Immigration: Deportation of Iraqis

Lord Howell of Guildford Excerpts

Tuesday 22nd June 2010 Lords Chamber

[Lord Dholakia]

To ask Her Majesty’s Government whether they will suspend the deportation of Iraqis until the fate of those already deported is known.

[The Minister of State, Foreign and Commonwealth Office (Lord Howell of Guildford)]

My Lords, we have been informed by the Iraqi authorities that all those returned on 9 June have been released following routine identity checks. Of the 42 returnees on the flight of 16 June, 30 have been released and the remaining 12 are expected to be released soon. There are no plans to suspend enforced returns to Iraq, but we will continue to monitor the situation.

[Lord Dholakia]

My Lords, I thank my noble friend for that Answer. Amnesty International, the UNHCR and refugee organisations in this country are seriously concerned about the enforced deportation of failed asylum seekers. The UK Border Agency uses the in-country report that has identified at least five areas where there will be serious repercussions if deportees are sent there. In the light of what has been said, and bearing in mind the extent of violence being used in deporting people, will the Minister investigate precisely what happened in relation to those 42 deportees? Will he establish a system of monitoring to ensure that in future we know the fate of people? In the mean time, is not a moratorium necessary?

[Lord Howell of Guildford]

My Lords, I am grateful to the noble Lord. I am advised that the UK Border Agency’s professional standards unit is investigating what occurred on these occasions. There is no evidence of mistreatment: indeed, senior UK Border Agency officials were on the flight and saw everything that happened. We are satisfied that the position is being investigated and we believe that we should continue with both voluntary and enforced returns of those for whom no further protection is needed here.

[Lord Alton of Liverpool]

My Lords, will the Minister accept that members of religious minority groups such as the Chaldeans and the Yazidis who have been sent back to Iraq have faced assassination and kidnappings? Will he explain to the House what motivated his department to set to one side the evidence of the UNHCR and its statement, referred to by the noble Lord, Lord Dholakia, that at present it is not safe to return such people to Iraq?

[Lord Howell of Guildford]

There is a disagreement over this because the procedure we have employed is to study individuals case by case, each on its merits. We take extreme care to ensure that no mistreatment occurs—or if it does occur it is investigated. The UNHCR is starting from a different viewpoint: it is looking at the overall return of Iraqis from all over Europe, including from this country. It is looking at some of the central regions of Iraq, which are extremely dangerous. Most of our returnees go to Kurdistan where they are safe. Therefore, we are satisfied that it is safe for those who are here illegally, or are failed asylum seekers, or are convicted criminals, to be returned to the country from which they come.

[Lord Eden of Winton]

My Lords, while watching the fate of those deported to Iraq, will my noble friend keep a careful watch on those Iraqis who are incarcerated in Ashraf city inside Iraq to ensure that any who are forcibly moved from that location are pursued with the same vigour as he is demonstrating in this case?

[Lord Howell of Guildford]

My Lords, I can reassure my noble friend that we are watching that situation very carefully. Obviously, our powers are limited, as are our powers over the Iraqi Government, who are a sovereign Government of a respected nation who we want to see recover, treat and deal with those returning to their country. They are entitled to their own procedures. However, as regards the Ashraf issue, which is a very difficult one, we will watch the matter very closely indeed.

[Lord Dubs]

My Lords, does the Minister agree that the concerns about the safety and well-being of Iraqis returned to Iraq is not simply related to what happens to them at the airport but whether their long-term safety can be assured? What steps are the Government taking to monitor the long-term safety of the people they have returned?

[Lord Howell of Guildford]

The answer is that we monitor it as closely as we possible can. The noble Lord will appreciate that there are bound to be some limitations on the detailed monitoring and tracking of every individual, but through the UK Border Agency and its standard procedures we seek to track the situation as closely as possible.

[Baroness Afshar]

My Lords, is it not the case that in the absence of the close monitoring of returnees, the UNHCR is one of the few organisations that is sufficiently well connected to follow up where people go, particularly in Kurdistan which is highly divided on a tribal basis and where it is almost impossible for any foreign agency to have enough information unless it comes internally? The inability to follow what happens to individuals who are returned means that all kinds of blood feuds that might have been quietened during the person’s absence rekindle and begin again. We need to know that there is long-term security for people who have sought asylum in this country.

[Lord Howell of Guildford]

Of course we appreciate the very difficult history of Kurdistan and the rest of Iraq, but it is the judgment of the agency and of the independent courts that, at this time, the signs are that Kurdistan is coming together more, that it is a less unstable country, that there is evidence of growth, peace and development and that it is safe to return people who no longer need our protection and should not have been here in the first place.

[Lord Avebury]

My Lords, my noble friend the Minister has mentioned Kurdistan twice. Am I correct in saying that of the 42 people on the recent flight which has been the subject of adverse publicity, 36 were Kurds, and the reason why they were sent back to Pakistan was the temporary suspension of flights to Erbil by the Kurdish regional authorities? Will my noble friend ask the Foreign Office to make inquiries as to why the KRG suspended deportations to Erbil, and will he attempt to get the resumption of those flights, as otherwise people of Kurdish origin will find themselves stranded in Baghdad and unable to get home?

[Lord Howell of Guildford]

My noble friend is absolutely right: normally, the majority of Kurds would have gone straight to Erbil. We have already asked why those flights were suspended and how they can be resumed at an early stage. In the mean time, the deportees were going through Baghdad and then on to Erbil. That is why some of them were delayed. It appears that although they were given money, they said that they did not have the resources to pay for the further flight. My noble friend is absolutely right: it is to Kurdistan that the majority were destined.

Sudan: Human Rights

Lord Howell of Guildford Excerpts

Thursday 10th June 2010 Lords Chamber

[Lord Chidgey]

To ask Her Majesty’s Government what is their response to reports of human rights abuses by state organisations in the run-up to the recent elections in Sudan.

[The Minister of State, Foreign and Commonwealth Office (Lord Howell of Guildford)]

My Lords, the United Kingdom is deeply concerned about human rights abuses committed in the run-up to and during the elections in Sudan. This period saw reports of violations of political rights and freedoms, including harassment, intimidation, arbitrary arrest, detention and alleged torture. There have been worrying signs of a further crackdown by the authorities since the elections, including the recent arrest of an opposition politician. We continue to urge the Government of Sudan to address these concerns.

[Lord Chidgey]

I am very grateful to the noble Lord for that reply. Perhaps I may add to his comments the fact that recent laws passed in Sudan allow Sudanese security forces to arrest people and hold them for 45 days without review and with immunity from any charge for abuses which might take place during that time. As he mentioned, there has been the arrest of a senior opposition leader, Hassan al-Turabi, on rather spurious charges, together with the arrest of a leading editor from the Rai al-Shaab newspaper, Mr Abuzerr Ali al-Amin. Will he assure the House that the Government will take every measure that they can in the international call for the reform of these repressive laws in Sudan and for holding to account those responsible for the charges of torture?

[Lord Howell of Guildford]

My Lords, I can only endorse the grim catalogue that my noble friend outlines. It is absolutely so. We will continue to use all pressures we can and to urge the Government of the Sudan back to a better path in their human rights performance. The outlook is not good and there are obviously many major concerns ahead in dealing not only—as we all know—with the continuing horrors of Darfur, but with the potential instabilities arising from the forthcoming referendum in the south. We continue to want the comprehensive peace agreement to work; that must be our main focus.

[Lord Anderson of Swansea]

My Lords, Concordis, the Christian reconciliation organisation of which I am a patron, has just run two workshops in Upper Nile and Unity provinces. It tells me that there is a marked lack of international organisation presence on the ground and a real danger that there will be conflict arising from boundary demarcation disputes since the CPA is mapping the area from the air without discussing with local communities their views on the border. Will the Minister look into this? To what extent is he happy with the lack of engagement by the international community in the process leading up to the referendum?

[Lord Howell of Guildford]

The noble Lord makes a very good point, which I will certainly feed into our thinking. As to international involvement in helping with the process leading up to the referendum and thereafter in managing its results, much more clearly is needed. We are doing our bit. We are increasing our staff in Juba, for instance. Our eye is very much on the ball about this, but we want others to work as well. We want to encourage UNMIS to get more involved and we have several other proposals for increasing our input. No one should for a moment assume that there will not be a very difficult situation, whichever way the referendum goes. Of course, there are wide forecasts that it will go in favour of some kind of autonomy.

[Lord Avebury]

My Lords, first, regarding UNMIS, does the Minister think that additional troops will be necessary to safeguard the referendum process, bearing in mind the violence that occurred in the recent elections? Secondly, does he think that satisfactory voting arrangements were in place for the disputed border areas in the recent elections? If not, what additional measures would he recommend should be taken before the referendum?

[Lord Howell of Guildford]

On the noble Lord’s second question, I am afraid that there do appear to have been abuses in those and many other areas, and these matters will need to be monitored and safeguarded very carefully—more so than in the past. On the question of additional troops, by which I assume he means reinforcements for UNMIS, that is a difficult matter at the moment. We want some means by which the weak Government of Southern Sudan can somehow be strengthened in order to prepare for the enormous strains that lie ahead either way, whether the referendum goes for separation or not. Either way seems to point to more violence, danger and abuses.

