British Citizenship: Children

Baroness Williams of Trafford Excerpts

Wednesday 10th April 2019 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Berridge]

To ask Her Majesty’s Government what steps they have taken to review the access to legal redress and humanitarian protection of children whose parents have been deprived of British citizenship.

[The Minister of State, Home Office (Baroness Williams of Trafford) (Con)]

My Lords, if a parent is deprived of British citizenship, this does not affect the citizenship status of their child nor a British child’s ability to access legal support or humanitarian protection.

[Baroness Berridge (Con)]

My Lords, I am grateful to the Minister for her Answer. The story begins for all these British children with their parents—such as the parents of nine year-old Sara—taking them out to join IS. My noble friend has not explained why these British children, who cannot make their own way home or access consular services, do not benefit from a decision-making process in the Home Office on whether it is in their best interests to remain with that parent, potentially in a refugee camp, or to return home. Nor, as far as I am aware, has the inherent wardship jurisdiction of the family courts been exercised on behalf of these children, which would relieve the Home Secretary of that legal conundrum. Will the Minister please agree to meet with concerned Members of your Lordships’ House? I am grateful that there is concern on all Benches about the situation of British children finding themselves in refugee camps.

[Baroness Williams of Trafford]

I share my noble friend’s concerns about children who find themselves, in many cases through no fault of their own, in Syria. She is absolutely right to point out that there is no consular access, which is why the FCO advises against all travel to Syria. There is humanitarian protection out there in the region—it is not an ideal place for a child to be—and the UK has provided £40 million towards that protection in Syria. I would be very happy to meet with my noble friend, and I am grateful for the meeting I had with her and the right reverend Prelate the Bishop of Durham to discuss this matter previously.

[Lord Soley (Lab)]

I wrote to the Minister about this some time ago. My concern is not just the humanitarian side, which is very important, but also security. The longer those children and their mothers are in those camps in eastern Syria, the more likely they are to be brought back into ISIL. I appreciate that action has to be international and not just by the UK, but this is both a humanitarian issue for the children and a security issue for the UK and other countries.

[Baroness Williams of Trafford]

The noble Lord raises two very vital points about the whole crisis in Syria, both the humanitarian issue and the security issue of anyone who might come back to this country after engaging in activity out there. This is, of course, of international concern, as the caliphate disintegrates. As international partners, we must all discuss with each other what the best way forward is. In the humanitarian area, the UK is providing, as I said, a lot of assistance.

[Lord Carlile of Berriew (CB)]

My Lords, does the Minister agree that the lack of clarity indicated by this Question might have been resolved much better if the Government had not delayed for nearly five months appointing a new Independent Reviewer of Terrorism Legislation, who would have been on hand to give expert advice as to the proper resolution of the important issues raised?

[Baroness Williams of Trafford]

I agree with the noble Lord and thank him for all he does in this area. The sooner that appointment is made, the better.

[Lord Paddick (LD)]

My Lords, families are key to the prevention and deceleration of radicalisation. Does the Minister not think that to allow foreign fighters to return from the so-called Islamic State to face justice, deradicalisation and reintegration is far more likely to make the UK safer, rather than depriving them of British citizenship, which runs the risk of maintaining or increasing hostility towards the UK?

[Baroness Williams of Trafford]

Obviously, people do return, and those who return face the most robust force of the law on why they have travelled to Syria. On deprivation, these decisions have been made 150 times since 2010, and the Home Secretary does so with the most robust information and advice before him.

[Lord McConnell of Glenscorrodale (Lab)]

My Lords, as the Minister has said, the Home Secretary has had to face this kind of decision on a number of occasions over recent years. Given the legitimate reaction there has been to the most recent decision that we have discussed in your Lordships’ House, is it not time for the Government to introduce a system whereby mothers and children who are located elsewhere in the world, in a refugee camp or anywhere else, have some form of advocacy, legal or otherwise, in the Home Office at the time the decision is made, rather than having to appeal afterwards? Surely we would not tolerate that in a situation which might separate mothers and children if they were living in this country. If British citizens are living elsewhere, surely they have the right to advocacy, as I think the noble Baroness, Lady Berridge, suggested, before the Home Secretary makes a decision on citizenship in the future.

[Baroness Williams of Trafford]

Of course, when people travel to countries like Syria, when, as I have said, the FCO advice is that under no circumstances should people travel there, and they do so knowing that there is no consular access, what the noble Lord suggests is very difficult. After decisions are made, they may be appealed, but one cannot appeal a decision before it has been made.

[Baroness Butler-Sloss (CB)]

My Lords, what will the Government do about young children with British citizenship whose parents have been deprived of British citizenship? It will be extraordinarily difficult to look after the children if you do not also look after the mother.

[Baroness Williams of Trafford]

The noble and learned Baroness is right to point out the issue of the needs of children. If a child finds itself in, say, al-Hawl refugee camp, that is a difficult situation to be in, and quite often their parents have put them in that situation. As I said, humanitarian assistance is available, and we have put a significant amount of money into providing that assistance.

Protestors’ Rights

Baroness Williams of Trafford Excerpts

Tuesday 9th April 2019 Lords Chamber

[The Minister of State, Home Office (Baroness Williams of Trafford) (Con)]

My Lords, peaceful protest is a vital part of democratic society. It is a long-standing tradition in this country that people are free to gather together and demonstrate their views, provided that they do so within the law. The granting of injunctions is a discretionary matter for the courts.

[Baroness Jones of Moulsecoomb (GP)]

I thank the Minister for her Answer, and that is of course true. However, one of the big problems with these injunctions is that they are so wide-ranging and some of the decisions are made in secret meetings, which I think anyone would be concerned about. One thing that the Government could do is look at the Civil Procedure Rules and, where persons unknown are included in the injunction—which of course makes it very broad—if a legal representative were appointed to represent those persons unknown, there would be fewer infractions of the human right to protest. Will she commit to reviewing the Civil Procedure Rules?

[Baroness Williams of Trafford]

I think I know the case to which the noble Baroness refers, and there has been an appeal of the ruling in that case. I recognise the point that she makes about persons unknown. Because an appeal has been upheld, it will be up to the company involved to relook at the prime reason for the application for the injunction. The point about applications being wide-ranging is certainly something the court may take into consideration.

[Lord Brown of Eaton-under-Heywood (CB)]

Last week, in the INEOS case, the Court of Appeal discharged injunctions against two groups of protesters and remitted to the trial judge for his reconsideration on a limited basis injunctions against two other groups of protesters on grounds, allegedly, of trespass, obstruction of access and so forth. Does not the Minister agree that while that litigation continues to run its course, it would be quite inappropriate for the Government to make any assessment of, to quote the Question,

“interference with the rights of protesters”?

The litigation is deciding what the rights of protesters here may be.

[Baroness Williams of Trafford]

The noble and learned Lord is of course absolutely right—and I wish him a happy birthday.

[Baroness McIntosh of Pickering (Con)]

Does my noble friend agree that it would be much better if INEOS and other such energy companies engaged at the earliest possible stage with local communities, and that it would stand INEOS and those companies in good stead if they would respect the energy law laid down that there will be no fracking in, near, above or below a national park?

[Baroness Williams of Trafford]

Certainly, any large organisation that needs to impact a community would be well advised to engage with it well ahead of time. During such a process, people who protest have to balance their right to protest with their responsibility to uphold the law.

[Lord Paddick (LD)]

My Lords, why do companies need injunctions? If the protest is lawful, the police should facilitate it. If it is illegal, the police should take action against those involved. Is current legislation inadequate, or are there insufficient police resources?

[Baroness Williams of Trafford]

Lancashire police received nearly £3 million in special grant in the year 2018-19, so I do not think the resources are inadequate. The two processes need to run alongside each other—both the application to the court by the organisation concerned, and indeed the upholding of law and order by the police.

Windrush Compensation Scheme

Baroness Williams of Trafford Excerpts

Wednesday 3rd April 2019 Lords Chamber

[The Minister of State, Home Office (Baroness Williams of Trafford) (Con)]

My Lords, with the leave of the House, I will repeat a Statement given by my right honourable friend the Home Secretary in the other place. The Statement is as follows:

“With permission, Mr Speaker, I will make a Statement to the House on the Windrush compensation scheme. Copies of the response to the consultation on the Windrush compensation scheme will be available from the Vote Office.

The United Kingdom has a proud history of welcoming arrivals from around the world. We have long held open a door to those who want to come and help build a better country—including, of course, my own parents, or indeed the parents of the shadow Home Secretary. We have all benefited as a result, with the UK emerging as a stronger, broader, more vibrant and successful nation. We would not be the country we are today without the men and women who crossed oceans to come here legally, make their homes, work hard, pay taxes and raise their families. And we all know it.

This is why the whole country was shocked by the unacceptable treatment experienced by some members of the Windrush generation. People who have built their lives in this country, who have done so much for this country and who have every right to be in this country were told that they were not welcome. It was a terrible mistake. It should never have happened. That it did is a matter of profound regret to myself, my department and the Government.

