EU Law Services
James Cleverly Excerpts(4 years, 10 months ago)
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The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Exiting the European Union (James Cleverly)
Today, I wish to inform the House about the release of two new services by The National Archives, operating in the capacity of the Queen’s Printer, which will help aid legal certainty and support research in preparation for EU exit.
Yesterday, I signed regulations for the commencement of the relevant powers and duties under part 1 of schedule 5 to the European Union (Withdrawal) Act 2018, which placed on the Queen’s Printer the statutory obligation to make arrangements for the publication of EU legislation relevant to the UK after exit.
At 9:00 today, The National Archives released two new services. First there is a new online collection of documents and data, relevant to the UK, drawn from the EUR-Lex website: the official source of EU law, delivered as part of the Government’s official web archive. This is available for the public to search and will be updated until exit day, when it will be frozen and act as a permanent historical record of the relevant EU documents on our exit from the EU.
Secondly, The National Archives has added relevant EU legislation to www.legislation.gov.uk. the official legislation website, in order to allow the public to locate the law as it applies to them postexit. This brings together EU legislation that will be retained in UK law on exit with details about the corrections made by UK statutory instruments for EU exit and will show the ‘as amended’ UK applicable versions of the texts. This service includes a full timeline of changes pre-exit and will incorporate the amendments made by UK legislation postexit, with annotations so users can verify the text of the legislation for themselves, if they wish.
The Government have commenced these powers and duties now because these services are ready and their availability will be useful to those, such as businesses and the legal sector, who need to understand what the law is and will be on exit.
[HCWS1686]
Oral Answers to Questions
James Cleverly Excerpts(4 years, 10 months ago)
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Marion Fellows (Motherwell and Wishaw) (SNP)
The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Exiting the European Union (James Cleverly)
As a responsible Government, we have been preparing to minimise any disruption in the event of no deal for more than two years. In the light of the extension, Departments are making sensible decisions about the timing and pace at which some of that work is progressing and what further action can be taken, but we will continue to prepare for an EU exit in all scenarios.
Marion Fellows
The Chartered Institute of Environmental Health has called on local authorities across the whole United Kingdom to set up food resilience teams to assess how different Brexit outcomes could affect food supplies. What reassurances can the Minister and the Secretary of State give that food supplies will not be impacted in the event of no deal?
James Cleverly
Only yesterday, I had a bilateral meeting with my counterpart Minister in the Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs, and we discussed the advanced plans that that Department has made in this area. I have also had meetings with the Food and Drink Federation, which represents sectors in the industry, and the British Retail Consortium. The Government are making significant plans to ensure that key supplies, including food, are available in the event of a no-deal Brexit.
Mr Speaker
The hon. Gentleman is a very busy fella, with a full diary. We are all greatly impressed.
Jeremy Lefroy (Stafford) (Con)
One of the major risks of leaving without a deal, which I very much hope will not happen, is cash-flow problems, particularly for small and medium-sized businesses. I had understood that the Treasury and the whole Government were making plans to ensure that additional cash flow would be made available, particularly for SMEs, for delays in payments, customs dues and so on. But at the Exiting the European Union Committee yesterday, we heard from all witnesses that they were not aware of any such plans for their members. Can the Minister set out clearly what those plans are and when they will be made known?
James Cleverly
The Government absolutely remain committed to ensuring that businesses, whether they are large, small or medium-sized, thrive in any Brexit-related scenario. The Governor of the Bank of England has said that we are well prepared. I will ensure that more details are circulated about what mitigating measures the UK Government will put in place for small and medium-sized businesses.
Matthew Pennycook (Greenwich and Woolwich) (Lab)
In the finest traditions of this Government, the Brexit Secretary used an interview in The Times today to publicly air his frustrations with colleagues from the Treasury and the Department for Business, Energy and Industrial Strategy at their unwillingness to waste yet more public money on ramping up preparations for a no-deal Brexit. In the same spirit of openness, can the Minister tell the House precisely how much additional funding his Department believes should be allocated to no-deal planning before 31 October and what it should be spent on?
James Cleverly
The Treasury has made available over £4 billion for preparations for Brexit in all scenarios. As has been discussed at the Dispatch Box before, it is not possible to disaggregate the spending between planning for a deal and planning for no deal. If the hon. Gentleman or anyone else in the Chamber is concerned about the implications of a no-deal Brexit, I remind them that they have had a number of opportunities to take the prospect of a no-deal Brexit off the table, which is what they say they wish to do, by voting for a deal. The fact that he has failed to do so means that the Government have had to take sensible, pragmatic actions to ensure that we are ready to leave in the event of no deal, but it is not too late for him to repent.
Peter Grant (Glenrothes) (SNP)
Given that the Brexit Secretary who negotiated the last deal was so disgusted with it that he resigned in protest, I think it is a bit much to blame anyone on this side of the House for not supporting it.
