Lords Chamber

Thursday 13th March 2025

(began 9 months, 3 weeks ago)

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11:06
None Portrait Oral questions: Implementing an updated public-private partnership model to attract capital investment and to open share ownership to more people Lord Brooke of Alverthorpe (Labour)
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First First Oral First Oral Question.
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None Portrait Oral questions: Reducing the number of underpayments of National Insurance spouse's pensions caused by “official error” by the Department of Work and Pensions Lord Davies of Brixton (Labour)
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The government is actively managing the legacy portfolio and we are learning lessons from it.
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None Portrait Oral questions: Ending of funding for the charity Tell MAMA
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Fourth Oral Question.
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None Portrait Oral questions: Ending of funding for the charity Tell MAMA Baroness Falkner of Margravine (Crossbench)
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I beg leave to ask the question standing in my name on the Order
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Lord Roborough Portrait Lord Roborough (Conservative)
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I thank the Minister for

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I thank the Minister for repeating his statement. I also thank the noble Baroness lady Heymann a folic for her replies to my question on this topic earlier my question on this topic earlier this week as it was reported. -- this week as it was reported. -- Haymann of Ullock. I'm sure noble Lords will agree with me that Lords will agree with me that sympathy goes to all of those who have been affected by this tragic incident and especially the family and loved ones of the sailor who has been lost at sea.

I also thank selfless emergency workers and volunteers who responded to the incident, including land-based emergency services and his majesties coastguard. I especially wish to mention the bravery of the crews of lifeboats who set of without hesitation into that vision of hell that we also reported. They are universally respected institution and in all of the commitments of the volunteers to saving lives at sea, often at great personal cost. The Minister in another place was able to confirm that the so long had broken free -- the element had broken free.

Can the Minister provide an update on both the components? With a statement was given another place, we did not have much detail about the events that took place in the lead up to the collision. I would be grateful if the Minister could set out in more detail the government understanding of how this collision occurred. I appreciate the captain, Russia national, has been arrested and part of this is subdued to say. Are of this is subdued to say. Are Even at this early stage of the investigation question are now turn to the environmental impact of this incident.

Reports of a jet fuel spill are very concerning. And the noble Lord the Minister confirm whether the government have established the car -- cargo of the ship and consequences for the environment which I could the Minister inform us whether there has been any leak or whether this has been avoided? Can the Minister inform us of the risk to marine and bird life? Local communities and fishermen being adequately informed of what they need to be aware of and can do to help? Finally come I would hope that the finally -- undoubtedly substantial costs will be covered by the insurers of the vessels.

the insurers of the vessels.
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Baroness Pidgeon Portrait Baroness Pidgeon (Liberal Democrat)
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My Lords, the scenes we have witnessed in news reports are deeply concerning and our thoughts are with all those affected, particularly the family of the crew members who do macro is presumed -- the crew member who is presumed lost. I thank emergency services, the Navy and all others who have worked tirelessly to manage this crisis. There swift response has been vital in minimising loss of life and limiting environmental damage and we owe them environmental damage and we owe them a great debt of gratitude.

This event is really a stark reminder of the immense risks faced by those in the maritime sector, men and women who work long, demanding hours to keep our country moving, often without recognition. And while investigations are ongoing, and the internet is awash with different theories, from technical faults to human error to worse, urgent action is required to ensure that local communities are informed and further impact is mitigated. My noble friend highlighted the consequences of the Shetland disaster in 1993.

There will be communities across the coastline hoping for reassurance that the incident can be contained. This incident also raises serious concerns about maritime safety, regulation and enforcement. Reports indicate that one of the vessels involved may have failed safety involved may have failed safety Emergency seeding communications, inadequate alarms, poorly maintained survival craft and improperly marked lifeboats. Given these alarming deficiencies, can the noble of the Minister confirm whether the government will review the effectiveness of poor enforcement procedures to prevent substandard vessels from continuing to operate in UK waters? And what is the timescale for any such review? And beyond safety concerns, the environmental impact of this disaster could be severe and I welcome there has been a formation of a tactical coordination group and it is engaging with key agencies but greater clarity is needed on how the government needs to address plans to address the environmental challenges arising from this.

What measures are being taken to protect the East Coast Marine life and furthermore, can the Minister provide assurances that financial support will be made available to cover both the economic and environmental losses, particularly for those whose livelihoods depend on these waters?
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Lord Hendy of Richmond Hill Portrait Lord Hendy of Richmond Hill, Minister of State (Department for Transport) (Labour)
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I thank the noble Lord and the noble Baroness for their responses, and in particular, both their accommodations of those involved. I Begin by offering my sincere thanks and I'm sure the thanks of Your Lordships' House to all who responded to this incident on the frontline, from his majesties coastguard, to the local emergency coastguard, to the local emergency services. This is a challenging and ever-changing situation and I hope that I speak for everyone in this house when I say the continuing efforts of -- and bravery are hugely appreciated.

Also want to thank our international partners for assistance to the United Kingdom and further support for the maritime community. Finally come I would like to thank civil servants from across government in several departments working across the response. Following the collision of the two vessels on the morning of 10 March, my department and the Maritime my department and the Maritime Coastguard Agency have responded. The situation is being assessed along with environmental assessments to ensure that risks are being mitigated and effectively address.

I should also say that there is currently no evidence to suggest that national security implications -- suggest national security implications. The current position is that both vessels now appear to is that both vessels now appear to be relatively stable and their condition is being assessed. There is no suggestion that any, apart from what has been widely shown on the media, there is any substantial pollution. The aviation fuel appears to have evaporated and I read this morning suggestions that the containers that fell off the vessels, they do not appear to be Appear to be the case.

Turning to the noble Lords questions, of course, we need a proper investigation to be able to assess how this occurred. The fact that one of the two ships was anchored suggests that one might be able to draw some conclusions but it would be wise to wait for Maritime Communications -- the maritime investigation board to conclude its investigations and my understanding is that one of the ships is US badged and the other is Portuguese. Maritime agencies have concluded Maritime agencies have concluded that the MAI be -- MAIB should take precedence.

The noble Lord referred to the arrest of one of the captain's. Will lessons be learned? Is, indeed. One of the aims is to ensure that lessons are learned. Some of them you might conclude immediately and some might take a great deal of research to work out what happened, why it happened and how to stop it happening again. I think the environmental impact currently is mercifully small, and I think we are very lucky for that. Does not appear to be any significant spillage apart from the significant spillage apart from the jet fuel.

-- Spillage of the jet fuel. The impact on marine and bird life does not appear to be significant. I want to confirm to this house, of course, everything is ready in case that subsequently from now on proves not to be the case. And there is a lot of activity, including activity across the nations to make sure that we are ready in case anything like that should happen. The German coastguard, for example has provided support of a specialist counter pollution vessel which can operate in toxic environments as well as surveillance aircraft and that has been tasked to stand by and undertake air monitoring at the undertake air monitoring at the

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No air quality measures have been reported and there is a low risk to reported and there is a low risk to public health. I think I can assure public health. I think I can assure the noble Lord and the noble Baroness that we seek to make sure that every possibility, both from that every possibility, both from the time of the accident, looking backwards and from now looking forwards, is being considered. Including keeping all the local communities in general and those who use the sea and care about marine and bird life fully informed, in order that they can have confidence in the actions of this government and the operations involved.

Of course we will, as would normally happen, the cost of all this would seek to be recovered from the insurers of the vessels found to be at fault. I hope I have covered all of the points that the noble Lord and the noble Baroness raised but if and the noble Baroness raised but if not they will come up in further questions.
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Lord Callanan Portrait Lord Callanan (Conservative)
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serial. -- Syria. Frankly, it serial. -- Syria. Frankly, it Soon enough because we have Soon enough because we have witnessed some of the worst violence since the beginning of this dreadful conflict. Reports that hundreds of civilians have been killed in civilians have been killed in clashes is, of course, deeply troubling. I'm sure we have all seen some of the horrific videos that have been circulated of that violence. The Syrian people have now suffered for 14 years of conflict and decades of oppression.

The situation will need to be monitored closely to avoid backsliding into further conflict on ethnic and religious lines. The government have decided to establish contact with the Syrian government and the interim administration. I wonder if the Minister can please confirm whether the Foreign Office has raised this escalation in violence with the interlocutors in the current Syrian government and if so, whether our government has conveyed our expectations for how the temperature should be taken down and stability restored? Are there visits to Damascus planned any time soon? The government have announced that their lifting 24 sanctions on entities linked to the deposed Assad regime.

Does this terrible violence in recent days change the government's assessments of the merits of lifting such sanctions? Before the government lifted them, did they consult US and European allies are partners in the region? Were the sanctions lifted at the request of HTS and are there plans to lift further sanctions? And the Minister also be clear about precisely what conditions criteria and evidence are being used to drive their various decisions? And on the important and vital subject of HTS's progress on countering drug- trafficking, does the Minister know if the harmful pharmaceutical drug is still in production or have HTS managed to prevent prevalence of it being produced in the country and being produced in the country and distributed to the wider region?
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Lord Purvis of Tweed Portrait Lord Purvis of Tweed (Liberal Democrat)
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I thank the government for the statement. We come obviously, have national security, regional interest and humanitarian interest and I wish to ask the Minister questions on all three of those areas. The first is a national security. It's great that Lord Hanson is here from the Home Office. It's worth noting that there seems to be positive news with regards to the internal security within Syria with Kurdish groups but it is not clear what the consequences would be. Part of the U.K.'s interest has been working with our American allies to ensure that those detained are not presenting any future threat to the United Kingdom.

What reassurance have we received from the US administration that troops will still be in place and what contingency arrangements will the UK have four or national security if the Americans were to back out which can I also ask the Minister with regards to the lifting of the sanctions, is there a public statement with regard to our assessment with regards to the groups that formed the functioning, the de facto government of Syria that we had previously considered to be terrorist organisations quarter how will we ensure that the lifting of economic sanctions will not result in profiteering by those considered to be terrorist groups? What mechanisms will be in place to ensure, as a child for previously, that we support local civil society groups who are supporting the local communities, rather than channelling through what had been very recently in many respects still are terrorist organisations that will be deciding economic support for their own individual groups rather than the people of Syria? We must stop the recruitment of terrorist organisations within the country.

What support are we providing for transitional Justice mechanisms as a response to the crimes of the Assad regime? Are we supporting UN transitional assistance? It is welcome that the UK will be participating in the pledging meeting that the Minister referred to. It is worth noting that UK support had been at scale when it came to the Syrian crisis. As recently as 2019 to 2020, the UK committed £380 million. This year, it is £103 million. And according to HMG's tracker website, that is likely to go down to £55 million in likely to go down to £55 million in 2025.

Are we simply going to be reasserting or committing funds as part of the £103 million. In terms of regional interest, the territorial integrity of Syria is of significance to the UK. What reassurances have we received from Israeli and Turkish governments that they believe the territorial integrity of Syria? Are we supporting the construction of Lebanon? I would be grateful if the Minister would consider perhaps meeting with me and a number of Lebanese MPs who are in contact with me, especially female MPs, who are seeking ways of reconstructing Lebanon, especially when it comes to the border areas of Lebanon that does avoid enhancing confessional divisions.

We have the opportunity to look at Syrian and Lebanese reconstruction. I hope she doesn't mind me raising an issue of concern I had last week when I asked questions when it came to the commitment of order for those countries that are vulnerable to potential areas that would put the UK -- that put UK interests at UK -- that put UK interests at heart. There are countries such as Lebanon were UK support would be reducing dramatically as a result of the government's decision.

The Minister responded to me that I was saying complete nonsense and my supposition was frankly ridiculous. I looked at the support for Lebanon in 2019 to 2020, that was... Next year, it will be zero. When I asked questions to minister in this house using government information, I hope the ministers will respond in a temperate manner. When it comes to humanitarian support, finally, I welcome the stated position of the government that seeks an inclusive, nonsectarian and representative government.

I welcome that very strongly. But I know that the Minister will recognise that this is some way away. So, finally, can I ask with regards to the support that we are providing to the Syrian people for education, can we find ways of benchmarking UK engagement, diplomatic and for education and humanitarian assistance, that education reform can include independent oversight of curricular reform, removal of content inciting hatred and violence, and fair representation of women and minorities? The opportunity exists that our support could be linked with development, with assistance that can benefit all parts of Syrian society and move away from hatred and violence, which has afflicted the country so badly in recent
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Baroness Chapman of Darlington Portrait Baroness Chapman of Darlington, Parliamentary Under-Secretary (Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office) (Labour)
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I'm grateful to both noble lords for their words. I think we can all agree the situation in Syria is fragile to say the least. What we all want is a stable, elected government to be in charge in Syria. We are some way from that at the moment. Everything this government is doing is aimed at bringing this situation that we all want to see about. The noble Lord asked why this is our first statement on Syria.

I kindly and gently point out that clearly there are mechanisms within the procedures of the House for him to raise whichever issues he wishes. I would be happy to arrange some training for him should that be welcome. There is clearly deep concern about the events of recent days. We are working closely with our allies and partners in the region and beyond. We have spoken as noble lords asked me about with the interim government in Syria. We have as the noble Lord encouraged us to do, raised concerns about these events and tried to bring about peace and stability which we all wish to see.

On the question of ministerial travel, forgive me but I On this today and there are obvious reasons why we do not always announce ministerial travel ahead of time. On sanctions of course we keep sanctions designations under review. The decisions that we made after the fall of the Assad regime were to remove the designation from some entities such as the central bank. This is because we want to enable the reconstruction and the economic development of Syria. Because it has been so badly harmed for reasons been so badly harmed for reasons that we all know.

It is important that the new regime in Syria and the government which hopefully follows will be able to invest in the country, grow and prosper in the future. So we took that decision. But clearly we keep these things under review. On the issue of chemical weapons, we are working with OPC W on that. We are very concerned that chemicals do not fall into the hands of people that none of us would wish them to. So we are working with others on that. On comments from the Liberal Democrat spokesperson, I do agree that we welcome the statement from the PKK about downing weapons.

As I said this situation remains incredibly this situation remains incredibly fragile. On the issue of troops, it is I think for a future Syrian government to determine which nations and in what capacity and where they may have a presence in Syria. Since December, we have spent over £62 million in additional humanitarian as and. That will include as well support for justice measures. -- Humanitarian aid. So that it can be maintained for use in future proceedings.

He is right to make a point about national security. I do not think I have ever been intemperate in this chamber. Ever. But I am entitled to call nonsense nonsense when I hear it. That is not intemperate. That is in the spirit of a frank exchange. Which I think we all wish to engage in. The noble Lord I felt in his question last week was asserting that we were not putting national security front and centre in our decision-making. I was pointing out to him that our decision to reduce the overseas aid budget was done to support our defence budget.

Which I would argue is in the interest of national security. If he found that intemperate, I'm glad he was never in the other place. He would have had a very difficult time. This is a critical, fragile moment for Syria. The country faces significant challenges as it transitions after almost 14 years of conflict. Stability in Syria is firmly in our interests. The UK remains committed to the people of Syria. We will continue to stand with them in building a more stable, free and prosperous future.
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Lord Howell of Guildford Portrait Lord Howell of Guildford (Conservative)
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I'm grateful in advance for all those who have come to participate in this debate and I am especially looking forward to the maiden speech which will follow immediately, and we will all listen to it with the greatest interest. He has great wisdom and experience. We are in an extremely dangerous moment in history. The issue is not survival -- the issue is one of survival. Our closest allies are telling us we are on the edge.

One of the bestselling on the edge. One of the bestselling books in America has been The Coming Anarchy published more than one decade ago. Some would say this anarchy in international affairs has already arrived very promptly. It is a new world in which we have to make our way and protect ourselves more strongly than ever, contribute to others, set examples, preserved values. We can forget about it all being in faraway countries upon which -- about which we know which -- about which we know The patronising concept of North and South or dividing the world between them and us.

This is not the right approach in this age. How can we make sense, how can that idea makes sense at all in the long-term when scores of countries are aspiring to liberal values and not wanting to go back to the early 20th century. They call themselves the neo-non-aligned. The danger to Ukraine is a danger to them. What is happening is not just a European division. What they want in this digital age is independence, freedom from ideological boxes or spheres of influence.

As the former UN secretary general said, he said everyone needs a country to love. That is one message to guide us through the labyrinth in the digital age in direct contrast to all the talk from the past are -- Eire of blocks to align to -- past era. We must forget the patronising talks about pivots to the Pacific or pivot to Asia as if we are doing them a favour. That is something of the past when the West thought they were the masters of the world.

Forget about the historic confrontation between capitalism and socialism. Even Russia and China have their own twisted version of capitalism, even if they don't call it. That debate is over as well. Another one has begun on how to make liberal market capitalism far more stable, for fairer and much more widely shared and escape its massive unpopularity, especially among the young. Capitalism for us to be not a defeat but a victory. I believe we can compare this age with the printing press revolution of the 14th century, with the enlightenment, with the Industrial Revolution, although coming far faster and affecting more of the world's people on a far bigger scale than ever before.

Among other things, this has changed the nature of international influence and pressure. It goes along with hard military power and smart power, but we call it soft In March 2014, it certainly seemed to have an impact on the to have an impact on the Commonwealth office. We are also in consequence of a policy blindness, still suffering from the gross underestimation of the importance to us of the Commonwealth network, the largest soft power greenhouse of them all.

This becomes the ultimate kind of association of both peoples, professions, institutes and professions, institutes and governments and a commonwealth of nations with a culture embedded in it which is sustained and nourish. In both past and present governments, there has been distinct and welcome progress in a repositioning journey with joining repositioning journey with joining the organisations, like the comprehensive and progressive partnership for example. Although, the cost of that was our European policy with our neighbour being got very drunk.

Explain sense that we should stay in the best possible relations with our continental neighbours, all of them. I know this neighbours, all of them. I know this government is trying to do that. The previous government did not have great success. The European Political Community could prove a gateway to a thousand constructive outcomes without getting too bogged down in Brussels procedures. In order to make all these new relationships and alliances were, trust and mutual respect are necessary with a strong, agreed set of rules and commitments.

That is just what has gone missing. It's as if the new strongman of the globe all want different rules and methods, their own and the least possible restraint on the actions. In fact, Americas constitutional checks have gone on holiday as the country has fallen into a trade war. country has fallen into a trade war. Can we protect ourselves? With all this lack of trust and respect swirling around and pulling the world we knew falling apart.

Does America have all the power in the Ukraine situation, as their American -- as the president seems to think. The Trump hallmark is grabbing And -- Greenland and Mexico.Not to say bad manners as well. In a technology dominated world -- in a technology dominated world -- in a technology The list of issues which have made The list of issues which have made America poor is the long game. Great nationhood arises from serving the world, rather than overwriting it or threatening it.

We shall see how Mr Putin response to Trump's latest threat of ruining Russia. Judging by his past performance, I don't think he will accept it. Maybe he will go forward. To make America great again,... He is going in the again,... He is going in the opposite direction. We do have a role to replace the turbulence from the one we alleged to have lost in the one we alleged to have lost in the last century.

We can put pioneer social capitalist reform which is the underpinning of stable democracy. We can help rebuild the world institutions of the last century. The UN very much must Issues such as worldwide energy transition. We can keep a dense network, the densest ever in the hyper- connected age. With every new link, new tyre, new nation, especially after the Commonwealth, fellow members, always been ready to assist, guide and support. We cannot respond to pressure all over the world by clear democratic performance here, and having a strong parliamentary democracy at work.

We can design our defences and employ the health technology for safeguarding the civilian order. We can boost enormously our reserves and the linkages between the military and civilian work. In the military and civilian work. In the 1930s, my Lords, we kept our reserves at around 200,000. Not before the war began. It is now 37,000. The expansion must begin. My Lords, crisis is opportunity. We are in a very advantageous decision to make the best of the present upheavals with our global links and friends in this experience, providing we build on the assets bequeathed to us.

If we are smart and creative, there never was such a new door and a clear horizon. And never such an open sea for a nation

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such as ours. I beg to move. The question is that this motion be agreed to. be agreed to.

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My Lords, it is with great humility and a profound sense of responsibility that I rise to address this House for the first address this House for the first time. I am deeply grateful for the time. I am deeply grateful for the privilege of joining your Lordships and extend my sincere thanks to those who have supported me on this those who have supported me on this journey. In particular, thank the Leader of the House and the Chief
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Lord Pitkeathley of Camden Town Portrait Lord Pitkeathley of Camden Town (Labour)
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Whip, also one of my sponsors for their warm welcome. I also thank my other sponsor, my noble kins, Aaron other sponsor, my noble kins, Aaron S McKeith Lee, who, in her wisdom, decided the laws was such a good decided the laws was such a good idea that she sent for idea that she sent for And to the kindness and patience And to the kindness and patience of the goalkeepers, officials and staff who have made these first steps so much less daunting.

The subject of today's debate, the United Kingdom's global position, challenges us not only to assess where we stand, but to consider how we move forward. We do so at a time of great uncertainty. As the noble Lord Howell has set out for us. In our history shows our ability to thrive depends on creativity, adaptability, and leadership. To maintain our standing, we must embrace the steps now, more than ever. Entrepreneurship has been a lifelong It was unconventional. I started in music, writing, recording and playing in bands, including in Camden, chasing that elusive Big Breakfast like many in the arts, I quickly learned that dreams alone are not enough.

Resilience, reinvention and the willingness to take risks and sometimes embarrassment itself, just as important. That spirit carried me through my career for introducing banking services, while at the British Bankers Association, to sourcing helicopters for the Prime Minister during the 2001 and 2005 general elections, and to manufacturing table tennis tables in China. In many ways, music and business share the same DNA. Good ideas, hard work, and not a little luck. And always a team. That belief Proudest achievements, in Camden. This led to a pressing problem, too many entrepreneurs, particularly those without university networks, couldn't afford the space to develop their ideas.

Drawing on my own experience with dyslexia, we turn the challenge into an opportunity. Transformative -- Transforming high-street spaces and free workspaces. More than just pop-up offices and shops, but a community of dreamers and doers. First rule, don't be an cars, isn't just a joke. It sets a cultural tone where collaboration trumps ego. That ethos has helped hundreds of businesses take steps, and I believe, that can help the future of ownership in the UK. Another Camden project is the Camden Highline, proposed new park in the sky, running around King's Cross, and an unused viaduct.

Inspired by new locks -- New York's high line, it is embodying the bold and imaginative thinking that I think and redefine urban spaces and strengthen an international reputation, our international reputation, as a hub of creativity. Technology, particularly AI is transforming innovation. The UK has world-class AI research and a thriving start-up ecosystem. But our productivity gap remains a challenge. While we advance, many businesses struggle to adopt new technologies, limiting our competitiveness. I see both sides of this divide.

Start-ups I work with already leverage AI, while many traditional businesses, such as those in the business improvement districts I run, face hurdles in adoption. AI's benefits must be widely shared. The government AI growth zones are a strong start. But hubs must also be placed in urban centres, and innovation clusters like King's Cross, where research institutions and tech firms can accelerate progress. AI can transform public services, as we have heard alluded to today. Standardising AI driven process across government would boost efficiency and service delivery.

efficiency and service delivery. Leader. It offers a chance to reinforce a global position. While some, particularly in the EU, take a more restrictive approach, the EU can lead with a pragmatic pro innovation path. As a songwriter, even at my modest level, I understand creative concerns, I really do. But if handled well, this could be a rare Brexit silver lining. As I take my place in this lining. As I take my place in this House, I hope to bring a spirit of creativity, adaptability, to my work here.

