Westminster Hall

Tuesday 18th December 2012 Westminster Hall

Tuesday 18 December 2012

[Mr James Gray in the Chair]

Yorkshire (Tour de France)

Tuesday 18th December 2012 Westminster Hall

Motion made, and Question proposed, That the sitting be now adjourned.—(Mr Syms.)

09:30

[Julian Smith (Skipton and Ripon) (Con)]

It is a pleasure to have secured this debate under your chairmanship, Mr Gray, particularly with your strong links to north Yorkshire and my constituency.

Without doubt, 2012 has been one of the greatest years in British sport. We have hosted the Olympic games in London. Our Olympians achieved the best medal haul since 1908—65 medals, including 29 golds. Super Saturday, 4 August, was undoubtedly Britain’s best athletics night. My noble Friend Lord Coe described it as “the greatest day” of sport that he had ever witnessed. It was a great Olympics for Britain and a great Olympics for Yorkshire, as we romped home with the largest number of medals for the UK.

Andy Murray has become the first British man since 1936 to win a grand slam. In golf, there was Europe’s nail-biting Ryder cup win, and Rory McIlroy has had another incredible year. There are many examples of success from across our country and our sports. Most importantly, the 2012 Paralympics were declared the greatest ever. They have had a massive impact on the perception of disabilities in athletics and in our society more generally. This has been a golden year of sport: it has produced not only brilliant results, but Olympic heroes who are inspiring people, young and old, to take part in sport and engage in exercise, which is the best way to stay fit and live longer.

The games have also shown that Britain is second to none in hosting and running great sporting events. Sport opens doors—it did so for me as a junior squash international, and it has done so for Britain this year. It has been the most incredible advert for our nation, character, values, companies and spirit. The Minister was one of the few people who were behind the most incredible games in history. I pay tribute to the work that he has done to ensure that the year 2012 will never be forgotten in world sporting history.

Of all the sporting achievements during this amazing year, cycling success stands out. I am told that the atmosphere in the velodrome was electric, although I could get tickets only for Greco-Roman wrestling. The roll-call of success could go on and on—Sir Chris Hoy, Victoria Pendleton and Laura Trott, to name but three, and of course the man who won the BBC sports personality of the year on Sunday, Bradley Wiggins. He received almost half a million votes, which again shows the popularity of cycling. It was a fitting end to 2012, during which he became the first Briton to win the Tour de France and his fourth Olympic gold. His success has inspired many to get on their bikes. Cycling is well and truly riding high: on the eve of the new year, Britain is at the top of its sporting game and is riding high on a sea of lactic acid and adrenaline.

Against that backdrop, we have had the most incredible news from Yorkshire. Last week, it was announced that the grand départ of the Tour de France, the world’s largest annual sporting event, will come to the north of England for the first time. The tour will wend and weave its way across Yorkshire on 5 and 6 July 2014, before coming to London and going on to France. It has been the most monumental achievement to win this event. Welcome to Yorkshire, the region’s tourism body, began working on a bid to host the tour, in partnership with Leeds city council, in 2011. The bid had fierce competition from Scotland, Barcelona, Germany, Utrecht and Florence. Yorkshire has had high-profile support from Mark Cavendish, Team Sky’s Ben Swift and Olympic gold medallist Ed Clancy, as well as three key historic Yorkshire riders—Malcolm Elliott, Brian Robinson and Barry Hoban.

[Julian Sturdy (York Outer) (Con)]

On Mark Cavendish’s support for Yorkshire’s bid, does my hon. Friend agree with his comment that Yorkshire

“is one of the most beautiful parts of not just England but the world”?

[Julian Smith]

I of course agree with my hon. Friend, and I hope to describe that beauty in my speech.

[Hilary Benn (Leeds Central) (Lab)]

I congratulate the hon. Gentleman on his timing and foresight. No sooner had he secured this debate than we are able to meet here to celebrate the success of Yorkshire’s bid. The people of Leeds and everyone in Yorkshire are really looking forward to witnessing the grand départ from the centre of Leeds during the summer after next. Will he join me in congratulating all those—he has mentioned some of them—who had the audacity and vision to make the bid in the first place? Does he share the hope of us all here that UK Sport, with the Government’s encouragement, will now back the bid, including with a bit of cash?

[Julian Smith]

I thank the right hon. Gentleman for his intervention. I shall come on to the Government shortly, but I want to pay tribute to his work and efforts in ensuring that that effort has always been a cross-party one.

As the right hon. Gentleman says, the bid had the full backing of local authorities in Yorkshire, the police, transport companies and the whole business community. A public campaign was launched to encourage people to show their support for the Yorkshire bid, and it has received more than 170,000 pledges. We have had great support from our regional media—the Yorkshire Post, ITV, the BBC, Thomson Press and Ackrill Media. Even French President Francois Hollande backed Yorkshire’s bid to host le Tour following a meeting with the Leader of the Opposition in Paris.

The Government have challenged the country to embrace localism. Yorkshire has taken that challenge and won the most incredible event for the UK and the north. Many people have been involved, and I again pay tribute to the right hon. Member for Leeds Central (Hilary Benn), the hon. Member for Leeds North West (Greg Mulholland) and many other right hon. and hon. Members and noble Members of the House of Lords who have shown their support. My hon. Friend the Member for Selby and Ainsty (Nigel Adams) hosted the Paris organisers of the Tour de France, and anyone who knows him will know that that was a very good evening.

The person who did the deal—it is important to put this on the record—is Gary Verity, the chief executive of Welcome to Yorkshire, with his team, and also Tom Riordan, chief executive officer of Leeds city council. When I met Gary Verity and Christian Prudhomme, race director of le Tour, at St Pancras earlier this year, following their whirlwind tour of many of the jewels of Yorkshire, I saw how positive the chemistry and trust between them was. I therefore knew several months ago that we had a good chance of getting the deal. Gary and his team have delivered a great opportunity for Yorkshire, and have again proved that we must ensure that their future and funding is secure.

We do not yet know exactly where the grand départ will be—we will find out in the coming months—but one thing is certain. As my hon. Friend the Member for York Outer (Julian Sturdy) has said, the Tour will travel through some of the most beautiful towns and villages in the land.

[Craig Whittaker (Calder Valley) (Con)]

I thank my hon. Friend for securing this debate on the world’s biggest bike race. In 2014, its grand départ will be in west Yorkshire, an honour and a privilege of which we are all very proud. Full details of the route will not be announced until next month, but does he agree that challenging cycle routes—such as the UK’s longest gradient in the Calder valley, at Cragg vale—and the many hilltop villages around the Calder valley would be excellent venues for cyclists and would bring huge value to the local economy?

[Julian Smith]

I am sure that the Calder valley will be at the top of the short list for the route.

I regularly see cyclists from all parts of the world touring through the Yorkshire dales and Nidderdale, along such world-renowned routes as Greenhow hill outside Pateley Bridge. We could add the starting point in Leeds—Britain’s second financial centre—the industrial heartlands of south Yorkshire, the north Yorkshire moors, the historic cathedral cities of York and Ripon, the gateway to the dales of Skipton and the coastal roads of the east coast. From Harrogate to Selby, Keighley to Halifax, Huddersfield to Masham, the list of places the Tour could go is endless. We could host the whole thing in Yorkshire, not just the grand départ—perhaps, though, we are getting a little ahead of ourselves.

England’s largest county—God’s own—will wow the world and provide exceptional terrain and challenge for the grand départ and the first two stages. With world heritage sites in Fountains abbey and Saltaire and hundreds of homes and attractions, we will entertain the millions of visitors we expect to receive. In addition to the big attractions, we have thousands of smaller tourism businesses across our region already e-mailing to say that they are getting bookings for early July. Heslaker farm, Yorkshire Dales Ice Cream, Theakstons and Black Sheep will all give a warm welcome to visitors. The Tour stages in 2014, in Yorkshire, will be the best ever.

We also have some of the most passionate sports fans in the country. When the Olympic torch passed through Yorkshire, we had double the national daily average of people watching elsewhere in the country. With millions being invested by the Government in better broadband across north Yorkshire, we are creating the infrastructure to make the event a success. The Government have invested in the Northern Hub, bus services and other transport links. We are even asking our world famous Yorkshire bishops to assist with the weather.

This morning at Westminster, right hon. and hon. Members from across the House are forming a Yorkshire and UK Tour de France all-party parliamentary group to ensure that this place gives all the support that it can. There are 54 MPs from Yorkshire alone, which is nearly 10% of the House of Commons.

Before the Olympic games, people often said to me, “It is great, but it won’t mean much for Yorkshire.” Even the most hardened critic will now admit that they were wrong. I am talking about not just the feel-good factor of the games themselves or the economic boost from people coming to the UK, but the lasting legacy. With the Tour de France win, we will see Yorkshire as the centre of focus for 2014, with other parts of the UK benefiting as well. Less than two years after London 2012, we can look forward to another of the world’s biggest sporting events coming to this country, but this time it is coming to the north.

In 2007, the Tour stages in the south-east of England were worth £88 million. Bringing the grand départ to Yorkshire will be worth more than £300 million. For an area of Britain that has weathered the global economic storm but is finding things tough, the event will make a real difference. Businesses big and small across Yorkshire now need to be on red alert to take advantage of all the procurement and support services that will be needed. As Members of Parliament, we will provide all the help that we can, and I hope that the Government will play their part.

From ice cream to beer, hotel rooms to office support, there will be huge opportunities, but there will be broader potential to benefit, too. This is the most watched sporting event, with more than 3.5 billion viewers worldwide. More than 185 countries around the world show the Tour de France every year on 92 different television channels, with the last hour of every stage broadcast live across western Europe.

Yorkshire businesses that currently work abroad or that would like to do so in the future should think of this event as the biggest shop window there is. It will be a great advertisement to companies and people elsewhere in the world who have not heard of Yorkshire and who are looking for a UK base and who want to relocate in the north. It will also be good for the health of our region. We need to get out and exercise more; the Yorkshire Tour will vastly expand the number of bike routes and promote exercise and activity to all.

Yorkshire’s legacy plans are already being discussed and formalised. They include a bike bank, so all children in Yorkshire have access to a bike. There will be more investment in cycle lanes and cycle infrastructure across the county. There will be a cultural festival, too, celebrating both cycling and Yorkshire art and culture. Yorkshire has so much to offer the world, and we now have the chance to showcase that on an unbelievable scale. From literary buffs to entrepreneurs and from couch potatoes to exercise fanatics, le Tour has the potential to change lives.

We are incredibly proud and pleased to be hosting the Tour. There will be a celebratory dinner in Leeds on 17 January to which the Minister has been invited. There is much work to be done over the year ahead to plan the route. As I said at the start, this has been a team effort. Although UK Sport may not have been part of the Yorkshire bid, I was delighted that the Minister for Sport promised to back it 100% if we made it. Yes, Yorkshire has got this far on its own, but to make the very best of the event, we need Government support as well. Will the Minister outline the areas in which the Government will help? How do we get every Department behind this event? How do we ensure that we learn everything from the Olympics and London 2012 and transfer that to the Tour in 2014? How do we ensure that the regional growth fund, skills funding, roads funding and broadband are all right behind the Yorkshire Tour; that UK Trade and Investment makes the most of inward investment opportunities and exports; and, most importantly, that UK Sport, British Cycling and other bodies get behind this win financially?

We want to use this event to help rebalance the British economy, and we need the Government’s help to do so. As one of Britain’s great Sports Ministers, I am confident that my right hon. Friend will rise to the challenge, and I look forward to his response. I urge him to meet me, the bid team and other right hon. and hon. Members this week, and I look forward to his being part of this great event, as he was with the Olympics, showing that this Government are the Government for Sport.

I can already state with confidence that Yorkshire’s Tour de France stages will be a world-beating event. When everyone talked about a lasting Olympic legacy, this must surely be it. I thank London 2012 for setting the bar so high, but if it thought that the world got a great reception from the capital, just wait until it gets the Yorkshire treatment in 2014.

09:47

[Greg Mulholland (Leeds North West) (LD)]

I pay tribute to my colleague and neighbour, my hon. Friend the Member for Skipton and Ripon (Julian Smith), whose constituency I see every time I turn right out of my front door. For me, one of the great pleasures of living in Leeds North West is that it borders both the constituency of the right hon. Member for Leeds Central (Hilary Benn), where this historic event will start, and the constituency of my hon. Friend the Member for Skipton and Ripon. As he knows, when I stand on Otley Chevin, which is a famous hill for cycling, and look down Wharfedale, I can see the north Yorkshire moors, the white horse of Kilburn, the Yorkshire dales, the Yorkshire wolds and the Pennines—all the incredible and wonderful countryside that Yorkshire has to offer.

Friday 4 December is a special day that many of us will remember for a very long time. To win for Yorkshire the grand départ of the Tour de France has been an absolutely sensational coup and an incredible achievement. I want to add my thanks to the team that secured it for our region and pay tribute to their remarkable energy, grit and passion. In particular, I thank Gary Verity of Welcome to Yorkshire and his team, and Tom Riordan, the chief executive of Leeds city council, and his team. I also want to mention the support from all the councils, the chambers of commerce, the business community, the trade unions and the local people, 170,000 of whom “Backed le Bid” online.

As a Leeds MP, I am bursting with pride at the thought that this world-famous event—the biggest sporting event in the world—will start in our home city of Leeds. It is almost hard to take in. Leeds beat Florence, Barcelona and Edinburgh, and it was chosen because it would deliver a better grand départ 2014. That is quite remarkable.

I was delighted to be asked by Welcome to Yorkshire and Leeds city council to be one of the three MP ambassadors, working with my colleagues, my hon. Friend the Member for Skipton and Ripon and the right hon. Member for Leeds Central. As has been described, the three of us were asked to play a role in promoting the project here, on a political level, and to show that there was support from all the Yorkshire MPs. The turnout in Westminster Hall today reflects that support.

That is why I am delighted that we are to set up a new all-party group, so that we MPs do everything we can—and not only in Yorkshire; it is important to remember that le grand départ will, of course, go from Yorkshire to London. I noted that the Mayor of London rightly welcomed the fact that the Tour de France’s grand départ will have a stage in London. That is great for the capital, but he should have the grace to remember that it was Yorkshire that won that stage for London. It would be appropriate for him to thank the organisers for delivering a stage of the Tour de France in London, because it was Yorkshire that won this bid, and it won it alone.

Back in July, I went to dinner at the delightful Yorebridge house in Bainbridge to meet a legend, Brian Robinson, the first British man ever to complete the Tour de France—a Yorkshire man. He was also the first British man ever to win a stage of the Tour de France. His passion is still for cycling, and his drive—along with that of the other people who have already been mentioned—was inspiring. The scenery that people travel through in Yorkshire really speaks for itself. For a comparison, we might look at what the Commonwealth games did for Manchester. That is precisely what we believe we can achieve in Leeds and Yorkshire as a result of this event.

I am delighted to have a real cycling heritage in Leeds, which is a city with many cycling clubs. In my constituency, there is the Otley Cycle Club; Otley has developed a reputation as a national centre for cycling and as a famous British cycling town. Of course, that was cemented when the first British medal of London 2012 was won by Lizzie Armitstead from Otley in a road race. She became the first Olympic medallist ever from Otley. There is the Otley annual road race, Otley Sportive and a real sense that cycling is one of the main sports of the town.

Of course, MPs today will all be getting excited about what the route of le grand départ might be, and whether it will go through their constituency. The organisers will have to make the decision based on what works best for the race; that is right and proper. However, I am sure that they agree that it is really exciting to have this speculation, and we are all hugely excited. I have already had e-mails from people saying where the race should be; that is the excitement that winning the bid has already generated in Yorkshire. That excitement will only build as we approach 2014.

I need to ask a couple of questions of the Minister, because it is important to know that this bid was won entirely by Yorkshire on its own. As I said, that was a sensational coup, and as has already been said—I am sure it will be reiterated by us all—what we want to hear from the Minister, now that the Tour has been won for Yorkshire and the UK, including London, is that the Government, UK Sport and British Cycling will give a full and proper commitment, equalling that of the commitment that would have been made if Scotland had won the bid.

I am sure that the Minister has already passed his congratulations to the team from Yorkshire, and he might suggest to the Prime Minister that he write to the Back le Bid team about their incredible achievement. The Prime Minister may have done so already. I was pleased to see his tweet welcoming the successful Yorkshire bid. As a Yorkshire MP, the Deputy Prime Minister also welcomed it in a statement. Could the Minister share his letter of congratulations and that of the Prime Minister with the new all-party group, because we are keen to see congratulations being rightly given to Yorkshire for delivering something on its own to the UK?

[The Minister of State, Department for Culture, Media and Sport (Hugh Robertson)]

Let me clear that one up straight away. The hon. Gentleman is absolutely right; as soon as the result of the bid was announced at the end of last week, the Prime Minister was quick to add his congratulations, and we put out a press release that afternoon, congratulating the bid team.

Let me address another issue that I think one or two people have quite skilfully ducked around: financial assistance. We will come on to what the Government can do to assist the process in due course, but just be aware that the money—the £1.7 million—that was committed to the Scotland bid is national lottery cash. It is not within the gift of Government to allocate that money directly, because that would break the additionality principles under which the lottery was set up, and under which it has operated under successive Governments. It falls to the Government to set the general parameters. We were able to ask UK Sport to increase the amount of money in the major events pot, which it has done very successfully; now £27 million resides there. It is not up to the Government to allocate that funding directly.

[Greg Mulholland]

I thank the Minister; that is very helpful. I thank him again for his role in securing the funding for the rugby league world cup, which is the next major international sporting event on these shores. I am sure that, in his role and with his passion for sport, he can assist in securing such events. However, a lot of that is about having the formal backing of the Department for Culture, Media and Sport, of the Government and of UK Sport.

I have one question to put gently to the Minister. When it was clear that the Yorkshire bid was an absolutely superb one, and as it emerged that it had a real chance of success for 2014, why did DCMS and UK Sport not decide to say, “We think this is looking very positive, and perhaps we should now look at supporting it publicly”? There are perhaps lessons there for the future.

However, what is important now is to go forward. I urge the Minister to use his role to speak with UK Sport. Some of its officials’ recollections of the meetings with Welcome to Yorkshire do not exactly tally with those of Welcome to Yorkshire officials, and it is important that we clarify that matter, so that we can find a way of using both organisations, because in the end this is a huge opportunity, as the Minister knows, for UK sport, for British cycling, for the sport of cycling, and—as my hon. Friend the Member for Skipton and Ripon has already said—for the economy of Yorkshire and the UK. Of course, a lot of that is to do with legacy. Legacy has already been mentioned; it is incredibly important. I believe that there will be a festival of cycling for Leeds at the time of the grand départ, which is a thrilling prospect; there will also be the bike bank. There is a huge opportunity, and we need to put that legacy plan in place now.

I will conclude, as I know that other colleagues wish to express their delight and add their congratulations on this historic win. I just want to put this in perspective: this is the first year that a British man has ever won the internationally famous blue-riband event that is le Tour de France. It was a remarkable achievement. For a team from Yorkshire to then secure the first ever staging of the Tour in the north of England, and only the second ever staging in the UK, in the same year is a remarkable and historic achievement. We want to make this event as big a success as possible, in terms of sport, health and the economy. We look forward to working very closely with the Minister, with UK Sport and with British Cycling, to ensure that this incredible event achieves everything that it can, and that we know it will.

09:58

[Nigel Adams (Selby and Ainsty) (Con)]

Thank you, Mr Gray, for calling me to speak.

It is a pleasure to take part in this debate. May I congratulate my hon. Friend the Member for Skipton and Ripon (Julian Smith) on having his crystal ball to hand when he applied for this debate? It is great news that one of the world’s greatest sporting events will be starting in our county in 2014.

When I first heard that Yorkshire was going to bid for the grand départ, I thought to myself, “Mais non! C’est pas possible!” However, I did not reckon on the guile, the craft and the salesmanship of Welcome to Yorkshire. Everyone at our tourism body deserves credit for winning the bid. We have singled out Gary Verity, who did a fantastic job leading the bid, but I would also like to mention Peter Dodd, who did a fantastic job supporting Gary along the way. They should be rightly proud of what they have done; they have turned a rank outsider into a winning bid, and they should be congratulated. Welcome to Yorkshire has a history of delivering success, winning the award for the world’s leading travel marketing campaign three years running and winning the award for Europe’s leading travel marketing campaign twice. It beat worldwide brands such as Expedia and Thomas Cook, tourism organisations such as Visit London, and countries such as Spain and Denmark.

It was only when I met Gary, Peter and their contacts from France to discuss the bid that I reckoned that Yorkshire had a serious chance of securing it. However, I was disappointed to receive a straight bat from the Government when I raised the prospect of supporting Yorkshire’s bid in the House before the summer. I was a little more disappointed that UK Sport did not appear to want to engage with the bid, not even with a supportive letter. Well, it looks like UK Sport backed the wrong horse.

The 5 and 6 July will be fantastic for the north of England, and particularly for Yorkshire, as Leeds will host the grand départ. Two stages of the Tour will need to go somewhere, and I hope the Amaury Sport Organisation, the race organiser, is listening to the debate; indeed, I am sure it is. I want briefly to make the case for part of the Tour to come to my area.

[Julian Smith]

In French.

[Nigel Adams]

I thought about giving the whole speech in French, but I decided, for reasons of expedience, to deliver it in English.

Selby has a fantastic cycling history. It also has links with France going back more than 950 years, and I will list a few. Members will be intrigued to hear that the town of Selby was founded by a French Benedictine monk—in fact, it was Benedict himself—in about 1067. The fourth son of William the Conqueror, who was French, of course, would go on to become King Henry I, and he was born in Selby, becoming the only English-born Norman monarch. Selby abbey’s patron saint is St Germain, who was based in Auxerre, and evidence suggests he visited Selby.

