Lords Chamber

Thursday 5th June 2025

(began 1 month, 2 weeks ago)

Share Debate
Watch Live
Skip to latest contribution
This debate has concluded
11:07
None Portrait Oral questions: Recommendations of Matt Clifford’s 'AI Opportunities Action Plan', published on 13 January.
-



**** Possible New Speaker ****

First First Oral First Oral Question.

**** Possible New Speaker ****

I beg leave to ask the question standing in my name on the Order standing in my name on the Order Paper. And declare my technology interests, as set out in the
11:08
11:08
11:09
Lord Vallance of Balham Portrait Lord Vallance of Balham, Minister of State (Department for Science, Innovation and Technology) (Labour)
-
-
Thank you. There are three approaches to making sure that we get the consistency and appropriate regulation and support, as the noble Lord has suggested. The first is that the regulators that already look after their own domains will of course look after AI in their domains. And we are making sure that they are properly supported to do that. And that they can join up, for example, in the digital regulation, to learn lessons across different areas as they apply that to AI in their domains.

The second is the approach to assurance. In other words, to develop an assurance industry in the UK, to be able to assure when people use AI, that it is indeed performing what they expect it to perform in the way they expect to do it. That is true for government, with the AI playbook the government addresses some of the wider issues and in developing the assurance industry overall. And looking at areas like bias in systems. The third though is the one that he alludes to.

Which is the question about as artificial general intelligence, artificial super intelligence and the latest models come along, and that is why we remain committed to bringing forward AI legislation, so we can realise the enormous benefits and opportunities of this technology in a safe and secure way. We are continuing to refine our proposals and hope to launch a public consultation before the end of the year.
11:10
11:11
11:12
11:12
11:13
11:13
11:14
11:14
11:15
11:16
11:17
11:18
11:18
None Portrait Oral questions: Discussions on proposals for the UK to provide a security guarantee to Ukraine
-

Second Oral Questions, Lord Campbell-Savours he was participating online virtually.
11:18
11:19
11:20
11:21
11:22
11:22
11:23
11:23
11:24
11:25
11:25
11:25
11:26
11:27
11:27
11:28
11:28
11:29
None Portrait Oral questions: Supporting primary and community care settings to integrate in vitro point of care diagnostics
-

Third Oral Questions.
11:29
11:30
11:31
11:32
11:33
11:34
11:34
11:34
11:35
11:36
11:36
11:37
11:37
11:38
11:38
Baroness Merron Portrait Baroness Merron, The Parliamentary Under-Secretary for Health and Social Care (Labour)
-
-
Well, we constantly are reviewing how we best support where we need to go and in this case, it is about getting tests done closer to home and at the noble Lord is right, for a number of people, GP practice is a good place. But not in all cases, so it is what is appropriate. I can say that we announced a 889 million uplift for general practice, 25/26 which is the largest uplift to GP funding, since at the beginning of the five year framework, in 2019.

We have also agreed a GP contract and the noble Lord will be aware that recently we announced over £1 million to help with the estate, the quality of the estate for primary care, to ensure that we can provide some 11 million appointments further this year. Whilst I would accept that it is about configuration, I would assure the noble Lord has support for GPs. support for GPs. Filth Oral Questions, Baroness Ritchie of Patrick. standing in my name on the Order

