nearly 40 different organisations and institutions. I can tell my noble friend Lord Selkirk that we have also engaged with international allies and partners and welcomed the public to write in with their thoughts. The right reverend Prelate, in particular, will wish to take note of the online poll that was conducted recently. We are serious about open policy-making. We have sought comments over the summer, as this gives us the time to analyse the results and feed them into the review process in a meaningful way. The poll is only one of several ways of engagement and offers the public another avenue for comment.
The noble Baroness, Lady Smith, my noble friend Lord Selkirk, the right reverend Prelate and other noble Lords spoke about the capabilities that we are reviewing in the SDSR. The SDSR is clearly an opportunity to re-examine our capability choices. In 2010, we highlighted that we would return to some questions in this review. Maritime patrol aircraft, ballistic missile defence and future combat aircraft fit into that category and they will all be considered. We also committed to considering NATO’s capability shortfalls and which ones we could help to mitigate. I am afraid it is too early to discuss options and decisions in detail, although I will comment on particular questions that noble Lords have raised in a second. The noble Lord, Lord Dannatt, asked whether defence engagement would become a formal military task. The framework by which defence activity is directed is currently being revised as part of the review. Defence engagement is clearly a very important defence function and is likely to be very prominent in the future framework for defence. I am afraid that is as far as I can go at the moment, but I hope he will take comfort from the fact that it is in our sights.
The noble Lord also asked me about army basing. The army basing programme enables the Army to reorganise into its new Army 2020 structures, and delivers the Government’s 2010 SDSR commitment to bring all UK military units back from Germany by 2020. The programme has been delivered jointly by the Defence Infrastructure Organisation and the Army. Although some units have already withdrawn from Germany to the UK, the majority of the 30 moves or re-roles conducted in 2013-14 were inside the UK. In the summer of this year, some 5,200 service personnel and their families, totalling 10,000 people, will have returned from Germany to the UK.
The final phase of the army basing programme involves the remaining units in Germany, principally 20th Armoured Infantry Brigade based in Paderborn, and completes a number of residual internal UK moves. The whole programme is still scheduled to complete by 2020. There are sufficient funds to complete the programme and it is on track. We were considering bringing it forward but have decided instead to leave the plans in place. There are no plans to leave any units or force elements in Germany.
The noble Baroness, Lady Smith, posed the question of why we are in Iraq and whether it was just because we had been invited by that country to provide assistance. Let me make it clear: ISIL threatens the people of the Middle East and poses a threat to our own national security. Defeating ISIL will take time and patience but it is a fight that we must win. The UK is part of a global coalition of over 60 countries, including Iraq, Arab nations, European partners and the United States, united to defeat ISIL. The UK contribution to the coalition effort is significant. We provide capability across the full spectrum of air power, including niche and highly advanced intelligence surveillance, reconnaissance and airstrike capabilities, and in many other areas. ISIL, as has been said, cannot just be defeated by military action. The underlying causes must also be addressed, which is why we are supporting inclusive governance in Iraq and political transition in Syria.
My noble friend Lord King rightly emphasised the importance of maintaining NATO as a strong and credible alliance to deter and face down any possible aggression. As I am sure he knows, the UK has made a significant contribution to NATO’s reassurance exercises since they came into being in May last year. NATO’s readiness action plan provides a comprehensive package of measures, including the development of the very high readiness joint task force and assurance measures to respond to changes in the security environment on NATO’s borders, including challenges posed by Russia. In my opening speech I mentioned the contribution that we were making and will continue to make in future. However, it is fair to say that the NATO summit in Wales in September last year demonstrated alliance solidarity at a time of tension on NATO’s borders, a tension that continues. It saw agreement on a number of key objectives, including NATO’s readiness action plan, which seeks to increase the responsiveness of allies through the development of the very high readiness joint task force, and by conducting assurance measures, particularly exercises in the eastern and Baltic states. Those exercises of course provide valuable training opportunities as well as contributing to the reassurance of Eastern allies.
