Asylum Seekers: Accommodation in Hotels

Lord Harrington of Watford Excerpts

Tuesday 21st February 2023 Lords Chamber

[Lord Murray of Blidworth (Con)]

Unaccompanied asylum-seeking children who have arrived on a small boat are first referred to the Kent intake unit. Then there are five specific hotels for the use of unaccompanied asylum-seeking children, and as soon as possible they are transferred to the care of local authorities. This is clearly a priority and it is obviously a very important matter. I take on board entirely what the noble Lord said.

[Lord Harrington of Watford (Con)]

My Lords, the Minister will be aware that the Homes for Ukraine scheme has led to 150,000 refugees from another country being settled in this country in people’s homes, while Afghans who came a year prior to that are still largely in hotels. Will the Minister look at the Homes for Ukraine scheme, see what lessons can be learned, and make sure there is a standing scheme of sponsorship and hospitality which will take refugees from wherever the Government decide they should come?

[Lord Murray of Blidworth (Con)]

Of course I will look at the proposal that my noble friend recommends. The Homes for Ukraine scheme is different from Afghan applications for asylum in that it is anticipated—and indeed encouraged by the Government of Ukraine—that those Ukrainians will return to Ukraine after the danger has passed.

Ukraine Refugees: Mothers and Dependent Children Arriving in the UK

Lord Harrington of Watford Excerpts

Thursday 7th July 2022 Grand Committee

[The Minister of State, Department for Levelling Up, Housing and Communities and Home Office (Lord Harrington of Watford) (Con)]

My Lords, I thank everybody for their contributions, particularly the noble Lord, Lord Loomba. To put this in perspective for me—this is a personal statement, in a way—I started this job at the beginning of March. I agreed to do it for a limited period of time, the definition of “limited” being when the job is done. The noble Lord, Lord Paddick, has a smile on his face because I think he knows, as I do, that things tend to go on. I want to leave this job when it is generally felt that I have done what I can do.

I have spent four months with colleagues putting together a delivery team to do precisely that: to turn the Prime Minister’s promise of an uncapped refugee scheme into a delivery mechanism. I formally record my thanks to Michael Gove, now no longer the Secretary of State, for having the faith in me to do this job and for starting the whole sponsorship idea, which was loosely based on my experiences of dealing with Syrian refugees. It was done in a very limited way for Syrian refugees.

I state formally on the record that for personal reasons I have had the temptation to resign many times over the last few weeks, owing to well-documented activities culminating in what has happened over the last few days. I did not, however, because I believe the refugee job, with its responsibility for tens of thousands of people’s lives, is above all that.

What have we achieved? Please do not misunderstand me and think I mean all the comments in a positive way. I get concerned about everything I hear, but I go to bed at night thinking, “At least 90,000 people from Ukraine are safe in the UK, with a steady flow adding to that”. I do not say that in arrogance or to make out that any of the points made were wrong.

I met the noble Lord, Lord Loomba, for the first time only just before this debate; I am sorry that has not happened before. I offered to meet him next week, irrespective of what happened in the debate, but following his contribution I suggest that maybe we could have a meeting with Barnardo’s as well to discuss the points he specifically brought up. The organisation has not contacted me with those points, and I would be delighted to meet it formally. I am happy to meet the noble Lord informally, of course, as we arranged. The Pugin Room is fine for certain meetings, but we should sit down properly with Barnardo’s with our officials present.

I will go through some of the points the noble Lord brought up; they duplicate some of the other points, so I ask noble Lords to be patient with me. I am working closely with the DfE on qualifications. It has been brought to my attention, and I know there are ways. We are having to persuade professional bodies about qualifications in Ukraine, often in areas where we really need people—for example, nurses and professional people, as the noble Lord, Lord Paddick, said—so I am not oblivious to that, but I am afraid that efforts with professional bodies are rather slower than I would like them to be.

The noble Lord made quite a few points, and generally asked me to be alert to the different gaps in the system. It would perhaps help in my response to him and to some of the other comments made if I could go through the gaps that I perceive, remembering that we are all learning as we go.

The visa issue was mentioned by a few noble Lords, and the noble Lord, Lord Paddick, was very critical of the situation in his first interventions with me. I say that not critically; it is a question of fact. It was very difficult, as was said by various noble Lords, including my noble friends Lord Moynihan and Lord Cormack, that visas were taking far too long. I have made various undertakings to bring that down; I said I hoped to bring it down to 48 hours and within 14 days. I set that myself. We are not supposed to talk about targets because they are easy to shoot down if they are not achieved, but in my mind, and publicly, it was a target.

The visa system has changed. I do not know if any of your Lordships have seen it or tried it, but we now have an app-based system for visas, called AUK2; it is an automated system that eradicates the need to go to visa centres. For example, the biometric tests can now be done on phones. As to why it did not happen before, I am not a technical person but I can say that the system was not meant for this volume of people—it just was not. In the majority of cases now, people do not have to visit visa centres. I have tested this myself—I should say I have used people to test it—and, for non-complex cases, it takes sometimes two days, but certainly two to four days. That is far more acceptable than it was. Nevertheless, we can improve that.

I include my failure, despite my best intention, to comply with my undertakings to the noble Baroness, Lady Sheehan, on interpretation. It is very difficult, but we have improved the guidance on Russia and Ukraine. I accept her points, but I can only do what I can do. If the noble Baroness feels that I have let her down, I fully accept that criticism.

I would like to go on to positive things, but will address some of the negative things mentioned by noble Lords. Again, noble Lords should not misunderstand me; I take them in a positive way, and this is how we improve. Checks were mentioned by my noble friend Lord Cormack and others. What kinds of checks do we do? Why are families put into inadequate housing? He asked me for some numbers, and the number of unsuitable housing cases that have been reported to us is 55, on the question of sponsorship, and 280 in the case of family reunion. Our checks to find that out form part of what the local authority is paid for, at £10,500 per refugee. I am sorry; I keep looking at the clock—I will be as quick as I can, but I could go on about this kind of thing for hours. We have checks and balances within that system, but it sometimes fails. However, the scale of this is quite minor.

Homelessness is a big point that was brought up by many noble Lords, including the noble Lords, Lord Khan and Lord Paddick. I am very conscious of it. The actual number of cases is now comparatively small, but significant in my working: there are approximately 600, split 400 and 200 between the sponsorship and family schemes. The whole emphasis is to keep these people away from the homelessness register. Every week, I meet with local authorities. Councillor Georgia Gould, of the same party as the noble Lord, Lord Khan, and I have a very good relationship. She is one of a group I meet to discuss precisely the problem of how we stop people getting on the homelessness list.

One way is to improve the rematching process that was mentioned by the noble Lord, Lord Paddick, and others. It is quite new. At the moment, the local authorities are doing it themselves, with our guidance, but I hope to expand that as the six months come to an end. The noble Lord, Lord Paddick, and every Member who contributed to this debate asked what happens after six months. That is very important, and a big part of it is rematching. We are at three months now but soon, at the four-month stage, we will be writing to people to say, “Thank you very much for agreeing to do this for six months. Would you like to continue?” Otherwise, we will have to do rematching, and we will make it as quick as we can.

There are other ways of dealing with the problems that particularly the noble Lord, Lord Khan, mentioned. On what we are actually doing to help local authorities, they all have problems with homelessness and everything like that. It is true to say that we cannot create properties that do not exist. I think even the noble Lord, Lord Khan, would accept that the Government’s many powers do not include those in the short term. The plan that we are working on is getting more people into the private rental sector. How do we do that? Quickly, we are looking at schemes to help them with the deposit so that they can do it and, moving on from that, with an advance of the rent, et cetera, to get them working. I am going as speedily as I can through all these different points.

Points were made about banking and were brought up again in quite a few of the contributions. I am pleased to say that a number of banks will accept Ukrainians without all the stuff they cannot do—the credit records, proof of address and all those things. Those are in the guidance provided to refugees. It is on the internet and they are given a physical, paper welcome pack. I am afraid I cannot remember what banks they are but a number of them will do this for Ukrainians.

On the question about universal credit and £200 not being enough, that is a problem and we are really trying to speed up on it. The lights are flashing but—

[Baroness Scott of Bybrook (Con)]

No, you have two more minutes.

[Lord Harrington of Watford (Con)]

Oh fine, thank you very much. I will try to use them properly.

[Baroness Scott of Bybrook (Con)]

We were trying to turn them off.

--- Later in debate ---

[Lord Harrington of Watford (Con)]

I shall keep my head down and get on with the rest of this speech.

[Baroness Scott of Bybrook (Con)]

You have as much time as you like because it is an hour and a half.

[Lord Harrington of Watford (Con)]

Thank you very much. Right, I have no excuse at all now. I am really not trying to get out of this at all; it is just that I have been going through things quickly to try to get it done in that time.

On jobs, if I could go back to the noble Baroness, Lady Sheehan, and her well-discussed point about process in the system, we are working on a system with DWP to get more trained people to help them. It is interesting that the first ONS survey of this cohort showed that more than 60% of those over 18 were already in work. I am meeting a lot of people who are in work—and so pleased to be, as we are so pleased to have them in work. There are problems with transport, however. The Brighton example was mentioned by my noble friend Lord Moynihan, but generally people have to get to the jobcentre for that.

I meet every week—well, I met Ministers every week to discuss this but I am afraid I cannot possibly tell your Lordships quite who it will be next week. Particularly, the department for employment has been very helpful on this.

Quickly going through the other matters, now that I have a bit of extra time, I am seeing what I have missed out in my canter through the whole thing. I probably skipped over the point made by the noble Lord, Lord Paddick, too much. It was, basically: what support are we giving to local authorities? He knows this very well but, to put it on the record again, it was a well-negotiated consensus view that £10,500 per refugee—not per family—would cover most of it. I meet so many local authorities now and some of the people cost hardly anything and some, of course, cost far more than £10,500. Basically, they are doing a pool system.

I have not had reports that it is not enough money. I have heard worries about our unaccompanied minors scheme and that it is not enough for them. Of course, we made provision for where children need extra care, be that through intense social services or, unfortunately, to be taken into care. A lot of extra money is available for that. I think we support the local authorities well. They are very articulate and vociferous in their weekly calls to me on that. Again, I hope everybody realises that there are no political points in this at all. Everyone is really trying to help collectively, particularly the local authorities.

