Prisoners of Conscience

Desmond Swayne Excerpts

Thursday 1st May 2025 Commons Chamber

[Sir Desmond Swayne (New Forest West) (Con)]

It is an enormous privilege to follow the hon. Member for Strangford (Jim Shannon), who is a tremendous advocate for the voiceless. May I begin by reiterating the importance of the questions that he has raised and by asking the Minister to address in her winding up the question of what action has followed the telephone call between the Prime Minister and President al-Sisi on the question of pursuing the release of Alaa Abd el-Fattah? Is there any plan for securing the release of Jimmy Lai?

We have had many prisoners of conscience of our own. At random, off the top of my head, I could name Thomas More, Dr Barnes, Latimer and Ridley, Cranmer, Archbishop Laud, and even John Bunyan in Bedford jail. A free Parliament that had the will to do so could have campaigned for their release, and history might have been significantly different. The problem for us now is that the prisoners of conscience are well beyond our jurisdiction, so when we raise cases with Ministers, often enough we have no leverage whatsoever with the jurisdictions that have imprisoned them. We can no longer simply deploy the Royal Navy, as we might have done in the past, and as indeed we did when we deployed it to eradicate the scandal of the international slave trade.

Even in those jurisdictions where we do have alliances, shared national interests and good diplomatic relations, often enough Governments have bigger fish to fry with respect to regional security and stability, and international trade, so when we raise cases with Ministers, we are told, “These were raised at the highest level”—indeed, when I was a Minister, I raised them at the highest level —but not much action follows.

Are we wasting our breath? Are we wasting the House’s time? This is not a counsel of despair. It is essential that we continue to do as the hon. Member for Strangford has done: to persevere. We have to try—we have to try to lift the odd starfish, as he says. At the very least, we will have sent a powerful message to those prisoners, their relatives and their friends that they are not forgotten, that we do campaign for them and, indeed, that we pray for them.

We are reminded in chapter 12 of the Acts of the Apostles that St Peter, guarded by four squads and chained between two soldiers, is sprung by an angel. In chapter 16, Paul and Silas are sprung in an earthquake and end up evangelising the prison governor. Until those miraculous days return, however, we are confined to continuing to raise matters with Ministers.

Accordingly, I raise the case of Ali Minaei, a young man in Iran who has been in prison for the last year. He was sentenced for having attended a church service in somebody’s home. He also has a severe heart condition. He is denied medical treatment in prison, and has been subject to beatings, including blows to his chest. It is not untypical for Christians in Iran to be sentenced for crimes against state security, to be given long sentences, to have prolonged interrogation, sexual harassment, and beatings, or to be denied privileges that other prisoners have access to.

I see young Ali as an architype for all those prisoners of conscience that my hon. Friend the Member for Strangford mentioned, be they imprisoned for advocating for human rights, for their insistence on freedom of expression, or because of their adherence to a minority faith, and whether they be imprisoned in Xinjiang, Hong Kong, North Korea, Afghanistan, Turkey, Egypt, Venezuela or wheresoever.

I share a belief with my hon. Friend that there will be a day of liberation, when the prisoners will be freed. But that day of rapture will also be a day of wrath and judgment for their oppressors. We ought all to shrink from that judgment, because we share in the guilt of their tormentors through our inaction and by our silence.

[Madam Deputy Speaker (Caroline Nokes)]

I call the Liberal Democrat spokesperson.

Palestinian Authority Prime Minister Visit

Desmond Swayne Excerpts

Tuesday 29th April 2025 Commons Chamber

[Mr Falconer]

It was a sign of the Palestinian Authority’s commitment to some of these practical questions of service delivery that their Health Minister travelled with the Prime Minister for discussions. The MOU provides a framework through which we can have that reform discussion, including strategic dialogues on a whole range of questions such as the important education questions that the right hon. Member for Witham (Priti Patel) raised earlier.

[Sir Desmond Swayne (New Forest West) (Con)]

For how long does the Minister think he will be able to recognise a Palestinian state that retains sufficient economically viable land to actually be a goer?

[Mr Falconer]

The right hon. Gentleman raises an important question about the economic viability of the Occupied Palestinian Territories and what any future state of Palestine would rely on for its economy. There clearly are very important questions to be considered about energy, water and the areas themselves. Clearly, many of these issues have been considered as final-status determination issues envisaged for the end of a two-state solution conference. We are doing everything we can to try and support the most practical measures possible to enable the Palestinians to live the most dignified lives that they can.

