Commonwealth Heads of Government Meeting and Philippines
Lord Hill of Oareford Excerpts(10 years, 6 months ago)
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The Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster (Lord Hill of Oareford) (Con)
My Lords, with the leave of the House I will now repeat a Statement made by my right honourable friend the Prime Minister in another place. The Statement is as follows.
“With permission, Mr Speaker, I would like to make a statement on the disaster in the Philippines and the Commonwealth meeting in Sri Lanka. Ten days ago a category 5 super typhoon brought massive destruction across the Philippines, where the city of Tacloban was devastated by a tidal wave almost two and a half metres high. The scale of what happened is still becoming clear, with many of the country’s 7,000 islands not yet reached or assessed. But already we know that more than 12 million people have been affected, with more than 4,400 dead and more than 1,500 missing, including a number of Britons. This disaster follows other deadly storms there and an earthquake that killed 200 people in Bohol last month. I am sure the thoughts of the whole House will be with all those affected, their friends and their families.
Britain has been at the forefront of the international relief effort. The British public have once again shown incredible generosity and compassion, donating £35 million so far, and the Government have contributed more than £50 million to the humanitarian response. In the last week, HMS “Daring” and her onboard helicopter, an RAF C17, and eight different relief flights, have brought essential supplies from the UK and helped get aid to those who need it most. An RAF C130, a Hercules, will arrive tomorrow and HMS “Illustrious” will also be there by the end of this week, equipped with seven helicopters, water desalination and command and control capabilities. Beyond the immediate task of life-saving aid, the people of the Philippines will face a long task of rebuilding and reducing their vulnerability to these kinds of events. Britain will continue to support them every step of the way.
I turn to the Commonwealth, and then to the issues in Sri Lanka. The Commonwealth is a unique organisation representing 53 countries, with one-third of the world’s population and one-fifth of the global economy. It is united by history, relationships and the values of the new Commonwealth charter, which we agreed two years ago in Perth. Britain is a leading member. Her Majesty the Queen is the head of the Commonwealth and His Royal Highness the Prince of Wales did our country proud acting on her behalf and attending last week.
As with all the international organisations to which we belong, the Commonwealth allows us to champion the values and economic growth that are so vital to our national interest. At this summit, we reached important conclusions on poverty, human rights and trade. On poverty, this was the last Commonwealth meeting before the millennium development goals expire. We wanted our Commonwealth partners to unite behind the ambitious programme set by the United Nations High Level Panel, which I co-chaired with the Presidents of Indonesia and Liberia. For the first time, this programme prioritises not just aid but the vital place of anti-corruption efforts, open institutions, access to justice, the rule of law and good governance in tackling poverty.
On human rights, the Commonwealth reiterated its support for the core values set out in the Commonwealth charter. Commonwealth leaders condemned in the strongest terms the use of sexual violence in conflict, an issue championed globally by my right honourable friend the Foreign Secretary. We also called for an end to early and forced marriage and for greater freedom of religion and belief. We committed to taking urgent and decisive action against the illegal wildlife trade ahead of the conference in London next year. Britain successfully resisted an attempt to usher Zimbabwe back into the Commonwealth without first addressing the deep concerns that remain about human rights and political freedoms.
The Foreign Secretary and I also used the meeting to build the case for more open trade and for developing our links with the fastest growing parts of the world. The Commonwealth backed a deal at next month’s World Trade Organisation meeting in Bali that could cut bureaucracy at borders and generate $100 billion for the global economy. Before and after the summit in Sri Lanka, I continued to bang the drum for British trade and investment. I went to New Delhi and Calcutta in India before heading to Sri Lanka, the third time I have visited India as Prime Minister, and I went from the summit to Abu Dhabi and Dubai where Airbus agreed new orders from Emirates and Etihad airlines that will add £5.4 billion to the British economy. These orders will sustain and secure 6,500 British jobs, including at the plants in north Wales and Bristol, and open up new opportunities for the Rolls-Royce factory in Derby.
The previous Labour Government agreed in late 2009 to hold the 2013 Commonwealth meeting in Sri Lanka. That was not my decision, but I was determined that I would use the presence of the Commonwealth and my own visit to shine a global spotlight on the situation there, which is exactly what I did. I became the first foreign leader to visit the north of the country since independence in 1948. By taking the media with me, I gave the local population the chance to be heard by an international audience. I met the new provincial Chief Minister from the Tamil National Alliance, who was elected in a vote that only happened because of the spotlight of the Commonwealth meeting. I took our journalists to meet the incredibly brave Tamil journalists at the Uthayan newspaper in Jaffna—many of whom have seen their colleagues killed, and have themselves been beaten and intimidated.
I met and heard from displaced people desperately wanting to return to their homes and their livelihoods. As part of our support for reconciliation efforts across the country, I announced an additional £2.1 million to support demining work in parts of the north, including the locations of some of the most chilling scenes from Channel 4’s “No Fire Zone” documentary.
When I met President Rajapaksa, I pressed for credible, transparent and independent investigations into alleged war crimes. I made it clear to him that if these investigations are not begun properly by March, then I will use our position on the UN Human Rights Council to work with the UN Human Rights Commissioner and call for an international inquiry.
No one wants to return to the days of the Tamil Tigers and the disgusting and brutal things that they did. We should, I believe, show proper respect for the fact that Sri Lanka suffered almost three decades of bloody civil conflict, and that recovery and reconciliation take time. But, as I made clear to President Rajapaksa, he now has a real opportunity, through magnanimity and reform, to build a successful, inclusive and prosperous future for his country, working in partnership with the newly elected Chief Minister of the Northern Province. I very much hope that he seizes this opportunity.
Sri Lanka has suffered an appalling civil war, and then of course suffered again from the 2004 tsunami. But it is an extraordinary and beautiful country with enormous potential. Achieving that potential is all about reconciliation. It is about bringing justice and closure and healing to this country, which now has the chance, if it takes it, of a much brighter future. That will only happen by dealing with these issues and not ignoring them.
