Trial by Jury: Proposed Restrictions

Sarah Sackman Excerpts

Wednesday 9th July 2025 Commons Chamber

[Robert Jenrick (Newark) (Con)]

(Urgent Question): To ask the Secretary of State for Justice if she will make a statement on her plans to restrict trial by jury through the creation of a Crown court bench division and related sentencing changes.

[The Minister of State, Ministry of Justice (Sarah Sackman)]

This Government inherited a justice system in crisis, with record and rising backlogs in our criminal courts, leaving victims in limbo as they wait to see justice done. For that reason, the Lord Chancellor commissioned Sir Brian Leveson to undertake a once-in-a-generation review of the criminal courts. We are grateful to Sir Brian for all his work. His report confirms that the system we inherited is broken, and that if we do nothing, it will collapse. We welcome the ambitious recommendations that he has put forward, and agree that a crisis of this scale requires bold action. We must consider any measures that will put our courts on a more stable and sustainable footing. Victims and the public deserve swift justice and a court system that they can have confidence in.

We will carefully consider Sir Brian’s recommendations on jury trials, along with everything else, before providing a formal response to Parliament in the autumn. Jury trials are and will remain a cornerstone of British justice, and will remain in place for the most serious cases. However, justice delayed is justice denied. The system was not designed for a scenario where tens of thousands of victims wait years for justice. The Lord Chancellor and this Government are committed to turning the tide on the Crown court backlog by the end of this Parliament and creating a sustainable justice system fit for the 21st century.

[Robert Jenrick]

All of us agree that justice delayed is justice denied. That is why it is so important to get control of the court backlog. No one pretends that this is straightforward, but the Government have made the crisis worse. The backlog is at a record high, and accelerating, with 750 cases being added every month. Sir Brian Leveson’s review rightly acknowledges that we must increase the number of court sitting days. We thank him for his work and welcome many of his recommendations.

However, it cannot be right to give another sentencing discount to those convicted of crimes such as burglary and stalking. That could see criminals serve as little as a fifth of their sentence, when combined with the Gauke review—20% of a sentence served. Is that justice for victims? Out of court settlements for drug dealers and thieves mean that they will not even get a criminal record. It makes a mockery of the justice system.

Just as concerning is the proposal to scrap jury trials in many cases. The report admits that this will have only a “limited effect” on the backlog. It will save just £31 million—0.2% of the Department’s budget. As the report states, there is no limit to the cases for which jury trials could be scrapped. This is a slippery slope towards abolishing jury trials altogether.

Jury trials have been a central part of our constitution for centuries—in Magna Carta, and indeed before it. They are a gift that we have given to the world. To throw them away so casually shows a total disregard for our constitution, and for such limited benefit. It seems that too many on the Government Benches want to scrap jury trials regardless of the backlog, because they do not trust the British public’s instincts on justice. They say that judges know best; we say that the public know best. It does not have to be this way. The Government must take up the Lady Chief Justice’s offer of more sitting days. Will the Minister rule out yet another sentencing cut for criminals? Will she rule out letting drug dealers and thieves avoid even a criminal record? Does she accept that scrapping jury trials is a disgraceful and unnecessary rejection of one of our country’s proudest and most ancient liberties?

[Sarah Sackman]

What I did not hear in any of that was an apology. It is extraordinary to hear that the shadow Justice Secretary has suddenly discovered a sense of urgency, but where was that sense of urgency in the past 14 years? The so-called party of law of order allowed two things to happen. First, it took our prison system to the brink of collapse. That let down the public, and it let down victims—soft on crime, and soft on law and order. Secondly, it allowed the backlogs in our Crown courts to run out of control to record highs.

For 14 years the Conservatives did absolutely nothing, so let me explain the contrast with a party and a Government who are gripping the crisis and who are tough on law and order. We commissioned one of their own—Sir David Gauke—to give us his sentencing review. We commissioned one of our most revered judges, Sir Brian Leveson, who today has set out his recommendations. We will not provide our policy response today, because that demands and requires seriousness—not what we hear from the shadow Justice Secretary, but serious, careful analysis—and we will provide our formal response to the House in the autumn.

But we are not delaying. We are not waiting; we are investing in the system. To take up the challenge from the right hon. Gentleman about what the Lady Chief Justice said, we have already done what the previous Government failed to do, with an additional 4,000 Crown court sitting days and a record level of 110,000 sitting days a year—up from what the so-called party of law and order gave us. We also understand that we need proper system capacity. As we heard from the Lord Chancellor yesterday, this is not simply about adding more Crown court sitting days; as Sir Brian Leveson tells us—had the right hon. Gentleman bothered to read the report—we cannot simply sit our way out of this crisis.

We have to build system capacity—more judges, more prosecutors, more defence lawyers, and more court ushers. Of course we need to invest in the system, which is what the Government are doing with a promise of £450 million into our courts, additional to what the Conservative party provided. We are staying laser-focused on our mission, which is to provide swifter justice for victims, and restore public confidence in a justice system that was left to rack and ruin by the Conservative party.

