European Union (Withdrawal) Bill

Baroness Evans of Bowes Park Excerpts

Ping Pong (Hansard): House of Lords
Wednesday 20th June 2018 Lords Chamber

Moved by

[Baroness Evans of Bowes Park]

That the Commons amendments be now considered forthwith.

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Moved by

[Baroness Evans of Bowes Park]

That this House do agree with the Commons in their amendments 19R to 19T.

COMMONS AMENDMENTS IN LIEU
The Commons disagree to Lords Amendment 19 but propose Amendments 19A and 19B in lieu

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19T: Line 50, leave out from “motion” to second “the” and insert “in neutral terms, to the effect that the House of Commons has considered the matter of”

[Baroness Evans of Bowes Park]

My Lords, on Monday evening this House voted to send Amendment 19P back to the other place because, as noble Lords supporting it made clear during the debate, they wanted to guarantee that the other place had the chance to consider that amendment. The other place has now had that chance and has voted to reject Amendment 19P, by a majority of 16, and to offer in its place the Government’s amendment. As noble Lords will be aware, this issue is the only outstanding point of difference on the Bill after many months of intensive scrutiny by both Houses. We and the House of Commons have debated this issue on multiple occasions. Where we stand today demonstrates the movement that has happened as a result.

As I outlined to the House on Monday, the amendment before us again today provides that, if Parliament rejects the final deal we make with the EU, the Government must bring forward not just a Statement but also a Motion. This will guarantee an opportunity for both Houses to express their views on the Government’s proposed next steps. The amendment also covers three sets of circumstances in which that opportunity would arise: should Parliament reject the Government’s deal with the EU, should no agreement be reached, or should no deal be agreed by 21 January 2019. As my right honourable friend the Secretary of State said earlier today, the amendment sets out in law a formal structure for Parliament to express its views in each of three possible scenarios set out. Importantly, the amendment also passes the Government’s three tests: it does not undermine the negotiations; it does not change the constitutional role of Parliament and Government in negotiating international treaties; and it respects the result of the referendum.

Respectfully, I submit that your Lordships’ House has done its job. We asked the House of Commons to consider this issue again. They have done that. They have rejected our suggestion and supported the Government’s amendment. I believe that our role is now to accept their view as expressed in the vote only a few hours ago. I hope that noble Lords, whatever their personal views on the issue at hand, will agree. In conclusion, I think we should reflect for a moment, as a House, on the milestone that the passage of the Bill will represent. This House and the other place have spent 11 months considering the Bill line by line. It is better for that work. The Bill’s passage will mean that the UK has the tools it needs to preserve the statute book after exit day, but it is not the end of the process of legislating for Brexit: this House will continue to play a critical role in the months and years ahead and I, for my part, know that it will be more than up to performing this task and complementing the work of the other place. I beg to move.

[Baroness Hayter of Kentish Town (Lab)]

My Lords, the House of Commons has done what we had hoped: they have considered and debated our meaningful vote amendment. They have not done what some of us hoped and agreed with it, but I think we should celebrate how far we have come on this issue since the Bill arrived in this House. At that stage, there was absolutely nothing in the Bill about a vote, meaningful or otherwise, on the withdrawal deal and there was no mention of no deal. All the Prime Minister had said was that there would be a vote in both Houses on a deal. There was no commitment to that in law and the result of such a vote would have had no legislative consequence. The vote would have simply been on a Motion, which could be ignored—I will not go into whether it would have been amendable. Any such vote in this Chamber would have been particularly meaningless, as either we would have felt obliged to vote the same way as the Commons, whatever our view, or we would have voted differently and then been ignored, both of those, of course, being meaningless for this House, because as my noble friend Lord Grocott rightly feared, if there were two votes, one in each House, it would raise the question of the primacy of the House of Commons.

So that was all we had: the promise of a Motion but untied to any legislation. What we now have in the Bill is that the withdrawal agreement, including the framework for the future relationship, can be ratified only if it has been approved by the Commons and debated here. That is a legislative requirement akin to the Article 50 requirement for a vote in the European Parliament. That is a major concession. It would not have been there without the hard work of the noble Viscount, Lord Hailsham, without your Lordships’ commitment to ensuring that this matter was in the Bill, and without us sending the amendment back on Monday.

However, I have a query about what would happen if there was no deal, as to my mind the rather extraordinary last-minute Written Ministerial Statement, as a result of which Dominic Grieve seems to have felt that he could support the Government this afternoon, does not really clarify things. I am not sure what it means. Will the Motion be amendable? Liam Fox is already out and about, briefing that actually there is no change as a result of that. To me, it reads that it still leaves it to the Speaker to decide whether or not it is sufficiently neutral to be amendable. So it is not actually an undertaking that such a Motion will be amendable. Perhaps the Leader could shed a bit of light on the significance of what made such a difference to the right honourable Dominic Grieve.

In the meantime, with the catalogue of changes to the Bill outlined by my noble friend Lady Smith on Monday and the insertion of parliamentary approval of the withdrawal deal agreed today, I hope even the Government will recognise the vital role played by your Lordships’ House, and that our detractors, particularly in parts of the press, will realise that it is our role to ask the Government, and the Commons, to think again. We have done that, and to quite a large extent we have been heard.

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[Baroness Evans of Bowes Park]

My Lords, as I hope I draw this debate to a close, I would like to take this opportunity to express my gratitude to all noble Lords who have engaged constructively with the Government throughout our consideration of this Bill. I am sure that noble Lords on all Benches will join me in paying tribute to the staff of the House who have worked tirelessly and professionally to support that consideration.

I would also like to pay tribute to the work of my Front Bench colleagues and those of the Opposition and Liberal Democrat parties who have worked on this Bill. Their stamina alone, as has been seen on the Back Benches across the House, has been incredibly impressive, as has the quality of debate and scrutiny that they have engaged in.

Finally, I am sure that all noble Lords will join me in thanking the members of the Bill team for their hard work. I hope that at some point they will be able to look back over the past 11 months with some kind of pleasure, but I expect that that may take quite a while. On behalf of the House, we are extremely grateful to them.

Despite the comments of the noble Lord, Lord Adonis, I think that the scrutiny of your Lordships’ House has seen improvements made to this Bill. More than 230 amendments have been made by both Houses, and while there are a number of issues on which the Government did not agree, I am pleased that we have been able to find solutions and compromises to most of the concerns raised.

The subject before us today—the way in which Parliament can have a meaningful say about our exit from the EU—is a vitally important matter. We have debated it at length, and as the noble Baroness, Lady Hayter, said, the proposition in the Bill is very different as a result of that debate. But the elected Chamber has now made its decision, a decision that your Lordships said on Monday that they wanted to give it the opportunity to take. The elected Chamber has decided how it wishes to proceed: with considering the Motions offered by the Government’s amendment. I now ask this House to respect that decision. I beg to move.

Motion A agreed.

Business of the House

Baroness Evans of Bowes Park Excerpts

Thursday 14th June 2018 Lords Chamber

Moved by

[Baroness Evans of Bowes Park]

That the debate on the motion in the name of Lord Bassam of Brighton set down for today shall be limited to 3 hours and that in the name of Baroness Prosser to 2 hours.

[The Lord Privy Seal (Baroness Evans of Bowes Park) (Con)]

My Lords, in moving this Motion I remind the House that we will interrupt the first debate just before midday so that the House can join in the national minute’s silence to remember the victims of the Grenfell Tower fire on 14 June 2017. I beg to move.

[Lord Wallace of Saltaire (LD)]

My Lords, perhaps I might take this opportunity to ask the Leader of the House about future business. We have a very light level of business at present but we have been told to expect a series of Bills, followed by up to 1,000 SIs, by the end of November to enable us to leave the European Union by March 2019. Given that those Bills have not yet reached us and that there are a large number to come—I am sure that the noble Baroness will support the House in wanting to thoroughly scrutinise them and the SIs—are contingency plans being made for the House to meet for longer hours or on more days from the end of the summer onwards so that we can get through this business before we leave the European Union?

[Baroness Evans of Bowes Park]

We will certainly make sure that we give noble Lords ample time to scrutinise everything that is necessary. The usual channels will continue to discuss this. We will bring business forward as soon as we can and make sure that noble Lords do their excellent job of looking at the legislation that is coming forward.

Motion agreed.

G7: Charlevoix, Quebec

Baroness Evans of Bowes Park Excerpts

Monday 11th June 2018 Lords Chamber

[The Lord Privy Seal (Baroness Evans of Bowes Park) (Con)]

My Lords, with the leave of the House I will now repeat a Statement made by my right honourable friend the Prime Minister in another place. The Statement is as follows:

“With permission, Mr Speaker, I would like to make a Statement on the G7 summit in Quebec. The G7 is a forum that allows close allies with shared history and values to discuss issues that affect the security and prosperity of our people and of the world at large. Discussion at this year’s summit focused on our shared efforts to promote the rules-based international order; to advance free and fair global trade by making the global economy work for everyone; to strive for equal opportunities for all our citizens; and to drive further action to protect the environment, and in particular our oceans. As was clear over the weekend, there was strong debate and disagreement on some issues, but, after detailed discussions between leaders and our teams, we were able to find common ground and draw up a communiqué which reflected these discussions and the agreements we reached.

I want to pay particular tribute to Prime Minister Trudeau for his leadership and skilful chairing, which enabled us—after two days of negotiation between leaders—to agree actions and a shared approach on some of the most pressing challenges facing the international community and our citizens. The UK fully intends to honour the commitments we have made.

Recent events have underlined the importance of a strong international response to malign state activity. We cannot stand by when international law is undermined, when the security of our citizens is compromised and when foreign interference in our democratic institutions threatens the values and interests that we share. So at this summit we agreed to establish a new rapid response mechanism. As a result, G7 nations will work together to share intelligence, co-ordinate action and develop new strategies to tackle this growing threat.

We also agreed that we must maintain the global norm against the use of chemical weapons and that we will strengthen the ability of the Organisation for the Prohibition of Chemical Weapons to attribute responsibility for chemical weapon attacks. We all agreed in our discussions and our communiqué that we need to maintain sanctions on Russia in light of its failure to fully implement the Minsk agreements in Ukraine and that we stand ready to take further restrictive measures if necessary.

Turning to trade and the global economy, it is clear that in many of our countries some people feel left behind by globalisation and that not all countries are playing by the rules. We must address this. We need to make the international rules-based trading system work better so that the benefits of free trade can be felt by all. This includes encouraging the World Trade Organization to operate more effectively in supporting a global economy that works for everyone. Multilateral action is the right way to achieve this. It cannot be done by taking unilateral action against your partners.

So at this summit we expressed deep disappointment at the unjustified decision of the United States to apply tariffs to steel and aluminium imports. The loss of trade through tariffs undermines competition, reduces productivity, removes the incentive to innovate and ultimately makes everyone poorer—and in response the EU will impose countermeasures. But we need to avoid a continued tit-for-tat escalation. That is why it was right that we had such an open and direct discussion at this summit and why, as a champion of free trade, the UK will continue to support a constructive dialogue. As long-standing allies we do not make progress by ignoring each other’s concerns but rather by addressing them together.

Turning to equality, there was a special session at this summit focused on empowering and supporting women and girls around the world. Efforts to tackle global poverty are fundamentally undermined as long as millions of girls are not getting the education they deserve. So at this summit the United Kingdom announced £187 million of new funding to support over 400,000 girls in developing countries in getting 12 years of quality education.

We also called for new action to prevent gender-based violence, abuse and harassment online. Women and girls must be able to use the internet without fear of being subjected to online rape threats, harassment, cyberstalking, blackmail and more. Following the UK’s call for action last year, tech companies have made real advances in tackling online terrorist propaganda. In Canada I called for this work to be extended to end the abuse targeted specifically at women and girls. We committed in particular to new joint working on stopping the internet being used to facilitate people trafficking for the purposes of sexual exploitation.

Finally, on World Oceans Day, the UK sought to build on the international agreements we reached at the Commonwealth summit in April by calling for a global effort to protect our oceans from avoidable plastic waste. This is one of the great environmental challenges facing the world today. This summit recognised the need for global action, including working with business, industry and non-governmental organisations to find innovative solutions. The UK is continuing to lead by example at home through our 25-year environment plan, and on Friday we proposed to extend the blue belt protecting sea life around the English coast, with a further 41 new marine conservation zones.

This was a difficult summit with, at times, some very candid discussions, but the conclusion I draw is that it is only through continued dialogue that we can find ways to work together to resolve the challenges we face. The countries around the G7 table have been pillars of the rules-based international order, which has benefited all our citizens and, I believe, the world as a whole. The United Kingdom, with our allies and partners, will continue to play our part in promoting that order to the benefit of all. I commend this Statement to the House”.

My Lords, that concludes the Statement.

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[Lord Newby (LD)]

My Lords, it is easy to feel some sympathy for the Prime Minister and the other non-US members of the G7 today. It must be extraordinarily frustrating dealing with an American president given to “fits of anger”, to quote President Macron, and they must all share Chancellor Merkel’s view that it was “sobering and a little depressing”. Again, Sir Humphrey would appreciate the understatement in that phrase.

For the Prime Minister and her colleagues, though, it must be particularly depressing because a large part of the case which Liam Fox, Boris Johnson and others make for Brexit rests on the assertion that the UK will receive a warmer welcome from the other English-speaking countries in negotiating favourable free trade arrangements if we free ourselves from the shackles of the EU. America’s supposed commitment to free trade was the key to that argument, as was the closeness of the special relationship which, we were told, would guarantee British leaders easy and preferential access to the White House. President Trump has now demonstrated that he does not believe in the special relationship at all. The Prime Minister does not even feature in the list of leaders with whom he has a good relationship—or, rather, had a good relationship, before he fell out with all of them—and he rejects the principles of free trade. This leaves the justification for leaving the EU to pursue more open markets elsewhere dead in the water. How appropriate that it was World Oceans Day with the Government and the G7 so at sea.

The G7 meeting has rightly been described as a G6 plus one, with the UK aligned with France, Germany, Italy, Canada and Japan in resisting the arguments of the US. However, only last week our Foreign Secretary was describing our European neighbours as the enemy rather than the allies with whom we are most closely associated and with whom we share interests and such close values. It is hardly surprising that the Prime Minister appeared to play only a marginal role in this summit, while Merkel and Macron stood up to Trump. Is it not the case that we have now marginalised ourselves as a nation and lack any coherent foreign policy whatsoever? The EU will now impose retaliatory measures against the US tariffs on steel and aluminium, but the Prime Minister is urging caution. In the Statement, she says that she wants to avoid tit-for-tat measures, but that is what countermeasures are. Could the Leader of the House, therefore, explain what sort of measures the PM does think appropriate? Could she explain what the Prime Minister hopes to gain by resisting calls from the rest of the EU for a firmer response?

The Prime Minister also said that, as long-standing allies, we do not make progress by ignoring each other’s concerns but by addressing them together. What do those words mean in the context of the attitude of President Trump, and by what means does the Prime Minister propose to do this in practice? Is she really going to start replying to President Trump’s tweets, or is there some sense in her mind about what those words might mean?

The world today is in greater disarray than it has been for decades. Nothing in the Prime Minister’s Statement would give you any sense that that is the case. In these circumstances, you need to embrace your friends in order to rebuff those who do you harm. This weekend has demonstrated that our friends are in Europe, and that we should be standing with them and not planning a walk into the wilderness.

[Baroness Evans of Bowes Park]

My Lords, I am grateful to the noble Baroness and the noble Lord for their comments. I say again, as the Prime Minister made clear in her statement, this was a challenging summit, and we are not denying that, and there were difficult discussions, but we continue to believe that continued dialogue is the way to make progress.

In relation to the communiqué, as we said, it was agreed by all parties. We fully intend to honour it, and we certainly hope that the US will also stand by the agreements made, and we will continue to have discussions around that.

On the question that the noble Baroness asked about Russia, the Prime Minister was very clear that, before any conversations can take place about Russia’s future involvement in this group, it must change its approach. Of course, we have to remind ourselves why the G8 became the G7. It was because of Russia’s illegal annexation of Crimea—again, a point that was reiterated at the summit.

On the questions on climate change, the Prime Minister once again made it clear that we remain firmly committed to the Paris Agreement, and the international momentum that underpins it, we believe, is irreversible. What we now need to do to move forward is agree on a robust set of rules to enable it to function effectively. While we may differ on the Paris Agreement, we still believe that within the G7 we can work together on solutions to address impacts and build greater resilience while creating economic opportunities.

The noble Baroness rightly raised the issue of the ship that was not taken by Italy or Malta. I think it is good that Spain has now said that it will step in, so we are very pleased that progress has been made there. Of course, we will continue to support international efforts to effectively manage migration flows, tackle people smuggling and prevent people from making perilous journeys across the central Mediterranean Sea. We are committed to working with European partners in continuing with our efforts to aid Italy and other countries with the issues that they face.