**** Possible New Speaker ****

Paper. -- Fourth Oral Questions. While some supply constraints remain redundantly with the product, the stock is regularly being delivered to pharmacies. Alternative products and unlicensed impacts products and unlicensed impacts products and unlicensed impacts imports already. But it has been prescribed on alternatives and utilising serious shortage protocols utilising serious shortage protocols to limit quantities dispensed. With actions for ICBs, Integrated Care Boards, to ensure that patients are Boards, to ensure that patients are not left without alternatives. We
11:40
11:41
11:42
11:43
11:44
11:45
11:46
11:46
11:47
11:48
11:49
11:49
11:51
Baroness Neville-Rolfe Portrait Baroness Neville-Rolfe (Conservative)
-
-
My Lords, the statement given in the other house yesterday made many references to the benefits of growth, and the chipset of the Treasury could hardly contain his excitement could grow the economy significantly. We on the side of the House, of course, would welcome the And although mentioned the statement nine times there was little to no detail on how these proposals would indeed. The economy. One vital question is whether this level of investment whether it would require new money would require an increase in taxation given the national data is already around 100% of GDP as we know from the countries experiences with inheritance tax and the hike, tax rises on bad growth are bad for the economy so I hope noble Lords the Minister can provide the House with some clarity on this question stop can he confirm to us what the net figure is for the projected cumulative impact on this policy on tissue and economic growth by the end of Parliament? Can he assured the House that this Parliament party will not be party to any new increases and also the statement gives me a sense of dej vu because the measures announced are incredibly similar to those made by the previous Government and the transport settlements in 2023, so in 2023 we promised to .64 billion from the West Midlands, and the Government have announced 2.4 million for the West Midlands.

We promise to .1 million for West Yorkshire. And now they have announced promised to .5 million for Greater Manchester, they have announced 2.5 billion. Indeed, much of this investment touted by the Government PS2 have been recycled. Money already announced in different forms under previous schemes is now repackaged. This needs careful examination, so perhaps the Minister could help us here with an honest assessment. The Government quotes the Green Book which it is advising to give more funding for projects that out of the south-east, so a change, in the way that this money grows.

Given that this has already been proved, what are the key features here and have the projects announced yesterday been assessed on the old or on the new basis? How would the rules be home to avoid ministerial inspired elephants? I had the honour of chairing the bill environment committee with many across the House and of leading its work in 2022 on public transport in towns and cities. We found that nearly 2/3 of public transport were by bus. What do the Governments plans do for bus funding? I am less interested today in the rapid bus routes planned for Liverpool and in basic bus services that so many people take to work, especially when they live outside our cities and communities.

The Government have increased the maximum two pound further that we introduced and have not guaranteed its long-term future. The committee also confirmed that light rail schemes are very expensive and that very light rail systems like that in Coventry and bus rapid transport transit schemes had more potential and needed to be assessed and compared. What has the Government concluded about the balance here and how is that reflected across yesterday's package? My Lords, we support infrastructure investment when it is targeted, timely, and impactful.

But what we heard from the Chancellor achieves a yesterday was less of a plan and more of a press release. The funding spread over nearly 1 decade would not go unnoticed until 2027. That is two years from now before the money if the Treasury. For communities and Midlands in the North, this would sound like delay dressed up as action, so can the noble of the Minister confirm when we will see the effect of this policy reflected in regional and national growth and productivity rates.

Can he assure the House that businesses in the areas identified will see a tangible improvement in their day-to-day operations as well as a result of these spending decisions. After all, it is business, not Government, that is more productive, and the main driver of growth. The Noble Lord and I agree on the importance of productivity growth. However, to achieve this improvement cited in the statement requires much more than this welcome transport investment. We need a revolution in skills, innovation, and digitalisation and public sector efficiency.

And to solve the problem of uncompetitive electricity prices crippling our industries, especially in the very regions that we are talking about today. Finally, I must raise a note of caution on the fiscal front. At a time of considerable pressure on public finances, we must be clear eyed about priorities. A commitment of this scale without clear delivery mechanisms or clarity and projected economic returns risks becoming a drain rather than a driver. Transport investment must support productivity, growth, and value for money and must not become an uncosted political gesture reliant on anti-growth decisions or tax on anti-growth decisions or tax hikes, to it is incumbent on the Government to be responsible in the steps that they take, and so I look forward to the noble Lords and says today, and in next week's Spending Review, when we will return to some of these issues.
11:58
Baroness Pidgeon Portrait Baroness Pidgeon (Liberal Democrat)
-
-
The Liberal Democrat benches fully support measures to grow our economy across every nation and every region. We therefore welcome the statement detailing planned investment in public transport and infrastructure. And it is good to see not just plans but also the money set aside for some city regions, giving long-term transport financial settlements which, quite frankly, is the only sensible way to ensure investment to transport infrastructure rather than constant stop start approach we saw with the previous Government which benefits no one and delivers nothing.

