Mental Health Bill [Lords]

Danny Chambers Excerpts

2nd reading
Monday 19th May 2025 Commons Chamber

[Dr Danny Chambers (Winchester) (LD)]

I thank the Secretary of State for introducing this really important Bill, and the Minister for his proactive engagement with us earlier this week. Before I entered Parliament, I was a trustee of the veterinary mental health charity Vetlife, which cares for the mental health of the veterinary profession—I have had to clarify before that it is not a mental health charity for animals with mental health issues. I became a trustee of the charity because my really close friend Sarah, at the age of just 31, when she had her whole life and career ahead of her, took her own life; I took her place as a trustee. Getting the news that I had lost her was one of the most painful experiences of my life. Many hon. Members in the Chamber will have suffered similar experiences with their friends and loved ones.

I speak about Sarah because while we are in this place, we rightly often discuss mental health issues using statistics—we talk about waiting times, workforce shortages and the economic impact—but we must never forget that there are individual lives behind the numbers, and nearly every person in the country is affected in some way. That might be through their own struggles or those of a loved one, or through grief after someone they care about has lost their battle with depression.

To return briefly to statistics, veterinary medicine—the profession I come from—has a suicide rate four times the national average. It is a small profession where everyone knows everyone, and everyone has lost a friend or a colleague to suicide. I share that not just for awareness, but because it reminds us that certain groups are at much higher risk—they are more vulnerable than others—and we should do much more to identify and support them.

[Sarah Dyke (Glastonbury and Somerton) (LD)]

My hon. Friend, as a veterinarian, will know that farmers also suffer with significant mental health issues. My constituents are under immense pressure following the family farm tax and the sudden closure of the sustainable farming incentive. Alongside that, they work extremely long hours, and the unpredictability of farm work means that it is more difficult for them to access mental health support and doctors’ appointments. Does he agree that we should introduce regular mental health MOT checks at key points in people’s lives—when they are most vulnerable to mental ill health—particularly for those in rural areas where there are barriers to accessing support?

[Dr Chambers]

My hon. Friend will not be surprised that I agree with her; she may as well have read the next bit of my speech. She is completely right. Farmers, those working in agriculture, military veterans and their families, mothers in the first year after childbirth, people living in poverty and the LGBTQ+ community are just a few of the groups that we know are at heightened risk.

We already take a proactive approach when it comes to physical health; we have targeted cancer screenings for at-risk demographics. We should take the same approach to mental health. That is why the Liberal Democrats have long called for properly resourced community mental health hubs, which could reach people before they reached crisis point. We are also calling, as my hon. Friend just did, for regular mental health check-ups at key life stages—for example, when someone has just given birth or just been discharged from the Army.

[Freddie van Mierlo (Henley and Thame) (LD)]

My hon. Friend is outlining the treatment options for patients. New medicines are also incredibly important, and groundbreaking research is happening at the Warneford hospital in Oxfordshire, a mental health hospital that is in desperate need of investment. Treatment options and new medicines go hand in hand, so does he agree that the Government should get behind the Warneford and invest in it?

[Dr Chambers]

I agree with my hon. Friend and thank him for his intervention.

Mental health MOTs could help to catch at-risk people early, so that we can start treating them before the problems develop further. I am sure that for all Members present mental health issues are among the top areas in our email inboxes and our correspondence. We receive emails from desperate parents of young people who are left on waiting lists for years throughout their schooling, and from adults falling between the cracks of an overstretched system. We should probably acknowledge that these are not anomalies. They are the symptoms of a system that is under immense strain. This long-awaited Mental Health Bill is a very welcome step, but it cannot be the only step, because at the heart of our approach must be the simple principle that prevention is better than cure.

[Victoria Collins (Harpenden and Berkhamsted) (LD)]

I absolutely support the idea that we need to invest in prevention—I am 100% behind that—but I have also spoken to many constituents who have issues with emergency health care. One of my constituents, Ed, sadly took his own life. He went into A&E undergoing a psychotic episode and was left simply with a phone number and no assessment. Hours later, he was lost. We need to ensure that those who need emergency treatment get it on the spot, as well as investing in prevention. Does my hon. Friend agree with that principle?

[Dr Chambers]

I totally agree, and I will come on to the care of people once they have been discharged after an acute mental health episode, because it is a hugely emotive and problematic situation.

We need a comprehensive mental health strategy that sees mental health not just as a clinical issue but, as the Secretary of State said, something that needs to run through housing, education, employment and justice. Good clinical services are vital, but we cannot medicate or refer our way out of a mental health crisis. Many mental health issues are often rooted in deeper challenges including poverty, housing, insecurity, loneliness, debt and trauma. These are not medical problems, but they put people at huge risk of developing mental health issues, and if we are serious about prevention we must tackle these root causes head-on.

