Oral Answers to Questions

Cheryl Gillan Excerpts

Wednesday 13th December 2017 Commons Chamber

[Guto Bebb]

The position of the Government is very clear. The breakthrough last Friday means that we can move on to what is important for Welsh businesses, Welsh farmers and Welsh communities: the trade talks that are absolutely essential for us in Wales. The hon. Gentleman should congratulate the Prime Minister on her success last Friday.

[Mrs Cheryl Gillan (Chesham and Amersham) (Con)]

What are the Government doing to ensure that Wales continues to benefit from positive UK-wide announcements, such as the Toyota investment in Derbyshire and the plant at Deeside? Companies such as Toyota and Airbus are very important to the success of the Welsh economy.

[Guto Bebb]

My right hon. Friend is absolutely right, and she knows Wales extremely well. Airbus and Toyota are key parts of the north-east Wales economy, and investment in those plants, and the success in terms of the efficiency of those plants, means that they are well-placed to take advantage of the opportunities that will come our way once we leave the EU. All employees at those plants are committed to working hard to ensure that their employers have a healthy future after we leave the European Union, but that success is based on ensuring that they are also competitive in the world market.

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The Prime Minister was asked—

[Mrs Cheryl Gillan (Chesham and Amersham) (Con)]

Q1. If she will list her official engagements for Wednesday 13 December.

[The Prime Minister (Mrs Theresa May)]

This week marks the sixth-month anniversary of the Grenfell Tower fire. I will be attending the national memorial service tomorrow, and I am sure I speak for Members across the House when I say that it remains at the forefront of our minds as a truly unimaginable tragedy that should never have happened. Many who survived the fire lost everything that night, and I can assure the House that we continue to do everything we can to support those affected and to take the necessary steps to make sure it can never happen again.

This morning, I had meetings with ministerial colleagues and others. In addition to my duties in this House, I shall have further such meetings later today.

[Mrs Gillan]

I think the Prime Minister will be able to take to that memorial service the thoughts and prayers of every Member in this House, from across all parties.

My right hon. Friend has said that at the end of the Brexit process Members of Parliament will have an opportunity to vote on the deal. Can she confirm that it is still her intention to hold such a vote?

[The Prime Minister]

I am very happy to confirm to my right hon. Friend that we will put the final withdrawal agreement between the UK and the EU to a vote in both Houses of Parliament before it comes into force. As we have said, we expect the UK Parliament to vote ahead of the European Parliament, so we fully expect Parliament to vote well before March 2019. To be clear, the final deal will be agreed before we leave, and right hon. and hon. Members will get a vote on it. As my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Exiting the European Union has set out today, we will then bring forward a withdrawal agreement and implementation Bill to give the withdrawal agreement domestic legal effect, which will itself be subject to full parliamentary scrutiny. And of course, after we leave, the withdrawal agreement will be followed up by one or more agreements covering different aspects of the future relationship, and we will introduce further legislation where it is needed to implement this into UK law, providing yet another opportunity for proper parliamentary scrutiny.

Oral Answers to Questions

Cheryl Gillan Excerpts

Wednesday 1st November 2017 Commons Chamber

[Guto Bebb]

The hon. Gentleman makes an important point about the universities sector in Wales. I recently visited Bangor University and Aberystwyth University and discussed these matters. I can assure him that the Wales Office is in constant discussions with other Departments on the issues raised by the sector, including EU visas.

[Mrs Cheryl Gillan (Chesham and Amersham) (Con)]

I welcome the fact that the UK and devolved Administrations have agreed the principles on which the common frameworks will be constructed, which will be of particular interest to business groups, universities and the National Farmers Union of Wales. I encourage the Minister to continue these exchanges with the devolved Administrations, so that we can reach agreement on how the common frameworks should be established.

[Mr Speaker]

There is no obligation for the Minister’s reply to exceed a sentence.

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[The Prime Minister]

I have underlined the principle that lies behind universal credit, which I believe is a very important one. That is why when we look at the support that is given to people it is not just about the support they receive in financial terms on universal credit; it is also about the support they receive to help them to get into the workplace to ensure that they can actually meet the requirements of getting into the workplace and that when they are in the workplace they can keep more of the money they earn. That is an important principle. We will continue to roll out universal credit, looking carefully at its implementation as we do so, because we are doing this in a careful way, over a period of time. But the important principle is that universal credit is a simpler system that ensures people keep more as they earn more.

[Mrs Cheryl Gillan (Chesham and Amersham) (Con)]

Q6. In Chesham and Amersham, we are acutely aware that infrastructure is vital for economic success, particularly that of other parts of the country. However, we still have areas that do not have access to high-speed broadband, and with the advent of electric vehicles we are going to need to install an extensive charging network. What further action can the Government take to ensure the timely completion of our broadband infrastructure and what they can do to guarantee the rapid roll-out of electric vehicle charging points, so that Buckinghamshire residents and businesses do not just bear the brunt of infrastructure development, but can take advantage of the opportunities offered by modern technology?

[The Prime Minister]

My right hon. Friend is absolutely right to say that we want to ensure that we take the advantages offered by modern technology. That is why these issues have been addressed in our industrial strategy and will continue to be addressed. We recognise that when we talk about infrastructure in this country, increasingly the IT infrastructure—the broadband infrastructure—is part of that; this is not only about the physical road and rail infrastructure. So we are investing £790 million in improving broadband, taking our public investment to £1.7 billion. We are also, as she says, leading the world in the development of electric cars, and we need to ensure that we have those vehicle charging points. So we have put in place, and are putting in place, grants and policy measures to ensure that we see those charging points so that people can take advantage of those new vehicles.

Oral Answers to Questions

Cheryl Gillan Excerpts

Wednesday 6th September 2017 Commons Chamber

[Alun Cairns]

I am disappointed by the tone of the hon. Lady’s question. She is well aware of our strong record on devolution. Earlier this year, we passed the Wales Act 2017. Last December, we agreed a new fiscal framework, which gives Wales a very fair settlement, and we are trying to work as closely as possible with the Welsh Government to deliver an exit from the European Union that works for every part of the UK. Wales is obviously my interest in that.