On the comments by the noble Baroness and the noble Lord, Lord Newby, about our relationship with the United States, it is true that of course difficulties were experienced in the summit, but we remain strong partners and allies. We have of course recently worked together to expel Russian spies, to increase bilateral data sharing and to make plans for the next generation of F35s. Of course, when the President visits in July, we will be able to continue some of the discussions that we have had over the past few days.

The noble Baroness asked about the £187 million of new funding announced at the summit. That will support more than 400,000 marginalised girls in developing countries such as Afghanistan, Ethiopia, Somalia, Zimbabwe, Nepal and the Democratic Republic of Congo. It builds on the commitments made at the Commonwealth summit and the announcement of £212 million for phase 2 of the Girls’ Education Challenge. Those funds will help nearly 1 million marginalised girls across the Commonwealth to benefit from quality education to 2025.

The noble Lord and the noble Baroness both asked, quite rightly, about tariffs. I reiterate the point that the EU will impose countermeasures, but we all want to avoid a continued escalation and to maintain a constructive dialogue. We will continue to work with the EU and the US to achieve a permanent exemption. The Commission is required to seek member state approval for any countermeasures to come into effect; it has announced its intention to do that this month. We made the point that we believe that the US tariffs hit the wrong target. China alone was responsible for roughly half of the overcapacity in steel in 2017. We believe that we need to use the G20 Global Forum on Steel Excess Capacity, in which China is involved, to help encourage a reduction in excess capacity. We also need a concerted international push to strengthen the global system of trade rules.

We of course want to continue to work constructively with our EU partners and friends. At this summit, we stood firm with them on a number of issues and we will continue to do so.

[Lord Wallace of Saltaire (LD)]

My Lords, does the Leader of the House accept that, for some of us, this is an almost surreal communiqué? It talks about the agreement of communiqué, but the President of United States has already resisted it. We are committed to the World Trade Organization, but the United States Administration are currently doing their utmost to undermine the global trading system, including—as I read in my emails this morning—by resisting the appointment of new judges to the arbitration procedures. So we have a crisis in the global trading system that this Statement does not begin to reflect.

Does the noble Baroness also accept that the commitment to a “rules-based trading system”, which is again proclaimed in the Statement, is resisted by many within her own party as incompatible with British sovereignty when it comes to the European Union and that their suggestion that the World Trade Organization will be sufficient does not come to terms either with the weakness of the world trading system or with the necessary compromises of sovereignty which those international rules would require of Britain?

Lastly and most importantly, since the Secretary of State for International Trade and the Foreign Secretary appear to regard the EU as the enemy, and the sooner we get out from co-operating with it the better, can the noble Baroness inform us whether we intend to co-operate with the other members of the EU in imposing countermeasures for the next nine months, for the next nine months plus the transition and implementation period or for longer? We thought that solidarity with the EU was something that we were about to get rid of.

[Baroness Evans of Bowes Park]

I reiterate that we remain a leading supporter of the global rules-based trading system. However, we accept that some elements of the WTO could be improved and we will continue to discuss issues such as improving transparency and dealing with state-owned enterprises and industrial subsidies with our partners—but we believe that the WTO plays an important role at the centre of our system.

On the noble Lord’s question on steel tariffs, I have said that we are working with our EU partners to achieve a permanent exemption. We will work with them in relation to countermeasures. The Commission will be required to seek member state approval for these to come into effect, which it intends to do this month. We will of course be involved in those discussions.

[Lord Browne of Ladyton (Lab)]

My Lords, I thank the Leader of the House for the repetition of the Prime Minister’s Statement, which contained a report that the G7 agreed to strengthen the power of the OPCW to attribute chemical attacks. The OPCW does not have such a power—another UN body did, but it was closed when the Russians exercised their veto to stop its mandate being renewed. So how does the G7 without Russia intend to give this power to any body in the United Nations? Is there any explanation? What did the Prime Minister actually agree to?

[Baroness Evans of Bowes Park]

The communiqué agreed that we must maintain the global norms against the use of chemical weapons and there was agreement among leaders on the need to strengthen the ability—as the noble Lord pointed out, it is not there at the moment—of the Organisation for the Prohibition of Chemical Weapons to attribute responsibility for chemical weapons attacks. As he will be aware, there is a special conference of state parties later this month, which will be an important moment to demonstrate our determination to reinforce the Chemical Weapons Convention. We will, of course, be an active participant.

[Lord Cormack (Con)]

My Lords, it would appear from what happened earlier today or late yesterday that President Trump has dissociated himself from the communiqué. Is that officially the position, or is the United States still officially signed up? When are we likely to have the pleasure of welcoming President Trump to this country? I think it would be a good thing if he did come, because he could hear what we think, as well as us hearing what he thinks. Has his invitation been confirmed?

[Baroness Evans of Bowes Park]

As I think I mentioned in answer to another question, the communiqué was agreed by all parties. We fully intend to honour it and we hope that the US will continue to stand by the agreements made. I believe that President Trump’s visit is on 13 July: I could be wrong but it is certainly in July. He and the Prime Minister discussed the visit briefly and both are looking forward to it.

[Lord Touhig (Lab)]

My Lords, the G7 was a total disaster so far as the values of freedom and democracy that we in the West have upheld for decades are concerned. The next major meeting of international leadership will be the NATO summit next month. What lessons do the Government think they will have learned from the G7, particularly about President Trump’s views on NATO, to ensure that the NATO summit does not end up like the G7?

[Baroness Evans of Bowes Park]

As the Statement said, the conclusion the Prime Minister drew from this summit is that it is only through continued dialogue, through whichever forums, that we can work together to resolve issues that may have been raised. Of course, we will also make very clear to President Trump, as we have been doing consistently, that we are firmly committed to meeting the NATO commitment to spend 2% of GDP. Chancellor Merkel herself has admitted that President Trump has a point about Germany’s comparative low defence budget, so I am sure that there will again be robust discussions, but I am sure that continued dialogue is the way forward. President Trump has identified his commitment to NATO in the past and we look forward to seeing that continued during the summit.

[Lord Tyler (LD)]

My Lords, the noble Baroness’s answer to the noble Lord, Lord Cormack, leaves the House in even greater confusion. Is it the position of the Government that President Trump still endorses the final communiqué that he is said to have signed, or that he does not? On what evidence does the noble Baroness say that she thinks that he does still intend to support the commitments in the communiqué?

[Baroness Evans of Bowes Park]

What I said was that we hope that they will continue to stand by the arrangements. I do not speak for President Trump, so I cannot give the noble Lord the answer he wants. I think I have been pretty clear about our position and what we expect and hope to see from the United States.

[Lord Jones of Birmingham (CB)]

Will the Minister please give us the benefit of her observation on the fact that we heard only a few months ago from members of the Opposition in this House and the other place that President Trump would not be welcome in this country and that the Government should not extend an invitation to him—yet those same people are now saying that we are at the bottom of the list of his affection? I would suggest that hypocrisy comes to mind.

[Baroness Evans of Bowes Park]

As I mentioned, the President and the Prime Minister had a brief word about his visit; they are both looking forward to it. We will take the opportunity to advance our common interests further, reflect on the importance of the relationship between our two countries and, no doubt, have further robust conversations.

[Viscount Waverley (CB)]

My Lords, Russia has been mentioned on a number of occasions this afternoon. Is it anticipated that sanctions targeting Russia will exist in perpetuity, given that there are many who apparently believe that they will never exit Crimea—or were different scenarios considered?

[Baroness Evans of Bowes Park]

The leaders were very clear that the duration of sanctions is linked to Russia’s complete implementation of its commitments in the Minsk agreements, and we stand ready to take further restrictive measures if necessary, should their actions require it.

[Baroness Smith of Basildon]

My Lords, as we have time, I wonder whether I can help the noble Baroness. She was asked twice about President Trump’s reaction to the communiqué and whether he has signed it. In a tweet yesterday, he said:

“Based on Justin’s false statements at his news conference, and the fact that Canada is charging massive tariffs to our US farmers, workers and companies, I have instructed our US reps not to endorse the communique as we look at tariffs on automobiles flooding the US market!”.


It would seem clear that he has withdrawn any support he gave to the communiqué at the meeting.

[Baroness Evans of Bowes Park]

As I have said in answers to a number of questions, all I can say is that we hope that they continue to stand by the agreements. We will certainly continue to honour them and we will continue to have discussions with President Trump on these issues.

[Lord Wallace of Saltaire]

May I ask again for a reply to the question I asked: will we continue to apply EU countermeasures to the United States after March 2019? This is an important question—and if there is no answer now, could we have one in the next few days?

[Baroness Evans of Bowes Park]

What I can certainly say is that we understand the importance of the steel industry in this country. We want to make sure that jobs are protected and we will continue to do that going forward. I will see if there is any further information that I can provide.

[Lord Faulks (Con)]

My Lords, the Leader of the House will confirm that, notwithstanding our leaving the European Union, we will still be a member of the G7, working closely with other members, and that we will be in a position to agree and, in so far as possible, enforce any relevant sanctions.

[Baroness Evans of Bowes Park]

Yes, my noble friend is absolutely right.

Intergenerational Fairness and Provision Committee

Baroness Evans of Bowes Park Excerpts

Wednesday 9th May 2018 Lords Chamber

Moved by

[Baroness Evans of Bowes Park]

Intergenerational Fairness and Provision

Syria

Baroness Evans of Bowes Park Excerpts

Monday 16th April 2018 Lords Chamber

[The Lord Privy Seal (Baroness Evans of Bowes Park) (Con)]

My Lords, with the leave of the House, I will now repeat a Statement made by my right honourable friend the Prime Minister in another place:

“Mr Speaker, I would like to start by saying that I am sure the whole House will wish to join me in offering our heartfelt condolences to the family and friends of Sergeant Matt Tonroe from the 3rd Battalion the Parachute Regiment, who was killed by an improvised explosive device on 29 March. Sergeant Tonroe was embedded with US forces on a counter-Daesh operation. He served his country with great distinction and it is clear he was a gifted and intelligent instructor who was respected by everyone he served with. Sergeant Tonroe fought to protect British values and our freedoms, and to keep this country safe.

With permission, I would like to make a Statement on the actions that we have taken, together with our American and French allies, to degrade the Syrian regime’s chemical weapons capabilities and to deter their future use.

On Saturday 7 April, up to 70 people, including young children, were killed in a horrific attack in Douma, with as many as 500 further casualties. All indications are that this was a chemical weapons attack. UK medical and scientific experts have analysed open-source reports, images and video footage from the incident and have concluded that the victims were exposed to a toxic chemical. This is corroborated by first-hand accounts from NGOs and aid workers.

The World Health Organization received reports that hundreds of patients arrived at Syrian heath facilities on Saturday night with,

‘signs and symptoms consistent with exposure to toxic chemicals’.

Based on our assessment, we do not think that these reports could be falsified on this scale. Furthermore, the Syrian regime has reportedly been attempting to conceal the evidence by searching evacuees from Douma to ensure samples are not being smuggled from this area. A wider operation to conceal the facts of the attack is under way, supported by the Russians.

The images of this suffering are utterly haunting—innocent families, seeking shelter in underground bunkers, found dead with foam in their mouths, burns to their eyes and their bodies surrounded by a chlorine-like odour, and children gasping for life as chemicals choked their lungs. The fact that such an atrocity can take place in our world today is a stain on our humanity, and we are clear about who is responsible. A significant body of information, including intelligence, indicates the Syrian regime is responsible for this latest attack. Open-source accounts state that barrel bombs were used to deliver the chemicals. Barrel bombs are usually delivered by helicopters. Multiple open-source reports and intelligence indicate that regime helicopters operated over Douma on the evening of 7 April, shortly before reports emerged on social media of a chemical attack, and that Syrian military officials co-ordinated what appears to be the use of chlorine weapons.

No other group could have carried out this attack. The opposition do not operate helicopters or use barrel bombs, and Daesh does not even have a presence in Douma. The reports of this attack are consistent with previous regime attacks. These include the attack on 21 August 2013, when over 800 people were killed and thousands more injured in a chemical attack also in Ghouta. Fourteen further smaller-scale chemical attacks were reported prior to that summer, with three further chlorine attacks in 2014 and 2015 which the independent UNSC-mandated investigation attributed to the regime, and there was the attack at Khan Shaykhun on 4 April last year, where the Syrian regime used sarin against its people, killing around 100 with a further 500 casualties.

Based on the regime’s persistent pattern of behaviour and the cumulative analysis of specific incidents, we judged it highly likely that the Syrian regime had continued to use chemical weapons on at least four occasions since the attack in Khan Shaykhun, and we judged that it would have continued to do so, so we needed to intervene rapidly to alleviate further indiscriminate humanitarian suffering. We have explored every possible diplomatic channel to do so but our efforts have been repeatedly thwarted.

Following the sarin attack in eastern Damascus back in August 2013, the Syrian regime committed to dismantle its chemical weapon programme and Russia promised to ensure that Syria did this, overseen by the Organisation for the Prohibition of Chemical Weapons. At the weekend, the leader of the Opposition cited this diplomatic agreement as,

‘precedent that this process can work’.

But this process did not work. It did not eradiate the chemical weapons capability of the Syrian regime, with only last month the OPCW finding that Syria’s declaration of its former chemical weapons programme is incomplete. As I have already set out, it did not stop the Syrian regime from carrying out the most abhorrent atrocities using these weapons. Furthermore, on each occasion when we have seen every sign of chemical weapons being used, Russia has blocked any attempt to hold the perpetrators to account at the UN Security Council, with six such vetoes since the start of 2017. And just last week, Russia blocked a UN resolution that would have established an independent investigation able to determine responsibility for this latest attack. So regrettably, we had no choice but to conclude that diplomatic action on its own is not going to work. The leader of the Opposition has said that he can countenance involvement in Syria only if there is UN authority behind it. The House should be clear that that would mean a Russian veto on our foreign policy.

When the Cabinet met on Thursday, we considered the advice of the Attorney-General. Based on this advice we agreed that it was not just morally right but also legally right to take military action, together with our closest allies, to alleviate further humanitarian suffering. This was not about intervening in a civil war and it was not about regime change. It was about a limited, targeted and effective strike that sought to alleviate the humanitarian suffering of the Syrian people by degrading the Syrian regime’s chemical weapons capability and deterring their use.

We have published the legal basis for this action. It required three conditions to be met. First, there must be convincing evidence, generally accepted by the international community as a whole, of extreme humanitarian distress on a large scale requiring immediate and urgent relief. Secondly, it must be objectively clear that there is no practicable alternative to the use of force if lives are to be saved. Thirdly, the proposed use of force must be necessary and proportionate to the aim of relief of humanitarian suffering and must be strictly limited in time and in scope to this aim. These are the same three criteria used as the legal justification for the UK’s role in the NATO intervention in Kosovo. Our interventions, in 1991 with the US and France and in 1992 with the US, to create safe havens and enforce the no-fly zones in Iraq following the Gulf War were also justified on the basis of humanitarian intervention. Governments of all colours have long considered that military action, on an exceptional basis where necessary and proportionate, and as a last resort to avert an overwhelming humanitarian catastrophe, is permissible under international law.

I have set out why we are convinced by the evidence and why there was no practicable alternative. Let me set out how this military response was also proportionate. This was a limited, targeted and effective strike that would significantly degrade Syrian chemical weapons capabilities and deter their future use, and with clear boundaries that expressly sought to avoid escalation and did everything possible to prevent civilian casualties. As a result, the co-ordinated actions of the US, the UK and France were successfully and specifically targeted at three sites.

Contrary to what the leader of the Opposition said at the weekend, these were not ‘empty buildings’. The first was the Barzeh branch of the Scientific Studies and Research Centre in northern Damascus. This was a centre for the research and development of Syria’s chemical and biological programme. It was hit by 57 American TLAMs and 19 American JASSMs.

The second site was the Him Shinsar chemical weapons bunkers, 15 miles west of the city of Homs, which contained both a chemical weapons equipment and storage facility and an important command post. These were successfully hit by seven French Scalp cruise missiles. The third site was the Him Shinsar chemical weapons storage site and former missile base, which is now a military facility. This was assessed to be a location of Syrian sarin and precursor production equipment whose destruction would degrade Syria’s ability to deliver sarin in the future. This was hit by nine US TLAMs, five naval and two Scalp cruise missiles from France, and eight Storm Shadow missiles launched by our four RAF Tornado GR4s. Very careful scientific analysis was used to determine where best to target these missiles to maximise the destruction of stockpiled chemicals and to minimise any risks to the surrounding area, and the facility that we targeted is located some distance from any known population centres, reducing yet further any such risk of civilian casualties.