I had a choice at this summit—to stay away and allow President Rajapaksa to set the agenda he wanted, or to go and shape the agenda by advancing our interests with our Commonwealth partners and shining a spotlight on the international concerns about Sri Lanka. I chose to go and stand up for our values and do all I could to advance them. That was, I believe, the right decision for Sri Lanka, for the Commonwealth and for Britain. I commend this Statement to the House”.
My Lords, that concludes the Statement.
Lord Hill of Oareford
My Lords, first, I thank the Leader of the Opposition for her support for the action that the British Government have taken so far to provide help in the Philippines. I noted in particular the support that she gave for our troops and the work that they are doing, and for the generous response of the British public in providing charitable help. I think that, as the noble Baroness said, other countries will need to do more to make sure that the commitments that have been made are honoured. The Government will work, through the Foreign Office and DfID, to try to make sure that they fulfil those commitments and follow the kind of lead that the British Government have taken.
The noble Baroness was also right to emphasise the importance of humanitarian relief reaching the remote areas, where there is obviously a particular problem. I hope that HMS “Illustrious”, with its helicopters, will help to deliver aid more readily to such areas, along with the United States carrier in the area, which is providing more capacity for lifting and for getting aid to those remote places. The noble Baroness is right to remind us of that. I was glad of the support that she gave for the communiqué and the commitments in it, and I am grateful for her support for the stance that the British Government took on Zimbabwe.
I turn to some of the noble Baroness’s specific questions and the Prime Minister’s decision to go to this CHOGM. In essence, he went for two reasons, and I happen to think that he was right to do so for both. The first was to lend his support and encouragement for the general work that the Commonwealth as a whole is trying to do to take forward its agenda on the development of human rights and so on. The second, as he has argued very forcefully and, I think, convincingly, was to bring more pressure to bear and to shine a spotlight on the awful things that appear to have happened in Sri Lanka.
I am not sure how he would have been able to prosecute that case if he had not been there. To take what is perhaps a trivial example, we would not have been having this discussion and this Statement today if Britain had chosen to sit on her hands. Therefore, I think that it was the right decision. If one looks at the political and media coverage to date, the profile that the summit has achieved over the past few days is far greater than would have been the case if my right honourable friend had not been there.
On the other specific questions that the noble Baroness asked me, the Prime Minister pressed the case for an independent, credible and transparent inquiry to start by March. We will continue to build on the work started at CHOGM to maintain pressure on the Sri Lankan Government for that independent inquiry to get under way. The Prime Minister was absolutely clear that, if that does not happen, he will use his good offices through the UN to press for an international inquiry. That obviously remains a possibility should progress not be made.
Regarding whether President Rajapaksa is an appropriate person to be chair-in-office, the noble Baroness will know that the whole basis on which the Commonwealth proceeds is by consensus. There is no precedent at all for the removal of a member state from the chair-in-office. As it happens, there is no formal role for the chair-in-office following the CHOGM other than chairing the Commonwealth Foreign Ministers meeting in September. The Commonwealth is effectively run by the Secretary-General and not by the country that happens to be in the chair. As I said, there is no precedent for removing a member state. The decision was effectively taken back in 2009 and, given that it is an institution that proceeds on consensus, there was no prospect at all of that being unravelled.
However, I come back to the point that lay behind the noble Baroness’s final question concerning whether it was right for the Prime Minister and the British Government to be represented there, as opposed to the stance that a couple of other countries took. For the reasons that I have already given, I contend that it was the right decision both for the Commonwealth and for shining a spotlight on the situation in Sri Lanka.
Lord Howell of Guildford (Con)
Does my noble friend accept that, despite the perfectly understandable concerns about human rights issues in Sri Lanka, the visit of the Prime Minister, my right honourable friend Mr Cameron, did a huge amount of good both in focusing on the issues and, indeed, in helping to promote trade and investment with a rapidly expanding pattern of economic dynamism throughout the modern Commonwealth? Does he also accept that the words of His Royal Highness Prince Charles, who said that the Commonwealth was a means of bringing a “touch of healing” to a troubled world, were extremely apposite? Does he therefore conclude that the mugwumps, including the Financial Times and the British Labour Party, who argued that the Prime Minister should not go look pretty silly?
Will my noble friend also explain to the noble Baroness that at Perth in 2011 there was absolutely no chance of reopening the Colombo decision, because it had been settled at the 2009 meeting, which was attended by Gordon Brown, the then British Prime Minister? It was agreed that there should be a postponement but that the decision for 2013 should be locked in. It is all very well after the event saying that somehow the decision should have been reopened. It could not have been; it was settled in Trinidad in 2009. Will he explain that to the noble Baroness opposite? I think that those opposite are experiencing some embarrassment that they suggested that Mr Cameron should not go when it was obviously wise for him to do so. He did a lot of good for us, for the Commonwealth and, indeed, even for Sri Lanka.
Lord Hill of Oareford
I obviously agree with my noble friend about the contribution made by the Prime Minister, particularly as far as the point about trade is concerned. There is about £250 billion worth of trade every year between Commonwealth countries, and any progress that we can make to encourage that to be taken forward can be only for the good. As for my noble friend’s request to explain to the noble Baroness, Lady Royall, certain events that happened in 2009, I do not think that I could do any better than my noble friend.
Lord Alton of Liverpool (CB)
My Lords, given what the Minister has said to the House about the response of both the public and the British Government to the people of the Philippines, does he not agree that, in the light of the long disputes that have taken place between China and the Philippines, this would be an admirable opportunity to draw China in to the relief operations? Does he further agree, given the response that was made to China at the time of the Szechuan earthquake, that these catastrophes can be times, to use a phrase used elsewhere in the Statement, for healing and reconciliation?