[Mrs Cheryl Gillan (Chesham and Amersham) (Con)]

I am sure that the Secretary of State knows that the Welsh economy could be damaged by careless talk about Brexit. The public narrative from the Welsh Government is often alarmist and could even scupper future foreign investment. What can my right hon. Friend do to reassure potential foreign investors that Wales is open for business and remains a first-class destination for foreign investment?

[Alun Cairns]

My right hon. Friend is absolutely right. It is a shame that many Opposition Members and remoaners fail to recognise the opportunity that leaving the European Union creates. When my right hon. Friend the Prime Minister was in Japan just last week, she announced a deal in relation to Aston Martin—yet another significant trade arrangement with Japan on the back of those with Nissan and Toyota—and the Vale of Glamorgan and the midlands will benefit further from it.

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[The Prime Minister]

I am happy to stand by commitments on improving workers’ rights. That is something we have been doing as a Conservative Government and will continue to do, and it is something that I will continue to do as Prime Minister.

[Mrs Cheryl Gillan (Chesham and Amersham) (Con)]

Tomorrow is World Duchenne Awareness Day, which highlights this devastating muscle-wasting condition that affects young men such as my constituent Archie Hill. If, as anticipated, the current development of a more reliable newborn screening test goes ahead, psychological support must be readily available to any affected family. Will the Prime Minister assure families, and Muscular Dystrophy UK, that NHS England will develop the provision of such vital psychological support?

[The Prime Minister]

My right hon. Friend has raised an important aspect of this terrible condition. I recognise the importance of ensuring that people can access appropriate psychological support when a young family member is diagnosed with this serious health problem. On the new screening test, I understand that Muscular Dystrophy UK is working with one of NHS England’s advisory groups to understand how best to meet the needs of parents and carers following a child’s diagnosis. I am grateful to my right hon. Friend for having raised this important issue.

Oral Answers to Questions

Cheryl Gillan Excerpts

Wednesday 19th October 2016 Commons Chamber

[Guto Bebb]

I am pleased to echo the words of the Secretary of State, who highlighted the Growth Track 360 proposals. These are made in north Wales or made in north-west England proposals which will try to improve connectivity between parts of north-west England and north-east Wales. We are supportive of the proposals. I am pleased to say that this morning the Treasury wrote to the proposers in north Wales stating that support.

[Mrs Cheryl Gillan (Chesham and Amersham) (Con)]

Some £738 million has been ring-fenced for the electrification of the valley lines, although that is not expected to be completed until at least 2022 or 2023. What assurances has the Minister had that the £120 million from the European regional development fund will still be forthcoming for this project before the UK leaves the EU?

[Guto Bebb]

The situation is very clear. The proposals for the south Wales metro are part of the Cardiff city deal. They are a significant investment, and they include a contribution of around £110 million from the European fund. My understanding from the Treasury is that it will, if necessary, underwrite that element of the contribution, but if the proposals move forward in a timely manner, the European elements will be funded by the European Union.

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[The Prime Minister]

For too long, the voices of people who had been subjected to child sexual abuse went unheard and they felt that they were not getting justice. That is why it is very important that the inquiry is able to continue and to find that justice for them.

I have to say to the hon. Lady that one of the important aspects of this is that, over the years, too many people have had concerns that those in positions of power have intervened to stop them getting justice. There were stories around about the inquiry and about individuals related to the inquiry, but the Home Secretary cannot intervene on the basis of suspicion, rumour or hearsay.

The hon. Lady refers to the statement that was made in this House yesterday about information being discussed with a director general at the Home Office. She will also have noted that it was asked that that conversation would be confidential, and it was, as far as I am aware, treated as such. It is important for us to recognise that when the Home Office was officially informed of issues, it acted. It is now for the inquiry to get on and deliver for victims and survivors.

[Mrs Cheryl Gillan (Chesham and Amersham) (Con)]

Q8. Having been born in and grown up in south Wales, and as a former Secretary of State for Wales, may I associate myself with the heartfelt tributes paid by Members on the Front Bench and throughout this House to the valley community of Aberfan? That absolutely unparalleled tragedy stunned the world. Will the Prime Minister now step up to the plate, to use her own words, reconfirm her commitment to Wales and ensure that her Government work with the Welsh Government, particularly after leaving the EU, to maintain the investment that is so vital to the long-term social and economic development of the valleys communities and the rest of Wales?

[The Prime Minister]

As a former Secretary of State for Wales, my right hon. Friend is well aware of the impact of the Aberfan disaster on south Wales and those local communities. As I said in my opening remarks, the events were absolutely tragic and the thoughts of the whole House are with those affected by them. I can give the commitment that she is asking for to Wales and to working with the Welsh Government. I am clear that this Government will deliver a country that works for everyone, and that means every part of the United Kingdom. Of course, the Wales Bill will put in place a historic transfer of powers to the Welsh Assembly. It will allow the Welsh Government to focus on the job of transforming the Welsh economy and, of course, we are talking to the Welsh Government about how we go forward with negotiations for leaving the EU.

Oral Answers to Questions

Cheryl Gillan Excerpts

Wednesday 13th April 2016 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

I would say to the hon. Lady that we are doing the same kind of thing with these refuges as we did in the last Parliament with rape crisis centres. That is why the £80 million of funding is so important, and that is why my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Communities and Local Government has written to local authorities to explain that this money is available to make sure those refuges are there.

[Mrs Cheryl Gillan (Chesham and Amersham) (Con)]

As part of world autism awareness week last week, the National Autistic Society launched its biggest ever awareness campaign, called “Too Much Information”, and young Alex, the star of the film, was here in the House and met many MPs on Monday this week. The society’s research shows that some 50% of autistic people and their families sometimes do not even go out in public because they are afraid of what people think and of the public reaction to them. Will the Prime Minister meet me and the charity to discuss how the Government can support this campaign, and how we can help tackle the social isolation of so many families through this campaign and through Government assistance?