While targeted and limited, these strikes by the US, UK and France were significantly larger than the US action a year ago after the attack at Khan Shaykhun—and specifically designed to have a greater impact on the regime’s capability and willingness to use chemical weapons. We also minimised the chances of wider escalation through our carefully targeted approach and the House will note that Russia has not reported any losses of personnel or equipment as a result of the strikes. I am sure that the whole House will want to join me in paying tribute to all the British service men and women—and their American and French allies—who successfully carried out this mission with such courage and professionalism.

Let me deal specifically with three important questions. First, why did we not wait for the investigation from the OPCW? UNSC-mandated inspectors have investigated previous attacks and on four occasions decided that the regime was indeed responsible. We are confident in our own assessment that the Syrian regime was highly likely responsible for this attack and that its persistent pattern of behaviour meant that it was highly likely to continue using chemical weapons. Furthermore, there were clearly attempts to block any proper investigation, as we saw with the Russian veto at the UN earlier in the week.

Let me set this out in detail. We support strongly the work of the OPCW fact-finding mission that is currently in Damascus. But that mission is able to make an assessment only of whether chemical weapons were used. Even if the OPCW team is able to visit Douma to gather information to make that assessment—and it is currently being prevented from doing so by the regime and the Russians—it cannot attribute responsibility. This is because Russia vetoed in November 2017 an extension of the joint investigatory mechanism set up to do this and last week, in the wake of the Douma attack, it again vetoed a new UNSC resolution to re-establish such a mechanism. Even if we had OPCW’s findings and a mechanism to attribute, for as long as Russia continues to veto, the UN Security Council still would not be able to act, so we cannot wait to alleviate further humanitarian suffering caused by chemical weapons attacks.

Secondly, were we not just following orders from America? Let me be absolutely clear: we have acted because it is in our national interest to do so. It is in our national interest to prevent the further use of chemical weapons in Syria—and to uphold and defend the global consensus that these weapons should not be used. For we cannot allow the use of chemical weapons to become normalised—within Syria, on the streets of the UK or anywhere else. So we have not done this because President Trump asked us to do so. We have done it because we believed it was the right thing to do and we are not alone.

There is broad-based international support for the action we have taken. NATO has issued a statement setting out its support, as have the Gulf Cooperation Council and a number of countries in the region, and over the weekend I have spoken to a range of world leaders, including Chancellor Merkel, Prime Minister Gentiloni, Prime Minister Trudeau, Prime Minister Turnbull and the European Council President, Donald Tusk. All have expressed their support for the actions that Britain, France and America have taken.

Thirdly, why did we not recall Parliament? The speed with which we acted was essential in co-operating with our partners to alleviate further humanitarian suffering and to maintain the vital security of our operations. This was a limited, targeted strike on a legal basis that has been used before. It was a decision which required the evaluation of intelligence and information, much of which was of a nature that could not be shared with Parliament. We have always been clear that the Government have the right to act quickly in the national interest. I am absolutely clear that it is Parliament’s responsibility to hold me to account for such decisions. Parliament will do so, but it is my responsibility as Prime Minster to make these decisions, and I will make them.

I have been clear that this military action was not about intervening in the civil war in Syria or about regime change, but we are determined to do our utmost to help to resolve the conflict in Syria. That means concluding the fight against Daesh, which still holds pockets of territory in Syria. It means working to enable humanitarian access and continuing our efforts at the forefront of the global response, where the UK has already committed almost £2.5 billion, our largest ever response to a single humanitarian crisis. Next week we will attend the second Brussels Conference on Supporting the Future of Syria and the Region, which will focus on humanitarian support, bolstering the UN-led political process in Geneva and ensuring continued international support for refugees and host countries, thus driving forward the legacy of our own London conference held in 2016. And it means supporting international efforts to reinvigorate the process to deliver a political solution, for this is the best long-term hope for the Syrian people. The UK will do all of these things, but as I have also been clear, that is not what these military strikes were about.

As I have set out, the military action that we have taken this weekend was specifically focused on degrading the Syrian regime’s chemical weapons capability and deterring its future use. In order to achieve this, there must also be a wider diplomatic effort, including the full range of political and economic levers, to strengthen the global norms prohibiting the use of chemical weapons which have stood for nearly a century. We will continue to work with our international partners on tough economic action against those involved with the production or dissemination of chemical weapons.

I welcome the conclusions of today’s European Foreign Affairs Council, attended by my right honourable friend the Foreign Secretary, which confirmed that the Council is willing to consider further restrictive measures on those involved in the development and use of chemical weapons in Syria. We will continue to push for the re-establishment of an international investigative mechanism which can attribute responsibility for chemical weapon use in Syria. We will advance with our French allies the new International Partnership against Impunity for the Use of Chemical Weapons, which will meet in the coming weeks, and we will continue to strengthen the international coalition we have built since the attack on Salisbury.

Last Thursday’s report from the OPCW has confirmed our findings that it was indeed a Novichok attack in Salisbury, and I have placed a copy of the report’s executive summary in the Library of the House. While of a much lower order of magnitude, the use of a nerve agent on the streets of Salisbury is part of a pattern of disregard for the global norms that prohibit the use of chemical weapons. While the action was taken to alleviate humanitarian suffering in Syria by degrading the regime’s chemical weapons capability and deterring its use of these weapons, it will also send a clear message to anyone who believes that they can use chemical weapons with impunity. We cannot go back to a world where the use of chemical weapons becomes normalised.

I am deeply conscious of the gravity of these decisions. They affect all Members of this House, and me personally. I also understand the questions that rightly will be asked about British military action, particularly in such a complex region, but I am clear that the way we protect our national interest is to stand up for the global rules and standards that keep us safe. That is what we have done and what we will continue to do. I commend this Statement to the House”.

--- Later in debate ---

[Lord Newby (LD)]

My Lords, I too thank the Leader of the House for repeating the Statement. We on these Benches associate ourselves with the Government’s condolences to the family and friends of Sergeant Tonroe.

Last week, the Government and their allies were faced with a painful dilemma. The atrocious attack in Douma was only the latest and most lethal in a series of chemical attacks that have occurred in Syria over the last year. The only credible perpetrator of these attacks is the Assad regime. The stark choice which the Government and their allies faced was either to do nothing or to take some form of military action to signal our abhorrence of the use of chemical weapons. Given the attitude of the Assad regime and its Russian allies, there was, in the short term, no third effective diplomatic avenue open.

To undertake military action the Government needed to ensure that it was legal, effective and proportionate, and did not lead to an escalation of the multidimensional conflicts that beset Syria. The strict targeting of facilities, the extraordinary accuracy of the missiles, the avoidance of civilian casualties, the forewarning of the Russians and the assurance that the military action was a one-off event appear to have met those requirements. Another requirement for the use of military action, however, that was not met was the need to gain the prior approval of Parliament. It would have been possible to recall Parliament last week at very short notice and the Government should have done so. They might have had in mind the precedent of 2013, when the Commons refused to back unspecified military action in response to chemical attacks in Syria, but the hesitancy of the Commons to authorise military action then only strengthens the case for getting its approval now.

However effective the air strikes might have been in degrading Assad’s short-term ability to manufacture chemical weapons, they do not constitute a strategy. Indeed, the Government make no such claim. But the need for a way forward in Syria that goes beyond the brutal suppression of all resistance by the current regime has never been greater. As far as the UK’s role in achieving this is concerned, we can be effective only when working over a sustained period with our allies and the wider international community.

As the Statement makes clear, the Foreign Secretary has today, alongside his French counterpart, briefed the EU Foreign Affairs Council about Syria. This is commendable but, if the Government have their way, in 12 months’ time he would not be in the room. So I repeat a question that I have put before: after 29 March next year, how do the Government foresee being able to have a voice in EU Councils when they discuss Syria and foreign affairs more generally?

As for the US, it is reported that President Macron and Chancellor Merkel are to visit Washington next week. Does this mean that the French and Germans are now speaking for the European allies instead of the E3, of which the UK was a partner, which handled the Iranian nuclear negotiations?

On the prospects of a long-term settlement in Syria, while the Geneva talks appear to be deadlocked, there are more encouraging signs from the discussions convened by Russia in Sochi with the participation of the Iranians and the Turks. What is the Government’s assessment of the potential of these talks and are they in any way associating themselves with them? Will the Government offer their support to those within Syria gathering information about those committing war crimes so that they can eventually be brought to justice before the ICC?

The multi-layered conflicts being played out in Syria—Assad v al-Qaeda, Turkey v Kurds and Iran v Israel—have the potential to cause further horrific suffering and senseless violence beyond that which we have already seen. At the very least, we must ensure that action by the UK does nothing to escalate these conflicts. Last week’s raid appears not to have done so, but the Government must approach any further such interventions with great care and should take action only when they have the support of Parliament.

[Baroness Evans of Bowes Park]

I thank the noble Baroness and the noble Lord for their comments. As they will be aware, the UK is permitted under international law on an exceptional basis to take measures to alleviate human suffering, which is what we did. As the noble Baroness rightly said, we have published our legal position, which sets out how we believe that the military action taken has met this requirement. That is available for all to see.

The noble Lord and noble Baroness both asked about escalation. They are absolutely right: escalation is not in anybody’s interest, and I hope that the Statement I repeated made it clear that escalation was considered in discussions about what action to take. This was a discrete action to degrade chemical weapons and deter their use by the Syrian regime. We do not want to escalate tensions in the region. The Syrian regime and Russian and Iranian forces were not the target of the operation.

We are committed to playing our part to help the humanitarian catastrophe. As the noble Baroness rightly said, more than 400,000 people have been killed and half of Syria’s population has been displaced. As the Statement made clear, the UK is the second-biggest bilateral donor to the humanitarian response in Syria. Since 2012, our help has provided more than 26 million food rations, more than 10 million health consultations, more than 9.8 million relief packages and more than 8 million vaccinations. We have provided more than £200 million through the Conflict, Stability and Security Fund, and we remain committed to continue this within that region. I can reassure the House that we remain committed to achieving our goals in Syria: defeating the scourge of Daesh and achieving a political settlement that ends the suffering and provides stability for all Syrians. Alongside our US and French allies, we will continue to pursue diplomatic resolution—as I mentioned, there will be a further meeting of various partners next week to look at how we can continue to do that.

As I said in the Statement, and as the noble Baroness rightly mentioned, it appears that the OPCW team is being prevented from continuing its assessments in Douma. This has come out in a meeting today, so it is quite early days in terms of the information being passed back, but we will now work with our international partners to see what further steps can be taken. We must at the very least find out what is happening and we will work with our international allies to do that.

The noble Lord and noble Baroness both asked about parliamentary involvement. As I am sure they are both aware, the Cabinet Manual acknowledges that parliamentary debate is not necessary where there is an emergency and such action would not be appropriate. We believe that we acted in accordance with the convention. It was necessary to strike with speed so that we could allow our Armed Forces to act decisively, maintain the vital security of their operation and protect the security and interests of the UK. This is in accordance with the convention on the deployment of troops and Parliament.

This action has shown us once again to be playing a leading role internationally. As permanent members of the Security Council, we, the US and France have a particular role in upholding the international laws that keep us safe. That is what we were doing with this action. Support has been wide-ranging, including through many of our European allies, the EU, NATO, Canada, Saudi Arabia, Qatar and Turkey. We will continue to play a leading role in maintaining international order and making sure that we can keep people safe.

[Lord Howard of Lympne (Con)]

My Lords, does my noble friend agree that the consequences of inaction are often more serious than those that flow from action? Does she further agree that had action been taken in 2013 it might well have been unnecessary to take action now?

[Baroness Evans of Bowes Park]

I certainly agree with my noble friend that, having looked at the assessment, the intelligence and the suffering of the Syrian people we felt that action was necessary. But let us be very clear: this was a co-ordinated and targeted strike to degrade the Syrian regime’s chemical weapons capability and to ensure that chemical weapons do not become normalised, which none of us wishes to see.

[Lord Jay of Ewelme (CB)]

My Lords, I am grateful to the Leader of the House for repeating the Statement. I spoke against intervention in Syria in 2013 because I thought it was ill thought-through and poorly presented. I support the intervention this time: I believe it is properly thought-through, limited, focused and well concerted with allies. It is clearly designed to deter the use of chemical weapons. It may well do so and such deterrence is clearly to be welcomed, but this action will have little or no effect on the longer-term conflict in Syria. Will she say more about the Government’s intention to work with others—including, however difficult, the Russians and Iran—to achieve some sort of settled solution in Syria? Only in that way will there be an end to the humanitarian disaster that we now see.

[Baroness Evans of Bowes Park]

I am grateful for the noble Lord’s support for the action taken. I reiterate to the House that we remain committed to the UN-led political process, but we have to be aware that it is the Syrian regime, with Russian and Iranian support, that is choosing to continue the conflict rather than come to the negotiating table. However, we will continue to try and pursue diplomatic resolution. As I mentioned in the Statement, next week we will attend the second Brussels Conference on Supporting the Future of Syria and the Region, which will focus on humanitarian support, bolstering the UN-led political process in Geneva and ensuring continued international support for refugees and host countries. We are committed to finding a diplomatic solution but I think we all acknowledge how difficult the circumstances are.

[The Lord Bishop of Coventry]

My Lords, it was very good to hear that assurance from the Leader of the House on the commitment to a long-term diplomatic solution. It does not appear very loud and clear in the Statement—it is only two lines—but great energy and skill has been given to the military action and the consensus that has been gathered around it is really impressive. It would really help many of us to hear more about whether the same energy, skill and confidence that there can be a negotiated solution will be given to that, with the same sort of targeted, intense effect that was given to the military action. I want to repeat a question I asked when this House last met—in the Syria debate on the humanitarian crisis—about whether the degradation in relations between Britain and Russia was going to cause the Syrian people to be the long-term victims, because of the failure in efforts to bring all parties together. I failed to get an answer to that: will the Leader of the House say something about the state of those relations today and whether the recent deterioration has made the prospect of that concerted effort for peace possible?

[Baroness Evans of Bowes Park]

I can certainly assure the right reverend Prelate that we are committed to continuing with diplomatic means and to looking for a long-term sustainable solution to the situation in Syria, because that is the only way that the Syrian people will have a bright future ahead of them. We will absolutely continue to do that. Of course, hitting these targets with the force that we have done will significantly degrade the Syrian regime’s ability to research, develop and deploy chemical weapons, which was obviously the main aim of this particular action. I also reassure him that we remain committed to the humanitarian support that we have provided. I have already set out the range of ways in which the UK has provided help—indeed, we have committed £2.46 billion since 2012, our largest ever response to a humanitarian crisis—and we will continue to do so.

[Lord Morris of Aberavon (Lab)]

My Lords, I broadly support the legal advice of the Attorney-General on armed intervention on humanitarian grounds. As Attorney-General, I developed this doctrine in Kosovo, which is an important parallel, again in circumstances in which it was hopeless to expect United Nations action. Legal advice cannot always be certain but will the Government accept that there is an arguable case—a respectable legal argument—which is enough to satisfy our Armed Forces that they have acted legally, on the same basis as they did in Kosovo, as mentioned by the Prime Minister?

[Baroness Evans of Bowes Park]

I thank the noble and learned Lord for his comments and his experience in this area. Indeed, humanitarian intervention is the legal justification we have put forward, which was indeed the justification we used for intervention in Kosovo. We have published the legal advice and we believe it is right. We are very grateful to our military for the work it did over those very difficult hours.

[Lord Campbell of Pittenweem (LD)]

My Lords, I find it difficult to see how anyone could reach the conclusion that this proportionate and targeted attack was anything other than lawful, although I understand it is the position of some in the other place to continue to doubt that. Having regard to the behaviour of the Assad regime, in particular following what one might call the warning of September 2013, the determination to persist in these unlawful attacks must inevitably provoke response.

However, I believe that the Government made a mistake, if I may put it as delicately as that, in not recalling Parliament—for the sake of 48 hours. If the question of urgency is to be raised in support of the Government’s attitude to that, it is worth pointing out how little urgency President Trump displayed over a period of several days. The United Kingdom was not at imminent risk. It would have been possible to debate these matters without reference to detailed and confidential intelligence and certainly without identifying targets. I do not expect the Leader of the House to agree with me, but I urge upon her that on any future occasion a more positive approach is taken to obtaining the discussion and, if necessary, the approval of both Houses of Parliament.

[Baroness Evans of Bowes Park]

I thank the noble Lord for his support in relation to the legal basis for the action. I am afraid he is right: I do not entirely agree with the second part of his comments. We believe we need to maintain the prerogative powers that allow the Executive to act in emergencies to alleviate human suffering, and we felt it was necessary to strike with speed so that we could allow our Armed Forces to act decisively, maintain the vital security of their operation, and protect the security and interests of the UK.

