Unregistered Schools

Baroness Barran Excerpts

Wednesday 5th July 2023 Lords Chamber

[Lord Warner]

To ask His Majesty’s Government whether they intend to re-introduce legislation to close down unregistered schools and, if so, when; and what further safeguarding action could be undertaken until any such legislation is passed.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department for Education (Baroness Barran)]

My Lords, it is already an offence to conduct an unregistered school. The Government will always prosecute when it is in the public interest. We work closely with Ofsted to make effective use of its current powers to investigate unregistered schools. We recognise that improved powers would better enable effective action, which is why we intend to introduce legislation in this area at the next available opportunity.

[Lord Warner (CB)]

My Lords, I note that particular response, which is not at all unexpected. I assume that the Minister and her colleagues are familiar with the report of the Independent Inquiry into Child Sexual Abuse and the recent Bloom Review, both of which reveal widespread child sexual abuse in religious settings. Well before these reports, the Government knew as long ago as 2015 that Ofsted lacked the enforcement powers needed to deal with these unregistered religious schools. Given the urgency of this situation for vulnerable children at serious risk of harm, will the Government commit to legislation on religious schools in the next Session? If they cannot do this, will they perhaps consider supporting and helping a Private Member’s Bill on this subject to strengthen Ofsted’s powers? In the meantime, will DfE encourage Ofsted, social services and the police to take stronger safeguarding measures in respect of the most concerning religious schools?

[Baroness Barran (Con)]

The noble Lord raises a number of important points, and I think he would agree with me that the vast majority of religious schools deliver a safe and very valued service to the children and families they work with. But of course he is right that there will be safeguarding exceptions in every setting and every community, and we are determined to address those when legislative time allows.

[Baroness Whitaker (Lab)]

My Lords, I add to the plea for urgency by drawing attention to recent media coverage of former pupils from such settings. Some did not speak any English at school and others had no English, maths or science taught to them, only a very narrow religious curriculum. It is very important to rescue those children; surely they deserve an urgent response from the Government.

[Baroness Barran (Con)]

The Government need to strike a very delicate balance. I think we in this House would all agree that parents are ultimately responsible for ensuring that their children get a good education. Local authorities already have significant powers to check the quality of that education, and we are working closely with them and with parents, updating our guidance in this area, because we are all committed to making sure that every child has a safe and suitable education.

[Lord Addington (LD)]

My Lords, will the Minister take this opportunity to take back to the Government the fact that we did not object to the part of the Bill that had this capacity in it? We did not like the first bit but we did like the second, and the Government dumped it all. Can she take back that we will probably help as much as we can to get that legislation on the statute book as soon as we can?

[Baroness Barran (Con)]

The Government absolutely recognise that there was cross-party support for this element of the Bill.

[Baroness Blackstone (Lab)]

My Lords, I feel extremely disappointed by the complacent reply that the Minister has given to these questions. It is all very well to refer to religious schools doing a very good job—they often do—but these are not schools. These are institutions that describe themselves as carrying out religious instruction, yet the pupils—and they are pupils, because they are there all day long and they are not getting any other form of education—are being treated appallingly, with a lack both of any proper curriculum and of safeguarding, so abuse of a really serious kind is often taking place. In these circumstances, surely the Government should move now to bring back that legislation that will close the loopholes that allow these institutions to continue to act without any proper prevention of the appalling damage that they are doing to children and young people.

[Baroness Barran (Con)]

I really hope that I did not give the House any impression of complacency. There is no complacency where there are serious safeguarding concerns. There have been more than 1,000 investigations by Ofsted of different out-of-school settings and, of those, 122 were offering a religious education, but there were also a number of other settings; 146 suspected illegal settings were found, 129 of those were closed or otherwise changed their operations, and we completed seven prosecutions.

[Lord Lexden (Con)]

My Lords, is it not possible to tackle this problem through regulations under existing legislation rather than having to wait to find the time for fresh primary legislation?

[Baroness Barran (Con)]

My understanding is that we would need primary legislation to address the specific instance in which schools are offering a purely religious education.

[Baroness Twycross (Lab)]

My Lords, as the Minister said, only seven providers of illegal schools have been successfully prosecuted. Proprietors of illegal unregistered schools exploit loopholes in the law around home education definitions of school. The issues and risks of unregistered religious schools have been noted already. Since the pandemic, however, reports have been raised of a new trend, including a school in Sussex run by anti-vaxxers and conspiracy theorists. Can the Minister tell this House how widespread an issue the Government believe this to be and how soon she believes it might be possible to bring in legislation?

[Baroness Barran (Con)]

The noble Baroness rightly cited the seven prosecutions; however, she did not repeat the statistic that 129 of the schools investigated have either closed or changed their operations so that they comply with the law. By definition, it is difficult to track illegal unregistered schools, but there are a number of routes—for example, a member of the public or others can report concerns around extremism directly to the department.

[Baroness Burt of Solihull (LD)]

My Lords, like the noble Baronesses, Lady Blackstone and Lady Whitaker, one of my big concerns about the delay in dealing with these schools is the toll it is taking on the children. They report being unprepared for modern life, forced to study a narrow curriculum from dawn to dusk with no English, maths or science available and not even speaking English. This has been delayed for years. What does the Minister have to say to them?

--- Later in debate ---

[Baroness Barran (Con)]

We are obviously extremely concerned on their behalf. Children who receive the kind of exclusive religious education that the noble Baroness refers to often receive the rest of their education at home—not exclusively but frequently. The noble Baroness will be aware that we are tightening up and reinvigorating our efforts in relation to elective home education registers so that every local authority can track whether every child is getting a suitable and safe education.

[Lord Watts (Lab)]

My Lords, the first job of the state is to protect its citizens and it is quite clear in this area that the Government have failed to protect those children. Is it not about time that they stopped talking and started doing?

[Baroness Barran (Con)]

It is probably not a good use of the House’s time for me to repeat what the Government are already doing, but I reiterate that we are working closely with local authorities, Ofsted and parents to make sure that we can get the best possible response. When legislative time allows, we will bring forward legislation in this area.

[Baroness Berridge (Con)]

My Lords, as my noble friend outlined, some of these children fall into home education. She outlined renewed efforts in relation to this, but part of the Schools Bill that we lost was to have a register. Is it my noble friend’s view now that that can be done through other initiatives or are we going to get legislation on it as well?

[Baroness Barran (Con)]

I think that my noble friend knows that the Government’s position is that it would be best to have legislation in this area and to make the collection of this data mandatory. That is for two reasons: to trace those children who are home educated and unsafe and, importantly, to support those parents who are home-educating their children and perhaps struggling to do so. In the meantime, we are working closely with—and I personally have spoken to—the Association of Directors of Children’s Services to make sure that we are working in a joined-up way on this issue.

Childcare Reform Package

Baroness Barran Excerpts

Thursday 29th June 2023 Lords Chamber

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department for Education (Baroness Barran) (Con)]

My Lords, I shall now repeat a Statement made in another place. The Statement is as follows:

“With permission, Madam Deputy Speaker, I would like to make a Statement about the progress we have made towards delivering the genuinely radical childcare reforms announced in the Chancellor’s Spring Statement.

The Chancellor announced that from September 2025, working parents will be able to access 30 hours a week of childcare, for 38 weeks a year, from the term after their child turns nine months to when they start school. I am pleased to announce that from today, the Department for Work and Pensions has raised the amount working parents on universal credit can claim for their childcare to £951 a month for one child and £1,630 for two or more children. That is an increase of roughly 50% from the previous limits, which were £646 for one child or £1,108 for two or more children.

The Government are also helping eligible parents to cover the costs for the first month of childcare when they enter work or increase their working hours. Those parents will now receive up to 85% of the first month’s childcare costs back before next month’s bills are due, meaning that from then on they should have the money to pay for childcare one month in advance.

When I have spoken to families on universal credit, many have told me that they have struggled with up-front childcare bills, making it harder for them to get back into work. These childcare reforms support one of the Prime Minister’s five key priorities, to grow the economy, by giving families on universal credit up to £522 extra each month to cover childcare costs. This is a transformational package that is designed to remove as many barriers to work as possible.

The evidence is clear: the earliest years, before a child goes to school, are the most critical stage of a young child’s development. That is when they are learning most rapidly, and when the foundations are being laid for future success.

We are also committed to improving the availability of wraparound childcare. Reliable wraparound childcare, before and after school, helps parents to work and can offer children great activities around the school day. The education and care provided in childcare settings up and down the country is pivotal for children. Visiting and talking to nurseries, childminders and other providers is one of the best parts of my job. I wish to put on record my thanks for the hard work and dedication of the talented people who work in the sector.

I have travelled across the country visiting providers: from Chestnuts Childcare in Shirebrook to Kids Inc in Crowthorne; from Little Stars in Peterborough to Imagination Childcare in Moredon; from Curious Caterpillars in Stroud to Playsteps Day Nursery in Swindon; and from Bright Horizons in Didcot to Acorn Day Nursery in Emberton. I thank my honourable friends the Member for Peterborough, for Bolsover, for Bracknell, for North Swindon, for Stroud, for Milton Keynes North, for Cities of London and Westminster and others for hosting me on those visits. They all share my determination to get this right for parents and providers.

When I am out on those visits, I often hear how much of a lifeline the settings are for parents, allowing them to work and develop their own careers while providing the high-quality early education that gives our youngest children the best start in life.

I support the ambitious expansion of childcare support for working parents that the Chancellor announced in his Spring Statement. It represents the single biggest investment in childcare this country has ever seen. It will make sure that parents are able to access the high-quality, affordable childcare that they need.

Today’s changes are just one part of our genuinely radical plans. By 2028, we expect to be spending more than £8 billion per year on early years education, which is double what we spend now. This will build on the 30 hours of funded childcare for three to four year-olds that this Government introduced in 2017, extending the entitlement to eligible working parents of children aged from nine months old to when they start primary school. It will remove one of the largest hurdles that working parents face, and it will save parents £6,500 per year on average.

We have heard it loud and clear from the sector that getting the funding right is crucial. From this September, we will provide £204 million of extra funding for local authorities to increase the hourly rates that they pay providers, and we will make sure that rates continue to go up each year. That means that, from September, the average hourly rate for two year-olds will go from £6 per hour to around £8 per hour, and the average rate for three to four year-olds will be more than £5.50 per hour. From 2024-25, the average rate for under-twos will be around £11 per hour. We will confirm the September rates for each local authority before the summer break. We will also ask the sector for its views on how we should distribute the funding for the new entitlements from April 2024, including the rules that local authorities will have to follow when distributing the funding to providers.