When discussions took place about the reference to the Human Rights Council of the atrocities that occurred in Sri Lanka, did any discussion take place of the model used in South Africa of a justice and truth commission to examine what took place as an opportunity for both sides to come to terms with the depredations that have occurred there?
Lord Hill of Oareford
On the first point, I agree with the noble Lord that these awful events could provide an opportunity for a little bit of healing. I hope that other nations will take part in providing help to the Philippines. As far as the detail of the conversations is concerned, I am not sure which parallels or analogies were raised. I am sure that it was the case, however, that some of our experience in Northern Ireland—the difficult times that we went through and the lessons that we learnt in trying to make progress there—were raised and would have been apposite. If there is anything further that I can find out for the noble Lord, I will certainly let him know.
Lord Anderson of Swansea (Lab)
My Lords, the Minister was right to say that the core values of the Commonwealth are set out in the charter: human rights and democracy. Does he not at least agree that those aspirations become much less credible when, for the next two years, the lead country in the Commonwealth will be Sri Lanka? It is not just a formal matter: Sri Lanka will also chair the Commonwealth Ministerial Action Group, which deals with penalties against those who default. Here is a major defaulter being in charge of judgment against the others.
The Minister will see that a number of Commonwealth countries were mentioned in the communiqué: Belize, Cyprus and so on. Why was there no mention of overseas territories such as Gibraltar and the Falklands, when surely one could look for some Commonwealth solidarity in such important matters as Gibraltar and the Falkands? Did the Prime Minister in any way try to influence his colleagues to show solidarity in respect of these two very important overseas territories?
Lord Hill of Oareford
My Lords, on the first point, no one is claiming—I am not—that making progress on human rights across the Commonwealth is a straightforward process. I think, however, that it helps that the charter that was signed in March has that commitment. The nature of our meetings is that we just have to keep pushing forward and trying to make progress. I do not claim that it is straightforward, but I claim that Britain being there—flying the flag for those values, arguing for them and shining a spotlight on the case of Sri Lanka where some of them are in question—was the right thing to do. As for the noble Lord’s specific question about Gibraltar, I do not have any information readily to hand, but if there is something that I can dig out for him, I will happily do so.
Lord Steel of Aikwood (LD)
On the Philippine tragedy, I agree with the Leader of the House and the Leader of the Opposition that the response of the British public to this disaster has been truly heartwarming and really generous. I also commend the Government and the Armed Forces for the efforts they are making to add to the relief of that terrible tragedy.
On the Commonwealth meeting, does my noble friend agree that it was not only unfortunate, but almost inevitable, that the coverage of this conference was dominated by conditions inside Sri Lanka itself? In order to avoid that happening again, would it not be a good idea if the heads of Government were to make it clear among themselves and to the Secretary-General that future heads of Government meetings will only be held in those Commonwealth countries that abide by what he called the core values of the Commonwealth charter? Does he agree that if that policy decision were made in advance, that in itself would help the promotion of human rights and democratic values throughout the Commonwealth?
Lord Hill of Oareford
I am grateful to my noble friend for his comments on the Philippines. On the Commonwealth conference, I would argue that going to Sri Lanka—and I obviously understand the points he makes about the anxieties that many people have about the situation there—will enable us and the rest of the world to have a greater focus on the problems there and help to address them. Therefore, while I understand the general point he made about wanting to work to ensure that all Commonwealth countries abide by basic human rights, in this case, having the CHOGM there has helped to take forward the case of the human rights of those people, particularly those living in the north of the island.
Lord Jay of Ewelme (CB)
My Lords, I think that the Prime Minister was right to go to Sri Lanka; it is much better to confront difficult issues than to duck them. It is equally important, however, that now that the issue has been confronted, the confrontation should continue. Will the Leader of the House say a little bit more about how the Prime Minister intends that the pressure on Sri Lanka over human rights be continued in the year or two ahead? Was there support for that pressure from within the Commonwealth itself?
Lord Hill of Oareford
At the moment, I am not able to add any specific information as to the next steps that will be taken. This was the beginning of a process initiated by the Prime Minister in Sri Lanka just a few days ago. He made clear, for instance, the need for an independent inquiry to say that if there are not steps taken and some progress made by March, the next step would be an escalation through the UN, pressing for an international inquiry. Other steps have started: the establishment in August, for example, by the Sri Lankan Government of a commission into the disappearances. That would be another initiative—another piece of work—that we would all want to observe to see what progress is made. There will be a number of strands that we will need to observe as the months go on, but what I can certainly say is that, having been there and seen for himself the situation in the north of the island—the first head of a foreign Government to go there for 65 years—my right honourable friend will do everything he can to keep up the sort of pressure for which the noble Lord is calling.
Lord Soley (Lab)
My Lords, may I repeat the point made a few moments ago by the noble Lord, Lord Steel, and ask for a more positive reply? It is possible—this should be outside of party politics here—that in future, any chairman of such a conference must abide by the charter of the Commonwealth. Surely he could take that suggestion back to the Prime Minister. Secondly, perhaps the Minister could tell me whether he agrees that Britain, along with other Commonwealth countries, could do a lot more to advance the rule of law in Sri Lanka for both communities and particularly in relation to the protection of journalists, who are very much at risk at the moment? I declare an interest as the chairman of the Good Governance Foundation.
Lord Hill of Oareford
On the point made by the noble Lord and my noble friend Lord Steel, I am sure that people will learn from some of the decisions taken in the past. As has already been alluded to, a lot of the decisions about where these things will take place are made many years out. The Commonwealth is an institution which proceeds on the basis of consensus, so the notion that Britain alone is able to determine these things clearly is not the case. I understand the noble Lord’s point about the need for continuing an emphasis on the importance of human rights. I did not mean to imply any negative response to that. I very much agree with the importance of that which has been encapsulated in the Commonwealth charter.
