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Esther McVey (in the Chair)
Before I call the hon. Member for Ashfield (Lee Anderson) to open the debate, I wish to make a short statement about the sub judice resolution. I am sure Members will have relevant constituency cases that they want to raise during today’s debate, but under the terms of the House’s sub judice resolution, Members should not refer to any cases where there are ongoing legal proceedings. They should also exercise caution if raising matters that are not the subject of active legal proceedings but where discussions could prejudice ongoing police or other law enforcement investigations.
Lee Anderson (Ashfield) (Reform)
I beg to move,
That this House has considered the matter of knife crime.
As always, it is a pleasure to serve under your chairship, Ms McVey. We know that knife crime is not a random event—it does not happen by accident. It is a consequence of decisions made by individuals who choose to carry knives and then to use them to brutally murder people. And what do we do? We light a candle. We hold a memorial service. We say things like, “This should never happen again,” and then we go on to blame lack of investment, lack of youth services and lack of youth clubs. But I am not buying that at all. While we are sat here in the Palace of Westminster, the families of the deceased must live a life of pain, and the families of the attackers have to live a life of shame.
Let us look at the facts. We know that knife crime in England and Wales has been rising for a long time. In 2014, there were just over 27,000 recorded offences involving knives or a sharp instrument. In the space of five years, that number doubled to over 52,000. Last year, there were more than 50,000 such offences—an increase of 4.4% from the previous year. Some 41% of all homicides in 2022-23 involved a knife or a similar weapon. I could go on and on. These numbers point to hundreds of lives being lost to extreme, senseless violence. Each murder leaves behind a grieving family, friends and community.
Since saying I was going to have this debate, I have been contacted by families who tell me they face unimaginable pain and loss. At the same time, they feel like they have not received justice for their loved ones. That should fill us all in this place with a sense of shame. We cannot blame this on a lack of investment, lack of youth clubs or lack of youth facilities. Most of the blame, I believe, lies in this room and with every single politician in this Palace, past and present. We are legislators—we can change this.
Neil Coyle (Bermondsey and Old Southwark) (Lab)
I congratulate the hon. Member on securing the debate. Having had to work with the families of victims of knife crime, I know that this is a hugely important and very sensitive issue. Given the picture he is portraying, does he welcome the fact that the violence reduction unit and other efforts in London, including a public health approach, have seen a reduction in this problem in the capital city, led by our Mayor but also by individual councils investing to support families and individuals to stay out of crime?
Lee Anderson
Of course, we welcome any sort of policy in the capital city and Ashfield that reduces knife crime, so I thank the hon. Member for his intervention.
We are all legislators, and if we cannot reduce knife crime and save lives, there is not much point in us being in this place. Some will say that we are doing enough.
Liz Saville Roberts (Dwyfor Meirionnydd) (PC)
I congratulate the hon. Member on securing the debate, because it is immensely important. Of course, we sympathise with the families who have had these awful experiences. As he rightly says, we have to look at what we, as legislators, can do to make a difference. I point to two instances in Wales, the Dyfed-Powys and the North Wales police, where the rates are so much lower: 30 per 100,000 of population in Dyfed and Powys, where the police and crime commissioner is Plaid Cymru’s Dafydd Llywelyn; and 49 per 100,000 in north Wales. Both forces have maintained school officers who talk face to face with children and young people about the reality of crime, such as knife crime, and violence. It is to be hoped that that makes something of a real difference.
Lee Anderson
Education can play an important part in the reduction of knife crime, and deterrence should too. Some will say that we do enough and that action is being taken, such as the use of metal detectors or knife arches, which are being installed in schools and colleges, but how did we get to the point where knife arches are being installed in the buildings where we send our children to learn how to read and write?
Manuela Perteghella (Stratford-on-Avon) (LD)
I thank the hon. Gentleman for securing this important debate. My constituent, Cody Fisher, a young footballer, was brutally stabbed to death at the Crane nightclub in Birmingham nearly three years ago. Since that horrific night, his family and especially his mother have been campaigning tirelessly with two Governments to get bleed control kits and the use of metal detectors in late-night venues. Will the hon. Gentleman join me in urging the Government to support Cody’s family’s campaign to ensure that no more families have to endure the heartbreak that they have endured?
Lee Anderson
I am happy to support the hon. Lady on Cody’s family’s campaign.
Politicians highlight the bans on certain knives, such as zombie knives, and in all honesty, those bans are not a bad thing, as we need fewer weapons on our streets, but the most common weapon used in knife crime is a simple kitchen knife, which is used in more than half of all stabbings. If someone wants to cause someone harm or to intimidate, they do not need a zombie knife, a machete or a sword; they can just get a kitchen knife.
Members will have heard about surrender bins or knife amnesties. This time last year, during the unrest, one knife bin was located outside a mosque in Small Heath in Birmingham. It was found to contain dozens of machetes, an axe, large knives and even an adapted knuckleduster knife, but how did we get to the point where we politely ask people to hand in their weapons at a local mosque? That is not policing or law enforcement; at best, it is wishful thinking or, at worst, it is total surrender to the problem.
That brings me to stop and search. In the year ending March 2024, police officers in England and Wales conducted more than half a million searches. More than 70,000 people were arrested and 16,000 weapons seized. That is thousands of potential crimes prevented, including murders, assaults, robberies and serious sexual offences. That is impressive, and we should commend our brave police officers for acting in the line of duty. A lot of people might say that stop and search does not have an impact on overall crime rates and that it does not put people off carrying knives, but that is to miss the point. Stop and search is about not only deterrence, but detection. It gives police officers the power to remove dangerous weapons before they are used, and it takes dangerous people off our streets.
In fact, in response to the intervention by the hon. Member for Bermondsey and Old Southwark (Neil Coyle), in London under Sadiq Khan’s leadership, there has been a reduction in stop and search of more than 23% in just one year, between 2023 and 2024. Meanwhile, knife crime in London has increased by nearly 60% in just over three years—
Lee Anderson
I want to make some progress. That figure is from a Policy Exchange report. [Interruption.] I am going to make some progress, because a lot of people want to speak in this important debate. I have already taken three interventions.
That is not a coincidence. It is a classic case of a Mayor who could not care less. He would sooner spend his time calling everyone who disagrees with him—
Lee Anderson
I have just said that I am not going to give way. Sadiq Khan would sooner spend his time calling everyone who disagrees with him a racist, rather than stopping endless knife attacks on the streets of London.
Esther McVey (in the Chair)
Is it a point of order? I remind Members that it is down to the Member speaking whether to accept interventions. I will listen to the hon. Gentleman’s point of order, and we will decide whether it is one.
Neil Coyle
Thank you, Ms McVey. Members are all required to not mislead, or accidentally mislead the House, and there is an issue with some of the figures that have just been presented. Could you encourage the hon. Member to either give the dates for the figures he was using, which will show that they are out of date, or use the correct data, which show that knife crime has fallen in the capital, which is something we should welcome together?
Esther McVey (in the Chair)
It was a point of debate. There are at least 10 people who would like to speak today. You had your chance to speak, but I am afraid your temper and your attitude do not belong in Westminster Hall. I call Lee Anderson.
Lee Anderson
Thank you, Ms McVey. It is not the first time that the hon. Member has been thrown out of a room on this estate.
We must use powers lawfully, and our police cannot be hindered. We cannot allow a fear of red tape, or baseless accusations of institutional racism or unconscious bias to stop police officers doing their job. Serving police officers and former police officers reached out to me ahead of this debate, and they all said the same thing: we need to reform policing priorities from top to bottom, we must protect police officers and increase stop and search, without apology and without hesitation. In the same way, the message coming from our courts must be clear: if you are caught with a knife, you go to jail.