The Bill focuses very much on the rights and treatment of people once they are admitted to mental health units, which is essential, but what is just as important—as my hon. Friend the Member for Harpenden and Berkhamsted (Victoria Collins) has just highlighted—is what happens when they are discharged and what support they get in the community to prevent a relapse. In Winchester, we have seen a brilliant initiative between local NHS mental health teams and Citizens Advice. Teams from Citizens Advice are in a mental health unit called Melbury Lodge, and they help mental health patients with all their life admin—the bills, the correspondence—so that they are not discharged back into the community only to come home to a load of outstanding credit card bills and demands to repay their personal independence payments, for example.

What is remarkable is that every pound spent on that initiative saves £14.08 in cost avoidance for the NHS through shorter in-patient stays, fewer readmissions, better engagement of services once they are discharged and a reduction in medication use. This is a win-win for staff, patients and the taxpayer, but it is a pilot project and there is no funding secured for it to continue, despite the proven cost-saving benefits. We urge the Government to look seriously at rolling out such initiatives nationwide.

My hon. Friend the Member for Dorking and Horley (Chris Coghlan) has been passionately campaigning since entering this House to ensure that families have a greater input into medical decisions when there are questions over the mental capacity of vulnerable patients, and I invite him to make an intervention now.

[Chris Coghlan (Dorking and Horley) (LD)]

I thank my hon. Friend. As he knows, in my maiden speech eight months ago I pledged that Fiona Laskaris would succeed in changing the law that had prevented her from saving her autistic son, Christopher, from murder. Fiona is here today. Despite pleading for years, she was never able to obtain a mental capacity assessment for her son. As we heard from the Secretary of State, the Government are now seriously looking at an amendment that would both honour Christopher’s legacy and save lives. Does my hon. Friend support that amendment?

[Dr Chambers]

I thank my hon. Friend for that moving intervention and offer my condolences to those in the Gallery. We appreciate that the Secretary of State is seriously considering an amendment that might help save lives.

Early intervention cannot just be a slogan; it has to be the foundation of a functional system. Last week, I sat around a campfire with the amazing team at the Winchester youth counselling services. That charity has a nature therapy programme in which 11 to 16-year-olds can go camping, have walk-and-talk therapies and do bushcraft and outdoor cooking. While we were toasting our marshmallows, the team were talking about the free, confidential mental health support that they offer, providing services such as one-to-one counselling and a weekly wellbeing walk-in session. By immersing young people in nature, this programme helps to reduce stress and anxiety and fosters emotional wellbeing and resilience. Crucially, the services are accessible without the need for a doctor’s referral or diagnosis. Young people can self-refer, ensuring that support is available promptly when it is needed most. This is why Liberal Democrats have been calling for mental health hubs for young people in every community. We support the Government’s campaign for a mental health professional in every primary and secondary school—not just an occasional visit or a pilot scheme, but a permanent funded presence.

[Edward Morello (West Dorset) (LD)]

Just to follow up on my hon. Friend’s point about the importance of mental health hubs, in West Dorset the only child and adolescent mental health services centre is in Dorchester, and for many people in my constituency, especially young people, that means at least a 30-mile round trip to access services. In rural Britain, we are lucky if transport links exist, and those that do are often limited. That makes accessing services nearly impossible, which is what makes hubs so important.

[Dr Chambers]

I totally recognise the importance of that intervention.

We also need a system that is much easier to navigate. A psychiatrist came to see me in my office in Winchester and told me that his son had been referred to CAMHS. He said that despite the fact that he and his wife worked in the medical profession, they had really struggled to access the help that they needed. He said:

“If we can’t navigate the system, what chance does anyone else have?”

That is one reason that Liberal Democrats are calling for a mental health commissioner: someone to champion families, cut through bureaucracy and help people to get the support they need before things get worse. The system needs to be simplified, both for the parents and families who are trying to access the service and to allow the system itself to function.

For years, Liberal Democrats have campaigned for mental health to be treated equally with physical health, and we welcome the commitment to parity in the King’s Speech, but it must be backed by action. The Darzi report showed that mental health accounts for around 20% of the NHS case burden—as the Secretary of State acknowledged—yet it receives just under 10% of the funding. For this reason, we want to ensure that the mental health investment standard is maintained and strengthened, and not quietly scrapped or watered down. The Secretary of State also highlighted the scale of this challenge. Around 1 million people are on waiting lists for mental health services, but importantly, 340,000 children are on mental health waiting lists and some of them are waiting an average of 15 months for care, which is a huge chunk of their educational time and personal development. This is not a crisis that is waiting to happen; it is a crisis that is already here.