I believe we would all share the noble Lord’s concerns about the situation that has been affecting journalists in Sri Lanka. Partly for that reason, my right honourable friend the Prime Minister was very keen to have journalists with him on his visit to the north. Again, he has made clear that the eyes of the world will be on Sri Lanka, in particular the way in which journalists there are treated in the wake of that visit to make sure that proper standards are upheld.
The Lord Bishop of Birmingham
My Lords, I thank the Government for this remarkable reminder of the generosity of the British people and DEC, and for the commitment of “HMS Daring” and other support. “HMS Daring” of course is connected with Birmingham, the most landlocked city in Britain. Perhaps I may ask the Leader of the House about not just the emergency phase, which is so important, as regards food, water and shelter, but the recovery phase in disasters such as this where we are looking for housing, infrastructure and livelihood. In looking further ahead than just the natural response to the ghastly situation, will he take into account two matters? One was raised by the Philippines climate change commissioner, Yeb Sano, at the UN Climate Change Conference in Warsaw. He said, “Typhoons such as Haiyan”—
or Yolanda as it is called in the Philippines—
“and its impacts represent a sobering reminder to the international community that we cannot afford to procrastinate on climate action”,
and that the emergency response should look into the much more serious long-term effects of these kinds of climate changes.
The second matter is the understanding that is growing in the use of quick aid into resilience. For example, Tearfund investigated the Government’s expenditure in Malawi. It noted that for every £1 spent, £24-worth of infrastructure, resilience, and the ability to cope not just with ordinary difficulties but with disasters can be achieved. Will the Government please take into account these longer-term matters so that we are stronger when the next time comes?
Lord Hill of Oareford
The right reverend Prelate makes an extremely wise point about the long-term future. I am grateful for what he says about the short-term response, although, as he rightly says, a lot of that is down to the natural generosity and human feeling of the British people in terms of their charitable response. The Government are glad to have been able to play their part alongside them in increasing the amount of aid that they have made available.
The right reverend Prelate is obviously also right that there is a difference between the short-term crisis response and what one can do longer term. As he has said, DfID was working with the Philippine Government prior to the emergency on some of the issues which he mentioned which come from climate change. Certainly, helping those countries invest in homes and infrastructure that in future would be better able to support some of these natural disasters is the wise thing to do. I am sure that through the work of DfID, the Government will continue to reflect on that.
Lord Naseby (Con)
As chairman of the all-party group I welcome enormously that the Prime Minister went to Colombo. Is my noble friend aware that the reaction from the nearly 500,000 Sri Lankans living in the UK, whether they be Sinhalese, Tamil or Muslim, has not been at all positive? My e-mail has virtually collapsed because people are deeply concerned at the way in which the Prime Minister raised, in their view, an unbalanced view of what progress had been made, particularly the manner in which it was delivered to the President of Sri Lanka? I have to say that I partially share that concern.
As we move forward, which is the key to all this, does my noble friend, as he sits in the Cabinet, recognise that it has been only four years and that in those four years there is peace? There are no bombs and you can go where you like. You do not have to have your cards with you and there are no checkpoints. That is enormous progress in four years. After all, we took nine years to get rid of rationing. Even as one of those who suffered from the bombing in London, we did not succeed in producing an ideal situation within four years.
Perhaps I may bear on the House for a moment; two dimensions are involved. First, we now know the number of people who disappeared, of whom, sadly, some 600 were children, who I suspect are child soldiers. We now know that. There is a commission. I think that it would be great progress if the International Committee of the Red Cross were to join that commission, because it has helped in producing the numbers.
Secondly, we now have established the numbers who were killed. We know from the Tamil teachers who did the audit that the number is somewhere around 9,000, which is a number that we can handle. Will my noble friend please give maximum encouragement to the processing of those 9,000 to make sure that we find out exactly who they were?
Lord Hill of Oareford
My Lords, I certainly accept the point. The Prime Minister was very clear in his Statement that one cannot disassociate oneself from the awful history of Sri Lanka over the past 30 years and the history of bloodshed and civil strife that it has gone through. That having been said, I do not accept that the Prime Minister made his case to the President of Sri Lanka in an unbalanced way. There is quite a lot of contention around figures of the sort to which my noble friend refers. That is precisely why my right honourable friend the Prime Minister stressed the importance of having a credible transparent and independent inquiry to get to the bottom of what happened during the closing phases of the civil war and then addressing the situation so that it is possible on that basis to move forward with reconciliation to a shared understanding of what the future might be like. Until that has happened, it is very hard to work out how there can be reconciliation that will last.
Lord Sutherland of Houndwood (CB)
My Lords, it is clearly good that the Prime Minister’s visit to the north had the impact that it did in the wider world and among the Tamil community in the north. Will the Leader of the House tell us anything about how this was reported elsewhere in Sri Lanka, where perhaps sympathies were rather different? It is important that there is impact there as well.
Lord Hill of Oareford
I fear that I have not seen any other coverage of how it was reported in Sri Lanka. Obviously my friends at the Foreign Office and so on will have done. I am sure that they spend their days doing that and other productive things. Oh dear, I can feel that my briefing is now going to dry up on me.
On the point that some of the world’s press were able to go there, I saw the transcript of the press conference that my right honourable friend the Prime Minister gave on, I think, the Saturday morning, which had representatives of the press from both Sri Lanka and the rest of the world. That gave the opportunity for a wide range of people to report honestly and openly on what went on.
Lord Wills (Lab)
My Lords, perhaps I may ask the Minister to be a little clearer about what the Government are going to do to persuade the Commonwealth to take action to mitigate the very real damage that will be done to the credibility of the Commonwealth and the charter signed only this year, with all its emphasis on human rights, if the Government of Sri Lanka are to carry on representing the Commonwealth in international forums for the next two years. The Prime Minister did a good job, and I congratulate him on all his work on behalf of human rights in Sri Lanka on his visit, but it is clear that the regime has ignored him, just as it has ignored all representations in the past and clearly intends to ignore all such representations in the future. It is crucial that the Commonwealth takes such action to mitigate the damage that this regime will do to the credibility of the Commonwealth. What will the Government do about that?
