Criminal Cases Review Commission

Damian Green Excerpts

Thursday 6th June 2013 Written Statements

[The Minister for Policing and Criminal Justice (Damian Green)]

On Friday 19 October 2012 I made a written statement to Parliament announcing the triennial review of the Criminal Cases Review Commission. I am pleased to announce the conclusion of the review and publication of the report today.

Established by the Criminal Appeal Act 1995 as an executive non-departmental body in 1997, the Criminal Cases Review Commission undertakes reviews of possible miscarriages of justice in England, Wales and Northern Ireland with a view to referring appropriate cases to the courts.

The review has concluded that there is a continuing role for the Criminal Cases Review Commission and that it should continue as an executive non-departmental public body. The Commission has been assessed as having a green rating overall for the standards of corporate governance and the recommendation of the report relates to two areas where it has been identified that improvements can be made in order to more closely follow good practice for public bodies.

The triennial review has been carried out with the participation of a wide range of stakeholders and users, in addition to the commission itself the review was publicised on my Department’s website and stakeholders were invited to contribute through a call for evidence and through meetings. In addition to the project board which oversaw the review, a critical friends group challenged the evidence used to make conclusions. A peer reviewer also challenged the evidence for stage two of the review.

I am grateful to all who contributed to this triennial review. The final report has been placed in the Libraries of both Houses.

2011 Public Disorder (Compensation)

Damian Green Excerpts

Wednesday 5th June 2013 Commons Chamber

[The Minister for Policing and Criminal Justice (Damian Green)]

I thank the hon. Member for Croydon North (Mr Reed) for raising this important subject. I take this opportunity to pay tribute to his predecessor, Malcolm Wicks, who was extremely assiduous, as all those who knew him would expect, in representing the victims of the riots in his constituency before his very sad death.

I am, of course, aware that the Croydon North constituency was one of the areas most severely affected by the riots of August 2011. I, like everyone in the House, sympathise with the individuals and businesses in that area, across London and across the country that experienced losses because of the riots.

Given the tone adopted by the hon. Gentleman, it is important to make sure that we have the facts and figures on the record. I note, for example, from local media coverage in March 2013, that it was claimed that as many as 40 claims for compensation under the Riot (Damages) Act 1886 appeared to be outstanding in Croydon alone. It is simply not the case that there are 40 outstanding uninsured cases in Croydon, as only 11 uninsured cases remain unresolved nationally, nine of which are in the Metropolitan police area.

The hon. Gentleman quite reasonably brought up some figures, so I am sure it will help him and the House if I quickly run through the latest statistics on compensation payments. They show that 577 uninsured claims were originally made, of which five remain outstanding—about 1% of the original total. A further 716 uninsured claims were later received by the Metropolitan police. These were largely made after insurance companies had repudiated claims. Only six of that latter group of claims are unresolved, which is again around 1% of the original total.

The largest category of outstanding claims represent insurance companies seeking compensation from police and crime commissioners for reimbursement of settlements paid to policyholders. This does not affect individuals or businesses who have received some form of payment from their insurance company: 3,935 of these types of claim were made and 270—about 7%—are outstanding. So far, PCCs, and in London the Mayor’s Office for Policing and Crime, have paid out just over £30 million in claims.

The hon. Gentleman brought up the Government’s initial response to the riots. Indeed, through the Department for Communities and Local Government, the Government quickly set up funds to help individuals and businesses to get back on their feet, and these schemes paid out £10.8 million.

With specific reference to compensation payments under the Riot (Damages) Act, the Government took swift action by extending the application period from 14 to 42 days, by replacing the antiquated prescribed form with a simple claims form and by setting up a Home Office bureau to act as a single point of contact to advise claimants and take in applications.

From recent correspondence with Members, I am aware of a few individuals—the hon. Gentleman mentioned them—who have had to continue making mortgage payments on properties left uninhabitable by the riots. I should say that this type of loss is not covered by the Riot (Damages) Act, and I shall come on later in my speech to the inadequacies we have identified in a what is a rather old Act. I have recently written to the Council of Mortgage Lenders, which has agreed to liaise with lenders to see whether a more sympathetic approach can be taken. I am happy to assure the hon. Gentleman and other Members that my officials are working closely with them. In the end, this is a commercial decision for mortgage lenders, but as I say, we are taking action on this.

[Mr Lammy]

My hon. Friend the Member for Croydon North (Mr Reed), other Members and me have pressed this case for years with the Association of British Insurers. It must be unacceptable that people still find themselves in receipt of insufficient funds to get back on their feet.

[Damian Green]

As I say, particularly in the case of the mortgages, it is for the mortgage lenders to decide in the end, but I have explained that I am doing what I can to persuade them to take a sympathetic attitude to individuals who deserve help.

As the House will know, all those who made claims under the Riot (Damages) Act were offered sums in settlement. In case they were unhappy with their offers, the PCCs—and MOPAC in London—established a right of appeal, which a number of people have exercised. At the outset of the riots, the Government made a commitment to back the costs incurred by police forces in meeting Riot (Damages) Act costs, because that was another potential problem. We have provided that backing, and will continue to do so until the few remaining claims have been settled. So far the Government have paid some £30 million to forces to meet Riot (Damages) Act costs, as well as meeting the operational costs of policing the riots, which totalled £97 million.

[Frank Dobson (Holborn and St Pancras) (Lab)]

As the Minister knows, I think well of him. Last time I inquired, however, officialdom did not know how many claims had been met in full and how many had been met partially. Do we know yet?

[Damian Green]

I do not have the figures to hand, but if the Department has them, I will write to the right hon. Gentleman and place a copy in the Library. I assume that he is referring to insurance claims rather than to Riot (Damages) Act claims. When it comes to insurance, there are three distinct classes. First, there are the people who are fully insured and who may over-claim, As we know, there are people who always over-claim. Secondly, there are the people who have insurance but subsequently find that they are underinsured. I consider many of those cases to be among the most complex and difficult. Thirdly, there are those with no insurance. It is the second and third groups who are eligible for compensation under the Riot (Damages) Act.

It may well be that the claims of some of those people will not be met in full. No doubt the hon. Member for Croydon North will be aware that some people in Croydon have withdrawn parts of their claims. It would obviously be inappropriate for me to comment on individual cases, so I shall not do so, but I am happy to discuss the matter with the hon. Gentleman privately.

[Mr Reed]

I agree with the Minister that it is wrong to refer to individual cases, but let me draw his attention to the overall statistics. The total amount claimed was £250.1 million, and nearly two years later only £35.8 million has been paid. Is the Minister not concerned about the fact that that is a far lower proportion than would normally apply to claims for damages, even if allowance is made for normal loss adjustment?

[Damian Green]

It would concern me more if part, or all, of the claims of a large number of people had still not been met. The figures that I have given, however, show that the number of such claims is very small. Ideally, of course, we would have resolved all the claims by now, but I think that that is the key statistic. One of our main aims is to secure a complete resolution of the remaining few cases, but when there is a large batch of claims, some of those claims will always be more complex than others, and will take longer to resolve.

As I have said, many of the outstanding cases relate to claimants who were underinsured. It took time for the insurance element of those claims to be settled before the underinsurance element was submitted to PCCs or to MOPAC for consideration under the Riot (Damages) Act¸ which is why 5% of the insurance claims from small and medium-sized businesses remain outstanding after the 2011 riots.

Let me now focus specifically on what I take to be the hon. Gentleman’s central point, which is that some people have received smaller amounts of compensation. It is important to bear in mind the fact that such compensation is ultimately paid for by the taxpayer, and that claims therefore need to be properly substantiated. All uninsured claims were reviewed by loss adjusters using standards applied in the insurance industry. All victims were dealt with sympathetically. Where documents such as receipts for goods purchased were destroyed, secondary evidence was requested, such as bank statements, to substantiate lifestyle.