The UK's global standing will not be secured by nostalgia for past glories. But by shaping the future. By embracing innovation, supporting entrepreneurship, and ensuring opportunities shared across society. We will not only strengthen our economy will reaffirm the values that have long made Britain a leader of the world stage. My Lords, I look forward to playing my part in that effort. Thank you. effort. Thank you.

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My Lords, it gives me great joy

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My Lords, it gives me great joy to follow the noble Lord, on the occasion of his maiden speech, and to have the privilege of formally welcoming into the chamber. He and I welcoming into the chamber. He and I have known each other for some 30 years. And our paths cross because of our shared passions for policy, the creative industry, and the arts.
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Lord Vaizey of Didcot Portrait Lord Vaizey of Didcot (Conservative)
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the creative industry, and the arts. He has had a much more successful career than I have, actually getting its hands dirty, working in his community, and genuinely shaping the lives of so many people encountered and beyond, coming up with creative thinking. It is a testament to our friendship that he called to me the other day, that I once bumped into him and lamented to him, why do I have so many lefty friends? Which won't surprise my friends on these won't surprise my friends on these benches.

And it is a joy to have him join us in the House of Lords. It would be churlish for me and against the spirit of welcoming him, to point out he is a nepotism peer, his wonderful mother sits at the chamber with us today, it would also be grotesquely hypocritical because I am also a nepotism peer, having followed my own late father, who was a life peer into the House of Lords. At our just make that point that I know what a wonderfully additional heartwarming moment it is to come into a chamber that would have formed part of his life already, even before he formally joined us and I look forward to debating with him for many years to come, about the importance of the creative industries.

And I also welcome his speech because of his focus on the future, on innovation, on the strengths Britain has, today, here and now, in the 21st-century. Rather than looking back, necessarily, and past glories. A friend of mine, academic James Crabtree, who specialises in Southeast Asia, sent me a dip tell this week on WhatsApp, from a recording of a meeting between Senator Barry Goldwater and the Prime Minister on Singapore, in which it was remarked that the British might have lost their muscle, but they are able to think.

It was an echo, indeed, of the mark that the noble Lord, Lord Howell, made in his speech, about having lost an empire but looking to find a role. And it was Lord Howell's brilliant speech opening this debate, and one always says a speech is brilliant, when it entirely reflects one's own worldview. And everything the noble Lord said about how Britain moves forward in what he quite rightly identified as one of the most dangerous periods, certainly in living memory, for me, is absolutely right.

We must play to our strengths and not look back on past glories. We are a strange country, where we have, in some ways, a fit of self-confidence and in other ways, chronic lack of confidence. But I, what makes Britain great is not our past, but Britain great is not our past, but what we have today, the common law, the leadership in artificial intelligence, which the noble Lord referred to. Our universities, our research-based, our Armed Forces. The Premier League.

The kind of thing that people around the world look to Britain. The noble Lord, Lord Howell's, remarked that everybody needs someone to love should perhaps be framed and put in at the Foreign Office, because that is Britain's opportunity. This week, as chairman of the UK that a SEAN, I was able to preside over our annual business Summit, and I welcome the Malaysia Minister for Investment of trade and industry, and the Malaysia delegation, because Malaysia is Chair of ASDA in addition.

-- ASEAM. About half a million Malaysians have benefited in some shape or form from British education, given the publishers about 32-34 million, that may be excessive, but the point is made, and the Minister says, why are only 0.6% of our imports from Britain? The fact is, and I hope I am not getting over my skis when I say this, there are many countries that love Britain. When you're in the Middle East or Southeast Asia, you can constantly meet people who say how highly they hold the United Kingdom in regard, and how they all must regard it as a second home.

That is our strength. And we can, I think, in this moment of crisis, wake up and realise that we are not the 51st state. We have influence across the globe, and we should maximise that influence. So let me also, in my final remarks, Plater my strength in terms of my passion for culture and talk about Britain's soft power. You can exaggerate soft power. I teased Neil MacGregor, from the British Museum, a man I hold in the highest regard, when we talked about soft powerful soppy once lengthy is -- Soft powerful he once led the Iranians it, and when he lent it to them, six Navy sailors, he claimed breached territorial waters, but the point was made, relented and we got it back.

I've already talked about the importance of the British Council in this chamber in the last few weeks, I have talked as well, many times about the World Service, soft power will not get us everything we want to achieve, but it is a wonderful front door to engage so many different countries in dialogue, countries that do respect the United Kingdom, and dare I say it, some of

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whom do love us. I am grateful to Lord Howell for giving us the opportunity to debate this important issue at a crucial time, and welcome the Lord's maiden speech and look forward to hearing speech and look forward to hearing
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Lord Bruce of Bennachie Portrait Lord Bruce of Bennachie (Liberal Democrat)
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speech and look forward to hearing more from me in the future. -- From him in the future. My Lords, we have a history and a footbridge around the globe, even though our reach and capacity have diminished. Aloe global position has been defined by our interconnection with America, Europe, and the Commonwealth. But whatever was special about our relationship with the United States, that is now over. Trust is broken. That does not mean we should cease to have a relationship with America, but from now on, it will be on different terms and that is irreversible.

I have always taken the view that the UK's most important ties by force of geography, history, and culture, is with our neighbours across a narrow stretch of water, as opposed to a vast ocean. During our 47 year membership of what is the EU, the UK carved out a unique semi-detached position. We threw that away with Brexit. And now run the risk of being isolated both from the USA, and the EU. And by leaving the EU, we weaken both ourselves, and we I commend the Prime Minister for his efforts to coordinate with European partners and maintain relations with the White House, and they have been widely praised.

I understand when he says he is not seeking to choose between Europe and Washington. However, what he must avoid is allowing President Trump to dictate, and anyway, how we reset our relationships with the EU and Europe. Either on trade or on defence and security. Historically, the UK has reached around the globe but we have sadly neglected that in recent decades. It surely time to revitalise our relationship with the Commonwealth. The savage cutting age compromises that but we must look to commit more on promoting trade, investment, diplomacy and culture, 'soft power', to show we value our membership.

I recently spoke with a member of the government at one of the smaller Commonwealth countries and asked what benefit they perceived in King and Commonwealth. I was told, it was a matter of complete indifference as it made no impact. That is a travesty and should surely change. And there is as Lord Vaizey said, a legacy of goodwill towards the UK, in many parts of the Commonwealth and around the world, which we failed to reciprocate adequately. I note the King met Justin Trudeau in London recently and has been seen in public wearing Canadian uniform and insignia.

King Charles is king of Canada and I have seen suggestions in the Canadian media that is their king, he should publicly support Canadian sovereignty and independence. Is there any protocol to prevent him from doing that, indeed surely Canadian ministers can advise him to do so. No relation was perfect. The UK has friends we have undervalued and now appears others we have overvalued. Our global position should be faced the ships we could trust. The UK can afford, cannot afford to be dogmatic about negotiating closer links with the EU.

We need to build our own defence capacity and reset our relationship. The UK knows what it is like to have continental Europe occupied by dark powers. But was the case when I was born and for more than half my life. -- That was the case. Our destiny requires a vision to create the means to prevent that happening again.

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My Lords, it's customary to congratulate the hold of the debate like this one and I do so with all the more enthusiasm on this occasion since that person is noble Lord Lord Howell who was instrumental in setting up your Lordships International Relations and Defence Committee and was its first chair. I would also like to congratulate the would also like to congratulate the noble Lord Lord Keatley on his thought-provoking maiden speech. As the timing of the debate that is
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Lord Hannay of Chiswick Portrait Lord Hannay of Chiswick (Crossbench)
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the timing of the debate that is pretty good. With the publication of the noble Lord Lord Robertson's global strategy review only a few weeks away, that report and this debate are together linking riddance hard and soft power, which must always be considered together if we are to get a full picture. The first thing to be said is that the word global in the title of today's debate has nothing whatsoever to do with that silly slogan of global, greened out by Foreign Secretary Johnson, to characterise post-Brexit Britain.

Britain's global role has existed since the 16th century and had nothing whatsoever to do with whether we were inside the EU or outside it. Even though we had a lot of pretty tempestuous relationships with the other countries of Europe along the road. Not at have much to do with that other thing, the Indo- Pacific tilt, which overlooked if you tilt toward something, you necessarily tilt away from something else. In this case, Europe. President Putin's aggression against Ukraine has upended that tilt, comprehensively.

The decision at the end of last month to substantially increase spending deserves full support. The decision to finance that exclusively by a massive cut in our overseas aid budget which had already been plundered to pay for Ukrainian refugees in this country, is I would suggest going to conflict great damage on our 'soft power' and influence around the world. The least the government should now do is to commit itself to increasing the 0.3% of GNI as soon as growth picks up. One of the biggest challenges we face around the world is the damage being inflicted by the Trump administration's withdrawal from multilateral organisations and programs, from the world health organisation, from the panna's climate accord, from the council human rights, and from -- and there there could be more to come.

These are serious, these discussions will weaken Western influence, whether or not they are replaced by Chinese involvement. And they will impact on some of the poorest people in the world. We will need to do what we can to sustain and strengthen these multilateral organisations. Moving ahead if necessary, without the US, in a period natural framework with other like-minded countries, for example at the World Trade Organisation, for the proposed pandemic convention, and at the UN. I would like the noble Lord the Minister to say whether that is indeed the government policy.

In all this we will need to keep in sharp focus and to work in close cooperation without European powers, with the Prime Minister's aim of a security and defence pact at its heart. It is the proposed timetable for moving ahead with that and how does it relate to the handling of the fighting in Ukraine? To conclude, in all this, we will need international powers. Britain is no longer a great power, as it thought it was, perhaps a little bit too long.

But we are a significant middle ranking power, so we need representation around the world and that will need to take into account in this summer's spending review avoiding such pretty useless substitutes as regional representation. And we must nurture our main instruments of soft power, the BBC World Service, which should be financed by the taxpayer and not the licence holder, and the British Council. In all this, we should show awareness of how others see ask, and awareness of how others see ask, and

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not just as how we see ourselves. I would like to congratulate my noble friend Lord Howell on securing this debate. Although I fear I cannot quite share his degree of optimism. And I do congratulate the optimism. And I do congratulate the noble Lord Lord Pitkeathley on the most accomplished maiden speech, and
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Lord Howard of Lympne Portrait Lord Howard of Lympne (Conservative)
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we look forward to hearing any more. It's of course a privilege to follow the noble Lord who has just spoken to brings his considerable expertise to bear on our discussion of these issues. My Lords, the global position of the United Kingdom has changed beyond all recognition in the last few weeks. That's because the world has changed beyond all recognition in the last few weeks. We are at a turning point, comparable to the fall of the Berlin Wall in 1980.

But this turning point is not, alas, one for the better. It is making the world a more dangerous place than it has been since 1980, or perhaps even longer than that. The great certainty that has dominated all global strategy since 1945 has been that the United States has been the leader of the free world. It has seen its role as the guarantor of a rules-based world order which it helps to devise. It has of course made mistakes, not all its interventions have had an official results.

But on the whole, both it and the world have benefited enormously. Millions more people now live under freedom, and many more millions no longer have to suffer millions no longer have to suffer the grinding misery of poverty. Of course, the United States has not been the sole author of these benefits. But without its leadership, it is very doubtful whether this progress could have occurred. This great certainty has gone. It grieves me to say what I'm about to say.

I lived in America for a year as a young man. Both my children are married to Americans. All my grandchildren are dual citizens of the United Kingdom and the United States. But the last few weeks have made it clear the US is no longer a reliable ally of this country. It is not the act of an ally to impose tariffs on friendly countries. It is not the act of an ally to threaten to take part of another countries territory, Greenland, by force.

It is not the act of an ally to vote with Russia, North Korea and Iran, in the United Nations, against a nation that recognises that Russia invaded Ukraine. It is not the act of a freedom loving country to withdraw intelligence and military assistance from a democratic country which has been invaded by Thailand. And it's foolish to attend we can plan the country which is led by a man who dresses in his unreliability, who revels in his unreliability, who uses unreliability as a weapon of choice.

The Prime Minister has spoken of himself as a bridge, and his efforts have been commendable. But average needs firm foundations at both ends, and those firm foundations no longer exist, on the other side of the Atlantic. So what's to be done? It's clear that we in common with other countries not only European countries, must spend more on defence. It's true that we have been freeloading on the United States for far too long. But I'm afraid this new need for increased defence spending must have as its objective not merely the need to convince the United States that we are paying our fair share for the costs of NATO, it must have as its objective the ability to defend ourselves and play our part in the defence of Europe without the United States.

The changed attitude of the United States is to be in order so it can devote itself to the challenges it faces in the Pacific and in particular from China. But it's democratic allies in the Pacific have hardly been reassured. South Korea is reportedly considering the acquisition of nuclear-weapons since it no longer considers the United States a reliable ally. Japan is palpable and what confidence can anybody have for the future of Taiwan? But we are the rest of the world, we will be poorer, that's an inevitable consequence of a damaging trade war consequence of a damaging trade war and the extra spending on defence which is now essential will have to be at the expense of other aspects of government spending to which we have become custom.

The UK global position has changed in the last few weeks. It has changed for the worse. We are weaker and we may become poorer. But we can, we must, also become more self-reliant, and in doing so we can yet provide a degree of leadership to like-minded countries who do not see international relations as a series of transactions, but recognise that we share a system of values which is worth cherishing, sustaining, and defending. That, my Lords, would be an honourable road to which we can and should aspire.



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Milos, I join in congratulating
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Lord Waldegrave of North Hill Portrait Lord Waldegrave of North Hill (Conservative)
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Milos, I join in congratulating my noble friend, on this occasion as in many others in his long career he has shown himself to be one of Parliament's thought leaders and I Parliament's thought leaders and I congratulate the noble Lord Lord Pitkeathley on this pleasant family occasion. I hope the House will forgive me if I offer one anecdote from my own experience as Minister of State in the Foreign Office. When I was the first British minister to return to Aden 1990 after a rather disgraceful scuttle from that place in 19 67, leaving our local allies in the lurch, I was given in my briefing a saying from the area of that time of final British retreat, it was it's always better to be the enemy of the British than their friend.

If you are the enemy is the possibility of being born, if you are the friend there is the certainty of being sold. -- Possibility of being bought. But as the weight goes with retreating empires. It is something different of the United States are now learning or have learned from the end of the Vietnam war onwards, once a nation, still immensely powerful they may be, for Butterworth, it decides that it had enough of overseas adventures, it allies had better watch out. Taiwan should now watch out, Israel should watch out.

Europe and Japan and South Korea must watch out. As Robert tombs wrote eloquently in the Daily Telegraph on Tuesday, there have been plenty of warning signs between Europe have ignored. Trumpism expresses the turning point in a style which have shocked viewers presidents but have expressed something irrevocable which was a long time in the making has now been done. America is going home. The structure is supported and which its friends took for granted can no longer be relied upon.

Trust has been broken. Trump will not last forever. He will not be exempt from Enoch Powell's law that all political careers end in failure. But his successors will not be able to recreate the status quo, even if they wanted to and it seems unlikely they would want to. Now we in Britain has to find those who are most closely shared the real interests as ourselves, and build alliances on these shared interests, first and foremost those who share our interest are our neighbours in Europe, all under threat from Mr Putin.

After our last big in venture in imperialism -- adventure, we in and France to different conclusions. We decided to stick to the US, albeit as a junior part. France went with Europe. Now we will have no choice than to become a little bit Doing what we can to keep relations with US as good as they possibly can, we have to get back in with our neighbours. Trying to rejoin the EU, that buzz has departed. We all must must make the best possible technological industrial lands as we can elsewhere, notably with Japan, Turkey, South Korea, and if possible, India, as well as Canada, New Zealand and Australia.

As my noble friend has so eloquently put it. My final point is my most important. To make ourselves safe, we have to make ourselves richer. The position ultimately depends on our wealth. We have a lamentable debt situation, including, as pointed out, in decline of our net sees assets. We have to change our economy, we have not yet begun to realise that state of change required if we are to defend ourselves. It is not 2.5 or 2.6%, it will be much more, it will mean very profound changes in our society.

We have a sort of consensus of defence among parties, but do we have cohesion to accept the burdens we are going to carry, can we find the people to volunteer about the radically reformed and services we need, do we have the industrial muscle still, to rebuild our defence industries? We are going to be a new national unity if we are to succeed, success cannot be taken for granted. But perhaps, my Lords, this ancient house, has just a little distance, as it should be, from little infighting, might be one place where building of our new national

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consensus might begin. Welcome, low pick. I thank Lord

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Welcome, low pick. I thank Lord Howell. And I think -- Lord. I think Howell. And I think -- Lord. I think at this crisis, we need to hope for the best, prepare for the worst, and learn from the past. I hope that learn from the past. I hope that Putin buys the ceasefire compromise. Putin buys the ceasefire compromise. I hope it comes to accept Ukraine as the legitimate sovereign state it is. But we need to prepare for a future in which his appetite for territorial gain has only been
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Lord Kerr of Kinlochard Portrait Lord Kerr of Kinlochard (Crossbench)
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wetted. The analogy I think is 1938, they came back for the other two thirds. I think we need to contemplate a future in which America, perhaps in the hope of America, perhaps in the hope of pulling apart the Asian, Moscow pulling apart the Asian, Moscow relationship, finds itself closer to the autocrat in the Kremlin that the Democrats in Western Europe. Last month, they told us the real friend month, they told us the real friend for Europe wasn't Russia, but was the enemy within, our corrosive liberalism.

Elon Musk says that America should quit NATO, and America has left planning for some NATO exercises. So far, Trump has only said that America will not defend NATO's free riders. And for America to follow Elon Musk's advice, would be remarkably exotic Is right to prevent the free riders, but it is America that drives the bus. NATO supreme Commander's have always been serving US offices, reporting to the commander-in-chief. And Congress only accepted the treaty when that was spelt out to them. The alliance has been from the start, a very effective means of rejecting US power.

Too effective for their taste. The American military, the American arms industry, would be horrified if Musk got his way. And we should work to see he does not. Work to strengthen Europe's contribution and alliances, as Peter Carrington and Helmut Schmidt did, with their Euro group and European defence improvement program. When Congress first got stroppy about the free rider problem. But we also need to prepare for the worst, as the laws have been saying. European security is our security. We need a new structure we should be defining now.

Not in a way which might precipitate the very eventuality of the consensus, so were not too much of the performative strategic autonomy talk we have heard from Paris. The best analogy may be 1948. And Ernest Nevin's W EU treaty. What would Devin do now? Three guesses. First, obviously rearm. Obviously, 2.5% of GDP will not be nearly enough. In the 70s, we were at 5.5%. Second, demonstrate commitment. In the 70s, we were still honouring the W EU commitment to keep 55,000 troops based in continental Europe.

The Baltic states must feel now, rather than as the West Germans did then, as they were very glad to have Armed Forces on the ground. Third, we need to strike a security deal with the EU. In May. With the continuing cold wind from the east and new blustery winds from the rest. -- West. We Europeans need to huddle together.

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May I remind noble Lords there is a time limit and we have to finish by three: 19. Gently reminding noble Lords that your time is four minutes.

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My Lords, may I firstly thank my noble friend, Lord Howell, for this noble friend, Lord Howell, for this timely debate and his wide-ranging and insightful introduction. I also and insightful introduction. I also welcome the noble Lord, Baron Pitkeathley, to his place and look forward to his future contributions forward to his future contributions as well. With offence moving up the pace of AR, the related dynamics of established alliances and partnerships being severely tested,
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Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon Portrait Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Conservative)
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the United Kingdom's position in the world remains both crucial and pivotal. Therefore, I found myself pivotal. Therefore, I found myself really winning on -- Willing on the really winning on -- Willing on the Prime Minister when he met priming a Prime Minister when he met priming a trip. -- When he met President Trump. I am sure, Lord Howell relate to this. Imagine a Liverpool fan, to this. Imagine a Liverpool fan, cheering on an Arsenal one, particularly with current events. But this shows the importance of But this shows the importance of leadership.

To me, we see our place in the world, through key pillars. In terms of our positioning of the strength it gives to the global stage. In foreign defence and development policy for subdomains by absolute firm belief that with vision, leadership, investment in relationships, leveraging experience, and the conviction to exercise strength and independence when it matters we have an extremely important role to play. As an economic power within the G7, the G 20, as a strategic dialogue partner, I agree with my noble friend, we have a dialogue partner with SEN since 21.

Our trade stands at 46 billion. The TC CCP which was agreed in 2023, it provides opportunities in this changing world and I look forward to the Minister's update in this respect. The second pillar, our role as a defence power, within key multilateral organisations. Our status as a P5 member of the UN Security Council, a central role in the Commonwealth nations, yet sadly, the role of the UN has become marginalised and diminished. At times watching from the sidelines, the recent General assembly vote on Ukraine showed, for the first time, countries such as US and Israel voting with Russia, not with the UK.

It showed that post-Second World War norms no longer hold. And I would welcome again the government's perspective on this. As a development power, may I welcome, officially, the noble Lady to her new position as development minister and it also strengthens the voice I feel of the laws surrounding the Cabinet table. Over many years, the UK has led on a broad spectrum of relief and development initiatives and the current changes in budgets, which I fully understand, does pose the question what does it mean for our initiatives? And I welcome the noble Lady's perspectives, particularly in areas I led on such as PSVI full benefited in areas such as DLC Ukraine and Sudan.

Finally, on soft power, as others have already said, challenging misinformation, providing important news, our empowerment through the news, our empowerment through the English language. And indeed in the area of human rights, I was proud to serve as the first envoy for freedom of religious belief and yes, I would say to other noble Lords, I worked with the first Trump Administration, it was there we established the first international alliance on the freedom of religion. I pay tribute to Sam Rowe back in that respect.

We to Sam Rowe back in that respect. We also established the human rights action regime, the state to the noble Lady directly, there are individuals and groups responsible for egregious abuse of human rights, and whilst the Minister I know cannot speculate, can she reassure your Lordships house for groups, and I use one such example, in Pakistan, I use one such example, in Pakistan, who in vile hatred fuelled attacks targeted minority for committees, that those leaders will continue to be used. To conclude, my Lords, we be used.

To conclude, my Lords, we must play our part in finding solutions, leading and convening parties, it is a real strength for our country, whether it is on the Ukraine and the Middle East, we are recognised for this, respected for this, and have real strengths. The world is changing and in paying tribute to our partners, such as the kingdom of Saudi Arabia in recent initiatives, such example is also shower shifting of power, realignment of alliances, and we, the UK, must embrace new partnerships and continue to play

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our part as a leader among nations. My Lords, I welcome the

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My Lords, I welcome the opportunity in this most timely of debates. And I also welcome the
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Lord Rogan Portrait Lord Rogan (Ulster Unionist Party)
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debates. And I also welcome the noble Lord to this House. There can be no doubt that the United Kingdom's place in the world order has been in question for some time. In relative terms, we are a small country. However, it is equally true that we always punch well above our weight. Indeed, the world has been reminded of our unique status in recent weeks, because of the lead role our Prime Minister's play in standing up for Ukraine and bringing European allies together in defence.