The noble Lord, Lord Davies of Stamford, took me somewhat to task on several matters, including the so-called funding black hole in the MoD budget. I have no wish to irritate the noble Lord in the slightest. First, I readily acknowledge that many of the programmes that we are currently pursuing were initiated by the previous Labour Government. Ministers in that Government would perhaps not have been exposed to the £38 billion number, as it became apparent only during SDSR 2010 costing. The Government reported to the House of Commons Defence Committee on the figure of £38 billion in 2012. I am happy to write to the noble Lord with the figures that we provided to the committee at that time.
My noble friend Lord Attlee asked how we would ensure that no black hole would occur in the future. It is the job of Ministers to ensure that the MoD budget is in balance with its spending programme. The public spending envelope across government is now so strict and disciplined that it cannot be otherwise. It is our duty to report regularly and transparently to the Treasury and to account for our spending and our spending plans. Of course, we receive the benefit of its close oversight.
The noble Lord, Lord Davies, my noble friend Lord Selkirk of Douglas, and the noble Baroness, Lady Jolly, spoke about maritime patrol aircraft. We have acknowledged that we have a maritime surveillance capability gap following the decision not to bring the Nimrod MRA4 into service. However, we have also made it clear that it is one that we have chosen to accept. We have not sought to pretend otherwise. It is a gap that we have been able to mitigate through the employment of other assets, as noble Lords have mentioned, particularly also through co-operation with our allies who have deployed maritime patrol aircraft on several occasions.
We are conscious that this issue is in the sights of many people. It is very much in ours. It has been the subject of recent studies by the Ministry of Defence. We have received representations from a number of industrial organisations and those have allowed us to understand better the nature of the platforms currently in existence, as well as the timeframe in which novel technologies are likely to mature. I mentioned the support of our allies. Incidentally, that is not a one-way street. We supply support to our allies in return, such as air-to-air refuelling, surveillance and transport.
The noble Lord, Lord Davies, mentioned the F35 joint strike fighter. That is the world’s largest single defence programme. We have played an important role in the system design and demonstration phase, as he knows, resulting in significant contracts and jobs for UK industry. To date, we have taken delivery of three F35B aircraft. A further five for the UK are in production and are scheduled to be delivered in 2016 and early 2017. UK F35 initial operating capability is scheduled for 2018 and remains on track.
Earl Howe
I am coming to that. The F35 programme has been established as an incremental acquisition programme with production contracts being led initially on an annual basis. We will order sufficient lightning aircraft to build up our initial carrier strike capability, but the overall number of joint strike fighter aircraft to be purchased will not be determined before the strategic defence and security review at the earliest.
The noble and gallant Lord, Lord Boyce, referred to the Type 26 global combat ship, which will progressively replace Type 23 frigates from 2022 onwards. We are implementing an incremental approach to approvals and commitment on the T26 global combat ship programme, with separate approvals covering demonstration and manufacture phases. On current planning and subject to a main gate decision, the manufacture phase will begin in 2016. He asked about the national shipbuilding strategy. The strategy announced by the Chancellor on 30 January this year is progressing well and its conclusions will form part of the forthcoming strategic defence and security review later this year. The aim of that strategy is to help deliver world-class ships for the Royal Navy while ensuring the best value for money for the taxpayer. It will also ensure that the Navy continues to have the capability that it needs to protect our nation’s interests and ensure continued investment in UK warship production.
The noble Lord, Lord Rosser, referred to cyber. I readily agree that, in defence, cyber is essential to preserve our freedom to operate despite cyber threats and to achieve military effects through and in cyberspace. The whole of the defence supply chain also faces cyber threats. In 2013, the Defence Cyber Protection Partnership was launched as a joint government/industry initiative to increase the resilience of the defence sector. Our Armed Forces depend on equipment and services provided by industry. In government we face similar challenges, and we believe that that partnership will be of considerable value; indeed, it is already proving to be.
I will write to the noble Lord, Lord Dannatt, on the issues around industrial policy because they are very important. I would simply mention in particular the Defence Growth Partnership, which I believe will see us achieve a more thriving defence sector in the UK underpinned by work to improve international competitiveness and to target research investment more efficiently and effectively.