Lord Hill of Oareford
I will be brief because I think the essence of that question was raised by the noble Baroness, Lady Royall of Blaisdon. It is something that the whole Commonwealth is going to have to do. The noble Lord asks what the British Government are going to do. We are only one of 53 members and the institution operates by consensus.
My earlier answer was that we will seek to work through that body by emphasising at every possible opportunity, as we did again in Colombo, through the Commonwealth charter, that these values are important and need to be upheld. I do not have a magic wand to wave, much as I would like to, because I share the views expressed by the noble Lord, Lord Wills. I cannot say that we can simply do A, B and C and that it will all work in the way that we would like.
Business of the House
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Lord Hill of Oareford
That Standing Order 46 (No two stages of a Bill to be taken on one day) be dispensed with on Tuesday 19 November to allow the High Speed Rail (Preparation) Bill to be taken through all its remaining stages that day.
Business of the House
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Lord Hill of Oareford
That the debate on the motion in the name of Lord Dobbs set down for today shall be limited to 3 hours and that in the name of Lord Faulks to 2 hours.
Israel and Palestine
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The Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster (Lord Hill of Oareford) (Con)
There is plenty of time. If we can go to the Cross Benches then we will come to the noble Lord, Lord Grocott.
Lord Stoddart of Swindon
Does the noble Lord agree that one of the greatest provocations between Israel and the Palestinians is the building on occupied land by the Israelis in direct contravention of the United Nations resolutions banning such building?
Personal Service Companies Committee
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Lord Hill of Oareford
That it is desirable that a Select Committee be appointed to consider the consequences of the use of personal service companies for tax collection, and to make recommendations, and that the Committee do report by 31 March 2014.
Business of the House
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Lord Hill of Oareford
That the debate on the motion in the name of Baroness Quin set down for today shall be limited to three hours and that in the name of Baroness Prosser to two hours.
EU Council
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The Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster (Lord Hill of Oareford) (Con)
My Lords, with the leave of the House, I will now repeat a Statement made in another place by my right honourable friend the Prime Minister. The Statement is as follows.
“In the past 24 hours the country has been hit by one of the worst storms for many years. I know that the thoughts of the whole House will be with the families and friends of the four people we know have lost their lives. I am sure the House will join me in paying tribute to our emergency services and to all those who have been working to clear up the debris and get our transport system moving again. All the agencies involved are working as fast as possible to get things back to normal.
Let me turn to last week’s European Council. The key subjects under discussion were business regulation, competitiveness and monetary union. We also discussed migration policy, following the Lampedusa tragedy, and the importance of the EU’s Eastern Partnership, specifically with respect to Ukraine. So the background to this Council was the state of the European economy.
There is no doubt that the outlook is better than it has been, and particularly here in Britain where Friday’s figures showed the fastest growth for three years. My aim at this Council was to do everything possible to enhance the prospects of a sustained, balanced recovery here in the UK. We made good progress on three areas in particular: cutting red tape; promoting trade and the completion of the single market in digital and services; and protecting British interests as the eurozone integrates further.
Let me briefly say a word about each. First, on cutting red tape, Britain’s Business Task Force produced an excellent report which was endorsed by a hundred European businesses. I chaired a meeting bringing members of the Business Task Force together with President Barroso and the leaders of Germany, Sweden, Italy, Poland, Finland, Estonia and the Netherlands. These countries representing all parts of Europe and all political traditions agreed on the need to make more progress in cutting regulation and helping businesses across Europe to create jobs, and the strong language adopted in the communiqué by all EU member states reflects this. It calls for rapid implementation of REFIT, the Commission’s own bureaucracy-cutting initiative, and a proper scorecard to measure exactly how much regulation is being cut. Deregulation is now part of the EU agenda in a way that it simply has not been before.
Secondly, on trade, we welcomed the conclusion of the EU-Canada trade deal. This new deal could be worth £1.3 billion to the British economy, with estimates suggesting British exports to Canada could go up by as much as a fifth. Last week’s agreement also means we can now move the focus on to the EU-US talks which we began at the G8 in Lough Erne. There were some attempts to link this potential US trade deal with concerns over US intelligence, but the Council rejected this idea.
Turning to the digital single market, once again the commitment was made to complete this by 2015, potentially boosting growth by as much as 4% of the EU’s total GDP. As Britain is a world leader in e-commerce, this is very much in our interests. We made good progress at the Council on issues like portability of data, e-identification, e-invoicing and payment services and an EU-wide copyright regime for the digital age, but we also agreed not to rush ahead with the data protection directive on an artificial timetable because the current draft has disproportionate burdens on small business and they need to be removed. In terms of the services directive, we agreed that it was time to look at a new sector-by-sector approach rather than just trying to remove all the outstanding barriers to free trade in services in one go—a process that has stalled in recent years.
Thirdly, on defending Britain’s interests, as I have argued repeatedly, the European Union is changing and the eurozone needs more integration and co-ordination. But Britain is not in the single currency, and we are not going to be, so we should not have to take part in these additional bits of co-ordination, whether they cover economic or social policy. So while members of the eurozone agreed to even more intrusive policy co-ordination, including on social policy, I was clear that Britain will not take part. This is reflected in the communiqué which says that all changes are voluntary for those countries not in the single currency.
On the tragedy at Lampedusa, we agreed the next stages of the work of Frontex, which is responsible for trying to stop people coming to the EU in the first place, but we rejected the idea that there should be additional burden-sharing for so-called ‘front-line states’, not least because, if you look at the figures, Britain, France, Germany, Belgium and Sweden between us received almost 70% of asylum applications recorded in the EU in the past 12 months. What is most important of all is helping to stop the problems at their source. The UK will continue to play a leading role in this: for example, through support for border security in Libya and the focus of our development assistance on helping countries that are at risk of instability. On the Eastern Partnership we agreed that countries which look towards Europe for support, such as Ukraine, should be free to enter into agreement with us while, of course, continuing to insist on proper standards of governance and justice that such a relationship should entail.