I pay one tribute to Keir Starmer for his diplomacy and forthright he has displayed in his handling in the current Oval Office. Equally, I commend him for his help to the Ukrainian people and of course, present Zelensky. -- President Zelensky. What has been on display in the House and any other place, to maintain that lasting peace in Ukraine continues. My Lords, there can be no question that all European nations now need to increase defend -- Defence spending by a significant degree.

It should have happened long ago under our previous government but at least the step changes now finally under way. My Lords, noble Lords will be aware that His Majesty's government recently awarded Defence Ltd, world leading defence contractor, based in Belfast. 1.6 billion contract to supply 5,000 to Ukraine, whilst this undoubtedly will bring great help to the Ukrainian war effort, it will bring significant balance to the Northern Ireland economy. My Lords, it was warmly received back home by all parties, other than IRA, who somewhat ironically gave their BO EDWARDS: Given their previous explosive devices.

Of course, ships and aircraft to the Ministry of Defence for stopping sincerely hope that the public will be at the front of the queue for defence contracts, as military spending has doubled in the serious and worrying times. My Lords, I wish to make one final point. It has come to greater public attention in recent weeks at the Republic of Ireland, alongside Austria and Switzerland, it must be said, is not contributed in any tangible way to the security of an increasingly threatened Europe.

Indeed, the Republic of Ireland, as the laws defence spending and European Union around 0.2% of GDP, I repeat, 0.2% of GDP. And yet, my Lords, the Republic of Ireland is getting all the security benefits of the rest of the European, paid for by others, including United Kingdom taxpayers. My Lords, I recently tabled a question, answer by the noble Lady, the Minister, I am delighted to see her in her place. Asking about the discussions Her Majesty's -- His Majesty's government have had, about the financial contribution towards protecting the security of Europe.

My Lords, I will not hold her somewhat generalised reply against her. However, given the UK is renowned in enhanced leadership in recent weeks, surely it is time for our Prime Minister to take a leaf from the President Trump's book, and help friends, particularly of Ireland, to climb off the fence and pay their way for security. Indeed, my Lords, I am surprised the president did not make this point directly, during his visit to the White House yesterday. I hope they will do so, when Mr Martin next

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crosses the threshold of Number Ten. My Lords, over the past two months, our world has tilted on its months, our world has tilted on its axis. A lot of our assumptions were overthrown. A lot of our ISMS are overthrown. A lot of our ISMS are suddenly wasms. It had been flagged up in advance, but to side with Russia while attacking NATO allies, Russia while attacking NATO allies, came as a shock, to instruct the ASA to stop treating Russia as a threat, to downgrade it as a source of cyber attacks.

Devote with North Korea, Belarus, Russia and the world delinquents in the United Nations on emotion even China was not prepared to support, to make aggressive territorial demands on Denmark and to wage actual economic war against I salute led the Minister on the action shooter yesterday on Canadian trade, -- she took. It's not a question on which anyone in this country can be neutral. I would also like to salute the administration for that mature and responsible attitude they have taken during these very sudden changes.

These very mercurial times. We haven't + of the price that we have with potentially a trade deal with the US, with close associations with what is still by far the world's strongest country and our biggest market. But we have been able to do so while standing up for the values that as a country we pride ourselves on having exported, as the heirs of a liberal and democratic tradition that stretches back through the Bill of Rights, even before the great Charter to the folk right of common
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Lord Hannan of Kingsclere Portrait Lord Hannan of Kingsclere (Conservative)
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law. Where are we left as such country? In this world that has been country? In this world that has been country? In this world that has been so suddenly shaken up. The question assumes some urgency when you look at some of the defence procurement decisions that have very long lead decisions that have very long lead times. We have all assumed until now times. We have all assumed until now that if there were a serious war, we would be part of a wider Western coalition, a U.S.-led coalition stops so yes we could manage stops so yes we could manage emergencies of Falkland war, but if you got serious, when it came to strategic lift, satellite and nucleus their parts, we assumed we would have the US deterrent there.

Can we assume we can land them in 30 or 40 years from now when the current death current expires -- the current nuclear deterrent expires. Would we be able to rely? I hope we would be able to allow now Americans but I'm less certain of it now. I hope we be able to rely on liberal and democratic countries in Western Europe but can we be certain? You would think the EU would bend over backwards to draw us into defence and security arrangement given their relative exposure to Russian relative exposure to Russian But I think they will not talk to us until we agree to open our fishing grounds.

On whom can we rely? The only thing I can say with certainty is that 30 or 40 years from now we will not be quarrelling with the countries that have always been our strongest supporters and closest allies, namely the other large Commonwealth realms, Australia, Canada and New Zealand. Somebody was telling me that if we were to make our nuclear system autonomous on the model of the French one, it would roughly double the budget. We could roughly double the budget by sharing our GDP responsibility with those three countries.

Here I should declare an interest as president of the Conservative Friends of Canada which launched at the other end of this building last night. It stands for closer cooperation military and strategic, among those four countries, as well as free movement of labour, the right to take a job in another country and enhanced free-market. I end with a suggestion that the two ministers. Next year is the centenary of the Westminster conference which began the transformation of the British Empire into a voluntary Commonwealth.

Is that not a sprint opportunity for His Majesty to invite the Prime Minister's office or largest realms and to show our song is not yet sunk in that we're only just getting

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started. -- House is not yet sunk. I want to thank the noble Lord

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I want to thank the noble Lord Lord Howell 'Securing the Ballot', and his very wise and thoughtful
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Baroness Prashar Portrait Baroness Prashar (Crossbench)
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and his very wise and thoughtful introduction. I also want to thank Lord Pitkeathley for his forward- looking maiden speech and one thing he and I have in common is that his mother also was my supporter and I was introduced to the House. In this short time, I want to enforce eyes three points. One, we have been witnessing significant changes in the global order. Time. The stance taken by Trump administration, should not be seen in isolation but it is symptomatic of the broader changes that we have been witnessing for some time.

Rebalancing of economic political power of a number of decades, accelerated by globalisation as greater prosperity and insecurity. Conflicts and pandemics and climate change are aggravating factors. Technological advances have enhanced connectivity, independence and interpenetration. All these have contributed to geopolitical and geo-economic shifts. My Lords, we have been invested in the current order for almost a decade eight decades and understandably instability and changing scenarios causing anxiety. But now is the opportunity to reposition ourselves and have multiple engagements to shape the emerging multiple rewards.

Changing mindset, fresh and bold thinking is required to protect our national interest and that of the international community. Engagement both at multilateral situations and with the multi- plural world is an imperative to influence and shape the international norms, rules and laws. The need for an active and agile foreign policy is both evident and urgent. I think based on the analysis provided by Lord Howell. My second point is about the need to strengthen our influence through 'soft power'. While in some instances boots on the ground may be necessary, and to keep peace we have to strengthen our defence capabilities, but in the long run, to keep peace, soft shoes on the ground will yield better results.

This is increasingly important in our volatile world where there is more need for deeper understanding, mutuality, collaboration, cooperation and new partnerships. We have decades of experience in the exercise of soft diplomacy and building intercultural relations. We were leaders in the space through the British Council, well before Joseph and the UK has dropped to third place behind China and significantly two pillars, business trade and governance. These are signs we need to bolster our 'soft power' strategy.

The government has established the 'soft power' Council but this requires just as much attention as defence, because hard and 'soft power' go hand-in-hand. And all the institutions which are the engine of our 'soft power' need support and revitalisation is. We have been a force for good, fair and balanced voice, our values, our governors. In recent years we have seconded our reputation and now is the time to recover that again -- squandered our reputation. Working through the Commonwealth should not be underestimated either.

Nor should be underestimated the importance of our broadest strategic relations with India and the global South. Finally, we should not see ourselves as a mid-size power. Our-connected world is no longer about power, it is about networks and what we have to bring to the table that is distinctive, and we have many distinctive assets as had been already mentioned. The role played by the Prime Minister in the current crisis is one illustration of what we are OK will of.

The change, is an opportunity to shape and negotiate our global influence and be optimistic in the wake Lord Howell was actually siting, so I very much hope the government will pay heed to

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what he had to say. I thank my noble friend Lord Howell for this debate. I apologise Howell for this debate. I apologise to the House for being slow. In getting to my seat. The kaleidoscopic view of the world kaleidoscopic view of the world today resembles that observed by Alice, probably more through the looking glass than in Wonderland. The February 28 scenes in the Oval The February 28 scenes in the Oval Office suggest that the bid by Office suggest that the bid by President Trump, and Putin is a role as one of the characters.

Democracy in so many of its countries and its absence in others increases the risk of anarchy. Anarchy is by definition unstable and so permits comedy promotes, alternative forms of rule. The Second World War resulted in the resounding defeat. The subsequent founding of the United Nations sought to banish fascism for all time. Article 24, sorry, article 2, of the charter, calls on all UN states " to refrain from threat or use of force against the territorial integrity or political independence of any state".

That could not be clearer. Yet today, fascism has re- emerged and is a growing threat to world peace, security and prosperity. Putin's Russia ticks every box, tyranny, brutality, intolerance, territorial expansion. It is not only ticking the boxes but by its ruthless diplomacy, it has managed to convert and expand the bricks groups of countries into an anti-Western alliance. -- BRICS. Perhaps the greatest threat from fascism now comes from political Islam. I emphasise that political Islam is not part of that religion of Islam.

Political Islam has attempted to hijack the theology of Islam and to support its own ideology. This ideology originated
13:57
Lord Marlesford Portrait Lord Marlesford (Conservative)
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in 18th-century which was a reform rule, it has relaunched in 1928, in rule, it has relaunched in 1928, in the formation of the Muslim in Egypt, the first to kill the Egypt, the first to kill the Egyptian prime minister, attempted Egyptian prime minister, attempted to kill, and in 1981 assassinated to kill, and in 1981 assassinated President Assad. Since that time, President Assad. Since that time, the Muslim Brotherhood has acted as the political front for many violent organisations.

A turning point was the unexpected launch of Islamic State ISIS in April 2014. From from the Iraqi al-Qaeda it rejects the national borders and has declared its ultimate aim of a worldwide caliphate. The ideology and presence of Islamic State is expanding widely and rapidly. Especially in sub- Saharan Africans. The nature of the lifestyle it seeks to impose is demonstrated daily for those who live under the Taliban in Afghanistan. It is crucial that we understand and pay the cost of resisting the twin threats, fascism and by President Putin, and by political Islam.

The UK, with hour- long history, and as a world leader, is one of the P5 members of the UN

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security council. Let it pay. I join in congratulating and

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I join in congratulating and thanking both the noble Lord Lord Howell of Guildford forcing this debate and my noble friend Lord debate and my noble friend Lord Pitkeathley of Camden Town for an excellent maiden speech, that was in
13:59
Lord Browne of Ladyton Portrait Lord Browne of Ladyton (Labour)
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excellent maiden speech, that was in my view a very good example of, if you have something worth saying in your Lordship's House, and you can also deliver it with a confident voice, a measured sense of self- deprecation, and a sense of humour, you have a far better chance of it being her biological house. -- Of it being heard. I shall focus on the UK position in Africa. The context proceeding take place against a sobering backdrop, 80% of the CID projects have been cancelled with the surviving 18% now falling under the auspices of the State Department.

Accompanying this cull has been a presidential narrative about the subversive nature of USA ID's activities that could have been dictated by the US's strategic dictated by the US's strategic Germany and France have cut aid over years, and with an international picture, we have been forced to cut money away from aid and towards defence, a decision I support Billions of dollars in loans to Africa, Africa required community assistance, in countries such as Libya, Niger, Burkina Faso, whilst its new African initiative, self- described agency, deepens Russia's influence through propaganda, civil society, networks and outreach.

Russia opened embassies in Burkina Faso tutorial Guinea last year, new ones are opening the show, with Sudan, Liberia, et cetera, due to open after. It is clearly strategic adversaries, with any vacuum left, by a western retreat from engagement in Africa. $$TRANSMITADA:Is for three reasons, my Lords. First, we three reasons, my Lords. First, we have a humanitarian duty to stop natural disasters and Climate Change (Scotland) Act. First, we are defined as what we do as a country, not our actions --...

And in some cases, keeps frozen conflicts from kindling into flame. In this sense, foreign aid should be defined as a national security spending, rather Translated into currency. It is often an early warning system, alerting us to a prospective outbreak of terrorist violence. Given, as I have said, that Russia and China prepared to step into any vacuum led by Western powers, and Africa, we will have to work extremely hard to ensure defence does not resemble someone selling their burglar alarm in order to buy a baseball that.

Based on the most recent forecast of GNI, the aid budget will be around 9.2 billion and I welcome the governments commitment to continuous work in Sudan, among other existing commitments. Before I finish, I would like to ask two questions to my noble friend, the minister, who I am delighted to see in her place. Firstly, can she tell the House what discussions have taken place as to the future balance of regional and country specific programs, as compared to spending on her multilateral commitments. In assessing what capacity we have now, it would be helpful to know whether the government envisages that balance changing or not, and secondly, what discussions have taken place, with the EU, as to whether there is scope for UK participant in future missions.

Collective action is more important than ever, at a time when we are finding it more difficult to act alone, or in the framework of an additional alliance.
14:03
Lord Balfe Portrait Lord Balfe (Conservative)
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My Lords, can I also begin by

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My Lords, can I also begin by Sucking the noble Lord, Lord Howell, for initiating this debate. I start with a quote from Lenin, " Do not mourn, organise." I think that the mourn, organise." I think that the last few weeks have demonstrated that we need to look very fundamentally at what we are fundamentally at what we are organising our defences for. And in particular, I hope the noble Lord, particular, I hope the noble Lord, Lord Robertson, will read this debate, and will, if necessary, debate, and will, if necessary, write, rewrite, considerable portions of his report, which is about to give to the government.

I am not sure that we should be planning for war. I think we need more thorough planning for peace. To make sure that the voice of Britain is listed two in the world. We are too much stuck in the language of the past. NATO, Churchill, we need to move into the future. And our future as a medium-sized, number seven in the world, important regional power. Our home defence needs, as I would prioritise them, are basically the Baltics, the Nordics, and the northern Europeans.

But it's a look at things, for instance, like the ability to protect our undersea assets. We need to look at playing a much more active part in the Arctic Council. But most of all, and this is something which would have to be done very privately, I recognise. We need an independent British nuclear need an independent British nuclear deterrent. We can no longer rely on the system we have relied on up until now. We have to acknowledge the French got it right.

It will cost us quite a bit of money, and having just told you to forget Ernie, he said I want a bomb with the union jack on top. We have to look at this, as part of our defence capacity. Yesterday, in the Times, the noble Baroness Foster give a good list of written's overseas commitments which still exist. We know that the only way we could defend the Falklands is by a nuclear defend the Falklands is by a nuclear threat.

And we also know that we couldn't make it with the present structure of our defence forces. we need a strong defence and an independent Nokia deterrent and I would put it to you that we need to negotiate at least to get France and Germany into the Five Eyes agreement. It is too skewed at the moment. So, there is a big challenge ahead. I am glad that, for once, I have been able to make a speech without annoying everybody. But I will say that I do strongly believe in British defence.

I believe we need to strengthen our military forces. I believe we need to strengthen our soft power, particularly through the British Council and overseas service of the BBC. This is a huge challenge that I am sure the noble minister, who I also congratulate all her elevation, would be a convincing her colleagues to face it.

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My Lords, I thank Lord Howell for securing this very timely debate. Add my congratulations to Baron Pitkeathley for a very enlightening, Pitkeathley for a very enlightening, as well as very to the point, maiden as well as very to the point, maiden speech. In a very short time available, I'm not going to try and deliver a verdict on the UK's global deliver a verdict on the UK's global position. But in light of what Trump has been up to, I want to make a
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Baroness Neville-Jones Portrait Baroness Neville-Jones (Conservative)
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has been up to, I want to make a couple of points about fundamentals about UK security, on which our role in the world really hangs. Since the inauguration of the 47th President of the United States, I have been more worried, I think, about what is happening, then I can remember since the Cuban missile crisis. When we fear for our lives. It is not true to say that is the case today. But I do feel the growing threat to our freedoms from an aggressive and highly militarised Russia, in alliance with China.

It's a different world. The UK is lucky not to be the front line geographically. But the Kremlin's ambassador in London has made it clear that they have got the UK in their sights, and I think we can expect, at the very least, increased espionage, cyber attacks. Aimed at destabilising our politics and services. And incidents may be on the CN under the sea, as well as attempted assassinations. It is an -- Long-standing Russian policy to interfere in other people societies.

I have no doubt that the UK can cope with this level of threat. It will lead, I think, to do much more than is currently the case. To strengthen the resilience of national infrastructure against attack. That is a task I think not just for the government, but also the private sector. The imponderable question is whether this country and other Europeans have the will to have the capability to deter Russian attack against our security. It is fair to say that hitherto, we have sought collectively as Europeans to do just enough to keep the US aboard.

Without suggesting we could do without them. Now that is very clear that this level of effort will no longer suffice whatever colour administration is an office in Washington, an hour in the future. What is much less clear is whether in the foreseeable future we will still be operating within the integrated framework of NATO, or whether, in effect, the US will opt out over the article 5 guarantee. Which will also have the removal of the umbrella and effective end of NATO.

On one level, it will be helpful to know what we are up against, but on another, I dread to know the answer, which I doubt would be founded on any well thought through American national security strategy. For all our doubts about Washington and what is going on the moment, the Prime Minister is well advised in my view to present policy as being based on the assumption of continuing the full-blooded American commitment to European security. I do hope however, and others have said this, that we are thinking hard This what happens next in Ukraine can bring answers, my Lords.

This is my last point, there are several scenarios, it seems unlikely the Russians will flatly reject a ceasefire. Through which lies an apparent path to the lifting of sanctions and potential end of isolation. I think it is doubtful they will act in good faith. They they will act in good faith. They will spell out talks in their territory, they will make the guardrails of a ceasefire as weak as possible, and they will set out to find pretext to resuming fighting based on claims of Ukrainian preachers.

And the likelihood of fighting resuming is high. And after that, it could be fatal. The Americans back the Ukrainians or will they try and mix? It could be the end of the road I think for the defence of Europe as we have known it. Credible backing, credible American backing, for any ceasefire, is essential. And on this key issue, the UK is indeed showing the leadership which I think this House which is to say, and I can pressure if the government for pursuing it.

-- And I congratulate the government for pursuing it. for pursuing it.
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Lord Taylor of Goss Moor Portrait Lord Taylor of Goss Moor (Liberal Democrat)
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My Lords, I also welcome Baron Pitkeathley and I hope he enjoys his time here, as rather difficult times. So we look forward to further contributions. And I want to thank Lord Howell for making possible a really important debate. It is more than important, it is actually extraordinary debate. It would be inconceivable for the House to be united, saying the things it has said about our position in the world and particularly the position of the United States, even months ago, or even weeks ago.

And as we debated, matters are changing fast, even as we speak. These are unprecedented times. Where America has joined the Atocha season dictatorships of the world in a belief that might is right, abandoning the rule of law, abandoning international free trade, abandoning liberal democracies, attacking its own allies, and clearly adopting the same expansionism than that of Putin. It is as if the Americans first movement in the 1930s had seized power just at the point where the Americans come in practice, actually became behind us, to defeat Hitler, when those Americans first politicians had argued for them to abandon Europe to Hitler.

The wrong side has taken control. It is unimaginable that the chamber would be united in these concerns, yet that is obviously so. Just a touch that is obviously so. Just a touch of the two big issues. One trade. I think it is slightly evident that there is nothing about what Trump is saying, he is saying it more today, that this country can expect a generally good trade agreement with the United States. If he has one, it will be entirely based on self- interest, it will be entirely based on a rendering any measure of our interest to do a deal.

We have to recognise that we need to work with all countries that believe in the rule of law free trade international institutions to build an alliance around trade, and we cannot compromise our position by thinking somehow we can sit on both sides now somehow we can sit on both sides now of the Atlantic. As that is just not an opportunity available to us. The second thing I want to say is on defence. People often misunderstood what NATO is about. The most important element NATO provided was effectively an anti-proliferation treaty.

It was saying that you can rely on America to defend us. And therefore, you do not need the bomb. France had a few come independently. It has a smaller view, which is actually not independent of America in any event. We cannot in practice The offer was to Japan, South Korea, Thailand, the Baltics, Britain, Germany, France, all of those other democracies, is we will defend you and therefore you don't need the bomb. But even more important than that, we need not just a defence alliance across Europe and other, I think, like-minded countries, we are going to have to think about that now.

Which has a nuclear deterrent. But behind the nuclear deterrent was the promise that actually if Russia or China use nuclear-weapons at any point, the first response would be a non-nuclear one, an overwhelming shocker nor attack, and this was set to Russia when they threatened nuclear at the earlier start of the Ukraine war. You will be taken out by a non-nuclear response, but the by a non-nuclear response, but the only country in the world capable of providing that is America and it's quite apparent that we cannot rely on them to do so.

Indeed it's very unlikely they would do so. So our defence needs to work with our like-minded allies around the world, to build a non-nuclear capability, to respond to stop these whites right countries of which America is now one.

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All noble Lords need to stick to the advisory time of four minutes.

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Have to finish the debate by 3:19 PM. I congratulate my noble friend on

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I congratulate my noble friend on securing this debate. And that noble Lord Lord Pitkeathley on his Lord Lord Pitkeathley on his interesting maiden speech. My noble friend Lady May set out a powerful vision for our global position in vision for our global position in her leg as to how speech in January 2017, already eight years ago. She reminded us that our history and culture are profoundly internationalist. She suggested that our previous place in the European Union had come at the expense of our
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Viscount Trenchard Portrait Viscount Trenchard (Conservative)
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global ties and of a bolder embrace of free-trade with the wider world. Have you very much times with my own which was much influence the years I which was much influence the years I spent in Japan in the 1980s and 1990s representing the investment 1990s representing the investment bank. The relationship between the UK and Japan had already largely UK and Japan had already largely recovered from the Second World War and many Japanese harbour defection and many Japanese harbour defection for Britain -- harbour defection for Britain.

The influence we could bring to bear and the respect in which we are held in Japan did not in anyway derive either from our membership of the EU, or from the special relationship that we have maintained since the phrase was coined by Winston Churchill, in 1946. My Lords, things have changed since then, more than any of us had ever dreamt possible. The new administration in Washington has destroyed our certainties and made us and our other allies around the world sit up and rethink everything.

But it is not just because I am one quarter American that I venture to suggest that it is too early to suggest that the special relationship is over for good. But it is very clear that the UK and our allies are going to have to do much more of the heavy lifting in Europe and that we are all going to have to spend much more on defence. It was reassuring to hear that the Secretary of State for Defence said that he was determined to continue to work with the US to deepen our defence ties.

