Railways: Timetables

Baroness Sugg Excerpts

Tuesday 17th July 2018 Lords Chamber

[Lord Bradshaw]

To ask Her Majesty’s Government what progress has been made in the inquiry by the Office of Rail and Road, led by Stephen Glaister, into the implementation of the new railway timetables on 20 May.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department for Transport (Baroness Sugg) (Con)]

My Lords, the Office of Rail and Road inquiry began its work on 13 June and is proceeding at pace. The inquiry is in its evidence-gathering phase, collecting evidence from passenger representative groups, industry and the Government about the preparations for the timetabling change, the key decisions that were made, and the impact on passengers. Initial findings will be published in September, with final reports at the end of the year.

[Lord Bradshaw (LD)]

I thank the noble Baroness for that reply. The introduction of the new timetables in May was the result of very many years’ work. The rolling stock had to be ordered 12 years ago, and the timetables had to be approved by the Office of Rail Regulation in the course of that action. Can I be assured that Professor Glaister will inquire thoroughly into what part the Office of Rail Regulation played in the delays, and what part was played by the department in the delay in ordering rolling stock in this case? Will the noble Baroness also explain whether any of the four assessors who have been appointed have any experience of running a mixed-traffic railway?

[Baroness Sugg]

My Lords, I can certainly give the noble Lord the assurance that the inquiry will cover the role of both the department and the ORR itself. The inquiry’s terms of reference include both examination of the department’s approach and the role of the ORR as the independent regulator of Network Rail. The Department for Transport is of course fully co-operating with the inquiry, and we look forward to receiving its results. The panel indeed has members with experience of the rail industry. Michael Beswick had a full career in British Rail, and Mike Brown is the commissioner of Transport for London.

[Lord Naseby (Con)]

My Lords, while an inquiry is enormously welcome, will my noble friend recognise a practical issue on the Govia Thameslink Peterborough line, which I try to use? Even at the new, third attempt yesterday, the prime-time service was cancelled as early workers tried to get into the City of London. Surely the time has come for Her Majesty’s Government to find someone to liaise closely with Govia management, to make sure that it at least gets things moving properly on its next attempt. I very much hope it will be fired from the contract in any case.

--- Later in debate ---

[Baroness Sugg]

My Lords, there have been far too many cancellations at Peterborough and across the country, creating long gaps between services. We have been clear with GTR that the interim timetable, which began on Sunday, must provide passengers on the line with the service they deserve and reduce gaps in services to acceptable levels. For Peterborough specifically, there will be half-hourly trains off-peak and up to four trains per hour during peak hours. New services will also be added as soon as possible.

[The Lord Bishop of Southwark]

Noble Lords should be aware that my diocese extends across most of south London and east Surrey. Since the availability of employment and the affordability of housing are at an increasing distance from each other for a great and growing proportion of the population, people need a rail system of adequate capacity, affordable to their means, which is utterly reliable and efficient in its running. Does the Minister accept that the current arrangements do not deliver these criteria? Is there a proper sense of urgency about addressing this matter?

[Baroness Sugg]

My Lords, I certainly agree that passengers expect an adequate, affordable service with capacity, and we are working towards that. A record £47.9 billion is being invested in our railways over the next control period, which should bring improvements to connectivity across the country.

[Lord Blunkett (Lab)]

My Lords, here is a bit of a googly but the Minister will be well up for it. Given that the rationale for the substantial worsening of running times from Sheffield to St Pancras and intermediate stations was the large increase in train availability for London and the south-east, will she ask the inquiry now to restore the running times from Sheffield to London so that we can have a service back?

[Baroness Sugg]

My Lords, I am not sure I recognise that as the reason for the issues in Sheffield. We are investing in the biggest upgrade of the line since it was completed in 1870. We are working closely with Network Rail on the upgrade and we expect to deliver it in 2020, which will improve train times. We are working continually with the train operating company to ensure that the new timetable implementation is delivered successfully.

[Baroness Randerson (LD)]

My Lords, 200 services were cancelled by Thameslink and Great Northern yesterday, so the first day of the third version of the timetable was predictably bad, with all the same delays, cancellations and misinformation. It is time to give passengers a stronger voice. Will the Minister agree that all boards must have a passenger representative, and will the Government hold these powerful companies to account, forcing them to pay proper compensation to all passengers, not just those with season tickets?

[Baroness Sugg]

My Lords, sadly we have seen some interruption in the interim timetables delivered on Sunday. However, we are seeing daily improvements and it is worth remembering that, even with the interim timetables, there are 100 more services per day than before. There will be 400 more services per day once we get back up to our planned level. I assure the noble Baroness that we will absolutely hold the train operating companies to account. As well as the independent inquiry, we are looking at a hard review into each of the franchises to ensure that they have behaved appropriately. If they have not, we will certainly take action.

[Lord Snape (Lab)]

My Lords, will the Minister accept that the 10% reduction in timetabling expenditure demanded by Professor Glaister would itself have an impact on the chaos that we are seeing? Is she aware that the view in the railway industry is that this inquiry is designed to cover up the mistakes of Ministers, with blame then of course allocated to the train operating company rather than to the Secretary of State? On that point, fresh from the chaos that was the Ministry of Justice, Mr Grayling now presides over a wrecking ball to the national timetable. Does the Minister think he is incompetent or just unlucky?

[Baroness Sugg]

My Lords, I am afraid that I have not seen that 10% timetabling figure but I will certainly go back to the department to follow that up. I assure the noble Lord that this inquiry is absolutely not a cover-up. As I said, the expert panel will have particular regard to whether the ORR’s role as regulator has been properly assessed by the inquiry. The inquiry will look very carefully at the role of the Department for Transport in planning the enhancements and at the approach to planning general network changes.

[Lord Kirkhope of Harrogate (Con)]

My Lords, would it not be a good idea if those who ran our railways were to reconsider the excellent example of the original Bradshaw’s guide to the railways for a timetable?

[Baroness Sugg]

My Lords, I must admit that I have not read that guide but I look forward to reading it over the Summer Recess.

[Lord West of Spithead (Lab)]

My Lords, I have asked this question before but it was not answered. Because the French own it, have the Government had any discussions with the French Government about the appalling service in the Southern region?

[Baroness Sugg]

My Lords, we work carefully with all the train operating companies. I do not believe that we have discussed that detail with the French Government, but if that is not the case I will certainly write to the noble Lord.

Railways: Train Timetables

Baroness Sugg Excerpts

Wednesday 11th July 2018 Lords Chamber

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department for Transport (Baroness Sugg) (Con)]

My Lords, while many of the new timetables have been delivered around the country, that is certainly not the case in all areas. Following the continued disruption faced by GTR and Northern passengers, both operators are introducing an interim timetable designed to provide a more predictable service for passengers. GTR’s interim timetable was published on 6 July and will come into effect on Sunday. Northern’s interim timetable, introduced on 4 June, has already helped to restore stability. Further changes to add in additional Northern services are planned for the end of July.

[Baroness Randerson (LD)]

My Lords, misleading claims are made about the eventual benefits of these new timetables. Commuters from Harpenden now have 15 fewer rush-hour trains and fewer carriages. Hitchin used to have 29 rush-hour trains to and from London; that has now halved to 16. They are among the busiest stations on the route and, even when the trains run as scheduled, which is rare, they are now so full that commuters cannot physically squeeze themselves on. Will the Minister ask Thameslink what the good people of Hitchin and Harpenden have done to deserve such an appalling new service?

[Baroness Sugg]

My Lords, with the delivery of the new timetable, we have had to cancel services, and services in Hertfordshire have been particularly badly affected, with consistently poor performance. Once all the services are in place, passengers from Hitchin and Welwyn will be able to take direct services through the Thameslink core to several London stations. I appreciate that that is little comfort for the coming weeks, but from Sunday the interim timetable will improve reliability, prioritise peak-time services and aim to reduce the long gaps in services.

[Lord Clark of Windermere (Lab)]

My Lords, the Northern rail service and the Lakes line is only 50% of the previous service. Does the Minister realise that those trains run only because crews have been transferred from the other Cumbrian line to Barrow and west Cumbria? What is she going to do to ensure that Northern has enough train drivers to run the timetable that it says it is going to? Why does not she take the franchise away from it?

[Baroness Sugg]

My Lords, I am aware of the 50% service, which was also only just recently reintroduced. It is supplemented by buses, but I am aware that that is not acceptable. By the end of July, we will see the restoration of services that were temporarily withdrawn to restore stability, but we are working closely with Northern to ensure that it is able to deliver the provision that it has promised.

[Baroness Rawlings (Con)]

My Lords, I concur with the two previous questioners. Gareth Edwards, stakeholder manager of Govia Thameslink Railway, has admitted that there have been none of the promised improvements to our service from King’s Lynn to King’s Cross, but assures me very politely that it is doing all it can. This was a reliable, comfortable service and the situation, as you have heard, is dire. Millions of regular travellers have suffered constantly from endless delays and cancellations since the introduction of the new timetable. I have been in touch with the Secretary of State and the local MP, but what solution are they going to provide?

[Baroness Sugg]

My Lords, the new timetable was planned to deliver hundreds more services up and down the country to benefit passengers, but I think that we can all agree that it has not been successfully delivered. As I say, we are working closely with the train operating companies to ensure that the interim timetables provide the reliable services that passengers expect and deserve. We are conducting a review into whether GTR has met its contractual obligations, which will report in the coming weeks. Once completed, we will follow the advice.

[Lord Rosser (Lab)]

An industry readiness board was set up to review and direct,

“industry programmes for Thameslink 2018 operational readiness to minimise all risks associated with entry into service and ongoing sustained operations”.

The Department for Transport sat on that readiness board, with its “operational readiness” remit. How can the Secretary of State for Transport maintain that he has no responsibility or accountability for the operational effectiveness and performance of the railway network—including the present shambles—when his own department was represented on the Thameslink 2018 industry readiness board with its clear operational readiness remit?

[Baroness Sugg]

My Lords, the rail industry has collectively failed to deliver for its customers. It is right that it apologise, and the Department for Transport has apologised too. As I have said, we are prioritising the reliability of the service, but I take the noble Lord’s point. That is why we have set up an independent inquiry —to understand what went wrong. We are eagerly awaiting its recommendations because we must learn these lessons, and we will.

[Lord Laming (CB)]

My Lords, I know that the Minister is sympathetic to those of us who have to rely upon Thameslink to get us here. It is not only that the company ignores its own timetable; it fails to inform its own staff and to keep its own website up to date. Everything at the present time is just a myth. Can the Minister do whatever she can to help Thameslink get just some of the fundamentals in place?

[Baroness Sugg]

My Lords, I entirely agree that the information on what services are available is absolutely key, so that passengers can plan their journeys and buy their tickets. There have obviously been failures—big failures—in this but, with the introduction of the interim timetable on Sunday, we expect there to be more reliable services so that people can plan their journeys effectively.

