Better Bus Areas

Norman Baker Excerpts

Tuesday 26th February 2013 Written Statements

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Transport (Norman Baker)]

I am pleased today to launch the bidding process for designation of better bus areas, and to announce that Sheffield will act as a trailblazer for better bus areas as part of its city deal.

Last March in “Green Light for Better Buses” I announced my intention to reform the way in which we directly support the bus market through the bus service operators grant (BSOG). A key part of this is the development of better bus areas.

These are an innovative way of supporting the bus market for local transport authorities and bus operators working in partnership. Within better bus areas BSOG for services run commercially will gradually be devolved to local authorities and this grant will be supplemented by a top-up fund worth 20% of the commercial BSOG. This money will enable local transport authorities to tackle the local problems that hold back the bus market. I am today publishing guidance for local transport authorities wanting to become a better bus area. Applications need to be with the Department by 21 June and decisions will be made by 1 October 2013.

South Yorkshire passenger transport executive has been working with the Department to develop Sheffield as a trailblazer better bus area and I am pleased to announce that their application, which forms part of Sheffield’s city deal, has been successful. The better bus area will increase funding for buses in Sheffield by £530,000 this financial year and just under £1.6 million in future years.

Between September and November last year we consulted on the arrangements for implementing our proposed reforms to the BSOG system. We have now had a chance to review all the responses to the consultation, and are now considering the final arrangements for devolving part of the BSOG budget to local authorities outside BBAs as well as some changes to the categories of bus service which qualify to receive BSOG. I expect to make a detailed announcement on these arrangements around Easter, with a view to implementing them in October this year.

Bus and Coach Passenger Rights

Norman Baker Excerpts

Thursday 7th February 2013 Written Statements

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Transport (Norman Baker)]

I have today laid before Parliament a statutory instrument applying exemptions to EU regulation 181/2011 on the rights of passengers in bus and coach travel. The exemptions are as follows:

with the exception of certain mandatory provisions in the EU regulation, member states may on a transparent and non-discriminatory basis, exempt domestic regular services from the application of the regulation for four years from 1 March 2013, which may be renewed once (article 2(4));

for a maximum period of four years from 1 March 2013, member states may, on a transparent and non-discriminatory basis, exempt from the application of the regulation particular regular services because a significant part of such regular services, including at least one scheduled stop, is operated outside of the EU. Such exemptions may be renewed once (article 2(5));

a member state may for a maximum of five years from 1 March 2013 grant an exemption in respect of drivers from the requirement for disability awareness training for personnel of carriers and terminal managing bodies (article 16(2)).

The statutory instrument will apply in Great Britain. In line with Government policy on European regulations, these exemptions will be applied in full. However, in response to concerns from the public about disability awareness training for bus and coach drivers, I will review the use of this exemption after one year to see whether drivers are receiving adequate training under the voluntary measure being undertaken by the bus and coach industry. I will be introducing further legislation to designate enforcement bodies later in the year.

Member states can also permanently exempt domestic regular services from the majority of chapter III on the “Rights of disabled persons and persons with restricted mobility” where their national rules provide the same or better level of protection. As I explained when we consulted on transposing this regulation, it cannot always be guaranteed that the level of protection will be the same as under the EU regulation, and therefore I do not believe we can make use of this exemption.

Cycling Infrastructure Funding

Norman Baker Excerpts

Wednesday 30th January 2013 Written Statements

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Transport (Norman Baker)]

I am pleased to announce today details of a major investment of over £62 million in cycling in England.

This funding is part of the overall £107 million the Government announced during 2012 for investment over the following three years, and is in addition to the £600 million for the local sustainable transport fund.

I have decided that the £42 million cycling investment funding announced in the Chancellor’s autumn statement will comprise two elements—an urban element and an element for rural areas that are covered by national parks.

For the urban element there will be an opportunity for cities to bid for two or three cycle city ambition grants. These grants would be for infrastructure improvements to give people the confidence to take up cycling.

The areas eligible to apply for those grants would be the cities that have taken part in wave 1 and wave 2 of the city deals process. The list of cities is:

High Speed 2 (Birmingham)

Norman Baker Excerpts

Friday 25th January 2013 Commons Chamber

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Transport (Norman Baker)]

I congratulate the right hon. Member for Birmingham, Hodge Hill (Mr Byrne) on securing this debate on the location of HS2’s rolling stock maintenance depot. He has talked passionately about how important the area is for jobs and regeneration—quite rightly—and I hope he will agree that we all have those interests at heart.

Before I go into the specific issues of the proposed use of the site for HS2 and what is being done to help business currently located there, I would first like to say just how important the Government believes HS2 is for the country. We believe it is a crucial part of our plans to develop the right infrastructure for future economic growth, and I personally welcome the cross-party support that exists in this House for high-speed rail, and I welcome the right hon. Gentleman’s comments in support of it. Shortly, my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Transport will announce details of the route for phase 2 of HS2—the legs to Leeds and Manchester. Our plans put Birmingham and the west midlands at the very heart of Britain’s new high-speed rail network, and in my view they will change the geography of the country in Birmingham’s favour. The right hon. Gentleman will agree that this is a fantastic opportunity for everyone in the area.

The new terminus station at Curzon street, the interchange station near Birmingham airport and the west coast main line will put Birmingham and Solihull at the centre of the country’s transport infrastructure, creating huge opportunities for growth in the area. The Curzon street station will be a catalyst for the development of the Eastside area of the city, and offer real regeneration potential for the Digbeth area. The interchange station will act as the nexus for the economic development plans of local authorities and the area’s local enterprise partnership. More widely, HS2 will bring construction jobs, operational jobs when the line is open, and support wider jobs and wealth creation, improving the prospects for businesses and people right across the west midlands.

HS2 could help to support growth in employment with more than 8,000 jobs in the regeneration and development areas around Birmingham stations. Centro estimates that figure to be closer to 10,000 jobs with as many as 22,000 created in the wider region once phase 2 is completed, with economic output increasing by £1.5 billion.

As the right hon. Gentleman knows, HS2 Ltd has identified Washwood Heath as a key site for the development of the high-speed rail network. It is situated approximately two miles from Birmingham Curzon Street. The intention is that once phase 1 of HS2 is completed, Washwood Heath will accommodate the rolling stock maintenance depot to serve the London to west midlands route. That role will be expanded when phase 2 opens to provide the maintenance services for the extended network. To that extent we will need to consider the land required at Washwood Heath for both phase 1 and 2 requirements to ensure that the construction of the railway and depot can be facilitated.

The Washwood Heath rolling stock maintenance depot will create 400 jobs during construction and support a further 300 operational jobs when phase 1 opens, with a potential 400 additional skilled jobs when phase 2 is completed. There is also the potential to locate the HS2 control centre at Washwood Heath, generating a further 100 jobs.

I think I should say something about how Washwood Heath was chosen and why we are where we are now. I know there has been a desire from some for the selection of the Washwood Heath site to be looked at again, so let me dwell on that for a second. HS2 Ltd undertook an assessment to identify a credible location for a rolling stock maintenance depot that could be progressed as part of an overall HS2 London to west midlands phase 1 proposition. The fleet using the depot, and ultimately the depot’s functional requirements, informed much of the site selection process. Additionally, the key factors influencing the site selection process included location, size, access to the HS2 network and sustainability.