[The Lord Bishop of Gloucester]

My Lords, given that the Governments of both north and south Sudan have little control of the country outside the few conurbations, and that the only organisations with an effective network across the whole of Sudan are the Roman Catholic and Episcopal churches, what plans might Her Majesty’s Government have to encourage both Sudanese Governments to link with the churches in order to build stability and peace prior to the referendum?

[Lord Howell of Guildford]

I am grateful to the right reverend Prelate. In all our urgings and advice, we take account of those important factors and will continue to do so.

[Lord Lawson of Blaby]

My Lords, may I recommend to my noble friend, who I am delighted to see has taken this very important post in the Government—it is well deserved—a recently published book called War Games by a distinguished Dutch woman journalist who is extremely experienced in this area? She demonstrates how many if not most humanitarian NGOs operating in this area are actually assisting in the repression and the inhuman activities that are taking place, without intending to. He may like to read it if he has time.

[Lord Howell of Guildford]

I thank my noble friend for his kind remarks and for his advice on my reading list. I will do my best. A number of insightful and valuable studies have been made into the effects—some good and some bad—of the various activities and intentions both of the non-governmental organisations, which are full of dedicated people, and indeed even of Governments, who sometimes, in thinking that their efforts will help, encounter all sorts of side-effects and consequences which had not been reckoned with.

[The Earl of Sandwich]

My Lords, given the involvement of the Chinese Government in Sudan—particularly in the oil industry—and remembering what was said in the debate yesterday, what early contact is the Foreign Office going to make with the Chinese, and will they be asked to co-operate in the preparations for the referendum?

[Lord Howell of Guildford]

We have contact with the Chinese about this and the more general question of the degree to which they should carry responsibility for matters like human rights in difficult areas where they are very active in investment terms. There is no doubt that Chinese oil interests and the money associated with them in Sudan are a factor. We have talked to them. Our Chinese colleagues are reluctant to take a forward position and their doctrine is non-interference in local affairs, but actually they do face some responsibilities and, as we point out to them, will have to adjust to them in due course.

Zimbabwe

Lord Howell of Guildford Excerpts

Thursday 10th June 2010 Lords Chamber

[The Minister of State, Foreign and Commonwealth Office (Lord Howell of Guildford)]

My Lords, this has been a debate rich in expertise and knowledge of the Zimbabwean situation, the like of which is not replicated in any other forum, in this country or elsewhere, and certainly not in any other legislature. An enormous range of expert comments and questions have been raised. It would be physically impossible for me to answer every single one in the 20 minutes allotted but I shall try answer a great many of them. Most of them it would be possible to answer, but not in 20 minutes. I shall simply do my best.

I, too, begin by thanking the noble Lord, Lord St John of Bletso, for the opportunity to have this excellent debate. Secondly, I echo what other noble Lords have said about our sadly departed friends: my very good friend Lord Blaker and the wonderful lady, Lady Daphne Park, who made huge contributions and played huge parts in our discussions of Zimbabwe over the years. I thank also the opposition spokesman, the noble Baroness, Lady Symons, and the former opposition spokesman, the noble Lord, Lord Triesman, with whom I have debated over the years. Indeed, I began to feel that this was a kind of “This is your Life” debate as comments from the past arose. We have been looking at these matters together for almost a decade and I hope that our joint contribution will carry forward understanding and create an effective policy on these matters in the future.

I asked officials in my department, the Foreign and Commonwealth Office—as I believe should be the case when new government Ministers arrive—just why, looking forward, there is so much concern and interest—and what are the interests of our nation—in the developments in Zimbabwe? Whatever the links of the past—of which we must be aware—I asked the crude question: “Where do we go from here? What is the importance for our nation of what is happening in Zimbabwe?”. Their answer was very clear: it is directly in our national interests that this major African country of wonderful potential should become again within the region a zone of law, justice, peace and democracy, and of the economic prosperity which goes with those things and which tends to disappear if they are absent. When I say “democracy”, I mean the word in the deepest, broadest and wisest sense, not in the superficial way in which it is sometimes interpreted around the world, including, I am sad to say, even within this country.

The Government intend to do everything they can to support the aspirations of the Zimbabwean people for a prosperous and stable Zimbabwe. Their objective and ours is to overcome the years of misrule and bring back Zimbabwe once more to its place as a beacon of hope for Africa’s future and as a land of plenty as it once was.

In my allotted time, I want first to deal with the precise questions that noble Lords have raised with great insight and effectiveness—although I shall not be able to deal with them all—and then to make some broader comments which, in turn, will cover some of the issues that noble Lords have raised.

The noble Lord who introduced the debate made an interesting speech. He described himself as an optimist. We all want to be optimistic about the future but it is very hard in some cases. There is much wrong and much to fear and worry about still in Zimbabwe, but that is the right stance. He asked about the International Criminal Court and whether it could, as it were, catch Mr Mugabe. I am advised that as Zimbabwe is not a signatory to the Rome statute—that is the ICC statute—he can be referred to the ICC only by Security Council resolution. I think that that is the right procedure, but if he were so referred, we would be in no position to protect Mr Mugabe from any of the consequences. That should be clear and on the record.

The noble Lord spoke equally effectively about the rights of women in Zimbabwe, a matter to which we should return again and again as we press for a better future for that country. The noble Lord had many other comments to make as well, which I shall cover in my general remarks.

My noble friend Lord Sheikh made a very fine speech about human rights in Africa, which should always be to the forefront of our thinking. Many of these areas are, as many noble Lords said, African matters for African solutions and they demand African action. However, it is our duty as a nation to help and support in every way we can.

My noble friend raised the diamond issue, as did other several other noble Lords. My noble friends Lord Avebury and Lord Chidgey and the noble Baroness, Lady Symons, all touched on it. We deplore the human rights abuses that were reported at the Marange mine and we will encourage our EU partners who lead in the Kimberley process to secure reform of the Zimbabwean diamond mining industry. That is all I can say on that at the moment, but behind those words are some strong intentions to ensure that the Kimberley process works.

The noble Lord, Lord Hughes, spoke about links and dialogue with South Africa. That is ongoing and continuous and regarded as urgent. Talks were held with the president when he visited here; there have been further and constant links with South African officials. There is a sense of urgency, but it must be balanced, as the noble Lord will be the first to recognise because he is expert in these fields, with a degree of timing, so that we do not stumble into giving advantages to those who do not wish well of Zimbabwe or want to prolong the present difficulties.

My noble friend Lord Avebury characteristically produced an enormous list of very expert insights and questions. I cannot answer them all, but he spoke about safeguards for electors in the moving of the constitutional process up to a referendum. These are things that we must watch for very carefully, and we shall do our very best to overcome, although it is not easy, some of the open and blatant abuses that have gone on in the past. There are some other questions on which I want to write to my noble friend. He raised, as did the noble Baroness, Lady Symons, the IMF report and engagement with the IMF, the World Bank and the African Development Bank on economic reform. We see that as critical, and are working to encourage and develop this engagement. The IMF has identified in its report a number of policy improvements to be made by the Government of Zimbabwe in order to move towards a staff-monitored programme. We hope that the IMF and the Government of Zimbabwe will work together to implement these changes. It is a very important report, and the procedures which could flow from it will be valuable as well.

The noble Lord, Lord Avebury, mentioned also the Commonwealth, a matter, as other noble Lords have been kind enough to observe, which is dear to my heart. Zimbabwe was a member of the Commonwealth; a time will come when the Commonwealth network, with its skills, its focus, its values and its practical help, will be able to play a vital part in the rebuilding of Zimbabwe. Of that, I am convinced. When that time comes, I cannot say at the moment, because I cannot see, as noble Lords cannot, exactly how matters will develop. But I am quite sure that the Commonwealth’s role in the future piecing together of Zimbabwe will be vital and leading.

The noble Lord, Lord Best, raised the interesting question of reskilling Zimbabweans in the Zimbabwean diaspora. We share the noble Lord’s wish to see Zimbabweans able to return home to contribute to the rebuilding of their country when the time is right. The noble Lord referred to the funds available to Zimbabweans who return home under the assisted voluntary return scheme, which includes funding that can be used for reskilling or setting up a business. I can tell him that officials are in discussion with the diaspora on how that can be made most useful, so I hope that that meets his very valid point.

The noble Lord, Lord Triesman, I think, raised a number of vital issues, among which was the issue of the UK people domiciled in Zimbabwe. We had a voluntary resettlement scheme, because I am advised that there are actually 12,000 British nationals in Zimbabwe—that seems a large number—most, it is said, long-established and self-sufficient. But I am quite sure that there are some difficult cases as well, and we must keep an eye on them. The voluntary resettlement scheme has now ended, I am advised, so I do not know whether it is operating to help those people. It is obviously an issue that we must watch very closely.

The noble Lord, Lord Chidgey, with his usual expertise, who also mentioned the diamond issue, turned to the whole question of rebuilding Zimbabwe and how investment confidence can be mobilised, and so on. I intend to make further comments on that in a few minutes, if the noble Lord will allow me.

The noble Earl, Lord Sandwich, mentioned the huge refugee problem, with literally millions of people housed or camped in South Africa as a result of the refugee exodus. These are very serious problems, which we are discussing with the South Africans all the time, and which will create more challenges in future that we have yet to solve. But we are very much aware of them.