[Julian Smith]

Was St Germain a cyclist?

[Nigel Adams]

I do not believe he cycled, but the name of Garmancarr lane, which is in the village of Wistow, is a corruption of Germain’s carr. As I am sure my hon. Friend is aware, carr means low-lying washland. The lane’s name therefore suggests that St Germain held land in the Selby area.

The scientist Smithson Tennant was assisted in discovering two chemical elements in 1804 by two French chemists. Cochrane’s shipyard built many of the ships and supplied some of the barge men for the D-day landings, which made the liberation of France possible—mind you, we also built the ships that helped us defeat the French at Agincourt.

[Mr James Gray (in the Chair)]

Order. While I am hesitant to interrupt the hon. Gentleman’s speech, which I am very much enjoying, it might help hon. Members to know that six or seven Members still hope to speak. Therefore, it might be courteous if Members could keep their remarks as short as they reasonably can.

[Nigel Adams]

Mais oui, Mr Gray.

[Mr James Gray (in the Chair)]

No, not maybe—definitely. [Hon. Members: “No, ‘Mais oui.’”] Ah, mais oui.

[Nigel Adams]

The Tour de France last visited the UK in 2007, when London hosted the grand départ. It is estimated that the Tour brought £90 million to the capital and the south-east. It has been suggested that Yorkshire could benefit to the tune of over £100 million, and perhaps much more with the Government’s backing. As we have heard, the bid had the backing of local authorities, MPs from across the parties, the business community and the area’s people, 170,000 of whom signed the bid. The legacy plans are already being discussed. As we have heard, we are looking at delivering a bike bank and at improved investment in cycle lanes and infrastructure. I hope the Minister will take away the message that, having won the bid, Yorkshire could benefit from financial support in the run-up to the Tour. Although no funding was forthcoming during the bid, I can assure him that any help received now will produce an outstanding return on investment.

This is Yorkshire’s opportunity to welcome the world, and we will do it properly. With the recent success of British riders such as Bradley Wiggins, who became the first Briton to win the Tour, the popularity of cycling has never been higher. I myself have recently dusted down my old boneshaker, although I do not aspire to wear the yellow jersey. I am confident that this fantastic event will inspire more people to take up cycling and that millions of people will cheer on the champions of world cycling in our great county.

10:05

[Martin Vickers (Cleethorpes) (Con)]

It is a pleasure to take part in the debate under your chairmanship, Mr Gray. I, too, congratulate my hon. Friend the Member for Skipton and Ripon (Julian Smith) on securing it. I feel something of an intruder, as a Lincolnshire yellow belly, although my hon. Friend the Member for Brigg and Goole (Andrew Percy), who has one foot in Lincolnshire, has also come along to the debate.

On being elected to the House, I never anticipated that I would make a speech in favour of the Tour de France passing through Lincolnshire, so this is somewhat bizarre. The ideal route to get out of Yorkshire, should any of my colleagues wish to do so, is over the Humber bridge. That iconic construction would make a fantastic advert for the civil engineering skills of British industry.

My hon. Friend the Member for Skipton and Ripon mentioned that good things come out of Yorkshire, and I have to admit that that is occasionally true, as my wife is from Sheffield. In fact, she comes from a cycling family, and our recent research into our family history indicates that a great or a great-great-uncle—we are still working on it—cycled in the Olympics in the early 1920s, so there is a family connection to cycling.

As I mentioned, the ideal route for those heading south after the delights of the Yorkshire countryside would pass over the Humber bridge. It would then head to the winner of Britain in Bloom, and the east coast’s premier resort, Cleethorpes. From there, the beauty of the Lincolnshire wolds opens up—an area of outstanding natural beauty with magnificent landscapes. The route would then head towards the county town of Lincoln, with its magnificent cathedral high on the hill—it is perhaps even greater, dare I suggest, than York minster.

[Julian Sturdy]

I, like my hon. Friend, will make the case for my area. York is a great, historic city, and York minster will make an amazing backdrop for one of the stages of the Tour de France. However, the important thing across the region is not where the stages will be held, but the economic benefit to the north of England and, dare I say it, the country. Even Lancashire might benefit slightly—[Hon. Members: “Oh.”] I say that with a bit of trepidation. However, the important point is the economic benefit the Tour will bring across the region and the country, and I urge everyone, including the Government, to back it.

[Martin Vickers]

I welcome my hon. Friend’s intervention. He knows the glories of Cleethorpes, having travelled there only a few months ago in support of my local party, so he can testify to the town’s magnificence. He is quite right to draw attention to the fact that the Tour is a great opportunity to boost our local economies, and I urge all the agencies—tourism boards, local authorities and local enterprise partnerships—to get together and to work closely with the Government and sporting organisations. This is a tremendous opportunity to give a much needed boost to some areas of northern England.

If we can pull this off and get the tour to pass not only through the great county of Yorkshire, but down into Lincolnshire, that will again emphasise the closeness of their links. I urge the Government to co-ordinate every possible agency to work on that so that we can benefit the whole economy.

10:10

[Andrew Jones (Harrogate and Knaresborough) (Con)]

I congratulate my hon. Friend the Member for Skipton and Ripon (Julian Smith) on securing the debate, so that we can celebrate the success. It is excellent news that in 2014 we will welcome the grand départ into Yorkshire. It is a wonderful end to a wonderful sporting year. I also add my congratulations to Gary Verity and the Welcome to Yorkshire team, on the work they did to secure the bid.

The tour is one of the great sporting spectacles of the world, and it is a real coup for it to be coming to Yorkshire. I agree with my hon. Friend the Member for Selby and Ainsty (Nigel Adams) that we started the bidding process as outsiders. I know that the tour has visited other countries for its grand départ before, but it has not been in the UK since 2007, and it will be the culmination of a wonderful year for cycling in the UK. The success will bring our county significant benefits in three areas: business, tourism and sporting opportunity.

As to business, huge numbers—predicted to be in the millions—will come to watch and stage the event, which will provide huge inward investment. For tourism the opportunity is slightly longer term. I am a proud Yorkshireman and I know that we have the most beautiful county in the country. We are not called God’s county for nothing. The landscape of Yorkshire will provide a spectacular backdrop for the varied racing: great climbs and sprints, and the great TV that the tour always makes, which the organisers are adept at providing. I am sure, also, that that showcase will add to tourism demand well after the peloton has moved on. We also have a great sporting opportunity—to encourage people to start cycling, to highlight our area for cyclists, to create more cycle routes and to show that cycling is both good for you and fun. There are not many things that that can be said about.

[Mr Gerry Sutcliffe (Bradford South) (Lab)]

I am delighted that the hon. Gentleman speaks of cycling as he does, because it has led the way, in the context of how sports are viewed. Cycling was going nowhere, but it has now become a fantastic competitive sport that we do wonderfully well at, across the gamut, and people enjoy all forms of cycling. The point is well made.

[Andrew Jones]

I agree that cycling presents fantastic opportunities to participate at an elite or social level. It is a spectacular sport for people to get involved in. The question now is the route that the tour will take. The correct answer is of course through Harrogate before heading off to Knaresborough, and then Boroughbridge and various other villages. We have a great claim to be part of the route because Harrogate and Knaresborough is one of the spiritual homes of cycling in the UK. You may not realise, Mr Gray, that the Cyclists Touring Club was founded in Harrogate, and a plaque in the town centre commemorates that event. It was founded as the Bicycle Touring Club on 5 August 1878, before being renamed the Cyclists Touring Club a few years later, to accommodate tricycles. Beryl Burton, who I am sure hon. Members will know was five times world champion for individual pursuit, used to race for Knaresborough.

Cycling in Harrogate and Knaresborough has grown almost exponentially in the past few years, with groups such as Wheel Easy leading some of that demand. I hope that the winning of the bid will mean that we take the opportunity to increase investment in cycling, by giving it more weight in transport planning and giving more encouragement to younger cyclists. We need improved cycling facilities to be built into plans for major development—especially commercial ones and expanding transport hubs. We have the opportunity to make a lasting difference to cycling across the county and the country.

The competition for the grand départ was extremely intense. Le bid was a great piece of work. We owe thanks and congratulations to all the team who delivered it. Let us hope that it will inspire future generations. Part of that will be the encouragement of future success through participation in cycling. That will be the legacy of this win.

10:09

[Andrew Percy (Brigg and Goole) (Con)]

It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship today, Mr Gray. I pay tribute to my hon. Friend the Member for Skipton and Ripon (Julian Smith) for securing the debate and for the work that he and others have done on the bid. I pay tribute, too, to Welcome to Yorkshire, which I believe is the only tourism body in the UK that receives no Government funding. It does a fantastic job for our county and region, promoting them both within the UK and internationally. We have heard in the past few minutes how successfully it has done that.

I want to echo my colleagues’ call for the Government to get behind this race now, because potentially it will have a dramatic impact on the local economy. We certainly need that now. I look forward to welcoming the race, wherever it goes in Yorkshire. However, it would be wrong of me not to extol the virtues of the beautiful East Riding of Yorkshire—and, indeed, north Lincolnshire, as I have, as my hon. Friend the Member for Cleethorpes (Martin Vickers) said, a foot in both camps. I live, however, in the East Riding of Yorkshire—not that I favour either, of course. We would love a stage of the race to come to the East Riding of Yorkshire, and, indeed, within a few minutes of the announcement, I was e-mailed by people asking whether we could get the race to our area. Councillors John Barrett and Caroline Fox, who represent the Snaith, Airmyn, Rawcliffe and Marshland ward, in my constituency, put to me a detailed plan of how the route could come from Selby via the A19, the A645 or the A1041 down into Snaith.

[Stuart Andrew (Pudsey) (Con)]

Does my hon. Friend agree that if the riders went in that direction they would miss the opportunity to come to the Pudsey constituency? Despite the danger of turning the event into the Tour de Yorkshire, I must point out that they would miss the opportunity of seeing the home of real Yorkshire fish and chips, which was of course Harry Ramsden’s based in Guiseley—now run excellently by Wetherby Whaler.

[Andrew Percy]

I think, as we say in Parliament, my hon. Friend has made his point.

As I was saying, I received a detailed proposal about how, coming from Selby, the race could come through Snaith into Goole. We had a fantastic day when the Olympic torch came to Goole. As my hon. Friend the Member for Skipton and Ripon mentioned, the crowds in Yorkshire were twice the size of those in the rest of the country. On the morning that we welcomed the torch to Goole, I could not believe how many people had come to support the event. The race could come down and across into the beauties of the rest of the East Riding and over the wolds. My hon. Friend the Member for Beverley and Holderness (Mr Stuart), who cannot be here today because he is chairing the Select Committee on Education, supports that idea. The route could then go across the Humber bridge, which is free to cycles—and £1.50 for cars. It used to be £3, but the Government provided the cash to halve that, following a strong campaign by me and my hon. Friend the Member for Cleethorpes. Then it could go across and round Scunthorpe, and back into south Yorkshire—although my hon. Friend did a wonderful job of trying to steal the entire race for Lincolnshire.

Those are a couple of proposals, but as other hon. Members have said, wherever the route goes in our region, the race will be well supported and a huge success. If it does not come to my constituency or our area, we will get behind it just the same. When we put the press releases out for the petition, several residents contacted me to say they would sign up and get behind the cause. We are all on the same page in our region on the matter. It is a fantastic region and everyone has said how beautiful it is; I do not need to repeat that. I thought that we were going to have a gradient argument earlier, about which area had the biggest. Sadly, I cannot win on gradients, representing as I do the former marshland of Brigg and Goole, but we have a mix of wide open spaces, the coastline, rolling hills and the steep hills of the Pennines. We have got all we need to make the event successful.

I congratulate everyone behind the bid on their work. It is staggering in many ways that it was done by volunteers, and I hope we get Government support. Having made a bid and a pitch for my own patch to be part of the event, I hope that, if not the Tour de France—perhaps it should be the Tour to t’France if it is coming to Yorkshire—future events that we would hope to attract to our region could come to the Brigg and Goole constituency.

I look forward to hearing how the Minister will get behind the event and get full Government support, with perhaps even a bit of cash as well. Being Yorkshire folk, we are a bit tight with our own money, so we would like some from the Government. The event will be fantastic for our region—I think we all agree that its impact on our economy will be pretty big—and I again pay tribute to my hon. Friend the Member for Skipton and Ripon for securing the debate.

10:20

[Jason McCartney (Colne Valley) (Con)]

It is an absolute honour to serve under your chairmanship, Mr Gray. I congratulate my hon. Friend the Member for Skipton and Ripon (Julian Smith) on securing this important debate and on being instrumental in forming the all-party group, which will massively support this exciting venture. I add my thanks to Gary Verity, Peter Dodd and all the team at Welcome to Yorkshire, and also to Tom Riordan. They have had amazing vision, and determination to win the bid, against all the odds, for Yorkshire. This really is an exciting time for our part of the world.

I am not surprised by the interest shown here this morning. There are, I think, a dozen coalition Back Benchers here, and it is amazing to see so much support. The support and interest are not surprising, however, because we all know that cycling is the new rock and roll, and on Sunday evening I had a quick chat with its current lead singer, Bradley Wiggins, at the BBC sports personality of the year awards. I raised the prospect of his cycling in Yorkshire on the Tour in 2014. I will not repeat exactly what he said—we have to remember, of course, that he comes from Lancashire way—but he indicated that he is really looking forward to cycling in Yorkshire.

We have a great history and heritage of cycling in Yorkshire. For example, did Members know that the first British stage winner of the Tour was the now 82-year-old Brian Robinson from Mirfield near Huddersfield? When I announced to some people last week that the Tour de France was coming to Yorkshire, a number of them said, “Tour de France, coming to Yorkshire? How can that work?”, but this will not be the first time that it has come to the UK. The Tour has already visited England three times, and each time the event has got bigger and better. It all started in 1974 with one stage on the Plymouth bypass. In 1994 there were two stages on the south coast and, as many Members have already mentioned, the grand départ came to London in 2007, with a time trial plus one road stage. We now have the grand départ coming to Yorkshire in 2014. It is estimated that Ken Livingstone invested £3.5 million in the 2007 bid, and London got a financial return in excess of £85 million.

[Greg Mulholland]

I want to reiterate a point I made earlier that ties in perfectly with that. London will once again host the event, but it has not put a penny in. That is fine, because Yorkshire won the bid, but if that is not an argument for Yorkshire getting some investment from central Government in London, I do not know what is.

[Jason McCartney]

My hon. Friend is absolutely right. When we talk about investing money, the issue is the kind of return we will get, and that is why I made that point. The event will be excellent value for money. For each pound put in, the multiples that we can get back for the local economy and tourism will be amazing.

Yorkshire could gain—we have heard this figure already —in excess of £300 million in direct revenue, plus masses of media exposure and subsequent tourism benefits. Some 3.6 million people in Britain watched the live coverage of Bradley Wiggins’ historic win on the Tour this year. With more than 1,500 hours broadcast in more than 160 countries and an estimated TV audience of 2 billion viewers worldwide, the Tour de France has reached truly global proportions; that is what Yorkshire can look forward to in 2014. As well as benefits to tourism resulting from spectators, teams and the whole tour entourage coming here, there will of course be the focus of the world’s media from now until 2014, and the opportunity to highlight our area as a place for cyclists to come to and ride in, either on their own or on organised rides.

We have yet to have the route confirmed, but I will continue to bang the drum—as many colleagues have this morning—for the route to sweep through my constituency, the beautiful Colne Valley. We have a gruelling gradient—the picturesque hill climb up to Holme Moss on the Pennines—and TV cameras would relish the opportunity to show off that picturesque Pennines panorama to the world. Holme Moss has already featured in the Tour of Britain and the Leeds classic road races. I remember standing outside the Red Lion pub in Jackson Bridge, where I lived with my family, watching the peloton swish past on the Tour of Britain in the 1990s. After the demise of the BBC’s “Last of the Summer Wine” TV series, which brought tourism to the Holme valley, this exciting and now prominent sport can help to re-energise the local tourism economy in my constituency.

My area has booming cycling participation, helped in no small way by the series of “pedal for pounds” charity bike rides organised by Huddersfield Town football club. Last year, I joined 168 charity cyclists in raising £200,000 for the Yorkshire air ambulance and the Huddersfield Town youth academy, as we cycled the 300 miles from Huddersfield to Brighton over three days. This year, even more cyclists took on the challenge and cycled from Yeovil back to Huddersfield.

My constituency is ready and all fired up to help to make the 2014 Tour de France grand départ just as successful as this year’s Olympic games, if not more so, and to leave a lasting legacy of participation and investment in the local Yorkshire community and the Yorkshire economy. Vive le Tour, and vive le Yorkshire!

10:26

[Clive Efford (Eltham) (Lab)]

It is a pleasure to join in this debate under your chairmanship, Mr Gray. I congratulate the hon. Member for Skipton and Ripon (Julian Smith) on securing the debate. As has been said, congratulations are due all round, including, obviously, to Yorkshire for pulling off a coup in winning the bid from under the noses of British Cycling and UK Sport.

I agree with the hon. Member for Leeds North West (Greg Mulholland) that it should not be forgotten that although the event will end in London—and the Mayor of London has welcomed that—this is very much Yorkshire’s bid and Yorkshire’s success. It is an example of what sport can achieve in generating economic activity away from the south-east. It is an enormous opportunity for Yorkshire—and the surrounding areas, as we have heard—to benefit from sport and bring in business, tourism and economic investment. Members who have spoken so far have shown no shortage of determination to achieve that, on the back of the bid.

Congratulations are due to Gary Verity, and to the chief executive of Leeds city council, who must be extraordinarily pleased that his city will host the grand départ of the Tour in 2014. I welcome the fact that there will be an all-party group, because the sporting event will gain enormously from Members of this House working together to maximise the benefits that the Tour can bring to Yorkshire and the surrounding areas. I hope that the group will be based on the Tour, rather than on Yorkshire, so that Members who want to participate and put their case can do so.

[Greg Mulholland]

The hon. Gentleman is absolutely right. My colleague, the hon. Member for Skipton and Ripon (Julian Smith), and I had a meeting before this debate. As soon as the Tour details are announced on 7 January, we absolutely want people from all around the route to get behind the Tour being in the UK.

[Clive Efford]

I am grateful for those comments, which are reassuring. I assumed that that would be the case, and that we would all want to make the most of this tremendous sporting event, which comes on the back of not only an incredible year for British sport—I could spend the next half hour listing the successes in British sport in this golden year of 2012—with the Olympics and Paralympics, but outstanding success for cycling. Over the past decade, cycling has shown the way for other sports, as regards not only how to succeed at the elite end, thereby inspiring participation at all levels, but how to create a base of participation at grass-roots level.

In the Active People survey published two weeks ago, the figures for cycling stood out because of the success in steadily increasing weekly participation over a sustained period. Nearly 2 million people a week participate in regular cycling activity, which is a phenomenal achievement for cycling. Quite rightly, cycling has been recognised for that achievement in Sport England’s allocation of money, which was announced this week: there is to be a substantial increase to £32 million. That allocation recognises that cycling can deliver. Cycling has not only been successful in the past; the process of allocating money through Sport England is about what cycling intends to do in the future. The allocation is very much about all sports’ plans, and cycling clearly has something to contribute in the future, as regards increasing participation.

We have heard from hon. Members about the bid for the Tour to go to Yorkshire, and part of that bid was the proposal that cycling banks be set up across the community. I have been involved with a group that has got together entirely on its own initiative. In my constituency, people are enthusiastic about cycling, and the group will set up a cycling bank so that young people—indeed, people of any age—who do not have access to a bike can go cycling. More importantly, they are providing bikes adapted for people with disabilities, so that they, too, can enjoy the sport—sometimes with the assistance of other members of the club, cycling for them—on bikes that are specially adapted to take wheelchairs. Cycling is a growing area of sport, physical activity and community participation, and I am sure that the cycling banks played a significant part in the success of the Yorkshire bid.

[Andrew Percy]

The hon. Gentleman reminds me of something I forgot to say in my speech. He is right that the number of young people getting involved in cycling is growing massively. A couple of days ago, I hosted a meeting with 11-year-olds Rory Kershaw and Ben Lapish, who have come up with a proposal for expanding the trans-Pennine cycleway to our area. That demonstrates that many young people are passionate about cycling as a result of our recent victories.

[Clive Efford]

I am glad that I gave the hon. Gentleman that opportunity to finish his speech, and I am sure that the young men are grateful for his comment. I say that in the spirit of today’s debate.

I will not go through the list of colleagues who have spoken, because I am sure the Minister will want to mention every contribution. There were many questions for him to answer. The bid was entirely independent of UK Sport and British Cycling, and with that in mind, I sincerely hope that all parties involved can come together to discuss how we can get the best for the UK out of the significant, fantastic sporting event that is coming our way. UK Sport has an enormous amount of experience in organising and running major international sporting events, and its contribution will be significant. I am sure that UK Sport is willing to put behind it any differences there may have been over which preferred bid should have been supported, and to discuss the event with the organisers to ensure that it goes forwards. I know that is the same for British Cycling. As many of our top British cyclists supported the Yorkshire bid, I am sure there will be a swift coming together. Regardless of whether there was any significant difference of opinion, everyone will now be moving in the same direction and seeking to ensure that the event is an enormous success.

I cannot resist referring to the intervention of the hon. Member for Pudsey (Stuart Andrew), who extolled the virtues of fish and chips from his constituency; I assume that they will now be known as fish and French fries. I am sorry, but the temptation was just too great.