Of course, money is not everything. We also want to boost the early years workforce, who are so crucial to the success of nurseries across the country. There are multiple ways that we are doing that. I have heard from many people who manage nurseries that the way we regulate staffing in settings is stopping providers from making the most effective use of their staff and giving their best people responsibilities that match their abilities. Likewise, childminders and nurseries have been telling us about barriers to delivering the education and care that they want for children. That is why we have launched a consultation on proposed changes to the early years foundation stage requirements.

Every single one of our proposals has come from conversations with people working in the sector. They will give settings more flexibility and help address some of those barriers, while maintaining high-quality provision and keeping our youngest children safe. Indeed, 96% of childcare providers in England were judged good or outstanding at their most recent inspection, which should give parents huge confidence in the standards of provision.

Some of the new measures will help free up staff to pursue professional development opportunities. We are investing up to £180 million in the early years education recovery programme, which offers a package of training, qualifications, expert guidance and targeted support for everyone working in the sector. To train people up, we need to get more people in, so we are also going full steam ahead with a new national campaign early next year to promote the sector and support the recruitment and retention of talented staff. We will also consider how to introduce new accelerated apprenticeship and degree apprenticeship routes, so that new entrants can build careers at all levels of the sector.

I wish to reassure Members that we will work closely with the sector to deliver these historic reforms, just as we did on previous successful rollouts of the 30 hours entitlement for three to four year-olds, the 15 hours entitlement for two year-olds from disadvantaged backgrounds, and the holiday activities and food programme. We cannot do this without early years providers, childminders and local authorities. We have a strong track record of working together to deliver childcare for parents, and I will be listening closely to them when considering our next steps. I commend this Statement to the House.”

--- Later in debate ---

[Baroness Thornhill (LD)]

I absolutely agree with every word the noble Baroness, Lady Thornton, has just said. As a grandmother of three grandchildren, from six months to six years-old, I say that this is a very pertinent issue for us and very much a topic of discussion within our household. It really takes me back, having always been a working mum myself, to how very different it is now from how it was then.

My daughter really does struggle with this, particularly with the cost. She and her husband are both modest-income earners, with wraparound care for the oldest grandchild—those hours at the beginning and end of school. It would be churlish not to say that this is very radical and very welcome. But, for her, it could not come soon enough. The questions were “When’s that happening, Mum? I’ve heard about this, when’s it actually going to be?”

I am sure that the Minister accepts that we have a childcare sector that is buckling under the pressure of inadequate funding for many years, and that many early years providers are being forced to close permanently, with the number of registered providers falling steadily since 2015.

I would like to know whether the Government have a proper picture of where the gaps are in childcare. The noble Baroness, Lady Thornton, talked about availability, and anecdotally I can certainly bear that out because I know some women are having to travel quite complicated distances to put one child in one provision and another child in another provision before going to work. There are definitely geographical gaps in the system. Do the Government have an overall picture of how many providers are teetering on the brink at the moment? That is certainly an issue.

On the existing entitlements for two, three and four year-olds, the Early Years Alliance and the Women’s Budget Group estimate that the current budget offer, however generous it seems when we hear the figures bandied about, is actually underfunded by £1.8 billion a year. I believe that the Government are providing only an extra £280 million this year and an extra £288 million next year. As I say, those sound like huge numbers but, in the light of the deficit, do we really feel that it is enough? Do we have any notion of how many providers we might lose by then?

The number of parents taking up the childcare element of universal credit concerns me; it appears very low, with only 13% of households getting the childcare element. Does the Minister agree that the department should perhaps explore why take-up is not higher and commit to publishing statistics so that progress in this area can be measured? Does she accept that, as this particular element has been frozen for seven years, and therefore obviously has failed to keep pace with inflation, we have in effect wasted seven years in getting a cohort of parents back into work?

I commend the plans for having a real career structure for nursery, but I echo what the noble Baroness, Lady Thornton, said about plans that the Government might have to restore childminding as a valuable part of the early years system. Perhaps they could look at replacing the current three different registration processes with a single childcare register and commissioning a practitioner-led review to simplify that regulation and reduce administrative burdens. That should attract new childminders, who love looking after children but are, I know, daunted by the paperwork. It need not mean lowering standards.

The question of summer childcare costs is crucial. Not everyone has grandparents who are willing or available—or indeed the money to pay for these courses, which, certainly in the area of Hertfordshire where I live, seem disproportionately expensive.

[Baroness Barran (Con)]

I thank both noble Baronesses for their generosity in welcoming our announcement. I am grateful for the reflection from the noble Baroness opposite that perhaps her colleague in the other place was a little harsh; I welcome her tone.

The noble Baroness, Lady Thornhill, suggested that the measure was radical for this Government. I would say it was radical for any Government. We are putting an extra £4 billion into the childcare system, raising it to a total of £8 billion. I think the House will agree with me that that is a radical move.

I contest the assertion that this Government have been late to the party. We introduced 30 hours of free childcare for three and four year-olds and 15 hours for disadvantaged two year-olds, so we have made tremendous progress. I do not recognise her assertion that people are leaving the sector in droves. There were 331,000 employees in the sector in 2018 and 334,000 in 2022, which by my maths is roughly unchanged.

The noble Baroness, Lady Thornton, commented that most children in childcare are aged three to four, but that is obviously a reflection of the free provision, and we very much expect that there will be a significant increase thanks to the new free offers. She asked how we have done our modelling. Part of that has come from the regular surveys that we do with about 10,000 providers and 6,000 parents, which have helped to inform both the levels of funding per hour that we are offering to providers and the nature of provision.

The noble Baroness, Lady Thornhill, mentioned the very important issue of wraparound childcare. The Government have already announced a £289 million investment to support local authorities, primary schools and private providers to improve the availability of wraparound childcare before and after school during term time. That funding will be available from January 2024, with access from September 2024. The noble Baroness looks a little unhappy at that, but I hope she would agree that it is important that we allow the sector to put in the capacity ahead of demand, rather than the other way around—otherwise, we will not be thanked for it.

The noble Baroness, Lady Thornhill, referred to the comments of the Early Years Alliance. As I said in relation to the point made by the noble Baroness, Lady Thornton, we consult very regularly with about 10,000 providers, and that has informed the levels of funding that we have set. I would counter the criticism from the Early Years Alliance with the comments of the chief executive of Pregnant Then Screwed, who said:

“Just 3 years ago, we would talk to Ministers about childcare and they would look at us like we were speaking Klingon. It was of no interest to those in power. To go from there to childcare being the main event in the Spring budget shows the power of collective action and we are elated to hear that the childcare sector will now receive a significant investment”.


I guess there is more than one view on our initiatives.

I turn now to the specific questions that the noble Baroness, Lady Thornton, raised. She asked what steps the Government are taking to address the cliff edge in costs between government-funded hours and hours for which parents have to pay. The context for this is that we are putting an additional £4 billion into the system. As I said in the repeat of the Statement, this will save households £650,000 a year, and they will get free childcare for younger children, as well as three and four year-olds. Childcare is a predictable cost; it is something that people can plan for. I am not saying that there is no pressure on households during the holidays; I am saying that the net pressure, given how much we are putting into the system, is reduced.

I also remind the House of the holiday activities and food programme, which 600,000 children accessed in the last year. The report back from those children was that 70% had experiences that they had never had otherwise—I am taking that in a positive way. It was a very valuable programme, and it is obviously part of this.

Both noble Baronesses questioned whether there would be enough capacity in the sector to deliver the increase that will be required. The Government do not underestimate, at all, the scale of the challenge in this area.

I referred to the accelerated apprenticeships and degree apprenticeships. We are obviously consulting on the early years and foundation stage framework, looking at different flexibilities for staff—not in any way diluting the quality of staff but allowing more flexibility in appropriate qualifications. For example, do you need a level 3 in maths to be a childminder of very young children? There might be other skills we should look for.

The noble Baroness, Lady Thornton, talked about difficulties in uptake, as did the noble Baroness, Lady Thornhill, specifically in relation to universal credit. I remind the House that the uptake for free childcare for three year-olds is 90%, and for disadvantaged two year-olds it is 72%. So there has been a big increase in uptake, including in the last year. Tax-free childcare was up by 14% in the last year. We are planning for the 2023-24 childcare choices campaign, and we want to continue to improve people’s understanding of the government childcare offer, including the measures announced in the Spring Budget.

I hope that I have addressed most of the points that both noble Baronesses raised.

[Baroness Bottomley of Nettlestone (Con)]

My Lords, I add my warmest congratulations on this Statement. I pay particular tribute to the Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State—the Minister reading it out—who made clear her enormous work programme in visiting all sorts of facilities. We know that my noble friend has also been closely involved. Behind that is our genuinely benign Chancellor, whom we ought to thank for his generous £4 billion package.

I am pleased that my noble friend mentioned the possibility of easing the requirement for a maths qualification at that level. I want to take up from the noble Baroness opposite the question of childminders. I have long believed that childminding is the most natural, personal, intimate and flexible form of childcare, but they have much less clout than the nurseries and others. The Select Committee heard from childminders that they were often paid only intermittently. I do not know what further guidance or steps can be taken to make sure that childminders are really valued and that the resources available get through to them, because they provide excellent, value-for-money childcare.

[Baroness Barran (Con)]

My noble friend makes, as ever, very good points. I am not sure what my right honourable friend the Chancellor would think of being described as “benign”, but I leave that to her to take a risk on. I apologise to the noble Baroness, Lady Thornhill; I do not think I addressed the points she raised about childminders. I echo the sentiments of both noble Baronesses about the important role that childminders play. We know that they have reduced in number in recent years, and I am aware of the issues about payment terms to which my noble friend refers. We are working with all local authorities and with the Local Government Association. Part of our consultation, which will start shortly, is looking exactly at our funding arrangements with local authorities—how much of the funding they retain, how much is passed on and, importantly, how quickly it is passed on, especially to small providers.

[The Lord Bishop of St Albans]

My Lords, I join others in congratulating His Majesty’s Government for what is a very forward-looking and exciting series of announcements. The research we have on the first 1,000 years and many other pieces of research show just how vital this is, and it absolutely plays into the last debate about our economy in the long run.

Will the Minister comment a little more on how we are going to recruit the people we will need? Anecdotally, as I go round, I hear that people are already trying to recruit and that it is not proving easy. There is a lot of competition. To touch on the issue of the maths qualification that the Minister mentioned, I wonder whether, as well as accelerated and degree-level apprenticeships, there will be quite a wide variety of ways into this, including training on the job, being paid while you are doing it and so on, so that we attract people who may have a set of skills that is absolutely ideal for this but who might otherwise be put off by what might feel like high hurdles for them to enter this important area of work.