When someone puts a knife in their pocket and walks out of their front door, they have made a choice and there must be consequences to it. Today the maximum sentence for possession of a knife is four years. For second knife offences, adults are supposed to face a mandatory six months’ jail sentence, but that in reality looks completely different. In 2023, only 28% of people caught with a knife went to prison, down from 33% in 2018. Dangerous men are walking away with little more than a slap on their wrist or a community sentence. The rate of offenders who receive just a caution has dropped a lot over the past 30 years, and we know that the average custodial sentence has crept up to just over seven months for possession of a knife, and almost 15 months for threatening offences. That might sound like progress, but those sentences are far too short. Community sentences are still being handed out to most youth offenders, and it is no wonder that young lads are becoming more brazen, carrying knives in broad daylight, and making TikTok videos with their machetes. They do that because they know that our justice system is a soft touch.
There are lots of reasons why a boy might decide to pick up a knife. Some believe it is for protection, but we should never have got to a point in our society where someone feels the need to carry a knife to be protected. That said, I must highlight that adult men are the primary offenders, and they are responsible for over 80% of all knife crime offences. These are not just isolated incidents among youngsters, and that is no wonder when grown men are getting off too. Just a couple of weeks ago we all saw a man avoid prison despite attacking someone with a knife. The person was burning a Quran, and in this instance the court basically said, “It’s okay to take justice into your own hands. If you attack and threaten someone with a knife for causing you offence, he will be the one who is convicted, and you won’t have to go to prison.” At the same time, people are getting locked up for Facebook posts or offensive tweets. It is madness. Communities across the country are fed up with our weak and flimsy justice system. They have had enough; they want action, not words.
Over the summer I submitted several written questions to the Home Office about illegal migrants crossing the English channel in small boats, and I asked how many of them have been found carrying drugs and weapons on their arrival in the UK. I got a response from the then Minister, the hon. Member for Wallasey (Dame Angela Eagle). She told me that the migrants were searched upon arrival and that:
“Some small weapons—for example, knives—have occasionally been seized as a result of those searches over the past seven years,”.
“Some small weapons”—what kind of pathetic, weak answer is that? People in this country want to know how many people, and how many knives have been found. How many of those men are still here, and how many are still being put up in taxpayer-funded hotels? The Minister owes it to our concerned constituents to tell us what is happening to men who arrive on our shores carrying knives.
We have enough of a home-grown knife problem already; we do not want to import more. While I am on this point, I want the Minister to tell us how many illegal immigrants have committed knife offences in our country over the past few years. Individuals might have had a knife taken off them when they got to this country, but it is not that difficult to get another knife. That information should be made publicly available.
I know I speak for a lot of people when I say that I am sick of politicians speaking at vigils, lighting candles and sharing their sympathies with the families and loved ones of another person murdered on our streets, only to come back to this place and avoid taking decisive action. We need police officers who take violent criminals off our streets, courts that administer real justice for victims and a Government not afraid to adopt a zero-tolerance approach to knife crime. How else are our constituents going to feel safe?
Our message needs to be plain and simple: “If you pick up a knife, you will feel the full force of the law and go to prison.” I have one ask on behalf of the law-abiding British public: anyone caught carrying a dangerous weapon should receive an automatic custodial sentence. I am not talking about Swiss army knives, penknives, small knives or tools used for fishing or arts and crafts, nor about men coming back from a shift at the local factory, plumbers, electricians or carpenters. I am talking about the type of knife carried by people who have no reason to carry such weapons in a public place.
Several hon. Members rose—
Esther McVey (in the Chair)
Order. I remind Members that they need to be here for the start of the debate and to bob if they wish to be called to speak. A lot of Members wish to speak. If everyone keeps to a maximum of five minutes, we should get everybody in.
Will Stone (Swindon North) (Lab)
It is an honour to serve under your chairship, Ms McVey. I thank the hon. Member for Ashfield (Lee Anderson) for securing the debate. Although we may not agree on how to fix knife crime, I believe everybody here cares and wants to sort out the issue.
Knife crime is huge and devastating, with a massive impact—not just on friends and families, but on communities. When we talk about this subject it is important to remember that these are not just statistics, numbers on a piece of paper, but people who have lost their lives. This is a little personal for me because I witnessed a slashing. When I left the Army, I took a job as a bouncer and there was an incident between two gangs outside the club after closing hours. I will never forget seeing a human flashing a blade at another human. Bear in mind that I was in the Army and have seen a few things, but that was a crazy situation that will always stick with me. As the hon. Member for Ashfield said, we have a duty as legislators to get a grip of the situation.
I am going to talk about two stabbings that happened in Swindon. Owen Dunn was murdered on 4 December 2022. He was only 18 years old, basically a child, and was stabbed in his armpit with a machete. He had his whole life ahead of him; that was completely unacceptable and tragic. Through their grief, his family have set up a charity, Owen’s World. They have honoured his death by going into schools, educating students about knife crime and raising funding for bleed kits. I do not believe we should have to have such kits but, when there is an incident, they are needed.
The second person I want to talk about is Lee Turner. I knew Lee because we grew up in the same area. The place where he was stabbed, the Venney, is around the corner from my house. His was another life taken too soon. Lee might not have been a model citizen, as even his sister would admit, but he did not deserve to die. His sister has done a fantastic job, putting her energy into setting up Change Lives No to Knives, which focuses on education and amnesty bins. The hon. Member for Ashfield might not agree that we need amnesty bins but there are people in our community who do not feel comfortable going to the police. We need to rebuild that relationship with community policing. Amnesty bins serve a purpose by offering the opportunity to hand blades in without fear of repercussion.
I am so proud and grateful to both those charities and all the charities across this country. Their focus on education and prevention will play a massive part in addressing knife crime.
Mr Bayo Alaba (Southend East and Rochford) (Lab)
I can say that my own life has been changed through knife crime, having been attacked on some occasions in my youth. I have lost some friends to knife crime and over the last 25 years, when I have been mentoring people, I have supported families who have lost loved ones.
The pain that we see in those families is something that I find difficult to explain or describe. Southend East and Rochford, the community that I represent, is vibrant and bustling, but young people in that community suffer knife crime, too. Does my hon. Friend agree that the measures in the Government’s Crime and Policing Bill, alongside initiatives such as Young Futures hubs, will strengthen prevention and early intervention?
Will Stone
I thank my hon. Friend for sharing a personal part of his life. I absolutely agree that that measure will help. It is the first step, but we need to go further. As I have said, knife crime is devastating. Although I agree that the Government can always do more, I will praise their Crime and Policing Bill for providing new powers to seize and destroy weapons; introducing tougher sentences for online sales; getting zombie knives off our streets; and introducing new offences of possessing weapons with intent to use. Once again, I thank the hon. Member for Ashfield for bringing forward this debate.
Dawn Butler (Brent East) (Lab)
We all have stories. In my constituency, we used to have quite a number of knife crimes, but the early intervention and violent crime reduction unit that the Mayor has put in place has helped to reduce that and young people in pupil referral units are also mentored and looked after. Does my hon. Friend agree that we cannot just look at the end stage? As people did in Scotland, we have to look at a public health approach to how we combat knife crime in our country.
Will Stone
I absolutely agree. I know that my hon. Friend is an active supporter of trying to reduce knife crime and has done fantastic work in her constituency.