The noble Baroness covered the broad sweep of these matters, as one would expect, and asked for a number of responses, which I think that I shall cover in the next few minutes before I close. She asked about HIV mortality; I have not got the answer and shall have to send that to her. Nor do I have a really detailed assessment, because it is not actually very clear, as to whether the 51 per cent ownership of projects or incoming investment is still valid, or whether it ever was—whether it was just a statement from President Mugabe and was never enacted in law. I do not know the details, but I shall supply them to the noble Baroness, because they are rather crucial in creating the atmosphere in which funds begin to flow into Zimbabwe again.

Having covered those areas, I shall address one or two more questions and put the matter in more general terms. The troubled history of Zimbabwe in recent years is very well known to your Lordships. It is also known that its essence is rotten governance and the collapse of prosperity, along with the appalling violence that characterised the elections of 2008. Like your Lordships, I am encouraged that there has been some progress on economic stabilisation since the formation of the inclusive Government last February following mediation by the Southern African Development Community—SADC. Thanks to the inclusive Government, Zimbabwe is for most people a safer and better place to live today than it was in 2008. Prime Minister Morgan Tsvangirai made a very brave decision to enter into an agreement for the sake of the Zimbabwean people. We should therefore do as much as we can to help make a success of the inclusive Government arrangements. That is not to say that Zimbabwe does not face continuous and enormous challenges, some of which are worsening, as we have heard. But at least the inclusive Government are there, even if they do not turn out to be the underpinning of the long-term solution that we all want to see.

There have been some successes, however, most notably in economic reform. Just over a year ago Zimbabwe faced the greatest hyperinflation in economic history, the shops were empty and productivity had collapsed. Now urban shops are full again and the IMF predicts modest growth of around 2.5 per cent this year—the sort of figure that we could do with here. Not everyone is in a position to benefit from this improvement, but economic regeneration has provided some local employment and enabled the Finance Ministry to benefit from modestly increased revenue. In recognition of the progress achieved in creating the conditions for greater macroeconomic stability under Finance Minister Tendai Biti, the UK supported the restoration of Zimbabwe’s voting rights at the IMF.

As noble Lords observed, a year ago our newspapers were full of horrors about the cholera epidemic when 4,000 people died. Now, thanks to the inclusive Government and the support of donors, including our own DfID, doctors, nurses and teachers are being paid and the schools and hospitals are open again. Donor efforts to improve sanitation have helped to avoid a repeat of the epidemic. Far fewer Zimbabweans now require food aid, but difficulties remain. Parents struggle to afford school fees or meet charges for health services and unemployment is extremely high, but the situation is undeniably better and we should applaud the efforts of the reformers who have driven this progress.

Our own support has played a key role in enabling the reformers to improve service provision and improve prospects for the people of Zimbabwe. I will not have time to go into all the aspects of DfID’s £60 million investment in Zimbabwe last year but that was its largest aid package ever, and it has gone to improve the supply and availability of food for up to 3 million people by providing seeds and fertilisers to boost smallholder farming. It has also gone to basic education. All of this assistance has gone to the people who need it most. DfID has also supported activities that more directly support reform through a contribution to the process to develop a new constitution for Zimbabwe, and to improve budgeting and wider financial management.

Although it is the economic and social recovery that is the more noticeable, there have been some limited political reforms. Your Lordships may be surprised to know—I certainly was—that there are now no convicted political prisoners in Zimbabwe. All those who were imprisoned before the creation of the inclusive Government have now been released, although regrettably many are on bail with their prosecutions pending. There have been notable acquittals, noted by your Lordships today, including those of human rights defender Jestina Mukuko and Deputy Minister designate Roy Bennett—I do not quite know whether he has been reinstated in his position, as the noble Baroness asked me, but I can find out. Human rights, electoral and media commissions have also been established, with the potential to create conditions for credible elections. I would make more comments on developments regarding newspapers, which the noble Lord, Lord St John, mentioned, but I do not have time to do so.

There have been tinges of political reform, but of course the pace of that is very disappointing. A great deal of work remains to be done. We welcome the granting of licences to independent papers; it is equally important that journalists should be able to report freely and without fear of unjust prosecution. True friends of Zimbabwe should therefore hope to see the Government of Zimbabwe take further steps in this regard, including the repeal of repressive legislation. Relatively few Zimbabweans have access to newspapers but many have access to radio and, in towns, television. It was therefore disturbing to hear reports of recent attempts by so-called “war veterans” to control access to radios in rural areas. It is vital that Zimbabweans have access to a wide range of political views for the constitutional reform process to develop an effective way.

There are challenges, too, on the economic front, as the noble Lord, Lord Chidgey, and others said. Investor confidence will return only if transparent, accountable government and the rule of law are established. It will remain low while arbitrary, violent farm seizures continue and foreign businesses are deterred from investing as a result of an ill conceived indigenisation programme. Let me make it clear that it is the means by which indigenisation is achieved rather than the end that is of concern to potential investors.

I have much more to say, but time forbids. This has been a powerful and effective debate. Successful and sustainable elections alone can free Zimbabweans to build a prosperous, stable and democratic future. We look forward to Zimbabwe once again providing inspiration across the continent and serving as a force for stability and economic growth. I thank noble Lords for their lively and profound contributions to this debate. The Government look forward to working closely with both Houses in pursuit of our shared goal of a better Zimbabwe.

Nuclear Non-Proliferation

Lord Howell of Guildford Excerpts

Wednesday 9th June 2010 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Miller of Chilthorne Domer]

To ask Her Majesty’s Government what contribution they will make to the work required to achieve progress on the Treaty on the Non-Proliferation of Nuclear Weapons following the resolution passed at the review conference in May.

[The Minister of State, Foreign and Commonwealth Office (Lord Howell of Guildford)]

My Lords, as we promised on taking office, we pushed hard for agreement of a final document at the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty Review Conference. We will give the highest priority to reversing the spread of nuclear weapons, keeping them out of the hands of terrorists and cutting their numbers worldwide, and we will work with partners to translate those commitments into action.

[Baroness Miller of Chilthorne Domer]

My Lords, I thank the Minister for his Answer. There was considerable acclaim at the conference for the UK’s leadership role over the past few years in the verification of the disarmament process and, in particular, for our work with Norway. Will he ensure that the Government continue that work, that it is resourced and that Aldermaston retains and develops the expertise needed? Without those practical steps, wishes will remain aspirations as opposed to realities.

[Lord Howell of Guildford]

My Lords, I thank the noble Baroness. Her concern about and interest in these matters is second to none. At the review conference, it was felt that the treaty had been, thankfully, revitalised and a series of action plans and activities were agreed between the participants, including an action plan for existing nuclear powers; an action plan for non-proliferation checking, although, of course, we have a long way to go on that; civil nuclear energy co-operation; verification procedures with Norway, to which the noble Baroness referred; strengthening nuclear security controls; and calling a regional conference in the Middle East to discuss possible Middle East freedom from weapons of mass destruction. This is a big achievement—a big step—and we should be very grateful that we have managed to make this kind of progress.

[Lord Harris of Haringey]

My Lords, the IAEA’s illicit trafficking database has recorded 336 incidents involving unauthorised possession of nuclear materials and associated criminal acts in the past 15 years. There have also been incidents of terror teams carrying out reconnaissance of nuclear weapon trains in Russia. Can the noble Lord tell us, first, whether Her Majesty’s Government are satisfied with the security arrangements around the nuclear facilities in this country and what steps they are taking to protect them? Secondly, what steps are they taking to ensure that security arrangements around both civil and military nuclear facilities elsewhere are being properly maintained?

[Lord Howell of Guildford]

I thank the noble Lord for his question. We are satisfied, but we are always on guard and always watchful for any need for improvement. The international security of nuclear materials was discussed, analysed and strengthened at the Washington conference in April that preceded the nuclear NPT review conference. A whole series of measures was put forward there and agreed. In so far as one can, one can say that these measures are a step forward in what is undoubtedly, as the noble Lord fully realises, a very dangerous situation.

[Lord Hannay of Chiswick]

My Lords, will the Minister accept my congratulations to both the Government he represents and the previous Government, since they overlapped during the NPT review, on the work that they put in to achieve a consensus outcome, which I agree was a major step forward? Will the Government press the Secretary-General of the UN extremely hard to appoint a facilitator for the 2012 conference on a nuclear weapons-free Middle East, which has now been decided on, so that a really distinguished, impartial person can get down to work on this very difficult subject without delay? Will they ensure that the Secretary-General of the UN tells his facilitator that he should apply the phrase, “Don’t take no for an answer”?

[Lord Howell of Guildford]

I am grateful to the noble Lord. Part of the action plan for the existing nuclear powers is to involve the UN Secretary-General much more closely and to seek his co-operation in the directions that the noble Lord has described. I cannot vouch for the precise patterns which he will follow, but his full involvement in these matters is a major intention of the signatories to the new conclusions.

[Baroness Williams of Crosby]

My Lords, the Minister described the excellent outcome of the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty Review Conference. However, the great bulk of non-nuclear powers decided to press for a nuclear weapons convention to abolish nuclear weapons completely by 2025. In the light of that, will the nuclear posture review, which has been welcomed and mentioned by the coalition Government, look into how far we can make precise the future steps towards disarmament that we shall take as a Government? Will it also look at the future of the British deterrent?