That is why, just under a year ago, one of my first acts as Home Secretary was to stand at this Dispatch Box and say sorry on behalf of successive Governments: sorry to the parents and grandparents who suffered the trauma of being incorrectly ordered to leave the country they love; sorry to those who had paid taxes here for decades, only to be denied the NHS care to which they were perfectly entitled; sorry to hard-working men and women who were unfairly refused the right to work, and even refused the dignity of a roof over their heads.

But I know that words alone are not enough, which is why, 11 months ago, I did not just say sorry to the members of the Windrush generation; I also vowed to right the wrongs that had been done to them. I sincerely hope that this compensation scheme being unveiled today goes some way to doing that. It has taken longer than I would have liked, but if we are to deliver justice for the Windrush generation and their families, it is vital that we get this right.

Today’s scheme is the product of many months of work with affected individuals and their representatives, including well over 2,000 responses to our call for evidence and consultation. We are also indebted to Martin Forde QC, who has provided us with invaluable independent advice and met with a great many individuals who were directly affected. His findings have contributed hugely to the final design of the scheme, and I take this opportunity to thank Martin for his work.

As a result of this meticulous approach, I am confident that the proposals for the scheme are closely aligned with what affected communities wanted to see—namely, that it is simple, accessible and fair. Full information is now available online and via a free telephone hotline. Guidance is being provided to help people understand what compensation they might be entitled to and how to submit a claim. The application process itself is as simple and as clear as possible.

It is also important to note that the scheme is not only open to those of Caribbean origin. The Government propose broadly to align eligibility with the Commonwealth citizens task force. This means that Commonwealth citizens settled in the UK before 1973, along with certain children and grandchildren of theirs, are eligible to apply if they have losses to claim for. Other eligible groups include those of any nationality who have a right of abode, or settled status, or are now British citizens, who arrived to live in the UK before 31 December 1988.

Of course, the historical nature of the wrongs done means that some of those who have been affected throughout the years are, sadly, not alive to see justice done. Where this is the case, we propose to accept claims from the estates of individuals who would themselves have been eligible had they not passed away, and from close family members of an eligible person.

Later this evening, I will be welcoming community group leaders to Parliament, alongside some of those who have suffered, and their families. It will be an opportunity to reflect not only on the mistakes of successive Governments that brought us to this point but also on what we as a country can do to ensure that mistakes like this are not repeated.

Wendy Williams’ review will explore how members of the Windrush generation came to be treated like illegal migrants, and I look forward to receiving her recommendations. But there is no doubt that the roots lie in a historical policy that saw people given settled status without also being given the ability to prove it.

Nothing we say or do will ever fully wipe out the hurt, trauma and loss that should never have been suffered by the men and women of the Windrush generation. But together, we can begin to right the wrongs of Windrush. We can begin to turn the page on this sad chapter in our history, and we can do justice by people who have contributed immeasurably to this country. When the UK called out for help, thousands of people from the Caribbean and across the Commonwealth stepped up to help get us back on our feet. Now it is time for us to step up and do what is right by those whom we have failed. I commend this Statement to the House”.

My Lords, that concludes the Statement.

--- Later in debate ---

[Lord Paddick (LD)]

My Lords, I, too, thank the Minister for repeating the Statement. This is a shameful episode in our country’s history, where those who came here to help the UK were wrongly denied the right to remain. I pay tribute to my noble friend Lady Benjamin for her tireless and successful campaign for a Windrush Day. It is sad that this scandal casts a shadow over what is meant to be a celebration of everything the Windrush generation and their descendants have contributed to the UK. It is difficult to see how the wrongs of unlawful deportation, where some of those affected have died in poverty overseas, can be made right. Rather than accepting claims from the estate of those who have passed away and from close family members, will the Government approach those affected and proactively offer compensation?

While the Government await the results of Wendy Williams’ review, there are some things that they could and should do now. They need to address the ongoing “hostile environment” created by such measures as the right to rent scheme. As Liberal Democrats, we argued when the scheme was being discussed in this House that, as a recent High Court case has found, forcing landlords to carry out immigration checks on potential tenants is likely to be discriminatory, not just against immigrants but against black and minority ethnic Britons. Why are the Government appealing against that finding when they say that they are dismantling the hostile environment?

Can the Minister also explain why Windrush generation individuals who received settled status without being given the ability to prove it are now being asked to prove that they are of “good character” and why, if they fail to do so, they could be refused right of abode, settlement or citizenship? On page 14 of 19, the Windrush scheme application form states:

“Please give any other information which will help us decide whether you are of good character. Please use an additional sheet if necessary”.


I thought those who had a right of abode in the UK would automatically be given the right to remain. Perhaps the Minister can explain what is going on.

The Government accept that the roots of the Windrush scandal lie in a policy that saw people receive settled status without giving them the ability to prove it. Will they therefore accept the Liberal Democrat amendments to the Immigration and Social Security Co-ordination (EU Withdrawal) Bill currently before the other place, so that EEA and Swiss nationals and their family members who are granted settled or pre-settled status under the EU settlement scheme are provided with physical documented proof of that status, so that they can prove it?

A compensation scheme is one thing. Government action to prove they have learned lessons is quite another.

[Baroness Williams of Trafford]

I thank both noble Lords for their questions and join the noble Lord, Lord Paddick, in commending the noble Baroness, Lady Benjamin, for all the positive work that she has done in this area. She is a joy to work with and a great advocate for the members of the Windrush generation.

Turning first to the question of the noble Lord, Lord Kennedy, about exactly how the scheme will work, I rarely use a prop in this place, but I happen to have one on me. I refer him to the complete guide to the Windrush compensation scheme, which can be found both in physical copy and on the GOV.UK Windrush compensation scheme website. The rationale behind this came about through the consultation to learn at first hand from the various stakeholders how the scheme might work best and most efficiently. Making the application form as easy to complete as possible was the number one priority, while reaching out proactively to people was the second.

The noble Lord, Lord Kennedy, asked about the various events taking place. Clearly an event is being held in Parliament today with the Home Secretary, and 15 community events have been planned over the next three months. They are open to anyone of any nationality. The first will be held in Lambeth Town Hall this Friday and a full schedule will be published shortly on GOV.UK. He also rightly made a point about social media. It is the best way to get information out as quickly as possible and we are using it to publicise the scheme. I will be tweeting and I hope the noble Lord will retweet my message because we all have a leadership role to play in this.

The FCO is also working to promote the scheme overseas because we want as many eligible people as possible to claim. So that they can do so, promotional materials are being sent to all posts. Tomorrow, the Immigration Minister will brief the Commonwealth high commissioner in the UK. We are placing adverts for the scheme and the events in core publications. Here in the UK, we will write to those who have already been supported through the task force to let them know about the compensation launch, as well as to those who have signed up for updates on Windrush. The onus is on us all to go through the channels we know to publicise the launch of the scheme.

The noble Lord, Lord Kennedy, also asked about the definition of “close family members”. They include a mother, a father, a child, a brother or sister, a wife or husband, a civil partner and unmarried long-term partners living together. All fall within the remit; if someone has been affected by some of the detriment relating to the Windrush generation, in turn their close family members will also have been affected.

I have answered the question about social media. The noble Lord, Lord Paddick, asked me about the events taking place. Oh, the Box got it wrong and I was right: it was the noble Lord, Lord Kennedy. In any event, it is helpful for all of us to know what events are going on and where. I have a list of the various places: Bradford, Birmingham, Bristol, Leicester, Manchester, Swansea, Cardiff, Newport, Belfast, Nottingham, Glasgow and London.

The noble Lord, Lord Paddick, asked about the hostile environment. This has been batted around quite a lot. As my right honourable friend the Home Secretary said earlier, successive Governments do not have clean hands over what has been described as a hostile environment. Unfortunately, it started under Labour and finished under the current Home Secretary. Being in a compliant environment is far more appropriate.

The noble Lord also talked about the “proof of good character” provision. There has always been a good character test for a reason. Clearly, if someone fails it through criminality, that needs to be brought to the fore.

He also talked about the physical document. A lot of discussion has taken place about this issue in terms of the EU settlement scheme. People feel uneasy that they do not have a physical document. In fact, what the Government are bringing forward is the use of a digital token. Such a token cannot be lost like a physical document and it will assist people in whatever area of life they need help with, be that work, rent and so on. The digital token can be checked for that specific purpose, although obviously there is a data protection issue here. I recognise that some people do not like not having something physical in front of them, but of course they will be notified by email or letter that their claim has been processed and has gone through. However, I accept the point being made by the noble Lord. He also asked whether we will support the Lib Dem amendment to the forthcoming immigration Bill. We shall consider it when it comes to your Lordships’ House, and I am sure we will have a great discussion on it.