In addition to losses that cannot be substantiated, there are other reasons for individuals and businesses receiving less compensation than they sought. A number of claimants sought compensation for things not covered by the Act, such as personal injury, vehicle damage and business interruption. Excluding the costs associated with the reinstatement of buildings, adjustments were made downwards because claims made under the Act were assessed on an indemnity, rather than a new-for-old, basis. I take on board the point that that causes much of the disappointment, but that is the way the law is framed. In some ways this issue directly links to the purpose of the Act.

[Mr Reed]

It is more than a matter of disappointment for people who are unable to re-establish their livelihood and are therefore facing the loss of the family home because they can no longer meet the mortgage payments. The Government stood up after the riots and said nobody would lose their business or their home, so they did not intend for this to happen. Surely the Minister should act.

[Damian Green]

I was about to come on to that point. The Act is a safety net, which exists to provide some level of compensation. It should not be seen as a direct replacement for an insurance policy. The aim now is to encourage as many people as possible to obtain insurance, and we will need to look at any difficulties in that regard.

Turning specifically to Croydon, I am aware of the claims relating to the terrace on London road. The situation there is complex because of the number of people who were underinsured and because of the sums of the losses involved. Before rebuilding work can commence, it is important that most, or all, of these claims are resolved.

In recent months, the Home Office, Croydon council, the Metropolitan police, MOPAC, the insurers and the loss adjusters have been working together to finalise settlements on these claims. At the local level, Croydon council has been working with the landowners on London road to try to bring forward a suitable and appropriate development. They have already engaged with an architect to assist in this process. Meetings have also taken place between officials and MOPAC and the insurers, and the offer of a further meeting chaired by the deputy mayor for policing and crime has been proposed if it is thought that that will help speed things up. MOPAC and Croydon council, as well as the Home Office, are therefore doing their best to speed things up.

[Frank Dobson]

Surely the principle should be that if anyone lost their property or business as a result of this criminal activity, which we all deplore, the Government should say that the minutiae of the law should not be used as a way of weaselling out of compensating people, so no one loses out.

[Damian Green]

That is part of the principle of the Act, but it is not the whole point of it. The right hon. Gentleman has been a Minister and he knows that Ministers have to obey the law like everybody else.

I take the point about money, and MOPAC has been making some interim payments. I understand that about £10 million has been paid out, including some to residents of London road.

Underlying all this is the unsatisfactory nature of what is 19th century legislation. As I set out in a written ministerial statement last month, we have appointed Neil Kinghan to conduct an independent review of the Act. That has already begun and is expected to be completed by the end of September.

[Mr Lammy]

Will the Minister ask Neil Kinghan to meet Members and constituents who have been affected, because he has not got in touch so far?

[Damian Green]

Well, he only started two days ago, I think. He is very keen—

Oral Answers to Questions

Damian Green Excerpts

Tuesday 21st May 2013 Commons Chamber

[Ann Coffey (Stockport) (Lab)]

6. What recent progress he has made on the implementation of section 28 of the Youth Justice and Criminal Justice Act 1999.

[The Minister for Policing and Criminal Justice (Damian Green)]

The Ministry of Justice is actively looking at the practical issues around implementing section 28 of that Act. Putting victims and witnesses first must be a common goal for everyone working in the criminal justice system. That is why this work has involved us working closely with the judiciary, the police, the courts and the Crown Prosecution Service, and it should be completed shortly.

[Ann Coffey]

I thank the Minister for his response. One victim of child sexual exploitation was aggressively cross-examined by seven barristers for three weeks in the Telford trial. Another was repeatedly called a liar until she broke down. Justice is not served by bullying vulnerable witnesses already scarred by their experiences. When does the Minister expect to be able to report further on the implementation of section 28, which allows pre-recorded witness evidence and cross-examination outside court, making the trial process less of an ordeal for victims?

[Damian Green]

I know that the hon. Lady has a long and distinguished record of activity in this area, and I am not asking her to be patient for much longer. As I said in my initial answer, we should come to a decision shortly. This is the last of the Act’s measures to protect particularly vulnerable witnesses to be implemented. I entirely share her concern that, within the confines of having trials conducted properly, vulnerable witnesses should receive proper protection.

[Robert Flello (Stoke-on-Trent South) (Lab)]

We accept that section 28 is not easy to implement, but given the many recent appalling cases involving character assassination and the bullying of vulnerable witnesses, is it not now time to implement, as one measure, the approach proposed by many, including the Advocacy Training Council in its report “Raising the Bar”, of introducing compulsory training and certification for barristers in cases of this kind?

[Damian Green]

I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman for saying there are practical difficulties in implementing this. We are looking at a range of measures. He will be aware that our consultation on the victims’ code closed only a few days ago, and the Minister for victims, my hon. Friend the Member for Maidstone and The Weald (Mrs Grant), will be publishing a response this summer. Obviously, that must align with the witness charter as well. I hope all these things will come to fruition shortly.

[Mrs Mary Glindon (North Tyneside) (Lab)]

7. What the Government’s plans are for the future of legal aid.

--- Later in debate ---

[Mr David Anderson (Blaydon) (Lab)]

10. What support he provides for ex-service personnel in the criminal justice system.

[The Minister for Policing and Criminal Justice (Damian Green)]

Depending on their individual risks and needs, offenders with a military history are eligible for the full range of NOMS interventions and offender services. Many prisons have a designated support officer for veterans in custody. Often these officers have served in the forces themselves, and they provide support tailored to the experiences that veterans may have had while on active service. Several probation trusts have an equivalent role for support in the community. The MOD has also made its veterans mental health services available to ex-service men and women in custody.

[Mr Anderson]

Since 2008, 300 veterans have gone through the veterans treatment court system in Buffalo, New York state. Not one has reoffended. That has been so successful that 103 similar courts have been set up across the USA. Will the Minister agree to meet me and others who support this process to see whether there are lessons that we can learn from the USA and adapt for this country?

[Damian Green]

I would be happy to do that. As I hope the hon. Gentleman will have seen this morning, we are very open to new ideas throughout the criminal justice system, and spreading best practice is the way to reduce reoffending and in this case to help veterans.

[Tracey Crouch (Chatham and Aylesford) (Con)]

The Minister, sadly, missed out on an excellent visit that the Secretary of State paid to my constituency recently, when he met offenders who were on the Royal British Legion Industries scheme; they had been through the criminal justice system and are now in work. Although it is essential that a cross-departmental approach is taken to help ex-service personnel re-integrate into society to stop them entering the criminal justice system, it is even more important to do so after they have been through it. What are the Government doing to raise awareness of the schemes that are out there to provide support and help?

[Damian Green]

I am grateful to my hon. Friend, who makes a good point. As I said, spreading information about best practice is extremely important. That is the basis of many of the reforms that we are introducing through the criminal justice system. If she perceives an information gap somewhere, I will be happy to discuss this with the Minister of State, Ministry of Defence, my right hon. Friend the Member for Rayleigh and Wickford (Mr Francois), who is the Minister with responsibility for veterans and who has significant overall responsibility in this area.

[Yvonne Fovargue (Makerfield) (Lab)]

11. What steps he is taking to reduce reoffending.

--- Later in debate ---

[Dr Julian Huppert (Cambridge) (LD)]

There seem to be ways of both making substantial savings and providing a better service and improving the way in which the courts operate, particularly by using more digital information so that documents do not get lost and fail to arrive in court at the correct time. What work has the Ministry of Justice been doing to try to achieve that?

[The Minister for Policing and Criminal Justice (Damian Green)]

I completely agree with my hon. Friend that the digitisation of the whole criminal justice process, not just in the courts but including the police, is absolutely essential to ensuring not only that we continue to provide proper justice but that we do so more speedily and efficiently. A huge amount of work is going on inside the Department, and announcements will be made.

[Seema Malhotra (Feltham and Heston) (Lab/Co-op)]

The Ministry of Justice estimates that approximately 60% to 90% of young offenders have communication needs. What is it doing to increase speech and language therapy services in young offenders institutions?

Home Department

Damian Green Excerpts

Monday 13th May 2013 Ministerial Corrections

[Karl Turner]

To ask the Secretary of State for the Home Department what estimate she has made of the additional cost of police and security as a result of the recall of Parliament on 10 April 2013.

