Children’s School Meals

Baroness Barran Excerpts

Monday 27th March 2023 Lords Chamber

[Lord Brooke of Alverthorpe]

To ask His Majesty’s Government what plans they have to review and revise the children’s school meal regulations to reduce the levels of processed sugar and to provide incentives to encourage the use of alternatives such as stevia.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department for Education (Baroness Barran) (Con)]

My Lords, the school food standards regulate for food and drink provided at lunchtime and at other times of the school day. They restrict foods high in fat, salt and sugar. We believe that the current standards provide a robust yet flexible framework to ensure that pupils in England continue to receive high-quality and nutritious food that builds healthy eating habits for life. We are keeping the standards under review, including the use of sugar and sugar alternatives.

[Lord Brooke of Alverthorpe (Lab)]

I am grateful to the Minister for saying that the Government are keeping it under review. Is she aware that we have the unhealthiest children in Europe? If the regulations are working, why is that the case? If she accepts that fact, will she go back and speak to the her department and the Department of Health and see whether we can get some progress along the lines of what happens in the Netherlands, where the producers and the Government come together to look at food reformulation, giving children healthier food and getting away from the inevitable decline, which we are suffering, into more obesity and type 2 diabetes?

[Baroness Barran (Con)]

I do recognise the figures to which the noble Lord refers with regard to the level of obesity—particularly shocking, perhaps, in our primary age children. The noble Lord will be aware that in 2019 we brought together a group of stakeholders to look at updating the standards. That was postponed for understandable reasons during Covid but my right honourable friend the Minister for School Standards is now looking at this very actively.

[Baroness Walmsley (LD)]

My Lords, is the Minister aware that nearly 1,600 children in England and Wales are suffering from type 2 diabetes—a disease that causes inflammation throughout the body and, if not treated properly, can cause kidney failure, heart attacks and other diseases in later life—and that a high proportion of these children come from the lower demographic groups? Can the Minister really say, hand on heart, that the Government are doing everything they can to address the shortcomings of the diets of poorer children in our society?

[Baroness Barran (Con)]

The Government have made a great deal of progress in this area, which is not to say that there is not more to do. The noble Baroness will be familiar with the so-called sugar tax, which has led to a decrease of almost half in the amount of sugar in soft drinks between 2015 and 2020. Most recently, we introduced regulations restricting the location of products with high fat, salt and sugar in supermarkets, which is critical in making sure that children do not access those foods.

[Baroness Jenkin of Kennington (Con)]

My Lords, one-quarter of two to 15 year-olds are obese or overweight. Despite Governments publishing 14 obesity strategies containing 689 policies between 1992 and 2020, the prevalence has not reduced. Does my noble friend accept that, unless radical changes are made to support healthier eating habits, the increasing rates of obesity and related diseases, such as diabetes, heart disease and cancer, are likely to break the NHS?

[Baroness Barran (Con)]

The Government continue to take a number of steps. The point I would make to my noble friend—she understands this better than I do—is that obesity is a fantastically complicated problem caused by a number of different factors, of which calorie intake is, obviously, one part, but activity is another. That is why we were so pleased to confirm recently the £600 million for the PE and sport premium for primary schools over the next two years.

[Lord Hunt of Kings Heath (Lab)]

My Lords, the Minister is probably aware of figures released last week, which showed that, in the early 1950s, the UK had one of the longest life expectancies in the world. Recent figures suggest that we are now 29th in the league table. Only the US is performing worse in comparative terms than the UK, largely because of diet problems. Can the Minister assure me that, in taking forward the work that she has just mentioned, the education sector will recognise that it has to work very hard with the health sector to develop huge programmes of health improvement embracing young people?

[Baroness Barran (Con)]

The Department for Education has already been working closely with our colleagues in the Department of Health. I absolutely agree with the point that the noble Lord is making.

[Baroness Boycott (CB)]

My Lords, just to correct the Minister, all new science shows that it is calorie intake of the wrong kind, such as in ultra-processed food, that causes obesity. While exercise keeps you healthy, it does not take off weight unless you are prepared to run a marathon every day. One thing the Government could do if they are serious about this is to extend the salary limit at which you can get free school meals. Currently, you have to be on universal credit, earning under £7,500—that is fantastically little—before your child gets a healthy, decent meal once a day—made up, ideally, of decent ingredients. Can the Government look at this again?

[Baroness Barran (Con)]

As the noble Baroness knows, we keep the eligibility for free school meals under constant review, but the House is also aware that eligibility for free school meals has never been higher. This Government introduced universal infant free school meals and free school meals in further education. Now, in schools, 1.9 million of the most disadvantaged pupils are eligible for free school meals.

[Lord McColl of Dulwich (Con)]

My Lords, demonising fat is the wrong attitude. Clearly, we need to avoid saturated fats but other fats are actually good for us and limit obesity, because when fat goes into the duodenum it releases hormones that inhibit the emptying of the stomach, giving us the feeling of being full, so we stop eating. Fat should not be demonised by the Department of Health or anyone else.

[Baroness Barran (Con)]

I am not aware that anyone is demonising fat, but there is a very serious issue about education. The percentage of children who are either overweight or obese rose very sharply during lockdown. We must absolutely do everything we can in our schools and health services. We also need to make sure that parents really understand the implications of what they feed their children.

[Baroness Twycross (Lab)]

My Lords, last year research from Imperial College found that ultra-processed foods accounted for 62% of the calories in school meals. Given the widespread obesity epidemic in our schools—that the Minister recognises has got worse since lockdown—and an NHS buckling under demand it can no longer meet, can the Minister tell the House when the Government will next update the current school food standards to include guidance on ultra-processed foods and other foods that could be contributing to the obesity epidemic?

[Baroness Barran (Con)]

Just to make sure that I have not confused the House, levels of obesity and children who are overweight rose very sharply during lockdown. Levels have come back, depending on the age group, to pretty much where they were pre lockdown—I just say that for clarity. I cannot say when the standards might be reviewed, but they are designed to give those in schools, and those supplying schools with school food, enough flexibility to make choices to give children healthy meals. As we heard in an earlier Question, there is also an opportunity here to make sure that we keep waste to an absolute minimum, so that the investment can go into the quality of food for children.

[Lord Tomlinson (Lab)]

But is it not true that in the days of the coalition Government, the regulations on school meals were weakened, particularly in 2014? That weakening of the regulations allowed much more sugar to be added to some of the school meals.

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[Baroness Barran (Con)]

The regulations were updated in 2014—

[Lord Tomlinson (Lab)]

Weakened!

[Baroness Barran (Con)]

—but I do not accept that they were weakened. As I say, there is sensible flexibility to allow schools to respond to their local community.

[Baroness Janke (LD)]

My Lords, the findings of the House of Lords Select Committee report Hungry for Change found that to pay for government healthy eating recommendations, the poorest 10% of UK households would need to spend 74% of their post-housing disposable income on food. The report also found that the cost of healthy eating did not factor in the calculation of benefit rates. Would the Minister urge her colleagues in government to make sure that realistic benefit rates pay for a healthy diet, even for the poorest people?

[Baroness Barran (Con)]

I am more than happy to share those figures on benefit rates with my noble friend sitting next to me on the Front Bench. More seriously, there are so many variables in this. I remind the House of the scale of support that this Government have given every household over 2022-23 and 2023-24: an average of over £3,300 per UK household.

International Higher Education Students

Baroness Barran Excerpts

Tuesday 21st March 2023 Lords Chamber

[Lord Watson of Invergowrie]

To ask His Majesty’s Government what steps they have taken to arrest the decline in the United Kingdom’s global market share in international higher education students, which fell from 11 per cent in 2008 to eight per cent in 2019.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department for Education (Baroness Barran) (Con)]

My Lords, in 2019 we published the International Education Strategy, which commits to hosting at least 600,000 international students per year by 2030. We have met that for two consecutive years, with nearly 680,000 studying here in 2021-22—a 37% increase on 2019 and almost double the number in 2008. While the international student market is becoming more competitive, the absolute number continues to grow, which is testament to the global reputation of our higher education sector.

[Lord Watson of Invergowrie (Lab)]

My Lords, I thank the Minister for that reply. Three years ago, after the Government had removed all post-study work opportunities and rolled out the then Home Secretary’s policies of an unwelcoming environment, the UK slipped from second to third among English-speaking destinations for international students, with Australia overtaking us. The international education strategy to which she has referred was a response to the failure of those policies. While it has indeed reversed the deadline, Universities UK is now saying that new government proposals will restrict its ability to recruit international students. International students make a huge contribution to the economy, and surely the Government need to make more of promoting the UK as a welcoming and accessible destination for study and post study. Is it not the case that the Minister cannot deny that the Government’s policy of restricting student visas will have the opposite effect?

[Baroness Barran (Con)]

I really do not recognise what the noble Lord is saying. In 2019, we had 496,000 international students coming to this country; last year, there were 679,000. We have introduced a graduate route, which allows international students who are graduates to work in this country. We have increased our educational exports from this area from £19 billion to £25.6 billion and are heading to our target of £35 billion.

[Lord Storey (LD)]

My Lords—

[Lord Storey (LD)]

My Lords, does the Minister agree that we should have a diverse international student population in our universities, and is she not concerned that, of the 590,000 non-EU students, those from China, India and Nigeria dominate? Is she concerned about the 120,000 Chinese students and maybe their effect on security?