[Lord King of Bridgwater (Con)]

I strongly support the Statement made by my right honourable friend the Prime Minister. I pay particular tribute to the extraordinary professionalism of all three countries involved. They have conducted this very difficult exercise and appear to have achieved exactly the objectives set out, with the minimum risk of civilian casualties and with the safe return of those involved in the exercise.

This is a very important point. I have had occasion in Parliament to seek the deployment of our forces and we have consulted Parliament in advance, in certain circumstances. On other occasions, I had the responsibility for being involved in launching attacks of one sort or another, which had to be done before Parliament could be consulted. But at all times, we were accountable to Parliament. We returned to it afterwards and made a full account. That is exactly what is happening now; it is accountability in Parliament.

To those people who have said, “Why couldn’t we have a good debate in advance of this?”, I say: what actual details are to be given about what is proposed and how much greater a risk would that represent for those whom we then ask to undertake that exercise? I hope the House understands that Parliament is sovereign but the Government have a responsibility. They must not duck that responsibility by ducking behind a vote taken in Parliament in advance and saying, “It might have been a tough decision but Parliament would not let us do it”. That is what went wrong before and I commend entirely the courage of the Prime Minister in taking this decision now.

[Baroness Evans of Bowes Park]

My noble friend is right that this was a limited, targeted and effective strike with clear boundaries, expressly sought to avoid escalation, and with everything possible done to prevent civilian casualties. We had four RAF Tornadoes operating from the UK’s sovereign base in Akrotiri, using Storm missiles to strike a chemical weapons storage facility. The missiles were launched outside Syrian airspace and the Tornadoes were supported by four Typhoon aircraft, also operating from Cyprus.

[Lord Hannay of Chiswick (CB)]

My Lords, does the Minister recognise that I, along with the noble Lord, Lord Howard of Lympne, was one of the rather few people who supported the Government’s line in this House in 2013? It is therefore not altogether surprising that I should be quite clear in my own mind that the action taken on Friday was proportionate, justified and legitimate.

Perhaps the Minister could answer two questions which have not yet come up in the discussion. First, the situation now is, in legal and international terms, quite different from that of 2013. At that time, Syria had not yet signed the chemical weapons convention and was not bound by international law, other than the agreement of 1928, not to use them. The situation is now completely different; it has signed and ratified the convention in bad faith and is now using sarin, in some cases, and chlorine, which it is illegal to use as a weapon. That makes the situation far more clear-cut. Secondly, do the Government not recognise that there will not be a peaceful settlement in Syria until all parties to this conflict—heaven knows, there are far too many of them—recognise that there is no possibility of a sustainable peace won by a military victory? I would like to hear what the Government plan to do to ensure that that truth is brought home to some of those who are engaged in that unhappy country, so that we do not have to repeat this exercise.

[Baroness Evans of Bowes Park]

The noble Lord is absolutely right that despite Russia’s promise in 2013 to ensure that Syria would dismantle its chemical weapons programme, overseen by the OPCW, that has not happened. Indeed, only last month the OPCW was once again unable to verify Syria’s declaration of its chemical weapons programme, so work obviously has to continue in that area. He is absolutely right as well that we need to see a transition to a new, inclusive, non-sectarian Government who can protect the rights of all Syrians and unite the country. That is what we continue to work towards and we remain committed to the UN-led political process.

[Lord Winston (Lab)]

My Lords, it seems just a little naive to have listened to the noble Baroness’s reiteration of the Prime Minister’s speech. Does she not agree that while we can bomb what is visible the intelligent scientists in that country, some of them trained in universities in this country and who are very good chemists, will continue to exist and to have the moral attitude that they have? That is together with the fact that the more we bomb what is visible, the more we force things underground to places which are invisible. That is one reason why parliamentary debate is so important and I wonder whether she would like to respond to that question.

[Baroness Evans of Bowes Park]

By hitting the targets that we have hit, we have significantly downgraded the Syrian regime’s ability to research, develop and deploy chemical weapons. As we have seen from the use of the nerve agent on the streets of the UK, there has been a pattern of disregard for international norms. Part of what we absolutely have to do is to reinstate the global consensus that chemical weapons cannot and should not be used.

[Baroness Falkner of Margravine (LD)]

My Lords, this is a sober moment for this country because, although we are extremely relieved that the operation has been successful, we have not seen the threatened Russian retaliation yet, so the game is not over and it is time to reflect a little bit. I am concerned that the Statement repeated here said two things. One was that speed was essential, yet we took seven days. The definition of an emergency is a serious, unexpected and often dangerous situation demanding immediate action. The second thing we have been told today is that the House of Commons is not to be trusted. Despite assurances given by Mr Hague in 2011 and the assurances Mr Cameron gave after the Chilcot report in 2016, when he repeatedly told the other place that it would be extremely exceptional that the convention that had been agreed and established in both Houses would be disregarded, this week that convention has been disregarded. The Minister may know that I had a Private Member’s Bill to codify a war powers Act that would have allowed this action to go ahead had it been codified. Will the Government now go back and contemplate resolving this once and for all?

[Baroness Evans of Bowes Park]

I am afraid I disagree with the noble Baroness’s question. We made a decision and there was a Written Statement a couple of years ago. The position remains that we will not be codifying the convention in law or by resolution of the House in order to retain the ability of this and future Governments and the Armed Forces to protect the security and interests of the UK in circumstances that we cannot predict and to avoid such decisions becoming subject to legal action. That is what we have stated and that remains our position.

[Lord Dobbs (Con)]

My Lords, there is a great deal to be welcomed in the Prime Minister’s Statement, but does my noble friend recall that the last time we debated the bombing of Syria more than 70 Members spoke and only three clearly supported bombing Syria on that occasion? Of course, these circumstances are very different, but perhaps that reluctance came from the fact that there have been 20 years of failure of British foreign policy in the Middle East—one might even take it back to Suez. Interventions in the Middle East have been ill-planned and have generally missed the point. The term “Mission accomplished” should never be used in these circumstances. If this intervention is to be supported—and I do support it—and it is to continue to be supported and stand the test of time, does my noble friend accept that this should form part of a developing strategy for British foreign policy intervention in the Middle East and not simply be yet another example of gesture politics which over the past 20 years have stumbled from one confusion to the next?

[Baroness Evans of Bowes Park]

I do not accept that this is gesture politics and I hope that the explanation given in the Statement makes clear how thought through and intelligence based this action was. We hit a specific and limited number of targets in order to degrade the Syrian regime’s chemical weapons capability and to deter their use. That is what this action was about and that is what it has successfully achieved.

[Lord Kerr of Kinlochard (CB)]

My Lords, I strongly agree with what the noble and learned Lord, Lord Morris, said about legality and I think the Kosovo precedent is very apt. I support the Government on it. I also very much agree with what the noble Lord, Lord King, said about the circumstances in which one can and cannot consult Parliament in advance, and I support the Government on that. My unease is precisely over not knowing what the future strategy is. When the Statement speaks about diplomatic action, I would feel happier if it told us about when we are going to get an embassy in Damascus. I would feel happier about the idea of our involvement in international discussions on the future if we stopped saying that the man who is actually winning the civil war must go before there can be any future settlement. It seems to me that we have parroted that slogan for too long, and we have to face the fact that we have not done very well. As many people have been killed in that country, where we have not intervened, as have been killed in Iraq, where we have intervened. We need to be a little humble about our approach and think about a strategy for real diplomatic engagement.

[Baroness Evans of Bowes Park]

As I have made clear, this action was specifically focused on degrading the regime’s chemical weapons capability. Our position remains that we do not believe there can be a sustainable peace in Syria with Assad in power, and that we need a transition to a new and inclusive non-sectarian Government. We will continue to work diplomatically and, as I have mentioned a couple of times, we are attending a conference next week aimed at supporting the future of Syria and the region. We remain committed to the UN political process and will continue to use all the diplomatic means that we can to achieve a lasting peace in Syria.

[Lord Campbell-Savours (Lab)]

My Lords, in the Statement the Leader of the House said that the intelligence cannot be shared with Parliament. If that is the case, can the detailed intelligence be shared with the Intelligence and Security Committee? As I understand it, since the period when I was on the committee under the chairmanship of the noble Lord, Lord King, the services have been far more open with that committee. If that is the case, why do we not now use it as a vehicle for providing the information that Parliament requires?

[Baroness Evans of Bowes Park]

As the noble Baroness said, there have been briefings on Privy Council terms and various other things that happen today. I do not know specifically about that committee. I can go and check and am happy to write to the noble Lord. Where information can be shared, it will be. We have published the Attorney-General’s advice. We are trying to be transparent where we can, but obviously we have to respect the intelligence services as well.

[Lord Robathan (Con)]

My Lords, in August 2013 I was working in the Ministry of Defence, and I well remember the vote. Surely the lesson from August 2013 is not what the noble Lord, Lord Newby, said; surely it is that, as my noble friend Lord Howard said, inaction can be much worse than military action, however awful that may be. The convention that has sprung up that Parliament must be consulted before taking any military action is foolish. No Government can survive without the support of Parliament for military action, but to stop to allow parliamentarians, who have very little knowledge of the issue, to take a vote, as happened in August 2013, is the wrong lesson. I suggest that it is likely and reasonable to believe that many Syrians have died from chemical attacks because Parliament voted against taking action nearly five years ago.

[Baroness Evans of Bowes Park]

Bringing forward this Statement was the first opportunity through which to update Parliament. I am very pleased to say that this Thursday we have brought forward a debate within this House to take note of the national security situation. The list is open, so I look forward to hearing noble Lords’ contributions to that later on this week.

[Lord Alton of Liverpool (CB)]

My Lords, in the snake pit of competing interests and proxy wars in Syria, it will have been of little comfort, as the noble Lord said a few moments ago, to hear the words “Mission accomplished”, certainly for the relatives of some 400,000 people who have died and the 12 million displaced in Syria. I too would welcome more from the noble Baroness about what diplomatic action we are going to take to try to bring a conclusion to this terrible conflict.

I would also like to return to what she said about the veto that has been used in the Security Council and the accountability to which people will be held, whether they are responsible for genocidal crimes against humanity, in the case of Daesh, or for chemical weapons being used, in the case of the Syrian regime. What are we doing to create new mechanisms, such as a regional court that does not need a decision taken by the Security Council, which could be established by the United States, France, the UK and our allies so that those who have been responsible for these depredations will be brought to justice? Surely what marks us out from people like Assad or, for that matter, Daesh is our belief in the upholding of the rule of law.

[Baroness Evans of Bowes Park]

I entirely agree with the noble Lord’s sentiment. Russia has used its veto six times on the topic of chemical weapons use in Syria since 2017, including, as I mentioned, the recent veto of the draft resolution which would have established an independent investigation. Of course, we have used other mechanisms. Through the EU, we have brought sanctions against those involved in the use of chemical weapons in Syria, and we will continue to try to work through international bodies to ensure that those who commit these heinous crimes are brought to justice.

[Lord Cormack (Con)]

My Lords, I entirely agree with what my noble friend Lord King and the noble Lord, Lord Kerr, said about the role of Parliament. I express the hope and, indeed, make the request that in the debate on Thursday, when we will have a chance to discuss these things at some length, the Government come up with a coherent position. Although the Prime Minister said that this was not about regime change, we have from the word go reduced our potential influence by refusing to recognise what might be an ultimate outcome by derecognising the regime. The first thing we should do as we seek to bring parties together is to establish a diplomatic presence in Damascus. Can we please not have that ruled out yet again?

[Baroness Evans of Bowes Park]

I can certainly reiterate that this action was not about regime change or intervening in a civil war; it was about preventing further humanitarian catastrophe and restoring the international norm against the use of chemical weapons.

[Lord Hain (Lab)]

My Lords, I agree that a line must be drawn internationally against the use of chemical weapons, but does not this terrible war also represent a catastrophic failure of UK foreign policy, beginning with bombast from David Cameron in 2011-12, which I am afraid the noble Baroness has repeated today, that Assad must go, refusing to allow both him and Iran into the negotiations—in other words, excluding the main players? This has never been about a barbaric Assad, as he is, against his people, but a complex civil war of Sunni versus Shia, of Iran versus Saudi Arabia, of the US versus Russia, an inter-state and proxy conflict involving also Israel, Turkey and the Kurds. Britain will remain culpable as long as we adopt a partisan role, rather than an honest broker role to promote a negotiated settlement to what otherwise looks like a war without end.

[Baroness Evans of Bowes Park]

I certainly agree that this is an extremely complex situation and we need to pursue a diplomatic resolution, which is why we need a genuine and sustained ceasefire; we want an independent investigation into the recent attack; and we want safe passage for aid convoys and medical evacuation. The noble Lord is right that this is a complex area. We will continue to work with our international partners and allies to try to help to get a resolution in this area, because the people who are suffering, the Syrians, have been suffering for far too long.

[Baroness Sheehan (LD)]

My Lords, I should like to focus on that part of the Statement which refers to the alleviation of humanitarian suffering in Syria. Do the Government recognise the greater urgency which now exists and will they, with respect to both the Syrian vulnerable persons resettlement programme and the vulnerable children’s resettlement programme, bring forward the timescales that they are working to and increase the number they are prepared to help?

[Baroness Evans of Bowes Park]

We can certainly be proud of the humanitarian approach that we have taken to the area. Our commitment to resettle 20,000 of the most vulnerable refugees fleeing Syria remains. More than 10,000 people have been resettled through the vulnerable persons resettlement scheme so far, with about half of those children. Indeed, Eurostat figures show that, in 2016, the UK resettled more refugees from outside Europe than any other EU member state. Overall, more than a third of all resettlement to the EU was to the UK. That is a record of which we can be proud.

[Lord Green of Deddington (CB)]

I declare an interest as a former ambassador in Damascus and as a member of the board of the British Syrian Society.

I understand the reasons for the Government’s actions, I support them and I strongly endorse what the noble Lords, Lord Kerr and Lord Jay, said on the subject. I also endorse their concern at a lack of strategy in tackling what is an extremely complex situation, as the noble Lord, Lord Hain, so clearly explained.

The reality is that the Assad regime is winning the civil war and, given that it has the support of Russia and Iran, it is going to stay there. So we had better wake up to that. This will not be popular, but we need to move from the support that we are giving to his opposition to a neutral position where we can actually help, with such influence as we have, to get some kind of discussion going. Let us face it, it will be a discussion that will leave in place the present regime in Damascus, whether or not it is led by Bashar—which, by the way, is very much the wish of many of those in the government-controlled region, especially the minorities, and especially the Christians.

[Baroness Evans of Bowes Park]

All I can do is to reiterate that we remain committed to the UN-led political process. This particular action was about degrading the regime’s chemical weapons capability and deterring their use. We remain committed to broader diplomatic efforts to deal with the Syrian crisis in a broader sense, but this military action was specifically focused on chemical weapons.

[Lord Forsyth of Drumlean (Con)]

I commend the Prime Minister for her courage and resolution in authorising the action over the weekend, and also our Tornado pilots for the excellent job that they did, together with those charged with cybersecurity and other responsibilities. Does this event not point to the need for us to review particularly our naval capability and our capability to launch missiles from ships? Does it not point to the fact that, in an increasingly dangerous world, we need to consider the needs of defence expenditure in the immediate future?

[Baroness Evans of Bowes Park]

As I am sure my noble friend knows, the defence budget for 2018-19 is £37 billion. We are committed to meeting the NATO guideline to spend at least 2% of our GDP on defence every year of this Parliament, and this commitment should be seen as a floor not a ceiling. Of course, the purpose of our modernising defence programme is to make sure that our defence is configured to address the evolving threats that we face, which is why we have put in place a plan for more ships and planes alongside greater spending on special forces and investment in stealth aircraft, nuclear submarines and cyber technology.

[Lord Glasman (Lab)]

My Lords, I have just come back from Syria—I spent five days there last week—so I wanted to share what I saw over there. I was the guest of the Kurdish democratic forces of the Democratic Federation of Northern Syria. I wish to address the issue of the alleviation of humanitarian suffering but also commend the noble Lords, Lord Kerr, Lord Hain and Lord Cormack, for pointing out that there is no discernible strategic logic in what the Government are doing.

I saw something very inspirational in northern and eastern Syria. I saw the building of a genuine democracy, led by women. There were women and men co-chairs in a local democracy. I saw the participation of the Assyrian Christians as well as the local Sunni Muslims in building that democracy. I went to a cemetery where, for young men and young women, the average date of birth was 1995, in a war that went on four years ago in Kobane; they gave their lives to resist Daesh/ISIS. I also met injured soldiers who had fought with British forces all the way to Raqqa in order to defeat that iniquitous force. So I saw something extraordinarily inspiring, but I also saw something terrible that has not really been mentioned—the fact that Turkey has invaded Afrin, which is part of Syria. It has actually bombed for 56 consecutive days and has paid local al-Qaeda and al-Nusra forces, as well as defeated Daesh forces, to expel the Kurds and Christians from their homes in Afrin. They are now refugees from a land that they have lived in for more than 4,000 years.