I sincerely wish every success for the event. Every one of us will work together to make it an enormous success, and not just for Yorkshire. The event is a well deserved success for Yorkshire, and it is an enormous shop window, as were the Olympics and Paralympics, to show off the UK. With London 2012, we successfully encouraged more visitors to come to the UK and more people to consider the UK as a place to do business. A survey published today by the British Council suggests that that is one of the major successes of 2012. A major international sporting event on the scale of the Tour de France, starting in Yorkshire and travelling south towards London, will be another enormous sporting event for this country, and hopefully it will be the start of an event that brings even more sporting success for this country. I am sure that all of us, working together, will achieve that success and bring benefits to the UK that will be sustainable in the long term.

10:29

[The Minister of State, Department for Culture, Media and Sport (Hugh Robertson)]

I start by congratulating my hon. Friend the Member for Skipton and Ripon (Julian Smith) on securing this debate and on the way that he and other hon. Members have conducted it. The debate has been quite a lot of fun, which is a very good start.

I also welcome the formation of the all-party group, which, particularly given how things have developed, will be incredibly important, as the hon. Member for Eltham (Clive Efford) said, in bringing together disparate groups in order to make the event the success that it undoubtedly should be.

I will go through the various contributions and try to answer the questions that have been raised, but I will start with a few general remarks. I genuinely say this, and I have no worries at all: I congratulate Yorkshire wholeheartedly on pulling off the bid. To me it does not matter whether people wish to engage with the Government and Government agencies when making bids; what matters is who wins at the end. I absolutely, 100% congratulate Yorkshire on a stunning triumph. I may not have helped Yorkshire very much—I think my sole contribution was nearly standing on a Yorkshire terrier on the Champs-Elysées in July—but it was clear then, and in the way the bid was conducted, that Yorkshire was on to something that others possibly had not picked up. I wholeheartedly congratulate Yorkshire on that achievement.

There are a number of good years for cycling in front of us, and I will come on to that, but 2014 is an important year for this country any way with the Commonwealth games coming to Glasgow a month or so after the Tour de France, which will fit into the calendar very well.

Given the comments on the Olympics, I ought to congratulate Yorkshire on its contribution to London 2012, not only, as a number of hon. Members said, with the huge numbers of people who turned out to watch the torch, but with the number of Yorkshire athletes who secured medals during the competition. At the end of the first week, the joke doing the rounds was that Australia was being beaten in the medal table by both Yorkshire and Millfield school. At that stage, looking at the birthplaces of the athletes, Yorkshire was about fifth or sixth in the medal table, so it made a considerable contribution to the sporting summer, as would be expected from a county with such sporting tradition.

The hon. Member for Eltham touched on this, but while we are on the subject it is worth paying tribute to the work of British Cycling. No other sport in this country combines excellence at the top end with participation. The medal tally from London 2012 is extraordinarily impressive, given the dual achievement of winning the Tour and delivering medals across Olympic and Paralympic sports. Sarah Storey is now the most decorated Paralympian in Britain’s history. Our cyclists are an extraordinary success story. If we look at what they achieved in the Olympics and the Tour, they were the predominant sport at the BBC awards on Sunday night: not only did Bradley Wiggins win, of course, but David Brailsford, the performance director, picked up the coach of the year award.

More than 2 million people cycle regularly. Dave Brailsford told me that he thinks more than 500,000 people have taken up the sport since our success in Beijing. As the hon. Member for Eltham correctly said, that has been recognised by Sport England, which has given a record award in the recent whole sport plans.

On major events, it is fantastic that the Tour is coming to Yorkshire in 2014, but Yorkshire has all sorts of opportunities to star next year as well. The rugby league world cup will be important to the county, and the Ashes are here as well. I am looking at my hon. Friend the Member for Selby and Ainsty (Nigel Adams); I cannot remember whether Headingley stadium is still being redeveloped—

[Nigel Adams]

indicated assent.

[Hugh Robertson]

It is, so it has not got one of the tests. Yorkshire athletes will be involved in the world rowing championships and the world triathlon series, which will be held here next year, and possibly even in the champions league final, which is due to be held at Wembley next year. There is a lot for Yorkshire to look forward to.

I will run through the points raised, dealing first with the general ones. Can I nail a point that is taking off about it being a Government decision to back the Scottish bid? It is not a Government decision to back any of the bids. It is rare to have two competing bids for a sports event from the same country. Normally, the country sorts things out itself and uses whatever bid is most likely to succeed.

[John Healey (Wentworth and Dearne) (Lab)]

I congratulate the hon. Member for Skipton and Ripon (Julian Smith) on securing this debate. It is helpful to have the Minister confirm clearly that the Government did not back the Scottish bid, but if that was the case, will he now back the Yorkshire bid, and if so, how?

[Hugh Robertson]

I will come to that in a moment, but I want to ensure that people understand that the money that sits behind the backing of the bids is awarded by UK Sport, the lottery distributor on the Government’s behalf. As it is lottery money, it does not lie within the Government’s remit to allocate it directly. To do so would contravene the regulations in the National Lottery Act 2006. We can tell and have told UK Sport to increase the amount of money available—£27 million, financed by the changes to lottery shares introduced shortly after May 2010—but it does not lie in this or any other Government’s remit to then allocate that money to specific projects. To do so would break the additionality principle.

[Greg Mulholland]

I must bring the Minister’s attention to the worrying statement published yesterday by UK Sport that says, unless I have misunderstood it:

“UK Sport will consider providing Lottery funding towards the bidding costs”

and

“staging costs of strategically important major events with a clear and demonstrable financial need. Investment will only be considered prior to bids being submitted and investment is made at UK Sport’s discretion.”

That sounds as if UK Sport is saying, “Well, you’ve won it now; we’re not going to back it.” That cannot be right. It would be absurd.

[Hugh Robertson]

Let me explain it to the hon. Gentleman. It is not absurd. It is a different sort of event, because it is not run by the International Cycling Union, the governing body that regulates world cycling, but by a private company. That puts it on a slightly different footing. I will come in a minute to what we can do to help.

The reason why UK Sport does not allow a free-for-all is that if it did, people would just bid on their own and then turn around and ask Government to fund it. That policy has remained unchanged through successive Governments since the formation of the lottery, and there are good reasons for it. The major events panel at UK Sport is full of people who understand the issues, including David Collier, chief executive of the England and Wales Cricket Board, who knows his way around major sports, as the results this week show. The board considers events, prioritises them and then sees how much support it can give.

We just launched the gold event series, which contains all the rules. The rules are there for good reasons, and they have produced a record number of major events. For the year 2015 alone, apart from the rugby world cup, we have secured the world artistic gymnastics championships, the world canoeing championships, the European hockey championships, the European eventing championships, the world rowing championships and the International Paralympic Committee world swimming championships. It is a successful and well-tuned machine. Clearly, something did not go right this time around, but that does not mean that the whole system is broken.

Moving to what the Government can do, I will absolutely ensure that UK Sport engages proactively with the bid team. It would help if the all-party group and MPs here in the Chamber took that message back. There was some indication that for commercial reasons, the bid team did not want to open up its books and show people what it was doing. Now that the bid is won, it is time for everybody to come together and work to deliver a successful bid. For my part, as the Minister, I will ensure that UK Sport offers the necessary technical support to help the work and bring British Cycling on board. I am sure that there will be no problems worth noting with that. It also backed the other bid, but we will ensure that the British sporting landscape is lined up behind the Yorkshire bid, and we will consider what can be done further. It will not happen, though, unless the bid team is now prepared to share all its financial details and various undertakings with UK Sport.

[Julian Smith]

I welcome the Minister’s offer to engage with the Yorkshire team. Can a meeting take place with him, me and the Yorkshire team to ensure that we frame things correctly for the months ahead?

[Hugh Robertson]

I am happy to give that undertaking, subject—as Ministers always say—to sorting out the diary. The beginning of next year is a pretty busy time, and I would not want it to drift back into February or March due to the difficulties of finding a spot. It would be a great help if he and others played a part in bringing that together.

It is a fantastic triumph; the challenge is how to take it forward from here. One thing I have learned from the 2012 process is that the successful delivery of major events rests largely on the strength of the partnerships created.

[John Healey]

What the Minister is saying is encouraging. I say to him and to the hon. Member for Skipton and Ripon that he has indicated that the all-party nature of the issue is important. On the Labour side, my hon. Friend the Member for Leeds East (Mr Mudie) and I are more than prepared to play a part in making the event a success in Yorkshire and for the country.

[Hugh Robertson]

I am grateful for that. We spent a lot of time during the autumn going around the world giving lectures on why London 2012 succeeded, and the first point in the lectures was the value of cross-party support. Amazingly, for a project so complex and difficult, it held from the period before the bid, in 2003-04, right through to 2012. As I often do, I pay enormous tribute to the work done by the right hon. Member for Dulwich and West Norwood (Dame Tessa Jowell), who played a key part. Whatever may or may not have happened in the bid, it is important that we move forward as one from here.

To run through the various points raised by hon. Members, I hope that I have covered most of the points mentioned by my hon. Friend the Member for Skipton and Ripon. It is worth having a look at the publication called the “Gold Event Series”, which lays out clearly what UK Sport can and cannot do. It is a fantastic document. As I said, he should bear in mind that whatever may or may not have happened on this occasion, the team responsible for delivery in UK Sport has produced a list of events coming to this country the like of which we have never seen. It is a high-grade operation and has done well.

I pay tribute to the work done by the hon. Member for Leeds North West (Greg Mulholland) on the rugby league world cup, and I thank him for it. It will be a great success not only for the country but for Yorkshire. He spoke about the Leeds angle and made some points about London. Now that the bid is secured, this would be an extraordinarily good time to approach the Mayor’s office and his major events department to see precisely what financial muscle can be brought to bear.

My hunch is that the Yorkshire team must have presented a balanced budget for the whole event to secure it. In my experience, it is inconceivable that such events are ever awarded if there are holes in the budget. So the contribution from London, which must have been covered somehow in that bid, will be important. If there is not a London contribution thus far, I suggest that that ought to be investigated.

My hon. Friend the Member for Selby and Ainsty talked about UK Sport support. I hope that I have covered that.

The evaluation of this sort of thing is done independently, because lottery money is involved, through an organisation called the major events panel, on which people such as David Collier sit. That panel generally makes good decisions. It was frustrated that it was not given enough access early on to make a balanced decision. I suspect that there is little point raking this matter over now. Congratulations to Yorkshire on winning. The real issue is how we move forward together from here.

[Julian Smith]

I agree that we should move forward now. Will the Minister ask officials to clarify how many people on that board, making decisions for the big event, come from the north, so that for the future we are getting a broad representation of our whole country?

[Hugh Robertson]

I could do that. Certainly, as with all UK Sport decisions, the home nations are represented because it is a UK body. Under the terms in which it was set up, there will necessarily be representation from Northern Ireland, Wales and Scotland, and there will be a group of members, some of whom will be independent and others who will not be, from this part of the world. I am not sure that there is a lot to be gained by raking over the coals in respect of where this went wrong, given the special nature of this bid involving a private organisation, and so on. British Cycling, which is not renowned for making mistakes, appears to have backed another bid because, as it told me, it could not get sight of the Yorkshire proposals early enough to make a decision.

My hon. Friend the Member for Harrogate and Knaresborough (Andrew Jones) talked about transport planning, which is a fascinating issue. I suspect that, looking forward a couple of years from now at the extraordinary success of cycling and at the regrettably large number of people still being killed in collisions, we are getting close to a crossover point where there is such demand for cycling, in terms of closing roads and running amateur races at the weekend, that something pretty dramatic will have to happen. We will have to have a fairly major change of policy. If events such as this help to bring that about, that can only be a good thing.

My hon. Friend the Member for Brigg and Goole (Andrew Percy) spoke up for his constituency, as did my hon. Friend the Member for Colne Valley (Jason McCartney). I think that the hon. Member for Eltham spoke for all hon. Members in his remarks about cycling.

Just to wrap it up, unless hon. Members want me to say anything in particular, I should like genuinely to congratulate Yorkshire. I am delighted, as UK Sports Minister, that we have secured another important, worthwhile major event. The team that pulled this off deserve all our congratulations. That said—I have learned this through London 2012—the successful delivery of a sports event of any size depends on the strength of the relationships and partnerships that are created. That is difficult. There were times in the run-up to 2012 when we had to bite our lips and wanted to lash out at somebody who was being frustrating, or we were getting a bit fed up with the bureaucracy or the time it took to do something. I am afraid that that is in the DNA of successful delivery of such events. It is important that the all-party group in particular advocates for the strength of the relationships and partnerships that will be needed to deliver this.

The key thing is that everybody, from this point forward, does everything possible. I assure all hon. Members in this Chamber that Government, UK Sport and British Cycling will do everything possible to ensure that this is a great success for Yorkshire and, I hope, one of the great grand départs of the Tour de France.

Cornwall (Government Funding)

Tuesday 18th December 2012 Westminster Hall

10:54

[Dan Rogerson (North Cornwall) (LD)]

It is a pleasure to speak under your chairmanship, Mr Gray. I am delighted to see the Minister in the Chamber and am grateful for his presence.

My topic is funding, generally, across Departments for public services in Cornwall and investment in it. The Duchy of Cornwall is peripheral to the rest of the United Kingdom, although it could be argued that the rest of the United Kingdom is peripheral to Cornwall, as I would tend to, in reference to the headline about the continent being cut off by fog. Cornwall has a proud history of independent spirit, resourcefulness and, surprisingly to some, given its rural nature, was one of the early areas in which the industrial revolution took place. Mining in particular and engineering in mining, and ideas from that, were exported—as were the miners—around the world. People of Cornish descent are found in South Africa, south Australia and Mexico, where the links between Cornwall and parts of Mexico where silver mining was undertaken by Cornish miners have recently been rekindled. Hon. Members will be delighted to know that they can buy a pasty in those parts of Mexico, although the fillings are slightly different from those we are used to in the traditional Cornish variety.

The population of Cornwall is just over 500,000. The recent census data show that people were keen to mark their Cornish identity. I am delighted that the Office for National Statistics allowed people to do that last time, although there was no tick box, despite my best efforts. Even though they had to know to tick “Other” and write it, more than 80,000 people, not all of whom were in Cornwall, decided to do that.

There is a significant population in a peripheral location that is, although the history of Cornwall is not just about the rural idyll, in many cases dispersed across the peninsula. There are challenges to providing services that are also experienced by other rural areas. Traditionally, there has been a lot of investment and involvement in primary resource-based industries, such as mining, fishing and farming, and also in engineering and manufacturing. There are still innovative manufacturers. There is now a lot more food processing in the area, which seeks to add value to the food that is grown. The manufacturer Zoeftig, a business in my constituency, makes airport seating that is also used in bus stations, and so on, all over the world, including in Australia. It was recently looking at contracts in the middle east and far east. All hon. Members should welcome the fact that a company in my constituency is exporting to China.

Tourism is important, too. The quality of the tourist offer has improved greatly. The food has changed beyond all recognition from the image of British food generally in the 1970s. The food manufactured in and exported from Cornwall is a strong brand and the restaurants are one of the many reasons that people holiday there.

We seek to benefit from the creative industries. Investment in broadband in Cornwall allows people to undertake such aspects of work far more. People relocate to Cornwall for the quality of life, bringing their businesses and creativity with them, which is all to the good.

Cornwall has received European structural fund money, first, through the objective 1 programme and, more recently, through convergence. That has had an effect and post-2013 we will, potentially, be in line for more of that European funding, although the details will have to be negotiated between the Government and the European Union. That is not something that we are proud of, but it is a stated fact that the European Union recognises the position of Cornwall and the need for extra investment to allow it to catch up with other parts of the United Kingdom. The Government have also recognised that, most recently in the Chancellor’s autumn statement announcement on investment in infrastructure.

We are delighted that the A30 at Temple will be upgraded in the next few years and that the local authority are matching the money invested by Government through the Department for Transport, meaning that that infamous bottleneck, known by those who have visited Cornwall, will be dealt with. This is all to the good. However, a trend across many decades—it is not a new phenomenon; it has been there for a long time—is that various public services in Cornwall have received less public funding than those in other parts of the country. Historically, school per pupil funding, towards the tail end of the previous Parliament, was about £300 to £350 less than the national average.

We have similar problems with the grant from the Department for Communities and Local Government. In theory, we have a fair allocation but, historically, it does not take into account rurality, which is a key element for us across a range of services. The cost of providing services is increased because—as you may be familiar with in Wiltshire, Mr Gray—the dispersed populations mean that we have to replicate some services in a number of small market towns.

In policing, we ought to look at the issue of visitor numbers, which are not taken into account in the policing formula. There have been problems in Newquay—part of my constituency in the previous Parliament, but now in the neighbouring constituency of my hon. Friend the Member for St Austell and Newquay (Stephen Gilbert)—which receives a big influx of young people in the summer. Huge steps have been taken to overcome some of the problems, but the costs of such initiatives are not reflected in the policing grant.

In policing as in other areas, the formula predicts that Cornwall ought to receive a certain amount of money, but it does not get it, so the infamous damping process comes into play. Although a distance from target is recognised, we never quite reach it because it is too difficult to take away money from overfunded areas to give it to underfunded ones. Last week, my hon. Friend the Member for St Ives (Andrew George) secured a debate on the specific aspect of health funding in Cornwall. He pointed out that from 2006 to 2012, according to Government figures, Cornwall was in receipt of £201 million less than the target. The money has gone up and there has been investment, but we are still a distance away from where we should be.

The funding formula is the first port of call for any MP looking at how his or her area is affected and at whether it is disadvantaged in some way. The key elements, which I have referred to in part, are worth exploring.

First, on deprivation, the funding formulas throughout the various Departments tend to look at the high cost of providing services to reach deeper into such communities and to support their people to achieve what they should be achieving and to overcome barriers. Deprivation is readily identified in the larger urban areas so, historically, Governments have tended to put money into those areas—quite rightly—to deal with their problems. In an area such as Cornwall, however, deprivation is sometimes harder to see. People who come on holiday will see the beautiful coast and what they imagine to be an idyllic lifestyle, but they are not as familiar with the low incomes or the high housing costs, in part driven by the large number of second homes. As the census figures revealed, Cornwall is by far the local authority area with the highest number of second homes, and that has a real impact on the housing market.

Historically, peripherality has been an issue with regard to transport costs. Although the level of aspiration might have been low in the past, I am delighted to say that that is changing: most Cornish families aspire hugely to see their young people do well. In many cases that means leaving Cornwall and going to do things elsewhere, which is fine—it is all part of the experience of growing up—but it would be good if there were opportunities for those young people to come back, relocate and bring their skills with them.

The second issue is sparsity. To provide a decent level of service, it must be provided not only in a central, readily accessible location but replicated in several market towns throughout the area, adding to the cost. In difficult times, when the public sector must do things as efficiently as possible, it might retract a little to core areas and expect users to travel greater distances to access services. Some people are in a position to travel those greater distances, but some are not.

The geography of Cornwall is such that on three sides, at three points of the compass, there is water. We cannot call many neighbours across the border to help. If there is an incident or problem, we have the border with Devon and that is it. Cornwall also gives support and help to the neighbouring authority of the Isles of Scilly, whose choices of where to go, what to do and who to call on are even more limited than ours. Peripherality, therefore, has a direct effect, such as for fire and rescue services. The delightful county of Bedfordshire, where I lived for a number of years, is centrally located and so, if there is an incident, it can call on neighbouring forces for help, but we cannot do that in Cornwall, other than for help for those on the rural border with Devon.

The first port of call for a lobbying MP is to consider the funding formula, which is what we are doing. I have been working alongside the hon. Member for Beverley and Holderness (Mr Stuart), the Chair of the Select Committee on Education, in his examination of the issue of rural funding and rurality. We have asked Government, across Departments, about what they might do to reflect better our circumstances on the ground. We have had some success, and I am delighted that the coalition Government have made steps in that direction, looking at school funding to deal with unfairness and at how rurality can be reflected in localisation of business rates. So, success, wonderful, problem solved! However, we then come back to the dreadful damping business.

I accept that when money and investment in the public sector are restricted, it is harder to deal with the issue than at times of more cash being about, when one can ensure that areas that are behind catch up a little more quickly with areas that are ahead of where they should be. Unfortunately, such levelling-off did not happen under the previous Government when money was going in and they seemed to feel that a lot of it was around, so the gap remained. Now the coalition is having to deal with the deficit and to take some difficult funding decisions, so I accept that things are harder. My constituents, and those in other areas of the country with similar problems, expect a direction of travel according to which funding begins to approach where the target says we should be.

I called for the debate and asked for a Treasury Minister to respond because a number of Departments have a similar problem. Rather than have the same debate several times, I was hoping to suggest to the Minister that, when he talks to his hon. Friends in other Departments and has difficult discussions about the amount of money available and using it efficiently to get the most impact from investment in public services, he should say on the issue of damping, “We are giving you this money to deliver services throughout the country. You have quite rightly reviewed the formula by which you allocate that money to ensure that areas are getting what they need, what is fair and what constituents presumably feel entitled to. Also, where there is a gap between that target and the reality, there needs to be a direction of travel.” Over the next few years, therefore, we will be able to see some genuine gains for areas such as Cornwall—a bit late for the current spending review, but perhaps setting out progress towards the next one.

The Government are making capital investment and there is the prospect of a little more investment through European Union structural funds but, in addition, I hope that Cornwall can aspire to get the money to which it is entitled for policing, local government, health and education. Flooding is another, related example, which was mentioned to me by the local authority. Sadly, as elsewhere in the country, we have had some problems with flooding in Cornwall, although not in my constituency. The Bellwin formula used by the Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs to give extra support to local areas operates on the basis of local authorities. In an area such as ours, where we now have a unitary authority, we have only one allocation for the council, whereas with two-tier authorities district councils are involved as well, which gives those areas more flexibility and more money per head of population. It is another example of how areas that have sought to be more efficient—unitary authorities, in times of public spending difficulty, have undoubtedly created efficiencies—are penalised when they seek to offer maximum support to communities that have suffered tragic flooding episodes.