--- Later in debate ---

[Baroness Williams of Trafford]

I think I know the matter to which the right reverend Prelate is referring. I met the right reverend Prelate the Bishop of Durham and other noble Lords to discuss the issue in question. It was a productive discussion in which we talked about better training for people making decisions and—in the case we are talking about—better religious literacy. Yes, we have to learn lessons from the sorry Windrush episode and make more consistent and proper decisions as we go forward.

[Lord Pannick (CB)]

I have a similar question. Can the Minister assure the House that there will be sufficient officials dealing with these applications to ensure that they are decided speedily? Does the Home Office have a target time for dealing with these applications?

[Baroness Williams of Trafford]

The target time is as quickly as possible, but the noble Lord makes the right point and I know the episode to which he refers as well; I worked with him on it. There are several levels of assistance for claimants. We are about to contract with a third party so that our advice can be given online or by phone. As I say, the application form has been designed to be as simple and to provide as efficient and speedy a response as possible.

[Baroness Berridge (Con)]

My Lords, while welcoming this compensation scheme, I find it very sad—the noble Lord, Lord Paddick, alluded to this—that the word “Windrush” is now in many people’s minds associated with this system in the Home Office. There is now, of course, a national day, 22 June. Can my noble friend the Minister please outline whether specific money is being allocated so that that day can be commemorated in such a way as to try to make good some of the negative publicity around Windrush and to return it to the place it should have in our national history—one of celebration and commemoration?

[Baroness Williams of Trafford]

I thank my noble friend for asking that question. Yes, we need to turn what has now widely been seen as a negative period in our history into a positive period, one in which the Windrush generation contributed hugely to this country after the war. I do not know about funding, but I can certainly find out for my noble friend. I will let her know and place a copy in the Library.

[Baroness Benjamin (LD)]

My Lords, I thank the Minister for her kind words, as well as my noble friend. I am part of the Windrush generation and this issue is close to my heart. I was delighted to hear the Statement being read out. I am also happy to say that not only do we have a Windrush Day, which 50 applicants will be getting money to celebrate, but we have £500,000 to spend each year on Windrush Day from now on, which is great. The Prime Minister has also asked me to chair the Windrush Commemoration Committee and has given us £1 million to create a significant Windrush monument to recognise and celebrate this important part of our history—the great contribution the Windrush generation has made to Britain—and for us to leave a lasting legacy. However, many have asked why the money is not being spent on compensating those affected by the Windrush scandal. This is something that the committee has to deal with all the time. I say that we must do both. What are the Government doing to deal with this criticism, to bring harmony and to bring an end to the Windrush scandal as soon as possible?

[Baroness Williams of Trafford]

I thank the noble Baroness for outlining the money that has been spent, which I could not do in answer to my noble friend—she has of course been right at the heart of this for some months now. As for spending money on Windrush compensation rather than on the projects and the monument the noble Baroness talks about, we are actually going to spend it on both. The scheme overall is not capped, although obviously certain elements of it are financially limited. She can be confident that we will fulfil our obligations in both areas.

[Baroness O'Neill of Bengarve (CB)]

Will the Minister tell the House what work the Government have done to identify other groups that may have very great difficulty presenting identification documents that establish their right to remain and live here? I think particularly of people born in children’s homes in both Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland, who may have had a rather turbulent childhood and may not have access to documents that record their birth or adoption. I believe the numbers are not negligible.

[Baroness Williams of Trafford]

I absolutely agree with the noble Baroness in what she says about Northern Ireland and southern Ireland. There will be people alive who do not even know where they came from, such was the chaotic system back in the 1950s, and until the 1970s, in both Northern Ireland and southern Ireland—in some cases children were sold abroad. Nobody could fail to be moved by the story of Philomena, who eventually identified who her son was after he died. The noble Baroness makes a very good point, and that is why we have the pre-1973 cohort and the pre-1988 cohort. The problems faced by the Windrush generation are not confined solely to people of the Windrush.

[Earl Attlee (Con)]

My Lords, I am a little worried about the point made by the noble Lord, Lord Paddick, on good character. It seems to me that someone is either entitled to be in the UK or not. What does good character have to do with it?

[Baroness Williams of Trafford]

Sometimes, someone who fails a good character test—for example, because of criminality—will be precluded from having leave to remain in this country. That is what the good character test is around.

[Lord Ouseley (CB)]

My Lords, we always hear about lessons learned when there are major disasters or atrocities of the kind associated with the Windrush generation and the compensation scheme. As early as 2012, representations were made by Caribbean Heads of Government about the mistreatment of their residents and the issue of non-documentation and proving their right to be here, in spite of having been here since the last war. As late as 2014, those representations were made. Just over a year ago, I asked a Written Question, and a Written Answer came from the Minister herself. I was told that no representations had been made to Her Majesty’s Government; it was the tenacity of those campaigning on behalf of people who had been mistreated that ensured the matter came into the open and started to be taken seriously.

It was almost exactly a year ago that a major press conference launched the initiative that exposed what was going on. So when we come to hear about lessons learned, which was stressed in the Statement, I would like to know why the representations made by the Caribbean Heads of Government were not made known to anyone else? Was that based on the context of the hostile environment, which suggested that these people did not matter and were unimportant, and that it was irrelevant to take those representations and pass them on? When the Minister realised what had happened, she made it known that she was misled and did not have that information when she gave an incorrect answer to the House. Can we be assured that, if this happened tomorrow—if representations were made to Her Majesty’s Government through the Foreign and Commonwealth Office, as they were on that occasion—representations would be communicated to those in the Home Office who have responsibility for this matter and there would not be a repeat of the situation we have just had?

[Baroness Williams of Trafford]

I thank the noble Lord for the points he has made. He will be aware that the Home Secretary has asked Wendy Williams to carry out a lessons learned review and we look forward to hearing its findings. We often say “This will never happen again” in all kinds of settings in life. The Windrush episode is a travesty for this country and all we can do on identity assurance is to build on that situation and try to do things better in future.

[Lord Dholakia (LD)]

My Lords, what is being done to ensure that such a tragedy never happens again in this country? My concern is that as early as 1980 the Commission for Racial Equality produced a report on immigration control procedures in which everything that is being talked about in regard to the Windrush migrants to this country was reported. However, the type of culture which developed was, in effect, meant to keep people out rather than allowing eligible people to enter the country.

My other concern is for EU migrants who will be applying shortly for settled status in this country. I recently visited the Liverpool centre and, as far as I can discover, all they will be entitled to is a number confirming their status here. I am worried that they will have no documentation for future occasions when they are asked to prove their status in this country. Will the Minister look again at what can be done to make sure that they will have the type of documentation that can be produced on demand, rather than a number which can be lost at any given time?

[Baroness Williams of Trafford]

On the noble Lord’s last question about the number being lost, it will be of course be a digital token, a digital identity. I acknowledge the fears that some people who are resisting it have about something which is not on paper. It may make them feel insecure but it is probably more secure than a piece of paper which can easily be lost. I totally agree with his point about the culture, which had grown over successive years into a situation where we were more likely not to believe people than to believe them and, over decades, the Windrush tragedy happened. On the question of ensuring that it does not happen again, I refer to the answer I gave previously about Wendy Williams carrying out the lessons learned review. Identity assurance—this goes back to the noble Lord’s question about having a physical document—as it has grown up from the 1970s onwards, has become more important for people in everyday life to enable them to work, to rent and to prove that they are who they say they are.

[Baroness Hussein-Ece (LD)]

I acknowledge the Minister saying that it was a travesty—it is a travesty and a tragedy—but my noble friend Lord Paddick asked how proactive the Government will be in compensating and reaching these people who were wrongly deported and have been treated so shabbily. We have read of terrible cases where people have died, been denied cancer care and deported. Over the years, a number of people under the radar have been deported. The fact that they were deported means that the Home Office must have a record of who those people are and so, instead of waiting for them to contact us or their respective Governments if they are already in the country to which they were deported, what are the Government going to do to contact them? As the Government must have a record of paying for their flight back to their country of origin, surely they should be proactive in bringing them back or compensating them if they are not in a position to come back and are living in poverty in another country. Can the Minister say specifically what proactive measures are being taken to deal with that?

[Baroness Williams of Trafford]

The noble Baroness asks a perfectly logical question about what we have done about some of the people who we might have wrongly removed from this country. Officials spent a long time doing a manual trawl of some of the people we removed. I had the numbers—the number 57 comes to mind, but I will double check and write to the noble Baroness about the exact breakdown of the numbers that we checked.

[Lord Hussain (LD)]

Is there a right of appeal for those claiming compensation under the Windrush scheme?

[Baroness Williams of Trafford]

That is a very good point. I do not know whether there is a right of appeal. Obviously there are a number of different categories, some of which will be yes or no because it is cut and dried, but others may not be. I will write to the noble Lord on the appeal process.

[Lord Paddick]

Will the Minister give me further clarification on the good character issue? Clearly if somebody is a British citizen or has a permanent right to remain in the UK, which a lot of these Windrush people have, even if they are convicted of a criminal offence, they cannot be deported. Why are the Windrush generation being asked about previous convictions and to prove their good character before they are given written confirmation, if you will, of what is the case: that they are British citizens or that they have the right to remain?