[Lord Howell of Guildford]

My Lords, I am grateful to the noble Baroness, who obviously has enormous knowledge of this subject. The idea of a nuclear weapons convention is a fine one, but we take the view, as I think do other Governments, that it is in practice a question of one step at a time. We want to try to move towards the Comprehensive Test Ban Treaty and the Fissile Material Cut-Off Treaty. A whole series of things need to be done before one comes to the happy situation where the nuclear world is disarmed and a convention could then get full support. If we try to rush to a convention first of all, we might end up delaying the detailed work that is needed on the path to get there.

Israel and Gaza

Lord Howell of Guildford Excerpts

Tuesday 8th June 2010 Lords Chamber

[Lord Campbell-Savours]

To ask Her Majesty’s Government what recent discussions they have had about the situation in Israel and Gaza.

[The Minister of State, Foreign and Commonwealth Office (Lord Howell of Guildford)]

My Lords, the United Kingdom is in regular contact with the Israeli and Palestinian Governments and our international allies regarding the current humanitarian situation in Gaza and the wider issues relating to the peace process. As my right honourable friend the Foreign Secretary said in the other place, it is essential that there should be unfettered access to Gaza, not only to meet the humanitarian needs of the people of Gaza but to enable reconstruction of homes and livelihoods and permit trade to take place.

[Lord Campbell-Savours]

My Lords, in the face of threats to intervene and break the blockade by Iranian Revolutionary Guard naval units, why cannot the United Kingdom Government announce that they are prepared to challenge the blockade by providing a naval escort for a flotilla of ships carrying humanitarian aid into Gaza, aid which has been given prior clearance by the European Union in the way that Bernard Kouchner has suggested? Would that not be a far better way to proceed? The Israeli Government are far more likely to heed that kind of initiative.

[Lord Howell of Guildford]

I recognise the noble Lord’s strong feelings on this matter, but we simply do not think that that is the right way to proceed. We think that the right way is for the restrictions and the so-called blockade to be lifted beyond the present arrangements, by which some humanitarian supplies get in but not enough. We think that the right way forward is to put maximum pressure on Israel to do that. That is the sensible way forward for Israel’s own security and for the future prospects for the peace process.

[Lord Hylton]

I agree entirely with the Minister about unrestricted access to Gaza, but are there not immediate questions to be discussed with the Government of Israel concerning the ships themselves, their cargoes, now under arrest, and possibly the personal possessions of persons who have been arrested?

[Lord Howell of Guildford]

I cannot answer the noble Lord on the personal possessions issue. With regard to the humanitarian goods on these ships, the idea is that they should be shipped on into Gaza. However, unfortunately, it appears that the Hamas group has not been very keen on accepting all that aid at the moment. But that is the procedure that the Government of Israel are trying to adopt in the face of attempts to run the blockade or break the restrictions, which are apparently to be promoted by a number of countries, including some of the Iranian authorities.

[Baroness Ramsay of Cartvale]

Does the Minister agree that, while there is a great need to improve the access for aid and commercial goods into Gaza, it still requires any new regime allowing new materials into Gaza to take great care not to allow in weapons that might be used against Israel?

[Lord Howell of Guildford]

The noble Baroness is absolutely right. This is the dilemma. Israel does have the right to restrain the import of weapons, bombs and so on into the control of Hamas. At the same time, we all want to see the sufferings of the people of Gaza minimised and the maximum supplies of food, building materials, medical supplies and so on imported into Gaza. That is the dilemma that must be solved. The right way forward is along the lines proposed, with pressure on Israel to do that rather than creating some head-on conflict with Israel when it is the country with which we need to co-operate to achieve the two-state solution that we all want to see.

[Lord Dykes]

In the mean time, my Lords, will my noble friend confirm that the peace talks and the proximity talks are proceeding apace, despite the continuing weakness of the quartet mechanism, which is deeply disappointing to all observers? Will he reassure us that the sinister rumours that George Mitchell is less than even-handed between Israel and Palestinian lobbies are not true?

[Lord Howell of Guildford]

I can give that reassurance. I can also tell my noble friend that the Palestinian authorities have shown no inclination to withdraw from the proximity talks or from the talks that might follow them. For the moment that side of the situation holds together, despite all these unhappy developments in recent days.

[Lord Anderson of Swansea]

The Minister must recognise that Israel has legitimate security concerns and cannot be expected to allow unfettered access. How, then, do the Government respond to the specific proposal from Bernard Kouchner that the European Union offers to provide some form of border monitoring for material entering Gaza to ensure that it is only for humanitarian purposes?

[Lord Howell of Guildford]

There may well be something in that idea. Of course there is the other border on the Egyptian side, which was open temporarily and has now been closed. All these matters are to be pursued to see whether we can find that key reconciliation between the need to end the suffering of the people of Gaza and Israel’s legitimate security concerns.

[The Lord Bishop of Bath and Wells]

My Lords, while I recognise the appropriate need for Israel to be protected, the issue of building materials in relation to the people of Gaza is nevertheless important, given the recent campaign against Gaza involving bombing and the destruction of houses. What can Her Majesty’s Government do in the interim to encourage the Israeli Government to allow building materials to go into that country? Surely they are fundamental to the humanitarian effort.

[Lord Howell of Guildford]

The right reverend Prelate is right. The answer has to be that maximum pressure and encouragement must be placed on the Government of Israel to do what is actually in their own interest, which is to minimise the restrictions, to lift the blockade as far as they can consistent with their security and to continue to expand the amount of provisions already going into Gaza from Israel as well as from Egypt. That is the way forward and we should not be deflected from it.

Korean Peninsula: “Cheonan”

Lord Howell of Guildford Excerpts

Wednesday 2nd June 2010 Lords Chamber

[Lord Alton of Liverpool]

My Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question standing in my name on the Order Paper and, in so doing, I declare a non-pecuniary interest as chairman of the All-Party Group on North Korea.

[The Minister of State, Foreign and Commonwealth Office (Lord Howell of Guildford)]

My Lords, we are concerned about the situation on the Korean peninsula following the sinking of the “Cheonan” vessel. The Government are in no doubt that North Korea was responsible for this callous and unacceptable act. The Prime Minister has expressed his sympathy to President Lee for the loss of life. We urge North Korea to acknowledge responsibility and to avoid escalating tensions further. We understand that South Korea will request that the UN Security Council looks at this issue next week and we are working with South Korea and other international partners to ensure the strongest possible response with a UN Security Council consensus.

[Lord Alton of Liverpool]

My Lords, on this, his first appearance at Question Time as the Minister dealing with international and foreign affairs, and in the light of the huge contribution that he made during his time in opposition, I am sure that the whole House will want to welcome the noble Lord to his onerous duties and responsibilities.

When this matter comes before the Security Council next week, will we be pressing for a commission of inquiry or a referral to the International Criminal Court on these events, which led to the deaths of 46 people following the sinking of the “Cheonan”? Are we also engaging with the Government of China? That is crucial if we are to make progress on this matter.

[Lord Howell of Guildford]

I thank the noble Lord for his kind remarks. He is second to none in his expertise on North Korea and in his concern for human rights there. The problem with a commission is simply that China will not go along with it, so we would never get unity among the permanent five. Also, North Korea is not a signatory to the ICC. Although we want strong action, we want to try to keep the permanent five together and to get some kind of statement or resolution that will really have an effect and make an impact.

[Lord Hannay of Chiswick]

Have the Government had any indication of what the Chinese Prime Minister may have meant when he reportedly said in Seoul that the Chinese Government would not protect anyone responsible for this incident? Are we taking steps to bring home to the Chinese Government the proposition, with which I hope that the Minister would agree, that if they were to block an effective response in the Security Council, that would be a major contribution to insecurity in north-east Asia?

[Lord Howell of Guildford]

Yes, we are taking all the steps that we can to bring the Chinese along. We would obviously like their support, but there are difficulties. The statement from the Chinese leader that he would not protect those who did this raised hopes but, thereafter, the Chinese went rather ambiguous and are now not prepared to apportion blame. That is the problem and where we are now.

[Baroness Kinnock of Holyhead]

My Lords, I, too, add my welcome again to the noble Lord, Lord Howell, in his new role. I shall pursue the Minister on the ICC. The UN special rapporteur for North Korea has called for strong UN action. He said that a commission of inquiry should be set up on crimes against humanity in North Korea and he called for serious consideration of the need for an indictment of individual members of the regime. Does the Minister agree with that position? What action will the coalition Government take in pursuit of those objectives?

[Lord Howell of Guildford]

Yes, I agree. The Government would be concerned to see that any criminals, or those accused of war crimes internationally, were properly charged, where they can be reached by the jurisdiction of the ICC. There is a difficulty, given that Korea has not signed up to the ICC, which is why we feel that the commission of inquiry may be some way down the road, as it is a difficult thing to get started now.

[Lord Pannick]

Have the Government considered the possibility of expanding or encouraging the expansion of the jurisdiction of the ICC so that it would have a role in relation to conduct within a state that does not recognise the powers of the ICC?

[Lord Howell of Guildford]

We debated these matters closely in this House—I cannot remember whether the noble Lord was a Member at the time—and looked at that possibility. The Government have no plans to do so at present.

[Baroness Falkner of Margravine]

My Lords, does the Minister accept that China’s position of so-called impartiality on this question is unsustainable, because it cannot use that approach to other countries in which it also takes an interest, such as Iran? Are we pressing on China, in this case, the need for it to be clear at the UN Security Council next week about where it stands, given that the United States has offered to share with it its assessment of intelligence information, in addition to the independent commission’s report?