[Lord Bradshaw (LD)]

I wonder whether the Minister would reconsider the advice that has gone out from the rail delivery group, no doubt with the support of the department, that there will be no further timetable changes until December or next May. Essentially, it has to be got right now. Will she ensure that any incremental improvements are rolled out to help people who are suffering such distress?

[Baroness Sugg]

My Lords, we are working to re-establish the May timetable across all franchises and we will continue to do so until we reach the promised level of services. On the December timetable change that was announced on Monday, there will still be new services, but other services will be introduced gradually over the next few timetable changes in order to avoid the situation we are facing now. Planners will absolutely try to make the small adjustments that they can, listening to what passengers actually need in order to try to improve the service.

Stonehenge Tunnel

Baroness Sugg Excerpts

Monday 9th July 2018 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Pidding]

To ask Her Majesty’s Government what progress has been made with the plan to build the A303 Stonehenge tunnel.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department for Transport (Baroness Sugg) (Con)]

My Lords, the upgrade of the A303 to dual carriageway standard includes a tunnel to remove the road from much of the Stonehenge landscape. Following consultation on route options, the preferred route was announced in September 2017. Highways England developed the scheme further before statutory consultation this year on the proposals. The consultation responses will inform the proposals submitted this autumn for planning consent. Subject to statutory approval, construction is planned to begin in 2021.

[Baroness Pidding (Con)]

I thank the Minister for that positive response. Does she agree that both business and tourism in the south-west rely on good transport infrastructure? We need to ensure that we have reliable connectivity with the region, especially improving the resilience of the single-track railway through Dawlish.

[Baroness Sugg]

My Lords, I agree with my noble friend that we need to ensure that we have reliable connectivity across the south-west, both to promote business links with that part of the world and to facilitate tourism—at £4.5 billion a year, the area has the UK’s highest domestic tourism expenditure by region. That is why the Government are investing £2 billion in the strategic road network in the south-west. Of course, the rail network also plays an important role in supporting the south-west. Specifically on Dawlish, we have fixed the damage caused by the storms in 2014. We do not want to see that happen again, so we are investing further in resilience work.

[Baroness Bakewell of Hardington Mandeville (LD)]

My Lords, the widening and modernising of the A303 through Stonehenge and down into Somerset is long overdue, although, as the Minister says, consultation has at last begun. However, no benefit is being offered to the communities along the A359, which is also part of the A303 improvement scheme, between Mudford, Sparkford and Queen Camel. These communities have suffered much in the past and are likely to suffer more, particularly during the construction stages. Can the Minister say why no compensation is being offered to alleviate their misery?

[Baroness Sugg]

My Lords, the scheme is part of a long-term strategy to better link the M3 and the south-east to the M5 and the south-west. Upgrading to a continuous dual carriageway standard will transform it into a high-quality route. Of course, the local residents will benefit from that. I am afraid I do not have specific information for the noble Baroness on compensation, but I will write to her. But, as I say, there will be benefits, both from the improved connectivity and the removal of rat-running through villages.

[Lord Berkeley (Lab)]

My Lords, can the Minister explain how long the tunnel underneath Stonehenge is? This issue has been around for 20 or 30 years and the tunnel gets longer and longer because the archaeologists keep digging up further remains at each end of it. Is this the end of the tunnelling, or are they going to find more remains to make it even longer?

[Baroness Sugg]

My Lords, as the noble Lord points out, this is a key heritage site and we are being very careful when making our plans for this. The heritage site suffers significant congestion because the single carriageway carries significantly more traffic than it was designed for, and that is why the tunnel is important. The proposed scheme includes a free-flowing dual carriageway and a tunnel of at least 1.8 miles in length.

[Lord Geddes (Con)]

My Lords, as one who suffers weekly from the appalling congestion on the A303 at Stonehenge, picking up the question from the Liberal Democrats Benches could I ask my noble friend how much further west improvements are going to be made, or is the bottleneck simply going to be pushed fractionally from east to west?

[Baroness Sugg]

My Lords, as I said, we have committed £2 billion to the south-west strategic road network. It will include the first three schemes to achieve the continuous dual carriageway: Southfields to Taunton; Sparkford to Ilchester; and Amesbury to Berwick Down. The intention is to complete the remaining five schemes for the full corridor upgrade in future road investment strategies.

[Lord Rosser (Lab)]

My Lords, 5,000 responses were received to the consultation earlier this year on the proposals to improve the A303 past Stonehenge on the 7.5 miles between Amesbury and Berwick Down. Those 5,000 responses have prompted a further consultation on what the recent advertisements in the press describe as “certain aspects” over four weeks from 17 July. What are the certain aspects on which Highways England will shortly be seeking further views which could not reasonably have been foreseen and included as part of the earlier consultation? When will the A303 proposals be submitted for development consent? The Highways England website says mid-2018, but there is a further consultation to come.

[Baroness Sugg]

My Lords, this is a complicated site and we need to do all we can to preserve it. Since the consultation ended, the scheme has undergone further consideration and further development, which led to the identification of three changes, specifically: removing the previously proposed links between byways 11 and 12; widening the green bridge proposed near the existing Longbarrow roundabout to improve the physical and visual connection; and moving the proposed modification of Rollestone crossroads to provide a more compact junction layout. That consultation will take place until 14 August, and then the feedback will be considered and the DCO will be submitted.

[Baroness Butler-Sloss (CB)]

My Lords, I hope the Minister is aware of the very poor road between the end of Somerset and Honiton in east Devon. At Honiton there is a dual carriageway, but there is a long and very dreary period to get from Honiton into Somerset. Something urgently needs to be done.

[Baroness Sugg]

My Lords, the £2 billion that we are investing in south-west roads will improve issues across the south-west. I am afraid that I do not know about the exact details that the noble Baroness has raised, but I will find out and write to her.

[Baroness Neville-Rolfe (Con)]

My Lords, I have lived just beyond the stones all my life and am absolutely delighted with the progress that is being made and with the improvements that English Heritage has made to visiting Stonehenge as a site—we should celebrate that. I would like to ask: assuming that work starts in 2021, which I obviously very much hope, when will the road be open?

[Baroness Sugg]

My Lords, assuming that work starts in 2021, which we are very much working towards, it will be complete in 2026.

[Baroness Young of Old Scone (Lab)]

My Lords, in view of the Government’s evident enthusiasm for tunnels, could I press the Minister on why they are so unenthusiastic in the context of HS2, when there is carnage for ancient woodland up and down both the phase 1 and the phase 2A routes which could be solved by tunnels?

--- Later in debate ---

[Baroness Sugg]

My Lords, of course there are tunnels on the HS2 route, and where they are placed has been carefully considered. On ancient woodlands, there is considerable investment in planting more trees along the whole of the route.

Haulage Permits and Trailer Registration Bill [HL]

Baroness Sugg Excerpts

Ping Pong (Hansard): House of Lords
Wednesday 4th July 2018 Lords Chamber

Moved by

[Baroness Sugg]

That this House do agree with the Commons in their Amendments 1 to 11.

1: Clause 2, page 2, line 40, at end insert—
“(d) for a number of permits determined by the Secretary of State to be available for grant in cases in which the Secretary of State considers it inappropriate for provision made under paragraph (c) to be applied, for example because of an emergency or other special need.”

--- Later in debate ---

11: Schedule, page 16, line 1, at end insert—
“5A In Article 91B(2) of the Road Traffic Offenders (Northern Ireland) Order 1996 (S.I. 1996/1320 (N.I. 10)) (offences in relation to which a financial penalty deposit requirement may be imposed), in sub-paragraph (a), after “vehicle” insert “or trailer”.”

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department for Transport (Baroness Sugg) (Con)]

My Lords, on Amendment 1, alongside the Bill, we are developing regulations relating to the issue of permits for hauliers, which will be laid before Parliament later in the year. These regulations will apply to all existing permit schemes as well as those we may need as part of our future relationship with the EU.

Amendment 1 would enable the regulations to specify that the Secretary of State would be able to reserve a limited number of permits. In the unlikely scenario that the UK has a limited number of permits to allocate to hauliers, it is sensible for the Secretary of State to retain a proportion of the available permits to deal with emergencies or other special needs. This would allow the Secretary of State to issue permits in cases where the criteria prescribed in regulations may not be suitable.

Amendment 2 gives the Secretary of State the flexibility to determine when applications must be made, ensuring permits are issued fairly and efficiently. The timing and consideration of applications is likely to differ depending on the country to which the haulier is travelling and the type of permits available. In some cases, where demand is low and permits are likely to be undersubscribed, applications will be accepted and considered throughout the year. In others, where demand is high and the number of permits is limited, applications will need to be made within a specified period for consideration against the relevant criteria to be made in a fair and objective manner. The amendment will enable the administration of applications to take into account the different requirements for different types of permit, which will give the haulage industry flexibility.

Amendments 3 and 4 relate to trailer safety. During consideration in this House, the noble Lord, Lord Tunnicliffe, tabled an amendment on producing a report on trailer safety and to make subsequent recommendations on an extension of compulsory registration and periodic testing to all trailers weighing over 750 kilograms.

Department officials held productive discussions last week with the light trailer and trailer equipment group, a specialist group that sits under the Society of Motor Manufacturers and Traders, and we will be consulting other stakeholders as this work continues. Trailer safety is a complex issue and the insight of stakeholders will be valuable alongside the use of extensive data as the department considers it.

After further consideration of these amendments, it was determined that there was scope for clarifying the new provisions. Accordingly, Amendments 3 and 4, made in the other place, remove the clauses and replace them with Amendments 5 and 6. Amendment 5 sets out the detail of the report. There are no substantive changes to the original amendment and policy intention. The changes we have made are technical in nature.

Noble Lords may note that this new amendment does not include Northern Ireland. The regulation of road traffic is devolved, and it would therefore be inappropriate for the trailer safety report to make specific policy recommendations to apply to Northern Ireland.

The drafting of the new amendment replicates the original clause, with reference to the number and causes of accidents involving trailers which caused injury or death to any person, but removes “comprehensive” as it is potentially ambiguous. It is important for this amendment to be made to the Bill to ensure that the duty placed on the Secretary of State is clear and can be fulfilled. To be clear, this by no means limits the data that may be included. After the report has been published, Amendment 6 would allow the Secretary of State to extend the existing system for periodic testing under the Road Traffic Act 1988 instead of the Bill. Although this is different from the original amendment, I stress that it in no way changes the intention. It will avoid any overlap with the existing regime and provide greater clarity to trailer users and flexibility in how any testing regime could be applied should a recommendation to extend periodic testing be made.

Amendment 7 relates to the powers we have taken under Amendment 6 to amend the Road Traffic Act 1988 and to make consequential or other changes to any Act. In the interests of parliamentary scrutiny and transparency, the first regulations made under the trailer safety testing regulations would be subject to the affirmative resolution procedure. Additionally, any other regulations made under Clause 23 which amend another Act must be subject to the affirmative procedure.