Perhaps they were a bit tongue in cheek, but I will just respond to the final comments from the noble Lord, Lord Khan, about what difference the new Secretary of State for Levelling Up will make. He got the job only three or four hours ago, but I was very pleased that he did, for a number of reasons. Apart from the personal friendship between us, he was the Secretary of State when I did the Syrian programme and was excellent with it. The whole purpose for appointing me in the first place was so that I am ring-fenced to deal with this work, but I am very optimistic that what Greg Clark, the new Secretary of State, does will do nothing to impair or impinge on it. In fact, I hope he will improve on it.

The noble Lord asked how the councils are supported. I have dealt with various points to do with that. I ask noble Lords for any feedback they have from any councils—I also ask all the MPs this in my weekly call—as we really do try to learn on the ground.

[Lord Moynihan (Con)]

On that point, would my noble friend the Minister be happy for me to populate my case study with the names and write to him accordingly, so that he could follow that up? Also, since the Minister mentioned his engagement with the banks and their commitments, if NatWest is on that list, could he make sure that it is aware that it is not being as effective as it committed to publicly? If it is not on the list, why not?

[Lord Harrington of Watford (Con)]

I wish I had that much influence with NatWest. I do not recall it being on the list, but TSB and Halifax are, for example. They are all quite well-known banks, but it is not just the big clearing ones. I would be delighted to hear any case studies, or indeed to meet personally with the refugees my noble friend knows, if he would like me to. Every week, I meet refugees and I find out a lot from it. I have found meeting MPs very helpful as well, because of course they meet constituents. I would be very happy to meet personally with my noble friend Lord Moynihan —I have not seen him since we were undergraduates together, but he will not remember that—or any of the refugees he mentioned. I would be very happy to bring them here to meet them and hear about their experiences.

[Baroness Sheehan (LD)]

I just want to confirm that NatWest is definitely in the scheme. It is the bank that my families are using; it is definitely in the scheme, and we were told that it takes 28 days to process those forms. The Vodafone scheme that is supposed to be helping Ukrainian refugees leaves much to be desired. There is lots of noise about its generosity but in fact those SIM cards, which are essential to setting up bank accounts and everything that follows from them, are not readily forthcoming.

[Lord Harrington of Watford (Con)]

I had heard of the Vodafone Foundation in the context the noble Baroness mentioned, with a lot of noise, et cetera. I am very happy to meet it. In fact, I had a meeting yesterday with someone who does a programme with Vodafone in other countries, but I will now ask to meet the Vodafone people directly, because its involvement is trumpeted—that is the correct word for Hansard.

I have missed the comments from the noble Lord, Lord Khan, on PTSD. At the moment, it has not become a problem. This could be because it is not being reported. It could be because people are keeping things inside, because they just got away from a traumatic situation. I suspect it is beneath the surface. At the refugee groups I talk to, you meet people who are beautifully spoken—perhaps a mother with young children. You could easily think on the surface that you were attending a kids’ playgroup like those you go to up and down the country, but when you get talking, you can see what is just under the surface. I thank the noble Lord for flagging this. At the moment, it is not a problem, but we are on alert, via the local authorities.

I must conclude; I have probably gone well over my time.

[Lord Cormack (Con)]

I mentioned universities’ twinning schemes. Does the Minister have any comments on that area?

[Lord Harrington of Watford (Con)]

I have nothing but encouragement, as my noble friend knows, but they have not proceeded to the extent that I want. I had extensive conversations with the DfE about it, as he knows—who will be there next week, I could not tell him—but he is always on at me about it in a very positive and proper way. I am not oblivious to it.

In summary, if I may, I know that things are not perfect, I really do. Some people say that people criticise me all the time. Well, I am pursued around the House of Lords, particularly—and to a lesser extent by the House of Commons—by people with experiences, and I want to learn about them. Sponsorship is very difficult because, by nature, it is full of well-meaning people. Who would put their name down if they were not well-meaning, except, as has been brought up, when there may be a few really bad eggs? But most of those that have not worked out were not because of bad eggs, but because people did not really consider quite what it involved.

However, this is evolving. My real hope is that when it is done, instead of wrapping it up and burying it in the annals of civil service and governmental history, as happened with the Syrian scheme—it was completed and then moved off—that this becomes the way that we can deal with flows of refugees from all over the world, from whatever terrible disaster, which unfortunately happens all the time in our history. That is my hope and it all keeps me going, but I thank noble Lords for their contributions to this debate, all of which are gratefully received.

Committee adjourned at 3.46 pm.

Ukrainian Asylum Seekers and Refugees

Lord Harrington of Watford Excerpts

Tuesday 7th June 2022 Lords Chamber

[Lord Dubs]

To ask Her Majesty’s Government how many Ukrainian asylum seekers and refugees have arrived in the United Kingdom since the invasion of Ukraine by Russia.

[The Minister of State, Department for Levelling Up, Housing and Communities and Home Office (Lord Harrington of Watford) (Con)]

I thank the noble Lord for his Question. As of 29 May, 65,700 people have successfully come to the UK from Ukraine. That includes 23,100 on the Ukraine family scheme and 42,600 under our Homes for Ukraine sponsorship scheme. We are now operating at about 5,000-plus applications per week. The visas take between two and three days, if there are no problems attached to them; I said 48 hours at my first outing at the Dispatch Box in this House. The number of applications awaiting conclusion is about 19,000, which includes applications at various stages of the caseworking process and with different levels of complexity.

If I may, I will briefly mention to the noble Lord, Lord Dubs, unaccompanied children—the second part of his Question. As he is aware—we have discussed this many times—our policy has been not to accept children on their own, in keeping with the Ukrainian Government’s policy, unless of course they are reuniting with a parent or legal guardian here. As a result of his questions, many discussions with MPs, noble Lords, officials, the Ukrainian Government, local authorities and—oh, sorry.

[Lord Dubs (Lab)]

My Lords, the Minister is confirming that we are not taking any unaccompanied children from Ukraine—a clear statement of government policy—even if the host family has been fully vetted, despite the fact that when they applied it was okay for them to apply for a visa as unaccompanied children. The Government have banned it subsequently. The Home Office said on May 6:

“Where we are made aware of an individual being provided with incorrect advice, we will of course take action”.


How can the Government justify leaving vulnerable, unaccompanied children frightened in a war zone? We cannot do that.

[Lord Harrington of Watford (Con)]

I was about to explain to noble Lords our policy on children who have parental consent or that of a legal guardian as accepted by the Ukrainian Government. I hope to announce a policy change in the days to come. Regarding the children the noble Lord is referring to, it is very much government policy to help the agencies helping children on the ground in Poland, Moldova—where I have been—and Romania.

[The Earl of Kinnoull (CB)]

My Lords, one possible result of the Ukraine family scheme is the delivery of a physical biometric residence permit to the successful applicant in the post. This is a free process and I thoroughly applaud it. What plans do the Government have to extend that to the EU settlement scheme?

[Lord Harrington of Watford (Con)]

I am not aware of any plans the Government have to extend that to the EU settlement scheme.

[Lord Paddick (LD)]

My Lords, at a Home Affairs Select Committee meeting on 11 May, a senior Home Office official said that undocumented people who travel from Ukraine to the UK could be considered for removal to Rwanda and the Minister refused to say whether Ukrainians who arrive in the UK across the channel by boat could also be sent to the central African country. If, out of desperation because of the significant delays the Minister has just told the House about—19,000 applicants are still awaiting an outcome—these people arrive in the UK without a visa, could they be sent to Rwanda?

--- Later in debate ---

[Lord Harrington of Watford (Con)]

I can assure the noble Lord that there are two very good legal channels for refugees from Ukraine to come to this country. There is therefore no reason at all for them to be sent to Rwanda or anywhere else other than, I hope, back to Ukraine when the political and military situation allows.

[Baroness Chakrabarti (Lab)]

My Lords, with respect, the Minister did not quite answer the question asked by the noble Lord, Lord Paddick. If such a person arrived from Ukraine without a visa, might they be considered for being shipped off to Rwanda?

[Lord Harrington of Watford (Con)]

I can assure the noble Baroness that there is no reason at all why they should come here without a visa. It takes 48 hours to get a visa and there are very good legal routes for them to come here.

[Lord Alton of Liverpool (CB)]

My Lords, does the Minister recall that I drew to his attention the procedure I saw in Vilnius for arriving Ukrainian refugees? Every single arrival was asked individually about what they may have witnessed or seen on the ground in places such as Bucha, Mariupol or some of the other places subjected to war crimes and atrocities. Has the noble Lord been able to put similar procedures in place in the United Kingdom? Does he not accept the importance of collecting evidence while it is fresh in people’s minds, especially as there are now court cases taking place in Ukraine and the International Criminal Court is also considering proceedings?

[Lord Harrington of Watford (Con)]

The noble Lord makes an excellent point and, I must say, one that I had not considered within my remit. I think it is something the Government should be doing, however, and I assure him that I will make inquiries about it. Perhaps I could write to the noble Lord in the next few days.

[The Lord Bishop of Chichester]

My Lords, what assessment have the Government made of the number of Ukrainians currently here on economic or student visas who may soon be at risk of overstaying their visa and may be unable to return home, and of the sort of support that they might require and be given?

[Lord Harrington of Watford (Con)]

Again, that is an excellent question. We do not know the number of visas that are running out but I know that we have measures in place to make sure that when those visas—student visas, work visas and other types—run out they will be extended in this country and there will be no need for those people to return to Ukraine should they not want to do so.

[Lord Soley (Lab)]

The Government are rightly focusing on Ukrainians, but can the Minister tell me whether the Government have any policy towards the several hundred thousand Russians who have fled Putin’s Russia and will be very important for a post-Putin Russia? They are scattered all over Europe and surrounding areas. What attention do the Government give to those people and the enormous asset they can be to the West generally in its battle against Putin?

--- Later in debate ---

[Lord Harrington of Watford (Con)]

I fully accept that those people could be a major asset to this or any other country. I am not aware of a separate policy for them. Of course, they could claim asylum as refugees and there are all the other routes to come into this country, but I will look into it.

[Lord Kirkhope of Harrogate (Con)]

My noble friend will no doubt remember the United Nations scheme for Bosnian refugees. I was the Minister responsible for that in the 1990s. Can my noble friend confirm whether the categories relating to Ukrainians coming here could have the support of the United Nations behind them, so that we have a scheme specifically put aside and the treatment of those people coming from Ukraine avoids some of the tougher things said recently by Ministers?