The initial assessment concluded that a west midlands location was more appropriate than a site in the London area. From that assessment, a longlist of six potential sites in the west midlands area was identified and evaluated. That resulted in the identification of a shortlist of the Washwood Heath, Middleton and Coleshill sites. Those locations underwent further evaluation to enable a preferred option—Washwood Heath—to be identified as the most suitable rolling stock depot location. The key reasons for Washwood Heath’s selection as a preferred option include the fact that it is close to the Curzon Street terminus station, that it is situated off the main HS2 line of route, and that the site is centrally placed within the future national high speed network. That process is documented in HS2 Ltd’s “Rolling Stock Maintenance Depot Selection”, which was prepared in September 2010. In developing a longlist of options, HS2 Ltd worked closely with Birmingham city council officers, who agreed with the site selection process.

[Mr Byrne]

The Minister is characteristically generous in giving way, but it is simply inconceivable that he could say that Birmingham city council officers agree with the site selection. I have worked with so many of them for so long, and they are very clear about the economic catastrophe that the chosen site would represent. I hope that, when we conclude the debate over the next month or two, there is a note of consensus, but I must tell the Minister that, if the legislation is not on the books by 2015 and Labour forms the next Government, we will look at the decision again.

[Norman Baker]

On Birmingham city council officers, the right hon. Gentleman will know from his time in ministerial office that Ministers discuss matters in some detail with officials so that they are properly prepared for Adjournment debates. I raised that specific point and was given an assurance that Birmingham city council officers had indeed responded in that way. That is why I included it in my comments. He questions the robustness of the process, but I am satisfied that there has been a thorough examination.

Would Birmingham benefit more from other use of the land? The right hon. Gentleman made the case that it would, and HS2 Ltd recognises his concerns and those of the landowners at Washwood Heath which have emerged since the selection process I have described. HS2 Ltd is currently looking in detail at their concerns and the alternative sites they have proposed for the rolling stock maintenance depot, and will report to the Department for Transport in February, when Ministers will consider them. I hope that gives him comfort that the matter is being considered at the highest level by Ministers.

Given where we are in the process and the need to progress the scheme, I expect the Secretary of State to wait to receive the outcomes of HS2 Ltd’s examination to understand the most appropriate mechanism formally to address the concerns of the landowners and Birmingham city council. However, I should like to make two further points. First, the site in question has remained largely as it is for many years, including through the last economic boom, and it is not immediately clear—or at least the Government are not persuaded—how realistic the development proposals are. Secondly, the proposals for the rolling stock maintenance depot would bring employment directly associated with building and operating the railway, create opportunities for supporting employment uses, and make valuable use of the site, which, I might add, has an historic association with the railway.

The right hon. Gentleman spoke of the impacts on businesses based on the Washwood Heath site. UKMail has a particularly large presence there, and I assure him of the Government’s commitment to work with the company to ensure that the business can either continue to operate there or move to another location. HS2 Ltd has had regular and constructive conversations with it and I expect them to continue.

Some people have said that HS2 Ltd is proposing to safeguard too much land. HS2 Ltd needs to safeguard a larger area of land initially to ensure that the land is kept available for the depot and that HS2 Ltd can be notified of any future proposals that might compromise our ability to build and operate the facility. That does not mean that all the land will be taken by HS2, but we need to ensure that conflicts do not arise.

Draft safeguarding consultation began in October 2012 and is due to close on 31 January. As the engineering design for the depot and railway develops, HS2 Ltd will continue to meet Birmingham city council officers to share emerging designs and to discuss the potential of developing a planning framework for the area, enabling additional employment uses to exist alongside the depot, and providing certainty for landowners and developers on the extent of future land availability and use.

I am aware that Birmingham city council recently consulted on options for the future growth of the city, and in particular identified the need to expand into the green belt, to which the right hon. Gentleman referred, to accommodate future employment growth. There was a recognised need to do that, even without the rolling stock maintenance depot located at Washwood Heath, so he has made his point about how far he thinks that ingression needs to go.

In addition to supporting the preparation of a planning framework, HS2 Ltd will continue to work with the city council to ensure that the proposed rolling stock maintenance depot maximises the opportunities created by locating the hub of the national high-speed network at Washwood Heath, both in terms of employment opportunities created by the construction and operation of the railway, and in attracting investment and new jobs to this area of Birmingham.

The Government and HS2 Ltd are working hard to implement a scheme that will not only bring the widest possible benefits to the country, but help all those who would be impacted. HS2 Ltd is already engaged with UKMail and other interested parties concerning the future of the Washwood Heath site. It is HS2 Ltd’s intention to work with Birmingham city council and key landowners to share emerging design solutions, and to prepare a planning framework for the site, enabling the rolling stock maintenance depot to co-exist with additional employment uses. We should not forget the direct job creation this opportunity will bring: approximately 300 operational jobs with phase 1 and approximately 700 with phase 2. The site offers opportunities for more jobs, local training opportunities and the attraction of wider rail industries, as the site becomes a hub of high-speed rail activities in the region, and therefore one of national importance. The Government and HS2 Ltd will continue to support these aspirations for HS2 and continue to do what we can to support the economy of Birmingham and the west midlands.

The right hon. Member for Holborn and St Pancras (Frank Dobson) raised an issue about consultation—a meeting from last night of which I obviously have no knowledge. All I would say is that it is the Government’s intention to ensure that there is proper compensation, and that has not changed since the statement made by the previous Secretary of State for Transport, the right hon. Member for Runnymede and Weybridge (Mr Hammond).

[Frank Dobson]

Will the Minister try to ensure that officials from HS2 Ltd and the Department for Transport are made aware of ministerial desires and intentions, because they were denying them outright last night?

[Norman Baker]

As I say, I was not at the meeting and I would be surprised if that was indeed the case. I have restated the position to the House that we believe in proper compensation for people affected by HS2.

[Mr Byrne]

The Minister is generous in giving way a second time. The argument that has been rehearsed this afternoon is an argument that has been rehearsed by HS2 in the past year and a half, and it has been systematically taken apart. There will be no comfort in the notion of 300 or 400 jobs being created some time in the 2020s when 7,500 jobs could be created in the next few years. The idea that history is any guide to what could be done now is, I am afraid, almost completely irrelevant. A site of this size and scale has not been put together for more than a century. This is a completely new opportunity. Borne of the worry about grip on detail, I hope the Minister can give a commitment that either he or the Secretary of State will come to Birmingham and discuss with the leader of the city council, me and Birmingham city council officers the whys and wherefores and the logic of the case we are making this afternoon, before they come to a final conclusion in February?

[Norman Baker]

I will certainly pass on the right hon. Gentleman’s request to the Secretary of State and make him aware of the exchange we have had this afternoon.

In conclusion, the Secretary of State wants to reach the best conclusion for the country and the transport system, and for those who will benefit from HS2 in terms of jobs and employment, particularly in Birmingham and the west midlands, and in Manchester and Leeds. He will make a statement in due course about further plans for HS2, and the right hon. Gentleman will have the opportunity to raise the matter directly with him at that point.

This has been a useful exchange. I am grateful to the right hon. Gentleman for the way he has put his case, with the usual aplomb and forcefulness that I expect from him. His points have been noted, and I am also grateful to the right hon. Member for Holborn and St Pancras for his contribution.

Question put and agreed to.

Blue Badge Scheme

Norman Baker Excerpts

Friday 25th January 2013 Written Statements

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Transport (Norman Baker)]

I am today publishing my Department’s consultation report on personal independence payment and eligibility for a blue badge. I have decided that the blue badge scheme in future will be as similar to the current scheme as possible.