I am grateful, Mr Gray, for the opportunity to raise this matter, and I hope that the Minister can address my concerns, particularly on damping, so that we can move towards obtaining the funding to which Cornwall and similar areas are entitled.

11:10

[The Exchequer Secretary to the Treasury (Mr David Gauke)]

I am grateful for the opportunity to speak again under your chairmanship, Mr Gray, and to discuss the issues raised by my hon. Friend the Member for North Cornwall (Dan Rogerson). I congratulate him on securing this debate. He has been a vociferous campaigner for all things Cornish—the Cornish economy, the Cornish language and, more recently, the Cornish pasty. I am pleased to discuss Government funding for Cornwall today.

I will turn specifically to funding in my hon. Friend’s region shortly, but first I should like to talk more generally about the way in which Government funding is allocated throughout the UK, and to describe the changes we are making to encourage growth at national and regional levels. The 2010 spending review set out how the Government would carry out the UK’s deficit reduction plan over four years, and included fixed departmental budgets. We protected spending on the NHS, schools, and overseas aid, and we chose to prioritise fairness and social mobility, to focus on spending that promotes long-term economic growth, to reform public services, to shift power away from central Government to local level, and to improve value for money.

Some of those decisions at national level will have a significant impact in Cornwall. Having enjoyed a splendid holiday in my hon. Friend’s constituency a couple of years ago, I know that tourism is of considerable importance to Cornwall, although he is right to point out that its economy is much more than merely tourism; it is more diverse than that. We invested in the “Great” campaign, which was launched to deliver long-term trade and tourism benefits throughout Great Britain, and I am sure that Cornwall will benefit significantly from that.

The most important decisions for Cornwall have been those on local authority expenditure in the region—a point that my hon. Friend raised. Local authority expenditure is split between grants from central Departments, which are set in the spending review, and localised expenditure, which is largely funded by council tax. I am sure my hon. Friend will be pleased to note that during the current settlement period, Cornwall’s reductions in spending power have been smaller than the average in England. Spending power in the county fell by minus 3.3% in 2011-12 and minus 2.9% in 2012-13, compared with an average of minus 4.5% and then minus 3.3% for councils in England. I want to turn to the point my hon. Friend raised about the damping mechanism.

[Dan Rogerson]

I did not use all the time I might have done, so I hope that we can continue our discussion a little further. The problem for some areas such as Cornwall is that historically the council was run by independents who took a firm view on keeping the old rates down, so historically the area has low council tax, compared with counties such as Surrey. The Government are seeking to limit the impact of council tax rises—they have extended proposals for that through the Department for Communities and Local Government—but our base is already low, so there is an impact from that as well as the central grant.

[Mr Gauke]

My hon. Friend raises a fair point, and has put it on the record. I recognise that councils that have, over many years, shown greater determination to control their costs have less fat that can be cut than other authorities where that has not been the case.

On the damping mechanism, it is right that the Government must balance the interests of places with growing and declining needs, and Cornwall is an area with growing needs. Damping has been used to avoid steep jumps in council tax and demands on areas with declining needs. DCLG has consulted on a new funding system from 2013, and the Government have indicated that we want to move away from damping. My hon. Friend referred to rurality, and asked whether that is taken sufficiently into account. Again, DCLG has consulted on changes to the formula, and he will be aware that it will publish the draft local government finance settlement for 2013-14 for consultation shortly. It will set out funding amounts for each authority, and I am sure that my hon. Friend will be interested to read it. It will shed some new light on damping. I hope that he finds that helpful.

The formula exists for a reason—to strike a balance between the needs of areas with growing and declining populations—and it seeks to make an assessment that strikes that balance. We will say more about that shortly.

[Dan Rogerson]

Another area that the National Audit Office highlighted in its report on academy schools, particularly the early academies that were set up under the previous Government, is the generous settlement they were given, perhaps to encourage people to take a new step. However, as the number of academies has risen, there is an issue with that funding, which is perhaps over-generous compared with that for maintained schools. The report acknowledges that gap and the need for convergence, and the Minister’s ministerial colleague, Lord Hill, talked to us about that. The issue is the direction of travel, because the damping effect will be difficult to achieve.

[Mr Gauke]

All I would say about that is that the Department for Education is also looking at the school funding formula in the light of some of those issues, and I am sure that Education Ministers will respond in due course.

Until now, the main local authority grant from central Departments has been a formula grant distributed by DCLG through local government finance settlements. In line with our priority of encouraging growth, from April 2013, we will replace the current fairly complex formula grant regime with a business rates retention scheme to help provide a stronger local growth incentive. Councils that succeed in growing their local economy will have a direct boost to their coffers. Quite simply, the rationale behind the change is that we want to give individual councils, including those in Cornwall, every opportunity to promote growth. We want them to use their influence in planning, their investment in skills and infrastructure, and their relationship with local businesses to create the right conditions for local economic growth. This year’s local government finance settlement from April 2013 will be the first under the new arrangements.

The new scheme incorporates strong protections as well as incentives. There will be a safety net for places that, in any year, see their income from business rates fall by more than 7.5% below their baseline funding level. Following consultation, we have strengthened the incentive by ensuring that the maximum levy will be capped at 50p in the pound. That will mean that at least 25p in every pound of growth will be retained locally, and shared between billing authorities and any major precepting authorities. Recent economic analysis, carried out by DCLG, suggests that the proposals could deliver a £10 billion boost to gross domestic product by 2020. Obviously, that figure covers the whole UK, but the change will, I am sure, mean real benefit in Cornwall.

Having set out how the system works and the improvements that we are making, I shall quickly discuss the measures announced in this year’s autumn statement. Then I shall deal specifically with Cornwall. The autumn statement from my right hon. Friend the Chancellor of the Exchequer contained measures to do three things: first, to protect the economy; secondly, to promote growth; and thirdly, to ensure fairness. As part of that statement, we have had to ask all areas of Government, including local authorities, to go further. For most areas of Government, that means an additional top-slice of 1% in 2013-14 and 2% in 2014-15. However, recognising that local authorities are already receiving a funding reduction from holding down council tax in 2013-14, and to support them in transforming services to meet future reductions, we took the decision to exempt local government from the top-slice in 2013-14.

However, looking towards long-term economic stability, we needed to be wary. Local government spending accounts for about one quarter of all public expenditure, so we have asked local government to join other Departments in absorbing the 2% cut to departmental expenditure limit grants in 2014-15—that is £447 million—and prepare for further reductions. The savings made thus far on administration, property costs and IT services across Whitehall have proven that significant savings can be found, and those savings will have a significant impact for the whole UK, because it was through them that we were able to announce a number of measures that will have positive impacts across the UK, including in Cornwall.

[Dan Rogerson]

I am grateful to the Minister for setting out the approach that the Treasury is taking in negotiation with other Departments. He is right to point out that local government is doing all that it can to achieve the targets, which are quite challenging. He refers to the potential reduction in future years of 2%. In line with the concept of fairness, which is at the heart of what the coalition is trying to do across income levels, is the geographical issue also being considered, so that those local authorities that have been more disadvantaged, as he acknowledged earlier, might feel slightly less of that pain than those that have been over-funded historically?

[Mr Gauke]

Again, I am inclined to refer my hon. Friend to the DCLG announcement to be made very shortly on the local government formula, and the consultation that will follow. I have no doubt that he will look closely at that. I do not think that he will have too long to wait before he has the opportunity to do so.

It is worth pointing out that the difficult decisions that we have made enable us to take a number of steps that will benefit the country as a whole, including Cornwall and the rest of the south-west. For example, the further increase in the personal allowance will benefit 2.1 million people in the south-west, lifting an additional 20,000 people out of income tax entirely; and 1.2 million pensioners will benefit from an additional £2.70 a week increase in the state pension. The significant temporary increase in the annual investment allowance from £25,000 to £250,000 will help businesses across the south-west.

We announced £300 million of additional investment in empty homes and affordable homes across England. I know that housing is an important issue in Cornwall, and my hon. Friend has raised it. That announcement is in addition to more than £150 million of planned investment to build more than 9,000 new affordable homes in the south-west and return about 500 empty homes to use across the south and south-west.

We will invest further in flood defences—another point raised by my hon. Friend—and, significantly for households and businesses in Cornwall, we are cancelling the fuel duty rise planned for January 2013. That will help the owners of the 3.5 million motor vehicles in the south-west, saving a typical driver £40 a year and a haulier £1,200 a year. However, as my hon. Friend mentioned, that is not the only good news for motorists in and around his constituency. The autumn statement announced a number of key infrastructure projects, one of which involves the £30 million that we will contribute towards a 2.6 mile dualling of the single carriageway section of the A30 between Temple and Higher Carblake, which will include changes to junctions.

[Dan Rogerson]

I am grateful to the Minister for giving way again. He is being extremely generous, as was the Treasury with the project that he describes, although I have to acknowledge that half the costs will be funded locally, through local authorities. That is an excellent example of what he was talking about earlier: £30 million is coming from central Government and £30 million from local government. He also raised the issue of fuel duty. Again, I welcome the Government’s decision on that. I understand that they are also having discussions with the European Union in relation to what it has done for islands, such as the Isles of Scilly in the constituency of my hon. Friend the Member for St Ives (Andrew George), and whether rural parts of mainland Britain could also benefit from a further reduction—

[Andrew George (St Ives) (LD)]

Of 5p.

[Dan Rogerson]

A 5p reduction. That would have a huge impact, particularly on small businesses in my constituency. I urge the Minister to redouble his efforts to secure that.

[Mr Gauke]

My hon. Friend is right to say that we are having further discussions with the European Commission about that. Obviously, we will update the House as soon as we are able to do so. However, I do not want to leave the A30 just yet—not a comment that people often make. The scheme to which I referred, and for which I know my hon. Friend has campaigned long and hard, will relieve congestion and improve journey times. It will also attract business growth and inward investment to Cornwall by improving links to the rest of England. The Government welcome the commitment from Cornwall council, to which my hon. Friend alluded, to deliver and part-fund the scheme on behalf of the Secretary of State. Its drive in taking the scheme forward demonstrates how much of a priority it is to the council and to Cornwall generally. Work on the scheme is set to start in 2014-15, subject to the completion of planning processes and funding agreements, and the road is due to be open to traffic in 2016. I am sure that it will bring real benefits to the area.

My hon. Friend may feel that my contribution took a long time to reach Cornwall, and I am sure that is a feeling that many motorists will at times sympathise with. However, it is important for us to look at the national context of spending and the impacts that decisions made at that level will have in each region. I hope that my comments have been useful in laying out the Government’s position.

[Andrew George]

I know that my hon. Friend the Member for North Cornwall (Dan Rogerson) raised, while I was still in Committee, the issue of health funding and the principle of parity. Cornwall has received more than £200 million less over a six-year period than the Government themselves have said it should receive—than its target funding. I know that the Minister has deferred to each Department when he has answered questions on these issues, but as for his opinion, does he think that such a distance between what is allocated and what the Government say that a local area should get is acceptable?

[Mr Gauke]

Of course, as a Government, we are committed to ensuring that there is a fair funding system. As a constituency MP, representing a Hertfordshire seat, I know that often one can look at particular areas, including health funding, where there are disparities between what one might expect—what one might see as the right amount for one’s area—and the national average, and that can be deeply frustrating for Members for Parliament and for our constituents. My hon. Friend the Member for St Ives (Andrew George) makes the case well for Cornwall. Of course, as a Government, through all Departments, including the Treasury, we will look at what we can do to ensure that we have a funding system that is fair.

I am conscious of the time, so I will conclude. I congratulate my hon. Friend the Member for North Cornwall on securing the debate, on his work in relation to the A30, and on raising the points that he has raised today. Of course, as a Government, we want to ensure that we have a fair funding formula, whether that be for health, education or local government. That is something that we recognise across Government, including in the Treasury. On the specific issue of damping that my hon. Friend raised, I think that more information will be available to him very shortly.

11:29

Sitting suspended.

Welfare Reform (Disabled People and Carers)

Tuesday 18th December 2012 Westminster Hall

[Mr Christopher Chope in the Chair]

14:30

[Mr Christopher Chope (in the Chair)]

Owing to the interest in this debate, it will be necessary to impose a time limit on speeches. I shall decide what that will be after the hon. Member for Gateshead (Ian Mearns) has finished his speech.

[Ian Mearns (Gateshead) (Lab)]

I am happy to serve under your chairmanship, Mr Chope.

Today’s debate, I hope, will categorically highlight the unfairness of the Government’s welfare reform agenda on disabled people, their carers and families. I urge the Department for Work and Pensions, in collaboration with the Minister for disabled people, the hon. Member for Wirral West (Esther McVey), to conduct a cumulative impact assessment on the real-term effects of welfare reform on some of the most vulnerable people in our society. I was urged by a number of groups to try to secure today’s debate. The importance of the debate and the issues within it is reflected by the number of hon. Members present this afternoon. I am gratified, and I thank my hon. Friends for coming along to support this debate.

The Chancellor and the Prime Minister have repeatedly lectured us about the need for fairness and said that we are all in this together. However, as I hope to demonstrate conclusively in this debate, it is not the richest, most powerful or most able in our society who will pay the price of the Government’s calculation and uncaring disregard, but the least able, most vulnerable and least powerful—the disabled.

I am sure that hon. Members will have read, or at least heard of, the report, “The Tipping Point”, by the Hardest Hit campaign, which concluded:

“Many disabled people feel that they are living on the edge, and that the loss of even a small amount of income could tip their already complex lives into greater dependence and insecurity.”

This summer, the Hardest Hit coalition surveyed more than 4,500 disabled people on their views and experiences of the welfare and social care systems. It also conducted a series of 50 in-depth interviews with disabled people and a poll of more than 350 independent welfare advisers. From the study, it discovered that disabled people and their families are struggling to make ends meet and feel increasingly nervous about the future. The Government need to act urgently to arrest the slide of disabled people into entrenched isolation and poverty.

Disabled people have experienced a massive drop in income—about £500 million—since the emergency Budget of 2010. Recent reports have shown that just in the past year, cuts for typical disabled households ranged from £200 to just over £2,000. The latest estimates suggest that disabled people will experience £9 billion of cuts over the lifetime of this Parliament—half the total cuts to the welfare budget.

[Mr Jim Cunningham (Coventry South) (Lab)]

Will my hon. Friend touch on the fact that many people who are permanently disabled now have to go through assessment schemes, which cause a lot of anxiety in their families? At the end of the day, there is a long wait to see what those results are and, more importantly, what the effects will be on those people and their families.

[Ian Mearns]

I thank my hon. Friend for that intervention, and I will reflect on that entirely. Added to the ordinary stresses of life for disabled people and their families, the mental anguish of not knowing the future is piling pressure on to many family circles.

I am sure that hon. Members on both sides of the Chamber will have heard of Pat’s petition, which closed last month. The petition was signed by 62,693 people, calling on the Government to

“stop and review the cuts to benefits and services which are falling disproportionately on disabled people, their carers and families”.

To appreciate fully the widespread concerns and understand why a cumulative impact assessment is essential, it is vital to look at the specific elements of welfare reform that are affecting disabled people, their carers and families. First, the introduction of universal credit, which will replace six income-based benefits and tax credits for people of working age with a new single benefit, will result in 2 million households seeing a drop in their income, with disabled people being among those worst affected. The Department’s own equality impact assessment from November 2011 predicted that disabled households would lose £37 a week, compared with non-disabled households, which would lose £26 a week. Quite honestly, it almost feels that the malice knows no bounds, as the Government are targeting even disabled children—they are halving support for those children from £52 to £26.

[Mrs Sharon Hodgson (Washington and Sunderland West) (Lab)]

My hon. Friend mentions children. I was recently contacted by a father in my constituency, whose daughter has severe cystic fibrosis. Her claim for disability living allowance has just been refused, and the appeal has also been refused. Given that the Government’s stated aim is to cut spending on disability payments by 20%, and that, in the north-east, where my hon. Friend is also from, Atos has been appointed to deliver the tests for people, does he share my concern that such situations will become more common in the future rather than less?

[Ian Mearns]

Alas, I fear that that is the likely outcome.

[Mr Brian H. Donohoe (Central Ayrshire) (Lab)]

I congratulate my hon. Friend on securing this debate about an issue that is burning hot in my constituency. Does he agree that Atos is not the problem? Although it has to administer the problem, it has been set certain parameters in which to work. The consequence is that everyone blames Atos, when the Government should be blamed for all that is happening to disabled people.

[Ian Mearns]

That is the case. We can hardly blame Atos for managing a system to its own benefit, because it is on a sort of performance-related pay that relates to the number of assessments it makes.

The cumulative effect on children could be as much as around £1,300 a year. Disabled children are losing that sum.

Another major change occurring through welfare reform is the introduction of the personal independence payment, which will replace disability living allowance. The disability Minister made a statement last week, which I thought was a little odd to say the least. She said:

“By October 2015, we will have reassessed 560,000 claimants. Of those, 160,000 will get a reduced award and 170,000 will get no award, but 230,000 will get the same…support.”—[Official Report, 13 December 2012; Vol. 555, c. 464.]

How could the Minister or the Department have drawn those conclusions before having done a single assessment of any individual? We already know that the outcome will be that 160,000 will get a reduced award, 170,000 will get no award, and 230,000 will get the same sort of support. I hope that I am not the only Member slightly concerned that the Minister, before any assessments have taken place, already has figures of those who will get a reduced award and those who will receive no support. Surely, it is down to the assessment to determine what the outcomes will be, but it seems that the Department has already pre-determined the outcome of the assessments for each individual.

[Pat Glass (North West Durham) (Lab)]

I congratulate my hon. Friend on securing this debate. The interest here today shows how concerned we all are, as are the people we see in our constituencies. I share my hon. Friend’s concern. I wonder whether people will simply be reassessed and reassessed until they no longer qualify for the benefit. I want to raise the case of a constituent of mine, a terminally ill constituent—

[Mr Christopher Chope (in the Chair)]

Order. This is an intervention. If you wish to make a speech in due course, you can catch my eye, make a speech, and refer to individual cases.

[Pat Glass]

I just want to say quickly—

[Mr Christopher Chope (in the Chair)]

Order. You cannot, because this is an intervention. I ask you to resume your seat. If we allow interventions to be too long, it will inevitably take time away from other people. The hon. Gentleman introducing the debate is not in a position to comment on individual constituency cases.

[Ian Mearns]

Returning to “The Tipping Point” report, it found that 84% of disabled people believe that losing their DLA would drive them into isolation and into struggling to manage their condition. Nine in 10 disabled people fear that losing their DLA would be detrimental to their health.

[Kate Green (Stretford and Urmston) (Lab)]

I, too, congratulate, my hon. Friend on securing this important debate. Many disabled people will be pleased to see it happening this afternoon. Does he agree that a further concern and uncertainty about DLA is whether it will be used by local authorities in the calculation of income for determining housing benefit? While the Burnip case remains unresolved—the Government are planning to appeal—we really do not know how much DLA people will have to spend on their needs.

[Ian Mearns]

My hon. Friend makes a very important point. That is why we are asking for a cumulative impact assessment of all the welfare reforms, including the housing benefit reforms.

Some 65% of respondents in work stated that without DLA they would not be able to work; 30% of disabled people stated that without DLA their carer would not be able to work; and 75% of disabled people said that losing DLA would mean that they needed more social care support from their local authority. Cumulatively, we can see a great deal of worry and concern emanating from the households of disabled people.

The Government say that they have to cut spending, but cutting DLA will simply mean that they have to spend more money on other things. It is clearly a false economy. We need to take into account the knock-on and implementation costs of replacing DLA with PIP. The Hardest Hit coalition concludes that the Government have over-estimated the total amount of savings that that will generate by, potentially, £1.6 billion.

Let us consider what is happening with contribution-based employment and support allowance. This is affecting many of my constituents at the moment. The Government’s decision to place a time limit of 365 days on those in the work-related activity group for ESA and to implement that retrospectively is forcing many disabled people on to jobseeker’s allowance. We should bear it in mind that there is no magic tree sprouting jobs at the moment, particularly not in places such as the north-east of England and particularly not with the Government’s economic plan. We talk an awful lot in the House about welfare to work, but it is a two-part equation—welfare and work—and I am sorry to say that, in my constituency, work is hard to come by, and in the north-east of England as a whole it is particularly hard to come by at the moment.

One of my constituents suffers from bronchial pulmonary dysplasia, is too ill for a heart and lung transplant, has been on steroids for 37 years, has osteoporosis, has kidney failure, cannot walk a single step unaided, has a fracture in her right arm, has left arm damage, has osteoarthritis and is diabetic. She was initially placed in the work-related activity group and told that she would need to find work. It should be borne in mind, as I am sure hon. Members have already fathomed, that she is housebound. Only after my intervention did the Department for Work and Pensions realise that a mistake had been made.

I do not want to talk extensively on the topic of Atos or its assessments, because frankly I would need all day. I have been sent a huge amount of information from concerned constituents and lobby groups for this debate, and I could quite easily speak for 10 hours. Unfortunately, I will not have that privilege, but it is a common occurrence in my constituency that people are concerned and genuinely feel harassed by the assessment process.

[Caroline Lucas (Brighton, Pavilion) (Green)]

This is a very important debate. Does the hon. Gentleman agree that one of the perverse outcomes of the reforms is that the constant reassessment is making sick people even more ill? The financial implications, as well as the health implications, are completely negative. This system simply is not working.