[Lord Harrington of Watford (Con)]

I reiterate what I have said before to my noble friend: we have a system for Ukrainian refugees to come to this country legitimately. It is my duty and honour to make sure that scheme works and that as many Ukrainians as possible fleeing the misery and all the terrible things happening there come here.

[Lord Campbell of Pittenweem (LD)]

My Lords, may I refer the Minister back to an answer he gave a little while ago? Can we accept from what he said that there are certain circumstances in which those fleeing war zones may be sent to Rwanda—yes or no?

[Lord Harrington of Watford (Con)]

I reiterate that refugees from Ukraine are perfectly welcome to come here and there is absolutely no reason why they should be sent to Rwanda. They are welcome here, we have accommodation for them, local authorities are paid to look after them and we have already welcomed nearly 70,000.

[Lord Ponsonby of Shulbrede (Lab)]

My Lords, in the case of children accompanied by a parent or a legal guardian, should the children always be treated the same way? The reason I ask is that a case has been brought to my attention in which the parents and the elder child received visas in the normal way but the family had to travel a substantial distance to get a visa for the younger child. What possible explanation could there be for this? Surely this is just a source of delay for the family travelling to safety in this country.

[Lord Harrington of Watford (Con)]

The noble Lord makes an excellent point. There is a source of delay where there has been an identification problem with the youngest child. I hope the new system we have in place now means that that is not necessary. If they have to go to a visa centre—I have observed this happening in Warsaw and elsewhere—it is only because there is no way we could identify that very young child with the parent. We look for the lightest possible method of identification. In fact, I have seen a letter from the doctor who delivered a baby being considered acceptable. We have to satisfy ourselves that young children are indeed who the mother or relative says they are. I accept that it has led to hardship where there has been a big delay and I hope that will not happen again.

Homes for Ukraine: Visa Application Centres

Lord Harrington of Watford Excerpts

Thursday 28th April 2022 Lords Chamber

[The Minister of State, Department for Levelling Up, Housing and Communities and Home Office (Lord Harrington of Watford) (Con)]

My Lords, with the leave of the House, I shall now repeat in the form of a Statement the Answer to an Urgent Question in the other place from my honourable friend Kevin Foster, the Minister for Safe and Legal Migration. The Statement is as follows:

“The whole country is united in horror at Putin’s grotesque war, and we stand with the Ukrainian people.

We are delighted that so many British people have already put forward generous offers of help to displaced Ukrainians. Nearly 90,000 visas have been issued so that people can rebuild their lives in the UK through the Ukraine family scheme and Homes for Ukraine. Our visa application centre footprint in Europe has traditionally been small, in line with demand. This is because EU nationals had freedom of movement and, post Brexit, EU nationals do not need visas to visit the UK, with applications from EEA nationals for skilled worker and student visas able to be done from home via our fully digital application route.

As the Ukrainian crisis escalated, we increased our appointment capacity across Europe. We have gone from offering some 2,000 appointments a week in Europe to 13,500 appointments. Within days, we established a new VAC in Lviv, and we kept our VAC running in Kyiv right up until the Russian attack was launched. We also established a new application point near the Polish border with Ukraine. We were able to offer walk-ins and on-the-day appointments to all customers wishing to apply for the initial family concession route and fulfil all appointments when they were required.

I am pleased to advise the House that VAC appointments are readily available in all locations across Europe and, in the majority of locations, are available on the same day for customers looking to book a slot. As we have said throughout, we will continue to stand shoulder to shoulder with the people of Ukraine.”

[Lord Coaker (Lab)]

My Lords, I thank the Minister for that, but why, despite the Minister’s best efforts, is a bureaucratic nightmare the reality for many Ukrainians fleeing war? The most alarming thing is that the people bearing the brunt of the Home Secretary’s failures are young children. Babies, young children and their families fleeing war are forced to travel hundreds of miles across Europe to get biometrics done. The problem has been reported for weeks, and we have already raised it in the Chamber, so what is being done about it? Apparently, even once a visa approved, the Home Office is failing to tell people that they are finally welcome in the UK. Why is it that 71,000 visas have been approved but that, so far, only 21,600 people have arrived here safely? I know that the Minister knows this and is working hard on it, but it needs fixing urgently.

[Lord Harrington of Watford (Con)]

I thank the noble Lord for his response. His first question was why young children need to have their biometrics done, and he said that it could mean they have to travel a long way to do it. The reason why they have to have their biometrics done, and the reason why all this procedure takes place, is simply to make sure that they are indeed the children of the parent they are with. I have visited a VAC, having taken notice of what the noble Lord, Lord Coaker, said—as I always do and as indeed I did when he was in the other place—because it is very serious. It is about as light-touch as is imaginable. For example, I saw a young child whose only form of identification to show that she was indeed the child of that mother was a letter from the doctor who delivered the child in Ukraine. That was acceptable, as are birth certificates. There is not a very high level of proof, but we just have to make sure because of our information about traffickers of young children. I know that the noble Lord would sympathise with that.

The noble Lord’s second question was, why do we not tell people when they have got the visa? There have been delays, and I am now assured that that is not the case. I am sure that the noble Lord will have me here at this very Dispatch Box if he has reports to the contrary, but he knows he could tell me that personally beforehand.

Finally, the noble Lord asked why there are so few arrivals compared to the total amount of visas. This has been perplexing me. The main reason for my recent visit to Poland was to try to find out why it has happened. There are a number of reasons, and I have commissioned some professional research on it given the number of people who have got visas compared to the number coming, so I can give the noble Lord only my opinion based on what I saw. I think that there are two reasons. One of them is that it has taken too long for people to get the visas from the time of their application—I accept that and have done my best to make sure that it is not the case, and we are now at “friction”, which means that the target of 48 hours should in the vast majority of cases be met.

The second reason—again, this is not research or a systematic poll or anything like that; it is from speaking to people involved—is that many of the refugees take our visas out in case the worst happens beyond now, but, for the moment, a lot of them believe that they can go back and live in their country, and they wish to stay as close as possible. I have had quite a few moving experiences in Syria and other places, but seeing young women speaking on mobile phones to their husbands and fathers who are fighting in live time—which I know can obviously be done with technology—I can imagine why they want to stay as near as possible. I am working on this, and I intend to make sure that the system is simplified and that we have people helping people through the procedure. If necessary, we will move on to helping them with flights and with everything in the process.

[Lord Paddick (LD)]

My Lords, a brief answer from the Minister would be appreciated. Initially, the Home Office said that Ukrainian refugees had to have a visa because of concerns that Russian agents would pretend to be refugees. The Home Office then changed its mind and said that Ukrainian refugees had to have a visa because of concerns, as the Minister has said, about trafficking. Yet, all other European nations have accepted Ukrainian refugees visa free because the Ukrainians put systems in place to protect vulnerable people, and so did the countries receiving them. A Home Office whistleblower told the Guardian on Saturday that the system was “designed to fail”. Is that not nearer the truth?

[Lord Harrington of Watford (Con)]

I thank the noble Lord, Lord Paddick, for his comments and will try to be as brief as he wants me to be. On the reasons for the visas, I do not recognise the one about the infiltration of secret agents. I do, however, recognise the point about safeguarding, trafficking and so on. I hope that the noble Lord knows that I have done my best to ensure that this procedure is carried out as quickly as possible, but I make no excuses for our trying to identify that people who come here are who they say they are before they arrive. This is very important.

I do not accept what the whistleblower has said in the Guardian. I would like them to come and speak to me, and I would be very happy to go through it with them—that is how I run my whole ministry. I do not recognise that point.

[Baroness Falkner of Margravine (CB)]

My Lords, I declare an interest as chair of the Equality and Human Rights Commission. I endorse the point made by the noble Lord, Lord Paddick: as many people as possible want to get in on this, and I will be very brief indeed. Will the Minister please ensure that local authorities respect Section 149 of the Equality Act and enforce their obligations under the public sector equality duty in order to ensure that Ukrainians are not discriminated against as they resettle here?

[Lord Harrington of Watford (Con)]

I can assure the noble Baroness that I will ensure that there is no discrimination at all in the way Ukrainians settle here. I will write to her on the specific point regarding of the Act of Parliament she mentioned.

[Baroness Neville-Rolfe (Con)]

My Lords, I thank my noble friend the Minister for the online briefing he has been giving to parliamentarians, and would like an assurance that this will continue because it helps to answer our questions. The visa process has been slow, if robust, and I am interested to hear the total numbers we are planning for.

[Lord Harrington of Watford (Con)]

I thank my noble friend for that question. Yes, I am continuing the online briefings. I have tried to have some online and some face to face; I do a weekly one for MPs. Today, I am circulating a programme right through to the Summer Recess, hopefully, for when these facilities are available. On the second point, I can do nothing but agree with my noble friend.

[Lord Dubs (Lab)]

Can the Minister confirm that there are no problems regarding children who are due to come here but who have been delayed because of a lack of visas? Sometimes, families are being split up; some family members are getting visas and others are not. There is a distressing story of a 17 year-old girl who is stuck and vulnerable; her mother wants her to come here but she cannot come with her. Her family is waiting for her, but nothing is happening.

--- Later in debate ---

[Lord Harrington of Watford (Con)]

I can confirm to the noble Lord, Lord Dubs, that I have looked at every single individual case and hope that the cases to which he referred will be cleared up very quickly—in the next one or two days.

[Lord Alton of Liverpool (CB)]

My Lords, from my own visit to Vilnius and the centre where 1,000 people are arriving every single day, I can confirm what the Minister has said about the desire of many to stay within the region in the hope that they will be able to return as quickly as possible to Ukraine. I raised with the Minister the specific example of a small British charity working in the Ukrainian-speaking area in Romania which does not qualify for the Disasters Emergency Committee funding because it is a small charity and not part of DEC. Surely, we should be doing more to assist charities like the one I have raised with the Minister to enable people to stay for as long as possible where they are, if that is their desire, and recognise that their visas may well indeed just be an insurance policy in case things do not work out.

[Lord Harrington of Watford (Con)]

I agree entirely with the noble Lord. I have pressed the FCDO, which is responsible for our on-ground response there, to make sure that this work is done. I am also commissioning a particular piece of work to help unaccompanied children, because I feel it is very important.

[Lord Cormack (Con)]

My Lords, it is several weeks since I raised with my noble friend the letter sent by a group of rectors and vice-rectors of universities. Can he tell me how many academics have now been issued with visas under this scheme, which is sponsored at this end by Universities UK?