The right hon. Gentleman has jumped the gun: we have been very clear that we are going to consider Sir Brian’s careful and detailed report, and we are going to listen to those who represent victims, and to the barristers and judges who do such an exceptional job. We will do what it takes for the victim who, if she reports a rape or serious crime, is told that she will have to wait until 2028, or 2029 in some cases, for her day in court. That is unacceptable, and that is why we will do whatever it takes, with the seriousness that the previous Government simply failed to have.

[Mr Speaker]

I call the Chair of the Justice Committee.

[Andy Slaughter (Hammersmith and Chiswick) (Lab)]

What Sir Brian’s comprehensive report demonstrates is the terrible state that our once envied criminal justice system was left in by the shadow Lord Chancellor and his colleagues. Does my hon. and learned Friend agree with Sir Brian that digging ourselves out of the hole in which they left us will require more investment, greater efficiency and structural change? Is that the debt that we owe to victims of crime in particular, to ensure that they get justice? It is up to this Government to put right the wrongs that have been done over the past 14 years.

[Sarah Sackman]

As ever, my hon. Friend the Chair of the Justice Committee, gives a considered response and he is absolutely right. There needs to be a recognition of the scale of the problem and two things are required: investment and reform. When hon. Members read the report, they will see that Sir Brian is very clear that we need investment. This Government are already beginning to make that investment, through the additional Crown court sitting days that we have laid on this year; running the system at system max; additional funding for legal aid lawyers and criminal legal aid; and £92 million to keep the sector going, on both the defence and the prosecutorial sides. We are making that investment but, critically, as Sir Brian makes absolutely clear, that alone will not be enough. We need to consider once-in-a-generation structural reforms that will run a sustainable, proportionate system that will allow us to deliver swifter justice for victims. Investment and reform: that is what we will be getting on with and that is what we will report on in the autumn.

[Dr Neil Shastri-Hurst (Solihull West and Shirley) (Con)]

The Minister will know the high regard in which I hold her. With that in mind, does she, in her own heart, believe that intermediate courts will fix the criminal court backlog, or does she agree with the legal profession that that risks being a costly distraction from investing in the existing system? Does she agree with me that chipping away jury trials in the name of speed risks undermining the cornerstone of British justice?

[Sarah Sackman]

As I said in my opening response, jury trials will remain a cornerstone for British justice for the most serious cases but, as Sir Brian Levenson evidences in his careful report, juryless trials can be swifter trials. To put that into context, 90% of criminal trials in this country are currently heard without a jury—that is how our criminal justice system currently functions. Of course it is right that we listen to those who participate in the system, whether they are prosecuting or defending those in the system, but it is also right that we listen to the voices who have welcomed today’s report: the head of the Met police, former Lord Chancellors, a former Lord Chief Justice and the Victims’ Commissioner. Their voices matter too. Just as Sir Brian has done, we need to consider a package of measures capable of alleviating the acute crisis in which we find ourselves.

[Warinder Juss (Wolverhampton West) (Lab)]

Does my hon. and learned Friend agree that trial by jury is, and will always remain, a fundamental concept of our British justice system, but we also need to ensure that we restore victims’ faith in the system, and do what we can to ensure justice is not denied by justice being delayed?

[Sarah Sackman]

My hon. Friend is absolutely right. The shadow Secretary of State for Justice quotes Magna Carta, but the state’s obligation is to ensure a fair trial, and essential to a fair trial is timely justice. In circumstances where some victims of crime are waiting two or three years for their day in court, that is not fair. In fact, that is resulting in many victims pulling out of trials, rendering court time wasted and retraumatising those victims. What the shadow Secretary of State for Justice has not read is the entirety of Magna Carta. I quote:

“To no one will we…delay right or justice.”

The right to a timely trial is embedded in Magna Carta, and we need to get back to delivering it.

[Mr Speaker]

I call the Liberal Democrat spokesperson.

[Josh Babarinde (Eastbourne) (LD)]

In his urgent question, the shadow Secretary of State for Justice said that “the public knows best”. For once, I agree with him, which is why the public threw out the last Conservative Government after they crashed our criminal justice system.

Yesterday, I made the case for safeguarding the guarantors of our justice system—our jury trials. However, today, on behalf of the Liberal Democrats, I want to raise our concerns that reclassifying certain offences and drawing on magistrates to run the new intermediate courts risks putting unbearable strain on the magistrates courts, jeopardising their ability to deliver swift justice, especially for survivors of domestic abuse crimes. Before adopting any new proposals, will the Minister publish an impact assessment of the measures on victims in magistrates courts, and will she rule out any measures that will delay justice, safety or freedom for survivors of domestic abuse?

[Sarah Sackman]

The proposal for the reclassification of certain offences in Sir Brian’s report is just that: it is Sir Brian’s recommendation. As I have said already, we need to take those recommendations away and consider whether they are appropriate for our justice system. The hon. Gentleman is right to highlight the essential role that the magistrates play in our criminal justice system. Currently, some 90% of criminal trials are heard in our magistrates courts and they do a phenomenal job. That is why we are continuing to recruit 2,000 magistrates annually and we want a more diverse magistracy—all of that will be essential. He is right that these proposals, which Sir Brian has conveyed as a package, need to interlock and to be operable together, so we are taking the summer to engage with stakeholders, such as the Magistrates’ Association, to ensure that we get this right.