I am incredibly proud of what the Government are doing, but we need to do more. I want to give one more shout-out to Owen’s World for the fantastic work that it does and to Change Lives No to Knives. I look forward to hearing the Minister’s response and hearing from everyone else in the Chamber.
Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)
It is a real pleasure to serve under your chairship, Ms McVey, and to give you the respect that you deserve for the position that you hold. May I say a big thank you to the hon. Member for Ashfield (Lee Anderson) for leading today’s debate on this very important issue? Knife crime is such a prevalent issue across the UK, mainly here on the mainland, of course, where the figures are higher, although unfortunately we are also seeing an increasing number of incidents with knives back home in Northern Ireland, so I am very pleased to be here to try to raise awareness of that. As previously stated, the prevalence of knife crime is not and historically has not been the same in Northern Ireland as it has been in England and under other devolved institutions—
Adam Dance
Does the hon. Member for Strangford (Jim Shannon) agree that knife crime is not increasing just in towns and cities and that we desperately need more funding for community policing in rural areas, such as the Yeovil constituency?
Jim Shannon
I certainly do and I commend the hon. Gentleman for that intervention. I know that he has done lots of work with youth groups in his constituency. Sometimes we need to be at that level to try to change the mindset. All Members are probably focused on that as well.
In Northern Ireland, we are seeing a substantial number of violent and sexual offences that involve sharp instruments. For example, in the 12 months to September 2024 in Northern Ireland, there were 846 violent crimes involving a knife or blade. Those include rape, assault, attempted murder and robbery. I well recall the occasion when my son was a manager of a shop in Newtownards and someone came in high on drugs and probably drink as well and told him to empty the till. This is a question we all ask: when we are younger, we perhaps do not see things the same way and perhaps we are more brave and courageous; for just that second we say to ourselves, “Do I hand it over, or do I grapple with him?” Grappling with someone high on drugs or whatever would not be a wise thing to do, so my son stood back on the other side of the till. The person did not get the money, but the best thing to do was not to grapple and not get stabbed as a result of money in a till. That is one of the things that happened in Northern Ireland.
Some 31% of homicides over recent years have involved a knife and 25% of robberies have involved a sharp instrument. I am sure I do not need to mention the matter of violence against women in Northern Ireland. Since April 2019, there have been some 34 deaths in Northern Ireland from killings involving knives. Those are worrying, tragic, disturbing figures. I have on numerous occasions spoken about this and how horrendous the statistics are. Those victims are more than numbers and we must do more to put our words into action.
Mr Gregory Campbell (East Londonderry) (DUP)
My hon. Friend talks about putting words into action. Does he agree with me—this has been expressed in the debate—that it is good, proper and appropriate that we have a debate like this on the increasing prevalence of knife crime? It would be better to see the result of this debate in Government action across the United Kingdom, particularly in towns and larger conurbations where knife crime is on the increase.
Jim Shannon
I thank my hon. Friend the Member for East Londonderry for his intervention. As always, he brings pertinent words of wisdom to the debate and I thank him for that.
There is a worrying trend as well. I read an article about children—my goodness, it is hard to take this in—as young as four years old taking knives or sharp objects into school. It is so bad that parents are calling for metal detectors or arches to be installed in schools. The hon. Member for Ashfield referred to that in his contribution. A freedom of information request highlighted that there were some 1,304 offences involving knives in 2024 at schools and sixth form colleges. Long ago are the days when our children were dropped at school to learn and integrate with their friends. Now some parents are terrified that their son or daughter may fall victim to a knife attack.
Concerns were also raised through the Netflix show “Adolescence”, which brought to light the dangers of social media in regard to knife crime among children. The key word here is “children”. These are not 16, 17 or 18-year-olds who have some capability to make the correct decision; they are young, impressionable people using knives to seriously hurt people or who feel that they have to protect themselves. We are worried about that scenario, so what do we do? I am not saying it is right, by the way. I am just saying that sometimes the reaction is, “I had better carry a knife.”
Tom Hayes (Bournemouth East) (Lab)
In Dorset, where I represent Bournemouth East, figures show 39 knife-related incidents per 100,000 people. That is more than half below the national average, but behind every statistic there is a story. I am thinking particularly of 18-year-old Cameron Hamilton, who was tragically killed. His grandmother Tracy, who I had the honour to meet, has set up an organisation called Changes Are Made. Does the hon. Member agree with the mission of that organisation—that we must put lives before knives? Would he also agree that no one should carry a knife, because the quickest way to destroy a life is to carry a knife?
Jim Shannon
The hon. Member, who is a very assiduous MP, puts forward a viewpoint from his own constituency, which we all endorse, and I thank him for all that he does in his constituency to try to stop people carrying knives.
If we look further across the globe, we hear of knife incidents most days in newspapers or news headlines. The one that probably shocked us all was the case of Iryna Zarutska, who was stabbed three times from behind on a train in North Carolina. She was an innocent lady sitting on her own murdered by a disturbed person. And recently someone was stabbed at a Manchester synagogue—we had a statement yesterday in the Chamber about that. These instances are endless and the stats show the situation is not getting any better.
I hope there is more we can do—I think there is. There are ways to educate young people on the dangers of carrying knives, which is what the hon. Member for Bournemouth East referred to. We need to educate the children at a very early age that it is not wise to carry a knife. We need to take the angst away from the parents who have concerns as well and learn about the reasons why young people feel the need to carry a knife.
I am always very pleased to see the Minister in her place. Her ministership has changed, and I wish her well in her new role; I know that she will try to take forward the same excellence in her new role that she showed in the last one. I also look forward to the contribution of the shadow Minister, the hon. Member for Stockton West (Matt Vickers). The Minister’s job is to ensure that we do more to protect people and give the harshest sentences to those convicted of knife crime.
Adam Dance
On a point of order, Ms McVey. May I just correct the record? I think you may have called me by the wrong name when I intervened.
Jim McMahon (Oldham West, Chadderton and Royton) (Lab/Co-op)
It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Ms McVey. I congratulate the hon. Member for Ashfield (Lee Anderson) on securing the debate.
Knife crime and the gang activity that comes with it ruin lives and leave whole communities living in fear. This debate has been wide-ranging, but for Greater Manchester, and Oldham in particular, there is an urgency to tackling youth knife crime, gang activity and the real threat of child criminal exploitation in our communities—a threat that continues to hit working-class communities the hardest. I place on record my thanks to Greater Manchester police and their partners in the violence reduction unit—chaired by Kate Green, the deputy mayor for policing—for recognising and acting on the issue, and for meeting me to discuss the issue further.
Since 2020, Greater Manchester police have run the forever amnesty, which has taken thousands of weapons off our streets. However, the police themselves would say that knives remain easily available in households and in everyday lawful life, so unless the culture and environment change, we will not break the cycle of offending and the harm that goes alongside it.
Warinder Juss (Wolverhampton West) (Lab)
Does my hon. Friend agree that, whether we like it or not, social isolation and a lack of opportunities are possible causes of knife crime? I am an OnSide youth zone champion, and my constituency has The Way youth zone. It is launching a comprehensive knife crime prevention initiative to tackle such issues. Does my hon. Friend agree that we need well-funded youth services that prioritise early intervention, empower our youth, foster community safety, and thereby help to achieve safer streets and stronger youth?
Jim McMahon
That is very important, and it has to go alongside other interventions. Like my hon. Friend’s constituency, Oldham has an OnSide youth centre, called Mahdlo, which provides significant intervention and support for young people. It is fair to say that the world has changed since I was a child at school. The online world means that it is difficult for young people to escape threats of violence and intimidation, and their glorification on online platforms, which allow videos showing young people threatening young people to be uploaded, seemingly without any challenge whatever. The culture and environment are important.