Amendment 8 confirms that Amendments 5 and 6 extend only to England, Wales and Scotland, for the same reasons referred to earlier. Amendment 9 removes the privilege amendment and is a procedural technicality.

I turn to Amendment 10. As I am sure noble Lords will be aware, road traffic offences are often dealt with through the issuing of a fixed penalty notice, which is a fine that must be paid within a set period. This is a pragmatic and effective alternative to prosecuting every road traffic offence in court, and fixed penalty notices will be used to enforce the haulage permits and trailer registration regimes. However, fixed penalty notices are not always effective against non-UK drivers as the notice can be ignored by those who will not return to the UK. The Road Traffic Offenders Act 1988 allows a constable or vehicle examiner to require a driver without a UK address to make an immediate payment or their vehicle may be immobilised. This is known as a financial penalty deposit and payment can be required for,

“an offence relating to a motor vehicle”.

The amendment will ensure that such deposits can also be required for trailer registration offences, making enforcement against UK and non-UK drivers equally effective.

Finally, Amendment 11 makes the same change as Amendment 10 but to equivalent legislation in Northern Ireland: the Road Traffic Offenders (Northern Ireland) Order 1996. This change is made with the agreement of the Northern Ireland Civil Service.

These amendments made in the other place bring clarity and enhance the original intent of the Bill. I beg to move.

--- Later in debate ---

[Lord Tunnicliffe (Lab)]

My Lords, I agree with much of what the noble Baroness, Lady Randerson, said, but also that we have gone as far as we can in those areas. On government Amendments 5, 6, 7 and, I think 8, my research assistant, Catherine Johnson, who drafted the original amendment passed in your Lordships’ House, assured me that the Minister has accepted your Lordships’ amendment but put it in her own words. Accordingly, we support the government amendments and thank the Minister for her efforts.

[Baroness Sugg]

My Lords, I thank all noble Lords for participating in this short debate and for their support for the amendments. As ever, the scrutiny and analysis of noble Lords has improved the Bill—in particular, on the important issue of trailer safety. The points raised by the noble Baroness, Lady Randerson, will be covered by the report, and we will work closely with the devolved Administrations. On the point made by the noble Lord, Lord Berkeley, Amendments 5 and 6 relate only to the trailer safety report; the rest of the Bill applies to Northern Ireland.

Throughout the passage of the Bill, the Government have been clear that our priority is to maintain and develop liberalised access for commercial haulage as part of our future relationship with the EU. It is in no one’s interest to put up barriers to trade, and we will seek to agree a reciprocal deal that allows hauliers to continue to travel freely between the UK and Europe. I agree with the view of the noble Baroness, Lady Randerson, on limited permits. We are confident that we will secure a liberalised approach and avoid the need for any new documents or processes—or, at a minimum, that all hauliers who seek a permit can get one. However, as a responsible Government, we are preparing for all outcomes through the Bill.

Motion agreed.

Govia Thameslink

Baroness Sugg Excerpts

Tuesday 3rd July 2018 Lords Chamber

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department for Transport (Baroness Sugg) (Con)]

My Lords, with the leave of the House I will repeat in the form of a Statement the Answer given by my honourable friend the Minister of State for Transport to an Urgent Question in the other place. The Statement is as follows:

“The Shadow Transport Secretary has asked about the current situation on GTR and about electrification. I will answer each in turn.

Performance on GTR has been unacceptable since the timetable change on 20 May. GTR is working to increase the predictability and reliability of journeys on its network, including reducing the number of on-the-day cancellations. On 15 July, it will implement an interim timetable. This will allow GTR to slowly build up services to the originally planned May timetable. We have announced that passengers affected by severe disruption on GTR will receive special compensation; an announcement will follow shortly.

We have also commissioned the independent Glaister review to make sure we learn lessons and so that this does not happen again. We have started a formal review of the franchise to establish whether GTR has met its contractual obligations in the planning and delivery of the May timetable. We will not hesitate to take tough action against it if it is found to have been negligent.

On electrification, the Government are clear that passengers expect high-quality rail services and we are committed to electrification where it delivers passenger benefits and value for money. We will also take advantage of state-of-the-art, new technology to improve rail journeys.

Over recent days, there has been speculation over the trans-Pennine route upgrade. I can clarify for colleagues that the trans-Pennine route upgrade will account for one-third of our anticipated expenditure for rail enhancements nationwide for the next spending period. It will be the biggest single investment we will make during this period, demonstrating our commitment to improving passenger journeys in the north.

The department is currently awaiting Network Rail’s final project plan. We have instructed it to prioritise those elements which bring the quickest passenger benefits. We will update the House on this in due course”.

[Lord Rosser (Lab)]

An industry readiness board was set up to review and direct “industry programmes for Thameslink 2018 operational readiness to minimise all risks associated with entry into service and ongoing sustained operations”. The Department for Transport sat on that board. Bearing in mind that the Secretary of State for Transport claims that he has no responsibility for the current new timetable shambles, why was the Department for Transport on that readiness board with its operational readiness remit?

Secondly, the Secretary of State has set up an inquiry into the causes of the current new timetable problems under the chair of the Office of Rail and Road. Some think that the ORR, which also sat on the readiness board, is one of the causes of the current problems through its cost-reduction demands on Network Rail and their impact on train planning costs and manpower. Who, then, will be considering the role of the ORR in respect of the current Thameslink timetable problems, since clearly that person cannot credibly be the chair of the ORR?

[Baroness Sugg]

My Lords, on the operational readiness board, the timetable was planned to introduce major changes and rail companies communicated these changes extensively to their passengers. However, the level of disruption caused by the introduction of the timetable was obviously not anticipated. We are working closely with GTR to put this right. One issue was that the operational readiness board did not anticipate the disruption, so the review will cover that.

On the review itself, Professor Stephen Glaister, who is chairing it, is from the independent rail regulator, the ORR. The inquiry will consider why the industry as a whole failed to produce and implement an effective timetable. There are various independent people on that review and they will consider the role of the ORR, train operating companies and, indeed, the Department for Transport.

[Baroness Randerson (LD)]

My Lords, I am interested in why the Government are suddenly so concerned about the appalling service from GTR when Southern, for instance, has been in a state of prolonged crisis for years and passengers have been left to suffer. Can the Minister explain the Government’s sudden change of heart?

Given the information from the operational readiness board, why did the Government not take the sensible step of deferring the new timetables? The Minister said in a Written Answer to me that the Secretary of State had not seen the minutes that warned of this impending chaos. Why was the Secretary of State not informed of the situation? When will the terms of compensation be precisely known?

Turning to electrification, the Government are very coy about the whole issue but we have rumbled the Secretary of State: when he skirts around a subject, it always means bad news. What is the Minister’s reaction to today’s ORR report, which warns that Network Rail has deferred £441 million of renewals this year, adding further to the backlog of work it needs to catch up on in CP6? Why do the Government want to phase out diesel cars while promoting diesel railways?

[Baroness Sugg]

My Lords, on GTR and Southern, obviously there has been awful disruption on Southern in recent years. The franchise was designed to deliver the Thameslink programme and the department has been keeping a close eye on that. However, with the introduction of the new timetable, services have further failed.

On the information provided to the Secretary of State and around the wider timetable changes, I fully acknowledge that the correct information was not given to the Secretary of State. That is why we have set up this inquiry: to ensure that we learn lessons for the future and investigate what went wrong.

On compensation, we are working hard with the train operating companies and Network Rail on the exact details, which will be announced in the coming days.

[Lord Pannick (CB)]

My Lords, on 4 June the Secretary of State told the House of Commons, in relation to GTR:

“Let me be absolutely clear: passengers on these franchises are facing totally unsatisfactory levels of service”.—[Official Report, 4/6/18; col. 1190.]


He added that,

“my immediate priority is to ensure that the industry improves train services to an acceptable level as quickly as possible”.—[Official Report, 4/6/18; col. 1194.]

As a commuter on the Thameslink route from Radlett to City Thameslink, may I tell the Minister that the service has not improved over the last month? Indeed, it is getting worse. Will the Minister please tell me and the House why the Secretary of State has not done what he promised to do a month ago?

[Baroness Sugg]

My Lords, I apologise to the noble Lord for the experience he has had on his commute, and to all passengers. Resolution of this issue remains an absolute priority. GTR is currently working towards implementing a temporary timetable on 15 July, with the aim of bringing stability and performance improvements for passengers. Like many passengers on Thameslink and Great Northern, I am frustrated that the service is not stabilising sooner. GTR has a new CEO, who starts on Monday. He has been given a clear mandate to improve stability, and we expect the timetable change to start delivering improved reliability and stability to the service.

[Lord Framlingham (Con)]

My Lords, given the chaos that is now reigning nationwide on the railway network, I think it is generally admitted that the time has surely come to scrap the ridiculous HS2 project and spend the billions of pounds saved on putting the rest of the network right.

[Baroness Sugg]

My Lords, my noble friend never fails to disappoint me by raising HS2 in rail questions. The Government remain firmly committed to HS2. One of the reasons for the introduction of the new timetable was to ensure that we have more capacity, since passenger demand has doubled in recent years. HS2 will help deliver that much-needed capacity.

[Lord Clark of Windermere (Lab)]

My Lords, yesterday the Secretary of State tried to reassure the people of the north that the trans-Pennine electrification schemes would go ahead. Does that apply to all the electrification schemes in the north, such as the Lakes Line, which was refused recently? On the subject of the Lakes Line, will the Government look seriously at the way in which Northern Rail stopped running trains on a whole railway line, with no trains at all for four weeks, and is now only running half the trains? The Government seem to be endorsing this as a great success.

[Baroness Sugg]

My Lords, I certainly would not call that a great success. I am pleased that it started the restoration of the service yesterday, albeit a lesser service, helped by replacement buses. Trans-Pennine is our biggest planned investment project on the existing railway and is due to start next spring. It will be a rolling programme of enhancements, including both major civil engineering and electrification. On the Lakes Line in particular, we want to deliver additional direct services between Windermere and Manchester. These will first be delivered using a bi-mode train, adapted from a former electric-only train. Subject to the business case, there will also be brand new trains on the route with more seats and better on-board facilities. I know that Northern is exploring the possibility of introducing an alternatively fuelled train on the route.

[Lord Laming (CB)]

My Lords, the House will appreciate the concern that the Minister has for those of us who travel on Govia Thameslink Railway. It introduced a novel piece of advice for those of us trying to get to London this morning: that we should get on a train going north, in the hope that we stood a better chance of getting on a train going south further up the line. At the weekend, we were excited at the news that Govia might lose the franchise. Will the Minister assure the House that that is a serious possibility? Seven weeks later, the trains are still in a dreadful mess and there is no communication with passengers, and there seems to be no concern from the management.