[Matt Bishop (Forest of Dean) (Lab)]

With the Crown court backlog that we inherited at such high levels, and continuing to rise, does the Minister agree that tackling it means not just adding more sitting days but making fundamental reform?

--- Later in debate ---

[Sarah Sackman]

The crisis that we inherited in our criminal courts, with record and rising backlogs, is intolerable. The human impact of that on people, whether they are victims, witnesses or they serve in the criminal justice system, is simply intolerable. If we do nothing, as the Conservative party was all too willing to do, the system will, in the words of one of its own, former Lord Chancellor Alex Chalk, become “irrecoverable”. It is not enough to sit our way out of this crisis—we must have radical structural reform as well. That is the abiding lesson of Sir Brian’s report, and we will take it on board.

[Sir Ashley Fox (Bridgwater) (Con)]

We should thank Sir Brian for his report and carefully consider his recommendations. Criminals already get a one-third discount for an early guilty plea, and the idea that that should be increased to 40% risks undermining trust in the criminal justice system by victims. Jury trials are a centuries old cornerstone of the British justice system. The creation of an intermediate court to save £35 million is not worth it, when we have 81 empty courtrooms, and judges available and ready to sit. We need to build capacity and make the jury system work.

[Sarah Sackman]

I agree with the hon. Gentleman that we all owe a debt of gratitude to Sir Brian Leveson and his team for the comprehensive review that they have undertaken, to which the Government will be giving due consideration over the summer, before we formally provide our response. We have to ensure that whatever package of proposals we take forward knits together with the recommendations from the Gauke review and the outcome of the spending review that the Ministry of Justice has received, with a commitment to make an additional investment of £450 million in our courts. I want to address his point about intermediate courts: they are not about saving money, but about addressing the backlog, delivering swifter justice for victims and having a criminal justice system in which the public can have confidence. If this package of ideas is right and will achieve that aim, we will pursue it.

[Emily Thornberry (Islington South and Finsbury) (Lab)]

I spent the first 20 years of my professional life in the criminal courts as a barrister. There is no one who loves the criminal justice system, or who has more respect for juries, than I do. However, the courts now are not what they were. The delays are so appalling that defendants just plead “not guilty”, because they know that their case will not come up for years, and the chances of actually facing justice are minimal. It is in that extreme state, which we have inherited from the Conservative Government, that radical action is needed. I know that my hon. Friends on the Government Front Bench feel as I do about the criminal justice system and want it to work, so when they are looking at Sir Brian’s recommendations, will they consider a sunset clause? If his recommendations work, there will come a time when we can increase the amount of jury service again.

[Sarah Sackman]

My right hon. Friend speaks with huge authority and personal experience of how our Crown courts operate. Like us, she is committed to restoring and rebuilding our criminal justice system to what it once was, and to a system fit for the 21st century that the public can have confidence in. That means adapting our methods, taking on new technologies and becoming more efficient. All of that will come in the second part of Sir Brian’s review, as we have asked him to do. I will not pre-empty the response or give a running commentary on it, but all those things will be taken into account as we consider our response over the summer.

[Mr Joshua Reynolds (Maidenhead) (LD)]

Last year, I was on a jury. We all know that we need to get the court backlog down, but my experience at Reading Crown court was that the availability of jurors really is not an issue. Many of us sat there for hours upon hours, and several jurors were dismissed on the Thursday, having never set foot in a courtroom. Before we restrict the number of jury trials, what work have the Government done to actually understand the utilisation of jurors to see how many are being used and whether they could be used more effectively?

[Sarah Sackman]

I thank the hon. Gentleman and all those who perform the civic duty of participating in a jury for their service. As I said, that will remain a cornerstone of British justice for the most serious cases, but that is not the issue. The issue is that demand coming into the system simply outstrips the rate at which the courts are able to address and dispose of those cases. We need to look at the system capacity, the amount of judicial time, the number of prosecutors and defence lawyers, and the availability of suitable court buildings, ushers and criminal legal aid. We need all that system capacity, and we need to get it working together to address the challenges that others have outlined. I remind the hon. Gentleman that not only are 90% of our criminal trials heard in magistrates courts, but it remains a fact that magistrates courts deliver a turnaround of cases on average four or five times faster than in Crown courts. That is swift justice for victims, and that is why we need to look at whole-system reform.

[Gareth Snell (Stoke-on-Trent Central) (Lab/Co-op)]

My constituents have a very simple view of the criminal justice system: they want to know that the victims of crime will have their day in court and that the perpetrators will have a punishment commensurate with the crime they commit. That underpins their faith in the system, so they come forward to report crime. While the Conservatives seek to talk down the justice system, will the Minister set out what she and her Department are doing to ensure that victims of crime feel confident enough to come forward to report crimes, hopeful that they will get the outcome they want?