[Baroness Barran (Con)]

I think the right reverend Prelate meant to mention the first 1,000 days, but I heard “the first 1,000 years”, which sounded very biblical.

[A noble Lord]

He takes a long view.

[Baroness Barran (Con)]

It is a very long view. Recruitment is extremely important and absolutely critical to the delivery of this programme. Obviously, apprenticeships offer an important way to learn and earn at the same time, whether they are degree apprenticeship or not. We will also start a major recruitment campaign early next year, working with local authorities all around the country. However, the right reverend Prelate touched on how we show that we really value this as a profession and how critical it is for the future of our children and the economy.

[Baroness Bennett of Manor Castle (GP)]

My Lords, like the Opposition Front Benches, I begin by commending the Government on significantly increasing spending in this area. I see that it is heading in the direction of Green Party policy, which is the provision of free early years education and childcare from age one to starting school.

The Minister may be aware of the excellent report published in March by the Women’s Budget Group, working with the Joseph Rowntree Foundation, which looked at the nature of the provision and what kind of organisations the money is going to. The report strongly recommended a move away from a market-based model towards a shared vision of public services for public good. We have just been talking about the importance of staff and attracting more staff into this sector. The report noted that 44% of early years professionals are reliant on state benefits to top up their salary or wages so that they are enough to meet their basic subsistence levels. That is 44% of people who work in the sector who are not paid enough to live.

I also note that, at the same time, many of those people are increasingly employed by—in fact the whole sector is dominated by—financialised large companies with highly complex financial structures that are thoroughly untransparent. It is reminiscent of the water sector that has been in the headlines so much this week. Will the Government take a serious look at where the money is going and how they can make sure that it is not for private profit but delivers real social value?

[Baroness Barran (Con)]

Unlike the noble Baroness, this Government do not feel that private profit is inherently evil. We cannot live in a world where, on the one hand, we say that the sector is underfunded so we give it enough money and, on the other, we are critical because we are worried that people operating in it, who might be small childminders running their own businesses from home, are able to move off benefits and live independently, as the noble Baroness suggested. I think we absolutely want to live in a country where we give local small entrepreneurs—which many people are who run nurseries and offer childminding services—the ability to pay their staff properly, make a decent return and provide an excellent service for children.

[Lord Young of Cookham (Con)]

My Lords, like other noble Lords, I very much welcome this Statement, which I see as rebalancing investment in education away from further and higher education and into early years—which is the best investment for both the child and society as a whole. Has my noble friend made any estimate of the number of people who will be able to return to work as a result of this welcome reform and what benefits the Treasury will recoup from that to offset some of the costs that she referred to?

Further to the questions asked by my noble friend Lady Bottomley and the right reverend Prelate on skills, does the Minister recognise the tension between on the one hand keeping costs down, both for families and for the taxpayer, and on the other hand the need to reward childminders appropriately, to attract more people into the workforce, to have a career structure and to ensure that people with appropriate qualifications are in early years so that children get the full benefit of the investment?

[Baroness Barran (Con)]

As ever, my noble friend speaks with great wisdom. The two parts of his question are linked. He is absolutely right that we cannot in any way compromise on quality, but we also need, as always, to ensure value for money for the taxpayer. One of the things that makes this policy affordable is the estimates from the Office for Budget Responsibility about the additional people joining the workforce as a result of this offer. The OBR has estimated that 65,000 people will go into the workforce as a result of this and a further 1.5 million will increase their hours by a small amount, which, aggregated, equates to a further 65,000 people. That is a really important boost to the country’s workforce, at a time when we need it very much. On how we ensure that we keep quality but also assure value for money, in addition to some of the issues around qualifications—I mentioned maths and whether that is needed—and giving additional routes into the sector, we are also changing the ratios of staff to children to mirror those in Scotland, so that that allows more flexibility, more capacity and better value for money.

Higher Education: Arts and Humanities

Baroness Barran Excerpts

Wednesday 28th June 2023 Lords Chamber

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department for Education (Baroness Barran) (Con)]

My Lords, we are supporting the study of the arts and humanities across our education system. Our EBacc ambition has humanities at its heart in order to increase the number of pupils studying these subjects at GCSE and beyond. We are introducing higher technical qualifications and T-levels in creative arts and design, and continue to support our higher education institutions, including maintaining funding for our world-leading specialist providers at £58 million for the 2023-24 financial year.

[The Earl of Clancarty (CB)]

My Lords, would the Minister acknowledge that these cuts, while shocking in themselves, are simply the latest in a pattern of such cuts at universities across the country? In practical terms, they are to make savings, but more materially, they are the result of a long-term downgrading by this Government of arts education from primary school to university. The UEA cuts include creative writing, yet its globally renowned MA course has produced Booker and Nobel Prize winners. Does the Minister appreciate that, if the Government continue with their destructive policy towards arts education, in the end it will be our global reputation which suffers?

[Baroness Barran (Con)]

I absolutely do not accept what the noble Earl has just asserted. If we look at full- time undergraduates undertaking arts and humanities courses, at a time of significant growth in our undergraduate population, the figure is almost unchanged between 2019 and 2022—from 20% moving to 19%. The percentage of disadvantaged young people undertaking these qualifications has also been stable. Looking across similar providers which have a significant percentage of arts and humanities provision, a number of them are in a comparably much stronger financial position.

[Lord Morgan (Lab)]

My Lords, this is a sad and very tragic event for the University of East Anglia, where I had the great pleasure of lecturing at one time—the time of our beloved friend Patricia Hollis. It is bad news for a distinguished department at a good university. It is also showing a very limited appreciation, both by the Government and by the funding councils, of the balance and way of assessing the merits of different university subjects. This seems to be a sad and deplorable cheapening of our universities, at a time when many other universities in other countries wish to partner our own fine institutions.

[Baroness Barran (Con)]

I do not question for a second—and regularly stand at this Dispatch Box to celebrate—the success of our great universities. Those universities, rightly, would also stress their independence and autonomy. I simply made, in my reply to the noble Earl, a comparison between some of the sad, recent events at the University of East Anglia and other comparable institutions.

[Lord Cormack (Con)]

Is my noble friend aware that the Royal Historical Society, of which I have the honour to be a fellow, has expressed real concern not only at this particular decision but at its wider implications? Would she consider discussing with the president of the Royal Historical Society and others what their concerns are and see whether she can assist them?

[Baroness Barran (Con)]

I would be more than happy to meet with the Royal Historical Society. But, again, it is the responsibility of the Office for Students to make a judgment on the financial viability and sustainability of our higher education institutions when they are registered. Its view is that the overall aggregate financial position of the sector is sound. I appreciate there are individual institutions which are under financial pressure, but they are autonomous institutions which need to run their own finances.

[Baroness Smith of Newnham (LD)]

My Lords, while it is absolutely clear that His Majesty’s Government have put a lot of emphasis on being a science superpower, have they also considered the ramifications of losing courses in modern foreign languages? If we aspire to be a global player and want to trade with other countries, the use of English is great, but to really understand other countries and cultures, we need scientists as well as people doing humanities who can really communicate in foreign languages.

[Baroness Barran (Con)]

I absolutely agree with the noble Baroness that modern foreign languages are critically important; hence our emphasis on the EBacc in schools to create a pipeline of students who are confident in exploring another language and the bursaries we offer teachers to deliver them.

[Baroness Bull (CB)]

My Lords, in its recent inquiry, the Communications and Digital Committee of your Lordships’ House heard that the OfS introduced a measure of low-value courses that failed to take into account the earnings profile in arts and creative careers, which often start on lower salaries or in freelance roles. Does the Minister agree with the committee that what it called a “sweeping rhetoric” about low-value courses needs to change, to reflect not just the realities of work in the sector but also the important point that individuals can and do choose to pursue careers that earn lower salaries but have vital social and cultural value?

[Baroness Barran (Con)]

The Government of course recognise the points that the noble Baroness makes, but it is also important that students are really well informed and understand the choices they make when they opt for one qualification or another, particularly in relation to the debt that they might take on. That is why we are so keen to encourage degree apprenticeships in the creative industries, for example, because of all the opportunities that offers.

[Baroness Wilcox of Newport (Lab)]

My Lords, among UEA’s alumni of novelists and Nobel laureates was a former colleague of mine. We taught together in the English department of a high school in Newport. Her teaching skills were exceptional, honed by her years studying the arts at UEA. Notwithstanding the Minister’s previous responses, what, if anything, are the Government doing to ensure that such motivating arts teachers continue to graduate from our universities and thus inspire a love of the arts in our children and young people?

[Baroness Barran (Con)]

A love of the arts can come from many sources—importantly from universities and schools but also from wider cultural experiences. As the noble Baroness knows, we are committed to the bursaries that we are putting in to support particularly the modern foreign language teachers that were referred to but also our wider commitment to the creative industries in this country.

[Baroness Andrews (Lab)]

Does the noble Baroness agree with me—I am sure she does—that the creative industries in this country generate £109 billion a year and are 5% of our GDP? Does she agree that anything that is done through funding, or through language that attempts to create a false dichotomy between creativity in science and in the arts—or that talks about low value, as opposed to high value—is damaging to creativity as a whole and to our ability, as a country, to produce the innovation and cultural vitality that we need across the whole spectrum, whether it is in the arts or the sciences?

[Baroness Barran (Con)]

I feel that the noble Baroness and I listen to different bits of what the Government say about this. It was only last month that the Government announced their plans to grow the creative industries from the current £108 billion by a further £50 billion, and a million more jobs by 2030. We are making a major investment in the sector, particularly in performance and screen technology research labs based in Yorkshire, Dundee, Belfast and Buckinghamshire.

[Lord Hampton (CB)]

My Lords, I declare an interest as a secondary school teacher and head of a design and technology department. According to the Art Now report published by the APPG for Art, Craft and Design in Education, 67% of art and design teachers questioned are thinking of leaving the profession. What are the Government trying to do to stop this entire waste of talent?

[Baroness Barran (Con)]

The noble Lord asks an important question, and part of this is about being clear about the value we put on those qualifications. As I mentioned in my opening reply, we are introducing a new T-level in this area in 2024 and further apprenticeship opportunities the following year.

Teacher Training: Dyslexia and Autism

Baroness Barran Excerpts

Thursday 22nd June 2023 Lords Chamber

[Lord Addington (LD)]

My Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question standing in my name on the Order Paper. I remind the House of my declared interests.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department for Education (Baroness Barran) (Con)]

My Lords, initial teacher training is designed to ensure that all qualified teachers can teach pupils with special educational needs and disabilities. High-quality teaching is central to ensuring that pupils with SEND, including those with autism and dyslexia, are given the best possible opportunity to achieve at school. All new teachers now also benefit from a two-year induction, underpinned by the early career framework, which includes specific focus on teaching pupils with SEND.