[Baroness Sugg]

My Lords, I have heard the terrible first-hand experiences of family and friends, and many Members of this House. I entirely agree that GTR needs to get much better in the provision of information, so that passengers could at least attempt to plan their commute. On the hard review, announced by the Secretary of State, the department has begun an external audit of GTR by professionals with decades of experience in the rail industry. This will be a thorough examination of the performance and management of the franchise. The initial audit will take a number of weeks and will provide the department with evidence on which to base our next steps. Once complete, the audit could lead to the introduction of a remedial plan, a significant fine for GTR or, as a last resort—and if it best serves the interests of the passengers—the removal of the franchise from the operator.

Railways: Wales

Baroness Sugg Excerpts

Monday 2nd July 2018 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Bloomfield of Hinton Waldrist]

To ask Her Majesty’s Government what steps they are taking with the Welsh Government to improve railway connectivity within Wales.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department for Transport (Baroness Sugg) (Con)]

My Lords, the Department for Transport and the Welsh Government are both committed to improving rail connectivity within Wales. We have worked collaboratively to deliver on our commitment to devolve powers to award the Wales and Borders rail passenger franchise. The new operator announced by Welsh Government Ministers on 4 June will improve rail travel for the benefit of passengers across Wales in the coming years.

[Baroness Bloomfield of Hinton Waldrist (Con)]

I thank my noble friend the Minister for her response. Improving connectivity in west Wales is key to supporting economic growth in a part of Wales that can often seem remote. One of the aims of the Government is to spread prosperity across the whole of the UK. Does my noble friend therefore agree that one option to achieve this is to build a west Wales parkway station to the north of Swansea which could bring west Wales at least half an hour closer to Cardiff?

[Baroness Sugg]

My Lords, we are working with stakeholders to develop proposals for potential station improvements in and around Swansea, including looking at the case for additional stations. The department is looking carefully at the possibility of a west Wales parkway station which, as my noble friend has said, could help to improve connectivity and journey times in west Wales. However, the suggested sites are not currently served by regular passenger trains, and diverting them for this purpose could remove or reduce the number of direct trains from Neath and the main station at Swansea, so of course the proposals need to be considered carefully.

[Lord Anderson of Swansea (Lab)]

My Lords, related to connectivity is rail electrification. The Government have abandoned a promise long made to electrify the line between Cardiff and Swansea, and last week we had the Government scuppering the proposal for a tidal barrage in Swansea. Where is the Secretary of State who is meant to defend Wales in the Cabinet? Has the Minister no good news for us?

[Baroness Sugg]

My Lords, the Secretary of State for Wales does an excellent job of defending the people of Wales, and I met with him just last week to discuss transport issues in Wales. We remain committed to delivering the right outcomes for rail transport in Wales. The introduction of bimodal intercity express trains means that we no longer need to electrify the Great Western route between Cardiff and Swansea. We are also improving journeys for passengers in south Wales sooner rather than later without the need to carry out disruptive electrification works.

[Lord Bradshaw (LD)]

My Lords, the franchise for Wales includes the electrification of the core valley lines at a cost which is far below that of conventional electrification schemes being carried out elsewhere. Meanwhile, Alstom and Siemens are about to launch new systems at much lower cost. Will the Government consider the effect of these cheaper schemes on the case for electrifying the Midland main line and possibly elsewhere as well?

[Baroness Sugg]

My Lords, we are committed to electrification where it delivers passenger benefits, but we must also ensure that it is good value for money. Where possible, we will also take advantage of new technologies to improve journeys without carrying out disruptive electrification works. I have not seen the details of the system mentioned by the noble Lord but we continually assess the investment decisions in our programme of railway upgrades to deliver passenger benefits in the best way possible so as to give passengers and taxpayers maximum value for money.

[Lord Berkeley (Lab)]

My Lords, while accepting that the Government have made progress in the devolution of railway issues, is it not time for much greater devolution of the infrastructure and train operation to the Welsh Government? The noble Baroness has talked about bimodal trains. The only reason we have those trains is that Network Rail has failed to electrify the track. Bimodal trains are slower, more expensive and more polluting. Surely the answer is to give the Welsh Government total control without the micromanagement that seems to come from her department.

[Baroness Sugg]

My Lords, the Government made a commitment to devolve powers for the Wales and Borders franchise following recommendations from the Commission on Devolution in Wales, which I am very pleased that we have delivered. It is a good example of effective co-operation between the Welsh Government and the UK Government. On the devolution of infrastructure funding, we do not believe that it is desirable generally to reopen discussion on the Silk recommendations, around which there was no consensus. We do not intend therefore to revisit the question of devolving Network Rail funding, given the discussions on the issue during the St David’s Day process. Of course, we continue to work closely with the Welsh Government on the specification and funding of Network Rail’s operations.

[Lord Morris of Aberavon (Lab)]

My Lords, given that all the Brexit negotiations were done directly between Ministers in Cardiff and the Government in Westminster, is not the office of Secretary of State now pointless?

--- Later in debate ---

[Baroness Sugg]

I am afraid that I do not agree with the noble and learned Lord. As I said, the Secretary of State for Wales does an excellent job of representing the interests of the people of Wales at the Cabinet table.

[Lord Roberts of Llandudno (LD)]

My Lords, if we go down the Brexit road, what will happen to the north Wales line that goes to Holyhead and the south Wales line that crosses south Wales? Will there be any new arrangement? The Irish Sea will have Ireland on one side, which will of course be in the European Union, and we in Wales will be on the other, and will be out. What arrangements are the Government making to make sure that the whole process goes smoothly?

[Baroness Sugg]

I assure noble Lords that the Government are working round the clock to ensure that the process of Brexit goes smoothly. Of course, we will absolutely take the impact on Wales into consideration, as we will for the rest of the United Kingdom.

[Lord Hain (Lab)]

My Lords, are the Government really happy that the franchise for Welsh railways has been handed to a consortium that includes Govia, which is responsible for an absolute shambles on Southern Rail and from which the Government are reputedly considering withdrawing the franchise? Is that sensible?

[Baroness Sugg]

My Lords, as I said, we have devolved the decision on the franchise to the Welsh Government. The new franchise will see transformation across the Welsh railway network, including substantial frequency improvements on new routes and the doubling of service frequencies on many routes. The Welsh Government have said that the new franchise will see a £5 billion investment to fund significant improvements. The Government committed to devolve the award of the franchise to the Welsh Government; they have made that decision.

[Lord Shutt of Greetland (LD)]

My Lords, is it possible for the Minister to use “electrification” without preceding it with “disruptive”?

[Baroness Sugg]

It is possible. As I said, we will use electrification where it delivers the benefits that passengers need more quickly.

[Baroness Jones of Moulsecoomb (GP)]

My Lords, when the Government look at value for money, do they look at value for money in terms of climate change? Clearing up from climate change, whether in Wales or anywhere else, is extremely expensive. That really ought to come into the calculation.

[Baroness Sugg]

My Lords, of course we take the impact on the environment into account. Once the transformation of Great Western is complete, the new intercity express trains will spend most of their journeys between London and Swansea in electric mode, with near-zero emissions. In diesel mode, the new trains will meet the highest rolling stock emissions standards. The Rail Minister has challenged the rail industry to phase out diesel-only trains by 2040 as part of a vision to decarbonise the railway.

Road Maintenance

Baroness Sugg Excerpts

Tuesday 19th June 2018 Lords Chamber

[Lord Berkeley]

To ask Her Majesty’s Government what assessment they have made of the funding they provide to Highways England and local authorities to ensure that roads are maintained in a safe condition.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department for Transport (Baroness Sugg) (Con)]

My Lords, over £12 billion has been provided to Highways England and local authorities to maintain and renew the road network in England outside London in the six years up to 2020-21. This is a significant increase on previous years. It is of course for each authority to assess which of its roads need repair, based on local knowledge and circumstances, but the Government believe that the sums allocated are ensuring that roads are maintained safely.

[Lord Berkeley (Lab)]

I am grateful to the Minister for that reply, but many organisations will think that even that increase is nothing like enough. The RAC reckons that potholes cost drivers £100 million a year in damage to their cars. Cycling UK notes that in 2016, 64 cyclists were killed or seriously injured because of potholes. I nearly joined that rank when I fell into a pothole, which was under water, outside your Lordships’ House. The repair consisted of a white line painted round the pothole—and it is still there, three months later. On 13 June the Government issued a British road safety statement, which included measures to improve the safety and reduce the deaths of vulnerable road users such as cyclists, pedestrians and motorcyclists. Will the Government put that into practice, with more commitment? One idea would be to put an extra 3p per litre on the price of petrol, ring-fenced for potholes on local roads.

[Baroness Sugg]

My Lords, we must certainly do all we can to reduce deaths and injuries on our roads. According to Cycling UK, over half of people say that they would cycle more if they were not so worried about the state of our roads. Potholes and poorly maintained roads are a menace for all road users—including noble Lords—which is why we are taking action to improve the condition of the local road network. In particular, the Department for Transport has allocated £296 million to the Pothole Action Fund, on top of existing funding. Noble Lords will know that fuel duty is most definitely a matter for the Chancellor, but I will certainly pass on the noble Lord’s suggestion.

[Lord Lexden (Con)]

Potholes or not, how can pedestrians on the pavements alongside these roads maintain themselves in a safe condition when cyclists refuse to equip their machine with a bell and curse those, like me, who politely ask them to mend their ways? Could they possibly be in league with those who will stop at absolutely nothing to reduce the size of this House?

[Baroness Sugg]

My Lords, we absolutely want to improve the safety of cyclists and all other road users, including pedestrians. Obviously, we are in favour of cycling. It improves people’s health, cuts congestion and is good for the environment. Among employers, it has been associated with fewer sick days and improved productivity. We are keen to support cyclists, as I said. Last year, we published our cycling and walking investment strategy, which included £1.2 billion of funding to encourage more people to travel by foot or by bike—but I will certainly see whether there is anything we can do to ensure that cyclists put a bell on their bicycle.

[Baroness Randerson (LD)]

My Lords, Local Government Association analysis shows that, over a five-year period, the Government plan to spend £1.1 million per mile on the strategic road network but to provide local authorities with just £21,000 per mile for local roads. Of course, local roads make up 98% of the road network and bear the brunt of congestion, which is made worse by pothole problems and the lack of money to invest in modern road networks. There is a serious knock-on effect on emissions. Does the Minister accept that the Government need to redress the balance on funding?

[Baroness Sugg]

My Lords, local road maintenance funding is rising, but I accept that we need to readdress the balance. It is right to concentrate spending on where it is needed most. While the strategic road network includes only 2% of all roads by length, it carries one-third of traffic. However, we know that other important roads have long gone underfunded, and that is why we are introducing a major road network from 2020 and will provide a share of the national roads fund to invest in bypasses, road widening and other road improvements.