In Greater Manchester, Operation Venture, which was launched in 2022, has led to hundreds of arrests, improved intelligence and a clearer understanding of where and how weapons are used. However, I want to focus on the young people most at risk, both as offenders and as victims, and to call for stronger safeguarding and prevention response. Gangs have always existed in some areas—lines between estates and postcodes are not new—but what has changed is the speed with which petty disputes can escalate, and the online meeting the on-street, with little escape for those who are at risk. A perceived lack of respect can turn into revenge, and verbal exchanges can quickly become fatal violence involving knives. Many young people live in fear—afraid simply to walk home from school, making them a target.
The same culture that drives that fear also traps young people within it. Simply telling young people to stay away from trouble is not realistic when violence and intimidation follow them home through their phones, consoles and social media—24 hours a day, seven days a week. In that environment, some young children start carrying knives themselves, for what they believe is self-defence—an avoidable and dangerous response to fear.
More sinister still is the impact of child criminal exploitation, or county lines, as it is sometimes called: the systematic grooming of mainly, though not exclusively, working-class boys—girls can be impacted too—by older men and their peers into organised crime such as robbery, drug dealing and violence. In some cases, there is a proven link to sexual exploitation alongside it. In the House, we recognise the patterns of child sexual exploitation and abuse and the characteristics of victims and offenders, as we now know them to be. We also know when we see clear and present safeguarding failures. We must apply the same urgency to understanding and acting on child criminal exploitation.
None of that takes away the importance of individual responsibility or the role of parents, but too often the system looks at these working-class young people and writes them off. It sees them as bad kids or lost causes, instead of as vulnerable children being exploited and abused. That attitude reflects a class bias that is still far too common—the idea that some estates or even some families are just rough and that being drawn into crime is inevitable. Too often, that allows neglect to go unchallenged. If that mindset persists, we will continue to fail young people, and entire communities will remain trapped in fear.
For too many families in Greater Manchester, that fear has become a reality. We have seen repeated knife attacks, many involving children. In New Moston, just streets away from my constituency, a 15-year-old boy was chased down the street and stabbed to death. I cannot say any more, as the Chair reminded us at the start of the debate, because it is an ongoing case, but what is beyond doubt is that another family have lost their son.
In Limeside, in Oldham West, the community has spirit and solidarity, but its foundations have been weakened. The local police post, the GP surgery, the housing office and other public services have been eroded in the last decade and a half. Those who remain, such as the Avro football club and Anthony Crolla’s gym, are doing heroic work to give young people purpose and safety, but they are fighting to survive every single day when the community needs them more than ever. These same areas experience some of the highest numbers of section 60 stop and searches in Greater Manchester. The Limeside estate alone has had seven stop and search orders in the last two years.
There has been some progress. To June 2025, the homicide rate in Greater Manchester was 8.8 per million people, a decrease of 21% compared with the previous year and down 45% on the last three years. While youth violence overall is decreasing, more must be done to prevent children from being exposed to violent crime at such a young age. The police identify that most young people supported by the violence reduction unit are aged between 13 and 15—these are children. Reported knife and offensive weapon offences have risen from 220 in 2014 to 413 10 years later—a significant increase. Some of that reflects increased police activity, including stop and search, which should be welcomed, but let’s not kid ourselves: every one of those cases represents a real threat.
Knife crime is not inevitable. My call today is for a step change in how we safeguard young people from criminal exploitation. That means recognising vulnerability, not just criminality. It means restoring trust in communities where fear has replaced hope. It means tougher action to hold social media giants and messaging platforms to account. It means rebuilding the foundations of our youth services, safe spaces and neighbourhood networks to give young people a sense of belonging and a reason to believe in a better future, to finally break the cycle.
Danny Kruger (East Wiltshire) (Reform)
We had a little dispute earlier about the statistics on knife crime. The fact is that we clearly do see from the evidence that knife crime is a serious problem, and it is rising in pockets. We have a clear problem in London. The stats are disputed, but the fact is that any knife crime is unacceptable, and the crimes that lead to death are utter tragedies.
Dawn Butler
The Metropolitan police briefing for October 2025 said there were 1,154 fewer knife crime offences in the 12 months to August 2025—a 7% drop. Is the hon. Member disputing the Met police stats?
Danny Kruger
I am sorry, but I do not think we should spend the whole time disputing the statistics. I can cite statistics suggesting there has been a 60% increase in knife crime in the last year. Let us not trade stats, but by all means let us take this offline, if the hon. Lady would like to trade citations. The fact is that significant studies demonstrate there is a real problem—an increasing problem—with knife crime in some areas. As I said, any knife crime is unacceptable, and the tragedies that lead to death are to be enormously regretted.
For the last 20 years, I have run a charity working with people in prisons and with ex-offenders—many of them involved in knife crime and violence—to try to reduce reoffending in London. I know from first-hand experience, and indeed from encounters I have had this week, how much our justice system is disrespected in our communities. So I absolutely agree with the central point made by my hon. Friend the Member for Ashfield (Lee Anderson): we need to increase the deterrent effect of the justice system, and that means having clearer and sterner punishments for the crime of carrying weapons. We need swifter justice, to ensure that the time between the committal of an offence and punishment is as short as possible. We also need—this is the work I do—to focus on rehabilitation and reducing reoffending, because the cycle of crime is the cause, the real heart, of these terrible statistics. It is not the number of first-time offenders, which is always terrible; it is the number of people who stay in a life of crime.
I pay tribute to my hon. Friend the Member for Ashfield for referencing the families of the victims. Ultimately, those are the people we should bear in mind when we consider these tragedies. But I also pay tribute to him for mentioning the families of the attackers, whose lives are also ruined when their son—it is usually the son—goes to jail for many years as a consequence of knife crime. As my hon. Friend said, they suffer shame and trauma.
I want to mention family—this is really my only real contribution to the debate—because I do not think we have heard the word “family” mentioned yet, and it is rare that we do. All my experience of working with offenders is that in almost every case—it is almost absurd how standard it is—the father is absent from the young man’s life; it is not always the case, and of course there are exceptions. I therefore pay tribute to the amazing women who try to bring these boys up in very tough circumstances and who overwhelmingly do their best to ensure that their boys stay on the straight and narrow. But in the absence of a father, how are those boys to understand what it is to be a man, to respect authority, to respect women and to collaborate constructively with their peers? Those lessons are so much harder to learn for boys growing up without a positive male role model in their lives.
I want to make a simple point in response to a remark the hon. Member for Brent East (Dawn Butler) made earlier about the public health approach to crime. I respect that concept; if we are talking about knife crime as an epidemic comparable to a contagious disease, that is a very apt analogy. I also respect the principle that we should have a whole-community approach to knife crime. My concern is that the concept of a public health approach is really code for a statutory response that says that the reason we have knife crime is that the wider community—which really means what the Government are doing—is inadequate and needs to step forward in some way. As I said, a lot of my life has been committed to the principle that community needs to step forward.
However, the role of the state is fundamentally to enforce justice; the job of the Government is to ensure that people are safe in their streets and that the law is respected. The real source of the knife crime epidemic, and the resolution to it, does not lie with the state, nor with the nebulous community; it lies with the individual themselves, who needs to grow up learning and knowing what it is to do right and wrong, and it lies with the family. If Government can do anything apart from enforce justice—which of course is their primary function —they should be instilling the principles of right and wrong in our young people through the education system. More importantly than anything else, they should be supporting stable families, because that is the context in which young boys will grow up much less likely to go off the rails.