I find it disquieting that I have not heard anything from the Government on this issue. Very specifically, will the Government maintain the British forces in Manbij to deter Turkey from expanding its war into the other areas that are controlled at the moment by the Democratic Federation of Northern Syria? What steps are they taking to provide humanitarian aid to the refugees, of which there are now many tens of thousands? In what way have they expressed their disquiet to the Turkish Government about a policy of ethnic cleansing?

[Baroness Evans of Bowes Park]

I reassure the noble Lord that we have called for the de-escalation and protection of these citizens and are urging our Turkish counterparts to do everything they can to minimise humanitarian suffering. We support ongoing discussions between Turkey and the US and believe that a negotiated agreement, taking into account the security concerns of both parties, is necessary to prevent further conflict. However, we remain concerned about suggestions of further operations and are calling for a period of stability to allow for the distribution of aid and humanitarian care for these citizens. We will continue to monitor the situation.

[Lord Hennessy of Nympsfield (CB)]

My Lords, I support the Government’s view that there needed to be a response to the appalling chemical attack on Douma. I am sure that considerable care was taken in assessing the Rubik’s cube of possibilities that might flow from military action undertaken with our allies. Can the noble Baroness the Leader of the House confirm that the decision-making process was what the Prime Minister, in the National Security Capability Review published on 28 March, called “Chilcot-compliant”? In other words, was the Government’s 10-point Chilcot checklist applied before the final decision was taken to launch the Tornados’ missiles?

[Baroness Evans of Bowes Park]

I can certainly assure the noble Lord that the lessons from the Chilcot report have been learned and we have paid attention to it.

[Lord Roberts of Llandudno (LD)]

My Lords, is the Minister basking in self-congratulation about the UK’s humanitarian aid to Syria? I remember the night when we voted on the Dubs amendment. We wanted 3,000 children from Syria to be accepted into the UK and those on the Government Benches walked into the Not-Content Lobby. Is that a measure of congratulation? There are still children in Calais and Dunkirk, yet every step we take builds a barrier—a wall, not a bridge—for those children.

[Baroness Evans of Bowes Park]

I am sorry that the noble Lord thinks we have been self-congratulatory. I do not believe that we have. This country has a strong record in this area and we should be proud of it. We have committed to resettle 480 unaccompanied children from Europe under the Dubs amendment and over 220 children have already been transferred to the UK. We provided refuge, or other forms of leave, to more than 9,000 children in 2016 and more than 42,000 children since 2010. That does not take away from the suffering of the many children who we have not been able to help. However, we do have a record in this area and we will continue to do what we can to help those most in need.

[Lord Elton (Con)]

My Lords, the noble Lord, Lord Winston, has drawn our attention to the impunity of the individuals who make it possible to invent weapons of this disgusting nature. The noble Lord, Lord Alton, has again drawn attention to the fact that it is almost impossible to pursue individuals. From the large number of atrocities that are committed round the world, the number who are caught and punished is very small indeed. Will my noble friend take on board the concern of those two Peers and myself that usable mechanisms should be developed so that individuals do not feel sheltered by corporate membership of corrupt regimes but are themselves in danger if they break United Nations conventions?

[Baroness Evans of Bowes Park]

I absolutely accept the concerns of my noble friend and other noble Lords. That is why we were pleased that today’s European Foreign Affairs Council has confirmed that it is willing to consider further restrictive measures on those involved in the development and use of chemical weapons in Syria. We have also brought sanctions, through the EU, against those involved in the use of chemical weapons in Syria. We will continue to work to bring those who commit these terrible crimes to justice.

[Lord West of Spithead (Lab)]

My Lords, the Minister will be aware that I have concerns about the intelligence that absolutely, certainly shows that Assad’s people did this. However, assuming that they did, I believe that the action was proportionate and well conducted. It was the right thing to do and right not to go before Parliament. However, I will raise the point that was raised by the noble Lord, Lord Forsyth. We dropped, effectively, eight bombs. Let us not now consider ourselves this great power that can have global reach. I am afraid that our military has been squeezed and squeezed. We had a Type 45 there, which should have had 60 cruise missiles on board. However, because of cuts through the years we do not have that. I am afraid that no matter what is said, the military has been starved of resources and we are in a position where, if we are needed for proper action—something larger than this—the nation will find that the military cannot do it. That is of great concern. Does the Minister believe that we are spending sufficient money on defence, bearing in mind the now clearly apparent risks in the world?

[Baroness Evans of Bowes Park]

On the noble Lord’s first point, we worked with our allies to establish what happened, and a significant amount of information, including intelligence, indicated that this was a chemical weapons attack. We have analysed a lot of intelligence and the World Health Organization has received reports that hundreds of patients arrived at Syrian hospitals with signs and symptoms consistent with exposure to toxic chemicals. So we believe that the evidence was there. On defence spending, the noble Lord will be aware that the UK is one of very few allies both to meet the NATO spending guidelines, spending 2% of GDP on defence, and to spend 20% of annual defence expenditure on major equipment and associated research and development. We recognise the evolving threats, we continue to invest in defence, and we once again thank our brave armed services for all the work they do for us.

Draft Health Service Safety Investigations Bill

Baroness Evans of Bowes Park Excerpts

Thursday 29th March 2018 Lords Chamber

Moved by

[Baroness Evans of Bowes Park]

That it is expedient that a joint committee of Lords and Commons be appointed to consider and report on the Draft Health Service Safety Investigations Bill presented to both Houses on 14 September 2017 (Cm 9497), and that the committee should report on the draft Bill by 24 July.

Motion agreed.

House of Lords: Allowance

Baroness Evans of Bowes Park Excerpts

Tuesday 27th March 2018 Lords Chamber

Moved by

[Baroness Evans of Bowes Park]

That—

1. (1) The Resolution of 20 July 2010 relating to the House of Lords allowance is amended as follows with effect from the beginning of 1 April 2018.

(2) For paragraph 1(3) substitute—

“(3) The amount of the allowance payable to a Member in respect of a day of attendance in the year beginning with 1 April 2018 should be—

(a) £305, or

(b) if paragraph (4) applies, £153.

(3A) In relation to the year beginning with 1 April 2019, and each subsequent year beginning with 1 April—

(a) any formula or mechanism included in the IPSA determination for the year as a result of section 4A(4) of the Parliamentary Standards Act 2009 (adjustment of MPs’ salaries) should be treated as applying for the purposes of adjusting for that year the amount of the allowance payable to a Member of this House, and

(b) accordingly, the amount of the allowance payable to a Member in respect of a day of attendance in that year should be—

(i) the amount obtained by applying the formula or mechanism to the amount payable by way of allowance (under paragraph (3) or this paragraph) in the previous year, or

(ii) where no formula or mechanism is included in the determination, the same amount payable by way of allowance (under paragraph (3) or this paragraph) in the previous year.”

(3) After paragraph 1(4) insert—

“(4A) In paragraph (3A)(a) “IPSA determination” means a determination under section 4(4) of the Parliamentary Standards Act 2009.

(4B) Any fraction of a pound in an amount obtained under paragraph (3A)(b)(i) should be rounded up to the nearest pound if the fraction is 50p or more, but otherwise should be disregarded.”

(4) In paragraph 2(1) for “Accordingly, the” substitute “The”.

2. In respect of a day of attendance before 1 April 2018, the Resolution of 20 July 2010 relating to the House of Lords allowance continues to have effect without the amendments made by this Resolution.

[The Lord Privy Seal (Baroness Evans of Bowes Park) (Con)]

My Lords, the Motion in my name proposes changes to the current and future rates of the daily allowance that would come into effect from 1 April. It follows the agreement of a report by the commission, which has also been put to the House for agreement. The current system was introduced in 2010 and was rightly considered to be a more direct, simpler and more transparent system, as well as being much easier to administer than the previous, discredited expenses system.

The daily allowance rates of £300 and £150 have been fixed since their introduction in 2010, and the House made a conscious decision at that time that this should remain the case until the end of the 2010 to 2015 Parliament. No decision was taken about how the scheme would operate after that Parliament, and rates have remained the same. I believe that, after almost eight years of the rate being frozen, the time is now right to introduce a modest uprating. While freezing the rate during that time was justified in line with public sector wage restraint and expenditure more generally, it is clear that, unless some means of providing a modest uprating mechanism is introduced, over time the amount of the daily allowance will reduce significantly in real terms.

The question then arises of what uprating mechanism should be used. I believe that the method that the Independent Parliamentary Standards Authority has used to determine annual increases in MPs’ pay for the last few years, in line with the independent ONS figures for average increases in public sector pay, is a sensible method which we should apply to the level of the daily allowance, beginning this year and for subsequent years. I am pleased to confirm that the commission agreed to my proposal that an initial uprating should be made to the daily allowance from 1 April 2018, in line with this year’s IPSA increase to MPs’ salaries of 1.8%, with subsequent annual upratings being pegged to subsequent annual IPSA determinations. Initially, this would result in a new rate of either £305 or £153. The result would be a modest and sustainable adjustment to the rate which I commend to the House. I also welcome the commission’s endorsement.

The overall cost of such an uprating in terms of the impact on the House of Lords estimate would be approximately £339,000 per annum. This can be accommodated within the current financial plan, which reflects overall savings year on year in the total running costs of this House, and means that we would continue to fulfil our important role at a rate that represents good value to the taxpayer. If IPSA were to change its method of determining future upratings, the commission would, of course, want to reconsider this approach. I beg to move.

[Baroness Smith of Basildon (Lab)]

My Lords, I thank the noble Baroness for her comments. This seems a sensible and appropriate approach to an uprating mechanism. As she pointed out, Members of your Lordships’ House have not seen any increase in allowances since 2010. To have an automatic annual increase on the same basis as Members of Parliament seems an entirely fair and appropriate way to proceed. She will understand that issues and anomalies remain that colleagues across the House will seek to address. They have not been addressed today, as she commented. However, the approach to the uprating mechanism is entirely appropriate. On a personal level, I thank the noble Baroness as I have raised this issue for a number of years, and without her personal commitment I do not believe that we would have seen this uprating at all.

--- Later in debate ---

[Lord Foulkes of Cumnock (Lab)]

My Lords, I back my noble friend Lord Blunkett, and I have total sympathy with the concerns that were raised by my noble friend Lord McConnell and, indeed, by the noble Lord, Lord Newby, although perhaps he did so in a gentler way. As Members on all sides will know, I have raised this issue on a number of occasions. I pay tribute to the Lord Speaker—I hope that this does not sound too gratuitous and crawling; it is absolutely genuine—who agreed to meet a deputation of all parties and the Cross Benches, which I had the privilege of taking to him to make the arguments, including the argument my noble friend Lord McConnell made. The Lord Speaker has been working with deft diplomacy behind the scenes, and the result is what we have achieved today. It is the first step towards getting these considerations dealt with properly, and I look forward to meeting the Lord Speaker afterwards, with a deputation, to raise other issues that need resolving, particularly those raised by my noble friend Lord McConnell. I hope that on that basis, my noble friend will not vote against this. As my noble friend Lord Blunkett said, it is a small step in the right direction.

[Baroness Evans of Bowes Park]

My Lords, I am grateful to all those who have briefly contributed. I thank in particular the noble Baroness, Lady Smith, and the noble Lord, Lord Newby, for the work they have done and for their support for this approach, which has allowed us to make progress, notwithstanding the comments made by the noble Lord, Lord McConnell. I understand that this is not what many Members of the House may have hoped for, but I hope they see that we have understood some of the comments noble Lords have made and that we have tried to take a step in the right direction. I agree with the noble Baroness, Lady Smith, that this is the right thing to do at this point. I accept that it is a modest increase, but I hope that noble Lords will feel able to support the Motion.

Motion agreed.

European Council

Baroness Evans of Bowes Park Excerpts

Monday 26th March 2018 Lords Chamber

[The Lord Privy Seal (Baroness Evans of Bowes Park) (Con)]

My Lords, with the leave of the House, I will now repeat a Statement made by my right honourable friend the Prime Minister in another place. The Statement is as follows:

“Mr Speaker, before I turn to the European Council, I am sure the whole House will join me in sending our deepest condolences to the families and friends of those killed in the appalling terrorist attack in Trèbes on Friday. The House will also want to pay tribute to the extraordinary actions of Lieutenant Colonel Arnaud Beltrame who, unarmed, took the place of a hostage and gave his own life to save the lives of others. Son sacrifice et son courage ne seront jamais oubliés.

Just last week we marked the first anniversary of the attack on Westminster and remembered the humbling bravery of PC Keith Palmer. It is through the actions of people like PC Palmer and Lieutenant Colonel Beltrame, that we confront the very worst of humanity with the very best. And through the actions of us all—together in this Parliament and in solidarity with our allies in France—we show that our democracy will never be silenced and our way of life will always prevail.

Turning to the Council, we discussed confronting Russia’s threat to the rules-based order. We agreed our response to America’s import tariffs on steel and aluminium, and we also discussed Turkey and the western Balkans, as well as economic issues including the appropriate means of taxing digital companies. All of these are issues on which the UK will continue to play a leading role in our future partnership with the EU after we have left. And this Council also took important steps towards building that future partnership.

First, on Russia, we are shortly to debate the threat that Russia poses to our national security—and I will set this out in detail then—but at this Council I shared the basis for our assessment that Russia was responsible for the reckless and brazen attempted murder of Sergei and Yulia Skripal in Salisbury and the exposure of many others to potential harm. All EU leaders agreed and, as a result, the Council conclusions were changed to state that the Council,

‘agrees with the United Kingdom Government’s assessment that it is highly likely that the Russian Federation is responsible and that there is no alternative plausible explanation’.

This was the first offensive use of a nerve agent on European soil since the foundation of the EU and NATO. It is a clear violation of the Chemical Weapons Convention and, as an unlawful use of force, a clear breach of the UN charter. It is part of a pattern of increasingly aggressive Russian behaviour and represents a new and dangerous phase in Russia’s hostile activity against Europe and our shared values and interests. I argued that there should be a reappraisal of how our collective efforts can best tackle the challenge that Russia poses following President Putin’s re-election.

In my discussions with President Macron and Chancellor Merkel as well as with other leaders, we agreed on the importance of sending a strong European message in response to Russia’s actions, not just out of solidarity with the UK but recognising the threat posed to the national security of all EU countries. The Council agreed immediate actions, including withdrawing the EU’s ambassador from Moscow. Today, 18 countries have announced their intention to expel more than 100 Russian intelligence officers from their countries, including 15 EU member states as well as the United States, Canada and Ukraine. This is the largest collective expulsion of Russian intelligence officers in history.

I have found great solidarity from our friends and partners in the EU, North America, NATO and beyond over the past three weeks as we have confronted the aftermath of the Salisbury incident. Together we have sent a message that we will not tolerate Russia’s continued attempts to flout international law and undermine our values. European nations will also act to strengthen their resilience to chemical, biological, radiological and nuclear-related risks as well as bolstering their capabilities to deal with hybrid threats. We also agreed that we would review progress in June, with Foreign Ministers being tasked to report back ahead of the next Council.

The challenge of Russia is one that will endure for years to come. As I have made clear before, we have no disagreement with the Russian people who have achieved so much through their country’s great history. Indeed, our thoughts are with them today in the aftermath of the awful shopping centre fire in Kemerovo in Siberia. But President Putin’s regime is carrying out acts of aggression against our shared values and interests within our continent and beyond, and as a sovereign European democracy, the United Kingdom will stand shoulder to shoulder with the EU and with NATO to face down these threats together.

Turning to the United States’ decision to impose import tariffs on steel and aluminium, the Council was clear that these measures cannot be justified on national security grounds and that sector-wide protection in the US is an inappropriate remedy for the real problems of overcapacity. Last week, my right honourable friend the Secretary of State for International Trade travelled to Washington to argue for an EU-wide exemption. We welcome the temporary exemption that has now been given to the European Union, but we must work hard to ensure that it becomes permanent. At the same time, we will continue to support preparations in the EU to defend our industry in a proportionate manner, in compliance with WTO rules.

Turning to Brexit, last week the Secretary of State for Exiting the European Union reached agreement with the EU Commission negotiating team on large parts of the draft withdrawal agreement. These include the reciprocal agreement on citizens’ rights, the financial settlement, aspects of issues relating to Northern Ireland such as the common travel area, and, crucially, the detailed terms of a time-limited implementation period running to the end of December 2020. I am today placing copies of the draft agreement in the Libraries of both Houses and I want to thank the Secretary of State and our negotiating team for all their work in getting us to this point.