[The Prime Minister]

First, let me pay tribute to my right hon. Friend, who has been campaigning and legislating on this issue for many years now, including the landmark legislation that went through in the last Parliament. We have been working closely with the Autism Alliance and have invested some £325,000 since 2014, but she is right that more needs to be done in terms of helping families with autistic children and raising the profile and increasing the understanding of what having an autistic child or being autistic is all about. I think she is absolutely right to do that. Let me put in a plug for “The Curious Incident of the Dog in the Night-Time”, which is still on at the theatre on Whitehall. I took my children the other day. It is absolutely excellent, and will provide a better explanation of autism than perhaps anything we can discuss in this House.

Oral Answers to Questions

Cheryl Gillan Excerpts

Wednesday 13th January 2016 Commons Chamber

[Stephen Crabb]

I thank the hon. Gentleman for his question and for the spirit in which he asked it. He knows as well as we do that the steel industry right across the UK, not least in Wales, faces a global crisis. He is aware of all the different actions being taken by the Government to try to help the British and Welsh steel industry face the global nature of the crisis. I am very happy to pass on his request to the Business Secretary. We are obviously in very close contact, as is the hon. Gentleman, with Tata, and especially the plant in Port Talbot in his constituency.

[Mrs Cheryl Gillan (Chesham and Amersham) (Con)]

My right hon. Friend will know that one of the small businesses emerging in Wales is Tidal Lagoon Power Ltd, which has exciting plans for the Swansea bay tidal lagoon. The roll-out programme also includes Cardiff, Newport and north Wales. When can we expect to hear what financial support will be forthcoming from the Government so that this exciting project can proceed without delay?

Oral Answers to Questions

Cheryl Gillan Excerpts

Wednesday 3rd December 2014 Commons Chamber

[Alun Cairns]

The hon. Lady has already made that important point to my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Wales. The Secretary of State for Transport has set a minimum service requirement based on the current level of services between south Wales and London, and I have no doubt but that the hon. Lady will be a feisty champion for ensuring that those local services remain.

[Mrs Cheryl Gillan (Chesham and Amersham) (Con)]

I congratulate the Front-Bench team on securing great investment in the railways, particularly for cross-border services between England and Wales. They know that I have long supported improvement in those services. Will Ministers tell me what discussions they have had with either the Treasury or the Department for Transport on the possibility of Barnettising the investment in High Speed 2? That would make a great difference to investment in Wales.

Wales Bill

Cheryl Gillan Excerpts

Monday 31st March 2014 Commons Chamber

[Mr Jones]

The hon. Gentleman is entirely right, which is why the Government went out to further consultation before announcing their response to the commission’s recommendations. Again, these are points he would no doubt raise in the context of a referendum debate, and given the view he has just expressed, he would clearly be voting against the proposal.

[Mrs Cheryl Gillan (Chesham and Amersham) (Con)]

I congratulate the Secretary of State on introducing this Bill. I approve of virtually all its contents. I was reading a document produced by the Government in March this year on financial empowerment and accountability, and I was greatly heartened to read that if the Welsh rate of income tax is implemented following a referendum, the Government have accepted the Silk commission’s recommendation that the block grant adjustment should be determined using the index reduction mechanism originally proposed by the Holtham commission. If I remember correctly, those proposals were supported by the Labour party. It goes on to say:

“The detailed operation of the system will be discussed with the Welsh Government.”.

Surely that is the assurance that we need to hear and that will make sure Wales gets its fair share.

[Mr Jones]

My right hon. Friend is entirely right. The indexation proposals would amount to a damp, which would effectively smooth out any peaks and troughs in relation to overall UK income and act as a strong reassurance to the Assembly Government. While I am on my feet, I would like to thank my right hon. Friend for her part in commissioning the work of the Silk commission in the first place.

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[Mrs Cheryl Gillan (Chesham and Amersham) (Con)]

Rising to my feet to participate in the debate gives me a heavy attack of déjà vu. I hope my words will be slightly less curmudgeonly than those of the hon. Member for Pontypridd (Owen Smith). I give this small and elegant Bill a warm welcome, because I believe it takes Wales forward. It does so in a small, incremental step, rather than in one of those steps that allows Wales to fall into a large hole and disappear without trace. The Government are looking after the interests of Wales and the people of Wales in the Bill. Long may that continue.

As many hon. Members know, for me, the Bill is part of unfinished business that stretches back not to when I was Secretary of State for Wales, but to my appointment as shadow Secretary of State. I pay unreserved tribute to Paul Silk and members of the Silk commission. The Calman commission did not attract the Scottish National party to sit alongside other members, but I was really pleased when Plaid Cymru accepted the invitation to join the Silk commission. The participation of all the parties involved in the governance of Wales in the Silk commission has made its results more credible. I believe it will contribute towards Wales remaining part of the Union, on which most Opposition Members agree with Government Members. I also believe that the commission will contribute to Wales having increasing self-determination in certain matters, which will be good for the people of Wales and for the devolved Administration.

The trend towards more local democracy must not be at the expense of effective governance. That brings me to a point that became apparent to me over the seven years in which I carried responsibility for Welsh policy in my party. In future, I believe that a confident Wales and a confident Westminster Government should not hesitate to contemplate not only the devolution of powers, but the return of areas of competence to the supra-national Parliament, if it is the wish of those areas or institutions. There is a valid and compelling case for that course of action. That was not apparent in the Silk commission report, but by way of example, it was expressed to me while in opposition and in government, particularly from the university sector—albeit often behind closed doors for fear of repercussions—that a body of opinion wanted the re-coupling of Welsh and English universities in the interests of Wales and of education in Wales.

As we have been reminded, the constitutional position in the Bill is that we are extending the Assembly’s term of office to five years. That is probably sensible given the circumstances, but, for me, the jury is out on five-year terms. I was persuaded by the First Minister that that was the way to go because the UK Parliament introduced a five-year term and we need to avoid a clash of an Assembly election with a general election. However, I question the wisdom of that. All hon. Members know how expensive democracy and elections are. I would have liked to have seen the cost savings that would have resulted from running those elections together and any effect on turnout. It does not matter which part of the UK people are in, there is no doubt that they are being turned off by democracy—we are seeing diminishing returns of voters going to the ballot box. Perhaps running those elections at the same time would have increased participation at the ballot box. It might also have been easier to explain the relationship between the Assembly and the UK Parliament.