[Lord Harrington of Watford (Con)]

I am afraid I cannot give my noble friend the answer I wanted to because, ironically, I was due to have a meeting with the Minister at the DfE at 11 am today to discuss that when this Urgent Question came about. However, I will make sure that he has a Written Answer to that question.

Ukraine: Refugees

Lord Harrington of Watford Excerpts

Wednesday 6th April 2022 Grand Committee

[The Minister of State, Department for Levelling Up, Housing and Communities and Home Office (Lord Harrington of Watford) (Con) (Maiden Speech)]

My Lords, the past two hours, for once in my life, have left me more or less speechless. I promise noble Lords that that does not mean I am going to sit down. My maiden speech has been much-trailed. I should have thought that I had spoken so many times that noble Lords would have had enough of me by now, anyway, before I had actually made my maiden speech. However, this is officially it. I must say that it is hard for me to be jovial, which I hope Members of the House of Lords and the other place who know me realise is my normal disposition. I have found it hard to be jovial in this role. Having said that, I will do my best to be so, at least for the next few minutes, before I return to the more serious business of today.

The noble Lord, Lord Coaker, with whom I have had many dealings of a constructive nature in the other place, was complimentary about me. It is touching the way in which Members of this House have treated me with courtesy, respect and, I am afraid, hope. The burden is very much on my shoulders. In the Commons, maiden speeches are a formula—a nice one—whereby one is kind about one’s predecessor, who in my case was Claire Ward. As the noble Lord will know, being kind was not difficult because she was a nice person who did a lot, having, as the youngest of the “Blair babes”, as they were called, been elected in 1997. She had a good career and remains a kind person. That bit is easy. Then, one talks about the place one is fortunate enough to represent. As I first worked there in 1979, that was not difficult to do. Then, one talks nicely about the plans for one’s constituency. Again, that is not difficult. Everyone is nice about the speech and the speaker who follows from the other side is complimentary, whatever one has said. Even if it was said poorly, people are nice about it. I thought, “That’s it. I’ve cracked this. Speaking in the House of Commons is quite easy.”

Unfortunately, the next time I spoke the former colleague of the noble Lord, Lord Coaker, Ed Balls—a fine man in many ways, who I was looking at while I was speaking—started shouting at me and booing. I had been a Chelsea season ticket holder for many years, but lest anyone should feel that I am linked with Abramovich, it started in 1983 when he was a mere baby oligarch, doing whatever he did in Russia. I thought that the noise was bad at Chelsea—until I went to the House of Commons. Of course, that is not the case in this House, where there is not quite the same noise. However, I do find it disconcerting in this Chamber, where people are courteous and the Lord Speaker sits there in a civilised manner, when people start shouting about their right to speak. As the Minister on the Front Bench, you think they are shouting at you. In the Commons, they would be, whereas in the Lords they are actually just shouting in order to be able to speak.

My path here has been an absolute privilege. We are talking about refugees mainly. The family of one my grandparents were refugees, ironically from Russia. The other grandparents’ ancestors have been here since 1667, thanks to Oliver Cromwell, so perhaps I should not use that as an example. However, I am here today because of the Russians and the Cossacks and their virulent anti-Semitism. One of my grandparent’s ancestors’ families came from Odessa. I am afraid that I cannot compare my experiences in any way to that of my noble friend Lady Helic, whom I first met many years ago on a trip to Israel, where she showed me that she knew far more about the subject than I did, and she has continued to do that today.

The father of my actual and noble friend Lord Finkelstein—Danny Finkelstein—who was brought up in the same way I was, which is to believe that this country is the finest country in the world, used to say, “As long as the Queen is safe in Buckingham Palace, we are safe in Hendon.” There is a lot of truth in that and in what this country has given us all. I was brought up to believe it.

My path has been a privileged one, although not necessarily financially privileged. My father was a market stallholder and I worked there from the age of 10. He got annoyed when I told people that because it implied that I was accusing him of child exploitation. In fact, of course, it was not that. I begged him to be allowed to go on Saturdays, which I did. I was fortunate enough to be the first member of my family to, as they put it, even get one O-level. I was fortunate enough to get a scholarship to Oxford and I have been lucky in life. I started two businesses with friends, I ran a children’s charity for three years and I have had quite a lot of different experiences, good and bad—but most people have when you get to speak to them and I know that most members of this House have. In the end, it has been a privileged life.

My first experience with refugees, other than family stories, was when David Cameron, the former Prime Minister, called me quite late on a Saturday evening. His Private Secretary had called and asked, “How late can the Prime Minister call you?” It was strange settling at 10 pm. I said, “As late as you like. Why so late?” and he said, “He’s at Balmoral with the Queen. By convention we’re not allowed to call anyone until she goes to bed and we’re not sure what time she goes to bed.” It was to offer me the Syrian refugee job. That was a cross-government job.

I did not know a thing about it on the Saturday night, apart from what I had read in the newspapers, and it was a very quick education. I have experience of the countries around Syria and of parts of Syria itself, but I can never feel the same as my noble friend Lady Helic feels. Of course I cannot. When you read about something or see it, it is not the same as experiencing it. Without going into great detail because of time constraints—I know noble Lords want me to get on with what I am here for—it meant that the other jobs, the businesses, the charities, the politics and all that were nothing. I was quite upset on the day that David Cameron resigned—I will not get into the Brexit debate, which some noble Lords have mentioned—and in the afternoon he called me on my mobile. He said, “This is my last thing. I am in Witney”—his constituency in Oxfordshire—“We have six Syrian families that you’ve settled here and I just want you to know that it was all worth while.” I was crying, which among a roomful of civil servants is not a good thing to do.

To finish the maiden speech bit of the maiden speech, I must thank all Members of this House and the Doorkeepers. It is amazing how many Doorkeepers come from Watford. This is a secret. During my introduction, the gentleman who helped me on with the robe said, “You spoke to my school.” In 2010, I spoke at his school. He was in the sixth form and was there on that day, which was very moving. All the staff have been wonderful and I have received support from everyone.

Unfortunately, the fact that everyone is so nice makes it worse, not better, because it is impossible to get angry with anyone who comes up to me or follows me about, whether I am having a cup of tea or speaking in a debate. Instead, I say, “Well, what can I say? I took the job on.” It is not politics for me, although, to give Boris Johnson credit, he offered me the job unconditionally because he thought that I could do it properly. I do not think that anyone could say that it was a political appointment in the conventional sense, but he has put a lot of trust in me and I do not want to let him down. I know that he believes in what all of us here believe in. People may have their views and different politics, but, on this, I am convinced of what he said to me: this is an uncapped scheme. He meant it.

I have heard a lot of conversation from people—it has been mentioned in several speeches today—about the Home Office’s talk of the hostile environment. Honestly, I have not seen it. I have also not seen the feuding mentioned in the newspapers of the noble Lord, Lord Coaker—he seems very knowledgeable about the Sun these days; the House of Lords has probably done that to him. I am sure that he was a Guardian man at one stage—

[Noble Lords]

Oh!

[Lord Harrington of Watford (Con)]

I withdraw that comment; it has obviously offended him. But, in all seriousness, I have not seen the reported feuding between departments. Perhaps it happens when I am not there, but I see meetings with Priti Patel and Michael Gove every day and I have heard raised voices—because we are all trying to do the same thing—but not at each other. But then I read in the newspaper that these wars take place. I could not possibly know what happens behind the scenes, but I have not experienced that myself.

I will pick out the main points brought out in the moving story of my noble friend Lady Helic—I wish that I could answer everything like this—and I would be happy to follow up with her personally, either through correspondence or informally afterwards, to talk about them. Her worries about trafficking are the most serious worry. She and other noble Lords have mentioned the security checks and it is true that, as I said in the Chamber when someone mentioned them to me, I at first assumed that this meant spy security and I thought, “These people are mainly women and children. They are not being given jobs at GCHQ but are living in people’s spare bedrooms and flats.” But it is not that.

It all comes down to a decision that has been taken—many people have different views—on whether we need to identify people before they come here. Regarding identification of people leaving countries that are at war and where traffickers and other people are, how much of a duty do we have to make sure that we know who people are before they get here? The current system basically asks, “Do you have a Ukrainian passport? Are you on any form of watchlist or anything like that? If you have children with you, can we be sure—not perfectly sure—that they are yours and that this is not a front for trafficking? Does your sponsor have a criminal record or anything to do with that?” That is really it. I say that not glibly or simply but, in the end, that is what we are checking and it has taken far too long to do it.

I wish that I could stand here and say to noble Lords not that they are all talking rubbish—that is not right—but that I reject the criticism. It is not at all like the Brexit arguments, for example, where people have different views. I hear these things all day from people and they are not making it up. The newspapers obviously pick out things to be sensationalist and the noble Lord, Lord Paddick, quotes the Telegraph a lot—I do not think that that would be his reading matter in normal circumstances. I hope that he is not too offended by that comment; it was meant as a compliment. In this case, he raised very serious points. The papers have done a good job.

I will quickly refer to what my noble friend Lady Helic said. On safeguarding, do we do advanced DBS checks and should we do them before everyone comes? That would hold things up more. Alternatively, do we do what we do now, which is basically a police national computer thing and then advanced checks when they get there, if there are children in the house? These are all decisions that we really need to take.

On the noble Baroness’s point about unaccompanied minors, I have had a lot of problems on this. For perfectly understandable reasons, the Ukrainian Government are really averse to us taking unaccompanied minors. Their policy is to keep children in the areas around Ukraine; they do not want them resettled. On the much-publicised case of the children from the Dnipro orphanage, I shall actually take umbrage with the papers, since it was widely reported that it was the Home Office that held it up. It was not—it was a question of us getting permission from the Ukrainian Government, who did not want these children moved. We might have to look at that again, but their policy is very clear at the moment.

Noble Lords made a point about ongoing support, particularly on extra money for local authorities for trauma support. The noble Baroness brought up mental health, but I am sure that she also meant the physical side. Yes, in theory, the £10,500 per year is to include that but, in the end, if there are trauma cases, we will have to provide extra money to do it, and we have the facility to do that.

On the noble Baroness’s points about the Afghan hotels—and I know I am supposed to keep to the 20-minute limit—I want to confirm that there are far too many people in hotels. However, they do get the full benefits, the right to DWP stuff, including work coaches, and all those other things. I may be able to refer to that later.

To do some justice to the other speakers, I will briefly mention the point made by the noble Lord, Lord Hannay, about the gap between my rhetoric—and I do not think he meant it in a bad way at all—and reality. That is absolutely true: I say what I want and hope for but, as yet, it has not been delivered. I cannot really say more than that, other than that every waking hour that we are doing this, we are trying to deliver on it.