Ukraine War: London Talks

Desmond Swayne Excerpts

Thursday 24th April 2025 Commons Chamber

[Stephen Doughty]

Again, I condemn the sanction against my hon. Friend. He asks what we are doing to keep our citizens and all our allies safe, and to keep our shared security in place. Again, I am pleased to be joined by the Minister for the Armed Forces. This Government have stepped up resources for defence and security and UK support to Ukraine. We are increasing defence spending to 2.5% of GDP by 2027, and have an ambition to reach 3%, and the UK is committed to providing Ukraine with £3 billion in military assistance this year and every year for as long as it takes. I mentioned the ERA loan, and we also have export finance support, £1.6 billion of which is going on supplying Ukraine with more than 5,000 air defence missiles. That is utterly crucial and makes a tangible difference, not least in the face of the barbaric attacks that we saw overnight.

[Sir Desmond Swayne (New Forest West) (Con)]

I welcome fresh members to the list of those of us who have been sanctioned. Why is President Trump treating Ukraine as the aggressor? Will the Minister remind US negotiators that—together with the United Kingdom—the USA signed the Budapest memorandum, assuring Ukraine of its territorial integrity and independence, when that country sacrificed unilaterally its position as the world’s third largest nuclear-armed power?

[Stephen Doughty]

I welcome the right hon. Gentleman’s support on Ukraine, but again, I do not share his characterisation of the United States’ position. We share President Trump’s desire to bring this barbaric war to an end, and we are working closely with the US and other international partners to secure a just and lasting peace. As I have said, it is very clear to us that President Zelensky and Ukraine are demonstrating and have demonstrated a clear commitment to peace, including through their participation yesterday alongside the US and our European partners. We know who the real obstacle to peace is: Vladimir Putin.

London Sudan Conference

Desmond Swayne Excerpts

Thursday 24th April 2025 Commons Chamber

[Mr Falconer]

The UK condemns the growing body of evidence of serious atrocities being committed against civilians in Sudan. The escalation of violence, killing of civilians, sexual assault of women and restriction of humanitarian access must end. That is why in January the Foreign Secretary visited the Sudan-Chad border and raised awareness of the conflict. It is why we hosted the conference last week and are in regular touch with both the parties themselves and all those with influence, including regional players, the United Nations and major donors. We are trying to do everything we can to ensure that humanitarian access is properly restored.

[Sir Desmond Swayne (New Forest West) (Con)]

Might it be expedient if we use our intelligence resources to expose and shame those who are fuelling the conflict through arming the antagonists?

[Mr Falconer]

We are clear that there should be no external interference in Sudan and that a continuation of this conflict serves no one. It is why we took the efforts last week that we did, and we held the conference in closed-door sessions in order to allow the frankest possible exchange of views on the way ahead.

Persecution of Christians

Desmond Swayne Excerpts

Tuesday 8th April 2025 Westminster Hall

[Sir Desmond Swayne (New Forest West) (Con)]

Nigeria is No. 7 on the world watchlist published by Open Doors. Some of the most egregious examples of persecution, with whole communities being laid waste, come from Plateau state. Many commentators, including the EU Parliament, have put that down to the pressures brought about by climate change. Well, climate change does not rape people. Climate change does not bomb church services. Climate change does not abduct women and children and force them into marriage. Those things are done because of an extremist ideology entirely unrestrained by proper state power, because of the state’s incompetence, indifference or even complicity.

What assistance is the United Kingdom affording to Nigeria in the implementation of the Human Rights Council’s recommendation, from its universal periodic review, on the protection of freedom of religion and belief? Has the Minister shared the experience that I had as a Minister of visiting some of the countries where these things take place and having his ear bent by members of both the Opposition and the Government on what we should do about it, as if we were still a colonial power able to do such things? What leverage do the Government actually have, beyond the important role of providing a platform to share views and reassure sufferers that we are alive to their concerns—that we are praying for them, at least?

Finally, I have a word of caution for the hon. Member for Edinburgh South West (Dr Arthur), who spoke about official development assistance. Properly spent, it is directed to projects that relieve suffering communities. If it is used as a political weapon—as leverage that is put on Governments and withdrawn—it only makes the sufferers suffer even more.

Israel: Refusal of Entry for UK Parliamentarians

Desmond Swayne Excerpts

Monday 7th April 2025 Commons Chamber

[Mr Falconer]

I agree with how my hon. Friend described my hon. Friends the Members for Earley and Woodley and for Sheffield Central. They are my friends too. They were a bureau chief for the Financial Times and a lawyer before coming to this place. They are distinguished members of their communities and distinguished Members of this House.

[Sir Desmond Swayne (New Forest West) (Con)]

Israel has forgone the opportunity to engage with two of its trenchant critics. Is this not a case of more fool it?

[Mr Falconer]

I agree.

Gaza: Israeli Military Operations

Desmond Swayne Excerpts

Wednesday 2nd April 2025 Commons Chamber

[Mr Falconer]

Those are important questions. The UK considers settlements illegal under international law. We are clear that settlement goods must be properly labelled and they do not benefit from the trading regimes that would otherwise apply to both Israel and the Occupied Palestinian Territories. My hon. Friend’s question is the right one. We need to ensure that there remains a viable path to a two-state solution. There is no other path to peace in the region, and all our efforts are focused on that outcome.