[Lord Sugar (CB)]

My Lords, will the Minister comment on the fact that utility companies seem to dig up our roads, and three months later another utility company digs the same hole? Would it not be a good idea to get some form of licensing, with the authorities giving permission for these holes to be dug, and for the utility companies to contact other utility companies to make sure that there is no common ground there?

[Baroness Sugg]

I certainly agree with the noble Lord on that. We have introduced the lane rental scheme, which has encouraged utilities to work together at weekends and in the evening to reduce congestion and the inevitable annoyance to motorists. We saw disruption to drivers cut by half in Kent and London, where we ran a pilot, and we are looking to extend that across the country. On licences and permits, we absolutely encourage local authorities to use permit schemes for works on the roads, which will help with planning. They will also ensure that utilities work together. Around 65% of local authorities use permit schemes now, and we encourage others to join.

[Lord Tunnicliffe (Lab)]

My Lords, will the Minister tell us whether Her Majesty’s Government believe in value for money? If the answer is yes, will she explain how patch and mend delivers value for money on a whole-life basis? If the answer is no, does she accept that Her Majesty’s Government are storing up a massive bill as roads self-destruct under the present policy?

[Baroness Sugg]

My Lords, I can certainly confirm that this Government believe in value for money. We are spending a record £23 billion on the enhancement, renewal and maintenance of our roads up and down the country, and will continue to invest in that to provide better journeys for motorists and to cut congestion. We have seen improvements and that our investment is making a difference. A, B and C roads combined have seen a gradual improvement, with fewer roads being considered for maintenance.

[Lord Lang of Monkton (Con)]

My Lords, in her reply to my noble friend Lord Lexden, the Minister seemed to imply that she could do nothing about bells on bicycles. If the law does not require the fitting of bells on bicycles, does the Minister agree that it would be a very good idea, and will she consider whether the law should be amended?

--- Later in debate ---

[Baroness Sugg]

My Lords, as I said, we have introduced cycling and walking investment strategies. We are also looking at cycling safety and I will certainly feed in that suggestion.

[Baroness Hayman (CB)]

With respect to bells on bicycles, perhaps the Minister would like to go back to 1998, because I seem to remember that, when I was a very junior Minister in charge of road safety, I found myself on the front page of every tabloid newspaper for saying, when answering a question, that all new bicycles should have a bell.

[Baroness Sugg]

My Lords, I do all I can to avoid being on the front page of tabloid newspapers, which is why I am not committing to it now—but, as I say, I will certainly take that back.

Automated and Electric Vehicles Bill

Baroness Sugg Excerpts

3rd reading (Hansard): House of Lords
Wednesday 13th June 2018 Lords Chamber

Moved by

[Baroness Sugg]

1: Clause 12, page 7, line 22, leave out from “making” to “relevant” in line 23 and insert “section 11(1)(a) regulations in relation to the whole or part of a”

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department for Transport (Baroness Sugg) (Con)]

My Lords, this group of amendments follows the debate on Report considering the role of metro mayors in enabling the installation of charging infrastructure. In line with commitments I made on Report, I have tabled government amendments to provide clarity around this clause. I have removed reference to the “key route network” so that metro mayors can take a strategic view of large fuel retailers across their areas. As I mentioned on Report, this is limited to “large fuel retailers” and not “service area operators”, as these areas, which are situated primarily on motorways, are best dealt with on a national level.

I have made it clear that regulations can be proposed only once “large fuel retailers” has been defined. In any instance where the Secretary of State of State chooses not to introduce regulations, he will be required to inform the applicant mayor of the reasoning and there will be a requirement to ensure that relevant local authorities are consulted. I beg to move.

[Baroness Randerson (LD)]

I thank the Minister for that explanation. For the information of those listening, the noble Baroness, Lady Worthington, and I attempted to lay an amendment to clarify the issue of service areas, or car parks as they might be called. However, according to the rules of the House that was not possible at Third Reading, so there is no amendment from us. But there is still a question in my mind: how do the Government envisage the strategy and policy, going forward? As I mentioned the last time we discussed this, if you go to a service area on a motorway you get your electric charging near the café—very often hundreds of feet from the fuel station—but that does not appear to be what is in the Government’s mind in relation to other service areas. I would like to know what the Government’s strategy is on this. I am sorry to be raising such a detail at Third Reading but we really only talked about this on Report. I still do not have a real understanding of why the Government are not considering having regulations in relation to the car parks associated with service areas, rather than just the fuel stations.

--- Later in debate ---

[Baroness Sugg]

My Lords, I thank noble Lords for their contributions on this last group in the Bill. On the location of charging points within service areas, I take the point made by the noble Baroness, Lady Randerson, and the location of the charge points will be consulted on for the regulations.

On car parks and destination charging in general, I entirely agree that destinations such as car parks should install charging infrastructure to support the overall transition to electric vehicles. While, in relation to the provision of public charge points, the Bill focused on enabling long-term strategic journeys, following the debate on Report, my noble friends and I are well aware of noble Lords’ strength of feeling about the provision of charge points in private car parks, and we have followed this up with the department. I thank the noble Baroness, Lady Worthington, for her persistence on this matter, and I am today able to commit to taking forward more action in this area. We will engage further with the private car parking industry to encourage best practice and will consider whether voluntary commitments can be made by the main private car park operators. We will also work with the Institution of Civil Engineers with a view to ensuring that industry guidance on the design and maintenance of car parks includes information and advice on charging provision. We will consider addressing requirements for charging infrastructure for car parks through the Private Member’s Bill on a parking code of practice, which has cross-party support.

I take this opportunity to update noble Lords on an issue which has come up at various stages of the Bill: the provision of electric charge points in our car park. I spoke to the parliamentary estate office this morning, and I am pleased to say that despite there being many other pressures on its time, we are making good progress on this. The feasibility study has produced some positive results and we are expecting the installation of some charge points in Royal Court soon.

This Bill provides a stepping stone in the development and deployment of automated vehicles on UK roads, and for zero-emissions vehicles, both electric battery and hydrogen refuelling, it will address access, standards and connection for public charging or refuelling points. It will address some of the issues of range anxiety, ensure adequate information for users and ensure that future charge points are smart. I acknowledge noble Lords’ feelings on the narrowness of the Bill, and I entirely agree that the Government must look at the bigger picture. The Bill is just one part of the work the Government are doing to ensure that we have a successful transition to zero-emissions vehicles. The upcoming strategy on electric vehicles will set out in more detail a suite of other measures which will enable us to reach a zero-emissions future.

I also take this opportunity to thank the Bill team, who have worked on this Bill for many months, and my noble friends Lord Lucas and Lord Borwick, the noble Lord, Lord Tunnicliffe, the noble and gallant Lord, Lord Craig, the noble Baronesses, Lady Randerson and Lady Worthington, and all other noble Lords who have helped to ensure rigorous scrutiny throughout the passage of the Bill. The constructive engagement, conversations and debates have led to significant improvements.

--- Later in debate ---

[Lord Craig of Radley (CB)]

My Lords, before the Minister sits down, we have concentrated very much on charging points, but the Bill was amended on Report to cover hydrogen refuelling points. They may not need exactly the same thing, so I would like an assurance that the way they are treated will take account purely of what they are for rather than making the broad assumption that they are charging points and therefore electric only.

[Baroness Sugg]

I am happy to confirm that. Many amendments changed the Bill to ensure that we were dealing with hydrogen refuelling points as well. That was always the intent of the Bill but I agree that that was not clear enough, which is why we moved government amendments following interventions by the noble Baroness, Lady Randerson, and others on that issue. The technology around hydrogen is not yet as advanced as it is around electric battery but we will be addressing our hydrogen strategy in the upcoming Road to Zero document.

Amendment 1 agreed.

Moved by

[Baroness Sugg]

2: Clause 12, page 7, line 26, leave out “and 2” and insert “to 3”

--- Later in debate ---

Moved by

[Baroness Sugg]

12: Clause 18, page 11, line 16, at end insert—
“(8) If a draft of a statutory instrument containing relevant section 11(1) regulations would, apart from this subsection, be treated for the purposes of the standing orders of either House of Parliament as a hybrid instrument, it is to proceed in that House as if it were not such an instrument.(9) In subsection (8) “relevant section 11(1) regulations” means regulations under section 11(1) that are made pursuant to section 12 (duty to consider making regulations on request by elected mayor).”

Heathrow Airport

Baroness Sugg Excerpts

Thursday 7th June 2018 Lords Chamber

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department for Transport (Baroness Sugg) (Con)]

My Lords, with the leave of the House I will repeat in the form of a Statement the Answer given by my honourable friend the Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Transport to an Urgent Question in the other place. The Statement is as follows:

“First, let me thank the right honourable Member for raising this issue. As the Secretary of State set out in his Oral Statement on Tuesday, we recognise the strong feelings on this matter from some Members, and their constituents, across the House. I am aware of the various representations that have been made in the Chamber that the Government would be liable for Heathrow’s costs should they decide to withdraw support from the scheme.

These representations appear to stem from a clause in a non-legally binding agreement between Heathrow and the DfT that has been taken out of context. This non-issue was addressed by the Secretary of State for Transport on Tuesday, and by the Prime Minister yesterday. So let me repeat in the clearest possible fashion: there is no liability here. The Government have not entered into any agreement that gives Heathrow the right to recover its losses in the event of the scheme not proceeding, and nor would they accept any liability for any of the costs that HAL has incurred or will incur in the future.

For the avoidance of any doubt, please allow me to quote directly from the document in question. It says that,

‘this Statement of Principles does not give either HAL or the Secretary of State any right to a claim for damages, losses, liabilities, costs and/or expenses or other relief howsoever arising if, for whatever reason, HAL’s Scheme does not proceed’.

We are absolutely clear of our responsibilities to Parliament when a liability, or indeed a contingent liability, is incurred.

Yesterday, the Government laid before Parliament a Written Ministerial Statement and departmental minute that set out a contingent liability for statutory blight, which will start if the proposed airports NPS is designated. The liability is contingent because the Government have rightly protected the taxpayer by entering into a binding agreement with Heathrow Airport Ltd, whereby the airport assumes the financial liability for successful blight claims if the scheme proceeds. With regard to wider scheme costs, the answer is simple. We have not notified Parliament of any liability because there is no liability”.

--- Later in debate ---

[Baroness Sugg]

My Lords, the statement of principles was a snapshot in time. It was published publicly in October 2016 and is not legally binding. As I said, the document will expire if the scheme proceeds and the NPS is designated. The Government will of course define their relationship with Heathrow in a new agreement if the scheme proceeds. On surface access, Heathrow Airport Ltd has pledged to meet the costs of any surface access proposals that are essential to deliver airport expansion. Many of the schemes which the noble Lord mentioned—HS2, Crossrail and the extension to the Piccadilly line—are already committed. For any other scheme currently under consideration, such as western and southern rail access, there will be an appropriate contribution from the developer.