I have dealt with the spy point. I can confirm to the noble Lord, Lord Hannay, who asked whether we spend time with the EU states on trying to have a common policy, that we do. The Home Secretary is meeting internationally with the G7 group but also with the European Union. In my opinion, we really need a much more comprehensive policy for everyone. Of course, it is not just about refugees; it is about what we do on the ground. All the briefings say that this country has a proud record and, on the humanitarian aid side, we are doing pretty well. That is not complacency at all; we are one of the main donors. People think that it is the British Government spending money directly, but it is not; it is coming via organisations such as the UNHCR, the IOM and all the other ones. We need to do this with other countries, jointly, and refugee programmes need to be done with international co-ordination.

I have referred to this before, but we are not actually sure how many of the refugees want to come to the UK. Ukrainian estimates from the four MPs that I met the week before last were that only a minority would. It is our job to make sure that, on the ground over there, everybody knows about it. An SMS message is going live, I think today, to everybody crossing the border, certainly into Poland, and we have leaflets in different languages. My target is that every single refugee is told about what we have to offer, but that should be in co-ordination with offering what all the other countries offer. We have a very good system, with benefits and housing and all that sort of thing, but I would not like to think that anybody did not know about it. I have been advised not to do this at the border, because people are traumatised; they have just come across the border—they literally do not know what they are doing—so it should be done again when they get to various centres. We help to fund the IOM moving large numbers of people in buses away from the border area.

So, first, people should know about it; and secondly, are they being given enough help with the forms? We keep talking about visas, but really it is just a form of identification. Had I been doing this job a month ago, which I was not, I am sure that the criticism would have been that people had to travel for four hours or more to these visa centres and then queue up. Now, fewer than 10% do that, so there has been some improvement.

I said of the noble Baroness, Lady Finlay, that wherever I turn in the House of Lords, she is there, but she is there for a good reason. She bribed me very nicely with a cup of tea the other day, so I cannot criticise her too much—I do not criticise her at all. The various questions she has asked about the system are what today’s debate is for. I am so aware of all these points, and I hope she knows that.

I made a quick note for the noble Baroness, because she has asked most of the questions before. I am going to meet her regarding her point about qualifications, because I am not quite sure of the answer. She talked about Wales as a super-sponsor. I see the super-sponsor as a model for part of our next phase for organisations. It could be those such as the Welsh Government, but it could also easily be World Jewish Relief, the Council of Churches or other groups. That is the next phase. Similarly, groups in Poland and other places will be able to offer groups to come out.

The noble Lord, Lord Paddick, I think—he asked most of the questions—asked whether the next phase, which is blocks of refugees and blocks of sponsorship, has been postponed. It has not, and I hope it will be launched in a couple of weeks. It sounds like a deliberate excuse, but it is not: it is only three weeks—18 March, I think—since the first scheme was launched, so I do not think it is a big delay.

I am reliably informed that I have run out of time. I will just tell your Lordships the latest figures that I have. I am sorry that my maiden speech probably ate into my ministerial speech too much; perhaps it should not. Visa applications, which are roughly a 50:50 split between the family scheme and the other one, are at 65,000, of which 28,000 are issued. I certainly would not want the noble Lord, Lord Paddick, to think I am wriggling out of the issue. To separate them—I am rounding up and rounding down here—24,000 have been approved through the family scheme and just under 5,000 through the sponsorship scheme.

It is not enough, but each day it is going up significantly. I have publicly set the target of 15,000 per week and decisions within 48 hours. We will be quite near the 15,000 per week. As soon as I leave the Committee, I intend to drill down more into our ability to deliver on the 48-hour target, but I have stated that publicly and I am prepared to live or die by it. If I cannot do the job, I will have to say so and somebody else can, but I am optimistic.

I know everyone feels the intensity of this situation—a day to me is like a week and a week is like a month— but it has actually been a short period. I will be judged properly by this House, the other place, the newspapers and the general public but, more to the point, by people such as the noble Baroness, Lady Helic, and the people who are stuck in places where they are living not very comfortably. I do not want to be part of a country that welcomed in my family as refugees and gave us all what we have, only to say that I have failed them.

Ukraine Refugee Visas

Lord Harrington of Watford Excerpts

Thursday 31st March 2022 Lords Chamber

[The Minister of State, Department for Levelling Up, Housing and Communities and Home Office (Lord Harrington of Watford) (Con)]

My Lords, with the leave of the House I shall now repeat in the form of a Statement the Answer to an Urgent Question given in the other place by my honourable friend the Minister for Safe and Legal Migration. The Statement is as follows:

“The conflict in Ukraine continues to shock the world. Putin’s invasion is deplorable and he must fail. We stand shoulder to shoulder with Ukraine and the Ukrainian people. We are steadfast in our determination to help Ukrainians find safety in the face of Russia’s aggression, which is why the Government have mounted a comprehensive humanitarian response. In a short space of time, we have set up two new visa schemes from scratch, made changes to support Ukrainians already in the UK and surged our operations to meet demand.

The family scheme for Ukrainians has already seen more than 23,500 visas issued to family members of Ukrainians already here in the UK. After setting up the scheme, we further extended it to cover wider family members. Alongside this, we set up the Homes for Ukraine scheme to provide a safe and legal route for Ukrainians without existing family ties in the UK. That is led by the Department for Levelling Up, Housing and Communities and my honourable friend the Member for Walsall North will update on this shortly. It has been heart-warming to see so many members of the public coming forward as sponsors. Both schemes are free and allow people on them to work and access public funds.

We have made it as easy as possible for people to apply. We have simplified the application form to make it quick and easy to use. We have increased capacity in visa application centres across Europe. Following advice from security and intelligence agencies that it was safe to do so, we have removed the need for those with valid passports to provide their biometrics before arriving in the UK, allowing the majority of applicants to apply entirely online. We regularly monitor the scheme’s operational performance, bringing in additional caseworkers to ensure that Ukrainian applications are prioritised. Our humanitarian response has involved the whole of government, local authorities and the devolved Administrations, and we will keep working together to support Ukrainians who want to come to the UK. We will do what is right.”

[Lord Ponsonby of Shulbrede (Lab)]

My Lords, I thank the Minister for repeating the Statement. I understand that it is remarkably similar to the second Statement that is going to be repeated—but nevertheless.

The British people have shown immense generosity in the support they want to provide to the Ukrainian people. The purpose of this is to look at Home Office bureaucracy and challenge the Government about whether the bureaucracy that has been put in place is inhibiting people in a desperate situation from coming to this country. The Minister repeated the statistic that 23,500 visas had been issued for family members, but the figure that has been repeatedly asked for, and which has not been given, so far as I am aware, is for how many have arrived. I do not know whether the Minister is able to answer that question now. When I asked him about it a couple of days ago, he did not have the figure.

The Statement made a point about the relaxation of the rules regarding biometric tests for those with valid passports. Another question which I also asked a couple of days ago was about the position of very young children who do not have a passport, and newborn babies and those soon to be born. How will their families be affected? Will the parents and wider family still be required to travel long distances to have the biometric tests done?

Another question is how many extra caseworkers has the Home Secretary appointed to help families fleeing war? Are there more to be recruited?

[Lord Harrington of Watford (Con)]

I thank the noble Lord, Lord Ponsonby, for his very valid questions. On his first question on the number of arrivals, I cannot give him that number, but I said that I would write to the House of Commons DLUHC Select Committee, so will of course write to him. I said Friday or Monday; I would like to keep to that and certainly will.

The noble Lord’s second question was to do with children. If I may paraphrase, he said, “Yes, everyone knows security is important, but what security risk can children pose? Do children with their mother have to have biometric tests, et cetera?” The answer is yes, but I should explain the reason, because I asked that question a lot myself, as the noble Lord may imagine. Unfortunately, people traffickers are alive and well and are prospering. We have been warned of this by the Ukrainian and Polish Governments, so we have to be sure that the children are in fact the children of the person claiming to be their mother and I am afraid that involves a visit to the visa centre. All I would say in mitigation is that 90% of applicants are now able to apply online without using the biometric tests. The visa centres are a much quicker way of doing it. The officials are briefed to do it as quickly as possible. If there is evidence that we can look at that those children are children of the mother that they say they are, we are flexible as we can be, but I make no excuse for doing that, because we do not know another way around it.

Finally, conscious that we have 10 minutes, as mentioned by my noble friend, I come to the bureaucracy and the extra caseworkers. This has been geared up a lot. In fact, I am going to Sheffield tomorrow to see the process right the way through the system. There are hundreds of extra caseworkers. We are doing evening shifts and weekend shifts to make sure that the current backlog is expedited as quickly as possible.

[Baroness Sheehan (LD)]

My Lords, on Monday, the Minister told me from the Dispatch Box that I was wrong when I raised concerns about application forms for Ukrainian refugees being available only in English, yet just last night, the Home Office confirmed that this is indeed the case. It said that Ukrainians seeking refuge could ask their sponsor to fill the form out for them instead. This is a ludicrous suggestion and further elongates an already arduous process. Does it not show that the Government are once again putting paperwork before people? Does the Minister accept that his remarks on Monday were wrong and will he please correct them?

[Lord Harrington of Watford (Con)]

I thank the noble Baroness, Lady Sheehan, for her question. If I misled her or this House, it was the last thing I intended to do. My memory is that I said that the forms are in English, but there are drop-down bits on the website that translate matters into Ukrainian. If that is not the case, I apologise to the noble Baroness. That is certainly in train and she is absolutely right to ask that question. I am very happy to contact her separately with a progress report on that. I apologise to her and the House if I misled her, but assure her that it was not done on purpose.

[Baroness Finlay of Llandaff (CB)]

Could the Minister please tell us how many whole-time equivalent staff have been taken on in addition to manage the process? How many Ukrainian translators have been drafted in to assist with the process? Who is the official employed full time to oversee the Homes for Ukraine scheme and how are they being held to account? Why is there no processing of DNA on arrival in place if there are concerns about the children? Where is the information on an appeals process if somebody is rejected?

[Lord Harrington of Watford (Con)]

The noble Baroness has asked a lot of questions in one go; I will do my best. On the number of extra staff taken on, I am now satisfied with staffing levels. There are 300 staff in Sheffield alone, and the total number of staff on this, in the different areas, comes to nearly 1,000.