Finally, because of the recent controversies there was much discussion about the role of intelligence agencies. We agreed a statement signed as Heads of Government—because there is no EU competence in this area and nor should there be—that said European countries and America should have a relationship based on trust and that damage had been done by recent revelations. The UK has a very strong, long-standing trust-based relationship with the US, not least as part of the Five Eyes partnership together with Canada, Australia and New Zealand. In terms of our own intelligence services, we have a long-standing tradition that we do not comment on intelligence matters. We have parliamentary scrutiny of our intelligence agencies through the Intelligence and Security Committee and we have strengthened that oversight. Our agencies operate under the law and their work is overseen by Intelligence Commissioners. Of course, as technology develops and the threats we face evolve, so we need to make sure that the scrutiny and frameworks in place remain strong and effective. But we have every reason to be proud of our intelligences services and the way in which they are properly constituted in our country.
Since 2000, we have seen serious attempts at major acts of terrorism in Britain typically once or twice a year and, since 9/11, 330 people have been convicted in our courts—here in the UK—of terrorism-related offences. This year alone, there were major trials related to plots, including plans for a 7/7-style attack with rucksack bombs, two plots to kill soldiers and a failed attempt to attack an English Defence League march using an array of lethal weapons. There were guilty pleas in each case and 24 terrorists were convicted and sentenced to more than 260 years in jail. I quote these figures to demonstrate the scale of terrorist threats still facing this country.
Our intelligence has also allowed us to warn our EU allies about terrorist plots aimed at their people, cyberattacks on their businesses and infrastructure and attempts in their own states illegally to traffick drugs, people, arms and money. Our intelligence officers serve our country without any public recognition. Some have given their lives in this service and yet their names are not known and their loved ones must mourn in secret. We owe them, and every intelligence officer in our country, an enormous debt of gratitude. These silent heroes and heroines are keeping our country safe. They deserve our wholehearted support. I commend this Statement to the House”.
My Lords, that concludes the Statement.
Lord Hill of Oareford
My Lords, I am grateful to the noble Baroness the Leader of the Opposition for her remarks about the efforts being made by the emergency services and various companies to respond to the effects of the storm. I am not able to give her precise figures, but they are working flat out to help people caught out by the storm. I agree very much with what she said about our intelligence services. It is important that there should be rigorous oversight. We have that and it is right that we should do so.
On the subject of timing in relation to trade and Canada, the significant decisions on the deal have been taken so we are not expecting it to take long to resolve the remaining issues. I cannot give a precise timetable for the EU-US talks. The potential benefits of such a deal are, obviously, far greater than the EU-Canada deal. There was some possibility of an attempt to slow down the timetable for the EU-US talks at the European Council. That was resisted and the focus will now switch to trying to make progress on it.
There is a fair bit of detail in the communiqué about what was achieved on digital services. The real impetus of the Council was in terms of the digital single market, on which a number of conclusions were reached. It is very much in our interests that we make progress on that. We have a very active e-commerce sector which we need to capitalise on. There was a restatement of the timetables and an agreement to refocus efforts to make progress.
On the data protection directive, as the noble Baroness said, it is clearly the case that proper concerns about data protection must be addressed. There was no agreement to the earlier timetable which we sought because of concern about the cost which might be inflicted, particularly on small businesses—estimated at up to £300 million—by the over-early implementation of such a directive before the details were thrashed out. The position reached was to work on that—not to resile from it but to try and make sure that, when it is introduced, we do not have an unforeseen effect on small business.
There was significant progress made on regulation, not just here but reflecting a continuing process whereby the UK, working with its allies, is trying to shift the emphasis in a more deregulatory direction. This relates, in a way, to the noble Baroness’s final question about what difference this summit has made. The work of our own business task force contributes to that, as does the work the Commission itself is doing through the REFIT initiative, working in tandem with it.
As the noble Baroness says, there is good regulation which can increase competition, and there is regulation which harms prospects for employment or growth. We all agree that the urgent priority at the moment is to make sure we have economic growth across Europe so that more people can benefit from it, particularly the young. I know that the noble Baroness is concerned about youth unemployment. We all want to see much faster progress but, since the general election, the total number of young unemployed people has fallen by nearly 80,000. Our level is below the EU average and below that of France and of Italy. We have been creating more training opportunities, which are part of the solution. The noble Baroness will know that the number of apprenticeships has grown enormously: we have doubled the number and this is also part of the solution. The 1.4 million private sector jobs created since the general election are also helping. Altogether, the number of NEETs is now the lowest it has been for a decade. There is obviously an awful lot more work to do and ultimately the process starts with what goes on in schools, where we must try and make sure our young people have the skills they need to equip themselves for the growing number of available jobs.
Lord Alderdice (LD)
My Lords, I would like to identify these Benches with the condolences to those who have been bereaved, the sympathy for the injured and the appreciation of the tremendous efforts being made by the emergency services in dealing with results of the storm.
I thank my noble friend for repeating the Statement made in another place by the Prime Minister. Much of it encourages me. I am encouraged to see improvements in our own economy and more widely. Thoughtful and appropriate deregulation is a useful step forward, although we have to be careful. Wider trade deals are bound to be very welcome, and that with Canada, with which we have such a long and friendly relationship, is particularly so, both for itself and for what it may lead to in the rest of North America.
I am also encouraged by developments on the e-commerce front although, as the Statement made clear, we have to be careful as it also opens opportunities for e-crime. I rather suspect that your Lordships’ House will have to face rather complex legislation over the next few years to deal with many aspects of this. It will not be easy because it will be a challenge for all of us to know exactly what we are legislating about in this area and to keep up with the changes.