[Lord Addington (LD)]

I thank the Minister for that reply, but most such children are still identified on the initiative of their parents, not the school. Does that suggest that there is a lack of knowledge of these conditions and of other special educational needs in the teaching profession, particularly as we are losing qualified teachers at an alarming rate? Will the Minister consider making it a mandatory requirement that all educational establishments have level 5-qualified teachers who are able to give the necessary support to a front-line teacher, particularly an inexperienced one?

[Baroness Barran (Con)]

Our most recent guidance on initial teacher training, published just a few weeks ago, recommends two work placements during that period, stressing that one could be in a special school and the other could involve mentoring by someone with specialist skills. In addition, we have updated the SENCO qualifications so that every teacher has a specialist to whom they can turn for advice.

[Lord Touhig (Lab)]

My Lords, I refer to my interests in the register. Fewer than 40 in every 100 teachers have received autism training. In secondary schools, that falls to 14 in every 100. As a result, schools are struggling to support children with learning difficulties, particularly autism. There are a great many exclusions; an autistic child is twice as likely to be excluded from school as a non-autistic child. The National Autistic Society has produced a report proposing that all teachers be given specialist training to make sure that children with autism receive the best education possible. Will the Minister look at that report, go through it thoroughly and then agree with it?

[Baroness Barran (Con)]

Yes, yes and it depends on what is in the report. The noble Lord brings enormous expertise in this area. Under our universal services contract, there is the opportunity for additional training in autism. We are very focused on this area. I will of course look at the report and consider it very carefully.

[Baroness Stedman-Scott (Con)]

My Lords, has my noble friend had an opportunity to see the Synergy report, which shows that exclusions from school of young people with autism, ADHD and dyslexia have been dramatically reduced due to the impact of additional teacher training in the system? Will she arrange a meeting with the department to discuss this to see whether we can further enhance outcomes for young people?

[Baroness Barran (Con)]

I would be delighted to arrange a meeting with my noble friend to discuss the Synergy programme. She is right that children with special educational needs might have specific academic challenges, but, inevitably, behavioural challenges can be linked to those. We are working very closely with schools to make sure that, in respect of behaviour and attendance, those children feel as supported and included as possible.

[Baroness McIntosh of Hudnall (Lab)]

My Lords, the Minister will be aware that young people with a diagnosis of autism or ADHD often also exhibit signs of quite significant mental health issues. The two are not the same. In creating an education, health and care plan for such young people, a number of different kinds of input are necessary, from not just the school but mental health professionals and others. Does she accept that the problem identified by this Question is partly if not wholly one of capacity? Even if they have people trained to do this kind of work, schools are under enormous pressure and find it very difficult to meet the proper demands of an EHCP. Will she look into how that capacity issue could be alleviated?

[Baroness Barran (Con)]

The noble Baroness raises two issues: the importance of multi-agency input and co-ordination, and capacity. Our Special Educational Needs and Disabilities and Alternative Provision Improvement Plan aims to address exactly those, giving clarity and confidence to parents as to what they can expect from the system, and support for teachers, including a number of practice guides, the initial ones looking at mental health and wellbeing, autism, and speech and communication needs. So I think we are addressing all of the points raised by the noble Baroness.

[Baroness McIntosh of Hudnall (Lab)]

My Lords, I meant to declare my interest: a member of my family has an EHCP.

[Baroness Thornhill (LD)]

My Lords, I was a secondary school SENCO, back in the bad old days of very little specialist training and much ignorance of dyslexia and other learning difficulties. I was privileged to do part of my postgraduate training with the late Violet Brand, who was a renowned pioneer in dyslexia; it was very rare and ground-breaking. In the Minister’s initial response to the noble Lord, Lord Addington, she referred to the role of SENCO. My understanding is that the Government have recently lowered the national SENCO qualification standard. I was going to ask the Minister why the Government are dumbing down this critical role, but I should probably revert to asking her to clarify the position, because both the British Dyslexia Association and I seem to have a different take—the standard has not gone up, it is actually being lowered.

[Baroness Barran (Con)]

There is no question of the Government lowering the standard. What the Government are seeking to do with the introduction of the national professional qualification for SENCOs is to ensure real consistency in SENCO training and qualification, and that it is practically focused and based on the best evidence possible.

[Baroness Wilcox of Newport (Lab)]

My Lords, last March Matt Hancock told the Times Educational Supplement that the lack of neurodiversity training in initial teacher training is “striking” and needs to change. Can the Minister tell us if anything has changed in this policy area since that statement was made over 15 months ago by a former Tory Health Secretary?

[Baroness Barran (Con)]

I know that the noble Baroness is a former teacher, so she brings professional insight to this. We had very serious expert panels, including educational experts, on special educational needs and disabilities, both for the core content framework and the reform of initial teacher training. All of them were clear that trainees need to be able to teach everyone, and one of the great skills of a teacher is being adaptive. There also needs to be a pathway to experts in a school, and that is where the SENCO comes in.

[Lord Forsyth of Drumlean (Con)]

My Lords, I declare an interest as I have a family member who is affected by autism and dyslexia. Does my noble friend agree that one of the problems is that before people can get support in the schools, they need a diagnosis, and getting a diagnosis is extremely difficult and takes a very long time? What are we going to do about that?

[Baroness Barran (Con)]

I agree with my noble friend that early, accurate and effective identification is critical, but schools and colleges are permitted to put in place support for children where they have identified a need, without needing to wait for a formal diagnosis.

[Baroness Kramer (LD)]

My Lords, may I press the Minister on the issue of the SENCO qualification? Do I understand correctly that, prior to this change, it was a master’s-level qualification and now it is a level 7 NVQ? Given the complexities that many of these youngsters face, can the Minister explain why that dramatic change in the level of expertise and training embedded in the qualification is government policy?

[Baroness Barran (Con)]

I can only repeat what I said in response to the earlier question. As the noble Baroness knows, the existing qualification also includes a significant research element, which is important, and SENCOs can choose, if they wish, to continue to take that. However, our emphasis is on making sure that SENCOs are equipped for the practical challenges they face day to day supporting colleagues in schools, and that this is based on the best evidence available.

School Buildings: Safety

Baroness Barran Excerpts

Tuesday 20th June 2023 Lords Chamber

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department for Education (Baroness Barran) (Con)]

My Lords, safe and well-maintained school buildings are a priority. We are actively working with the sector to help identify reinforced autoclaved aerated concrete, or RAAC. If RAAC is suspected, we commission professionals to verify its presence and assess its condition. We support schools, including with capital funding, in measures to ensure that it does not pose any immediate risk and to minimise disruption based on professional advice.

[Baroness Twycross (Lab)]

My Lords, I thank the Minister for her Answer, but the Government have already admitted that current funding will not be enough to make all schools safe. Will she tell us how long children, parents and school staff will have to wait for schools to be made safe once the data on their condition is finally released?

[Baroness Barran (Con)]

I want to be absolutely clear to the noble Baroness and the House that the department is not aware of any child or member of staff being in a school which poses an imminent safety risk. We are working as fast as is humanly possible to identify RAAC across the school estate. We sent out a questionnaire last year and nearly 90% of schools and responsible bodies have sent in their initial responses. We are working closely with the structural engineering sector to identify accurately whether RAAC is present and whether it poses a risk.

[Baroness Evans of Bowes Park (Con)]

Following on from my noble friend’s answer, is she confident that there is enough capacity among surveyors to identify RAAC in schools before, as the noble Baroness said, issues become too serious? We have had similar problems in other parts of the public sector estate, hospitals for instance, where there have been safety issues because of RAAC. Perhaps she could provide us with reassurance on this issue.

[Baroness Barran (Con)]

I thank my noble friend for her question. I hope it reassures her to know that I have met twice already the leading structural engineering firms. We have looked at different ways that we can accelerate the pace of surveys and are very confident that we will have carried out at least 600 surveys by the autumn.

[Lord Addington (LD)]

My Lords, will the Minister give us an assurance that any new school is constructed with a material that we expect to have to pull down and will not fall down before we get there?

[Baroness Barran (Con)]

I can give the House that reassurance. Not only that but any new school we construct will be net zero in operation.

[Baroness Berridge (Con)]

My Lords, obviously, responsible bodies are legally responsible for the safety of the building. They come in all shapes and sizes. It could be a very strong, robust local authority or a large multi-academy trust with a lot of expertise; conversely, it could be a local authority that is in intervention with commissioners or a trust which has only one school. Of the 10% which have not returned their surveys, can my noble friend the Minister outline how we are going to approach those responsible bodies to make sure they respond and find out whether they are in that risky category because they are weak for other reasons?

[Baroness Barran (Con)]

I do not think we can say that the 10% which have not responded are weak. We are dealing with it by running a small call centre in the department. There are organisations that we have had to contact multiple times—including, sadly, some local authorities—and we are working with MPs and others to make sure we get all the returns. We are also supporting, in slightly slower time, all trusts to improve their competency in relation to the management of their estate, including rolling out a free specialist capital adviser programme to support them in estate management.

[Lord Hendy (Lab)]

My Lords, one aspect of safety in schools is fire safety. I declare an interest as a vice-chair of the All-Party Parliamentary Fire Safety and Rescue Group. In 2007, draft guidance was given that predicted that most schools would be fitted with sprinklers and very few would not. In 2021, further draft guidance was published which predicted the contrary: that very few schools would be fitted with sprinklers. I understand the consultation on that has not been published yet and therefore the guidance has not come into effect two years later. I understand, too, that the problem is that there is a division of opinion between the department on one side, which thinks the risk is low, and the insurance industry and fire chiefs on the other, which think the risk is high. Would the Minister be content to attend a meeting of the APPG with representatives of the insurance industry and fire chiefs to see whether there is some methodology to ascertain precisely what the risk is and therefore the need or lack of it for sprinklers?

[Baroness Barran (Con)]

I would be delighted to meet the APPG, but I remind the noble Lord that there are 67,000 buildings on the school estate and about 450 fires a year, 90% of which cause no significant damage.

[Lord Dobbs (Con)]

Does my noble friend agree that a much greater danger to children in our schools comes from a judge’s ruling last week that parents are not allowed to know about the relationships and sex education that their children are given? This is a hugely controversial area. Parents may knock on the door of a school to ask what is being taught to their children, and can be denied. Does my noble friend accept that this is a nonsense that undermines the heart of family responsibilities and parental authority? Would the Government please do something quickly to make clear what parental rights are in knowing what their children are being taught?

[Baroness Barran (Con)]

I am delighted to be able to let my noble friend know that the Government have already acted on this. We wrote to every school to be clear about exactly that relationship between parent and school and that trust, particularly on these very sensitive topics, is essential. Schools should not enter into arrangements with third parties that prohibit them sharing curriculum materials with parents.