The Government has recently announced important reforms to the welfare system. Personal independence payment (PIP) will begin to be introduced for people who are aged 16 to 64 from 8 April 2013. From October 2013 onwards, PIP will begin to replace disability living allowance (DLA) for existing DLA recipients aged between 16 and 64.

As around a third of all blue badges are currently issued to people who receive the higher rate of the mobility component of disability living allowance, my Department consulted between July and October 2012 on the options, in England, for dealing with the impact of the welfare changes.

The Government remains committed to ensuring that the blue badge scheme continues to be focused on those people who will benefit most from the parking concessions that it offers, and that it is sustainable in the future.

Therefore, having carefully considered the responses to the consultation, I have decided that, when DLA is replaced by PIP, there should still be a legislative link that means those people who score eight points or more in the “moving around” activity of PIP will be automatically eligible for a blue badge. This activity assesses a person’s physical ability to get around and a score of eight points or more will be awarded to people who are either unable to walk or who cannot walk further than approximately 50 metres. This means that future eligibility for a blue badge will be as similar to the current eligibility criteria for the scheme as possible.

The relevant legislation will be changed in the near future. Any consequential changes to the blue badge scheme will be phased in, in line with the welfare changes. They will affect existing badge holders when a current badge expires and they apply for a new one. If an individual does not automatically qualify for a badge by virtue of a PIP award, they will be able to apply directly to their local authority to see whether they qualify under any of the other criteria.

These changes will not affect people under the age of 16 or over the age of 64.

A copy of the consultation response document has been placed in the Libraries of both Houses, and will also be available on the GOV.UK website.

Local Major Transport Schemes

Norman Baker Excerpts

Wednesday 23rd January 2013 Written Statements

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Transport (Norman Baker)]

In September 2012, following a period of consultation, the Department for Transport set out firm proposals for the devolution of funding for local major transport schemes from 2015.

Since then we have, as promised, provided detailed guidance for local transport bodies (LTBs) on the setting up of local assurance frameworks, including a set of minimum requirements to be met before funding is devolved.

We also invited local stakeholders to agree locally the preferred geographical basis for LTBs so that we could then provide each with an indicative population-based funding level, which would inform the development of their scheme programmes.

I am today publishing those indicative funding figures and they are listed in a document being provided to the Libraries of both Houses, as well as being published on the Department for Transport’s website.

The actual allocations will be determined following further spending rounds within Government. Accordingly, I am advising all LTBs to make contingency provision in their programmes for actual budget levels to be one third higher or lower than the indicative figures being published today.

LTB boundaries were mostly agreed by consensus between the local partners. However, there were three areas where local partners could not reach such an agreement. For those areas we have calculated the indicative figures on the basis of an appropriate share of the overlapping areas. The basis for this is set out in the additional document.

In all areas we will need to be responsive to evolving agendas, particularly in relation to the Government’s response to the Heseltine review, the emergence of city deals and the move in some areas towards combined authorities. These developments may, in time, inform the refinement of LTB geographies. However the planning for new schemes and programmes cannot be delayed if we are to maintain the momentum of new infrastructure that is so vital to the economy.

Finally, I am pleased to announce that, in recognition of the key role we envisage for local enterprise partnerships in transport, the Department for Transport will be providing them with funding totalling £5 million in this financial year. This is in addition to the funds for capacity building in local enterprise partnerships already announced in the Chancellor’s 2012 autumn statement. Local enterprise partnerships will have discretion on the use of this funding but we hope that it will improve their capacity to play a leading role in transport, including participation in LTBs.

Permit Schemes

Norman Baker Excerpts

Wednesday 23rd January 2013 Written Statements

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Transport (Norman Baker)]

I am today announcing that, in line with the principles of localism, the role of the Secretary of State in approving local authority permit schemes for works in the street will be removed. This announcement follows a consultation on the proposals, which closed last spring.

Permit schemes provide highway authorities with the means to better manage activities on their road network, to minimise inconvenience and disruption to road users. Highway authorities do not have to introduce permit schemes. Where schemes are implemented, the authority is able to grant permits to works promoters to undertake works on the highway. This provides greater control over works in their area, and enables them to promote better working practices, for example, working outside peak hours where appropriate. A permit scheme also enables improved co-ordination of works.

Once implemented the change to the approval process will reduce bureaucracy and will offer local authorities the ability to develop, introduce and operate schemes in their area, to best suit local needs. These changes are in line with both the Government’s commitment to ensure regulatory proposals are proportionate and our desire to see congestion caused by roadworks reduced by effective management, and for works promoters to be held accountable for that congestion.

Authorities with schemes in operation report that they reduce the time taken to complete necessary street works. To optimise the benefits and minimise the administrative burden of future permit schemes, I have recently published guidance to focus new schemes on busy and traffic sensitive streets. This will ensure a proportionate approach and maximise benefits to all road users. To give time for local authorities to adjust to this new approach, I will retain the Secretary of State’s approval of schemes until at least 2015. As well as removing the Secretary of State’s approval, I intend to change the permit scheme regulations to make the consequential changes and embed these developments into both regulations and guidance.

The full consultation response can be found at:

www.gov.uk/government/organisations/department-for-transport. I am placing a copy in the House Libraries.

To take forward these proposals, I plan to introduce appropriate changes to the Traffic Management Act when a suitable legislative opportunity arises, and also to make the resultant changes to the permit scheme regulations.

Oral Answers to Questions

Norman Baker Excerpts

Thursday 17th January 2013 Commons Chamber

[Michael Fabricant (Lichfield) (Con)]

10. What assessment he has made of the level of service provided by London Midland trains in the last six months; and if he will make a statement.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Transport (Norman Baker)]

The Department is continually assessing London Midland’s performance, and holds monthly review meetings with its senior management. As the Secretary of State announced on 20 December 2012, London Midland’s performance between September and December breached its contractual benchmark. The Department has therefore negotiated measures with London Midland to ensure that a reliable passenger service is restored, as well as a £7 million package of benefits for passengers.

[Michael Fabricant]

If there have been improvements, most of my constituents have not really noticed them. They have been stranded at Four Oaks—and believe me, Mr. Speaker, you would not want to be stranded at Four Oaks—hanging around for an hour and a half waiting for another London Midland train to take them back to Lichfield. How bad does it actually have to get before the Minister decides to take away the service and readvertise the contract?

[Norman Baker]

I shall try not to be stuck at Four Oaks, where there is evidently a problem that limits the ability to run through trains. However, we are continuing to monitor London Midland’s performance, and if it breaches further benchmarks, we will take further action. I can say now that it is expected to make losses for the remainder of its franchise period. In my view, given that it created this mess, it is up to London Midland to sort it out on behalf of the taxpayer.

[Mark Lazarowicz (Edinburgh North and Leith) (Lab/Co-op)]

rose—

[Mark Lazarowicz]

If passengers are delayed on London Midland, and indeed on other lines—[Laughter]—they are entitled to compensation. However, when London Midland provides such compensation, it takes the form of paper vouchers, which, as a constituent of mine has pointed out, cannot be exchanged online. That is inconvenient, and it means that they cannot obtain the full benefit of lower fares. Will the Minister look into that when the Government review the fares system?

[Norman Baker]

I am happy to say that that point has been raised by a number of Members, and that we are looking into it. People should not be discriminated against on the basis of the method that they use to buy their tickets.