I am encouraged by the clear statement that the way to deal with immigration problems is not to create a fortress Europe but to address the needs and problems of the countries from which people flee. They do not come because they are happy in their own countries: they come because they do not have a good future there. We have to try to help them improve on that.
Coming from my part of the United Kingdom, I have a particular perspective and a deep appreciation of the work that the intelligence services have done for us over many years in ensuring that our community did not fall apart and that we were able to engage later in a peace process. The intelligence services do important work for us and it is silent work at its best.
However, one part of the Statement gave me a little cause for concern. It was what the Prime Minister said in respect of countries outside the European Union and the eastern partnership. He said that we continue,
“to insist on proper standards of governance and justice that such a relationship should entail”.
Our right honourable friend the Prime Minister is right about that but in one country within the EU, Hungary, those standards of governance and justice simply do not apply any more, and it has been getting worse for a number of years. Sadly, this has been happening under the prime ministership of Viktor Orban. I knew him many years ago when he was, as he still is, the leader of Fidesz—in those days the young liberals. He was, like me, a vice-president of Liberal International and we served together on the officers’ board. I well remember the first thing that he did. Fidesz, because it consisted of young liberals, had a rule whereby when you were over 30 you had to resign and join the Alliance of Free Democrats. What did Viktor do? When he reached 30 he changed the rules, which has been and still represents one of his characteristics. When the rules tend to take away some of his power, he simply changes the rules. I remember well a meeting of the committee of Liberal International when he walked out and said that he was going to join a more conservative group. That is what he did and he has produced a more authoritarian country. My concern is that the Prime Minister entertained him in Downing Street this month before the European Council and friendly photographs are being used by Mr Orban in Hungary to show that this country is supportive of him. I seek a reassurance from my noble friend that the Prime Minister is pressing Mr Orban to address the real problems of authoritarianism, anti-immigration and the destruction of European values in that important part of the European Union.
Lord Hill of Oareford
My Lords, I shall not resist the temptation to say that my noble friend has highlighted some of the dangers of joining the young liberals. I know that he makes a serious point about his concerns.
I am grateful for his support for the Statement more generally. I am sure that many will have heard his remarks about Hungary. As with all EU member states, Hungary is subject to clear obligations and has to adhere fully to the laws and values of the Union. I am sure my noble friend knows that earlier this year the Commission launched a detailed review to ensure that newly introduced legislation in Hungary was brought into line with accepted EU standards. I understand that Hungary has engaged with the Commission on that review and is making changes to its constitution that have addressed many of the concerns. We welcome Hungary’s engagement with the Commission on areas that fall within EU competence.
Lord Davies of Stamford (Lab)
My Lords, the noble Lord, Lord Alderdice, quite rightly was given a lot of scope because what he said about Hungary was well said. The progress on deregulation at the summit and the decision not artificially to hold up the progress of the US-EU trade negotiations are welcome. They will of course take a long time anyway. Is the noble Lord aware of any member state other than the United Kingdom which has made a public statement that on a permanent basis it will not join the banking union that is being put together? Is he aware of the substantial evidence presented to your Lordships’ Sub-Committee A by a series of witnesses and experts to the effect that if we remain outside the banking union our financial services industry will have an increasing handicap competitively over a number of years and we will end up paying a significant economic price for doing that?
Lord Hill of Oareford
I am grateful to the noble Lord for what he said about progress on regulation. We keep chipping away at this and there has been progress. The fact that seven countries joined the UK in lending support to the report produced by the British Business Task Force shows that there has been a shift. The Prime Minister has been working hard in that respect, particularly with Chancellor Merkel. I am also grateful to the noble Lord for what he said about how vital the EU-US talks are. I understand the noble Lord’s views on banking union. Obviously, the Government take a different view and their position has not changed as a result of the recent European Council.
Lord Tugendhat (Con)
My Lords, I, too, associate myself with what has been said about the emergency services and the intelligence services. I was encouraged by what my noble friend said about the deregulation agenda. In particular, I noted that the Prime Minister had chaired a meeting that brought together the leaders of a number of countries with President Barroso. There is of course a big difference between countries agreeing on the need for deregulation in general and agreeing on what precisely should be deregulated. Can my noble friend enlighten the House—if he cannot do so now, perhaps he can in some other way—as to the degree of agreement on the range of regulations and directives that ought to be repealed?
Lord Hill of Oareford
I am not sure that I can enlighten the House on a huge amount of detail but there are two strands to what the Prime Minister and those who agree with him in the EU are seeking to achieve. One is that the Commission has its own process under the REFIT programme that my noble friend will know about, which is coming up with a series of regulations, measures and so on that it thinks could be repealed, not introduced or otherwise revised. That is a Commission-led process. Alongside that, the Prime Minister has been working with British business, and the British Business Task Force has been working with European businesses, to come up with suggestions from a business perspective regarding further changes that could be made. A twin-track process is going on. One track is led by the Commission and, in the other, Britain with its allies is trying to take forward this issue of how one can have the right amount of regulation that will not hold back economic growth, which is our priority, and get that balance right.
Lord Deben (Con)
Does my noble friend agree that the opposition Front Bench was a little curmudgeonly in the second part of its response on youth unemployment, given that this Government have done remarkably well on unemployment during a very difficult time? Was it not also true that his Statement showed just how important it is for Britain to be a full member of the European Union? None of these things would have happened in the way they have and to the degree they have had not the Prime Minister taken an active part. Is it not time that people stopped complaining about the European Union and in fact spent their time improving it in the way in which the Prime Minister is clearly doing?