[Baroness Barran (Con)]

The Government absolutely agree that we need a diverse population of international students. The noble Lord mentions India and Nigeria; those were two of the countries that were specifically targeted in our International Education Strategy, and we are delighted to see how successful it has been.

[Lord Krebs (CB)]

My Lords—

[Lord Krebs (CB)]

My Lords, it is not just international students who are important to our universities but international research funding. In this context, does the Minister agree with the analysis that shows that, in the two oldest universities in this country, Oxford and Cambridge—I declare an interest as a retired Oxford professor—funding from the European Union has fallen from £130 million a year to £1 million a year? What is the Government’s assessment of the impact of this loss of £129 million a year, and what are the Government going to do about it?

[Baroness Barran (Con)]

I cannot argue with the noble Lord’s figures; I do not have them directly in front of me. Obviously, the balance in the relationship between government and universities, as autonomous institutions, is a delicate one, which both sides respect. He will be aware that we are delighted at the EU’s recent openness to working with us on the Horizon programme.

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[Lord Forsyth of Drumlean (Con)]

My Lords, would my noble friend care to reflect on the fact that in Scotland, which has St Andrews as the oldest university, the failure of the Scottish Government to have tuition fees for Scottish students has meant that there are no places for Scottish students, and the universities are having to raise the money by having more international students, at the expense of youngsters in Scotland?

[Baroness Barran (Con)]

I cannot really comment on the experience of youngsters in Scotland. I can say that, from our perspective in England, we believe that the presence of international students is a great source of soft power for the nation—both those in our universities here and the more than 500,000 students who study in British universities overseas.

[Lord Morgan (Lab)]

My Lords—

[Lord Morgan (Lab)]

I am deeply grateful to the House for its delayed courtesy.

It is surely lamentable that the number of university students from, particularly, European universities, has declined in department after department. I know from my experience how enormously enriching the Erasmus scheme, for example, was. It was invented by a fellow Welshman, Hywel Ceri Jones, and we are deeply grateful for it. Furthermore, as has been said, university students from elsewhere contribute enormously to the local economy in a variety of ways. Can we not try to reverse this trend by a very much more European-focused policy in our universities, in the hope of restoring what has been lost, perhaps never to return?

[Baroness Barran (Con)]

I am not sure that I agree entirely with the noble Lord. We are interested in a diversity of students from different parts of the world. I am not clear from the noble Lord’s question what is particular about European students. All our international students bring cultural diversity. We welcome students from Europe as we welcome students from all parts of the world, and all contribute enormously to our economic well-being.

[Lord Trees (CB)]

My Lords, international students certainly enrich our academic community, but there is a danger that they can displace UK students, as the noble Lord, Lord Forsyth, said, because of the much higher fees that can be charged to them. This is a particular issue in veterinary science, in which I declare my interests. The core funding there from government is inadequate to fund the full course. Over 20% of the graduates that we produce in our British veterinary schools now are overseas students who are not destined to work in the UK workforce, at a time when we have a desperate shortage of vets. Can His Majesty’s Government please look at this issue?

[Baroness Barran (Con)]

I am more than happy to take that back to the department.

[Baroness Wilcox of Newport (Lab)]

Does the Minister agree that it is regrettable that universities, and particularly their international students, increasingly are seen by some vocal commentators as a convenient political battlefield rather than existing for the public good? Given reports that the Government are considering reforming migration rules for international students, can the Minister confirm whether a comprehensive impact assessment has been conducted around the proposed changes?

[Baroness Barran (Con)]

Quite obviously, in all areas of policy there are different aspects which we would consider in great detail—the economic impact, our international soft power, which I mentioned, and a number of others.

[Baroness Smith of Newnham (LD)]

My Lords, my noble friend has already mentioned two of the target countries in the Government’s strategy—India and Nigeria. Can the Minister explain why Saudi Arabia is one of the five target countries and whether diversification could not go a little further? I refer to my interests as laid out in the register.

[Baroness Barran (Con)]

The Government are looking at the range of countries that we should prioritise beyond our initial focus. Saudi Arabia is obviously an important strategic partner for us on many levels.

[Lord Cormack (Con)]

My Lords, can we take it, following the Prime Minister’s brilliant negotiations over the Northern Ireland protocol, that we will now be participating fully in the Horizon project?

[Baroness Barran (Con)]

I think I have already addressed Horizon. My noble friend may be aware that the Secretary of State at DSIT met with the EU’s ambassador to the UK, Pedro Serrano, on 14 March and discussed collaboration in this area. We hope very much that this leads to more positive relationships regarding Horizon.

Universities: Impact of Industrial Action on Students

Baroness Barran Excerpts

Thursday 16th March 2023 Lords Chamber

[Lord Storey]

To ask His Majesty’s Government what assessment they have made of the impact on students of industrial action in universities.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department for Education (Baroness Barran) (Con)]

My Lords, while the Government play no role in such disputes, we continue to monitor the impact of strikes with employers and their representatives. This Government set up the Office for Students in 2018, which has wide-ranging powers to ensure that students’ interests are protected and expects providers to do all they can to avoid disruption to students. I urge all sides to work together so that students do not suffer further learning loss.

[Lord Storey (LD)]

I am very grateful for the Minister’s reply. As she is aware, students—and not only students—have had a very difficult time over the past few years, particularly with Covid and the cost of living crisis. The Sutton Trust has found that 49% of university students are doing a second job to be financially supported. With 10 to 15 days of strike action meaning that in some universities students have not been able to have their lectures or tutorials, there is real stress and anxiety for final-year students about whether they will get certificates at the end of their course. I know that universities are autonomous, but could the Office for Students give more direct advice about how we can support students in these difficult times? Given that students have big loans, will they get some of that loan back?

[Baroness Barran (Con)]

On the noble Lord’s question relating to the role of the Office for Students, obviously it is the regulator of higher education in this country; it does not get involved in industrial disputes. It has a part to play in making sure that universities continue to meet their conditions of registration, which allow them to be eligible for public funding, and their obligations under consumer protection law.

[Lord Vaux of Harrowden (CB)]

My Lords, can I push the Minister on the last part of the noble Lord’s question? I should declare an interest: I have two sons who are at university at the moment, both of whom have lost a lot of days due to strike action. Normally when an organisation provides a service for a fee, it has to refund part of that fee if does not provide the service. Why is that not the case with universities?

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[Baroness Barran (Con)]

Universities have obligations under their conditions of registration and under consumer law. Students can make complaints to the Office of the Independent Adjudicator. There were 2,763 new complaints in 2021, and we will shortly get the figures for 2022—that figure covers all issues but may well cover this one also. It is our expectation and hope that universities will respond and support students to receive the education to which they are entitled.

[Lord Morgan (Lab)]

My Lords, I became a university teacher in 1958 and I have never been on strike for a single day in that period, nor would I. However, throughout that long period, university teachers have been underpaid. There are difficulties now about their contracts, which was not the case earlier, in particular the use of younger, untrained teachers in a way that imperils jobs. Could one not give more professional power to university teachers so that they are properly treated?

[Baroness Barran (Con)]

I am sympathetic to the points that the noble Lord makes, but, as the House is aware, universities are autonomous. As autonomous institutions, they are responsible for pay and pension provision for their staff.

[Lord Cormack (Con)]

My Lords, as one who has three granddaughters who have been through university in the past three or four years—the last one is still going through—I know that they are being very short-changed. One granddaughter had not a single lecture last year at a very important and prestigious university; others are given “trigger warnings” before they can read Tennyson or Jane Austen. They really are getting a rough time.

[Baroness Barran (Con)]

I am not sure how to respond to the trigger warnings. I have tried to resist raising this, but, since everyone else has mentioned their family, I have a husband who is doing a part-time degree at the moment. His evening of teaching falls every single time on a strike day, so I am familiar with the issues to which the noble Lords refer. Universities are expected to take steps to avoid or limit disruption to learning. We would encourage all of them to do that.

[Lord Foulkes of Cumnock (Lab Co-op)]

My Lords, in her initial Answer, the Minister said that the Government play no role. Surely the Government set the whole legislative framework in which universities work and all the financial arrangements under which they operate. Is it not about time that the Government accepted their responsibility for all the industrial disputes that are taking place?

[Baroness Barran (Con)]

The Government absolutely accept responsibility for those areas where they are responsible, but I think there would be a lot of resistance in your Lordships’ House if they moved to reduce the autonomy of universities.

[Lord Sandhurst (Con)]

My Lords, I presume that the universities are not paying the lecturers on the days when they are on strike. Could those monies be used by way of restitution to the students? Might the Office for Students recommend that course, so that students could start issuing proceedings in the small claims court on a pro rata basis?

[Baroness Barran (Con)]

I am very happy to take back my noble friend’s recommendation to the Office for Students.

[Baroness O'Grady of Upper Holloway (Lab)]

My Lords, does the Minister agree that, as long as an employer does not face a financial penalty—for example, in reimbursing students, or indeed with the railways, where the Government initially said they had no responsibility for settling the dispute—there is less incentive on the employer to get around the table to negotiate a fair settlement?

[Baroness Barran (Con)]

Obviously, the noble Baroness brings many years of expertise to this matter, but I think that employers in universities and other sectors of the economy are suffering great penalties—financial, reputational and in terms of their relationships with their customers—which have a considerable impact on them.