The noble Baroness asked whether there is an appeals process. I do not believe there is. I shall check that, but for the moment the question has not come up. Most people who have applied have been accepted. We really are doing the best we can to make sure that everyone suitable is accepted. She asked me a further question on DNA, which she had asked me before and I found extremely interesting. I am trying to find out the answer.

The problem at the moment is not rejecting people but speeding up the system. I was taken on by the Prime Minister to do this, and I bear full responsibility for it. It is not an excuse, but the system is far faster than it was last week and the week before, and I am expecting significant incremental increases next week and the week after. At the DLUHC Select Committee I was asked what I felt would be the run rate imminently —next week or the week after—and I mentioned 15,000 per week.

[Lord Cormack (Con)]

My Lords, I have one question. I handed to my noble friend a letter signed by eight rectors and vice-rectors of medical universities in Ukraine and asked for the expediting of visas for those who have been invited by British universities. What progress has been made on that?

[Lord Harrington of Watford (Con)]

I thank my noble friend Lord Cormack for his question. He and I have discussed this most days since he gave me the letter last week. The way government works, the responsibility for this is with the Department for Education. I have taken it up—I believe he has too—with the Universities Minister, and I hope to have an answer for him soon. He gave me until early next week, and I intend to keep to that.

[Lord Dubs (Lab)]

My Lords, the Minister has certainly got into the real hot seat of the Government, and I wish him well. I do not like to be churlish, because he has not been in the job a long time, but a number of things are quite puzzling. I have written to him about a family, a mother and a child, who have made five separate applications to get here, yet nothing seems to be happening. The bureaucracy is still there, and it is delaying people. We are a laughing stock. One has only to switch on the news; every day there are families complaining that they cannot get here. It is embarrassing for us all.

One other thing: the Minister says he does not know the number of arrivals. That seems to contrast with the almost daily tally of people who have arrived illegally on boats. We seem to know exactly how many have arrived day by day, yet we do not know how many there are when they come under an official scheme. We need to be given confidence that something is working.

[Lord Harrington of Watford (Con)]

I thank the noble Lord, Lord Dubs, and I hope he knows that I have the utmost respect for him. I worked with him on the Syrian refugee programme. He disagreed with me a lot then, but we had a very proper and positive dialogue. I think he also knows that it is always my hope and attempt to do what he asks me to do, because that is the kind of person he is—and, I hope, the kind of person I am. What he said about the five applications is totally unacceptable. I apologise if he has not had an answer. I personally have not seen his letter, but before I go home today I will make sure that I have and will report to him on that.

I take a little—I want to be tactful and not say “offence”; I do not say that at all—disagreement with what he said about us being a laughing stock. With our family scheme and our Homes for Ukraine scheme, more than 20,000 people have gone through the system. I assure him and noble Lords that this is not complacency. The figure is more than 3,000; the scheme started days ago. I will be held to account at this Dispatch Box, but I think it is too early to do so.

[The Deputy Speaker (Lord Duncan of Springbank) (Con)]

My Lords, the time allowed for this Question has now elapsed. I understand that the Whip wishes to make a point.

--- Later in debate ---

[Viscount Younger of Leckie (Con)]

Could I possibly put the noble Lord right? The Clock started from nought after the Statement was read, so there was a full 10 minutes after the Statement was read.

[Lord Harrington of Watford (Con)]

I assure the noble Lord, Lord Dubs, that I would much rather have the Statement taken as read. I was told that, because it was delivered today, that is not possible. I will try to read quickly before the 10 minutes starts.

Homes for Ukraine Scheme

Lord Harrington of Watford Excerpts

Thursday 31st March 2022 Lords Chamber

[The Minister of State, Department for Levelling Up, Housing and Communities and Home Office (Lord Harrington of Watford) (Con)]

I will do my best not to duplicate the previous Statement and to read as quickly as possible. I will not repeat that

“President Putin’s bloody invasion is a barbaric and unprovoked attack”—

I think everybody knows that:

“In this country there has been an outpouring of public support for the Ukrainian people. We have matched the generosity of the British public with an ambitious humanitarian offer to Ukrainians who wish to come to the UK to escape conflict. Members of this House will know, since the Home Office opened and expanded the family scheme and DLUHC launched the Homes for Ukraine scheme with our colleagues, both schemes have received thousands of applications from people willing to open their hearts and their homes to a new guest.

We have balanced the need to move rapidly with the equal need to get the scheme right. On Friday 18 March the visa application process was opened, and we have already seen the first arrivals coming to the UK. We are minimising bureaucratic foot-dragging and cutting unnecessary red tape, while making sure that people are being set up in the best possible situation to start a new life in the UK, where they can access the right local services and support.

The scheme will be a success only if local and national government are working as one, and councils are being provided with £10,500 per guest to help with them all. We have been working with the Local Government Association and individual councils across the country to fine-tune the practicalities and logistics of the scheme. As the Levelling Up Secretary said, we will keep things under review to make sure that the Government have what they need and get what they need. We are working closely with the devolved Administrations. Four million Ukrainians have been displaced in this bloody and unjust war so far. We are responding to the gravity of this conflict, and we will continue to work with Members of the House to open up our communities to Ukrainians in the weeks and months ahead.”

[Baroness Hayman of Ullock (Lab)]

My Lords, during the Statement in the other place, the Minister said that 200,000 people were interested in the Homes for Ukraine scheme, yet figures released confirm that just 2,700 visas have been granted so far under the scheme. It appears that Ukrainians are not sufficiently aware of its existence. So what are the Government doing both to raise awareness and to simplify the process as much as possible?

Secondly, the Local Government Association told the DLUHC committee yesterday that 144 Ukrainians refugees had presented as homeless. The Minister, Eddie Hughes, said the Government were going to investigate to ensure an understanding of what had led to this. But they urgently need housing, so can I ask the Minister what is actually being done to provide them with homes?

Finally, the Prime Minister has accepted that councils should have access to the database of sponsors so they can be responsible for matching up refugees with sponsors who want to house them. Can the Minister confirm that this is actually going to happen? What urgent guidance and support in this area are being given to councils so they can provide this much-needed support?

[Lord Harrington of Watford (Con)]

I thank the noble Baroness, Lady Hayman, for her comments—again, very constructive and helpful. I will do my best to answer them as quickly as possible, owing to time. The first question was about how we are making Ukrainians aware of our schemes. The answer to that is that now, through our work with the Polish authorities, when people pass into Polish territory, they will download a QR code, and that will give them all the information about our scheme, which is translated into their languages. Secondly, we are providing leaflets in Ukrainian that are distributed widely through NGOs as well as by our own staff. We are very conscious of this, and the noble Baroness makes a valid point. We need to do more. But now we are basically sending a message to everybody through a phone messaging system.

The second question was on simplification of the process. I have spoken extensively about that. I will not repeat myself, but my whole being is to simplify this process as quickly as possible.

Thirdly, the noble Baroness asked about the implications for the 44 people who have been made homeless. This is not an excuse, but I should clarify that this is from the family programme, not the sponsor programme. It is the responsibility of local authorities to deal with them. It is not acceptable. Of course, they have the money to deal with homeless people, but they should not be homeless because they are on a family scheme.

The noble Baroness’s final point is to do with the guidance that local authorities receive. I am sure she is aware, but there is extensive guidance on the internet, and I have regularly met the main people at the LGA to try to brush up on this. I have had conversations with CEOs of councils and with the political leaders of all parties to try to hone this.

[Baroness Sheehan (LD)]

My Lords, yesterday the noble Lord, Lord Ahmad, in response to the Statement on Ukraine, said that 2,700 visas had been granted to Ukrainian refugees. Can the Minister say whether that number refers to applications for the Homes for Ukraine scheme? My understanding is that people who do manage to navigate that application process are issued a reference number, not a visa, and then have to await an official letter of permission to travel to the UK, without which they cannot enter the UK. This is yet another example of putting paperwork before people. How many people have received that letter and, as a consequence, how many people have arrived in the UK?

--- Later in debate ---

[Lord Harrington of Watford (Con)]

I am happy to clarify the questions asked by the noble Baroness, Lady Sheehan, which are, as usual, precise, to the point and perfectly valid. I should explain what happens with the Homes for Ukraine scheme. People apply when they get their security clearance—I do not want to give the impression that “security” is to do with spies; it is mainly to do with people trafficking, paedophilia and other things. At that stage they get an email back that grants their permission to come in. That is a PDF with permission to fly. That is for the 2,700.

[Lord Alton of Liverpool (CB)]

My Lords, can the Minister say who is the official employed full-time to oversee the process? Will he arrange for him to attend the regular briefings organised by the Foreign Office and the Ministry of Defence, which no one from the Home Office or his own unit attends, in order to brief Members of both Houses? Can he also say whether he will look, as I did last week, at the way family units are being kept together in Lithuania when refugees arrive from Ukraine, and at whether we are doing the same here?

[Lord Harrington of Watford (Con)]

I thank the noble Lord, Lord Alton, for his question. I am certainly happy to do what he suggests with the family units; that is a very good point. On his first question, I apologise: I was thinking of the answer to his second question, but I will look it up and write to him. I do know the answer, but I was thinking of his second question.

[Lord Porter of Spalding (Con)]

My Lords, can I ask the Minister to check again his statement about all the families who are presenting as homeless coming on the family scheme? I should declare an interest as part of the LGA. My understanding is that about a third of those who have presented as homeless so far have come from that scheme. One of the obvious reasons for this is probably that the families they come to already live in houses in multiple occupation, and may not have enough room to accommodate more people.

[Lord Harrington of Watford (Con)]

My noble friend is right, and I will look at the number that he said. As I say, 44 was mentioned at the Home Affairs Select Committee. The family scheme does not stipulate, or attempt to stipulate, that the accommodation being offered is suitable. It is a family reunion scheme which, although it has greatly expanded, is based on one that tens of thousands of people from all over the world come in on every year. We have accelerated it for this and we have broadened the definition of “family” as much as we possibly can because of the desperate situation, but of course I will look into it.

[Lord Berkeley (Lab)]

My Lords, the Minister has said several times how helpful the Polish Government have been. That is really good, because the Polish Government have been infamous for bureaucracy in the past. I hope that they are not learning bureaucracy of biometrics from us, because they have more important things to do. Can the Minister explain how those few people who are getting here so far are being transported and who is paying for it, be it by rail, by road or by air? Are they getting free transport or are we making them pay?