And communities have promises only with transport networks cross investment in transport infrastructure is vital if we are to grow our economy, create access to jobs across the country. In particular, we are very pleased to see that link to Stockport in this announcement and working on this issue for many years, and indeed long before the combined authority. But we do have a number of questions. It does seem that areas without them are being left behind. Where is the plan for rural areas? There are pubs in the south-west, for example, that would benefit hugely from transport into structure investment.

This area has been ignored in the statement and it feels as though Bristol is as far west as the Government can see. Whether it is Cumbria, Shropshire, Norfolk, Devon and Cornwall, there is nothing in this statement for them. So, what plans does the Government have for rural growth strategy? What funding is planned for our railways as they come under public ownership? There is a desperate need for major investment to enable frequent trains to serve, communities will there be a railway investment plan? And will there be allocated further funding to maintain that capitals transport system, creating jobs across the country.

Cost affairs is a real barrier to many people, so what plans are there to reduce fares, in particular, to reinstate the DuPont bus fare And to reform real first to make them affordable for passengers. And alongside the investment and infrastructure there is a challenge in that skills and workforce issues. What plans does the covenant have to ensure that we have the skill training workforce to this instructor, including fixing the apprenticeship levy. This is a welcome first step, a key question that needs to be answered to ensure that every area can grow and
12:00
Lord Livermore Portrait Lord Livermore, The Financial Secretary to the Treasury (Labour)
-
-
Am very grateful to both noble Baroneseses, Lady Neville-Rolfe and can I welcome the bonus to her place, I look forward to speaking with her in many more of these debates. Baroness Neville-Rolfe started by asking about growth. I noticed she didn't mention in this quarter the UK is the fastest growing economy in the G7. She didn't mention that both forecaster been updated by the ima. Mentioned in business surveys, business confidence is at the highest level for many years.

I hope when she talks about growth give a round picture of where we are on growth. She asked whether or not these measures will contribute to regional growth, yes of course they will, that is the whole point of them. For , relying on just one part of the country to generate high growth. We need to make sure that more parts of our country are contributing to growth and more people throughout our country are feeling the benefits of that growth. That is absolutely what we are doing what we're doing.

It is why we have started with connectivity. We need a connecting city regions are incredibly important for enabling more people to travel to work, connecting labour markets, businesses to more places, they can sell more goods to more people. That is absolutely central to what we set out yesterday. The answer is the contribution, absolutely. We saw, in the Spring Statement, the OBR scoring for the first time, some of our growth measures, they will continue to score our growth measures going forward. She talked about money.

Is forward. She talked about money. Is this any money? Absolutely, yes. We announced £50 million, yesterday of new money. The biggest ever investment, by any British Government in regional transport networks. As a result of the fiscal rules and the difficult decisions that we have taken, we are increasing in the spending review the overall amount of spending by £300 billion, £190 million an increase of £113 million in capital spending. -- 300 million. We notice a Baroness Neville-Rolfe mentioned, slightly hot half-heartedly, welcomed.

It is notable she welcomed the additional spending. At no point has she welcomed any other measures, the difficult measures we have taken to raise that money, so that we can spend it on the things that she is now welcoming. I think the her shadow chancellor today is making a speech where he is seeking to distance himself from the Liz Truss approach, from the previous Parliament. It is seems to me that the party opposite is repeating exactly the same mistakes as Liz Truss, mini-budget, spending money that they do not have.

I think that is a huge problem going forward. She has welcomed the spending, but opposed every single measure we have taken to raise the money, to fund that. She says will this policy require any additional taxes? No, require any additional taxes? No, because we have already raised the taxes, to enable us to spend this money, for the rest of this Parliament. So yes these measures will be met within the envelope that was set in the last budget. The noble Lady said that these are the same measures as of the previous government announced.

She kept using the phrase, we promised. I think that is a really important phrase, because yes they did promised many things, but they did not put a single penny of funding behind any other promises are made. The big difference between what we are doing now, what the Chancellor announced yesterday and the previous government announced was that they made lots and lots of promises, they never funded. Single penny of funding. Referring to the 20 billion penny of funding. Referring to the £20 billion black hole.