[Peter Aldous (Waveney) (Con)]

11. What assessment his Department has made of the role of the private sector in the UK's railways.

--- Later in debate ---

[Tom Blenkinsop (Middlesbrough South and East Cleveland) (Lab)]

12. What assessment he has made of bus fare rises in non-metropolitan areas; and if he will make a statement.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Transport (Norman Baker)]

The Government recognises that the price of public transport is an issue for many people, including those in non-metropolitan areas, and we are putting measures in place to keep down the cost of using the bus, including retaining the bus service operators grant and the concessionary travel entitlement, and encouraging more reasonably priced multi-operator tickets.

[Tom Blenkinsop]

Following cuts imposed by this Government, Mayor Mallon in Middlesbrough is proposing to axe the teen mover scheme that helps young people afford public transport, and Redcar and Cleveland borough council has already had to scale back its similar scheme. As a result, coupled with bus fare increases, young people risk being plunged into transport poverty. Will the Minister hold discussions with his colleagues at the Departments for Education and for Communities and Local Government to ensure that young people in Middlesbrough and east Cleveland can afford to travel by public transport?

[Norman Baker]

The hon. Gentleman rightly draws attention to the issue of young people and buses, and I have given considerable attention to it. I have had discussions with the industry, and there is a new website giving young people more information about bus fares and the best offers in their area. We are discussing what further steps we might take to help young people, and, indeed, I have met colleagues at the Department for Education to discuss this very issue.

[Miss Anne McIntosh (Thirsk and Malton) (Con)]

Does my hon. Friend agree that community transport and concessionary fares are particularly important in rural areas? Will he therefore consider a further roll-out of the wheels to work scheme in rural areas such as Thirsk, Malton and Filey?

[Norman Baker]

I thank my hon. Friend for her question, and I agree with her point. We have given two tranches of £10 million to aid community transport across England. We have also funded wheels to work schemes under the local sustainable transport fund, and will continue to do so.

[Yvonne Fovargue (Makerfield) (Lab)]

The Government’s own figures show bus fares rising by double the rate of inflation, and many passengers face even higher increases; the Arriva Midlands annual saver ticket has increased by 20% this year. When will the Minister accept that his Government’s decision to cut local transport funding by 28% and to cut direct support for bus services by a fifth has increased the financial pressure on households who are already struggling to make ends meet?

[Norman Baker]

I welcome the hon. Lady to the Front Bench. She may not be aware that this is not a new phenomenon. In 2009, the retail prices index fell by 0.4% and bus fares increased by 8.6%—far more than they have risen this year. Steps are being taken to cut bus fares, and the hon. Lady may be interested to know that fares are being cut by First Bus in both Sheffield and Manchester.

[Mr Gareth Thomas (Harrow West) (Lab/Co-op)]

T1. If he will make a statement on his departmental responsibilities.

--- Later in debate ---

[Chris Heaton-Harris (Daventry) (Con)]

T6. My question is further to that asked by my hon. Friend the Member for Lichfield (Michael Fabricant) about services on London Midland trains. Staff shortages and other issues have led to an unbelievably poor service, with London Midland’s chief executive saying earlier this week that he was “embarrassed” by the service being offered. What will the Government do to ensure that London Midland improves the service it offers my constituents?

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Transport (Norman Baker)]

As I mentioned earlier, there have been discussions between the Department and London Midland, and they are ongoing. London Midland has taken steps to improve its rostering and to recruit more drivers to try to ensure that the very poor service that my hon. Friend’s constituents have had is not repeated this year. We continue to monitor the situation, and we will take further action if necessary.

[Kelvin Hopkins (Luton North) (Lab)]

If Britain is to see a substantial modal shift of freight from road to rail, it is vital to construct dedicated rail freight capacity capable of carrying full-sized lorry trailers on trains. Will the Government give serious consideration to practical schemes to provide such capacity?

--- Later in debate ---

[Tim Farron (Westmorland and Lonsdale) (LD)]

Electrification of the Lakes line from Oxenholme to Windermere would probably be the least expensive and most straightforward electrification project in the network. It would also provide a massive boost for the £3 billion tourism economy in Cumbria. Will the Minister meet me, rail operators and rail users to take forward this project?

[Norman Baker]

I am very happy for me or my colleague the Minister of State to meet my hon. Friend about this matter. We have a major programme of electrification, as he knows. It will not be finished when we have completed all these schemes, so we are looking forward to further schemes post the present programme.

Local Bus Market

Norman Baker Excerpts

Thursday 10th January 2013 Westminster Hall

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Transport (Norman Baker)]

I thank all those who have taken part in this afternoon’s debate. I particularly thank the Committee and its Chairman for its report on competition in local bus markets. It is good to have time to debate the issue once again. The report was a welcome addition to the evidence base on this subject. It reminded us once again that, although competition is important, the ultimate prize is to improve bus services for the travelling public. That must be our primary aim. That was a key test for the Government when considering the Competition Commission’s recommendations—namely, would they result in more passengers travelling on the bus?

There is a point of uncommon purpose and agreement with my colleague the hon. Member for Nottingham South (Lilian Greenwood): Greener Journeys has made a welcome contribution to the debate on buses. We know from the work by Greener Journeys and others that bus services make a significant contribution to the economy. Sustainable growth relies in part on a good quality, affordable bus network to get people to jobs, training and education. I think that I have said so before, but if I have not, I can confirm that I am pursuing that matter and that welcome report with colleagues in different Departments across Government. Clearly, it is not simply a transport matter, but an employment and environment matter. Other benefits might flow from the recommendations being taken forward.

Although the overall picture is mixed, I am positive that we are headed in the right direction. There are many areas of the country where bus services flourish and where significant progress is being made in ticketing, infrastructure and integration. I have seen first hand in places such as Sheffield and Oxford the power of partnership working to make a real difference to bus services in city centres and beyond. There is significant investment going into new vehicles, new technology and new services by the better bus companies, both big and small. There is good innovation out there. I pay tribute to Trent Barton. It is always unfair to pick one company out, but I have been very impressed by the way that Trent Barton markets individual services, which is a testament to how a good bus network can be built through good management. We see a key example there.

I have been keen to build on investment by encouraging the bus industry to think about what more it can do to get people on to buses. That is why I am pleased that bus companies across the country have come together with two exciting offers in response to my suggestions. The first, BUSFORUS, is a website to collate information on bus services and tickets in one place for young people. The Passenger Focus survey, to which the Chairman of the Select Committee referred, showed a high level of satisfaction with bus use. Of course, it masked a slightly less high level of satisfaction among young people. That is helpful in persuading bus companies that they should perhaps give more consideration to young people in the way that they conduct their business. They are now doing so, and they have made a good start with the website.

[Graham Stringer]

The Minister makes a fair point about the survey masking dissatisfaction among young people. An even bigger point, because the survey is of bus users, is that it completely masks the dissatisfaction of the people who have abandoned bus services because of poor quality or high fares. The figures of 88% and 92% satisfaction are misleading, because they exclude the people who no longer travel by bus.

[Norman Baker]

It is true that those no longer travelling would by definition be excluded, because they would not have been on the bus to be subject to questions. I suppose the same applies to rail services. However, if bus services were being abandoned because of poor quality, I would expect that to be highlighted by the people still on the bus, but who have not yet abandoned it, so I do not think that the hon. Gentleman’s point is necessarily true, if I may say so. It might be that bus passengers are no longer on the bus because they have decided to travel by a different mode—car or train—or because the bus is no longer there in the circumstances that suit their individual needs.

The second deal was Bus for Jobs, which helps jobseekers get back to work by offering free travel for the whole of this month of January. Those are exactly the sort of leadership examples that should be demonstrated by bus companies. I will continue to work with the companies, and cajole them if necessary, to ensure that they continue to put passengers’ long-term interests directly at the heart of their businesses. Of course it is in their commercial interest to do so, and therefore they ought to be doing that for themselves, as many of them are.