[Ian Mearns]

I absolutely concur with that. For people who have a physical disability, the added stress that that brings can often mean that their mental health deteriorates and they end up suffering genuine mental illness. That is no laughing matter for anyone affected by such an affliction. Not a week goes by when I do not get a piece of casework because Atos has assessed one of my constituents as fit for work and the decision is somewhat questionable. From my perspective and that of many charities and professionals, the work capability assessment is not fit for purpose and is particularly inept at assessing people suffering from mental health problems.

According to Mind, 40% of people applying for ESA are doing so because of mental health problems, yet it found that a lot of people with mental health problems are waiting for a work capability assessment. Some 87% of respondents said that the prospect of a reassessment was making them unduly anxious. More than one third had increased their medications as a result of anxiety, and 51% reported that it had made them have suicidal thoughts. Those data are shocking. We should not be vilifying the most vulnerable people in our society; they are contemplating taking their own lives.

I am not sure whether many hon. Members have heard of the website Calum’s List. It shows how many suicide deaths have been directly attributed to welfare reform by coroners. So far, there have been 24. How many more cases are there that have not been so attributed by a coroner? Surely the Minister should be looking into the tragedies that the Government’s agenda is causing.

In my constituency, I was provided with an interesting statistic by the local citizens advice bureau. In the last year, it has conducted 1,416 welfare benefit appeals. Of those, 1,201 were successful. That shows that of all benefit appeals that the CAB assisted Gateshead residents with in the last year, more than 80% were won. That prompts the question: why did the system fail in the first place? Surely it is a complete waste of time and money.

[Jessica Morden (Newport East) (Lab)]

The Government will argue that the system and the process are getting better, but I saw a constituent the other day with a serious brain injury whose benefits had been stopped because he did not go for his reassessment, but he did not go because he has short and long-term memory problems. These cases just keep on coming. Does my hon. Friend agree that that does not fill us with confidence for the introduction of personal independence payments?

[Ian Mearns]

Unfortunately, my forecast is that, in areas such as the one that I represent, with its particular age and disability profile, we MPs can look forward only to a tsunami of casework coming in our direction. We need to reflect on how we will deal with that.

Some figures even suggest that the work capability assessment appeals cost £50 million annually. Does the Minister really think that those assessments are effective and cost-efficient? A lady in my constituency with significant mental health issues tried to claim disability living allowance but was unsuccessful, and subsequently attended a tribunal without representation and lost. She visited the local CAB for help, and it assisted her in appealing again at the tribunal. The decision was overturned, and she was awarded £4,000 in backdated benefit. She also gained an extra £41 a week to live on. She reports that that has made such a difference to her physical and mental well-being, she no longer has to choose whether to “heat or eat”—a dilemma that many families with disabled people now face.

We need to ensure that the assessment criteria take proper account of the full range of barriers faced by people with disabilities and health conditions, make the assessment and reassessment process as simple, transparent and proportionate as possible, and ensure that robust evaluation and monitoring processes are in place.

Let me come on to social funds, which were designed to help people with expenses that are difficult to meet on a low income. The centrally provided social fund has been abolished and replaced with the devolution of discretionary social fund emergency payments, including crisis loans and community care grants, to local authorities. The making of those payments has been delegated to local authorities, and of course we know about the disproportionate cuts that authorities in the north-east have had to make in their mainline budgets.

About one third of the users of crisis loans and community care grants are disabled people. Localising that provision could have a significant impact on them, as there is no statutory duty obliging councils to provide that service or ring-fence funds for that purpose. In other words, local authorities can choose to use that money for other purposes. Given the tight budgets that they are currently overseeing, there is a high likelihood that the money will be injected into other services. The Department for Work and Pensions acknowledged that itself in its research.

[Nic Dakin (Scunthorpe) (Lab)]

I congratulate my hon. Friend on obtaining the debate. Does he agree that Jobcentre Plus in localities such as Scunthorpe is concerned about that transfer of responsibility to local authorities, which are ill prepared to take on that very important task?

[Ian Mearns]

I could not agree more. My local authority has shed about one third of its administrative staff. That prompts the question: how will a local authority with such a huge cut in its capacity to deliver for its people ever be able to come to terms with the demands that will be placed on it?

Another distressing topic at the moment for disabled people and their carers and families is, of course, the bedroom tax. The reduction in housing benefit for social housing tenants whose accommodation is deemed to be too large for their needs will disproportionately hit households with disabled people. Of the 670,000 people estimated by the DWP to be under-occupying accommodation in the social rented sector, two thirds of those affected may be disabled. Many organisations such as Carers UK believe, as do I, that the policy will have a detrimental impact on certain groups of carers and many disabled people. Some families may be unable to cover the shortfall and be forced to move.

[Mark Lazarowicz (Edinburgh North and Leith) (Lab/Co-op)]

Inclusion Scotland made the point to me that it is not only about financial costs. If the family of a disabled person moves away to get smaller accommodation—if it is available—they will lose support networks and contact with carers and families. If they have to move, due to the tax, they will lose those things, which they need to survive. I am sure that point has been made to many other hon. Members.

[Ian Mearns]

I could not agree more. I thank my hon. Friend for making that point; it is absolutely true.

Steve Cowen, the chief officer of the Gateshead Carers Association—I cannot ignore it, because its office is next door to mine—has told me about the devastating impact that the proposals will have on carers and their families in Gateshead. Steve says that carers are the glue that holds the health and social care system together. The reforms hit them hard, and hit them again and again.

[Nick Smith (Blaenau Gwent) (Lab)]

I congratulate my hon. Friend on securing the debate. Does he agree that the bedroom tax needs to be promoted? The Government need to raise awareness of it sooner rather than later, so that families can budget and prepare for it. It will be a terrible shock for many.

[Ian Mearns]

I am grateful to my hon. Friend. He is right, but I need to make some progress, so I will move on swiftly.

A member of a couple could have a disability that means that the couple cannot sleep in the same room, for entirely appropriate reasons. A couple may need an extra room for equipment. A local authority—or a family—may have spent a considerable amount of money adapting a property for a family who are then forced to move, which not only would be distressing and disruptive to care arrangements, but could risk a greater long-term cost, because the adaptations need to be replaced in the new, smaller home. It is clearly daft.

Cuts in disability benefits imposed by the Government will, of course, affect disabled people living across the whole country, but, as with almost every other aspect of the Government’s approach to public policy, the impact is felt most keenly in areas with the greatest number of people living in relative poverty—the areas with the greatest need. Wales has the highest proportion of disabled people in the UK, with one fifth—21%—of working-age people living with a disability. It also has the highest proportion of benefit recipients for all types of benefits—20% of people of working age. Recent statistics show that just over 10% of Northern Ireland’s population are in receipt of disability living allowance.

A report prepared for the DWP by Christina Beatty, Steve Fothergill and Deborah Platts-Fowler listed the regional differences. The 20 areas with the greatest proportion of working-age people receiving DLA include Merthyr Tydfil, Neath, Blaenau Gwent, Easington, Caerphilly, Knowsley, Glasgow, and Liverpool—the list goes on. In my constituency, about 4% of people are affected. Surprise, surprise, the 10 areas with the lowest proportion of working-age people receiving DLA include Runnymede, South Northamptonshire, Kingston upon Thames, south Buckinghamshire, Windsor and Maidenhead, Surrey Heath, and Wokingham. So much for “We’re all in this together.”

The report from the Hardest Hit coalition highlighted the dismay felt by many disabled people on finding that they have become the easy target for cuts. Perhaps more shocking is the fact that the Government’s rhetoric justifying disability benefit cuts is hardening public attitudes. Many disabled people feel that the media portrayal of benefit scroungers is behind the increasing amount of disability hate crime, which is at an all-time high. That is despite the fact that estimated overpayments of DLA due to fraud make up less than 0.5% of total spending. As anyone who reads the Daily Mail will know, there are a lot of myths in the debate about welfare reform, and some are very damaging to disabled people. We need to confront those myths head-on. They are lies.

Official levels of fraud in disability and out-of-work benefits are far lower than public perceptions and polling suggest. The Office for National Statistics highlights that just 0.3% of overpayments for incapacity benefit were due to fraud. Figures on fraud for both DLA and incapacity benefit are outstripped by the figures for official error; in other words, mistakes by officials at the DWP cost the taxpayer more than fraud. Though it is true that the welfare bill grew in 10 years, disability benefits were not the main cause of that expenditure or a ballooning welfare budget.

Disabled people feel that they have been deliberately targeted, even though there is a clear alternative. Although estimates vary, tax evasion and avoidance cost the Government between £50 billion and £100 billion a year. It is estimated that a mansion tax on expensive properties, above a threshold of £2 million, would affect an estimated 74,000 people and, at face value, raise £1.7 billion. A financial transaction tax of about 0.05% on transactions such as those involving stocks, bonds, foreign currency and derivatives is possible. The bank levy introduced in January 2011 raises £2.5 billion annually, but a Robin Hood tax could raise up to 10 times that amount—£20 billion a year.

Whatever one’s view of the trade-offs, the priority should be the need to protect the poorest. In October 2010, the Prime Minister promised always to look after the sick, the vulnerable and elderly. The Chancellor said in his June 2010 emergency Budget:

“Too often, when countries undertake major consolidations…it is the poorest—those who had least to do with the cause of the economic misfortunes—who are hit hardest. Perhaps that”

has been

“a mistake that our country has made in the past. This coalition Government will be different.”—[Official Report, 22 June 2010; Vol. 512, c. 180.]

Really?

There are practical things that the Government can do over the next year. The first is to learn from the mistakes of the work capability assessments and ensure that the assessment for personal independence payments is as fair as possible. Secondly, they could review the work capability assessment, starting with the WCA descriptors, to ensure that it works consistently and fairly for all individuals with limited capability for work or work-related activity. Thirdly, they could get the fundamentals of universal credit right, ensuring that disabled people do not lose in cash terms due to the transition to universal credit from 2013. Fourthly, and most importantly, as loth as I am to implore the Government to do anything, I implore them to conduct a thorough cumulative impact assessment on the impact of all welfare reforms on disabled people, their carers and families. When the Government collect the results, they must act on them, so that no one is left floundering in unnecessarily deprived circumstances because of a welfare reform Act, the results of which were all too easy to predict.

[Several hon. Members]

rose—

[Mr Christopher Chope (in the Chair)]

Order. Owing to the number of people who wish to participate, I shall limit the time for speeches to four minutes. If there are a lot of interventions, it may be necessary to reduce that time. The wind-ups will start at 3.40 pm.

14:58

[Sir Tony Baldry (Banbury) (Con)]

I shall focus on the 6 million carers. I want to ensure that I have understood the legislation correctly. My approach to the detail of Department for Work and Pensions legislation is a bit like my approach at school to algebra—I am not always confident that I fully understand it.

Am I right to think that carer’s allowance will continue to exist as a separate benefit outside universal credit? Will universal credit awards include a carer element, which will continue for as long as the carer provides care for at least 35 hours a week to a severely disabled person? Am I right to think that, within universal credit, claimants will qualify for a “limited capability for work” element or a carer element—not both—but households will still be able to get a “limited capability for work” element for one member and the carer element for another?

It will be helpful if the Minister explained to us all—perhaps in writing or in answer to a parliamentary question—what, for the purposes of legislation, constitutes a “household”. Some of the misunderstandings or confusions arise from how a household is defined. As I understand it, some households will have an increased earnings disregard to reflect their different needs. Carers will not be a specified group that is entitled to an increased disregard, but it is expected that a majority of them will benefit from income disregard because of other family circumstances, including the maximum disregard of £7,000 if they live in a household with a disabled partner. Does that apply only to households in which there is a disabled partner, or to those in which any other relation is disabled? As the Minister will be aware, there are concerns about households with, for example, adult disabled children.

Exemption from the benefit cap will be extended to households that include a member who is in receipt of the personal independence payment. Some households in receipt of DLA will be exempt from the benefit cap; for example, if a carer’s partner is in receipt of it, the household will be exempt from the cap. Are such households only those in which there is a disabled partner or all households in which there is a carer? Will the Minister clarify that, or write to me if I have misunderstood?

[Mrs Hodgson]

Will the hon. Gentleman give way?

[Sir Tony Baldry]

I will not.

As I understand it, carer’s allowance will be linked to receipt of either rate of the daily living component of PIP. Is that correct? Obviously, it is important to ensure that people caring for those with greatest needs get the appropriate level of support, and disabled people clearly face extra costs. Am I right in thinking that households receiving DLA, PIP or the support component of the employment and support allowance will and should be exempt from the benefit cap? Have I got that right?

Will housing benefit regulations recognise that some people need an additional room for an overnight carer who lives elsewhere? To go back to the exchanges in the main Chamber earlier this week, am I right that significantly adapted accommodation will receive additional discretionary housing payments funding of some £30 million from 2013-14 to cover that group and foster carers, and that local authorities will have a fair amount of discretion about how that is applied?

Universal credit should provide support for carers and improve their opportunities to maintain links with, and get back into, the world of work.

[Mr Christopher Chope (in the Chair)]

Order.

15:02

[Debbie Abrahams (Oldham East and Saddleworth) (Lab)]

I rise to speak on behalf of the many constituents coming into my office every week who are affected by this Government’s welfare reforms. At every opportunity, we need to challenge the ideology underpinning those reforms and the disastrous economic policies that are wreaking devastation and havoc on ordinary people’s lives. That ideology is about dividing and ruling—pitting the public sector versus the private sector, so-called shirkers versus workers and the able-bodied versus the disabled.

I am not alone in being deeply offended by not only the content of the Chancellor’s autumn statement and its further hit on welfare recipients, but the characterisation of people receiving benefits. Terms such as “scrounger”, “shirker” and “workshy” are used deliberately to vilify people on benefits as the new undeserving poor. The issue for this Government, as in relation to so much of what they are doing, is that that is just not true. Most people on benefits are in work and are net contributors to the Exchequer.

The recent study by the Joseph Rowntree Foundation and the New Policy Institute on research monitoring poverty has shown that 6.1 million people are in poverty in working households, which is 1 million fewer than the number of workless households in poverty. There is no evidence of a culture of worklessness. Evidence from the Institute for Fiscal Studies has shown that the autumn statement will affect the 10% poorest in our country, who will have the biggest percentage drop in their income. I am relatively new to politics, but I think that that is an absolutely disgraceful misrepresentation of the facts—not only on welfare, as we have seen in the past, but on the economy and the NHS too. This country deserves better.

I am proud of our model of social welfare and its historical roots. It was borne out of world war two, during which we were all in it together. I want to retain that model, which is underpinned by inclusion, support and security for all, so protecting us in case the worlds of any of us fall through and assuring the dignity and basics of life. Those basic securities are going, and the dignity and respect that all people should be afforded is often sadly lacking.

I want to highlight the effects of welfare reforms on disabled people and their families and carers. The context of those reforms has already been mentioned, but I want to emphasise the effects of the proposed cuts—the 1%—in out-of-work benefits and the change from DLA to PIP. The economy is already depressed, with 6.4 million people lacking the paid work that they want, and 1.4 million people in part-time work who want full-time work, which is the highest figure in 20 years. We have already heard about the increase in living costs, with people having to choose between eating and heating, and cuts to local services—more than half my local council’s budget is being attacked—and social care. Those will have short-term effects on disabled people, but we must also bear in mind evidence about the impacts on life expectancy and the exacerbation of existing health inequalities. The cuts in motability allowance are just one example of how disabled people are being affected. I will finish now, Mr Chope, but you can see the scale of the issue.

15:06

[Sheryll Murray (South East Cornwall) (Con)]

It is a pleasure to speak under your chairmanship, Mr Chope. I congratulate the hon. Member for Gateshead (Ian Mearns) on securing this debate.

It is important to discuss the Welfare Reform Act 2012, but a lot that has already been said in this debate makes for unhappy listening. The campaigns that exist about the effects of the Government’s welfare reforms on disabled people have led to an outbreak of fear-mongering and panic. It was important to have this debate to put a balanced argument on the record, so that people understand that the Government are doing all they can for disabled people and their families in a harsh economic climate.

The recent Welfare Reform Act was an attempt to help disabled people and their families. I welcome the fact that, in recognition of the additional needs that disability brings, all households with somebody who is receiving disability living allowance or constant attendance allowance will be exempt from the cap.

[Kate Green]

It is not absolutely correct that all households with somebody in receipt of disability living allowance will be exempt. If there is an adult non-dependent child in receipt of DLA in the household, that exemption will not apply to the main household.

[Sheryll Murray]

The hon. Lady is obviously going along the fear-mongering route, and perhaps the Minister will address that. The exemption will be extended to include a person in receipt of a personal independence payment, which will replace DLA for individuals of working age from April 2013.

The current system has its faults. One of my constituents has applied for DLA, because he is partially sighted and his sight is deteriorating rapidly. Medical records that were used in determining whether he was eligible for DLA were out of date, despite his ophthalmologist having issued up-to-date information more than once. My constituent was refused DLA, but he is appealing. I hope that, under the new system, he will receive what he needs, and that any appeals can be dealt with promptly and in a way that assists and protects those in need. Another constituent was so poorly that my senior caseworker had to go to his home to help him fill out his ESA and DLA forms. I want the Government to assure me that the application process will be accessible for the most vulnerable in our society and that there will be help for those who have difficulty with any application.

I will continue to fight for constituents who are not getting the benefits they need because of their disability. I am determined not to let the most vulnerable in our society suffer at the hands of bureaucracy. There were issues with the system as it stood, but I hope the Welfare Reform Act will address them. It does a wide range of things, such as reducing the culture of welfare dependency for those who can work. It has the intention of protecting and helping the disabled, and I look forward to the Minister’s comments.

15:09

[Grahame M. Morris (Easington) (Lab)]

This is the first time I have served under your chairmanship, Mr Chope. I congratulate my hon. Friend the Member for Gateshead (Ian Mearns) on securing this timely and important debate. The number of Opposition Members here is testament to the importance of this subject. It is excellent that they have come along to express concerns on behalf of their communities and of disabled people, who are up in arms.

I would like to challenge the hon. Member for South East Cornwall (Sheryll Murray), who suggested that Labour Members were somehow scaremongering about the scale and impact of the cuts. For the record, I have done a little research on my area, County Durham, and the impact is absolutely huge: changes to ESA will affect 26,000 people there. The Government’s 20% reduction in DLA funding and the predicted escalation in the case load will cost County Durham £12.83 million. In my constituency alone, £2.76 million of support for disabled people will be withdrawn as the migration to PIP occurs. Overall, County Durham is predicted to lose £11.59 million a year in income just from changes to tax credits. We could contrast that with what is happening in some of the more affluent parts of the country, such as the royal borough of Kensington and Chelsea, which is predicted to lose just £1.7 million. If we break the figures down according to population, we find that £77.22 is lost per working-age person in County Durham, compared with £17 in Kensington and Chelsea. That has huge implications for the local economy.

My hon. Friend the Member for Gateshead mentioned the Chancellor, who said:

“Too often, when countries undertake major consolidations of this kind, it is the poorest—those who had least to do with the cause of the economic misfortunes—who are hit hardest.”

He suggested that that was

“a mistake that our country has made in the past. This coalition Government will be different.”—[Official Report, 22 June 2010; Vol. 512, c. 180.]

However, if we examine what has happened since the emergency Budget in June 2010, we find that disabled people and their carers have experienced a major drop in their income of £500 million. There is a huge credibility gap between the Government’s rhetoric and the practical implications of their policy on the ground.

According to the Scope-Demos report “Destination Unknown”, Britain’s 3.6 million disabled people in receipt of disability benefits will have become £9 billion worse off between 2010 and the end of this Parliament.

[Mrs Hodgson]

I just want to add that Carers UK estimates that 10,000 carers could lose their carer’s allowance as a result of the changes to DLA. Does my hon. Friend think that that is a disgrace?

[Grahame M. Morris]

It is outrageous. Local authorities are struggling to balance their budgets. I thank Easington carers for the information they have provided to me. The number of carers’ centres across my county is going down from five to one, and carers report severe cuts in services, with many now being run using volunteers. So, yes, the issue is a huge concern, and carers are the unsung heroes of the community in many respects.

I will have to curtail my remarks, but there is absolutely no doubt that the Prime Minister’s rhetoric about being led by the views of disabled groups does not hold water. A number of surveys have been carried out, and a commission led by Paralympic gold medallist Baroness Tanni Grey-Thompson found that 450,000 disabled people and their families could lose up to £58 a week under the coalition’s universal credit reform—cuts so deep that one in 10 disabled households with children fear they may lose their homes, with many struggling to pay for basic essentials such as food and heating.

There is no doubt the cuts are taking money from people who are already struggling, and disabled people are twice as likely to live in poverty as other citizens. I call on the Government urgently to review the impact of their welfare reforms on those who are most in need.

15:15

[Dr Eilidh Whiteford (Banff and Buchan) (SNP)]

I congratulate the hon. Member for Gateshead (Ian Mearns) on securing the debate.

One group of carers I have particular concerns about is the parents of disabled adults who provide care and support for their sons and daughters at home. In the short time available, I want to focus on a couple of stories from my constituency that highlight not only the shortcomings of the work capability assessments, but the long-term impacts of caring on families’ income levels and on the health of carers. The big challenge is how to make the home situation sustainable for people who are very much the backbone of our community care system.

It is important and relevant to point out that Aberdeenshire was part of the pilot that introduced the new assessment scheme. We are therefore somewhat ahead of the curve in the implementation of the changes, and we are perhaps starting to see the impacts ahead of other parts of the country.