[Official Report, 18 April 2013, Vol. 561, c. 502W.]

Letter of correction from Damian Green:

An error has been identified in the written answer given to the hon. Member for Kingston upon Hull East (Karl Turner) on 18 April 2013.

The full answer given was as follows:

[Damian Green]

This information is not collected centrally. The cost of security services on the parliamentary estate is a matter for the Independent Parliamentary Standards Authority (IPSA).

The correct answer should have been:

[Damian Green]

This information is not collected centrally. The cost of security services on the parliamentary estate is a matter for the parliamentary authorities.

Riot (Damages) Act 1886

Damian Green Excerpts

Thursday 9th May 2013 Written Statements

[The Minister for Policing and Criminal Justice (Damian Green)]

The Home Secretary has commissioned an independent review of the Riot (Damages) Act 1886. This will be led by Neil Kinghan and is expected to conclude by the end of September 2013.

The review will examine the existing criteria which determine when compensation is payable under the Riot (Damages) Act. This includes looking at key issues involving the definition of a riot, who should be liable and what level of entitlement should be afforded under the Act.

Police Cautions (Young People)

Damian Green Excerpts

Wednesday 17th April 2013 Westminster Hall

[The Minister for Policing and Criminal Justice (Damian Green)]

It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Mr Gray, I think for the first time. I congratulate my hon. Friend the Member for Winchester (Steve Brine) not only on securing the debate, but on his admirable and in my experience unprecedented brevity in not filling up the entire time available to him. I appreciate his interest not only generally, as a member of the Justice Committee, which has indeed pronounced on the matter recently, but particularly, in the individual case that brought the issue to his attention. I will deal with that later in my speech.

On the generalities, the youth justice system is focused on early intervention and on diversion of children and young people from formal disposals where that is appropriate. In recent times, there has been an increase in the use of informal disposals by the police and an adoption of restorative justice approaches, which I strongly support. All police forces now have trained restorative justice facilitators, and an on-the-spot restorative action can often provide the best disposal when a minor, usually first-time misdemeanour is committed. Such an approach can also be beneficial to the victim, who gets immediate reparation from the young person who has committed the offence. There has been a significant reduction in the use of formal disposals by the police over recent years. Since 2001-02, there has been a 57% fall in the number of reprimands, final warnings and conditional cautions given to young people in England and Wales: 40,757 were given in 2011-12, compared with 94,836 in 2001-02.

[Jeremy Corbyn (Islington North) (Lab)]

I congratulate the hon. Member for Winchester (Steve Brine) on his contribution. My right hon. Friend the Member for Warley (Mr Spellar) made a good intervention, which I support absolutely. People in inner city areas such as the one that I represent, and in particular minority ethnic youths in those areas, seem to have a disproportionately high chance of being stopped and searched, of getting formal cautions and therefore of being impeded in getting work in the future. Will the Minister look into the geographical breakdown of the cautions given and the operational guidance given to police forces? I, of course, support the much earlier write-off of cautions to preserve the career opportunities of all our young people.

[Damian Green]

The hon. Gentleman might be aware that we are conducting a cautions review at the moment, so feeding into that is important. As I am about to explain in detail, we are concerned to encourage the use of out-of-court disposals but to ensure that, first, the length of time for which they are active beyond the period of the commission of the offence is properly limited and that, at the same time, they provide confidence in the wider justice system and in particular a feeling among victims that appropriate reparation has been made. That is the balance to be struck.

[Mr Spellar]

The initiatives that the Minister is announcing are useful and heading in the right direction, but we might be getting away slightly from the core of the issue: misdemeanours or offences committed at a young age, whether leading to cautions or convictions and minor punishments, can blight people’s lives. We saw that, in particular, with the elections for police and crime commissioners, when a number of individuals of all political parties were prevented from standing 40 or 50 years after committing the offences. That should have highlighted the necessity of taking action, to prevent them from appearing on people’s records and their life being affected.

[Damian Green]

The right hon. Gentleman is right; that was certainly a vivid example of the long-lasting effect. I gently point out, however, that that legislation was passed by the House over the past couple of years entirely unopposed.

[Mr Spellar]

All parties made a mistake.

[Damian Green]

However, the time for which an offence should hang over a young person or anyone else is contentious, and we must be careful to strike a balance. Ensuring appropriate punishment and particularly appropriate reparation for victims, so that they have confidence in the system, form the other half of the balance that I am sure all hon. Members want to strike.

[Gareth Johnson (Dartford) (Con)]

The Minister makes a valid point about the public’s confidence being undermined by using cautions. Does he agree that confidence might also be lost when cautions are repetitively given to offenders with a view to improving the clear-up figures?

[Damian Green]

I would be interested to know whether my hon. Friend has evidence that cautions are used to improve clear-up figures. The answer to his general point is that, yes, I agree that the repetitive use of cautions may damage confidence in the system. One reason why we are looking at the whole system of cautions is precisely to avoid such damage to confidence.

A youth caution may be given for any offence that the young offender admits when there is sufficient evidence for a realistic prospect of conviction but it is not in the public interest to prosecute. The flexibility provided by the youth caution allows the police greater discretion to offer a disposal that is appropriate to the circumstances of the offence and offender, rather than being arbitrarily determined by previous disposals or convictions.

We have retained in the youth caution the critical elements of assessment and intervention inherent in the final warning scheme. The youth offending team will be obliged to assess and, unless considered inappropriate, to put a rehabilitation programme in place when a young person has received a second or subsequent youth caution. That reflects the current threshold of obligatory assessment following a warning and is designed to prevent a return to precisely the repeat cautioning to which my hon. Friend referred. Unlike reprimands and warnings, the youth caution does not have a fixed limit on the number that may be administered, and it may be used if a young person has previously been convicted. That allows the police to use discretion, in consultation with the youth offending team, and to avoid an unnecessary court process if that is not merited.

Introducing a flexible youth caution that can be used more than once should help young people when seeking future gainful employment despite a minor misdemeanour that is causing concern. The youth caution becomes spent immediately, so there is no requirement for the young person to disclose that they have received one, unless they are seeking employment in an occupation listed in the Rehabilitation of Offenders Act 1974 (Exceptions) Order 1975, such as working with children or other vulnerable people.

The Legal Aid, Sentencing and Punishment of Offenders Act 2012 revised the youth conditional caution. We reduced unnecessary bureaucracy by giving the police power to authorise youth conditional cautions without the need to seek the authorisation of a prosecutor. The police can now offer a youth conditional caution with input from a youth offending team as at present but without the need for agreement from the Crown Prosecution Service. The youth offending team’s role is now statutory to provide a check on the appropriateness of the disposal and will also allow the YOT to apply for a parenting order if necessary.

Conditional cautions require offenders to take responsibility for their actions, including agreement to conditions that require them to put things right or to seek help for their behaviour. It is important to recognise the role of the victim and to ensure that they have proper redress through such an out-of-court disposal. Since 8 April, the revised youth conditional caution has been available to all 10 to 17-year-olds throughout England and Wales. The youth conditional caution has a three-month rehabilitation period to allow for the conditions to be completed, but offers similar benefits to the youth caution in becoming spent rapidly and therefore not subject to disclosure for most purposes.

The third change to that sort of disposal in the 2012 Act was to abolish penalty notices for disorder for 10 to 17-year-olds. Penalty notices can be an effective deterrent and provide resolution of offences for adult offenders, but we believe they are less effective for young people. The principal aim of the youth justice system is to prevent offending by young people. For that age group, we believe it is more effective to use out-of-court disposals involving assessment and intervention by the local youth offending team than fixed penalties.

Other legislation that is centrally important to the matters that the debate gives rise to is the Rehabilitation of Offenders Act 1974, which has an important role in helping those who have a criminal conviction but have put criminality behind them. From the tone of the debate, it is clear that many hon. Members believe that it is important to provide individuals with the opportunity to leave behind mistakes that they made when they were young. Minor offending behaviour committed when the offender was immature should not blight their prospects. That is recognised in the fact that rehabilitation periods are generally shorter for under-eights than for adults. Most crime committed by young people is relatively minor and often results in the out-of-court disposals or fines that I am talking about. A significant proportion of the population have had a conviction at some point in their lives, but few of them pose a serious risk of harm to the public. I am sure that we all agree that it is in society’s interest that ex-offenders are given the chance to reintegrate into their communities and lead law-abiding lives.