[Baroness Kramer (LD)]

My Lords, when the PPP companies Metronet and Tube Lines collapsed, the Government found themselves having to step up with millions to make up the damage to London Transport because it was essential. It will be exactly the same with Heathrow if there is any failure in the successful completion of this project, and the Government should be honest about that. From doing years of infrastructure funding, I can say that there is no way that any responsible shareholder or lender would put money into a project with so many potential liabilities—for transport, environment, community impact and damage to other airports—without some form of implied government backstop. Will the Government please come clean and provide their estimate of the liabilities that the taxpayer will be exposed to before the vote in the Commons?

[Baroness Sugg]

My Lords, there is of course a risk that in certain circumstances Heathrow Airport Ltd could pause or cease the development of the scheme. However, the regulator will hold Heathrow to account on the delivery of the scheme through its regulatory licence. I say again that the Government are clear that airport expansion should be financed solely by the private sector and that Heathrow Airport Ltd has no claim to damages or liabilities.

[Lord Trefgarne (Con)]

My Lords, may I raise a matter which I touched upon briefly yesterday? Can my noble friend confirm that, when and if this new runway comes into service, there will unfortunately have to be the end of fixed-wing aviation, at least, at RAF Northolt? Has that been taken into account?

[Baroness Sugg]

My Lords, we are not aware of that impact at Northolt at this stage. It is an airspace issue and there is a big project on airspace modernisation, which we are taking forward over the next couple of years. That will need to be carefully considered, but I am fully aware of the historical importance of Northolt and, as I said, we are not aware of that impact at this stage.

[Lord Trefgarne]

My Lords, with your Lordships’ permission, this is a very technical matter. If my noble friend were able to write to me, I would be grateful.

[Baroness Sugg]

As I said, we are in the early stages of the airspace modernisation, but I will certainly write to my noble friend to explain in what detail I can.

[Baroness McIntosh of Pickering (Con)]

Will my noble friend put my mind at rest? I should perhaps say in passing that I was Conservative transport spokesman in the European Parliament for nine years. There is concern across the north of England that a number of direct international flights, which have built up very successfully from regional airports such as Leeds Bradford Airport, Doncaster Sheffield Airport, and perhaps East Midlands Airport as well, will lose those direct connections as part of the deal that has been negotiated with the expansion of Heathrow Airport. That would be a very regrettable step, and I hope that my noble friend will take this opportunity to put my mind at rest. Will we continue to enjoy a raft of choices for international flights, directly from regional airports across the north of England, to make sure that we are not adding to congestion at London Heathrow?

[Baroness Sugg]

My Lords, I am happy to confirm to my noble friend that we absolutely continue to support regional airports. With an expanded Heathrow, we will still see regional airports growing and benefiting from long-haul flights, such as the recent introduction of the flight from Manchester to China, which has been so successful.

[Baroness Kramer]

My Lords, can I suggest that the Minister may have missed the point? In order to pay back its financing and its shareholders, Heathrow will need to fill those runways as rapidly as possible. The obvious way to do that—I am sure this is deeply embedded in Heathrow’s plans—is to suck in traffic from other airports across the UK, not just in London and the south-east but elsewhere. Will she confirm that that is indeed part of the business plan and give assurances otherwise to the various regional airports, because it will require government action to make sure that that does not happen?

[Baroness Sugg]

My Lords, there is a huge amount of pent-up demand at Heathrow and I imagine that those flights will be some of the first coming in when the new runway is built, which Heathrow expects to be in around 2026. I have spent much time in many regional airports and they have all been welcoming of the expansion of Heathrow, particularly on the domestic connectivity point where we expect to see up to 15% of slots reserved for domestic flights.

[Lord Tunnicliffe]

My Lords, if the Minister will forgive me for extending my question, she ran through a number of schemes which she said were committed. Who is committed to paying for these claims and under what sort of process are they committed?

[Baroness Sugg]

The schemes which I mentioned—those that are already in progress on HS2, Crossrail and the Piccadilly extension line—are already committed and agreed on. The other two to which I referred for southern rail and western rail are still in development.

[Lord Tunnicliffe]

But who is paying for the committed schemes?

[Baroness Sugg]

Those schemes have already been currently funded, and I will have to write to the noble Lord with exact details.

[Baroness McIntosh of Pickering]

My Lords, in the event that I perhaps did not express my question as well as I might, it is particularly the point-to-point regional flights between airports such as Leeds Bradford through Amsterdam, and onward to international connections, that I have in mind. Can my noble friend give me a categorical assurance that these will not be poached by Heathrow?

[Baroness Sugg]

I am afraid that I cannot predict exactly what is to happen with future flights. All I can do is to reiterate our support for regional airports. Another announcement we made yesterday was on making best use of existing capacity, which will allow regional airports to grow as long as they get permission from the local authority area. As I said, regional airports are supportive of Heathrow expansion and, even with that expansion, we expect them to continue to grow.

[Lord West of Spithead (Lab)]

My Lords, notwith- standing all the complexities and costs, this thing has been studied to death. Does the Minister not agree that it is about time that we jolly well got on and did it, because it is so important for UK aviation and UK industry?

[Baroness Sugg]

I could not agree more with the noble Lord. We are in desperate need of expanded capacity in this country if we are to continue to succeed as a nation. I would very much like it if we could proceed.

[Baroness Kramer]

My Lords, could I just push the Minister on the funding of surface transport?

[Baroness Kramer]

There are still two minutes to go— unless someone else would like to ask a question. As the Minister will know, the Heathrow Southern Railway scheme requires the diversion of trains, typically going to Windsor, to the airport. The plans actually consume capacity that has been designed to meet not only the needs of the current Heathrow Airport but the growing demands of the local community. While the local community is going to be displaced, who is going to provide that replacement transport? There are both capacity issues and huge cost issues associated with that, but the airport could very easily claim that they are not directly related to bringing passengers to the airport.

[Baroness Sugg]

My Lords, Heathrow Airport Ltd has pledged to meet the costs of any surface access proposals that are essential to deliver airport expansion. Any work that will benefit the wider transport system, not just the airport, may require some taxpayer contribution, but proposals will need to represent value for money. As those proposals develop, those agreements will be made.

Airports National Policy Statement

Baroness Sugg Excerpts

Wednesday 6th June 2018 Lords Chamber

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department for Transport (Baroness Sugg) (Con)]

My Lords, with the leave the House, I shall now repeat a Statement made yesterday by my right honourable friend the Secretary of State for Transport in the other place. The Statement is as follows:

“I would like to make a Statement about the proposed expansion of Heathrow Airport. This Government have a clear vision—to build a Britain that is fit for the future: a Britain with a prosperous jobs market and an economy that works for everyone. That is why I come to this House to mark an historic moment. Today I am laying before Parliament our final proposal for an Airports National Policy Statement, which signals our commitment to securing global connectivity, creating tens of thousands of local jobs and apprenticeships, and boosting our economy for future generations by expanding Heathrow Airport. It is an example of how this Government are taking forward their industrial strategy.

Mr Speaker, you know that taking such a decision is never easy. This issue has been debated for half a century. My department has met with local residents and fully understands their strength of feeling, but this is a decision taken in the national interest and based on detailed evidence. In 2015, the independent Airports Commission concluded that a new north-west runway at Heathrow was the best scheme to deliver additional capacity and in October 2016 we agreed. We ran two national consultations during 2017 and received more than 80,000 responses. All the points raised have been carefully considered, and today we are publishing the Government’s response.

To ensure fairness and transparency, we appointed an independent consultation adviser, the former Court of Appeal judge Sir Jeremy Sullivan. Our draft NPS was scrutinised by the Transport Committee and I would very much like to thank the chair of the committee and her team on that committee for all the work they did and the thoroughness of that work. I am very pleased that they, like me and my colleagues in government, accepted the case for expansion and concluded that we are right to pursue development through an additional runway at Heathrow. We welcome and have acted upon 24 out of 25 of their recommendations. Our response to the committee is also being published today.

This country has one of the largest aviation sectors in the world, contributing £22 billion to our GDP, supporting half a million jobs, servicing 285 million passengers and transporting 2.6 million tonnes of freight last year. The time for action is now. Heathrow is already full and the evidence shows the remaining London airports will not be far behind. Despite being the busiest two-runway airport in the world, Heathrow’s capacity constraints mean it is falling behind its global competitors, impacting the UK’s economy and global trading opportunities.

Expansion at Heathrow will bring real benefits across the country, including a boost of up to £74 billion to passengers and the wider economy, providing better connections to growing world markets, and increasing flights to more long-haul destinations. Heathrow is a nationally significant freight hub, carrying more freight by value than all other UK airports combined. A third runway would enable it nearly to double its current freight capacity.

In addition—and this is crucial—this project has benefits that reach far beyond London. We expect and intend up to 15% of slots from a new runway to facilitate domestic connections across the United Kingdom, spreading the benefits of expansion to our great nations and regions. As well as new routes, I expect there to be increased competition on existing routes, giving greater choice to passengers. I say clearly that regional connectivity is a key reason for the decision that we have taken.

I recognise the strong convictions that many Members of this House and their constituents have on this issue, and the impacts on those living in the local area. It is for this reason that we have included strong mitigations in the NPS to limit such impacts. Communities will be supported by up to £2.6 billion towards compensation, noise insulation and improvements to public amenities— 10 times bigger than under the 2009 third runway proposal. This package is comparable with some of the most generous in the world and includes £700 million for noise insulation for homes and £40 million to insulate schools and community buildings. The airport has offered 125% of the full market value for homes in the compulsory and voluntary purchase zones, plus stamp duty, moving costs and legal fees, as well as a legally binding noise envelope and more predictable periods of respite.

For the first time ever, we expect a six-and-a-half-hour ban on scheduled night flights. But my ambitions do not stop there. If this House agrees, the NPS is designated and the scheme progresses, I shall encourage Heathrow and airlines to work with local communities to propose longer periods of respite during a further consultation on night flight restrictions.

We will grant development consent only if we are satisfied that a new runway would not have an impact on the UK’s compliance with air quality obligations. Advances in technology also mean that new planes are cleaner, greener and quieter than those they replace. Earlier this year, a community engagement board was established and appointed Rachel Cerfontyne as its independent chair. It will focus on building relations between Heathrow and its communities, considering the design of the community compensation fund—which could be worth up to £50 million a year—and holding the airport to account when it comes to delivering on its commitments today and into the future.

There has been much debate about the cost of this scheme. Our position on this could not be clearer: expansion will be privately financed. Again crucially, expansion must also remain affordable to consumers. We took a firm step when I asked the industry regulator, the Civil Aviation Authority, to ensure that the scheme remains affordable while meeting the needs of current and future passengers. This process has already borne fruit, with the identification of potential savings of up to £2.5 billion. I am confident that the process can and should continue, that further cost savings can be identified and that the design of expansion can continue to evolve to better reflect the needs of consumers. That is why I have recommissioned the Civil Aviation Authority to continue to work with industry to deliver the ambition I set out in 2016 to keep landing charges at or close to current levels. This will include gateway reviews, independent scrutiny and benchmarking of proposals, which I know are of paramount importance to British Airways, Virgin and the wider airline community.