[Sarah Sackman]

My hon. Friend speaks so passionately on behalf of his constituents. I think the public ask for something really simple: if people are unfortunate enough to be the victim of a crime, they expect to have their day in court in a timely fashion, not to be made to wait for years, only to find that the trial has become ineffective and is put off for yet another year. That undermines faith in the system, and that is what is so detrimental about the neglect and under-investment under the Conservatives. That has been so corrosive of trust in the justice system. It is not simply that we are not delivering swift justice for victims; it is that the public risk losing faith in our justice system, which to date has been one of the glories of this country.

[Sir Julian Lewis (New Forest East) (Con)]

Does the Minister agree that one of the worst features of the US justice system is the extreme process of plea bargaining, which gives such a huge differential if somebody pleads guilty that it creates a perverse incentive to do so, even if they are innocent but not confident that they will be acquitted? Can she guarantee that we are not going down that route, with a 40% discount for pleading guilty coupled with early release for other reasons?

[Sarah Sackman]

English common law and our commitment to the rule of law with our independent judiciary are part of what make this country great. We are not going to ape the American system, or indeed any other system. We will look carefully at the recommendations of Sir Brian Leveson’s report, including in relation to the use of Goodyear indications, but we know that our law is robust. Provided that we have a justice system that is up to the task of enforcing that law, that is what we are really focused on.

[Uma Kumaran (Stratford and Bow) (Lab)]

Under the Tories last year, 60% of rape victims dropped out of their cases because they were left waiting years for justice. We finally have a Justice Secretary who has put victims first and allocated the highest number of sitting days on record. Given all the outrage from the Conservatives at the size of the backlog, I am really keen to know what they did. Will the Minister answer what this Labour Government are doing to get justice for victims quicker?

[Sarah Sackman]

My hon. Friend is absolutely right. We talk about sitting days and backlogs, and it can all sound a little arid and academic, but it comes back to people. The fact that so many victims of rape and serious sexual offences pull out of the process is testament to the fact that the system is not working. That is the direct consequence of allowing the backlogs to run out of control. We have to keep victims engaged in the process, which is why we have invested specifically in victims services and why we are looking to strengthen the victims code. Ultimately, victims want swift justice. That is why we will take a careful look at Sir Brian’s recommendations and do what it takes to bring down the backlog.

[Liz Saville Roberts (Dwyfor Meirionnydd) (PC)]

Magistrates courts are already under significant stress: some 22% of trials do not go ahead on the day that they are listed. Removing the right to choose a jury trial for sentences of under two years under an intermediate court cannot reverse years of underfunding, the closure of local courts and severe staff shortages, from prosecutors to defence advocates. The consultation on the reform of local justice areas proposes to merge three north Wales benches, against the advice of local magistrates. Does the Minister recognise the risk of yet further disruption to justice in Wales?

[Sarah Sackman]

The right hon. Lady has described how important the role of the magistrates courts will be and the importance of whole-system reform. The Government are not looking to tweak one aspect—to tweak what goes on in the magistrates court or the Crown court. One of the geniuses of the magistrates court is the local link and the fact that it delivers local justice, so we will look at that carefully, but there is no getting away from it: the scale of the problem, and what Sir Brian’s report tells us, means that we need whole-system reform of the criminal justice system, from beginning to end.

[Chris Vince (Harlow) (Lab/Co-op)]

I thank the Minister for her statement and for the recognition of the importance of magistrates courts. Sadly, Harlow magistrates court was closed by the previous Government—as was Chorley magistrates court, of course. I recently spoke to a police officer in my constituency who has been a police officer for three years. He is being asked to gather evidence to go to court for crimes committed before he was even a police officer. Is it any wonder that victims have lost confidence in the system? This Government need to ensure that we have fundamental reforms to this process to ensure that people in my constituency get the justice they deserve.

[Mr Speaker]

And we can reopen the courts in Chorley—they are available.

[Sarah Sackman]

I come back to the fact that this Government are investing in our court estate. We have invested an additional £20 million in our court buildings for maintenance and to keep the show on the road, but my hon. Friend is absolutely right: the delays will reach a tipping point if we choose to do nothing about them, and that is simply not an option. The obligation on the state is to deliver a fair trial, and timeliness is critical to that. The longer the wait, the more likely it is that victims will pull out of the system and that the evidence becomes undermined, because people’s memories fade. That is why timeliness and getting the delays down is so critical to the mission we have to pursue.

[Mr Andrew Snowden (Fylde) (Con)]

Here we go again. Labour always talks tough on crime and always goes soft. The Minister talked about David Gauke as one of our own, as if that was some defence—I assure her that I probably have more in common with her than I do with David Gauke. That is not a good way to show off credentials on being tough on crime. I have seen at first hand where the courts, the police and the Crown Prosecution Service work together to cut through all the bureaucracy and backlogs to get tough on crime. In Lancashire, 23 organised crime gang members were being taken off the streets every single week through Op Warrior, with many remanded straight into prison and their cases going through the courts. I plead with the Minister to rule out as soon as possible any of the measures recommended that would see those organised crime gang members potentially not even getting a criminal record.