As the Minister will know only too well, we are still waiting to see the results of the coronation of the next Prime Minister—a Prime Minister who will be chosen on the votes of less than one quarter of 1% of the people of these islands. The lead contender—in fact, both contenders have made it clear they are prepared to go for a no-deal Brexit. Will the Minister accept that there is no mandate for a no-deal Brexit in this Parliament, and that there has never been a mandate for a no-deal Brexit from the people of the United Kingdom?
James Cleverly
In the 2016 referendum, the mandate was given to this place from the British people to leave the European Union.
Peter Grant
The Minister was asked what assurances he could give about food supplies in the event of a no-deal Brexit, and he gave none. He was asked what mandate exists publicly for a no-deal Brexit, and his answer made it perfectly clear there is none. The man who is about to be imposed on us as Prime Minister promised he would get a deal that would not be a no-deal Brexit, and if the new Prime Minister’s promises are worth nothing, whose are?
May I take the Minister back to the desire expressed a few minutes ago by his boss, who wants this House to listen to more than just the voices of London? “Yeah, tell us about it” is all I can say to that. May I suggest that he listens to one of the equal partners in this Union, where the Scottish National party is the stop Brexit party? The only time no-deal Brexit has been specifically put on the ballot paper in the form of the official Brexit party, the Scottish National party—on a promise to be the stop Brexit party—got more votes than not only the official no-deal Brexit party, but the unofficial no-deal Conservative party and the “don’t know what they’re doing about Brexit” Labour party, all three added together. Does he not accept that the people of Scotland, who his Government accept are sovereign, have overwhelmingly rejected any promise of a no-deal Brexit, as indeed would the majority of the people of these islands if they were given a choice? Why does he not make sure that no deal is taken off the table once and for all?
James Cleverly
I happen to be one of the people in this Chamber who is in the habit of respecting the outcome of referendums. I am conscious that the hon. Gentleman is a representative of a party that is less comfortable with respecting the outcome of referendums. The simple truth of the matter is that the people of Scotland decided to remain an active part of the United Kingdom and the United Kingdom collectively decided to leave the European Union, and we are delivering on that referendum.
Luke Pollard (Plymouth, Sutton and Devonport) (Lab/Co-op)
The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Exiting the European Union (James Cleverly)
The Government’s priority remains to ensure that a deal is brought before and agreed by Parliament, allowing the UK to leave the EU before 31 October. In the run-up to 12 April, various Departments were preparing civil contingency plans, which were regularly discussed with colleagues, with co-ordination from the Cabinet Office.
Luke Pollard
Devon and Cornwall’s deputy chief constable, Paul Netherton, is the national lead for civil contingencies. When asked by Plymouth Live, “What’s the worst case scenario for Brexit?”, he replied, without a moment’s hesitation, “No deal”. What conversations is the Department having with the Tory leadership contenders so that both of them truly understand the gut-wrenching and dangerous implications of leaving without a deal on 31 October?
James Cleverly
The position that the Government have taken mirrors, without necessarily using the same language, the prioritisation of the hon. Gentleman’s deputy chief constable. It is that of the two Brexit scenarios available—leaving with an agreement, or leaving without an agreement—the Government’s preferred option of the two is leaving with an agreement. That still can be done if Opposition Members vote to do so. As a sensible and pragmatic Government, we are making sure we prepare for a no-deal Brexit, but we have said a number of times from the Government Front Bench that our preferred Brexit option is to leave with an agreement and for this House to vote to do so.
Mr Philip Hollobone (Kettering) (Con)
Across the Government, but especially in the Treasury and the Department for Business, Energy and Industrial Strategy, there is a big drive to improve the nation’s productivity. In the run-up to a potential no deal on 31 October, are there not projects that would improve the nation’s productivity, but also enhance our nation’s resilience to a no deal, especially with regard to transport infrastructure around ports, and better prepare us for a no-deal situation?
James Cleverly
My hon. Friend makes a very good point. The Government are looking at and planning a number of activities that will benefit the United Kingdom, irrespective of the nature of our departure. As we progress those plans, I am more than happy to share them with him.
Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)
What recent discussions has the Minister had with the Irish Government regarding co-operation and security on the Irish border were we to leave the EU on WTO terms? Will he reassure the House that there will be no stop to the freedom of movement of people and goods across the Irish border?
James Cleverly
The Government have regular meetings with international partners. Indeed, my colleague, Mr Walker—[Interruption.] I apologise, Mr Speaker, I mean my hon. Friend the Member for Worcester (Mr Walker). He will be joining others at the British-Irish Council to discuss those issues, and ensure that the concerns highlighted by the hon. Gentleman are addressed.
Carol Monaghan (Glasgow North West) (SNP)
Graham Stringer (Blackley and Broughton) (Lab)
The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Exiting the European Union (James Cleverly)
The Government and the European Commission have been clear that our trading relationship must comply with WTO rules. Under the withdrawal agreement, the implementation period is compatible with GATT article 24. In addition, paragraph 17 of the political declaration envisages the UK and the EU forming a free trade area, which will also be compatible with article 24.