I want now to talk about scheme delivery and ownership. The north-west runway scheme put forward by Heathrow was selected by the Government following a rigorous process. Since then, Heathrow has continued to make strong progress, having already consulted on its scheme design and airspace principles earlier this year. Some stakeholders have suggested that we should look again at who delivers expansion. While I will always retain an open mind, my current assessment is that caution is needed at this stage. Heathrow is an operational airport under a single management, and I am clear that it is currently the only credible promoter who could deliver this transformational scheme in its entirety.

I welcome the Civil Aviation Authority’s April consultation, which expects Heathrow to engage in good faith with third parties to ensure expansion is delivered in a way which benefits the consumer. However, this needs to be balanced against the need for timely delivery, and that is why my department will work closely with Heathrow to enable delivery of the new runway by the current target date of 2026.

Heathrow is already Britain’s best-connected airport by road and rail, and this will be further strengthened by future improvements to the Piccadilly line, new links to Heathrow through Crossrail, connections to HS2 via an interchange at Old Oak Common and plans for western and southern rail access to the airport. On 24 May, I met the industry and financial backers who can potentially come forward with plans to deliver the new southern rail access to the airport.

Even with today’s announcement, a new operational runway at Heathrow is still a number of years away. The Airports Commission recommended that there would also be a need for other airports to make more intensive use of their existing infrastructure and we consulted on this in the aviation strategy call for evidence last year. So I can confirm today that, apart from Heathrow, the Government are supportive of other airports making best use of their existing runways. However, we recognise that the development of airports can have negative as well as positive local impacts, including on noise levels. We therefore consider that any proposals should be judged on their individual merits by the appropriate planning authority, taking careful account of all relevant considerations, particularly economic and environmental impacts.

Furthermore, in April we set out our next steps, which will see us work closely with industry, business, consumer and environmental groups to develop an aviation strategy that sets out the long-term policy direction for aviation to 2050 and beyond, while addressing the changing needs and expectations of passengers. It will set out a framework for future sustainable growth across the UK, how we plan to modernise our congested airspace and use innovative technology to deliver cleaner, quieter, quicker journeys for the benefit of passengers and communities. Airspace modernisation has to be taken forward irrespective of the decision on the proposed new runway, and to do so we expect multiple airports across the south of England to bring forward consultations on their own proposals on how to manage the airspace around them.

Returning to Heathrow, the planning system involves two separate processes: one to set the policy effectively outlining planning consent, which is our NPS; and then, if this House votes in favour of it and it is then designated, a second process for securing the detailed development consent that the airport will require. The next step would therefore be for Heathrow to develop its plans, including details of the scheme design and airspace change, and hold a further consultation to allow the public a further say on the next phase of Heathrow’s plans and additional opportunities to have their voices heard. Any application for development consent will, of course, be considered carefully and with an open mind, based on the evidence provided. The process includes a public examination by the independent planning inspectorate before any final decision is made.

Alongside the NPS today, I have published a comprehensive package of materials that I hope and believe will enable Members of this House to make an informed decision ahead of the vote. It is a very comprehensive package that I hope will provide answers to the questions that Members will have. I hope that the House will feel that this scheme is crucial to our national interest and that we need to work together to deliver it, in order to create what I believe is an absolutely vital legacy for the future of this country. I hope that Members across the House will get behind this plan and support this nationally strategically important project. I commend this Statement to the House”.

--- Later in debate ---

[Baroness Randerson (LD)]

My Lords, this Statement has an air of Alice in Wonderland about it. Governments have been considering this problem for 20 years but I am afraid that the question is out of date, and so is the answer. Hub airports are no longer the growth area in aviation; the growth area is now in direct long-haul flights. The idea of concentrating ever more development in the overcrowded south-east will, the Government say, benefit other parts of the UK as well. Yet the report by the New Economics Foundation, Flying Low, shows that a new runway at Heathrow will cost regional airports 14 million passengers a year. It will harm them, not benefit them.

The first lack of reality is on the timescale, since 2026 is ridiculously optimistic. The idea that you are going to build a runway as well as demolishing 800 houses, moving an incinerator and dealing with the public inquiry, with development consent and—I am fairly certain—with challenges in the courts from local councils suggests to me that the Government do not have realistic expectations in that regard. This is important because it will have a big impact on the ability for any airport development to help our trade situation. There is also a level of fictional economics, which is that the Government have assigned this a zero cost by saying that it is a private development. Can the Minister clarify her attitude to Transport for London’s estimate of a £6 billion cost to the public purse for public transport? Who will pay for the cost of the disruption to the M25 and M4?

I greatly regret that there is a very brief paragraph on air quality. We were hardly aware of emissions issues when this problem was first investigated. Can the Minister provide us with more detail on how this development will enable the Government’s compliance with international obligations? Will she particularly address the issue of surface transport access and surface transport within the airport?

This is supposed to be a national statement yet there is only one brief paragraph in it referring to anywhere other than the south-east of England. How do the Government intend to achieve their promise of supporting other airports to make best use of their runways? Is that a concrete promise of support or is it simply wishing them well in the process? Liberal Democrats believe that the Government should be using airport development as a springboard for the development and prosperity of the north and the Midlands. They should be spreading prosperity across the whole country.

Finally, I warn everyone who is interested in this to look carefully at the wording in the Statement, especially that on page two. All the reassurances are couched in weasel words.

“We expect up to 15% of slots”,


will “facilitate domestic connections”. What does that promise to other parts of the UK? The Government expect,

“up to £2.6 billion … compensation”,

to be paid. They expect not at least £2.6 billion, but up to that figure. They,

“expect … a six-and-a-half hour ban on scheduled night flights”.—[Official Report, Commons, 5/6/18; col. 170.]

What exactly are the guarantees, not the Government’s expectations, on compensation and night flight bans?

[Baroness Sugg]

My Lords, I will attempt to get through all the questions, but if I do not I will follow up in writing. The noble Lord, Lord Tunnicliffe, asked about the consultation adviser Sir Jeremy Sullivan. He reviewed the Government’s consultation process and provided challenge to Ministers and officials to ensure that it was of a high standard, and produced two reports, which have been published. However, the role was on the government consultation, so it has now been completed.

On the Transport Select Committee comment on approval of the NPS, noble Lords debated the draft NPS on 15 March and the formal scrutiny period ended on 23 March. The proposed airports NPS needs approval by resolution of the House of Commons before it can be designated. This House has an agreed process for national policy statements, which is laid out in the Companion, and that is what we are following. Any further debate in this House will, of course, be a matter for my noble friend the Chief Whip.

On the Transport Select Committee’s recommendations, as the noble Lord pointed out, we agree with what it is seeking to achieve in 24 of the recommendations. Several of those recommendations will be addressed at a later stage through the development consent order, for example, or by other means, such as the regulatory framework. We have published a detailed response setting out our approach for each of those recommendations.

The noble Lord was right to point out that for long-haul flights there are net additional emerging market destinations by 2050, and emerging markets are a subset of the long-haul group. It is often more helpful to consider destinations served on at least a daily basis, as that frequency is especially important to business passengers. The north-west runway scheme would lead to an additional 14 long-haul designations being served daily by 2040.

Our analysis demonstrates that the scheme can be delivered without impacting on the UK’s compliance with limits set out in the EU ambient air quality directive. However, it is not for the NPS to set out the legal obligations in detail.

On community compensation, particularly for noise insulation, the current public commitment is to contribute up to £3,000 for noise insulation. That commitment will be examined during any planning process which follows the designation, if it happens, of the NPS. The NPS makes it clear that the Secretary of State will consider whether the applicant has put the correct mitigations in place, at least to the level committed to in the Heathrow Airport public commitments, before finally agreeing.

On community engagement, Rachel Cerfontyne has been appointed to the Heathrow community engagement board. She was previously at the Independent Police Complaints Commission—the chair has no powers, per se. The role is as more of an advocate. Although independent, she will obviously have connections with senior levels at DfT and will help to influence where necessary. I met her recently, and I believe she will do an excellent job of holding Heathrow to account.

I turn to the points raised by the noble Baroness, Lady Randerson. On the question of hub status, we think it gives us the best of both worlds. A large hub airport can compete for transport passengers to provide the connectivity that the UK needs while at the same time enabling growth for other airports around the UK. On timing, obviously we will be working closely with the developer should the NPS be designated. We have had the timing independently and expertly appraised, and as things progress we will be working very closely on that. On costs for surface access, the applicant would pay in full the cost of any surface access required purely for airport expansion. If there are other benefits, the question of how those schemes are funded will be discussed.

To return to air quality, we have always been clear that development consent will be granted only if the air quality obligations are met. The environmental assessment and mitigations proposed by the airport will be carefully scrutinised, independently and in public, before any decision is made on whether to grant the development consents. The NPS outlines some of the measures that Heathrow may adopt to demonstrate these requirements, including the potential emissions-based access charge, the use of zero-emission or low-emission vehicles and an increase in public modes shared by passengers and employees.

On domestic connectivity, one of the reasons why the Government chose the north-west runway is that we fully recognise the importance of air services to everyone across the UK. The Secretary of State set out his ambition for 15% of slots from the new runway to be used for domestic routes, and we expect the majority of those domestic routes to be commercially viable. I know Heathrow is already in discussions with many airports across the country on that. We think that in the first instance it is a commercial decision for airlines, and we will hold the airport operator to account on how it has worked constructively with airlines and regional airports to protect and strengthen the domestic connections. Heathrow Airport Limited has already set out a number of pledges to support domestic connectivity, including financial support for the new routes, but if those measures do not meet our expectations, the Government can take action where appropriate to secure routes through the public service obligations.

I hope I have got to every point. If I have not, I will follow up in writing. The noble Lord, Lord Tunnicliffe, referred to the Labour Party’s four tests: meeting climate change obligations, protecting air quality, supporting growth across the country and addressing noise issues. I hope the noble Lord and his party, once they have read through the documents, will agree that the revised NPS meets them.

--- Later in debate ---

[Baroness Sugg]

I thank my noble friend for his support on this decision. As he said, he is a predecessor of mine, and I am sure that he was discussing it then, so it is great to take this step of laying the final national policy statement. We need to act now. Our latest analysis shows that all five London airports will be full by the mid-2030s, and we are losing ground to our competitor hubs in Europe and the Middle East.

The night flight ban will be at least a six and a half hour ban on all scheduled flights. It could be more than that, with predictable respite. Once designated, that will go to further consultation with local communities to agree the exact detail.