My hon. Friend the Member for Winchester referred to a recent Court of Appeal judgment that found that both the current exceptions order to the Rehabilitation of Offenders Act 1974 and part V of the Police Act 1997 are unlawful. That is because they provide for blanket disclosure of all spent convictions and cautions regardless of how old or minor they may be. In response to that judgment—my hon. Friend raised this point specifically —we are amending the exceptions order. We are proposing that certain spent disposals will no longer be subject to disclosure under that order after a specified period, which will be shorter for young offenders than for adults.

Public protection and safeguarding obviously remain primary concerns, and for that reason disposals for specified sexual and violent offences and other offences relevant to safeguarding will always be subject to standard or enhanced disclosure. Any offence resulting in a custodial sentence will continue to be subject to disclosure. Those measures are necessary to maintain public protection, and I suspect that there is agreement on that on both sides of the Chamber.

For other offences, cautions and minor convictions will no longer be subject to disclosure, nor will they be able to be taken into account by an employer after a certain period. Cautions and equivalents administered to a young offender for a non-specified offence will no longer be subject to disclosure under the exceptions order after two years. Secondary legislation containing those provisions has been laid before Parliament and will be subject to the affirmative process. My hon. Friend wanted a detailed timetable, but he has been here long enough to know that such business management goes on behind closed doors.

[Steve Brine]

I have been here a while now and I cannot wait to be on another Committee. The Minister may be coming to this, but will he refer to retrospection of the order?

[Damian Green]

The changes to the Rehabilitation of Offenders Act 1974 will have retrospective effect. I will come to the case of my hon. Friend’s constituent, but I can give him that general reassurance.

Employers have a key role in how criminal record information is treated, and they should have a fair and objective policy on the recruitment of ex-offenders. It is important that they should consider the circumstances and relevance of a spent, or unspent, conviction where that is disclosed. That should include taking into account the age of the person at the time, the disposal received and what the person has done in the meantime. Of course, we encourage employers to adopt that fair approach, which is critical in assisting ex-offenders in obtaining gainful employment and, therefore, helping their rehabilitation. It ought to go without saying—but it is worth mentioning—that a minor youthful indiscretion should clearly not be a barrier to employment in later life.

Turning to my hon. Friend’s constituent, I understand that she received a caution for theft aged 15 but now wishes to pursue a career as a lawyer. That is an occupation listed on the exceptions order and therefore disclosure of spent cautions and convictions can be requested and an employer can take them into account. As he said, she has been advised that her caution means that she may not be accepted to practise law. However, I am pleased to say that, from his description of the case, it appears that she will benefit from our proposed amendment to the exceptions order. As I have said, under the proposals, a caution received as a young person for a non-specified offence, which includes theft, will no longer be subject to disclosure, nor will an employer be able to take it into account, after a period of two years. I should be clear that the caution will nevertheless remain on the record, but the changes to the exceptions order will specifically address his constituent’s case. Clearly, there are circumstances in which the disclosure of all cautions and convictions may still be required, such as in subsequent court proceedings.

Returning to the use of out-of-court disposals in general, we know that it is important to consider the need to provide assurance to the public that they are being used appropriately and proportionately. We very much recognise the concern of the public and that expressed in the recent Justice Committee report about the proper use of out-of-court disposals. The Chairman of the Committee, my right hon. Friend the Member for Berwick-upon-Tweed (Sir Alan Beith), is here, and I thank the Committee for contributing to a thought process that has led to our review of simple cautions. The Ministry of Justice, the Home Office and the Attorney-General’s office will be working closely with the police and the Crown Prosecution Service, as well as taking the views of practitioners across the criminal justice system.

The review is considering a number of issues: the existing guidance and practice relating to the use of simple cautions; whether there are some offence types for which the use of simply cautions is generally inappropriate—and if so, what procedures we should adopt; the reasons why multiple cautions have been given to some criminals; the difference in the use of cautions by different police forces and whether increased scrutiny is needed to ensure that they are used consistently; and the impact on individuals of accepting a caution, including any potential impact on future employment. I take the point that was raised by a couple of hon. Members in the debate on whether the use of such disposals may have a disproportionate impact on different communities.

I should make it clear that, although the review into cautions is focused on adult simple cautioning, it will consider aspects of youth cautioning and adult conditional cautioning, where there is good reason to do so. The Justice Committee expressed concern about the provision of oversight and scrutiny of how the police are using out-of-court disposals, so I hope that the various Committee members who are here at the moment will welcome our commitment to look into the matter further.

I make it clear that the Government believe that out-of-court disposals have an important part to play in the youth justice system, because they can provide a quick and effective resolution to a crime for the victim, which a court case might not. My hon. Friend the Member for Winchester asked a specific question about the Government seeking leave to appeal to the Supreme Court. We consider that the terms of the judgment are simply too broad, but, as I have mentioned, the orders that we laid before Parliament on 26 March can be taken as our response to the judgment, and the orders will come into force when they are approved by the House.

More generally, the provisions in the LASPO Act that came into effect earlier this month have significantly simplified the youth out-of-court disposals framework, by providing clearer and simpler decision-making for practitioners, a greater understanding for the public of how the disposals fit together and the circumstances in which they are used—

[Mr James Gray (in the Chair)]

Order. I apologise for interrupting the Minister, but the clock dictates that I should do so. We now come to the next debate.

Police Community Support Officers

Damian Green Excerpts

Tuesday 19th March 2013 Westminster Hall

[The Minister for Policing and Criminal Justice (Damian Green)]

I congratulate the hon. Member for Wrexham (Ian Lucas) on securing the debate. I am happy to discuss the powers of police community support officers with him and to deal with some of the issues he raised. He started with the particular and moved out to the general. In the interests of symmetry, I will start with the general and move to the particular, and end by addressing the issues at the school. As the hon. Gentleman said, he and I have corresponded on the matter. In believing that PCSOs do an important job very well, there will be not a jot of difference between us.

I will put the debate in the context of the Government’s wider police reform agenda. On entering office, the Government set the police a challenge: we asked forces to cut crime and at the same time undergo a radical programme of reform. The central objective of the reform is to re-establish the link between the police and the public, reflecting Sir Robert Peel’s principle that the police must answer to the people they serve. The reform of the crime and policing landscape is to ensure that policing is reconnected to the public and is sustainable, stronger and successful in pursuit of its core mission.

We have achieved that in a number of ways. First, we scrapped national targets, as the Government believe that policing must be responsive to local concerns. Priorities are now set by police and crime commissioners in consultation with the public who elect them. That approach is the embodiment of democratic accountability. The hon. Gentleman correctly talked about localism, which that approach embodies in that Whitehall is withdrawing from interfering in matters that should be determined locally.

Secondly, we have provided the public with better information about crime in their area. There is now clear, transparent and accessible information for the public. I am sure the hon. Gentleman has heard of police.uk, which I hope he is an avid user of. That website is a phenomenal success: it has received more than 548 million hits since its launch, equating to a daily average of more than 200,000. That demonstrates the public’s appetite to know what is happening in their communities and on their streets.

Thirdly, we have changed how forces are held to account, through police and crime commissioners. The Government have ensured that the public, not bureaucrats, are the judges of police success. The PCC will be held to account by the public for the delivery of effective policing. Alongside that, new roles for key policing partners have been carved out. In the new landscape we have legislated to make Her Majesty’s inspectorate of constabulary more robustly independent, so that it acts directly in the public interest. The Independent Police Complaints Commission will continue to be responsible for ensuring that complaints against the police are dealt with effectively.

Hon. Members will be aware of the Home Secretary’s commitment to strengthen the IPCC’s ability to investigate serious complaints. That is a complex piece of work involving the transfer of resources from force professional standards units to the IPCC, but it will bolster the public’s confidence in the complaints system.