[Sir Desmond Swayne (New Forest West) (Con)]

When I was the Minister responsible, the current Minister was then an outstanding official in the Department. He will therefore know that when I presented an egregious list of complaints to the Deputy Prime Minister of Israel, as well as to the chief negotiator, he simply stormed out of the meeting, leaving the ambassador with his head in his hands. I therefore ask: what leverage do we actually have?

[Mr Falconer]

The right hon. Gentleman is kind about my service. I know that he raised some of the issues with some force, as he says, during his time in this ministerial role. That underlines the hard truth here, which is that the Israelis must be persuaded to relent from a course of action that both the Conservative and Labour parties, as well as the other parties in this Chamber, have seen is totally undermining the long-term stability of the region, which is important not just for Israel and for Palestine, but for the UK and our friends and allies in the middle east.

Conflict in Gaza

Desmond Swayne Excerpts

Thursday 20th March 2025 Commons Chamber

[Mr Lammy]

Reports have come in that Hamas have now started firing rockets into Israel and sirens are at this time sounding in Tel Aviv. I condemn Hamas’s rocket attacks. I want to reiterate that the only way through this is to get back to a ceasefire. It is unacceptable that Israeli civilians are running for cover and that Palestinian civilians are finding that the casualties are rising. There can be no place for Hamas in the future of Gaza, which is why we are doing everything to help the reform of the Palestinian Authority; we believe that they must play a role in Gaza’s governance in the months and years ahead.

[Sir Desmond Swayne (New Forest West) (Con)]

Despite a huge investment in our relationship with Israel over so many years, we appear to be reduced to the position of spectators on a touchline, shouting at the players and being largely ignored. To what extent does the Secretary of State believe that our lack of leverage—if any—is a consequence of policy decisions taken in Washington?

[Mr Lammy]

I think it is clear that the efforts of US envoy Steve Witkoff and President Trump brought us to a place where we had a ceasefire. Sometimes it can feel futile; diplomacy can feel very hard. The words of parliamentarians can feel like they have no effect, but everything that every single one of us as Members of Parliament did in those 17 months also led to that ceasefire in January. We wish that we could have brought it about sooner, and now we must act to get back to that ceasefire as quickly as possible.

Ukraine

Desmond Swayne Excerpts

Monday 24th February 2025 Commons Chamber

[Mr Lammy]

Yes, yes, yes, I say to my hon. Friend. I think all of us pay tribute to our armed forces and to his work in our armed forces. It is because of that work over so many years—that sacrifice—that I think the spirit of this country guides us to stand solidly with Ukraine on a cross-party basis. He is right to pray in aid those words that underpin our values, and indeed global values as underpinned in the UN charter. That is what we are fighting for and we will not give up.

[Sir Desmond Swayne (New Forest West) (Con)]

Does the Secretary of State regret recanting the views he originally expressed in assessing Trump? When the time is right—it is certainly not any time now—can I urge him to consider following the example of Archbishop Cranmer by plunging the offending hand first into the flame?

[Mr Lammy]

Er—[Laughter.] This is a serious debate and a serious discussion. As I have said, that is, in a sense, old news; there is so much news before us, and so much history to be forged, which requires diplomacy and friendship and us understanding who the real threats are. Those real threats are the autocracies of the world, which could do tremendous damage over the coming years. I have always recognised that.

Chagos Islands

Desmond Swayne Excerpts

Wednesday 5th February 2025 Commons Chamber

[Stephen Doughty]

My hon. Friend is absolutely right about protecting against malign interests. That is exactly at the heart of the deal. He is also exactly right about the history of why the deal was needed. That was, of course, recognised by the previous Government, which was why they started the negotiations. We wanted to put the base on a secure footing well into the next century, which is what I assume they were trying to do previously and spent 11 rounds negotiating. We have come to a deal that is in our national interest. Most crucially, it is our national security and that of our allies that is at the heart of it. There are multiple safeguards in place in the treaty. They will protect our national security and that of our allies.

[Sir Desmond Swayne (New Forest West) (Con)]

Given that what the Minister has told the House today is so at variance with the report from the Prime Minister of Mauritius, surely it rings alarm bells in his mind about the nature of the polity and the individuals with whom he is negotiating—and has he entirely lost his moral compass? The Government are considering taxing death-in-service benefits of our servicemen while at the same time contemplating spending £18 billion on saving a base that we already own.

[Stephen Doughty]

I am not going to reflect on the appalling record of the right hon. Gentleman’s Government on defence and our service people. We are getting around to rebuilding our relationship with our armed forces and rebuilding our defences, in view of the global threats that we face.

The right hon. Gentleman asked about the Mauritian Prime Minister, who is, of course, responsible for his own words. I certainly do not recognise some of the commentary that there has been over the last 48 hours. It is clear that there has been no change in the substance of the deal or in the overall quantum agreed.