[Baroness Garden of Frognal (LD)]

My Lords, I entirely accept that the Office for Students has overall responsibility for this issue, but, as we have heard, Ministers have a responsibility too. Is she saying that there is nothing at all that Ministers can do to try to mediate or to help in this dispute?

[Baroness Barran (Con)]

What I am saying is that we established the Office for Students to ensure that students’ interests are respected and upheld. The Government have no direct role in relation to the Universities Superannuation Scheme beyond the legislation that applies to all workplace pension schemes as regulated by the Pensions Regulator.

[Lord Blunkett (Lab)]

My Lords, there is a real complication between the pension scheme operated by universities and the pension scheme operated by the health service. Could the Minister talk to the Chancellor of the Exchequer about the contradiction between giving away £1 billion of public funding for consultants operating under the health service pension scheme and the situation faced by consultants in teaching hospitals, who have opted, or been encouraged, to take on a previous university pension scheme, which is now being completely changed? We might get some sense out of the issue of getting tutors back to work, if we could put a little of that £1 billion into resolving the pension problem for universities.

[Baroness Barran (Con)]

I am more than happy to pass on the noble Lord’s comments to colleagues in the Treasury.

Schools: Data, Digital and Financial Literacy

Baroness Barran Excerpts

Tuesday 14th March 2023 Lords Chamber

[Lord Holmes of Richmond (Con)]

In asking my Question on the Order Paper, I declare my technology interests as set out in the register.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department for Education (Baroness Barran) (Con)]

My Lords, data, digital and financial literacy all feature in compulsory national curriculum subjects. For example, data literacy is covered within mathematics, science, computing and geography, digital literacy within computing and relationships, sex and health education, and financial literacy within citizenship and mathematics. They also feature within the subject content of GCSEs which count within the English baccalaureate. The statutory national curriculum tests and assessments, the Ofsted inspections and the EBacc further encourage schools to teach these subjects.

[Lord Holmes of Richmond (Con)]

My Lords, does my noble friend agree, considering so many of the challenges facing particularly our young people in online and offline situations, that it would be helpful to do more than encourage effective quality data on digital and financial literacy—not just through school but throughout life? That would be beneficial not just to young people but to all people.

[Baroness Barran (Con)]

I absolutely agree with my noble friend that all those are critical skills, and that is why they are woven through the curriculum at all stages, and why we put particular emphasis in the new T-levels on digital skills.

[Lord Clement-Jones (LD)]

My Lords, given the importance of this subject and the risks that children in particular run on a daily basis with the internet, why have the Government not seized a golden opportunity in the Online Safety Bill to set minimum standards for digital and media literacy in schools and give Ofcom greater powers in terms of media literacy strategy?

[Baroness Barran (Con)]

Our Online Safety Bill goes a long way to addressing the concerns that the noble Lord rightly raises, but I should like to reassure him that some of that is also reinforced by the work that we are doing at every key stage in our schools.

[The Lord Bishop of Worcester]

My Lords, recently I had the privilege of serving on your Lordships’ Communications Committee. What came through consistently in our inquiry into the effects of technology on the creative industries was the need for creative and artistic literacy as well as digital literacy—we need STEAM, not just STEM. I speak as a former scientist deeply committed to science and technology. Does the Minister agree and, if so, what can the Government do to enable that, given their reluctance to review the national curriculum and prioritise arts more?

[Baroness Barran (Con)]

The right reverend Prelate raises an important point. Certainly, when I was talking to a number of young people recently, they raised exactly the same issues as he does. I do not think that there is any resistance at all from the Government about the importance of a STEAM curriculum; we talk a lot about STEM, but we also talk a lot about our vibrant and incredibly successful creative industries. Our commitment to the teaching workforce has been that, during this period of recovery post Covid, there will be no changes to the national curriculum.

[The Earl of Clancarty (CB)]

My Lords, seeing that, according to last year’s Ofcom research, 6% of households —1.6 million—have no internet access, have the Government looked closely at the relationship between that and digital literacy in schools? If so, what do they conclude and how many children do they estimate that this affects?

[Baroness Barran (Con)]

If one looks from the other end of the telescope, the noble Earl will be aware that the Government were proactive during Covid in making sure that children who could not access a laptop and the internet were given equipment to be able to do so.

[Baroness Wilcox of Newport (Lab)]

My Lords, my party has long been calling for reform of the citizenship curriculum to include practical life skills such as budgeting and, most importantly, young people staying safe online. Are the Government still committed to keeping the curriculum in England as it is at present, despite large gaps in the current provision for the children and young people of the 21st century?

[Baroness Barran (Con)]

I have the advantage of having the citizenship curriculum in front of me. I should like to reassure the noble Baroness and the House that it absolutely covers the issues that she raises. It looks at saving, spending and use of money through key stages 1 and 2 but, in particular, budgeting and managing risk at key stage 3 and beyond.

[Lord Baker of Dorking (Con)]

My Lords, I strongly support the far-seeing proposal of my noble friend Lord Holmes of Richmond. Every country in Europe is teaching its students up to the age of 16 in digital, computing and technical skills. Some 90% of our students in school today are taught nothing about artificial intelligence, computer-assisted design, cybersecurity, virtual reality or networking online and coding. Is it not time for torpor and indifference to disappear? The Department for Education and its Ministers should now recognise that they should bring in a curriculum based upon our digital age.

[Baroness Barran (Con)]

That is exactly what the department is doing with its T-levels.

[Lord Sikka (Lab)]

My Lords, while reviewing the school curriculum, will the Minister ensure that pupils have access to compulsory courses on ethics and human rights? This would help to ensure that future generations are relieved of the pain caused by directors of profiteering companies and members of the Government who may be inclined to flout international laws and human rights.

[Baroness Barran (Con)]

The noble Lord makes a broader point. Many of those issues are indeed covered in the curriculum. Specifically in relation to financial choices, there is dedicated time to look at social and moral dilemmas, to which the noble Lord refers, within the citizenship curriculum today.

[Baroness Sater (Con)]

My Lords, the APPG on Financial Education for Young People’s recent report alarmingly highlighted that 41% of secondary school teachers in England said they did not think that financial education is required as part of the curriculum, and a further 15% did not know. Does the Minister agree with the APPG’s recommendation that Ofsted undertake a series of deep dives into financial education provision across schools as a matter of urgency?

[Baroness Barran (Con)]

I am very sympathetic to the issues that my noble friend raises, but our approach to these issues has been to weave them through multiple aspects of the curriculum. My noble friend will be aware that, for example in relation to maths and computing, this is something that Ofsted will regularly be doing deep dives into when it is inspecting individual schools.

[Lord Cormack (Con)]

My Lords, while I agree very much with what my noble friends Lord Holmes and Lord Baker said, I ask my noble friend to look very carefully at the history curriculum. It really is shameful that young people do not have history as a compulsory subject after the age of 14. It is also shameful that most of them leave school knowing very little about the history of their own country, of Europe or of any part of the world. They have certain samples, such as the Nazis and the Tudors, but there is no chronology. Can we look at that?

[Baroness Barran (Con)]

I am very happy to take my noble friend’s suggestion back to the department.

[Lord Storey (LD)]

My Lords, independent research by Cambridge University, published by the Money and Pensions Service, suggests that money habits are formed as early as the age of seven. This shows that educating children about money at primary school is very important. Has the Minister heard of GoHenry, a charity set up by parents that gives a prepaid debit card to children, along with an educational app so they can understand financial affairs? If she has not, will she meet them? It might be of interest in developing this curriculum.

[Baroness Barran (Con)]

I have heard of it, but I would also be delighted to meet them. Just to repeat, at the earliest stage, at key stage 1, the compulsory curriculum includes helping children understand how they make choices about how to spend, how to save and how to use money.

[Lord Aberdare (CB)]

My Lords, what steps are the Government taking to improve the balance between technical, academic and creative subjects in schools so that all pupils have the opportunity to pursue and develop knowledge and skills in the areas for which they are best suited, rather than being left behind if they do not achieve five good GCSEs?

[Baroness Barran (Con)]

I thank the noble Lord for the question. He is aware that the Government are very committed to improving the quality of our skills offer, hence the reforms we have made at level 3 qualifications and the introduction of T-levels. It is not just at schools: we are really stressing the opportunities for young people across a range of apprenticeships and other routes into the workplace so that they can realise their potential.

SEND and Alternative Provision

Baroness Barran Excerpts

Thursday 9th March 2023 Lords Chamber

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department for Education (Baroness Barran) (Con)]

I thank both the noble Baroness, Lady Twycross, and the noble Lord, Lord Addington, for welcoming our announcement last week and I will do my best to address some of the points that they raised. I think I heard a shared ambition across the House for children with special educational needs. Last week, we set out our ambition to make sure that all children, but particularly these children, fulfil their potential, to rebuild the parental trust the noble Lord, Lord Addington, referred to, which has been eroded, and to provide financial sustainability.

Much of the questioning focused on timeliness and timing, and I will endeavour to reassure the House about the speed of delivery. But, as we discussed with your Lordships in relation to the children’s social care reforms, the balance between ambition and the quality of implementation is incredibly sensitive and delicate, and extremely important. This is not the first time that a Government have tried to improve support for children with special educational needs and disabilities, particularly those in the care of the local authority. If this were easy, Governments would have cracked it previously. But we are determined to make this work, in terms of both the vision and the quality of implementation.