Lastly, the Government are supporting the professional development of police officers and staff. The College of Policing is independent of the Government and will not focus solely on supporting warranted police officers. Its remit will include setting standards for the professionalisation of all officers and staff.

The reform programme prioritises local communities. It places the public at the heart of policing. Neighbourhood policing is, therefore, a core part of the programme. Every neighbourhood in the country has a local policing team designed to work openly and in partnership with all members of their community. Every Member of this House understands the importance of ensuring that the public have a visible uniformed police presence in their community, working alongside them to identify and tackle the issues that matter to them.

The Government have supported that approach by introducing the locally elected PCCs, by ensuring that the police engage directly with their local communities through regular beat meetings, and by publishing street-level crime and antisocial behaviour information through police.uk. That focus on local accessibility, transparency, accountability and engagement will enable the public to support, and challenge, local police activity.

That brings me specifically to PCSOs. Neighbourhood policing has transformed how communities experience and relate to policing, and PCSOs are a vital component of that approach. They are now key to the public face of policing. I am delighted to hear that the hon. Gentleman served on the Committee that scrutinised the legislation. PCSOs were a good idea and it is now acknowledged on all sides that they are an integral part of the neighbourhood policing landscape that we want to see. They provide a valuable uniformed presence in communities. Their ability to spend time getting to know their local area means that they can understand and identify local priorities, solve local problems and low-level crime, and engage with local communities. They bring key skills, values and diversity to policing.

[Jessica Morden (Newport East) (Lab)]

My hon. Friend the Member for Wrexham (Ian Lucas) mentioned the powers of PCSOs and it seems that the Minister is moving towards agreement with him. My hon. Friend agrees that it is important that PCSOs are very representative of the communities they serve. Therefore, does the Minister welcome the approach of Gwent police in appointing more part-time PCSOs, allowing more women with child care responsibilities, for example, to work flexibly? That has meant that a different kind of person can become a PCSO.

[Damian Green]

I welcome that for two reasons. First, I am committed to trying to improve the diversity, not just of warranted police officers but of PCSOs. I think it was the new president of the Police Superintendents Association who made that point; the police have not moved as far as some other institutions in developing diversity and they need to do better. I am extremely supportive of practical steps to make that happen.

Secondly, the kind of local initiative that the hon. Lady describes is precisely what I want to see. I do not want to sit here—nor have any other policing Minister—dictating to different forces around the country what their priorities must be. Initiatives that come from the bottom up through the forces themselves at the behest of the PCCs will be the best way to ensure that each force is responsive to the local needs of its community. I am happy to welcome that initiative of the Gwent police. I had a good visit there a few months ago, seeing what they were doing to engage with the community in Newport. It is clearly an innovative force.

Providing visibility on the streets is also a key strength of the role of PCSOs. According to the results of the recent crime survey for England and Wales, over half of all adults say that they see the police or PCSOs on foot patrol in their local area at least every month. There are some very inspiring stories of what individual PCSOs are doing to engage with and respond to the individual needs of their communities.

In the Isles of Scilly, PCSO Bev Faull has been awarded a citation for her work with migrant workers. For the past three years, she has focused on helping the county’s eastern European migrants, effectively planning and running multi-agency operations to tackle exploitation of workers in west Cornwall.

In Shinfield, near Reading in Berkshire, Suzie Carr was awarded Thames Valley’s PCSO of the year, in recognition of the excellent community relationships she built while launching her “Wrong place, wrong time” youth project. It is interesting to note that the award scheme is by public vote, so she was praised by the local residents of the community in which she patrols for the positive impact of her work.

I have one final example from Solihull. Riccardo Gambino was named the region’s PCSO of the year for setting up 13 neighbourhood watch schemes during 2012. What is interesting about Mr Gambino is that he was a police officer for 11 years but gave up his warrant to become a PCSO because he thought that he could better serve his community as a PCSO, specifically because what was most important to him was the emphasis on engagement.

Those are three very good examples of the work undertaken by PCSOs. As of September 2012, there were nearly 14,500 PCSOs, and I am confident that each of them is taking positive steps to engage with their community, having an impact on people’s lives. It is a back-to-roots role, unique within the police service for its emphasis on accessibility and engagement, acting as a complement to, not a replacement for, the enforcement role of sworn warranted officers. That gets to the heart of the hon. Gentleman’s point, because we are determined to maintain the difference of the role.

Of course, there might well be changes and there have been changes in the past. We believe strongly in delegating local funding decisions, for example, to PCCs, which is why the neighbourhood policing fund, which historically funded such officers, is subsumed into the police main grant from next month. It will then be for police and crime commissioners, in consultation with individual chief constables, to take decisions on resourcing and deployment of PCSOs based on local assessments of need and risk. That is right, and I anticipate that this will make forces even more responsive to local concerns and priorities.

[Rehman Chishti (Gillingham and Rainham) (Con)]

The Minister says that it will be up to police and crime commissioners to make decisions about the needs of their communities. Will he pay tribute to the Kent police and crime commissioner, Ann Barnes, who is increasing PCSOs by 60 as well as having an extra 20 police constables on the streets of Kent?

[Damian Green]

As a fellow Kent MP, I am delighted that we will have more PCSOs and police officers on the streets of Kent in the coming years. I am happy to join my hon. Friend in his remarks.

I will now move on to the powers available to PCSOs, which are, as the hon. Member for Wrexham said, set out in the Police Reform Act 2002. All PCSOs are issued with 20 standard powers that enable them to deal with antisocial and nuisance behaviour in neighbourhoods. In addition, there is a list of discretionary powers that can be designated to PCSOs by chief constables in response to local requirements. The discretionary nature of the additional powers is important and goes to the heart of the notion of neighbourhood policing, which, at its core, is to ensure that policing responds to the needs of local communities. Discretionary powers ensure that PCSOs are flexible, as they bestow on chief constables the authority to take the necessary steps to ensure that their PCSOs are suitably empowered to deal with the issues that are of most concern to local residents. The Government believe that these limited and flexible powers are one of the key strengths of PCSOs, providing them with the time and space necessary to get to know their local area and actively to engage and build relationships with communities.

I am happy to assure the hon. Gentleman that the powers available to PCSOs remain under constant review, and we are always willing to look at ideas, but we need to ensure we strike the right balance and do not overburden them. The Government welcome consideration of revisions to the powers where it is clear that they will enhance, rather than undermine, this important role. The draft Anti-Social Behaviour Bill, for example, proposes the introduction of a new dispersal power for PCSOs. That will replace two existing powers and will allow uniformed police officers and PCSOs to direct a person who has committed, or is likely to commit, antisocial behaviour to leave a specified area and not return for a specified period of up to 48 hours.

We must be cautious not to overburden PCSOs with powers that could introduce bureaucracy to the role, taking them away from providing the visible presence on the streets that we want. Extending the scope of existing PCSO powers could introduce to the role an unwelcome element of confrontation that is associated with the power of arrest and is outside the PCSO’s unique role. Many, in fact, see the power of arrest as a last—not a first—resort, preferring instead to focus on being proactive and preventive. Therefore, we need to ensure that we give full consideration to the issues around extending PCSO powers.

That lies at the heart of what might fall between the hon. Member for Wrexham and me. He quoted selectively from part of the letter that I wrote to him last November, so it falls to me to read the rest of it. He is right that I said that

“the principal role for PCSOs is as part of neighbourhood policing teams, connecting and engaging with their local community, as opposed to managing parking restrictions which is a matter for the Local Authority.”

He generously acknowledged that that is indeed the role of the local authority. I continued by saying that extending PCSO powers risks undermining that central role. From the letter he wrote on its behalf, I appreciate that Offa community council would want that power, but I said in my letter that that

“may not be true for all communities and legislating for such a change at a national level would not necessarily be uncontroversial.”

[Ian Lucas]

I accept that the move would not necessarily be uncontroversial, but I was clear about ensuring that it was a discretionary power that would be given to the chief constable. Will the Minister accept, therefore, that it is entirely appropriate for the Government to consult on whether to do that?