[Lord Harrington of Watford (Con)]

I hope that I can answer the noble Lord’s question straightaway. On who pays for them, people are responsible for their own flights, but the operators, Wizz Air and others, are giving either free or very cheap flights. People whom I spoke to last week had paid £10 each. Once they get here, they receive free road, rail or other transport to get to their destination. That was announced last week by the Transport Secretary.

[Lord Hannay of Chiswick (CB)]

Will the Minister accept thanks for having finally clarified that the issue of security is not about catching spies but about dealing with people traffickers? Are we liaising in the most intense way possible with Europol, which I presume is also following this same process to try to stop any refugees falling into the hands of traffickers?

[Lord Harrington of Watford (Con)]

I can confirm what the noble Lord has asked about liaising with all the foreign agencies. I am glad to have picked up on our main security concerns. I think “security” is the wrong word. Obviously, national security is very important, but it as much security for the people who could be trafficked as it is security in a more general sense.

[Baroness Morgan of Cotes (Con)]

My Lords, further to the question from the noble Lord, Lord Alton, can my noble friend offer any advice to a family currently in Poland, a mother and two young daughters, where the daughters have been issued visas but the mother is still waiting? Without the mother having a visa, clearly they will not be able to travel to this country to take advantage of this scheme.

[Lord Harrington of Watford (Con)]

I thank my noble friend Lady Morgan for her question. If the mother in this case has a Ukrainian passport, it should be really easy for her to get a visa, by simply filling out the form and downloading it. If she does not have a passport, that could be why a visa has not been issued. For that, she would have to go to one of the VACs. I can assure her that the VACs would be very sympathetic and do everything they could to give permission. However, to give a more a detailed answer, I would have to know why she has not got her visa if she has uploaded a passport.

[The Deputy Speaker (Lord Duncan of Springbank) (Con)]

My Lords, the time allowed for this Question has now elapsed.

Homes for Ukraine Scheme

Lord Harrington of Watford Excerpts

Monday 28th March 2022 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Finlay of Llandaff (CB)]

My Lords, I beg leave to ask a Question of which I have given private notice, and declare an interest as I applied with my husband on the day the scheme opened to welcome and support a family into our home.

[The Minister of State, Department for Levelling Up, Housing and Communities and Home Office (Lord Harrington of Watford) (Con)]

I thank the noble Baroness for the Question. I can confirm that more than 20,000 applications have been received for the Homes for Ukraine scheme and we will be providing further information in due course.

[Noble Lords]

Oh!

[Baroness Finlay of Llandaff (CB)]

My Lords, the lack of information is extremely worrying. We have an ethical obligation of non-abandonment, having given a commitment to stand with Ukraine and offer sanctuary. Do the Government recognise that the visa process is causing great distress to already-traumatised Ukrainians who have experienced cumulative losses, pervasive existential terror and mass bereavements and are now increasingly at risk? The process is also increasingly frustrating for the tens of thousands of Britons who want to welcome them into their homes and will provide a long-term commitment. Will the Government heed the call from major charities in the Times today to introduce a simplified emergency humanitarian process immediately?

[Lord Harrington of Watford (Con)]

I agree with much of the sentiment of what the noble Baroness said. As far as the visa process is concerned, the only purpose is to provide security checks for this country. As I have said on the record before, when I was given the job to do by the Prime Minister, that was the only constraint. It is my job to make sure that the visa process is speeded up, and in the last two weeks we have gone on to a system where those with Ukrainian passports can fill out the form and download the visa without having to go to a visa centre, which they did only two weeks ago.

[Lord Ponsonby of Shulbrede (Lab)]

My Lords, the Minister said there were 20,000 applications for visas. Can he say how many Ukrainians have actually arrived in this country under this scheme? It is heartening to see how full-hearted the response from the British public has been to it, but what is the position with very young children, newly born babies and those soon to be born? Will their parents need similar visa arrangements for them to come to this country?

[Lord Harrington of Watford (Con)]

The answer to the question on the babies is that children under five do not have passports or visas. The reason why there still have to be visits to visa application centres is our fear that very young children will be used to be trafficked over here, and we need evidence that typically the mother—but sometimes the father—in question is in fact the rightful parent. We really do that as quickly and easily as we can. We cannot ignore the fact that there are people traffickers operating, and we have to do some due diligence.

[Lord Cormack (Con)]

My Lords, is my noble friend aware that today, following meetings with British universities, eight rectors of medical universities in Ukraine—and I have the letter in my hand—have written to the Secretary of State asking that where a British university has invited an academic or a student over, entry into this country be expedited?

[Lord Harrington of Watford (Con)]

I thank my noble friend for that question. I was not aware of the letter and I look forward to receiving it from him personally, because it might be quicker than via the system, and I will answer it very quickly.

[The Lord Bishop of Worcester]

My Lords, I pay tribute to the Minister for the enormous amount that he has done in a very short space of time. At the same time, however, I acknowledge the frustration that is felt and expressed by the noble Baroness, Lady Finlay, on the part of so many people. We have tried locally to convene people in the community, and enormous support is forthcoming, but there seems to be a problem with the process. One acknowledges the need for security checks, but I have heard a lot of times, anecdotally, about the complexity of the visa process and how difficult it is. Local government is waiting for guidance from the Government here.

[Lord Harrington of Watford (Con)]

It should not be my job always to agree with the questions that are asked but, in this case, I totally believe in the sentiment that the right reverend Prelate expressed. I am looking at every aspect of the visa process to speed it up. The Home Secretary and I have personally spent hours with officials, including at weekends, looking at ways that we can speed this up because, if the security checks are put in place—which they are—it seems to me that there is no reason why people applying on the internet, or indeed at a visa centre in the countries adjacent to Ukraine, should not be able to get a response really quickly to allow them to come here. I cannot stand here for a long time using the excuse that I am new to the job, but I promise the right reverend Prelate and noble Lords that this is an absolute top priority.

[Lord Paddick (LD)]

My Lords, whatever their advice, the security services advise Ministers, but it is Ministers who decide. Why is almost every other European country—Ireland, for example—content to allow Ukrainian refugees to enter visa-free while the UK is demanding a visa before entry? Do our security services not liaise with our allies? Instead of security, is it because such an approach would contradict the proposed inhumane treatment of refugees in the Nationality and Borders Bill?

[Lord Harrington of Watford (Con)]

I cannot comment to the noble Lord about the security services, except to say that I have not seen the advice that they have given to the Prime Minister. However, my instructions are to speed up this process as quickly as possible to move an uncapped number of people here in a humanitarian and decent way. It is my intention to deliver that promise.

[Lord Hannay of Chiswick (CB)]

My Lords, could the Minister be kind enough to tell us whether we or the Government have had any contact with all the other European countries that are admitting people without security checks, to discuss whether the security problems being caused by our policy are disproportionate, or whether the contrary is perhaps true?

[Lord Harrington of Watford (Con)]

I promise the noble Lord that I will engage in that process—in the two weeks that I have been in the job, I have not done so. It is something that we must do.

[Baroness Kennedy of The Shaws (Lab)]

I also welcome the noble Lord to his role. I have heard only good things about him, and I wish him well in what he is doing—it is so important. First, I will ask something that was raised by the noble Baroness, Lady Finlay: how many Ukrainians have arrived in this country under the system that has been created? We have not heard the answer to that question. Secondly, why cannot women with young children be allowed in—and, if there is any concern, a centre for DNA testing be created immediately? That can be done so simply nowadays; honestly, it is not complex any more. That is a route for dealing with this problem. My other point is that people are applying using their mobile phones, but it is very difficult to do so with young children when you do not have access to a computer. Like others, I say that the simplification of this system is absolutely imperative.

[Lord Harrington of Watford (Con)]

I thank the noble Baroness for her good wishes, although I may not receive them after I answer this question because, for the moment, I cannot give her the answer that she wants, which is the number of visas that have been successfully submitted. The scheme is new—

[Noble Lords]

Oh!

[Lord Harrington of Watford (Con)]

If noble Lords will bear with me, we will be able to give those numbers in the next few days. I reiterate that it is my intention and that of the Home Secretary to make the visa process as rapid as possible, and literally all my time at the moment is spent trying to deliver that.

[Lord Wigley (PC)]

I draw to the Minister’s attention the experience of a Ukrainian refugee known to me who, on Monday of last week, went to a UK embassy in a central European state to make a visa application. They were told they did not deal with them on Mondays, only on Wednesdays and to come back then. Is that a reflection of the urgency the UK Government are giving to this matter?

[Lord Harrington of Watford (Con)]

I ask the noble Lord to give me the details of that person—that is unacceptable and there is no visa centre to my knowledge that would say, “We don’t do it on Mondays, we do it on Wednesdays”. We have broken such things as the European working time directive with permissions of Governments to get embassies, such as in Warsaw, open seven days a week. It is certainly not our intention to stop people with excuses like that. I would be grateful for that example.

[Lord Bridges of Headley (Con)]

Are the Bank of England and the Treasury working with the ECB to help Ukrainian refugees convert their currency into either euros or pounds? In asking this question, I draw your Lordships’ attention to my entry in the register.

[Lord Harrington of Watford (Con)]

I shall write to my noble friend with the answer to that question because I am not party to that information.

[Baroness Sheehan (LD)]

Will the Minister meet me, because I am really struggling to get a family that I am trying to sponsor to fill in the paperwork. They are all women and children—three generations. They are struggling to fill in the application forms and upload the documents: they have to use Google Translate, their internet keeps failing and each time they have to start from the beginning as the page is not saved. That process has to be done for each and every person. Why is there no one on the ground in the Home Office to help them? Honestly, it looks as though the Home Office has designed a system that is programmed to fail. That just does not reflect the generosity of the British people.

[Lord Harrington of Watford (Con)]

I do not accept the statement of the noble Baroness that the system is built to fail—it is not. But there are problems with it. I would be delighted to sit down with her and discuss it. She did make one error in what she said—and perhaps she does not realise it—in that though the forms are in English, there is a drop-down section for each one translating into Ukrainian. But I would be very pleased to meet her.

[Lord Cunningham of Felling (Lab)]

My Lords, it is a simple question: how many Ukrainians have been admitted to the United Kingdom under this scheme? It is quite simple—or is the Minister telling us he does not know?

[Lord Harrington of Watford (Con)]

We will publish the answer to that question very soon, I promise.

[Baroness Hollins (CB)]

My Lords, I understand that a private provider is involved in the visa application process. I wonder whether the Minister could tell the House who that is?