[Chris Bryant]

I am grateful to the right hon. Lady for giving way because I rather agree with her. Voters would probably prefer to have two elections on the same day. That would make far more sense—I have argued for it since 2010. Historically, general elections have tended to be every four years, even when we had seven-year terms, because either a Government had run out of steam or it felt right to move on and have an election. We are now moving everything towards five-year terms. My anxiety is that that is less democracy and less accountability.

[Mrs Gillan]

The hon. Gentleman makes a good point—it is unusual for us to agree on anything, as he will attest —but we need to examine the matter before we set everything finally in concrete. Those on both Front Benches and anybody involved in the business of government should keep an open mind. Rather than saying, “It will be five or seven years for ever,” we should agree to revisit the matter at some stage. Constitutional arrangements are important, but the engagement of the electorate is perhaps one of the most important aspects of democracy.

[Albert Owen (Ynys Môn) (Lab)]

The right hon. Lady talks about holding elections on the same day, but I believe she voted for the police and crime commissioner elections to be held in the autumn, leading to a low turnout. Her stance on this issue is unclear.

[Mrs Gillan]

The fact that we had those elections on a separate day and the turnout was low is part of the experience that informs what I am saying now. I want to maximise engagement with the electorate, as I am sure does the hon. Gentleman. Unlike much of the debate so far, I am not making a partisan point on this issue. It is more a question of democracy and engaging with the electorate.

[Jonathan Evans]

In the United States, the electorate does not find it difficult to elect insurance commissioners, sheriffs and a range of public officials while also choosing members of the Senate and House of Representatives.

[Mrs Gillan]

My hon. Friend is right. The trouble is that in Wales we never get a breathing space from elections. We have an election almost every year. When we looked at the timetable over the past four or five years, we were relieved of an election in only one year. There is much to be said for putting the elections on one day, but particularly the Assembly elections and the general election.

My right hon. Friend the Secretary of State will not be surprised to hear that I am sad about one particular omission from the Bill, although I will probably attract howls and squeals from both sides of the House. I am sorry that we did not take this opportunity to reduce the number of Westminster constituencies in Wales. When Scotland gained its additional primary legislative responsibilities, the Labour Government reduced the number of MPs in Scotland, and that should have happened in Wales. The job that is done at a cost of £66,396 in an English constituency is done by an MP, an Assembly Member and half a list Assembly Member in Wales, at a cost of some £147,000 in salaries alone. Democracy is expensive, but the boundary changes should have been made and the number of MPs from Wales reduced.

[Mr Hain]

Is the right hon. Lady saying that somehow Welsh MPs work less hard than they used to, or do not work as hard as she and others with English constituencies do?

[Mrs Gillan]

The former Secretary of State and I have engaged on this topic before. A constituency such as Arfon has only 41,138 electors and Chesham and Amersham has 70,000, so—in the interests of fairness and equality, the need for which is often spouted by the Opposition—we should look at equalising the number of constituents across constituencies. Democracy costs dearly—

[Mr Hain]

The right hon. Lady has not answered my question. All she has to say is yes or no. Do Welsh MPs work harder or less hard than she and her colleagues in English constituencies do?

[Mrs Gillan]

The right hon. Gentleman knows that many Welsh seats have fewer constituents than many English seats, and he also knows that many of the responsibilities are devolved—

[Mr Hain]

Yes or no?

[Mrs Gillan]

Well, the right hon. Gentleman can answer yes or no to my question. Does he think that the salary costs alone for every Welsh constituency— amounting to £147,00 compared with just over £66,000—are fair? Yes or no?

[Mr Hain]

The right hon. Lady has not answered my question. She has changed the question. She has traditionally been hostile to devolution, so she is now inventing all sorts of other issues. The simple fact is that we are not second-class MPs because we are from Wales: we are on the same level as she is, until her Government change that.

[Mrs Gillan]

I am not going to trade insults with the right hon. Gentleman. He has 57,823 constituents on the roll, as of 1 December 2010. I have never, ever said that a Welsh MP was a second-class MP, as well he knows. However, if he chooses to go down that line, I have to say that the boundary change and the reduction in the number of MPs should have been carried out and I am sorry it was blocked by vested interests.

Let me turn to the financial provisions in the Bill. I have long thought that the Welsh Assembly Government—soon to be known as the Welsh Government—should understand better and share the responsibilities of tax raising that go with the luxury of spending taxpayers’ money. I therefore welcome the steps in the Bill to bring that sense of responsibility and stronger financial accountability for Welsh Assembly Ministers, as well as the option for Welsh residents to make their views on tax powers known through a referendum.

[Geraint Davies]

I have already made the point that the secret plot is to reduce the overall block grant and then give the powers to Wales, but is not part of that plot, as the right hon. Lady is now revealing, to reduce the number of MPs, lower the voice of Wales in this Chamber asking for a fair share of national assets and say, “You can have fewer MPs and you can raise your money yourself,” so that we have a gagged set of Members here? That is all part of what she is saying, is it not?

[Mrs Gillan]

I said that there would be squealing about what I was about to say before I started that passage of my speech, and indeed there has been. The hon. Gentleman really does not do me justice with those remarks.

It has always been the case that no matter how the annual financial settlement fell, it was always possible for the Assembly to aim criticism at Westminster for tightening the purse strings. No matter where the responsibility actually lies for the poor outcomes, the finger has always been pointed towards Whitehall and Westminster. The provisions in the Bill move towards reducing the opportunity for abrogating responsibility, which, particularly in the fields of health and education, lies squarely with the Labour Administration in Cardiff Bay.