[Lilian Greenwood]

I have listened with great interest to what the Minister said about BUSFORUS and Bus for Jobs. Can he set out his assessment of how well those initiatives by the bus industry are meeting the needs of young and unemployed people, in particular given that Bus for Jobs only lasts for a single month?

[Norman Baker]

The Bus for Jobs initiative is being assessed by the bus companies, and I spoke about it to a leading member of the bus industry yesterday. I will be keeping in touch with the industry, to see what the initial response is and whether there is a case for extending the initiative. That would be a matter for the bus companies, but we want to see the response first—us from the Government point of view and them from a commercial point of view. If the initiative is successful in persuading people who have not considered the bus before to take the bus and then to stay with the bus, it might be a sensible commercial proposition for the bus companies.

However, I have made no secret of my belief that the bus companies need to do more to help young people, and that has formed a key part of my speech on major set-piece occasions when I have addressed the bus industry. The industry has responded sensibly and well to that challenge, and the companies know that I will continue to engage with them formally and informally. The subject is always on the agenda of the Bus Partnership Forum, which I hold with the industry six-monthly and in which young people also participate.

Overall, commercial services, which represent about 80% of bus mileage, are holding up quite well, which is good news that we should all welcome. I understand the challenges of being in opposition, but I encourage Opposition Members not to talk down the bus industry, which is easy to do—I have been in opposition myself. They should recognise what is going well, as well as not so well. Commercial services are holding up, and we should take some comfort from that.

Although there is good news on that front, I recognise—I am the first to do so—that in some areas of the country the garden is not quite so rosy. Recent statistics show that the supported service network—only 20% of overall bus mileage, but important for many people—is not as healthy as the commercial sector. The picture is not uniform, as it inevitably will not be in an era of localism, such as the one we are moving into, because the decisions are made locally by elected councillors. Some councils, such as East Riding, have prioritised bus services in setting their budgets, while others, such as Surrey, have reduced their spending but have done so creatively and carefully so as not to translate cuts into significant service reductions.

Other councils, I am sorry to say, have made what appear to be arbitrary and swingeing cuts that fail to consider properly the needs of their local residents—I refer to North Yorkshire and Cambridgeshire—which can lead to people in isolated communities, particularly in rural locations, having restricted access to education, training, work, health care and other important services. We have heard about how those who use the bus tend to be at either end of the age spectrum, so young people and elderly people are especially affected if such cuts are made, because they rely more on public transport to get around.

[Julie Hilling]

While the Minister is talking about local authorities continuing to support bus services, has he investigated whether those that do not have suffered more extreme cuts from the coalition Government than others? A lot of Labour authorities, for instance, have had much higher cuts to their spending than Tory councils. I recognise that that might not be the case in the two examples he gave, but I was wondering what the correlation is with local authorities that can no longer support such services.

[Norman Baker]

The allocation of money to local councils and their predominant concerns are matters not for the Department for Transport, but for the Department for Communities and Local Government, which sets the allocation for local council funds. We do not control that, but allocate our own funds, which we are increasing through the green bus fund and the better bus areas and community transport. That is what our Department has been doing, but I am unable to answer the hon. Lady directly, because that is not my Department’s responsibility. I do not believe, however, that there is a direct correlation between the reductions in local funding from the DCLG and the cuts in bus funding.

Indeed, what is reflected—quite properly—is the exercise of local discretion. Some councils have decided to protect bus services and to make them a high priority, while others have not sought to do so, which is entirely up to them, because they consist of elected local people. I certainly encourage individual constituents in those areas where bus cuts have been significant to ask their local councils and councillors why they have decided to prioritise bus cuts, as opposed to anything else, while perhaps the councils next door have not done so. To be fair, I referred to non-Labour councils, North Yorkshire and Cambridgeshire, but I can also pick out Darlington, Stoke and such councils, which have reduced their budgets. Things are mixed throughout the country.

Overall, however, bus mileage remains broadly flat, with commercial services in many cases picking up the slack as bus companies continue to look for opportunities to grow their local markets.

[Lilian Greenwood]

May I take the Minister back to his response to my hon. Friend the Member for Bolton West? The Government are trying to have it both ways, taking credit for progress in the bus industry while blaming local authorities for cuts to services. He must take responsibility for inflicting front-loaded cuts, disproportionately hitting less affluent authorities and forcing councillors to make impossible decisions. The Government are using localism as a way to hide behind the effect of their own decisions.

[Norman Baker]

That is not fair, and I have already listed some of the extra money that the Department for Transport has made available to help buses. In a moment, I will go on to what we are doing. Moreover, many councils are not making cuts, which demonstrates that there is flexibility. Some have chosen not to make cuts, although there have been reductions across the patch, not only in local councils but in Departments. I do not wish to rehearse the Budget position, but there was a general recognition that reductions in Government expenditure were necessary. Indeed, the hon. Lady’s party was also committed to a large swathe of cuts had it been returned to power in 2010. In the Department for Transport, we are doing what we can to protect bus services, and I hope that local councils have the same objective—some appear to be discharging it well, others less so.

We are doing our bit to help, and we remain committed to supporting local bus markets through direct operator subsidy, through DCLG funding of local government and through our targeted investment packages. That includes £70 million on better bus areas, which was a bolt out of the blue and a windfall that the bus industry was not expecting, with more to come for those places that successfully apply for full devolution of bus subsidy. That also includes around £200 million in capital funding for major projects in Manchester, Rochdale, Bristol and elsewhere, and many of the 96 projects made possible by the £600 million local sustainable transport fund, which is a brand-new Government initiative and provides a major increase in spending on sustainable transport compared with that of the previous Administration.

Many of the 96 projects include improvements related to bus services. In addition, I recently announced a further £20 million for a new, fourth round of the green bus fund, on top of the three previous rounds worth £75 million. Many of those buses will be built in Britain, helping British manufacturing and jobs as well reducing our carbon impact from buses. Such funding, therefore, is not insubstantial and not a bad deal for the bus industry. It comes in spite of the tough financial climate and the need to reduce the structural deficit.

As I have made clear before, however, with such significant amounts of public expenditure invested in the bus market, it was only right for us to consider whether it has been delivering the best service for bus passengers and best value for the taxpayer. That is why we are engaged in a series of reforms to facilitate competition and to increase local accountability for spending on bus services. We are reforming how bus services are subsidised, providing guidance on ticketing and tendering for contracts, and making regulatory changes to encourage more on-the-road competition where the market supports it.

On bus subsidy and the reform of BSOG, I am considering the response to last year’s consultation and will have final proposals before Easter. That will include the treatment of areas where quality contract schemes are planned, which is clearly and understandably of interest to the Committee. Guidance for local authorities that wish to apply for better bus area status will be out later this month.

[Mrs Ellman]

I am trying to interpret the Minister’s welcome comments. Is he saying that he will be able to give a clear answer about whether local authorities could secure public support for embarking on statutory partnerships?

[Norman Baker]

That issue was raised at the Select Committee, to which I gave evidence, and it has been raised again today. Local councils want to understand the relationship between better bus areas and quality contracts; that is fully understood. I will not give a definitive answer today. The matter has been subject to consultation, as the hon. Lady knows. The responses to the consultation are being carefully considered, and I will discuss those matters with my ministerial colleagues in the Department for Transport, but I accept the need for clarity, and I intend to provide that so that everyone knows where they stand.