The Council welcomed the agreement reached, including the time that the implementation period will provide for Governments, businesses and citizens on both sides to prepare for the new relationship we want to build. As I set out in my speech in Florence, it is not in our national interest to ask businesses to undertake two sets of changes, so it follows that during the implementation period, they should continue to trade on current terms. While I recognise that not everyone will welcome a continuation of the current trading terms for another 21 months, such an implementation period has been widely welcomed by British business because it is necessary if we are to minimise uncertainty and deliver a smooth and successful Brexit. For all of us, the most important issue must be focusing on negotiating the right future relationship that will endure for years to come. We are determined to use the implementation period to prepare properly for that future relationship, which is why it is essential that we have clarity about the terms of that relationship when we ask the House to agree the implementation period and the rest of the withdrawal agreement in the autumn.

There are of course some key questions that remain to be resolved on the withdrawal agreement, including the governance of the agreement and how our commitments to avoid a hard border between Ireland and Northern Ireland should be turned into legal text. As I have made clear, we remain committed to the agreement we reached in December in its entirety. This includes a commitment to agree operational legal text for the ‘backstop option’ set out in the joint report, although it remains my firm belief that we can and will find the best solutions for Northern Ireland as part of the overall future relationship between the UK and the EU. I have explained that the specific European Commission proposals for that backstop were unacceptable because they were not in line with the Belfast agreement and threatened the break-up of the UK’s internal market. As such, they were not a fair reflection of the joint report. But there are many issues on which we can agree with the Commission and we are committed to working intensively to resolve those which remain outstanding. I welcome that today we are beginning a dedicated set of talks with the European Commission and, where appropriate, the Irish Government, so that we can work together to agree the best way to fulfil the commitments we have made.

We have also been working closely with the Government of Gibraltar to ensure that Gibraltar is covered by our EU negotiations on withdrawal, the implementation period and the future relationship. I am pleased that the draft agreement published jointly last week correctly applies to Gibraltar, but we will continue to engage closely with the Government of Gibraltar and our European partners to resolve the particular challenges that our EU withdrawal poses for Gibraltar and for Spain.

Following my speeches in Munich and at Mansion House setting out the future security and economic partnerships we want to develop, the Council also agreed guidelines for the next stage of the negotiations on this future relationship which must rightly now be our focus. While there are of course some clear differences between our initial positions, the guidelines are a useful starting point for the negotiations that will now get under way. I welcome the Council restating the EU’s determination to,

‘have as close as possible a partnership with the UK’,

and its desire for a ‘balanced, ambitious and wide-ranging’ free trade agreement, for I believe that there is now an opportunity to create a new dynamic in these negotiations.

The agreements our negotiators have reached on the withdrawal agreement and the implementation period are proof that with political will, a spirit of co-operation and a spirit of opportunity for the future, we can find answers to difficult issues together—and we must continue to do so. Whether people voted leave or remain, many are frankly tired of the old arguments and the attempts to refight the referendum over the past year. With a year to go, people are coming back together and looking forward. They want us to get on with it and that is what we are going to do. I commend this Statement to the House”.

My Lords, that concludes the Statement.

--- Later in debate ---

[Baroness Evans of Bowes Park]

My Lords, I am grateful to the noble Baroness and the noble Lord for their comments. I agree with them about the solidarity shown by our EU allies, for which we are extremely grateful.

At the Council meeting, the PM shared with our EU colleagues the basis of our assessment that Russia was responsible for the attack in Salisbury. It was that, along with our shared concerns with our EU partners, and of course more internationally with the United States, Canada and Ukraine, that led to today’s action. The European Council President, Donald Tusk, said today:

“As a direct follow up to last week’s European Council decision to react to Russia within a common framework … 14 Member states have decided to expel Russian diplomats. Additional measures, including further expulsions … are not to be excluded in the coming days and weeks”.


As the Statement mentioned, we will return to this issue in the June Council meeting, as we see how things develop.

On steel, I can confirm to the noble Baroness that we will of course keep the House updated on discussions with the United States. We remain concerned about the impact of tariffs on global trade and will continue to work with the EU on a multilateral solution to the global problem of overcapacity. We have also played a leading role in other fora such as the G20 Global Forum last November in securing agreement on tackling unfair trading practices which harm steel producers. We are using all our international negotiations and diplomacy to make sure that we advance our arguments.

On the negotiations, there is flexibility within our approach. As the Statement said, we have reached agreement with the Commission negotiating team on large parts of the withdrawal agreement and aim to reach a final agreement on a legal text by October alongside the framework for our future relationship.

On Northern Ireland, which both the noble Lord and the noble Baroness mentioned, the Statement was clear: we have recognised that some key questions are outstanding, of which of course Northern Ireland is one. We are clear that we are committed to the joint report in its entirety, including reaffirming the Government’s commitment to the Good Friday agreement, which needs to be protected in all its parts. We are committed to agreeing in the withdrawal agreement operational legal text for the so-called “backstop option” set out in the joint report. It remains our belief that we can and will find the best solutions for Northern Ireland as part of an overall future relationship. We are beginning a dedicated set of discussions with the European Commission and the Irish Government. We have been resolute in our commitments on Northern Ireland: no physical infrastructure at the border; putting the protection of the Belfast agreement at the heart of the negotiations, and protecting Northern Ireland’s place in the UK internal market. We will continue to be so.

On the noble Baroness’s question about Article 32, I am afraid I am not familiar with the detail, so I will have to investigate further and write to her.

We will bring forward primary legislation to implement the final agreement with the EU, which will be the withdrawal agreement implementation Bill, so there will be ample opportunity for both Houses to discuss and consider it. Once we leave, the withdrawal agreement will be followed by one or more agreements covering different aspects of the future relationship, which may require further legislation.

Both sides have been clear that justice and home affairs co-operation is in the interest of both the EU and ourselves. We have so far focused on withdrawal issues and now move to the next stage of negotiations, where we anticipate a strong partnership on these issues. They are important to all of us, as recent events have shown.

[Lord Lamont of Lerwick (Con)]

My Lords, I welcome the progress on Brexit made at these negotiations. Yet again, when people said that no progress was possible, some significant progress has been made. On the basis, as has been said, that nothing is agreed until everything is agreed, if there is no trade agreement in the autumn, does that mean that no money will be paid to fill the gap in the EU budget, or at least no money will be paid until there is an agreement?

[Baroness Evans of Bowes Park]

As my noble friend said, we have been very clear that nothing is agreed until everything is agreed, but we are confident on the basis of developments so far that we will reach a positive relationship with the EU. On the withdrawal and implementation Bill, we will look at publishing the future framework for our relationship with the EU. Our offer in relation to the financial settlement was made in the spirit of our future partnership and depends on a broader agreement being reached, which we are confident it will.

[Lord Liddle (Lab)]

My Lords, I congratulate the Prime Minister on her success in mobilising our EU partners at the Brussels summit on the Russia question. It was notable. The question is how we replicate it in a year’s time.

Following up the question asked by the noble Lord, Lord Lamont, will the Leader confirm that what we will be faced with in the autumn is a framework of principles for the future and not a precise, clear trade agreement, which will take several years to negotiate after we have left the European Union—in other words, that we will be signing up to the withdrawal and implementation agreement without any real knowledge of what our future economic relationship with the European Union will be and that there is no question of being able to link the money that we are paid with that future relationship?

[Baroness Evans of Bowes Park]

The noble Lord is right that when we discuss the primary legislation on the withdrawal agreement and the implementation period, we will be doing so alongside a framework for the future partnership. We have been very clear, however, that we are committed to an ambitious future economic partnership, which we are confident we will achieve. We also believe we will develop a comprehensive security partnership. That is what we are doing now, moving into this phase of the negotiations.

[Lord Marlesford (Con)]

My Lords, do the Government recognise that, on Russia, we probably face the same challenge this March as we did 72 years ago? In February 1946, the great Foreign Secretary, Ernest Bevin, denounced the Soviet system and all its works and a few days later George Kennan sent the famous “long telegram” to America to say that the choice was either to contain the Soviet Union or to confront it. The decision two years later, setting up NATO, was of course to contain. Do the Government favour containing or confronting Mr Putin?

[Baroness Evans of Bowes Park]

I think the actions today of our European partners and friends, in addition to those that we have taken, show that we will stand firm in the face of what has happened and Russia’s reckless behaviour. Unfortunately, the Salisbury incident is part of a pattern of increasingly aggressive Russian behaviour and represents a new and dangerous phase in its activity. That is why measures have been taken now and why the Council has agreed further measures and to come back to this at the next meeting in June, with Foreign Ministers being tasked to report back ahead of the next Council. Once again, we are very grateful for the support, not just of our European partners but the United States, Canada and Ukraine, who have also taken action today.

[Lord Campbell of Pittenweem (LD)]

My Lords, is not the hard fact that the key question for the Government is which do they regard as more important: the Belfast agreement or being out of the customs union?

[Baroness Evans of Bowes Park]

No, I do not think that is the question. As I have said, we are committed to the Good Friday agreement and to ensuring no hard border between Ireland and Northern Ireland.

[Lord Dykes (CB)]

My Lords, I thank the Leader of the House for repeating the Statement today. A month ago, there was a previous Statement with the same amount of self-deception in it, which the Prime Minister issued in the Commons three days after her Mansion House speech. I agree with one of the sentences at the top of the conclusions page:

“We cannot escape the complexity of the task ahead”.


Later, in conclusion, the Prime Minister said that,

“foremost in my mind is the pledge I made on my first day as Prime Minister: to act not in the interests of the privileged few, but in the interests of all our people, and to make Britain a country that works for everyone”.—[Official Report, Commons, 5/3/18; col. 28.]

How on earth is that possible if we leave the European Union?

[Baroness Evans of Bowes Park]

It is perfectly possible and we have a very bright future ahead of us. That is why we want to work with the EU to have as close a partnership as possible and to have a balanced and wide-ranging trade agreement; that is why we are going out into the world to develop new trade partnerships. We have already opened 14 informal trade dialogues with 21 countries, from the United States to Australia and the UAE, and we have a presence in 108 countries. We are looking forward to the opportunities now and we will be working with our friends and partners in the EU to make sure we continue to have a strong and positive relationship with them.

[Lord Bridges of Headley (Con)]

My Lords, I very much welcome the progress that has been made and I congratulate the Prime Minister and her negotiating team on what has been done. I am especially pleased by the passage in the Statement about the relationship we are seeking, which states that,

“it is essential that we have clarity about the terms of that relationship when we ask the House to agree the Implementation Period and the rest of the Withdrawal Agreement in the autumn”.

Therefore will my noble friend clarify and confirm that the Prime Minister will not accept any withdrawal agreement that does not set out clearly how the processes at the Irish border will operate, and therefore will be ruling out in that withdrawal agreement the backstop option, but will be putting in an option that the Prime Minister finds satisfactory?

[Baroness Evans of Bowes Park]

We have been very clear that we believe we will find a satisfactory position on the Irish border. We are clear about that and we believe it is bound up with the discussions around our future relationship. Noble Lords will have ample time and opportunity to discuss that in more detail when the Bill comes to the House.

[Lord Adonis (Lab)]

Will the noble Baroness say why the December agreement between Britain and the European Union referred to full regulatory alignment between the Republic of Ireland and Northern Ireland but not full regulatory alignment between the Republic of Ireland and the United Kingdom?

[Baroness Evans of Bowes Park]

As I have said, we remain committed to what was in the agreement. We will be working with the EU to move forward and to make sure that we get the proper and correct situation on the Irish and Northern Irish border that we are all seeking.

[Baroness Smith of Newnham (LD)]

My Lords, the Prime Minister suggested that many are, frankly, tired of the old arguments. I confess that my heart sank slightly when the Leader suggested that there would be the opportunity to discuss all these issues all over again in the withdrawal agreement and implementation Bill. Clearly we have many opportunities to keep rehearsing the same issues, but surely the point is to move forward. One point that the Prime Minister made, which seemed so important, was that she had found great solidarity from our friends and partners in the European Union—and, admittedly, from our NATO allies—over the situation with Russia. What are Her Majesty’s Government doing to work through how we retain close relations with the EU 27 assuming we leave on 29 March, or whenever, in 2019? It is by being in the room, discussing and getting to know our partners, that we have been able to get the sort of response that we achieved last week.

[Baroness Evans of Bowes Park]

These are exactly the issues we will be discussing in the next phase of the negotiations now that we have the EU guidelines and have set out our position.

[Lord Forsyth of Drumlean (Con)]

My Lords, further to my noble friend Lord Lamont’s question, I am just not clear on the position. Will my noble friend indicate—are our future payments to the EU dependent on achieving a satisfactory trade deal or not?

[Baroness Evans of Bowes Park]

As I have said, this offer is made in the spirit of our future partnership and depends on a broader agreement being reached.

[Lord Lea of Crondall (Lab)]

My Lords, will the Leader confirm that our aspiration is to continue to have the sort of relationship we have with the European Council on all these interesting questions, such as on Russia and all the other things in the Statement? Does not continuing to have such a relationship depend on being part of a club that has rules? How does the Leader visualise squaring that circle in our future relationship?

[Baroness Evans of Bowes Park]

I think we will continue to have strong relationships because it is in all our interests. We work with our EU partners, with NATO and through the UN: we are involved in a whole array of international organisations. Other issues were discussed at the Council that have not yet been raised—our approach to Turkey and Afrin and issues around Cyprus, for example. We work with all our international partners in a whole range of areas. We bring a lot to the party, so do they, and we want to continue to do that. I see no reason why we cannot.

[Lord Howell of Guildford (Con)]

My Lords, may I just explain something to your Lordships about the Northern Ireland border and the customs union? I do not think it is very widely understood. Of course, I spent considerable time there. There is a border and there are enormous differences between the jurisdictions of the Republic and Northern Ireland. They extend to education, health services, minimum wages, aspects of labour laws, excise duties and personal taxation. All these things are different so there has to be a controlled border. Furthermore, at the moment only 4% of the goods coming into the EU through Britain are checked by the customs authorities—HMRC. In the case of the Republic, only 1% of goods coming from outside the EU are checked by the Republic. What I am saying is that this is a tiny problem. It is mostly concerned with animals and animal welfare; it can all be done by pre-checking and online arrangements. The idea that it should be built up into a major issue of challenges about the whole customs union is completely disassociated from the facts of the situation on the ground.

[Baroness Evans of Bowes Park]

I agree with my noble friend that there are obviously issues that we overcome now without a hard border and we want to continue to do that. We believe we can achieve a deep trading relationship between the EU and the UK that means specific measures in relation to Northern Ireland are not necessary. We have also been very clear that we will ensure that the specific circumstances of Northern Ireland are recognised. That is what we will be working on intensively over the next few weeks.

[Lord Wallace of Saltaire (LD)]

My Lords, I am sure we all wish to congratulate the Prime Minister on the active engagement she continues to have as a member of the European Council—but of course there will be only three more, or at most four more, European Councils in which she will be able to be an active participant before we leave. It is interesting to see that there is a commitment to,

“review progress in June, with Foreign Ministers being tasked to report back ahead of the next Council”—

we have great confidence that Boris Johnson will succeed in doing that—and that the Secretary of State for International Trade will,

“continue to support preparations in the EU to defend our industry”.

If, after we leave, we plan to have some sort of institutional arrangement with the European Union in which we will participate, when will the Government start to explain to their public—including that section of the deeply divided British public which reads the Daily Mail or Daily Telegraph every day and does not believe that we ought to have any continued structural arrangement—what sort of arrangement they propose we should have? Over the past few months the Government have not explained to their public, except on the rare occasion of the Prime Minister’s Mansion House speech, what sort of relationship they begin to envisage. We read about it in Commission documents but do not hear about it from our own Government. Is it not time that the Government began to spell out to us what sort of future relationship they see we might have?

[Baroness Evans of Bowes Park]

The European Council has just agreed its guidelines for negotiations. We have been very clear through the Prime Minister’s speeches—Munich on security and Mansion House on economic partnerships, as the noble Lord mentioned—about the kind of relationship we want. We will now be putting flesh on those bones. The noble Lord made the point himself that the relationship between the UK and the EU will remain strong because we do want to work together in these international fora and we do face common threats and challenges. We can perfectly reasonably develop relationships in order to do that. We have shown that we are stronger together and that is what we will continue to be.

[Viscount Waverley (CB)]

Did solidarity extend to the Prime Minister dissuading President Macron from attending the St Petersburg economic forum in May—or does the Leader anticipate that he will press on with his plans? Separately, is the Leader aware of the considerable disquiet that exists on the island of Anguilla regarding the reliance of its economy on the market of the EU countries of Dutch and French Saint Martin? Is she able to send a clear message to the people of Anguilla to allay their concerns following Brexit?