[Baroness Hussein-Ece (LD)]

To get back to the Question about the safety of school buildings, can the Minister give an assurance that schools deemed to be at risk have been made safe or at least closed until urgent repairs can take place? Is she also aware that teachers leaving the profession cite the state of school buildings and the environment in which they work as one of their reasons for leaving?

[Baroness Barran (Con)]

I am very happy to give the noble Baroness reassurance on that point. To be clear, the returns that we have had from schools about whether they suspect RAAC on their estate indicate that a significant percentage believe they do, but then when we send the surveyors in, in fact they do not. When RAAC is identified, some poses a risk, but some does not. In every case where a risk is posed, whether in a single store cupboard or a whole block, we send our team in and work closely with the school, trust and local authority to provide both practical and financial support to address issues as quickly as possible.

[Lord Laming (CB)]

My Lords, the noble Baroness knows that schools have made great progress on incorporating children who have special needs of all kinds. Sometimes, the buildings are an impediment to this. Has work been undertaken to ensure that schools are adapted to meet the needs of children with very special needs?

[Baroness Barran (Con)]

That is extremely important. Access to and the shape of a building should never be an impediment to a child’s learning. That is more straightforward in the new schools we are building, but we are making adjustments and supporting schools through our existing capital programmes to address exactly the needs that the noble Lord raises.

Lifelong Learning (Higher Education Fee Limits) Bill

Baroness Barran Excerpts

2nd reading
Monday 19th June 2023 Lords Chamber

Moved by

[Baroness Barran]

That the Bill be now read a second time.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department for Education (Baroness Barran) (Con)]

My Lords, I am delighted to be back in the Chamber to bring forward another significant piece of legislation for our skills reform agenda. I am particularly looking forward to the speeches today from my noble friend Lord Sewell of Sanderstead and the right reverend Prelate the Bishop of Sheffield.

This Government want learners to be able to access courses in a more flexible way in order to fit study around work, family and personal commitments and to retrain as their circumstances and the economy change. The Lifelong Learning (Higher Education Fee Limits) Bill will help create a new route for people who require student finance for study at levels 4 to 6 in further and higher education institutions. It will make it easier for people to study flexibly, preventing learners being charged disproportionately for choosing to study in a way that suits them, and ultimately to acquire skills that can transform their lives.

This Bill does three key things. First, it will allow for fee limits for all types of courses to be set in a consistent and appropriate way through enabling fee limits to be based on credits rather than academic years. What this means in practice is that modules and short courses, as well as more “traditional” degree courses, will be priced according to the amount of learning they contain. This will create a more flexible system and will go a long way to encourage more people into post-18 education.

Secondly, this Bill introduces the concept of a course year, rather than an academic year. This allows fee limits for courses and modules to align accurately with the start date of a student’s study. Doing so will mean that, for example, if a course starts on 1 October, the fee limit will also apply from 1 October rather than from one of four fixed dates, as it does within the current academic year system.

Finally, this Bill will allow the Secretary of State to set a cap on the total number of credits that can be charged for each type of course. For example, fees charged for a certificate of higher education will be capped at 120 credits, whereas a diploma of higher education will be capped at 240 credits. This will prevent learners being charged unfairly for their studies and ensure that fee limits remain aligned with current rates, based on standard practices.

The Bill includes a number of delegated powers to enable the credit-based fee limits system to work. These powers essentially allow the numerical detail which will determine a financial fee limit for each course year, such as per-credit financial limits and course year maximum numbers of credits, to be set out in regulations. This mirrors the existing approach in Schedule 2 to HERA and is not unique to fee limits. It is important that these numerical values are set out in secondary legislation so that further primary legislation is not needed to amend them when reviewed. There are no Henry VIII powers in this Bill.  

Noble Lords will have seen that the Government have now published their response to the public consultation on the details of the wider lifelong loan entitlement—also known as the LLE—and I thank those Lords who have taken the time to discuss this response with me in detail. While the Bill enables us to deliver the LLE, it is worth emphasising that its scope is tightly focused on changing the system by which fee limits are set.

The LLE will transform access to post-18 education and skills by providing individuals with a loan entitlement equivalent to four years of post-18 study, £37,000 in today’s fees, which can be used to fund courses and modules at levels 4 to 6 over the course of their working lives. It is estimated that at least 80% of the workforce of 2030 are already in work today. We want to give them the opportunity to upskill and reskill over their careers in order to progress and adapt to changing skills needs and employment patterns.

By putting level 4 and 5 courses on the same funding basis as traditional undergraduate degrees, the LLE aims to give people a real choice in how and when they study to acquire new life-changing skills. This Bill ensures that it costs the same for a learner to study a qualification module by module as it would to study that same qualification in one go.

In the consultation response, we said we would take a phased approach to the funding of modules, focusing first on modules of higher technical qualifications and some levels 4 and 5 advanced learner loan-funded courses, with new checks to ensure that they meet employer need. I shall give the House some examples of courses in scope for modular funding. They include the following HTQs: the higher national diploma in construction management for England at level 5; the certificate of higher education in cyber security at level 4; and a foundation degree in science—professional practice in health and social care—at level 5. The crux of our approach to introducing funding for modules is based on courses that we know have good employer returns.

Focusing initially on certain high-value level 4 and 5 courses will allow us to test and learn from the approach before extending funding, where appropriate, to modules of other high-quality courses at levels 4, 5 and 6. We also want to address the skills gap identified by the Augar review, which is overwhelmingly at levels 4 and 5, with fewer than 70,000 students a year doing levels 4 and 5 compared to almost 470,000 doing undergraduate degrees. OECD analysis suggested in 2021 that only 9% of all adults aged 25 to 64 in the United Kingdom hold a level 4 or 5 as their highest qualification, compared to around 15% of adults in France and 36% in Canada.

Overall, data on wage returns for levels 4 to 5 is compelling. The 2020 data from the Centre for Vocational Education Research shows that higher-level qualifications lead on average to better earnings outcomes than finishing education at level 3, for both men and women. For example, the average female level 5 achiever would earn approximately 57% more than would be the case if they stopped at level 3. This equates to roughly a £9,800 increase in annual earnings at age 26.

In order to support learners in understanding and deciding how to utilise the opportunities provided by these reforms, the LLE personal account will show their learning balance as well as clearly signposting the courses and modules that they can access to propel themselves into learning and to further their career aspirations. Whether they are studying a three-year degree, a higher technical qualification or another level 4 or 5 course, and regardless of whether they are studying at a university or a college, every student should be confident that higher education will help them to succeed in life. This is especially important at a time of challenging economic circumstances.

I am delighted to bring the Bill before the House today and that we have reached this pivotal stage in driving a transformation of post-18 study. This legislation will form a vital part of the LLE, which as a whole will allow students in generations to come more flexible access to courses, helping them to train, upskill or retrain alongside work, family and personal commitments, and as both their circumstances and the economy change. I beg to move.

--- Later in debate ---

[Baroness Barran (Con)]

My Lords, I thank all noble Lords for their contributions today. In particular, I thank the right reverend Prelate the Bishop of Sheffield for his description of lifelong learning within a Christian context—I think he will agree with me that just sitting in this House listening to colleagues extends one’s lifelong learning still further—and my noble friend Lord Sewell. I am not sure about his football metaphor, but if he is secretly a spin bowler, I think he might find himself popular at Edgbaston in the next day or two. In all seriousness, I look forward to working with and listening to him, with his great experience in education, and benefiting from that.

Given the breadth of your Lordships’ contributions, I will not be able to cover everything in the time available to me, but I will write and address the points raised this afternoon. I reassure the noble Baroness, Lady Twycross, that I will try to address at least some of the points that she rightly raised. I acknowledge and thank noble Lords for the spirit of the House and the way in which they are all aiming, in the noble Baroness’s words, to make the Bill the best it can be.

I start with the credit transfer issues raised by the noble Baroness, Lady Twycross, the noble Lords, Lord Stevens of Birmingham and Lord Rees of Ludlow, and others. The Government will not impose credit transfer arrangements but will instead seek to facilitate credit transfer through other methods, including through the introduction of the requirement for providers to produce, in response to the noble Baroness’s request for clarification, a standardised transcript on the completion of individual modules—I hope that also addresses the question asked by the noble Lord, Lord Rees—and, to respond to points raised by the noble Baroness, Lady Garden, in relation to information, advice and guidance about the personal account where possible. There are numerous examples of good practice in the sector with regard to credit transfer, including provider-led initiatives to create credit transfer partnerships. These include collaborative mapping and shared curricula of certain programmes—including, of course, in healthcare.

Credit transfer across higher and further education will be very important. We are working with providers to understand how credit transfer can be encouraged without jeopardising the autonomy of the sector, giving learners the flexibility to study at a pace that is right for them while balancing their other commitments. Of course, this will require input from both government and providers to be successful, and that is happening.

The noble Lord, Lord Stevens, raised a specific question about why some courses, such as nursing, are not suited to the credit-based system. I think he expressed a concern about whether that would limit flexibility, but our understanding is that it will not. Nursing degrees do not use credits in a consistent way—as the noble Lord understands much better than I do—due to variations in the credits assigned to placements, and because credit-bearing units can cut across multiple years. We will address this by using a default number of credits to calculate the fee limit for each course year, and students will continue to receive loan funding—but I would be happy to meet with the noble Lord if he thinks that there are flaws in our analysis.

I permitted myself a small smile at the fact that the House was divided on the merits or otherwise of delegated powers in relation to the Bill. The noble Baroness, Lady Blackstone, asked about the timing of the secondary legislation. We expect the secondary legislation covering the fee limit and the LLE to be laid by autumn 2024, in time for implementation in 2025. The noble Baroness, Lady Twycross, suggested that not all the delegated powers were subject to the affirmative procedure, but all the fee-setting powers are subject to it. As I mentioned in my opening speech, the powers mirror what is already in HERA.

The noble Baroness, Lady Wilcox, and the noble Lord, Lord Watson, asked whether there was a risk that the Government could arbitrarily change the number of learning hours in a credit. As my right honourable friend the Minister for Skills and Higher Education said in the other place, the Government do not intend to change the number of learning hours in a credit unless standards in the sector change. Learning hours are, and should continue to be, based on sector-led standards.

The noble Lord, Lord Addington, and others asked whether the Government were working closely with providers and stakeholders to inform policy decisions. I reassure your Lordships that that is the case.

If I may, I will write to the noble Earl, Lord Kinnoull, on the issues he raised around devolution. He is right that policy detail is discussed very regularly with the devolved Governments, but I am happy to write and answer some of his quiz questions about different students in different jurisdictions for different periods of time.