Lord Hill of Oareford
My Lords, I would never—although perhaps I might occasionally—accuse the noble Baroness, Lady Royall, of being curmudgeonly. My noble friend is quite right about what has been achieved in terms of generating jobs generally and the improving trend of economic figures that we are beginning to see. There is much more to do but there has definitely been progress. He is also right about what has been done to tackle youth unemployment. On his broader point, the Prime Minister has demonstrated that it is possible both to argue strongly for Britain’s national interests and to build alliances with other similar-minded countries in Europe to bring about change for the common good. The issue is sometimes presented as a false dichotomy, whereby if you argue for Britain’s national interests you jeopardise your influence within Europe and you either have to go with the consensus or become an outist. The Prime Minister has set out that one can argue very strongly from within the EU for what is in the interests of the whole of Europe as well as Britain.
Lord Phillips of Sudbury (LD)
My Lords, will my noble friend say a word more about trust in politics as he very wisely referred to it early on in the Statement. It seems to many here today that there is a slow but very worrying creep of disaffection across Europe with democratic politics. There can be no more signal demonstration of the cynicism that exists in some parts of the political establishment at the very highest levels than the bugging of the phone of Angela Merkel. I suspect that tens of millions of people will have noticed that who do not notice much else—good things—about the world they live in.
My question is this—I apologise if it is a question that cannot elicit a direct reply. Is there any consequence to that extraordinary event? It must have been a criminal offence in Germany and in the United States. Is there any accountability for what happened?
Lord Hill of Oareford
My Lords, I will make two points in response. First, my noble friend is right to point to a growing disaffection across Europe with the institutions and processes of the European Union. One of the things that many people are trying to work for is to bring the work of the Union more into contact with the everyday concerns of the citizens of Europe and overcome this growing democratic deficit as people call it. That is something that my right honourable friend the Prime Minister would say he is seeking to pursue by arguing against measures that would affect British businesses, choke off growth and all the rest of it.
Regarding the point about telephones, as my noble friend knows, he will not tempt me to comment in any detail on the work of our intelligence services. The leaders at the Council issued a statement after a great deal of thought in connection with the issue he raised and that has set out a way and a process in which the French and the Germans will talk to the Americans about what may or may not have gone on.
Lord Brooke of Sutton Mandeville (Con)
My Lords, paragraph 10 of the European Council conclusions that accompanied this Statement stated that the EU was in 2011 faced with 300,000 unfilled vacancies in the ICT sector. It added that if this trend was not checked there could be 900,000 unfilled vacancies in the sector by 2015. Could my noble friend contemplate covering a domestic omission in this Statement by putting in the Library a breakdown of the UK’s statistics within these EU-wide figures?
Lord Hill of Oareford
I am afraid, my Lords, I do not know the basis for the calculation made by the EU and whether it was based on data drawn from individual member states. If there are any data I can find I will, of course, let my noble friend have them, but I cannot say with any certainty what the basis of that calculation was.
Lord Flight (Con)
My Lords, I cannot entirely agree with the comment of the noble Lord, Lord Davies, that Sub-Committee A was of the view that the UK would suffer if it did not join the banking union. The point was surely that the body to which the ECB is accountable has a voting structure and if virtually all EU members did end up joining the banking union, theoretically it would then be possible for it to tell the UK what to do. In the negotiations over the banking union this country should ensure that the independence of banking policy is safe.
Lord Hill of Oareford
I completely understand the points that my noble friend makes. Those are very alive in the minds of our Ministers and officials negotiating this because they are keen to safeguard the position that my noble friend sets out very clearly.
Lord Marlesford (Con)
My Lords, I was very glad to see in the Statement the sentence:
“Deregulation is now part of the EU agenda in a way that it simply has not been before”.
I noted the distinguished membership of the meeting chaired by the Prime Minister on the Business Task Force report, including President Barroso and the leading countries in Europe. There was a startling and very prominent absence from that list of countries, which was France. Would I be right in thinking that part of the reason for France’s absence is that it does not share our approach on this matter at all? The biggest single bit of business regulation—and I would argue the most unjustified—that the French go in for is the 35-hour week, which is policed by a mixture of inspection and denunciation, which must be very bad for the business sector in France. Perhaps, in that sense, a bit of schadenfreude might be in order, but I do not express it. I say that it is wrong that the EU, if it means anything on these matters, should have such an example of business regulation.
Lord Hill of Oareford
My noble friend is right that the French approach things differently from us. When he talks of schadenfreude, the point to which I would refer him is the fact the Germans were there at the Prime Minister’s launch. Those who have, like my noble friend, studied the dynamic within Europe over a very long period of time would recognise the relationship between the UK and Germany. The work that my right honourable friend the Prime Minister has put into trying to strengthen that relationship is an important part of helping to counterbalance some of the views held by other member states to which my noble friend refers.
Baroness Royall of Blaisdon
With the permission of the House, perhaps I may ask the noble Lord to comment on the contrast between the search for deregulation in the business sector, which in many ways we welcome, and the imposition of bureaucracy and red tape on charities, trade unions and the voluntary sector in the Transparency of Lobbying, Non-Party Campaigning and Trade Union Administration Bill?
Lord Hill of Oareford
As the noble Baroness would expect me to say, these are different matters. I refute her point that the proposals on charities in the Bill would be as intrusive and destructive as the kinds of regulatory burdens that are operating in some ways within Europe, which we seek to remove. Like the noble Baroness, what one always wants is a proportionate approach in all areas.
Business of the House
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Lord Hill of Oareford
That the debates on the Motions in the names of Lord Shipley and Lord Greaves set down for today shall each be limited to 2½ hours.
Energy: Long-term Supply
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Lord Spicer (Con)
My Lords, I declare an interest listed in the parliamentary register, and ask this question.
The Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster (Lord Hill of Oareford) (Con)
My Lords, forgive me. It is Labour’s turn for a question.
Lord Grocott
Given that the Prime Minister and the Chancellor have frequently expressed concern about the influence of the left and, as they describe it, “Marxist policies” in Britain, what would be their attitude of the involvement of a communist country in our energy supply industry?
Business of the House
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Lord Hill of Oareford
That the debates on the motions in the names of Baroness Meacher and Lord Luce set down for today shall each be limited to 2½ hours.