[Sarah Sackman]

It is a bit rich to accuse those on the Government Benches of being soft on crime. The hon. Gentleman’s party allowed the prisons to run hot and added 500 prison places in 14 years—we have committed the money for 14,000. That simply does not stand up to scrutiny. The Conservatives allowed the backlogs in the courts to simply run out of control, to the point where Alex Chalk—again, another of their own—pointed out that the position would become irrecoverable. That is the consequence of doing nothing. Being tough on crime is about rebuilding and investing in our criminal justice system, investing in prisons and our courts, delivering on the tough reforms that will be required to deliver swifter justice for victims and getting tough on exactly the sorts of gangs that the hon. Gentleman describes.

[Catherine Atkinson (Derby North) (Lab)]

After 14 years of Conservative government, victims of rape and serious sexual crimes are waiting years to see justice. It appears that the shadow Justice Secretary has recently discovered that our criminal justice system is broken. When does the Minister think he will discover who broke it?

[Mr Speaker]

Order. Mr Stuart, I do not need any challenges from you. You should know better; you are on the Speaker’s Panel of Chairs. You really do have to think about what you are saying. Your behaviour is getting intolerable.

[Sarah Sackman]

When the Victims’ Commissioner, the London Victims’ Commissioner and those who engage and support victims through victim services tell me that we have to take this opportunity for once-in-a-generation reform, because we are letting victims of crimes down, I take that more seriously than any other pleas for change. It is absolutely obvious that the delays from running a system with such record and rising backlogs and the failure to invest have real consequences for people’s lives. People are pulling out of the system and out of the process because they have simply lost faith in it. I will be thinking of their voices—of the victims—every day that we consider these proposals and drive them forward. Failure is not an option.

[Tessa Munt (Wells and Mendip Hills) (LD)]

I have caution about stripping back jury trials, so I ask the Government to commit to tackling court backlogs by investing in more court capacity, particularly in Bristol and the west country, by supporting rehabilitation to stop reoffending and people coming back into the system so quickly, and by addressing the root causes of crime. Will the Minister consider that under the Leveson proposals, there may be space for some of the best examples of the US courts system? Some states have next-day hearings for domestic abuse cases, where courts can catch perpetrators in the window of remorse, when they will recognise their guilt and accept that they need to change.

[Sarah Sackman]

The hon. Member is right that as we take forward and are ready to announce the package of reforms in response to Sir Brian’s review, we will consider how we can take forward the best of our existing system and, indeed, learn from other systems. Whether that is intensive supervision courts, where we have seen some good results, or tackling the root causes that lie behind crime and engaging in preventive measures, we should be doing all that. This is our opportunity. We have reached a point of crisis. We have reached the point of emergency—no more, no less—as a result of the inheritance from the previous Government, but we have got to take the opportunity to build back better, with a more sustainable and more innovative justice system that the public can have confidence in and that protects the public. That is what we must do. The hon. Member is right: we should learn, we should listen and we should build something better.

[Mark Ferguson (Gateshead Central and Whickham) (Lab)]

As I think Members across the House would agree, Alex Chalk, the former Lord Chancellor and Justice Secretary, was taken seriously in this place, as were his opinions. He recently said that some cases

“could conceivably be dealt with by a judge and two wingers, so reserve the Crown court for the most serious cases… It is helpful to look at which cases should be triable either way and which should be summary only.”

Does the Minister agree that it is worth taking note of serious voices like Alex Chalk, rather than the opportunism of the shadow Justice Secretary?

[Sarah Sackman]

This issue is far too serious not to take seriously. I listen to voices, such as those of the former Lord Chancellor, former Lord Chief Justice Sir Ian Burnett, the Victims’ Commissioner and Sir Mark Rowley. They are all saying that we have got to take these matters and these recommendations seriously. It is that serious work that this Government will engage in, and we will not duck the difficult decisions.

[Bob Blackman (Harrow East) (Con)]

The Minister rightly points to the comparative inefficiency between Crown courts and magistrates courts. The clear issue is that we need new technology to be introduced to Crown courts, so that people who are on trial and victims are served faster, quicker and more expediently. The reality is that many cases collapse as a result of the evidence not being sufficient or brought fast enough. Why, then, has the Minister allowed the efficiencies part of the Leveson report to be delayed? That could bring forward much-needed recommendations that we could action to cut the backlog.

[Sarah Sackman]

The hon. Member raises an extremely helpful point, which is about how we can improve efficiency in our courts through the use of technology, including technology that is improving rapidly before our eyes. For example, the Ministry of Justice is piloting the use of AI technology in some of our tribunals for transcription. How could that be utilised and rolled out more widely across courts and tribunals? He is absolutely right, but Sir Brian and his team, to give them their credit, have worked incredibly fast to produce a detailed, careful and well-evidenced report today. He will continue with part 2 of his review. Our job in the Ministry of Justice, as we develop our policy thinking, will be to bring those two parts of the review together to improve our criminal justice system.