We should also give credit to the Prime Minister for the leadership he has demonstrated in working with other allies such as Australia in assembling a coalition of the willing to protect a ceasefire in Ukraine. It's clearly necessary to increase our defence spending significantly and I welcome the Prime Minister's mention of the 3% figure although I was impressed by recent speech by the noble and gallant Lord Lord Stirrup in which he pointed out that a recent study suggested that NATO countries need to spend 3.7% of their collective GDP now in order to maintain defence capabilities at a level necessary to meet the challenges we face.

I think it is important to continue to work without European and transatlantic allies to NATO, both because it is the most likely way to maintain US commitment to the alliance and because Canada and the US even nearer than we are to another area of growing instability, the Arctic and high North. I do not believe the global aspirations adopted by the last government after Brexit were unrealistic. The tilt to Indo- Pacific was greatly welcomed by our friends in the region. It was well matched by our accession to the CPTPP in which Japan played a larger role than is appreciated by many.

The CPTPP can become an engine of growth and it is exciting that following Britain's accession, other countries such as Indonesia and South Korea have applied or stated their intentions to join. In carrying out its planned reset of our EU relationships, this important not to yield the siren voices asking for dynamic alignment with EU rules because that would put the kibosh on our effective participation in CPTPP. Now that the UK has to end, 8/12 CPTPP member states are Commonwealth countries, Lord Howell is a strong supporter of the Commonwealth and I believe that we should work with its members and organisations to support more stability, more free-trade and more prosperity around the world.

Working also with our other friends and allies we should not underestimate how much we can achieve. I congratulate noble Baroness on her promotion and look forward to how

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her winding up speech. I congratulate Lord Howell most warmly on securing this debate and warmly on securing this debate and join him in welcoming Lord Pitkeathley. It is timely to review
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Lord Mountevans Portrait Lord Mountevans (Crossbench)
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Pitkeathley. It is timely to review Britain's global position, the world is changing rapidly around us in many ways. We are facing the additional challenges posed by highly unusual Washington, hitherto one of the most fundamental of our international relationships. We have been favoured relative to many countries with our raw materials, we have an abundance of an overall very talented workforce. We have a significant number of exceptional universities, Britain has a high, proud heritage of remarkable innovation. Around Britain whole evident face of history, achievement, professionalism, onyx, our historic buildings, the Lords amendment and courts, and scientific innovation, such a brilliant job in international broadcasting, universities, British Council, many technical and professional institutions, our Armed Forces, need much more are positive and impressive.

As early as speaker has cautioned the must not sit back and rest on our laurels. Recalling the famous quotation, four things to the rain the same, everything must change, perhaps not everything but money will need to change. How do we achieve the right sort of change and not by change? First you must grow our economy and prosperity. Fundamentally, is to grow aspiration among more about condiment. Many of Countryman are content but could aim higher. Homeworking and the longtail of COVID have been very detrimental to our economy and our society.

There are occasions perhaps in particular circumstances or with specific sectors where it is justified but overall society, businesses organisations are better served by the team working together stability, problem-solving, encouraging, having growing skills together. Also fundamental is to work not necessarily harder but to work smarter. We need to grow and sustain a favourable environment for business. With respect to all other sectors, many of them critical, but this is the key to growth. With great respect the minister, the budget was unhelpful to business., Ask if in her new position, will she urged the Treasury to look more positively on UK businesses when awarding human contracts? The defence and strategic aspects of Britain's global position have been discussed admirably already, so I give my intention to 'soft power' which becomes so important.

And specifically the city of London, an important national asset in many ways. The city of London is a significant contributed to UK 'soft power' stop financial services are cut 30% of UK economic output, and employ 1.1 million people, with a further 1.4 and employ 1.1 million people, with a further 1.4 million in related professional services. Financial services contribute to growth, not only in our economy but also internationally, and thus to export markets. New 'soft power' Council is to be welcomed, and offers a valuable opportunity to enhance the global influence.

Its composition should be broadened and strengthened, through key businesses ensuring a more comprehensive and representative approach to enhancing the U.K.'s global influence. The UK international engagement to be envisaged by the Lord Mair, to key local markets. The Lord Mair's overseas visit our company by business delegations to obstruct regulations, foster economic partnerships, showcase expertise and offer a wide, with global stage. The city Corporation is building a new courthouse in Fleet Street to increased adversity and project an image of the city that remains at the forefront of provision, arbitration and education.
14:26
Lord Udny-Lister Portrait Lord Udny-Lister (Conservative)
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I welcome today's debate and I pay tribute two noble friend Lord Howell of Guildford for securing the opportunity. And also, I would like to thank him for his brilliant analysis of the situation which I thought was excellent, and I enjoyed thought was excellent, and I enjoyed listening to. I also want to add my congratulations to Lord Brooke athlete on his maiden speech. The international order is shifting and today we stand at a crossroads. I like anybody else rise to reform that the United Kingdom must remain a force for freedom, prosperity and peace in a very troubled world.

And as mounting global uncertainty seeks to challenge the post-1945 world order, we have an obligation, new duty, to reassert our leadership, and to stand shoulder and shoulder without allies, particularly in Europe, in the defence of the very principles that have long underpinned outstanding in the world. Nowhere is this more relevant than in the events, and resolved to support and standby the people of Ukraine. Costing our minds back to the 24th February, 2022, the barbaric and legal invasion of Ukraine by the Russian Federation was not merely an unprovoked attack on a sovereign nation.

But an assault on the universal values, democracy, freedom, and above all, rule of law. To date the people of Ukraine fight not just for soil boundaries on a map but for the values that have defined our national psyche for centuries. I welcome the government's continued support for Ukraine as it demonstrates that we stand for, what we stand for as a nation. We had been at the very forefront of military, economic and humanitarian support. But I will remind the House that even when others did the and Ali, we must not fault in our resolve, in our efforts for that very security and peace of Europe hangs very finely in the balance.

History teachers -- teaches us that Britain's strength had never been passive but in boldness. It is now time for the government to go even further and indeed I congratulate the Prime Minister and the stance has taken and what he has done. We must go further in our support for Ukraine. It's time therefore to take rapid action in bringing forward the legislation that is needed to seize and utilise frozen Russian assets. I appreciate that there is not an issue on which Britain can act alone.

But as we did in 20. But as we did in 22, we must lead in uniting Europe and the G-7 in bringing forward the legal mechanisms required to mobilise more than 237 more than 237 billion worth of frozen assets and deploy them to bring about the ending of this horrific war. If we showed leadership here, it will send a message to the world that the United Kingdom remains in force for good and the standardbearer, of justice, liberty amongst the nations. I believe therefore that at this point in time, we must continue to show the support and to continue to provide leadership as we develop our provide leadership as we develop our

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I congratulate Lord Howell for securing the debate and I want to congratulate Baron Pitkeathley for a
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Baroness Stuart of Edgbaston Portrait Baroness Stuart of Edgbaston (Crossbench)
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congratulate Baron Pitkeathley for a very good maiden speech. Last night, I attended an event where the premise of Samoa spoken she reminded her audience that in difficult times, it is always better to stand face-to-face rather than back to back. And I think she was right. Because at a time when global norms and traditional modes of engagement are being deconstructed, face-to- face dialogue is ever more important. This requires us to build bridges, often by having difficult conversations with allies, and even more difficult conversations with adversaries, and for this, we require places and organisations who can convene and facilitate in person dialogue.

Walton Park is such an organisation, and for the record, I declare my interest as the Chair of Walton Park, an executive agency of the foreign Commonwealth development office. We are undoubtedly a global player, but I think our confidence has been waxing and waning in recent years. The broad directly reflects that at home, but in our public facing dialogue, we haven't always made this sufficiently clear. Understanding this direct causal relationship matters in a democracy. Similarly, no business can ignore geostrategic developments.

Business as usual in global affairs is no longer an option. There is a sense of urgency. The UK government needs to confidently place itself as a key driver in shaping the international order which, for the moment, cannot rely on all its traditional allies to enforce that order. We have many of the skills and resources needed but we have to use them in a radically different way. Last year, Wilton Park set up a global impact group, and we were very grateful to the noble Lady and the Minister for speaking at the launch of Lancaster House.

This was a collaborative effort between the private sector and government, to foster the working relationships and a mutual understanding. At a time when the United States is treating -- Retreating from international engagement, the UK has an opportunity and need to set up key markets. We should also show greater confidence in defending structures and articulate why it is a better model for organising societies than model for organising societies than any other. And I expect the college for diplomacy will grace an important role for increasing our capacity for absorbing the fast changing insights, skills and relationships, driving today's world.

Learning alongside representatives from business, friendly governments, and other organisations who equally need to understand how to navigate an ever more complex global picture. At a meeting last night, with the British menace here, the Prime Minister of Samoa, I also talked with this -- The Secretary-General and I think we need to remind ourselves the modern Commonwealth is a voluntary association of 56 independent and equal sovereign states, with a combined population of 2.7 billion, of which 60% is under the age of 29.

And that their secretariat is based here in London. All this was a very forceful reminder that we are an incredibly interconnected state in a great global position. But it requires us to actually use what we have commuted with a sense of urgency, and use it with our allies, our willing allies, those we can trust.
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Lord Sherbourne of Didsbury Portrait Lord Sherbourne of Didsbury (Conservative)
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In the Simpsons, there was an episode where Homer Simpson says about the Economist magazine. I do not need to spend four dollars a week to be told Indonesia is at the week to be told Indonesia is at the crossroads. Well, we in the West today really are in the crossroads, as has been said by my noble friend, Lord Howard of Lympne, and many others. And the international chess board has been thrown up, and we still do not know where those pieces are going to land.

So I congratulate my noble friend, Lord Howell of Guildford, for having secured this debate at such an important time. There are three main challenges it There are three main challenges it seems to me, which we now face, and I would be interested to hear the ministers reflections on these. The first is our relationship with the United States. Which until now, the Anglo-American alliance has been the cornerstone of British foreign policy. And the question we are all asking now is how far can we rely on the United States.

We know we have to take on more defence, but how reliable is the US as an ally. The second great challenges our relationship with Europe. How you recalibrate that. The Prime Minister I think sees himself as the bridge between Europe and the United States. I do not know quite how that is going to work. Again, the ministers reflections on that would be very helpful. The third great challenges defence. Of course, we should have been spending more on defence for many years, so I very much welcome the government's decision to increase defence expenditure, going up to, to target, 3% of GDP, but I would also like to know a bit more about not just the percentage, but what exactly the defence expenditure is going to go on, what it is going to provide, how it is going to help meet our objectives.

I am sure this will come out in the defence review in due course as well. I also want to make two other points. The first is the point made by my noble friend, which is that one of the strengths of a country is not just the hard power, but also the economic strength of the country. And we know that we have, for many years, been falling behind. In particular, the United States, which has had much greater economic growth than we have.

And we do need to make sure that we do everything we can to secure, the government, I know that is the objective of the government, to secure a more successful economy, and a stronger economy. Because that gives Britain strength in the world for separate the second point, which is referred to by my noble friend, Lord Howell of Guildford, is soft Lord Howell of Guildford, is soft power. And he referred to the report of, I think it was, 2014 when he chaired the committee looking into soft power.

And I would urge the government to go back and take that report off-the-shelf. It is full of a lot of recommendations and it is really worth, I think, pulling that out again, and looking at seeing what else the government could do.

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It is a pleasure to follow the very thoughtful contribution of the noble Lord, and with others, to thank the noble Lord, Lord Howell, thank the noble Lord, Lord Howell, thank the noble Lord, Lord Howell, for bringing this debate to us, and give us the opportunity to hear the excellent maiden speech by the noble Lord, Baron Pitkeathley, made under Lord, Baron Pitkeathley, made under what I observed to be a studious eye from the occupant of the Royal SAC at the time.

The noble Lord said dreams alone are not enough, that is something these benches have reflected on for many years. But he is very welcome, and he won excellent contributions to this
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Lord Purvis of Tweed Portrait Lord Purvis of Tweed (Liberal Democrat)
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House. The noble Lord, Lord Howell, ask us to set aside perhaps some of ask us to set aside perhaps some of the orthodoxies, but consider the fast pace of change. Baroness Usher fast pace of change. Baroness Usher said it was a kind of recognition, said it was a kind of recognition, which I kind of agree with. And Lord Taylor said in response there is a high degree of consensus in this chamber. There are, for us, I think chamber. There are, for us, I think on a cross-party basis, and a nonparty basis, the norms and rules are even more important in a modern technological world.

Especially if those who control the technology have personal political and financial ambitions. Where they see nationstates as vessels. Just this week, the Polish Foreign Minister called for a European satellite and security resilience. Elon Musk replied on X, " Be quiet, small man, there is no substitute for Stalin." We have benefited up until recently on navigating these uncertainties and complexities of the 21st- century. As a joint partner both within and then with the European Union, and then closely with the United States.

We know, however, we cannot entirely reliable from -- The Trump Administration on the latter. Thomas Friedman in the New York Times this week wrote, and I quote, I would call trump's foreign-policy philosophy not containment or engagement but smash and grab. Trump aspires to be a geopolitical shoplifter. I think that that has a great deal of sense to it. This new reality is posing as major challenges. It is fair to say, I think very fair to say, that our Prime Minister is conducting himself, on behalf of us all, with professionalism and seriousness of fitting the office.

And importantly, the moment. And we thank him for it. This recognition of course will not inhibitors from highlighting areas of either difference or concern. We are a functioning democracy and Parliament. It is my noble friend, Lord Bruce, spoke with so eloquently, he referred to, as many others have, choices and development assistance. But also soft power, and we remain a very significant force in that and that is to be welcomed. But as the noble Lady highlighted, recent complacency is having a four behind China and putting us in the deteriorating position, with regards our relationship with developing economies.

I have often sometimes questioned the term soft power, but questioned the term soft power, but when we look at what it means which is quality, innovation, standards, reliability, predictability, these should all be part of our position in the world. All elements are in deep need, given our key partner, showing very little of those qualities. It is why when we look at our well serviced cherished BBC around the world, when there is concern about its future funding, we come from these benches, will challenge the Minister and CQI -- Seek to add pressure.

When it comes to other areas of odour, links to national security, I will continue to ask and challenge the Minister, intemperate ways, with regard to perhaps choices the government has made wrong directions. She earlier suggested I might not have done well in the House of Commons, right I think the response is intemperate. Her noble friend, behind her, will know I have a saddle leather thick skin from my time in the Scottish parliament. We will have this cut and thrust because we can in our Parliament, and that is to be cherished, but on that aspect, I wanted to agree very strongly with the noble Lord, Lord Browne.

He highlighted one of the areas, for example, of the consequences of cutting odour, in areas where the countries at the front line against not only terrorism, but also the encroachment of Russia. So, for example, there was a high degree of consensus when we prescribed the Wagner grip, but in areas where the success in Africa is active, it makes little sense for our national security to Paul O the dealer to a development funding, when it comes to resilience against autocracies. On 26 March 10 years ago, there was consensus when we passed the 0.7 legislation in this House.

Part of that consensus was not just about the 0.7 level and let our ability to be a development partner should be one of at scale. But it was also the defence spending and development investment are complementary. And one should not be cooked to fund the other. -- Cut to fund the other. I hope we can restore that consensus, because it is of great significance to our standing in the world. It was interesting to me that when we look at the fiscal tests, they were not being met in 2014 or 15.

When we established 0.7. These are policy choices, not physical choices, and that is why when we come to policy choices of our positions in the world, the fastest we can return to 0.7 the better. Lord Kerr said that there was some shift in American policy, that perhaps could be argued by some in America, apologists for Trump, not himself, that the main adversary is Beijing. Therefore, we have to settle ourselves to the recent rescheduling of our relationship with Moscow.

That doesn't even make sense for those that support the Trump administration when they argue for that, because of the decisions they have made one single decisions on TikTok, Elon Musk wanting contracts from Beijing, and raising concern about Taiwan. And therefore, I want to raise Taiwan and some others. I hope the House will allow me to be just partisan for a second. Taiwan, Ukraine, and now Canada, all have governments who are our sister parties. There are liberals on the frontline of the challenges of this new unsettling world order.

And in fascinating discussions I have with my parliamentary colleagues in all three of those governing parties, they have inspired me, because this is where a wants to close. In listening to the Baroness Sater others, my noble friend, there are opportunities in this global landscape. First, I agree with the point that the noble Lord Howard made, there are more people living in a democracy, more people living in economic security, then ever before in civilisation. However messy or uneven or unequal that is.

But for my party, often perhaps with bitter experience or maybe because of a Scottish perspective, when you have exhausted pessimism, there is only optimism left. So, what are the opportunities? We are seeing now, parliaments, yes parliament, whether Lebanon, Ukraine, who are resisting the interference of cyber attacks on a daily basis, or interference in democratic elections. There are civil society, young women, still in Sudan, doing remarkable things to keep their communities safe. In unbelievable difficult There are political leaders, brave and principled, and we should be signalling our support for them.

There are innovative young people, especially in African who present an enormous economic and social opportunity for the UK and of course there are the networks, whether it's the Commonwealth or European Union. Nancy Pelosi said diversity is our strength but unity is our power. We can relate that to our networks of friendships around the world. There is also standards, including the sustainable development goals which interestingly received not one mention in the debate so far. We can work with our allies, and let me close on this.

We do need to have the 2.5 and growing defence, not funded from cuts in ODA but perhaps as we have suggested, tech companies contributing not to% but 10% of their unlearned efforts. There should be a distinct department again, not a replacement of the 1997 one but for global transition, so when countries know that in this uncertain world, were now transitioning to 0 poverty and zero emissions, the UK is a reliable, dependable and predictable partner, at a time of great flux.

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My Lords, it is indeed a pleasure today to address this important today to address this important subject and to have heard so many great speeches from all sides of the House. There seems to have been an overall theme of strategic uncertainty, just how much the world has changed in the last few weeks, has changed in the last few weeks, the debate was I have to say so ably the debate was I have to say so ably moved by my noble friend Lord Howell of Guildford in what I thought was of Guildford in what I thought was an outstanding introductory contribution.

I also really enjoyed listening to an excellent maiden speech from Lord Pitkeathley. Unlike the rest of the House I'm sure we are all looking forward to what will be some excellent contributions to your Lordship's House in the future. My noble friend Lord Howell made some very thought-provoking points in his introduction. And I agree with so many of his conclusions,
14:48
Lord Callanan Portrait Lord Callanan (Conservative)
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physically about the world being potentially on the edge of an abyss. potentially on the edge of an abyss. I'm sure like many others of the house, we wake up in the morning, we house, we wake up in the morning, we switched on the radio will stop and we wonder with trepidation or we wonder with trepidation or statements have emerged from the current occupant of the White House during the night. And indeed we have during the night. And indeed we have had more of them during our, during the course of today's debate.

We debated yesterday during oak use some of the appalling attacks on our Canadian brethren, and I recommend the government for the support they have avoided -- I commend. Even it is the Liberal Party, sometimes we have to support them in their democracies. I was particularly impressed by the contribution made by my noble friend Lord Howard, who I thought expressed very well the changing nature of the US under its current leader, who it seems sadly as he said can no longer be regarded as an ally, and as my noble friend also said, he seems to revel in his and predictability, which is an uncomfortable realisation for those of us who have grown up during an era of US leadership, for someone occupying the presidency of the US, and throughout my political life, I have always regarded to be the leader of the free world and somebody that I wanted to support.

My noble friend Lord Vaizey I thought also made some excellent points about UK 'soft power' one of the greatest of which, which I don't think has been much mentioned in the debate, our education system. A few weeks ago, alongside Lord Purvis, we were in Malaysia, with the CPA delegation, and it was striking just how many of our interlocutors in parliament and the government had been educated in UK universities or currently had children attending them and used it as an excuse to visit our country, and it really is a powerful 'soft power' asset of the UK.

My noble friend Lord Hannan was right to remind us of the importance of our largest continental allies and the opportunity of working with them in a can sack like relationship is, I think, one we should take is, I think, one we should take increasingly seriously. There has been of course an off a lot of common ground in this debate and that's understandable. But there are have to say actions of the current government that I want to take issue with. I think there is great danger and concern, that some of their actions on the world stage.

My Lords, last week it was announced in China, Britain had fallen behind China on a prestigious 'soft power' index. And whilst we welcome and we are enthusiastic backers of the government was not continued support for Ukraine, as I said it has taken some decisions to which we are opposed. Nowhere is this more evident than in the government's decision to transfer the Chagos Islands to Mauritius. This is not just a betrayal of the Chagossian people, it's a profound abdication of buttons responsibilities as a sovereign power -- Britain's possibilities.

The islands have been British territory for over two centuries. I think this government since eagerness to please international critics populated as it is by human rights lawyers, has shown no regard for our strategic interests, nor for the right of the trickle seems to defend their future. -- The rights of the Chagossian people. We have surrendered territory in a way reminiscent of past colonial retreats. Sending the message that Britain no longer has the resolve to defend its commitments. It sets a precedent.

What message does this send to our overseas territories, the Falkland Islands or even Gibraltar? A strong Britain in my view does not surrender territory for short-term democratic approval,. It should not apologise for its past, it should build upon it. We should reject the culture of retreat, UKI thinks remains a global power -- UKI thinks remains a global power stock which stand by our overseas territories and we need to defend our territory, we should refuse to be cowed by those who seek to diminish our role on the world

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stage. It was all going really well
14:53
Baroness Chapman of Darlington Portrait Baroness Chapman of Darlington, Parliamentary Under-Secretary (Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office) (Labour)
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It was all going really well then. I thank Lord Callaghan for that and when he was on universities I thought this was going to be I thought this was going to be really good. I was a Chancellor of the University until I was told that would be incompatible with role in government. I agree with him about how important it is for our higher education partnerships, and the benefits we have, of leaders coming here to be educated and the great export we have in our amazing higher education institutions.

But I have to say to then pivot to Chagos and then to suggest that in anyway, there is a threat, particularly to the Falkland Islands, is really unbecoming of that noble Lord, who actually was doing rather well up until that point. The level of consensus and agreement in this chamber this afternoon I think speaks really well of all speeches that we have heard and it's just such a shame that we had a little bit of a blip with that section of his speech.

Never mind, we will move on nonetheless. I am grateful to the noble Lord Lord Howell for securing this debate. And I physically pay tribute to his work over many years, but recently in the international agreements committee, it's been an outstanding debate. Just to mention first of all Lord Pitkeathley for his excellent maiden speech. The creativity, adaptability and leadership, that he recommended to us all, he demonstrated in his speech. In his first motto that he said he had, in his organisation, I would refer the noble Lord Road opposite to and I'm not going to repeat it but he can look it up in Hansard.

I thank all noble Lords for their contributions. Lord Howell asks where the trust and respect, and he said the Manas, R. And I -- where the manners are. I would say our promise to is behaving with impeccable decency, integrity and diplomatic skill at this time of real challenge and disruption in the world. And I thank all noble Lords who have made similar points about the work that Keir Starmer is doing. We cannot always influence others as much as we might like.

But we can control what we do and the way we go about it. I am proud of our Prime Minister in that. We can all see that the world faces an uncertain future. Into many places it is dangerous, contested and volatile. We are seeing greater number of active armed conflicts than any time since the Second World War. And progress to address them is fragile. From Russia's brutal, illegal, unprovoked invasion of Ukraine, to the need for a permanent ceasefire and lasting peace in the Middle East.