That is exactly why the black hole occurred. What we announced yesterday was real funding, for real measures going forward. It is a big fundamental difference. She asked for an honest assessment. I call for honesty to the previous government did not find any of those policies. She asked about the Green book, we set out how it was used by previous governments, against regional authorities, local mayors, as a reason not to invest outside of London and the South West. We have change that methodology, we will send out in the spending review, full details of that review and I look forward to discussing the full details of that with her.

She said that funding wouldn't be seen for two years from now. Of course there was no funding seen under the last government, at all. Of course we have to start somewhere. We have to get the money out of the door. She is absolutely right. Space will be in the ground in this Parliament and, will we see improvements for business? Yes, that is absolutely the purpose, to connect businesses to more areas. That is why it is so vital and it is why we have started where we are.

She talked about the fiscal fund and I completely agree with her, of course there are increasing fresh pressures, it is where say to her, we must not make promises we cannot afford. The previous government did exactly that, we will not make that mistake. Lady Baroness Pidgeon asked questions, and very grateful to her, these are long-term... It is right that national government is working with local government and local government leaders to deliver on these promises. She put it as a welcome first step and I agree with exactly that sentiment.

I think we were very clear what we were and what we want announcing yesterday. Yesterday we were announcing activity in city regions will stop it focused on certain city regions. Next week we will set out, in full, the entire spending review, the entire regional plan for growth, for the rest of England. The plan for Scotland, Wales, Northern Ireland. That is what we're doing, yesterday we were talking freely purely about the city regions and we will put the plan in first, we know that is the essential beginning., In terms of our growth strategy.

She touched on a number of other growth things that are important to growth. She talked about skills for example. Completely agree with her, when it comes to skills and we will be setting out the spending review and then in the Industrial Strategy, the weeks following the spending review and the measures we are taking. She Build this, absolutely agree with her. On that point. She asked about funding for railways, she asked for funding for the rest of the country, regional plans and she asked about the Mayor of London, etc., etc..

All of these questions will be addressed in the spending review next week and I look forward to discussing that with her and other laws next week. And bosses too, of course, yes. And bosses too, of course, yes.
12:07
12:08
12:09
12:09
12:10
12:11
12:11
12:13
12:14
12:15
Lord Livermore Portrait Lord Livermore, The Financial Secretary to the Treasury (Labour)
-
-
I think yes, hopefully I can say I agree with both of the points that the noble Lord makes. He asks about the Green Book and I know he is a much more experienced in this matter than I do. We have set out that for too long, I think you would agree with this, the guidance in the Green Book is biased against certain parts of the country. I think we ought to address that. He says that, we can make sure we prioritise the study where has the greatest return.

This is key to the methodology Green Book set out. The Green Book kind of reinforced investment in areas that were already successful. It didn't necessarily enable investment in areas where there was a high degree of potential. I think that is what we want to do, by investing in areas with a degree of high potential, it won't be high returns but I think it could be a potential increase in about 3% GVA, in terms of if we can get the city regions up to the average, in terms of productivity.

What Baroness and Lady Neville-Rolfe said. That is the intention and that is what we are doing what we are doing. The importance of fiscal responsibility. I think absolutely that is why, as he will know, this government inherited a situation £22 billion black hole in the public finances, restoring fiscal responsibility is the central driving purpose of the stability pillar of our growth mission. We have set out clear fiscal rules that are no borrowing the day-to-day spending. Unlike the previous government, £22 billion black hole in the day-to-day spending to stop have repair than at the first opportunity we will be testing at the Spring Statement.

We repaired the headroom against the fiscal rules, in full to what it was before. We have set out, very clear fiscal rules, we will stick to those fiscal rules and everything we set out in the budget next week will show is fully funded and in line show is fully funded and in line show is fully funded and in line
12:17
12:18
12:19
12:20
12:21
12:22
This debate has concluded
Return to start of debate - Return to top of page