[Lord Howell of Guildford]

My noble friend is absolutely right that, if we can persuade the Chinese that their troublesome and awkward neighbour could be just as damaging to them as to the rest of us, we will be making progress. We are talking to them at a number of levels and we may make progress. However, at the moment, the Chinese are reluctant to pin blame. That is the problem.

[Lord Bates]

I, too, welcome my noble friend to his duties, to which he brings enormous expertise. As well as ensuring that there is a suitably robust international response to the specific instance that we are talking about, will he ensure that some progress is made on the lingering injustice of the artificial division of the Korean peninsula along the 38th parallel? Will he ensure that the pledge that was made in Cairo nearly seven years ago to try to bring about an independent, demilitarised, democratic and free united Korean people is also progressed as a way of reducing tension?

[Lord Howell of Guildford]

That would, in theory, be the ideal. It is basically up to the nation states involved: North Korea and South Korea. In practice, there are, to put it mildly, a few difficulties.

[Lord Grenfell]

My Lords, I join those who have expressed words of welcome to the noble Lord, Lord Howell, on his return to the government Front Bench. He is my old roommate from Cambridge and I think that I was almost in short trousers when he first went into government. I am delighted to see him back.

Do Her Majesty’s Government have any plans to try once again to persuade the United States to recognise the International Criminal Court? It would be helpful if the United States could overcome its shyness on this, because it would carry a great deal of weight in dealing with rogue states such as North Korea.

[Lord Howell of Guildford]

I thank the noble Lord—indeed, my noble friend, as he is—for his compliment, if it was a compliment. We must keep trying. The United States has deep-rooted objections, as we discovered when we debated this matter in the House some years ago. It is nervous that its troops and personnel around the world might be unfairly attacked and charged. However, we must keep at it and I agree with the noble Lord that this is a good way to go.

Gaza Flotilla

Lord Howell of Guildford Excerpts

Wednesday 2nd June 2010 Lords Chamber

[The Minister of State, Foreign and Commonwealth Office (Lord Howell of Guildford)]

My Lords, with permission, I shall now repeat a Statement made in another place by my right honourable friend the Foreign Secretary. The Statement is as follows.

“With permission, Mr Speaker, I will report to the House on the events surrounding the interception of boats in the Free Gaza flotilla, the immediate action the Government have taken and our planned next steps.

In the early hours of 31 May the Israeli defence forces intercepted six of the eight boats sailing in the Free Gaza flotilla. The incident led to injury and death for a number of passengers, mainly on the vessel the “Mavi Marmara”. We await details of all the casualties and fatalities but it is clear that many will be Turkish citizens. The Prime Minister and I have spoken to the Turkish Prime Minister and Foreign Minister to offer our condolences. The six intercepted vessels were brought to shore in the Israeli port of Ashdod. Two of the boats had been delayed by mechanical difficulties and remain at sea. We believe they are en route to Gaza.

I can inform the House that it appears that a total of 37 British nationals were involved in Sunday’s events, including 11 dual nationals. We have so far received access to 28 of these individuals, one of whom was deported yesterday. We understand that four more British nationals agreed to be deported this morning and that the remaining British nationals are likely to be transferred to the airport soon. We have expressed our disappointment to the Israeli Government about the levels of preparedness on their part and the fact that we have not yet been given full information about British nationals detained and access to them. We are urgently pressing the Israelis to resolve the situation within hours.

There is real, understandable and justified anger at the events which have unfolded. The position of the Government is as follows. Our clear advice to British nationals is not to travel to Gaza. However we have made it clear in public and to the Israeli Government that we deeply deplore the loss of life and look to Israel to do everything possible to avoid a repeat of this unacceptable situation. The UN Security Council and the European Union have rightly condemned the violence which resulted in the loss of these lives. We have demanded urgent information about and access to all UK nationals involved. Their welfare is our top priority at this time, along with support to their families, who are understandably very worried. We are seriously concerned about the seizure of British nationals in international waters and this aspect of the Israeli operation must form a key part of the investigation into events.

The Prime Minister has spoken to the Israeli Prime Minister, I have spoken to the Israeli Foreign Minister and the Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, my honourable Friend the Member for North East Bedfordshire, has been in close contact with the Israeli ambassador in London. The embassy in Tel Aviv has been in constant contact with the Israeli authorities. I am grateful to those honourable and right honourable Members who have already been in contact with the Foreign and Commonwealth Office in relation to their constituents and their families and have provided information. We recognise the intense concern for those involved and the need to keep Members updated.

Israel has told us that it wants to move as quickly as possible to deport those people from the flotilla currently held in Israel. If they agree, they will be deported very quickly. Those who remain unwilling to leave will be allowed to stay for 72 hours in detention, which is the time limit allowed for them to appeal against deportation. My understanding is that after that they will be deported. It is our understanding that the Israelis have also begun to transfer to Jordan detainees from countries that are not represented in Israel. We understand that those individuals who were allegedly involved in violence against Israeli servicemen during the boarding will have their cases examined in line with Israeli legal advice. We do not currently believe there are any British nationals in this last category, though I hope the House will appreciate that the situation is fluid.

Our partners in the international community are working, as are we, to facilitate the swift release of those detained. Turkey is sending six planes to Tel Aviv’s Ben Gurion Airport to fly out its nationals. The Turkish authorities have indicated that detainees of other countries may join these flights. We are exploring whether this is feasible for British nationals.

The UK has played its full part in the European Union and United Nations in agreeing on the need for a full, credible, impartial and independent investigation into the events. Our goal is a process which ensures full accountability for the events that occurred and commands the confidence of the international community, including via international participation. Further discussions are taking place in other international fora, including at NATO and in the UN Human Rights Council. We will take the same principled stand across all our diplomatic efforts and stress to the Israeli Government the need for them to act with restraint and in line with their international obligations given that their actions appear to have gone beyond what was warranted or proportionate. We need to know whether more could have been done to minimise the risks or to reduce the number of deaths and injuries.

The events aboard the flotilla were very serious and have captured the world’s attention. However, they should not be viewed in isolation. They arise from the unacceptable and unsustainable situation in Gaza, which is a cause of public concern here in the UK and around the world. It has long been the view of the British Government that restrictions on Gaza should be lifted. That view was confirmed in United Nations Security Council Resolution 1860, which called for sustained delivery of humanitarian aid and which called on states to alleviate the humanitarian and economic situation. That this has not happened is a tragedy. It is essential not only that there is unfettered access to meet the humanitarian needs of the Gazan people but also that the reconstruction of homes, livelihoods and trade be permitted to take place. The Palestinian economy, whether in Gaza or the West Bank, is an essential part of a viable Palestinian state that I hope will one day live alongside Israel in peace and security.

As the once-productive private sector has been decimated and ordinary Gazans have lost their jobs and incomes, it is tunnel entrepreneurs and their Hamas backers who have benefited. Hamas now has near-total control of the economy. Other groups, even more radical and violent, are finding a place amid the misery and frustration felt by a generation of young Gazans. In this context, current Israeli restrictions are counterproductive for Israel’s long-term security.

We will therefore continue to press the Israeli Government to lift the closure of Gaza. We will plan early discussions with Israel as well as our other international partners about what more can be done to ensure an unfettered flow of aid while ensuring that it reaches those who need it and is not abused. I discussed this with Secretary Clinton last night and we will take forward urgently discussions on this subject.

The House should not forget the role played by Hamas in this conflict. It continues to pursue an ideology of violence and directly to undermine prospects for peace in the region. Violence has continued in recent days, with rocket fire from militants in Gaza and Israeli military incursions and air strikes in response. We call on Hamas to take immediate and concrete steps towards the quartet principles, to unconditionally release Gilad Shalit, who has been held in captivity for four years, and end its interference with the operations of NGOs and UN agencies in Gaza.

It is today more clear than ever that the only long-term and sustainable solution to the conflict which produced these tragic events is a two-state solution that achieves a viable and sovereign Palestinian state living alongside a secure Israel, with her right to live in peace and security recognised by all her neighbours. The proximity talks that are currently under way are more important than ever. These events should not undermine these talks but instead underline just how important they are, and the Government will make it an urgent priority to give British diplomatic support to buttress that process.

The Government will continue to keep the House informed of developments”.

My Lords, that concludes the Statement.

--- Later in debate ---

[Lord Howell of Guildford]

I thank the noble Baroness for her acute and expert questions. I hope that I have got them all down and that I will be able to answer all of them efficiently and effectively. Every effort will be made to obtain access to, and get the release of, all those who are detained. As the Foreign Secretary said earlier in his Statement, we think that there are no British nationals among those who have been detained or questioned under Israeli law, but the situation is fluid and I stand open to be corrected if events prove otherwise.

As the Foreign Secretary said in his Statement, we are pressing for a lifting of the blockade. This must be right; if it had not been for the blockade, we would not be facing the ugly situation that has developed. Resolution 1860 requires that all humanitarian aid should be passed into Gaza and allowed to move freely.