Graham Stringer
On an all-party visit to the World Trade Organisation, it was made clear that if there was the prospect of a negotiated free trade agreement in the future, tariff-free trade could continue. Does the Minister agree that if the EU does not agree to that negotiated free trade in the future, which would allow tariff-free trade on leaving, that will be because it wants to punish the UK, not come to the best agreement in the interests of its people?
James Cleverly
I am not in a position to credibly assess the motivations of the European Union. The British Government’s position has been clear—it is a long-standing position—that it is in our mutual interest to come to a trading relationship between the UK and the EU. We will continue to seek to do so.
Anna Turley (Redcar) (Lab/Co-op)
Mr Adrian Bailey (West Bromwich West) (Lab/Co-op)
The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Exiting the European Union (James Cleverly)
Our highest priority is for patients to continue to have access to the medicines and medical products that they need. Since the extension of article 50, close engagement with the pharmaceutical industry has continued and we are confident that we will have the necessary plans in place to ensure continuity of medical supply.
Mr Bailey
A no-deal Brexit would see the UK lose access to the falsified medicines directive, which prevents substandard and counterfeit medicines from entering our market. The head of the Healthcare Distribution Association has said that, as a result, the UK would be “less safe”. What steps has the Minister taken to prevent that?
James Cleverly
The hon. Gentleman will be unsurprised to hear that I have had recent meetings with the Association of the British Pharmaceutical Industry. We have discussed the quantity and nature of cross-border movements of medical supplies and pharmaceuticals. The British Government take this as one of our top priorities, protecting the supply in general and ensuring the quality as well as the quantity of medical supplies, and we will continue to do so.
Bob Blackman (Harrow East) (Con)
Eddie Hughes (Walsall North) (Con)
The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Exiting the European Union (James Cleverly)
My hon. Friend asks me to detail what actions have been taken; those actions are so numerous that I would not want to list them all, because I am sure you want to have time to go on to other things this morning, Mr Speaker. But I have already highlighted a number of meetings that I and ministerial colleagues have had with representatives of industry, helping them to understand what actions the Government have already taken and what actions they and their members can take for a no-deal Brexit. We have also had international meetings on both a bilateral and multilateral basis. Discussions among officials and Ministers and at Cabinet level happen regularly to ensure that the UK Government and UK businesses are in a good place to leave under no deal if needs be.
Thangam Debbonaire (Bristol West) (Lab)
Leaving the EU: Extension Period Negotiations
James Cleverly Excerpts(4 years, 11 months ago)
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Westminster Hall is an alternative Chamber for MPs to hold debates, named after the adjoining Westminster Hall.
Each debate is chaired by an MP from the Panel of Chairs, rather than the Speaker or Deputy Speaker. A Government Minister will give the final speech, and no votes may be called on the debate topic.
This information is provided by Parallel Parliament and does not comprise part of the offical record
The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Exiting the European Union (James Cleverly)
It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Mr Robertson. I thank my hon. Friend the Member for Hornchurch and Upminster (Julia Lopez) for securing this very important debate at such an interesting point on the road to delivering Brexit. She raised a number of interesting and important issues. I will attempt to address them in the limited time that we have, but I also want to give her time to respond to the debate that she initiated.
I remind hon. Members that the Government, much like the majority of MPs, want to deliver on the result of the referendum and leave the European Union promptly and in good order. The British public are justifiably frustrated—that is an understatement—and the tone and passion of this debate is reflective of the public mood. They want us to act together in the national interest, end this impasse and deliver Brexit. Delivering Brexit was never going to be simple or straightforward, but the Government firmly believe that the best way to leave the European Union is with a good deal.
At the most recent European Council, the UK and the EU agreed an extension to article 50 until 31 October. It was also agreed that if we successfully brought forward a withdrawal agreement, we would be able to leave earlier. That is why the Prime Minister put forward a range of options hopefully to build a consensus that can secure a vote for the withdrawal agreement so the UK can leave the EU promptly.
The Prime Minister has worked hard to find a way forward that accommodates concerns from across the political spectrum, and yesterday she presented a new deal to MPs to settle the core issues of the debate. MPs must now work together to deliver the result of the 2016 referendum.
A number of hon. Members cited the Prime Minister’s words,
“No deal is better than a bad deal.”
The Government’s position is that the deal that has been negotiated over the past few years is a good deal, but hon. Members have criticised it. If you will forgive me, Mr Robertson, I will dwell briefly on why it is viewed as a good deal. It protects citizens’ rights for UK nationals living in the EU and EU nationals living here. It delivers an implementation period until 2020 to allow businesses to adjust to the new situation. It ensures a fair financial settlement of less than half of what was initially expected and demanded, which reinforces our global reputation as an honourable and honest international player. It ensures that Gibraltar is covered by the withdrawal agreement. It guarantees that geographical indications such as Scotch whisky and Welsh lamb will be protected until a future economic partnership is put in place. It allows the UK to negotiate, sign and ratify new trade deals during the implementation period, to be brought into force once it ends.