In this economic crisis, some people ask how can we afford to invest in mental health, but the real question is how can we afford not to do so, because we already pay the price in lost productivity, emergency call-outs, A&E admissions and—most tragically of all—lives cut short. We must spend to save.

The hon. Member for Bermondsey and Old Southwark (Neil Coyle) spoke about spending time with police. I have done the same thing—a fascinating and informative exercise. I encourage everyone to go on patrol with their police. In Winchester, the police say they spend up to 40% of their time responding to mental health-related incidents. We know that patients turn up to A&E in mental health crisis, many already on a mental health waiting list. I heard that the average amount of time someone spends in a mental health crisis in Winchester’s A&E, often needing individual supervision, is 18 hours. That is not sustainable, because we are using the most expensive part of our health system to do the work that should be happening earlier, which would be more cost effective for the taxpayer and provide better outcomes for patients.

Finally, I pay tribute to all those on the frontline: the nurses, counsellors, psychiatrists, doctors, therapists, support staff and charities who prop up a system that should be supporting them. We very much look forward to working constructively with the Government to improve the Bill, and we support it. We will keep pushing until we live in a country where mental health gets the same attention and care as physical health.

Hospitals

Danny Chambers Excerpts

Wednesday 23rd April 2025 Commons Chamber

[Dr Danny Chambers (Winchester) (LD)]

It seems that Members on both sides of the House have been experiencing similar problems in the hospitals that they represent. Years of under-investment has left many hospitals with leaking roofs, for instance. My hon. Friend the Member for Torbay (Steve Darling) spoke of sewage in clinical areas—I thought that sewage was the subject of the next debate; it is outrageous that we should be discussing its presence in our hospitals—and my hon. Friend the Member for Oxford West and Abingdon (Layla Moran) told us about a room full of incubators which had to be removed because the ceiling was at risk of collapsing. It is crazy that operating theatres and hospital rooms are unused not because of a lack of staff, but because they are not safe enough for people to work in.

Like many other Members, I regularly meet hospital leaders and managers—in my case, at our local hospital in Winchester—to discuss the problems that they are experiencing. Despite the heroic efforts of the staff at the Royal Hampshire County hospital, they are facing a set of issues similar to those that have been raised time and again this afternoon, including, again, leaking roofs over treatment areas. Like the hospital mentioned by my hon. Friend the Member for Epsom and Ewell (Helen Maguire), ours has old, outdated lifts that fail, making it difficult to transport patients from wards to the operating theatre. It has no back-up power generators, so there is a risk to patients’ safety during power cuts.

[Gideon Amos (Taunton and Wellington) (LD)]

My hon. Friend has mentioned faulty buildings and roofs. In Musgrove Park hospital in Taunton, staff are fainting in temperatures of 30°C in temporary buildings where there is no cooling machinery, while mums are trying to give birth in the same ward. That is completely unacceptable. We need interim funding if the hospital—which was mentioned earlier today by my right hon. Friend the Member for Kingston and Surbiton (Ed Davey)—is to survive until 2033, when the promised funding is meant to arrive.

[Dr Chambers]

It is indeed unacceptable, in respect of patients’ safety but also health and safety at work, because the health of the staff is being put at risk as well.

These are not minor inconveniences; they are daily threats to patients’ care and they cost us dear, so why are we not fixing them? Failure on the part of the last Government is no excuse for continued delay, and saying “We cannot afford it” when the cost of inaction is higher is simply nonsensical. The longer we wait, the more it will cost the taxpayer. Much has been said about trust in politics, and we will not forget what happened in our part of Hampshire when Conservatives stood on election manifestos promising to deliver a new hospital for which they never had any funds. There was no funding secured and no shovel-ready plan, but they campaigned on the issue repeatedly, hoping that the voters would not find out until it was too late.

Other Members have pointed out that GP surgeries are being particularly neglected. The Budget allocated funds to cover additional upgrades for just 200 GP surgeries out of a total of 6,000. With the Government’s jobs tax hitting GPs, it is becoming harder for those practices to fund their own improvements. However, I was pleased that the hon. Member for Stroud (Dr Opher) mentioned the importance of primary care and mental health. This is, of course, a debate on hospitals and hospital infrastructure, but I know there is cross-party agreement on the fact that keeping people healthy in the community—whether that involves investment in primary care, mental health or public health services—is much more cost-effective for taxpayers as well as being better for patients.

We really welcome the Minister’s warm words on social care. We had a social care roundtable just yesterday, and we heard that every pound spent on social care saves the NHS £3. We urge the Government to hold cross-party talks as soon as possible, because for every year that we delay getting a plan for social care, people are languishing in hospitals on delayed discharge which is costing us a huge amount of money.