--- Later in debate ---

[Baroness Williams of Trafford]

Obviously each case is different, and the good character test would have to be applied to anyone applying for leave to remain in this country. There is a spectrum of what denotes good character or otherwise. The decision will be different in different degrees of criminality, so I am very happy to write to the noble Lord.

Immigration Detention

Baroness Williams of Trafford Excerpts

Wednesday 3rd April 2019 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Whitaker]

To ask Her Majesty’s Government whether they intend to implement the recommendations of the report of the Joint Committee on Human Rights, Immigration Detention (HL Paper 278), published on 7 February, in particular those related to indefinite detention.

[The Minister of State, Home Office (Baroness Williams of Trafford) (Con)]

My Lords, we are carefully considering the recommendations made in the JCHR report alongside those in the recent Home Affairs Select Committee report, and will respond to both in due course. On indefinite detention specifically, the law simply does not allow this. However, we recognise the importance of these matters in informing how we can have a detention system that is fair, upholds our immigration policies and acts as a deterrent to those who might seek to frustrate those policies.

[Baroness Whitaker (Lab)]

My Lords, I am almost heartened by the Minister’s response. However, is she aware that, of the over 2,200 people detained without any limit being given and without review, appeal or any consideration of vulnerability—some for over three years—some were released back into the community, after all that? This causes untold damage to family life and they had clearly been wrongly sentenced. The recommended limit of 28 days is surely long enough. Can HMG not undertake to implement at least that?

[Baroness Williams of Trafford]

In terms of review, we are now trialling immigration bail at two months rather than four, which we did previously. The overall picture is that 92% of people leave immigration detention within four months and 69% within 29 days. We have improved the system by not detaining people for longer than needed and fewer people are now spending time in detention than ever before.

[Lord Morris of Handsworth (Lab)]

My Lords, is the Minister aware that children are also detained in some detention centres? Can she tell the House how the education needs of those children are provided for?

[Baroness Williams of Trafford]

Not only have the overall detention figures gone right down—they are lower than since the collation of figures began in 2009—but the number of children in detention has gone down drastically. The safeguards have also improved since those times. The noble Lord is absolutely right to ask this, because the safeguards and the well-being of children are absolutely paramount, whether a child is in detention or not.

[Lord Paddick (LD)]

My Lords, with consistently more detainees being released into the community from immigration detention than are being removed from the UK, does the Minister accept that this suggests that the initial decisions to detain frequently lack rigorous assessment of why detention is necessary and justified?

[Baroness Williams of Trafford]

As I said, the figure of 92% of people being released from detention, who have been there perhaps for immigration bail or other forms of review, is the result of our not wanting to keep people in detention and doing so only to remove them.

[Lord Singh of Wimbledon (CB)]

My Lords, while the checking of documentation and control of numbers can be justified, does the Minister agree that indefinite detention and a callous, dismissive attitude to would-be immigrants or asylum seekers, including the elderly and infirm, as detailed in the report, can never be justified? This is a Christian country. In Leviticus 19:33-34, the Bible reminds us:

“When a stranger resides with you in your land, you shall not wrong him … you shall love him as yourself”.

[Baroness Williams of Trafford]

I thank the noble Lord for that point. As he made it, thunder was clapping —I do not know whether it was for here or for another place.

The noble Lord is absolutely right that the law does not allow indefinite detention. The purpose of detention is to remove someone, and in as short a time as possible. He raises a good point about vulnerable people. It might help him to know that we are currently piloting a scheme to manage a number of vulnerable women in the community who would otherwise have been detained at Yarl’s Wood. With the input of a medical expert, we are looking to differentiate more strongly between vulnerable cases to ensure that the most complex get the attention that they need.

[The Lord Bishop of Durham]

My Lords, the Joint Committee’s report recommends that initial detention decisions be reviewed by a judge within 72 hours. Can the Minister explain why the usual standards of British justice should not apply here?

[Baroness Williams of Trafford]

The right reverend Prelate will be comforted to know that all decisions on detention benefit from the oversight of the independent detention gatekeeper. On the analogy with the criminal justice system, that system is different. Custody is in place to establish a criminal investigation, but detention has already established that the person needs to be removed.

[Lord Dubs (Lab)]

My Lords, is there ever a case for keeping a child in detention?

[Baroness Williams of Trafford]

It is very unfortunate if a child ends up in detention. The decision is balanced on the need of that child to be, perhaps, with its parents. As I told the noble Lord, Lord Morris of Handsworth, the number of children in detention has drastically reduced since 2009.

[Lord Green of Deddington (CB)]

My Lords, does the Minister accept that there has to be some balance in this debate? If there is a specific time limit, especially a short one, it is all too easy for someone to spin out the proceedings—perhaps, in some circumstances, by making a false claim—until he or she has to be released and can then disappear. There has to be some balance and there has to be an ability to detain people until their cases are sorted.

[Baroness Williams of Trafford]

The noble Lord is absolutely right. Anyone who wishes to frustrate the system could do so through a time-limited detention. The Government are clear: we want to limit time in detention, but actually placing a time limit on it has the effect that he describes.

Freedom of Expression

Baroness Williams of Trafford Excerpts

Wednesday 3rd April 2019 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Williams of Trafford (Con)]

My Lords, freedom of expression is enshrined in Article 10 of the European Convention on Human Rights. This includes the,

“freedom to hold opinions and to receive and impart information and ideas without interference by public authority”.

Under the Human Rights Act 1998, public authorities have to act compatibly with the convention. The Government are happy to take this opportunity to reassure Parliament that they take freedom of expression very seriously and are determined to promote it actively.

[Baroness Ludford (LD)]

My Lords, I am not sure that that answers the Question. I think that the House’s understanding of the Question will be enhanced by my explaining, at the risk of breaking conventions, that the badge worn by Mr Brinsmead-Stockham read: “Bollocks to Brexit”—like the one I have with me. It was a bit rude, certainly, but surely not a reason to be detained by Border Force. Meanwhile, a leave campaigner has put malicious devices on train tracks in a politically motivated attack on infrastructure, which is apparently not being treated by the police as terrorism. Should the authorities not get their priorities right?

[Baroness Williams of Trafford]

The individual concerned was delayed as opposed to detained—I think that there is a clear difference between the two.

[Noble Lords]

Oh!

[Baroness Williams of Trafford]

It was for four minutes. I cannot say a lot about it because the incident is being looked into, but I agree with the noble Baroness that whether we say what is on her badge or quite the opposite, we should be perfectly entitled to do so.

[Lord Pearson of Rannoch (UKIP)]

My Lords, I hope that I shall not ruin the career of the noble Baroness, Lady Ludford, by supporting her Question and in finding the Government’s Answer disappointing. Likewise, what about the Christian preacher, Pastor Olu, who was arrested, had his Bible wrenched from him and was dumped several miles away by police for preaching the divinity of Jesus, to which a nearby Muslim took offence? Are the Government aware that freedom of speech and expression are dying under their watch?

[Baroness Williams of Trafford]

I do not know where the specific incident that the noble Lord talked about took place. Was it in the UK? No? You only have to go outside the doors of this Palace of Westminster to hear that any view, as long as it does not incite hatred towards someone, is absolutely taken on board—I enjoy walking past people who either agree with my view or do not, and who regularly admire my handbag—and to know that freedom of speech is well upheld by this country and by this Parliament.

[Lord Kennedy of Southwark (Lab Co-op)]

My Lords, wearing a pro-Brexit or anti-Brexit badge should not be a reason to be stopped, delayed or detained at a border entry point. These are difficult times and passions are running high, but can the Minister ensure that officials are briefed on ways to avoid these matters becoming incidents?

[Baroness Williams of Trafford]

I assure the noble Lord that in the case of the individual concerned in the Question, we are undertaking some fact-finding meetings with the member of staff and the higher officer on duty at that time. I think that the noble Baroness and the noble Lord will be comforted by that. The noble Lord, Lord Kennedy, perhaps strayed into other events that have taken place around the Palace of Westminster. We all have the right to give our views on Brexit—and, my goodness, we have done that—but when that strays into some of the more aggressive behaviour that we have seen, it is absolutely unacceptable.

[Lord Dykes (CB)]

Should the Leader of the House not be more enthusiastic about the slogan cited by the noble Baroness, Lady Ludford? After all, it is used frequently and is well known as the slogan of the chairman of Pimlico Plumbers in London, a very famous and distinguished remainer.

[Baroness Williams of Trafford]

I think my noble friend the Leader of the House is no more enthusiastic about the slogan than I am, but everyone—I thought the noble Lord was going to refer to the wife of the Speaker of the House of Commons—has the right to air their views on what is an incredibly heated topic at the moment.

[Lord Forsyth of Drumlean (Con)]

My Lords, on the subject of people having freedom of expression to give their views on Brexit, will my noble friend give the House an undertaking that our rules will not be subverted so as to prevent us considering legislation properly throughout its stages in this House?