As your Lordships know, we will establish a single national system that will, importantly, focus on children from minority communities and children in the care of the local authority. We will have the systems of accountability, clarity and transparency for parents, which means that we very much hope and believe that that will work better than the system we have today and will achieve good outcomes for those children.

We are laser focused on the early identification of educational needs and ensuring that high-quality support is in place, without the need for a diagnosis or a label. Crucial within that is the work happening with the workforce, some of which has already started. The first cohort of early years SENCOs have completed their training, and they will re-enter the workforce. The House is aware that we funded training for up to 5,000 SENCOs in early years, which is obviously not the only place we should have them, but it is an absolutely critical place. We have already funded additional educational psychologists and have announced more funding for an additional 400, all of whom are critical to delivering this plan.

Similarly, when we recently reviewed initial teacher training, we made adjustments to the training for early career teachers so that there is a focus in their courses on how you make classroom adjustments and how you can be truly inclusive in your classroom for children with additional needs. Obviously, as we said in the Statement, that work continues at pace this year to try to identify whether other aspects within the mainstream workforce can support this.

Last night, I met the chair of a multi-academy trust, and I said, “I’ve got the Statement tomorrow; tell me what you do to support your children with special educational needs and disabilities in your school”. The answer was having twice as many teaching staff per pupil and incredibly regular communication with home. Not every school or trust will be in a position to do that, but that approach of putting children, resource and communication with parents first struck me as perhaps something that we aspire to in this area. The national standards will also place much greater emphasis on the role that mainstream settings will play, but of course we want to be sure that children and young people with special educational needs who need an education, health and care plan—and their parents—have a less adversarial system.

Therefore, we are adding resources to make sure that we have real clarity of need, in terms of speed. We have been and are adding resource for clarity of support for children and, critically, we are adding capacity in the availability of new schools. The House has regularly talked about the fact that some children are sent very far from home, which is clearly far from ideal. For the record, we have delivered 92 new special schools and 49 are in the pipeline, seven of which will open in September. Last week, we announced a further 33 local authority areas that will get a new special school. Capacity is absolutely going into the sector.

[Baroness Wyld (Con)]

My Lords, I welcome the plan and declare my interests as a non-executive board member at Ofsted and a member of the court of the University of Newcastle upon Tyne. I want to ask about an important part of the plan, which is transition to adult services, employment or higher education, which the Government have set out clearly as an ambition. Can my noble friend say a little about how the Government will assess whether things are getting better and whether the experience of when children are often at their most vulnerable is improving? What will be the measurement for that?

[Baroness Barran (Con)]

My noble friend will have seen from the plan that, particularly in relation to employment, we are investing £18 million to double the capacity of the supported internships programme. We will work with the Department for Work and Pensions on the adjustment passport so that young people do not have to retell their story endlessly and that employers are clear about what support they need. On accountability, together with parents, local authorities and health partners, we will develop local inclusion plans and local inclusion dashboards—I appreciate that that sounds slightly Sir Humphrey-ish, if that is a term. Importantly, parents, providers and local authorities will be able to track and see the impact of their plans, to compare their performance to that of other local authorities, and to understand how they can build, improve and learn. We are committed to improving the quality of data that we use so that everyone in the sector, who are all doing their absolute best to deliver for those young people, can work as effectively as possible.

[Baroness Blower (Lab)]

My Lords, I am sure that no one would want to understate the importance of making sure that we do everything we can for children and young people with special educational needs and disabilities, and their families, but I believe that a lot of teachers have lost trust and confidence in the system, partly because of the £6,000 question but also because it is quite opaque in some cases, so a new approach is helpful.

It is good that the Statement talked about reducing the reliance on education, health and care plans, so that there can be access to what is ordinarily available in mainstream classrooms. Is the Minister aware that there are some difficulties for children in year 6 in accessing a place in a secondary school, because that school is able to say that it cannot meet the needs of that plan? Frankly, it is terrible that children are made to feel as though they are not wanted. I would be pleased if the Minister were able to say something about that.

I do not think that there is complete confidence in the profession about ITT, so I hope that we will continue to look at that. Finally, if we are going to rely continuously on teaching assistants, who do a fantastic job, we need to have regard not just to their training but to their level of remuneration.

[Baroness Barran (Con)]

On the noble Baroness’s first point about teachers having lost confidence in the system, I hope that some of the work that we are doing will help rebuild that. As she knows, the national standards will set much clearer definitions of need in particular, rather than necessarily diagnosis, so that there is clarity and consistency across schools and local authority areas.

We are also producing a number of practice guides for teachers and schools, which we hope will be really helpful. They focus on what are perhaps three of the most prevalent and important areas—autism, speech and language, and mental health and well-being—which, as the noble Baroness knows very well, are all extremely important issues. We are establishing the nine regional expert partnerships to create this co-operation between parents, local authorities, schools and health, ensuring that whatever we are doing is tested in practice to make sure that it works in the interests of both the child and the workforce.

I imagine that the question on the admissions issue is, in part, an extension of the first question on confidence. The other thing we see which is really different in different parts of the country is the degree of co-operation between real specialists. In some places, there are providers of special schools with huge expertise, which are in a position to work very collaboratively with their local mainstream schools, but that is less the case in other places. In the areas of alternative provision, behaviour management and support, and special educational needs and disabilities, that collaboration and co-operation is felt to be a really productive and rich place to start to ensure that every child can get to the school they want to go to.

[The Lord Bishop of St Albans]

My Lords, I too thank His Majesty’s Government for the improvement plan. I commend what they are doing to try to get a much more integrated approach and some of the resources mentioned in the plan. However, I share the concern raised by the noble Baroness, Lady Twycross, about implementation. The stories I pick up from grass-roots situations in Bedfordshire and Hertfordshire, where I serve, show that there are still some very serious problems, and some children are now being failed immediately.

I will ask a couple of questions. First, having a specialised workforce in place will be crucial, so can the Minister tell us what support they expect to receive from the DHSC, especially as such a great strain is placed on the health and social care workforce? The second question is about diagnosis, so that children can have access to the support mentioned in the content of the plan. What support is the DHSC able to provide to CAMHS to ensure that there is support to deliver this plan?

[Baroness Barran (Con)]

As the right reverend Prelate said, that co-operation between health, education and children’s social care is absolutely critical, so that they are closely joined together. We will bring more clarity and clearer accountability through new inspections conducted jointly by Ofsted and the CQC, which will focus very much on outcomes and experiences for children, young people and their families. In turn, that will feed into and reflect the local inclusion plans, where health is a critical partner.

On issues around the mental health workforce, the right reverend Prelate will be aware that we are doing a lot of work to ensure that we have direct support in schools, so that, wherever possible, mental health issues do not need to escalate to CAMHS.

[Baroness Brinton (LD)]

My Lords, I declare my interests as a vice-president of the Local Government Association and as one of the infantry working on the Children and Families Bill, as were other Members of your Lordships’ House. We felt that that was a ground-breaking change to the system, but one of the fundamental reasons it has failed is because the funding, both for children and for the assessment of children and young people, was not ring-fenced, causing real problems for both local authorities and schools. So will the Minister ensure that there will be ring-fencing for this funding, because it is not fair for local authorities to have to find it from other resources, when other resources are clearly being so pressured?

I also want to follow on from the question asked by the right reverend Prelate the Bishop of St Albans and focus on those children who will need an EHCP, especially the health element. For those with high needs in terms of physical disabilities, the proposal is to move much more to special schools, but for some young people special schools do not actually help their academic achievements because the standards are set so low—so will that be addressed in this or in relationships with schools?

Finally, those who were there for debates on the Children and Families Bill will know that there was ground-breaking statutory guidance for support for children in school with medical conditions. That has now been watered down. Will it be strengthened to ensure that every child with a serious medical condition gets the support that they need to go on school trips and take part in everyday activities?

[Baroness Barran (Con)]

In relation to funding, I do not fully recognise the picture that the noble Baroness paints. Revenue funding in this area is up 50% since 2019, and we have committed £2.6 billion in high-needs capital funding to build, as I have already mentioned, 92 new special schools that are being delivered, with 49 in the pipeline and 33 on their way.

For children with physical disabilities at a high level, the aspiration is absolutely clear—we need to get the right place for every child, including those children. Therefore, if it is possible, we will include those children in the mainstream, as that clearly is the aspiration and direction of our work. I shall need to revert to the noble Baroness, as she has raised this issue with me before and my memory fails me on the current status of her final point.

[Lord Young of Cookham (Con)]

My Lords, like others I welcome the provisions in the Statement, which will provide a better deal for parents and children with special needs, and I welcome the interaction between Ministers and noble Lords during the consultation. On workforce training, does my noble friend accept that the new NPQ will need significant adjustment, if it is going to meet the needs of the SENCOs envisaged in the Statement? The current NASENCO course that it replaces is for 600 hours. Does my noble friend agree that the strength of those courses needs to be carried through into the proposed NPQ?

I welcome the national standard as it will remove the postcode lottery. Can my noble friend assure me that the Treasury will have nothing to do with those national standards as a means of controlling costs, that costs will be based on the needs of children and that there will be the resources behind them to provide the finances for the EHCPs?