The natural world around us is under enormous pressure. With the ever more visible impact of climate change and environmental degradation on every continent, including here in the UK. We are seeing the rapid emergence of artificial intelligence, hybrid threats, cyber-attacks. Adversaries active in all of these areas. As the Foreign Secretary underlined at the G20, so many of the latest challenges and opportunities we face today are truly global. With direct consequences for the national interest. And my right honourable friend the Prime Minister has been clear stock we may not like it, but here we are.

In a world where so much has changed, and as Homer Simpson would no doubt agree, we are at a crossroads in history and I thank Lord Sherbourne for that influence. We had everything from Lenin to Nancy Pelosi and The Simpsons. That speaks of this debate. As he suggested, it is time to act. Generational challenge requires a generational response to a demand is extremely difficult and painful choices. It requires us to pull on our strengths. And it puts a premium on our willingness and our policy to focus squarely on the world as it is, and not as we wanted to be.

So we take realistic steps towards the secure, prosperous, stable future that people everywhere want to see, including here in the UK. Lord Hannan encouraged us to sing our song to that world and I would agree. Baroness Pasha, encouraged soft shoes on the ground, like her emphasis on deaf efforts, assure her that our 'soft power' is going well. It is early days. She is right and others made the point as well that 'soft power' goes hand- in-hand with strong defence.

It was wonderful to hear Baroness Stuart champion the benefits of dialogue, specifically wills apart, and I commend her to all she does to bring about the vital conversations that have never been more needed. Milos, a national is the bedrock of the UK society and economy and the ultimate guarantor of everything that we hold dear. It is the foundation of this government's Plan for Change, seven months ago the British people gave this government this responsibility and we hold it with profound sense of duty.

Using's rush is a threat, Tony to Ukraine and its neighbours but to all of Europe including the UK deaf Putin's Russia. As I've taken on the international and brief over recent weeks, some think that has been at the forefront of my mind is how deeply the impacts of Russia's aggression are being felt by the purist and most vulnerable people right across the globe. So we are speeding up support for Ukraine and increasing economic pressure on Russia stop the Prime Minister, the Foreign Secretary and the Defence Secretary have travelled to Washington in recent weeks, convened European leaders including here in London, and brought friends and allies together from both sides of the Atlantic, just as we have done for decades to ensure peace and.

Serious leadership, exactly what the times required. Indeed the UK has a unique role to play, we are focused on pursuing a just and lasting peace through strength. And as many noble friends will understand, our closest ally, the United States, has focused on the Indo-Pacific increasingly over successive administrations and Baroness Neville-Jones spoke wisely, I thought, on this point. We are calling for NATO's European members to shoulder more of the burden for our continence security for top Lord Balfe and Lord Hannet referred to Erzin and I thank them for that.

I can assure them that the Foreign can assure them that the Foreign We are stepping up. This is not to please the US, but as Lord Howard said, we must. This is to strengthen our own security in a time of instability and threat. Indeed these are shared priorities from a AUKUS partnership, which the Foreign Secretary visiting Japan and the Philippines last week. The Prime Minister is a long-standing argument that all European allies must step up and do more for our own defence.

And I thank Lord Ahmad for his comments on leadership, soft power and diplomacy. His words were grounded in values. Despite our different affiliations, that he talked about with football teams. I do not care about football teams, but I note the point he was making. Despite our different affiliations, I think we share many of those values across this House. At this moment of pressure on public finances and geopolitics changing around us, things are moving quickly and we will never leave our country ill prepared for a more dangerous world, or facing even tougher choices, in the future.

So it is right as Lord Rogan said that the Prime Minister has announced the biggest increase in defence spending since the Cold War, through this Parliament and the next. And we urge others to do the same. Lord Wargrave made an excellent case for never assuming the public will come with this. We must make the case, with the argument explained, we will trust in the ability of politics to deliver. This is in no small task but one which I think every Speaker today thinks we have a responsibility to undertake full stop in order to make this commitment in our fiscal rules, we have had to lower our spending on international spending.

There is not a decision that the government takes lightly. It is not one we relish and it is a great responsibility that I know a win the public's trust. I will be coming back to this House soon to update Parliament on the early choices we have made and I would echo the pride that the Foreign Secretary and the Prime Minister have expressed in our record on international development. As I did in my earliest meetings with key partners, from the World Bank and the International Committee of the Red Cross.

Between the late 1990s and the early 2010s, the world made headway, in a lifting hundreds of millions of people out of poverty. Indeed, throughout recent decades, our work has shown that the UK can address global challenges from health, to migration, boost prosperity at home and across the globe. Improve the lives of the world's most vulnerable people. I have seen this for myself, my visits to our partners overseas and we continue to play a hugely important role. In everything from reaching tens of millions of people, with immunisation, including a polio vaccination in Gaza.

To working alongside partners in the Global South to secure reforms at the bigger multilateral development banks. Tens of billions over the next 10 years to stop at no cost to donors, get more of it flowing to those in greatest need across everything from education to resilience. For all these reasons and more, this government remains committed to spending on Official Development Assistance, 0.7 to percent of gross national income when the fiscal conditions allow. I can assure the noble Lords of this.

I welcome his challenge and are not that robust exchanges across this that robust exchanges across this chamber. We were urged to continue to face the world, especially the Commonwealth and to reset our relationship with Europe. The government accepts this advice. We continue to provide assistance to Ukraine and Gaza and in Sudan and remain committed to tackling climate change. And to multinational efforts on global health. We need to work harder than ever to strengthen partnerships, in the future. We can carefully review what will work.

In all we do, we want the public to take pride in our work overseas. The benefits of it in their lives, have confidence that we are using their money wisely and in ways that match their sense of decency and our moral obligations to the world's poorest people. We know that so many countries share our ambitions for growth and opportunity. For most of them ages and no longer the most important part of that. To say nothing of the metabolism that is all too often gone with it.

Lord Howe's introduction to this debate about the importance of respect, listening, partnership is a timely and very wise. So we are focusing on genuine, respectful partnerships. More effective in creating security, growth and investment in jobs and opportunities, here and at home and around the world. Better suited to fusing local knowledge with our greatest strengths, in the city of London, to science, technology, innovation, arts and culture. The world-class expertise, right across the UK and much has been said about soft power.

I do also, I think somebody said they wonder about the phrase. I wonder about the phrase. It is a bit, we are going to do a sop are new isn't the best -- We are going to do a soft power on you. We are looking to the future, from auditing our relationship with China to be setting our relationships with the global South. The Foreign Secretary hosted the Indian Foreign Minister this week and renounced the reopening of TA negotiations and the Foreign Secretary's dialogue with the Nigerian Foreign Minister demonstrated our partnership on mutual security and migration.

We are making the most of the valuable role the UK has to play, proving through our actions that we are responsible, a permanent member of the UN Security Council will, committed to national law, the UN Charter and the rules-based trading system. My Lords, keeping our country safe is the first duty of government. We must meet the world, as it is, with an indelible belief that things could be better. We recognise that we do not need to balance the compassion, foreign internationalism with the essential nationalism.

We must respond to the urgent challenges before us. That is the job of any government. And despite the hard choices before us, however much we serve, we must make the best of the moment. To give even greater impetus to the important work of international development that is already underway. That is how we bring security, prosperity to people here at home and around the world, in the months and years ahead. As a Lord Howell and Lord Vaizey said, everyone needs a country to love.

And we all love this country and heavy duty to share that love with the world, as a force for good. And as a lord only with the said -- as a Lord Udny-Lister said for prosperity and peace.
15:08
Lord Howell of Guildford Portrait Lord Howell of Guildford (Conservative)
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I want to thank all who have spoken in this debate, including the frontbenchers. It is frankly the kind of debate that one only needs to read, rather than just pick up as it goes along. Not least because of the great deal of inevitably, a very tight time limit, it is in a shorthand. There are all sorts of issues behind the issues that need examining and thinking much more carefully. Talking to successive generations as to why we need to organise things, exactly this way, in this.

I never fully understand the answers. I'm sure they are terribly sound. We all know a lot more time to formulate after a four more time to formulate after a four minute speech than it does to make a 10 minute, or to our speech. There we are, it is something we have to live with. I think it would benefit us all. Thank everybody for picking up one of the themes I touched on. Commonwealth friends and the Commonwealth network. The NATO network that is emerging.

Very different organisation of the past, thanks to productivity and international communication, on a scale never before known. And just briefly, one or two colleagues touched on something I did not touch on in my speech, which was of course the Triton program and whether our deterrent would be effective, if the worst came to the worst, as it might. And we had to go it alone without American support. I consulted, listen to Sir Lawrence Freedman, a very wise man about whether we could manage.

I heard him say on the radio that yes, say on the radio that yes, cautiously we could manage. We could get through and we could operate in that way. That is a slight reassurance. I hope it is not necessary. We hope that America remains the lovely America, the beautiful country world loves. Just at the moment it doesn't look as though they are striking quite the right mitt to keep the attraction they have in the past. Thank you to

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all and I baked. The question is this motion be agreed to? As many as are of that agreed to? As many as are of that opinion, say, "Content". Of the contrary, "Not content". The contents have it. Perhaps a short contents have it. Perhaps a short pause before the next business, so that entrances and exits can take

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Motion Motion for
15:11
None Portrait Debate: The role of integration in reducing barriers to community cohesion in the United Kingdom
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Motion for debate Motion for debate role Motion for debate role of integration barriers to communicate
15:12
Baroness Verma Portrait Baroness Verma (Conservative)
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cohesion in the UK.

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Today's debate is about ensuring

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Today's debate is about ensuring At why integration, in parts of our country is not working, or happening and how these impact on the abilities of our communities to generate an environment of bringing generate an environment of bringing together respect and a longing for shared purposes that are a benefit shared purposes that are a benefit to all. I look forward to the contributions of the noble Lords, but particularly to the maiden speeches of the noble Lords, Lord speeches of the noble Lords, Lord Razzall and Lord Rook.

I wanted to start my contribution by saying a little bit about my family's experience of contribution to the country a call home. As I started to write the speech, I felt that this whole speech was becoming more and more about my family. But I think it more about my family. But I think it is important that I do this journey, just to give you a perspective from somebody who has been here all their lives, bar nine months. My family's heritage is Indian.

Heritage that is a strong and integral part of who I am. That of many of the nearly 2 million people that live in our country are Indian heritage, living here. My family story starts in 1937. When my paternal grandfather, Captain Ma seeing of the pioneers regiment was invited as a guest at the coronation of his Majesty King George the six. Grandfather's service and later my paternal uncle service to the Indian army and the Indian police laid at the heart of the family's duty to their community and countries respectfully.

In 1938, my maternal grandfather arrived in London and after a while and made his home first, for a short time, in Coventry and then established himself, and consequently his himself, and consequently his extended family, to Leicester. As the bombs flattened Coventry and parts of Leicester, he with fellow Indians work to help support the rebuilding of what ever else they rebuilding of what ever else they could do, during those years of war. My grandfather was one of the community and whilst he, of course, experienced forms of discrimination that we cannot imagine today, for example when trying to find rooms to rent.

They would find signs of that? No blacks, Irish or dogs. It had however never deterred him, or his colleagues of their commitment to a country that he loved and invested in. After the war, there was a need to rebuild and the country needed people. He helped Howes and settle over 40 families, however as things return to normality he recognised there was also a need to provide a voice for Indian workers. And with his friends he founded the workers association. To be that bridge that the unions and the employers.

In 1952, my grandfather became the first Asian to open a hosiery factory, in Leicester. Providing employment and supporting the local economy. In 1960, I arrived, with my parents from India, just before my first birthday. I grew up in a challenging Great Britain, for people of colour. The 60s and 70s had seen a big shift in the expectations, from the wider community. During the 60s, it was still relatively few people of colour. I grew up with Irish and Scottish neighbours. So I grew up with the Scotch.

My friends know that I'm not a great curry eater. I grew up with the broth and stews. The street? Immunity my mother who had arrived not speaking any English, learned through the support of that street and how to use the transport systems, get home working, take me a later my scribblings to school and generally become part of school and generally become part of School life teaches you a lot but when you are the only one of two people of colour in a class, it really does teach you a lot more.

It teaches you how to survive, it teaches you how to be strong and resilient, but it also taught me how people would stand up for me, just like I stood up for the Ugandan Asians when they arrived in 1971 to 19 -- 1971 to 1972. Racism really rose quite heavily in Leicester at rose quite heavily in Leicester at that time. But this community did not go backwards, they came forward and they became one of the strongest communities that Leicester has. I also grew up, like many of my background, in parallel lives to what my life was like at home, to what it was like outside.

We had to balance the culture. It was a The expectation from my parents and what my friends expected. They never understood why couldn't go out to dances and two musicals, but they knew that whilst I was at school, I was one of them. All of these things shape -- shaped how I didn't want the community to look like as I grew up. I wanted my children and my friends children to be part of everything, and so I became very involved in the regeneration of Leicester.

In fact, I was then a young person on the advisory group. I was also the adviser to the Leicestershire police when it came to recruitment. And I became a college governor to ensure that students from all backgrounds could actually understand the needs of each other. But even today the left behind communities are the same communities that were there when I was growing up. They are the same communities that were ignored, and that were totally marginalised by the people in power.

Now, those communities were not migrant communities, they were the white working class or workless. And they still remain those communities. And I have said, and I know I have spoken to the noble Lord the Minister about this, that I don't want that divide to get bigger because those are the divisions that create the intolerances and the cohesion that we are seeing in many parts of the country today. -- incohesion. I want AI learning and inclusion for all communities but particularly for those who have been left so behind.

And I will ask the Minister later a couple of questions and that. Segregation in communities creates intolerance, it creates tensions. So I want communities, I want children to be able to engage with everyone. I don't want the mothers of those children in -- excluded from the wider decision- making. I want and I have asked this every time I've spoken on this type of subject, that all people should know how to speak, read and write in English so they are not excluded from decision-making that impacts on their lives.

My Lords, a couple of years ago in Leicester, we had riots. These are caused deliberate disharmony and they were not by the people of Leicester. People had come in to deliberately distort what was going on in Leicester. And it is only with the strength of the women actually of those communities coming together that really stopped the sort of violence that I have seen for such a long time in Leicester. But the incorrect reporting and the misinformation that was around on social media just flamed up the distrust between all of those communities, and I'm glad that they are now working to make sure that never happens again.

My Lords, what we say and how we say it matters. Especially if you are public facing. And whilst I certainly do not advocate for censorship around an honest debate about the issues and concerns that impact on the lives of all citizens, the need to feel free to challenge what is negatively affecting our lives, it is also critical that if we know that every action has a reaction. Over the last 64 years of my life, I, as you can imagine, have been a citizen of a country that has seen so many changes around us.

When people ask me how British do I feel, my response is always, I am British. I don't need to demonstrate I am British. But, my Lords, my children don't even think they are British. They think the English. They were born here. My siblings were born here. They see themselves as English. So, my Lords, I don't want to constantly defend the fact that I am a truly loyal citizen to the country that is my home in the country I love. But we cannot have this debate if we cannot honestly challenge why people think that we are different.

So, my Lords, whilst we have a country that is full of brilliant traditions and norms that we are all a part of, were also enraged with the cultural norms that I've also grown up with and I know that my family and friends share and enjoy with us whenever we have Diwali or the festival of colours. If you are in India, trust me, you cannot walk anywhere without having colour thrown at you. It is about the reminder of how colours come together to bring joy.

My mum is 85 years old. She instilled in us the need to be active learners. I will be eternally -- eternally grateful to her for her wisdom. I suspect she raised a few eyebrows in her youth when her beehive -- with her beehive hairstyles and ankle grazing trousers were not the norm among Asian ladies. I have tried to wear a sari elegantly. I cannot. I stride but I do try. In all of the things I've grown up and seen, the one thing that I do know is that I can love both cultures as much is each other.

And, my Lords, I resorted back to my own personal experiences because as a child who saw racist attacks to the incredible solidarity of my neighbours and friends, I fear the debate we are having today are negating all the progress we've made, and we have made a lot. But it is so easy to lose that progress if we descend back into our groups, if we don't feel like we belong. So if I may, I would just put a couple of questions to the noble Lord the Minister.

I would like to ask him what measures he has or his government has in place to ensure that where there are large communities that are from economically deprived backgrounds, what are they doing to ensure that digital skills and skills generally are part of the focus of the government's drive to ensure that we are inclusive of everyone, regardless of their faith, the ethnicity. And, my Lords, with the Minister ensure that English is available to everyone? That women particularly from migrant communities are able to engage because the biggest fear I have is that they are not always able then to access the services that are rightly theirs to access.

And, my Lords, what he and the government carefully look at how we build our economies around people's strengths and not their weaknesses? Because, if we don't, my Lords, we will go back into an us and them a situation that I grew up with in the 60s -- us and them. And I can tell you, my Lords, it was not a nice time to be a child where we are -- when you were being pitted against each other. I can't because I do not see colour.

I want my children to grow up seeing children as children. I want adults to treat other people's faiths with respect. The most important thing is we need to all be stakeholders in our communities and if we cannot do that, sadly, those that have large, divisive, loud

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voices will win the argument. The question is that this motion

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be agreed to. It's a privilege to speak after

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It's a privilege to speak after

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It's a privilege to speak after the Noble Baronesses and may I add that since joining Your Lordships' House, I have only met kindness from your Lordships, officials, staff and your Lordships, officials, staff and police. I'm grateful to Black Road, the web steam, the conveners of this debate, the other conveners of this debate and to pioneering peers without whom I would not be here. -- the Whips team. On my first day, I
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Lord Raval Portrait Lord Raval (Labour)
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rushed through the automated gates, rushed through the automated gates, initiating a shutdown. Innocence, initiating a shutdown. Innocence, your Lordships are keepers as well. If I were to distil my purpose, it would be this, that after three would be this, that after three decades in leadership development across business, academia and faith, I see myself as a doorkeeper, not barring access but opening doors. As a wayward teenager, it is I who a wayward teenager, it is I who needed doors opened.

I raced ahead in some areas and lagged in others. I could have spent life dodging openings. Mentors changed everything. They help me find my path into Sheffield University, then Cambridge and then Maryland. I worked at reform centres to unlock your potential. Two decades and, I saw deep barriers trapping talent, not least in white working class areas. And if you can inspire a plain speaking teen in their free time, you can handle anyone, perhaps even your Lordships.

I learned that the political scientist Robert Putnam was right. Unattended diversity can fracture communities. But with intent and leadership, it forges strengths. Inclusion is not passive, it takes effort. My parents arrived in Britain in the 1970s. Not with nothing but with capital and a commitment to service. They ran a family business. 30 years of dawn 10 hour shift. Yet my mum still cooked a fresh meal every night. That kind of sacrifice not only sustains families, it builds nations.

Their values were inherited from my grandparents. At 15, my grandfather left India as a cook's assistant, alone and impoverished. He endured unimaginable hardship and yet rose to become general manager of a large export business with my indomitable grandmother beside him. Their journey are testament to resilience and the structures that foster it. Here, economic opportunity is shaped by global dynamics, as was underscored so eloquently in the previous debate. As Chair of Labour Indians, I note -- I know that since the maiden voyage nearly a century ago, India is rising as an economic and cultural powerhouse.

A strong partnership is key to UK security, education, health, climate goals and growth. I stand for a new silk Road linking India to the Middle East and extending beyond continental Europe extending beyond continental Europe Fade to Kiva cohesion. Even the smallest has a place of worship. And faith remains crucial to many. Resisting the force closure of a major Hindu shrine, gifted by beetle, George Harrison. This was not just door closure, and attempted erasure.

Giving a life affinity to other persecuted minorities. Age 16 that injustice led me to join Labour. The 1997 Tony Blair's government rescinded the decision of safeguarding a monument of spirituality, inclusion and service. I protested outside the council. How extraordinary to now stand before you as a Lord Raval. The place I call home with my wife Lucy and our daughters are no doubt watching at home. Cohesion doesn't happen by accident. That is why in 2007 my family, with a stellar faculty we served their communities, while building deep cross faith relationships.

Fostering trust, while disagreeing well. Our 2,500+ alum Nye lead critical work. From responding to Grenfell, faith coalitions remain, long after statutory services withdrew. The coordinating action, during Covid-19 and other crisis. We have shared this British model with international friends, committed to enabling coexistence. Most recently in Bahrain to foster exciting a cross-border collaboration. Two years ago I'd share the Prime Minister and opposition in a meeting with faith leaders. His commitment to religious pluralism instead fast. I thank him, along with my noble supporters, the brilliant Lord Mendelsohn and Khan and my noble friend, Lord Brooke who is maiden speech I eagerly await.

For their dedication to people of all faiths and none -- Lord Rook. Leave your worship with a pundit, whose teachings have shaped millions worldwide, including my family. Literally the door to the onward. He taught our world is one single family. That is integration. Not just living together but belonging to each other. Cohesion, My Lords is the bond that strengthen society. I look forward to working with your Lordships, my fellow doorkeepers and to fortify us, thank you.



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I thank the noble Lady Baroness Verma of introducing this debate and for her excellent, thoughtful and wonderfully thoughtful speech. I also welcome the noble Lord, Lord Rook I look forward to his maiden speech. An extraordinary honour speech. An extraordinary honour befalls me to congratulate that never Lord Raval on his outstanding maiden speech. Which illustrates that the important and powerful way
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Lord Mendelsohn Portrait Lord Mendelsohn (Labour)
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that the important and powerful way in which he will flourish in the work of this House. I had the privilege to be one of the noble Lord, Lord Raval's introducers. He is a remarkable individual. He remains attached to the institution of Cambridge today, serving as a member of the faculty of the School of Divinity. He had a very distinguished business career, as an organisational consultant and chose to use the skills he had honed in the private sector to give back to the community.

He created faith in leadership, a UK-based organisation which now operates internationally, to create an inclusive community of private and public leaders, to work together for the benefit of the community. The philosophy is and I quote the noble Lord himself, "Faith leadership is the resource for the humanising and reconciling the world we live in. " I theme we fully appreciate in his words today and for which he was also recognised for the honour of an OBE in 2018. He has worked tirelessly with the emerging and existing leadership, on the faith communities, in our country and is highly regarded and trusted by all.

He is also a very proud member of the British Indian community and steeped in understanding of the powerful and valuable cultures and diaspora communities. The late great Rabbi Hugo green ceased to say that they were harmonises and polarisers. We are grateful to have one of our country's great harmonises now gracing our benches and clearly a great contribution. This is an important debate and I look forward to all the contributions. I will just raise two areas and raise with the Minister.

One of the great challenges we have is how we protect and develop our diverse and cohesive democracy. I challenge which is not unique to our country. It is, regrettably clear, the open and inclusive approaches to society do not automatically lead to these outcomes. Indeed we must always work at it to protect our democracy and building resilience. The challenges we face cover many areas. How we build a society of common values of rights and responsibilities and how we draw in a different communities and underpin the economic and social needs.

Secondly, we must also make sure that the integration of communities and how they develop and understand and achieve their place, in society. Thirdly, we must bear down on extremism and especially on those whose actions tear the fabric of the cohesive society. Where their perceptions of the exercise of their rights, not just on the minds of the well-being of another community, but stretches the culture of democracy. Where these issues arise and a number of agencies are part of the country involve providing illustration of the importance to success, any of this work, to make sure that any of this work has, will be in the capacity of the government, to join this all up.