Of course we must respect Israel’s complete right to look after its own security and to do what it can to ensure that bombs and dangerous weapons are not also being filtered into Gaza that are then used against Israel—that is a perfectly natural and understandable stance—but that has to be consistent with allowing all other supplies, including humanitarian supplies, to get into Gaza and lift the blockade on all the normal accoutrements of daily life that the Gazan people so desperately need, including all conceivable medical supplies and food. We think that that is a wrong stance by Israel, and we urge the Israelis to change it and to abide by Resolution 1860.

We support the view of the European Union, which has not only issued condolences and taken a strong position but has called, as the noble Baroness rightly says, for an investigation that should be independent and international. We think that that is the right way to go. The United Nations Security Council has also called for an independent and impartial investigation. This must be so; obviously, if it were not of that character and quality, it would not carry any weight at all and would not be worth the effort or the paper that it was written on.

The noble Baroness asked me whether we should somehow give a fair wind to the Irish vessels that are proceeding in the direction of Gaza. Actually, we do not think that the attempt to bust the blockade by sailing towards Gaza with ships loaded in various ways is the right answer. The answer is to lift the blockade, for the Israelis to check, justifiably, that armaments are not going to be pushed into Gaza and for matters to be handled in a much more civilised way than they have been in the past week. So we think that sailing into Gaza is not the best way to try to bust the blockade, but at the same time we believe that if the Israelis interfere further with shipping, as they may well do, they should go about it in ways that are more proportionate and less obviously heavy-handed than the miserable affair in which they have become involved in the past few days.

[Lord Wright of Richmond]

My Lords, I hope that I will be allowed to add to the earlier compliments to the Minister for his position on the Front Bench and, without being impertinent, to express the hope that he enjoys his relationship with Her Majesty’s Diplomatic Service as much as I enjoyed the privilege of being a member of it for 36 years.

Does the Minister agree that one of the tragedies of this recent incident is not just that it has created further, possibly fatal, damage to the reputation and international credibility of Mr Netanyahu’s Government, but that it must have further reduced such chances that there were of moving towards a settlement between his Government and the Palestinians?

If, as we must all hope, there is now a realistic chance of lifting Israel’s inhuman and unacceptable blockade of Gaza, I hope that the Minister will be able to reassure those of us who have long argued for contacts with the elected authorities in Gaza that the coalition is now prepared to open talks with those authorities, if only to be able to help facilitate the introduction of necessary and vital supplies to alleviate the suffering and unemployment of the people of Gaza. Of course we should not ignore the role of Hamas in launching attacks against Israel but does the Minister agree that, in almost every case, offers of a ceasefire from Hamas have been broken on the Israeli side?

I hope that the Minister can also reassure the House that the Government will continue to press for an end to the illegal colonisation of the West Bank and the eviction of Palestinians from their homes in east Jerusalem.

[Lord Howell of Guildford]

I am extremely grateful to the noble Lord for his kind remarks. I am sure I will enjoy working with the diplomats, though I may not agree with every nuance of diplomacy. I see my job as not only to represent the Foreign and Commonwealth Office in your Lordships’ House, but to represent your Lordships’ views in the Foreign and Commonwealth Office. We have to get to the truth of what happened. It is still obscure as to how this came about, although there are some very ugly realities that we have all seen on television. I would not be quite as gloomy as the noble Lord about the future; it could be that this ugly event has jarred people into a new realism. Mahmoud Abbas has already said he believes that we should press ahead with the proximity talks. I think that is right.

The noble Lord went on to talk about whether the coalition Government should talk to Hamas about such detailed practical matters as the release of personnel. Officials have had to talk to Hamas but the Government do not believe that we should talk to Hamas until it is prepared to take concrete steps some degree in the direction of the quartet’s proposals. So far, it has shown that it is not prepared to take those concrete steps. When it does, the situation could change. Until that is so, that is the position of the coalition. I hope that answers the specific questions of the noble Lord. I agree with his broader proposition that the day must come when there is a Palestinian state, many of the present trends are reversed and these two nations can live side by side in security and peace.

[Baroness Falkner of Margravine]

My Lords—

--- Later in debate ---

[Lord Janner of Braunstone]

I thank the noble Baroness for that. I join in expressing deep sorrow at the awful sadness that this event has created on all sides. It is very tragic. The question now is: how do we get a peace programme that helps ordinary people and isolates extremists? I suggest that our Government should join the quartet and host a conference in London with the Israelis to discuss the easing of restrictions on goods to be allowed into Gaza. I trust the noble Lord will agree with me that neither Israel nor the international community should engage with Hamas in any way until it renounces violence and accepts Israel’s right to exist.

[Lord Howell of Guildford]

I understand the noble Lord’s expertise and the way he fights for what he believes to be the right causes in this difficult and tragic area. However, I have already made clear at the Dispatch Box the Government’s views about talks with Hamas. I do not have anything to add to that.

[Baroness Falkner of Margravine]

My Lords, I thank my noble friend the Minister for his comprehensive Statement, which sets out the Government’s position in some detail. I particularly welcome page 5, which refers to the blockade, rather than retaining the focus on the specific issue of this flotilla. That is very welcome. Is it the Government’s opinion that the legal status of the blockade is defensible in international law? It seems to me that blockades can take place only in emergencies; four years is rather a long time for a state of emergency to continue.

Picking up the point made by the noble Baroness, Lady Kinnock, on the “Rachel Corrie”, I heard what the Minister said about not necessarily providing safe passage. However, in calling for an international and credible investigation, will Her Majesty’s Government also be prepared to press that the investigation should look into the allegations of sabotage against the “Rachel Corrie” and its sister ships? It would be very serious if the Israeli Government were acting on several different fronts to undermine the passage of humanitarian aid.

[Lord Howell of Guildford]

I am grateful to my noble friend for those questions. On the legal status, United Nations Resolution 1860 is pretty clear that the blockade should be lifted. I do not want to tread into the niceties of international law beyond that but, given that the United Nations and the international community have said what they have, Israel must be getting very near illegality in maintaining such a vicious blockade, which clearly has such bad effects in humanitarian terms. We believe that it should be lifted. We cannot see that it is doing Israel any good and it is not doing the situation any good, so it should go. As to the sabotage of ships that my noble friend mentions, the trouble is that many issues and questions are flying round. For example, were these ships sabotaged? Did two of them have to stop in Cyprus? Why were there 400 or 500 so-called activists on a ship if it was meant to be carrying humanitarian materials? Perhaps it would have been better to carry those materials than so many bodies. All sorts of issues are not straight at the moment and need to be looked at in the investigation, but that certainly is one of them.

[Lord Campbell-Savours]

Do the Government rule out punishment of the state of Israel in all circumstances in the event that it is found guilty on these matters?

[Lord Howell of Guildford]

That is one step down the line. The first thing is to find out what happened, who is guilty and whether we are looking at a botched operation by the Israeli elite corps, as most people in Israel are admitting, or whether we are looking at crimes that require punishment. That lies far down the line, so I do not think that this is a time for ruling in or ruling out.

[Lord Pannick]

The Minister said that there must be an international inquiry. Does he accept that there is every reason for confidence that an inquiry conducted by an Israeli judge—should the Israeli Government proceed along that route—would be independent and thorough, given the well deserved reputation of the Israeli judiciary for independence and protecting the human rights of all those whose interests have been considered by the Israeli courts? Is the Minister aware that the criticisms of these unhappy events from outside Israel are loudly echoed within Israel by many politicians and by large sections of the press and the public? Has he seen the editorial and other articles in yesterday’s well respected Haaretz newspaper, the flavour of which is given by its headlines, “The price of flawed policy”, “A failure any way you slice it” and “Bibi the schlimazel”—that is, a person who stumbles from one calamity to another?

--- Later in debate ---

[Lord Howell of Guildford]

I am very grateful to the noble Lord, who is a considerable authority in this area. He is absolutely right about the Israeli judiciary and the quality of judges. What he says will have to be determined when it comes to the investigation. I have read extracts from editorials in Israeli newspapers. The noble Lord is right to say that many wise and highly intelligent Israelis are questioning whether the present policy—not only in relation to this matter but generally—is the right one for the security of Israel. I believe that the security of Israel is vital and should be pursued by somewhat wiser and more subtle policies than those being followed at present.

[Lord Clinton-Davis]

I acknowledge that this act should never have occurred, but does the Minister agree that a state of war frequently leads to a horrendous and unlawful situation and that this is no exception? Does he also agree that humanitarian supplies should be conveyed to the people of Gaza at this time? However, is it not equally important, as the noble Lord said, that the illegitimate and provocative behaviour of Hamas in Gaza should cease? In no way can it contribute to a peaceful solution to this issue.

[Lord Howell of Guildford]

My Lords, of course I agree with both those wise propositions. The rocketry must cease and that would begin to open the way to better things. Obviously, as the noble Lord says, war leads to the most terrifying, terrible and horrific situations and violence. We all recognise that. The sooner we can bring peace, instead of this horrific situation, the better.

[The Lord Bishop of Ripon and Leeds]

My Lords, will the Minister comment on the role—actual and potential—of Egypt in finding a solution to the immediate and longer-term issues? Egypt shares a border with Gaza. Have the Government been in touch with the Egyptian Government? What fruitful ways forward do they see in that relationship?