[Baroness Barran (Con)]

In relation to my noble friend’s first question, of course the new NPQ will definitely learn from the NASENCO qualification, but its focus, to put it in simple terms, will be very practical and on the classroom. It tries to address the practical requirements of teachers in the classroom, and it will have less of the academic and research focus that has traditionally been associated with the NASENCO.

In relation to not letting the Treasury anywhere near that, clearly, I would have to reserve judgment—but I hear the spirit of my noble friend’s question. The important thing is that the standards are being developed in collaboration with families, local authorities, health providers and schools. There are tensions pulling in different directions, but there is a shared aspiration for the earliest possible intervention, and the earlier that we can intervene the less likely it is that many children will need to go into specialist provision and need to have an EHCP. Therefore, absolutely front and centre, the most important thing is that that is the right outcome for that child, but the secondary helpful benefit is that it then frees up funding, as my noble friend suggests, for those children who need an EHCP.

[Lord Watson of Invergowrie (Lab)]

My Lords, there are many welcome aspects of the Statement, but it seems the Government still have not grasped the urgency of the situation surrounding children with special educational needs and disabilities. A SEND pupil in year 7 when the review was launched in 2019 will have left school by the time the reforms are implemented—if indeed they are fully implemented—by 2026. That means, as the right reverend Prelate said, that a child being failed now will continue to be failed, which is just unacceptable.

I have two questions for the Minister on alternative provision, and they go to moral leadership from the Government and from senior practitioners. Will the reforms force mainstream schools to accept vulnerable pupils presented to them? Will those reforms force mainstream schools to pass on funding for children that they exclude to alternative provision? Because, at the moment, neither of those are guaranteed.

[Baroness Barran (Con)]

I really do not accept the premise of the noble Lord’s first statement. I am sure he would not want us to implement everything tomorrow and then find that it is not having the impact we want. We live in a world where we have to make sure that this works in practice; hence the nine regional expert partnerships where we will be testing everything. As I already mentioned, we have already made reforms in terms of teacher training; we have already increased our expenditure by 50% since 2019; we have already massively increased the capital budget and delivered more places; we have already started to increase the number of educational psychologists; and we are already delivering qualified SENCOs for early years pupils. So, there is a great deal happening that will help that year 7 child before they leave school, and I hope the noble Lord accepts that.

As for forcing children into mainstream, and forcing the funding to follow them, I just think it is not the approach that we are taking. It is not that we do not take this seriously or that we do not have grave concerns about children who are excluded from school and never return: those are key metrics that we will be tracking, but we need to work with people and make sure that we deliver for those children. As always, we will be looking at the areas that are doing this brilliantly today, learning from them and working with areas that have perhaps not yet reached that level of practice and supporting them to deliver for those children. I share the noble Lord’s concerns about those very children.

[Baroness Garden of Frognal (LD)]

My Lords, a lot of the Statement is welcome, but it does seem to be jam tomorrow. I have two questions. The first is that children with special educational needs learn differently: what efforts are being made to ensure that their teachers understand that while they do not have to work harder, they do have to work more smartly to understand the different ways in which SEND pupils learn? Secondly, Scope has found that SEND pupils are twice as likely to be unemployed as non-disabled people, so what are the Government doing to give young people with SEND the skills and opportunities to enable them to be employed?

[Baroness Barran (Con)]

The Government absolutely recognise the point the noble Baroness raises. We are already providing professional development focused on special educational needs and disabilities; we have online training; we run live webinars; we offer peer mentoring for school and college staff through our universal services programme; and we aim to reach at least 70% of schools and FE colleges each year until 2025, while also expanding the assistive technology pilot, which is expanding training to increase staff confidence in using assistive technology. In my response to the noble Baroness, Lady Wyld, I touched on some of the measures that we are taking to support people with disabilities and additional needs into the workforce.

[Lord Bellingham (Con)]

My Lords, I too warmly welcome the White Paper today, particularly the new national standards plans. The Minister is aware that very often EHCPs and indeed tribunals get badly delayed because of a shortage of available educational psychologists. I looked at page 52 of the White Paper, and the new money for training educational psychologists is very welcome, but can she give some indication to the House as to the actual numbers of new educational psychologists we will see?

[Baroness Barran (Con)]

I thank my noble friend. We are anticipating an additional 400 educational psychologists from the funding that we have just announced.

[Baroness Bennett of Manor Castle (GP)]

My Lords, I am going to do something unusual: agree with the point in the Statement about providers doing a brilliant job. I say that in reference to a visit I made, with the Learn with the Lords scheme, to the North West Kent Alternative Provision Service in Gravesend, which is an absolutely amazing institution; I would commend to all noble Lords the opportunity to visit an institution like that. It was the first time that Learn with the Lords has ever visited an alternative provision site and it is well worth praising.

I declare my position as a vice-president of the Local Government Association. I have two quick questions. First, there is concern that the £70 million of funding for implementation will be inadequate; will this be subject to regular review with the potential for further inputs, if it proves insufficient?

Secondly, I reflect on a meeting I had this week with the disabled Green groups. Pupils often need transport to access special schools and alternative provision; I know there is a real issue about the quality and safety of provision in Leicester at the moment, and I think that may be a broader problem around the country. What are the Government doing to ensure that there is enough transport so that pupils can get safely and appropriately to this provision?

[Baroness Barran (Con)]

With regard to the noble Baroness’s first question, we have obviously done some pretty careful costings to reach our figure of £70 million but, equally, there is a massive commitment from the Government to deliver on this. The noble Baroness asked if we would keep this under review; clearly, we will do so.

In relation to her question regarding transport, that is very much part of thinking about a local inclusion plan and making sure that it really thinks through the experience of the child or young person and their families, and what is practical, realistic and safe for them to access the education that they need.

Education (School Teachers’ Qualifications and Induction Arrangements) (Amendment) (England) Regulations 2022

Baroness Barran Excerpts

Wednesday 8th March 2023 Lords Chamber

[Lord Storey (LD)]

My Lords, the regulations must be seen against a backcloth of startling falls in the number of domestic teacher training recruits. In the last five years, 102,588 teachers have given up teaching before reaching their 40th birthday. One in eight maths teachers is not a trained mathematician. Some 400 schools will not have a trained A-level physics teacher.

We remember the Government’s initial teacher training accreditation programme, which saw 68 trainers lose their expertise and capacity to train. In some areas, it led to a reduction in the number of trainees who were going to gain an ITT place at a time when subjects were already struggling to recruit suitably qualified teachers. The effects will be felt in particular in the east and north-west of England.

With regard to overseas students, the current legislation allows teachers who qualified in some countries to be treated as qualified in England, while others are not, even if they have the equivalent skills and experiences. Under the new policy, a new professional recognition system will be introduced that will set consistent standards, so that the qualifications and experience of suitable, qualified teachers from all countries can be fairly assessed for overseas teaching status, the intention being to create a consistent and fair approach for applicants from any country. We support that—of course we do.

The Government argue that the changes will increase the number of overseas teachers obtaining teacher status. The Lords Secondary Legislation Scrutiny Committee has challenged that conclusion, stating:

“The data suggests that the policy will only increase the number of overseas teachers if compared to 2021-22, when overseas QTS approvals were unusually low—compared to other recent years, overseas recruitment is expected to fall”.


It said that inadequate information was provided and that the department omitted

“key information on the policy, how it was formulated and its implications for the teaching workforce … We asked for further details in several areas and the Department for Education (DfE) agreed to revise”

and delay the policy. The committee stated:

“In response to further questioning, and despite initially saying it could not provide the information, DfE has now published its projections about the effect of the policy on the number of overseas teachers being awarded QTS”.


The data suggests that the new policy will increase the number of overseas students only marginally.

I have some questions for the Minister. Why did the Department for Education significantly hinder our ability to scrutinise this amendment through its reluctance to provide information when requested? Why was the department reluctant to provide the information on which it relied to formulate the policy? When published, the data did not entirely support the department’s assertions. Surely it is a fundamental principle of transparency and accountability that any information relied on to formulate policy should be published alongside the instrument or, as a minimum, be made available to Parliament on request.

The Secondary Legislation Scrutiny Committee fairly said:

“We applaud the overall intention to provide a fair and consistent application process for overseas teachers from all countries … We have, however, noted that domestic recruits to teacher training are falling sharply and DfE’s own projections suggest that overseas QTS recruits will be well below the levels of recent years … we are concerned about whether there is a holistic and coherent strategy to maintain the teaching workforce in England”.


I regret that class sizes are going up. I regret that teacher shortages are going up. I regret that we are having real problems with the retention of teachers. Mention has been made of the industrial action planned for next week and the difficulties in recruiting teachers because of salaries. Does the Minister agree that the best way to resolve this issue is to refer it to ACAS?

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department for Education (Baroness Barran) (Con)]

My Lords, I thank the noble Baroness, Lady Twycross, for bringing forward a debate on this important issue; what a pleasure it is to stand across the Dispatch Box from her. I look forward to many more debates with her in future. I also thank the Secondary Legislation Scrutiny Committee for its role in considering these regulations, which are a part of my department’s efforts to ensure that there is an excellent teacher for every child.

Both the noble Baroness and the noble Lord, Lord Storey, referred to the criticism from the Secondary Legislation Scrutiny Committee about the quality of, in particular, the initial Explanatory Memorandum prepared by the department. I absolutely acknowledge that the original version of the Explanatory Memorandum did not meet the committee’s needs. My officials responded promptly and in full to the committee’s queries and re-laid the Explanatory Memorandum when those issues were raised. We committed to publish our projections in response to the committee’s original request and were in the process of doing so when the committee wrote to my right honourable friend Nick Gibb, the Minister for School Standards, to request them—so I do not accept the assertion made by the noble Lord, Lord Storey, that the department hindered this. There was absolutely no intent to hinder.