[Damian Green]

As I said, we published the draft Anti-Social Behaviour Bill. I know that antisocial behaviour is a term of art, but I am sure that parking dangerously outside a school can be regarded, certainly in non-legal terms, as antisocial behaviour, so the community council may want to contribute to the debate on that. The hon. Gentleman has already said that the extension of PCSO powers would require primary legislation, so, by definition, there will be no quick fix. He said that not having national legislation on this matter is the sort of thing that brings politics into disrepute, but I beg to differ. What brings politics into disrepute is insisting that every problem has to have a national legislative solution. This is clearly a local problem, although one that I dare say is replicated in various parts of each of our constituencies. Each local solution will be different.

[Nia Griffith (Llanelli) (Lab)]

Does the Minister agree that being confronted by someone who has powers and then finding that someone in a similar uniform does not have powers elsewhere is confusing for motorists? That could lead to unpleasant situations with motorists being unnecessarily rude. There is no excuse for rudeness, but it will be more confusing. People should never do the wrong thing in the first place, but we do not want to set up confrontation.

[Damian Green]

That is a fair point. There is clearly a balance to be struck between national and local powers, but we hold PCSOs in high regard precisely because they might well have different powers in different areas. The hon. Lady is absolutely right that people—motorists in this case—behaving in an antisocial way lies at the root of all this.

--- Later in debate ---

[Damian Green]

Let me make a specific point about the situation that the hon. Member for Wrexham described at the start of the debate, and then conclude with a general point. Pondering it in our interregnum, it occurred to me that of all the parking issues, parking outside schools is probably the easiest to solve. It is overwhelmingly likely to involve parents, so if the PCSO turned up with a traffic warden or police officer and ticketed everyone, they probably would not do it again. If they turned up twice over the course of a couple of weeks, they certainly would not do it again. Therefore, it is a prime example of where we can use the PCSO’s power and detailed local knowledge to bring to bear the forces of law and order in a way that would prevent future crime. As I said, that would be a good example of how to use the specific virtues of PCSOs, with the powers that they have, and also, their ability to relate to local conditions.

We continue to look for opportunities to enable PCSOs to be used to their full potential.

[Ian Lucas]

Does the Minister not see that he is preventing a local solution that all parties want to implement in this particular case?

--- Later in debate ---

[Damian Green]

I do not think that I am. The solution that I have just suggested could be operated tomorrow, whereas the hon. Gentleman’s solution is to have primary legislation, which he knows would take months or years, and might well be opposed by many people around the country. There would also be practical issues if, as the hon. Member for Llanelli (Nia Griffith)said, people got violent. A PCSO does not have powers of arrest, so in such a situation, it would not be suitable for a PCSO to become engaged.

Often, we should look for the simplest, most practical solutions, but the overall PCSO role reflects a core aim of the Government’s police reform programme—that of reconnecting policing with the public—and I am confident that the value of PCSOs will continue to be recognised by PCCs, chief constables, and most of all, by the public, because they do an enormously good job in all our local communities.

Question put and agreed to.

Oral Answers to Questions

Damian Green Excerpts

Tuesday 19th March 2013 Commons Chamber

[Andy Sawford (Corby) (Lab/Co-op)]

4. What recent assessment he has made of reoffending rates; and if he will make a statement.

[The Minister for Policing and Criminal Justice (Damian Green)]

Reoffending has been too high for too long; 47.2% of those released from custody in the year to March 2011 reoffended within a year.

We want to reduce reoffending and extend rehabilitation services to those who need it. Our recent consultation on reforming the way offenders are rehabilitated in the community set out our plans for this area.

[Andy Sawford]

Northamptonshire probation trust has a great record of reducing reoffending, and local probation workers are shocked that the Government intend to put its core work out to tender. Will the Minister confirm whether, if the trust sets up a special purpose vehicle to bid, that will be ultra vires as the National Offender Management Service has suggested, and whether the staff involved would have to resign first?

[Damian Green]

I am happy to reassure the hon. Gentleman that not only would that not be disallowed, the Cabinet Office is providing advice for probation trusts that want to do that.

[Mr David Nuttall (Bury North) (Con)]

Does the Minister agree that long prison sentences are more successful in deterring reoffending than short sentences?

[Damian Green]

Those who are sentenced to less than 12 months certainly have a higher propensity to reoffend—57% as opposed to 47%—but the length of a sentence is dictated by the seriousness of the offence. A failure in the current system, which the scheme that we are introducing will address, is that those who come out after a shorter sentence have no rehabilitation. We will provide that under the new system, and we hope and expect that that will bring down the reoffending rate among precisely the group he complains about.

[Kate Green (Stretford and Urmston) (Lab)]

Will the Minister acknowledge that preventing reoffending among women requires the provision of specialist and specifically targeted and designed services to meet their holistic needs within the context of the criminal justice system? What steps will Ministers take to ensure that the payment-by-results model will protect that specialist provision for women?

[Damian Green]

The precise point of the payment-by-results system and of bringing new people into the system will be to allow providers with specialist skills—for example, in dealing with women offenders—to bring those abilities, skills and experience to bear so that we have much more targeted and tailored rehabilitation than in the past. Specific groups, including obviously women offenders, will be rehabilitated more effectively in the future.

[Stephen Metcalfe (South Basildon and East Thurrock) (Con)]

Seven out of 10 young people released from prison go on to reoffend within 12 months. Despite all the best efforts of those involved in the current system, it is obvious that it is failing. What does the Minister intend to do to improve the situation?

[Damian Green]

As my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State explained, we completely agree with my hon. Friend’s analysis that the current system is not good enough. Reoffending rates have been broadly flat for the last 10 years, despite an enormous increase in public spending in that area. We want to introduce payment by results, new ideas, new people and new providers not just so that more people are rehabilitated after they leave prison, but so that the rehabilitation system is better and more targeted.

[Steve Brine (Winchester) (Con)]

5. What plans he has to prevent young people from entering the criminal justice system.

--- Later in debate ---

[Philip Davies (Shipley) (Con)]

14. How many people convicted of robbery were not sent to prison in each of the last three years.

[The Minister for Policing and Criminal Justice (Damian Green)]

In 2009, 3,509 people were not given an immediate custodial sentence for robbery. In 2010, that figure was 3,568 and, in 2011, 3,710. The majority of those were young offenders. However, in the same period, nearly 16,000 offenders were sent to custody for robbery. Robbery is a serious crime carrying a maximum penalty of life imprisonment. Armed robbery is on the list of offences which can attract a “two strikes” mandatory life sentence.

[Philip Davies]

Recently, John Calvert was convicted of mugging a woman student in Bradford city centre. At the time of his offence, he was on a 12-month intensive community order for robbing a 13-year-old girl of her mobile phone. Is the Minister proud of presiding over a criminal justice system that allows dangerous offenders committing those kinds of street robberies to walk free from prison and to go out and commit other crimes across the Bradford district?

[Damian Green]

My hon. Friend would not expect me to comment on individual cases. I am happy to reassure him that the sentencing guideline on robbery states that the offence will usually merit a custodial sentence but that exceptional circumstances may justify a non-custodial penalty for an adult or, more frequently, for a young offender. However, sentencing in individual cases is a matter for the courts. I hope that he will join me in welcoming the fact that it is a matter for the courts, rather than for politicians.

[Mr Barry Sheerman (Huddersfield) (Lab/Co-op)]

May I press the Minister on this matter? We know that serial burglars are not locked up but is it right that Vicky Pryce and Chris Huhne should be imprisoned when it would have been much better if they had been given a community sentence and were working in the community?

[Damian Green]

The hon. Gentleman is slightly suggesting that politicians should set sentences. I am happy to reassure him that the average sentence for burglary is going up—if he wishes that to happen, I can assure him that it is happening. The adult custodial rate for robbery in 2011, the last year for which figures are available, was 84.3%, so the vast majority of people who commit robbery do end up in jail.