[Baroness Evans of Bowes Park]

I certainly can reassure the people of Anguilla. We are intending to negotiate on behalf of the entire UK family and our dependencies, and we will certainly do that. France has stood shoulder to shoulder with us. There was the statement from President Macron, Chancellor Merkel and President Trump, and today France has ordered four Russian diplomats to leave.

[Lord Cavendish of Furness (Con)]

My Lords, I am much encouraged by the progress on the Brexit negotiations and congratulate the Government. Does my noble friend agree that being prepared for no deal provides our best chance of achieving a good deal?

[Baroness Evans of Bowes Park]

On the basis of what we have achieved so far, we are confident that we will achieve a deal—but, as any responsible Government would, we have to prepare for all scenarios. But on the basis of what we have achieved so far, we are confident we will come to a good deal.

[Lord Kilclooney (CB)]

My Lords, when the United Kingdom leaves the European Union, will Northern Ireland still be part of the United Kingdom?

[Baroness Evans of Bowes Park]

We have been very clear that it will. We want to make sure that there is no hard border between Northern Ireland and Ireland and we will work to achieve that.

[Lord Hope of Craighead (CB)]

My Lords, it seems to be agreed that the European Court of Justice will have a continuing role during the implementation period. Has any thought been given to whether the United Kingdom should continue to have representation on that court after exit day?

[Baroness Evans of Bowes Park]

The noble and learned Lord is absolutely right that during the implementation period there will continue to be a role for the ECJ. We will be leaving the jurisdiction once we leave the EU, although of course EU law and the decisions of the ECJ will continue to affect us; for instance, it determines whether agreements the EU has struck are legal under the EU’s own law. But we will be leaving the jurisdiction.

[Lord Whitty (Lab)]

My Lords, does the Leader recognise that in one respect and for key sectors of British industry, the Statement on Brexit negotiations is seriously misleading? It talks about the details of the so-called implementation period being settled when they are not fully settled, and about continuing to trade on current terms. But key sectors of industry will be excluded from the agencies of the EU that deal with the way in which they trade. That includes sectors that the Prime Minister herself has recognised, such as aviation, medicines and chemicals, where the EU’s position is that we will be excluded from March next year. Will the Leader please ask her colleagues to issue an additional, revised statement explaining to those sectors and others, such as food and the nuclear industry, how the implementation period will actually mean that they will continue to trade on current terms—because in my view it will not?

[Baroness Evans of Bowes Park]

The implementation period will be based on the existing structure of EU rules and regulations. But, as was made clear in the previous Statement I repeated, we are working in the negotiations with the EU to look at the agencies that we would like still to be involved in, and those will be part of the discussions we have going forward.

[Lord Thomas of Gresford (LD)]

Perhaps I might ask the Leader to answer the question that was put to her by the noble and learned Lord, Lord Hope. If we remain subject to the jurisdiction of the ECJ during the transition or implementation period, will we retain a British judge on the European Court of Justice, as we have hitherto had?

[Baroness Evans of Bowes Park]

As I have said, obviously we will continue to be under the jurisdiction of the ECJ during the implementation period. After that, we leave the ECJ.

[Lord Thomas of Gresford]

I am sorry, that does not answer my question. Will we retain a British judge on the European Court of Justice, as we have now, if we are still subject to its jurisdiction?

[Baroness Evans of Bowes Park]

That will be part of the negotiations.

Tributes: Lord Richard

Baroness Evans of Bowes Park Excerpts

Tuesday 20th March 2018 Lords Chamber

[The Lord Privy Seal (Baroness Evans of Bowes Park) (Con)]

My Lords, it is my sad duty to lead the tributes to one of my predecessors as Leader of the House, Lord Richard, who died on Sunday.

Lord Richard was a significant figure in the political life of this country, holding a variety of high-profile public roles over several decades. He always argued with a fearsome combination of intellect and passion, directed by strong political convictions. He joined this House in 1990, becoming Leader of the Opposition two years later during a time of great change for the Labour Party before being appointed as Leader of the House after the 1997 general election. As Leader, he played a central role in the early cross-party discussions about the future of this House, which were to culminate in the House of Lords Act 1999. By then he had already had a long and distinguished record of service, both as an MP and at the highest levels of international relations, and after his time as Leader of the House he continued to make important contributions to our work and through our Select Committees.

In 1974, Harold Wilson appointed Lord Richard as the UK Permanent Representative to the UN, where he served for over five years. During this time he played a key role in bringing together the different sides in the Middle East and Rhodesia conflicts. Following the change of Government in 1979, Lord Richard was appointed as one of the UK’s European commissioners, replacing Lord Jenkins of Hillhead. He spent four years in Brussels, where he oversaw employment, social policy, education and training. My noble friend Lady Chalker tells me that Lord Richard’s unfailing willingness to listen and seek the advice of others helped him to resolve a wide variety of challenges and ultimately achieve better outcomes during his time in these international posts.

His service to this House since his period as Leader saw him making a number of invaluable contributions to the European debate as well as on major constitutional issues, including reform of this House. He was appointed as Chairman of Committees on the Constitutional Reform Bill, the Barnett formula and most recently of the Joint Committee on the draft House of Lords Reform Bill. In each of these roles he demonstrated all the negotiating skills gleaned from his international postings in achieving cross-party consensus on serious and difficult issues. As well as chairing committees, he also served until very recently on a number of EU sub-committees.

Together with the death of my noble friend Lord Crickhowell, I am sorry that the House has had to bid farewell to two distinguished Welsh political figures in the same week. Lord Richard was a man who never abandoned his Carmarthenshire roots; he was invited to chair a commission on the future powers of the National Assembly for Wales, which reported in 2004. While its recommendations were not initially accepted by the Government at the time, the important body of work eventually resulted in the devolution of further powers to Cardiff.

At this sad time, all sides of your Lordships’ House will want to send their good wishes to his wife Janet, to whom he was a devoted husband, and to his children. We share in what must be their sense of profound loss. But it is almost impossible not to be struck at the breadth of what he achieved at high level in so many different fields He put his experience and wisdom willingly at the disposal of this House throughout his membership, and he will be greatly missed.

[Baroness Smith of Basildon (Lab)]

My Lords, I thank the noble Baroness for her comments; we are grateful for the tributes she has paid. As well as Lord Crickhowell, she will understand that we are also mourning our colleague Brenda Dean who died very recently.

In 1997 Lord Richard—Ivor—led the Labour Party in the Lords into government for the first time in 18 years. He had taken over the leadership in 1992, just after we had been defeated in an election that we went into with such high hopes. Noble Lords will understand that it was not an easy time: despite the convincing nature of Labour’s victory in 1997 the future had looked far from certain five years earlier.

Ivor was a man of great intellect and experience—a “wise owl” if ever there was one. He had strong political convictions and as someone said to me earlier, he was a true character. His time in Parliament spanned almost 54 years. He was first elected as a Member of Parliament in 1964 for Barons Court in west London and served for 10 years in the other place, returning to Westminster on the red Benches in 1990. Between his times at Westminster he served in not one but two high-profile international postings; first, as Britain’s ambassador to the United Nations and then as a European commissioner. In the former role, Ivor was at the centre of two of the key issues of the day: the Middle East conflict that still troubles us and the growing movement for independence in what is now Zimbabwe. An early advocate of Britain’s membership of the then Common Market, Ivor found himself briefly dislodged from the Labour Front Bench for defying the Whip on the historic vote to join in 1971: some things change.

We will miss Ivor’s wisdom, expertise and statesmanship as the seemingly never-ending Brexit process moves forward over the coming months and years. In 1997, his tenure as a Cabinet Minister and Leader of your Lordships’ House was inevitably dominated by the new Government’s heavy legislative programme, particularly the proposals for reform of this House. Lords reform remained a passion and an issue close to his heart, so he was the obvious choice to chair the Joint Committee considering the draft Bill at the last major attempt to reform your Lordships’ House, under the coalition Government.

A proud Welshman, he also played a key role in the development of the powers of the National Assembly for Wales, paving the way for the 2011 referendum on the Assembly’s lawmaking powers. Ivor served on more committees of this House than we have time to mention here, most recently on the Select Committee that this House set up to consider some of the most contentious aspects of the Trade Union Bill. I well recall the Monday morning when Ivor arrived at my office in your Lordships’ House, having just been appointed the previous week, with a huge pile of papers under his arm, all marked up, all flagged: he had spent the whole weekend examining in detail the issues before that committee. His contribution to Parliament and to the Lords over many years was huge. He was the last former MP to become Leader of your Lordships’ House—so far.

So today we pay tribute to Ivor, our friend and colleague whom we shall miss enormously. Our thoughts are with his family, particularly his wife, Janet. I hope that our thoughts as we remember him today will be of some comfort to them.

Salisbury Incident

Baroness Evans of Bowes Park Excerpts

Wednesday 14th March 2018 Lords Chamber

[The Lord Privy Seal (Baroness Evans of Bowes Park) (Con)]

My Lords, with the leave of the House I shall repeat a Statement made by my right honourable friend the Prime Minister in another place. The Statement is as follows:

“With permission, Mr Speaker, I would like to make a Statement on the response of the Russian Government to the incident in Salisbury.

First, on behalf of the whole House, let me pay tribute once again to the bravery and professionalism of all the emergency services, doctors, nurses and investigation teams who have led the response to this appalling incident and to the fortitude of the people of Salisbury. Let me reassure them that, as Public Health England has made clear, the ongoing risk to public health is low. The Government will continue to do everything possible to support this historic city to recover fully.

On Monday, I set out that Mr Skripal and his daughter were poisoned with a Novichok, a military-grade nerve agent developed by Russia. Based on this capability, combined with Russia’s record of conducting state-sponsored assassinations, including against former intelligence officers whom it regards as legitimate targets, the Government concluded that it was highly likely that Russia was responsible for this reckless and despicable act. There are only two plausible explanations: either this was a direct act by the Russian state against our country or, conceivably, the Russian Government could have lost control of a military-grade nerve agent and allowed it to get into the hands of others.

It was right to offer Russia the opportunity to provide an explanation, but its response has demonstrated complete disdain for the gravity of these events. The Russian Government have provided no credible explanation that could suggest that they lost control of their nerve agent, no explanation as to how this agent came to be used in the United Kingdom and no explanation as to why Russia has an undeclared chemical weapons programme in contravention of international law. Instead, they have treated the use of a military-grade nerve agent in Europe with sarcasm, contempt and defiance. There is no alternative conclusion other than that the Russian state was culpable for the attempted murder of Mr Skripal and his daughter and for threatening the lives of other British citizens in Salisbury, including Detective Sergeant Nick Bailey.

This represents an unlawful use of force by the Russian state against the United Kingdom. As I set out on Monday, it has taken place against the backdrop of a well-established pattern of Russian state aggression across Europe and beyond. It must therefore be met with a full and robust response beyond the actions that we have already taken since the murder of Mr Litvinenko and to counter this pattern of Russian aggression elsewhere. As the discussion in this House on Monday made clear, it is essential that we now come together with our allies to defend our security, to stand up for our values and to send a clear message to those who would seek to undermine them. This morning, I chaired a further meeting of the National Security Council, where we agreed immediate actions to dismantle the Russian espionage network in the UK, urgent work to develop new powers to tackle all forms of hostile state activity and to ensure that those seeking to carry out such activity cannot enter the UK, and additional steps to suspend all planned high-level contacts between the United Kingdom and the Russian Federation.

Let me start with the immediate actions. The House will recall that following the murder of Mr Litvinenko the UK expelled four diplomats. Under the Vienna convention, the United Kingdom will now expel 23 Russian diplomats who have been identified as undeclared intelligence officers. They have just one week to leave. This will be the single biggest expulsion for more than 30 years and it reflects the fact that this is not the first time that the Russian state has acted against our country. Through these expulsions, we will fundamentally degrade Russian intelligence capability in the UK for years to come and, if Russia seeks to rebuild it, we will prevent it from doing so.

Secondly, we will urgently develop proposals for new legislative powers to harden our defences against all forms of hostile state activity. This will include the addition of a targeted power to detain those suspected of hostile state activity at the UK border. This power is currently permitted only in relation to those suspected of terrorism. I have asked the Home Secretary to consider whether there is a need for new counterespionage powers to clamp down on the full spectrum of hostile activities of foreign agents in our country. As I set out on Monday, we will also table a government amendment to the sanctions Bill to strengthen our powers to impose sanctions in response to the violation of human rights. In doing so, we will play our part in an international effort to punish those responsible for the sorts of abuses suffered by Sergei Magnitsky. I hope that, as with all the measures that I am setting out today, this will command cross-party support.

We will also make full use of existing powers to enhance our efforts to monitor and track the intentions of those travelling to the UK who could be engaged in activity that threatens the security of the UK and our allies. We will increase checks on private flights, customs and freight; we will freeze Russian state assets, wherever we have the evidence that they may be used to threaten the life or property of UK nationals or residents; and, led by the National Crime Agency, we will continue to bring the capabilities of UK law enforcement to bear against serious criminals and corrupt elites. There is no place for these people or their money in our country.

Let me be clear. While our response must be robust, it must also remain true to our values as a liberal democracy that believes in the rule of law. Many Russians have made this country their home, abide by our laws and make an important contribution to our country, which we must continue to welcome. But to those who seek to do us harm, my message is simple: you are not welcome here.

Let me turn to our bilateral relationship. As I said on Monday, we have had a simple approach to Russia: engage but beware. I continue to believe that it is not in our national interest to break off all dialogue between the United Kingdom and the Russian Federation. But in the aftermath of this appalling act against our country, this relationship cannot be the same. So we will suspend all planned high-level bilateral contacts between the United Kingdom and the Russian Federation. This includes revoking the invitation to Foreign Minister Lavrov to pay a reciprocal visit to the UK and confirming that there will be no attendance by Ministers, or members of the Royal Family, at this summer’s World Cup in Russia. Finally, we will deploy a range of tools from across the full breadth of our national security apparatus to counter the threat of hostile state activity. While I have set out some measures today, Members on all sides will understand that there are some that cannot be shared publicly for reasons of national security. Of course, there are other measures that we stand ready to deploy at any time, should we face further Russian provocation.

None of the actions that we take is intended to damage legitimate activity or prevent contacts between our populations. We have no disagreement with the people of Russia, who have been responsible for so many great achievements throughout their history. Many of us looked at a post-Soviet Russia with hope and wanted a better relationship. It is tragic that President Putin has chosen to act in this way, but we will not tolerate the threat to the life of British people and others on British soil from the Russian Government, nor will we tolerate such a flagrant breach of Russia’s international obligations.

As I set out on Monday, the United Kingdom does not stand alone in confronting Russian aggression. In the last 24 hours, I have spoken to President Trump, Chancellor Merkel and President Macron. We have agreed to co-operate closely in responding to this barbaric act and to co-ordinate our efforts to stand up for the rules-based international order that Russia seeks to undermine. I will also speak to other allies and partners in the coming days. I welcome the strong expressions of support from NATO and from partners across the European Union and beyond.

Later today in New York, the UN Security Council will hold open consultations where we will push for a robust international response. We have also notified the Organisation for the Prohibition of Chemical Weapons about Russia’s use of this nerve agent and we are working with the police to enable the OPCW to independently verify our analysis.

This was not just an act of attempted murder in Salisbury, nor just an act against the UK. It is an affront to the prohibition on the use of chemical weapons and an affront to the rules-based system on which we and our international partners depend. We will work with our allies and partners to confront such actions wherever they threaten our security, at home and abroad. I commend this Statement to the House”.

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[Lord Newby (LD)]

My Lords, I thank the noble Baroness the Leader of the House for repeating the Statement. Like her, I start by paying tribute to the professionalism and dedication of the emergency services, the medical staff and others in Salisbury who are dealing with what is clearly a more complicated business in cleaning up and in dealing with a rather larger number of people who have been affected by this incident than was at first apparent.

The conclusion that this incident represents an unlawful use of force by the Russian state against the United Kingdom is stark and unavoidable. On these Benches, we agree with the Government that, that being so, this act needs to be met with a full and robust response. The challenge is to identify practical and effective measures to constitute that response. The Government have come up with a number. The first proposal is to,

“expel 23 Russian diplomats who have been identified as undeclared intelligence officers”.

If they are indeed undeclared intelligence officers, this seems a fully justified measure.

Secondly, the Government plan to,

“develop proposals for new legislative powers to harden our defences against all forms of hostile state activity”.

While we will obviously wish to scrutinise any such measures very carefully, and for understandable reasons we do not have the details of them yet, we welcome the proposal to introduce the Magnitsky powers. That is something that we have been calling for for some time, so the Government will have our support in getting those powers on to the statute book. Is the noble Baroness able to tell us whether it is intended that those powers will be introduced by the Sanctions and Anti-Money Laundering Bill or whether they will be coming forward in free-standing legislation?