[Lord Storey (LD)]

It is not my assertion; it is the assertion of the Secondary Legislation Scrutiny Committee.

[Baroness Barran (Con)]

Well, I would just like to put on record that, although the department absolutely regrets the quality of the initial Explanatory Memorandum, there was no intent to hinder.

I turn to the wider issues and the content of the statutory instrument. As your Lordships know, qualified teacher status is seen as a gold standard globally. When fully rolled out, these regulations will introduce a level playing field in the recognition of overseas professional teaching qualifications. They will replace a system where some teachers can have their qualifications recognised with ease while others who may be equally qualified cannot. We initially projected that up to 1,200 more overseas teachers could be awarded qualified teacher status through these changes, but it is already clear that this is likely to be a conservative estimate; I will talk more about that in a moment.

The noble Baroness, Lady Twycross, said that she regretted the impact that this could have on the teaching profession overseas. We are taking a more cautious approach to the rollout of our policy and will initially allow applications only from teachers who are qualified in mathematics, the sciences and languages in certain countries. Of course, we will monitor very closely the actual level of migration to teaching posts in England by teachers from newly eligible countries. We are in close contact with the regulators in those countries to monitor and discuss the impact of this.

Since we launched the Apply for QTS service on 1 February, we have seen a very high number of applications from many teachers able to apply for the first time. This has been driven by news coverage of the scheme overseas, some of which has been inaccurate and led to some misunderstanding of the scheme as offering candidates a job directly. Our initial review suggests that there will be a large number of candidates who do not meet the eligibility criteria, which rightly prioritises quality and subject need. But the significant level of interest from those who will meet the eligibility criteria is positive and shows that international recruitment can help boost teacher recruitment in shortage subjects. We will be able to provide a fuller picture of award numbers in the coming months, once applicants have gone through our assessment process. That will mean that the information we provide gives a true picture of the numbers of teachers who may apply for jobs in our schools.

Further, to attract the very best teachers from around the world we have also introduced an international relocation payment worth £10,000 to help overseas teachers and trainees in physics and languages to relocate to England, for the reasons that both noble Lords set out, and we have made bursaries worth up to £27,000 and scholarships worth up to £29,000 available to non-UK trainees in the same subjects.

The noble Baroness questioned whether we had a coherent and holistic plan for the teaching workforce in England, and I say that international candidates are just one element of our plan. In 2019, we launched the first ever integrated strategy both to recruit and retain more teachers; that has been developed alongside, and welcomed by, teachers, education unions and professional bodies. We have made good progress on this: we opened the National Institute of Teaching, published the department’s first ever Education Staff Wellbeing Charter, refreshed the content of teacher training, and introduced the early-career framework, with all the support that that offers to early-career teachers.

--- Later in debate ---

[Baroness Barran (Con)]

I do not think that it is for me to comment on the progress of the negotiations. The Secretary of State has been absolutely clear in the offer she made to the NEU to enter into intensive talks, and, as a department, we are very disappointed that it has not accepted that offer.

[Baroness Twycross (Lab)]

My Lords, I thank the Minister for her response and her kind words; I also look forward to many debates with her in future. It is positive that the SI will create a level playing field for qualified teacher status, and I am pleased that the DfE will monitor the impact. I hope that the data and analysis will be made available to the House, along with an evaluation of the success of the incentive scheme.

I note and agree with the comments of the noble Lord, Lord Storey, about the lamentable number of teachers having to teach subjects they are not trained to teach, including the vital subjects of maths and physics. I share all the regrets he listed.

Despite the intention of the SI, I regret that I cannot agree that it will achieve exactly what the Minister describes. It is not sufficient simply that the number of teachers is high; there needs to be an adequate and sufficient number of qualified teachers to deliver a first-class education for our children. Unfortunately, I do not share her confidence that the SI will go far enough in resolving the issues identified. It is regrettable that we are in this position; however, on the basis that there is even the slightest possibility that this might improve the number of qualified teachers available to our young people, I beg leave to withdraw the Motion.

Food Price Rises: Public Sector Food Provision

Baroness Barran Excerpts

Monday 27th February 2023 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Walmsley]

To ask His Majesty’s Government what assessment they have made of the impact of food price rises on the provision of food by public sector organisations, in particular the nutrient levels of school lunches.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department for Education (Baroness Barran) (Con)]

My Lords, we recognise cost pressures that schools and suppliers are facing. Officials are holding regular meetings with food industry representatives, covering issues including public sector food supplies. Schools manage their own contracts, using government funding to procure services from private sector caterers or local authorities, or to fund their in-house catering. The school food standards set out in regulations what schools should and should not serve to children during the school day.

[Baroness Walmsley (LD)]

My Lords, in December, food price inflation was 16.9%. It is a fact that this has caused a reduction in the portion size and nutritional value of school meals. This affects poorer children the most and contributes to health inequalities. Because of the price of energy, some schools are providing only cold meals. Does the Minister accept that the Government’s policies on school food standards, using British food and supporting SMEs, will not be achieved unless there is realistic and regular renegotiation of these contracts? Will the Minister please look into this?

[Baroness Barran (Con)]

As always, I will be interested if the noble Baroness has specific examples to share with the department, as that is not the picture we are getting. The picture that we are getting is that there are, of course, pressures on food inflation, but clear standards on nutritional value continue to be met. There is a real focus on reducing waste and, in some cases, that means reducing the number of options available to pupils, but not the quality.

[Baroness Boycott (CB)]

My Lords, based on research we have done at Feeding Britain, I can say that around £88 million every year does not get through to the school food budget. One reason is that poorer pupils are unable to roll over their daily allowance. It has also been true that councils, to a lesser extent, and schools themselves—because food is something that you can reduce while still delivering a meal—have been using some of that money because they are so cash-strapped. No blame is afforded here, because budgets everywhere are very tight, but would the Minister agree that this is an extremely false economy? Will she agree to talk to me and Feeding Britain about whether we can review it and ring-fence the money? As the noble Baroness, Lady Walmsley, pointed out, the amount is not enough at the moment to make sure that these meals are healthy and nutritious. For many kids, it is all that they are getting.

[Baroness Barran (Con)]

I absolutely agree with the noble Baroness that schools need to use the funding provided for them to feed the children eligible for free school meals. We are monitoring the implementation of our policies, and we are investing in a pilot training scheme for school governors so that they are well equipped to understand what is happening in their schools.

[Baroness McIntosh of Pickering (Con)]

My Lords—

--- Later in debate ---

[Baroness Barran (Con)]

The Government absolutely support the spirit of my noble friend’s remarks in terms of supporting the local economy and making sure that children and others—in hospitals and elsewhere—who receive government-funded meals get the highest quality. It is important, however, that they have the flexibility and discretion to decide for themselves how they source the food.

[Baroness Lister of Burtersett (Lab)]

My Lords, a recent open letter to the Prime Minister from the heads of leading public health organisations, supported by a number of noble Lords, including myself, called for the extension of free school meals and the national school breakfast programme on the grounds that access to nutritious food at school improves children’s health, development and ability to learn. At a time when low-income parents are struggling more than ever, will the Government use the forthcoming Budget to ensure that children have access to nutritious food from school dinners and breakfasts?

[Baroness Barran (Con)]

This Government have made huge strides in extending access to free school meals, with the introduction of universal infant free school meals and the introduction of free school meals in further education. More than a third of pupils are now eligible for free school meals. We keep the situation under constant review.

[The Lord Bishop of St Albans]

My Lords, security is one of the most fundamental responsibilities of any Government, yet with huge hikes in the cost of food from overseas, our domestic market is declining. Take, for example, the outstanding market garden sector in the Lea Valley in my diocese. About 10% of them had to close in the last year because of the cost of heating. What are the Government going to do to ensure that those market gardens are able to sustain themselves, to guarantee our basic food security in this country?

[Baroness Barran (Con)]

I cannot comment on the specific market gardens to which the right reverend Prelate refers, but I absolutely get the spirit of his question. He will be aware that Defra works very closely with the food industry in this country to monitor where risks are in relation to supply and to make sure that any disruption can be addressed.

[Lord Weir of Ballyholme (DUP)]

My Lords, we would all acknowledge that a lot of good work operates through schools in providing nutritious meals, but we should be aware that schools are not in session for about a quarter of the year. What action are the Government taking to try to tackle the problem of holiday hunger for vulnerable children?

[Baroness Barran (Con)]

The Government have committed £200 million to the holiday activities and food fund. It reached about 600,000 children in the summer of 2021, which is the last year for which we have data. I visited a primary school in Ipswich on Friday that was using that funding very creatively through the holidays, working with families to make sure that it reached the children who needed it most.

[Baroness Twycross (Lab)]

My Lords, a study published by Imperial College last year highlighted that, across primary and secondary schools, 64% of calories consumed by pupils at lunchtime were from ultra-processed food. Given the long-term health implications that this presents and the important role played by good nutrition in pupil attainment, does the Minister intend to take on board the report’s recommendation to cap the levels of ultra-processed food in school meals?