[Mr Gregory Campbell (East Londonderry) (DUP)]

According to the figures that the Minister has just given, 100 more people in each of the last three years were not sentenced to prison as a result of a conviction for robbery. What steps is he taking to reassure people throughout the UK that that figure will be reduced in the next three years?

[Damian Green]

As I say, the average sentence is going up. One of the things that has been discussed a lot in Question Time today is how more effective rehabilitation is dealing with some of the most prolific offenders. As has been said, a lot of robberies are committed by reoffenders, so getting rehabilitation right earlier in the system, so fewer people commit such crimes, is the best defence we have against more of these prolific offenders being out on the streets committing offences.

[Diana Johnson (Kingston upon Hull North) (Lab)]

15. What his sentencing policy is for the most serious and violent offenders.

[The Minister for Policing and Criminal Justice (Damian Green)]

Serious and violent offenders deserve to go to prison. That is why we introduced mandatory life sentences for anyone convicted for a second time of a very serious sexual or violent offence, and tough extended determinate sentences for other dangerous offenders. The new regime restores clarity, coherence and common sense to sentencing.

[Diana Johnson]

In Hull last year, the clear-up rate for actual bodily harm was 41%, but for sexual offences it was only 28%, and we know that 7,000 fewer violent crimes were solved nationally. Mandatory life sentences are available only for second offences of a very serious sexual and violent nature, and many offenders are not convicted in the first place. With indeterminate sentences having been abolished for that particular group, is the Minister satisfied that the public are protected from these very dangerous offenders?

[Damian Green]

I hope the hon. Lady is reassured by, for instance, the new extended determinate sentence, under which the offender receives a custodial sentence plus a further long extended period of licence set by the court. Offenders receiving that sentence will serve at least two thirds of the custodial term, which is higher than has been the practice in recent years, showing that the system is not just more coherent, but, for these kinds of serious offences, tougher than before.

[Miss Anne McIntosh (Thirsk and Malton) (Con)]

Does my right hon. Friend agree that in north Yorkshire one of the difficulties with sentencing and bringing people to trial is the lack of a sexual assault and rape centre? What plans do the Government have to bring one forward?

[Damian Green]

My hon. Friend will have heard the victims Minister, my hon. Friend the Member for Maidstone and The Weald (Mrs Grant), set out the much good work she is promoting in terms of victims’ centres, and in particular rape victim centres. I assure my hon. Friend the Member for Thirsk and Malton (Miss McIntosh) that Ministers are taking that issue very seriously in all parts of the country, and particularly in north Yorkshire.

[Mr Henry Bellingham (North West Norfolk) (Con)]

16. What plans he has to ensure that high net worth defendants do not receive legal aid.

--- Later in debate ---

[Peter Aldous (Waveney) (Con)]

T3. Has the Secretary of State considered increasing the maximum sentences available to magistrates from six to 12 months, so that justice can be delivered more efficiently, fairly and quickly by magistrates who live in, and have a good understanding of, the communities they serve?

[The Minister for Policing and Criminal Justice (Damian Green)]

We are considering the case for increasing magistrates’ custodial sentencing powers in the way that my hon. Friend and, indeed, the Magistrates Association has suggested. I agree that magistrates have a very important role to play in our society and we should be thankful for the work they put in. We are exploring other ways to make use of the skills and expertise they bring.

[Sadiq Khan (Tooting) (Lab)]

I am sure the Justice Secretary agrees that we need not only to ensure that people do not become victims of crime in the first place, but that those responsible for crime are caught and dealt with appropriately by the criminal justice system. Burglary can have a devastating impact on the victims of crime and leave families traumatised. What are the Justice Secretary’s views on those accused of burglary being given a caution?

--- Later in debate ---

[David Mowat (Warrington South) (Con)]

T6. A continuing issue is convicted criminals who hide their wealth or in other ways refuse to abide by financial assessment orders. Is there more we can do in this area?

[Damian Green]

As my hon. Friend knows, the Government recently published details of measures to strengthen the Crown court means-testing scheme. They include steps to ensure that if a defendant fails to co-operate with the new legal aid agency, and if it believes they have sufficient means to pay, they may be pursued for all their outstanding legal aid costs following conviction. From July, the Government will also introduce motor vehicle order regulations so that the agency can seize a defendant’s vehicle if they refuse to pay their contribution towards their costs. Significant action is being taken in this area.

[Nick Smith (Blaenau Gwent) (Lab)]

T4. The failed contract with ALS/Capita is a year old. Does the Minister agree that her claims of massive savings cannot be demonstrated, given that the Ministry refuses to publish details of how much is spent off-contract to purchase interpreting services?

--- Later in debate ---

[Paul Goggins (Wythenshawe and Sale East) (Lab)]

T8. During the Report stage of the Crime and Courts Bill, there was unfortunately insufficient time for Ministers to speak to Government amendment 110, which provided for statutory guidance on the use of restorative justice. Will the Minister take this opportunity, given that there was extensive discussion in Committee and outside on this issue, to explain to the House how that amendment will extend and strengthen the use of restorative justice in the criminal justice system?

[Damian Green]

First, I thank the right hon. Gentleman for his kind remarks on Third Reading of the Crime and Courts Bill last night. The Bill gives judges explicit powers to defer sentencing to allow restorative justice to take place between a victim and an offender. The amendment provides that restorative justice practitioners must

“have regard to any guidance that is issued”

by the Secretary of State, with a view to “encouraging good practice” in the delivery of pre-sentence restorative justice. That is a significant step forward for restorative justice and I know that the right hon. Gentleman will welcome it.

[Andrew Selous (South West Bedfordshire) (Con)]

Will the Government aim to ensure that no prisoner leaves prison without being able to read and write as that would further reduce reoffending and give prisoners a chance of finding work when they leave?

Crime and Courts Bill [Lords]

Damian Green Excerpts

Monday 18th March 2013 Commons Chamber

Brought up, and read the First time.

[The Minister for Policing and Criminal Justice (Damian Green)]

I beg to move, That the clause be read a Second time.

[Mr Speaker]

With this it will be convenient to discuss the following:

Government new clause 16—Restraint orders and legal aid: supplementary.

Amendment 1, in clause 24, page 21, line 22, at end insert—

‘(6A) In fixing such an amount, and subsequent additions, account must be taken of the person’s relevant weekly income, excluding housing benefit and child related benefits, and allowance must be made for the protection of a reasonable financial subsistence level, in the manner used to determine the initial fine.’.

Amendment 103, page 21, line 25, leave out subsection (2).

Amendment 96, page 22, line 3, at end insert—

‘(5A) The Lord Chancellor must, by regulation, in statutory instrument of which a draft has been laid before and approved by resolution of each House of Parliament, provide the amount of any costs for services carried out for the purposes of collecting sums.’.

Amendment 97, in clause 25, page 23, line 11, leave out ‘person’ and insert ‘civil servant’.

Amendment 98, page 24, line 1, leave out paragraph (3).

New clause 12—Provision of intermediaries for very vulnerable witnesses—

‘(1) The Secretary of State must provide for intermediaries to be assigned to very vulnerable witnesses in all court cases.

(2) In the Youth Justice and Criminal Evidence Act 1999, after section 29 there is inserted:

“29A Intermediaries for very vulnerable witnesses

(1) A special measures direction must be made to provide for any examination of a very vulnerable witness (however and wherever conducted to be conducted through an interpreter or other person approved by the court for the purposes of this section (“an intermediary”).

(2) In addition to the functions set out in subsection 29(2), an intermediary must be assigned to very a vulnerable witness through their whole experience before, during and after court.

(3) For the purposes of this section, “very vulnerable witness” has the same meaning as defined in section [Court arrangements for very vulnerable witnesses] (5) of the Crime and Courts Act 2013.”.’.

New clause 14—Court arrangements for very vulnerable witnesses—

‘(1) The Secretary of State must make arrangements for specialist courts for very vulnerable witnesses.

(2) A specialist court for very vulnerable witnesses will consist of a partnership programme within the criminal court structure.