[Ben Goldsborough (South Norfolk) (Lab)]

Some may say we are old school in South Norfolk, but I call it common sense. Criminals should be punished and victims should get their day of justice. Simply hoping that more sitting days will fix the Crown court backlog is not realistic, so I urge the Minister to be radical and ensure that offenders are punished and victims get their day in court.

--- Later in debate ---

[Sarah Sackman]

I can tell that my hon. Friend has taken the liberty of actually reading the report, because he has identified the central premise and argument that Sir Brian Leveson, one of our most distinguished judges, makes in it, which is this: we cannot simply sit our way out of the crisis we have inherited. We need to carefully consider once-in-a-generation structural reform. We have got to combine that with investment, too, which this Government are already doing with the 4,000 additional sitting days that we have added, over and above what the previous Government agreed. My hon. Friend is absolutely right: it is about investment plus reform.

[Carla Lockhart (Upper Bann) (DUP)]

Does the Minister accept that changes to fundamental rights, such as trial by jury, in one part of the United Kingdom could create serious divergence across jurisdictions and raise questions about equal access to justice for citizens in Northern Ireland?

[Sarah Sackman]

As the hon. Member well knows, justice is a devolved matter, and it is right that decisions involving justice are taken at the correct level, but I assure her and the rest of the House that the state’s obligation to provide a fair trial is paramount. Whether, as is currently the case, someone’s case is heard in the magistrates court without a jury, or whether, as for the most serious cases—and as will continue to be the case—a case is heard with a jury, the point is that the state must deliver a fair trial. The question of equal access to justice therefore simply will not arise.

[John Glen (Salisbury) (Con)]

Yesterday, the Bar Council facilitated a useful conversation with local barristers in the south-west. I think they have some reservations, but I will leave them to make representations. One thing that they did say, which I urge the Minister to feed into the provisions of the second half of the report, is about the efficiency of the forensics service and the transfer mechanism to bring prisoners into the courts. The delays and inefficiencies there, and the contracts that are laid that set out those services, can have a material impact on the efficiency of the court service. I urge the Minister to make sure that that is focused on, because that could have a massive impact. I have grave concerns about where things are.

Finally, as Chief Secretary to the Treasury, I allowed—against advice—Alex Chalk and his predecessor to make some capital-to-revenue switches in their budgets to deal with the urgency of this problem. I hope that is helpful to the Minister in her negotiations with the Treasury going forward.

[Mr Speaker]

Good luck, Minister.

[Sarah Sackman]

I thank the right hon. Gentleman for his typically helpful and constructive contribution. We are talking about a system that has so many moving parts, and that is why we will not give an instant response to Sir Brian’s review or to some of the points that the right hon. Gentleman raises. It is clear that we have got to get the whole system working.

In that vein, let me address our professions and our criminal Bar, who do a sterling job. I have engaged closely with the Bar Council and the Criminal Bar Association, and we need to do this in collaboration with them. It will be a team effort to rebuild our criminal justice system, and we will continue to engage over the summer as we bring together the necessary reforms to bring down the backlogs and deliver swifter justice for victims.

[Mr Paul Kohler (Wimbledon) (LD)]

I sympathise with the Minister’s frustration at the Tories’ brass neck. There is clearly a crisis in the criminal justice system, and it is clearly of their making. However, rather than undermining the jury system, we need to invest in our courts. Does the Minister agree that this is all about priorities? Is she going to use her limited budget to build more prisons and simply produce more prisoners, or use that limited money to invest in the criminal justice system and restorative justice?

[Sarah Sackman]

As I have made clear, we are investing in prison places. Only 500 were added in 14 years under the last Government, but we have committed money to the building of 14,000 new prison places as well as comprehensive sentencing reform. We have also committed £450 million to investment in our courts, whether it is used for court maintenance, additional funds for criminal legal aid, or additional—and now record—Crown court sitting days. However, as Sir Brian Leveson tells us, that is insufficient. That alone will not see a reduction in the delays affecting the victims about whom we have heard so much today. We must do what it takes, which necessitates both investment, which we are already beginning to make, and reform.

[Mr Adnan Hussain (Blackburn) (Ind)]

As a member of the Bar, I say this plainly: removing the right to jury trials is a reckless constitutional shortcut. As the Criminal Bar Association puts it, is not reform but retreat. Does the Minister agree that the right to choose between a jury and a judge-led trial must never be denied, and that the real solution lies in investing in the system that we have rather than dismantling its very foundations?

[Sarah Sackman]

I respect the hon. Gentleman as a fellow member of the Bar, but I also respect the views of Sir Brian Leveson, the Lord Chief Justice, the former Lord Chief Justice Sir Ian Burnett, and many other august legal minds who have themselves done so much to preserve our fundamental constitutional principles. What they understand is this: 90% of our current criminal trials do not take place with a jury, but what really is unfair, and what really does undermine fundamental constitutional rights, is a failure to deliver a timely trial. If the hon. Gentleman is asking victims of crime, or even those wrongly accused of a crime who want to clear their names, to wait two or three years for their day in court, that, I believe, is a denial of a constitutional right.