Thirdly, the Government plan to,

“increase checks on private flights, customs and freight”.

On a number of occasions, your Lordships’ House has debated the potentially damaging consequences of the lack of checks on private flights, so this is welcome. The concern is that this is potentially a very big commitment, because there is a very large number of small airports which are currently almost totally unregulated. We look forward to hearing from the Government how they expect to be able to do that effectively and what the manpower and cost implications will be.

The final strand of the Government’s proposals relates to working together internationally. Of course, that is very much to be welcomed. Within that strand, there are two principal international interlocutors, the first being NATO. Given the strength of the Prime Minister’s language, about the incident involving the unlawful use of force by the Russian state, have the Government given any consideration as to whether these events would justify invoking Article 5 of the North Atlantic Treaty? Finally, it is obviously the case, as the Government have recognised, that the attitude of our EU partners is very important. The Prime Minister has spoken to Chancellor Merkel and President Macron. I believe that earlier today President Tusk proposed adding to the agenda of next week’s European Council an item relating to this incident. Could the noble Baroness tell us whether the Government have yet accepted that invitation?

[Baroness Evans of Bowes Park]

My Lords, I thank the noble Lord and the noble Baroness for their comments, and I will endeavour to answer the questions that they have posed. The noble Baroness asked about continued engagement with Russia. As the Statement made clear, we have suspended high-level engagement, but of course we will continue to engage with Russia through international fora such as the UN, so there will be mechanisms by which we will maintain a dialogue.

Both the noble Baroness and the noble Lord were absolutely right to point out the need to work with international partners. As we made clear in the Statement, the issue will indeed be put on the agenda for next week’s EU Council, and we look forward to that discussion. We have been engaging with NATO at the highest levels, as the noble Baroness rightly said, and there is a meeting of the NATO Council tomorrow to discuss this. The noble Lord, Lord Newby, asked about Article 5. We do not consider this incident needs to be raised under NATO Article 5, given the engagement already under way. Later today, the UN Security Council will also hold initial consultations, and as the Statement made clear, we will be pushing it for a robust international response. But we were waiting, as indeed our international partners were, to see Russia’s response to the reasonable questions that were set out yesterday. Obviously now that we have had that response, we will start to work together with our partners to engage with them on where we go next.

The noble Baroness asked about previous incidents involving Russians. We of course take seriously any suggestion that a foreign state has engaged in murder on UK soil. Our immediate priority is the Salisbury investigation, but my right honourable friend the Home Secretary has replied to a letter sent by Yvette Cooper, saying that in the weeks to come she will want to satisfy herself that the allegations made about previous incidents in which investigations at the time did not discover evidence of foul play are nothing more than that. The police and MI5 agree and will assist in that endeavour. She will make the information public if anything further comes to light as a result of that.

The noble Baroness also asked about the OPCW. We will be working closely with it. We made a national statement to its executive council yesterday and will continue to talk to it about what further action it might take. We are of course working with the police to enable the OPCW to independently verify our analysis and share it with international partners.

Both the noble Lord and the noble Baroness mentioned the Magnitsky amendment. It is our intention that that will be brought forward within the sanctions Bill in the other place.

[The Countess of Mar (CB)]

My Lords, the noble Baroness the Leader of the House mentioned that the ongoing risk to public health is low, but I am concerned about the 38 people who reported to the hospital that they had been exposed last Sunday. I know that the noble Baroness has seen the report in the Times of an interview with Mr Vil Mirzayanov, who said that the chemical was 10 times more powerful than nerve gas, that the damage to the human body was “irreparable”—which is what I said to the noble Baroness on Monday—and that there is no cure. He said that symptoms might develop gradually, so the people who were cleared on Sunday might well develop symptoms later, and that anyone exposed should have permanent medical surveillance. Would the noble Baroness kindly ask the Secretary of State for Health to advise all GPs in the Salisbury area of the possibility that patients might come with severe health problems later on in life? I know that the symptoms can be very bizarre and am concerned that these patients are not set on the mental health route. Would she also give those who have reported—they can presumably be traced—some sort of identification or ensure some means of getting on to their medical notes the fact that they have been exposed, even in tiny amounts?

[Baroness Evans of Bowes Park]

We are certainly aware of a number of individuals who have presented at Salisbury District Hospital following the recent incident. Those individuals have been assessed and discharged, and have been advised that if they subsequently feel unwell they should re-present at hospital. Advice has been provided to GPs, acute hospitals and emergency departments across the NHS on the action that should be taken if individuals present following exposure to chemicals. There is some evidence that repeated exposure to trace levels of a contaminant over an extended period could cause harm, and that is why a lot of the focus of the current work is on preventing long-term exposure. However, I shall take the comments and suggestions made by the noble Countess back to the Department of Health.

[Lord Soley (Lab)]

My Lords, an attack with a weapon of mass destruction on British soil is profoundly serious and very dangerous, and the Government deserve our support throughout the House on their reaction to this. It is very clear that Putin is using this to boost his nationalist image of “Russia surrounded”, and we have to be aware of the propaganda value of that. We also have to be aware that he uses it to threaten and frighten anyone in Russia who is thinking of moving over to the West; this is really a terrorist-type attack on such people. The Chemical Weapons Act is profoundly important here. There seems little doubt that the production of banned chemical weapons is going on in Russia, and that needs to be addressed at every level possible. All our allies are important in that.

My other point is about Russia Today. I regard RT as a pretty sophisticated propaganda channel but it would be a mistake for us to take any action to ban it, for two reasons. First, if we did, it would give the Russians—or the Russian Government, to be more precise—a wonderful excuse to ban the BBC, which is one of our ways of talking to the Russian people. Secondly, it would make us look, and the Russian state would certainly use it in this way, as if we were against a free press.

[Baroness Evans of Bowes Park]

I thank the noble Lord for his very constructive comments, and I agree with them. The noble Lord sitting in front of him asked earlier in the week about Russia Today. As I said then, any revoking of a broadcasting licence is a matter for Ofcom, which obviously has stringent rules relating to ensuring that news is reported accurately and impartially. The noble Lord is right, however: Russia enjoys a near monopoly over Russian-language media across the post-Soviet space and uses it to spread disinformation. It is as important as ever that Russian speakers have a choice in the media that they consume and are able to access reliable and objective information. So, in addition to BBC Russia, we will be investing about £8 million next year in supporting public service and independent media operating in the Russian language.

[Lord Marlesford (Con)]

My Lords, I must wonder how this incredibly dangerous substance got into the UK. Given the Government’s conclusions overall, one cannot but speculate that the Russian Government may have abused the Vienna conventions on the immunity of diplomatic bags to bring it in. It is not the sort of thing that you bring in on an aeroplane and hope will not be detected at customs. Are there any provisions by which the immunities for Russian diplomatic bags could be suspended?

[Baroness Evans of Bowes Park]

Obviously this is an ongoing investigation, and I am afraid I cannot comment on those particular issues.

[Lord Paddick (LD)]

My Lords, we on these Benches, as my noble friend Lord Newby said, very much welcome the measures outlined in the Statement to ensure that those seeking to carry out hostile state activity cannot enter the UK—for example, by enhancing our efforts to monitor and track the intentions of those travelling to the UK, and increasing checks on private flights, customs and freight. Bearing in mind that the current Border Force budget is £51 million less than it was in 2012-13, when 23 million fewer passengers entered the UK than entered last year, can the Minister reassure the House that the Border Force budget will be increased to ensure that those measures can be effectively implemented?

[Baroness Evans of Bowes Park]

I can certainly assure the noble Lord that we adopt a rigorous approach to border security. Agencies work together at the border to manage a range of threats, including those posed by terrorism and serious and organised crime. The Border Force has a range of capabilities to detect, target and identify substances and materials that could cause harm. This includes Cyclamen, a joint Home Office and UK Border Force counterterrorism initiative to detect and intercept the illicit importation of radiological and nuclear material into the UK.

[Lord Alton of Liverpool (CB)]

My Lords, does not the use of Novichok in the attempted assassination of Sergei Skripal in Salisbury, which is reminiscent of the use of the VX nerve agent, used to assassinate Kim Jong-nam in Kuala Lumpur Airport, and the use of chemical weapons in the conflict in Syria, remind us that chemical and biological weapons are not a throwback to the Cold War? Should we not therefore be giving consideration now to the re-establishment of the Army’s disbanded chemical, biological, radiological and nuclear regiment?

[Baroness Evans of Bowes Park]

The noble Lord is absolutely right to highlight the seriousness of the situation facing us. We obviously comply fully with all our obligations under the Chemical Weapons Convention, and we will be working very closely with the Organisation for the Prohibition of Chemical Weapons to ensure that we try to prevent this happening again.

[Lord Browne of Ladyton (Lab)]

I thank the noble Baroness for repeating the Statement. I support entirely the Government’s robust response in these dreadful circumstances. On 29 September last year, President Putin declared that the Russian Federation had destroyed all its chemical stocks and chemical production facilities. It was congratulated by the then director-general of the OPCW on having done so. The logical conclusion that Russia has a production facility in contravention of international law exposes a serious flaw in the inspection and verification system of the international prohibition and nuclear weapons regime. This may not be an immediate priority, but soon will we not need to convene with our allies—at the very least a conference of experts—to look at how this international regime can be improved and, in particular, whether modern technology, of which there is much, can significantly improve our ability to inspect and verify countries that claim to be free of these dreadful weapons, when perhaps they are not?

[Baroness Evans of Bowes Park]

The noble Lord is absolutely right that the international community, including ourselves, welcomed the OPCW statement in September 2017 on the complete destruction of Russia’s declared chemical weapons stockpile. It is important to clarify that these were declared weapons of the Russian state, which is exactly why the Prime Minister asked for an explanation of how the Novichok nerve agent came to be used in Salisbury last week. The noble Lord is absolutely right, as I said in a previous answer, that we made a national statement to the OPCW executive council and we will be talking to it about further actions we can take in the future.

[Lord Cormack (Con)]

My Lords, what advice are we giving British visitors to Russia, particularly those who are of Russian birth but are now naturalised British subjects who are planning to go this weekend, which happens to be an election weekend? Can my noble friend pass on any advice? I have a specific reason for asking.

[Baroness Evans of Bowes Park]

There has been an update on travel advice. Due to heightened political tensions between the UK and Russia, travellers should be aware of the possibility of anti-British sentiment or harassment. If anyone is in Russia, or due to travel in the coming weeks, they are advised to remain vigilant, avoid any protests or demonstrations and avoid publicly commenting on political developments. While the British embassy in Moscow is not aware of any increased difficulties for British people travelling in Russia, they should of course follow the security and political situation closely, and keep up to date with further travel advice.

[Lord Campbell of Pittenweem (LD)]

My Lords, the Minister may be aware that there is a NATO summit scheduled for Brussels later this year. Might I suggest that it would be a relevant opportunity for enhancing and developing the levels of co-operation that are obviously essential in order to meet the new threat posed by events in Salisbury, and indeed perhaps for strengthening NATO’s strategic concept?

[Baroness Evans of Bowes Park]

Certainly, the Secretary-General has recognised this incident as of great concern to NATO. In fact, the NATO council published a statement today, saying:

“Allies expressed solidarity with the UK, offered their support in the conduct of the ongoing investigation, and called on Russia to address the UK’s questions including providing full and complete disclosure of the Novichok programme to the Organisation for the Prohibition of Chemical Weapons. Allies agreed that the attack was a clear breach of international norms and agreements”.

[Lord Kerr of Kinlochard (CB)]

It is clear that the House welcomes what was said in the Statement about defensive measures. I certainly do—I think they are appropriate and proportionate. I am, however, surprised that so little was said in the Statement about deterrent measures. The one mention of sanctions was that we shall take powers to be able in future to do more on sanctions. Why are we not saying anything about sanctions now?

I have two questions. First, given that the EU sanctions on Russia following the Crimea and then the Donbass were surprisingly effective, and given that the Government played a commendable role in ensuring that they were introduced and then maintained, are the Government contacting the EU about sanctions against Russia over this crime committed in an EU member state? Secondly, given that the sanctions that do least damage to the Russian people and have most effect on Kremlin thinking are those on particular individuals and on where they put their money, can the Minister tell us what the Government envisage on that front, on targeted sanctions against individuals known to be close to the Kremlin?

[Baroness Evans of Bowes Park]

As the noble Lord will know, the National Crime Agency will continue to bring all the capabilities of UK law enforcement to bear against serious criminal money. There is no place for these people or their money in our country. As I mentioned on Monday, we have now introduced unexplained wealth orders, which can be used to compel individuals to explain their sources of wealth; indeed, the first UWOs have already been issued by the court.

In relation to our conversations with our EU partners, this will, as I mentioned, be an agenda item at the EU Council next week and we will of course be talking to our EU partners. The Prime Minister has already spoken to Chancellor Merkel and President Macron, among others, to see what ways forward we can find with our EU partners to look at the precise areas that the noble Lord set out.

[Baroness Neville-Rolfe (Con)]

My Lords, Salisbury is my home town and we are still in shock. Can my noble friend tell me how Mr Skripal and his daughter—and indeed brave Sergeant Bailey—are doing and what their prospects of recovery are? Have there been any signs of anyone else getting ill, which would obviously concern us a lot?

[Baroness Evans of Bowes Park]

As I said in my answer to the noble Countess, we are aware of a number of individuals who have presented at Salisbury District Hospital following the recent incident, but they have been assessed and discharged. Advice has of course been provided to GPs, acute hospitals and emergency departments across the NHS. Mr Skripal and his daughter remain in an extremely serious condition; Detective-Sergeant Nick Bailey has been making some recovery and has been able to communicate, but all have obviously had their lives put in grave danger.

[Lord Selkirk of Douglas (Con)]

Will the Leader of the House accept that her Statement tonight is extremely welcome and does she agree that the use of an undeclared weapons programme in our country, seriously threatening the lives of our country men and women, remains most unacceptable? Does she also agree that, if there is further retaliation of a criminal nature against our country men and women, it will be taken very seriously indeed, and that the purpose of the Government will be to protect the lives of our country men and women, as they have in the past?

[Baroness Evans of Bowes Park]

My noble friend is absolutely right: ensuring the safety of our citizens is one of the primary functions and roles of the Government. We believe that what has been presented today is a robust but proportionate diplomatic response to this unlawful use of force against the UK by the Russian Federation. There are further measures that we stand ready to deploy at any time should we face further Russian provocation.

[Baroness Masham of Ilton (CB)]

My Lords, have extra specialised nurses been drafted into Salisbury District Hospital, as the victims will need very careful nursing 24 hours a day?

[Baroness Evans of Bowes Park]

I am not sure. I would have to get back to the noble Baroness as to whether additional nurses have been brought in to work in Salisbury District Hospital. Certainly advice has been provided to GPs, acute hospitals and emergency departments, and all individuals who have been assessed have been discharged.

[Lord Gadhia (Non-Afl)]

My Lords, is the Minister aware that half of Britain’s imports of liquefied natural gas so far this year have come from Russia? Does she agree that we should look closely at our energy security? In asking this question I declare my interest as a director of an energy company.

--- Later in debate ---

[Baroness Evans of Bowes Park]

I thank my noble friend, and I am sure this is something that is on the minds of my colleagues.

[Lord Adonis (Lab)]

My Lords, has the Leader of the House seen the statement that the Russian embassy has put out in response to the Prime Minister’s Statement this afternoon, and the statement by the Russian Ministry of Foreign Affairs? It says:

“Theresa May in Parliament on measures to ‘punish’ Russia constitutes an unprecedented, flagrant provocation that undermines the foundations of normal dialogue between our countries”.


The embassy has added, for good measure:

“We believe it is absolutely unacceptable and unworthy of the British Government to seek to further seriously aggravate relations in pursuit of its unseemly political ends”.


Do those two statements not completely sum up the attitude of the Russian Government, who are in flagrant defiance, so far as one can see, of international law and good bilateral practice—with not a word of regret or apology for the events that have taken place on the streets of Salisbury, which amount to attempted murder by one state against the citizens of another state? The noble Baroness says that we have suspended high-level contacts with the Russian Government. Can she say why the Russian ambassador has not been asked to leave the country in the light of these statements put out in his name by the Russian embassy?

[Baroness Evans of Bowes Park]

I entirely agree with the sentiments expressed by the noble Lord. As I said in a previous answer, we believe that this presents a robust and proportionate diplomatic response to the unlawful use of force against the UK by the Russian Federation. We thought it right to give the Russian Federation the chance to answer some significant questions that we put to them. It has failed to do so: therefore we have taken action—and we stand ready to take further action if that is proved to be necessary.