The new funding framework moves from almost exclusive block funding to two revenue streams. The block grant part will remain dependent on the Barnett formula, which, even though I believe it is nearing its sell-by date, should remain firmly in place as long as we are required to continue reducing the deficit left by the last Labour Government, particularly in the light of the convergence arrangements from the October 2012 agreement. The new funding stream of business rates and the Welsh landfill and land transaction taxes—coupled with a Welsh rate of income tax following an affirming referendum—means that the Assembly will now have a real incentive to grow the economy and more responsibility for funding its spending. However, it also means that the Assembly will have an independent revenue stream to support capital borrowing—a welcome flexibility, particularly for making decisions on infrastructure funding.

I also welcome the flexibility that the Treasury is giving to the Welsh Assembly Government on borrowing to start the much-needed improvements to the M4, as well as the cash reserve powers. The UK Government will provide the Welsh Government with the ability to pay surplus tax revenues into a cash reserve that can be drawn on when future revenues are lower than forecast. This will provide the Welsh Government with a mechanism to manage the volatility in their budget resulting from the new tax powers.

I also welcome some of the inter-governmental arrangements that spring from the Bill, including the Government’s response to the Silk commission’s part I report, in recognising the need to ensure that institutional and governance arrangements continue to be appropriate as changes are made to the financial powers of the Assembly and Welsh Government—in particular, the fact that the Office for Budget Responsibility has agreed to the Government’s formal request that it starts to forecast Welsh taxes in the autumn statement 2014 and biannually thereafter. I look forward to the Wales Office letting us know the details of the OBR’s relationship with the Assembly and the Welsh Government, which I understand will be subject to further discussions.

The Government have also agreed with the Welsh Government to set up a bilateral ministerial committee to oversee the transfer of these financial powers. I was pleased to note that an early priority for the Committee would be the consideration of further details relating to the operation of the new budgetary arrangements—including the block grant adjustments—that will accompany tax devolution, and the cash management arrangements.

I have long believed that there should be better co-operation between the Assembly and the Government, and I hope that in the future the Wales Office will consider better arrangements both inter-departmentally, within the Government, and with the Assembly. One of my great hopes is that there will eventually be a forum in which Assembly Members and Members of Parliament could sit at the same time and debate subjects that are of interest to Wales. I give the Bill a warm welcome, and I shall be following its progress in the House, because it is a major constitutional Bill for Wales.

Let me end by paying a very special tribute to a man who for many years was my “shadow” in the House of Lords, Lord Roberts of Conwy. Back in 2008, he was asked by the Prime Minister and me to conduct a review of devolution in Wales. Wyn Roberts was a terrific colleague, and he carried out that review painstakingly and after consulting a broad spectrum of opinion. The genesis of much of the Bill, and indeed the Silk commission, was in his work. Following the publication of the report, he said:

“The question of governance in Wales will eventually be settled in the broad public interest and not in anyone's partisan interest.”

I think that the Bill is another building block of Welsh governance, and it has, I hope, been presented to the House in the spirit of Wyn’s wish that the broader interest be served. I wish it a speedy passage through the House, and I offer my congratulations again to the Ministers, the Department’s officials and the Silk commission, who have, I believe, produced it in the interests of Wales.

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[Mr Hain]

I do not know what happens in the Forest of Dean, but in every other constituency if a candidate loses, they lose. If the electorate rejects them, if the voters vote against them, they lose. They do not find themselves parachuted back in to the Assembly, from which the voters have barred them, via another route.

[Mrs Gillan]

It was the right hon. Gentleman and I who sparred across the Dispatch Box on that very subject. I think he has a selective memory when it comes to the Richard commission. As I recall it, Lord Richard not only objected to the list system, but recommended that there should be 80 AMs and that Wales should move to that system and employ the single transferable vote, neither of which the right hon. Gentleman chose to take up. That is almost proof that the direction in which he took it was indeed partisan.

[Mr Hain]

Wait a minute, Madam Deputy Speaker. Far be it from me to question whether the right hon. Lady was in order with that point, but the questions about numbers of Assembly Members and a proportional representation system are not within this Bill. They have nothing to do with this Bill. What is in this Bill is restoring the ban on the abuse of dual candidature which was in the 2006 Act, and it is that point that I am addressing.

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[Mr Harper]

The right hon. Gentleman made two points, one of which I agree is an abuse, from the way he outlined it. Of course, parliamentary resources—I presume the same is true for the Assembly—are given to us by the taxpayer for parliamentary work, not party political campaigning. If that was the thrust of the Plaid Cymru document he quoted, that would have been quite wrong. He suggested that there is something wrong with candidates standing for a constituency and then being elected from a list, but that simply reflects the fact that in a list system, and certainly in the one that was put in place in Wales, it is the party label that gets a candidate elected, not their individual qualities. It seems to me that candidates getting elected by virtue of their place on a list might be a good reason for not having a list system, but it is not particularly offensive or undemocratic.

On voting for or against people, about which the right hon. Gentleman and I had an exchange, perhaps I am naive, but I happen to think that when people vote in a general election they are voting for somebody. I certainly conduct my election campaigns by trying to give people reasons to vote for me at a constituency level and reasons to vote for my right hon. Friend the Member for Witney (Mr Cameron) as Prime Minister, for example, rather than by thinking up lots of reasons why they should not vote for my opponents. I hope that is how my opponent in my constituency will conduct himself as well. That might not be what happens in Wales, but it is how I try to conduct things in my constituency.

[Mrs Gillan]

I recall that there was some reliance on work done by an organisation called the Bevan Foundation, with which Labour Members will be familiar. Part of the qualitative work it did at the time pointed out that, rather than objecting to candidates standing in a constituency and through the list system, people did not understand the electoral system itself. That was the fundamental problem at the heart of the whole electoral system that was set up for Wales.

[Mr Harper]

I suspect that my right hon. Friend, as ever, is spot on. The right hon. Member for Neath, in his lengthy speech, gave some anecdotes about one or two people who did not like the fact that a candidate who had stood in the constituency was then elected on the list, but I heard no evidence of a wider view.