[Graham Stuart (Beverley and Holderness) (Con)]

I thank Sir Brian Leveson for his work and applaud all efforts to speed up the system, but what reassurance can the Minister give my constituents, who will see a reduction in access to jury trial as the beginning of a slippery edge leading to an ever greater erosion of one of the fundamental liberties and glories of this country?

[Sarah Sackman]

We are not setting out our policy response to the specific recommendations in Sir Brian’s review today. What we are recognising is his central thesis, which is that at present victims, including those in the right hon. Gentleman’s constituency, are being thoroughly let down by the delays that were allowed to accrue by his own party. With that in mind, I think it is clear that what we have to do is continue to make the record investment that we are already making, but combine it with structural reform—a package of reforms—that will not only drive efficiency but, fundamentally, deliver the swifter justice for victims that I believe we all wish to see.

[Caroline Voaden (South Devon) (LD)]

I share the concern about delays in justice—no rape victims should ever have to wait five years for their day in court—but I am seriously concerned about the limiting of trial by jury and how it could dent confidence. As the Minister considers these reforms over the summer, will she please give some thought to more serious investment in rehabilitation and resettlement work? The LandWorks project in my constituency has a reoffending rate of 5%. If we could roll out that type of work, we would reduce crime, which would relieve backlogs in the courts, and everyone could have their day in court more quickly.

[Sarah Sackman]

The holistic type of support involving the preventive interventions that the hon. Lady has described is exactly the sort of provision that we are considering, in combination with the investment and structural reforms that will also be needed. I know that my colleague in the other place, the Prisons Minister, is taking on board precisely that sort of package of rehabilitation models so that we can break this endless cycle of reoffending.

[Nick Timothy (West Suffolk) (Con)]

Over the weekend the Prime Minister rather pathetically told the BBC that he was “a hard bastard”. I think members of the public would find it surprising that letting criminals out of prison early is a way of showing that he is.

The Minister has said, not unreasonably, that she wants time to consider Sir Brian’s recommendations, but it is the case that some things are clearcut. Will she take this opportunity to rule out reducing sentences by 40% for criminals who plead guilty?

[Sarah Sackman]

I think that the Prime Minister probably is a hard bastard, and I think that we on this side of the House are tough on law and order. We would never allow what the Conservative party allowed to happen, running our prisons to the brink of collapse. At the point when we inherited the prison system, there were simply not enough places for us to lock up some of the most serious and dangerous criminals who had perpetrated crimes in this country. It is absolutely scandalous. What we are going to do—as the hon. Gentleman has rightly pointed out—is engage in the serious business of developing policy and of government. We are going to consider the detailed policy recommendations, and of course we must consider how they interact with David Gauke’s recommendations: it must be knitted together, and it must be appropriate to deliver swifter justice for victims and to protect the public.

[Rupert Lowe (Great Yarmouth) (Ind)]

Jury trial has been deeply embedded in the British psyche and, indeed, in our constitution since Henry II, who introduced it in order to deal fairly with land disputes. It is also embedded in the United States constitution through the sixth amendment, to protect against biased judges and oppressive prosecutions and to safeguard individual liberties. I have severe doubts about our judiciary at the moment—I am not sure that it is going in the right direction—and when I read the “Adult Court Bench Book”, it gives me even greater concern. As the Minister probably knows, jury trial is already under threat in defamation cases. I have three questions. Why do the Government appear to be so terrified of decent British people sitting on juries? Are the Government intent on further undermining jury trial. If they are, in any way, will they please undertake to hold a full debate in the House before it happens?

[Sarah Sackman]

If the hon. Gentleman had heard my earlier answers, he would know that I made it clear that jury trial would remain a cornerstone of British justice in the most serious cases. In his review, Sir Brian Leveson considers whether a jury trial is appropriate and proportionate when it comes to, for example, some of the most complex fraud cases. He also considers whether it is proportionate when, say, someone has stolen a bottle of whisky. Is it appropriate to hold a full jury trial, with all the expense and delay involved, when it means that someone who is, perhaps, a victim of rape is waiting two or three years for their day in court, or, indeed, that that day will never come? However, as I said at the start, what I can undertake to do is this: when we are ready with our package of reforms and our response to the review, we will return to the House and a full debate can be had.

[Mr Richard Holden (Basildon and Billericay) (Con)]

The jury system is essential to protect us against oppressive judges, malicious individuals—sometimes malicious police officers—or even Governments. The Minister speaks of the most serious cases. Is it not a fact that the most serious impact on individuals may result not necessarily from what she may regard as the most serious cases, but from any case that goes to court? The impact on the individual can totally change the course of that person’s life, even if the charge is not as serious as the Minister might consider it to be. It can be devastating to the person’s family life, career, or any other aspect of his or her future.

[Sarah Sackman]

As the right hon. Gentleman knows, and as I said earlier, 90% of cases in this country already happen without a jury, and no one says that that is not delivering justice of the highest robustness and integrity. Let me pick up his comment, and indeed earlier comments, denigrating the integrity and independence of our judiciary. Members will not hear that sort of criticism from this side of the House. Our judiciary is, in fact, one of the prides of this country. It is why people so respect the rule of law, and why the United Kingdom is such a great place in which to do business. I will not talk the judiciary down. We need them and we respect them, and on this side of the House we will adhere to that.