[Baroness Barran (Con)]

Our guidelines are clear in respect of the quality of food that children should receive in their lunchtime meals. They are clear about the range of fruit, vegetables, carbohydrates and protein that they should get.

[Lord Swire (Con)]

My noble friend the Minister is right to point out the huge inflationary pressures on school budgets and other budgets in the public sector. At the same time, can she reassure us that everything is being done to prioritise the purchase by the public sector of British-sourced products to support our own hard-pressed farming community?

[Baroness Barran (Con)]

I think that I in part addressed that point in response to my noble friend earlier. We absolutely are supporting our domestic farmers and food production industry, but equally it is important that we give flexibility to schools to respond to opportunities in their local markets. They understand their needs and can deliver for the children in their care.

[Lord Storey (LD)]

My Lords, the Minister will agree that we want all children to have a nutritional hot dinner, particularly at lunchtime. She will also be aware that, when the coalition Government introduced free meals at key stage 1, there was a massive take-up of young people having a hot school dinner. Now we see a large and increasing number of families coming to school with a packed lunch, which in many cases is not nutritional and certainly is not warm. What steps are the Government taking to ensure that packed lunches are of nutritional value to the children who bring them into school?

[Baroness Barran (Con)]

There is obviously a limit to the extent to which the Government should direct individual parents on the food they provide for their children. We are ambitious for our children’s understanding of the importance of nutrition and for their own opportunities to cook at school and become more confident in how to cook nutritious and affordable food. Again, I am aware of a number of examples of schools working closely with parents to equip them with those skills not just for lunchtime but for the evening.

School Buildings: Risk of Collapsing

Baroness Barran Excerpts

Tuesday 7th February 2023 Lords Chamber

[Lord Watson of Invergowrie]

To ask His Majesty’s Government what steps they intend to take in response to the risk status of school buildings collapsing being raised to “critical – very likely” in the Department for Education’s Consolidated annual report and accounts, published on 19 December 2022 (HC 918).

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department for Education (Baroness Barran) (Con)]

My Lords, safe, well-maintained school buildings are a priority for the Government. We have allocated over £13 billion since 2015, including £1.8 billion this year, to keep schools safe and operational based on their condition need. Our new school rebuilding programme will transform buildings at 500 schools, prioritising core condition and evidence of potential safety issues. Where the department is alerted to significant safety issues with a building that cannot be managed locally, we provide additional support.

[Lord Watson of Invergowrie (Lab)]

My Lords, I thank the Minister for that reply but with respect, parents are not interested in what has been spent since 2015, because the DfE’s annual report shows that it is quite inadequate to make the school estate safe. Between 2010 and 2022, political decisions have meant that there has been a 25% decrease in cash terms in schools’ capital spend. In the next few years, the Government may not be in a position to put their plans into place.

Parents need answers now on the safety of the schools their children are going to daily. It is shocking that the Government feel able to withhold information from them, as they did 10 days ago when they reneged on the promised publication of data showing the schools most in danger of collapse. What do the Government have to hide?

[Baroness Barran (Con)]

The Government do not have anything to hide: they have been proactive in reaching out to schools and engaging with them to understand the condition need of the school estate and the structural issues they face. The noble Lord refers to the publication of the condition data collection reports. I remind him that all the data from those surveys has been shared directly with the schools and responsible bodies concerned, so they have been able to act on the information from those reports.

[Baroness Berridge (Con)]

My Lords, no noble Lords will want to see any of the risks outlined by the department materialise, but we have to prepare for them. Can my noble friend outline whether there have been meetings at the department, walking through what would happen if we had an issue with building material? In particular, have disaster response experts and insurers such as Zurich been included in those meetings? Also, have they taken legal advice on what happens to the personal liability of trustees under health and safety legislation if we should have a building material collapse in one of our schools?

[Baroness Barran (Con)]

My noble friend asked about some very detailed aspects in that question, and I am happy to respond to her in writing. The department has regular exercises through which we test out a number of different scenarios, including the one my noble friend outlines.

[Lord Storey (LD)]

My Lords, many children are taught in temporary accommodation—portakabins, or, as they are known in the trade, demountables, many of which are in the most appalling condition. In reply to a question from my right honourable friend Ed Davey, the Secretary of State could not say how many demountables or portakabins there were, or where they were placed. We need to know where this unsuitable temporary accommodation is, and a programme for replacing it. Will the Minister look into this?

[Baroness Barran (Con)]

I am more than happy to write to the noble Lord with the details of where those portakabins are. We do have a programme for replacing them and, more broadly, schools that are in poor condition. That programme has been accelerated very significantly: 100 new schools were approved for rebuilding in 2021, and 300 in 2022.

[Baroness Bray of Coln (Con)]

My Lords, will my noble friend explain to the House what her department is doing to understand the condition and safety risks in our school buildings and how the department plans to address these?

--- Later in debate ---

[Baroness Barran (Con)]

I thank my noble friend for her question; I hope I heard it okay. The department works very closely with responsible bodies—academy trusts and local authorities—in managing the school estate. We undertook the first comprehensive survey—the condition data collection survey, known as CDC1—which gave us a picture of the state of every building. I reassure the House that 94% of buildings were found to be in a good condition. We are currently running the follow-up survey, which will allow us to compare the two results and target our condition funding further. We work very closely with schools on advice. The department has now launched a scheme of capital advisers, who go out to schools and support them, and we will be scaling that up in the current year.

[Lord Watts (Lab)]

My Lords, the Minister seems to believe that more research needs to be done in this area, but we have heard that there are schools falling apart in the UK now. Will the Government accept personal responsibility for any schools that cause problems and endanger children and staff?

[Baroness Barran (Con)]

I am not sure but I think the noble Lord used the word “complacency”. We are far from complacent. There are elements of the school estate that require further exploration. For example, the CDC survey was not a structural one, so where it identifies issues the responsible body, where appropriate, is beholden to carry out a structural survey. The department is absolutely being proactive and supportive. I meet with trusts and local authorities very regularly regarding these issues. The tone of those meetings is always one of collaboration and working together to address the issues they identify.

[The Lord Bishop of Southwell and Nottingham]

My Lords, the latest guidance from the DfE on reinforced autoclaved aerated concrete requires regular visual surveys of school buildings. In my diocese in Nottinghamshire there are many smaller, mainly rural schools that are unable to employ site managers who can undertake these surveys. They have to rely on head teachers and staff to make the necessary ongoing visual inspections. Can the Minister say what assistance can be provided to the teaching and leadership teams, particularly in smaller schools, where the budget is already under considerable pressure?

[Baroness Barran (Con)]

The right reverend Prelate raises a very important issue, on which we wrote proactively to all schools last year. I followed that up in the autumn with a letter asking them to tell us whether they believed they had RAAC in their school buildings. That questionnaire closes at the end of this month, and I would be very grateful if any noble Lords who have influence over these thingsencouraged the responsible bodies. Over two-thirds have responded, and it is really important we get that last third. When we get that information, we will send out technical advisers to support the schools. I invite the right reverend Prelate to write to me directly; we are really keen to work with the schools in his diocese.

[Baroness Chapman of Darlington (Lab)]

My Lords, awareness of the aerated concrete issue is growing, and with it so is anxiety among parents. It is good to hear that the Minister understands why, but in December the Department for Education raised the risk of school buildings in England collapsing to “critical—very likely”. A big part of this is school roofs made of aerated concrete, which is weaker than traditional concrete. That is why the Government intend to remove it from all hospitals, but if it is the right thing to do for hospitals, why is it not the right thing to do soon, quickly or now for schools?

[Baroness Barran (Con)]

In some cases it will be the right thing to do, but there are definitely examples of RAAC that has been properly maintained and does not pose a risk. We are endeavouring to identify as quickly as possible those schools that believe they have RAAC. Based on our experience to date, a number of schools believe they have it but then it turns out that they do not. We need to find out exactly where it is and whether it has been properly maintained, and then take action. I absolutely assure the House that where we identify any building material that poses a risk to children and staff, we act immediately.

Children: Bereavement Support in Schools

Baroness Barran Excerpts

Monday 6th February 2023 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Warwick of Undercliffe]

To ask His Majesty’s Government what assessment they have made of the adequacy of support for bereaved children in schools.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department for Education (Baroness Barran) (Con)]

My Lords, losing a loved one is a devastating loss for any child. Schools can play an essential role in supporting a pupil through grief and preventing longer-term emotional distress by providing effective pastoral support and ensuring there is a supportive school culture. It is for individual schools to decide what pastoral support each pupil needs. We have invested £10 million in senior mental health leads training to help schools put informed support in place, drawing on specialists and working with families as needed.

[Baroness Warwick of Undercliffe (Lab)]

I thank the Minister for that helpful and sympathetic reply. There is clearly a lot of good practice. But recent research has found that bereavement support in primary schools is varied and inconsistent. My own family experience reinforces that. There are long waiting times for counselling, and how schools deal with anticipatory grief is particularly neglected. One in every 29 children will be bereaved of a parent: that is one in every classroom. The research shows that teachers and schools are crying out for guidance and training. Is it not time for DfE to have national bereavement policy, including a mandatory requirement for each school to have such a policy? Will the Minister agree to meet the Ruth Strauss Foundation and other charities who are doing such formative work on this issue?