[Baroness Williams of Trafford]

I say to my noble friend that the conventions and rules of this place and the other place have been upheld for hundreds of years and I agree that we should have the time to be able to consider such huge matters before us at this time.

[Lord Tomlinson (Lab)]

If there was objection on the grounds of the language used, what was the offensive word? Was it bollocks or Brexit?

[Baroness Williams of Trafford]

Probably both.

[Lord Paddick (LD)]

My Lords, when we debated the Counter-Terrorism and Border Security Bill, we argued that the power given to Border Force to detain people for up to six hours should be based on reasonable suspicion, while the Government argued it should be able to detain people without any suspicion. Is the detention of the pro-remain supporter at Gatwick not an example of how Border Force can now, thanks to the Government, lawfully overstep the mark?

--- Later in debate ---

[Baroness Williams of Trafford]

Again, we must make a distinction between someone being detained and being delayed by four minutes, but I take the point behind the noble Lord’s question: obviously, Border Force has to be very careful about why it detains someone. That is the very point in the legislation the noble Lord referred to that we brought through together.

Police: Recruitment Criteria

Baroness Williams of Trafford Excerpts

Tuesday 2nd April 2019 Lords Chamber

[The Minister of State, Home Office (Baroness Williams of Trafford) (Con)]

My Lords, this Government’s reforms are designed to make the police workforce more capable, flexible and professional. We established the College of Policing as the first professional body for policing, charged with setting standards, including for police recruitment. The college has implemented a major reform of entry routes through its policing education qualification framework, which will ensure that policing can continue to attract the brightest and best recruits from a wide range of backgrounds.

[Lord Mackenzie of Framwellgate (Non-Afl)]

I thank the Minister for her reply. Is she aware of the four pilot schemes—taking place, I believe, at the instigation of the College of Policing—in Nottinghamshire, Derbyshire, Leicestershire and south Wales, which require all recruits to undertake a three-year apprenticeship leading to a university degree? My information is that this training would incur an additional cost of £24,000 per recruit, with failure by the recruit leading presumably to dismissal. I understand that other forces are committed to this route for recruiting by 2020. Does the Minister think this is a wise use of taxpayers’ hard-earned money, when there is a clear public demand for thousands more front-line, well-trained police officers on the ground in communities, with or without degrees, reaping essential intelligence, responding to calls and reassuring the public at a time of unprecedented increase in serious, violent street crime?

[Baroness Williams of Trafford]

It is important to have a wide range of entry routes for people who wish to join the police, which all conform to very high standards. I cannot comment on the cost that the noble Lord outlined, but it is really important that people should not have to have a degree to enter the police. There is no requirement for that, but the standard is set for degree-level qualification at the end of the training process.

[Lord Lexden (Con)]

My Lords, will these reforms mean that, in future, only men and women of the very highest ability are appointed to the post of chief constable, unlike Mr Mike Veale, whose disastrous Operation Conifer has inflicted such dreadful and unfair damage on Sir Edward Heath?

[Baroness Williams of Trafford]

I have to admire my noble friend for managing to weave in something that is so important to him. To make a very serious point, the whole aim of this is to have the highest standards of policing in our forces.

[Lord Paddick (LD)]

My Lords, the Scottish Justice Minister has ruled out direct entry into Police Scotland at inspector and superintendent level, because he considers experience of policing to be essential. He says:

“While training is, of course, important, officers must carry the authority and the respect of communities they serve, and also of their colleagues”.


I strongly agree. Why does the Home Office not agree?

--- Later in debate ---

[Baroness Williams of Trafford]

Both are important. Those with the skills required to go into the direct entry scheme are subject to very rigorous training and a rigorous selection process. The noble Lord is absolutely right that training thereafter, and experience in policing, are essential.

[Lord Kennedy of Southwark (Lab Co-op)]

My Lords, what action are the Government taking to ensure that requirements for degrees in many of the paths to become a police officer do not prevent good candidates with the required skills being appointed?

[Baroness Williams of Trafford]

It is absolutely right that good-quality candidates should be allowed to come forward. That is why there are a variety of options available to candidates. As I said to the noble Lord earlier, it is important that candidates do not necessarily need a degree to be able to go into the police force, but that they are educated and trained to degree level going forward, to make the best police officers.

[Lord Hogan-Howe (CB)]

My Lords, does the Minister agree that the purpose behind the College of Policing’s accreditation system is to do two things? First, as the Minister has already said, it aims to make sure that the training received is of a high standard—surely we all agree with that. At the moment, 50% of police officers recruited are graduates already. Secondly, for officers who have worked for 30 or 40 years in some cases, perhaps investigating murder, cybercrime, rape and other policing matters, it is really important that we accredit to graduate standard, because it allows those officers to move on to other careers at the end of their police career. It is not good enough to carry on as we have in the past, where we have not accredited great skills—but that does not mean to say that everyone has to be a graduate.

[Baroness Williams of Trafford]

The noble Lord is absolutely right and, of course, speaks from the highest experience. To be able to go on and do something else with the skills that you have accrued through, say, policing is really important. On the point about accreditation, it has to be recognised that the pattern of crime, and therefore of policing, has changed so much over the years. Police need to be trained in the new and emerging activities that criminals are undertaking—digital crime, for example.

[Lord Marlesford (Con)]

My Lords, in the days of national service—my noble friend will not remember those herself—12 weeks of very tough basic training, followed by 16 weeks at an officer cadet school, produced some outstanding officers who were well qualified for the job.

[Baroness Williams of Trafford]

I am not sure what the question was. However, my noble friend makes the point that the most rigorous training processes need to be gone through to make the best police officers. Also, because crime is changing, accreditation and standards need to be set for the new environment in policing.

[Lord Grocott (Lab)]

My Lords, I welcome the Minister’s assurance that she does not think it is essential for everyone to have a degree in order to be a police officer. However, does she agree that, with or without a degree, it is absolutely essential that those who get to the top echelons of the police service need the respect of people who have spent a career on the front line? Those on the front line are likely to have very little respect for people at the top if they have never had to do the day in, day out activities that police work entails, which are often dangerous and are essential to our community safety.

[Baroness Williams of Trafford]

The noble Lord goes to the point of leadership. The troops—the lower echelons, as he says—must have respect for those at the top. Therefore, those skills—which are not necessarily formed through degrees but rather through practical experience—are absolutely essential, in addition to the training and qualifications that they have.

Independent Child Sexual Abuse Inquiry

Baroness Williams of Trafford Excerpts

Monday 25th March 2019 Lords Chamber

[Lord Campbell-Savours]

To ask Her Majesty’s Government what plans they have to meet representatives of Falsely Accused Individuals for Reform (Fair) to discuss the operation of the Independent Inquiry into Child Sexual Abuse; and when they plan for any such meeting to be held.

[The Minister of State, Home Office (Baroness Williams of Trafford) (Con)]

My Lords, the Government have no plans to meet representatives of Falsely Accused Individuals for Reform to discuss the operation of the Independent Inquiry into Child Sexual Abuse. The inquiry operates independently of government and its independence is crucial to its effectiveness.

[Lord Campbell-Savours (Lab)]

My Lords, Sir Cliff Richard, Sir Edward Heath, Lords Brittan, Bramall and Janner, Paul Gambaccini and former MP Harvey Proctor were all prominent, all accused, and all treated by the media as guilty. They were never tried, but their reputations were trashed. They were never convicted, and therefore innocent in law. Those who are alive received damages; for the dead, there was not even an apology. Do Ministers really believe, in their heart of hearts, that the police invasion of their homes, with worldwide coverage through a lack of anonymity, and IICSA once again dragging their names through the mud of an inquiry—again, being transmitted around the world—is fair and just? Is it not fair to ask that these and many other cases are on an agenda between government and Fair?

[Baroness Williams of Trafford]

My Lords, I reiterate that the inquiry is not looking into whether Lord Janner or anyone else—the noble Lord mentioned a number of people—was guilty of any crimes, but at how institutions such as the police, which the noble Lord mentioned, responded to the allegations made against these people. The inquiry’s focus is deliberately on the conduct of institutions and how the allegations were dealt with. As noble Lords will know, the police guidance has been updated to make it clear that people should not be named before they are charged unless there is a public interest reason to do so.

[Lord Lexden (Con)]

Has not enough unfair damage been done to the reputations of the distinguished people to whom the noble Lord, Lord Campbell-Savours, referred? Should it not be our overriding duty to expunge it?

[Baroness Williams of Trafford]

I totally understand my noble friend’s point, and I know the feelings there are in this House about this matter. The noble Lord, Lord Paddick, has a Private Member’s Bill going through the House; on some of its substance, HMICFRS will undertake a review, and the Government want to wait until the outcome of that before taking any further action.