The first family I want to talk about have a severely disabled son with a range of complex learning and physical disabilities. It is clear from his assessments that he will never be expected to work, and he will need support all his life. However, he can walk without the use of aids—he cannot walk far, but he can nevertheless walk—so his mobility needs have recently been downgraded, which has had significant consequences for his family. Initially, the most serious was that he lost the gateway services that the council provided, which gave him access and transport to a day centre. I intervened in the case, and we have managed to get that decision rolled back, but the loss of part of my constituent’s mobility allowance has put a significant strain on his working parents, who juggle their working lives and shifts around his mobility requirements. They now have to use public transport in a rural area where services are not regular, and that is highly inappropriate, given their son’s medical condition, because they need to get him to regular hospital appointments in Aberdeen. That situation is not sustainable, and I am left wondering how long those parents will be able to continue to care for their son at home. They have made it clear they do not want him in residential care, but they are also clear that the situation they are in is simply not sustainable. The Government really need to address that issue.

The other family I want to talk about have been very unlucky in the health lottery. Until recently, the mother received ESA for her own health problems. She looks after a severely disabled husband, who is a bit older and who is basically housebound. She also looks after a disabled daughter, who is a wheelchair user with other, complicating health conditions. It is difficult in a short debate such as this to assess the extent to which the mother’s health problems have been compounded and exacerbated by that long-term caring. However, she now receives £29 a week because she has exhausted her entitlement to contributory benefits, and she must, as it were, live off her disabled relatives, although she has a small occupational pension from earlier in her life, when she was able to work. The family are trying hard to live with dignity in tough economic circumstances. They have not asked to be unhealthy; they have had to deal for a long time—well over 30 years—with a child who has severe disabilities and who has needed a lot of care and attention.

The impact on such families, the strain on social services and the long-term implications for our health care service and for residential care provision are significant. At a human and a social level, the system needs to address and support the needs of carers, and particularly those who are caring for an indefinite period.

15:19

[Sheila Gilmore (Edinburgh East) (Lab)]

It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Mr Chope. I congratulate my hon. Friend the Member for Gateshead (Ian Mearns) on securing the debate.

I am going to pre-empt the Minister, because I expect her to say in reply to the debate, as she keeps saying, “You”—not meaning any of us personally, but the Opposition—“did not have a cumulative impact assessment when you were in power.” However, I cannot think of a time when so many things have been happening simultaneously. The roll-out of incapacity benefit to ESA is still going on. We will have the change from disability living allowance to personal independence payment. We have housing benefit changes and universal credit. The reason we want a cumulative impact assessment is that what is happening is unprecedented. We need to know what will happen to people like my constituent who is 59 and has lived in her home for 30 years; she has severe back and hip problems and has just received a letter telling her she will lose housing benefit in April unless she can find somewhere to move to. Currently her grandchildren stay over for part of the week, which helps her family out. If she cannot do that any more, it will have an impact on their living and working arrangements. A ripple effect happens.

I have not yet dared tell my constituent that almost certainly she will in due course lose severe disability premium, which she currently gets because she is in receipt of income support and has no carer in the household. That, doubtless, is still to come, but I do not want to make her too fearful. The things that she does know about are happening already. They are not a myth being created by us or the disability movement.

When people become ill they experience a fantastic loss of income anyway, and an increase in costs. The Government appear to be oblivious to that. If a couple have been working—one full-time and one part-time—and the one who worked full-time suffers a stroke and must give up work, they go down to half an income and ESA. At the end of a year, if the person in question ends up in the ESA work-related activity group, their income falls again: the ESA will be lost because it is contributory; they will not qualify for the non-contributory version—even though they have worked and paid in all their lives they will not get that—so their income will go down to that of a part-time employee. Again, there are ripple effects and cumulative effects on people at a time when they are incurring greater costs. Someone who is at home more than they were when they went to work will have increased fuel and transport costs to meet. The person who is ill and has a disability may always have been the driver for the household, so there will be taxi and increased public transport costs. People in that position already have a substantial reduction in income.

I am glad that the Minister realised that the initial plans for rolling out DLA into PIP were totally unrealistic, and that the time scale has been extended, but there will still be clear losers. Our accounts are not scare stories. The information comes from the Government’s figures: 170,000 people, on reassessment, will lose DLA altogether before October 2015. That is a lot of people. That, apparently, is reality in the Government’s terms. I ask the Minister please to agree to a cumulative impact assessment.

15:23

[Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)]

I congratulate the hon. Member for Gateshead (Ian Mearns) on bringing the matter to the House. I thank him, because it is one that is close to my heart, for two reasons. The first is personal, because my brother, Keith, had an accident in which he received serious brain injuries. He had many years of rehabilitation, and although it did not mean he could lead the independent life he once had, he can have some sort of independent life, because of his carers and my parents. My parents give as much help as they can, but my mother is 81 and my father is 83, so they will be able to give less and less help. There will be greater emphasis on the NHS and what it does through carers, but also on the DLA award that helps Keith to have carers in the house on a more permanent basis. He relies on the award to pay for the help he needs. If that were to change—I hope that the Minister is taking this on board—his quality of life would change dramatically. He would have to go to a health facility elsewhere.

Is my brother the only person in my constituency to whom that has happened? Of course not: there are hundreds—indeed, thousands—who fit into that category. All over the country people have made me aware of that. Some of the hon. Members present for the debate attended Baroness Tanni Grey-Thompson’s inquiry. In her report she has said that

“230,000 severely disabled people who do not have another adult to assist them could receive between £28 and £58 a week less”.

Also,

“100,000 disabled children stand to lose up to £28 a week”

and 116,000 disabled people who work risk losing up to £40 per week from payments towards additional costs of being disabled. Clearly, those figures cannot be ignored. Those are the facts of the case and that is how things will happen. A recent newspaper comment said:

“DLA helps disabled people to manage some of their own care needs; without this support, they could increasingly rely on family members.”

Yes, that is so if the family members are alive and accessible. If not, that cannot happen.

Other hon. Members have mentioned Carers UK and the Hardest Hit survey. Three in 10 disabled people stated that without DLA their care would not work. The figures are clear. Family carers provide an unmatched service in the United Kingdom, saving the Government millions upon millions of pounds each year. The Government must address care-in-the-home needs. There is only so much that families can do and while we are trying to save money care in the community cannot bear the brunt, but that is what is happening. Private care companies are under pressure and have less money available to them. That means that elderly people are living in unfit conditions, and much more is required of their carers.

Many young and single-parent families find it very difficult to cope. Young mothers try their best to do without the absent father, but they cannot juggle taking care of the home as well as looking after children with attention deficit hyperactivity disorder. There are many in that situation in my constituency, and that will be true of the constituencies of many other hon. Members. Those mothers have particular problems, trying to hold down a job of 16 to 20 hours a week to qualify for help, and they are under tremendous strain, which in turn leads to breakdowns in their health. Voluntary sector groups used to fill the gap, and sometimes they can, but mostly they cannot. Such a mother is under pressure, worried about DLA and the effect on her son, and about her increasing child care costs. Those problems multiply. I want to make a quick mention of Home-Start, a charity at home in my constituency and many others, which does marvellous work and can look after a child for a year for £422. Where else could anyone get that?

In conclusion, there is a degree of penny wise, pound foolish about what is happening—saving money in the short term, while in the long term there will be no saving. Worse, in the long term families will be pulled apart, disabled people will be isolated and the community will not function as it could, all because the big picture was not looked at. I urge the Minister to rethink the reform at this stage, consider its impact on individual lives, and put in place an efficiency package that saves money without doing it at the expense of decent quality of life.

[Mr Christopher Chope (in the Chair)]

I will reduce the time limit to three minutes now.

15:27

[Meg Hillier (Hackney South and Shoreditch) (Lab/Co-op)]

At a recent AGM of Hackney carers association, carers raised concerns with me about many things. One was the carers allowance, which is only £55.50 a week. I want to ask the Minister to comment on the proposal by some bodies that that should be increased. Many carers in my constituency have been on low incomes for long periods of their lives already. It is not as if they have reserves to fall back on.

I wanted to touch on the general issue of disabled households typically being poorer, often because disability has meant being able to work less over time. Many carers have had to give up jobs to care. I am a former working carer, and I cared for two disabled adults. Annie, who sadly died in October, went to live with her sister, who was also a working carer. The Minister needs to understand that the pressure on carers is immense. As many hon. Members have mentioned, the cumulative impact of many changes can be very complicated.

When I cared for two disabled adults, at one point I dealt with 13 different agencies just to get the basics of care, support and medical support in place. Happily for me, at that time we were not dealing with many changes in the benefit system. I am not saying it was all perfect, but it was at least a stable system. All the changes coming hard on the heels of one another add stress to carers who must navigate through the system in addition to all the other challenges of being a carer. We live in a world now where people should be able to work and care, but we make it more difficult for them to do it. When I was a working carer my husband’s cousin was a carer for her sister. We worked because we had to—to pay bills and pay for our families. There was no option for us. Many people have taken the option of not working, and that has considerably reduced their household income.

I want to touch briefly on the work done by Contact a Family in my constituency, and ask the Minister to comment on the disability addition under universal credit, which seems to cut the weekly tax credit for families with a disabled child from £57 to £28. The issues for families with children are immense. If we do not get this right now, it says bad things about what our society wants to do for disabled people. Those families want to ensure that their children have the best start in life to increase their chances of independent living later on. Without proper support in the early stages, families can break down under the immense pressure. As we know, many marriages struggle under the strain of coping with a disabled child. I urge the Minister to comment on that point and to look more widely at the work of organisations such as Contact a Family, which, by the way, is quite supportive of some of the Government changes, but has some particular points that I urge the Minister to consider.

15:29

[Mr Iain McKenzie (Inverclyde) (Lab)]

It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Mr Chope. I congratulate my hon. Friend the Member for Gateshead (Ian Mearns) on securing this important debate. There can be no doubt that the UK Government’s programme of welfare reform will have a devastating impact on the incomes and well-being of thousands of disabled people in Scotland and the rest of the UK.

One common theme runs across the many different types of benefits, and that is that “reform” means “cuts in income”, and disabled people are among the most badly affected. Next year, disabled people will feel the effects of even more stringent cuts. According to the impact assessment of the Tory-led coalition, the Government expect 500,000 people to lose PIP by 2015-16, compared with what would have happened under DLA. The reality is that the Government are trying to mould a benefit around these cuts, rather than around the needs of individual disabled people.

A Citizens Advice report in Scotland has estimated that the replacement of the disability living allowance with personal independence payments will require 225,000 working-age DLA claimants in Scotland to undergo an assessment, with some 75,000 in danger of losing their entitlement. Capability Scotland notes that all PIP claimants, including

“those with complex learning disabilities, severely visually impaired people, double amputees and deaf people”

will be assessed by an independent medical officer.

To reduce the number of claimants, everyone on DLA will have an Atos test. Where do I start with Atos? Many people fear the Atos test, and with good reason. In fact, my constituents believe that Atos stands for “another Tory oppressive system”. I tell them that that is not the case, because that would be letting off the Lib Dems too lightly. We are told that 40% of Atos test decisions were wrong and have been overturned on appeal. In my constituency of Inverclyde, the percentage is significantly higher; something like 60% of cases are overturned. I know that colleagues have had many frightened and worried constituents contact them about the medical assessment process.

The UK Government plan to halve tax credits for disabled children. The carers, too, will be hit hard. Welfare cuts will push families caring for ill or disabled relatives to crisis point. As the financial pressure on carers grows, there is the increasing risk that they will be unable to continue to care for their loved ones.

We have a Government who, while slashing the welfare budget, provide a £40,000 tax break for millionaires. The Government’s Welfare Reform Act 2012 crosses the basic line of decency.

15:33

[Barbara Keeley (Worsley and Eccles South) (Lab)]

I congratulate my hon. Friend the Member for Gateshead (Ian Mearns) on securing this debate and on the way in which he opened it. In the little time I have, I want to focus on the carers of people with disabilities.

Carers’ organisations have told me that they fear that the welfare reform measures proposed by this Government will seriously undermine the ability of carers to care for people with disabilities and for older family members. On the reform of the disability living allowance, the Government’s original impact assessment said:

“We expect that the introduction of Personal Independence Payment will not affect the overall size of the Carer’s Allowance population”,

but analysis by Carers UK shows that there will undoubtedly be a knock-on effect on those who claim carer’s allowance. If the number of claimants of the allowance falls, as it moves to PIP, in line with the caseload for DLA, Carers UK estimate that 23,800 carers will be unable to claim carer’s allowance.

On the housing benefit cap, it seems clear that around 5,000 households that will be capped in 2013-14 are expected to contain a carer. Those carers will see an average reduction in income of £105 a week. That is quite clearly at odds with the Government’s stated policy for the cap.

Around 1 million carers have either given up work or reduced their working hours in order to care. An average drop in income of £105 per week is a cruel way to treat carers who have given up their careers. It could also be counter-productive, in that it could make caring for a family member financially untenable and force more people into taking up the option of care homes or residential homes.

Many carers already face financial hardship. A survey of carers by Carers UK found that 45% of them were cutting back on essentials such as heating or food, and four in 10 were in debt as a result of caring. Carers are not choosing to give up work, but being forced into doing so by the crisis in social care. Carers UK found in a survey that 31% of working age carers gave up work or reduced their working hours to care because support services were not flexible enough, the person for whom they cared did not qualify for support, there were no suitable services in the area, or the services were too expensive or not reliable enough. There is not time now to go through how care charges have gone up.

In an earlier debate on social care, I talked about the impact of financial issues on the lives of carers. I have heard of one carer who had to take on a part-time cleaning job in the early evening because money was so tight. She puts her husband to bed at 4pm so that he is safe while she is at work. That is the reality.

[Grahame M. Morris]

Does my hon. Friend agree that it is a case not just of money—pounds and pence—but of the dignity of disabled people?

[Barbara Keeley]

Indeed it is. The House of Commons has received reports that criticise care agencies for putting people to bed at 6 o’clock or 8 o’clock. This carer has to put her husband to bed at 4 o’clock. How must that feel to her? I have had further evidence that shows that that is not an isolated example. It is very common for carers who can no longer afford respite care to have to leave a person, perhaps wearing an incontinence pad, and hope that they will be safe in a chair while the carer has a hospital appointment or goes to work.

I question whether anyone here believes that it is right or fair to hit carers with further cuts to their income when changes already made by this Government are clearly hitting them. The manager of my local carers centre in Salford told me that, this Christmas, the centre’s staff are collecting and distributing food parcels to carers. That is something that they have not had to do since the 1980s. She said, “This does not bode well.” It does not, and it should not be happening to carers, who already give so much. I call on the Minister for a rethink on welfare reform for carers.

15:37

[John McDonnell (Hayes and Harlington) (Lab)]

Sometimes our role as MPs is to bear witness, so it is important that the words spoken by people with disabilities and their carers are put on the record. Professor Peter Beresford of Brunel university, working as the chair of Shaping Our Lives, the national disabled people’s and service users’ organisation network, undertook a massive survey of people with disabilities and their carers. The Spartacus report was published earlier this year, and has now been revamped. I just want to quote a few brief statements from people with disabilities. This is one person’s family member:

“John is so severely disabled he has to wear nappies and is fed through a tube. He is blind and deaf, cannot speak, suffers frequent seizures and requires 24-hour care. But he has now been told by a Government decision maker that he is ‘capable of work’ — and that he is no longer entitled to benefits. Family members have contacted officials who say that an appeal against the decision will have to be lodged.”

What happens when those appeals take place? Let me quote a person with a disability:

“It’s like doing a crime. I am a human being who needs additional support but here I am facing a panel who are making a decision on my life. I am tired of fighting officials who seem to think they know more about my disabilities and needs than I do. It now makes me feel ashamed of who I am. I am being punished for being disabled and feel powerless.”

What happens in the assessment itself? Here is a quote from a wife:

“I can honestly say there are lies that go into that assessment. I do shorthand and I took down word for word my husband’s whole assessment. What actually came back was practically the opposite of everything he said.”

Let me quote another claimant:

“They are now ordering claimants (and their companions) to surrender any notes they have taken during the interview. Before the assessment even began, both I and my companion were warned that we had to first agree first to hand over our notes at the end of the assessment. We were told that the notes would be photocopied and stored on a database. I was told that the penalty for refusing to agree to this condition was the immediate termination of the assessment.”

The implicit warning was that they would lose benefits.

What happens in the administration of these benefits? I will give another example. The client’s husband is in hospital in a coma. He was sent an ESA50 form. The client contacted the Department for Work and Pensions to explain the situation, and was asked to obtain a letter from the hospital confirming that the client’s husband was in a coma. The client did so, and sent it to Atos rather than the local benefit disability centre. The client was then sent a letter saying that they had failed to return the appropriate form and the client’s husband was no longer entitled to the benefit.

Let me save the final words for Karen Sherlock, 44. She was put in a work-related activity group. She was required to attend interviews. She suffered from a whole range of conditions. Her husband Nigel said it was a disgrace that she was refused benefits. Last year, she lost the long process of appeal against the decision. In April 2012, as a result of the time-limiting of employment and support allowance to one year, she lost her benefits. She won her appeal a few weeks later and was finally put in the support group. She died eight days later, on 8 June.

Read the Spartacus report. It gives example after example of the inhumane treatment of people with disabilities and their families. It shames any Government to treat people in this way.

[Mr Christopher Chope (in the Chair)]

Order. I call Ann McGuire.

15:40

[Mrs Anne McGuire (Stirling) (Lab)]

Thank you very much, Mr Chope, for calling me to speak. It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship.

I thank the many Members who have made a contribution to this debate, and indeed I also thank the many Members who sat here in Westminster Hall but did not speak; they did not make a contribution but wanted to show their support for my hon. Friend the Member for Gateshead (Ian Mearns), who promoted today’s debate very successfully.

I have to say, in passing, that rarely have I seen a Government Minister so ill-supported by people on her side. Frankly, she is supported more by the number of officials with her than by Back Benchers.

I also thank the many organisations that have given us briefings, and indeed would probably have given briefings to many MPs from all parties. They include Scope, the Muscular Dystrophy Campaign, the British Medical Association, the Disabled People Against Cuts, the Hardest Hit campaign, Rethink, Action for Children, Disability Rights UK, Mind, Pat’s Petition, the Gateshead Carers Association and the Gateshead Citizens Advice Bureau, which of course are in the constituency of my hon. Friend the Member for Gateshead, Carers UK, and the National Association of Citizens Advice Bureaux.

Many Members have commented on the Chancellor’s statement of 22 June 2010, in which he said that the Government would not grind the poorest into the ground. Frankly, what a difference two years has made. This is the same Chancellor who is now looking for more cuts from the Department for Work and Pensions. As many colleagues have said, there are many hidden costs to being disabled, which do not always compute.

[Yvonne Fovargue (Makerfield) (Lab)]

Does my right hon. Friend agree that one of the costs that has not been mentioned today is the additional cost of child care for a child with a disability, the benefit for which is being reduced under universal credit?

[Mrs McGuire]

Yes, and because of the width of the spectrum of impact that we are having to deal with, it has been very difficult to highlight every particular aspect of that impact. I thank my hon. Friend for raising that issue.

There is a hidden accumulation of disadvantages that this Government have consistently tried to hide, in the face of the evidence that has been presented to them over the past two years by some of the organisations that I referred to.

The Minister told me last week in response to my question about a cumulative impact assessment—I think this was mentioned earlier by my hon. Friend the Member for Edinburgh East (Sheila Gilmore)—that there had never been a cumulative impact assessment under Labour, as if that somehow absolved her from undertaking a cumulative impact assessment. I find that an astonishing answer, because no Government—neither Conservative nor Labour—have ever launched such a torrent of changes, with such a speed of change, in the way that this Government have done in tackling the support that we give to disabled people. I worked with disabled people during the premiership of Baroness Thatcher, and frankly I have never seen anything like this—never.

According to the figures, disabled people have dropped at least a massive £500 million in income since that emergency Budget statement two years ago, when the Chancellor said that he would not be breaking the backs of the poorest in our society. The cuts to the incomes of disabled households go up to more than £2,000 a year; they vary, depending on individual circumstances.

We can see what the impact of those cuts is. There has been the imposition of the 12-month rule on employment and support allowance, a benefit that is intended to support people who are too ill or too disabled to work. The Government were so stubborn that they would not even accept an Opposition proposal to extend ESA to two years, to give people the opportunity either to adapt to a long-term disability or to receive the treatment that they needed to take them out of illness. That change is underpinned by a flawed work capability assessment, which states that disabled people are ready for work when they are palpably not ready; we have heard examples of that today.

I agree with my hon. Friend the Member for Gateshead that we should not just attack Atos. There are issues to do with Atos and the professionalism with which it is conducting some of the assessments, but we should pin the responsibility on the Ministers who are supposed to be managing the Atos contract. If it is not the Ministers who are responsible—as is the way with this Government—there will be a civil servant somewhere who will have to accept some responsibility.

We have an appeals service that is logjammed, and many people, after months of uncertainty, find that their benefits are restored. Sometimes that happens—this shows the bizarre economics of this situation—after they have had their Motability car repossessed; several months later, they find that they are to get it back again. What sort of economics is that?

Although I welcomed some of the mitigation, or easement, that the Minister announced in the changes to the personal independence payment, there are still many descriptors that are causing concern. I appreciate that the Minister has only a few minutes to respond to the debate, but perhaps she will share with us details of where the new descriptors in activity 12 come from. It looks as though the 12 points needed for the enhanced mobility rate can be achieved solely by people who have only a physical impairment and who are not able to stand or move more than 20 metres. Perhaps she can tell the House how many people will lose access to their Motability vehicles as a result of this further tightening of the gateway. I point out to her that even in the 1970s disabled people qualified for those little blue single-seater cars if they were able to move more than 20 metres, aided or unaided. Talk about back to the future.

From April next year, families with disabled children will receive £1,300 less than they would receive under the current system. It is estimated that about 450,000 families will lose out under universal credit. Until the last couple of weeks, the Government gave the distinct impression—this was a clever dodge—that if a carer was in the same household as a disabled adult child, their carer’s allowance would not be included in the benefit cap. The Government have now had to admit that an adult disabled person will be assessed as being in a different household from their parents’ household.