I am pleased to note that, by and large, the Committee’s key findings and recommendations complement and support the coalition Government’s policies that were set out last year in “Green Light for Better Buses”. I have a lot of time for the Chair of the Committee, but I thought she was uncharacteristically unfair when she said that there needed to be more to our policy than funding cuts. That was a gross distortion, and failed to note the direction of travel that is clearly set out in “Green Light for Better Buses” and our proposed changes to funding arrangements. That constitutes a policy that we believe will help to deliver better arrangements for our buses. Combined with our response to the Competition Commission, it sets out a clear policy. The hon. Lady may disagree with it, but it is a clear policy. In fact, the Committee’s findings suggest that she does not disagree with much of it.

We have made it clear that partnership is a highly effective way of delivering quality, affordable bus services, and I welcome the hon. Lady’s endorsement of partnerships as a good way forward. Our better bus area proposals are indicative of that. The purpose of such areas is to ensure that councils and operators work together, because that is more successful than a council wanting to drive forward policies, perhaps for good reasons, when the bus industry is not interested. Similarly, if the bus industry has good ideas, but a council is unresponsive, those ideas will not be delivered. The proposal to financially incentivise two groups of people to come together is entirely sensible, and can only work to the benefit of the public.

We will support the integration of services when that is in the public interest, and we will encourage the roll-out of smart, multi-operator ticketing. We will monitor local authorities as they develop their partnership agreements, liaising with the Office of Fair Trading when necessary—the Chair of the Committee made this point—to ensure that competition law does not become an insurmountable barrier to sensible service improvements.

[Lilian Greenwood]

Does the Minister share my concern that a false distinction is sometimes made between quality contracts and partnerships? We all want effective partnerships, and the Labour Government legislated to promote them. When I was in Copenhagen, I saw how tendering and partnerships between operators and transport authorities do not just co-exist; they are essential to policy success. It is artificial and misleading to present them as two completely different things. They can work together, and funding should follow.

[Norman Baker]

The hon. Lady is tempting me to respond to the consultation exercise, which I will do with clarity in due course. A point about quality contracts that I made to the Select Committee in response to the hon. Member for Blackley and Broughton (Graham Stringer) was that they are there in law:

“They are there as part of the Local Transport Act 2008”—

I was a member of the Committee—

“They remain on the statute book.”

There is no intention of removing them from the statute book and I expect the law to be respected by all parties. I would take a dim view of any bus company or anyone else who sought to undermine the law of the land as it is on the statute book.

On resources for traffic commissioners, to which the Committee referred, the coalition Government has already given a commitment to review their role in the next financial year as part of a wider review of non-departmental public bodies. It is sensible to include a look at their public service vehicle work as part of that review.

I shall pick up individual points that hon. Members have raised this afternoon. The Chair of the Transport Committee referred to multi-operator ticketing and whether it would require new legislation. We have made it clear that we strongly support multi-operator ticketing. We believe it is important to deliver the sorts of outcomes that passengers want, and to avoid the situation to which the hon. Member for Bolton West (Julie Hilling) referred of passengers buying a ticket and then having to buy a further ticket to get home. That cannot be a sensible outcome for passengers, and cannot help public transport generally. We do not want that.

[Mr Peter Bone in the Chair]

We have made it clear to bus companies that we want multi-operator ticketing. We have also made it clear that we reserve the right to introduce legislation if that does not occur. We hope that it will occur—there is some evidence of that—not least because in Oxford where it is occurring, the bus companies have discovered that it is in their financial interest. I am confident that the bus industry has bought the idea of multi-operator ticketing, and that it will become increasingly common throughout the country. However, we reserve the right to take that forward in legislation if necessary.

We also believe that transparency is important. I welcome any figures that can be produced to help passengers and to give a wider perspective of how the industry is performing, and indeed how the Government is performing. Anyone who knows about my role in Parliament will know that I have been hugely committed to transparency in all sorts of areas throughout my time here. We must avoid placing huge extra burdens on industry for not much return, so we cannot require endless figures to be produced if they are of little value, but in principle we are certainly open to any suggestions for extra information that is genuinely valuable. If the Committee has particular issues in mind, I will be happy to consider them.

My hon. Friend the Member for Milton Keynes South (Iain Stewart) referred to door-to-door journeys. He called them end-to-end journeys. I have discussed with the rail and bus industry how to describe them, but I will not bore him with the nuances of that conversation. Suffice it to say that the general view was that we should call them door-to-door journeys, and that is what the Department is doing. It will shortly produce information on such journeys to aid the process. It will cover the bus and rail industries, and ensure that different modes of transport are joined up. In best practice they are, but sometimes they are not.

My hon. Friend was right to refer to the role of smart ticketing, which is key to delivering door-to-door journeys properly. He said that it is necessary for people to be confident that they will get the cheapest fare when they use a new ticket-purchasing method for their journey. I absolutely share that view. For the railways it is a key objective of the fare and ticketing review that people buy the ticket that is appropriate for their journey, and do not pay over the odds unnecessarily. Obtaining the best possible deal for rail and bus passengers, which also involves transparency, is to the fore of the Government’s thinking.

I always listen with interest to the hon. Member for Blackley and Broughton when he talks about transport, because for many years he has demonstrated a genuine commitment and great knowledge. He referred to London’s upside, but he will recognise that it also has its downside. There are pros and cons with the London arrangement, and I am familiar with both. In any assessment of what is best for one area it would be wise to consider the upside and downside in London when considering arrangements for buses.

The hon. Gentleman referred to concessionary fares. There will be no change in the arrangements during this Parliament. That is what the coalition Government has said, but what individual parties do in their manifestos will be a matter for them as we approach the next general election.

The hon. Member for Bolton West raised the interesting matter of—I suppose, though she did not frame it in this way—the purpose of bus travel. What is the objective that we, or local councils, are seeking to deliver and what are bus operators delivering by running buses? There are different reasons, it seems to me, why buses are run. One is to provide a regular means of transport at a high frequency along corridors such as Oxford road, which is effective, or can be effective, in securing modal shift from the motor car, and thereby, in theory, easing congestion, reducing carbon emissions, and providing a viable public transport alternative. As we have seen in London and elsewhere, there is no question but that when we have frequent services and people turn up without having to think about the timetable, it drives passenger numbers up, creating a virtuous circle where buses become more attractive and more buses can be run. We have that in many parts of our country—not all, but in many parts—including much of London. However, it could be argued—this is one of the downsides of London, I might say—that sometimes, and it is my view, there is an over-provision of buses, which run significantly empty on occasions, back to back all the way along the road. That is a particular problem on Oxford street, as opposed to Oxford road.

It seems to me that the second purpose of a bus is to provide a social function and a necessary connection between those who are without private transport but need a bus to get to a school, a hospital, or whatever it happens to be. The hon. Member for Bolton West suggested that the answer was route-bundling, which is a perfectly legitimate philosophical view. However, I would say that route-bundling may satisfy her need for buses that go round the houses, but what is the consequence for Oxford road, or buses along high-frequency corridors? I am not sure that we can have both—perhaps we can. If we reduce high-frequency corridors to provide buses round the houses, that may meet more social needs, but it may secure less modal shift from road. I raise that philosophically to point out that such things are not perhaps as straightforward as they are sometimes presented.