[Lord Howell of Guildford]

I shall have to check on whether we have been in touch with the Egyptian Government. Obviously, the Egyptians are very much part of this story. They have very recently removed their part of the blockade on Gaza. More generally, we are hoping for a more positive and active role in this whole area by Egypt, which is an enormous country, than we have seen in the recent past. This may be because the Egyptians face certain internal problems, but a more active role by Egypt and the regional partners generally in this whole affair would be very welcome indeed.

[Lord Cope of Berkeley]

My Lords—

--- Later in debate ---

[Lord Cope of Berkeley]

My Lords, in his Statement, my noble friend spoke of the possibility that some of those aboard this ship may be charged with offences against the Israelis who boarded it. What right would Israeli courts have to try anyone for offences apparently committed in international waters on a Turkish ship? What on earth would be the jurisdiction of the Israeli courts over any such offence?

[Lord Howell of Guildford]

That raises the broader question as to whether the operation in international waters was legal and covered by the provisions of war or whether it will turn out to have been illegal. Obviously, the Israeli authorities consider that those individuals who they believe took violent action against the people parachuted on to the deck of the “Mavi Marmara” are people who attacked their soldiers and should be charged. That is the view of the Israelis and, although we may think that other issues should be resolved first, the Israeli authorities clearly wish to examine whether these people who attacked their soldiers should be charged.

[Lord Elystan-Morgan]

My Lords, while the whole House would deplore the frightening loss of life, both in relation to the Gaza flotilla and in relation to tunnellers killed over the past few weeks on the Egypt-Gaza border when seeking to break through to Gaza, is it not the case that both sovereign states of Israel and Egypt are, as a matter of general precept, within the bounds of international law in seeking to prevent the supply to Hamas of material of a military, or potential military, nature? Having said that, one appreciates that such actions have to be proportionate and reasonable when policing such a privilege.

[Lord Howell of Guildford]

I am sure that the noble Lord is right but, as my right honourable friend pointed out in his Statement, it is precisely the completeness of the blockade in blockading not merely weapons but all other supplies that has given birth to the tunnel arrangements and the kind of black-marketing and control of trade that have poisoned the whole Gaza scene. If the blockade were lifted, the case for the tunnels would disappear.

[Lord Grocott]

My Lords, I welcome the Government’s clarity and robustness, first, in saying that the inquiry must be seen to be absolutely independent and rigorous and, secondly, in saying that the blockade must be lifted. The Minister said—I am not sure how precisely he intended that the word should be interpreted—that the blockade must be ended by “civilised” means. We all agree with the word “civilised”, but it does not demonstrate the urgency that is needed in the lifting of the blockade, as we remember the unremitting and continuing suffering of innocent people in Gaza, who as recently as 18 months ago lost 400 of their children in a war. The international community must address the lifting of the blockade as a matter of urgency.

[Lord Howell of Guildford]

I agree with that and hope that nothing that I said earlier contradicts that view. Israel must urgently find and adopt a better way of limiting any arms and bombs going into Gaza, while at the same time providing for the needs of the people of Gaza, which are desperate and urgent. It is also urgent that the Hamas rocketeers stop firing rockets into Israel. I used the word “civilised” to indicate that, if both sides move away from this violent brutality, we will get urgent progress.

[Lord Phillips of Sudbury]

My Lords, the Minister referred to the rockets fired from Gaza into Sderot and other places. I urge him to listen to the point made by the noble Lord, Lord Pannick, and to the quarter or third of the population of Israel who view Israel’s strategy and policy, in particular the colonisation of the West Bank, as being totally self-defeating for its long-term security, totally abhorrent in terms of human rights and totally against international law. I was in Gaza in January, for the third time in eight years. Some debates that one listens to in this Chamber—I mean no disrespect to any noble Lord—seem to be based on a misunderstanding of the abjectness of the condition of not only the Gazans but also the people in the West Bank and of the ritual, systemic humiliation and violence to which they are subject. It is all very well talking about a few home-made rockets—and I do not defend them—but there is an occupying army in the West Bank and there was a pulverisation of Gaza a year ago, in which 1,400 people were killed as against 13. I urge the Government to get real about these issues and not to pretend that there is parity between one side and the other.

[Lord Howell of Guildford]

I think that my noble friend’s views are very widely shared. I listened carefully to the noble Lord, Lord Pannick, who rightly said that there are a large number of people within Israel, as well as among those who look on and admire Israel from around the world and believe that it has every right to exist as a nation in security, who feel that its present policies are certainly not achieving that aim.

Queen's Speech

Lord Howell of Guildford Excerpts

Wednesday 26th May 2010 Lords Chamber

“Most Gracious Sovereign—We, Your Majesty’s most dutiful and loyal subjects, the Lords Spiritual and Temporal in Parliament assembled, beg leave to thank Your Majesty for the most gracious Speech which Your Majesty has addressed to both Houses of Parliament.

[The Minister of State, Foreign and Commonwealth Office (Lord Howell of Guildford)]

My Lords, it is a privilege to open the days of debate ahead on the humble Address. I want to begin with some of my own tributes. My first tribute, echoing that of the Leader of the House yesterday, is to the outgoing Leader of the House, now the acting Leader of Her Majesty’s Opposition, the noble Baroness, Lady Royall of Blaisdon. I am thinking of my time on the Front Bench opposite, when she led your Lordships’ House through some intensely difficult moments with the greatest skill. We all owe her our thanks. We also extend our deep sympathies to her for her tragic loss.

I also salute the work of my predecessors in the role I am now fulfilling over the past years—it is been about nine years now—including the noble Baroness, Lady Kinnock, who I am happy to see in her place and who was doing my job before; the noble Lord, Lord Malloch-Brown; and, particularly, the noble Baroness, Lady Symons of Vernham Dean. They all set very high standards which I shall be hard pressed to follow, but I will do my best.

For the sake of my own career prospects—which, I admit, are extremely limited—I should also pay tribute to the two ex-leaders of the opposition parties, now the Leader and the Deputy Leader of the House, who have come together with such grace and speed, sacrificing the joys of opposition for the chill exposure of government. I acutely realise that from now on I shall have to pick my words with exceptional care, otherwise I may attract some distinctly uncoalition-like rebukes from my noble friend Lord McNally about my general abilities, qualifications and grasp of events, if not more.

I am pleased to be dealing with foreign affairs alongside my new noble friend Lord Wallace of Saltaire. To claim that we have always seen eye to eye on such matters as the future development of the EU and the Lisbon treaty would be stretching credulity beyond limits, but he is a towering authority on international issues and it is a privilege for me to be working with him. Finally, I am glad that my long-standing colleague, my noble friend Lord Astor, has been appointed Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State at the Ministry of Defence and will, of course, be winding up at the end of today’s proceedings.

We are witnessing a huge change in the way states and Governments face and interact with each other, and it is desirable now that Britain should be at its most agile, innovative, ingenious and constructive at operating within this quite new international milieu. First, while the Cold War is obviously decades behind us, with its grim threat of mutual nuclear annihilation, which some of us grew up with, the post-Cold War phase has brought new dangers of nuclear proliferation. That is why my right honourable friend the Secretary of State, Mr Hague, announced this morning, after only a few days in office, a highly significant departure in the UK’s strategic weapons policy—namely, by publishing for the first time the full number of nuclear warheads in the UK stockpile. In future, our stockpile will not exceed 225 warheads.

The Government will also launch a review of the UK’s nuclear posture; that is, its so-called “declaratory policy”. None of this will affect our national security, but it should all help considerably to boost the climate of trust between nuclear and non-nuclear weapon states which has been so signally lacking. All of this further affirms the full commitment of the coalition Government to the current Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty review going on in New York while we speak, where we are playing a strong role and which my honourable friend the Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State is attending.

A second major factor that we must now recognise is that the axis of international power and influence is shifting, not merely to the so-called “emerging powers” such as the BRICs—that is, Brazil, Russia, India and China—about which I shall say more in a moment, but also to increasingly significant players such as Turkey, Egypt and Saudi Arabia and to groupings such as the Shanghai Co-operation Organisation. The growing significance of the G20, alongside the G8, also clearly reflects this trend.

Thirdly, when it comes to our military strength—our hard-power capability—the shield of Achilles has today to be raised not only against visible enemies but also against the cowardly viciousness of the roadside bomb and other murderous methods. At the same time, the work of the military is increasingly and inevitably intertwined with reconstruction and civil repair. The Taliban and its Pashtun backers are one vivid and present example of these challenges. The wind-up speech of my noble friend Lord Astor will focus on the many specific questions and issues related to the Afghanistan war which I know are on your Lordships’ minds and on which we intend to give regular and comprehensive reports to Parliament on a quarterly basis.

Successful power deployment today—that is, power to protect and promote our people, national commercial interest and prosperity and yet at the same time uphold our values and maximise our contribution to global peace in a heavily interdependent age—therefore rests overwhelmingly on diplomacy in all its forms. That means operating not just through government-to-government relations but also, increasingly, through every kind of sub-governmental, non-governmental, professional, informational and commercial linkage. It demands a continuous spread of cultural diplomacy and soft-power deployment throughout the globe and the international institutional network. This dense mass of connections is the new global network in which we have to operate. What people call our enlightened self-interest in this new context is no narrow affair. It involves being an effective force for good in the world, fighting poverty, meeting or adjusting environmental and climatic threats as well as seeking the very best for our own nation and society. At government level, it requires an intricate web of diplomatic relations with nations large and small, conducted with the maximum mutual respect and underpinned by a highly active, informal latticework of connections.