(3) In establishing the specialist court, the Secretary of State must involve the following partners—

(a) the judiciary;

(b) court officials;

(c) the Crown Prosecution Service;

(d) police forces;

(e) witness support services;

(f) victim support services; and

(g) any other specialist services that the Secretary of State deems appropriate.

(4) In cases where there is a very vulnerable witness—

(a) no judge can sit on the case unless he has taken part in appropriate training provided by the Judicial College;

(b) a single court usher, who has taken part in appropriate training provided by Her Majesty’s Courts and Tribunal Service, must be assigned to the witness throughout their time at court;

(c) the case will be assigned to a court with all necessary facilities to offer the full range of special measures set out in sections (23) to (30) of the Youth Justice and Criminal Evidence Act 1999;

(d) before allocating time for trials the court must take into account the impact of delays on very vulnerable witnesses; and

(e) the services of independent sexual violence advisors must be offered to very vulnerable witnesses in cases involving sexual offences.

(5) The Secretary of State must issue a code of practice giving guidance about court arrangements for very vulnerable witnesses, which must be published, and may be revised from time to time.

(6) Before issuing or revising a code under subsection (3), the Secretary of State must lay a copy before each House of Parliament for approval within a 40 day period.

(7) For the purposes of this section—

“very vulnerable witness” includes the victim in a case of child sexual abuse.

“independent sexual violence advisers” are victims-focused advocates who work with victims of recent and historic serious sexual crimes to enable them to access the services they need in the aftermath of the abuse they have experienced.’.

Government amendment 119.

[Damian Green]

Given the time pressure on our consideration of this large and disparate group, I propose to speak to the Government amendments—new clauses 15 and 16 and amendment 119—which relate to legal aid, and then, if possible, respond to the other amendments once I have had an opportunity to hear the arguments put forward by their sponsors. I hope that will provide a proper balance between Front-Bench and Back-Bench contributions to the debate.

Access to legal aid is a fundamental part of our legal system. However, difficult decisions relating to how the legal aid budget should be spent are made every day. We must remember that legal aid is not free and that we do not have unlimited resources. As such, we need to ensure that the limited funds are used effectively and directed to those who really need them.

At present, the Proceeds of Crime Act 2002 prevents restrained funds from being released to a defendant for legal expenses in relation to the offences to which the restraint order relates. Before the 2002 Act, there was a risk that individuals might recklessly dissipate assets through lavish spending on their defence in order to try to secure an acquittal at any cost. In 2002, the then Government decided that it was better to allow access to legal aid than to allow a defendant to draw down restrained funds to pay for their defence. However, that has led to a public perception that rich offenders with significant restrained assets are receiving vast sums of legal aid when they could afford to make a contribution to their defence. For example, over the past three years more than £14.3 million in legal aid was paid to just 49 high-profile individuals. Let us not forget that we are talking about individuals suspected of involvement in serious and organised crime, including drug smuggling and large-scale fraud, the victims of which are all too often numerous. [Interruption.]

[Mr Speaker]

Order. I apologise for interrupting the Minister. May I gently say to the House that a number of Back Benchers on both sides have new clauses or amendments to which they wish to speak, and there is such a hubbub that it is quite difficult to hear properly what the Minister is saying? Let us please have a bit of order, in everybody’s interests.

--- Later in debate ---

[Damian Green]

Since the introduction of the 2002 Act, a system of means-testing for legal aid has been introduced for all Crown court defendants. Those who can afford to pay some, or all, of their legal aid costs are required to do so. Although anyone charged with a criminal offence and facing imprisonment or loss of livelihood is entitled to legal aid, I think that the whole House would agree that if the defendant can pay some, or all, of their legal bill, they should do so. After all, as we ask people on modest incomes to pay something towards their defence costs, it is only fair and reasonable that we ask millionaires to do so. As such, new clause 15 amends section 41 of the 2002 Act to allow payment of a contribution towards, and up to the full amount of, their publicly funded legal aid costs.

The detailed mechanisms of how that will operate in practice will be set out in legal aid regulations made by the Lord Chancellor and, as provided for in new clause 16, regulations made by the Home Secretary, the latter being subject to the affirmative procedure. Both sets of regulations will be developed taking into account the potential impact on returning money to victims and assets that are used to incentivise further asset recovery work.

We can already freeze criminals’ assets to make it easier to recover ill-gotten gains and compensate victims, but that often leaves the state picking up their legal bill, even if the offender has plenty of money to pay that as well. I am sure that the whole House would agree that our aim should be to increase the overall amount of money taken from criminals. As I have said, the full details of the scheme will be set out in secondary legislation that will be subject to debate and approval in both Houses.

--- Later in debate ---

[John McDonnell]

This is the parliamentary equivalent of “Just a Minute”.

I will speak to the amendments in my name, which are amendments 103 and 96 to 98, which relate to clause 25. Clause 25 commences the process of privatising the work of the fines officers of the courts. They are not just bailiffs, but officers who exercise judicial powers. This will be the first time that the House has privatised any office holder who has judicial powers. What do I mean by judicial powers? These officers can make a deduction from a benefits order, make an attachment of earnings order, and order the variation of the length of time over which a fine can be paid.

Clause 25 will privatise the 2,000 jobs of the fines officers and hand the work over to private bailiffs. We have seen the report by Citizens Advice on the role of private bailiffs. They are misrepresenting their powers, using intimidating behaviour, charging fees in excess of what is allowed in law, failing to accept reasonable offers of payment and failing to recognise debtors in vulnerable situations, as required by the national standards for enforcement agents. We are handing over these powers to private bailiffs, who have failed significantly and have intimidated many of our constituents, and yet we know that the existing fines officers are performing well and meeting every target that is set by their management and the Government.

This is a privatisation too far. We have never privatised the roles of judicial officers. This matter needs the consideration of the House. I urge the Government to think again. This measure is just an enabling part of the legislation and I hope that the Government will step back before they implement it.

[Damian Green]

On the last point, I think it is fair to say that the hon. Member for Hayes and Harlington (John McDonnell) thinks that every privatisation is a privatisation too far. He is wrong. Choosing the sanction or collection method, which is what fines officers do, is not a judicial function. Those are essentially case management decisions and have been performed by administrative staff since 2006.

On amendment 1, we recognise that we must make allowances for the fact that some people find themselves in hardship and find it difficult to pay their debts, but that does not mean that the court should permit those convicted of an offence to ignore the sentences imposed on them. Fines are a criminal sentence, and taxpayers should not be subsidising those who avoid payment for whatever reason.

I have a great deal of sympathy with what was said about new clauses 12 and 14 by my hon. Friend the Member for Oxford West and Abingdon (Nicola Blackwood) and the hon. Member for Stockport (Ann Coffey), who has a distinguished record in this field. The Government and HM Courts Service already do a huge amount to protect victims and witnesses. There is always more we can do and we will take this issue away and consider it.

Crime Outcomes Recording Framework

Damian Green Excerpts

Tuesday 5th March 2013 Written Statements

[The Minister for Policing and Criminal Justice (Damian Green)]

As part of the Government’s commitment to increasing democratic accountability and reducing bureaucratic accountability, we have consulted on proposals to broaden the current “sanction detections” framework to better reflect all of the work that the police do to solve and resolve crime in national statistics.

A revised framework for recorded crime outcomes will support police officers to use their professional judgment to ensure a just and timely outcome which reflects the harm to the victim, the seriousness of the behaviour, the impact on the community, and which deters future offending. Furthermore, it will also give the public more detailed information about the work their police forces are doing and so further empower local communities to hold their chief officer and police and crime commissioner to account for tackling crime locally.

The consultation closed on 7 December 2012, and we received 65 responses. Responses were overwhelmingly supportive of the new proposals, and provided valuable insight into their potential impact.

In response to the consultation the Government will:

Replace the term “sanction detections” with “crime outcomes” (April 2013).

Introduce “community resolution” as a formal outcome category (April 2013).

Broaden the existing “no further action” category following further consultation (April 2014).

The Government will be publishing their detailed response to the consultation on 5 March 2013 and copies of this document will be placed in the House Library and on the Home Office website at: http://www.homeoffice.gov.uk/about-us/consultations/.