Humanist Weddings

Lord Ponsonby of Shulbrede Excerpts

Monday 30th June 2025 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Thornton]

To ask His Majesty’s Government what progress has been made to enable legal humanist weddings.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Ministry of Justice (Lord Ponsonby of Shulbrede) (Lab)]

My Lords, the strength of feeling around legally recognising humanist weddings is clear. I assure my noble friend that the Government understand the issues, including the key importance not just of weddings but of marriage itself, and we are looking at them with the utmost care. As the Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, my honourable friend Alex Davies-Jones, said in the other place a couple of weeks ago, our officials are working on this issue “at pace” and an update “will come soon”.

[Baroness Thornton (Lab)]

I thank my noble friend for that and I apologise to the House for the fact that I have persistently been asking this question for the last few years. I am channelling my noble friend Lord Rooker on folic acid, and I just hope it is not going to take me quite as long as it took him to win that argument. As my noble friend has said, the Minister responsible for matter in the other place said that

“officials are working on this at pace”,—[Official Report, Commons, 12/6/25; col. 454WH.]

but she said that they were working at pace on the position of wedding law reform, so while there may be the slightest glimmer of hope, I am rather worried that law reform looks like it may take years. Therefore, I re-ask my noble friend whether we are looking at months or years for humanists not be left at the altar any longer.

[Lord Ponsonby of Shulbrede (Lab)]

As I think my noble friend acknowledges, this is indeed a very complex issue which goes far beyond humanist marriage. The Law Commission highlighted the complexities of the law in this area and concluded that exercising the order-making power, which is what I think my noble friend wants us to do, is not, in its view, a viable option. We believe, as a responsive Government, that we need to look at the wider picture. I say to my noble friend that when we say we are working at pace on this issue, that is indeed true: we do want to resolve the wide-ranging discrepancies within wedding law across England and Wales.

[Lord Young of Cookham (Con)]

My Lords—

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[Lord Young of Cookham (Con)]

I am grateful. Has the Minister refreshed his memory as to what he said on this subject on 25 April 2022 when he was in opposition? This is what he said:

“My Lords, the Liberal Democrats clearly support this change; the Labour Party supports this change; the Government in Wales support this change; the Government in Scotland support this change … so why are the Government waiting for the Law Commission’s report?”.—[Official Report, 25/4/22; col. 9.]


Can he now answer his own question?

[Lord Ponsonby of Shulbrede (Lab)]

I remember that debate very well, and I did indeed say those words. The answer is that it is a very complex question. There are many idiosyncrasies across wedding law in England and Wales, as there are in Scotland and Northern Ireland. The Government believe that we need to take our time to address this issue properly.

[Baroness Meacher (CB)]

My Lords, the Minister refers to this as a “complex question”. The fact is that Ministers may make this into a complex question by extending it beyond the simple question: should humanist marriages be legalised? If one sticks to that simple question, it is not complex and it could be agreed now, today.

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[Lord Ponsonby of Shulbrede (Lab)]

I think it was the previous Government who asked the Law Commission to do its report. The Law Commission came up with 57 recommendations for changes to marriage in England and Wales and we want to take our time to look at those.

[Baroness Royall of Blaisdon (Lab)]

My Lords, I understand that reforming marriage laws is a complex business, but in terms of removing discrimination against humanists who wish to get married, as their religious counterparts do, why do the Government not lay an order, just as an interim measure, which would enable humanists to marry?

[Lord Ponsonby of Shulbrede (Lab)]

I thank my noble friend for that question. I think the answer is the same as that I have given to others, which is because solving this anomaly for humanists would create other anomalies. That is why we want to take our time, although we are working at pace, to resolve the anomalies with weddings in England and Wales.

[The Lord Bishop of Guildford]

My Lords, noble Lords will not be surprised to hear from these Benches that I am thoroughly in favour of marriage. I want to stress the many benefits of getting married in church, but I am also in favour of encouraging more people to marry wherever, provided that the ceremony reflects the seriousness of the commitment being entered into and the love that lies at its core. To that end, does the Minister agree that if adjustments were to be made to our current premises-based system to enable legal humanist marriages, the door should not be opened so wide that it brings in a free market in commercial celebrants that will cheapen and devalue what is such a vital and foundational institution?

[Lord Ponsonby of Shulbrede (Lab)]

I thank the right reverend Prelate for his question, and I agree with his point that marriage should be a serious statement of love between two partners for the rest of their lives. It is not just about marriage; it is about the weddings that lead into that lifelong commitment. He raises an interesting point about whether, in England and Wales, we should move away from a premises-based system, which is what we have at the moment. Scotland, for example, has an officiant-based system, and there may be arguments for making that move; that is what the Government want to look at based on the recommendations of the Law Commission.

[Baroness Burt of Solihull (LD)]

My Lords, there is no question—to argue with the right reverend Prelate—that a commercial aspect is part of a humanist wedding; it is a very strong and serious undertaking that shows humanist couples love each other. I recommend that he might want to come along and reassure himself that humanist weddings are a lovely thing.

However, I have a different angle on this. Arguably, LGBT humanists feel even more discriminated against, because they are significantly more likely to identify as non-religious. Therefore, what consideration have the Government given to humanist marriages from this equalities perspective? What advice do the Government have for humanist LGBT couples who want to get married in line with their beliefs?

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[Lord Ponsonby of Shulbrede (Lab)]

I agree 100% with the opening remarks of the noble Baroness. I recognise what she said about that. However, it is worth reflecting on the case of Harrison, where the High Court found that there was a difference in treatment in weddings law towards humanists, but it went on to say that the Government were justified in taking their time to review the recommendations from the Law Commission, which is what we are doing. I appreciate the frustration, and I appreciate that this affects disproportionately the gay community. Nevertheless, the Government’s point stands that we need to get this right because there are other anomalies in the system that also need to be addressed.

[Lord Birt (CB)]

My Lords, we are outliers. You can have a humanist marriage in Scotland, Northern Ireland, Ireland, the United States, Australia, New Zealand, Canada and a host of other countries, but, but as everyone else has said, you cannot have one in England or Wales. I agree with the Minister that it is right that the Law Commission fundamentally reviews the totality of our extraordinarily antiquated and outdated marriage laws. I hope the Minister will make haste on that. In the meantime, what could possibly be lost by the Government immediately triggering the power that I understand they hold under the 2013 same sex marriage Act and enabling humanist marriage in England and Wales now?

[Lord Ponsonby of Shulbrede (Lab)]

I can certainly give an assurance to the noble Lord, Lord Birt, that we are making haste, and we will make an announcement soon. I know I have said that on previous occasions, but I mean it and a statement will come soon.

I have made this point before, but I will make it in a different way. There are people who have humanist marriages in Northern Ireland and Scotland. People can and do have humanist marriages in England and Wales, but they also have to go to a town hall or something to get the state to recognise the status of their marriage. It is that anomaly which needs to be addressed when we review the 57 wider recommendations of the Law Commission.