Of course, we want a strong, close and frank relationship with the United States of America—to use the words of my right honourable friend the Secretary of State—and, within our own region, with our fellow European Union states. We want to use and strengthen the combined weight of the EU wherever we can. However, in the international landscape, the channels for power and influence will lie also in our bilateral network links with a whole variety of new players and not only with and through the main transatlantic duo.

[Lord Clinton-Davis]

How does the noble Lord reconcile that with his party’s alliance with extreme right-wing forces in the European Union? Are his views shared by the Liberal Democrats in that respect?

[Lord Howell of Guildford]

This is a coalition Government and a lot of views are shared. I shall come to European Union matters in a moment. Not every detail is shared, but the majority are. I assure the noble Lord, who has considerable experience of these things, that what I shall say represents the united view of the coalition on how we go forward on the crucial question of the European Union.

The same new pattern goes for our energy security. An entirely new pattern of energy supply is in the making, which invalidates old priorities. Nations such as Poland, with its shale gas, Brazil, with its enormous new oil finds and its sugarcane biofuel, and Canada, with its tar sands, shale, biofuels and Arctic oil and gas, all come to the fore as the key sources in the new era. Norway, too, will be increasingly our lifeline. But Russia, on the other hand, may come to have a less dominant role in Europe’s energy supplies—which is all to the good.

We will need to consider the redirection of diplomatic resource, in all its forms, to countries and networks which seemed scarcely to feature on the global priorities map a decade or so ago. We have to work out how scarce resources can best be deployed towards nations and networks such as the Turkish republic and the republics of Central Asia and the Caspian region, such as Azerbaijan. We must build stronger, reinvigorated and more structured ties with the Gulf states—our close friends in Kuwait, Bahrain, Qatar and the UAE, for example—with North Africa and with Japan, still an economic titan, in which the Secretary of State has asked me to take a special interest, with Latin America and especially with the whole vast Commonwealth network of linkages, both governmental and non-governmental, with India and Pakistan, Canada, Australia, New Zealand, South Africa and Malaysia in the lead, while fully respecting the interests of smaller Commonwealth countries as well.

I am sure that we all welcome Her Majesty's forthcoming visit to Canada, a leading Commonwealth member, and to the UN in New York, with the Duke of Edinburgh in June. Her Majesty’s own words that the Commonwealth is, in lots of ways,

“the face of the future”,

are worth keeping in mind.

I should add that we also warmly welcome the official papal visit to this country. I understand that there was a pastoral one before, but this is the first official one.

Our links with India, one of the world’s fastest-rising economies, will be of particular importance to us. The gracious Speech confirms that we will seek a truly enhanced partnership with the Indian giant, again a central Commonwealth member.

These will now be the priorities of diplomacy in its new guise. Experts may talk about the shift in wealth and power now taking place globally, but it is time to grasp what this really means, where the new power and influence centres really lie, and how we relate to them to our best possible national advantage.

I come to some specific issues concerning us all, although, obviously, I cannot in the time available—and noble Lords would not want me to—cover every aspect of the scene. I turn to the point raised about the European Union. There will, no doubt, be many debates ahead on the development of our relations with the EU, but I confirm that we will be energetically involved in the EU’s external policy challenges of today and tomorrow, although, of course, these form only a part of our overall global positioning and strategy. Some of us were not overenthusiastic about the new European Union external action service, but now that it exists we want to see it play a really positive role for the EU and its member states.

The EU is clearly facing great strains at the moment, which go well beyond the problems of Greece and the euro, and it is in our interest that it gets on top of these challenges before they drag us all down. But the coalition is agreed that any proposed future treaty that transferred further areas of power or competences from the UK to the EU will be subject to a referendum, and we propose to seek amendment of the European Communities Act 1972, accordingly. In addition, we will ensure that an Act of Parliament will be required before any ratchet clauses within the Lisbon treaty—the so-called passerelle clauses, which veterans of the debates will remember all too well—are put into effect. Any major transfer of powers by this route would also be subject to a referendum.

We also plan to examine further the case for a UK sovereignty Bill, to establish that ultimate authority remains with our Parliament. All that is very much in the spirit of the Laaken declaration, which wished to see the EU less remote from and nearer to the people of Europe. We all want to see parliamentary and democratic scrutiny, control and accountability for the European decision-making process maximised, and I believe that this is the way forward—for us and for the Union as a whole.

Turning to Iran, we support tougher sanctions to deter that country’s dangerous nuclear ambitions, but the question is whether China and Russia will co-operate fully, because they are in a position to undermine them. At present, those two great nations back sanctions, but also encourage deals such as the Turkey and Brazil nuclear fuel deal, which appears to do little to promote a more responsible attitude by Iran. There is also the new Iraq-Iran oil pipeline deal, which could weaken sanctions in the future. All those developments remind us that regional as much as western issues are at stake.

In Iraq, we now have post-election political stalemate. There has been an election, and democracy has worked in that sense, but there is now a stalemate that could be dangerous and bring yet more violence. A positive aspect is that oil investment is set to go ahead in what has been described as one of history’s biggest transfers of oil territory into the oil production and supply chain. Either way, whatever happens—some people have talked about output as big as 12 million barrels a day, which would make Iraq much bigger than Saudi Arabia—commercial opportunities are clearly opening out on a major scale. BP is already leading boldly with its investment in the Rumaila oilfield, although BP is currently facing nightmares elsewhere, as we have all read in the media.

In Sudan, where we have been spending—and this figure surprised me when I read it in my brief— £250 million a year on humanitarian aid and development, our hopes remain resting on the comprehensive peace agreement and, looking ahead, on the south Sudan independence referendum. In view of the heavy Chinese presence in Sudan, perhaps it would also be right to call your Lordships’ attention to the major spread of Chinese investment and trade activity, not only in Africa but worldwide, and to note that the UK is the biggest outside investor in China, while Chinese investment here is also growing rapidly. So while we stand solid on our principles in relation to human rights, we need and intend to maximise our relations with China and are happy to have inherited an already strong showing at the great Shanghai Expo, where by all accounts the British pavilion is a popular marvel.

There are numerous other dangerous and tense situations around the globe that require our attention and which doubtless we will address in the months ahead. Some require continuity of the policy of the Government from whom we have inherited them and some need vigorous new directions. I refer briefly to the many obstacles still blocking the path to a Palestinian state and to the miserable situation in Gaza. We must keep close track of the increased tension as expressed in yesterday’s and today’s papers over North Korea’s latest unprovoked act of aggression, which we deplore. We extend our sympathies over the death of 46 sailors on the torpedoed “Cheonan” vessel.

We will keep a close watch too on the renewed dangers of disintegration in the west Balkans, and we are also addressing the nexus of hazardous issues in the Horn of Africa, including the continuing piracy problem. Burma, too, we have to watch carefully, and the rearming of Hezbollah may raise tensions again in Lebanon. Meanwhile, Thailand is torn by riots and other horrors are reported daily in the media. The list, I fear, goes on and on. This is a dangerous and precarious world.

As for hopes for recovery in long-suffering and misruled Zimbabwe, we will give all the support that we can to the reformers and encourage stronger help from Zimbabwe’s neighbours, particularly South Africa. Our priorities must also include UN reform, on which we back permanent seats for Japan, India, Germany and Brazil, as well as African representation. I add what I hope is obvious to your Lordships: in all our affairs, this Government will never condone torture, complicity in torture or rendition leading to torture.

I have spoken almost long enough. I see on the list of speakers today those who are in the front rank of authority on many of the issues that I have mentioned, such as the noble Lords, Lord Alton, Lord Anderson, Lord Hannay and Lord Owen, and the noble Baroness, Lady Williams, as well as many others, all of whom offer specialist wisdom by which we should be guided.

Rather than taking more of your Lordships’ time, I conclude by saying that today our distinctive positioning in this world of major and often brutal transition can and will define and unite us here at home. It can give us what we need, which is clear purpose and identity in this nation. Strength without is strength within. Security without is security within. The two cannot be separated.

The Prime Minister has established a National Security Council to bring together strategic decisions about foreign policy, security policy and development. This will be a powerful centre of decision-making. It has already met three times in the two weeks since the coalition Government were formed and will be a major means of involving domestic departments, which have an increasingly international aspect to their work, in the pursuit of our foreign policy objectives.

It is with this underpinning that my right honourable friend the Secretary of State is moving vigorously and swiftly to see that he and his department, the Foreign and Commonwealth Office—I emphasise “Commonwealth”—work very closely with his colleagues at the Ministry of Defence and the Department for International Development to ensure the best possible co-ordination and deployment of all our overseas resources, diplomatic, military and developmental, to meet and serve the nation’s international priorities and worldwide interests and purposes effectively and efficiently. That is what this coalition intends and that is clearly what the country wants.

[Baroness Anelay of St Johns]

My Lords, my noble friend Lord Howell of Guildford was so swiftly out of the trap in his eagerness to address the House that he beat me to the Dispatch Box, so I am afraid that I have been unable so far to assist the House in explaining how one might arrive at a happy rising time of 10 o’clock. I promise to take better exercise so that I can beat him to the Dispatch Box in future. Forty-four speakers are signed up for today’s debate. If Back-Bench contributions are kept to seven minutes, the House should be able to rise this evening at around the target time of 10 o’clock.