[Mr Harper]

Based on what the right hon. Gentleman has just said, it sounds as if he has a number of anecdotes, but in my experience the Electoral Commission, with which I worked closely when I was the Minister with responsibility for political and constitutional reform, takes positions based on evidence. It carries out thorough research and is always scrupulous about not taking a position that could be portrayed as partisan, and it guards that reputation jealously. It does not agree with him, as he acknowledges—I have not always agreed with it—but I would put rather more weight on its views than on his.

[Mrs Gillan]

During the seven years that I was shadow Secretary of State and then Secretary of State, I travelled the length and breadth of Wales, too—usually in much less comfortable conditions—and I talked with many thousands of people right across Wales, including our candidates, and this was not at the top of their list of asks.

[Mr Harper]

As I thought, we have competing anecdotes. I suspect that my right hon. Friend, particularly as she describes the more modest circumstances in which she travelled across Wales, was rather closer to the people, so I put more weight on what she says.

Before that constitutional interlude, I was referring to the fact that my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State has taken a lot of care with this Bill. I want to put on the record my appreciation for the Welsh Affairs Committee’s excellent pre-legislative scrutiny report. The Government have obviously taken the trouble to respond to it and, as the Secretary of State said in his written ministerial statement, have accepted most of its recommendations. I think that was an excellent job. Doing pre-legislative scrutiny on a constitutional Bill is very sensible and likely to lead to a more accurate position.

Commission on Devolution in Wales

Cheryl Gillan Excerpts

Monday 18th November 2013 Commons Chamber

[Mr Jones]

I am grateful to the shadow Secretary of State for what I think was a welcome for my announcement. However, we heard the predictable preamble about Wales having been hit harder by the Government than any other part of the United Kingdom. In fact, the grant to the Welsh Government has been reduced proportionately less than that of any other Whitehall spending Department. Given that we are living in times of extreme difficulty—caused to no small extent by the last Labour Government—I should have thought that the hon. Gentleman would welcome the support that this Government have given the Welsh Government and the Welsh Assembly.

The hon. Gentleman asked a number of specific questions, the first few of which related to when the borrowing powers would be made available. I am pleased to be able to tell him that, as was announced in my written ministerial statement, the Welsh Government have already been given assurances that they can negotiate with the Treasury for borrowing powers in respect of the M4 and the north Wales expressway to take effect immediately. We will fund that by allowing the Welsh Government’s current borrowing powers to be used without any adverse impact on the departmental expenditure limit.

The hon. Gentleman welcomed the devolution of taxes. The two larger taxes that are being devolved are landfill tax and stamp duty land tax. That will of itself provide a funding stream against which the Welsh Assembly Government can borrow, but we want income tax to be devolved as well. The hon. Gentleman is right: I do support the devolution of income tax. I urge the Welsh Assembly Government to trigger the referendum as soon as they can, because the Conservative party will be campaigning vociferously for a yes vote in that referendum, and, furthermore, for a cut in income tax.

The hon. Gentleman made a point that revealed the poverty of the Labour party’s ambition. We believe that devolution should be used to give a competitive edge to Wales, and that the powers that are devolved should be used to make Wales a more prosperous place. Very far from wanting the tax cuts to apply to the wealthiest people in Wales, we would like them to apply across the board, to everybody in Wales, so that the brightest and best want to come to Wales to set up business, to make their livings and to look forward to a brighter future. That is what differentiates the Labour party from the Conservative party. Interestingly, the Welsh Finance Minister, Jane Hutt, hailed today’s announcement as

“a good deal for Wales, and a big step forward for devolution.”

However, the Eeyore-like shadow Secretary of State prefers to look for a cloud in every silver lining. He is out of step with everybody except himself.

[Mrs Cheryl Gillan (Chesham and Amersham) (Con)]

May I congratulate Paul Silk and the Silk commission on the excellent work they have done on part I? May I also heartily congratulate my right hon. Friend on his excellent response to this thoughtful piece of work? I am pleased that he has taken time in responding, because it is the right response. I am particularly delighted with the extension of borrowing powers. He will be familiar with the fact that the Welsh Assembly Government have always made excuses about why they could not improve the M4 and the A55. Does he agree with me that we should have a start-date for those improvements this week from the Labour Government down in Wales?

[Mr Jones]

May I, in turn, commend my right hon. Friend on the hard work she carried out in setting up the Silk commission in the first place? I would also like to repeat the thanks I gave in my response to the Silk commission’s recommendations for the hard work carried out by Paul Silk and his commission. The truth is, indeed, that responsibility for the maintenance and upgrade of those major routes always lay with the Welsh Assembly Government. They have in the past acknowledged that the cost of that was difficult to meet within their budget. We could not allow the deterioration of those major routes to continue indefinitely, and I therefore hope they will proceed swiftly with the upgrade of both those routes. I am pleased to see, however, that they are already consulting on the upgrade to the M4.

Oral Answers to Questions

Cheryl Gillan Excerpts

Wednesday 27th June 2012 Commons Chamber

[Andrea Leadsom (South Northamptonshire) (Con)]

1. What discussions she has had with her ministerial colleagues on the future of the 1st The Queen's Dragoon Guards, the Welsh cavalry.

[The Secretary of State for Wales (Mrs Cheryl Gillan)]

Before I answer the question, I am sure the whole House will wish to join me in paying tribute to the 10 British servicemen who have been killed in action since our last session of Welsh questions, including five who were from, or attached to, the 1st Battalion The Royal Welsh. They were courageous and talented soldiers who made the ultimate sacrifice for the safety of our nation, and we will always remember them.

The Army is conducting a study of its future force structure. The outcome of the study will be announced once decisions have been made. Until then, it is not possible to comment on which specific units may be affected.

[Andrea Leadsom]

May I urge my right hon. Friend, on behalf of the numerous constituents who have written to me about the Queen’s Dragoon Guards, to work closely with her right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Defence to try to ensure that this superb regiment is retained?