We have to end the vicious cycle of false economies and fortunes being spent on papering over the cracks. The total repair backlogs at the delayed new hospital sites could reach an estimated £5.7 billion by the time construction starts. Are the Government really of the view that keeping hospitals on life support is a good use of taxpayers’ money? Repairing and replacing crumbling NHS buildings is not just about treating more patients; it is about reviving and boosting our economy. Here is the truth: we will not grow our economy unless we reinvest in the services that support it.

Let us change course. We urge the Government to reverse the long delays in the new hospital programme, because many will not be open until the 2040s on the current timeline, and those hospitals have to be kept functioning until then; to set out a 10-year investment plan to fix hospitals and GP surgeries; to urgently release funds that have already been committed, to start construction straightaway; and to publish a plan to recruit and retain a skilled workforce to carry out the work efficiently. That is what investing to save looks like. It means improving care, lowering long-term costs and building a stronger, healthier economy. The Conservatives chose to cut investment, which led to higher costs. Our plan is to increase investment now so that we can lower costs in the future.

We urge the Government not simply to patch over the damage done to our NHS. As the Liberal politician William Beveridge, who was a visionary behind the formation of the NHS, said:

“A revolutionary moment…is a time for revolutions, not for patching.”

Let us be bold, and let us invest now. It will be better for the taxpayer, it will be better for patients, and it will boost our economy.

Male Suicide in Rotherham

Danny Chambers Excerpts

Monday 24th March 2025 Commons Chamber

[Jake Richards]

That service in my hon. Friend’s constituency sounds vital—just like those in my constituency. The focus on veterans in particular is critical.

Suicide does not simply affect the person taking their own life. Families lose loved ones and towns and villages are scarred by the traumatic loss of people with great promise and talent. The number of men who kill themselves every year is eclipsed by the number of people affected by their loss. I will use my role as the local MP to press the Government to take action. There are specific policy issues that I want to raise.

I am very aware of specific issues to do with gambling and male suicide. I have met two local mothers who are fighting for justice after their sons, both of whom were hard-working, talented and honourable men, took their own lives far too young as a result of spiralling online gambling addictions. Social media and technology have allowed vulnerable users easier access to gambling. A report found two years ago that there had been a 43% annual rise in demand for NHS gambling clinics, and that one in three of those patients had already attempted to take their own lives. It is estimated that every year there are more than 400 gambling-related suicides in England—and those are the ones we know of. I have before urged the Government to consider ways in which we can empower coroners courts, and indeed place responsibilities on coroners, to look at these issues in a robust and rigorous manner. At the moment, the causative link between gambling addiction and suicide is not given appropriate recognition.

There are broader issues. Although the issue of men’s mental health is complex, there are specific policy areas that the Government must confront. First, the rates of men taking their own lives are highest in the most deprived communities. The suicide rate in the most deprived 10% of areas in England in the two years from 2017 to 2019 was 14.1%—almost double the rate in the least deprived areas. Indeed, rates of men taking their own lives in the regions of England are almost double what they are in London. Tackling poverty and insecure work across our country is a Labour mission, and it is one that will save lives.

[Dr Danny Chambers (Winchester) (LD)]

I thank the hon. Member for giving way and for speaking so eloquently about this difficult and sensitive subject. On that point, it is known that those living in poverty are three times more likely to take their own lives or have mental health issues than people on the average wage. Linking into that, 85% of homeless people are men, and their homelessness is often related to mental health issues. I appreciate all the work that he is doing to highlight poverty.

[Jake Richards]

There is a direct link and we should not shy away from acknowledging, confronting and talking about it. When we talk about tackling poverty, we are talking about saving lives, too.

Secondly, we must save our NHS. This Government inherited a dilapidated health service and a particularly severely under-resourced mental health service. Fourteen years of under-investment and chaotic reform have hindered efforts to grasp this crisis. Long delays for treatment and diagnosis mean that so many men cannot get the support that they need and face worsening mental health in the meantime.

Thirdly, in my view we must be bolder in acknowledging the role that technology and social media have played in this crisis. New technology and social media can help efforts to combat men in difficult times: the internet can allow faster access to mental health provisions and can provide a network. However, it has been clear for more than a decade now that technology and social media can be deeply damaging to mental health, eroding confidence, often siloing rather than enhancing our communities, and exposing people to potentially harmful material. I know that many colleagues in the House have been moved by the Netflix drama “Adolescence”, which shines a light on the way the internet can remould ideas of masculinity and purpose—completely unbeknown to those closest to the 13-year-old boy in that drama.