Dawn Butler
The hon. Gentleman is making some extremely valuable points. The public health approach is not something I have invented; when there was a knife crime epidemic in Scotland and they needed a way to curb it, they adopted a public health approach—and it worked. I am talking about doing things that work. The first law of a Government is to protect all their citizens. Families also include blended families, so there are many different family structures.
There is some discrepancy in what the hon. Gentleman is saying. He has to recognise that a public health approach works; it worked in Scotland, and it is working in London—the police and the mayor say so. The hon. Gentleman mentioned male role models, and the mayor’s mentorship programme to mentor 100,000 people is helping. We have to look at this in the round if we are really going to curb knife crime.
Danny Kruger
I agree with every single word the hon. Lady said, except the implication—actually, I will just leave it in agreement.
I respect what has happened in Scotland, and I welcome the reductions they have seen there, but my concern about the public health model is that it might mean we have an excuse not to think about the essential moral challenge of individuals understanding the difference between right and wrong, and the role of stable families in preventing crime. We would then have abused the valuable concept of a public health model.
Will Stone
I want to point out one thing. I agree that stable families are incredibly important. I am from a single-parent family: my mum died when I was young and my dad worked. Youth clubs established by the then Labour council kept me on the right track and stopped me going into certain circles. One of my friends stabbed someone in the behind with a screwdriver and went to jail. Those youth clubs were essential for me to find leadership through sport, so I think there is a role for the state to play. Does the hon. Gentleman agree?
Danny Kruger
I agree, although most youth clubs are not statutory institutions—they might be publicly funded but they belong to civil society, and I honour and welcome them. I pay tribute to the youth club that supported the hon. Gentleman, and indeed the armed forces, which I suspect he would also say played an important role in his being the fine, upstanding citizen that he is today.
Nevertheless, we will never compensate for the epidemic of family breakdown in this country with youth clubs. Youth clubs are vital, the armed forces are vital and all the other institutions of society that come around individuals play an essential role, but if the family is broken in our communities, we will continue to have the tragedies that we have been discussing today.
Sarah Pochin (Runcorn and Helsby) (Reform)
It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Ms McVey. I thank my hon. Friend the Member for Ashfield (Lee Anderson) for securing this important debate.
I will speak about some of my experiences as a magistrate for 20 years in Cheshire. I am sure many think of Cheshire as a sleepy county, but statistics show that knife crime increased there by 7% year on year from March 2024 to March 2025, which may surprise some. I will take time to look into that with my chief constable.
Over my 20 years in court, I heard so many reasons—in fact, excuses—for why defendants might have been carrying knives at the time of the incident or when the police caught up with them. Those ranged from “I forgot it was in my pocket” to “I needed it for work”—that was always a standard one, no matter what they actually did for work. Today, there is a mandatory six-month custodial sentence for anyone caught carrying a knife in the community, but the fact is that magistrates often do not enforce it after listening to and accepting the mitigating factors put forward by the solicitor on behalf of the defendant. Sometimes, a suspended sentence might be given, but the point is that this is soft justice, and I have seen it time and again.
The courts must get tougher on doing what they say they will do—doing what we ask them to do—and enforce that custodial sentence, because only by enforcing the custodial sentence will the message start to get through. I would say that the mandatory six-month sentence is not currently a deterrent, because people are not afraid of going to court. That is an issue for people like us who set policy.
Sarah Pochin
I will make a little progress, if that is all right.
My only observation about stop and search is that it has an effect, and I believe very strongly that stop and search needs to be brought back with absolutely zero tolerance. We need to support the police in putting aside any worry about being accused of being racist or of targeting particular groups in particular communities, because these policies work in taking knives off the street.
Sarah Pochin
Let me make a little progress, sorry.
The other point about stop and search is that the police, and indeed politicians, should not congratulate themselves on how many knives are found through stop and search; we and the police should congratulate ourselves on how many knives are not found when stop and search is used to its maximum power, because that is the measure of success.
I now come on to the point about why so many young men carry knives, and it is generally young men who carry knives. Again, over the years of my experience, I have seen the fear that young men often have—sadly, sometimes when they are going to school. People have said to me that they felt threatened at school, so they took knives into school. Of course, this also affects older men out in the community. There is a difference between these two groups, and it is a problem for magistrates. There is a difference between a young man, a youth, saying that they were frightened to go into school without a knife, and an older man going to a pub with a knife in his pocket.
This is an interesting issue for magistrates, because magistrates need to have some insight into people’s lives. We have heard talk this morning about role models and that type of thing. It is a huge problem that we never see the parents when these young men are in court.
The other thing is the problem of drug gangs and county lines, which we deal with all the time as magistrates. That culture on our streets is feeding this knife crime, and it is not just in cities any more. It is all over the counties, with young people—and they are often very young—carrying knives because they are drug runners.
Dawn Butler
I, too, was a magistrate and heard lots of cases. The hon. Member might be coming to domestic violence, as there is a lot of knife crime in the home.
However, I do not quite get the hon. Lady’s thread with regard to the police searching people and not finding knives. In August 2024, the police had a 10% success rate with stop and search. In August 2025, there was a 25% success rate. The difference was that the later stop-and-search operation was data-led and intelligence-led. Do we want to go forwards or backwards? That is the question.
Sarah Pochin
My point is that if stop and search is working, we will eventually get to a point where knives are found less often. That is the measure of success.
We as politicians need to give our courts and our police the power to have a zero-tolerance approach to stop and search. The police need to have the confidence to carry out stop and search without fear of criticism. They need to be given funding to carry out thorough intelligence work on drug gangs, and they are doing an incredible job on the county lines operations that are now overtaking our society. However, they need to be given more funding for that work. The courts also need to be given the funding and resource to enact swift justice.
Clearly, we also need education in schools and the community initiatives we have talked about. All of this is important, all of this is a package, but it starts at the top. It starts with us.
Warinder Juss
Of course, it is the job of the state system to act as a deterrent, so I understand the hon. Lady’s point.
I sit on the Justice Committee, and I have visited prisons and spoken to young people. Unfortunately, a lot of people do not think they will be sentenced to a long period in prison if they commit a crime—that is not in their minds. Does the hon. Lady agree that our focus should be on enabling the people who are likely to commit knife crimes to make the right choices in life? That is what we should focus on, rather than trying to get the message across that if they commit a crime, they will end up in jail. We need to be enabling our youth, our young people, to make the right choices in life.
Sarah Pochin
Clearly, at the moment, the threat of a custodial sentence is not the deterrent that it has to be, which is an important point. The Sentencing Bill, which will have its next stage on Tuesday, will take away the power of magistrates courts to hand down custodial sentences of less than 12 months. That is a big issue, but I will talk about it on Tuesday.
Finally, it is important for all of us, as politicians, to remember that David Amess was brutally stabbed and killed four years ago today. What we have talked about this morning does not touch on the extremists and the nutcases who are out there in society, and from whom we are all under threat. I acknowledge that today is the four-year anniversary, and I urge everyone to take the utmost care when we are out in our communities.
Several hon. Members rose—
Esther McVey (in the Chair)
I remind Members that we want to get to the Front Benchers as close as we can to 10.30 am, so be mindful of the time.
Andrew Rosindell (Romford) (Con)
It is a pleasure to serve under your chairship, Ms McVey. I thank the hon. Member for Ashfield (Lee Anderson) for securing this crucial debate. He always says it as it is and speaks common sense. He is speaking for millions of people in this country who are sick of the knife-crime epidemic that we see across our nation. This is a timely debate, following the appalling events in Manchester only a few weeks ago.