As for the speed of the rollout, a number of noble Lords raised their frustration at the slow pace. The noble Earl, Lord Kinnoull, referred to the remarks of the noble Baroness, Lady Wolf, in 2015. I will take this opportunity to thank the noble Baroness for her very important work in this area. As I think your Lordships are aware, full courses will be LLE-funded from 2025. That includes full degree courses, higher technical qualifications and any advanced learner loan-funded qualifications where there is clear learner demand and employer endorsement.

The Government will be taking a phased approach to modular funding, making sure that there is clear employer demand and that they address skills gaps to support learners into the jobs that employers need. As your Lordships discussed, the initial focus from the start of the academic year 2025-26 will be on modules of higher technical qualifications and modules of technical qualifications at levels 4 and 5 currently funded through the ALL system where there is a clear line of sight to an occupational standard and employer support. That will allow us to test and learn from the approach before extending funding, where appropriate, to modules of other high-quality courses at levels 4, 5 and 6. I remind your Lordships that the Augar review was very clear in its recommendations to focus on the skills gap identified at levels 4 and 5.

A number of your Lordships, including my noble friend Lord Johnson, recommended exploring expansion of the Bill’s scope in relation both to micro-credentials and to levels 3 to 7. I understand the flexibility that your Lordships seek to create by including micro-credentials, but we have been clear that, in the words of Sir Philip Augar:

“A 30 credit course, in our view, represents a significant amount of teaching and learning, and is an appropriate minimum for upskilling or reskilling. It is also short enough to be combined fairly easily with work and other commitments”.


I remind the House that modules of a smaller size—my noble friend referred to modules of 10 to 15 credits—provided they can be bundled together in a single entry from a parent course to meet 30 credits, can be funded to allow sufficient flexibility for retraining. So funding would be available for, for example, a 20-credit module and a 10-credit module of the same course combined. Providers or awarding bodies are free to consider restructuring their courses into credit-bearing modules of different sizes.

Turning to the issues of inclusion of level 3 and 7 courses, raised by several noble lords, including the noble Lords, Lord Blunkett and Lord Shipley, and the noble Baroness, Lady Twycross, I understand why the House is probing this issue, but there are three main reasons for the focus the Government have announced on level 4 to 6 courses. The first relates to how the LLE itself will apply to level 7 courses; the second relates to the existing funding for level 3 courses, in particular; and the third relates to the economic opportunities created by greater uptake of levels 4 and 5. Of course, in the longer term the Government will consider how funding for level 3 provision can best work where individuals are not eligible for grant funding, as part of the next spending review.

I will start with level 7 qualifications. The LLE will be the student finance system for all study at levels 4 to 6 from 2025, across HE and FE. Integrated master’s courses will also be in scope. My noble friend Lord Willetts asked about the Government’s appetite for four-year honours degrees. One form of that, of course, is an integrated master’s. In 2021-22, there were just over 19,000 English-domiciled entrants to integrated master’s degrees, and these students will continue to benefit from this level of study via the LLE. More broadly, level 7 and above are already served by separate student finance products such as postgraduate master’s and doctoral loans.

In contrast, level 3 courses are funded for a range of individuals through other funding streams, such as free courses for jobs and the adult education budget. In addition, individuals will still be able to take out advanced learner loans for level 3 courses. The adult education budget includes a statutory entitlement to full funding for eligible adult learners aged 19 to 23 undertaking their first full qualification at level 3, and the free courses for jobs offer introduced in April 2021 gives eligible adults the chance to access high-value level 3 qualifications for free, which can support them to gain wages for a better job. Finally, the point has been made by your Lordships that—and as I said my opening speech, we believe that—there is a very strong economic case for focusing on levels 4 to 6, given the skills gaps we face in the economy.

A number of your Lordships—my noble friend Willetts, the noble Lord, Lord Stevens, and the right reverend Prelate the Bishop of Sheffield—talked about what perhaps I may describe as the implementation challenge from both a supply and demand perspective. The noble Baronesses, Lady Wilcox and Lady Thornton, both asked about maintenance loans for distance learners. Our emphasis, with the exception of those with a disability who, as the noble Lord, Lord Watson, pointed out, are eligible for those loans, is on making sure that these courses are as flexible as possible, including, potentially, distance learning. I think there was some confusion in the House about the status of online learning, which is of course part of distance learning, as rightly said by my noble friend Lord Dundee. Our emphasis is on making sure that these courses work for those leaving school or who are already in employment, and who have that flexibility. There is an enormous job to be done by the Government and providers in raising awareness of those opportunities, making sure that people feel confident to take them up and are clear on the improvement they can make to their future employability, earnings power and satisfaction in the workplace.

On the questions from the noble Lord, Lord Stevens, and others about the cost of delivering this provision, costs are relatively fixed in the provision of these courses, so volume will be extremely important to their viability from a commercial perspective. I again suggest to the House that there is something in our absolute focus on where we are starting that aligns with the pressures that providers face, in order to make sure that these courses are commercially viable, rather than spreading a large number of learners very thinly across multiple courses.

I shall try to speed up a little, the House will be relieved to know. On the quality of provision, which I know my noble friend Lord Johnson was concerned about and which the noble Lord, Lord Rees, raised, the Office for Students will continue to regulate providers and uphold quality. It will consult on introducing a new registration category for providers of courses that were formerly funded by advanced learner loans—including initial and ongoing conditions that would be appropriate—which we hope will support quality. On my noble friend Lord Johnson’s point about all future modules being derived from existing qualifications, to be clear, they will need to derive from an HE qualification, but not necessarily in future from an existing one, although clearly the initial modules are likely to do so.

A number of questions were raised about the short course trial, and perhaps it would be most helpful if I set out our learning from the trial in a letter. But I will include in it a link to an excellent blog, written by Professor Peck from Nottingham Trent University about the trial, on the HEPI website, for your Lordships’ interest.

On part-time learners and maintenance loans, a point raised by a number of your Lordships, the LLE maintenance offer will be available for part-time study below level 6. That is a major change and positive step forward from the current system, as the vast majority of part-time level 4 and 5 courses do not currently qualify for the maintenance loans. Although I absolutely heard the regret from a number of your Lordships about maintenance in respect of distance learning, I hope it will be acknowledged that this is a really important step forward.

My noble friend Lord Willetts asked how dropout rates will be measured in the new system. The Office for Students plans to consult next year more broadly on the B3s—the quality or performance measures for modules. It will be consulting on how they can be implemented, and there will be an initial call for evidence this year.

There is so much that I have not covered, and I apologise to the House for that. I will finish where the noble Baroness, Lady Wilcox, started in asking about the Government’s vision for the Bill. I stress the importance that the Government place on the Bill; your Lordships may have noticed that my right honourable friend the Minister for Skills and Higher Education has been present throughout the debate. I will steal the words of the noble Lord, Lord Blunkett, if I may: our vision for the Bill is that it is part of the jigsaw he described but also that it will help to deliver to every individual in this country clarity on their personal ladder of opportunity and on the fact that they have hope and a real sense of opportunity for themselves in their career. Through it, we will transform the productivity of this country.

Bill read a second time and committed to a Grand Committee.

Archbishops’ Commission on Families and Households: Love Matters Report

Baroness Barran Excerpts

Tuesday 13th June 2023 Lords Chamber

[The Lord Bishop of Durham]

To ask His Majesty’s Government what assessment they have made of the report of the Archbishops’ Commission on Families and Households, ‘Love Matters’, published on 26 April; and what steps they plan to take in response to its findings.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department for Education (Baroness Barran) (Con)]

My Lords, I thank all members of the Archbishops’ Commission on Families and Households for their report, which underlines the importance of love in family life. This has particular importance for those children with a disrupted family life, hence the focus in our recent strategy for children in the social care system, Stable Homes, Built on Love. We will consider the report’s recommendations alongside the Government’s response to the Office of the Children’s Commissioner Family Review.

[The Lord Bishop of Durham]

I thank the noble Baroness for her Answer. There are five key messages in the archbishops’ commission report. The second is that relationships need to be supported all the way through life. Obviously, relationships education in school is one thing, but the thrust is how we support adults in relationships. Adults have to take responsibility for themselves, but there are ways in which support can be offered. How might the Government encourage relationship support, particularly at life transition points?

[Baroness Barran (Con)]

The right reverend Prelate makes an important point, and the question about when and how the state gets involved in adult relationships is obviously a very sensitive one. Underpinning our approach we have the family test, which means that all departments need to think about the impact of their policies on families, including at the key transition points which the right reverend Prelate referred to. Where the state must be involved in adult relationships, we strive to do so sensitively and effectively. Where families want to engage with the state, those services should feel accessible and non-judgmental.

[Baroness Taylor of Stevenage (Lab)]

My Lords, I echo the thanks given to the archbishops for their report, which is a thoughtful and compassionate approach to putting families at the heart of policy-making. One of the key recommendations of the report is to give every child the best possible start in life. Successive cuts to local government funding and other funding have decimated the provision of the Sure Start programme, started under the last Labour Government to provide comprehensive and vital support to children and their families. In the wake of Covid, such support is more important than ever. Will the Minister outline how future funding settlements will take account of the archbishops’ recommendations?

[Baroness Barran (Con)]

My Lords, some of the work that we are doing has already anticipated the recommendations, including the one to which the noble Baroness referred. She will be aware of our significant investment of around £300 million to enable 75 local authorities to create family hubs designed to give children the best start in life and of our childcare reforms which include £4.1 billion of investment by 2027-28 to fund 30 hours of free childcare for children over the age of nine months.

[Lord Farmer (Con)]

My Lords, as co-founder of the Family Hubs Network, I am pleased that the archbishops’ report, Love Matters, mentions family hubs more than 30 times and recommends that they also help separating families. The Ministry of Justice’s mediation reforms for England and Wales anticipate family hubs helping separated or separating parents to access services. However, there are not yet family hubs in Wales. While recognising that social care is a devolved matter, how might the Government encourage Wales to integrate family support in this way?

[Baroness Barran (Con)]

Like my noble friend, the Government are committed to championing family hubs. I will ensure that my officials engage with colleagues in the devolved Administration to share evidence and best practice about them.

[Baroness Armstrong of Hill Top (Lab)]

My Lords, it is very clear that despite the very important report from the archbishops’ commission, and indeed other reports, the Government have still not grasped the seriousness of this issue. In the north-east, we now have more children in families living in poverty than ever before, or at least in recorded time, and more than elsewhere in the country. It is also the region where the heaviest cuts to local government spending are and where the difference between children who are achieving and those who are not has grown and remains starkly difficult. Do the Government begin to grasp the nature of the problem in areas and regions such as the north- east and what are they going to do to work with those of us from the north-east, including the right reverend Prelate, on how we tackle these urgent issues?