Before the Minister says to me, “That’s always been the way; when an adult reaches the age of maturity, or the age at which they can receive benefits in their own right, they are a separate household”, I accept that is true, but what we never did—indeed, what no Government ever did before—was decouple a carer’s allowance from the disabled person whom it is intended to help. That is what this Government are doing.

I say to the Minister in all honesty that if this Government are so sure that what they are doing is right, and that, as the hon. Member for South East Cornwall (Sheryll Murray) said, they have the best intentions as regards disabled people, why in heaven’s name will they not carry out a cumulative impact assessment? I have said this to the Minister and to the previous Minister, who is now the Secretary of State for Culture, Media and Sport: it is surely not beyond the wit of the best brains in the DWP to come up with a cumulative impact assessment that will prove either the Government’s case or ours.

15:48

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Work and Pensions (Esther McVey)]

It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Mr Chope. I thank the hon. Member for Gateshead (Ian Mearns) for securing this debate on such an important issue, and I welcome all contributions to the debate about how our welfare reforms will better support disabled people, their carers and their families.

The UK has a proud history of furthering the rights of disabled people and I am pleased to say that, even in these very tough economic times, the Government continue to spend around £50 billion a year on disabled people and their services, to enable those who face the greatest barriers to participate fully in society. That compares well internationally. We spend almost double the OECD average, as a percentage of our gross domestic product, with only Norway and Iceland out of the 34 OECD countries spending more, and we spend a fifth more than the European average. More money will be spent on disability living allowance and the personal independence payment in every year up to 2015-16 than was spent in 2009-10.

We are world leaders in dealing with people with disabilities, but we should not be complacent, because disabled people are not a static group and we have to support them every which way we can. Some 3.2 million disabled people are on DLA and, over a year, the impairments of a third of them will change. Some people might get worse, and some will stay the same, but some will improve and get better and will no longer get the benefit as they will not be entitled to it. We will, however, support those who need support, or more support. The Government are committed to enabling disabled people to fulfil their potential and play a full part in society, but money needs to be targeted more effectively to ensure that support continues to be available to those who need it most, that there is a lasting impact, and that interventions provide a fair deal for the taxpayer.

Nearly half of disabled people are in work. Only 9% of working-age disabled people, and only 5% of those over the age of 25, have never worked. If we want to make a sustainable difference, we must do all we can to help more disabled people who can work to get into mainstream employment, and support them to stay in work. We know that many disabled people want to work but feel that the risk of losing their benefits is too great. By simplifying the benefits system and ensuring that work pays, universal credit will remove the financial risks involved in taking the first steps back into employment, and will increase the incentives of working, even if that work is for just a few hours a week. Universal credit will provide unconditional support to disabled people who are not expected to do any work.

Disability living allowance is an outdated benefit that has not been fundamentally reformed since it was introduced in 1992, and both sides of the House agreed that a change was needed. The reforms present an opportunity to start afresh, keeping the best elements of DLA that disabled people value, but bringing the benefit up to date and making it fit for the 21st century.

[Debbie Abrahams]

Does the Minister think that articles 19 and 20 of the United Nations convention on the rights of persons with disabilities are compromised by what the Government are doing in, for example, removing the Motability allowance from about 500,000 people?

[Esther McVey]

Of course we do not believe that the rights of disabled people are compromised. As I said at the start of my speech, we aim to strengthen and support them in every way we can.

The personal independence payment will be easier to understand and administer, and will be financially sustainable and more objective—the payment has not been so to date. It will be better targeted at those in most need. Throughout the development of the payment, we have consulted widely with disabled people and have used their views to inform policy design. It has taken more than two years of intense consultation, of listening and of working to adjust the criteria and the assessment, to get it right. We listened to people’s concerns about the speed of reassessments and, as I announced last week, we will now carry out a slower reassessment timetable to ensure that we get it right. The peak period of reassessments will not start until October 2015. Furthermore, the Government confirmed in last week’s autumn statement that disability benefits will continue to be uprated in line with inflation.

Carers provide an invaluable service to some of the most vulnerable people in our communities, and we want to ensure that they continue to get the support they need. We have committed to linking carer’s allowance to receipt of either rate of the daily living component of PIP, which is an important safeguard for carers. Our earlier analysis indicated that the link to PIP would result in broadly the same number of carers being entitled to carer’s allowance, even though there would be some churn between those who are newly entitled and others losing entitlement. Now that we have finalised the PIP assessment criteria we are, of course, considering that, and our objective remains to ensure that people caring for those with the greatest need get the right level of support.

[Barbara Keeley]

The Minister is right to comment on carers, but does she see how deeply unfair it is to apply the benefit cap to them? They will lose £105 a week. This stuff about households and the way in which they are defined is just nonsense; 5,000 carers should not lose out.

[Esther McVey]

I will explain to the hon. Lady why the changes have to be brought about. At the moment, there are 1 million spare bedrooms, 250,000 households living in overcrowded conditions and 1.8 million households on the waiting list, so we have a size criterion in the private sector, and we must get this right. We have to support people. We have to work with what we have, and we will introduce the changes because we have to get this right—it has not been right, and the previous Government left it to get into this predicament.

[Barbara Keeley]

rose—

[Esther McVey]

I will not give way.

Work must always pay more than benefits, and that is why we are introducing the cap on the amount of benefits that working-age people can receive. It is not reasonable or fair that people out of work can get an income from benefits that is greater than the average weekly wage for working households. We understand, however, that disabled people face extra costs, and that is why we are exempting from the cap households receiving DLA, PIP or the support component of the employment and support allowance.

It is fair that the benefits system should support people in public housing in the same way as it does those in private housing, but we have made changes to the housing benefit regulations, in recognition of the fact that some people need an additional room for an overnight carer who lives elsewhere. We have also listened to concerns about disabled people living in significantly adapted accommodation, and have announced additional discretionary housing payment funding of £30 million for 2013-14, to cover both that group and foster carers.

Instead of simply cutting money from everyone, we chose the more difficult but principled option of modernising the benefit and focusing support where it is needed most. PIP will be awarded on the basis of fair, consistent and objective assessments, and such assessments are not in place at the moment. The assessments have taken two years to develop. We consulted with disabled people and made key changes as we received their feedback.

Although they are different assessments that will work in different ways, we have learned from the experiences of the work capability assessment—something that the Opposition brought in—and we had to introduce Professor Harrington, who produced recommendations that we are still working through, to get this right. That will enable us more accurately and consistently to ensure that support is targeted at those who face the greatest barriers to leading independent lives. More than a fifth of PIP recipients will get both of the highest rates, worth £134.40 a week, compared with only 16% of those who are on DLA at the moment.

[Julie Hilling (Bolton West) (Lab)]

I thank the Minister for giving way when time is so short. I have listened carefully to everything she has said, and what I do not understand, at the end of it, is this: why will disabled people be financially worse off, when she says that everything in the garden is rosy? I truly do not understand how she can say that, when every day on which we have a surgery we face people coming in to say how they are suffering under the Government’s policies. I do not understand—

[Mr Christopher Chope (in the Chair)]

Order. That is enough.

[Esther McVey]

Once universal credit has been introduced, many disabled families will receive more support than they do now, with the higher rate of support for all disabled children who are registered blind, for example. Households with one or more disabled adults will keep up to £647 a month—some £7,000 a year—of their earnings before seeing any reduction. Universal credit also offers a more flexible system for people whose condition and ability to work fluctuate. No one whose circumstances remain the same will lose out in cash terms as a direct result of the move to universal credit—there will be protection.

As we have talked about the cumulative impact, I will say that we have published impact assessments on reforms to workplace pensions, the child support regulations, automatic enrolment, PIP, universal credit and the benefit cap—the list continues. Labour embarked on a number of reforms, including moving from incapacity benefit to employment and support allowance, the introduction of local housing, and changes for lone parents, on which no cumulative impact assessments were done, as the hon. Member for Edinburgh East (Sheila Gilmore) and the right hon. Member for Stirling (Mrs McGuire) said. It would have been far simpler to do a cumulative impact assessment, but because of the shift and the fact that the measures will not be in place until 2017-18 we have taken the advice that such an assessment would not be possible in its entirety. These are principled reforms, and we should all be proud that we are delivering them.

Votes for 16 and 17-year-olds

Tuesday 18th December 2012 Westminster Hall

16:00

[Julie Elliott (Sunderland Central) (Lab)]

I am grateful for the opportunity to discuss this important issue, and I thank you, Mr Chope, for allowing me to open the debate, in which I will call for the voting age to be lowered to 16. It is a pleasure to do so under your chairmanship.

I am grateful to be granted this debate and to initiate discussion about an issue that many people across the country are currently considering. As Members know, the Scottish Government recently announced that, in the upcoming referendum of autumn 2014, 16 and 17-year-olds will be able to take part in the ballot. That decision to lower the voting age will enfranchise 8.2% of the UK’s 16 and 17-year-olds. The decision has reignited the issue of votes at 16 at a national level.

With that in mind, it seems the right time to reconsider lowering the voting age to 16 in all elections and referendums held in the UK. It would be wrong to send the message that it is right for some of the UK’s 16 and 17-year-olds to be deemed capable of voting while others are not. In July 2012, the devolved Welsh Assembly, in a debate on the issue, voted on a motion expressing support for lowering the voting age to 16 that had cross-party support.

The Minister will know that constitutional reform, including lowering the voting age, is not devolved and, therefore, the responsibility for making that happen still rests with the UK Government. For the sake of a more equal, inclusive political system across the whole UK, the Government and the Electoral Commission must consider extending the right to vote to 16 and 17-year-olds across the country. With recent developments, this seems the opportune time to start revisiting the issue.

In our society, we rightly demand respect from young people and often require them to act and behave like adults. At the same time, however, society should respect young people’s views and aspirations.

[Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)]

Does the hon. Lady agree that allowing 16 and 17-year-olds to vote would enable engagement with younger people, by allowing the House to hear what they want us to do for them?

[Julie Elliott]

I could not agree more with that valuable point, which I will address.

Some 16 and 17-year-olds hold positions of great responsibility and already contribute much to our society, and they should be given the opportunity to influence key decisions that directly affect their lives and communities. We should ensure that they and their issues are represented.

In law, as a society, we already allow 16 and 17-year-olds to give full consent to medical treatment, to leave school and enter work or training, to pay income tax and national insurance, to obtain tax credits and welfare benefits in their own right, to consent to sexual relationships, to get married or enter a civil partnership, to change their name by deed poll, to become a director of a company, to join the armed forces and to become a member of a trade union or co-operative society. Granting them the vote would align their responsibilities with their rights as citizens. Surely, it cannot be right that we ask a young man or woman to serve their country bravely by joining the armed forces without recognising their contribution or giving them the choice to influence their future in return.

There is an old American saying: no taxation without representation. As a citizen benefiting from this country, 16 and 17-year-olds are expected to pay tax yet, by being excluded from the right to vote, they have no say on how that money is spent. With rights come responsibilities, but it should work both ways: with responsibilities should come rights.

Across the country, 16 and 17-year-olds are demonstrating that they can make such complex decisions and take on wide-ranging responsibilities. They are actively showing, in practice, their willingness to make a positive difference and contribution to our society. We should give them the chance to make a difference by empowering them further through recognising their right to influence decisions that will affect their future. That is also reflected in public opinion. In a recent poll carried out by The Daily Telegraph, 53% of the population said that they are in favour of lowering the voting age to 16.

I pay tribute to the fantastic work of the Votes at 16 coalition on promoting and raising awareness of the issue. The coalition is made up of more than 70 organisations, including the British Youth Council, the Children’s Rights Alliance for England, the Trades Union Congress, the Co-operative and the National Union of Students.

Lowering the voting age to 16 would further encourage youth democratic engagement. There are more than 1.5 million 16 and 17-year-olds in this country.

As the Member of Parliament for Sunderland Central, I often visit schools in my constituency to talk to students and young people about my job and what it means to represent them. The 16 and 17-year-olds I have met on such visits have shown that they are knowledgeable and interested in the world around them—from the Arab spring in the middle east and the effects of climate change to youth provisions in their own neighbourhoods. They are also passionate people: passionate to learn more and to participate. They have demonstrated to me that they are more than capable of engaging with the democratic system, as much as any other citizen.

[Susan Elan Jones (Clwyd South) (Lab)]

Does my hon. Friend agree that one of the problems that we have in this country is voter turnout? When I was elected, turnout was 65% of those on the electoral register; in the first election in the area in which I voted, turnout was 83%. That is one of the important reasons, as sixth-form students at Ysgol Dinas Brân, who put me through my paces at election time, reminded me.

[Julie Elliott]

Anything we can do to encourage people to participate is a good thing for our democratic process.

Some 16 and 17-year-olds have carried out their own research into the issue and have ended up lobbying me on my visits about their right to vote. Last month, we saw members of the Youth Parliament take to our usual seats in the House of Commons. More than 300 members from across the UK, elected by their peers, participated in debates. More than 250,000 young people aged between 11 and 18 years old voted for the issues they wanted to see debated, which is a huge increase on the 65,000 votes the previous year. Those young people, representing their peers and their equivalent constituencies, did themselves proud. They were an inspiration to watch and could give some of us a run for our money.

Since the introduction of citizenship classes, that rise in democratic processes among young people is far from unusual. Across the country, thousands of 16 and 17-year-olds are coming together to engage in direct democracy and to encourage community participation and leadership. In the last academic year, more than 590,000 young people voted in youth elections, and 85% of young people now go to a school with a school council that works with staff to make positive improvements to the school. We might also note that both the Labour party and the Conservative party give their members the right to vote for the leader of their political party from the age of 15.

A generation of 16 and 17-year-olds are emerging from the education system well equipped to understand, engage and participate in democracy. Every 16-year-old receiving school education will have completed citizenship classes, so they know and understand the principles of democracy. We would, of course, hope that lowering the voting age will further their interest in politics. Turnouts are already low among young people in our elections. Engaging them earlier in the process would, I hope, raise participation, thereby helping to raise turnouts in elections.

[Julie Hilling (Bolton West) (Lab)]

At a recent meeting of the all-party group on youth affairs, where the issue was debated, a small number of the young people present did not believe that they should have the vote at 16, but the main reason that they gave was that young people do not have enough knowledge. Does my hon. Friend agree that if they do not have the knowledge at 16, when they have left education, they will be no more knowledgeable at 18? Giving them the vote would put much more onus on people to teach young people about politics at an earlier age.

[Julie Elliott]

I could not agree more. If having enough knowledge to understand what one is voting about were a prerequisite, it would rule out many people.

[Nic Dakin (Scunthorpe) (Lab)]

My hon. Friend is making a clear case. As somebody who has spent pretty much all my working life with 16 and 17-year-olds, and who has worked for the past two years with Members of Parliament, I must say that 16 and 17-year-olds have as much to say and as much stake in things as we do.

[Julie Elliott]

Absolutely, and they often say it with much more passion and punch than we do. Young people of 16 and 17 know and understand the principles of democracy. We hope that lowering the voting age would further increase their interest in politics. Election turnouts among young people are already low. We would raise participation.

Many countries have already granted their young people the right to vote, albeit with some conditions, including the Isle of Man, Austria, Brazil, Germany and Norway. The Council of Europe’s Parliamentary Assembly has also urged the Committee of Ministers to encourage member states to reconsider the age-related restrictions placed on voting rights, to encourage young people’s participation in political life.

It seems to me that there is a strong case for giving 16 and 17-year-olds the right to vote. I will therefore discuss briefly what I would like to see happen to progress the issue. I believe that the Government should consider improving citizenship education for young people, to be followed by a free vote in Parliament on reducing the voting age to 16. Indeed, the Labour party pledged to do so in our 2010 manifesto.

I entirely support citizenship classes, but I believe that they could be improved yet further. I would like to see the Government commission a report on how best to improve and expand citizenship education to raise standards, with the intention of making parliamentary time available to debate it. I would then like to see a commitment to providing a free vote in Parliament on lowering the voting age to 16.

I recently tabled some parliamentary questions to the Deputy Prime Minister about what representations had been received on the issue and what research had been commissioned recently. I was disappointed to be informed in the answer from the Cabinet Office that no recent research has been undertaken or commissioned and that there is no consensus within the Government for lowering the voting age to 16.

I remind the Minister that the Liberal Democrats made a commitment in their 2010 manifesto to introduce voting rights from the age of 16. I hope that she will consider my arguments for lowering the voting age and for commissioning research into the matter.

[Wayne David (Caerphilly) (Lab)]

My hon. Friend mentioned that there was no commitment in the Conservative party’s manifesto or the coalition agreement, but that has not stopped the coalition from coming forward with ideas that were not part of the agreement. Surely, it could do so here.

[Julie Elliott]

That is a good point.

Lowering the voting age to 16 will inspire young people to get involved in our democracy and extend the rights due to them. Our 16 and 17-year-olds are ready and willing to participate in our democratic system. The next step is surely to grant votes at 16, which would empower young people to engage better in society and influence the decisions that will affect their future.

16:09

[The Parliamentary Secretary, Cabinet Office (Miss Chloe Smith)]

I congratulate and thank the hon. Member for Sunderland Central (Julie Elliott) for securing this debate and for her considered remarks. I also thank other colleagues for their contributions.

It falls to me to respond to some of the questions that she raised, and I am happy to do so. I start by noting what has already been noted: Parliament has taken no fixed view over time on the question whether the voting age should be lowered to 16. Many Members hold diverging views on both ends of the spectrum, often passionately. It is fair to say that those differences reflect a divergence of opinion in wider society; I simply do not think that there is an open-and-shut case for us to discuss.

I shall tackle head-on the comments about my right hon. Friend the Deputy Prime Minister. He has made clear on several occasions his personal view that he would like votes at 16, and that is the view of his party. His views are shared by many not only in his party but across the House. For my own part and that of the Conservative party, I happen to disagree. I have yet to be convinced by the evidence available, although I look forward to drawing it out somewhat in the few minutes available to me. I am far from alone in suggesting that position. The most recent research that I am aware of, which I shall come to in a second, backs that up in that it shows that people remain to be convinced of the merits of the case.

On the points made by Members, the Votes at 16 coalition circulated a briefing to all hon. Members before this debate that clearly set out a range of arguments in favour of lowering the voting age to 16: 16-year-olds can leave school, get a job and pay tax on their earnings, marry and join the armed forces. The last point gives me cause to dwell on the list for a second. It can be done only with parental consent, and Ministry of Defence policy is that no one under 18 will take part in combat. The situation is by no means as straightforward as a simple reading out of the list of ages would suggest.

[Wayne David]

Will the Minister explain the Government’s thinking? If they accept that 16 and 17-year-olds can vote in the referendum on Scottish independence, why can 16 and 17-year-olds not vote in elections more generally? What is the difference?

[Miss Smith]

The hon. Gentleman is as mischievous as ever. He knows very well that, in the case that he has just cited, it is the desire of the Scottish Government that that should be the franchise for the referendum. The Government of whom I am a part are led by the Prime Minister, who signed an agreement with the First Minister and Deputy First Minister of Scotland that we shall enable a referendum to take place for Scotland. That is quite a different thing, and it remains UK Government policy that the franchise should be for those 18 years old and over.

[Sheila Gilmore (Edinburgh East) (Lab)]

Does the Minister not feel that there might be some dangers in conceding as the Government have done in Scotland—in a way that might not be as well controlled as if the Electoral Commission had had full control—rather than doing so properly for the country as a whole? That would have been the right way to proceed.

[Miss Smith]

The UK Government’s view is that many things would be better if we were to stay together as a United Kingdom. That might be one of the many questions that should be raised in the next two years of the campaign. However, the hon. Lady raises a wise point in the context of the debate. The Scottish Government have sought that franchise and Westminster has agreed a memorandum of understanding enabling them to do so, but there is no consensus within the UK Government on the age of franchise overall.

The hon. Member for Sunderland Central rightly spoke of the many things that society seeks to enable 16-year-olds to do, but I wish to balance that by noting the many things that society and Parliament do not believe that 16 and 17-year-olds should yet be able to do. They include smoking, buying alcohol, placing a bet, standing for election and serving on a jury. The fact is that there is no standard age of majority in the United Kingdom and no single point at which one moves from being a child to being an adult. That may be a matter for debate in itself, but it is right to note that the rights and responsibilities that we accord young people in society build over time. There is no single on-off switch.

I am familiar with the argument, repeated in the Votes at 16 coalition briefing, that allowing 16 and 17-year-olds to vote would help engage young people in our democracy and political processes at an earlier age. I should like to mention some of the evidence available. I remain unconvinced that we might achieve that worthy aim by this method. I am all for young people taking part in politics—I hope that any hon. Member who observed the age at which I entered the House appreciates that—but we have to do lots of things to achieve more young people being involved in politics; it is not only a matter of the voting age.

Let me turn to a couple of points of evidence. First, the Youth Citizenship Commission, which the previous Government set up, looked at ways to develop young people’s understanding of citizenship and increase their participation in politics. As part of that, it considered whether the voting age should be lowered to 16. It reported in summer 2009 and felt unable to make a recommendation on whether the voting age should be lowered. It suggested that there was a lack of evidence available regarding the merits of votes at 16 and noted that there were, as I have already said, vigorous and strongly held views on either side of the debate. The YCC’s view was that the voting age is not the principal factor in encouraging young people’s interest and involvement in politics and citizenship.

Many wise points are made in the YCC report, but it did not find significant evidence on which to base a recommendation. I am sure that all hon. Members agree about what it set out to consider: civic awareness, understanding, maturity of judgment, the place of citizenship education, the impact on turnout and responsible voting, the impact on young people’s perceptions and civic activity and the administrative issues that would go with such a change, all of which are valuable elements in that research and in the debate that we ought to have if we had longer than half an hour. The YCC found that

“the issue is not the principal factor in encouraging young people’s interest and involvement in politics and citizenship.”