[Baroness Barran (Con)]

The noble Baroness will be aware that there is a cross-government bereavement working group. This issue, as the noble Baroness understands well, cuts across both education and health, as well as other government departments—hence our cross-government group. I would be delighted to meet with the Ruth Strauss Foundation and hear about its work. This is something we take extremely seriously, hence our focus on ensuring that schools provide a truly compassionate culture for whatever is going on for the children within them.

[Lord Storey (LD)]

One hundred children every day are bereaved of a parent. From my own experience, I remember my two nephews losing their dad when they were seven and nine. There was little to no support from their primary school, and that is quite endemic to the problem we now face. Would the Minister agree that we need, as we have heard, every school to have a policy on bereavement, staff to have training on bereavement and, thirdly, a commitment to every school having full-time or part-time professional mental health support in the school?

[Baroness Barran (Con)]

I am sorry to hear of the noble Lord’s nephews’ personal experience of this. Of course, many of us in this House have been touched in different ways by the issues raised by the noble Baroness’s Question. The Government are doing many of the things the noble Lord points to. I mentioned training; every state school is being offered a grant, as are colleges, to train a senior mental health lead so that we have an effective response to these issues. Of course, education staff are not mental health staff in general, and nor are they bereavement or trauma specialists, but they are very well placed to observe the behaviour of children day to day and respond to that.

[Lord Lexden (Con)]

Are the improvements to training to which my noble friend referred being overseen by officials at the highest level, with just the right kind of approach to these deeply sensitive and important matters?

[Baroness Barran (Con)]

I am happy to share with my noble friend in a letter more detail of the training, but it is something the department takes extremely seriously.

[Baroness Blower (Lab)]

My Lords, when I was still teaching, I was privileged to be able to attend bereavement training in order to be able to deal with that in primary schools—although I was part of a peripatetic team rather than attached to an individual school. Can the Minister say whether she believes that, actually, there is a need for peripatetic teams? Not all teachers will be able to be trained to the same level and, increasingly, they are trained in schools where the training might be of a variable standard.

[Baroness Barran (Con)]

I do not think we would want to be prescriptive about peripatetic teams. The point the noble Baroness makes is that schools need to be aware of what resources are available in their communities to support a range of issues, including bereavement. Your Lordships have focused a lot, rightly, on primary school, but I should add that the department is extending the early years professional development programme, with the aim of reaching up to 10,000 early years practitioners. That includes a module developed in partnership with the Anna Freud Centre, which allows them to identify acute stress and trauma in the children in their care.

[Lord McLoughlin (Con)]

My Lords, would my noble friend agree that every case will be different as to how this comes about? While certain guidelines from the centre would be useful, it is absolutely essential that there is no straitjacket for how schools feel they should act on this particular subject, and that there is discretion allowed, so that head teachers and teachers can best judge how to approach each individual case, which will not be identical.

[Baroness Barran (Con)]

My noble friend is spot on and has probably put the Government’s position rather more eloquently than I have. It is critical that the school creates a culture where children feel able to talk about what has happened to them and what their feelings are, and that it can use its discretion and judgment in responding to that and accessing specialist resources. The Government are supporting this through our work, and signposting to the Childhood Bereavement Network, Hope Again and a wide range of other resources.

[The Lord Bishop of Southwell and Nottingham]

My Lords, the Church of England educates over 1 million children in its schools and has produced highly accessible guidance and training for its school leaders on supporting students and families through grief, bereavement and loss. Recognising in particular the barriers to learning and flourishing that trauma may cause, would the Minister meet with the Church of England’s education team to see whether these outstanding resources could in fact help other students, teachers and families across the country?

[Baroness Barran (Con)]

I thank the right reverend Prelate for the invitation; I would be delighted to meet with them.

[Baroness Wilcox of Newport (Lab)]

My Lords, as the Minister will know, the Government’s £8 million Wellbeing for Education Return training programme was launched in 2020, with the aim of helping children to process the impacts of the pandemic. What is the Government’s assessment of equality of access to this programme between deprived and affluent areas across the United Kingdom?

[Baroness Barran (Con)]

I do not have the breakdown that the noble Baroness refers to. She referred to the 2020 return programme, which was followed by the recovery programme in 2021. Looking at those two years, I am aware that 14,000 schools and colleges, out of roughly 22,000 nationally, got those resources.

[Lord Laming (CB)]

My Lords, the Minister well understands that teachers are faced with a range of very human situations. Could she use her good offices to ensure that Ofsted inspections place an emphasis not just on learning but on the pastoral responsibilities that schools have, particularly in these very emotionally disturbing situations?

[Baroness Barran (Con)]

I hear what the noble Lord says. I am slightly surprised, because I think there has been a real focus by Ofsted on safeguarding in its broadest sense and the important pastoral role that schools provide—but I will, of course, take what he says back.

[Baroness McIntosh of Hudnall (Lab)]

My Lords, the noble Baroness’s answers, and indeed the questions, have focused, understandably, on the impact on individual bereaved children. What is the Government’s view of the impact on the classes of which those children are part? Very often, the distress exhibited by one child can be transmitted to others, who often do not fully understand what they are witnessing and sometimes have great difficulty in managing it.

[Baroness Barran (Con)]

The noble Baroness makes a good point. Indeed, in thinking about this, I was also thinking about situations which affect the whole class—for example, where a member of the class tragically is killed. The very valid point she raised also affects teachers, not just pupils. I come back to the fact that schools need to implement a strong, pastoral approach across their school community, balancing their own insight and the relationships and trust they have with pupils and colleagues with the resources in their local community and the national resources that we signpost and provide.

Education (Non-religious Philosophical Convictions) Bill [HL]

Baroness Barran Excerpts

2nd reading
Friday 3rd February 2023 Lords Chamber

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department for Education (Baroness Barran) (Con)]

My Lords, I offer my congratulations to the noble Baroness, Lady Burt of Solihull, on securing a Second Reading of her Bill. As we have heard from your Lordships, high-quality religious education is an important part of a rich curriculum and supporting pupils to understanding the value and traditions of Britain and other countries. I thank the right reverend Prelate the Bishop of Southwark for eloquently making that point about our culture.

While I welcome the noble Baroness’s continued commitment to ensuring that RE remains at the forefront of discussions in this House, I must express reservations about this Bill on behalf of the Government. In doing so, I would like to clarify for your Lordships the Government’s policy on RE and how current provision already addresses, in the main, the Bill’s principal intentions.

The Bill seeks to introduce, as we have heard, an explicit requirement for schools in England, with the exception of voluntary aided schools with a religious character, to teach non-religious worldviews as part of their RE curricula. This is only right. As the noble Baroness, Lady Wilcox, said, there has undoubtedly been a shift in belief over the last decade. The 2021 census showed a 13 percentage-point decrease in the number of people who describe themselves as Christian, and a 12 percentage-point increase in the number who describe themselves as having “no religion”—although I must say that I am rather drawn to the definition given by the noble Lord, Lord Cashman, from Sister Christine, of religion being about love, but perhaps that is for another debate.

Nevertheless, Christianity remains the most common response in the census, and it is therefore appropriate that religious education in schools without a religious designation should continue to be, in the main, of a broadly or wholly Christian nature. The Government consider the Bill to be an unnecessary amendment to that, given that RE may already include the concepts of both religious beliefs and non-religious worldviews. In many cases, non-religious worldviews are integral to RE, and this is evident when looking at the contents of the department’s religious studies GCSE and A-level subject content specifications.

While the Government’s view is that RE is an important subject, we think it equally important that parents and older students are free to exercise their right of withdrawal. As such, a child or young person can be withdrawn for all or just part of their school’s RE curriculum without having to give a reason. It is permissible, therefore, for pupils to be withdrawn from all or some religious aspects of RE, while continuing to attend lessons on non-religious worldviews. For that reason, the Government do not think it appropriate or necessary to enforce the production and delivery of a discrete, parallel curriculum on non-religious worldviews for those who have been withdrawn from RE. A number of your Lordships raised the very important issues of individual liberty and tolerance of those of different convictions. Of course, that is covered in the wider school curriculum.

A number of your Lordships, including the noble Baronesses, Lady Burt and Lady Wilcox, and the noble Lord, Lord Griffiths, referred to the situation in Wales. Let me clarify a couple of points that distinguish the situation in Wales from that in England. First, as noble Lords are well aware, Wales does not have an established church—in other words, a church recognised by law as the official church of the state and supported by civil authority. Secondly, my understanding—noble Lords will correct me if I am wrong—is that the Welsh Government, through the new legislation implemented in, I think, September last year, have removed the right for parents to withdraw their children from that education.

The Bill also represents a significant departure from the current Government policy on curriculum design and implementation. The Government believe that RE curricula should continue to be designed at a local level, for many of the reasons your Lordships raised earlier in this debate, whether this be through locally agreed syllabuses or by individual schools. Continuing with this model ensures that local demographics can be appropriately accounted for, including where this relates to non-religious worldviews.

It is the opinion of this Government that there is no need to amend the legislation surrounding the provision of religious education in schools, especially where this relates to the inclusion of non-religious worldviews in the curriculum, the provision of an alternative non-religious worldviews curriculum for those who withdraw from RE or the membership of SACREs. We know that most schools are already integrating non-religious worldviews into their RE provision, and that non-religious representation already exists on many SACREs across the country. We will continue to trust our schools to deliver high quality religious education that is reflective of all beliefs and inclusive of the local demographic.