As the hon. Member for Runcorn and Helsby (Sarah Pochin) just said, the appalling murder of our friend Sir David Amess took place four years ago today. We continue to grieve for that great parliamentarian and his family. We all felt the loss when he was taken from us.
Every one of us in this place will have heard of the fear and frustration of our constituents regarding the rising tide of violence in our cities. As the Member of Parliament for Romford, an Essex town on the periphery of Greater London, I see that fear at first hand. Ordinary, law-abiding people—mothers walking their children to school, young people heading home from work, shop workers locking up at night—are frightened to walk the streets of their own city.
A fortnight ago, the police cordoned off Romford High Street due to a knife-crime-related incident. Last year, a man was stabbed and killed only metres from my constituency office. That is not how London used to be. When I was growing up, it was not like that at all. It is not, and should not be, characteristic of the world’s greatest city.
My constituents are dutiful people. They respect the police and they respect authority; they expect their Government to defend them. Many residents have sought refuge in Romford from the crime that is spiralling out of control in inner-London areas. However, we fear that Havering will one day go the same way.
It fills me with shame and anger when I hear that other nations now warn their citizens to exercise a high degree of caution when visiting our capital. Australia has raised its travel advice for the United Kingdom from level 1 to level 2. That places us in the same bracket as countries such as Albania, Senegal and Tunisia. The embassy of the United Arab Emirates has gone further still, warning of a recent increase in violence and knife crime in London.
When foreign Governments are advising caution on British streets, something has gone very wrong indeed. Yet the Mayor of London chooses to accuse others of spreading misinformation, rather than confronting the truth on knife crime, along with the rest of his totally appalling record. I agree with President Trump’s assessment that Mayor Khan is doing “a terrible job” for our capital.
According to the recent Policy Exchange report, which has already been mentioned, there are almost 17,000 knife crime offences in the capital, which is an 86% increase since 2015. London now accounts for nearly a third of all crime in England and Wales, and almost half of all knifepoint robberies. Robbery is now the largest single category of knife crime, with more than 10,000 offences in 2024, the majority involving mobile phone theft.
During Boris Johnson’s term as Mayor of London between 2011 and 2016, knife crime in London fell by almost a third. Since Sadiq Khan entered City Hall—sorry, I should say Sir Sadiq Khan—the number of offences has climbed relentlessly, but Mayor Khan takes no responsibility for the shocking situation. The reality is that Londoners have been failed by a mayor who spends most of his time virtue signalling, rather than restoring order to our capital. The result is that criminals have been emboldened, while the law-abiding majority have been abandoned. Stop and search, used properly, is working and needs to be extended, and I am glad that my party is suggesting that. I am sure that others in this House agree.
We need zero tolerance in policing the worst hotspots. That means returning to the principle of having large numbers of uniformed police officers patrolling our streets. It means tough sentences for those who carry knives and immediate prison terms for repeat offenders. The first of nine policing principles outlined by the former Prime Minister and founder of the Metropolitan police, Sir Robert Peel, is that the basic mission for which the police exist is to prevent crime and disorder. That may have worked in the 19th century; it certainly worked in the 20th century; and I am convinced that it will work in the 21st century. We must ensure, however, that the police are doing the job of policing and not acting as social workers. We want more police and fewer PC PCs—politically correct police constables.
I commend the hon. Member for Ashfield for bringing this debate before the House. I hope that the Minister is listening to everything that is being said, because the people of my constituency and throughout London are fearful that the Government and the Mayor of London are simply not doing the job that they were elected to do.
Richard Tice (Boston and Skegness) (Reform)
It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Ms McVey, as always. I congratulate my good friend, my hon. Friend the Member for Ashfield (Lee Anderson), on securing this vital debate.
Knife crime is the scourge of our society. Almost every day or every week, in the newspapers and in our constituencies, we hear horrific stories from people and we have our own experiences. Many good examples have been spoken of today, and there have been different suggestions of how to try to reduce it, whether that is through education in schools, amnesty bins, knife arches —we do not want them, but maybe they help—youth clubs and much more besides. We have to be prepared to try things to see what works, and different police forces will make different progress. Ultimately, however, there has to be a deterrent.
Earlier this year, I had a slightly strange experience while campaigning in the glorious town of Boston in Lincolnshire, in my constituency. Some of my team were driving down a neighbouring street where a gentleman was walking along carrying a machete. They took a photograph of the machete and called the police, who were fantastic and responded immediately: I was taken off the street and the police found the gentleman. They arrested him and he was charged for carrying a machete. He went to court, but he was found not guilty of carrying a knife that could be a lethal instrument.
We have to ask, where is the consistent application of sensible laws to act as a genuine deterrent? That is the point. Ultimately, with all the good measures that we hear about, which I just touched on and other Members know can work, when we educate people about the horrors of knife crime, there also has to be a sanction. There has to be a deterrent—that if someone does not listen to the wise words of mentors, fathers, teachers or youth clubs, there is a sanction.
It seems to me that the data does not lie. There are short-term variances, but the medium and long-term data is crystal clear in England and Wales: in the past 12 years or so, stop and search has halved, while knife offences have doubled. We have to have automatic detention for carrying a knife and automatic longer sentences for using a knife. A zero tolerance policy is what our constituents want.
Esther McVey (in the Chair)
We now come to the Front Benchers. I call the Lib Dem spokesperson.
Luke Taylor (Sutton and Cheam) (LD)
This is my first opportunity to serve under your chairmanship, Ms McVey. I welcome the chance to talk again about knife crime in this place and I will outline the ways in which this heinous crime is marring communities and claiming too many lives. Although I wholeheartedly disagree with the hon. Member for Ashfield (Lee Anderson) on most topics, this is an important debate. I hope for the sake of all victims that we can make constructive suggestions to improve the situation. I think we can all agree, across the political divide, that young people in every corner of the country should not be growing up in a climate of fear.
I have outlined the Liberal Democrat approach several times, because, unlike the Reform party next to me, we believe in evidence-based policymaking. The public health approach to knife crime, which has worked in Scotland and has also shown signs of success in London, holds the most promise. I reiterate that the Liberal Democrats are clear on the need for a proper joined-up approach to youth diversion, making it a statutory duty with proper funding, so that every part of the country has a pre-charge diversion scheme for young people up to the age of 25.
I am increasingly conscious that over the past year or so figures on the extreme right of British politics, seemingly with the backing of a stream of American malcontents who reach from the mad fringes to the White House, have chosen to weaponise the issue of crime in London. They paint a picture that few Londoners recognise of a city rife with violent crime on every corner. It is as though we have all descended into lawlessness, scared to walk the streets because of a mad, feverish crime wave, driven by liberal, middle-class squeamishness.
As a proud Londoner, I totally reject that nonsense. Violent crime fell in London by 6% in the year to last March. The following three months saw a 19% fall in knife crime compared with the same time last year. Knife-enabled offences have dropped in each month of 2025 from the same months in 2024; I invite the hon. Member for Ashfield to correlate that with the reductions in stop and search over the same period. I have been to Scotland Yard with colleagues and heard that the Met’s action in recent months has been modestly successful. I believe that, given the Met’s increasingly limited resources, it is affording the issue the priority level it deserves.
To avoid the risk of being misrepresented, I will be clear that I do not wish to minimise the issue, for two reasons. First, looking further back in time, knife crime has gone up dramatically since 2016 under the Labour Mayor’s watch, as Conservative Government cuts to local government and the police obliterated the community support networks that the public health approach relies on. The hon. Member for Ashfield was happy to be part of delivering those cuts as a Conservative MP. Secondly, every childhood snatched, every pavement stained in blood, every family with one too many chairs at the dinner table is one too many.