[Lord Paddick (LD)]

My Lords, it is clear from the Gatwick Airport drone incident in December that current guidelines—even the updated guidelines that the noble Baroness talked about—are not sufficient to protect those falsely accused of any offence from adverse publicity. How many more innocent people are going to have their lives ruined before the Government legislate?

[Baroness Williams of Trafford]

The noble Lord comes back to his Private Member’s Bill, in the sense that he is talking about the media. His Bill deals with media reporting before charge and after arrest. Again, I say to him that DCMS is minded to wait until HMICFRS has reviewed police guidance on media relations before considering whether further action should be taken.

[Lord Kennedy of Southwark (Lab Co-op)]

My Lords does the noble Baroness agree that we should always remember the victims, those who are raped and abused; recognise that these crimes are underreported; and make every effort to ensure that victims come forward and the perpetrators are brought to justice?

[Baroness Williams of Trafford]

I am very glad the noble Lord has asked that question. Quite often in these situations the victims can be overlooked, and thousands of accounts of sexual abuse have now been shared with the Truth Project, which noble Lords and others will have seen on the television. We must not overlook the victims. We must ensure that all the processes are in place in order that perpetrators will be brought to justice. Victims are, therefore, at the heart of what we do.

[Lord Cormack (Con)]

My Lords, am I correct in inferring from what my noble friend said that the Government will give their support to my noble friend Lord Lexden’s Bill?

[Baroness Williams of Trafford]

My Lords, I will have to consider it in due course.

[The Earl of Listowel (CB)]

Will the Minister advise the House whether victims are getting full therapeutic support to recover from their trauma? What steps are being taken to ensure that all victims get the excellent support they need to recover from their past trauma?

[Baroness Williams of Trafford]

The noble Earl raises a very important question, because of course some victims will never recover from the abuse and trauma they have suffered. The whole approach now of early intervention and putting a package of support around those who are utterly traumatised, and may be for the rest of their life, is absolutely key to any recovery that might be possible.

[Lord Campbell-Savours]

My Lords, the Minister has just told the House that this inquiry will not make findings of fact. Why then are the accusers to be heard in public session, transmitted all around the world, to make their accusations without even a proper interrogation of them?

[Baroness Williams of Trafford]

It is clear that there will be a mechanism for witnesses’ accounts to be examined and questioned. It will not be a one-sided process at all.

Refugees

Baroness Williams of Trafford Excerpts

Wednesday 20th March 2019 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Lister of Burtersett]

To ask Her Majesty’s Government what steps they are taking to prevent destitution among newly recognised refugees in the light of the British Red Cross Report Still an ordeal, published in December 2018.

[The Minister of State, Home Office (Baroness Williams of Trafford) (Con)]

My Lords, the Government are working on a number of important initiatives to ensure that refugees are able to access benefits and housing promptly, once their Home Office support ends. These include provision of a biometric residence permit with a national insurance number on it and arranging an appointment with their nearest Jobcentre if they confirm that they want assistance to make a benefit application.

[Baroness Lister of Burtersett (Lab)]

My Lords, it has been three years since this House was promised action to ensure that refugees have enough time to claim social security before their asylum support is stopped. The British Red Cross report shows that the actions mentioned by the noble Baroness have not solved the problem. The refugees surveyed who had claimed universal credit were left up to 72 days in destitution. Will the Minister therefore undertake, first, to publish the evaluation of the mitigating scheme, which was expected over a year ago, and, secondly, to meet with me and the British Red Cross to discuss the calls made for a long time by organisations on the ground to extend the moving-on period so as to end the ordeal and misery faced by this uniquely vulnerable group of people?

--- Later in debate ---

[Baroness Williams of Trafford]

My Lords, I acknowledge the report that the noble Baroness mentioned. There were something like 26 people interviewed, but that is not to dismiss it at all. I can confirm that the evaluation work that she mentioned on the impact of some of things that we are doing has been undertaken, and the results are to be shared with the Work and Pensions Select Committee and NGOs thereafter.

[Baroness Lister of Burtersett]

When?

[Baroness Williams of Trafford]

I can only say “in due course” at the moment, but I am very happy to meet with her and the Red Cross.

[Baroness Finlay of Llandaff (CB)]

Have the Government undertaken discussions with the banks? The problem is that universal credit is paid to banks, but refugees cannot prove residency and therefore need an alternative system to prove that they are refugees when opening a bank account.

[Baroness Williams of Trafford]

I certainly recognise that bank accounts are a difficulty for refugees. Local authorities were doing a pilot in 19 local authority areas, appointing 35 local authority liaison officers. They are there to give just that type of support, because we recognise that that is an issue.

[The Lord Bishop of Chester]

My Lords, is it not the 28 days that people have to make arrangements, when they change from being asylum seekers to being refugees, that is the difficulty? It takes me more than 28 days to open a bank account if I am on good form, and there are lots of other things that they have to think about. Could the period not be extended beyond 28 days? Universal credit often does not kick in for at least 35 days. The 28-day period is just too tight for people in these circumstances.

[Baroness Williams of Trafford]

I certainly recognise the point that the right reverend Prelate makes about 35 days for universal credit, because the move-on period is 28 days but the post-grant appointment service contacts the refugee at the start of the 28 days. The early findings are actually very positive on this new initiative. The majority who attend appointments get benefits before the 28-day period and, actually, on the subject of the 35-day universal credit payment, the advance UC payment as well.

[Baroness Janke (LD)]

My Lords, is the Minister aware that the number of rough sleepers whose last settled base was asylum accommodation has increased over the past three years? If the Government’s declared aim of ending rough sleeping is to be achieved, is it not essential that the move-on period be extended to 56 days, which is in line with homelessness legislation, which would give time for migrants to access financial support and for local authorities to take preventative steps?

[Baroness Williams of Trafford]

Our view is that elongating the move-on period does not necessarily solve the problem. What has been shown to be very effective is when the refugee is contacted right at the beginning of that period, so that the process of accessing universal credit or housing or other services can begin straightaway. Indeed, for universal credit, advance payments can be made ahead of 35 days.

[Baroness Meacher (CB)]

My Lords, noble Lords will know that most asylum seekers are not permitted to work during the period awaiting the decision on their application. They will have received just £37.70 per week from the Home Office. They are therefore absolutely without money when the decision finally comes through. Homelessness and destitution seem almost unavoidable in that situation. They have no chance of obtaining rented accommodation. Does the Minister accept that there really is a need for urgent steps if we are to eliminate destitution, particularly among this group? Will she take back to the department the need to allow asylum seekers to work during the period of waiting for their decision?

[Baroness Williams of Trafford]

The noble Baroness highlights the complex arguments around permitting asylum seekers to work, which the Government are certainly listening to very carefully. But it is also important to distinguish between those who need protection and those who are actually seeking to work here, who can apply for a work visa under the Immigration Rules.

[Lord Kennedy of Southwark (Lab Co-op)]

My Lords, does the noble Baroness accept that the present arrangements, as highlighted in this report, can plunge the asylum seeker accepted as a refugee into destitution?

[Baroness Williams of Trafford]

I certainly accept that the Government are doing everything they can to ensure that measures and interventions are put in place during the 28-day period to ensure that the person who has been granted asylum gets the help they need in a timely fashion and that they do not have a gap in which benefits are not paid. But I certainly think there are all sorts of situations, including this, where people can be brought into destitution inadvertently.

[Lord Alton of Liverpool (CB)]

My Lords, can I return the noble Baroness briefly to the question of the moving-on period and refer her to a letter that I wrote to her on 18 February? This detailed the experiences of the asylum and refugee community ARC Project Blackburn and the Lancashire Sanctuary Homes Project, giving details of the circumstances that newly recognised refugees have been unable to resolve during the 28-day period. These included things such as unscrupulous landlords and the condition of the accommodation they had been offered. Surely that gives more force to the argument advanced by other noble Lords in the House today that the period of grace should be longer than the current 28 days, perhaps by one month more.

[Baroness Williams of Trafford]

I did receive the noble Lord’s letter, and it is now with the Immigration Minister—that is not to fob it off on to the Immigration Minister, but the noble Lord will definitely get a response from the department. I do not accept the point about 56 days, but I accept that people should be given help, advice and the interventions that they need promptly so that they can get the support that they need.

Offensive Weapons Bill

Baroness Williams of Trafford Excerpts

3rd reading (Hansard): House of Lords
Tuesday 19th March 2019 Lords Chamber

[The Earl of Erroll (CB)]

My Lords, I agree with everything the noble Lord, Lord Lucas, has said. I also support this amendment, because it is a move in the right direction. To my mind, it does not go far enough because we are disadvantaging all UK distributors against all foreign ones. It just leaves a huge loophole—and personally I think the Government will be massacred in the press once what they are passing here comes to light—so I recommend they put at least this in.

[The Minister of State, Home Office (Baroness Williams of Trafford) (Con)]

My Lords, I am grateful to the noble Lord, Lord Kennedy, for his amendments, because they enable us to return to whether or not the Bill should provide exemptions to the prohibition on arranging delivery of bladed products to residential premises or a locker. I am grateful to him and to the Sheffield knife manufacturers for the time they spent in discussion with me on this.