[Lord Soley (Lab)]

My 20-year campaign to expand Heathrow covered the period when I was a Member of Parliament for two west London constituencies. Of course, some people are vocally against it. I have to say that they are frequently the people who fly more often, which came out in a number of constituency meetings that I did in the area. An awful lot of people who do not speak out clearly are desperately in favour because of high-quality jobs. When I spoke in schools in the area, teachers were often against it, for understandable reasons—because of the noise—but when you asked the children how many of them had family or friends who worked at the airport or in an airport-associated job, nearly all of them did. Please ensure that we take account of the needs of those local people, too.

The regions are incredibly important. We cannot expect the regions of England to do well unless they are linked into the hub airport. If all the other countries have hub airports and are developing them, there is a common-sense question: why is that? The common-sense answer is because you need interchange—interchange for Scotland, Wales, and the south-west of England, which is often underestimated. They need links too. Please will the Minister pursue this and take into account the crucial importance of jobs in south-west London and related areas?

[Baroness Sugg]

I thank the noble Lord for his supportive comments. This expansion will absolutely deliver jobs for the local area: I think that the latest figure is 114,000 and 5,000 apprenticeships, which will obviously be welcome for young people. We have not underestimated the potential impact of this decision on local communities, or the importance of listening to them and doing it in the right way. I personally met some of the local groups which have been campaigning hard on this issue and saw at first-hand their strength of feeling. The NPS commits up to £2.6 billion towards compensation, noise insulation and improvements to public communities but, as the noble Lord said, expansion has support from local communities as well as opposition.

[Baroness Kramer (LD)]

My Lords, I declare an interest, in that I live under the flight path and belong to many of the community organisations that the Minister will have met. I am appalled by this proposal, as will be the majority of the community where I live and the surrounding communities. Will the Minister confirm that it is clear in the report that daytime respite periods will be shorter under this plan? It says in parenthesis that they will be cut. Perhaps she will confirm that. That matters because there may be money for insulation, but that is not very useful for children who want to play outside or for people who want to walk outside or sit in a garden. Perhaps she will tell us the number of hours of peace that we are about to lose every day.

To answer the question of the noble Lord, Lord Brabazon, airlines will be permitted to run a full service from 5.30 in the morning under the new plan. The night-time ban is six and a half hours: 11 pm to 5.30 in the morning. Currently, they cannot run a full service until 6 am. That is done because Asian Governments are concerned that their residents are being disturbed by departures, so instead our local residents are to be disturbed by arrivals.

Will the Minister confirm what is clear to me from the report: that the required noise level that the airport has to achieve is that in existence in 2013, giving up five years of improvement? All the surface transport mitigations listed are those under way or in place to deal with current congestion, current overcrowding, the air quality problems of the current airport, and the forecast growth in demand in the local community. There is no additionality to deal with 41 million people, a doubling of freight and no indication of who will pay.

On air quality, there are just vague aspirations without any guarantees, clarity or targets. Will the Minister confirm that?

[Baroness Sugg]

My Lords, on the respite periods, the final flight paths obviously have not been confirmed yet, and I understand why there is frustration about that. The proposals to change airspace design have to follow the new airspace change process, which will be done in the coming years, in close consultation with the community.

On the 6.5 hour ban, it has not been decided between periods of 11 pm and 5.30 am exactly where that will go. As I say, that will also be done in consultation with local communities. We think that there could be more respite than that, and predictable respite too. Obviously, with a third runway, there will be more aircraft movements in the sky, so I acknowledge that there will be more noise. We have set out a comprehensive package of compensation, which includes noise insulation and improvements to public amenities.

On the surface access point, there is lots of investment to come on that. I would mention Crossrail, HS2 and Southern Rail and western rail access. There are clear commitments to 50% of public transport use by 2030 and 55% by 2040. Where that is directly to deal with expansion, it will be paid for by the developer.

[Lord Craig of Radley (CB)]

My Lords, I thank the Minister for repeating the Statement, which talks about ensuring timely delivery. One aspect of this will be a large number of legal challenges. What powers do the Government have, if any, to ensure after due process that this very expensive and ambitious programme will continue and be completed on time?

[Baroness Sugg]

My Lords, the noble and gallant Lord is quite right to point out that there may well be judicial reviews around this. Obviously, we are expecting that. The Airports Commission asks that the runway is delivered by 2030. As I said, Heathrow is working to 2026, and we have independent appraisals on that and will work closely with it. We will of course follow correct judicial processes on this, but we will work with Heathrow to get this delivered for 2026, as I say.

[Lord Swinfen (Con)]

My Lords, what consideration is being given to using Manston Airport on the Isle of Thanet, particularly for freight, to relieve both Heathrow and Gatwick? I know that it is some way from London, but it is easily reached by road and rail, both of which run alongside the airport, which has the longest runway in Europe. Aircraft can go straight out over the North Sea and down the Dover Strait and into the English Channel.

[Baroness Sugg]

My Lords, I know that there are some very interesting proposals around Manston Airport. One of the reasons why we chose Heathrow was because of its freight capacity and the expansion will deliver doubling of freight on that. Alongside that, we are already full at Heathrow, and expect to be full at other airports very soon. Alongside the laying of the final NPS, we announced the policy on making best use of existing capacity to ensure that other airports can do that.

[Lord Davies of Stamford (Lab)]

My Lords, it is extremely good news that this project is finally going to go ahead but I fear that, as the noble Baroness, Lady Randerson, said—and I think that the Minister has already acknowledged the point—we may run into quite a lot of obstacles and sources of delay. If we do, I hope that the Government will consider proceeding by some accelerated legislative process to carry this through without undue delay. Undue delays in infrastructure projects are surely a great national economic handicap which we have had for some time, but will the Minister agree that this is a particularly egregious case? We have had delays of at least eight years, due to indecision, vacillation and the setting up of quite otiose inquiries, when their results were already known in advance, merely to delay the outbreak of conflict within the Conservative Party and disputes between that party and the House of Commons. That is a very bad example. I think that future generations and the international world as a whole would have noticed that. Does she accept that, had the last Labour Government won the 2010 general election—I declare my interest: I served in that Government, but I had nothing whatever to do with civil aviation or airports—this new runway would have already been built?

[Baroness Sugg]

My Lords, I welcome the noble Lord’s welcoming of the NPS. He is quite right to point out that this has taken some time and has been the subject of many conversations, which is why we were so pleased to be able to lay the final NPS yesterday. We absolutely need to get on with this. As to whether this would have happened should the Labour Government have won in 2010, I am sure a lot of things would be different, but I am not sure whether the runway would now be built.

--- Later in debate ---

[Lord Trefgarne (Con)]

My Lords, what is the future for RAF Northolt as this project goes ahead?

[Baroness Sugg]

My Lords, I do not think that this project will affect RAF Northolt; it obviously is a long-standing RAF airport and the laying of the NPS and the future designations should not affect that.

[Baroness Tonge (Non-Afl)]

My Lords, at the end of the terminal 5 public inquiry, in which I was involved, we were promised that there would be no further expansion of Heathrow Airport, and especially not a third runway there. In view of the fact that the Minister has just told us that there will be huge expansion of capacity at Heathrow, can she tell us how long we have to wait before there will be plans for a terminal 6 or even a terminal 7 at Heathrow? Will there be any end to the expansion there? Finally, can she relay a message to the Foreign Secretary that I am very willing to lay down with him at any time, providing it is in front of a bulldozer?

[Baroness Sugg]

On further expansion at Heathrow, I acknowledge that the third runway has been talked about for some time. The Conservative manifesto in 2017 set out our support of it and that we look to proceed on it. I will pass that message on to my right honourable friend the Foreign Secretary.

[Lord Spicer (Con)]

My Lords, is my noble friend aware that I have mixed feelings about this decision? Having been the House bore on the subject for many years, of course I am pleased that we have moved with greater certainty towards a final decision on this matter, but it has come very late. When I was Minister for Aviation in the 1980s, Heathrow was by far and away the busiest international airport in the world, whereas now it is well down the pecking order. My noble friend has today used the words “Heathrow is full” and then, when having to be asked what we do about that, rather mumbled, I am afraid, that we will look at other airports. The fact is that if we are to have enough capacity in the late 2020s in this country, we have to build a runway of the size of those at Heathrow at every single one of our London-based airports over the next 10 years. This has not even barely begun to strike us. The decision is good news in so far as it is happening, but it is terribly late and we will have to do a lot of catching up now.

[Baroness Sugg]

I thank my noble friend for his support. I again acknowledge that this has taken some time, but we have now laid the final NPS. On other airports and reaching capacity, demand for flights is growing and will continue to grow. That is why, alongside the NPS, we also made the announcement of other airports being able to make best use of their existing capacity.

[Lord McKenzie of Luton (Lab)]

My Lords, I welcome this Statement. It has been a long time coming, and of course there is a long way to go yet; even if the noble Baroness, Lady Randerson, is not right about the timescale, the development control order will not be completed until the early 2020s, according to the Statement, and by the time it is actually built it will probably coincide with us moving back into this place. I particularly support the encouragement of other airports, and in doing so I declare my interest as a board member of London Luton Airport. I think the Minister is aware that Luton is already seeking to make best use of its runways and to build additional capacity. I will ask about the planning system, because all this is putting a great deal of pressure on certain bodies, whether it is PINS or local planning authorities, and this Statement will exacerbate that. What assessment have the Government made of the capacity of the system to cope expeditiously with all the good stuff that could come from this?

[Baroness Sugg]

I thank the noble Lord for his support. I was pleased to visit Luton Airport recently and hear about its exciting plans for its development. On the planning process, we absolutely believe that there is capacity to do this. The scheme promoter will consult on the proposals before submitting its application, which will give people a further opportunity to have their voices heard, and then, after the development consent application, the Secretary of State will consider it. However, we are satisfied that there is capacity to do that.

[Lord Bradshaw (LD)]

My Lords, the Statement makes clear to us that the airport will be built with private capital. Will the compensation package be met by the airport, and will the other infrastructure improvements which are necessary be met by the Government or by the promoters?

[Baroness Sugg]

My Lords, I am happy to confirm that all those costs will be met by the developer: the compensation package and the cost of the development will all be privately financed. The provision of on-surface access and anything which is needed for the airport to expand will be met by the developer.

[Lord Elystan-Morgan (CB)]

What discussions are the Government having with the devolved Administration in Cardiff as to the likely consequence for the land and nation of Wales of this massive development?

[Baroness Sugg]

I am happy to confirm that I spoke to my opposite number in Wales yesterday, who absolutely welcomed this proposal. They are excited about it and are keen to see it go ahead, and I will visit him soon to discuss it further.

[Baroness O'Cathain (Con)]

My Lords, how many more M25s, M42s, M6s and so on will we need to be built alongside this expanded Heathrow Airport just to get the passengers to the airport or from it?

[Baroness Sugg]

My noble friend is right to point out that work on the roads will be needed, and there is some information out there already with the details of that. As I said before, where it is needed for airport expansion, the developer will pay for it. I also mentioned earlier the targets of increased public transport for people travelling to the airport. We have many investments in that already, and we expect that to increase.