[Julie Hilling]

I certainly had not taken my thoughts to the level of “Well, if you are going to provide a service here, you are taking a service off somewhere else.” For me, it is more about running the Oxford road service with that frequency, and alongside that, having another area of routes. Some will be highly lucrative and others less so. It is less about the distribution of resources, and more about saying, “Yes, we need to provide this service and those services.” It is not about taking resources away to provide them.

[Norman Baker]

Many of us, including me, would like to have our cake and eat it, would we not? “Eat our cake and have it” was, I think, the original English phrase, which makes more sense. If we can do that, fantastic, but I draw attention to the conundrum about the supply of buses and what is done with them.

The hon. Lady and the hon. Member for Blackley and Broughton referred to the costs of bus services in Manchester, and the hon. Gentleman made what might be termed “uncomplimentary comments” about FirstGroup. To be fair, I understand that FirstGroup recently reduced its weekly tickets to £13 from £18 in Manchester. FirstGroup tells me that initial signs are positive, with passenger growth levels ahead of 5% in just eight weeks, meaning that, so far, more than 300,000 bus journeys have been made on the reduced fares. It tells me that that is part of a long-term plan to rebase bus passenger levels in Manchester.

Assuming all that is correct, and there is no reason to think that it is not, it is a welcome development. I have often tried to persuade public transport operators that cutting fares can be useful in driving up business, and if that is what is being demonstrated by FirstGroup in Manchester, as it appears to be, it is a welcome development. I hope everybody would agree that it could potentially lead to more buses, cheaper fares and the creation of the virtuous circle that I referred to.

[Julie Hilling]

The Minister is being extremely generous in giving way. My understanding is that that experiment is in one part of the conurbation, and it certainly does not include services to Bolton and other parts. Hopefully, if that experiment is working for FirstGroup, it might consider bringing costs down across the conurbation.

[Norman Baker]

Precisely. If it is working, and it appears to be, it would be wise commercially to see where else it might apply. Doubtless, the people at FirstGroup are listening to this debate very carefully, and they will have heard the hon. Lady’s pitch for a similar scheme for Bolton West and elsewhere, no doubt, in the conurbation.

The hon. Lady asked what we would do to roll out something like Oyster. I can assure her that we are doing a great deal of work on smart cards, or smart ticketing—it is becoming difficult to get the right form, because we talk about mobile phones and everything else, and there is no simple phrase these days to describe all that. As a Government, one of the first things that we did was give a big sum of money to the various passenger transport executives to help develop smart ticketing in their areas, and we are giving other help as well. That money is forthcoming for rail and bus.

The hon. Lady asked what we would do to help Greater Manchester. I hope that we will do a great deal. We continue to work productively with the integrated transport authority up there. I am always very happy to meet its representatives and hear any concerns that they have. We have, in fact, given a great deal of money to Manchester for transport in the past two and a half years, including the beginning of the delivery of the entire northern hub, so I hope that we are doing a good deal to help transport in that area.

I was asked about data on bus spend. I am advised that DCLG collects some of those data and they are published as part of its annual statistics—not just on supported services, but more generally. On best practice, I think it is something that has value, but it is predominantly for the local government family in this new era of localism to identify that themselves. Of course, we are interested in it, and talk regularly to our local government colleagues and to the Association of Transport Coordinating Officers, for example. However, it is broadly my view that the Local Government Association needs to do rather more to step up to the plate and identify best practice, rather than simply seeing itself as a body that lobbies Government for something. In the new era of localism, it has a different role to play, which I hope it will develop rather more than it has done. We are helping local government in many ways, including through providing guidance for local authorities on tendering.

[Graham Stringer]

I have listened carefully to what the Minister has said. I feel that he is coming to the end of his speech, and he is being very generous in giving way and covering all the issues. However, I have not heard him answer the question asked by my hon. Friend the Member for Liverpool, Riverside (Mrs Ellman) about the deregistration of services, and whether he will legislate to ensure that, when services are registered, both ridership and fare information is made public.

[Norman Baker]

Let me muse on that matter for a moment—until I become inspired—and deal with the points made by the hon. Member for Nottingham South as part of my closing remarks. I have noted with interest her support—increased support, I might say—for quality contracts, and her proposal for bus deregulation exemption zones. The Opposition is of course entitled to produce its own policy and I look forward, with interest, to that evolving. Therefore, perhaps it would be churlish of me to point out that for 13 years, some of us were making such arguments and they were batted back and we were told that what we were proposing, which may not be terribly different from what she is now suggesting, was a load of old nonsense. It would, however, be churlish to make that point.

I do not think that it is true to say we are in a great cycle of decline. I say to the Opposition that there are issues about the bus industry that I have been happy to accept, including what some councils have done in terms of bus cuts and the real impact that has on individuals in those areas. However, I encourage her not to exaggerate the position. That “great cycle of decline”, as I mentioned yesterday, shows an increase in passenger journeys of 0.6% over the last 12 months. Even if we take out London, a decline of only 0.8% is shown. It is not a great cycle of decline, and we must not talk down the bus industry and the opportunities for users.

[Lilian Greenwood]

I want to clarify that they were not my words but those of Passenger Transport. Just this week, it expressed its concern about the impact of a number of things, including cost rises and funding cuts. It is not just me who has real concern about the future of the bus industry—that view is widely held—and I just wish the Minister would respond to it.

[Norman Baker]

I have responded to it, and I have indicated that we are not into a great cycle of decline. I indicated that commercial services are holding up very well. The bus industry is responding with ingenuity and innovation. It is taking steps to take over some of the services that have been tendered and that were run by councils. Indeed, it is beginning to grow the market in places. The initiatives in Manchester and Sheffield, where fares have been cut, shows us a way to grow the market. I do not accept that we are into a great cycle of decline; nor do I think that it is helpful for anyone, whether the Opposition, Passenger Focus or anyone else—whoever the hon. Lady happens to be referring to —to talk about these matters in such apocalyptic terms.

The hon. Lady said that buses had been cut completely in Hartlepool and that it did not have to be that way. No, it does not. She should perhaps ask Hartlepool council why things are that way there, because they are not that way in other councils.

The hon. Lady said that local authorities are best placed to provide leadership, and we entirely agree, which is why we are pursuing a policy of localism. However, I hope she will accept, as we do, that that will produce a non-uniform picture across the country, as local authorities behave in different ways as a result of the freedom that they have been given.

The hon. Lady says that Labour is committed to devolution, and I am delighted to hear that, because I did not notice much of it in the 13 years of the previous Government. However, if she is now going along with our localism proposals, that is very welcome. That sends a message that there will, I hope, be no reversal of the localism that the Government has pursued, in the unlikely event that Labour forms the next Government. That will give local authorities some comfort that the direction of travel will not be changed.

On deregistration, the hon. Member for Blackley and Broughton will recognise that primary legislation would be required and is difficult to achieve slots for. Alongside every other Department, we have to make a case to be given spare time to pursue the matter, so we are not looking to legislate. We are exploring voluntary options, but, as with all things, we reserve the right to introduce legislation if necessary. I very much hope that it will not be, and we are certainly getting quite a long way down the track on a whole range of issues by taking a constructive, engaging, voluntary approach with local councils and the bus industry.

Let me end on a note of agreement. I share the views of the hon. Member for Nottingham South about the hon. Member for Barrow and Furness (John Woodcock). I very much understand why he has taken his decision, and we all wish him a full recovery and a speedy return to the Front Bench.

Rising Cost of Transport

Norman Baker Excerpts

Wednesday 9th January 2013 Commons Chamber

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Transport (Norman Baker)]

We are.

[Maria Eagle]

We will wait and see what action the Government take before we conclude that they are being tough—I am just encouraging them to be tough.