The noble Lord tabled an amendment on Report on whether trusted traders should be exempt from the prohibitions in the Bill on arranging delivery of bladed products to residential premises or a locker. In response, I said we would look to have further discussions with delivery companies on the issue. We have discussed this with a number of companies that provide delivery services. It is difficult for delivery companies to give a firm view on how they might operate in this sphere in future, and it will depend to a large extent on whether the criminal liability falls on the seller, as it does in the Bill in relation to the UK, or on the deliverer, as it does in relation to overseas sellers under Clauses 38 and 41.

Whether deliverers would be willing to take on the criminal liability—and with it the risk of an unlimited fine—for the offence of handing over items to a person under 18 is likely to depend on the specific circumstances in each case; for example, where a major retailer is involved, a delivery company may be prepared to take on the criminal liability because the commercial benefits of the contract outweigh the risks, but a small retailer may decide not to take on the liability. Placing the liability on deliverers could therefore work against small manufacturers and retailers, meaning that big firms can still have their products delivered to a person’s home but small ones need to use a collection point. This would be a perverse outcome that would put small businesses at a commercial disadvantage to larger firms.

I turn now to the amendments. When we considered the trusted trader amendments previously, I expressed concerns that their effect would be to transfer the responsibility for complying with the legislation and for ensuring that all bladed products are handled properly from the seller to the Government. I have similar concerns about a scheme that would exempt sellers using a trusted courier from the prohibition on the delivery of bladed products to residential premises. A trusted courier scheme would require the Government to set out the details of the proposed scheme, which would then allow for the delivery of bladed products to residential premises.

--- Later in debate ---

Moved by

[Baroness Williams of Trafford]

10: Clause 45, page 42, line 19, at end insert—
“(14A) After subsection (12) insert— “(12A) An order under this section which has the effect that possession in private of a weapon of a particular description is, or is to become, an offence under subsection (1A) may make provision—(a) enabling arrangements to be made for the surrender of weapons of that description;(b) as to the procedure to be followed in relation to the surrender of such weapons;(c) for the payment of compensation in respect of weapons surrendered in accordance with the arrangements;(d) as to the requirements that must be met by a person making a claim for compensation;(e) as to the procedure to be followed in respect of a claim and for the determination of a claim;(f) enabling a person to exercise a discretion in determining whether to make a payment in response to a claim and the amount of such a payment.””Member’s explanatory statement
This amendment would mean that, where weapons are brought within the prohibition on possession in section 141(1A) of the Criminal Justice Act 1988 by order, the order can provide for compensation if required to do so by Article 1 of the First Protocol to the European Convention on Human Rights (but need not make this provision if not required to do so).

[Baroness Williams of Trafford]

My Lords, I will now speak to the amendments regarding kirpans, and in doing so express my gratitude to the noble Lords, Lord Kennedy and Lord Singh, and my noble friend Lady Verma. They have all been tireless in their promotion of this issue; I hope that the amendments will provide an outcome satisfactory to everyone. In particular, I am grateful to the noble Lord, Lord Singh, for his advice and to the organisation Sikhs in Politics, which has engaged positively with officials on the development of these amendments.

As noble Lords will recall, we held a round table on the issue of kirpans following the debate on these clauses in Grand Committee. This identified a gap in the current defences in that the cultural practice of gifting large ceremonial kirpans by Sikhs to eminent non-Sikhs was not covered by the “religious reasons” defence. These amendments will therefore create a defence for a person of Sikh faith to present another person with a curved sword in a religious ceremony or other ceremonial event, as covered by Section 141 of the Criminal Justice Act 1988.

These amendments will also create a defence for Sikhs of possessing such swords for the purposes of presenting them to others at a ceremony and for the recipients of such a gift to possess swords that have been presented to them. The amendments also ensure a defence is available for the ancillary acts, such as manufacture, sale, hire or importation, where those acts are for the purpose only of making the sword available for such presentation. Finally, the amendments enable the Department of Justice in Northern Ireland to commence the provision in relation to Northern Ireland, other than in relation to importation, which is a reserved matter.

As noble Lords will be aware, the amendments do not mention the word “kirpan”. Kirpans vary considerably in their size and shape, with the only common factor being their association with the Sikh faith. It would not be possible to include a defence for kirpans without defining them legally. However, we are clear that these defences are specifically aimed at kirpans and we will include a reference to kirpans in the final Explanatory Notes for the Bill. We will also make it clear in the statutory guidance that defences of “religious reasons” and gifting by ceremonial presentation include, in particular, the possession, supply and gifting of kirpans for those purposes. We will certainly continue to engage with Sikh organisations, including Sikhs in Politics, when we develop the statutory guidance. I hope that, given what I have said, noble Lords will be able to support these amendments. I forgot to mention the noble Lord, Lord Paddick, in my thanks, so I do that now.

I turn to the amendments on compensation arrangements. Amendment 10 will amend Section 141 of the Criminal Justice Act 1988, so that any future order made under this section which has the effect of banning possession in private of an offensive weapon may also make provision for the surrender and payment of compensation for such weapons. This amendment therefore provides statutory authority to introduce surrender and compensation arrangements for any future orders bringing additional offensive weapons into full prohibition. Without this amendment and the authority it provides, there could be doubt as to whether compensation could be paid for any future prohibited offensive weapons.

I should point out that this amendment differs slightly from the existing provisions found under Clause 48, which allow for compensation payments to be made for offensive weapons which the Bill prohibits private possession of. Clause 48 requires the Secretary of State, Scottish Ministers or the Department of Justice in Northern Ireland to provide for such payments by regulations. However, this amendment provides that the Secretary of State, Scottish Ministers or the Department of Justice in Northern Ireland may make provision for surrender arrangements and the subsequent payment of compensation.

This is an important difference as it allows the authority discretion in deciding whether or not to pay compensation for future items that become prohibited by way of an order. There may be exceptional circumstances in which it is considered that payment is not required under Article 1 of the Protocol to the European Convention on Human Rights. However, it is anticipated that in most circumstances, a payment would be appropriate, as is the case for weapons the possession of which is prohibited under this Bill. None the less, providing this discretion to pay or not to pay compensation for future items is important.

Amendments 14 to 19 will ensure that cyclone knives fall within the compensation and surrender arrangements as they stand in the Bill. Noble Lords will recall that cyclone knives were prohibited by virtue of the Bill through a government amendment in Committee in this House. This minor amendment will allow for compensation to be paid to owners of these knives, in the same way that the compensation arrangements apply to the other offensive weapons which the Bill provides private possession of.

Amendment 20 then amends the date by which a person needed to have owned or contracted to acquire a cyclone knife in order to claim compensation. The date, 20 June 2018, is already set out in the Bill, and continues to apply to these weapons, private possession of which was prohibited by the Bill on introduction. The date of 22 January 2019 will apply to cyclone knives. This will allow anyone who owned or contracted to acquire a cyclone knife, up until the date that the government amendment prohibiting them was introduced, to claim for compensation.

Amendments 21 and 22 are consequential. Amendments 26 and 27 relate to Northern Ireland. Clauses 47 and 48 will come into force upon Royal Assent. However, these amendments allow the Department of Justice in Northern Ireland to commence these provisions locally.

I remind noble Lords that the compensation regulations which we have published in draft are subject to the affirmative procedure following assent to the Bill. Accordingly, they will need to be debated and approved by both Houses before they can come into force. I beg to move.

[Lord Paddick]

My Lords, I am very grateful to the Minister for the amendments relating to kirpans—even though the legislation does not refer to kirpans as such—because of the importance to the Sikh community of presenting the ceremonial curved sword as a mark of esteem.

Representatives from the Sikh community have also pointed out the difficulties that some Sikhs have in carrying a kirpan on their person as part of their religious observance. Although it is accepted that it has not been a problem in terms of prosecution, the fact that possession of a bladed article or pointed instrument is an offence—without the need for any criminal intent—has created difficulties for Sikhs when visiting attractions such as Madame Tussauds and the London Eye. Sikhs have been barred from going into those attractions because of having a kirpan on them. The security guards are working on the basis that the law states that possession of a pointed instrument or a bladed article is an offence, and therefore a person is not allowed to bring it in. I do not know whether there is any scope here. The Minister has already mentioned the Explanatory Notes for the final legislation, including instructions about what is and is not a kirpan. Could anything be mentioned in those notes regarding the issue that some Sikhs have with regard to entry to those sorts of premises?

--- Later in debate ---

Moved by

[Baroness Williams of Trafford]

11: Clause 46, page 43, line 3, leave out “(7)” and insert “(7B)”
Member’s explanatory statement
This amendment and the Minister's amendments at page 43, line 43 and page 43, line 44 would create defences to the offences in section 141(1) and (1A) of the Criminal Justice Act 1988 and section 50(2) and (3) of the Customs and Excise Management Act 1979 relating to the presentation of Sikh kirpans. This follows the Minister's undertaking on 4 March (HL Deb, column 470).