Alongside that, the accompanying political declaration sets out the scope for a bold and ambitious future trade relationship between the UK and the EU, to be built on for the next stage of negotiations. Hon. Members reminded us that there was a commitment to take back control of money, borders and laws. The agreement allows the Government to introduce a new fair skills-based immigration system, taking back control of our borders and ending free movement. It ends the jurisdiction of the European Court of Justice UK and means that our laws will be made in Parliament and enforced by our courts. It also protects security and sets out a close relationship on defence and tackling crime and terrorism. It ensures that we will leave the common agricultural policy and the common fisheries policy, delivering a good deal for farmers and fishermen up and down the UK.
I will address some of the points that my hon. Friend the Member for Hornchurch and Upminster made. She asked about border preparation work. My officials and I have regular meetings to ensure that the UK border is operational and in good order, and that trade flows can continue with the minimum amount of friction in the event of a no-deal Brexit, with a cross-Government borders programme. All Departments will be able to set up fully and partially operated systems, processes and resources to ensure disruption is minimised as far as possible.
My hon. Friend asked about labour market preparations. We are in the enviable position of having incredibly low levels of unemployment. The Government will ensure that any changes in the labour market are reflected in Government policy.
My hon. Friend asked about the use of Henry VIII powers. The use of statutory instruments came after a decision by Parliament during the passage of the European Union (Withdrawal) Act 2018. Every SI using those powers is scrutinised by Parliament in the usual way, and there is a new sifting mechanism.
Unfortunately, I will not be able to answer all the questions I was asked, because I want to address the broader point about no-deal preparations. Although Parliament has rejected the UK leaving the EU without a deal multiple times, that remains the legal default position if a deal is not agreed. As a responsible Government, we have been preparing for more than two years to mitigate any negative effects and any disruption as far as possible in the event of no deal. Those preparations are well developed and ongoing. We continue to prepare for all Brexit scenarios. Some £4.2 billion of funding has been allocated to help the UK prepare for all eventualities. It is only sensible that we do that.
Although the Government’s preparations continue, many of the most important mitigations require businesses and citizens, not just the Government, to act. There are also consequences that are simply not within the Government’s direct control, such as the actions of third countries. We should be under absolutely no illusion that not leaving the European Union would have a significant negative social, political and economic impact. That is another reason why leaving with a deal is the best option.
People want politicians to act together and honour the result of the 2016 referendum so we leave the European Union in good time and good order. The hon. Member for Darlington (Jenny Chapman) highlighted the fact that Labour is uncomfortable with elements of the deal. The only way it could have influence on the future deal is to vote on Second Reading for the withdrawal agreement Bill. I therefore encourage all hon. Members to do what the people of Britain demanded of us, ensure we leave the European Union in the national interest, and back the deal.
Exiting the European Union
James Cleverly Excerpts(4 years, 11 months ago)
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Mr McFadden
James Cleverly
Additional EU exit funding allocated by Her Majesty’s Treasury to Departments and devolved Administrations covers all scenarios. No-deal spending cannot readily be separated from deal spending, given the significant overlap in plans in many cases. Since 2016, the Treasury has allocated more than £2.4 billion of funding for all exit scenarios.
[Official Report, 16 May 2019, Vol. 660, c. 358.]
Letter of correction from the Under-Secretary of State for Exiting the European Union, the hon. Member for Braintree (James Cleverly):
An error has been identified in my response to the right hon. Member for Wolverhampton South East (Mr McFadden).
The correct response should have been:
James Cleverly
Additional EU exit funding allocated by Her Majesty’s Treasury to Departments and devolved Administrations covers all scenarios. No-deal spending cannot readily be separated from deal spending, given the significant overlap in plans in many cases. Since 2016, the Treasury has allocated more than £4.2 billion of funding for all exit scenarios.
European Union (Withdrawal) Act 2018 (Exit Day) (Amendment) (No. 2) Regulations 2019
James Cleverly Excerpts(4 years, 11 months ago)
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The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Exiting the European Union (James Cleverly)
It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Sir Lindsay, and to see so many good friends—right. hon. and hon. Friends—making our Benches groan under the weight of their attendance. Someone in this room is box office. It could be the hon. Member for Greenwich and Woolwich or it could be me, but I strongly suspect it is you, Sir Lindsay.
I am conscious that we are short of time, so I will try to rattle through my speech, which addresses almost all the points that have been raised. It is important to be clear from the outset that the statutory instrument does not change the time and date that the UK will leave the EU. That happened at the European Council on 11 April as a matter of international law.
Mr Rees-Mogg
Has not the Minister, in those few words, revealed the scandal of what has happened? Some 17.4 million people voted to leave; 500 Members of this House voted to exercise article 50; and one person, the Prime Minister, who had said 100 times that we would leave on 29 March, stopped it. That killed democracy.
James Cleverly
I will address that point, if my hon. Friend will be patient for a minute or two.
The decision to seek a further extension followed votes and the passage of primary legislation in Parliament that supported the extension of article 50. The statutory instrument is about ensuring that our domestic legislation reflects international law and about avoiding confusion in our domestic statute book, which would help no one.