I believe this subject is worthy of being one of the missions of this government. Of course I am not asking it to add to the existing five they are already focusing on. But I do stress that this does need the whole of government approach. I appreciate the noble of the Minister is from one department. I'm not seeking at this time to stretch out any description for him. I know that from many of the experiences of many, in this chamber, they will know that he is very active in strongly engaged with many members of this House on these issues.

I would be very grateful if the Minister my outline how the Department is working with others, on this task, across government. And in particular I would be grateful to know about how the Home Office and his department are working together, especially as there seems to be a slight change in how those arrangements are connecting all the parts that are required, for effective work on community cohesion.

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Secondly, Sara Khan produced a report for the government on social report for the government on social cohesion and co- coherence, which covered many important areas. The covered many important areas. The recommendations were very broad and dealt with a number of different dealt with a number of different agencies and parts of government. I would be very grateful if the level of the Minister would give the House of the Minister would give the House some update on their thoughts on whether this government has reviewed this report? Whether they are going to make a substantive comment on it? to make a substantive comment on it? And if they are going to support its recommendations? In particular, would be very grateful if you could make comments on the recommendations of an Office for Social Cohesion and Democratic Resilience.

On the need for a five year strategy on this and for the creation of a cross Whitehall cohesion response unit.

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I feel the sense that the noble Lord, Lord Raval is among a good crowd of harmonises, in the chamber crowd of harmonises, in the chamber today. I hope that the noble Lord the Minister will take on board many the Minister will take on board many of the matters that are raised, in this place and many of the this place and many of the observations they have. And that the Government will strongly reflect on it and know that within this chamber it and know that within this chamber there are a strong group of people, who are keen to work together, in a cohesive way in a building resilience and cohesion in our society.



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I thank Baroness Verma for securing this particular debate. And securing this particular debate. And I am delighted to listen to the maiden speech from Lord Raval and maiden speech from Lord Raval and the same from Lord Rook later on. I start with Harold Wilson, the Prime start with Harold Wilson, the Prime Minister in 1965, who appointed the Archbishop of Canterbury, under Archbishop of Canterbury, under Michael Ramsey, National Commonwealth immigrants. This was Commonwealth immigrants. This was set up to provide the integration of the minority community, in British society.

To a great extent, much of the good efforts and good race relations has its roots in local
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Lord Dholakia Portrait Lord Dholakia (Liberal Democrat)
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churches, in the early days and this continues, even today. So I thank them for what they are doing. Being them for what they are doing. Being British is about trying. I mentioned British is about trying. I mentioned before, what it is when we talk about being British. Being Jewish is about being British. Being Jewish is about driving in a German car, for a about driving in a German car, for a Belgian beer. Then travelling home, getting a curry and watching an American show on a Japanese TV.

And American show on a Japanese TV. And the most greatest thing of all, suspicious of anything foreign. My Lords, this is arguably a confused debate about identity in this country. From the seven years we have debated, my colleague and politic of identity. In all political uncertainties of left and right, unless we are cut in modern Britain, a politician, competing to be tough on crime and best at promoting community cohesion. A concept in my mind lacking strategic thought and it appears in the desert sands.

Research for shared value of what we call English, or British. Many have argued that it is important to articulate a shared sense of national identity, in contemporary conditions of flux and change. If so, how can we concerned this with diversity, openness and pluralism of belief and practice. Fixed notions of a shared identity, even if they could be agreed upon. Unless necessary, promoting individual identity, pluralism and general multiculturalism. Add to this the mix of awards in Russia and Ukraine, with the growth of terrorism and the death of multiculturalism, which according Lee's to separateness and different communities....

In The Guardian, in a gambit of hysteria, while politicians and some media have turned against again and again on small minorities. First prodding them and then pounding them, representing the single biggest problem in a national life. Of course it is a difficult time, in which to have the kind of calm and decent discussion about identity, these politicians claim to want. It is there for this reason I am in this debate. Confusion is not only about identity, but what it is that we are trying to talk about, when we talk about race, religion, identity and defining a multiculturalism, in all mixed...

Some politicians have claimed that some Muslim women wearing a veil represented a visible statement of difference. There is a sensible debate about such issues. When an individual or group identity infringes on other people's lives, or liberties. Do we really believe that a wearing of the veil in the process of community cohesion is that the advancement of an integrated society. At the forefront of legislative and other machinery, to establish equality, for all its citizens and a strong new legislation disability, gender, age, faith and sexual orientations.

New emphasis on protecting and promoting good relations between different groups. However confusion still groups. However confusion still remains, whether it is how to study society, towards a common identity. To unpick the confusion, we need to analyse the current state of multi- ethnic Britain. We need to examine changes of all of our communities. For example, how many talk about... How many talk about ethnic minorities. Since when did we take into account the largest ethnic group, in Britain, in our mixed race is our mixed race community.

We also need to consider post-war migration and the processes of globalisation, which crosses the geographical boundaries of our nation. In conclusion, the true multiculturalism means that equality and diversity and it is at the core of everything we do. From government, to corporate responsibility. It means taking a much more positive stance towards combating racism and discrimination. Are we really tackling, in all aspects of society, social, economic and civic participation? Positively valuing, not barely tolerating, the contribution of different cultures and perspectives and treating them with respect.

We must accept that the framework of human rights provide a context, in which rights of anyone group and rights of wider of anyone group and rights of wider

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I thank the Noble Baronesses lady

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I thank the Noble Baronesses lady Varma for securing this debate. I would also like to congratulate the would also like to congratulate the noble Lord on his very insightful maiden speech and look forward to his contributions later on. Diverse his contributions later on. Diverse committees are enriching an engine for innovation and progress. But diversity is a double edged sword. diversity is a double edged sword. If we are not coherent as diverse communities, society becomes fragile. We have witnessed political division widening and trust in government institutions widening -- fraying.

Misinformation, international conflict, import from countries where some of the communities hail from. We have witnessed a lot of pride in place and communities, antisocial behaviour and rioting. Lack of appropriate policy responses to manage diversity over the last 6+ decades have also contributed to Balkanisation of communities. There is widening differences and hindering integration. For example, community based funding incentive area-based funding after the uprisings of 1982 is just one example. These contributed to one community being set against another, fuelling resentment and driving the disenchanted to the other left behind groups in the hands of populace.

Given the complex nature of diversity today, multifaceted interventions are needed to build
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Baroness Prashar Portrait Baroness Prashar (Crossbench)
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trust, break barriers and by -- bind communities and society together. This requires a sense of inclusion, trust in the state and broad trust in the state and broad framework of shared values which holds society together and enables holds society together and enables different perspectives to be explored. Integration is a foundational step towards community foundational step towards community and social cohesion. But it is not enough. Many worthy efforts have enough. Many worthy efforts have been made to enhance such connections, to build trust and connections, to build trust and understanding and create meaningful dialogue to break barriers.

But, as I said, these are necessary but not enough. What we need is a national and local strategies for integration and community cohesion. And these must be accompanied by ensuring that economic growth and prosperity benefits all as well as opportunities which ensure social mobility and Baroness Verma mentioned AI and lessening digital exclusion. This should not sit with one department in the centre. For any policy to be successful, needs to straddle many aspects of public policy.

It requires joined up, political policies both horizontally and vertically, that is connecting with local government and civil society organisations. And these need to include education, learning opportunities, tackling school exclusions, thoughtful housing planning, building formal and informal social infrastructure. In other words, whole press are of policies that are linked -- a whole policies that are linked -- a whole regular -- a whole L. -- plethora. We need to go back to the notion of citizens engagement which provide a meaningful voice, agency and brings people together around issues which are common to all and we want greater use of citizen assemblies to build trust, cohesion and culturally -- on culturally contentious issues.

This is a space where concerns can be discussed openly with tolerance and understanding, a place where legitimate democratic debate can take place and helps to deepen democratic behaviour. Devolution is a good vehicle for this, with improved accountability among newly empowered leaders. Greater involvement of citizens at local level should be made mandatory. Above all, my Lords, we need strong and purposeful leadership across government. Joined up responses and linkup strategy are also needed. Not just disjointed policies that are brought out only in response to crises or when crises occur.

I was interested in the government's statement on 4 March, and the plan for neighbourhoods, which is very encouraging. Making it a reality will require across government engagement and it would be good to hear what the plans are for cross government working. It will require perseverance, imagination and courage to think the unthinkable and challenge some of the conventional wisdom. It would be very helpful to hear from the noble Lord the Minister how this work will be measured, how lessons will be learned and how good practice will be disseminated.



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My Lords, I very sincerely thank Baroness Verma for securing this important debate. I congratulate important debate. I congratulate Lord Raval on his excellent maiden speech and I look forward to the maiden speech of Lord Rooke. I want
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Lord Bishop of Lichfield Portrait The Lord Bishop of Lichfield (Bishops)
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maiden speech of Lord Rooke. I want to thank Lord Rook for all the work that he has done over the years with the churches, including the Church of England, in which he is an ordained priest and communities of other faiths. I commend his commitment to the important role commitment to the important role that faith plays in a country. Roaming our country. We only need to look at the events of last summer to see the importance and need for cohesive communities.

The riots showed how easily facility can escalate when groups of people who live alongside one another, yet are divided by barriers of fear and mistrust. A cohesive community is not one in which every person is the same. It is one where they each share a sense of belonging, despite their differences. They may have different cultures, believes or religions, but each person feels they are respected and valued. I was deeply moved by Baroness Verma's account of her schooling in Leicester, a city which I know and love well, and where we brought up our own children.

I think probably two decades after the Noble Baronesses, my son Frank was the only white child in his entire school year, also in Leicester. And, like the noble Baroness, he experienced nothing but friendship, respect and support from his schoolmates who were almost all of South Asian heritage. It is relationships that are at the heart of bridging the social and cultural gaps that can divide our communities. And while we can and must speak of policy at a national level, integration work is best done by those on a local level who can listen to and understand the needs of their communities.

Local authorities, alongside the voluntary community and faith sector, are critical to integration, to bringing people together to build trust and understanding through creating space for cross-cultural interaction, interfaith dialogue and friendships of course -- across a difference. I welcome the Community Recovery Fund that the government has made available to local communities impacted by last summer's writes. In our dioceses -- in our diocese, this has empowered local groups to develop projects that strengthen bonds between people of all backgrounds and ages.

The same fund has made possible also in Archdiocese -- in our dioceses campaign which works with residents to explore what must be done to make the city a place where everyone feels welcome. And while this funding in response to the riots is necessary and valuable, strategic, long-term approaches are crucial to ensure meaningful and lasting impacts. I'm glad that the government has launched a communities and recovery steering group to oversee a new approach to community cohesion. I recognise the terms of reference and the membership of that group have just been announced this week.

I ask the noble Lord the Minister when he might now more about the details of the work that that group will oversee. Education is also a vital part of the successful integration and building community cohesion. And in particular, religious education in schools plays an important role in enabling understanding of different cultures, religions and worldviews, equipping pupils from an early age with the knowledge and the tools to understand and thrive in a multicultural society. However, RE is too often neglected as a subject, with pupils frequently being taught by teachers with no qualifications and the subject.

I therefore ask the government what steps they are taking to increase the number of teachers who are properly trained to teachers who are properly trained to teachers who are properly trained to deliver our E's -- i.e. -- RE. We are living in a time of conflict. We do not want that global situation to be the case locally. Let this be an opportunity to build trust and to seek understanding, let us foster communities that are strong and resilient where everybody can feel

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they belong. My Lords, it is an honour to

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My Lords, it is an honour to address this house today. I am grateful to the Baroness Verma for this debate and for her inspiring this debate and for her inspiring introduction and personal story. In this, my maiden speech, I wish to this, my maiden speech, I wish to thank those who have supported me over many years, from my family, friends and colleagues. Thanks also friends and colleagues. Thanks also go to my supporters, with whom I've go to my supporters, with whom I've enjoyed considerable collaboration.

I first began volunteering for Lady Sherlock over 12 years ago. The thought then that we might sit together on these benches was implausible at best. Her friendship and guidance have been invaluable to
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Lord Rook Portrait Lord Rook (Labour)
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me. Working at the Good Faith Partnership, I have spent much of Partnership, I have spent much of the last decade addressing issues of community cohesion. These early weeks of induction into Your Lordships' House have served as a Lordships' House have served as a timely reminder of five critical lessons on social integration. The first lesson. Integration does not happen by accident. It requires a welcoming community. We work with the commission chaired by the Right the commission chaired by the Right Reverend Prelate to host the Welcome Campaign.

Working with community groups, charities, businesses and local authorities, Warm Welcome provides over 1000 warmth -- warm spaces for disadvantaged individuals throughout the UK. Now, well the House of Lords is not yet registered as a Warm Welcome centre, possibly given the heating situation a good thing, members and staff have provided the warmest of welcomes to myself and other new members in recent weeks. I am particularly grateful to my noble friends Baroness Smith of Basildon and Lord Kennedy of Southwark and noble Lords across the size for your warm welcome.

My thanks also to Black Rod, House of Lords Act, the police and security teams, the hospitality team and come of course, the doorkeeper's. When a community works as hard to welcome newcomers, integration becomes so much easier. So, we come to our second lesson on integration. Integration is always a two-way street. It requires real effort from both newcomers and welcome errors. As an Anglican priest, I know what it is to need regular mercy and instruction. I am thankful for Grace and for kind and gentle corrector -- for Grace were required and for kind and gentle required and for kind and gentle correction when needed.

On my second day in Your Lordships' House, one of the doorkeeper's asked me, what musical instrument do you play? At first I wondered whether this was a question asked of every member. However, I soon realise that the doorkeeper had read my introduction papers and noticed that my alma mater is the Royal College of Music. It turns out that the doorkeeper and I both played the trombone, noble instrument indeed but your Lordships nothing to fear. I retired many years ago due to letters from music lovers everywhere.

The doorkeeper's initiative, however, serves to illustrate the third lesson. Integration happens communities take initiative and get to know their newest members. I have twice served and been seconded to the office of the Labour leader as a faith in civil society adviser. Most recently under Sir Keir Starmer and under Ed Miliband. This is where I first had the pleasure to work with Lord Raval and I thank him for his kind words earlier and I'm certainly looking forward to working with him in this house in the future.

Following the election in 2015, Europe face the devastating fallout of the escalating conflict in the Middle East and Africa. We were facing the largest refugee crisis since World War II. We were overwhelmed here at Westminster by the public response. Institutions and individuals were demanding action. This leads us to the first lesson of integration. It requires the investment of many Support the co-creation of the Support the co-creation of the I am ever grateful I am ever grateful to I am ever grateful to Lord I am ever grateful to Lord Dubs I am ever grateful to Lord Dubs and the noble Lord Harrington, for the vital role they played in securing and establishing this initiative.

As a result, local communities invested considerable time and resource, welcoming and integrating hundreds of vulnerable families. A few years later, again, amidst tragic circumstances, that the model enabled UK citizens to welcome over 200,000 Ukrainians. Through the Homes for Ukraine Scheme. I grew up in Portsmouth, where my family were part of the cell C Salvation Army. A Salvation Army upbringing brought certain obligations. I have already made mention of the trombone claim. Then there is the marching, parading up and down the seafront, to open- air church services was up with the marching comes the praying, in particular in teenage years praying that your schoolmates don't sponsor marching up and down the seafront to open-air church services.

Above all, with the Salvation Army becomes the commitment to serving the lost and the least. My final lesson on integration is the lesson I learnt first of all. Communities become more cohesive when we include and integrate our most vulnerable neighbours. I have chosen to be Lord In 1993, then our Lady reckon I moved into the area to volunteer at a Salvation Army youth project, working with disadvantaged teenagers, in reins park. The youth club grew into a community centre.

That community centre became a church and a decade later, among other notable achievements, that church was privileged to welcome one of the first families of Syrian refugees, through the community sponsorship scheme. On my way to your Lordships' House, I passed the home of their family lives to this very day. I thank God for the many who work to welcome and integrate them and what is more, for the different ways that this one family has contributed to our community. Following violent disturbances in many towns and cities last summer there has been much discussion about the importance of integration and cohesion.

So how do we build cohesive communities? And a welcoming country? In response, we would do well to heed the welcoming example of this House and relearn the lessons that lead to faster and full integration. We must remember that integration doesn't happen by accident, it is a two-way street, it requires that the initiative an investment of the many and relies upon our commitment to include those that are too often forgotten and ignored. I thank Baroness Verma, again, for raising this discussion and look forward to using my seat, place and voice, to contribute to this and vital consultations in days

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to come. My Lords, can I start by

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My Lords, can I start by congratulating Baroness Verma on a wonderful introduction to today's debate. And as a Scot who prefers debate. And as a Scot who prefers curry to stew in broth, I'm quite curry to stew in broth, I'm quite happy to swap. It is a real pleasure happy to swap. It is a real pleasure to follow Lord Raval and Lord Lord Brooke's rate and speeches. -- Lord Rook. Lord Brooke and I have known our families for more than two decades now.

We have lived much of that time, within half a mile, a mile of each other. As a Lord Brooke touched on, in south-west London. Our children went to the same local community, primary school. And secondaries together. They have now gone off in their own directions and gone off in their own directions and I am sure Julie is watching, if he is not here, from the state and I'm sure the rest of your family are here with you. What an excellent maiden speech.

Community and
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Lord McNicol of West Kilbride Portrait Lord McNicol of West Kilbride (Labour)
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integration, as you have heard, as both Lord Rooks passion, as well as both Lord Rooks passion, as well as his life's work. If I was to pick out a few words to describe Lord Brooke, to those in your Lordships' House who do not already know him. I House who do not already know him. I would choose a theologian, political activist and interfaith campaigner. activist and interfaith campaigner. An interesting mix. And over the An interesting mix. And over the last few years Lord Brooke has served as the faith and the civil society adviser to both the Labour Party and to this current leader and previous leaders.

Following the recent election, he continues to advise both the party and the Labour governments. And alongside this, he has a broad portfolio of ministry combining new projects, good-faith partnerships, alongside research, teaching and assignments. Many have known and seen Lord Rook around, in the advice and support he has provided, for my noble friend, Baroness Sherlock. Probably a little Baroness Sherlock. Probably a little less known is his work on refugees. He touched on just one of the aspects, at the end, with the local Syrian family.

Lord Rook founded, Reset communities and refugees. He is an international consultant for global refugees and founded the RAMP Project. He is an excellent addition your Lordships' House macro and will bring a wealth of experience to these benches, in his own right. Ross, welcome. Turning to today's debate, communicating cohesion as we have heard is not merely a social licensing. It is one of the cornerstones of our society. Fostering a sense of belonging, of mutual respect and shared values, amongst often diverse communities.

Across the globe, we see isolationism, protectionism and narrow self-interest, leaping up the political agenda. And it was a through integration that we can bridge many of the gaps, between different groups. Ensuring that everyone has an equal opportunity to thrive and contribute to the rich tapestry of British life. And as we navigate the complexities of modern society, it is crucial that we recognise that integration is not just a one-way process, as we have already heard.

It requires effort and commitment, from both established communities and newcomers. The U.K.'s integrated community strategy, launched in 2018, established, emphasised, sorry, this appointment by calling for a whole of government approach to integration, as a Lord Mendelsohn touched on, in his comments earlier. Working across government, with local authorities and civil societies, to address the specific challenges in different areas. This strategy acknowledges that successful integration depends on fostering meaningful interactions, between people from different backgrounds.

Promoting shared values, such as democracy, free speech and mutual respect. And today, we have heard many of these excellent examples, from the personal stories of Baroness Verma, to my noble friend, Lord Mendelsohn, earlier. The importance of community cohesion cannot be overstated. It is a glue that holds our society together. Allowing us to celebrate our differences on working towards common laws. A leading expert in community cohesion once noted, " Community cohesion is at the heart of all our future policies, our plans in programs.

" This sentiment underpins the critical role that cohesion plays on creating a harmonious and inclusive society. However, despite these efforts, challenges still persist. Social economic deprivation and existing diversity are often cited as predict is of low social cohesion and integration. The 2023/2024 community life survey found that while 81% of adults agreed that people, from different backgrounds, generally got on well, in their local areas, this figure was lower when you look amongst certain ethnic groups and especially across the younger age population.

These disparities highlight the need for a targeted, for targeted interventions. To address the root causes of division. And as the director of the British Future noted, building social cohesion requires a collective effort, from all sectors of society. Including local government, local authorities, voluntary organisations, community and faith groups. This collaborative approach is essential for creating strong, integrated communities, where everyone and all can thrive. Community cohesion is not just a moral imperative. It is an economic and social necessity.

So, in conclusion, by investing in integration initiatives, we can unlock the full potential of our diverse communities. Fostering a society that is more resilient, more prosperous and more just, for all. It is our collective responsibility to ensure that every individual, regardless of their background, feels a sense of belonging and has an equal opportunity to succeed. And let us also remember, that community cohesion itself is a journey, not the destination. It requires ongoing effort, dialogue and mutual understanding.

But the rewards are well worth it. A society, where everyone can live, work and thrive together. United by shared values and common purpose.

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Many congratulations to my noble friend for producing this debate, not for the first time, but it not for the first time, but it matters all the more. How good it is that those in this place continue to revisit the subject of subsequent revisit the subject of subsequent importance. Congratulations and an enormously warm welcome to the maiden speeches. Both magnificent people. I'm delighted they have been brainwashed by Baroness Sherlock, brainwashed by Baroness Sherlock, always someone to be followed of any always someone to be followed of any party or persuasion.

My concern is that we might lose some of the great progress that we have achieved, in this country. Life was a pretty bad in the '60s and 70s. Many court in Lambeth. My family and I have always been out reaches to try and welcome, my in-laws are Hungarian refugees, we had Asians come, we had a Ukraine and a Latvian. It is relatively easy
16:14
Baroness Bottomley of Nettlestone Portrait Baroness Bottomley of Nettlestone (Conservative)
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for us because we do not live on the margins of society and I'm not pretending that those on the margins pretending that those on the margins of society, with jobs and money and more can be so generous spirited. more can be so generous spirited. But when we look at the improvement on women on boards, diverse members on women on boards, diverse members of different communities, on boards. We have done well in this country. We have done well in this country. We need to be aware, the wrecking ball, and afraid of President Trump.

When that crash took place, with the airline and the helicopter. Saying that it was excessive DL I training that had resulted in a federal aviation authority reduced the quality of the people they admitted was frankly deplorable. -- DNI.... It is funny, but it is appalling and we in this country must not remove all the Diversity & Inclusion approaches we have introduced to stop reducing the amount of reporting. Maybe it has gone too far. We talk about ethnicity, we can talk about, we might want to talk about religion, I hope the Minister might comment on that.

We are to logical age any more, but we are allowed to talk about orientation. It is incredibly politically My next point is that we need to have a reality check and I do commend the report on a portrait of modern Britain. It might be that the baroness will talk about this. This is extraordinarily gratifying. Three out of four people believe that children should be taught to be proud of British history, proud I worry we will create division by reinforcing historical prejudices.