--- Later in debate ---

Moved by

[Baroness Williams of Trafford]

14: Clause 47, page 44, line 20, after “45” insert “(by itself or in combination with section 46)”
Member’s explanatory statement
This amendment and the Minister's other amendments to this Clause and Clause 48 would ensure that the provisions for surrender and compensation in this Clause and Clause 48 cover weapons which are brought within section 141 of the Criminal Justice Act 1988 by virtue of Clause 46(2), (3) or (10).

--- Later in debate ---

Moved by

[Baroness Williams of Trafford]

17: Clause 48, page 45, line 20, after “45” insert “(by itself or in combination with section 46)”
Member’s explanatory statement
See the explanation of the Minister's amendment at page 44, line 20.

--- Later in debate ---

Moved by

[Baroness Williams of Trafford]

21: Clause 68, page 59, line 27, after “(7)” insert “and (14A)”
Member’s explanatory statement
This amendment is consequential on the Minister's amendment at page 42, line 19.

--- Later in debate ---

Moved by

[Baroness Williams of Trafford]

24: Clause 69, page 61, line 42, leave out “to 46” and insert “and 45”
Member’s explanatory statement
This amendment and the Minister's second amendment at page 61, line 42 would mean that the Department of Justice in Northern Ireland could bring Clause 46 into force only so far as it does not make provision about the unlawful importation of weapons.

--- Later in debate ---

Moved by

[Baroness Williams of Trafford]

That the Bill do now pass.

[Baroness Williams of Trafford]

My Lords, on moving this Motion, I take the opportunity to say a few words of thanks to those who have contributed to the Bill’s passage through your Lordships’ House. I thank my noble friends Lady Barran and Lord Howe for undertaking some of the heavy lifting in Committee and on Report. Among all the Bills that I have dealt with this has not been the easiest, so I thank them very much. I also thank my noble friend Lady Manzoor for acting as the Government Whip on the Bill, and, on the opposition Benches, the noble Lords, Lord Kennedy, Lord Rosser, Lord Tunnicliffe and Lord Paddick, and the noble Baroness, Lady Hamwee—and my noble friend Lord Attlee for his well-drafted amendment on the storage of certain firearms.

I cannot, of course, omit the noble Lord, Lord Singh, for his constructive assistance in the drafting of the amendment on the kirpan. In fact, I thank all the Sikh organisations with which we have engaged during the Bill’s passage. I thank all noble Lords across the House who have contributed in various ways to the Bill. None of us could do it without officials from the Home Office, who have supported me and my noble friends Lady Barran and Lord Howe throughout the its passage.

The Bill has taken some funny twists and turns but has not lost sight of our ultimate aim, which is to end the scourge of this terrible crime on our streets and in our communities. I am pleased to have been able to reach a position of broad consensus on all but two of the Bill’s provisions, namely the introduction of KCPOs and the delivery of bladed articles. We are, however, continuing to reflect on these issues in advance of the Bill going to and returning from the House of Commons. I beg to move.

[Lord Kennedy of Southwark]

I thank the noble Baroness for the way she has conducted the Bill through the House. I also thank the noble Baroness, Lady Barran, and the noble Earl, Lord Howe. I appreciate the constructive way they have engaged with the House, as they always do. I also place on record my thanks to my noble friends Lord Rosser and Lord Tunnicliffe for the help that they have given me, as well as to the noble Lord, Lord Paddick, and the noble Baroness, Lady Hamwee. I was grateful, too, for the contributions of many other noble Lords from around the House, particularly those of the noble Lords, Lord Lucas and Lord Singh, and the noble Earl, Lord Erroll.

We are certainly sending the Bill back in a better state than that in which it arrived. I am not sure that it will quite achieve all the things that it wants to do, but I certainly support its aims. We have done a good job. I also thank the Bill team at the Home Office, who have always been very courteous and happy to engage with me and other colleagues. I also put on record my thanks to Ben Wood, who works in the Opposition office here in the House of Lords and has kept me armed with briefing notes, amendments and everything else.

Child Sexual Exploitation Victims

Baroness Williams of Trafford Excerpts

Tuesday 19th March 2019 Lords Chamber

[The Minister of State, Home Office (Baroness Williams of Trafford) (Con)]

My Lords, with the leave of the House, I shall now repeat in the form of a Statement the Answer given in the other place by my honourable friend the Minister for Crime and Safeguarding. The Statement is as follows:

“As you have outlined, Mr Speaker, I am conscious this question relates to an ongoing legal case and as such, it would not be appropriate to comment on the specific case or cases. But I reassure you that the Government want all victims and survivors of sexual abuse and exploitation to feel that they can come forward to report abuse, and that they get the support they need when they do. We are committed to working across government to ensure victims can move on from the abuse they have suffered and that professionals, including the police, who come into contact with a victim recognise exploitation when they see it and respond appropriately.

The Government are committed to acting to protect the public and to helping employers make safe recruitment decisions. The disclosure and barring regime is an important part of supporting employers to make informed recruitment decisions in relation to roles working with children and vulnerable adults, and a limited range of other circumstances. The criminal record disclosure regime seeks to strike a balance between safeguarding children and the vulnerable and enabling individuals to put their offending behind them.

The House will be aware that the Supreme Court recently handed down a judgment in the case of P and others, which affects certain rules governing the disclosure regime. The Government are considering the implications of the judgment and will respond in due course. However, it is also important to note that the Supreme Court recognised that the regime balances public protection with the rights of individuals to a private life. It applies only to certain jobs that are protected, and it is for employers to decide someone’s suitability for a role once they are armed with the facts”.

[Lord Kennedy of Southwark (Lab Co-op)]

My Lords, I thank the Minister for repeating the Answer to the Urgent Question given in the other place earlier today. The victims of sexual abuse and exploitation have the pain of the trauma they have suffered with them every day of their lives. It cannot be right that the victims are forced to live with the consequence of the exploitation that they have suffered: that is a further injustice. Will the Minister set out the Government’s position in respect of Sammy’s law? That would appear to be our way forward.

[Baroness Williams of Trafford]

I can talk about Sammy Woodhouse. The noble Lord will know that she was discussed in the other place. Victoria Atkins met Sammy Woodhouse on 14 March 2018 to talk through her ideas and understand how government can best help her and other victims of exploitation. The Minister said that the Government would work with the police, the CPS and others to protect future victims of exploitation and ensure that we do not unnecessarily criminalise those who have been exploited. In respect of Sammy’s law, the Government are considering the recent court judgment on previous convictions of victims but I cannot comment further due to ongoing legal proceedings.

[Baroness Burt of Solihull (LD)]

My Lords, this case is about three women who were sexually exploited as girls, forced into prostitution and therefore have convictions for soliciting. For years, the injustice perpetrated on them has been compounded, as they have been obliged to declare these convictions that they received in their early lives in job applications and even in applying for their local PTA. They won the High Court case, yet I understand the Minister to be saying that the Government have announced their intention to challenge the decision.

The Minister talked about the criminal record disclosure system seeking to,

“strike a balance between safeguarding children and the vulnerable and enabling individuals to put that offending behind them”.

I am struggling to see that balance. I know that the Government cannot comment on ongoing cases, but can the Minister tell us what the mechanism would be for the Government to think again and apply fairness and compassion in these cases?

[Baroness Williams of Trafford]

The noble Baroness is absolutely right that I cannot comment on an ongoing legal case. What I can understand—and what the Government have sought to do and succeeded in doing over the last few years—is to see people as both victims and perpetrators through some of the coercion and exploitation in which they have been involved. We will consider this as the case proceeds, but the Government have put a great deal of time and effort into working with people who have been exploited and who find themselves victims of child sexual exploitation, gangs, knife crime or drug involvement. There have been various interventions: the noble Baroness will have listened to debates on the Offensive Weapons Bill and will have heard me outline the youth endowment fund, which we are bringing forward. She will have listened to the various multiagency approaches to helping victims of child sexual exploitation get over the terrible pain that has been caused to them, to avoid getting trapped in what originally happened to them, and to go on to lead good lives.

[Baroness Hollins (CB)]

My Lords, it is very concerning to hear that young people who have been groomed into criminal activity and then become victims of sexual abuse and discouraged from even disclosing their abuse because of the fear of their own criminalisation should then not have the opportunity to have those crimes forgotten. Can the Minister tell the House whether such young people are also then denied access to criminal injury compensation? Is this indeed the case?

[Baroness Williams of Trafford]

The noble Baroness will of course appreciate that every case is different. She will also realise that, as I just outlined to the noble Baroness, Lady Burt, the big spectrum of exploitation that children can suffer can also manifest itself in different ways. The Government are determined to deal with some of these problems at source, with early intervention and prevention, so that children do not find themselves sexually exploited and are able to go on to lead lives that are free from the sorts of harms that we have been talking about.