Men, especially our young men, are spending less time outside and less time meeting people and communicating in person—all things that make us far happier and healthier. They are often sat alone for hours being bombarded with algorithms showing unrealistic representations of life, or communicating through anonymous group chats. Research shows that self-harm content has sometimes been allowed to flourish on social media by companies failing to remove explicit images and encouraging those engaging with such content to befriend one another. The arrival of smartphones has taken place in parallel with sharp rises in depression and anxiety in our young people. Of particular concern is the impact that mobile phones have on our young people. The average 12-year-old now spends 29 hours a week on their phone—equivalent to doing a part-time job.

Maternity Services

Danny Chambers Excerpts

Tuesday 25th February 2025 Westminster Hall

[Dr Danny Chambers (Winchester) (LD)]

It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Sir Christopher. I thank my hon. Friend the Member for Chichester (Jess Brown-Fuller) for securing the debate. She spoke movingly and eloquently, and reminded everyone that these are not just statistics, but people.

I will make three points very briefly. My hon. Friend the Member for Eastleigh (Liz Jarvis) touched on maternal mental health. As the mental health spokesperson for the Liberal Democrats, I was as shocked as anyone to know that the No. 1 cause of death for women in the 12 months post giving birth is taking their own life. That is tragic, and it is one reason why my team are organising an event in Parliament in April with the group Delivering Better to bring together women who have experienced mental health challenges during pregnancy and after childbirth. The event will provide a platform to share stories, raise awareness and discuss how we can improve support and services for mothers across the country.

I recently attended the 120th anniversary of the vet school at Liverpool, where I went to university. I spoke to the pro-vice-chancellor, Professor Louise Kenny, who is a consultant obstetrician and has done a lot of research on health during gestation and the months after birth, and we discussed the latest research. We have not touched on that today, but I will do so briefly now. Healthy gestation is the foundation of a person’s lifelong health, and it has a far greater impact than any lifestyle changes in adulthood. We need to look not just at birth itself, but at the care of the mother before birth—everything from stress to nutrition.

Maternal Mental Health

Danny Chambers Excerpts

Wednesday 5th February 2025 Westminster Hall

[Dr Danny Chambers (Winchester) (LD)]

It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Ms Furniss. I commend the hon. Member for Aylesbury (Laura Kyrke-Smith) for securing this hugely important debate and speaking so eloquently about her friend. As someone who has lost a close friend to suicide, I completely agree that they are not defined by their death, but by the impact they had during their life and the impact they had on other people.

Suicide is the leading cause of death among women in the six weeks to 12 months after giving birth, and maternal mental health in Winchester and across the UK is in crisis. As the Lib Dem spokesperson for mental health, I am hearing more and more stories about this from individual women. Every year, 600,000 women give birth, and one in five of those women will experience a perinatal mental health condition. This is a completely neglected mental health crisis, on an extremely large scale.

Polling from as recently as December 2024, commissioned by the campaign Delivering Better, representatives of which I am pleased are in the Public Gallery today, found that seven out of 10 women who have a negative birthing experience say that it has had a long-term impact on their mental health. A recurring theme is that women are not being listened to—that has been a theme in essentially every major maternity inquiry. Women are not listened to when they raise concerns pre, during and post labour, not listened to when they raise complaints with trusts about their care, and not listened to by successive Governments who have failed to treat this issue with the seriousness it demands. If this crisis is to be meaningfully addressed, far greater emphasis needs to be placed on the voices and experience of women and birthing people.

[Lola McEvoy (Darlington) (Lab)]

I thank the hon. Member for giving way and thank my hon. Friend the Member for Aylesbury (Laura Kyrke-Smith) for securing the debate. Does the hon. Member agree that, given the scale of the problem and the barriers to new parents and new mothers asking for help, it is important that this Government focus on pre-emptive support, in case people are struggling with their mental health? We should assume that having a child will affect women’s mental health, and that assumption would force the Government to take a proactive approach to supporting women in that time.

[Dr Chambers]

I completely agree with the hon. Member and thank her for her important intervention. For years, we have been calling for better community healthcare. We know the demographics who are at high risk of mental health issues: not only women who are within a year of giving birth, but a whole load of other people, such as military veterans and farmers. Those groups of people need proactive help before they reach crisis point. It is more cost-effective to treat them earlier, rather than to pick up the pieces once they are in a crisis.

The Government recently announced that they will drop women’s health targets to avoid overspending, but it is clear that women’s health, including maternity care, has been deprioritised for too long. I urge them to reconsider.

Tobacco and Vapes Bill (Fifteenth sitting)

Danny Chambers Excerpts

Committee stage
Thursday 30th January 2025 Public Bill Committees

[Dr Danny Chambers (Winchester) (LD)]

I was absolutely shocked to learn that cigarette butts account for one in five pieces of discarded plastic. When it is predicted that by 2050 there will be more tonnage of plastic in the ocean than fish, we should look at every way possible of protecting the environment and wildlife from plastic pollution. Back in 2019, a third successful dive was made to the Mariana trench—the deepest part of the ocean; it is 36,000 feet deep, which is greater than the height at which jumbo jets fly—and I was surprised that when the people were down there documenting previously unseen life forms, they came across plastic pollution. This is such a serious issue that we need to look at every way possible of reducing plastic pollution. Those tiny cigarette butts in particular can be swallowed by a huge number of creatures, as well as contaminating the environment.