[Baroness Barran (Con)]

I am pleased to say that I was in the north-east on Friday visiting schools in Hartlepool and was very impressed. The noble Baroness rolls her eyes, but I can only tell her what I saw on the ground, which was teachers working tirelessly with children, children with aspiration striving, and opportunities in their local area which the Government are supporting. Time does not permit me to go through all the initiatives that the Government are taking, but in everything from children’s social care to levelling-up areas to the education investment areas we are very focused on exactly the areas the noble Baroness cites.

[Baroness Burt of Solihull (LD)]

My Lords, on a slightly less serious note, the Beatles sang “All You Need Is Love”, but does the Minister agree that while love matters, we need more than that to achieve the worthy recommendations in the report? Does she agree that, specifically, we need more compassion, more political will and more hard cash? Can she tell the House which, if any, of the recommendations the Government are minded to implement and how much additional hard cash they have set aside to achieve that?

[Baroness Barran (Con)]

In terms of which recommendations we plan to implement, I refer the noble Baroness to my original Answer, which is that we will be responding as part of our response to the Family Review by the Office of the Children’s Commissioner and will reflect at that point on the recommendations in this excellent report. I absolutely agree with the noble Baroness about compassion, and I agree with her about hard cash. That is why we are making such a significant investment in the children’s social care system, in our support for early years and in children with special educational needs so every child in this country has the best start in life.

[Baroness Deech (CB)]

My Lords, one of the transition points in a family is divorce and, predictably, no-fault divorce has pushed the rate up. At a seminar yesterday we heard evidence not only on how acrimony over money on divorce depletes children’s assets but on how the bitterness in that process has a lasting effect on their lives. When will the Government set out a timetable for reforming financial provision on divorce and will they ensure that child maintenance is paid? It is shamefully neglected at the moment.

[Baroness Barran (Con)]

On the noble Baroness’s last point, I know that my colleagues in DWP are making important progress in terms of the payment of child maintenance and I think they would share the noble Baroness’s sentiments when it is not paid. In terms of financial provision on divorce, in April this year the Government asked the Law Commission to carry out a review of the law in this area. It will look at whether the current law on financial provision provides a cohesive framework in which parties can expect fair and sufficiently certain outcomes.

[Lord Brownlow of Shurlock Row (Con)]

My Lords, I declare my interest as a patron of Dingley’s Promise and thank my noble friend the Minister for her comments on investment and funding. I particularly congratulate the Government on their investment through the safety valve fund and acknowledge that £6.9 million has just been given to Wokingham Borough Council, which is the next-but-one authority to where I live.

[Baroness Barran (Con)]

I am in such shock to have such appreciation for the Government’s actions, but I thank my noble friend for his comments.

[Lord Sikka (Lab)]

My Lords, inequalities identified in the archbishops’ commission’s report ultimately blight life. Last year, a study estimated that the Government’s austerity policies caused 335,000 excess deaths between 2012 and 2019 alone. Will the Minister answer just two questions? First, what forgiveness have the Government sought from the families of individuals killed by their policies? Secondly, will the Minister ensure that all Bills from now on are accompanied by an assessment showing their capacity to cause premature death?

[Baroness Barran (Con)]

I am happy to look at the research to which the noble Lord refers, but my own experience of looking at linking mortality to policy is that it is an extremely complicated business and I take exception to the suggestion that any Government—and this Government—would ever intentionally do anything that they believed would harm their people.

Free Music Education

Baroness Barran Excerpts

Monday 12th June 2023 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Fleet]

To ask His Majesty’s Government what steps they are taking to provide free music education for all children aged five to 14.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department for Education (Baroness Barran) (Con)]

My Lords, this Government recognise the importance of all pupils receiving a broad and ambitious music curriculum. As set out in the national plan for music education, we expect schools to teach at least one hour of music a week. We have committed £70 million per annum for music hubs until 2025, alongside £25 million for musical instruments. We will consider future funding for the next spending review in due course.

[Baroness Fleet (Con)]

My Lords, I thank my noble friend the Minister for that Answer and declare my interests as registered, including as former chair of the national plan for music education. The national plan for music education is ambitious, but does it not need to be well funded to succeed? The Department for Education currently provides £76 million a year for music education, but there are nearly 7 million children aged between five and 14 in our schools, all of whom should be learning to play an instrument, sing and many other things besides. We can all do the maths: children from disadvantaged families are missing out. They simply cannot afford to learn to play a musical instrument.

What is the logic of going for growth in the creative sector, which includes music, if there is so little support for the pipeline of talent? When do the Government plan to provide sufficient funds to ensure that children from low-income families can fulfil their potential as musicians and become part of the pipeline of talent for our brilliant conservatoires and orchestras?

[Baroness Barran (Con)]

I thank my noble friend for her part in chairing the national plan for music education. She will understand much better than I that money is important but not the only thing that allows children from less advantaged backgrounds to participate in music. Every child is offered the opportunity for a range of musical experiences at schools. We have funding for the Music and Dance Scheme, for particularly talented young people who have been identified, of more than £30 million this year. We will also publish more about our funding of the music progression fund shortly.

[Baroness Whitaker (Lab)]

Did the Minister take note of the report some years ago by Darren Henley, which gave evidence that music education opens a door to all other kinds of learning? Should not all children have this benefit?

[Baroness Barran (Con)]

I completely agree, which is why all children do have this benefit and why music education is part of the national curriculum from key stages 1 to 3.

[Lord Wallace of Saltaire (LD)]

My Lords, I declare an interest as the former chair of the VOCES8 Foundation, which is a music education charity. We have found from going into primary schools that a large number of them have no teachers with any musical expertise. If that is the situation, it is difficult to do things such as getting the whole school to sing together, which clearly improves the entire atmosphere, let alone encouraging the more talented people. Are the Government willing to commit to ensure that every primary school has at least one teacher with basic musical training?

[Baroness Barran (Con)]

I understand the point that the noble Lord makes, but the data for 2021-22 shows that more than 86,000 hours were spent teaching music in secondary schools—I know the noble Lord referred to primary schools—which is more than at any time since 2014-15. The number of teachers has also increased since that date and now stands at more than 7,000, of whom 83% have a relevant post-A-level qualification.

[Lord Berkeley of Knighton (CB)]

My Lords, the aspirations of the plan are admirable, but surely we need to see less reliance on hubs and more reliance on actual music in schools. The best way to do that is to get music back on the EBacc, of course. I realise that is perhaps a forlorn hope at the moment, but will the Minister tell me how the Government are going to find the right number of teachers, especially those trained to deliver music in schools?

[Baroness Barran (Con)]

The noble Lord is right that teacher recruitment, along with recruitment in many sectors, is a real challenge at the moment. But we are supporting schools, and I suggest to the noble Lord that maybe it is a both/and: music hubs have an important part to play, as does direct delivery in schools, which the hubs support. The model music curriculum introduced in March 2021 helps support schools in that delivery.

[Lord Vaizey of Didcot (Con)]

My Lords, I congratulate my noble friend Lady Fleet on her excellent work on the national plan for music education. When we first worked on the first national plan back in 2012, one of the things we did was to incorporate the In Harmony programme conceived by Julian Lloyd Webber, started by the last Labour Government with great foresight and carried on by the Conservative Government. I simply bring to my noble friend’s attention how absolutely outstanding this programme is, particularly in giving children not just a music education but extraordinary life chances in some of the most deprived areas of the country. I urge her to continue to support it as the music education plan develops.

--- Later in debate ---

[Baroness Barran (Con)]

My noble friend is absolutely right and I thank him very much for drawing this to the attention of the House.

[Baroness Wilcox of Newport (Lab)]

My Lords, in Wales the National Music Service is carrying out a review of the terms and conditions for local authority-hosted music service teachers, commencing this autumn. It will look at whether the lack of teacher retention and pay is a factor in delivering good music education throughout all key stages. Have the UK Government thought of doing something similar in England?

[Baroness Barran (Con)]

We have just published a national plan for music education, Arts Council England has just carried out a consultation review of our music hub approach and we have published a new model music curriculum, so it is fair to say that this area has received a lot of attention.

[Lord Shipley (LD)]

My Lords, in an earlier reply, the Minister said that every child has access to a range of musical experiences. Can she confirm that that extends to a right of every child to learn a musical instrument for free?

[Baroness Barran (Con)]

I think the noble Lord knows the answer to his question. Music lessons are an area in which schools are allowed, with certain restrictions—for example, children who are in care have an absolute right to free musical instrument lessons—to charge if the lesson is at the request of the pupil’s parents.

[The Earl of Clancarty (CB)]

My Lords, the Minister repeatedly tells us that the EBacc has had no effect on the arts, including music, in schools. How, then, will she account for the fall in GCSE music entries of 27% between 2010 and 2022, and the further expected fall of 12% in the last year?

[Baroness Barran (Con)]

I encourage the noble Earl to look at both the GCSE and the technical award figures, which have stayed relatively stable at about 8% of the pupil population over the last four years. I also point to our absolutely extraordinary and thriving creative industries which, despite the House’s concerns, appear to be able to recruit just the people they need.

[Baroness Fraser of Craigmaddie (Con)]

My Lords, dance should be as valued as music in education yet, according to recent research by One Dance UK, over the last decade dance has been marginalised as an educational subject. World-class organisations such as Rambert have produced fantastic resources, such as Rambert CREATE. Will the Minister commit to ensuring the place of dance within the creative arts and the curriculum, perhaps through working with organisations such as Rambert?

[Baroness Barran (Con)]

I thank my noble friend for her suggestion. The department is very open to working with organisations such as Rambert and is very grateful to them for the work they do. Dance is included within the physical education curriculum and it includes specific requirements at key stages 1 through 3. Schools have flexibility about how they deliver this curriculum, but I would be happy to meet my noble friend and follow up her suggestion.

[Baroness McIntosh of Hudnall (Lab)]

My Lords, in her last but one answer, the Minister observed that the creative industries do not have any trouble in recruiting. I point out to her that they do. There is a significant skills shortage across the creative industries, which causes considerable concern. She might not necessarily agree, but many people believe that a lot of that is to do with the fact that the arts, and in particular music, are not given the privileged status within our schools that she imagines they should have and tells the House they have.

[Baroness Barran (Con)]

I apologise if I gave the impression that there are no skills pressures in the creative industries. I just pointed out that our creative industries are world beating and are able to recruit talent in a way that allows them to be so.