[Mrs Gillan]

I have stressed that the continuation of a strong military presence in Wales is of great importance both to the local communities and to the country as a whole. I proudly display at the entrance to Gwydyr House the emblem of the Queen’s Dragoon Guards, which celebrates the bravery and commitment of our armed forces in Wales on behalf of Queen and country. I will continue to give every support to our Welsh regiments, including the QDG.

[Nick Smith (Blaenau Gwent) (Lab)]

The feet-dragging by the Ministry of Defence over the future of the Welsh cavalry is deeply damaging to its morale. Will the Secretary of State strongly urge Defence Ministers to keep it?

[Mrs Gillan]

The hon. Gentleman is well aware that I have fully supported the Welsh cavalry—the QDG. I will take no lessons from a party which, in restructuring the Army, consigned more than 600 years of military tradition in Wales to the history books when it abolished the Royal Welch Fusiliers and the Royal Regiment of Wales to form the Royal Welsh. I, certainly, will continuously press the Welsh regiments’ case at the highest level, and the hon. Gentleman should take comfort from that.

[Mr James Gray (North Wiltshire) (Con)]

Does the Secretary of State agree that abolishing the QDG would be almost as bad as abolishing, for example, the Welsh Guards? Will she impress on her Cabinet colleagues the central importance of the regimental system to the morale and effectiveness of the British Army as a whole?

[Mrs Gillan]

My distinguished hon. Friend has himself served in the armed forces, and I agree with him entirely. On 2 June I attended the home-coming parade and the reception in Cardiff for the Queen’s Dragoon Guards as part of the Queen’s diamond jubilee celebrations, and I know that the morale of units that are so closely associated with Wales needs to continue.

[Owen Smith (Pontypridd) (Lab)]

May I first associate myself with the Secretary of State’s remarks about the sacrifice made by all the Welsh men and women who fought for this country? They should never be forgotten in the House or in the country.

I wonder whether the Secretary of State could bring herself to comment on the worrying rumours that, while the Welsh cavalry may well be saved following a campaign across the House, the price that we may pay for that is the loss of one of the battalions of the Royal Welsh, with its 700 jobs in Wales?

[Mrs Gillan]

Let me just remind the House that the last Labour Government left the MOD budget with a £38 billion black hole, and that it has been brought back into balance for the first time in a generation by this Government. I assure the hon. Gentleman—who is a Johnny-come-lately to this campaign—that I will continue to give my undiluted support to our Welsh regiments, but, as I have said, no decisions have yet been made. There is a great deal of speculation, and I do not think that the hon. Gentleman should make people feel so insecure.

[Owen Smith]

Despite the bluster, the Secretary of State’s silence on the fate of the Royal Welsh will have been heard throughout the armed forces, including those in Afghanistan, where the 1st Battalion is currently serving. Does she not agree that it will be a truly pyrrhic victory for the QDG if a cap badge is saved in Wales but we lose a battalion with several hundred jobs?

[Mrs Gillan]

I hear what the hon. Gentleman says, but let me repeat that no decisions have been made. Let me also repeat that I will take no lessons from a party that got rid of the Royal Welch Fusiliers and the Royal Regiment of Wales. I can take advice from much better people than the hon. Gentleman.

[Roger Williams (Brecon and Radnorshire) (LD)]

I, too, urge the Secretary of State to make any representations necessary to keep the Royal Welsh, because it recruits very well in its traditional recruitment areas and any loss of a battalion would limit the opportunities for young Welsh people to join an infantry regiment.

[Mrs Gillan]

I thank my hon. Friend for those remarks. As he knows, there is huge affection for all these regiments. Since the moment I was appointed as Secretary of State for Wales, I have made it my business to visit as many parts of the Army services in Wales as possible, and I continue to support the regiments. This issue is also important as we are seeking to recruit people into the reserves and the Territorial Army. These brigades are a great recruiting sergeant, and long may they continue. Certainly, I will always make that case, although the decision does not rest with this office.

[Mr Speaker]

Order. The Secretary of State is not conducting a private conversation. If she would be good enough to look in the direction of the House, we might hear her, for which we would all be deeply obliged.

--- Later in debate ---

[Andrew Miller (Ellesmere Port and Neston) (Lab)]

5. What discussions she has had with Welsh Government Ministers on the economic outlook for Wales.

[The Secretary of State for Wales (Mrs Cheryl Gillan)]

I have regular discussions with Welsh Government Ministers about the prospects of the Welsh economy and the need for closer working to help create the right environment for jobs, growth and prosperity.

[Kerry McCarthy]

Youth unemployment in my constituency has gone up by 16% in the last year—not helped by the Government’s scrapping of the future jobs fund. Is it not time that the Welsh Secretary took lessons from the Welsh Government and emulated their jobs growth scheme, started in April, with the aim of creating 4,000 jobs?

[Mrs Gillan]

I agree that if there are lessons to be learned from the Welsh Government, we must learn them, but the hon. Lady must remember that unemployment is a matter for both the UK Government and the Welsh Government, and under the last Labour Government youth unemployment in Wales rose by 73% over the Parliament.

[Robert Halfon]

Is my right hon. Friend aware of figures from the Office for National Statistics and the AA showing that more than £16 million could be injected into the Welsh economy this year alone because Labour’s 3p August rise in fuel duty has now been scrapped?

[Mrs Gillan]

Yes; my hon. Friend knows that the Government have shown that they have listened and are willing to help motorists further with their cost of living by acting at a time when the pump prices are still at historic highs and deferring the increase to January. I pay tribute to him, as he has of course played a great part in the campaign and has, in part, brought about this change by the Government, which will be welcomed throughout Wales, by businesses and families alike.

[Andrew Miller]

The Secretary of State talks about creating the right environment, and I agree with her on that. She will also recognise that in north-east Wales, Cheshire and the Wirral there is a common travel-to-work area. Will she put her support behind the campaign to improve and upgrade the Wrexham to Bidston line, as that would help to service that travel-to-work area and create the right environment?

[Mrs Gillan]

The hon. Gentleman and I used to serve on the Select Committee on Science and Technology together, and I know that he is a constant champion for improving the travel arrangements in and around his area of the country. I have always supported the Wrexham to Bidston line, but I have always prioritised the electrification of the valleys lines and of course that unfinished business of getting the electrification down to Swansea. The electrification of the Wrexham to Bidston line would be close behind that.