[Dr Johnson]

I thank the hon. Gentleman for that important intervention. He is absolutely right that these items are a huge danger to the environment, and it is sad when we go to parts of our world that are still not well explored, such as the Mariana trench, and find evidence of damage caused by the human race, such as plastic pollution. Although I have huge sympathy for people who have become addicted to nicotine and find it difficult to quit smoking, there is no excuse for the litter that it creates all over our beaches and our urban and rural areas.

Cigarette filters are neither biodegradable nor effectively recyclable. They are made, as I said, primarily from cellulose acetate—a plastic material that does not biodegrade. Even after two years of decomposition, cigarette filters will have lost only about 38% of their mass, and the remaining material continues to persist in the environment. During that time, filters leach harmful substances, including heavy metals and toxic chemicals such as arsenic, that have been inhaled through the filter and into the surrounding environment, further contaminating soil and water sources.

Cigarette butt waste has been shown to impact marine and coastal environments. Studies have demonstrated that cigarette filters affect the micro-biodiversity of coastal sediment and that they pose harm to marine animals that ingest them. That is a growing concern, as the hon. Member for Winchester said, as plastic waste continues to accumulate in the ocean, harming wildlife and disrupting ecosystems. The Ocean Conservancy’s international coastal clean-up has, over the course of 32 years, collected more than 60 million cigarette butts from the ocean. Although that sounds like a lot, that accounts for just 0.00001% of all cigarette filters thrown away in a single year, so this is a difficult thing to clean up.

Despite the growing awareness of the environmental impact of single-use plastics, cigarette filters have not been subject to the same regulations as other plastic products. For example, the European Union banned many forms of single-use plastic in 2019, but cigarette filters were not included, leaving a significant loophole. As cigarette consumption remains widespread, the environmental impact of the filters continues to grow. In October 2024, Santa Cruz county in California became the first jurisdiction in the world to approve a ban on filtered cigarettes and cigars.

One of the questions I have for the hon. Member for Dartford who tabled the new clause—he sadly is not here—is why he has chosen to use the 1990 Act. The previous Conservative Government banned a number of single-use plastics on the basis that they were harmful to the environment, that there were non-plastic, more environmentally friendly and more suitably priced items available, and that it would help to improve the environment, which is a very good thing. However, one of the reasons for introducing those bans through secondary legislation under the 1990 Act was that there was not an opportunity to do so in primary legislation, because of the time constraints of the parliamentary calendar. The Minister has talked about getting time for primary legislation already.

This Bill is a piece of primary legislation, and to add cigarette filters to it only requires the Government to write in clause 1 “and cigarette filters too”, and to make consequential amendments through the Bill on that basis. I agree with the principle that cigarette filters are a bad thing for the environment, and they are not good for people’s health, but I am not entirely sure why the 1990 Act is being used and why the Minister has not included filters in clause 1 and consequentially throughout the Bill. Perhaps he can tell us in winding up.

Tobacco and Vapes Bill (Sixteenth sitting)

Danny Chambers Excerpts

Committee stage
Thursday 30th January 2025 Public Bill Committees

[Andrew Gwynne]

I am almost like a standing article now for LADbible. I am not sure whether that makes me a social media influencer—about which we have heard a lot during the course of the debate—or just a media tart. My hon. Friend is absolutely right that it was not one, two or three but four features we got out of LADbible —and who knows; we might get a fifth.

I sincerely thank the Clerks, the Hansard staff and the Doorkeepers. We do not thank them enough for the work that they do to keep Committees like this going, and I want to place that on the record.

[Dr Danny Chambers (Winchester) (LD)]

As a new Member, and someone who came into politics with a passion for health—specifically public health—and addressing inequality, I am really proud to have been a part of this group. I remember the chief medical officer saying that the Bill will not only have the biggest impact on public health of any legislation in about 20 years, but it will be one of the biggest interventions to help even up inequality, especially in life expectancy. As a new Member, and as part of the Liberal Democrat health team, I am really pleased to be involved in this.

Unfortunately he is not here today, but on several occasions the hon. Member for Farnham and Bordon pontificated on what the flavour of unicorn milk in vapes might be. I never contributed but, as the only vet here, I could have made some assumptions. Assuming that the unicorn’s horn does not influence the flavour of the milk, we can probably extrapolate that it tastes very much like a horse’s milk. As someone who has regularly had to milk a mare to feed a newborn foal, I can tell the Committee that when the mare does not enjoy that, the milk often sprays everywhere—sometimes into one’s mouth. It does not taste terrible, but I would not advise vape manufacturers that it is a good flavour to put into vapes.