Policing alone cannot and does not pretend to effect the culture change we need. For that, we need to deliver the public health approach properly. In London, the growing funding gap for local councils after years of austerity is about to be made worse by the Government’s unfair funding review and the risk of new Labour austerity. That means that the cracks in the system are now chasms.
For too many young people in Britain, feeling unsafe is not an occasional fear; it is part of the everyday fabric of their lives. I have met young people in London and in my constituency of Sutton, Cheam and Worcester Park for whom that sense of vulnerability sits in the background of everything they do. What we too often fail to recognise is that, when young people start to believe that no one else will protect them, they ask themselves a simple but devastating question: “If no one is going to keep me safe, how do I keep myself safe?” For some that is a turning point, when anxiety stops being a feeling and starts becoming a plan. Far too often, that plan involves carrying a knife.
We cannot wait until a child reaches that point. We have to intervene before that fear hardens into a decision to carry a weapon. Last May, 60% of young people surveyed told the Ben Kinsella Trust that they feel worried about knife crime. A 2009 study by the Centre for Crime and Justice Studies showed that 85% of young people who carry a weapon say they do so for self-protection. Many of the knives they carry are not the exotic or illegal zombie knives that attract headlines, nor weapons smuggled in on small boats; they are kitchen knives. That is not organised criminality; that is the tragic banality of a deteriorating everyday experience.
Jim McMahon
I understand the hon. Member is still developing his argument, but does he accept that one place young people should feel safe is in their own home? With the online world and messaging platforms, any intimidation, abuse and threats that might take place in school or on the street follow them 24 hours a day. Many parents, sometimes in the next room, have no idea what threats and intimidation their children are facing.
Luke Taylor
I agree that ensuring protection online is important, but as we have already heard, the loss of officers who most closely support children outside the home, such as those in schools, is equally important. The loss of those in London will be devastating to our communities.
Tackling knife crime cannot just be about enforcement; it must be treated as a health issue. It must be addressed early, consistently and systematically, and it must bring together a range of services that deal with young people, such as early intervention schemes, councils, NHS workers, carers, police officers, teachers, community leaders, social media influencers, parents, mental health workers, restorative practice advocates, and the various arms of Government that young people interact with, all under serious, mission-driven violence reduction units. That needs political buy-in, rather than meaninglessly aping its language without funding its tenets—a mistake that the former Government made with their serious violence strategy in 2018, and that the Mayor of London has made by not giving the violence reduction unit in London the tools it needs to do its job as effectively as possible. If we married that up with other key steps, it could be utterly transformative, turning good public policy into a vision for wider social renewal for young people.
The Minister may be aware that I met her predecessor to discuss that approach in more detail earlier this year, and I ask whether she would be willing to meet me to continue that discussion and see where we can work together on this vital issue. Surely in 2025 we have grown beyond the two-dimensional approach to the causes of crime, or the response to knife crime that the hon. Member for Ashfield presents. Surely by now we should be able to recognise that violence spreads among the most vulnerable like a virus, but it can be stopped in its tracks by good interventions acting as a vaccine to stop the spread. Surely by now we have learned that we cannot punish or scare away violent crime, and that good deterrents are not enough to stave it off when it has already buried its roots far too deeply in our neighbourhoods.
Not so long ago, a leader of the Labour party pledged to be
“tough on crime, tough on the causes of crime”,
and all I ask is that the Government recognise that we have done far too much of the former, and far too little of the latter. They must show that they recognise it is finally time to properly adopt a public health approach to save lives, save communities and save futures.
Matt Vickers (Stockton West) (Con)
Thank you for chairing this debate, Ms McVey, and I offer my condolences and pay tribute to those whose lives have been tragically lost as a result of knife crime. We recently saw the tragic dangers posed by knife crime during the appalling terrorist attack at Heaton Park, and I offer my condolences to the victims of that cowardly attack. As has been said, today marks four years since the death of the great Sir David Amess, whose family I am sure will be in all our thoughts.
I pay tribute to the hon. Member for Ashfield (Lee Anderson) for securing this important debate, for his ongoing work to highlight the impact of knife crime, and for his straight-talking common-sense efforts in this place. Crimes involving knives are devastating. The lives lost, and the crimes committed using those weapons, scar our society.
Given the Government’s ambition to reduce knife crime by half, I look forward to hearing what the new Minister has to say about the methods they intend to use to reach that ambitious target, which we would all like to see achieved. Under the last Government the headline rate of crime, excluding fraud and computing misuse, dropped by more than 50%, showing that such reductions in crime are possible. As shadow Minister in the Crime and Policing Bill Committee, I listened carefully to the proposals put forward by the Government. I am sure that Members on both sides of the House will welcome the Government bringing forward further proposals that could deliver reductions in such crime even more swiftly.
Although the number of hospital admissions related to knife crime has declined from its peak, it remains far too high. That problem is further exacerbated by the concentration of offences in hotspots: the crime survey for England and Wales from March this year shows that the Metropolitan police service area accounted for 31% of all offences, West Midlands police recorded 8%, and Greater Manchester 6%. The Met police recorded a staggering 9% increase, and data up to December 2024 shows that London accounts for 45.9% of all knifepoint robberies in England, despite having only 15.5% of the population. The Government must take further targeted action to address the situation. Over the past decade, steps have been taken, from banning knives to legislating for the serious violence duty and the role of violence reduction units, and violence against the person has decreased significantly since 2010, but knife crime remains far too high.
I welcome measures in the Crime and Policing Bill that replicate the proposals in the Criminal Justice Bill for more stringent rules on knife possession and expanded police powers. Increasing the penalty for those selling to under-18s is clearly a welcome means of protecting young people, but as police have highlighted, its practical impact on investigation timeframes will be critical in their efforts to prevent the illegal sale of these weapons. It is also important that, when police search a property, they have the authority to seize and destroy weapons where there are reasonable grounds to believe they may be used in unlawful violence.
Legislation alone is not enough. Getting more knives off our streets requires us to have more police on the streets, with the power to act and a focus on the crimes that really matter. The previous Government put a record number of police on our streets, and when the Conservatives left office there were more police on our streets than ever before, but since Labour came to power, we have seen a real hit to police funding affecting both the headcount and the resources available to police. This Government hit our police forces with a £230 million national insurance bill—literally taxing the police off our streets—and their failure to build the pay award into the funding settlement, as the previous Government had, is a further £200 million hit to funding.
The result is that police numbers are falling when they need to be increasing. The number of police officers, police community support officers and staff has already fallen by 1,316, and looks set to get much worse. The biggest hit is to the Met, which deals with a disproportionate amount of knife crime, as we have said. I hope that the Minister will be an active champion for our brave police officers, PCSOs and staff, and take the challenge to the Treasury so that police get the resource they need to tackle knife crime and save lives.
As I have said many times before, not only do we need to put more police on the streets, but we need them to be able to focus on the crimes that matter. Non-crime hate incidents have morphed beyond all recognition, and well beyond their intended purpose. Originally intended to apply when there was an imminent risk of crime, they now tie up 60,000 police hours every year—policing our tweets rather than policing our streets. The argument is well trod, whether in the press or in this place. Will the Minister comment briefly on what is being done to ensure that our police can focus on the crimes that matter most, such as knife crime?
The most direct way for the police to remove the threat posed by knives is to remove the knives from those who might do harm with them. Yes, we need to tackle gang culture and improve education so that young people are aware of the risks and harm created by their actions, and yes, we need to restrict sales to prevent young people from getting hold of weapons, but we also need to give our police officers the power, authority and backing they need to remove knives from the hands of those who might do us harm.