School Uniform Policies

Baroness Barran Excerpts

Monday 12th June 2023 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Wilcox of Newport]

To ask His Majesty’s Government, following the recommendation of the Welsh Minister for Education that school governing bodies should review uniform policies, what assessment they have made of the case for doing this in England.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department for Education (Baroness Barran) (Con)]

My Lords, following the publication of statutory guidance in November 2021, all schools in England should already have reviewed their uniform policy and made changes to ensure their uniforms are affordable for parents. The Cost of School Uniforms guidance came into force in September 2022. It requires schools to ensure their uniform costs are affordable and that parents get the best value for money. Schools should be fully compliant with the guidance by September 2023.

[Baroness Wilcox of Newport (Lab)]

I thank the Minister for her Answer and the statutory guidance being put in place. But the Government have never been clear about how they are going to assess the success of the guidance. Has it reduced costs for parents? Are schools complying with it? Are stronger policies such as the ones we have in place in Wales needed? Can the Minister please tell us whether there are any plans to review its implementation?

[Baroness Barran (Con)]

In terms of complying with the guidance, which is obviously statutory, any concerns that a parent might have about a school’s uniform policy need to be raised with the school in the first instance through its complaints process. If the parent is then unhappy with the outcome of their complaint, they can, of course, raise it with the department.

[Baroness Ritchie of Downpatrick (Lab)]

My Lords, can the Minister indicate what monitoring the Government undertake with schools in relation to the affordability of school uniforms? Many families face a difficult cost of living crisis.

[Baroness Barran (Con)]

I absolutely understand that families face a cost of living crisis, which is why the Government provided £94 billion of support for households with those higher costs across 2022-23 and 2023-24. On how we ensure compliance, I can only repeat what I said to the noble Baroness.

[Baroness Thornhill (LD)]

My Lords, in my long experience in education, schools are very much alive to the needs of their youngsters, particularly with regard to school uniforms. Does the Minister agree with me that the real problem here is that the noble Baroness is asking for a national government edict on school uniform? Surely this should be a matter for local education authorities, whose roles and responsibilities have been weakened and reduced over many years.

[Baroness Barran (Con)]

The Government believe that it should be even more local than that. I agree with the first part of the noble Baroness’s question: schools absolutely know their communities. We very much encourage schools to work with their parent bodies to establish their school uniform policies and to work out what suits them.

[Lord Cormack (Con)]

Does my noble friend agree that it is important to allow children to have a sense of identity and belonging, with which uniforms help very much? What is being done to encourage schools that have a recycling policy? That is terribly important and can significantly reduce the cost.

[Baroness Barran (Con)]

I agree with my noble friend’s first point, but we are encouraging schools to identify elements of their branded uniform that are low cost, finding their identity through a tie, perhaps, rather than a blazer. Our guidance is clear about promoting second-hand uniforms, which many students prefer because of the environmental impact.

[Baroness Bennett of Manor Castle (GP)]

My Lords, given that many forecast an extremely hot summer, with heatwaves, and given that our uniforms were designed for another age in many cases, will the Minister encourage others to follow the lead of Hampshire County Council—which suggested that schools should adapt uniform rules and consider adapting start and finish times, and outside activities—to acknowledge the threat presented by our rising temperature levels?

[Baroness Barran (Con)]

As I said, schools know their communities, and we trust them to make the right judgments for their pupils and staff.

[Baroness McIntosh of Hudnall (Lab)]

My Lords, in her response to the noble Lord, Lord Cormack, the noble Baroness mentioned environmental sustainability. Will she accept that the cheapest clothes available, not just for school uniforms but in many other situations, are on the whole made from the least environmentally sustainable fabrics? Will she accept that, if there is to be an increase in recycling and reusing school uniforms—which I think we all agree would be very good—it would be very much in everyone’s interests if they were made from the highest-quality fabrics? They would then last longer in the recycling process.

[Baroness Barran (Con)]

We have to strike a balance for parents who need to send their children to school in a uniform that fits and is suitable, encouraging them to use second-hand uniforms wherever possible, while of course considering the environment.

Schools: Curriculum Update

Baroness Barran Excerpts

Thursday 8th June 2023 Lords Chamber

[Lord Holmes of Richmond (Con)]

My Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question standing in my name on the Order Paper and declare my technology interests as set out in the register.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department for Education (Baroness Barran) (Con)]

My Lords, the Government have no plans to launch a commission to review the curriculum. Data literacy is covered within mathematics, science, computing and geography; digital literacy within computing, and relationships, sex and health education; and financial literacy within citizenship and mathematics. Relationships, sex and health education, and citizenship, directly support the development of character and resilience, and schools can reinforce personal development in other curriculum subjects and through their extracurricular enrichment offer.

[Lord Holmes of Richmond (Con)]

My Lords, if AI is to human intellect what steam was to human strength, your Lordships will see the extent of the issue. Steam literally changed time. This is just AI; when it is considered alongside the other emerging technologies, issues around data and privacy, the platforms and the approaching metaverse, is it not clear that it is high time to launch a commission to consider a complete overhaul of the curriculum? It should enable young people—ultimately, all people—to be safe, secure and successful, optimising the opportunity for human talent to lead technology.

[Baroness Barran (Con)]

I agree with my noble friend’s point about the importance of data and AI and how they may transform many aspects of our lives. The Prime Minister has been absolutely clear about our national commitment to be a leader in this space. There is a great deal of work going on across government but, in the interim, we are absolutely committed to elements within the curriculum that deliver on all the issues my noble friend raises.

[Baroness Thornton (Lab)]

My Lords, everyone would agree on the need for a relevant curriculum, so the noble Lord, Lord Holmes, makes a very good point, particularly on building character and resilience. Can the Minister explain to the House how children’s resilience can be built when the Public Accounts Committee report published yesterday found that the attainment gap in respect of the most disadvantaged children has continued to grow? The Government appear to have no specified measurement for the success of the additional investment in the National Tutoring Programme.

[Baroness Barran (Con)]

This country is not unique in its disadvantaged children having suffered particularly during the pandemic. We have been very clear about our vision for the National Tutoring Programme, which is particularly relevant in giving disadvantaged children access to some of the privileges enjoyed by children from more socially advantaged homes. Tutoring on its own is not enough, which is why we have made a number of commitments including, at one end of the spectrum, putting senior mental health leads in our schools and, at the other, reinforcing our commitment to sport, music and other resilience-building activities in our schools.

[Lord Singh of Wimbledon (CB)]

My Lords, does the Minister agree that the building of character and resilience does not require the appointment of a commission? Teachings of right and wrong, and of responsibility and resilience, are common in our different religions and other world views, but are, sadly, badly obscured in formal RE, with its overfocus on rituals, artefacts and the shape and size of religious buildings. Does the Minister further agree that much greater emphasis should be put on the important ethical commonalities between religions?

[Baroness Barran (Con)]

I am not sure that I agree with the noble Lord’s description of the RE curriculum, but he makes the broader point that schools play a part—along with, obviously and incredibly importantly, families—in setting the moral compass of our children and our nation’s future.

[Lord Cormack (Con)]

My Lords, when my noble friend Lord Holmes asked a similarly important Question a little while ago and I raised the importance of our schoolchildren having a real foundation in the history of their country, my noble friend replied very positively and was encouraging. Has she any further progress to report?

[Baroness Barran (Con)]

We are not changing the national curriculum, but we did a major review of it in 2014. A knowledge-rich curriculum, which evidence suggests is particularly important for children from disadvantaged communities, continues to be our focus.

[Lord Blunkett (Lab)]

My Lords, I think we all agree that there will be a point when the improvement and radical updating of the curriculum are needed. If that is to happen, putting in place the required backing for teachers to get support will be necessary. The Minister gave a very helpful answer when she talked about citizenship. Will she reflect that some of the people who have the greatest character and resilience in reality are those living in the most desperate circumstances—often a single parent abandoned by their partner with three or four children in a high-rise block? Preaching to them is not what they need.

[Baroness Barran (Con)]

I really hope that I did not give the impression that any element of preaching was going on. I absolutely recognise the description that the noble Lord gave. I just ask the House to reflect on this idea of radical improvement being needed in the curriculum. England just came fourth in the PIRLS global reading survey; we are, as we like to say in the DfE, the best in the West. That does not sound to me like a curriculum that needs radical overhaul.

[The Lord Bishop of Leeds]

My Lords, does the Minister agree that resilience is not something primarily that is taught? It is something that develops as you take what is thrown at you in the experiences of life. To that end, is any thinking going on in government about future curricula which allow for children in our schools, particularly secondary schools, to be exposed to opinions and things with which they do not agree in order that they are able to live in a world of conflicting dogmas and opinions, and do not have to run away from them?

[Baroness Barran (Con)]

The right reverend Prelate makes a very important point. The House is obviously familiar with the emphasis we have put on freedom of speech, particularly in our higher education institutions, but the skills of critical thinking, analysis and debate—which data will feed into in coming to objective and balanced views and an ability to listen to others—obviously need to start in our schools and homes.

[Lord McNally (LD)]

My Lords, these exchanges have already pinpointed the problem that the noble Lord, Lord Holmes, is trying to highlight. The skills required by the next generation to understand and deal with new technologies are real and present now. Quite frankly, the list he put forward of skills to be acquired are beyond the reach of a single department, including the Department for Education. His idea of a commission, possibly sponsored by the Prime Minister, who has skills in this area, is now needed to avoid moving into another era when most of our population are ill-equipped to deal with the technologies serving them.

[Baroness Barran (Con)]

It would help to understand some of the specific areas of concern. Data and its use are firmly embedded in the mathematics, science, geography and computing curriculums. Computing is a statutory national curriculum subject from key stage 1 to key stage 4. We have introduced, and are introducing, a number of digital-focused T-levels. The fundamental point is that, as shown in the OECD PISA surveys, without strong mathematics and reading, you cannot achieve literacy in any of these things. That is why our focus on those building blocks is so crucial.

[Baroness Sater (Con)]

My Lords, numerous reports, including the publication in February from the APPG on Financial Education for Young People, of which I am vice-chair, have consistently highlighted that the provision of financial education is severely lacking in our schools. Can the Minister tell me why the Government do not prioritise this issue, given that doing so would result in more of our children leaving school with a crucial life skill?

[Baroness Barran (Con)]

I cannot accept my noble friend’s assertion that we are not providing this effectively. We appreciate that there are some issues in the delivery of financial education—for example, we know that only 69% of secondary schools say that they teach money management. I know that reviews have shown a lack of confidence among some teachers in delivering financial education, which is why the Oak National Academy is producing more dedicated materials to support teachers. The Money and Pensions Service produced financial education guidance for schools in 2021. We are working on this across every aspect, but I reiterate that without mathematics and reading, we will not achieve financial literacy.