[Mr Mark Williams (Ceredigion) (LD)]

Tourism is a crucial sector in the Welsh economy, not least in mid-Wales and Ceredigion. The contrast between the procession of the Olympic torch and the floods that we suffered in Ceredigion could not be any starker. I am appreciative of the Secretary of State’s visit to Ceredigion last week. Will she reiterate the message that the county council gave her, which was that Ceredigion is very much open for business?

[Mrs Gillan]

I was delighted to accept the hon. Gentleman’s invitation to visit his constituency and look at the aftermath of the floods. It is when the media have left that it gets most difficult for the people who have been affected. I was impressed by the way in which that community has got itself back on its feet, and it certainly is open for business. If anyone is reading the record of or listening to these questions, they should know that his constituency of Ceredigion is one of the best places to take a holiday and that it really is open for business.

[Hywel Williams (Arfon) (PC)]

How is the mobility of Welsh labour improved if young people who are leaving the family home, getting on their bikes and taking low-paid work elsewhere are prevented from paying for their housing costs by the Government’s policy?

[Mrs Gillan]

The hon. Gentleman and I share the same concern about youth unemployment. The unemployment rate in Wales remains unacceptably high at 9%, but I would have thought that he welcomed the fall in unemployment in Wales for the fourth month in a row. It means that the economy is moving in the right direction for many of the members of the work force who are still looking for work.

[Stephen Mosley (City of Chester) (Con)]

Has my right hon. Friend considered the economic impact of having different corporation tax regimes on either side of the English-Welsh border, especially since, as we have heard, there is a single economic sub-region in Cheshire and north-east Wales?

[Mrs Gillan]

There is huge concern among the businesses that I have talked to about any prospect of changes in the corporation tax rate across the border between England and Wales. As my hon. Friend will know, that relates to the purpose of the Silk commission, which I established and which is looking particularly at the areas of taxation and accountability. I hope that it will report later this year and we will be able to see its recommendations.

[Nia Griffith (Llanelli) (Lab)]

Hard-pressed households across Wales will certainly welcome the Chancellor’s latest U-turn on the proposed August increase in fuel duty, but with Office for National Statistics figures today showing that borrowing is rocketing because this Government have created a double-dip recession, will the Secretary of State speak up for struggling businesses in Wales and the 130,000 people still looking for work, and ask the Chancellor to do a U-turn on his economic plans?

[Mrs Gillan]

I welcome the new Opposition Front-Bench team. I also pay tribute to the right hon. Member for Neath (Mr Hain), who stepped down from the Front Bench last month and will be greatly missed. I welcomed the hon. Member for Pontypridd (Owen Smith), the shadow Secretary of State, during the Welsh Grand Committee, but I would like to do so again.

I say to the hon. Member for Llanelli (Nia Griffith) that, in addition to the support we have already announced, the decision that has been made to cut the fuel duty and scrap the previous Government’s fuel duty escalator, thus ensuring that fuel duty is frozen for 21 months, will help businesses and families in Wales. I am very surprised that she did not rise to the Dispatch Box to welcome that.

[Mr Speaker]

I thank the Secretary of State for that, but we do have quite a lot of questions to get through.

[Ian Lucas (Wrexham) (Lab)]

6. What discussions she has had with Welsh Government Ministers and Assembly Members on the Green Paper on future electoral arrangements for the National Assembly for Wales; and if she will make a statement.

[The Secretary of State for Wales (Mrs Cheryl Gillan)]

I published the Green Paper on future electoral arrangements on 21 May. I have spoken to all four party leaders in the Assembly, including the First Minister, about the Green Paper.

[Ian Lucas]

The First Minister of Wales says that the Prime Minister said to him that he would not take forward changes to the Assembly voting system without the consent of the Assembly. Will the Secretary of State confirm that that is the UK Government’s position?

[Mrs Gillan]

The hon. Gentleman would have had the opportunity to discuss that at the Welsh Grand Committee on Monday at 11.30 am, but I understand that Labour objected to the relevant motion yesterday. I now know that that is because Labour MPs have a problem getting up in the morning and getting to work by 11.30 on a Monday—[Interruption.] I have therefore decided to cancel the Welsh Grand Committee and Labour now has the opportunity to call a debate in its own time.

The Prime Minister has met the First Minister on a number of occasions and I believe that that matter, among others, was discussed. I am not aware of any firm commitments made by the Prime Minister.

[Greg Mulholland (Leeds North West) (LD)]

7. What discussions she has had with ministerial colleagues and others on promoting the Welsh identity.

--- Later in debate ---

[Harriett Baldwin (West Worcestershire) (Con)]

11. What recent progress has been made by the commission on the consequences of devolution for the House of Commons.

[The Secretary of State for Wales (Mrs Cheryl Gillan)]

The commission expects to report during the current parliamentary Session.

[Harriett Baldwin]

Would the Secretary of State like to tell the House what evidence she has given to the commission?

[Mrs Gillan]

So far I have not been asked to give any evidence to the commission, but I understand that there will be a long discussion about the issue. I know that my hon. Friend is especially keen to give evidence and to provide information to the commission, and I am sure that she will have that opportunity.

[Mr Peter Hain (Neath) (Lab)]

On devolution, does the Secretary of State agree that any fundamental change to the voting system for the Assembly must at least have broad inter-party consensus and the agreement of the Welsh Government to avoid another referendum, because the system was endorsed by the 1997 referendum?

[Mrs Gillan]

I do not know whether the right hon. Gentleman was in the Chamber when I paid tribute to him, but I hope that he will read the Hansard report. We will miss him on the Front Bench.

The legislation governing any changes to the electoral voting system for the Assembly was put in place by a Labour Government. The power clearly remains here. Had the intention been different, I am sure that the right hon. Gentleman would have changed the situation himself through the Government of Wales Act 2006.

The Prime Minister was asked—