I have another question, which is about health workers who come to this country from Ukraine. Will they be allowed to continue working immediately? They need to. It would mean their qualifications being recognised and, for those still in training, it would mean them being accepted into the medical, nursing and other training institutes as soon as possible so that they can contribute not only to the NHS but to the health of their own nationals who are settling here.

[Lord Harrington of Watford (Con)]

The noble Baroness asked two questions—the first one about an outside provider. As far as I know, the Home Office uses some agency staff to boost up staff; for example, with the night shifts we are doing. I do not know whether there is one general provider. There is not to my knowledge, but if there is, I will drop her a line and say so.

In answer to the question about health workers, we have a section in the welcome pack for Ukrainian refugees about recognising overseas qualifications and we have people who are doing that. Quite as to the specific healthcare qualifications that she mentions, I do not know—I think it depends on the nature of the qualification. But if we are not doing it, we should be, and I will do my best to make sure that happens.

[Lord Kerr of Kinlochard (CB)]

My Lords, I have every sympathy with the Minister in trying to defend the indefensible, but I would be very grateful if he would go back to the department and ask three questions. First, is there any overriding reason why we have to have a visa requirement and none of our European neighbours do? Secondly, if there is a requirement for a visa, could we not initiate—as suggested in debates on the borders Bill—a temporary provisional humanitarian visa for issue on demand? Thirdly, would the Minister please consider whether the security case is still as strong as was put to him? Would he please have a look at this personally? I find it very hard to see these desperate, destitute Ukrainian mothers and children as a plausible security risk compared to, say, Russian oligarchs with strong KGB or FSB connections.

[Lord Harrington of Watford (Con)]

I could not really dispute the rationale of what the noble Lord said last; I do not think we can compare oligarchs who are not allowed here to refugees who are. We want to expedite them coming here as quickly as possible. I will look at the security advice. To reiterate, at the moment, our policy is that we need the security advice. A visa is needed, but it is done as quickly as possible. As the days and weeks go on, I intend to make sure that that happens faster and faster.

Ukrainian Nationals: Visitor Visas

Lord Harrington of Watford Excerpts

Tuesday 22nd March 2022 Lords Chamber

[Lord Moylan]

To ask Her Majesty’s Government what arrangements they have made for Ukrainian nationals who lawfully arrived in the United Kingdom on visitor visas before the war broke out and now cannot safely return to Ukraine.

[The Minister of State, Department for Levelling Up, Housing and Communities and Home Office (Lord Harrington of Watford) (Con)]

Ukrainians on visitor visas can now have them extended automatically—since the war broke out, obviously, they cannot safely return to Ukraine. They will be extended for six months. Alongside this, we have made it easier for Ukrainians on work, study or seasonal work visas to remain in the UK by extending leave or allowing individuals to switch routes fee-free. I assure my noble friend that people will be treated kindly and sympathetically by Border Force officers.

[Lord Moylan (Con)]

My Lords, can my noble friend give an assurance that the Government will consider extending the right to stay to three years, to put these people on the same footing as Ukrainian nationals arriving in the United Kingdom as refugees?

[Lord Harrington of Watford (Con)]

I can confirm to my noble friend that we are looking into this at the moment, and it would seem sensible to extend the scheme to 36 months and allow those people the same benefits of living in this country that are extended to people on the other schemes.

[Lord Watts (Lab)]

My Lords, if families are taken in by British people and they are paid £350 per month, can the Government assure me that that £350 is not taxable?

[Lord Harrington of Watford (Con)]

I can assure the noble Lord absolutely that that is the case.

[Lord Alton of Liverpool (CB)]

My Lords, underlining the point about the dire situation that the noble Lord, Lord Moylan, described, will the Minister respond to reports that, according to the United Nations, the number of people who have now fled their homes in Ukraine totals 10 million—a quarter of the population—that mass deportations and abductions from Mariupol into locations deep inside Russia have been instigated and that an art school sheltering some 400 people has reportedly been destroyed? Did the Minister have the chance to read the letter in Times on Saturday which highlighted the plight of the 100,000 orphans, half of whom are disabled, housed in 700 children’s homes? Is the noble Lord, as our Refugees Minister—where he is doing a terrific job—able to instigate and co-ordinate international efforts to ensure the safe evacuation of those, clearly very vulnerable, children?

[Lord Harrington of Watford (Con)]

I thank the noble Lord for his question. We have done quite a lot of work on orphans in the countries around Ukraine. The problem is that the policy of the Ukrainian Government, which we have to respect, is that orphans are to be kept in countries adjacent to Ukraine. In the vast majority of cases, they do not want them brought to the UK or other countries. It is therefore our role, predominantly, to support the Ukraine Government by providing aid, hospitality and all the facilities that we can in those countries.

[Lord Cormack (Con)]

My Lords, my noble friend has been very helpful. What happens to those to whom permission for three years is given when the six months for which the Government are paying elapses? Are the Government prepared to continue paying those families or are they expecting those refugees to move elsewhere?

[Lord Harrington of Watford (Con)]

My Lords, I will just clarify the situation. The six months to which my noble friend refers is the six months of the sponsorship scheme. That is the minimum period for which individual sponsors may be asked to provide accommodation. That, of course, is extendable. All the benefits, rights to education and all the other facilities extend for the full three years. Depending on what the sponsor wants, however, those people might have to move to another sponsored accommodation or elsewhere after six months.

[Lord Dubs (Lab)]

My Lords, I have not yet had the chance to congratulate the Minister on his new post. Many of us have quite high hopes for what he is going to achieve; I hope that does not damage his political future. Will the Minister have a look at the difficulty Ukrainians are having in getting visas to come here? There is still a very slow rate of progress, so could he do something to speed it up, please?

--- Later in debate ---

[Lord Harrington of Watford (Con)]

I thank the noble Lord for his kind words but I think my political prospects diminished several years ago. I am doing this job, as the noble Lord knows, because I was involved with the Syrian refugees. I thank him for his help then and for his candid, but always polite, criticism of what we did. The visa process has been greatly expedited: now, refugees with Ukrainian passports can download the form on their phone with the passport, and will get a response very quickly, without having to go to the visa centres, which have caused such delays. I regard that as a major improvement.

[Lord Newby (LD)]

My Lords, following up on that question, the noble Lord last week, in answering questions on the Statement, said that the intention was to greatly shorten the visa application forms and, I think, to make them available in Ukrainian. How long is the visa form now, compared to the 50 pages that it was originally? Is it available in Ukrainian?

[Lord Harrington of Watford (Con)]

I thank the noble Lord. I can assure him that it is a lot shorter. I am afraid I cannot give him the exact number of pages, but the Home Secretary and I have been through it line by line. It is shorter and, I hope, will get even shorter. As for the language, while the form itself is in English, at each section a drop-down column comes out with the Ukrainian translation. It is not quite what the noble Lord wants, because we also have to think of all the officers who have to work on it who are not trained in Ukrainian, but every single word is translated in those drop-down boxes.

[Baroness Butler-Sloss (CB)]

My Lords, I am co-chair of the All-Party Parliamentary Group on Human Trafficking and Modern Slavery. Our group is very concerned about the plight of vulnerable children on the borders of Ukraine, where they are at huge risk of human trafficking. What are the Government doing about that?

[Lord Harrington of Watford (Con)]

I share the noble Baroness’s concern about this. We are in regular touch with the authorities and the aid agencies on the ground. Predominantly, the Government’s policy is to fund the relevant agencies on the ground to help facilitate the kind of safety required. I must make clear again, however, that it is the clear policy of the Ukrainian Government, as reiterated to me by the ambassador here, not to move children very long distances but to move them to safety in countries such as Poland, adjacent to Ukraine.

[Lord Rosser (Lab)]

My Lords, I warmly welcome the noble Lord, Lord Harrington of Watford, to the government Dispatch Box and express the hope that he has rather more success than the football team mentioned in his title is currently having.

[Lord Rosser (Lab)]

I sincerely hope he does have more success. Can the Government confirm that, under the terms of the Nationality and Borders Bill, as it came to this House from the Commons, refugees fleeing the carnage and threat to their lives in Ukraine would be dealt with as having entered the UK unlawfully, thus creating a criminal offence, if they arrive here—perhaps by small boat across the channel—requiring leave to enter or remain and not having such leave?

[Lord Harrington of Watford (Con)]

The noble Lord has made me speechless about the prospects for Watford football club, but I reluctantly accept that he is quite correct.

On the substance of his question about Ukrainians arriving in small boats, all I can say is that it is our policy to treat any Ukrainian who arrives—and others, I hope—with as much sympathy and compassion as we can. I would like to meet with him or drop him a line about a more specific answer to his question.

[Viscount Waverley (CB)]

My Lords, referring to the Minister’s previous response, what measures will be taken to ensure that Ukrainian refugees are safeguarded from being subjected to modern slavery? Will welfare checks and safeguarding assurances be undertaken regularly and before any payments are made under the “Homes for Ukraine” £350-a-month “thank you” payment scheme?

[Lord Harrington of Watford (Con)]

I can confirm that checks are being carried out as we speak on sponsors before refugees arrive in their homes, and that local authorities will be carrying out further checks in the weeks to come.

[Baroness Meyer (Con)]

My Lords, I too welcome my noble friend Lord Harrington to the Front Bench. On the previous question about languages, given that not all Ukrainians’ first language is Ukrainian, can the Minister assure us that there will also be a Russian translation?

[Lord Harrington of Watford (Con)]

I cannot give my noble friend that undertaking because I am not sure, but I will know within minutes of sitting down what the answer is. We have certainly ensured that there are welcome signs and packs available at the airports for those who need Russian. However, we have been told that many Ukrainians are quite offended by the use of the Russian language, so we have to be careful.

[Lord West of Spithead (Lab)]

My Lords, we have huge admiration for the fighting ability and bravery of the Ukrainians fighting against the Russians, and it is important that they should continue that fighting for as long as possible, because that will mean a better outcome at the end when things change. You fight far better when you know that your family and loved ones are being looked after and are safe and being taken care of—not just while you are fighting but should you be killed. Does the Minister not believe that we should bend over backwards in every single way to look after Ukrainian refugees, to ensure that it is in our benefit and that it is the right and proper thing to do?

[Lord Harrington of Watford (Con)]

I agree totally with what the noble Lord said. Everyone in the two departments I am involved with is certainly instructed to ensure that refugees are treated in a humane, compassionate way, understanding that many have had very traumatic experiences before they get here.