Where else might we turn for evidence? I am also interested in a YouGov poll released in November 2009, shortly after the YCC report, done for the Citizenship Foundation, which I am sure all hon. Members have worked with in their time as parliamentarians. It does much good work. The poll looked at 14 to 25-year-olds. The point that I want to draw out of it is that, although it might be expected that 16-year-olds would say, “Yes, please. I am interested in majority and the vote,” as per the figures that the hon. Lady used, in that category of 14 to 25-year-olds—some on either side of the grouping—54% are against, 31% are for and 15% do not know. Those figures should provoke enough thought to cause us to stop and consider not only the range of views, but the high number of those who do not know, which is a matter that we might discuss.

The hon. Lady mentioned turnout, as did the hon. Member for Clwyd South (Susan Elan Jones). We all want higher turnout and greater participation in the electoral process, but a relevant fact here is that, since the 1997 election, turnout among 18 to 24-year-olds, who can vote, has fallen from 51% to 44%. Registration among young people is lower than for other population groups. Far be it from me to rest this debate on a point of mathematics—no doubt, the hon. Member for Scunthorpe (Nic Dakin) will realise this—but if participation followed what we see already in that most youthful age bracket, turnout overall would fall, and that would not be the outcome that we were focusing on. That is a dry maths point, but the broader point is there and can be brought to life for people. We do not want lower turnout. We want turnout to be higher. Is lowering the voting age the tool to achieve that? I am yet to be convinced of that, but this debate does good work in addressing the matter.

An issue of engagement goes far beyond the franchise. We in the Government are trying to deal with that among some of the other activities that we are running. For example, in the pilots of the Bite the Ballot programme, we are talking to young people in schools and colleges— I was with a group in Norwich doing that in the past few weeks—about the importance of registering to vote. That is in the context of individual electoral registration. I am amazed that the hon. Member for Caerphilly (Wayne David) has not yet mentioned that this afternoon, but I should be delighted to take it up whenever he wishes. All hon. Members agree that it is important that the individual right and responsibility to register and to vote should be treated carefully and wisely.

[Wayne David]

The Minister has provoked me. She mentions consultation with Bite the Ballot, for example. Surely she will have picked up that that organisation, like all the others that she has engaged with regarding individual electoral registration, supports votes at 16. Have they not persuaded her yet?

[Miss Smith]

I am afraid that they have not. I look forward to hearing a conclusive argument, if there is one, that takes the majority of society with it. I must return to the point that we in Parliament seek to represent our constituents. I could not honestly say that a majority of my constituents would want me to support votes at 16. I do not think that that is so. There is wide spread of views throughout society. Some of the stats that I have mentioned back that up and give us food for thought. There is no single magic bullet for increasing youth engagement in politics. The franchise is but one factor, as the Youth Citizenship Commission shows.

[Wayne David]

For me, the bottom line is that, if a young person aged 16 can give full consent to medical treatment, leave school and enter work or training, pay income tax and national insurance, obtain tax credits and welfare benefits in their own right, consent to sexual relationships, get married or enter a civil partnership, change their name by deed poll—

[Mr Christopher Chope (in the Chair)]

Order. Interventions must be brief.

[Wayne David]

I am just coming to the end. They may also join the armed forces and become a company director. Surely, if all those things apply, logically, why should voting be exempt?

[Miss Smith]

Mr Chope, if I had more time than you might allow me, the direct answer would be that that is because the following things do not apply when a person is 16: holding a licence to drive any vehicle, except certain heavy ones, engaging in street trading, holding an air rifle, etc. I do not wish simply to read out the other half of the list. The point is that, as I have said, a range of activities signal majority from 16 through to 18. Indeed, there are eight of them, on certain counts.

[Nic Dakin]

I compliment the Minister on her engaging contribution to the debate. However, I have not heard any reason for not giving the vote at 16. I hope that she welcomes an ongoing debate about this, so that we can take it forward together.

[Miss Smith]

I welcome that debate and welcome everything that has gone into this debate. Again, I congratulate the hon. Member for Sunderland Central on securing the debate. I welcome the interest that is regularly shown in this debate by those whom we seek to represent and work with. I welcome that not only as a younger person in politics, but as a person who seeks to have other young people involved in politics, as I seek to take the Electoral Registration and Administration Bill through its remaining parliamentary stages. It is vital that registration and turnout increase in this country. We all seek to achieve that.

I cannot give the hon. Member for Caerphilly an emphatic yes, a tick in the box or franchise on a plate, because I do not think that there is consensus in the country for it. That is not reflected in what our constituents ask us to do. There are divergent views. Accordingly, there is no consensus within the Government on this issue. I shall not hide that fact. It was not included in the coalition agreement for Government, so there are no plans for a change in this Parliament.

I thank the hon. Lady for her constructive suggestions about citizenship education, which I will be sure to pass on to my colleagues in the relevant Departments. I look forward very much to continuing this debate and to all of us doing everything that we can to encourage young people to play the fullest possible part in civic and democratic life.

Outsourcing of Public Services

Tuesday 18th December 2012 Westminster Hall

16:29

[Chris White (Warwick and Leamington) (Con)]

I called for a debate this afternoon on the outsourcing of our public services. I am grateful to Social Enterprise UK, in particular Celia Richardson, for putting together the report, “The Shadow State”, and for raising this important matter and providing fresh insight.

Although politicians can easily become fixated on the high-level discussions in politics, we need to remember that one of the most important roles of government for most people is the provision of high-quality, front-line public services. Over the past 200 years in Britain and throughout the world, Government have become more and more central to the delivery of services vital for millions of people: health care, child care, policing, prisons, helping people back to work, education and transport are just a few of the areas that the public sector reaches. Since 1945, Britain has seen a vast centralisation of such responsibilities away from the local level and from independent organisations and towards central Government. In 2010 prices, the budget has gone from £234 billion in 1945 to £660 billion.

A large proportion of the budget has been spent on public services, and we have seen massive improvements in many areas. I am proud of some of the achievements that have been secured, but we face difficult economic times and cannot expect to keep spending large quantities of money in order to increase the quality of public services. The vast structures of the public sector, which were appropriate in the 1940s and ’50s, are now starting to struggle to deliver the improvements in services and the productivity increases that we need for the decades ahead.

Over the past 20 years, Governments of all colours have increasingly turned to the private sector for delivery of public services, in order to reduce costs and to provide better outcomes. Oxford Economics has estimated that the current outsourced market for public services has an annual turnover of £82 billion, representing 24% of the total spend on goods and services by public services. Rightly, therefore, in July 2011 the Government released their “Open Public Services” White Paper, which sought to lay out the future direction of public services through five key principles: first, wherever possible to increase choice; secondly, to decentralise public services to the lowest appropriate levels; thirdly, to open public services to a range of providers; fourthly, to ensure fair access to public services; and, fifthly, to make public services accountable to users and taxpayers alike.

[Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)]

Is the hon. Gentleman aware that a recent Confederation of British Industry report stated that more opportunity for private and independent sourcing of public services could produce savings of £22.6 billion, while maintaining the quality of service? Is that what we should be looking at?

[Chris White]

I appreciate both the point made by the hon. Gentleman and the CBI’s report. I will be coming to some of those issues later in my comments.

I support those five principles, which I am confident that Members in all parties support as well. The Government have been clear that they are seeking to increase the amount of public services delivered by independent organisations. Seymour Pierce has predicted that the value of the public services sector will increase to £140 billion by 2014. That is a huge amount of public money and, rightly, we should be concentrating on how that money is spent and on how we ensure maximum benefit for our community. A concern, however, is that the principles outlined in the “Open Public Services” White Paper, to make our public services more accountable, more transparent and more in the control of communities, have not been realised in practice.

One deep concern is explained in the Social Enterprise UK report, “The Shadow State”, which has highlighted a significant lack of transparency and accountability, with information from those delivering our public services hard to come by. It also highlighted the increasing dominance of our public services by a small group of large multinational businesses and the difficulties that small business, charities and social enterprises have experienced in accessing provision of our public services.

[Richard Fuller (Bedford) (Con)]

My hon. Friend is a champion of social enterprise in the House, and we pay great tribute to his work. He is making a point about large private sector organisations. Is he, like me, sceptical about the big state, but also sceptical about big private corporations? The Government are making some strides in promoting local organisations, but does he believe they are being somewhat timid in their agenda to promote social enterprise locally?

[Chris White]

My hon. Friend is also a champion of such issues. My speech is about that very subject: the change from public sector monopolies to, perhaps, private sector monopolies. We should be sceptical about that, as he said.

We need to be clear that, if we are opening our public services, we are doing so to achieve what is best for our communities, in a way that gives choice to commissioners and service users and that ensures appropriate levels of accountability. Unless the Government are able to deliver on their principles, we will not get the outcomes that we want from public sector outsourcing.

Over the past two years, through my work on the Public Services (Social Value) Act 2012, I have had the opportunity to speak to many community organisations and social enterprises about the Government proposals for opening up public services. Most are keen to engage in the process and to deliver services that are important to their local community. There appears, however, to be a number of obstacles to their involvement, some of which have been highlighted in the report.

First, the size of many contracts is a problem. I appreciate that commissioning on a large scale can create efficient economies of scale, but those are not the only economies that we should be focusing on; the most useful economy is secured through successful outcomes. Large contracts do not always lead to better outcomes, and can increase costs in the long term. For example, the UK Border Agency issued £1.7 billion in contracts for asylum-seeker services in March this year, but each of the contracts was for more than £100 million, completely locking out our charities, social enterprises and small businesses. The Work programme, in which £3.3 billion of contracts were awarded, saw one quarter of the contracts go to one company. That is not the opening- up of public services. Only a handful of organisations can bid for contracts of such size. More accessible contract sizes would go a long way to change the situation, as well as enabling a larger degree of social value, as such contracts are able to target additional benefits to be created through the commissioning process.

Secondly, there is an issue of governance and transparency. Despite extensive research, it is difficult for the public to access information about many public sector contracts. If I or my constituents have questions about state-delivered public services, we may ask questions in this place or through correspondence with Departments to get the appropriate answer. Private companies, however, are often not so willing or forthcoming with information, leaving a sense of unease among the public. Only greater levels of transparency and accountability can change that. I fully support the Government’s efforts to provide details on public spending over £100,000 at both central and local government level. That transparency should and can be extended to all public service providers. We cannot have one rule for public sector organisations and another for private sector providers. I appreciate that some information will be commercially sensitive, but I am confident that we can find a method that balances the public’s right to know with commercial privacy.

There should also be a central register of public sector contracts, both local and national, that are being provided by independent organisations, whether private sector companies, social enterprises, or charities, both past and present. That should outline the size of the contracts, their length, the expected outcome, and information about their success. All that should be online for ease of public access, and would not involve significant cost, because such information should be collected by commissioners in the regular course of their work. That would enable the public to see not only who is providing what services, but how successful providers have been, and could be a useful tool for commissioners.

The Government have rightly championed the cause of transparency to improve our public services, but that must be carried out across providers. I hope that the Government will work with commissioners, private businesses, charities and social enterprises.

[Richard Fuller]

My hon. Friend is making a good point about the role of national Government and supporting local commissioners. Is there a role for national Government to name and shame commissioners who are too slow in opening up to local providers, and to name those who are doing a good job and are at the forefront of the breakthrough of social enterprise, but shame those who just want the default of taking what had been a public service and giving it to the large national contractors?

[Chris White]

Absolutely. Naming and shaming is always a useful tool in such circumstances. Our commissioners should be encouraged to have a greater sense of urgency in dealing with such matters.

The Government have rightly championed the cause of transparency, and public sector commissioners should take a closer look and a closer interest in the corporate structure of the organisations they are commissioning from. Traditional large multinational companies may have some advantages, but the social enterprise model may also have the potential to deliver better outcomes for our communities. At a time when we are seeking to spend every penny possible on better outcomes, there is concern that traditional private sector models that seek to deliver large returns for shareholders may lead to money seeping out of our public services that might otherwise be spent on improvements to those services.

Social enterprise combines the need to deliver profitability, to innovate and to deliver better outcomes with a sense of community purpose. Not only that, but most social enterprises reinvest their profits either back into the services they provide, or into the communities where they are based. Moreover, through the structure of community interest companies, which are a model that many social enterprises are adopting for public service delivery, communities are directly involved in the governance of the organisation. That gives communities greater levels of accountability than if those services are provided by larger organisations with less accessible governance structures such as multinational corporations. Sometimes that will not be possible, but the Government should encourage commissioners to be creative and to experiment with differing governance needs.

Thirdly, the Treasury can help directly by ensuring that small businesses, social enterprises and charities can have access to the finance they need to bid for these contracts directly. The creation of Big Society Capital has been an excellent example of the Government taking a direct approach to stimulate the social investment market, and social impact bonds also have great potential. However, those methods do not resolve all the issues that are in the way of civil society organisations, which is why the Treasury’s internal review of social investment is so important.

We must ensure that we create a new climate of confidence in the social investment market, so that mainstream lenders and institutional investors feel that they can participate. Big Society Capital is an important step forward, but on its own it will not be able rapidly to expand the social investment market. That will take place only when our banks, pension funds and venture capitalists take a full part in the market, so I hope that the Minister will give us an update on the progress of that internal review, and the main policy areas that the Government seek to address. Broadening community investment tax relief into social investment tax relief that gives incentives for direct investment into social enterprises and their intermediaries could be transformational, and relatively inexpensive.

The report—“The Shadow State”— highlights a number of key policy areas, such as child care, prison, welfare to work, and adult social care, which need to be addressed. The report is constructive and proposes solutions. I hope the Minister will take the time to read the report, and I am happy to give him a copy if he has not already read it.

As we embark on a change in how we deliver our public services, it is vital that we do so in the right way so that the public feel engaged in the process and we deliver services not only with the best outcomes, but in the right manner. Confidence in our public services is important because, without confidence, there is a danger that people will not access the services they need, leading to more expensive interventions down the line. Communities need to feel a strong relationship with the provision of those services, and that is why social enterprises, charities and small businesses are often better placed to deliver them.

The Government have rightly identified a problem in our banking sector about institutions that are too big to fail, yet there is a danger that by relying on a small clique of large multinational organisations to deliver our public services, we end up creating the same problem in public service delivery. The way to combat that is through changing the contract process so that we make contracts more winnable for smaller organisations, helping to build supply chains that are resilient and have a plethora of providers. That will not only reduce costs in the long term through proper competition on costs, but will spur forward innovation and enable greater personalisation and localisation of services.

The White Paper, “Open Public Services”, was a step in the right direction, building on a set of principles that have wide-ranging consensus. All parties went into the election promising to open the door for delivery of our public services, particularly to social enterprises, mutuals and charities. We must now all work together to ensure that implementation matches the rhetoric.

“The Shadow State” report has been useful in helping to refocus minds in this debate, and we must consider the issues now, while we are in the process of reform. We have a fantastic opportunity to change our public services for the better, to realise a future in which people feel ownership of the services they are using, and to spur innovation and creativity. The Government have rightly seen the need to reform public services, despite a period of considerable economic difficulty, but we now need to deliver on the principles that we have outlined.

[Jonathan Lord (Woking) (Con)]

I congratulate my hon. Friend on an excellent speech, and on his leadership in this matter. This debate contrasts enormously with another on the same subject in which at least two Opposition Members were decrying any involvement of private companies in the public sector. My Surrey community health care contract has gone to Virgin Care, and even within the first six months of operation, using much the same staff, but lifting the bar and using new working methods, the average waiting time for referral for a first appointment has gone down from 31 days to 19 days, and the waiting time to see a community nurse has gone down from seven days to two days. Customer satisfaction has risen from 71% to 82%. Is that not the sort of improvement that, if it were across the whole public sector, would do enormous good for all our residents?

[Chris White]

My hon. Friend makes a good point, and we should applaud such improvements. The same team is delivering the same products and achieving very different results. We should be able to see that across the sector.

To conclude, I hope that the Government will engage with all sides and work with our civil society organisations to help deliver our public services. We have a window of opportunity; let us use it.

16:49

[The Economic Secretary to the Treasury (Sajid Javid)]

I am grateful for the opportunity to speak under your chairmanship, Mr Chope.

The outsourcing of public services is an area in which my hon. Friend the Member for Warwick and Leamington (Chris White) has a great deal of experience; he feels strongly indeed. I commend him for the successful private Member’s Bill that he pushed through Parliament with support across the Benches and congratulate him on securing today’s debate. I agree with a number of points that he has made this afternoon, and I hope that he will, in turn, agree with some of the sentiments that I will express.

My hon. Friend referred rightly to the biggest issue facing the country: the size of the public sector deficit. There are a number of ways in which we need to go about fixing that problem. One of the most important is that when we spend public money—the taxes of hard-working people—we receive the best possible value in return. The outsourcing of public services, whether to small and medium-sized enterprises, social enterprises or larger organisations, is an excellent way to achieve that. I want to lay out the broad principles behind the Government’s approach and then talk about some of the specific reforms. I also want to talk about some of the measures that we have taken specifically to help SMEs and social enterprises.

The Government are committed to improving the quality of public services and delivering them more efficiently. Last July, as my hon. Friend rightly said— I am glad that he welcomed this—we published the “Open Public Services” White Paper, which set out five key principles: choice, decentralisation, fairness, accountability and diversity. If we are going to be successful in achieving those principles, transparency, which my hon. Friend also mentioned, is key. He talked about it, rightly, at length. Transparency is important to achieving all those principles.

Key elements of our approach include increasing the amount of services that we commission out, taking advantage of efficiencies and real-world benefits that the voluntary and private sectors can deliver and ensuring a diverse provision of services to drive quality through competition. We are also making greater use of payment by results, which is good for Government, because the financial risk is taken by the investor, not the taxpayer. It is also good for the voluntary sector, as it opens up many more opportunities for social enterprises and charities to deliver public services. I am sure that our thinking is very much in the same sentiment as that of my hon. Friend.

Let me turn to some of the key reforms. I know that it is easy for a Minister to stand on this spot and talk about theories and ideologies, so let me be a bit more specific and give some examples of concrete action that the Government have been taking. An example is the Work programme. The Government have taken tens of thousands of people off benefits and helped them into jobs. Figures released last month show that at least 56% of the scheme’s earliest participants have come off benefits, with 19% spending at least six consecutive months off them.

Another example is social impact bonds. My hon. Friend mentioned the importance of access to finance, particularly for SMEs, if they are to win contracts. Social impact bonds are a valuable new way to involve the voluntary, community and social enterprise sector in Government contracts based on payment by results. Already, almost 10 SIBs have been issued throughout the country, tackling reoffending, youth unemployment, homelessness and family breakdown.

We also have a big new opportunity for payment by results in probation, where we are testing a range of models with the private, public and voluntary sectors. As the Prime Minister said just a couple of months ago:

“With payment by results, your money goes into what works: prisoners going straight, crime coming down, our country getting safer.”

He has indicated that he wants to see payment by results spread right across the rehabilitation system by the end of 2015.

[Richard Fuller]

Regarding payment by results, I urge the Minister to be cautious about the difference between the desire to achieve improved performance based on payment by results in the short term and the provision of competitive tendering for Government contracts in the long term. One of the issues with privatisation is that it was a good way to make a substantial amount of money in the short term, but there have been competitive results in the long term. I think that part of today’s debate is about ensuring that the Government have the right balance between large corporations that can deliver in the short term and providing more availability for small and medium-sized enterprises to provide that competitive tendering in the long term.

[Sajid Javid]

My hon. Friend makes an excellent point about the tensions that sometimes exist between short-term goals and long-term goals, and he has used the excellent example of previous privatisation programmes. The Government will indeed take that into account.

With regard to prison procurement, we currently have five new contracts in train, bringing the total number of contracted-out prisons to 14. Let me move on to another example. In health care, we have seen an increased volume of treatments being delivered via independent providers. We heard an excellent example from my hon. Friend the Member for Woking (Jonathan Lord), who referred to Virgin Care in his own constituency. In 2010-11, 17% of hip replacements were delivered by independent providers—a rise from 0% in 2003-04. By outsourcing the services that I have highlighted, we are not only driving up the quality of services available and saving the public’s money, but increasing the public’s choice about the services that they receive.

My hon. Friend the Member for Warwick and Leamington spoke eloquently about the importance of social value in procurement. He is passionate about improving access to contracts for SMEs and social enterprises. I hope that he is pleased that the Government share that passion. In fact, every Department in Whitehall has a nominated SME Minister who is responsible for delivering an SME procurement action plan for that Minister’s Department. In the case of my Department, that Minister is me, so he will know who to harass if he believes that the Treasury is not making suitable progress in this area.

Thanks to the provision that I have described, more than 2,000 of the 5,700 contracts awarded through the Government’s contracts finder website have been allocated to SMEs, and we are taking steps to give SMEs greater opportunities to bid for contracts. The Government’s procurement pipelines give forward visibility of future potential public sector procurement opportunities, providing greater confidence for industry to invest. The Cabinet Office is tracking a pipeline of about 100 developing and established projects, worth £84 billion in total.

I thank my hon. Friend the Member for Warwick and Leamington not only for allowing us the opportunity to discuss this issue today, but for his tireless work in this area during the past two and a half years. “Procurement” and “outsourcing” are rather dry words that can, if we are perfectly honest, force more than the odd eye to glaze over. I am sure that my hon. Friend would agree, though, that discussions about procurement and outsourcing are crucial to ensuring that public money is spent wisely. I thank all hon. Members for their contributions today and I thank you, Mr Chope, for your chairmanship.

Question put and agreed to.

16:58

Sitting adjourned.