I cannot finish without referring to personnel issues, which my noble friend Lady Hodgson and the noble Lord, Lord Ramsbotham, among others, emphasised with considerable persuasiveness. The Armed Forces are changing to meet the Future Force 2020 structure, which requires reductions in some capabilities and the growth of others. They are actively recruiting to sustain manning balance across all skill sets, preserve future operational capability and support regular and reserve manning ratios. Recruitment continues to be supported by significant marketing activity in the current financial year. I say to the noble Baroness, Lady Jolly, that we need to increase attraction rates for a number of key trades such as medics and cyber engineers, nuclear, maritime and aviation. These are a particular issue due to national skills shortages. The latter issue is being explored in collaboration with other government departments. A joint team with industry has now been established and is undertaking a pathfinder project to allow the movement of skilled people across the defence sector.
With regard to the reserves, the new employment model that emerged from the 2010 SDSR aims to produce a modernised offer that reflects modern society. This is a wide-ranging review of the terms and conditions of service for service personnel, both regular and reserves, covering four broad policy areas: pay and allowances, accommodation, training and education, and career structures and career management. I will write further on where we are on recruitment and retention but I believe, as a result of a short brief I received this morning, that we are heading in the right direction.
With time moving on, with the leave of noble Lords I will cover just a few more issues. The right reverend Prelate raised the matter of women in ground close combat roles. That is not strictly an SDSR issue, as I expect he knows, but, following a review of the exclusion of women from ground close combat roles, my right honourable friend the Secretary of State for Defence announced at the end of last year that defence welcomes the prospect of opening ground close combat roles to women subject to the outcome of further physiological research before a final decision is taken in 2016.
The noble Lord, Lord Burnett, referred to the much discussed case of Sergeant Alexander Blackman, and I listened carefully to all that he said. There is a proper limit to what I can say in my ministerial capacity, as I know he recognises. But it is common knowledge that Sergeant Blackman appealed to the Court Martial Appeal Court, which incidentally is a wholly civilian court made up of the same judges who sit in the civilian Court of Appeal. The fairness and objectivity of that process was reflected by the decision on 22 May last year by the Court Martial Appeal Court, chaired by the Lord Chief Justice himself, which decided not to overturn the conviction of a life sentence. The court did reduce the minimum term Mr Blackman must serve from 10 to eight years. The full reasoning behind that judgment was published on the Ministry of Justice website, and it was based on the consideration of a range of factors that I will not go into. The MoD has, and can have, no view on Sergeant Blackman’s guilt or innocence. It would be improper for us to express a view. There is a legal process to determine that question. The MoD will however of course fully co-operate with the judicial process.
The noble Lord, Lord Dannatt, referred to the issue of Afghan interpreters and locally employed civilians. Our policy offers a redundancy relocation option that does not require local staff to prove that they are at risk. The policies of other NATO nations are largely based on asylum criteria. I would just say that the way that the Government’s policy and the implementation of that policy have been portrayed in the press has been wrong and misleading. We are the only nation with a permanent team of trained investigation officers in-country to investigate claims of intimidation. These experts have provided support to over 200 former local staff. A total of 500 local staff are eligible for relocation to the UK under the redundancy scheme, out of whom 170 have already moved to the UK along with their families, bringing the current total to 400. I am happy to write further to the noble Lord but I would add that the intimidation policy, which is quite separate from the ex gratia redundancy policy, allows for all current and former local staff members, regardless of dates or length of employment, whose safety has been threatened to approach us to consider relocation.
I have been advised that I have overshot my time. I will write to noble Lords about the other subjects that I have not been able to cover, notably the Armed Forces covenant. I listened very carefully to the comments from my noble friend Lady Buscombe on the Border Force command and listed buildings in Portsmouth.
I am conscious that I am in danger of exhausting the Committee’s patience, if I have not done so already, so I conclude by thanking all those noble Lords and noble and gallant Lords who have taken part in the debate. I look forward to writing to them over the next few days.
Business of the House
Earl Howe Excerpts(8 years, 8 months ago)
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The Minister of State, Ministry of Defence (Earl Howe) (Con)
My Lords, in the absence of my noble friend the Lord Privy Seal, the Leader of the House, and on her behalf, I beg to move the Motion standing in her name on the Order Paper.
Armed Forces Act (Continuation) Order 2015
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