[Richard Foord (Honiton and Sidmouth) (LD)]

The Justice Secretary talks about the need to expedite trials for the sake of victims of crime, and she is absolutely right. As she considers the proposals from Sir Brian Leveson, will she take into account those who are innocent and who stand wrongly accused, who are having to wait anxiously for years for their day in court?

[Sarah Sackman]

The hon. Gentleman makes a very good point. Our focus is on victims of crime, who in some cases are waiting years for their day in court, but on the other side of the coin, defendants who are accused of a crime—perhaps wrongly—are waiting to clear their name. That can have a devastating effect. What he describes is the human impact of the delays that have accrued as a result of the backlogs that we inherited from the Conservative party.

[Ayoub Khan (Birmingham Perry Barr) (Ind)]

As a barrister working in criminal courts, I have often addressed the jury in closing speeches by saying, “Members of the jury, we have the best legal system in the world, and it is the best because you make it so. You bring your wisdom, your life experiences and your common sense, and you apply it to the facts in this case. Before you decide a verdict of guilty, bear in mind that if you or a member of your family were sat in the defendant’s seat, you would need to be sure before you returned a verdict of guilty. As a peer, that is an obligation on you.” I get the Minister’s point that justice delayed is justice denied, but equally, there is the principle that justice must not only be done, but be seen to be done. Sir Brian Leveson has been given a basic mandate that we need to speed up jury trials, which will eliminate the fundamental principles and the cornerstone of our legal system. Does the Minister agree with that?

[Sarah Sackman]

As I have said, the jury trial will remain a cornerstone and pillar of our justice system in the most serious cases, but what Sir Brian Leveson tells us in the opening pages of his report is that the current system is broken, and he uses the word “essential”. He says reform of the system will be essential, because although we rightly take pride in the principles that underpin our criminal justice system, the fact is that it is simply not working at the moment. It is letting down those whom it is intended to serve and those who serve within the system, and we have to fix that. We will take our time, and then we will act on the programme of reforms that Sir Brian Leveson has recommended today.

[Jim Allister (North Antrim) (TUV)]

For over 50 years in Northern Ireland, we have had judge-only trials in terrorist cases, probably for understandable reasons. All non-terrorist cases have been jury trials. In my professional life at both the junior and the senior Bar, I have practised before all those courts, and my experience firmly confirms to me that public confidence is most attainable when we have jury trials. Irrespective of how cautious and diligent a judge is, they can get case-hardened, and that is the source of why public confidence rests most in the jury system. Does the Minister agree that the key determinant in retaining jury trial is whether an offence is indictable or not? If it is an indictable offence, the first port of call must be a jury trial.

--- Later in debate ---

[Sarah Sackman]

I respect the hon. and learned Gentleman’s wealth of experience before our different sorts of courts, but I also respect the wealth of experience that Sir Brian Leveson has brought to bear in his review. He identifies that although a jury trial will always be appropriate for certain cases—not least for the reasons that the hon. and learned Gentleman has outlined—we have to take a proportionate response. If we offered jury trials in all sorts of cases, certain victims and defendants would have to wait far too long for their day in court. As it stands, the vast majority—90%—of criminal trials in this country already happen without a jury. We have to consider very carefully where to draw the line, and that is what the Government will be doing this summer.

[Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)]

The Minister is held in the highest esteem by all of us in this Chamber—that is never in doubt. The British justice system is the envy of the world, and it probably set the example for justice systems everywhere. I pose my question with the utmost respect. The Minister will understand Members’ reluctance to restrict the right to a jury of one’s peers, and to replace a multi-person jury with a judge-only trial. Does she not believe that we must look at extending court days and at other interim measures, rather than changing the course of justice, which has served us well and which most democracies base their justice system on?

[Sarah Sackman]

The hon. Gentleman will know that the respect across this House is absolutely reciprocated. Rather than sitting idly, we have taken on the challenge of increasing investment to deliver a record number of Crown court sitting days—4,000 sitting days above the level agreed by the previous Government. We have increased investment in our criminal legal aid system to build capacity, so that we can man all the additional trials and meet the demands on the system. However, the clear lesson from Sir Brian’s report and the key conclusion that he has delivered today, which we will take firmly on board, is that continuing to try to sit our way out of the crisis is not sufficient. It is essential that we make reforms as well, and we will take the time necessary to consider what that looks like.

[Sorcha Eastwood (Lagan Valley) (Alliance)]

On a point of order, Madam Deputy Speaker. Ministers will be aware that I have raised concerns about the treatment and detention of Lee Stinton, a British national and the son of Elaine and Edward Stinton, who are my constituents in Lagan Valley. He was detained by US Immigration and Customs Enforcement while travelling to work in Key West, Florida. He has built a life for himself there, but that has all come to an end in the most awful of circumstances at Krome detention centre. I am grateful for the support offered to date by the Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office. Are Ministers seeking to make a statement on this matter?