We can take pride in inclusive patriotism as others talked about. I want to move on to universities. Without doubt, to echo the words of the noble Bishop, religion can be the elephant in the room. People are uncomfortable talking about it. If you talk to people at universities, they are alarmed about what has happened in terms of religion becoming a to be subject. I was delighted to see a message from William Hague at Oxford University, Larry Kramer, both saying they will not tolerate no-go zones.

There must be free speech, there must be open debate. The reason to tackle these debate. The reason to tackle these We are talking about efforts made to bring together religions. At universities, people come from different parts of the world. And SE was always -- NSE was always a was always -- NSE was always a was always -- NSE was always a Founded in 1980, after the horrors of world wars, to provide critical analysis.

It was to create dialogue rather than disagreement. I must get to my favourite subject, which is working from home. A disaster. I want the whole house to hear. The professor of psychiatry at King's College said that when you're at home, you are miserable and lonely, your prejudices are reinforced, there is no diversity, and it really is a strongly serious situation. We adults come away like going to work. Remember how wretched we were when the House of Lords was not meeting.

Please realise that working from home is going to reinforce stereotypes, prejudices. I commend my noble friend once more. I have plenty more to say.
16:19
Lord Palmer of Childs Hill Portrait Lord Palmer of Childs Hill (Liberal Democrat)
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My Lords, it's a pleasure to follow all of these wonderful speeches. Thanks for Baroness Verma for initiating this debate and for telling us her history. Congratulations to Lord Raval and Lord Rook on their speeches and their entry into the house. I'm sure you will make a great difference to it. This is a very diverse house, and I think in order to qualify to speak at this debate, I ought to have stressed that my mother came from Poland for between words as a teenager.

She married my father who also came from far away, Newcastle. -- I ought to stress that my mother came from Poland between warriors as came from Poland between warriors as a teenager -- wars as a teenager. I was assured that many speakers today would focus on community in relation to cohesion. I will concentrate on how the UK Jewish community fits into this essential task. Were fortunate in the UK and having numerous community organisations, including the Community Security Trust, the Jewish Council and many others.

Sadly, external events can have a significant effect. Since Hamas killed and two hostages in Israel on the seventh killed and two hostages in Israel on 7 October, 2023, there has been a significant division in the UK. These divisions impact on Jewish life, resulting intentions in the workplace, in educational institutions, on our streets, and in communal spaces. There has sadly been a rise in anti-Semitism. Many in the UK Jewish community feel more vulnerable. This is unacceptable. There are no easy answers.

Interfaith initiatives need to be supported. Improving education and what is seen as -- on what is seen as anti-Semitism and how harmful it is in education, on the streets and in the work place. We have to face up to the fact. The news travels faster than the fall. No more so than if that news is false or distorted. And I, once false or distorted. And I, once posted online, soon becomes violent. -- a lie. It is often hard to explain to others that Israel plays an important part in the identity of the UK Jewish community due to religious, cultural, family and economic ties.

It is not anti- Semitic to criticise Israel. After all, Jews and Israelis do it all the time. It is the uncomfortable time. It is the uncomfortable feeling to see the only Jewish state comprising of a population including non-Jews of 9 million, only 9 million, singled out and held to higher standards than other nations. This can be seen in cases with such as the UK local authority support the boycott and divestment campaign. We rarely hear of the 8 million Jews who fled Arab lands to mainly settle Israel.

I think in the main because Israel, as we are trying to suggest today, integrates them into the general populace. There needs to be stronger enforcement against extremism in the charity section which should be stamped on by the Charities Commission. Of course, these forces do not only apply to the UK Jewish community. My Lords, and reflecting on the report on community cohesion between Jewish and Muslim communities, I'm heartened by initiatives such as the U.K.'s largest day of social action which brings together over 50,000 individuals from incredibly diverse backgrounds to engage in charitable activities that strengthen our social fabric.

Notably, in 2024, its theme was Stronger Together, emphasising unity in challenging times. Faith leaders from various traditions collaborated on projects supporting vulnerable families, exemplifying the power of collective action. There is many examples of people living has for premature babies in hospitals in places like Camden. I would like to acknowledge the contributions of many key figures in promoting interfaith relations. I know that the Liberal Democrat leader has been an ardent supporter of mitzvah Day.

The aim is building bridges between communities. Additionally, the all- party Parliamentary group on women and faith have been instrumental in highlighting the vital role of women in fostering interfaith dialogue. We must tackle anti-Muslim hate, anti- Hindu hit, and hate of all sorts. -- Anti-Hindu hate. Basically, what initiatives can we expect from her

**** Possible New Speaker ****

Majesty's government? My Lords and my ladies, I'd like to begin by paying tribute to my to begin by paying tribute to my good friend, the Minister, Lord Khan good friend, the Minister, Lord Khan who is doing a great job. I would also like to congratulate Lord Raval also like to congratulate Lord Raval and Lord Brooke on their wonderful maiden speeches. There are going to make some terrific contributions of this has. And Baroness Verma, thank you so much for securing this important debate and thank you for your very warm and personal opening speech.

It made me think about my own story. A Muslim girl growing up in Coatbridge to Indian Muslim immigrant parents. I've told this immigrant parents. I've told this story before but when my dad first got to Coatbridge as a GP, one of his patients had him, what are you?
16:26
Baroness Hazarika Portrait Baroness Hazarika (Labour)
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And when he asked what they mean, And when he asked what they mean, they said are you are Celtic Muslim or Rangers Muslim? My parents try to or Rangers Muslim? My parents try to make sure that are integrated and learnt the local culture. My mum would drive me to my Koran lessons would drive me to my Koran lessons and then that was followed by Scottish country dancing. I'm not Scottish country dancing. I'm not sure which is more dangerous. sure which is more dangerous.

Stripping the willow is not for the fainthearted. I think of my father who came to this country in the late 1960s. He began his working life in hospital in the rural and was desperately homesick and lonely. -- Wirral. Sister at his work noticed this sad so and demanded he came to her house for Sunday lunch. Audrey took him and his pal under her wing. My dad had never been to a British house. He didn't even know how to use cutlery properly.

Audrey and her family taught them all about British life, and my dad had his very 1st pint under the tutelage of her pint under the tutelage of her And in return, my dad cooked them delicious Indian food and they learned about his life. And they became the best of friends. Audrey became like a grandmother to us. She sadly passed away a few years ago but we are still so close to her children and grandchildren. And that is the essence of integration.

It should be based on human qualities of kindness, curiosity and friendship. So that is the fuzzy, feel good but out of the way. Now, for the other side. I got this email when I first came to this place. I had just done Newsnight during the riots. I will paraphrase but this is the gist of it. Don't kid yourself. For the millions of us who can trace our heritage on these islands back many centuries, unlike you, wheel those and detest you and your kind longer than life itself.

Because of how you have completely destroyed our country. You can fill the streets with uninvited and unwanted migrants, ethnics and left-wing trolls but plenty of us are prepared to die to save our nation and its way of life. But we are not going to die in vain. And don't ever, ever forget that. Long live, Enoch Powell forget that. Long live, Enoch Powell --! It's always good to get some fanmail, isn't it? There are always those who spread hate and feast of division.

International conflicts, particularly what we see in the Middle East, are affecting our shores. We are seeing a rise in anti-Semitism and islamophobia. We on the left are still deeply ashamed that anti-Semitism bloomed under the Labour Party under the last leadership. I would like to personally apologise for that. On the right, we see politicians who today set ridiculous things like you cannot be English if you have a different skin colour or were born to immigrants. I don't share Rishi Sunak's politics by was damn proud to see him become our first British Hindi Prime Minister.

We should be welcoming of people who want to come here, work hard, contribute and be part of our community. We must allow people to have their religious and cultural differences but we also must set clear guardrails about what is expected in our society and what we expect our values to be. We should all care about greater community cohesion and integration. It is better for everybody. Demanding it through humiliation, hatred and inciting violence is not the solution. To go back to my own dear dad was Max Tony, a wee bit of kindness, humour, curiosity and friendship is the way we should all A rather sobering speech from the noble Baroness, which I listened to carefully.

A more political speech my noble friend about her husband's journey. So very uplifting speeches from two maiden speeches which I also enjoyed hearing very much. The absolutely vital nature of what my noble friend has introduced today can be contained in one statistic, which is that last year, in this country, 31% of all children born were born to mothers who were not born in this country. That is the scale of social change that is going on at which the noble Baroness as speech and the other speeches today have to address.

It is not a criticism, it is just noting the rate of change. About five years ago, I chaired a cross-party Select Committee in your Lordship's House on citizens and civil engagement. We had a fairly powerful group, including the two previous Labour secretaries of education. The noble Lord Blunkett and in the noble Baroness Yardley, Morris of Yardley. Many of our findings, I'm afraid, have not fallen fair. And I do hope other noble Minister will see if any of them have a particular application.

I offer just three for debate this afternoon. First, as a committee, we felt there was a need to distinguish between what you might call integration and assimilation. In other words, if you come to this country what you have to give up to be a member of our society, your civic identity. What can you keep? And by keeping, in which our society as a whole, what one might call a social cultural identity. This does not exist in a moral vacuum. There are things that
16:32
Lord Hodgson of Astley Abbotts Portrait Lord Hodgson of Astley Abbotts (Conservative)
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need to be respected. There are red lines that have to be enforced. We have heard some of them, the noble have heard some of them, the noble Lord over here. Baroness Casey gave evidence by committee. I listen to evidence by committee. I listen to what she said. The laws that protect religious minorities are the laws of religious minorities are the laws of that say I am equal to all men. Do not pick the ones you want, it is not a chocolate boy of choice, it is something you have to embrace and if you are uncomfortable with that, I you are uncomfortable with that, I say that is tough.

-- Chocolate box. To tackle these very difficult issues, and won't happen by osmosis, it needs to be taught and taught well. That is why the teaching of citizens education is so very vital. I'm afraid my party did not do well I'm afraid my party did not do well in ferment in introducing this and maintaining it, but I'm also afraid, I have to say to the noble Lord Khan, I'm not sure the government at this present Labour government is doing much better.

There is a persistent conflation between PHS E and citizen education. In reality they have completely different focuses. PHS to see, personal social economic and health education is like me. Citizen education is a light week, the world in which we live. It is important that we maintain that we have a proper teaching of how our society operates and how people can live with it. My third point, about our report, which I was only two words, because both the noble Lord Mendelsohn and Baroness Prashar refer to it, is of the absence of any coordination at all.

In order to make this thing happen you need a Secretary of State. You need someone with power and influence. We have found initiatives like the place, which frankly just ran into the sand. Some of them are good, some of them are bad, but nobody picked up the good ones and develop them. There was no institutional memory developed, at all. That is our report. I wanted now to talk, for a minute and 1/2 about scale. In the last year for which records are available, we gave entry rights at 1.259 million people.

About half a million left, so our population increased by about three quarters of a million. I do have to say, I have some doubts as to whether we can integrate that number successfully. Not just integrate socially, but provide them with an adequate supply of housing, as well as access to health and other social services, not to mention avoiding and damaging our environment, our ecology and our achievement of net zero. And moreover, this is the point in my Baroness Bottomley. To do so without selling short our existing settled population, who of course, 20% of whom now are from minority communities.

They have rights that need protecting. Noble Lord Rooke may think at this point I'm going to start attacking asylum seekers and refugees. Absolutely not. The thing I gave, just 100,000 came from asylum seekers. 7.5%. There is an issue, particular issues raised, but in terms of the numbers, they are virtually irrelevant. The big challenge My Lords comes from British industry and commerce, which is simply cannot wean itself off recruiting overseas, as a default option. The default option of being the phrase of Migration Advisory Committee.

British higher education, which is built a business model around recruiting ever increasing numbers of overseas students. Sometimes, some people would say, at the expense of the education of our settled population. My Lords, of course, to conclude, of course it is vital, everything we're talking about today is absolutely critical. Unless we are prepared to think about that central challenge, how many people can we take income every year, with all the different moral objectives, economic objectives. How can we take it in. If we do not settle for that, always saying, when a friend is saying, all the speeches of her this afternoon I like trying to enter the bath without first turning down the taps.
16:37
Lord Katz Portrait Lord Katz (Labour)
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It is a pleasure to follow on from the noble Lord Lord Hodgson of Astley Abbotts and to hear such excellent maiden speeches from my noble friend, Lord Raval and Lord Brooke. I'm pleased to be there fellow newbie, perhaps I should say Ricky. -- Lord Rook. The contributions and say how much they have the House that I would like to thank Baroness Verma. Observing the holiday of Purim, a hard happy holiday, perfect story for this debate on community cohesion.

It is a story of a young Jewish woman, Esther, integrated into the Persian court, by virtue of becoming Queen and in so doing standing up for her own community overcomes the forces of hatred that seek to rip apart an otherwise cohesive community. I do want to pick up and expand on themes want to pick up and expand on themes raised by both Lord Palmer and Baroness has already occurred, my noble friend, because what has been Broad and well-intentioned debate, I am afraid, My Lords the figures are stark and it suggests that at least some community cohesion is in crisis was not just last month, the Community Security Trust said that 2024 was the second worst year, for anti-Semitism, with more than half as many incidents, again as the next last year, 2 to 2021.

Meanwhile, tell mama which is equivalent work for the Muslim community which we had earlier in question today so that 224 was the worst year for anti-Muslim cases recorded. Driven in no small part, no doubt by the right you have heard about, following Southport last summer. Those rights were instigated by far right anti-Muslim hatred and we know this is nothing new. The far right will always seek to scapegoat the immigrant and the minority group for being different., Mike noble Lords, the far left is also not to blame -- blameless.

Baroness Bottomley not in Tolerance or other intolerance on campus. We have seen their hatred against Jews and regular protest in central London and elsewhere, since 7 October, 2023. This is in deniable, indefensible and it is also a direct attack on community cohesion. Of course, many who march they are solely and rightly to show solidarity with the Palestinian cause. They are joined by those who simply cannot or will not do this without invoking a naked anti-Jewish racism. The organisers of these demonstrations allow this to continue and seemingly a blissful ignorance.

No effect taken to those attending or stewarding, those are marches that the instance placards bearing swastikas intertwined with the Star of David, which equates Zionism with Nazism are simply unacceptable. Protesters may believe, wrongly that chanting from the river to the sea is anti- Semitic. It should simply be enough to know that Jews find it, at the very least objectionable and hurtful. To persuade them to desist. Community cohesion is damaged and one of the country's smallest minority groups, the Jewish community is targeted in this way.

The right to free speech had been banned by Kevin social cohesion. It should be up to the police did certain races behavioural demonstrations, but to those organising them to. As many noble Lords have already observed, integration and cohesion are really just the two sides of the same coin. I was struck by polling from the excellent Hope not hate, in their fear and hope 2024 report, which found that in 2011 only 12% of British people polled had never had any contact with Jews.

Last year, My Lords, this figure had risen to nearly 1/3 of people. The Muslims, the equivalent figure had grown from just 8%, in 2011 to 18 % in 2024. The same trend is true for Hindus and Sikhs macro. For all our interfaith efforts to promote understanding between minorities, it seems we are working in a vacuum when it comes to the wider population. I wonder that trends in education have exacerbated the problem. This is not, My Lords an attack on faith. My daughters attend an excellent Jewish comprehensive, having attended a very mixed community primary.

But the increasing proportion of Jewish kids going to do schools doesn't just risk isolating them, it means that the kids from other backgrounds do not get to meet a Jewish person and in so doing perhaps to dispel some of the awful myths and tropes they may pick up on the internet. This cannot be healthy for our society and not in any of our group's interest. We should all, communities, schools, mitigates against. I was interested in the comments from both the noble Lord, Lord Hodgson and indeed the right reverend Prelate, the Bishop of Lichfield in terms of religious education, civic education and the difference with PHSE and I would be interested to hear the Ministers thoughts on this matter.

This goes to the nub of the problem. When hate rises, it is only natural for communities to hide away. Creating a vicious circle in which harms social cohesion to start my own community has a proud history of integrating into British life, in all its facets, including, in this House. At the risk, My Lords of sounding trite, did we flee ghettos 80 years ago, merely to have to recreate them here. My Lords, the Local Government Association correctly asserted in the Commons at Women and Equalities Committee, cohesion happens locally, or not at all.

And they have a vital role to role in maintaining it. This requires a strong political leadership in town halls. I say this as much to my party as others. Councillors have response abilities for community cohesion. Not for foreign policy. As Baroness Verma said, our words are political leaders, whether in those town halls or indeed in this House matter. Just as much as this means councillors are not grandstanding to local groups and foreign policy. It means avoiding rhetorical rush to the gutter of immigration, here in Westminster.

This approach plays into the worst of hands and only eight of those who risk to divide,

**** Possible New Speaker ****

not unite society. I would like to begin by thanking my noble friend Lady Verma for my noble friend Lady Verma for bringing this very important timely debate before your Lordship's House debate before your Lordship's House this afternoon. I think her own personal testimony got herself to a personal testimony got herself to a very strong start, and set the tone very strong start, and set the tone for an excellent debate. It has also been my great privilege to hear the maiden speeches from both Lord Raval
16:44
Lord McInnes of Kilwinning Portrait Lord McInnes of Kilwinning (Conservative)
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maiden speeches from both Lord Raval and Lord Rook and I am quite sure, like everyone else in the chamber, we look forward to their tremendous contribution they will make your Lordship's House macro, in the coming days, weeks, years and decades hopefully. On a Saturday, my lord, I happened to be in Glasgow, when the first Council organised St Patrick's Day parade was being held in a Glasgow city centre. And it seemed to be a well supported and joyful event. Why My Lords is and that relevant to today's debate? And lazy has Arica has already alluded lazy has Arica has already alluded to this.

It is relevant My Lords because of what the noble Lord, Lord McConnell are the Glenscorrodale has referred to as Scotland's shame, in a sectarian and divided society, in the west of Scotland that has taken almost 150 years to get us to a stage where suspicion and division, between communities is still being overcome. It serves as a warning My Lords as to how difficult and the longevity that these issues can have, to be able to be fixed. The subject is a very sensitive and thought-provoking one.

And especially as someone who would describe myself as a liberal conservative, one that needs to be wrestled with. On the one hand is a liberal and a conservative, I celebrate difference and also respect faith and tradition. I believe in faith schools and the celebration of culture, cultural diversity. There are many people, in this country who do not belong to any community and nor do they have For me, that is actually a great sadness. I apply that equally to people whose families have been for many generations, as well as those who have been here for one generation.

At the same time, as someone who wants to see the UK be a confident, free society, I also believe that there are five important principles that ensure we aspire to be a fully functioning nationstate. Firstly, to succeed in this country, all people from every community should be encouraged and supported to speak English to avoid the very exclusion that Lady Verma mentioned. Secondly, that the law of the land should be applied equally, irrespective of race, sex, religion or any other characteristic.

That rights that protect individuals, whether women's rights, children's rights, rights to free speech, rates the property, rights to free election are applied to every UK citizen. Number four, that there should be a national narrative that we can all engage with, just as every other successful country does. And I think that is inclusive patriotism that lady Bottomley has already mentioned. Living in the UK has to be about more than just being domiciled here and being able to make money here.

And finally, the state has responsibility to ensure that its population from every community has the opportunity to excel. But importantly, that life cannot be isolated within a particular communities. Especially as young people grow. Suspicion and distrust so often come from a lack of mixing at a young age of young children. And I'm sad to say that major obstacle to some of these five principles being implemented has been an excess of cultural cringe from many who would consider themselves to be strong supporters of integration and cohesion.

That it is easier to spend huge amounts on translation rather than English classes. That it is outdated and cringeworthy to try to celebrate what makes the UK a great and distinct country. In an area of law that political correctness has crossed the line from ensuring all their equal, to some being more equal than others. And I commend the government on the recent stance on sentencing. It's also become fashionable to believe that it is wrong to ensure that children makes through national voluntary programs because it is somehow coercive or old-fashioned.

I'm not saying, my Lords, that -- and I don't suggest that what we desire is some beige colour monochrome, old-fashioned sense of what makes us British and that diversity is ignored. But we live in a country called the United Kingdom for a reason. A nationstate made up of four nations that contain within them numerous strong, healthy and diverse communities. As I've already said, it's actually a greater threat to our country that so many people in the UK have no sense of community, whether that be cultural, religious, familial or national.

I was appalled when commentators began to enter into discussion as to whether prominent politicians from a nonwhite background could be English, British, Welsh or Scottish. We cannot enter a reductive argument about individual smack race or religion when actually, what is far more important is that people from every background feel that they are except as British irrespective of the community or noncommunity that they come from. In conclusion, my Lords, there is no simple route to integration. It's about a delicate balance underlined by principles of equality and contract between the citizen and the state well recognising and celebrating difference.

I would like to ask the Minister how that balance will be supported through policy. The west of Scotland as an example of how long that community integration can long that community integration can take. -- Is an example.
16:50
Lord Griffiths of Burry Port Portrait Lord Griffiths of Burry Port (Labour)
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I'm almost speechless at the quality of some of the contributions to this debate. To the two maiden speakers, well, what fun we are going to have in the future. Fun even in Your Lordships' House. I commend them on the quality of their wisdom and also the manner of their delivery. Also, of course, to my noble friend Baroness Verma for giving us the opportunity to share these experiences and ideas. The day before yesterday, I was in Paris attending the Migration Committee of the Council of Europe I was charged to be the reporter for a study of diasporas across the continent and their attribution, agency in shaping coherent societies -- rapporteur.

And arrows to accept that because And arrows to accept that because this is an opportunity to build away from the toxic debates we've had about immigration -- and I rose to accept that. I'm looking forward to that. It will take some time and I might be in the grave before I finish it. But the major part of my contribution will be somewhat different. It's really in a university in London. For teacher training colleges, one run by the Methodist and another by Anglicans, another by Catholics and another by a humanist organisation, and to face the fact that teacher training institutions are no longer the fashion of the day.

They formed the Roehampton Institute of Higher Education and then in -- and then eventually, they were given the privy Council of research degree facilities. To see it coming on to one campus, these bodies represent the traditions that had been at each other's throats for so much of British history and where they have a common objective, finding a common will and a readiness to be open and generous with each other. Although they have religious backgrounds, they accept students from all over the University of Roehampton.

I was very privileged to be part of the engine that brought it into being and indeed, have benefited from one of its awards more recently. I don't of its awards more recently. I don't think it was indirect -- in direct payment full stop I have to say that before the press runs with it. It is important that people look at each other and collaborate upon an agreed goal and work together. I'm not going to take my six minutes.

I always keep in an account of the minutes I have on credit for future possible use. I don't want to say that -- I do want to say that the summing up of what I'm trying to say that by the creation of the University of Roehampton reached its summer point that by the creation of the University of Roehampton reached its summer .2 someone point -- summit point. These force faith groups have now the coherent head of the -- of a Hindu who is helping us see more than we saw before -- four groups.
16:54
Lord Goodman of Wycombe Portrait Lord Goodman of Wycombe (Conservative)
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I declare my interest as a senior fellow at Policy Exchange. And congratulate my noble friends on their maiden speeches. Each of us will have an idea of what integration looks like in mind to integration looks like in mind to raise two years ago, namely at the King's coronation. The coronation was what has been described in a very different context as a demonstration of traditional values in a modern setting. I want to examine both of those things in turn.