John Redwood
Does the Minister understand the feeling of constitutional outrage in this country, which many of us have come to express? Because of the Government’s timetabling, and the packed Committee, we have not been able to make speeches. That is why this Parliament is losing it with the public, and that is why the mood out there is so hostile to the Government and the Opposition—because they delayed Brexit and are stealing democracy from the British people.
James Cleverly
I completely understand. I have been knocking on doors, as I am sure my right hon. Friend has, and I am well aware of the anger—I will not be euphemistic and use the word “frustration”—out there about the fact that Brexit has not yet been delivered. Again, I will come on to that specific point.
I will have to be ungenerous with regard to further interventions, because I am conscious—
Vicky Ford
I thank the Minister, my neighbour, for giving way. I certainly do not want to prolong the discussion—a lot has been said—and, most importantly, I do not want to prolong the uncertainty in the country. Can he confirm that if an agreement is achieved before the end of October, we can leave before then, and that there is nothing in the statutory instrument to prevent us leaving earlier, if an agreement is achieved earlier?
James Cleverly
My hon. Friend makes a good point, which I will address. I will try to rattle through, because several specific points have been raised by hon. Members on both sides of the Committee, but predominantly on this side, which I wish to address and for which I have notes.
Parliament has been clear. It voted to extend article 50 beyond 29 March. Both Houses approved the statutory instrument that redefined the exit date in line with the initial extension to 12 April. Despite the Government’s opposition, Parliament supported and passed the Cooper-Letwin Act, formally known as the European Union (Withdrawal) Act 2019, which required the Government to seek a further extension to article 50. Parliament voted in favour of the Government’s motion to seek that further extension and, during the passage of the Cooper-Letwin Act, voted to ensure that any further statutory instrument required to fix the domestic statute book would be subject to the negative procedure. It cannot be said that the statutory instrument goes against the will of Parliament.
Nor can it be said that the Government are going beyond their remit. Seeking a further extension was not just the will of Parliament, but a legal requirement set out by the Cooper-Letwin Act. The Act required the Government to lay a motion to set out their intention to seek a further extension. The Government’s motion was laid on 9 April and approved by a majority of 420 to 110.
Mr Steve Baker (Wycombe) (Con)
I will take this opportunity to congratulate the Minister on his appointment—it is a delight to see him in his place. Could he refresh my memory about whether the Cooper-Letwin Bill was introduced after the Prime Minister had chosen to proceed in that way?
James Cleverly
I would have to refer to Hansard to make a decisive comment on that. I can only assume from the certainty with which my hon. Friend delivered that intervention that he knows the chronology. The main point is that the Prime Minister was required to act by an Act of Parliament, and as my hon. Friend the Member for Stone highlights, we all—and that includes the Government—have to act within the law.
The agreement reached with the European Council was for an extension until 31 October 2019, but with the important caveat—this was the point made by my hon. Friend the Member for Chelmsford—that it could be ended earlier if the withdrawal agreement is ratified prior to that date. That was agreed by the UK and the EU and the new date of 31 October 2019 was fixed in international law in the early hours of 11 April.
Mr Francois
Will the Minister confirm two things? The first is that we cannot extend article 50 again unless the UK Government consent—in other words, that the EU cannot extend it again against our will. Secondly, will he confirm that no indicative vote in this House would stop us leaving on 31 October and that if we do not ask to extend, the only thing that would legally stop us leaving on that date is an Act of Parliament? Is that correct?
James Cleverly
The Government have made it clear that the default position if no other proactive measure is taken by the House is that we leave on 31 October, without an agreement if that is the case. That is the default position and that is why the Government maintain preparations for what we call a no-deal Brexit on 31 October 2019.
James Cleverly
The default position is that that is how we leave. The House would have to do something proactively to prevent that.
The purpose of this statutory instrument is to align UK domestic legislation and international legislation. Hon. Members will recall that for the first extension of article 50, the equivalent SI was subject to the affirmative procedure and debated in both Houses before it came into force.
Sir William Cash
I hope that my hon. Friend will not mind my saying that what he is doing, quite understandably given the complexity of these questions, is reading out the brief that has been given to him by the Government lawyers and others. What he is not doing, if I might say so—and neither are some other members of the Committee—is addressing the questions that I put in my opening argument. That is rather a different question, and that is what the debate ought to be about.
James Cleverly
With the greatest respect to Members, as I said at the start of my speech, my belief, having read through what is my speech rather than someone else’s notes, is that the points my hon. Friend brought up are addressed. If in the short time available I can reach the end of my speech, I am confident that those issues will be covered. If I am cut short, he might be left disappointed.
The Cooper-Letwin Act changed the procedure from affirmative to negative. That was in response to the tight timescales faced and Parliament’s desire that, following an extension, domestic legislation would be updated to avoid unnecessary and widespread confusion. My hon. Friend the Member for Stone highlights the pace of this process. Indeed, the timescales were tight. The extension of article 50 was agreed in the early hours of 11 April. At that point, exit day in our domestic law was still defined as 11 pm on 12 April. Although the agreement with the EU meant that we would remain a member state, if this SI had not come into effect before 11 pm on 12 April there would have been legal confusion.