--- Later in debate ---

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Transport (Norman Baker)]

I am grateful for the opportunity to respond to the House on the crucial issue of public transport fares. I thank all those who contributed to today’s debate, and in the time remaining I will try to refer to as many of the issues raised as possible.

Let me say first that we fully understand and share concerns about the impact of public transport fares on the cost of living. That is why we have committed to retain free concessionary bus travel for older and disabled people. By the way, I applaud bus operators for offering free travel to jobseekers during this month to help them back into work. That is why we protected bus subsidy from the worst of the cuts and provided significant new funding streams to promote bus travel, and that is why we have chosen to keep the average cost of fare rises on the railway to 1% above inflation, scrapping the planned RPI plus 3% that would have otherwise come into effect this month.

Of course, we have inherited a position from the previous Labour Government who from 2004 onwards adopted a policy of relentless, real-terms year-on-year increases of 1% above inflation, a policy to which I understand the Labour party is still indefinitely committed. I note that from 1997 to 2010, rail fares rose by 66% under the previous Government. This Government, on the other hand, are determined to end the era of above-inflation rises as soon as we can, and I will come on to that in a moment.

Unlike the Labour party, which presided over a bloated and inefficient Network Rail and did nothing about it, we are taking forward steps with the industry, including a reinvigorated Network Rail, to reduce its costs by up to 30%. That is progressing well and we will release significant funds to return to the taxpayer and to the fare payer.

[Oliver Colvile (Plymouth, Sutton and Devonport) (Con)]

Does my hon. Friend recognise that in the south-west we have a very big problem with flooding? We need to have the A303 dualled and the A38 sorted out. We need more trains getting into Plymouth early, and we need to ensure that we have more three-hour train journeys.

[Norman Baker]

I was in the south-west yesterday, in Exeter and Newton Abbott, and I saw fully the problems of the Somerset levels and Cowley bridge in particular. I am taking that specific matter up with Network Rail. As for the other matters, my hon. Friend has put his points firmly on the record, as I am sure he intended.

Detractors—I am afraid I include those on the Opposition Front Bench—have sought to find the biggest fare rise and portray it as representative of the whole story, which of course is simply misleading. Why they wish to frighten people off the railway, I am not entirely clear. Fares are not as expensive as some wish to present. Passengers who look beyond the headline quotes will see the bigger picture on train fares. Under the rules that permit flexibility within fares baskets—the Opposition apparently now dislike them, but they were very happy with them when they introduced them and carried them through for a number of years—for every fare that increases by more than the average, other fares must increase by less than the average, remain static or fall.

The hon. Member for Garston and Halewood (Maria Eagle) has made a big play about the 5% available to train companies. I did not hear her condemn the fact that Labour introduced that. I did not hear her condemn that fact that it was introduced on the very eve of the 2010 general election, with a legal proviso saying that it should be reversed on 1 January 2011. I did not hear her condemn the Labour-run Welsh Government, where flex continues to operate—or is it all right in Wales and not in England? Nor did I hear her refer in her opening remarks to the fares that have risen below inflation, or even come down. For example, season tickets between Shenfield and London, and between Gatwick and Croydon, have come down. Why does she want the passengers buying those season tickets to pay more under her arrangements than they are paying under our arrangements? Why does she want commuters between Ormskirk and Blackpool, who have seen their fares come down by 9%, to pay more? This is opportunism with a capital O that we are hearing from the Opposition. Of course, they are not interested in the fares that have come down. They are not interested in helping passengers; they are interested in misrepresenting the position to make political points. [Interruption.] Passengers welcome the fact that there are many cheap deals available on the railway that they can take advantage of.

Let me say this. Of course, there are some higher fares and there are particular higher fares paid by commuters. Everyone on the Government Benches recognises that, which is why we are busy looking at the fares and ticketing review and why we have sought to ensure we get better value from the railways to enable money to be returned to the taxpayer and the fare payer. It is also the case, however, that those who are able to travel outside the busiest periods can benefit from some of the cheapest fares in Europe. For example, advance fares are available from London to Birmingham, Manchester or Leeds for £6, or from London to Glasgow in the middle of the day for less than £30. Cheap advance fares have been a major contributor to the massive growth in the number of people using our railways in recent years. It is a real success story, and one of the reasons why we have more people on the railway now than at any time since 1929. That is not the picture the Opposition wish to portray, but it is the truth nevertheless.

My hon. Friend the Member for Milton Keynes South (Iain Stewart) rightly referred to the need for a balanced comparison between different fares. Independent analysis by the website he referred to, “The Man in Seat Sixty-One”, has shown that only 15%, or thereabouts, of the tickets available in the UK are among the highest-priced in Europe. The other 85% are equal to, if not cheaper than, their comparators in other European countries.

On the fares and ticketing review, we are determined to ensure that passenger interests are catered for. We know that the picture can be confusing, even to the initiated, so we are considering how to make fares and ticketing more modern, more transparent, more flexible and more user friendly. In response to the Chairman of the Transport Committee, I say that we are doing a great deal on smart ticketing, which is integral to the fares and ticketing review, and transparency is a key element of that review. By driving innovation and exploiting the opportunities from new technologies, we can make the railway easier to use, tackle crowding and make the best possible use of the existing network.

On buses, if we believed what the Opposition said, we would think we were approaching the end of civilisation, that there were no buses left on the roads, and that it had turned into “Mad Max 3”. Indeed, I get the impression that Labour would grimly welcome that, with an “I told you so” satisfaction, were it to materialise.

On 28 February, the hon. Member for Nottingham South (Lilian Greenwood) warned of a Beeching-style cull of our bus network. It is true that in some areas local authorities have cut services probably unnecessarily. Campaign for Better Transport refers to Nottingham city council, which is Labour-run, Stoke-on-Trent city council, Darlington borough council, Leicester city council and Halton borough council, so perhaps she should put her own house in order before she starts attacking the Government.

Here is the good news, which we would not get from the Opposition either: passenger journeys in 2012, measured on the third quarter, are up 0.6% from the same quarter the year before. [Interruption.] Members are shouting about London. Even with London taken out, passenger journeys are down just 0.8% on last year. Is that a Beeching-style cut? Total bus mileage is only down 0.8% as well.

We are seeing that good innovation can work wonders. In Sheffield, for example, a wonderful partnership has been established by the South Yorkshire Passenger Transport Executive, and the price of multi-operated tickets has been reduced by 14% to stimulate passenger growth further. In Sheffield, First has reduced its commercial fares by almost 40%. Weekly and daily tickets now cost £11 and £3.40 respectively, compared to the previous prices of £18.50 and £4.60. FirstGroup has seen passenger growth higher than 20% across the whole of Sheffield, which equates to more than 50,000 additional First Bus journeys. We want to see bus companies working with local authorities. It is driving up passenger numbers, where they make the effort, but where they are slashing and burning, as they are in some local authorities, of course the consequences are different.

The hon. Member for Harrogate and Knaresborough (Andrew Jones) quite rightly referred to electrification taking costs out of the railway. That is a key purpose in what we are doing, as well reducing carbon emissions. I am very proud to be part of a Government which is electrifying 850 miles of track—one in nine miles of the network being electrified, compared with the nine miles electrified by the previous Government in 13 years. I have heard no apology for that failure to invest in the future.

[Mr Alan Campbell (Tynemouth) (Lab)]

claimed to move the closure (Standing Order No. 36).

Question put forthwith, That the Question be now put.

Question agreed to.

Main Question accordingly put.