[Andrew Gwynne]

I now know more about the equine sector than I ever wanted to. We have got to the accidental squirting of horse milk into one’s mouth, but of course, we started the Committee with a whole tale about getting one’s hoof trimmed—which, I have to say, Mr Pritchard, has a whole other meaning in Manchester.

Women’s Health Strategy

Danny Chambers Excerpts

Thursday 30th January 2025 Commons Chamber

[Madam Deputy Speaker]

I call the Liberal Democrat spokesperson.

[Dr Danny Chambers (Winchester) (LD)]

Nearly 600,000 women are waiting for treatment on gynaecology waiting lists in England; the longest waits are leading to preventable diseases progressing and it is one of the worst specialties for long waits. The Care Quality Commission has investigated and reported that 65% of maternity units are not as safe as they should be. That high number could almost be considered a public health crisis, and it has led to the highest amount of negligent payouts due to avoidable injury and even death. This absolutely needs to be addressed.

Many women, such as my partner Emma, have had to fight for years to get just a diagnosis for endometriosis, let alone any treatment, having been told for years that the symptoms are completely normal and do not need investigating. In the Government’s—

[Madam Deputy Speaker]

Order. I know I am being difficult on time limits, but the Liberal Democrat spokes- person should have one minute in an urgent question, which the hon. Gentleman has already far exceeded. Perhaps he will come up with a question in one sentence for the Minister.

[Dr Chambers]

Apologies, Madam Deputy Speaker. Yes, in one sentence: the Government’s manifesto rightly said that

“Never again will women’s health be neglected”.

Can we have assurances that we will not remove the ICB requirement to have women’s health hubs?

[Karin Smyth]

The hon. Gentleman is right to highlight those long waits. That is why we particularly highlighted gynaecology for attention in the elective reform plan. It is shocking that the last Government left 600,000 women on these lists, and moving back to making sure people wait no longer than 18 weeks will predominantly be helping those women.

The hon. Gentleman is also right to highlight the appalling maternity situation. The Secretary of State and my noble Friend Baroness Merron, who leads in this area, have met many families to discuss their experiences, and we know those experiences are unacceptable. We know there are big issues around staffing, and it is a priority to work with NHS England to make sure that we grow workforce capacity as quickly as possible so that we can be sure that those situations are safe. There are many debates in this place about the issue and we will continue to update the House.

Tobacco and Vapes Bill (Thirteenth sitting)

Danny Chambers Excerpts

Committee stage
Tuesday 28th January 2025 Public Bill Committees

[Andrew Gwynne]

We want to ensure that people who are smokers are not criminalised. Public space protection orders do potentially go down the criminal route. We want to ensure that that is not the case, which is why the Enfield scheme would of course be obsolete under the later provisions—which we are going to discuss today, hopefully—in relation to extending national outdoor smoke-free places.

[Dr Danny Chambers (Winchester) (LD)]

It is reassuring to hear the Minister talk about consulting before bringing in smoke-free places in specific public outdoor areas. Personally, as a non-smoker and someone who is very concerned about the public health impacts of passive smoking, I think we must also be mindful of the need for evidence-based interventions, and of the trade-offs. A good example is that of some fantastic pubs around Winchester and the Meon valley that have maybe two beer gardens, one to the side and one to the back. There would genuinely be no public health risk if smoking was permitted in one of the beer gardens and not the other.

The Liberal Democrats want reassurance on that. One of the reasons we tabled our amendment to clause 136, which is coming up, is simply to get assurances that the hospitality sector will not be impacted by any of these decisions, especially if the public health benefits are negligible.

[The Chair]

Order. We will discuss the specifics of the hon. Gentleman’s amendment when he moves it.

--- Later in debate ---

[The Chair]

No. Okay. That is fantastic. No problem. [Interruption.] I mean it is fantastic and we can hear you on another clause or amendment, just to be clear.

Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.

[Dr Chambers]

I beg to move amendment 4, in clause 136, page 77, line 8, leave out from “smoke-free” to the end of line 15 and insert—

“a place in England that is—

(a) an NHS property or hospital building,

(b) a school, college or higher education premises,

(c) a children’s play area or playground,

including outdoor public areas and frontages adjoining or surrounding such premises or designated areas.”.

This amendment would specify which places the Secretary of State has power to designate as additional smoke-free places in England on the face of the Bill.