Stop and search removes knives and saves lives. We can see that in London without a doubt. There is a correlation between the Mayor’s decision to allow stop and search to decrease by 60% between 2021 and 2024 and the fact that the volume of knife crime offences increased by 86%. We need to remove the barriers that prevent our police officers from using stop and search. We debated this issue at length during the passage of the Crime and Policing Bill, and we encourage the Government to make appropriate amendments to legislation, including the Police and Criminal Evidence Act 1984 code A, to make it easier for officers to use.
Just before the election last year, the Government gave the Home Office £4 million to fight knife crime and boost the use of technology, including new technologies that can detect carried knives from a distance. What progress has been made with that, and what steps are the Government taking to harness new technologies in the fight against knife crime?
Given the impact of knife crime on families and communities, reducing it is an essential task for the Government. I hope that the Government will consider what more they can do to increase the ability of police to clamp down on these awful crimes. Alongside measures relating to education and support, we must ensure that our police are properly funded, deployed and resourced to tackle knife crime.
The Minister for Policing and Crime (Sarah Jones)
It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Ms McVey. I echo the comments that Members made about David Amess; we are all remembering him today. He was very kind to me, and he was a very good man, and we miss him very much in this place.
It has been a really good debate, and I thank Members for their contributions. I will pick out three that were particularly powerful. My hon. Friend the Member for Swindon North (Will Stone) brought his personal experience and history to the debate, which was very powerful. My hon. Friend the Member for Oldham West, Chadderton and Royton (Jim McMahon) talked about working-class boys being written off, and whole communities not being given the intervention and support they need. The hon. Member for East Wiltshire (Danny Kruger) talked about families and the need for our young people to understand what it is to be a man; that is so important and powerful, and I was pleased to hear it.
I thank the hon. Member for Ashfield (Lee Anderson) for securing the debate. There is much that I agree with him on. He made the point that if we cannot reduce knife crime and save lives, what are we doing in this place? I 100% agree. As the new Minister for Policing and Crime, tackling knife crime is an absolute priority for me.
Last week I met Pooja Kanda, the mother of Ronan Kanda, who in 2022 was fatally stabbed with a ninja sword. He had no involvement of any kind in crime. He was stabbed and ran to try to get home but collapsed a few doors away from his house. His mother has been campaigning ever since. She asked the Prime Minister to change the law on knife crime to stop a situation like this happening again. The Prime Minister listened to Pooja, and we are changing the law, because this Government believe in action, not words. We are introducing tougher rules for online retailers selling knives, with a penalty of two years’ imprisonment if they sell to a minor, and we are changing the age verification system, which is incredibly important, so that under-18s cannot get access to a knife.
It is our great mission in this Government to halve knife crime, and we will use action, not just words. Since taking office, we have reversed the trend on knife crime, and we will continue to work to do so. Where overall knife crime was rising, it is now falling. There has been clear, measurable progress: knife-enabled homicides fell by 23% in the year ending March 2025; hospital admissions for sharp object assaults dropped by 10% and are now 26% lower than pre-pandemic levels; and police-recorded knife-enabled assault dropped by 4% in the year ending March 2025.
Knife crime affects the whole country, but if we look at the statistics, we see that knife crime is most acute in certain areas, and that is where we are putting our resources. In the top seven police force areas, we have established a taskforce to attack knife-enabled robbery in particular. We have released new statistics today which show that those seven police force areas have turned a 14% increase in offence levels at the outset of the taskforce into a 10% reduction, which is an incredible achievement.
In London, which has been much discussed today, violent crime leading to injury has fallen in all 23 boroughs. We can all produce statistics—the hon. Member for East Wiltshire is right that there are statistics that show progress, and there are statistics that do not. I gently ask that we all interrogate those statistics. I want to highlight one particular statistic: although it is correct that the number of stop and searches has fallen in London, the number of stop and searches for offensive weapons has increased. There has been a 27% increase in the number of searches for offensive weapons, as opposed to other stop and searches, which tend to be drug-related. We need to investigate statistics and use them wisely, to make sure we are reaching the right conclusions.
I want to highlight a couple of policies that we are introducing that I have been particularly impacted by. I have had the honour in the last four weeks of being Policing Minister of attending two police raids where we arrested some nasty criminals. I am very proud of our police for what they did. The first involved a huge gang network in London that was taking stolen phones and selling them to China and Hong Kong. This huge operation undertaken by the Met has taken out a gang that is responsible for up to half of all the phone thefts in London, which is quite extraordinary.
The second involved county lines, which the hon. Member for Runcorn and Helsby (Sarah Pochin) talked about. We took off the streets a nasty, violent criminal who has been running a county line. We are investing significantly in police resources for county lines because the connection between knife crime and drugs is clear. In the areas where we have invested and supported the police in tackling county lines, there has been a 23% reduction in stabbings. Focused policing works, and it is absolutely the right way to go.
We are also changing the law to help the police to tackle county lines. We have three new offences: child criminal exploitation, cuckooing, and plugging, which is—I do not really like to speak of it—when people are forced to put drugs inside themselves to hide them from the police. It is increasingly used with children and we need to stop that. There is some evidence of our intervention in county lines having an effect: the age of those exploited is rising because the criminals have realised that we will come for them if they exploit children. That is a good thing, but the criminals will try to find other vulnerable people to exploit, so we need to keep on top of that.
I am aware of the time, but there was a lot of talk about sentencing. I agree that we need to make sure that sentencing acts as a deterrent and that it needs to be swift, clear and consistent. We inherited a situation where around 1,000 young people a year caught in possession of a knife received no meaningful intervention. That cannot be right. We are changing that rule and introducing sentences around knife crime that will ensure that people are given the right punishment. We are not abolishing short sentences—I need to be really clear about that. Judges will always have that power.
I am paying close attention to a new policy in Thames Valley, where if a person under 18 is caught in possession of a knife, they are referred to a youth offending team for interventions, and over-18s are remanded straight away, before they are charged. There is evidence that that is starting to have an effect. We need to watch that and make sure that we are following the evidence in terms of sentencing, but it is a reasonable point to make.
I am aware that I need to give the hon. Member for Ashfield time to respond. There are many more things I could say. I have not responded to his points on migration, but I can talk to him afterwards. I have some things to say, but I know that he needs a couple of minutes to respond. I would like to finish by saying that this Government’s mantra is “Action, not words”. I absolutely support the police in what they are trying to do. I will ensure that we reduce knife crime. It is the mission of this Government to do so.
Lee Anderson
Thank you, Ms McVey, for the way you handled the unruly situation early on with great dignity. I would like to give a special mention to Sir David Amess. The last time I spoke to Sir David was in this room, when he chaired a debate just over four years ago. I thank everybody for turning up today and for their contributions. I agreed with a lot of most of them.
The Lib Dem spokesman spoke about the time when I supported the Conservative Government’s cuts to the police force. I gently remind him that I was not in the Conservative party at that time—he might want to take that away. I am a little bit encouraged by what the Minister had to say. I thank Adam Brooks and Norman Brennan, who are in the Public Gallery today. They set up an online petition to bring this debate to Parliament and asked me to sign it. I said, “No, I’m not signing it—I’m going to apply for a debate in Westminster Hall.” If the Lib Dem spokesman wants to speak to a retired police officer and a gentleman whose family was affected brutally by knife crime, he is welcome to do so after this debate.
Question put and agreed to.
Resolved,
That this House has considered the matter of knife crime.