James Cleverly
I am very conscious of the fact that many of the points raised by Members are included in my speech, and if I keep taking interventions I will not be able to get to them. I know that my hon. Friend will be frustrated with this, but I will plough on.
Major changes to the domestic statute book reflecting our exit from the EU are due to take effect on exit day, which at that point was defined as 11 pm on 12 April. Those changes apply across a huge number of policy areas and are designed so that our statute book works when we leave the EU. Once the further extension of article 50 was agreed, we needed to amend the dates to reflect the new point at which EU treaties would cease to apply to the UK, and ensure the correct functioning of our domestic statute book.
The consequences of not changing the definition of exit day would be serious, and would be of benefit to no one. We estimate that tens of thousands of amendments to our domestic legislation will be made in the light of EU exit. Those include changes that relate to the sharing of information, reporting requirements placed on businesses and public institutions, and the role of the European Commission in issuing licences and certificates—those examples are from across the statute book. It is clear that unless exit day is correctly defined, there will be significant confusion and uncertainty for businesses and individuals, including the risk that firms stop trading to avoid legal breaches and given their uncertainty about new customs, excise and VAT regimes that may kick in.
I have slightly lost track of which interventions were shot at me from the Government Benches, but I believe that my hon. Friend the Member for Wycombe asked whether we can confirm that the UK must agree an extension. [Interruption.] In fact, no; it was my right hon. Friend the Member for Rayleigh and Wickford. Any extension needs to be agreed in the UK. The agreement of this House was taken to the EU and expressed by the Prime Minister the last time around, on 11 April. Something similar would have to be done for any future extension.
The SI defines exit day as 31 October 2019, in line with the European Council’s decision, and therefore in line with international law. Hon. Members will be aware that the extension can be terminated before that point if the withdrawal agreement is ratified at an earlier date. Although this SI simply reflects the decision on article 50 in domestic law, it is the Government’s main priority to leave the European Union as soon as possible. The Prime Minister has made it clear that the UK should leave the EU in an orderly way and without undue delay.
Andrew Bridgen (North West Leicestershire) (Con)
Will the Minister concede to the Committee that, as part of the Prime Minister’s negotiations to get this extension to article 50, she gave further concessions to the European Union, some of which—but not exclusively—are that the withdrawal agreement cannot be re-opened before 31 October and that there will be no discussions about our future relationship before that date?
James Cleverly
The extension to article 50 did not come with conditions from the European Union.
Once we know the clear date and time when the withdrawal agreement is ratified, we will ensure that it is reflected in the statute book. In response to the point made by the hon. Member for Greenwich and Woolwich, should exit day change from 31 October 2019 in international law for any reason—for example, because the withdrawal agreement has been ratified—the Government will bring forward another SI to ensure that that change is reflected in our domestic statute book.
An extension to article 50 was not the Government’s desired outcome. There was an opportunity to leave on time and in an orderly fashion by voting for the Prime Minister’s withdrawal agreement. The House did not take that opportunity, and instead mandated that the Prime Minister should seek an extension, which she duly did. As soon as that extension was agreed by the European Council, it became binding in international law. However, the issue today is not the extension of article 50 itself, but whether our domestic statute book reflects the extension.
Without this SI, the status of our domestic statute book would be confusing and unclear, with the provisions of UK and EU laws clashing. The Government will soon bring the withdrawal agreement Bill to the House, so that the UK can leave the EU in good order and as soon as possible. I therefore hope that the Committee agrees that this extension, and this SI, were essential.
The Chair
I call the hon. Member for Chelmsford. [Interruption.] Okay—you indicated before that you wished to speak, but are now happy not to, which is great.
Sir John, before I bring you in, will you make sure to leave two minutes for Sir William? I call Sir John Redwood.
Oral Answers to Questions
James Cleverly Excerpts(4 years, 11 months ago)
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Tom Pursglove (Corby) (Con)
The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Exiting the European Union (James Cleverly)
Revoking article 50 would cause irreparable damage to the relationship between voters and the Members of Parliament who represent them. It would reverse the outcome of the 2016 referendum, betraying not only the 17.4 million voters who voted to leave but everyone who voted, putting their faith in our democracy at risk. Revoking article 50 would break the trust the British people place in politicians, in voting and in democracy.
Tom Pursglove
I am grateful to the Minister for that answer. What steps is his Department taking to maintain the public’s faith in the importance of their votes and confidence in this Government delivering what they said they would deliver, particularly as we head into European elections that the public did not want, vote for or support?
James Cleverly
Ultimately, there are only three ways that this situation can resolve itself: the UK leaves the EU with an agreement; the UK leaves without an agreement; or we revoke article 50 and do not leave. Leaving without a deal is undesirable, but not leaving is unacceptable. That is why the Government maintain the position that they want to leave the European Union with an agreement as quickly as possible, restoring people’s faith in the democratic process and honouring the commitment we made in the 2016 referendum.