First of all, the modern setting. As other speakers have pointed out, the Britain of the future will be less white, older and less question. Other faiths will grow, especially as none which is likely to be followed by some 15% of the population. When we talk of integration, we mustn't assume that others who are neither white nor culturally question must somehow integrate into the rest of the country which is because the country is changing -- culturally Christian.

Britain is changing. Much of it is unchanged which brings me to British values. While many of us are not white and not question, many of us still are. By British institutions which in turn were shaped by enlightenment values, which in turn were shaped, as Tom Holland values in his book, by Christianity. What did this produce? Constitution, democracy, an independent judiciary, the free press. All of these are explicitly Western in origin though now global an application, as expressed in the Universal Declaration of Human Rights.

These are the foundations of our culture. I have no hesitation in asserting that some cultures are better than others. And it is these things we must integrate into if we are to be as great in the future as we have sometimes been in the past. So, in the very brief time available to me, I want to sketch how these foundations can be strengthened. In a nutshell, I think we have the balance wrong. There must be some private space, in relation to child abuse or violence.

Integration is not well served by the nice recording of incidents as it often happens. There must be free expression in public space. In relation, to exam for example -- in relation, for example to events in the Middle East. There can be no support for terrorist organisations, such as Hamas or Hezbollah. In that context, organisations that use criminal action to force change should face a fundraising and communication ban, as recommended by the noble Lord. And the criteria under which protests are committed should be determined by policy exchange.

Finally, we need to reform the practice of equality, diversity and inclusion, which at their best are all about fairness. From the words of a doctor who advised the last government on ethnicity and COVID, and I quote, the primary factor in educational inequality is deprivation, not race. There is now no overall white privilege in either health or education and especially not for deprived white people. There is an overall disadvantage and these categories are now outdated and are not helpful.

Just as we need to rethink equality, we need to do so with diversity and inclusion. It is said that diversity is a strength but it is not always true. The inclusion is strength. No one would think it is the strength to include grooming and rape gangs and integrate them into the Britain of the future. The journalist replied -- the journalists reporting on this for the Times has argued that a national enquiry is essential. The equality that all of us can do something for is equality before the law.

The primacy of this should be established in public policy if the practice of integration is to be realised and the promise of the coronation is to be fulfilled. coronation is to be fulfilled.
16:59
Lord Sahota Portrait Lord Sahota (Labour)
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Let me begin by expressing my gratitude to Baroness Verma for securing this important debate in your Lordships chamber. I'd like to congratulate my friends are gravel and Lord Brooke on their illuminating maiden speeches -- Lord Raval and Lord Brooke. The UK is now a truly diverse, multicultural and multifaith society. All minority communities are protected by pieces of legislation. However, legislation can only do so much. It cannot always change deeply entrenched views, beliefs, attitudes and values.

When immigrants from Commonwealth began to arrive in the UK after the Second World War, they faced widespread discrimination in their daily lives. Whether in housing, employment or in public 1960s, 70s and 80s this discrimination was born often from violence. In 1970 a pub fun -- landlord through my father out of his premises simply because he did not speak English. Though his rights were protected by law, the prejudiced of the time persisted. However, as time passed values and attitudes evolved.

Today I believe the UK stands as one of the most tolerant and inclusive societies in the world. Yet we must not let our guard down. We only need to look at what happened last summer in Stockport with three young girls were tragically murdered. A rumour falsely spread on social media claiming that Muslim asylum seekers were responsible. This must never ever happen again. Community cohesion is undermined by inequality, poverty, misinformation, barrier to essential services.

It is further threatened by low social mobility, a lack of respect for ethnic differences, negative attitudes towards migrants, low level of local pride, fear of crime and a lack of trust between different ethnic groups. Today I would like to focus on just one secular area. That is access to consumer credit. It is clear that some minority communities, particularly black African Caribbean is an Bangladeshi and Pakistani communities face far greater barriers when trying to access consumer credit.

These groups often find themselves on the lowest rungs of the economic ladder. Experiencing more significant financial exclusion more significant financial exclusion than others. They are more likely to be denied loans or purchasing homes or starting business due to their lower level of savings and assets. Despite accounting for only 10% of fraud victims they are far less likely to have their money returned. They were disproportionately impacted by the COVID 19 pandemic, suffering sharper decline in income and financial stability.

To address these disadvantages we must first recognise and acknowledge them. Improving community cohesion requires a collective effort from the government, local authorities, police and fire and rescue service, health and social care providers and third sector organisations. They must work towards a common vision that promotes equalities and that promotes equalities and inclusion. This can only be achieved through open dialogue and mutual understanding. Social interaction between different cultures and faiths, stronger engagement between public institutions and diverse communities.

Only three genuine integration can we breakdown barriers and ensure that every individual, regardless of background feels a true sense of belonging in our society.
17:05
Baroness Scott of Bybrook Portrait Baroness Scott of Bybrook (Conservative)
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First chi declare my interest as vice president of the Local Government Association. Can I congratulate Lord Ravel and Lord Rook on excellent and very funny at times which is always lovely and this House, maiden speeches. I welcome them to his Lordships house but also look forward to working with them. On these issues in the future. I would like to thank Baroness wormer -- Baroness Verma for bringing this important debate today I would particularly like to thank her for sharing her story and Thankur also for her long-standing and passionate service and love of the city of Leicester.

And its communities. I am proud of our diverse country, a recent study of Oxford University's migration Observatory found that Britain is one of the most successful ethnically diverse countries in the world. Some of our greatest achievements as a nation have been by people who have chosen to come to Britain and contribute fully to our country. I think of Mo Farah and his Olympic excellence. Freddie Mercury who was born and raised in Zanzibar to pass the Indian parents and James Hadith the first woman to win puts a price on architecture was Braun Iraq.

Indeed so many of our Lordships house will born in other countries and have committed their lives to public service in this country. It's important that people come here though, when they come here that they abide by our laws. We embrace people who integrate, but we know when immigration is too high it sometimes presents challenges to effective integration. Nearly one million people in England have little or no English proficiency, specifically 8.6, approximately 794,000 of our residents born overseas struggle with the English language.

1.4%, about 138,000 cannot speaking this at all. This language barrier poses significant challenges to migrants integration. Can I echo the question from Baroness Verma to the Minister and ask him to set out the government's plans to improve English-language skills for all is a part of work to foster greater cohesion. We have a rich culture in this country which we should be proud of, but there has been too many examples of UK public bodies apologising for our national traditions.

Just a few examples, Stoke-on-Trent City Council refer to their Christmas celebrations without explicitly mentioning Christmas. Aiming to be considerate to all community members. Newcastle University advised staff to use terms like winter break instead of Christmas break and spring instead of Easter break, supposedly fostering inclusivity among a diverse student population. But we are culturally a Christian country and people from all faiths and all backgrounds can enjoy the Christmas and Easter break even though they may not be Christians themselves.

It would be interesting to hear from the Minister on his thoughts on the role of public institutions and the roles they have to play in fostering inclusivity without seeking to undermine our traditional cultural values. As a minister I spent a lot of time going around the country visiting many of our fantastic faith communities that we are encouraging and supporting integration. I visited Manchester, Liverpool, Birmingham, London, in their groups of Muslims, Jewish, Sikhs, Hindus, mainly women I have to say which is interesting.

Using Christian to -- church halls particularly, just to chat between themselves. Have a cup of tea, share skills and their cultural, cultural heritage is cultural, cultural heritage is together. That is local integration. I saw them even running wonderful community food banks. Helping all of their communities. But these projects do still need some local and I would suggest national support to keep them going because I think it is from the bottom up that real community cohesion happens.

With support from the top. Government both local and national are critically important in this. I want to briefly talk about British laws stop I'm very proud of our laws and our way of life, one area in which we need to see more action on integration I believe is women's rights. We have a responsibility in your Lordships house to protect women in all communities across all faiths and all cultures, and we can't allow progress we have made to be hindered by groups that have refused to accept our support for women's rights.

It is fundamental principle in English law that we are all equal before the law and every woman I believe should have the same equal protection under the law regardless of their faith, their culture or their background or ethnicity. It's the same in policing, we must ensure that policing is fair throughout our country, whether of failures whether they be heavy-handed policing in certain communities of failures to act in other areas we must$$JOIN : Out and correct them. The government is right to look again at the grooming gangs and well we were disappointed that they didn't launch a national enquiry, it is important this work continues at pace.

I just want to say that yesterday in the new Planning and Infrastructure Bill, you're probably asking why she talking about that, there is a requirement for strategic planning bodies to create spatial planning development plans. In that there is a goldplated plan in consultation requirements. It claims there must be consultation of bodies the represent the interest of different racial, ethnic or national groups in the strategy area. We can't support this. I think this is where we perhaps go wrong.

We believe that policies of this kind we just really need to be consulting the public, not pulling out different ethnicities or religions. I believe this potentially creates division when we go too far. Broadly, we need a clear approach in my opinion to integration strategy from the Labour government. Integration is about uniting communities across class, ethnicity and creed, celebrating shared local and national identities which bring people together rather than atomising them into protected characteristics.

I look forward to hearing from the noble minister

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this. I extend my gratitude to the noble Baroness for initiating this noble Baroness for initiating this important debate and for such a passionate and eloquent speech passionate and eloquent speech detailing her personal journey on the journey of her family. Successful integration and social Successful integration and social cohesion are the pillars of a strong and resilient society. I also want and resilient society. I also want to thank Lord Raval and Lord Brooke for their valuable and thoughtful maiden speeches in this House, and evidence of these excellent evidence of these excellent contributions the House will be richer and enhanced by the presence and it's the first time any minister can say that all the maiden speeches made today in this House, I was there supporting them introductions, I want also thank noble Lords for their work in faith and me personally for being such an advising and supporting me through my work as a minister in relation to my face Responsibility.

Integration is the foundation upon which to social cohesion is built, effective integration shows equitable access to resources, opportunities and support while social cohesion fosters trust, shared values and collaboration among different groups. Together they strengthen social stability, reducing equalities and promote a sense of belonging which is essential for the thriving and harmonious society. Integration is not about simulation, we don't want individuals to feel like they have to give up their identity and heritage, instead it's about ensuring that every individual can succeed, be represented and accepted, at home in the community they live in so long as there is respect for fundamental values point which Lord Hodgson was alluding to.

For generations people from across the world have come here to start new lives. In the past decade the UK has provided safe and legal routes for 600,000 people from Hong Kong, Syria, Afghanistan and Ukraine. Lord Rook mentioned the Syria refugee schemes he was involved in, in August I met with roller you arrived in the UK with a husband and two children through the Syrian vulnerable persons resettlement scheme. She and her husband now both speak excellent English and have settled into life in Newark stop she works as an employment provider providing interview skills and job searching applications to other people.

While husband has opened his The majority of people who come here are welcomed into communities and cycle well into life in the UK. Their presence has made the UK immeasurably richer and more diverse. Successful integration has led to cohesive communities, backed by research we know the UK is one of the most open and tolerant places to live in the world, for example in a recent survey 19% of people said they are comfortable living next to people of different race.

Yet integration in the UK can come with challenges. -- 98 of people said they were comfortable living next to people of different race. Cultural differences and social isolation can take time to overcome. When people do not feel connected to their communities we see hatred and divisions form. Seeing the disturbances in my own hometown of Burnley, the unrest in lustre and more recently the violent disorder across the UK following the events in Southport, I know how much effort it takes to rebuild communities.

The government is supporting Leicester, as it seeks to address its challenges, build on its strengths and work for the difficult events that took place in 2022. The Independent Review will establish what happened, the factors that contributed to the events and what can be done differently in the future. This government is determined to strengthen the structures that promote integration and by extension social cohesion. I will now want to address some of the specific issues raised and I now have limited time. I haven't got the luxury of Lord Griffiths who has money credits over the years.

On the point made by Baroness that ensures images available to everyone the government is committed to the manifesto commitment of boosting English and was teaching. Language skills are crucial to helping people integrate into life in the UK and to breakdown barriers to work in career progression. This is why we want to support all adults including refugees to secure the English language skills they need. The Department for Education also for adults, through the adult skills from supporting 168,000 learners in 22/24, the government recognises that the ability to speak English is key to helping people integrate into life in the UK, as well as supporting people to access education, employment and other opportunities.

The noble Baroness also asked about what I would in relation to digital skills. In February, the government published its digital inclusion action plan, setting our first steps including a definition and principles which will guide our work to address it. This includes partnering with the Digital Poverty Alliance launching a new digital inclusion fund and a digital action committee, an expert advisory group, to administer our progress. The noble Baroness Baroness Prashar mentioned the announcement that will bring funding and support to 75
17:19
Lord Khan of Burnley Portrait Lord Khan of Burnley, Parliamentary Under-Secretary (Housing, Communities and Local Government) (Labour)
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communities across the UK, flying the foundation to kickstart local growth and drive up living growth and drive up living standards. The programme is developed to work across the UK government as well as devolved government as well as devolved government and will demonstrate the breadth of intervention possible in the programme. My noble friend Lord Mandelson, in his excellent speech, Mandelson, in his excellent speech, talked about in particular the Dames Akan's review, just to reassure the Akan's review, just to reassure the noble Lord, I have reached out to the Dame 's Sara Khan and hopefully I will meet her soon.

And hopefully to be able to discuss the recommendations and the lessons to be learned from that piece of work. My Lords, Britain is an open, tolerant and compassionate country. We welcome people from all over the world to be part of our Britishness, whether coming to work, study offering conflict and persecution. Schemes like the Homes for Ukraine, Afghani settlement and Hong Kong British nationals overseas have helped those seeking century. People come here for a variety of reasons and this requires a different approach.

Working with local authorities to understand the integration needs of new arrivals and how we can work together to ensure positive integration outcomes in local communities which the noble Baroness and my noble friend mentioned in their contributions. Baroness Cox talked about the high levels of immigration. The government is clear that net migration must come down and is committed to tackling skills shortages and labour market failures here in the UK. The government has set out a new approach to end overreliance on international government and booster, growth by leading the UK immigration labour market and skills system and training at our domestic workforce.

Building on the Prime Minister's statement on 20th November the government will publish a white paper later this year which will set out this government's approach to reducing net migration. My noble friend Lord Mandelson and the noble Lord rockier talked in particular about social cohesion. With increasing diversity in the UK, I recognise the start the noble Baroness talked about, 18% of the population being from an ethnic minority background, proud to be a country that embraces difference and encourages people to celebrate their individual identities but we are not complacent.

You must do more to build a stronger and united country. The government is committed to taking a longer term, more strategic approach to social cohesion and department is leading across government efforts on this. This is important. The noble Lord Mendelsohn said this. It is not just for MS EOG, we have to work across government and local communities and stakeholders to address the deep- seated issues. The Right Reverend Prelate the Bishop of Lichfield, I extend my gratitude for talking about the local project in terms of recovery steering funding that was being used in some initiatives being used.

That is the start of our progress and we have added that since and we can hopefully do more expansion. The government supports recruitment of candidates to teacher training, religious education, by offering bursaries of £10,000 but I take the point made by the Right Reverend Prelate and other noble Lords in that meeting sure we can't see PHSE in citizenship last as religious education, classed as talk about people who have not got the skills and expertise. Having positions with the Ministry of education, on this very particular issue.

In relation to the communities steering group, ice it on that group alongside the Secretary of State across government and as the noble Lord mentioned, the terms of reference for public record is across government group led by the deputy promised, including the Home Office presentation, the Department for vegetation, Cabinet Office and others working together to make committees thrive and grow and to be resilient to threats. The government has set a long-term ambition to achieve an 80% employment rate, aiming to reverse the trend of inactivity, raising productivity and improve living standards while enhancing the quality of work.

Backed by £240 million funding analysis in the budget the white paper sets out our ambitious reform, outlining three interconnected parts, including a new jobs and clear service, a new youth guarantee, for all 18 to 21- year-olds and up to £20 million to support the development of local get written working pounds -- get The centre plus, local council problems, refugee implement schemes and sector specific initiatives are available. Many noble Lords touched upon the summer disorder. And I have set out earlier in terms of cross governmental approach.

We did launch £15 million community recovery fund to support the 20 areas affected, and that has been mentioned by the Right Reverend Prelate, being utilised by local communities. More utilised by local communities. More needs to be done. The discussion in particular on deprivation, there is evidence deprivation, poor housing, low civil participation leave communities at risk to cohesion issues, this is the point which the noble Baroness very eloquently raised. For instance seven of the 10 most deprived areas of England witnessed disorder over the summer, Middlesbrough, Blackpool, Liverpool, Hull, Blackpool, all experienced disorder and are around the top 10 deprived local authorities in.

My department is trying to understand how social and economic factors may play a role in harming social cohesion and developing more strategic approach to supporting communities in developing societal resilience more broadly. The noble Lord palm and my noble friend Lord Katz mentioned the high levels of anti-Semitism and religious hate crime. And of course, this is unacceptable, and the government ensures this is a priority, we continue to work closely with Lord Mann, anti-Semitism adviser, on antiregime hatred, we have just announced a working group -- and anti-Muslim hatred.

71% of all religious H hate crime is against Jewish and Muslim communities and that is according to the Home Office. We must ensure we were across all religions to tackle this scourge in our country and we will continue to focus on that particular issue. My noble friend Baroness Hazarika, who I thought was very brave in outing her father, attending pubs, I just hope the local imam doesn't read Hansard tonight. She raises an interesting point in terms of tackling this political which was when you are the Minister for communities and you get the opportunity to go round the country, and they tell you exact how-to's, a lot of the issue coming through was the language of politicians, and that is to be dealt with.

The noble Baroness Bottomley talked about loneliness, I think she makes a very important point about loneliness and that can affect us all at any time of our lives, with the negative impact on community and individual well-being. The government's is doing work to tackle work on loneliness, online platforms, professionals working to produce loneliness. This will work to improve the evidence-based around loneliness and provide evidence for better health, and the Everyman matters campaign. I'm going to spend a few moments on education which was the theme of Lord Hodgson and other noble Lords contributions.

We know that socially economically disadvantaged pupils are more likely to behind and face barriers to hold them back from the opportunities and life chances they deserve. The focus on driving high and rising standards in every school delivered through excellent teaching, high-quality curriculum and school system in removing barriers for learning. The opportunity mission will break the link between young people's background and their success by helping all children achieve and thrive whenever they are in the country. High and rising standards of cross education at the heart of this mission and the key to unlocking strong outcomes and a better future for children and young people.

My Lords, I want to just finish off on this point in particular. Two points. One is on quality, which Baroness Scott raised. From making work pay to keeping our streets safe, women are central to all ambitions. We are making the changes needed to make sure women's equality becomes our reality. It's an ambitious agenda and we are putting women's voices at the heart of it. There is evidence that deprivation, poor housing and low participation leave communities low participation leave communities more at risk.

Cohesion issues. We want to work on that in particular. We've had nice integration and cohesion do not happen in isolation. They must be embedded in the policies that shape our towns and cities, in our education system and public services. We are preparing to launch a competitive process to continue our support for Ukrainian and Hong Kong nationals overseas, providing intensive English language lessons and employment support for up to 4,000 individuals, foreign competitive process. Anticipate competitive process. Anticipate this. Later this program.

We have renewed a contract with the international for migration are responsible for delivering cultural orientation to people coming to the UK. We have been working to deliver enhanced messaging and self- sufficiency with a view to improving integration and behaviours, and a new curricular has started on 10 March. We have also placed a renewed focus on fostering social cohesion ensuring that we are reinforcing this work through strategic and collaborative initiatives, to the recently established Cross government communities and recovery steering by the book deputy Lister and we continue to engage with local people, partners up and down the country to understand how best to support local integration and cohesion efforts.

Baroness Scott, who are generally paid tribute to the work she did, and her point of the pattern of going up and down the country and having meetings, I've already had over 18 engagement with all faiths and beliefs, teas in the UK, and dozens of other engagements on resettlement and cohesion since taking up my post as Minister for Faith, communities and it has been very busy period but my focus is to reset that relationship with the faith communities and not just to see that whenever we need faith community, we will go to them like community, we will go to them like community, we will go to them like It's also important to say we will support muses holistically, we launched a £1.5 billion plan for neighbourhoods and that will be funding into the next decade.

Cohesion measures will fund a key part of integration to bring people together so they can feel proud of their area and restore a collective sense of belonging to their journey. If I can steal a phrase from my noble friend Robert Nicholl, -- Lord McNicol, journeys important, it's all about the journey and Not always be the important point. We need to ensure we get to the destination, celebrate the journey, and as colleagues of certain wonderful contributions, we are one of the most amazing multi-ethnic countries in the world, there is so much work to do, but if I just tell you about my experience living in Burnley, having seen what happened in 2001, it takes time.

There is no quick fix to this. It takes time, there's a long-term approach it will take time to get there. What is helpful is debates like this, raising awareness of the key issues and actually raising awareness of the challenges that we've got to do as a country. I'm confident that we will be able to in the work that we tried to embark on ensure that we can bring the country together and fix our systems, our public services and ensure that people can take pride in their local communities.

I want to pay tribute again to Baroness Verma for bringing this debate forward today and for all she does in promoting community cohesion

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across our country. I want to thank all noble Lords for their contributions today, particularly the two maiden speeches. They were just incredibly informative but humorous as well. At informative but humorous as well. At a time when there is so much misery around a little bit of humour goes a long way and I'm pretty certain that
17:33
Baroness Verma Portrait Baroness Verma (Conservative)
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long way and I'm pretty certain that we are going to hear much more from noble Lords in future debates. Each contribution today has brought a different lens and I just feel that it demonstrates that you can have an intelligent debate where we can raise the issues without raising the temperature. The difficulties we have is that we raise the temperature where mouth and brain do not always work together. I think if we were to just stop and think that all of our words have outcomes and all of our words have outcomes and actions we may think more wisely.

We should all collectively call out when we see something that is not right that is causing problems. Collectively say that this is unacceptable in our country. Whatever faith you come from, if your faith is doing some things wrong we should collectively come out and call it out. That is the strength of a good strong democracy and we undermine it and vacuums are then filled with people who do generate hate. I do hope that we continue working and learning from today's debate, I do hope the other house takes note.

And introduces the policies that we in this House all want to see. But this is a debate that has got many many more discussions to be had because unfortunately, we have allowed ourselves often to sleepwalk into crisis and we do that because we don't want to be called out as being politically incorrect. I think it is time that we started to realise that for the value of others we have to speak out. I do say to my noble friend Lord Griffiths that it is a great joy to be in a university which is so multicultural, but actually shares all of the values of this country.



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I beg to move. The question is that this motion is agreed to. As many are of that opinion say, "Content", and of the contrary, "Not content". The

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"Contents" have it. I beg to move that the House do now adjourn.
10:29
None Portrait Oral questions: Implementing an updated public-private partnership model to attract capital investment and to open share ownership to more people Lord Brooke of Alverthorpe (Labour)
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17:42
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None Portrait Oral questions: Implementing an updated public-private partnership model to attract capital investment and to open share ownership to more people Lord Brooke of Alverthorpe (Labour)
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None Portrait Oral questions: Implementing an updated public-private partnership model to attract capital investment and to open share ownership to more people Lord Brooke of Alverthorpe (Labour)
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