[The Chair]

With this it will be convenient to discuss the following:

Amendment 95, in clause 136, page 77, line 12 at end insert—

“The Secretary of State may only make regulations designating external or open spaces as smoke-free in England outside—

(a) an NHS property or hospital building,

(b) a children’s playground, or

(c) a nursery, school, college or higher education premises.”.

This amendment restricts the Secretary of State to only being able to designate open or unenclosed spaces outside a hospital, children’s playground, school or nursery.

Amendment 94, in clause 136, page 77, line 21, at end insert—

“The Secretary of State may designate a place or description of place under this section only if in the Secretary of State's opinion there is a significant risk that, without a designation, persons present there would be exposed to significant quantities of smoke.”.

This amendment would re-instate existing section 4(3) in the Health Act 2006.

[Dr Chambers]

It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Mr Pritchard. To reiterate what I said before, the Liberal Democrats’ aim is to avoid unintended consequences that really damage the hospitality industry that we totally support. Amendment 4 would limit the places where we ban smoking or designate smoke-free to an NHS property or hospital building, a school, college or higher education premises, and a children’s playground or play area. We are not against public health measures; we are trying to ensure that we do not end up with provisions that are a bit over the top and damage hospitality businesses.

--- Later in debate ---

[Andrew Gwynne]

The point is that that is open to interpretation; that now runs counter to our ambition to have a smoke-free United Kingdom. We have put in place a much more flexible and workable measure. The measure from 2006 was right for 2006, but it is not right for 2027, when we hope to introduce the Bill. That is why we are looking to the measures in the Bill rather than the measures as they stood in 2006.

Lastly, I remind the shadow Minister that her amendments apply only to the clause in the Bill that relates to England. If we agreed to them, the powers in England would not be consistent with the powers in the rest of the devolved jurisdictions across the United Kingdom. This is a UK-wide Bill that provides a consistent legislative framework for the whole of the United Kingdom—all four nations—while allowing devolved nations to go further on subsequent regulations if they so wish. For these reasons, I ask hon. Members to withdraw their amendments.

[Dr Chambers]

I think that the official Opposition’s amendment is better, so I beg to ask leave to withdraw the amendment.

Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.

Amendment proposed: 95, in clause 136, page 77, line 12, at end insert—

“The Secretary of State may only make regulations designating external or open spaces as smoke-free in England outside—

(a) an NHS property or hospital building,

(b) a children’s playground, or

(c) a nursery, school, college or higher education premises.”.—(Dr Johnson.)

This amendment restricts the Secretary of State to only being able to designate open or unenclosed spaces outside a hospital, children’s playground, school or nursery.

Question put, That the amendment be made.

Tobacco and Vapes Bill (Fourteenth sitting)

Danny Chambers Excerpts

Committee stage
Tuesday 28th January 2025 Public Bill Committees

[Jack Rankin]

As my hon. Friend knows, I am not a doctor as she is, but I will repeat that Cancer Research UK said that there is

“no good evidence that second-hand e-cigarette vapour is harmful”.

and Public Health England made a similar comment. I understand the point that the hon. Member for Worthing West has made a few times about the precautionary principle, but we could take that to any excess.

[Dr Danny Chambers (Winchester) (LD)]

It is important to remember that the absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. Someone said to me a while ago that having a smoking section in a restaurant is a bit like having a peeing section in a swimming pool.

[Jack Rankin]

I am not sure there is a question there, but the hon. Member has put a smile on my face.

My final point is about the visibility of vaping, because I think the Minister should consider the wisdom of this clause by his own logic. Public Health England guidance says:

“while smokefree law protects people from the harm of secondhand smoke, forcing smokers outdoors has increased public visibility of smoking, including to children and young people. Having a more enabling approach to vaping can mitigate this and help make smoking less of a social norm”.

Ensuring a differentiation between where people can vape or smoke might assist in encouraging smokers to switch to vaping, which would undoubtedly have a net positive public health benefit. In addition, allowing people to continue vaping indoors in places such as pubs, bars and nightclubs, which are age-gated anyway, would reduce the visibility of vaping in public and keep it away from people who are under age. When it comes to protecting people who are under age from picking up vaping in the first place, I wholeheartedly agree with the Government and the shadow Minister.

Those are the five points I wanted to make. First, are we sure that we want to push vapers to vape in the same place as smokers when they might be trying to give up smoking? Secondly, do we really want to conflate vapes with cigarettes, which might undermine the Government’s goal to help smokers to switch? Thirdly, will the Minister commit to consulting on any expansion of vape-free spaces, as he has for tobacco? Fourthly, the evidence is weak that second-hand vaping is a problem, but that is effectively the rationale for smoke-free places. Fifthly, is the Minister not concerned that he could be inadvertently putting vapes on show, particularly to young people, by forcing people out of age-controlled spaces such as pubs?