Stephen Timms (East Ham) (Lab)
Next month, it will be three years since the referendum. Does the Minister regard the referendum choice as binding for all time? Does he not recognise that at some point it will be necessary to go back to the people and ask whether they still think leaving the EU is a good idea?
James Cleverly
The Government’s position is that the referendum result is binding until it is delivered.
Jonathan Edwards (Carmarthen East and Dinefwr) (PC)
Will not the biggest danger to confidence in democracy come when the promised sunlit uplands fail to materialise? Is not the only way out of this mess to go back to the people and ask them to exercise their democratic choice?
James Cleverly
The British people have already exercised their democratic choice. I do not subscribe to the negative predictions that the hon. Gentleman and others have made about a post-Brexit British future. More importantly, international businesses do not agree with him; inward investment into the UK is still flourishing. The employment market does not agree with his predictions either, because unemployment is still reducing and employment is still increasing. I am confident—the Government are confident—that there is a bright future ahead for this country outside the European Union. That is what we are committed to delivering and that is what we are working towards.
Michael Fabricant (Lichfield) (Con)
Mr Pat McFadden (Wolverhampton South East) (Lab)
The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Exiting the European Union (James Cleverly)
Additional EU exit funding allocated by Her Majesty’s Treasury to Departments and devolved Administrations covers all scenarios. No-deal spending cannot readily be separated from deal spending, given the significant overlap in plans in many cases. Since 2016, the Treasury has allocated more than £2.4 billion of funding for all exit scenarios.[Official Report, 20 May 2019, Vol. 660, c. 6MC.]
Mr McFadden
Despite talking up and legitimising a no-deal outcome for two years, the Prime Minister applied for two different extensions to the article 50 period to avoid that outcome, because she knows it would be damaging to the country. The Minister talks of £2.4 billion. Would that money not have been better spent on the fight against knife crime, on helping families struggling to cope with universal credit or on 100 other causes that would benefit our constituents, rather than on an argument that, by the Prime Minister’s actions, she has shown she does not even believe in?
James Cleverly
Her Majesty’s Government have never had the policy to take no deal off the table; the House has committed the Government through votes to do so. The right hon. Gentleman talks about spending in other Departments. We have, for example, seen record spending in the national health service, making good on the Government’s commitment. If he does not want to see any more money spent on no-deal preparations, it is incumbent on him to bring this to a conclusion, and the best way of doing so is by voting for the withdrawal agreement Bill when it is presented to the House, giving this country certainty and the ability to move forward in a post-Brexit world.
Matthew Pennycook (Greenwich and Woolwich) (Lab)
In an op-ed in The Sun on Saturday, the Brexit Secretary argued that
“it would be inexcusable for the Government to not use the coming months to continue to prepare”
for no deal. Indeed, based on his answers today, no doubt he would like to accelerate those preparations. However, as the public know, given that they get advance sight of pending public rows in their morning newspapers, the Chancellor of the Exchequer takes a different view. He recently issued an edict that no further Treasury money will be provided for no-deal planning ahead of the 31 October deadline. When it comes to no-deal planning, will the new Under-Secretary tell us who actually speaks for the Government?
James Cleverly
The Treasury has already allocated money for no-deal preparation. We continue to prepare for no deal, because at the moment there is still the possibility that on 31 October the United Kingdom will leave with no deal. Members of the House who are uncomfortable with that position can take a no-deal Brexit off the table by voting for a withdrawal agreement and leaving with a deal, which remains the Government’s policy. If we were to do that, we could move on to the second stage of the negotiations and set about creating a strong working relationship with our European partners and other nations around the world.
David Duguid (Banff and Buchan) (Con)
European Union (Withdrawal) (No. 5) Bill
James Cleverly ExcerptsWednesday 3rd April 2019
(5 years ago)
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David Hanson
That is an interesting point. The amendments are fresh, but the key thing for me is that the House has shown in the last three months—certainly in the last two to three weeks—that it will not accept unilaterally what the Prime Minister wants to bring back to the House, and this House has many ways in which it can check the Executive’s decisions.
The simple point I make is that, in my constituency in north Wales, the manufacturing businesses that make cars have said that no deal would cost them £10 million per day; the farmers who produce lamb would not be able to export in a no-deal scenario; and Airbus, which makes the best planes in the world, would have difficulty exporting in a no-deal scenario. The Cabinet Office has said that prices would rise—it is not me saying that, it is the Government’s own estimation.
My right hon. Friend the Member for Normanton, Pontefract and Castleford mentioned the European arrest warrant and the SIS II agreement on sharing information. We do not know whether those would exist in their current form in a no-deal scenario. In the Select Committee on Justice, on which I sit, neither the Secretary of State for Justice this morning nor the Solicitor General yesterday could give assurances about the future relationship on important matters of security and justice in a no-deal scenario.
James Cleverly (Braintree) (Con)
The right hon. Gentleman makes a compelling case on people’s concerns about what may happen in a Brexit without a withdrawal agreement, but the European Union has explained to us on many occasions that the withdrawal agreement is now basically a hermetically sealed box, and many of the things he discusses in relation to the future relationship, such as trading, are encompassed in the political declaration, which cannot be binding—we have been told that many times. I genuinely fail to understand why, if he is so concerned about our leaving without an agreement, he does not just vote for the withdrawal agreement and then set about making his case for what should be in the political declaration, which cannot be binding until we have formally left the European Union.
David Hanson
With due respect to the hon. Gentleman, we have had that argument over the last three or four weeks, and the House of Commons has spoken. That is why his party leader has invited my party leader to discuss the next steps. I will wait to hear what the Under-Secretary of State for Exiting the European Union, the hon. Member for Worcester (Mr Walker), says about the Government’s amendments, because we need to be clear about those. However, the fettering of the process by the dates stated in the amendments would cause great difficulty for the objective of my right hon. Friend the Member for Normanton, Pontefract and Castleford, which is to ensure that next week, whatever happens with our discussions, we have a date determined by the Prime Minister for when we will leave with a deal, rather than crash out without a deal in the future.
UK’s Withdrawal from the EU
James Cleverly Excerpts(5 years, 2 months ago)
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Keir Starmer
I will in a minute.
And the Prime Minister returned with nothing—warm words in the margins of the EU summit in December, and a letter, coupled with a statement about Northern Ireland, that simply repeated already existing commitments. That is what she came back with. The meaningful vote was then put on 15 January, and it was lost heavily. That evening, the Prime Minister stood at the Dispatch Box and promised to explore ideas with the European Union, following cross-party talks on how to proceed. That was 30 days ago, and there were then 75 days until 29 March.
Keir Starmer
I will in just a minute.
Two weeks after that, on 29 January, the Prime Minister voted for the so-called Brady amendment.
Keir Starmer
I will give way in just a minute.
The amendment called for the backstop to be replaced with alternative arrangements. It was extraordinary: a Prime Minister voting to support her own deal only on condition that it is changed—conditional support for her own deal. Nobody prepared the business community for that, and nobody prepared Northern Ireland or EU leaders for that. Anybody who has spoken to businesses, been to Northern Ireland or spoken to political leaders in the EU in recent days knows that, by three-line whipping her own MPs to vote against the deal she negotiated, the Prime Minister has lost a good deal of trust in the process.
James Cleverly
Can the right hon. and learned Gentleman not understand the nonsense of his own argument? He suggests on the one hand that the Prime Minister is trying to run down the clock, and then he lists the various occasions when she has attempted to stop the clock, get a deal and exit the European Union.
Keir Starmer
I am grateful for that intervention: I think the hon. Gentleman has missed the point. The Prime Minister has spent weeks—[Interruption.] The hon. Gentleman wants an answer and then interrupts while I am trying to speak. The Prime Minister has spent weeks and weeks trying to negotiate changes to the backstop—it started way before the vote was pulled on 10 December, and it has gone on ever since—and she has got absolutely nowhere.
Brexit Negotiations and No Deal Contingency Planning
James Cleverly Excerpts(5 years, 7 months ago)
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Dominic Raab
No, and I say to the hon. Gentleman, whom I hold in high regard and have debated this issue with during and since the referendum, that even bandying that around would almost invite the worst terms from our EU partners, which I know is not what he or I wish.
James Cleverly (Braintree) (Con)
In December 2017 Michel Barnier said the UK would not have a bespoke deal, yet in August 2018 Michel Barnier said the deal given to the UK would be unlike that enjoyed by any other country. So may I urge my right hon. Friend not to listen to the voices opposite who encourage him to treat Michel Barnier as an intransigent person who is unwilling to negotiate and be flexible, but rather to treat him as a sensible pragmatic negotiating partner with whom we can and should negotiate the best deal for both the UK and the EU?
Dominic Raab
My hon. Friend is absolutely right. I pay respect to Michel Barnier and his team; they are very professional and I am confident that they are a team and Michel Barnier is an individual who we can do business with, and that, as my hon. Friend described, if the ambition and pragmatism that we have demonstrated in our proposals are matched, we will get a good deal—good for Britain and good for the EU.
Exiting the EU: Sectoral Impact Assessments
James Cleverly Excerpts(6 years, 5 months ago)
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Mr Walker
I thank the hon. Lady for her intervention. I have always been clear that we have a responsibility to people on all sides of the referendum debate to deliver a successful outcome to our negotiations. However, delivering a successful outcome to our negotiations for the whole country does require keeping some information confidential for the purposes of negotiation.
James Cleverly (Braintree) (Con)
Does my hon. Friend agree that, while the right hon. and learned Member for Holborn and St Pancras (Keir Starmer) is self-evidently an expert lawyer, he is quite clearly a very lacking negotiator? Putting this level of information potentially into the hands of the people with whom we are negotiating could very seriously undermine our ability to do the right thing for the British people.